Majority of new PCs ship without Windows Vista, Gates (unintentionally) reveals

[Abe]

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/67663,majority-of-new-pcs-ship-without-windows-vista-gates-unintentionally-reveals.aspx


Gates, in Las Vegas Sunday, boasted that Microsoft has sold more than 100 million copies of Windows Vista since the OS launched last January.

While the number at first sounds impressive, it in fact indicates that the company's once dominant grip on the OS market is loosening. Based on Gates' statement, Windows Vista was aboard just 39% of the PC's that shipped in 2007.

[The_Librarian]

Not surprised.

The wheel have come full circle.

[Tux]

For now, I'll just stick to XP/Opensuse10.3
Vista can come and suck my sig :D

[Glordit]

XP SP3 for Me!

[The_Techie]

I'm also waiting for XP Service Pack 3...

[killadoob]

vista rocks :)

[The_Techie]

Until my FPS is about the same in Vista as it is in XP, I'll stick to XP ;)

[killadoob]

strange beanie

all my games run sweet under vista

not much different at all :), im using 64 bit vista i found that 32 bit was slow with games but maybe they have fixed it now

[The_Techie]

strange beanie

all my games run sweet under vista

not much different at all :), im using 64 bit vista i found that 32 bit was slow with games but maybe they have fixed it now

I've tried 32-bit and 64-bit... At best it was only a 20FPS decrease, at worst more than 100FPS :eek:

[killadoob]

yea beanie then your doing something wrong man

all my buddies use vista for gaming and they have 0 problems

yea stick to xp then because you have something seriously wrong going on then

[The_Techie]

yea beanie then your doing something wrong man

Please tell me what I'm doing wrong ;)

[killadoob]

dude i dunno but you must be doing something wrong because vista 64 bit runs games as well xp or maybe your mobo does not have great vista drivers

could be drivers could be alot of things

loosing 100 frames is crazy, the game musta run like kuk hey

[Dange--Russ]

Loaded Vista on my laptop. going to put XP pro on again. made everything slow, even battery life got worse somehow.

[killadoob]

what kinda laptop is it?

[The_Techie]

dude i dunno but you must be doing something wrong because vista 64 bit runs games as well xp or maybe your mobo does not have great vista drivers

could be drivers could be alot of things

loosing 100 frames is crazy, the game musta run like kuk hey

I've tried just about every possible Vista driver for my graphics card and my motherboard (even on my other PCs with different hardware configurations) and the result is always the same. I'd like to think I'm capable of installing Windows Vista and its drivers properly ;)

[killadoob]

im sure you are, but there must be a problem with drivers if your loosing 100 or even 20 frames

there is a big problem

what games are loosing the frames?

it might be because you only have 2 gig memory and its using your page file for more memory

i know crysis uses over 2.3 gig memory on my pc bf 2 just under 2 gig thats why i bought another 2 gig so it does not use my page file

[The_Techie]

im sure you are, but there must be a problem with drivers if your loosing 100 or even 20 frames

there is a big problem

what games are loosing the frames?

it might be because you only have 2 gig memory and its using your page file for more memory

i know crysis uses over 2.3 gig memory on my pc bf 2 just under 2 gig thats why i bought another 2 gig so it does not use my page file

Every single game (even Rugby08) so the memory can't be blamed ;)

If it was a single driver I would be inclined to agree, but not different drivers spanning different series (6,7 and 8-series)...

[chiskop]

I find it hard to believe that only 39% new computers have Vista on them - have you tried to buy a new computer without it?

[killadoob]

ya well then i guess its xp for you till your sort out what the problem could be :)

if its every game, it means there is problem somewhere

i mean if one game cannot run well then i dunno hey

i installed 64 bit and everything just ran fine but i suppose having 4 gig memory there would not be many problems

chiskop most laptops come with it but you still get plenty that dont

also most desktops are done by ppl who put them together and thus choose xp over vista

its only been a year since vista was released, it took xp a while to get going as well

when microsoft stop selling xp thats when vista will excel because consumers will have no choice

[The_Techie]

ya well then i guess its xp for you till your sort out what the problem could be :)

if its every game, it means there is problem somewhere

i mean if one game cannot run well then i dunno hey

i installed 64 bit and everything just ran fine but i suppose having 4 gig memory there would not be many problems

Happened on one of my other machines that has 4GB of DDR2-667 RAM as well...

I'll stick to Windows XP until they get Windows Vista sorted out... :)

[chiskop]

chiskop most laptops come with it but you still get plenty that dont

also most desktops are by ppl who put them together and thus choose xp over vista


When I bought my laptop there was only one model that Incredible offered with anything other than Vista - and that had 256 Mb RAM :o. That was in July last year.

[killadoob]

i dunno im checking the axiz pricelist and there are plenty

high end low end

granted not as many as vista but still quite a few

[Abe]

yea stick to xp then because you have something seriously wrong going on then

Actually, Vista was recently clocked at about 15% slower then XP for day to day use. Probably the overhead because of Aero but it's still slower. Should not be an issue as hardware is getting faster all of the time but just good to know.

[Abe]

I find it hard to believe that only 39% new computers have Vista on them - have you tried to buy a new computer without it?

The majority of new computers are sold to businesses which hate change.

[Dange--Russ]

what kinda laptop is it?

Fujitsu Siemens Amilo

[Abe]

its only been a year since vista was released, it took xp a while to get going as well

XP did 69% during its first year according to the article.


when microsoft stop selling xp thats when vista will excel because consumers will have no choice

Maybe in terms of numbers but not in reality as the businesses will still use XP under Vista business license that allows XP use.

[chiskop]

when microsoft stop selling xp thats when vista will excel because consumers will have no choice

Pretty sad that you have to look forward to the day customers have even less of a choice than they do now. :o

[ghoti]

Just bought this laptop for a client: http://www.laptopdirect.co.za/laptop_specifications.php?laptop=16564

Will be formatting it and installing XP. It sucks you have to pay for an unwanted OS.

[Abe]

Will be formatting it and installing XP. It sucks you have to pay for an unwanted OS.

At least you don't have to pay extra for XP. That would be really lousy.

[killadoob]

nobody is looking forward to it but its going to happen

for me i dont care who uses what but microsoft did not invest 6 billion to sell 100 million copies

they invested 6 billion to sell 500 to a billion copies if not more

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2006-11-29-vista-rollout_x.htm

Microsoft officials predict Vista will be accepted faster than any other Windows OS. Microsoft expects to sell 200 million copies to businesses and consumers worldwide in its first two years. Windows XP, by comparison, sold 120 million copies in its first 24 months, market researcher IDC says.

so xp sold 120 millions copies in its first 2 years vista is at 100 million in its first year so another year should see vista go well over 200 million mark

vista is only slower than xp when its not given enough hardware to drive it

running a quadcore or dualcore with 3-4 gigs memory i doubt its slower than xp

2 gig on vista is like 1 gig on xp

also vista runs alot faster when aero is disabled, but if you have a decent vga card and alot of memory running vista with aero on is a breeze

[Ivan...]

Think part of the issue is the fact that there are 535984165165 different versions of Vista...2 or 3 is okay..but really, its like having to chose between cranberry aple and lime juice or cranberry, apple and lemon juice...
Please Note: cranberry, apple and lime - sugar free version doesn't support people with over 8KG of body fat...

[Abe]

Microsoft officials predict Vista will be accepted faster than any other Windows OS. Microsoft expects to sell 200 million copies to businesses and consumers worldwide in its first two years. Windows XP, by comparison, sold 120 million copies in its first 24 months, market researcher IDC says.

so xp sold 120 millions copies in its first 2 years vista is at 100 million in its first year so another year should see vista go well over 200 million mark

This is semantics. The PC market has doubled since XP was released so the equivilent XP sales in todays market is 240 million.


running a quadcore or dualcore with 3-4 gigs memory i doubt its slower than xp

It has to be. There is substantially more code that is running in Vista as opposed to XP. Also, there is some driver functionality that is now running in the slower user mode that was previously running in the faster kernal mode. Vista will be slower then XP when running on the same hardware whether it's 2GB or 4GB of RAM etc. What would probably be a better comparison would be to compare XP on hardware in the year it was released to Vista on todays hardware.

[ghoti]

At least you don't have to pay extra for XP. That would be really lousy.

Its better and cheaper than Vista for our requirements.

[killadoob]

no abe i disagree about that top remark

ppl dont like change until they are forced by microsoft into changing by taking OS's off the market, once they do this their sales just go mad because ppl dont have a choice

vista is not slower than xp if given the needed hardware :)

[Abe]

Its better and cheaper than Vista for our requirements.

Agreed, we have not supplied Vista to one of our clients yet. It just does not make sense for them. There is still a lot of software that does not work on Vista and businesses can't just stop using it because they feel like it.

Whats really rotten is that we have to buy a Vista installation pack at about R1500 before we sell Vista just because the DSP license no longer come with media.

[Abe]

ppl dont like change until they are forced by microsoft into changing by taking OS's off the market, once they do this their sales just go mad because ppl dont have a choice

That will not happen soon. While MS will stop selling XP this year, people will still install it because they don't have a choice. There is a lot of business software that does not work on Vista. They may be badly written applications but they will still not work.


vista is not slower than xp if given the needed hardware :)

On the same hardware it is. I have posted a link here before where benchmarking was done with MS Office on Vista and XP. Vista was about 70% slower. SP1 makes Vista about 1% faster where XP SP3 gives XP almost a 10% boost.

[killadoob]

yea but what system where they using the same one as xp?

vista is a memory hog

1 gig does not cut it in vista

vista will never become xp until applications start moving over to vista and micrsoft cannot stop selling xp due to all the applications not working

if microsoft stop selling xp, is it still piracy if you load pc's with a product that is no longer supported or available?

[Ivan...]

yea but what system where they using the same one as xp?

vista is a memory hog

1 gig does not cut it in vista

vista will never become xp until applications start moving over to vista and micrsoft cannot stop selling xp due to all the applications not working

if microsoft stop selling xp, is it still piracy if you load pc's with a product that is no longer supported or available?
You should add driver support, not all companies/manufacturers have released Vista drivers...and not all the manufacturers who have released Vista drivers have ones that actually work

[killadoob]

ivan i think the driver issue is pretty much sorted

there are drivers for just about every piece of hardware now unless its like 3-5 years old

i think it would be very rare that you find a driver that does not work

[Abe]

yea but what system where they using the same one as xp?

Yes


vista is a memory hog

1 gig does not cut it in vista

The tests were done with both 1GB and 2GB. Here is another test done by Toms http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/page4.html


vista will never become xp until applications start moving over to vista and micrsoft cannot stop selling xp due to all the applications not working

if microsoft stop selling xp, is it still piracy if you load pc's with a product that is no longer supported or available?

MS have a clause in the Vista Business licenses upwards that lets you run XP in place of Vista so even if they stop selling XP, people will still be able to install it if they buy Vista Business +.

[Abe]

ivan i think the driver issue is pretty much sorted

Not totally, there are a number of companies (eg Lexmark) that did not release drivers for some of their hardware and they don't intend to. People with these older printers etc just have to throw them away.

[killadoob]

yea old hardware, but 99% of newish hardware has working vista drivers

[The_Techie]

yea old hardware, but 99% of newish hardware has working vista drivers

It doesn't have drivers for my sound card (el cheapo) :D

[stoke]

License agreement is a License agreement doobi.

Anywayz .. this article is extremely bais .. how many PC's shipped OS'less before the Vista phenomenon?
Huhuhuhu?

[killadoob]

el cheapo sound card beanie

surely your mobo has much better than an el cheapo sound card?

why would someone who owns a striker buy an el cheapo soundcard?

that article abe is from january 29th when vista first came out, lets be honest vista has come along way since it release

im gonna look for a more up-to-date article

all the ones i found are testing vista and xp with same amount of memory which is rather pointless

vista 3 gigs or more to run as well as xp with 2 gigs

[The_Techie]

el cheapo sound card beanie

surely your mobo has much better than an el cheapo sound card?

why would someone who owns a striker buy an el cheapo soundcard?

My el cheapo has better sound quality than the audio riser card provided with the Striker Extreme :p

/me is contemplating buying an X-Fi sound card...

[killadoob]

what el cheapo is it, there must be drivers for unless its like 3 or more years old :)

gimme the make and model and i will find you vista drivers :)

[The_Techie]

what el cheapo is it, there must be drivers for unless its like 3 or more years old :)

gimme the make and model and i will find you vista drivers :)

Creative SBLive! 5.1. No need to find drivers, by the time I switch over to Windows Vista I won't have it any more ;)

[Ivan...]

by the time I switch over to Windows Vista
/waits patiently fro Beanie to turn into a Vista fanboi just like me:D

[The_Techie]

/waits patiently fro Beanie to turn into a Vista fanboi just like me:D

You'll have to wait until they sort out these FPS drops :D

[Ivan...]

You'll have to wait until they sort out these FPS drops :D
Didn't you experience those drops before you upgraded?

[The_Techie]

Didn't you experience those drops before you upgraded?

Yep, and after the upgrade as well...

[Ivan...]

Yep, and after the upgrade as well...
Steve Balmer apologises. Wait for SP1 then...

[The_Techie]

Steve Balmer apologises. Wait for SP1 then...

I'll consider it after SP1, but if the FPS drops still occur I'll stick to XP :p

[Abe]

that article abe is from january 29th when vista first came out, lets be honest vista has come along way since it release

The XP/Office -> Vista/Office tests which put Vista at 80% slower were done a couple of months back

http://www.betanews.com/article/XP_SP3_outperforms_Vista_SP1_but_less_when_running _same_Office_version/1196208954


all the ones i found are testing vista and xp with same amount of memory which is rather pointless

vista 3 gigs or more to run as well as xp with 2 gigs[/

No, that is the point. You have to compare both OS's with the same specs otherwise someone could just say that Vista needs a quad core to run as well as XP with a dual core.

At the end of the day, XP is faster on the same hardware as Vista. You might be happy with your Vista speed if your machine is fast enough but that does not change the statement. There are undoubtably reasons for people to upgrade to Vista and reasons not to but performance is not one of them. Running Vista on your existing hardware will be slower then your XP was on the same hardware. For me, development in Vista is far more painful then development in XP so it's just not worth my while.

[killadoob]

ok abe what about windows 2000 and windows 98 hardware

would windows xp not have run slower on 98 and 2000 hardware

its exactly the same

vista is new you cannot test on the same platform u test xp, that just does not make sense

vista does not need a quadcore, it does need a core 2 though and atleast 3 gig ram to run up to scratch

[dablakmark8]

vista is #$##$ thats why i still have it

[The_Techie]

I've decided to give Windows Vista another shot once SP1 has been released :)

[stefan9]

Seems Killadoob and me are still the only ones who like Vista.:)

Vista is fine and has been for months for me. Gaming is for most games on par no noticeable difference at all if you are running a high end machine.

99% of all my software I use work. the only ones which don't work is coretemp and acquamark. In coretemp case it's them being cheap rather than it not working entirely. All my Games except games that are more than 3 years old work, again these are rare only ones being sacred and ice wind dale. All my other old games like the baldur's gate series,planescape torment work fine.

On that so called test which was conducted it was based on office applications and also take into account they used office 2003. They didn't use the latest product. It's hardly a true reflections.

Also sp1 fixes all of the slight issue I had. It speeds up the file transfer up to xp speeds.

There is no way I would ever go back to xp. I have been running vista since it got released in February. I have run both x86 and x64.

[XCalibre]

I bought a new laptop about a week ago with Vista Home Premium and it's been a very pleasant experience so far. All the programs I have installed so far runs great. Obviously XP will run even faster but that's because it's not as demanding as Vista. Vista is like the game Crysis, to run it at max resolution you need a good system.

If you want the extra features and looks Vista provides get a good compatible system. Vista will never be as fast as XP on the same hardware, it's like installig Windows 98 on your current setup. Win 98 will be faster then XP, is it better? NO.