Eskom and the World Cup

[daveza]

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20080123070006375C725273




Eskom makes back-up plans for World Cup

By Colleen Dardagan

Imported electricity, a wind farm and privately owned generators are all part of Eskom's plan to keep the lights on during the 2010 World Cup.

Johnny Dladla, head of Eskom's 2010 task team, told municipal and industry representatives at a meeting held in Johannesburg earlier this week that 2 000 more megawatts of electricity were required for the event.

"We are looking to the Southern African Development Community countries on the integrated grid - we hope to import 700MW from this source. Power from the new wind station in the Western Cape will be used to make up the shortfall. We are also looking at the feasibility of using business-owned generators to power street lights to lighten the demand at peak periods."

'We have to be concerned because progress is being hampered'
Dladla confirmed that load shedding would still be a way of life come 2010.

"We will not have finished our upgrades, so we are looking at alternative ways to ensure a constant supply of electricity during the event. It also needs to be remembered that the tournament is taking place during winter - but most of the games are being played in the evening, which is during off-peak hours.

"However, we are aware that fans will want to party afterwards, so there will be an extended demand. Once we have a finalised tournament schedule from Fifa, we will be able to look at the demand more closely."

Spokesperson for 2010 projects in Cape Town, Pieter Cronje, said that the city was not concerned about electricity shortages during the event but, rather, how load shedding would affect deadlines in the lead up to the event.

"Fifa requires each stadium to have ample back-up power during the World Cup," said Cronje. "Our concern is that load shedding must be minimised during the development phase to ensure critical deadlines are met. While there has been no direct affect on construction, one of our suppliers was unable to supply cast seating on time because of power cuts."

Co-ordinator for 2010 projects in Nelspruit, Differ Mogale, said the Mbombela Stadium construction site had suffered power cuts for the whole of last week.

"We have to be concerned because progress is being hampered. We have been without power almost every day since last week - there is nothing we can do, it has to be dealt with nationally and at government level," said Mogale.

Head of strategic planning at the eThekwini Municipality, Julie-May Ellingson, said that host cities should be more involved with load shedding decision-making processes.

"Eskom gave us a broad presentation on its plans last year, but we are yet to be briefed on the detail," she said. "It's not only the power supply to the stadium we are concerned about, but the whole value chain. The knock-on effect is worrying. Besides the stadium, we have a number of projects on the go that are critical to Durban's ability to host a successful World Cup."

Ellingson called for an urgent meeting with Eskom.

"We have raised the issue with both Eskom and the 2010 local organising committee, but it is critical to get together and deal with the matter proactively. We believe all the host cities should be consulted collectively. Particular attention should be given to communication with our technical staff - they are being kept in the dark," she said.

Group Five spokesperson Craig Jessop said load shedding had not affected progress at Durban's R2,6-million Moses Mabhida Stadium.

"However, we are concerned and have taken proactive steps to ensure our power supply is maintained through the use of generators - which is far more costly than electricity. We are also engaging with our suppliers and subcontractors about the affect load shedding may have on them and how we can find solutions to any problems that may arise."

Natal Portland Cement's Pieter Strauss - the main supplier of cement for Durban's stadium - said his concern was not only about meeting the demand on 2010 projects, but for all their customers. "Cement production is totally reliant on electricity and generators cannot be used to power our plants. We are already in consultation with Eskom because while demand is low at the moment and we are comfortably meeting our orders, we are worried about what will happen in a month's time when demand starts to pick up."

Barbara Jensen, spokesperson for the Gautrain construction - another project on deadline for the World Cup - said the issue of load shedding needed more discussion.

"We have generators on all our 43 construction sites and are pulling electricity from 19 substations, which means work hasn't come to a standstill, but it has affected progress.

"Our main concern is the tunnel-boring machine making its way underground from Rosebank towards Park Station - it needs a constant supply of electricity and it uses a lot of power. So we are in discussion with Eskom to try and resolve the matter," she said.

Eskom's Johnny Dladla said they were yet to announce any plans to assist key 2010 projects.

"We will work with industry and municipalities to solve the problems. We are looking at ways of sorting out the short-term problems," he said.





According to reports the crisis is going to get worse, and additional demand from new business, housing developments, industry is going to exacerbate the shortage. There is apparently no short term solution so it is possible that by 2010 load shedding could be much worse.

I am a football supporter and supported the bid, and the expense.

In Cape Town, there is no new transport infrastructure that I can see - the cup is only 2 years away. There is no plan to reduce crime. There is insufficient accommodation...

Is it not time to seriously consider whether we can without embarrassment, host the greatest spectacle on earth ?

[Robin Hood]

Yeah...The stadium will have lights while the rest of the country is in darkness...

[gdiza]

daveza; I agree with you.

I think that if we are left to host the 2010, we are seriously gonna mess it up but having said that, we as Capetownians are used to waking up at the last minute and working our m0er off to get something done.

So, wouldn't surprise me if that in 2009 going 2010 if we start to see alot of things happening to just get through the world cup and then again, straight after, going back to hell again.

[daveza]

Yes we are more laid back than most - but the cup is not only in Cape Town, and a proper public transport system and supporting infrastructure is impossible to achieve in a year.

The Gautrain system is taking what, 4 years ?

First we have to have a commitee, then a debate, then approval for finance, then another commitee, then tenders followed by another commitee to approve the plans - which will be in excess of what the finance commitee discussed so................. then we have workers striking and load shedding so the commitees get postponed........

Actually, perhaps we should just cancel the cup today !

If I had an iota of proof that we could actually pull off all that is required I would be very happy - but if it looks like @#$% and smells like @#$% it's normally a pile of @#$%.

[Decotey]

Imagine all these famous international soccer stars chilling at their hotels with the power on and off. Or doing some evening practice and suddenly no lights. They not use to that. They going to have only nice things to say about our country.

[CathJ]

I appreciate that the world cup is a money spinner.

But the fact that they're willing to do all that during the world cup, to help the tourists, but won't do anything here and now to support the people who actually live and pay taxes, is depressing.

[The Cosmos]

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20080123070006375C725273



According to reports the crisis is going to get worse, and additional demand from new business, housing developments, industry is going to exacerbate the shortage. There is apparently no short term solution so it is possible that by 2010 load shedding could be much worse.

I am a football supporter and supported the bid, and the expense.

In Cape Town, there is no new transport infrastructure that I can see - the cup is only 2 years away. There is no plan to reduce crime. There is insufficient accommodation...

Is it not time to seriously consider whether we can without embarrassment, host the greatest spectacle on earth ?

WTF ? Where are the priorities ? Get it fixed now, pronto, then you won't have that problem in 2010. :mad::mad::mad:

[capetownguy]

insufficient accommodation in Cape Town?
MATCH, FIFA's accommodation team have already found all the rooms to meet FIFA requirements in Cape Town, thanks to 7000 beds in Stellenbosch. Thats apart from the 9 new hotels and cruise ships which will move into the harbour.

Cape Town is quite busy with behind the scenes planning on its transport infrastructure with both local and international experts. The city's 2010 transport team have been to South America thrice now to learn from Bogota, and to order the busses for the inner city transport system. Apart from the R1 billion + upgrade to the airport and an additional 6 billion in public transport spending pre 2010.

As before, its very easy say nothing is being done especially when you choose to be ignorant. Supppose being ignorant is the easy route.

Eskom and the government have messed up with regards to electricity supply, but it doesn't mean that host cities have been preparing behind the scenes and in 2008 implementing these plans.

If anybody was really interested to see what is being planned and construction taking place visit www.skyscrapercity.com. On the other hand, being ignorant might just be less of an effort, which seems to be the trend on these forums.

[daveza]

Opinons are like a@#holes - everyone has one, including me.

To use another phrase, the proof of the pudding is in the eating - so time will tell.

Skyscraper - interesting thanks.

There is a difference between being ignorant, and informed but skeptical. The talk is talked, but will the walk be walked ?

Yes, it's nice to upgrade the airport - so the international visitors can see the squatter camps sooner after their arrival. And if they arrive in the morning they will have ample time to view them from the middle of rush hour, while keeping one eye on the taxis as they pass the sewage stink near Athlone - another of Cape Towns cultural exhibits.

Buses ?! There is no space on the roads for buses, cars, even bicycles ! An hour and more from Bellville to the CBD ?
We need roads.
We need the *****ic half flyover to be completed.
We need a proper rail system - clean, safe, on-time, reliable. It must go to the southern suburbs, northern suburbs, to the completely railless west coast - and a train service to the stadium ! Or is there a cunning plan to beam all supporters from the unsafe, filthy Cap Town station directly to Green Point ?
We need traffic lights that work 24/7.
We need a visible traffic force - not just visible under a bridge with a speed trap.

7000 beds in Stellenbosch ? Traffic in and out of Stellenbosch is a nightmare already - one little bridge on the stadium side is the main route ! There is no viable train service to Stellenbosch.


If there are major plans there is very little time left - and major road construction takes longer than the time avalable.

Please, I would love to be proved wrong. I've lived in Cape Town for close on 50 years and I've heard a lot of talk and seen little action.

Ignorance is bliss - but I don't feel very blissful.

[The_Librarian]

Yeah...The stadium will have lights while the rest of the country is in darkness...

Heh, think that'll be also the case :(

[McSack]

insufficient accommodation in Cape Town?
MATCH, FIFA's accommodation team have already found all the rooms to meet FIFA requirements in Cape Town, thanks to 7000 beds in Stellenbosch. .

Sheesh!!! when last did you try get from Stellies to Greenpoint on public transport mate ???

The traffic/transport nightmare that is the Argus has been getting steadily worse over the last 7 years I've participated. If a yearly event that's been going for decades and attracts probably half the number of people that the once off WC is expecting causes such a fsk-up, howcome all of a sudden things are going to get so much better in 2 years?

[Skinner]

insufficient accommodation in Cape Town?
MATCH, FIFA's accommodation team have already found all the rooms to meet FIFA requirements in Cape Town, thanks to 7000 beds in Stellenbosch. Thats apart from the 9 new hotels and cruise ships which will move into the harbour.

Cape Town is quite busy with behind the scenes planning on its transport infrastructure with both local and international experts. The city's 2010 transport team have been to South America thrice now to learn from Bogota, and to order the busses for the inner city transport system. Apart from the R1 billion + upgrade to the airport and an additional 6 billion in public transport spending pre 2010.
capetownguy, these are not enough.

What about the traffic? Do you really think the cars on the roads will be less because there will be more buses? The people (e.g. commuters) using cars will keep using them. Even if most tourists use the buses, there will be many that use cars too. So the traffic problem gets worse...

Also remember it is rainy and stormy season in CPT, so less people will walk and the traffic will be even WORSE. Wet roads... fender benders... wind... storm... match starting in 30 minutes... imagine the chaos. Mr German tourist very very angry.

And 7000 beds in Stellenbosch is also not enough.

[Moederloos]

I appreciate that the world cup is a money spinner.

But the fact that they're willing to do all that during the world cup, to help the tourists, but won't do anything here and now to support the people who actually live and pay taxes, is depressing.

QFT.


Sheesh!!! when last did you try get from Stellies to Greenpoint on public transport mate ???

I did it once in 1991. Took me like 2-3 hours, including a bit of hitching.
I can only imagine what it must be like now.

[StrongTurd]

Group Five spokesperson Craig Jessop said load shedding had not affected progress at Durban's R2,6-million Moses Mabhida Stadium.

2.6 Mil? That's not too bad. I stay in a decidedly middle-class area and my house is worth a good portion of 2.6 mil. :D

[Moederloos]

2.6 Mil? That's not too bad. I stay in a decidedly middle-class area and my house is worth a good portion of 2.6 mil. :D

Thats its value in 2011 after it gets stripped and squatted in.

[StrongTurd]

Thats its value in 2011 after it gets stripped and squatted in.
LMAO!

[Skinner]

Thats its value in 2011 after it gets stripped and squatted in.

For the stadia that won't be used anymore afterwards, yes. Those that will still be used will suffer a less severe fate.

[Moederloos]

For the stadia that won't be used anymore afterwards, yes. Those that will still be used will suffer a less severe fate.

Unless they use it for soccer matches, and the away team arrives late...

[nobasooto]

SA does not have the infrastructure to host 2010. It should have never been awarded to this country.

[Moederloos]

SA does not have the infrastructure to host 2010. It should have never been awarded to this country.

We are going to build it! :rolleyes::cool:
Yeah, and pigs will fly.

[Skinner]

SA does not have the infrastructure to host 2010. It should have never been awarded to this country.

SA is spending billions to upgrade the infrastructure. Just ask Capetownguy how much. Unfortunately, he is not able to specify what exactly is being done to upgrade the infrastructure, other than the import of buses from South America :o

[Moederloos]

SA is spending billions to upgrade the infrastructure. Just ask Capetownguy how much. Unfortunately, he is not able to specify what exactly is being done to upgrade the infrastructure, other than the import of buses from South America :o

They are spending billions upgrading their offshore portfolios.

[schitz011]

This so called government needs to get it's head out of it's arse and relalize the problem is here and now.

Quite frankly I don't a toss if the stadiums get built or not. Rather than trying to behave like a first world country and have football tournaments, surely the welfare of the citizens footing the bill should be of more concern?

The sooner this bunch of self serving arrogant bunch of miscreant arseholes that calls itself the government realize that there are far more pressing matters than having a world cup, such as supplying BASIC ultilites, the sooner this country will pull itself back from the brink of being one more in the long list of African failures.

But no, just to prove that Africa can host a world cup and for our 'illustrious' to have a chance to be collectively jerked off by other african leaders WE have to suffer.

If scrapping the world cup meant we could alleviate part of this BS with Eskom then I wouldn't give it a moments thought.

Yes, I am aware that it's not just the fault of preparations that we find ourselves in a Dickensian utopia, but it can't be helping the situation either..

The sooner the ANC face up to the fact that squatting in the bush for 20 odd years planning the downfall of the white man is NOT sufficient education for running the country and admit they have no clue on whats going on and dissapear up their own arseholes, then the sooner all of us can get back to our lives and fix this mess they have built in the last 14 years.

[Moederloos]

I always appreciate a well written and funny post.
Thanks schitz011.

[schitz011]

NP.

The time has come to stop beating around the bush and call a spade a spade.

[Obaht]

As before, its very easy say nothing is being done especially when you choose to be ignorant. Supppose being ignorant is the easy route.

Eskom and the government have messed up with regards to electricity supply, but it doesn't mean that host cities have been preparing behind the scenes and in 2008 implementing these plans.

If anybody was really interested to see what is being planned and construction taking place visit www.skyscrapercity.com. On the other hand, being ignorant might just be less of an effort, which seems to be the trend on these forums.

Wait until Koeberg "goes down for scheduled maintenance".

Perhaps you are the ignorant one.

[Rozier]

What is the difference beteen the Titanic and the New South Africa?

Ans: When the Titanic went down, the lights were on!

[Skinner]

What is the SIMILARITY between the Titanic and the New South Africa?

Answer: when SA goes down, the government will accuse the white masses!

[LancelotSA]

insufficient accommodation in Cape Town?
MATCH, FIFA's accommodation team have already found all the rooms to meet FIFA requirements in Cape Town, thanks to 7000 beds in Stellenbosch. Thats apart from the 9 new hotels and cruise ships which will move into the harbour.

Cape Town is quite busy with behind the scenes planning on its transport infrastructure with both local and international experts. The city's 2010 transport team have been to South America thrice now to learn from Bogota, and to order the busses for the inner city transport system. Apart from the R1 billion + upgrade to the airport and an additional 6 billion in public transport spending pre 2010.

As before, its very easy say nothing is being done especially when you choose to be ignorant. Supppose being ignorant is the easy route.

Eskom and the government have messed up with regards to electricity supply, but it doesn't mean that host cities have been preparing behind the scenes and in 2008 implementing these plans.

If anybody was really interested to see what is being planned and construction taking place visit www.skyscrapercity.com. On the other hand, being ignorant might just be less of an effort, which seems to be the trend on these forums.

I'm with you.... Pessimism is a disease and it is spreading fast!

[sleeper]

Hehheheh, nice one Skinner!

[Skinner]

I'm with you.... Pessimism is a disease and it is spreading fast!

Remaining yaysayers on forum:
- Tibby
- capetownguy
- LancelotSA

[daveza]

Fair enough.

Let's be positive.

I am positive there are serious problems which I see no evidence of a plan to solve them.

And I'm optimistic that 30 billion people are going to be getting their knowledge of Cape Town through a TV screen - it could be 30 billion who are attracted by what they see and hear or it could be 30 billion who write us off their holiday lists.

That's quite a gamble.

[Moederloos]

I am positive that we are not only up a creek without a paddle, but the creek is also full of sewage.

[LancelotSA]

Remaining yaysayers on forum:
- Tibby
- capetownguy
- LancelotSA

Aha, so we have a definate movement to try and get rid of everyone who happens to have a different mentality to the rest of the herd on here?

"If they don't agree with is, get rid of them!"

Well that is what I am reading into your post....



daveza, I am just totally stoked that those 30 billion people are going to be able to view South Africa on their tv screens, and millions others will form their own opinions in person, and they will not be getting their impressions on South Africa from the likes of you guys!

[Moederloos]

Aha, so we have a definate movement to try and get rid of everyone who happens to have a different mentality to the rest of the herd on here?

"If they don't agree with is, get rid of them!"

Well that is what I am reading into your post....


Well, you would.
I read it as "the yaysayers have slowly come to the realization they were wrong, and will become naysayers too"

[LancelotSA]

Well, you would.
I read it as "the yaysayers have slowly come to the realization they were wrong, and will become naysayers too"

Aha, ok fair enough. So it is not a definate attempt to get rid of us physically but an all out attempt to ensure we change our way of thinking to yours?

[Moederloos]

Aha, ok fair enough. So it is not a definate attempt to get rid of us physically but an all out attempt to ensure we change our way of thinking to yours?

I really do not care in the slightest who succeeds in changing who's manner or way of thinking. Nor who changes who's opinions.

Only a fool will stick steadfastly to an opinion that is proven wrong.

If "our" arguments serve to change the opinion of others, then so be it - that is what debate and argument is intended to do.

You are welcome to try and change my opinion, and I feel I am welcome to try change yours. After all, why else debate?

[LancelotSA]

I really do not care in the slightest who succeeds in changing who's manner or way of thinking. Nor who changes who's opinions.

Only a fool will stick steadfastly to an opinion that is proven wrong.

If "our" arguments serve to change the opinion of others, then so be it - that is what debate and argument is intended to do.

You are welcome to try and change my opinion, and I feel I am welcome to try change yours. After all, why else debate?

Great point! That has always been my view and opinion, yet if I ever happen to have the gaul to put forward my view on any of these negative threads it is only a few minutes before I get "attacked" by all and sundry for being so stupid and "only a fool". I have never once had anyone enter into debate.

In fact rather than entering any sort of debate I am merely told that my opinion has already been "proven wrong". As far as I am aware the World Cup is in 2010 and I would only be able to be proved wrong then...

[Moederloos]

Great point! That has always been my view and opinion, yet if I ever happen to have the gaul to put forward my view on any of these negative threads it is only a few minutes before I get "attacked" by all and sundry for being so stupid and "only a fool". I have never once had anyone enter into debate. In dfact rather than entering any sort of debate I am merely told that my opinion has already been "proven wrong". As far as I am aware the World Cup is in 2010 and I would only be able to be proved wrong then...

That is an exaggeration - we are right now involved in one (a debate).
I do not recall ever having called you a fool, or stupid - and I do recall us debating.
I may have called your argument foolish though :p.

I try, when possible, and when my blood pressure is normal, to play the ball and not the man. I make exceptions for Pooky, though.

And I may have "played you once" - I do not claim an eidetic memory. But it is certainly not my normal MO.

[LancelotSA]

That is an exaggeration - we are right now involved in one (a debate).
I do not recall ever having called you a fool, or stupid - and I do recall us debating.
I may have called your argument foolish though :p.

I try, when possible, and when my blood pressure is normal, to play the ball and not the man. I make exceptions for Pooky, though.

And I may have "played you once" - I do not claim an eidetic memory. But it is certainly not my normal MO.

Fair enough Moederloos, I too do not always know exactly where the "attack" came from and tend to tar everyone who does attack me with the same feathers. My reponses often have to be to a number of attackes at once and obviously they do not always say the exact same things but their train of thought is similar.

I will correct you on the one point you made... you may not have called me a fool directly but I do not need to be of the highest intelligence to deduce who this was aimed at....

"Only a fool will stick steadfastly to an opinion that is proven wrong."

EDIT : I too may now have made a common error of responding in haste without reading your entire post.... I see you do point out that my argument is foolish and not me.... but still not sure that would not make me foolish by association! :)

[Moederloos]

I will correct you on the one point you made... you may not have called me a fool directly but I do not need to be of the highest intelligence to deduce who this was aimed at....

"Only a fool will stick steadfastly to an opinion that is proven wrong."


Simple paranoia. :D
I did not intend it as meant that way.
It is a simple enough philosophy amongst learned men - and often used.
I would be that fool if you proved beyond a reasonable doubt that my view point is incorrect, yet I clung to it.


There is a popular anecdote - but damned if I can find it now.
Goes along the lines of:

There was a lecturer in some or other scientific discipline, who, for as long as anyone could remember, would loudly and convincingly argue a theory of his to his students. He would listen to arguments against, and then grind these arguments to dust - always victorious.

One day he invited a guest speaker to a lecture, a very learned and well known scientist. This scientist destroyed the professors beloved theory, with conviction. The students were silent through out, unsure as to what the lecturer would say, or do.

At the end of the period, the lecturer stood up, walked silently over to his guest, extended his hand, and said "Thank you sir for correcting me, for all these 20 years, I have been wrong."

[LancelotSA]

Simple paranoia. :D
I did not intend it as meant that way.
It is a simple enough philosophy amongst learned men - and often used.
I would be that fool if you proved beyond a reasonable doubt that my view point is incorrect, yet I clung to it.


There is a popular anecdote - but damned if I can find it now.
Goes along the lines of:

There was a lecturer in some or other scientific discipline, who, for as long as anyone could remember, would loudly and convincingly argue a theory of his to his students. He would listen to arguments against, and then grind these arguments to dust - always victorious.

One day he invited a guest speaker to a lecture, a very learned and well known scientist. This scientist destroyed the professors beloved theory, with conviction. The students were silent through out, unsure as to what the lecturer would say, or do.

At the end of the period, the lecturer stood up, walked silently over to his guest, extended his hand, and said "Thank you sir for correcting me, for all these 20 years, I have been wrong."


GREAT! So you mean there is still hope that I can change you all?! ;)

[Moederloos]

GREAT! So you mean there is still hope that I can change you all?! ;)

I can only speak for myself.

I am a strong Atheist for example, and, as with all rational people (allow me to put myself in that category for the sake of argument :D), I would change that view point if I got convincing proof of a god or gods. As I would for any belief or opinion I hold.

Some people, however, ARE fools - and those neither of us would ever change.

[LancelotSA]

I can only speak for myself.

I am a strong Atheist for example, and, as with all rational people (allow me to put myself in that category for the sake of argument :D), I would change that view point if I got convincing proof of a god or gods. As I would for any belief or opinion I hold.

Some people, however, ARE fools - and those neither of us would ever change.

Again great point (damn I am giving you a lot :))

I suppose everyone, except those true fools you mention, has a point at which they will change their opinion, and (at risk of getting a lot of people sending me messages to convince me now) perhaps I personally have just not reached that point or seen that "god" for myself as regards SA.

[Moederloos]

Again great point (damn I am giving you a lot :))

I suppose everyone, except those true fools you mention, has a point at which they will change their opinion, and (at risk of getting a lot of people sending me messages to convince me now) perhaps I personally have just not reached that point or seen that "god" for myself as regards SA.

My last post for now unfortunately - need to go battle traffic today to get to work.

Not sure how long you have been here on myadsl, but when I joined 2-3 years ago, I was "you". I am unsure how to pull out my oldest posts, but if you could do so, you would see my viewpoints then were not that unlike yours now.

[LancelotSA]

My last post for now unfortunately - need to go battle traffic today to get to work.

Not sure how long you have been here on myadsl, but when I joined 2-3 years ago, I was "you". I am unsure how to pull out my oldest posts, but if you could do so, you would see my viewpoints then were not that unlike yours now.

Nah, I'm a persevering stubborn little b_stard, so it will take longer than that with me! ha ha

So you reckon it is all the negativity on here that changed you? Perhaps I should stop reading this forum and go to the "Don't worry be happy" one.......? ;)

I'm off too, have a great day!

[BobbyMac]

insufficient accommodation in Cape Town?
MATCH, FIFA's accommodation team have already found all the rooms to meet FIFA requirements in Cape Town, thanks to 7000 beds in Stellenbosch. Thats apart from the 9 new hotels and cruise ships which will move into the harbour.I didn't realise hotels were seaworthy.
Cape Town is quite busy with behind the scenes planning on its transport infrastructure with both local and international experts.Planning is a little late now, it should be implementing
The city's 2010 transport team have been to South America thrice now to learn from Bogota, and to order the busses for the inner city transport system.I certainly hope you are not involved with the proof reading of the press releases. It's buses.
Apart from the R1 billion + upgrade to the airport and an additional 6 billion in public transport spending pre 2010.And a lot of high ranking officials are all saying they had better get a move on. The Confederations cup is now only a year away ;)
As before, its very easy say nothing is being done especially when you choose to be ignorant. Supppose being ignorant is the easy route.How can we be ignorant? Our power is being cut constantly. The cost to the economy is bloody scary, and we're already pissing tourists off (Cape Town - good job on not installing a generator for the cable car there. Well done!)
Eskom and the government have messed up with regards to electricity supply,Understatement of the day. To be honest, where has the government actually done anything right?
but it doesn't mean that host cities have been preparing behind the scenes and in 2008 implementing these plans.You're probably right. The cities probably realised it's pointless to continue trying to prepare for a month event that's going to cost more money than it's worth. I'm glad you finally agree.
If anybody was really interested to see what is being planned and construction taking place visit www.skyscrapercity.com.The stadiums being built will probably be the only thing that may be finished on time. Power cuts permitting.
On the other hand, being ignorant might just be less of an effort, which seems to be the trend on these forums.
I'm afraid you're the ignorant one if you refuse to acknowledge there are problems. Serious problems that may very well impact not only the success of the tournament, but indeed the reputation of this country.

[sand_man]

Sounds like we having a mass debate...

[BiteMe]

buses and busses are both aceptable terms, however, buses is more commonly used.

[BobbyMac]

buses and busses are both aceptable terms, however, buses is more commonly used.

No, "busses" is a common typographical spelling error, whereas "buses" is the only accepted English spelling.

[daveza]

Good to see the thread back on track....

Naysayers vs Yaysayers - let's play the ball not the man ( scuse the pun ).

Could the yaysayers offer any heartwarming facts/evidence of how the problems are being dealt with, apart from some buses. If there is sufficient proof I will gladly become a yaysayer - really.

Tell me / us - how many buses, when they will arrive.
- how do we get to the stadium without a station
- what new roads are being built
- which ships are coming, are they going to upgrade the harbour facilities to cope
- how do we guarantee power for the matches, the transport system and the tourists comfort.
- are we ready with sufficient bandwidth, broadcast technology to beam high quality imaging and commentary to the world
- where are the security and traffic forces to manage this event.
- how to prevent taxi drivers attempting to hijack the event under threat of blockades etc.
- in short, what concrete (?!) plans are there that are waiting to be implemented. Not pipe dreams, maybe's, willbe's.


What I don't want to hear is that this will be an ' African ' World Cup and that visitors really want a flavour of Africa warts and all. Bollocks.

Re the comment about only being able to say it's a failure in 2010...

This is the biggest event in the world - ever.

Having it held in my city in my lifetime is something most just dream about. It will never come back here in my or perhaps even my kids lifetime.

I don't want to lose the event to another country - I want to know that we are doing everything possible to make it a success.

I'm just not convinced.

[daveza]

Sounds like we having a mass debate...

I think that one is being held in Copenhagen...

[Skinner]

Well, you would.
I read it as "the yaysayers have slowly come to the realization they were wrong, and will become naysayers too"

Correct, that was exactly my aim with the post.

I would not be surprised if many of those ex-yaysayers have emmigrated already!!

[BiteMe]

No, "busses" is a common typographical spelling error, whereas "buses" is the only accepted English spelling.

apparently not. go find something to back up your theory.
I have, so I know they are both acceptable.

[sand_man]

Look we hosted a very successful rugby world cup in 95 and more recently cricket world cup 2003. While our infrastructure seems to be taking huge strides backwards and the soccer world cup is a significantly bigger an event, I'm confident we will host a very good cup. More frightening than whether we'll be ready on time is what of the crimeand its impact on the tourists visiting although to be fair I don't recall any major incidence in either of the other world cups..

[Skinner]

I tell you what: if I see enough busses with tourists, and after the tournament the busses will take me to work safely and back, and the busses will never be late, I will become a believer in a busses and I will become a yaysayer. Viva Busses Viva!!

[daveza]

The rugby world cup had just over 3 billion watching via television, around 2 million spectators at the matches.

2010 - 30 billion viewers on tv.

3.5 million at the games.

Some more ...

The 2006 world cup website had 4.2 billion page hits in a month.

Actually let me just post all the details so everyone knows what is expected of us.


2006 FIFA World Cup™ in numbers



The 18 th FIFA World Cup
FIFA World Cup Trophy

weight of the real FIFA World Cup Trophy = 4,970g
height of the real solid gold trophy = 36 cm
Total 3,359,439 spectators at 64 games in the 12 stadiums -> 2 nd highest on-site audience after USA 1994 (higher due to bigger capacity)
An average 52,491 spectators watched each match in one of the 12 stadiums
Over 15 million applications for tickets on offer to the public
All 64 matches sold out
99.5% capacity of each stadium filled
Training camps:

70 rented training venues
1,500 training units held by the 32 teams
64,000 km travelled by the 32 teams between team base camp and venue
5 tons luggage for the 32 teams
480 doping tests before and during the event
Goal of the Tournament - Maxi Rodriguez (for Argentina v. Mexico)
Award for Most Entertaining Team presented by Yahoo! - Portugal
The adidas Golden Shoe Award - Miroslav Klose
Gillette Best Young Player Award - Lukas Podolski
The adidas Golden Ball Award - Zinedine Zidane
Anheuser Busch Bud Man of the Match - Andrea Pirlo (final)
Hyundai Fan of the Match - Katarina Grabner (overall)
FIFA Fair Pay Award - Brazil & Spain
Lev Yashin Prize for Best Goalkeeper - Gianluigi Buffon
Operations


Staffing

85,185 people worked on behalf of the LOC during the event, among those

279 employed LOC staff at headquarters and venues
280 temporary LOC staff
16,440 security stewards in the 12 stadia (average of 1,370 per match)
additional 2,760 security stewards in team camps, headquarters, official hotels and training camps
8,000 medical staff
2,500 artists for opening and closing ceremony
15,000 volunteers
800 hostesses
80 travel and event services employees
400 CTS employees (OC ticketing provider)
Volunteers

15,000 in total
62% male 38% female
58% under 30, but also 500 retired people
80 - age of eldest volunteer
9% foreigners
45 different languages covered incl. Hindu, Korean and Japanese
Accreditation

240,000 registered accreditations
Security

an average of 1,370 security stewards used per game
between 500 - 2,500 ad hoc controls per game at stadium entrance
o 87,680 total security employees
o 100,000 confiscated objects
Stadia

96 ha new turf in the 12 FIFA World Cup stadia
14,000m2 artificial turf
20,000m2 of goal netting
24 extra pitch mowers
115 groundsmen
IT & Telecommunications
o 500 - 600 switches required for the FIFA World Cup network in the stadiums
o 1,000 km of cabling throughout the stadia
o 15,000 km of copper wiring required for the FIFA World Cup network
o 4,500 terminals connected to the convergent FIFA World Cup network (including c. 3,000 IP phones)
o c. 10,000 flat screens made available for reporters and in the media zones
o c. 30,000 communication points for the press box (including ISDN & internet)
Transportation

650 Hyundai cars plus 250 rental Hyundai cars
1,000 professional drivers and 1,000 volunteer drivers
3,600 bus days for teams, VIPs and Media shuttles
60% of spectators used public means of transportations
15 million people used the train during the tournament
Public Catering Concessions

Over 20 million euros in total sales
1,056,000 litres beer sold in the 12 stadia
5,500,000 drinks in returnable cups sold in the 12 stadia
MediaConsumption


TV

Broadcast to 214 countries
on 376 channels
43,600 "dedicated" programmes broadcast
Total coverage of 73,072 hours (+76.4% on 2002, +146% on 1998)
Cumulative TV audience of 26.29 billion (24.2 billion in-home viewers, 2.1 billion out-of-home)
Most-watched match: Italy v France final, total cumulative audience of 715.1 million viewers
Each match received on average 858 hours of dedicated coverage and attracted a cumulative audience of 259.9 million viewers
Online

FIFAworldcup.com most successful sports event website
4.2 billion page views from June 9-July 9 - more than double the traffic recorded during the 2002 event
More than 125 million Video Streams -- 2006 marks the first year that video highlights of FIFA World Cup matches were free to air on the web
Over 875,000 Fantasy Sign-Ups - record numbers signed up to play fantasy football
More than 73 million Page Views on the Mobile Web Portal after FIFAworldcup.com went mobile for the first time
MediaOperations

Record 18,850 media representatives accredited (incl. technicians)

4,250 print/internet journalists and editors
1,200 photographers
13,400 TV commentators, camera teams, technicians
Alongside the FIFA World Cup


First official public viewing programme - the Fan Fest 2006 FIFA World Cup

15 event locations
18 million spectators
19,000 people involved
3.5 million litres of beer sold
1.75 million litres of non-alcoholic drinks sold
3.5 million sausages sold (nearly one in five visitors bought a sausage)
15,000 media representatives covered event on-site
23 merchandise shops, 1 superstore with 600m2
4,000 hours entertainment programme (incl. broadcast of all 58 matches possible to show)
720 hours programme with sponsor content
39 giant screens
1.5 million watt sound system
3 million watt lighting system
350 trucks for stages, giant screens, scaffolding, sound, lightning
23,000 m2 of FIFA World Cup design decorations
Global FIFA World Cup Trophy Tour by Coca-Cola

First time real trophy on tour
31 cities in 29 countries in all 6 Confederations
202,480 visitors
3,448 journalists
More than 100,000 km around the globe
More than 60 pages of coverage
Domestic FIFA World Cup Trophy Tour

21 cities
364,500 visitors

[Skinner]

The rugby world cup had just over 3 billion watching via television, around 2 million spectators at the matches.

2010 - 30 billion viewers on tv.

3.5 million at the games.

Some more ...

The 2006 world cup website had 4.2 billion page hits in a month.

Actually let me just post all the details so everyone knows what is expected of us.

As said, I was present for the WC 2006 in Germany.

It is NOT Mickey Mouse stuff. The RWC and CWC does not even compare.

The "but it will be an AFRICAN SWC" excuse for substandards will only cut it up to a certain point and then not further. Mr German tourist still wants electricity (and not gas cooker / fire) in his guesthouse. If not, Mr German tourist gets very, very angry.

[Moederloos]

I think that one is being held in Copenhagen...

lol - so witty.

[BobbyMac]

apparently not. go find something to back up your theory.
I have, so I know they are both acceptable.
The Oxford English dictionary clearly indicates "busses" as a common typographical error. However, let's stick a pin in it. You're obviously far less English than you thought ;)

Edit. By the way, out of my lengthy response, you decided to further nitpick about spelling? Did you even read the original text I was responding to?

[icyrus]

The rugby world cup had just over 3 billion watching via television, around 2 million spectators at the matches.

2010 - 30 billion viewers on tv.

You need to think before posting. What is the entire world's population?

[Moederloos]

You need to think before posting. What is the entire world's population?

Maybe he included pets?
:p

[BiteMe]

The Oxford English dictionary clearly indicates "busses" as a common typographical error. However, let's stick a pin in it. You're obviously far less English than you thought ;)

Edit. By the way, out of my lengthy response, you decided to further nitpick about spelling? Did you even read the original text I was responding to?

i read this whole thread, but chose not to get involved in something that has already been debated at length. However, you chose to nitpick on spelling, when in fact both terms are used. I also mentioned that buses is
the more commonly used variant, but whatever rocks your boat I suppose.

I happen to have had this argument before once upon a time, when the Volvo busses we had in S.A. were signwritten....buses...and at that stage we called in various sources to try sort it out, so I'm talking from experience.

I'm not saying your version of the OED doesnt say busses etc etc as you mention, just that a dictionary is a living thing, what isnt right today may well be in it tomorrow.

and buses and busses are both there.

[mac_mac74]

First we have to have a commitee, then a debate, then approval for finance, then another commitee, then tenders followed by another commitee to approve the plans - which will be in excess of what the finance commitee discussed so................. then we have workers striking and load shedding so the commitees get postponed........

.

you forgot too add , calculation of who gets what bribes (African style of course).

[daveza]

You need to think before posting. What is the entire world's population?

http://www.eufootball.biz/Television/120207-2006-World-Cup-broadcast---the-most-extensive-to-date.html


A cumulative audience, in-home and out-of-home, of 26.29 billion viewers.

That was the 2006 cup and yes, it's a cumulative total

[daveza]

An interesting and prophetic article - note the date.

I have just included relevant paragraphs... nothing has changed in regard to these concerns.

Is there nothing concrete on offer from the yaysayers or is it all just blind optimism ?





Friday, 7 July 2006, 03:27 GMT

South Africa's 2010 Cup challenge
A ceremony is being held in Germany to officially hand over the World Cup to South Africa, which in 2010 will become the first African country to host the championship. The BBC's Mohammed Allie looks at what needs to be done.
South Africa's 2010 football World Cup is set to be the most commercially successful since the first tournament was held 76 years ago.

The event has already attracted more marketing and television attention than the 2006 event, according to Fifa President Sepp Blatter.

"The market trusts Africa," Mr Blatter says.



Confidence

Being entrusted by Fifa to host its flagship event is indeed a massive vote of confidence in the infrastructure and organisational capacity of South Africa, more so since it will be the first time the event will be held on African soil.

Events in recent months have, however, given the sceptics ample ammunition as South Africa's state of readiness comes under the microscope. The scepticism surfaced after potential shortcomings were exposed in the space of a few weeks earlier this year.


First, there were a series of unannounced cuts to Cape Town's electricity supply.
Next, there was a report to Parliament's Communications Portfolio Committee which revealed that the country's 30-year old broadcast infrastructure was not ready to cope with the needs of the World Cup.

Sentech Chief Executive Sebiletso Mokone-Matabane says a multibillion dollar investment in digital broadcasting transmission is needed to properly serve a worldwide television audience.

Sentech, the state-owned national broadcasting signal distributor, is due for an upgrade which will allay fears about the broadcasting capacity while Eskom, the national electricity supplier, has already started plans to upgrade its capacity.

Stadium row

Transport is an ongoing headache: South Africa's cities rely on privately-owned minibus taxis, and long-anticipated plans to upgrade the fleet are only now starting to get under away.


The Gautrain, an ambitious rail project aimed at easing traffic congestion in the Johannesburg-Pretoria area, will only be partly completed by 2010. It will take tourists from the airport as far as the suburb of Sandton, but will go nowhere near any of the stadiums.
In Cape Town, a proposed new 67,000-seat stadium, earmarked to host a semi-final match, has also got off to a faltering start.

[Moederloos]

An interesting and prophetic article - note the date.

I have just included relevant paragraphs... nothing has changed in regard to these concerns.

Is there nothing concrete on offer from the yaysayers or is it all just blind optimism ?

Well to be fair:


First, there were a series of unannounced cuts to Cape Town's electricity supply.

These are now announced, and not just in Cape Town.
Progress!

[daveza]

Ok - I'll give you that one . :-)

[Rozier]

As said, I was present for the WC 2006 in Germany.

It is NOT Mickey Mouse stuff. The RWC and CWC does not even compare.

The "but it will be an AFRICAN SWC" excuse for substandards will only cut it up to a certain point and then not further. Mr German tourist still wants electricity (and not gas cooker / fire) in his guesthouse. If not, Mr German tourist gets very, very angry.

Mr german tourist will also be highly peed off when he finds his luggage has been stolen and also has no transport to get to the game. And the first load of soccer hooligans that arrives will probably burn the airport down in frustration for the incompetance they encounter. No lights will no doubt elevate the mugging stats and all in all it should be very exciting for the tourists.
By the way, nice one about the Titanic :D

[Robin Hood]

Mr german tourist will also be highly peed off when he finds his luggage has been stolen and also has no transport to get to the game. And the first load of soccer hooligans that arrives will probably burn the airport down in frustration for the incompetance they encounter. No lights will no doubt elevate the mugging stats and all in all it should be very exciting for the tourists.

Criminals have already taken advantage of the power-cuts. In KZN, just outside Vryheid, they have already stolen cable ( while they had a power cut )...When the REAL power came on, the guys were still in darkness...waiting for Eskom's power :)

[Moederloos]

Criminals have already taken advantage of the power-cuts. In KZN, just outside Vryheid, they have already stolen cable ( while they had a power cut )...When the REAL power came on, the guys were still in darkness...waiting for Eskom's power :)

Yeah = happened to someone I know in Krugersdorp too. Took them 6 hours to realise - they thought it was still a "2 hour" load shed.
:rolleyes:

[Rozier]

Criminals have already taken advantage of the power-cuts. In KZN, just outside Vryheid, they have already stolen cable ( while they had a power cut )...When the REAL power came on, the guys were still in darkness...waiting for Eskom's power :)

It would be damn funny if it wasn't so tragic. Pity the power never came on while they were busy cutting the cable.:rolleyes:

[Robin Hood]

THIS circus i'm going to watch from home....streched out on the couch while drinking my beer...Laurel and Hardy will not come CLOSE to this.. :D

[Rozier]

THIS circus i'm going to watch from home....streched out on the couch while drinking my beer...Laurel and Hardy will not come CLOSE to this.. :D

Just remember you will only be able to watch if the power is on. :D

[Robin Hood]

Just remember you will only be able to watch if the power is on. :D

...true :mad:

[daveza]

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20070515141300975C518962

May 15 2007 at 03:56PM


World Cup: 'Pessimists to eat their words'

Pessimists who are doubting South Africa's ability to host the 2010 Soccer World Cup will have to "eat their own words" in 2009 when all preparations for the event would be completed, Deputy Finance Minister Jabu Moleketi said on Tuesday.

During an update on government's progress on preparation for the World Cup, Moleketi said some people had "targeted 2010" to reflect their negativity about South Africa and Africa.

"They'll have to eat their own words at the end of the day, come 2009 when everything is ready.

"They'll have to think of something else to be negative about and they will think of something," he said.


Right.

http://www.sa2010.gov.za/news/highlights.php


22 January 2008 - This year, FNB expects real fixed-investment growth of 13%-16% in the electricity, transport, communications and mining industries in the run-up to the 2010 Soccer World Cup™.


10 January 2008 - City of Cape Town and provincial authorities have until April to begin most of transport projects planned for the 2010 World Cup. These include the widening of Cape Town's most congested intersection and the Koeberg Interchange and projects that will include non-motorised transport. R30-million has been earmarked for these upgrades.


FNB - glad I don't use them for investment advise.

City of Cape Town - again, we have a very detailed plan.

Which most congested intersection ?

Non-motorised transport ??!! Rickshaws, ossewa , bicycles, skateboards?

And all this for 30 million ? This only half the amount of the Eskom bonuses discussed elsewhere on this forum.

Well we have until April - maybe some answers will emerge.

City of Cape Town - what exactly is the plan ?

What are you doing about the unfinished flyovers ?

What are you doing about the lack of transport ?

What are you doing about the stink near Athlone ?

What plans for the squatter squallor near the airport ?

Non-motorised transport - I nearly laughed.

[hj2k_x]

Which most congested intersection ?

The one at the end of the foreshore, just before the lights to the Waterfront/CTICC. Because of the incomplete flyovers, there are like 10 roads which come together here. A nightmare in rush hour.


Non-motorised transport ??!! Rickshaws, ossewa , bicycles, skateboards?

LOL! I would also love to see what they have in mind here!


What are you doing about the unfinished flyovers ?

Filming movie and commercials on them and cashing in in the process.


What are you doing about the stink near Athlone ?

Do you know what causes this? I thought that those things were cooling towers, but that doesn't explain the stink, which is really bad.


What plans for the squatter squallor near the airport ?

Bulldozers. :(

[hj2k_x]

i read this whole thread, but chose not to get involved in something that has already been debated at length. However, you chose to nitpick on spelling, when in fact both terms are used. I also mentioned that buses is
the more commonly used variant, but whatever rocks your boat I suppose.

I happen to have had this argument before once upon a time, when the Volvo busses we had in S.A. were signwritten....buses...and at that stage we called in various sources to try sort it out, so I'm talking from experience.

I'm not saying your version of the OED doesnt say busses etc etc as you mention, just that a dictionary is a living thing, what isnt right today may well be in it tomorrow.

and buses and busses are both there.

OT: Feel free to have it out here: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=100944&highlight=english+language

For what it's worth, it's buses.

[daveza]

Do you know what causes this? I thought that those things were cooling towers, but that doesn't explain the stink, which is really bad.



A sewage plant across the road.

[hj2k_x]

A sewage plant across the road.

Well how do they handle this elsewhere? I am sure that sewerage works across the rest of the world also stink...

[daveza]

This is Africa.

We do things differently.

[hj2k_x]

What kind of an answer is that? Are you saying that sewerage treatment plants in other countries don't stink?

[daveza]

I'm saying

In other parts of the world this would not be tolerated.
In other parts of the world this would come to the notice of the health department.
In other parts of the world someone would take responsibility.

But I think you are asking a more scientific explanation.

The answer is I have no idea. I lived here for almost 50 years and it's always been that way as far back as I can remember.

Anyone else in Cape Town have an answer ?

[hj2k_x]

I'm saying

In other parts of the world this would not be tolerated.
In other parts of the world this would come to the notice of the health department.
In other parts of the world someone would take responsibility.

But I think you are asking a more scientific explanation.

The answer is I have no idea. I lived here for almost 50 years and it's always been that way as far back as I can remember.

Anyone else in Cape Town have an answer ?


I see...ok. I just thought that that is the way sewerage treatment plants are - stinky- which is why they try to keep them away from residential areas.

[daveza]

On second thought, perhaps it's where all the politicians bullsh#t goes to die.

[hj2k_x]

On second thought, perhaps it's where all the politicians bullsh#t goes to die.

That would explain the constant stench!

[Ricard]

I see...ok. I just thought that that is the way sewerage treatment plants are - stinky- which is why they try to keep them away from residential areas.


And so you dont see what they ACTUALLY do with raw sewage.


http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3045&art_id=vn20080126092251791C844680


Municipal authorities have failed to respond to a massive sewage spill that has been gushing into an internationally proclaimed wetland in Springs.

Sewage has been pouring in at an estimated rate of 10 000 litres a minute for up to a month.

Millions of litres of raw sewage are now clogging the Blesbokspruit, a designated Ramsar Convention wetland of international importance.

The sewage is also pouring into the nearby Marievale Bird Sanctuary, a popular birding spot and catchment of the Blesbokspruit. The spruit ultimately flows into the Vaal River.

[capetownguy]

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20070515141300975C518962

City of Cape Town - what exactly is the plan ?



- City of Cape Town , 2010 Business Plan (http://www.capetown.gov.za/fifaworldcup/pdf/Bus_Plan31Oct2006Final.pdf)

[capetownguy]

Good to see the thread back on track....

Naysayers vs Yaysayers - let's play the ball not the man ( scuse the pun ).

Could the yaysayers offer any heartwarming facts/evidence of how the problems are being dealt with, apart from some buses. If there is sufficient proof I will gladly become a yaysayer - really.

Tell me / us - how many buses, when they will arrive.
- how do we get to the stadium without a station
- what new roads are being built
- which ships are coming, are they going to upgrade the harbour facilities to cope
- how do we guarantee power for the matches, the transport system and the tourists comfort.
- are we ready with sufficient bandwidth, broadcast technology to beam high quality imaging and commentary to the world
- where are the security and traffic forces to manage this event.
- how to prevent taxi drivers attempting to hijack the event under threat of blockades etc.
- in short, what concrete (?!) plans are there that are waiting to be implemented. Not pipe dreams, maybe's, willbe's.


What I don't want to hear is that this will be an ' African ' World Cup and that visitors really want a flavour of Africa warts and all. Bollocks.

Re the comment about only being able to say it's a failure in 2010...

This is the biggest event in the world - ever.

Having it held in my city in my lifetime is something most just dream about. It will never come back here in my or perhaps even my kids lifetime.

I don't want to lose the event to another country - I want to know that we are doing everything possible to make it a success.

I'm just not convinced.

Cape Town 2010 Business Planhttp://www.capetown.gov.za/fifaworldcup/pdf/Bus_Plan31Oct2006Final.pdf

If anybody is interested in updates regarding stadium construction at Green Point and Athlone, transport plans in Cape Town, possible fan parks, etc. visit www.skyscrapercity.com and head over to the South Africa section. Browse through and if there are still questions, we can address them in those forums.

[kingmonty]

@Capetownguy. Good to see Cape Town's apparently on track, though I will wait before I count my chickens, at least until they're hatched. That being said, Cape Town is not the signigicant part of the world cup. In fact, with only a quarter final game there it's not even close. But yeah, good luck there. The rest of the country is in trouble. Perhaps it's time you larney lot in CT form a prinicipality and take old kortbroek with ya ;)