Eskom running out of coal?

[Syndyre]

Read this a couple of days ago:



By last year Eskom was unable to fully supply itself with coal, and started to outsource, naturally enough, to "black economic empowerment" companies who only know rudimentary things about coal mining. Eskom's coal stocks are now good only for days, rather than months. Chaos is the order of the day. (http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page84?oid=187078&sn=Detail)

And now the government's saying something similar:


In addition we are now experiencing serious problems with coal quality and stocks. We are engaging the industry to change this situation and we need to make it clear that should there be no rapid improvement we will not hesitate to use emergency measures. Poor quality coal and events like the current heavy rain create too great a risk for the system. This combination of factors has caused unprecedented levels of unplanned outages. This is too disruptive to ordinary households and the business community with those least able to adjust bearing the greatest brunt. (http://www.info.gov.za/speeches/2008/08012511151001.htm)

So what, now we're going to be load shedded even more when they don't have any coal stocks? :mad::mad::mad:

[gregmcc]

events like the current heavy rain create too great a risk for the system.

So now its the weathers fault there's no coal. Of course it didnt have anything to do with Eskom being runs but a bunch of incompetent morons!

[The Cosmos]

Hey, i know, why don't we all pack up, and go back in the woods. And live off nature....i mean, to hell with the city life.

[timgaul]

I hope between the government, Eskom and their partners there is some much infighting that they implode. Theres a lesson to you about the incorrect application of AA and BEE.

[timgaul]

So now its the weathers fault there's no coal. Of course it didnt have anything to do with Eskom being runs but a bunch of incompetent morons!

So now you get a generator. Of course we are looming on a petrol and diesel crisis in Joburg. They are building a new pipe from Durban - but without electricity this could become a long engagement. So no diesel or petrol to power you generators. No electricity from Eskom. We're all going to be in one big pile of poo together.

[G2V]

Eskom have access to more than enough coal to last them for decades.

The coal is biggest Eskom's cost when it comes to running a power station. What is blatantly obvious here is that Eskom has been fiddling their accounting records, by buying less coal and inflating their profits.

Why - now the executives can pay themselves handsome bonuses at the expense of the ordinary South African citizen.

[Syndyre]

So now you get a generator. Of course we are looming on a petrol and diesel crisis in Joburg. They are building a new pipe from Durban - but without electricity this could become a long engagement. So no diesel or petrol to power you generators. No electricity from Eskom. We're all going to be in one big pile of poo together.

I'm sure the mass emigration will reduce power demand. Not to mention the recession that at this rate can't be far off.


Eskom have access to more than enough coal to last them for decades.

The coal is biggest Eskom's cost when it comes to running a power station. What is blatantly obvious here is that Eskom has been fiddling their accounting records, by buying less coal and inflating their profits.

Why - now the executives can pay themselves handsome bonuses at the expense of the ordinary South African citizen.

They've got coal in the ground but they don't seem to have it at the power stations.

[Alan]

Eskom have access to more than enough coal to last them for decades.

The coal is biggest Eskom's cost when it comes to running a power station. What is blatantly obvious here is that Eskom has been fiddling their accounting records, by buying less coal and inflating their profits.

Why - now the executives can pay themselves handsome bonuses at the expense of the ordinary South African citizen.

No surprise there

[gregmcc]

So now you get a generator. Of course we are looming on a petrol and diesel crisis in Joburg. They are building a new pipe from Durban - but without electricity this could become a long engagement. So no diesel or petrol to power you generators. No electricity from Eskom. We're all going to be in one big pile of poo together.

This all sounds familiar...can you say Zimbabwe. :eek:

[mac_mac74]

They've got coal in the ground but they don't seem to have it at the power stations.


"black economic empowerment" - say no more

[dlk001]

"black economic empowerment" - say no more

BEE is not the issue with respect to coal production!

[dlk001]

Some stats and info that might interest people It might not be accurate but gives an overview of coal mining industry!

- SA has two main coalfields in Mpumalanga (Witbank and Highveld) and Limpompo (Waterberg).

- The Waterberg coalfield is the lesser known and far from economic hubs of SA. Waterberg has huge coal reserves but the coal bed is very complex compared to Witbank and Highveld.

- 11 mines account for 70% of SA coal output.

- 5 companies account for 85% of coal output.

- About 45-50 mines in Mpumalanga account for 80% of SA coal output.

- It’s uncertain how many reserves left in Mpumalanga.

- Expects believe that by 2020, many of the large coal mines in Mpumalanga coalfields will have closed down or their reserves will be near exhaustion. Thats why there is a big research started in 1998 called Coaltech 2020.

- Long-term planning by Eskom and the DME has shown that re-commissioning of our three mothballed power stations (Komati, Grootvlei and Camden) will not be enough to satisfy the projected medium- to long-term growth in electricity demand. New peak generation capacity will be required by 2009 and base load capacity by 2011.

[Ricard]

SA has many grades of coal.. the Crap coal is usually burnt at power stations.. the anthracite and high-grade stuff is usually exported.

One of the major consumers of Coal is by Sasol... ama-glug-glug.

[timgaul]

BEE is not the issue with respect to coal production!

Uh, yes it is.


By last year Eskom was unable to fully supply itself with coal, and started to outsource, naturally enough, to "black economic empowerment" companies who only know rudimentary things about coal mining. Eskom's coal stocks are now good only for days, rather than months. Chaos is the order of the day.

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page84?oid=187078&sn=Detail

[Ricard]

- Long-term planning by Eskom and the DME has shown that re-commissioning of our three mothballed power stations (Komati, Grootvlei and Camden) will not be enough to satisfy the projected medium- to long-term growth in electricity demand. New peak generation capacity will be required by 2009 and base load capacity by 2011.

If you call a concrete building a Power station.... Many were cannibalised for spares! They were never maintained.

the phrase should be 'Rebuilding the Powerstations that were stolen while in a mothballed state"

[Syndyre]

- Long-term planning by Eskom and the DME has shown that re-commissioning of our three mothballed power stations (Komati, Grootvlei and Camden) will not be enough to satisfy the projected medium- to long-term growth in electricity demand. New peak generation capacity will be required by 2009 and base load capacity by 2011.

How long will it take to get those back online anyway?

[McSack]

BEE is not the issue with respect to coal production!

Correct. But apparently it is the issue with respect to coal supply


By last year Eskom was unable to fully supply itself with coal, and started to outsource, naturally enough, to "black economic empowerment" companies who only know rudimentary things about coal mining. Eskom's coal stocks are now good only for days, rather than months. Chaos is the order of the day.

What's probably happened is an unneccessary "middle man" was included in the procurement process just so some cronie could make a mint for doing fsk-all. Cronie subsequently did fsk-all and now we have a problem with coal supply

[McSack]

How long will it take to get those back online anyway?
Apparently they are in a sorry state and refurbishment may as well start by demolishing what's left:(

[timgaul]

Correct. But apparently it is the issue with respect to coal supply


True, but someone should've anticipated this problem several million years ago when coal production began! :D

[The_Librarian]

Dear Eskom and Guavamint.

Just **** you.

Thank you.

[EchoZA]

Hey, i know, why don't we all pack up, and go back in the woods. And live off nature....i mean, to hell with the city life.

Jericho... :)

[Syndyre]

Apparently they are in a sorry state and refurbishment may as well start by demolishing what's left:(

Great. :mad:

[dlk001]

Correct. But apparently it is the issue with respect to coal supply

What's probably happened is an unneccessary "middle man" was included in the procurement process just so some cronie could make a mint for doing fsk-all. Cronie subsequently did fsk-all and now we have a problem with coal supply

BEE coal companies are run by experienced coal mining people who worked for the BIG five. The problems associated with delivery to Eskom are mostly technical constraints and under-performance by some collieries.

I know that the BIG 5 do not dispose good assets to smaller entrants (mostly being BEE entrants). Bad geological conditions, variable coal seam thickness, variable coal quality, access to the logistic chain make it difficult for a small miner.

Business is business and I guess BIG 5 will easily give away crap reserves in order to secure their licenses for the good ones. Eyesizwe coal got into the industry early enough to secure probably the last of the good deals. Even they have been struggling to compete but under Exxaro, I'm sure they have improved.

[Syndyre]

BEE coal companies are run by experienced coal mining people who worked for the BIG five. The problems associated with delivery to Eskom are mostly technical constraints and under-performance by some collieries.

I know that the BIG 5 do not dispose good assets to smaller entrants (mostly being BEE entrants). Bad geological conditions, variable coal seam thickness, variable coal quality, access to the logistic chain make it difficult for a small miner.

Business is business and I guess BIG 5 will easily give away crap reserves in order to secure their licenses for the good ones. Eyesizwe coal got into the industry early enough to secure probably the last of the good deals. Even they have been struggling to compete but under Exxaro, I'm sure they have improved.

If that's the case shouldn't Eskom secure the most suitable coal for its needs regardless of the BEE status of the company it has to get it from? Assuming the BEE companies don't have access to the right type of coal I mean which seemed to be what you were implying.

[McSack]

:(
Dammit @syndyre beat me to it.

(too busy having a rant in another forum :o)

[Syndyre]

:(
Dammit @syndyre beat me to it.

(too busy having a rant in another forum :o)

:D

[arni1954]

BEE coal companies are run by experienced coal mining people who worked for the BIG five. The problems associated with delivery to Eskom are mostly technical constraints and under-performance by some collieries.

I know that the BIG 5 do not dispose good assets to smaller entrants (mostly being BEE entrants). Bad geological conditions, variable coal seam thickness, variable coal quality, access to the logistic chain make it difficult for a small miner.

Business is business and I guess BIG 5 will easily give away crap reserves in order to secure their licenses for the good ones. Eyesizwe coal got into the industry early enough to secure probably the last of the good deals. Even they have been struggling to compete but under Exxaro, I'm sure they have improved.
If the BEE people knew that the coal is of low quality why had they got into the deal ? Because they knew that Eskom will buy from them regardless of the quality of the coal due to the color of their skin.
Now Eskom and the BEE miners got a problem . The BEE thing which is an evil to start of with is just catching up with them and with the rest of the country. Welcome to hell

[Syndyre]

Definitely a coal problem:


An AngloGold Ashanti statement said: "According to Eskom, the current situation arises from reduced generating capacity aggravated by problems associated with coal supplies to power stations caused by unusually heavy rainfall. Eskom has not yet indicated how long the present situation will continue but the company is in contact with the electricity supply body."

Speculation amongst coal industry sources this week was that Eskom's power stations were down to as low as a five-day reserve of coal that it could burn. (http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?ArticleId=1518-25_2258604)

[hashbrown99]

And yet Eskom is telling mines to shut down... WTF????

[dlk001]

If that's the case shouldn't Eskom secure the most suitable coal for its needs regardless of the BEE status of the company it has to get it from? Assuming the BEE companies don't have access to the right type of coal I mean which seemed to be what you were implying.

Yes, you are right.

A company's BEE status comes secondary to ability to produce and deliver suitable coal. Last time I checked at an application to Eskom while helping a BEE group under Anglocoal's Zimele, Eskom were strict about quality while saying "We encourage BEE companies".

[McSack]

clusterfsk of note coming up:

Eskom: "We haven't kept our coal reserves high enough to be able to supply mines with electricity"
Mines: " We can't produce coal if we haven't got electricity"
Eskom: "Yes but we need coal..."

:rolleyes:

[Syndyre]

Yes, you are right.

A company's BEE status comes secondary to ability to produce and deliver suitable coal. Last time I checked at an application to Eskom while helping a BEE group under Anglocoal's Zimele, Eskom were strict about quality while saying "We encourage BEE companies".

Exactly, I just wonder if its always applied in practice. Even if a company's BEE status is secondary its owners connections might not be.

[dlk001]

Exactly, I just wonder if its always applied in practice. Even if a company's BEE status is secondary its owners connections might not be.

There could be many reasons including those you are stating. The issue in not quality of coal from BEE, its simply quality of coal from suppliers.

Mining is a business full of kickbacks. Eskom signs a contract based on quality of drilling data provided by an applicant. Most small applicants use data provided by one of the BIG 5 for the farm they are disposing.

Every company tenders to Eskom and produces

- inferred reserve base
- quality based on limited drilling data
- logistics to deliver
- technical skills
- BEE
- other information (e.g. locality to an existing proven mine)

Quality to Eskom can deteriorate from agreed quality because

1. Export coal prices are so high that suppliers have started becoming more concerned about quality of coal going to Richards Bay than Eskom. Quality control on power station coal washing plants has therefore decreased.

2. BEE company lacking resources to wash to right quality. Eskom accepting the coal regardless, because of their stance "supporting BEE producers". Eskom is also desperate for coal.

Consider that most BEE companies wash their coal using facilities provided by one of the BIG five. The BIG companies supply most of Eskom's coal.

[milomak]

i heard, last week, from someone who worked at eskom the same story about the wet coal affecting supply into the plants.

[Syndyre]

There could be many reasons including those you are stating. The issue in not quality of coal from BEE, its simply quality of coal from suppliers.

Mining is a business full of kickbacks. Eskom signs a contract based on quality of drilling data provided by an applicant. Most small applicants use data provided by one of the BIG 5 for the farm they are disposing.

Every company tenders to Eskom and produces

- inferred reserve base
- quality based on limited drilling data
- logistics to deliver
- technical skills
- BEE
- other information (e.g. locality to an existing proven mine)

Quality to Eskom can deteriorate from agreed quality because

1. Export coal prices are so high that suppliers have started becoming more concerned about quality of coal going to Richards Bay than Eskom. Quality control on power station coal washing plants has therefore decreased.

2. BEE company lacking resources to wash to right quality. Eskom accepting the coal regardless, because of their stance "supporting BEE producers". Eskom is also desperate for coal.

Consider that most BEE companies wash their coal using facilities provided by one of the BIG five. The BIG companies supply most of Eskom's coal.


So Eskom pays significantly below export prices and so gets shafted in the process? Seems like they need to get proper SLA in place with regards to delivery, quality of coal etc. but I suppose that can be easier said than done.

[milomak]

LONDON, Jan 25 (Reuters) - Chief executive officers of all
South Africa's major coal mining companies were summoned to an
emergency meeting on Friday afternoon at state utility Eskom to
discuss ways of combating the country's power generation crisis,
industry sources said.
Producers are expected to be asked to make up any shortfalls
in domestic supply of spot or contract coal to Eskom with export
grade coal at the meeting, the sources said.
Eskom has enough coal to produce power at present, sources
said, although stocks are as low as 1-3 days supply at some
plants.
Coal mines tied to Eskom - which provide 100 pct of their
output to nearby power plants - have enjoyed uninterrupted power
supply.
But both underground and opencast coal mines have had
operations cut back or halted because their power supply has
been cut.
Eskom buys some spot coal from non-tied mines and will face
supply shortages due to the power cuts.


http://africa.reuters.com/country/ZA/news/usnL25778615.html

That part seems to indicate that the full capacity of "local" coal is not enough

[milomak]

the economics of the SA environment mean that Eskom couldn't power up South Africa previously if the vast majority of its coal wasn't from the established players.

[McSack]

http://africa.reuters.com/country/ZA/news/usnL25778615.html

That part seems to indicate that the full capacity of "local" coal is not enough

I think it's much like a lot of our fruit in SA... the best stuff is exported and us locals get the rest. It looks like Eishkom is saying to the suppliers that they have to make up the shortfall in the k@k local grade coal with the good stuff that was destined for export. (at the same low price nogal)

[milomak]

McSack where do you get that they have to provide at the same cost?

[dlk001]

If the BEE people knew that the coal is of low quality

They do not know the coal is of low quality. Sorry i used the word "variable quality". Its actually variable grade. They might be aware that its of variable grade. Their knowledge is as good as what the BIG company is willing to dispose to them. The desired grade to which at can be washed and the consistency of maintaining a desired quality within that grade can only be inferred from data they get.

Normally, they go to Eskom, Funders with the information from drilling data provided by the company that disposed the asset.

It matters to Eskom and Funders that such information was from a reputable proven company. It also matters to Eskom and Funders that such information is from a coalbed known to have many mines. Unfortunately, Eskom, especially Funders are not in mining business to know every detail. Else, Eskom and Funders would require a Bankability Study showing all proven reserves, each borehole quality in order to sign an agreement.

[Moederloos]

Dear Eskom and Guavamint.

Just **** you.

Thank you.


clusterfsk of note coming up:

Eskom: "We haven't kept our coal reserves high enough to be able to supply mines with electricity"
Mines: " We can't produce coal if we haven't got electricity"
Eskom: "Yes but we need coal..."

:rolleyes:

Both those brought tears to my eyes.
Not sure if its just laughter, or sadness.

[dlk001]

So Eskom pays significantly below export prices and so gets shafted in the process? Seems like they need to get proper SLA in place with regards to delivery, quality of coal etc. but I suppose that can be easier said than done.

Its market forces really. Spot price for coal has increased since 2000 to 2008 as follows:

1. Highest Grade Export coking coal = $45/t - $120/t
2. High Grade Export thermal coal = $30/t - $47/t
3. Low Grade Steam coal = $18/t - $40/t

You assume production costs around $12/t and transportation costs around $12/t at the moment.

[Syndyre]

Its market forces really. Spot price for coal has increased since 2000 to 2008 as follows:

1. Highest Grade Export coking coal = $45/t - $120/t
2. High Grade Export thermal coal = $30/t - $47/t
3. Low Grade Steam coal = $18/t - $40/t

You assume production costs around $12/t and transportation costs around $12/t at the moment.

So Eskom would use the low grade coal? I suppose at this stage they need to just get coal whatever the price, I'm sure the mines would gladly pay double their normal rate and stay open if they could.

[dlk001]

So Eskom would use the low grade coal? I suppose at this stage they need to just get coal whatever the price, I'm sure the mines would gladly pay double their normal rate and stay open if they could.

Interesting indeed, isn't?

Mines need power from Eskom but they would prefer to export their coal if its of export type.

Eskom needs coal from mines but can never compete with export prices.

You right, Eskom will have to buy coal at a higher price and charge the end user much more. We not only going to pay for Eskom's expansion projects, we going pay for Eskom having to buy coal at higher prices. Its such a predicament!

So, in all, even if Eskom had double the coal power stations, they still would not burn coal to their desired capacity?

[Syndyre]

Interesting indeed, isn't?

Mines need power from Eskom but they would prefer to export their coal if its of export type.

Eskom needs coal from mines but can never compete with export prices.

You right, Eskom will have to buy coal at a higher price and charge the end user much more. We not only going to pay for Eskom's expansion projects, we going pay for Eskom having to buy coal at higher prices. Its such a predicament!

So, in all, even if Eskom had double the coal power stations, they still would not burn coal to their desired capacity?

Does China and everybody else pay those prices for the coal they burn in power stations I wonder? Looks like the era of SA's cheap power is over. Nuclear's clearly the way to go, although I'm sure we'll be relying on coal for quite a while, still wouldn't be bad to end up like the French generating about 70% of your power from nukes.

Whichever way you look at it more expensive, guaranteed power is better than constantly loadshedded cheap power so I suppose they just have to pay what they need to. It'll make SA less competitive for aluminium smelters etc. but if nothing else more expensive power might make efficiency measures more economical and so there'd be less growth in demand and less expansion necessary.

[dlk001]

Does China and everybody else pay those prices for the coal they burn in power stations I wonder? Looks like the era of SA's cheap power is over. Nuclear's clearly the way to go, although I'm sure we'll be relying on coal for quite a while, still wouldn't be bad to end up like the French generating about 70% of your power from nukes. .

Good question Syndyre. Just managed to drag this article:

HONG KONG, Jan 23, 2008 (Reuters) - China has asked its coal firms to stop driving up prices and forced them to deliver all their coal to power plants in an effort to head off a power shortage in the world's second largest energy consumer.

At the request of the National Development and Reform Commission, the China Coal Transportation and Distribution Association threatened to cancel the licenses of any company that ignored the order to stabilise prices.

Its difficult to ever judge what happens in China! One thing is that they adding boom to the global warming problem!

[lsuacner]

GM said today, that it is the first time in decades that RSA had rain and therefore Eskom is not to blame, as they could not have anticipated the effects of rain on coal. lol.

[Syndyre]

GM said today, that it is the first time in decades that RSA had rain and therefore Eskom is not to blame, as they could not have anticipated the effects of rain on coal. lol.

ROFL. :D

[Syndyre]

Good question Syndyre. Just managed to drag this article:

HONG KONG, Jan 23, 2008 (Reuters) - China has asked its coal firms to stop driving up prices and forced them to deliver all their coal to power plants in an effort to head off a power shortage in the world's second largest energy consumer.

At the request of the National Development and Reform Commission, the China Coal Transportation and Distribution Association threatened to cancel the licenses of any company that ignored the order to stabilise prices.

Its difficult to ever judge what happens in China! One thing is that they adding boom to the global warming problem!

Looks like Telkom load shedded my ADSL for a while there. :D

China's price controls might be part of the problem for them it seems though:


Power executives and government statements attributed the electricity shortfall this winter to a confluence of problems. Many of the problems appear to have their roots in the government’s imposition of a long list of price controls in recent months in an attempt to tamp down inflation, which reached 6.9 percent at the consumer level in November.

Trucks did not deliver adequate coal stockpiles to power plants before winter snows arrived in northern China, partly because of nationwide diesel shortages. Refiners had cut back on the production of diesel because price controls were forcing them to sell the diesel for slightly less than the cost of the crude oil needed to make it.

Recent modest declines in world oil prices, together with government subsidies for refiners, have restored diesel supplies. Zhang Yanchao, a long-haul trucker who travels large areas of eastern China, said in a telephone interview on Wednesday that after waiting up to 10 hours at a time for diesel in November, he now finds that he can drive up to service stations and refuel immediately.

But the alleviation of diesel shortages has come too late for many power plants because heavy snows have blocked roads and rail lines in recent weeks. The official Xinhua news agency said that coal reserves at power plants were perilously low, with just 17.7 million tons in the reserves and power plants burning two million tons a day.

The snow has also felled some crucial high-power transmission lines, officials at two power companies said in telephone interviews.

The downed lines have made it harder for the operators of China’s electricity grid — really a series of poorly connected regional grids — to redistribute power to areas that need it most.

Frigid weather has also increased demand for coal for heat, driving up prices for immediate coal deliveries. That has made coal mines more reluctant to fulfill their long-term, low-cost contracts to deliver coal to power companies.

“Coal enterprises must produce and sell coal based on the law, and deliver on their responsibility to society,” the government’s powerful National Development and Reform Commission in Beijing warned in an “urgent notice” to various industries, posted on its Web site on Wednesday. Low water levels in lakes have also limited the availability of hydroelectric power, the notice said.

Low electricity tariffs, particularly for residential users, have been another problem.

The central government issued an official “suggestion” to provincial governments last fall that they not allow increases in electricity tariffs charged to customers, as part of national price controls.

Provincial governments have responded by freezing tariffs, and even reducing them in the case of Guangdong Province in southeastern China, the home of much of the country’s export-oriented light industry.

The low tariffs have made it uneconomical for oil-fired plants to operate, and many have stopped doing so.

“It makes absolutely no sense for anyone to run a diesel- or oil-fired plant. They’re all shut down,” said a power company executive in China who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of commenting on regulatory policies.

The executive added that even when ordered by the government to resume operating at a loss, many state-owned oil-fired plants had not done so, scheduling maintenance and repairs instead. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/business/worldbusiness/24power.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

Quite an interesting article.

Anyway, thanks, nice to know how it all works.:)

[extremist]

Dear Eskom and Guavamint.

Just **** you.

Thank you.

Dude, I VVSAVL (Afrikaans for FOMCL, which means it's 200% cooler).

As for the coal issue: I guess some of you watched Carte Blanche tonight? While I think of Carte Blanche as more of a tabloid/hype show than "investigative journalism" tonight's episode was... interesting.

Evidently the coal shortage isn't simply BEE's fault. It's not just the fact that existing skills were shoved out while people without experience in coal transport/supply were given the job. That's part of the problem, but South Africans always make a plan...

Carte Blanche showed an experienced coal transporter that ensured that he complied with BEE policies. Even with all his experience he was still unable to adequately supply Eskom because they simply went bankrupt. Eskom refused to pay more than R0.46 per tonne per kilometer to the middlemen who in turn payed their subcontractors 40c/T/km. It wasn't enough to make a decent living in the beginning, but with the rise in fuel prices (amongst other things) overheads far exceeded revenue resulting in many coal transporters going bust.

They showed two coal power stations, whose coal stockpiles apparently use to stand 25m high, where trucks dumped loads of coal directly onto the conveyor into station.

Another Afrikaans acronym for what's going to happen next week when all the important people at back at work: HKGK.

[Skeptik]

Here are some stills from Carte Blanche.

This is Eskom's Tutuka Power Station coal storage facility.
http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data/500/tutuka.JPG

and Majuba
http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data/500/majuba.JPG

As you can see, the coal is depleted. It should be around 25m high. Trucks are unloading directly onto the conveyor belt.

Also, the coal is out in the open (as normal) and wet coal burns BETTER than dry coal, so their excuses are simply lies.:mad:

[extremist]

Also, the coal is out in the open (as normal) and wet coal burns BETTER than dry coal, so their excuses are simply lies.:mad:

Yeah... I'm not convinced that that statement was entirely true. I'm certain that wet coal still burns, and from the little bit of reading I've done online (WikiPedia didn't prove too helpful in this case, I'm afraid) my current belief is that wet coal burns only slightly less efficiently than drier coal.

So while the statement that wet coal burns better might be false, it doesn't burn significantly worse.

[Moederloos]

Yeah... I'm not convinced that that statement was entirely true. I'm certain that wet coal still burns, and from the little bit of reading I've done online (WikiPedia didn't prove too helpful in this case, I'm afraid) my current belief is that wet coal burns only slightly less efficiently than drier coal.

So while the statement that wet coal burns better might be false, it doesn't burn significantly worse.

I reckon the truth is a combination of:

No stockpiles + bad roads = no deliveries. And I GUARANTEE that "no coal" burns significantly less well than "wet coal" :p:p

The small stockpile they DID have was in sloshy mud by the middle of the week. And, once again, I GUARANTEE that "coal" which is "50% mud" burns significantly less well than "wet coal" :p:p

[Paulr]

Yeah... I'm not convinced that that statement was entirely true. I'm certain that wet coal still burns, and from the little bit of reading I've done online (WikiPedia didn't prove too helpful in this case, I'm afraid) my current belief is that wet coal burns only slightly less efficiently than drier coal.

So while the statement that wet coal burns better might be false, it doesn't burn significantly worse.

Were not talking about someone trying to light a braai fire with wet Charka here.... :cool:

[Moederloos]

I am still sure they were scrapping coal out of the mud from what was left of their "stockpile"...

[Frankie]

Yeah... I'm not convinced that that statement was entirely true. I'm certain that wet coal still burns, and from the little bit of reading I've done online (WikiPedia didn't prove too helpful in this case, I'm afraid) my current belief is that wet coal burns only slightly less efficiently than drier coal.

So while the statement that wet coal burns better might be false, it doesn't burn significantly worse.

The coal is ground and dried in the Mills before being fed to the boilers at the specific temperature and fineness (around 75% passing 200 gauge mesh and at 100 degC).
There is a small efficiency loss with wet coal due to more heat into the Mills being required to dry and heat the coal before admission to the boiler.

Typically only the top layer of a large stock pile would be wet and this would be mixed with dry coal when the "stacker-reclaimer" scoops from the stock pile - now here there may have an issue when you no longer have a stock pile.

I hear that some Megatwatt thought he'd be clever and severed ties with the coal mines that fed coal directly by conveyor to the power plants built on the mines, choosing to buy on spot market which in turn saw a major price increase and the mines were already down-sizing at that time.

[[S.A.S]4DELTA]

all i can say is that why on earth do we HAVE TO supply power to all the neigbouring countries?? its not like we are dependant on them for anything, which they cant provide......:confused:......will we still have a crisis if we stopped 60% of the power we supply to Zim/mos/swazi/etc....???

[CathJ]

4DELTA;1477019']all i can say is that why on earth do we HAVE TO supply power to all the neigbouring countries?? its not like we are dependant on them for anything, which they cant provide......:confused:......will we still have a crisis if we stopped 60% of the power we supply to Zim/mos/swazi/etc....???

Well, we have contracts with them that will be a big deal to break - both in terms of loss of trust, and financial penalties. So it would have to be done carefully.

Also, apparently, we do import power from Moz - we export to them at times when we have an excess, and import from them when they have an excess. So if we stop exporting to them, we actually lose more power. Dunno how true that is - there's been a lot of misinformation doing the rounds lately.

[Syndyre]

Well, we have contracts with them that will be a big deal to break - both in terms of loss of trust, and financial penalties. So it would have to be done carefully.

Also, apparently, we do import power from Moz - we export to them at times when we have an excess, and import from them when they have an excess. So if we stop exporting to them, we actually lose more power. Dunno how true that is - there's been a lot of misinformation doing the rounds lately.

At this stage we need to pay the penalties and do whatever we need to to get out of them, they can't cut power to SA while providing to others, unless there's a situation like Moz where its beneficial, then cut everyone else and only supply them when we have a surplus.

[Moederloos]

Well, we have contracts with them that will be a big deal to break - both in terms of loss of trust, and financial penalties. So it would have to be done carefully.

Also, apparently, we do import power from Moz - we export to them at times when we have an excess, and import from them when they have an excess. So if we stop exporting to them, we actually lose more power. Dunno how true that is - there's been a lot of misinformation doing the rounds lately.

The ANC have a verbal contract with their voters too.

[AutoX]

Well at least we can look forward to a great future for our beloved country.....( Sarcasm)

[CathJ]

The ANC have a verbal contract with their voters too.

Absolutely. They keep on about big industry and how they have contracts and committments to supply with with electricity, but surely there's an implied committment to the general population as well?

I wasn't trying to defend their export contracts, so much as point out that they do exist and need to be dealt with carefully - but they do need to be dealt with.

[Sebs]

We're being told by the ANC that to ask for heads to roll, at this stage, would be disruptive because we need our leaders to get us out of this crisis.

Hold on a minute! It was this bunch of clueless incompetents who got us into the mess. Are we now to believe that these same idiots are going to be our knights in shining armour who have the ability to lead us out of the mess? They can't even answer a straight question about the causes of the current situation!