Gauteng's grand switch-off plan

[gregmcc]

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Power_Crisis/0,,2-7-2335_2264505,00.html


All household geysers in Gauteng will have remote switches installed as part of energy saving

Not quite sure how good an idea this is. Next thing they will want to remotely flush your toilet :)

[PeterCH]

So how will they decide to communicate to the switch to turn on or off.

NOW that is TOO much control. Ration the populance, charge extra for the power
but to tell people when they can bath or not is ridiculous. Disgusting! Way to go free
South Africa!

(bollocks)

[Gooku]

I think it is a good idea. if every geyser in the country uses only off-peak capacity.

The inconvenience involved is minimal for households , unless we have a very cold winter.
Our immediate problems (frequent load shedding ) should be over .

[Ricard]

Ripple switches have been installed for many years.. Ekhuruleni Municipality installed the one in my house 10 years ago!

[Fiekus]

surely this can NOT be seen as a good idea?? I am all for trying to save water, electricity and all that.. but this is going too far! As someone in this thread said, next they will flush our toilet or switch the tv on in the evenings only! We pay a supplier to supply and when they cant they come into our homes and install devices cause they can't keep up with demand?
:mad:

[Scooby_Doo]

well its this or load shedding pick one.

[icyrus]

well its this or load shedding pick one.

I pick neither.

[PeterCH]

Restrict people by other means. Charge a lot for going over a certain threshold and if someone abuses that cut them off temporarily or make them pay penalties proportional to their earnings. However don't control peoples' lives to the point of the Orwellian 1984.

[PeterCH]

I pick neither.

Pick a new ESKOM board.
Pick a new government.

:)

[LandyMan]

They've been doing this for quite some time. We have remote ripple switches in our estate as well ... they control it via signals over the actual electricity line IIRC

Oh, and our electricity meters are also read remotely from a central system

[timgaul]

Can't you get someone to bypass these meters? How would they know?

[timgaul]

And if you get solar heating installed, shouldn't that make you exempt?

If they do this I'm turning my geyser up to its highest level to allow me to use the minimum in hot water. Just make sure you run cold water before taking a dip :D

[Leftfoot]

Our local paper reports that Richards Bay municipality (uMhlathuze) will be installing ripple switches in our are in the next 6 months to remotely control Geysers, Airconditioners and Pool pumps.

If the bliksem touches my aircon hes a dead man. It was 43 Degrees C yesterday....add 10 degrees discomfort for humidity.....cant even tell him to go to hell, hes here already!:mad::eek:

[timgaul]

Furthermore is this government even capable of installing switches in everyones houses? Geysers are INSIDE the house, people work during the day - do you think these lazy b@st@rds would come after hours? At whose cost?

SA is incapable of putting together a working telecoms infrastructure but they want to control all these boxes across the electricity grid remotely? You CAN'T do that with robots, but you can with every flippin' household in the country? With cable theft and lack of maintenance these boxes will never work!

[Gooku]

If the bliksem touches my aircon hes a dead man. It was 43 Degrees C yesterday....add 10 degrees discomfort for humidity.....cant even tell him to go to hell, hes here already!:mad::eek:

:) remember Eskom is a business , they need to supply to make money, they will not switch off our appliances
unnecessarily .I think remote switch-off only occurs when over-loading is likely to happen, in that case we have no power for every electrical equipment anyway.

`

[aadil]

well its this or load shedding pick one.

It's not a choice of either one. Even if this is implemented, we have no guarantee that they won't load shed.

I've made this point before but I'll say it again, if Households make up only 12 of total usage, and we're so drstically short of power, how is this going to solve the problem (same with solar powered geysers).

It is irresponsible for the Gauteng municipality so say if they implement this than they won't have to load shed. I guarantee they will still load shed.

Sure we all need to do our bit, but unless the mines and big industry find ways of reducing/saving 5 to 10 %, we're in serious trouble for the next 5 years at least

[LabAnimal]

there's 3 things i'm doing. Work my a$$ off, Save money & prepair to leave the country before the money i've saved is worth nothing!

I don't see SA pulling itself together anytime soon, there's alot worse coming!

[aadil]

there's 3 things i'm doing. Work my a$$ off, Save money & prepair to leave the country before the money i've saved is worth nothing!

I don't see SA pulling itself together anytime soon, there's alot worse coming!

i have to agree. uncertain times ahead.

[Moederloos]

there's 3 things i'm doing. Work my a$$ off, Save money & prepair to leave the country before the money i've saved is worth nothing!

I don't see SA pulling itself together anytime soon, there's alot worse coming!

Join the boat.
It's a race now between tying up our affairs here, and our money being worth nothing.


As for the ripple switches - no problem with them.
We have had them for years - one never even notices them doing their thing unless they break - which they do.

[Arko2]

Why use geysers at all. I don't know the name for it
in englisch, but it is called in German "Durchlauferhitzer"
Maybe a long word but it uses between 4 to 8 KW has the
size of w20cm-d15cm-h50cm. You can have it on 4 or 8
KW with a switch. Only switching on if the tap is on
If Eskom replaces all Geysers it would be much cheaper
then to lay cables to all the households. I don't know
if it works for 82 Million people why not here?

[CathJ]

As for the ripple switches - no problem with them.
We have had them for years - one never even notices them doing their thing unless they break - which they do.

I think that ripple switches, as currently used, are probably okay (except, as you say, when they break).

The problem is the potential is there for abuse. They're initially used to prevent load shedding, i.e. in extreme cases; then they start using them in less extreme cases.

Plus, as someone pointed out, how much is it actually going to save overall?

[Moederloos]

I think that ripple switches, as currently used, are probably okay (except, as you say, when they break).

The problem is the potential is there for abuse. They're initially used to prevent load shedding, i.e. in extreme cases; then they start using them in less extreme cases.

Plus, as someone pointed out, how much is it actually going to save overall?

It saves nothing overall - it just spreads the load a bit.
But, as you said - the potential for abuse is high.

[Peter_J]

Beware of these. In the 80's the JHB municipality installed one of these on the DB board of our house. The missus came home after work one day to find the wooden door on the DB board burning like mad, and a couple of the roofbeams ( eaves ) alight, the cupboard on the inside in the bedroom belching smoke. Thankfully she managed to put it out with sand. It was the municipality's device that had caught fire. I won't have one now.

[timgaul]

Beware of these. In the 80's the JHB municipality installed one of these on the DB board of our house. The missus came home after work one day to find the wooden door on the DB board burning like mad, and a couple of the roofbeams ( eaves ) alight, the cupboard on the inside in the bedroom belching smoke. Thankfully she managed to put it out with sand. It was the municipality's device that had caught fire. I won't have one now.

There's a great idea! Thanks. If I ever have one of these installed, I'm going to set it on fire and blame it on an electrical malfunction! :D

[Gooku]

Beware of these. In the 80's the JHB municipality installed one of these on the DB board of our house. The missus came home after work one day to find the wooden door on the DB board burning like mad, and a couple of the roofbeams ( eaves ) alight, the cupboard on the inside in the bedroom belching smoke. Thankfully she managed to put it out with sand. It was the municipality's device that had caught fire. I won't have one now.

Technology has improved by big strides,since 80's....

Authorities do have to make sure remote switch device pass strict safety & reliability tests (preferably done by SABS) before mass installations take place.

[Peter_J]

Technology has improved with big strides,since 80's....

Authorities do have to make sure remote switch device pass strict safety & reliability tests (preferably done by SABS) before mass roll out.

These were all "approved". But never mind - you go for it.

[Gooku]

These were all "approved". But never mind - you go for it.

Sure ,I will get one.

My geyser is on for +- 3 housr a day anyway.11h00 (late night ) to 02h00 ,if I have the device ,I do not need to switch it manually anymore. works for me fine .

[Moederloos]

Sigh - I have had a ripple switch for most of my adult life.
Never spontaneously combusted yet.

A portable phone could catch fire if installed wrong.

Out of all the myriad of stupid ideas this guavamint has come up with, ripple switches are about the only one I favour.

[Peter_J]

Sure ,I will get one.

Why not let this bunch install it for you - they seem quite competent:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=86116

[killadoob]

So how will they decide to communicate to the switch to turn on or off.

NOW that is TOO much control. Ration the populance, charge extra for the power
but to tell people when they can bath or not is ridiculous. Disgusting! Way to go free
South Africa!

(bollocks)

to be honest i would rather have a cold shower and know my business will run from 8 to 5

im sorry but not having hot water is managable

not having power and not being able to work for 3 hours a day is money and clients lost

bring it on!!!!!!!!

[Moederloos]

to be honest i would rather have a cold shower and know my business will run from 8 to 5

im sorry but not having hot water is managable

not having power and not being able to work for 3 hours a day is money and clients lost

bring it on!!!!!!!!

We get shed at home a LOT less than the neighbouring suburb with no ripple switches.
I reckon they look at us, say - OK - geysers will give us 50MW from there - that is their contribution, oops - Area B has no ripples, going to have to cut them off altogether... Area C... hmmm.

[timgaul]

to be honest i would rather have a cold shower and know my business will run from 8 to 5

im sorry but not having hot water is managable

not having power and not being able to work for 3 hours a day is money and clients lost

bring it on!!!!!!!!

And therein lies the problem... this country is compromising already. Ag, a cold shower isn't bad. What, okay, no TV 2 times a week isn't bad. Hmmm... all traffic lights out isn't bad, I still get to work eventually. South Africans are terrible at just giving up! Why should we give up the luxuries we work hard for! Screw the government we should be lining the streets in protest. If this were a Scandanavian country there would be riots!

[Gooku]

And therein lies the problem... this country is compromising already. Ag, a cold shower isn't bad. What, okay, no TV 2 times a week isn't bad. Hmmm... all traffic lights out isn't bad, I still get to work eventually. South Africans are terrible at just giving up! Why should we give up the luxuries we work hard for! Screw the government we should be lining the streets in protest. If this were a Scandanavian country there would be riots!

GOV is bring on a workable solution(remote switch) to fix above mentioned problems.

We just need to take part in that solution.

[Moederloos]

GOV is bring on a workable solution(remote switch) to fix above mentioned problems.

We just need to take part of that solution.

As much as I loathe and detest guavamint, this one measure I support.
It is workable, and it does work.

Just hope it is not abused.

[timgaul]

As much as I loathe and detest guavamint, this one measure I support.
It is workable, and it does work.

Just hope it is not abused.

Do me favour. Go to the window. What continent do you see outside?

[killadoob]

And therein lies the problem... this country is compromising already. Ag, a cold shower isn't bad. What, okay, no TV 2 times a week isn't bad. Hmmm... all traffic lights out isn't bad, I still get to work eventually. South Africans are terrible at just giving up! Why should we give up the luxuries we work hard for! Screw the government we should be lining the streets in protest. If this were a Scandanavian country there would be riots!

tim im not sure if you know this

WE HAVE A MASSIVE POWER SHORTAGE

this is not going to happen or might happen, its happened

all we do is moan like little girls about how this is not right and we should not have to do this and that but at the end of the day we have power shortages and need to find a way to resolve this issue

maybe loosing 3 hours a day does not effect as much as some companies who cannot run without power

im sure the billions of rand that have been lost due to these power outages would also disagree with you

i guess that having hot water, bitching moaning crying like little girls is better than finding a solution

yes tim lets go made and riot, thats sure going to solve our problem

luxaries vs billions of rand and business coming a grind everyday

yes luxaries it is

nothing like watching the country go to the dogs while taking a hot shower and enjoying your LUXURIES

[Moederloos]

Do me favour. Go to the window. What continent do you see outside?

I know, I know....
But what else can we do?
As I have said - we get load shedded a lot less than we should be - and I reckon they are turning off our geysers when our turn comes along.

[timgaul]

GOV is bring on a workable solution(remote switch) to fix above mentioned problems.

We just need to take part of that solution.

But cold showers? Why should I compromise my lifestyle for someone else's bugger up? We must continue to tighten the thumbscrews on government, until they purge those responsible. Only then will we have people who can give us viable alternatives - I don't want to be preached to by the same ijot who created this situation.

How can a deputy minister be fired for taking an unauthorised trip, yet several ministers (and a certain vice-president) keep their jobs despite plunging SA into the worst crisis since the end of Apartheid!

Yes, we will accept workable solutions. But no! We will not compromise. If this affects us adversely we must continue protesting! Don't accept, we've done too much of that already!

[timgaul]

I know, I know....
But what else can we do?
As I have said - we get load shedded a lot less than we should be - and I reckon they are turning off our geysers when our turn comes along.

We don't get loadshedded, and we don't turn off our geysers.

By the way, when all the geysers suddenly come back on that section of the grid is going to experience some serious overloading.

[CathJ]

tim im not sure if you know this

WE HAVE A MASSIVE POWER SHORTAGE

this is not going to happen or might happen, its happened

all we do is moan like little girls about how this is not right and we should not have to do this and that but at the end of the day we have power shortages and need to find a way to resolve this issue

maybe loosing 3 hours a day does not effect as much as some companies who cannot run without power

im sure the billions of rand that have been lost due to these power outages would also disagree with you

i guess that having hot water, bitching moaning crying like little girls is better than finding a solution

yes tim lets go made and riot, thats sure going to solve our problem

luxaries vs billions of rand and business coming a grind everyday

yes luxaries it is

nothing like watching the country go to the dogs while taking a hot shower and enjoying your LUXURIES

I get what you're saying, I really do. We're in this mess, as much as we shouldn't be, and we have to find a way out.

But I still feel we should do it kicking and screaming. When we start getting complacent, and start thinking of a hot shower as a luxury, that's when we forget it was supposed to be temporary, and it just becomes normal. We forget that we're supposed to be finding a way out.

I'm not saying don't save electricity. I'm saying save where you can, but complain about it constantly.

[Gooku]

But cold showers? Why should I compromise my lifestyle for someone else's bugger up? We must continue to tighten the thumbscrews on government, until they purge those responsible. Only then will we have people who can give us viable alternatives - I don't want to be preached to by the same ijot who created this situation.

How can a deputy minister be fired for taking an unauthorised trip, yet several ministers (and a certain vice-president) keep their jobs despite plunging SA into the worst crisis since the end of Apartheid!

Yes, we will accept workable solutions. But no! We will not compromise. If this affects us adversely we must continue protesting! Don't accept, we've done too much of that already!

My geyser is on for only +- 3 hours a day , I have never run out of hot water .

Adverse effect for me is none (summer )or minimal (maybe a very cold winter).

You should test it too.

[icyrus]

Why should South African consumers alter their lifestyle while those who are responsible for this situation don't face any consequences for their incompetence? Why should South African consumers alter their lifestyles while those responsible for this current situation continue to make it worse through their continued incompetence?

[timgaul]

Why should South African consumers alter their lifestyle while those who are responsible for this situation don't face any consequences for their incompetence?


Exactly!

[timgaul]

I get what you're saying, I really do. We're in this mess, as much as we shouldn't be, and we have to find a way out.

But I still feel we should do it kicking and screaming. When we start getting complacent, and start thinking of a hot shower as a luxury, that's when we forget it was supposed to be temporary, and it just becomes normal. We forget that we're supposed to be finding a way out.

I'm not saying don't save electricity. I'm saying save where you can, but complain about it constantly.

QFT.

[timgaul]

My geyser is on for only +- 3 hours a day , I have never run out of hot water .

Adverse effect for me is none (summer )or minimal (maybe a very cold winter).

You should test it too.

I go to work in the morning, lets say 7pm. If I need to go home (especially in winter) and take a shower and run off, I want it to be warm. What if I go to dinner after work, only getting home at 11pm - I want a warm bath.

I will complain, we all must. Not to do so is an admission that we've accepted our fate. We have not! We may put certain measures in place, but I will continue to complain about the fact that I had to in the first place. Only in this way will we draw attention to the fact that we are still not happy about the situation and still unwilling to accept it. Hopefully that will lend some haste to finding more amicable solutions!

[timgaul]

all we do is moan like little girls about how this is not right and we should not have to do this and that but at the end of the day we have power shortages and need to find a way to resolve this issue


If we don't do so the government is going to accept the situation as the status quo. Oh, they're not complaining, our job is done. And we will continue to suffer indefinitely. The fraction of the market that makes up the domestic consumers is minimal compared to industry. I don't use a heater in winter, I don't use an airconditioner in summer. Switching off my geyser every now and then is hardly going to reduce my consumption. Unless the government targets big industry (including mines) there is no real solution.

[Gooku]

Some people just do not want problems solved , hence the reason to moan.

We do find people of that creed in every corner of the world ,just hope it is in small numbers in SA.

[gdiza]

How much do you think it would cost to install one ?

[Gooku]

I am not sure , I think it should be paid by GOV (or at least mostly subsidized )

.

[timgaul]

Some people just do not want problems solved , hence the reason to moan.

We do find people of that creed in every corner of the world ,just hope it is in small numbers in SA.

Hey, we want it solved that is why we moan. These interim solutions must be just that: temporary. And we should not let the government forget it either.

[gdiza]

I am not sure , I think it should be paid by GOV (or at least mostly subsidized )

.

Could someone maybe find out?
I would do it myself, but I'm having deadline so I can't really sit on the phone... I would appreciate it - if not... ag well.

[Gooku]

Could someone maybe find out?
I would do it myself, but I'm having deadline so I can't really sit on the phone... I would appreciate it - if not... ag well.

The media people will find out soon , they always do

[timgaul]

If they insist on someone installing it for you? Geysers are mostly inside the house, how can they expect everyone to be there during working hours???

[killadoob]

Why should South African consumers alter their lifestyle while those who are responsible for this situation don't face any consequences for their incompetence? Why should South African consumers alter their lifestyles while those responsible for this current situation continue to make it worse through their continued incompetence?


your all looking at it the wrong way

your asking why should we

im telling you we have no choice

i think you all need to face the fact and reality that this is happening and we need to help fix it

its a south African mentality to say why should we help instead of how can we help

if we dont all work together we will continue to have blacksout

if bitching could create electricity we would all power the entire universe but alas bitching does not lead to power, nor does it solve the problem

anyways continue to moan and complain and not help the situation

all this moaning and blaming will eventually generate the power need :)

[timgaul]

your all looking at it the wrong way

your asking why should we

im telling you we have no choice

i think you all need to face the fact and reality that this is happening and we need to help fix it


It think we are past that point. We have kinda realised there is a problem :/



its a south African mentality to say why should we help instead of how can we help

if we dont all work together we will continue to have blacks and no amount of bitching is going to generate power

Continually complaining is going to speed up the process to a permanent solution. All you're talking about is a temporary fix. That is merely taping over the ugly bits. Its gonna break again and we're gonna be out of tape.

By complaining the government will speed up actions (especially regarding their own unique brand of red tape) to ensure proper future-proof solutions are put in place eventually.

If you stop complaining then you've given up. If you've given up you've doomed us to becoming just another African state.

[timgaul]

Once again: domestic electricity consumption is a mere fraction of the consumption as a whole! Changing light bulbs and ripple switches will buy us a year or two at most. This is the African mentality of fix it when its broken, don't try to stop it breaking. The real long-term solutions are more power generation, and that is why we need to put pressure on the government.

[jsxza]

And therein lies the problem... this country is compromising already. Ag, a cold shower isn't bad. What, okay, no TV 2 times a week isn't bad. Hmmm... all traffic lights out isn't bad, I still get to work eventually. South Africans are terrible at just giving up! Why should we give up the luxuries we work hard for! Screw the government we should be lining the streets in protest. If this were a Scandanavian country there would be riots!

I completely agree with you. Same with the crime situation... Oh well got hijacked at gunpoint today but thankfully the dear gentleman decided to spare my life. They are my new heroes for being so kind and thoughtful!! :sick:

I have no problem with the gov implementing workarounds till they get the problem sorted but these pricks are not welcome in my home. They will not be allowed access to my premises.

[icyrus]

your all looking at it the wrong way

your asking why should we

im telling you we have no choice

i think you all need to face the fact and reality that this is happening and we need to help fix it

its a south African mentality to say why should we help instead of how can we help

if we dont all work together we will continue to have blacksout

if bitching could create electricity we would all power the entire universe but alas bitching does not lead to power, nor does it solve the problem

anyways continue to moan and complain and not help the situation

all this moaning and blaming will eventually generate the power need :)

No accepting governments bull**** and saying "thank you sir, may I please have another" is a surefire way to seal South Africa's doom.

The reason our government think they can get away with stunts like these is because past experience has taught them that they can.

The problem is not enough people complain. Not enough people demand accountability from the government. At this stage the government is technically still a civil service and we need to let them know that we haven't forgotten that they exist to serve us.

The reality of the current situation is that were are in a very bad situation courtesy of our idiot government and their even more idiotic policies. Residential power conservation may help ameliorate the situation for a little while, but while we sit with the same idiots in charge making the same stupid decisions the end result is that we just put off the inevitable.

The truth is that the average residential person has zero influence over our governments thinking, so by rolling over today we can keep those who do have influence in power and quiet, all the while the problems escalate.

What happens in winter when the meager savings of these ridiculous schemes can no longer keep the grid from falling over again? Will it be ok then when government declares that for business to carry on as usual, residences will be without power for weeks at a time?

The only people who can influence the government's actions are the big industries so it is absolutely imperative that they feel the pinch now most of all

[timgaul]

I completely agree with you. Same with the crime situation... Oh well got hijacked at gunpoint today but thankfully the dear gentleman decided to spare my life. They are my new heroes for being so kind and thoughtful!! :sick:

I have no problem with the gov implementing workarounds till they get the problem sorted but these pricks are not welcome in my home. They will not be allowed access to my premises.

QFT

[killadoob]

well with everyone enjoying their luxuries thinking that they dont need to care its the government problem, come winter all hell is going to break loose

u think power shedding is bad now, wait for winter to see how many of your luxuries will work for more than 3 hours a day

[Moederloos]

well with everyone enjoying their luxuries thinking that they dont need to care its the government problem, come winter all hell is going to break loose

u think power shedding is bad now, wait for winter to see how many of your luxuries will work for more than 3 hours a day

It does not rain in winter up North - so no wet coal... :rolleyes:

[CathJ]

well with everyone enjoying their luxuries thinking that they dont need to care its the government problem, come winter all hell is going to break loose

u think power shedding is bad now, wait for winter to see how many of your luxuries will work for more than 3 hours a day

Again: we shouldn't be thinking of these things as luxuries.

But you're assuming that because we complain, we're not doing anything. I think we all accept that there is an issue, and it's not going to be magically solved overnight (even if the government got themselves into gear). We're just saying keep complaining; keep focus on the problem; and keep focus on the the big savings that could be made rather than the tiny savings we're making by turning off lights etc. (again, not saying that those tiny savings don't help, but they alone are not going to solve the problem).

[timgaul]

Again: we shouldn't be thinking of these things as luxuries.

But you're assuming that because we complain, we're not doing anything. I think we all accept that there is an issue, and it's not going to be magically solved overnight (even if the government got themselves into gear).

Exactly. We're doing our bit, but we're not fooled into thinking if I change my light bulbs and turn off my geyser this loadshedding is going to stop. Electricity and hot water is not a luxury it is a right, but the government would have us believe otherwise; that is what we should be arguing, the complacency and speed with which we accept that on this continent.


We're just saying keep complaining; keep focus on the problem; and keep focus on the the big savings that could be made rather than the tiny savings we're making by turning off lights etc. (again, not saying that those tiny savings don't help, but they alone are not going to solve the problem).

Thats the point. Its up to the government to really give a permanent solution. Go ahead, turn off your geysers, replace your bulbs - you're still going to be loadshedded because it is not going to solve this crisis, they are VERY temporary measures which might get us through the summer. Domestic consumers are a small part of the consumption.

Don't, come winter, start complaining: "boohoo, I did everything I was asked, why was I still loadshedded?" Why? Because cutting back on domestic use alone is barely going to help.

[SecretCode]

Not quite sure how good an idea this is. Next thing they will want to remotely flush your toilet :)

And remotely tell you what time to go to bed ...

[Gooku]

How much do you think it would cost to install one ?

SABC says GOV & Eskom will cover the installation costs

[Keith]

well with everyone enjoying their luxuries thinking that they dont need to care its the government problem, come winter all hell is going to break loose

u think power shedding is bad now, wait for winter to see how many of your luxuries will work for more than 3 hours a day

From reading your comments in particular, I hope you're not implying that people who complain are the ones that are abusing their electrical consumption on luxuries and are not trying to save because that's exactly the feeling I'm getting.

There are many people out there that are currently (and have been) doing everything possible to reduce consumption (i.e. turning off outside lights and geysers and turning off the TV or lights or appliances when not in use), and yes, we still 'moan'. You can ascribe the pathetic levels of customer service we currently experience to consumer apathy. South Africans are too complacent and accept the norm too easily.

If we protest against the powers that be and act at the same time, this country might get somewhere; and we've seen this in action during the 'struggle'. If it worked against the previous government with regards to apartheid, why should it not work against the current government (and every government to come) with regards to service delivery.

[Moederloos]

If it worked against the previous government with regards to apartheid, why should it not work against the current government (and every government to come) with regards to service delivery.

Numbers. Plain and simple.

[Keith]

I actually feel that the current situation affects more people than during the 'struggle'; it will ultimately affect every last South African, even the poorest of poor, whereas during the 'struggle' apathy was prevalent in many communities.

[timgaul]

Numbers. Plain and simple.

We can accept that it is a numbers game. If so, there are more numbers to draw their workforce from. More employees should be put in place because of more money being earned by more numbers. Numbers is a consequence but it is also the answer.

Lacking planning is the cause. Poor mananagement and little foresight. 15 years is enough time to increase whatever workforce, and subsequently whatever infrastructure is necessary to cater towards these increased numbers.

So no, numbers is not the cause, but merely the catalyst for a situation that should have been easily remedied. It is also the solution to the problem.

[Moederloos]

We can accept that it is a numbers game. If so, there are more numbers to draw their workforce from. More employees should be put in place because of more money being earned by more numbers. Numbers is a consequence but it is also the answer.

Lacking planning is the cause. Poor mananagement and little foresight. 15 years is enough time to increase whatever workforce, and subsequently whatever infrastructure is necessary to cater towards these increased numbers.

So no, numbers is not the cause, but merely the catalyst for a situation that should have been easily remedied. It is also the solution to the problem.

You misunderstood.
I meant that the ANC will win, regardless of any "protest" because they have the numbers.

[timgaul]

You misunderstood.
I meant that the ANC will win, regardless of any "protest" because they have the numbers.

Oh, sorry. Cool, thats a given. Lets hope this Mbeki/Zuma split happens sooner than later.

[Moederloos]

Oh, sorry. Cool, thats a given. Lets hope this Mbeki/Zuma split happens sooner than later.

The analogy: "Would you rather be mauled to death by a bear, or eaten by a crocodile" comes to mind... :D