The White Lane (Motorbike question):

[Waaib]

Hope this is in the correct part of the forum.

Sometimes I'm blessed to have 1 hour of peace and quiet in the mornings. This involves sitting in my car in 3 lanes of traffic as I travel between my home and place of work.

I notice that most bikers use the white lane between the middle and right lane (a.k.a fast lane) to move between the cars but occasionally one comes flying through traffic between the middle and left lane. This normally gives me a fright as anything unexpected in traffic in Cape Town typically results in screeching tyres and broken tail lights.

I'm wondering if there are any unwritten rules or bike etiquette that non-bikers should know about to help us be more aware of bikes. Most use the right hand white lane. Are the ones using the left hand white lane out of line?

[thisgeek]

Here in Joburg they use any which lane they damn well please, even going so far as to use the emergency lane... although that is rare.

While I'm usually very conscientious of bikers, some of them are really beginning to annoy me because they ride at high speed between lanes of cars in bumper to bumper traffic. They don't give a toss if you're trying to change lanes or not, even if you've been indicating for 10 minutes trying to get into a gap in the lane next to you, but have to stop because the tosser bikers are approaching at 100 with no signs of slowing down to allow you to change lanes.

Sorry, I'm a bit annoyed by this, as I missed three gaps in a row last night on the way home because of fscking bikers.

[xrapidx]

I'm actually starting to get annoyed with bikers....

[Pitbull]

You have one of 2 choices.

Either make space for them, or they kick off your Mirror. ;)
I always make space for them as one can see them coming from miles away, it's just being curtious and sure as hell saves me alot of stress.

When on the bike you will be amazed at how many people driving on the highway is aware of bikers. I was driving down the N14 at about 200km/h and even before I come close to the cars they move a little to the right and/or left still in their own lane and I can pass without even dropping the throttle back a bit. Then you get the bastards who try and be funny and close you off. These are the fools who have to have their mirrors replaced :D

[Deenem]

Interesting, I'm a biker and I've never thought about that.

I guess we do see a three-lane parking lot (like N1 in Joburg) as a two-lane highway for us. It just quite difficult to move from the right to the left lane with all those parked cars in the way ;-)

I guess, most bikers will keep to the right lane for two reasosn
1) their speed relative to the cars is lower, so that make it easier to react quickly if a car decidews to swerve in front of you
2) you get more cars swerving suddenly from the middle lane to the left lane to make an exit, usually the cars in the right lane, stay in the right lane, they've got a long way to go before they exit.

The biggest danger for bikers is people changing lanes without looking behind them, also idiots (usually passengers) who decide to get out of their cars while they're still parked on the highway :-(

One thing you should be aware of is that biker tend to bunch together, so if one bike comes past there's a good chance a few more are behind him. Often a bike will go past and straight after the car will decide to change lanes without checking if there's another bike behind him.

[xrapidx]

If a guy kicked off my Hilux mirror I'd accidently get a fright and squash him before he's part me.

[Highflyer_GP]

Here in Joburg they use any which lane they damn well please, even going so far as to use the emergency lane... although that is rare.

While I'm usually very conscientious of bikers, some of them are really beginning to annoy me because they ride at high speed between lanes of cars in bumper to bumper traffic. They don't give a toss if you're trying to change lanes or not, even if you've been indicating for 10 minutes trying to get into a gap in the lane next to you, but have to stop because the tosser bikers are approaching at 100 with no signs of slowing down to allow you to change lanes.

Sorry, I'm a bit annoyed by this, as I missed three gaps in a row last night on the way home because of fscking bikers.
Yup same here. And I'm pretty sure that it's a punishable offence not to travel in a particular lane. Imagine a car travelling inbetween two lanes!

The other day this biker dude couldn't fit into a gap because the bakkie in front of him couldn't move a little to the right to give him way (because even though he tried to, there was no space since there was a car immediately in front of him). Anyway when traffic moved a little again, this prick had the audacity to stop next to the bakkie and punch his window before speeding off!

Anyway I try to be curteous where I can, but it would be nice on the biker's part if they can acknowledge it sometimes. They shouldn't have this attitude that we're expected to make way for them.

[Waaib]

Yup same here. And I'm pretty sure that it's a punishable offence not to travel in a particular lane. Imagine a car travelling inbetween two lanes!...

I heard it discussed on the radio. It's not illegal according to the traffic official they had on.


One thing you should be aware of is that biker tend to bunch together, so if one bike comes past there's a good chance a few more are behind him. Often a bike will go past and straight after the car will decide to change lanes without checking if there's another bike behind him.

I saw a guy get knocked off his bike in exactly this situation a year or two ago in JHB. The driver of the car was more shaken up than the biker though and seemed to be having a panic attack by the time the paramedics arrived. Biker wasn't hurt. Lots of bits of the bike broke off though.

[thisgeek]

Don't get me wrong, if I see a bike coming, I give him space, whether it's warranted or not. I'm not one of those people who refuse to let people in to the lane either - unless it's a taxi or someone driving like a **nt. If I see someone indicate to join the lane, I will gladly give them space - because I would expect the same courtesy. I'm a very calm and cautious driver, but I get annoyed when someone thinks that they own the road and can do what they want.

[waynegohl]

i ride a bike and it irrates me when i see bikers speeding down the road and swerving in and out of traffic. when i drive i stay behind the car in front and wait my turn, granted i am not a saint and i do drive fast but no where near the speeds some guys on their bikes drive. i even had a old man get out his car in front of me (we were waiting at a robot) and he offered me a sweet and thanked me for driving so well. needless to say i k@k'ed myself when he came to me in the traffic as i thought i had done something wrong.

[Nod]

On the N1 between the N4 and Rigel, the N1 is not straight with lots of hills and valleys. Seeing 4 cars behind you is a mission, so you really don't see bikes until they are right next to you. And, maybe because the noise from the bikes are directed backwards, you don't hear them either.

[ColinR]

i even had a old man get out his car in front of me (we were waiting at a robot) and he offered me a sweet

:eek:

[GavinMannion]

Anyway I try to be curteous where I can, but it would be nice on the biker's part if they can acknowledge it sometimes. They shouldn't have this attitude that we're expected to make way for them.

I always try to acknowledge the few people who move but it isn't the easiest thing to do.

In slow traffic I need to keep both hands on the bike because people appear out of nowhere.


Don't get me wrong, if I see a bike coming, I give him space, whether it's warranted or not. I'm not one of those people who refuse to let people in to the lane either - unless it's a taxi or someone driving like a **nt. If I see someone indicate to join the lane, I will gladly give them space - because I would expect the same courtesy. I'm a very calm and cautious driver, but I get annoyed when someone thinks that they own the road and can do what they want.

People refusing to allow other people into a lane really annoys the crap out of me, it causes a ripple effect which then causes jams and accidents...

I have noticed the latest craze is a refusal to allow taxi's into lanes and then when they start pushing people get all whiny...

If you see a taxi with his indicator on trying to get into your lane please let him in,

[CathJ]

People refusing to allow other people into a lane really annoys the crap out of me, it causes a ripple effect which then causes jams and accidents...

I have noticed the latest craze is a refusal to allow taxi's into lanes and then when they start pushing people get all whiny...

If you see a taxi with his indicator on trying to get into your lane please let him in,

I try to reward good taxi behaviour by letting them in if they put their indicator on, and move across in an orderly manner. I try not to let them in if they just swerve across at the last minute.

Kind of like training a dog by giving him a treat every time he does what you want.

[noxibox]

While I'm usually very conscientious of bikers, some of them are really beginning to annoy me because they ride at high speed between lanes of cars in bumper to bumper traffic. They don't give a toss if you're trying to change lanes or not, even if you've been indicating for 10 minutes trying to get into a gap in the lane next to you, but have to stop because the tosser bikers are approaching at 100 with no signs of slowing down to allow you to change lanes.
Motorcyclists have no reason to have any regard for motorists because motorists have typically shown total disregard for them. They tend to develop an attitude because they're vulnerable.

If the traffic is stationary or near-stationary it is fairly safe to travel at a good speed between the cars. Once you've indicated to change lanes you have to gauge whether you have enough time to move across. What about the motorists in the other lane that are not waiting a few extra seconds, so you can get over? Do you really need to be lane-hopping?

[noxibox]

when i drive i stay behind the car in front and wait my turn
That's just silly.

[chiskop]

Last night I was on the M1 N during rush hour, traffic was stop-start. Near the Glenhove off-ramp I was in the middle lane, with an SLK on my right. Some chop on a motorbike zips through between us, clipping the SLK as he goes past. The motorbike's right mirror pops off. The SLK driver had been SMSing and had no warning - looks up to see the motorbike disappear into the distance. We look at each other and shake our heads in general disgust at the type of person who would even stop.

Some 30-40 min later, I'm in Morningside, near the Morningside Virgin Active (ie, well off the freeway). I see a motorbike, same colour, same general style as the one earlier, and see its missing its right mirror.

So I pull up next to the guy and enquire politely whether he lost a mirror on the freeway.

Chop on bike: Err, yes.
Me: Did you see what you did to that Merc! :eek:
CoB: But, but the damage was all to my bike.
Me: You didn't stop. You didn't turn round to even look.
Cob: I couldn't, there was traffic.
Me: It's considered traditional to stop when you hit somebody's car.
CoB: B bb bbb bbbut
Me: I think you're a very disappointing person. :mad:

(There wasn't any damage to the merc, but he had no way of knowing that.)

[CathJ]

Last night I was on the M1 N during rush hour, traffic was stop-start. Near the Glenhove off-ramp I was in the middle lane, with an SLK on my right. Some chop on a motorbike zips through between us, clipping the SLK as he goes past. The motorbike's right mirror pops off. The SLK driver had been SMSing and had no warning - looks up to see the motorbike disappear into the distance. We look at each other and shake our heads in general disgust at the type of person who would even stop.

Some 30-40 min later, I'm in Morningside, near the Morningside Virgin Active (ie, well off the freeway). I see a motorbike, same colour, same general style as the one earlier, and see its missing its right mirror.

So I pull up next to the guy and enquire politely whether he lost a mirror on the freeway.

Chop on bike: Err, yes.
Me: Did you see what you did to that Merc! :eek:
CoB: But, but the damage was all to my bike.
Me: You didn't stop. You didn't turn round to even look.
Cob: I couldn't, there was traffic.
Me: It's considered traditional to stop when you hit somebody's car.
CoB: B bb bbb bbbut
Me: I think you're a very disappointing person. :mad:

(There wasn't any damage to the merc, but he had no way of knowing that.)

Maybe if he'd been concentrating on driving rather than SMSsing, he would have had some warning?

But yes, the bike was still wrong not to stop.

[chiskop]

Maybe if he'd been concentrating on driving rather than SMSsing, he would have had some warning?

But yes, the bike was still wrong not to stop.

His car was stationary and correctly aligned in his lane. What could he have done?

The SLK driver, as much as I hate those guys in general, was not at all at fault.

[milomak]

disappointing driver :D

[TKD01]

If you see a taxi with his indicator on trying to get into your lane please let him in

Indicator or not - that spineless bastard is not going to get in front of me! He's anyway just gonna slam brakes again a few meters further to offload passengers in the middle of the road. So what's the use? :mad:

[thisgeek]

If you see a taxi with his indicator on trying to get into your lane please let him in,

Actually, I do. I let one in this morning, in fact. If he's driving like a human being, then I have no problems, but if I see the dumb ..... coming up the emergency lane and trying to pull in, then he can get screwed.

[chiskop]

Actually, I do. I let one in this morning, in fact. If he's driving like a human being, then I have no problems, but if I see the dumb ..... coming up the emergency lane and trying to pull in, then he can get screwed.

Agreed, and that goes for taxis, bmw's or anyone else.

Drive like a person and respect other road-users, and I'll be polite in return.
Drive aggressively and try to force your way in - you've got no chance with me.

[CathJ]

His car was stationary and correctly aligned in his lane. What could he have done?

The SLK driver, as much as I hate those guys in general, was not at all at fault.

I dunno what he could have done - you were the one who said he had no warning :) But yeah, he wasn't at fault in this case; although he still shouldn't have been SMSsing while driving.

[dam]

The SLK driver, as much as I hate those guys in general, was not at all at fault.

I hate them too, bloody bastards :D

[faust]

Get out of your cars and onto bikes, then you would not have to sit 2 -3 hours a day in traffic..

[Paul_S]

On the N1 between the N4 and Rigel, the N1 is not straight with lots of hills and valleys. Seeing 4 cars behind you is a mission, so you really don't see bikes until they are right next to you. And, maybe because the noise from the bikes are directed backwards, you don't hear them either.

I noticed the same thing last week while I was driving.
There was a 4x4 on my tail and I couldn't see more than about 30 meters down the white line in my side or rear view mirrors. I had to change lanes and prayed that there were no bikes on the way.

I really, really dislike 4x4s and SUVs mainly because they obstruct my view while driving. Being able to see other vehicle's brake lights through or around cars in front helps to anticipate hard braking but with a large vehicle in front you have no clue when you're going to need to jump on the brakes.

On Wednesday I come freaking close to writing off my car and a Polo in front of me because of a biker. I needed to change lanes and knew from a previous check that there was a biker behind me somewhere riding between the lanes so I checked and saw him and then checked again to judge his speed but in the mean time the cars in front had come to a complete stop and I was still doing about 60km/h.
I whipped the steering wheel to the left and missed a Polo by a few centimeters.
If I didn't have to worry about bikes riding a lot faster than the traffic between the lanes I would have been fine.

I look out for bikes but some of the riders are putting motorists at risk of accidents due to their actions.

[Garyvdh]

Actually I am 99% sure that the law says that ANY vehicle on the road, no matter two, three or four wheels is supposed to travel in a forward direction in the MIDDLE of the lane and should only move out of the middle of the lane when they intend to overtake the vehicle in the front of them. Overtaking involves moving into the next lane when it is clear to do so and proceeding back into the middle of the original lane.

Just because the traffic officials TOLERATE it, does not mean it is legal or proper driving behaviour. The reason why it is illegal to drive on the dotted or solid white line is that you become vulnerable to cross moving traffic and you become invisible because you are driving in people's blind spot.

Almost ALL motorcyclists do it, because it is easy and faster to drive that way, than to wait in line like everyone else. IMO they are no better than the taxis who are driving in the yellow lane.

It is also a very common cause in most motorcycle accidents. Fortuntely, most motorcyclists who have been involved in an accident caused in this manner are never able to ride a motorcycle again. Therefore reducing the overall percentage of motorcyclists who do this. That part is called Darwin's law. ;)

[CathJ]

Actually I am 99% sure that the law says that ANY vehicle on the road, no matter two, three or four wheels is supposed to travel in a forward direction in the MIDDLE of the lane and should only move out of the middle of the lane when they intend to overtake the vehicle in the front of them. Overtaking involves moving into the next lane when it is clear to do so and proceeding back into the middle of the original lane.

Just because the traffic officials TOLERATE it, does not mean it is legal or proper driving behaviour. The reason why it is illegal to drive on the dotted or solid white line is that you become vulnerable to cross moving traffic and you become invisible because you are driving in people's blind spot.

Almost ALL motorcyclists do it, because it is easy and faster to drive that way, than to wait in line like everyone else. IMO they are no better than the taxis who are driving in the yellow lane.

It is also a very common cause in most motorcycle accidents. Fortuntely, most motorcyclists who have been involved in an accident caused in this manner are never able to ride a motorcycle again. Therefore reducing the overall percentage of motorcyclists who do this. That part is called Darwin's law. ;)

No, it is legal. Or at the very least, it was at one point (someone mentioned something about it being made illegal again?). But I know when I started riding it was perfectly legal to use the 'middle lane' if you're a bike.

[Garyvdh]

No, it is legal. Or at the very least, it was at one point (someone mentioned something about it being made illegal again?). But I know when I started riding it was perfectly legal to use the 'middle lane' if you're a bike.

ok.. are we talking here about driving in the middle of the middle lane of a highway? or are we talking about driving on a dotted or solid white line?

If the former, then that is legal and would simply be considered a long overtaking. But the latter is definitely illegal. The White line or the dotted line is not considered a "lane" and driving on it is "straddling" which is clearly illegal and a violation of one of the basic principles of driving, "keep left and pass right".

[Deenem]

No, it is legal. Or at the very least, it was at one point (someone mentioned something about it being made illegal again?). But I know when I started riding it was perfectly legal to use the 'middle lane' if you're a bike.

Yup, the technical term for it is 'lane-splitting' .

It was made illegal in about 1992, a few laters is was made legal again because making it illegal had not made any difference.

[waynegohl]

That's just silly.

oh ok but that just me.

[Garyvdh]

Yup, the technical term for it is 'lane-splitting' .

It was made illegal in about 1992, a few laters is was made legal again because making it illegal had not made any difference.

I guess it might make a difference to those who lose their lives or loved ones because of a few selfish individuals. :confused:

One of the major problems with South Africans is that they have no patience.

[hj2k_x]

I guess it might make a difference to those who lose their lives or loved ones because of a few selfish individuals. :confused:

One of the major problems with South Africans is that they have no patience.

I agree. I'd gladly knock one of those lane-splitters right off their bikes.

[dam]

I agree. I'd gladly knock one of those lane-splitters right off their bikes.

Why? They are actually doing you a favour by not contributing to the traffic. Also it is the bikers who get injured and die not the people in their cars.

[hj2k_x]

Why? They are actually doing you a favour by not contributing to the traffic. Also it is the bikers who get injured and die not the people in their cars.

Doing me a favour by driving at 200km/h and taking my wing-mirror off when weaving through traffic? Do me a favour. ;)

[kevinswan007]

i ride a bike and it irrates me when i see bikers speeding down the road and swerving in and out of traffic. when i drive i stay behind the car in front and wait my turn, granted i am not a saint and i do drive fast but no where near the speeds some guys on their bikes drive. i even had a old man get out his car in front of me (we were waiting at a robot) and he offered me a sweet and thanked me for driving so well. needless to say i k@k'ed myself when he came to me in the traffic as i thought i had done something wrong.

lol, wish I could see your face when he got out of the car :p

[Garyvdh]

Why? They are actually doing you a favour by not contributing to the traffic. Also it is the bikers who get injured and die not the people in their cars.

no, they scare the bejesus out of me when they come flying past traffic that is at a standstill, making a totally unacceptable noise and putting other innocent people at risk of colliding with these flying bullets. It's not fair on those who choose to drive safely and with reserve. They are a menace and should be fined for this reckless behaviour. They make driving in traffic more difficult and scary cos it is just one more thing to have to look out for. I put them on the same level (mentally and societally) as the taxi drivers.

[Glordit]

People on bikes white line, just like taxis stop in the midle of the road... :D

[Stokstert]

Quote:

"When on the bike you will be amazed at how many people driving on the highway is aware of bikers. I was driving down the N14 at about 200km/h and even before I come close to the cars they move a little to the right and/or left still in their own lane and I can pass without even dropping the throttle back a bit. Then you get the bastards who try and be funny and close you off. These are the fools who have to have their mirrors replaced."

Complete disregard to fellow motorists driving at that speed. Who is actually the bastard here?:)

[hj2k_x]

no, they scare the bejesus out of me when they come flying past traffic that is at a standstill, making a totally unacceptable noise and putting other innocent people at risk of colliding with these flying bullets. It's not fair on those who choose to drive safely and with reserve. They are a menace and should be fined for this reckless behaviour. They make driving in traffic more difficult and scary cos it is just one more thing to have to look out for. I put them on the same level (mentally and societally) as the taxi drivers.

QFT.

IMO cyclists, that take up the entire lane of a single carriageway going about 20km/h should be breaking some kind of law as well :mad:

[dade]

Wow guys, I never knew there was so much negative feelings from the cages towards us bikers.

Every morning I commute with my little 250 from Durbanville to Century City on the N1 and lane-split all the way. I found that most people in cars will give way and I always try to thank them with a friendly wave, however every now and then I will find a guy that deliberately tries and cut me off, I could never understand this but it now seems that some of those people are on this forum.



I was driving down the N14 at about 200km/h ...


Pitbull, dude your not helping here.

[dam]

Doing me a favour by driving at 200km/h and taking my wing-mirror off when weaving through traffic? Do me a favour. ;)

I havn't personaly seen a bike doing 200kmp/h while I'm in traffic. I'm not saying it does'nt happen, and I would agree that in those cases it is reckless and dangerous.

I have knocked a mirror off a taxi while squeezing my way through a gap, but that was with my 4x4.

[hj2k_x]

I havn't personaly seen a bike doing 200kmp/h while I'm in traffic. I'm not saying it does'nt happen, and I would agree that in those cases it is reckless and dangerous.

I have knocked a mirror off a taxi while squeezing my way through a gap, but that was with my 4x4.

Doing 200 on the freeway or weaving through traffic, they are both reckless and unnecessary.

[Hogrod]

I hate it when bikers pull in front from the white lane on the right while I'm keeping a safe distance from the car in front. I have to brake to avoid them after getting an absolute fright.

I had one hit my wing mirror in traffic, fortunately managed to get him to pull over after honking my horn but even then he carried on regardless. By some miracle I caught up and he pulled over when I asked him to through the window. I was thankful he actually stopped and gave me his details with no fisticuffs! A biker with a conscience, there's still hope!

[Hogrod]

Wow guys, I never knew there was so much negative feelings from the cages towards us bikers.

Every morning I commute with my little 250 from Durbanville to Century City on the N1 and lane-split all the way. I found that most people in cars will give way and I always try to thank them with a friendly wave, however every now and then I will find a guy that deliberately tries and cut me off, I could never understand this but it now seems that some of those people are on this forum.

Pitbull, dude your not helping here.

The only reason I pull over to make room is

1: I don't want my car damaged
2: I will probably get the blame if a biker drives into my car due to his reckless behaviour, that includes lane splitting, and ignoring vehicles wanting to change lane
3: There's no need to thank me for pulling over I'm only doing it to protect myself from the idiots. With all due respect it's only the idiots I remember day after day. They give the rest of you a bad name.

[Garyvdh]

While we are on the subject of Traffic peeves here, can I hijack the thread and say what my other pet traffic peeves are?:confused:

ok, thanks! :D

1) Female (or male drivers, but they are usually female) who drive so slow and hesitantly that they actually become a menace on the roads. Lady, when you come to a 4 way Stop street, and it is your right of way... just please go. Don't do the stop start game with me, cos if you don't bleeding well go, I am just going to go in front of you. You are not doing me a blooming favour. I am counting on the fact that you will go when it is your turn. Just go already. Or they drive 30 ks in a 60 zone. You may think that is safe, but you are creating a dangerous situation by creating a line of cars backing up behind you. When a taxi comes along, he is going to try and overtake you on that white line and then kill all of us!
2) People who drive down onramps onto the highway at 60 kph. Then when they finally have merged into the slow lane they start to accelerate! That's what the onramp is for you moron. Accelerate on the onramp so that when you reach the highway you are already doing 100 to 120. You are forcing people behind you to cross the yellow line as well as forcing people in the slow highway lane to slam on brakes for you when you merge at 60 kph.
3) Traffic Circles. I know this has been posted lots of times here. But 90% of the population in SA do not know how traffic circles work. Yield to traffic already in the circle, go when it is your turn (treat it as first come first served and you will be fine). But if you wait I am going to go in front of you. Don't act all offended when I do that cos it was your turn. You should have gone when it was your turn.
4) Broken or Powered down Traffic lights. Treat as a four way stop. But DO NOT piggy back through the traffic light behind the car in front of you! Wait your blinking turn. Taxis are notorious for this esp. behind trucks. But they don't realise they are gonna get nailed when someone pulls out behind that truck.
5) People who cut and turn right in front of oncoming trafffic when the light turns green cos they think the oncoming traffic is going to be too slow. Then when the oncoming traffic has to slam on brakes cos these idiots are in the way, they give you the finger. Morons! One day you are gonna do that in front of a truck that won't stop. You want to see what a car looks like when placed in front of a truck? Messy.
6) People who wait three seconds after the light has turned green to go. Wake the **** up. What are you waiting for? Christmas? You might have all day, but my lunch hour is only an hour! Just go already.
7) Tow truck drivers. Kill the lot of them. confiscate their vehicles. Same with Taxis.
8) People who do not move over for emergency vehicles or even for Security Response Vehicles. One day that vehicle is going to be going to fetch your husband or son. Then you will know what it feels like to block it. If you are stopped at an intersection and an emergency vehicle pulls in front of you. Pull two meters forward and to the left. Don't worry, the cross traffic is not gonna hit you. and he can fit safely down your right side.

I better stop now before you guys think I have some kind of road rage problem or something :o

[hj2k_x]

While we are on the subject of Traffic peeves here, can I hijack the thread and say what my other pet traffic peeves are?:confused:

ok, thanks! :D

1) Female (or male drivers, but they are usually female) who drive so slow and hesitantly that they actually become a menace on the roads. Lady, when you come to a 4 way Stop street, and it is your right of way... just please go. Don't do the stop start game with me, cos if you don't bleeding well go, I am just going to go in front of you. You are not doing me a blooming favour. I am counting on the fact that you will go when it is your turn. Just go already. Or they drive 30 ks in a 60 zone. You may think that is safe, but you are creating a dangerous situation by creating a line of cars backing up behind you. When a taxi comes along, he is going to try and overtake you on that white line and then kill all of us!
2) People who drive down onramps onto the highway at 60 kph. Then when they finally have merged into the slow lane they start to accelerate! That's what the onramp is for you moron. Accelerate on the onramp so that when you reach the highway you are already doing 100 to 120. You are forcing people behind you to cross the yellow line as well as forcing people in the slow highway lane to slam on brakes for you when you merge at 60 kph.
3) Traffic Circles. I know this has been posted lots of times here. But 90% of the population in SA do not know how traffic circles work. Yield to traffic already in the circle, go when it is your turn (treat it as first come first served and you will be fine). But if you wait I am going to go in front of you. Don't act all offended when I do that cos it was your turn. You should have gone when it was your turn.
4) Broken or Powered down Traffic lights. Treat as a four way stop. But DO NOT piggy back through the traffic light behind the car in front of you! Wait your blinking turn. Taxis are notorious for this esp. behind trucks. But they don't realise they are gonna get nailed when someone pulls out behind that truck.
5) People who think they cut and turn right in front of oncoming trafffic when the light turns green cos they think the oncoming traffic is going to be too slow. Then when the oncoming traffic has to slam on brakes cos these idiots are in the way, they give you the finger. Morons! One day you are gonna do that in front of a truck that won't stop. You want to see what a car looks like when placed in front of a truck? Messy.
6) People who wait three seconds after the light has turned green to go. Wake the **** up. What are you waiting for? Christmas? You might have all day, but my lunch hour is only an hour! Just go already.
7) Tow truck drivers. Kill the lot of them. confiscate their vehicles. Same with Taxis.
8) People who do not move over for emergency vehicles or even for Security Response Vehicles. One day that vehicle is going to be going to fetch your husband or son. Then you will know what it feels like to block it. If you are stopped at an intersection and an emergency vehicle pulls in front of you. Pull two meters forward and to the left. Don't worry, the cross traffic is not gonna hit you. and he can fit safely down your right side.

I better stop now before you guys think I have some kind of road rage problem or something :o

Well said!! I think I have to agree with all of these :mad:

[vodacom3g]

A few relevant points:

- Lane splitting is completely legal. And logical.
- Safest 'following distance' for a bike is at least 100 meters in FRONT of traffic.
- Safest time to overtake is between 2 cars. They see each other, and can't change lanes giving a biker safe passage.
- The most dangerous setup is with cars staggered over two or more lanes giving them the change to swerve from lane to lane. The single biggest caused of biking accidents on freeways. Why car drivers believe the 'other lane is faster' boggles the mind.
- No-one can do 200Km/h weaving through stationary traffic. Bikers typically will do ~20Km/h faster than the traffic and will slow down or speed up with the traffic.
- You can typically read a fair number of cars ahead and can judge well what cars will do. Easy to spot the biker / biker-friends, they give you slightly more room. As easy to spot the d!cks, they will actually close the gap. One told me once, why must he sit in traffic and I can get through....:rolleyes:
- If more people rode bikes, bike awareness will increase and traffic congestion will decrease. As will petrol consumption.
- As with everything in life there will always be @ssholes around, even on bikes. But they're by far the minority. Average age of bikers is increasing and it can be seen in much more restrained biking in general. Top selling bike in SA (for years) is the BMW GS @ around R130K. School kids don't buy them.

Next time you see a biker, give him some room and thank him. Him being on a bike means you've just spent less time in traffic....and there's one more extra parking space for you.

[waynegohl]

lol, wish I could see your face when he got out of the car :p

first i was scared then embarrassed as it was peak traffic and we all standing at the robots. thank goodness for my helmut, no one will recognise me.

[dade]

A few relevant points:

- Lane splitting is completely legal. And logical.
- Safest 'following distance' for a bike is at least 100 meters in FRONT of traffic.
- Safest time to overtake is between 2 cars. They see each other, and can't change lanes giving a biker safe passage.
- The most dangerous setup is with cars staggered over two or more lanes giving them the change to swerve from lane to lane. The single biggest caused of biking accidents on freeways. Why car drivers believe the 'other lane is faster' boggles the mind.
- No-one can do 200Km/h weaving through stationary traffic. Bikers typically will do ~20Km/h faster than the traffic and will slow down or speed up with the traffic.
- You can typically read a fair number of cars ahead and can judge well what cars will do. Easy to spot the biker / biker-friends, they give you slightly more room. As easy to spot the d!cks, they will actually close the gap. One told me once, why must he sit in traffic and I can get through....:rolleyes:
- If more people rode bikes, bike awareness will increase and traffic congestion will decrease. As will petrol consumption.
- As with everything in life there will always be @ssholes around, even on bikes. But they're by far the minority. Average age of bikers is increasing and it can be seen in much more restrained biking in general. Top selling bike in SA (for years) is the BMW GS @ around R130K. School kids don't buy them.

Next time you see a biker, give him some room and thank him. Him being on a bike means you've just spent less time in traffic....and there's one more extra parking space for you.

Well said!! :)

[Garyvdh]

- Lane splitting is completely legal. And logical.

How is it logical to drive between two moving vehicles travelling at 120 kph (or stationary for that matter - even worse) with less than a meters clearance on either side of you? Extremely illogical. Daredevils do that to thrill the crowd.


- Safest 'following distance' for a bike is at least 100 meters in FRONT of traffic.

This is simply an admission that you choose to exceed the posted speed limit and you don't like to be held back by vehicles travelling at a rational speed.


- Safest time to overtake is between 2 cars. They see each other, and can't change lanes giving a biker safe passage.

Yes, they see each other, they are not looking for or expecting a flying bullet coming from behind exceeding their own speeds. Things can change on a highway in a split second and one of those cars could slow in an instant and change lanes. There would be little room for the bike to stop.


Why car drivers believe the 'other lane is faster' boggles the mind.

Because they do not have the option of squeezing between vehicles and jumping the queue. For a car to do that is ludicrous and he would be frowned upon. How is it any less stupid for a motorcyclist?


- You can typically read a fair number of cars ahead and can judge well what cars will do.

This is just wishful thinking. You are not a prophet and can NEVER predict what is about to unfold in front of you. That is exactly how accidents happen. And they unfold in a few split seconds. If this was true, there would never be accidents involving motorcycles.


Easy to spot the biker / biker-friends, they give you slightly more room. As easy to spot the d!cks, they will actually close the gap.

You could be completely misreading this situation. The cars "giving you room" might be drivers getting a fright when you come rocketing out of nowhere. And the drivers "closing the gap" may simply be weaving in their own lane or talking on their cellphones. You have no way of knowing what is going through their minds and to presume that you do is a very dangerous thought.


- If more people rode bikes, bike awareness will increase and traffic congestion will decrease. As will petrol consumption.

How so? You still need to move that many bodies along the highways. Congestion would remain the same. Have you ever been to India or China where there are thousands more bikes on the road than in South Africa? Go ride there and then come and make this statement to me again. Petrol consumption would decrease slightly since bikes are lighter on fuel, but no overall by much. As I said, you still have to move that many bodies. And it is also impractical since children and grannies cannot and do not ride motorcycles.


Next time you see a biker, give him some room and thank him. Him being on a bike means you've just spent less time in traffic....and there's one more extra parking space for you.

I will thank him if he is patient and responsible like me. But if he squeezes between my car and the car next to me, he is an idiot and will probably get a gesture from me and a toot on the horn. And I hate it when I see a bike taking up an entire parking place at the mall, esp. when it is full or busy. How come he takes the middle of space when it suits him, but on the highway he gets to squeeze between cars. Hypocritical.

But that is just my opinion ;)

[hj2k_x]

A few relevant points:

- Lane splitting is completely legal. And logical.
- Safest 'following distance' for a bike is at least 100 meters in FRONT of traffic.
- Safest time to overtake is between 2 cars. They see each other, and can't change lanes giving a biker safe passage.
- The most dangerous setup is with cars staggered over two or more lanes giving them the change to swerve from lane to lane. The single biggest caused of biking accidents on freeways. Why car drivers believe the 'other lane is faster' boggles the mind.
- No-one can do 200Km/h weaving through stationary traffic. Bikers typically will do ~20Km/h faster than the traffic and will slow down or speed up with the traffic.
- You can typically read a fair number of cars ahead and can judge well what cars will do. Easy to spot the biker / biker-friends, they give you slightly more room. As easy to spot the d!cks, they will actually close the gap. One told me once, why must he sit in traffic and I can get through....:rolleyes:
- If more people rode bikes, bike awareness will increase and traffic congestion will decrease. As will petrol consumption.
- As with everything in life there will always be @ssholes around, even on bikes. But they're by far the minority. Average age of bikers is increasing and it can be seen in much more restrained biking in general. Top selling bike in SA (for years) is the BMW GS @ around R130K. School kids don't buy them.

Next time you see a biker, give him some room and thank him. Him being on a bike means you've just spent less time in traffic....and there's one more extra parking space for you.

I strongly disagree. With all of this.

[Pitbull]

:D


How is it logical to drive between two moving vehicles travelling at 120 kph (or stationary for that matter - even worse) with less than a meters clearance on either side of you? Extremely illogical. Daredevils do that to thrill the crowd.

Then you my friend drive like a prick. There is close to 2m gap between cars.... easy


This is simply an admission that you choose to exceed the posted speed limit and you don't like to be held back by vehicles travelling at a rational speed.

Yes, so ?


Yes, they see each other, they are not looking for or expecting a flying bullet coming from behind exceeding their own speeds. Things can change on a highway in a split second and one of those cars could slow in an instant and change lanes. There would be little room for the bike to stop.

That is why we pass around them. We can't just drop the brakes like you driving in your car. If you where to concentrate on traffic and not mess around you will have no need to stop dead in traffic. If the traffic is stationary the biker can see that way before you can... why ? because he's life depends on it. You just don't give a shyt. Take that flaps off your eyes


Because they do not have the option of squeezing between vehicles and jumping the queue. For a car to do that is ludicrous and he would be frowned upon. How is it any less stupid for a motorcyclist?

So you're crying because we're not stuck in traffic ? :rolleyes:


This is just wishful thinking. You are not a prophet and can NEVER predict what is about to unfold in front of you. That is exactly how accidents happen. And they unfold in a few split seconds. If this was true, there would never be accidents involving motorcycles.

Yes you can. Get on a bike one day, if you are a good Car driver, you can predict what is going to happen in traffic. You can see the person driving the car, you can see if he's looking at his mirrors and which ones. thus you can assume he is ready to change lanes to one or another direction. You can see if a car right in front of you is driving faster than the one before him. Then you can assume he will either force the one infront of him to change lanes or he will change lanes without indicating.


You could be completely misreading this situation. The cars "giving you room" might be drivers getting a fright when you come rocketing out of nowhere. And the drivers "closing the gap" may simply be weaving in their own lane or talking on their cellphones. You have no way of knowing what is going through their minds and to presume that you do is a very dangerous thought.

The driver should not get a fright, he should be aware of he's surroundings while driving. I have never had a fright from a bike. I check my mirrors while driving even full out in my car on the highway and i'm alone. I would hate to be in a car that you're driving if you're not observing


How so? You still need to move that many bodies along the highways. Congestion would remain the same. Have you ever been to India or China where there are thousands more bikes on the road than in South Africa? Go ride there and then come and make this statement to me again. Petrol consumption would decrease slightly since bikes are lighter on fuel, but no overall by much. As I said, you still have to move that many bodies. And it is also impractical since children and grannies cannot and do not ride motorcycles.

Now your just talking utter crap. Use commen sense mate ;)



I will thank him if he is patient and responsible like me. But if he squeezes between my car and the car next to me, he is an idiot and will probably get a gesture from me and a toot on the horn. And I hate it when I see a bike taking up an entire parking place at the mall, esp. when it is full or busy. How come he takes the middle of space when it suits him, but on the highway he gets to squeeze between cars. Hypocritical.


But that is just my opinion ;)

I thank each and every person that gives me space to ride in. I respect those people. People like you... I take their mirrors off

But that is just my opinion ;)[/QUOTE]

[Pixie22]

Cautious drivers suck. If you can't even decide what you are doing, how the hell do you expect everyone else to figure it out? Drive with some intention and confidence plz. Its cautious drivers that cause the most accidents fs

[Pitbull]

Doing 200 on the freeway or weaving through traffic, they are both reckless and unnecessary.

A dude doing 200 km/h in normal traffic is a fk'ng looney :D

I'm talking about a Highway drive on a Sunday afternoon then you're lucky to see 10 cars between Pretoria and Johannesburg on the N14 ;)

[Messugga]

How so? You still need to move that many bodies along the highways. Congestion would remain the same. Have you ever been to India or China where there are thousands more bikes on the road than in South Africa? Go ride there and then come and make this statement to me again. Petrol consumption would decrease slightly since bikes are lighter on fuel, but no overall by much. As I said, you still have to move that many bodies. And it is also impractical since children and grannies cannot and do not ride motorcycles.


The smaller the ratio between the volume of the mode of transport and the volume of the people transported, the more people you can shove through a given space in the same period of time. Your argument holds true if you manage to cram your car 100% full of human bodies, including the engine-bay and boot. With a bike, most of it is located underneath the person riding it, with only a relatively small portion protruding from underneath the rider. Ie. the bike takes up less space than a car and thus will increase traffic flow which will decrease congestion and decrease petrol usage even more than that already saved by the improved mileage one gets on a motorcycle, as less time is spent in traffic.

[Cronos]

Hi everyone! Interesting discussion you have going here. My name is Cronos and I'm from the Think Bike Safety and Awareness Campaign. We are not a club and we trying to help and represent all road users.

We try and educate all bikers in the regard of safety and safe riding practice, but this is not always possible. The old saying of "You can take a donkey to water, but you can't make it drink" comes to mind. We are not law enforcement, nor do we want the task, so all we can do is to try and advice. "Bottle & Throttle don't mix" "No number plates are illegal" "use ATGATT(All The Gear All The Time) when riding" "Be polite and courteous" "Be visible (through the use of our Day-Glo Bibs)" All this and more we convey to our members, but they are all still individuals with minds of their own and we can not enforce the law. I would really like to invite you all to come take a look at www.thinkbike.co.za Click on talk, join the forum and come see what we are about.

We have a mammoth task ahead of us, but everyday we making a difference. It would be great if we could have some more cagers join the campaign, to get your input on how we could do it better or to have a better understanding of your complaints or compliments.

This particular Subject hits real close to home for us. We are Biking enthusiasts trying to make a difference. Allot of things mentioned here like the speeds bikes do lane splitting(white line riding) and the braking of mirrors gets highly condemned by us and we encourage our members to not practise these kinds of hooliganism. Our main concern is safety!! If I go and break this cars mirror off, how the hell must he see the next biker that’s coming from behind and now he has a grudge, because some hooligan biker damaged his car.

The one point that was made here was that the safest place for a bike to be is way ahead of traffic. Please can I elaborate on this a bit? Bikes accelerate a whole lot faster than cars and sometimes it would seem that we race to get ahead of traffic. It takes us a bout 3 seconds to get up to 80km/h so it might seem as if we speeding away. I know I for one do this a lot, but I only accelerate to the prescribed speed limit and then keep my speed constant from there, placing me ahead of the traffic.

Lane splitting is legal and even gets encouraged by the Department of Transport. We encourage our members to use the "Biker Lane" (between the fast and the middle lane) for lane splitting. It is the safest place to be, but not all bikers know this yet. Think Bike has been in talks with the DOT about making it a recognised biker lane, but this process is slow and might still take a wile before it gets implemented. There are safe ways of splitting and there are unsafe ways. Wile lane splitting we encourage our members to always be going about 20 to 30 km faster than the traffic, to help the flow of things. So when riding through still standing traffic you should only be doing about 20/30km's per hour Neway.

The biggest problem we find is cagers not indicating their intention to change lanes or only indicating once they have halfway finished the lane change. I know I for one and a lot of our member’s share this feeling is that when I see a cars indicator go on, I will not ride into your space, until the lane change is complete. We also always try our best to thank all drivers of cars that do give us way in the form of a friendly wave or a nod of the head. Some of our members feel so strongly about this that they working on a patch or a sticker that could be placed on the riders jacket or stick on the bike Saying "Thank You" to all motorists giving us way.

Thanx for listening and I truly hope some of you will take this opportunity to visit www.thinkbike.co.za and come help us make a difference. If you would like more info on TB and what it is that we do, feel free to mail me on cronos@thinkbike.co.za

Keep well and remember to Think Bike

[Pitbull]

Very nice post.

The reason I think so many of us take off the mirrors if because the idiot in his cage doesn't use it anyway. I have taken off a few, and every time it was only done after the stupid fool nearly knocked me off my bike by not checking his mirrors. Us Bikers make it a unspoken rule to make sure that you see the driver of the car in his mirrow before doing anything. If I can see him in his mirror he can see me. There is no excuse for changing lanes if I'm right next to your car and have a Yoshi Pipe the size of a Watermelon.

Some people in cages are just bloody idiots

[hj2k_x]

Very nice post.

The reason I think so many of us take off the mirrors if because the idiot in his cage doesn't use it anyway. I have taken off a few, and every time it was only done after the stupid fool nearly knocked me off my bike by not checking his mirrors. Us Bikers make it a unspoken rule to make sure that you see the driver of the car in his mirrow before doing anything. If I can see him in his mirror he can see me. There is no excuse for changing lanes if I'm right next to your car and have a Yoshi Pipe the size of a Watermelon.

Some people in cages are just bloody idiots

Dude, if you are gunning it down the middle of two lanes, between cars, then expect to get people knocking you off your bike every now and then. A bit of common sense and decent driving on everyone's part and this can all be prevented.

[Gnome]

I can't honestly believe that the Department of Transport encourages lane splitting (even though they apparently do).

It's a very dangerous practice, usually I hear a biker before I see them, cheaper cars don't have wide angle mirrors and there is no way I can see a biker without turning my head (which makes me vulnerable because cars in front of me can suddenly stop). That said I constantly keep track of vehicles around me (I check my mirrors constantly), I only check my blind spots by turning my head when I see a vehicle that I was aware of earlier has disappeared. Bikes that lane split don't fit into this category, so they make it dangerous to themselves, if I don't hear them and they weren't there earlier I'm not holding myself responsible because they lane split, bikers have to take responsibility for their own lives they can't constantly expecting cars to look out for them when they implement road rules that only bikes follow (which coincidently make up a lesser of the road population).

my 2c.

Btw. I haven't been in a accident yet (5 years of driving almost every day) so it's not like I disregard bikers, if I see them before they are in my blind spot or hear them I keep a eye on them but I've had a close call with a bike before.

[Garyvdh]

Then you my friend drive like a prick. There is close to 2m gap between cars.... easy
Take that flaps off your eyes
Now your just talking utter crap. Use commen sense mate ;)
People like you... I take their mirrors off


Um, I said a meter clearance on either side. there are only two sides. So one meter plus one meter ... makes how much? Two meters!!! Well done! ;)

I am sorry but I don't know how to "take that flaps" off my eyes.

I also unfortunately do not have any "commen sense". God only gave me common sense... and that is what I use when I drive.

If you take my mirrors off it means you were too close to my vehicle, and that you were therefore driving recklessly.

I suspect you are one of those pricks who puts a motor cycle between his legs and think that makes you immortal.

Fortunately, I don't have to worry cos you will probably be dead in a couple of years anyway! ;) No great loss... one more bad biker off the roads!

[supersunbird]

I think all cars should be fitted with wide angle mirror devices...

[hj2k_x]

I think all cars should be fitted with wide angle mirror devices...

I'd rather they be fitted with razor-edged lances, like the old gladiator chariots :)

[vodacom3g]

How is it logical to drive between two moving vehicles travelling at 120 kph (or stationary for that matter - even worse) with less than a meters clearance on either side of you? Extremely illogical. Daredevils do that to thrill the crowd.


Not at all. If two cars are next to each other, even if they do 120Km/h, relative to each other they're stationary. In addition they know about each other and keep their distance. for a bike, going say 20Km/h faster, its a very safe place to pass. And 2 meters is more than enough, a typical bike is less than a meter wide.

I assume you've never done this so you speak from inexperience. Ask the bikers here and they'll agree its a safe practise.



This is simply an admission that you choose to exceed the posted speed limit and you don't like to be held back by vehicles travelling at a rational speed.


Who said anything about exceeding any speed limit? The point is that if there are no cars in front of you whose potential idiotic actions you have to anticipate, you're much safer. Logic-101 surely. And even a small bike will out-accelerate your expensive box. :)



Yes, they see each other, they are not looking for or expecting a flying bullet coming from behind exceeding their own speeds. Things can change on a highway in a split second and one of those cars could slow in an instant and change lanes. There would be little room for the bike to stop.


If they're next to each other, they cannot change lanes, now can they? That the whole point. :rolleyes: And 20Km/h extra speed is not exactly a "flying bullet".



Because they do not have the option of squeezing between vehicles and jumping the queue. For a car to do that is ludicrous and he would be frowned upon. How is it any less stupid for a motorcyclist?


It's safe for a bike, impossible for a car. What's your point?



This is just wishful thinking. You are not a prophet and can NEVER predict what is about to unfold in front of you. That is exactly how accidents happen. And they unfold in a few split seconds. If this was true, there would never be accidents involving motorcycles.


Even good car drivers can see what cars ahead are up to. On a bike, you're much higher so you can see further ahead and can see when cars are attempting lane changes for example. I sincerely hope that you, as a car driver, also try and look ahead when you drive.



You could be completely misreading this situation. The cars "giving you room" might be drivers getting a fright when you come rocketing out of nowhere. And the drivers "closing the gap" may simply be weaving in their own lane or talking on their cellphones. You have no way of knowing what is going through their minds and to presume that you do is a very dangerous thought.


One thing bikers learn to do is to make eye contact with the car drivers. This ensures that you know they've seen you. It's then easy to identify the ones who look you in the eyes and close the gap. Trust me this happens.

It's also easy to spot the ones you stay away from including those who talk on their cell phones, read the newspaper, eat their breakfast or do their makeup. All these I've personally seen on multiple occasions. So you're right, often nothing seems to go through their minds. But bikers learn to look out for these idiots and give them a wide berth.



How so? You still need to move that many bodies along the highways. Congestion would remain the same. Have you ever been to India or China where there are thousands more bikes on the road than in South Africa? Go ride there and then come and make this statement to me again. Petrol consumption would decrease slightly since bikes are lighter on fuel, but no overall by much. As I said, you still have to move that many bodies. And it is also impractical since children and grannies cannot and do not ride motorcycles.


Come on Gary, surely you can figure this one out? How many square meters of road (or parking lots) does a bike occupy vs. a car? Go measure your car and work it out (hint: it's length x width). Now divide this by the number of occupants in your car. This gives you the average space needed per person. Do the same for a bike.

You're saying that if everyone in China and India drove cars, there would not be more traffic congestion? That's just silly. :rolleyes:

I've ridden bikes in many countries and when I go to countries like China or India, I specifically get a bike, so as not to be stuck in traffic for hours. Even in Europe, I rather use bikes than cars. Exploring a city like Paris or Rome on a bike is infinitely more fun, quicker and less stressful.



I will thank him if he is patient and responsible like me. But if he squeezes between my car and the car next to me, he is an idiot and will probably get a gesture from me and a toot on the horn. And I hate it when I see a bike taking up an entire parking place at the mall, esp. when it is full or busy. How come he takes the middle of space when it suits him, but on the highway he gets to squeeze between cars. Hypocritical.

But that is just my opinion ;)


So when it suits you (bike should not be in a parking space you need), its OK for bikes to squeeze into a small gap, but when it suits the biker (lane splitting on the freeway) it's wrong?

Who's being hypocritical?

Bikers will typically try and not use a car parking space but some environments (some malls for example) insist you park in a normal spot and will clamp you if you don't. I try not to use a car space, as you might just get a car driver who 'hates' this banging my bike as has happened in the past. Or they park behind you, half-way into the spot. Now how do you get out? Not only is my bike safer somewhere away from the cars but Ive saved someone a parking spot. Even if I pay the EXACT same amount to park at the mall than you.

I just noticed Cronos' post. Read it. These guys do good work and they know all the angles.

Gary, its clear you've never ridden bikes and from you other posts you are quite a frustrated motorist. Your use of the word 'hate', phrases such as "Wake the **** up" or your desire to kill other road users is worrisome. You seriously need to relax and I have just the solution for you:

I can honestly advise you need to get a bike!

Not only do you avoid all the issues on the road that makes your commuting miserable (and is causing all this hatred in you), but riding a bike is an extremely pleasurable passtime.

As you might have gathered, I ride a lot (pretty much non-stop for nearly 30 years) and have a number of different bikes; cruisers for going slow (typically ~80Km/h), commuting types (best for day-to-day traffic which for most cars is around 120 - 140Km/h) and sports bikes for when there are no other cars around or (mostly) track days where fast riding should be done. I also ride MX and Enduro bikes.

And this is the beauty of biking; while you seem to passionately dislike being in your car, for bikers it's an absolute passion.

Try it. You'll love it.

[dam]

Well I was considering getting myself a bike to save petrol and time.
But I am having second thoughts because now I know that there are people out there who will purposefully try and knock me off my bike, possibley killing me, just because they dont like bikes, or because they get a fright?!? And these are the people who say that bikers are the reckless ones?!!!!? Go figure:rolleyes:

[vodacom3g]

Well I was considering getting myself a bike to save petrol and time.
But I am having second thoughts because now I know that there are people out there who will purposefully try and knock me off my bike, possibley killing me, just because they dont like bikes, or because they get a fright?!? And these are the people who say that bikers are the reckless ones?!!!!? Go figure:rolleyes:

Don't let that stop you. As you've noticed in this thread there are motorists out there that 'hates' and 'wants to kill' just about any other type of road user.

Just like they will block bikers they'll also block other cars who want to change lanes, won't give anyone a gap, etc. It's not an anti-bike thing, rather they just miserable people with an anti-everything attitude and take it out on other road users....:rolleyes:

Get a bike, the pros outweighs the cons. By far. You'll learn to spot and avoid these types.

[Cronos]

Well I was considering getting myself a bike to save petrol and time.
But I am having second thoughts because now I know that there are people out there who will purposefully try and knock me off my bike, possibley killing me, just because they dont like bikes, or because they get a fright?!? And these are the people who say that bikers are the reckless ones?!!!!? Go figure:rolleyes:

Just do it, get the bike!! Unfortunately it's true that you do get people out there that hate bikes just because. We had an incident down in Cape Town about 3 weeks back where a guy deliberately knock a biker over just because he had a bad day, then quickly sped away turning it into a hit and run. The biker was injured bad and almost died, but thanx to quick response from paramedics, he made it. He had no info on the car, except make and colour. Think Bike and their contacts traced a witness that had the reg number and consequently, the driver was tracked to his work and arrested in front of all his staff and put in jail. He now faces an attempted murder rap and his licence might get suspended.

Dam - Do yourself a favour and go check out www.thinkbike.co.za and you will meet a lot of like minded people that can help, advise and encourage you when and where you need it. Might convince you again to take that first step to freeing yourself from your CAGE!!! ;)

[StbA]

I'm glad I got my bike, saved me 2-3 hours of commuting time a day.
As for the people who try to block me, a light kick on their left back wheel with my foot wakes them up.
(they pull off at the nearest spot to check their tyre). Makes them late and justice is served.

[Garyvdh]

so how come just because I disagree with the behaviour of some of these motorcyclists, that makes me a prick and a frustrated motorist?

There is nothing wrong with my driving and I have never, ever tried to knock anyone off a motorbike and I never would.

I have never had an accident in over twenty years of driving and I consider myself an extremely safe and restrained driver.

Why do I need to get on a motorcycle to "release" myself? from what? If I want to relax, I post on this board, or watch some tv or ride my mountain bike.

Am I judged as some kind of roadhog just becuase I think the practice of "whitelining" is reckless? I also happen to think that taxis driving in the yellow lane is reckless, but I guess that makes me some kind of frustrated racist. :eek:

[Highflyer_GP]

I'm glad I got my bike, saved me 2-3 hours of commuting time a day.
As for the people who try to block me, a light kick on their left back wheel with my foot wakes them up.
(they pull off at the nearest spot to check their tyre). Makes them late and justice is served.

Some people don't deliberately block you - they might be trying to change lanes and have to stop because they saw you coming. Unless of course you prefer that they continue with the manoeuvre and take you out in the process. What gives you the right to stomp on another person's property anyhow?

[StbA]

Cause it's rubber, not glass or paint.

[Highflyer_GP]

Still not your property. And then you wonder why some motorists act like pricks towards bikers. If you have no knowledge of the circumstances then you're in no position to make a judgement call.

I've said it before, I'm always courteous towards bikers and haven't had an incident with them yet. But if my car is damaged by just one guy, then expect that courtesy to go out the window for all bikers. Sure it would be a nice gesture if the guy stopped and offered to pay for damages, but the money issue doesn't bother me, it's the inconvenience of getting the thing repaired. My time is worth far more than money.

[vodacom3g]

Am I judged as some kind of roadhog just becuase I think the practice of "whitelining" is reckless? I also happen to think that taxis driving in the yellow lane is reckless, but I guess that makes me some kind of frustrated racist. :eek:


Not at all, why bring race into it?.

Using words like 'hate' and 'kill' when referring to other road users is worrisome and conveys a strong picture of intolerance toward others.

Just the thing biking will sort out! :)

[vodacom3g]

Still not your property. And then you wonder why some motorists act like pricks towards bikers. If you have no knowledge of the circumstances then you're in no position to make a judgement call.

I've said it before, I'm always courteous towards bikers and haven't had an incident with them yet. But if my car is damaged by just one guy, then expect that courtesy to go out the window for all bikers. Sure it would be a nice gesture if the guy stopped and offered to pay for damages, but the money issue doesn't bother me, it's the inconvenience of getting the thing repaired. My time is worth far more than money.

I also would get peeved if someone bangs on my car. Reminds me of the Corsa(?) add with the cyclist leaning on the car at the traffic lights.

I find just blipping the throttle a bit when I'm stuck behind a car is enough for the motorist to notice me and then as soon as he/she can move forward they typically will move to create a gap. At least most of the time. And I always thank them as I go past.

[Claymore]

I've said it before, I'm always courteous towards bikers and haven't had an incident with them yet. But if my car is damaged by just one guy, then expect that courtesy to go out the window for all bikers. Sure it would be a nice gesture if the guy stopped and offered to pay for damages, but the money issue doesn't bother me, it's the inconvenience of getting the thing repaired. My time is worth far more than money.

I always do my best to be courteous to bikers; I move out of the way, I watch for them, and I'm glad they're there to reduce the number of cars on the road.

That said, if by some mischance I don't see one, whether because of an SUV behind me, or a bike without a light, and the biker takes affront and bashes my mirror, I'm sure my involuntary reaction would be to swerve toward the cause of the damage...

[Garyvdh]

Not at all, why bring race into it?.

Using words like 'hate' and 'kill' when referring to other road users is worrisome and conveys a strong picture of intolerance toward others.

Just the thing biking will sort out! :)

Where did I say anything about hating anybody? Show me.

and my comment about "killing" all the two truck drivers and taxi drivers was facetious and not meant to be taken literally.

Other than that I have said nothing about hating or killing anybody. I have said that recklessness kills people, and I stand by that.

[hj2k_x]

I always do my best to be courteous to bikers; I move out of the way, I watch for them, and I'm glad they're there to reduce the number of cars on the road.



It's a two-way street. Sadly, most bikers don't give a damn about the other people on the road.

[vodacom3g]

Where did I say anything about hating anybody? Show me.

and my comment about "killing" all the two truck drivers and taxi drivers was facetious and not meant to be taken literally.

Other than that I have said nothing about hating or killing anybody. I have said that recklessness kills people, and I stand by that.

Read your own posts above and you'll find words like hate, moron, kill, wake the f*** up, etc. All referring to other road users.

Though you might believe they were said facetiously, you're posting in a public forum where only your words stand as testimony. So it does come across as pretty intolerant.

To get back on-topic; Earlier this morning I went to Canal Walk with my daughter, on a bike of course. I specifically looked to see how big the gaps between cars in parallel lanes actually are and how much space there is to overtake. It's definitely more than 2 meters. More than enough for safe passage for a bike.

As luck (or fate) would have it, the N1 into Cape Town was blocked (think there was a fire) and all the traffic was standing completely still. Cars were going UP on-ramps trying to get out of the stuck traffic. (Guess I should now say ALL car drivers are idiots for driving on the wrong side of a freeway? ;) After all what they did is extremely reckless and against the law.)

Needless to say, on the bike we maybe lost 5 minutes arriving at our destination due to this.

So I can understand motorists get frustrated when they're stuck in traffic and the bikes get through. But you can't really blame the bikes for being more suitable to high-traffic situations.

[bwana]

While in my youth I had a bike (or two) I'd never even consider putting my kid on the back of one because no matter what a car will always win an altercation with a bike.

[hj2k_x]

To get back on-topic; Earlier this morning I went to Canal Walk with my daughter, on a bike of course. I specifically looked to see how big the gaps between cars in parallel lanes actually are and how much space there is to overtake. It's definitely more than 2 meters. More than enough for safe passage for a bike.

As luck (or fate) would have it, the N1 into Cape Town was blocked (think there was a fire) and all the traffic was standing completely still. Cars were going UP on-ramps trying to get out of the stuck traffic. (Guess I should now say ALL car drivers are idiots for driving on the wrong side of a freeway? ;) After all what they did is extremely reckless and against the law.)

Needless to say, on the bike we maybe lost 5 minutes arriving at our destination due to this.

So I can understand motorists get frustrated when they're stuck in traffic and the bikes get through. But you can't really blame the bikes for being more suitable to high-traffic situations.

You can blame them when they drive without regard for others, which is exactly what driving along the middle of two lanes is.

I don't care if it was a 2m gap or not. It is unsafe. I don't understand how you bikers can claim some moral high ground like you are all doing us a favour by making less traffic, when what you are doing is unnecessary and dangerous.

[hj2k_x]

so how come just because I disagree with the behaviour of some of these motorcyclists, that makes me a prick and a frustrated motorist?

There is nothing wrong with my driving and I have never, ever tried to knock anyone off a motorbike and I never would.

I have never had an accident in over twenty years of driving and I consider myself an extremely safe and restrained driver.

Why do I need to get on a motorcycle to "release" myself? from what? If I want to relax, I post on this board, or watch some tv or ride my mountain bike.

Am I judged as some kind of roadhog just becuase I think the practice of "whitelining" is reckless? I also happen to think that taxis driving in the yellow lane is reckless, but I guess that makes me some kind of frustrated racist. :eek:

Excellent post this one.

[Garyvdh]

Read your own posts above and you'll find words like hate, moron, kill, wake the f*** up, etc. All referring to other road users.

Though you might believe they were said facetiously, you're posting in a public forum where only your words stand as testimony. So it does come across as pretty intolerant.

actually, reading back through this I see those who use motorcycles getting upset at "cagies" and threatening to "kick their tyres" or "take off their rear view mirrors".

That scares me waaaaay more than any sarcastic comments I might have made. :eek:

[StbA]

Question to the bikers:
Do you drive with your brights on during the white lane ride in peak hour traffic?

[hj2k_x]

actually, reading back through this I see those who use motorcycles getting upset at "cagies" and threatening to "kick their tyres" or "take off their rear view mirrors".

That scares me waaaaay more than any sarcastic comments I might have made. :eek:

Same here.

[CathJ]

Question to the bikers:
Do you drive with your brights on during the white lane ride in peak hour traffic?

As a bike, you're required to have your headlights on at all times during the day or night.

I wouldn't use brights, though, unless the situation warrants it for some reason.

[redarrow]

I sometimes think that motorists are just jealous of bikers for not having to sit stuck in queues.. :p

I get annoyed the way people judge bikers ("they're reckless idiots ".. etc) ..
The vast majority of bikers I've seen do not "fly at 120Km/h" between stationary traffic - contrary to what so many people say.. :confused:
For myself I simply putter along at about 20 between stationary cars..

Of course there some idiotic bikers out there - I've seen some bikers doing stupid things enough times (such as passing on the curb :eek:)

But for some balance I have seen way way more idiotic motorists..

Something that sticks out here which I've noticed before, is that an incredible amount of motorists have absolutely no ability to judge the width of their own cars - most of them seem to believe that they are driving tanks, I often shake my head when I see motorists who when wanting to pass a car on the left (when the car is stationary and waiting to turn right) drive all over the curb to get past even though there is plenty of room on the road... - perhaps this is why some motorists think that the bikes are dangerously "squeezing past" .. ;)


What I'd like to know of motorists is what do you expect bikers to do? Do really expect them to drive as if they where driving cars?
Do you [motorists] drive as if you were driving a eighteen wheeler truck? Can you even start to imagine how frustrated truck drivers must get in traffic? I always see cars nipping in front of them and never giving them a chance.. - serious case of pot calling the kettle black.. :cool:


Driving a bike is like using Linux: faster, better, more fun.. and always those with the biggest complaints are those who have never tried it.. :cool:



Question to the bikers:
Do you drive with your brights on during the white lane ride in peak hour traffic?
I always leave my bikes high beam on.. I desire that motorists see me coming.. ;)
I do of course dip them for oncoming traffic when driving at night... :)

[dade]

Well time for me to get to work.
/me prepares to get on his scoot and do some lane-splitting. :D

[Pitbull]

I always do my best to be courteous to bikers; I move out of the way, I watch for them, and I'm glad they're there to reduce the number of cars on the road.

That said, if by some mischance I don't see one, whether because of an SUV behind me, or a bike without a light, and the biker takes affront and bashes my mirror, I'm sure my involuntary reaction would be to swerve toward the cause of the damage...

That won't happen.

Bikers observe the conditions as they approach. The would not come past at a speed if there is a Taxi or an SUV infront of them. There might be a car infront of it that the biker can't see. I will not pass any car unless I can see what is going on infront.

One thing I think people don't know. Riding a bike for a hour at a time feels like driving a car for 3 hours. You're mentaly exhausted. a Decent bikier drives for himself but he also drives all the cars infront of him in his head. Predicting what the cars might/not do, having to judge distance all the time etc. It is very tiresome but at the same time makes one a better driver in a car at the same time.

I have to add that I feel alot less saver in a car than on a bike :o

[chiskop]

Bikers observe the conditions as they approach. The would not come past at a speed if there is a Taxi or an SUV infront of them. There might be a car infront of it that the biker can't see. I will not pass any car unless I can see what is going on infront.

That is what you do, and probably how most bikers behave too. But there are a small minority of cowboys who make it dangerous for everybody else. Not all bikers are angels on two wheels, just as not all motorists are out to get you.

I have never wished death on a motorcyclist because he's faster than me in traffic. I have been pissed off when I've seen reckless driving/riding, but that applies equally to motorists and cyclists.

And no, I'm not jealous of motorcyclists, especially not in winter. :)

News flash: Some pricks drive cars and others ride bikes. We should do all we can to make sure that whatever our personal choice of transport, we don't become a hazard to other road users.

[Pitbull]

That is what you do, and probably how most bikers behave too. But there are a small minority of cowboys who make it dangerous for everybody else. Not all bikers are angels on two wheels, just as not all motorists are out to get you.

I have never wished death on a motorcyclist because he's faster than me in traffic. I have been pissed off when I've seen reckless driving/riding, but that applies equally to motorists and cyclists.

And no, I'm not jealous of motorcyclists, especially not in winter. :)

News flash: Some pricks drive cars and others ride bikes. We should do all we can to make sure that whatever our personal choice of transport, we don't become a hazard to other road users.

I agree 100%

Hey lets be honest, I made a mistake a few times and so does car drivers. Only problem is, if I make a mistake on the bike I hurt myself only. If I make a mistake in my car, I end up hurting alot more people than just myself ;)

I think drivers of cars should think about that for a second

[Cronos]

Question to the bikers:
Do you drive with your brights on during the white lane ride in peak hour traffic?

I will normally switch to bright when approaching a dangerous intersection (which are most of them) and in rainy or bad weather conditions I switch to bright regardless. I need to be seen and the last thing I would want to hear is "Sorry, but I did not see you"

I would like to ask the car drivers a question: Why is it that when it's raining or Misty and you can barely see 10M in front of you, the drivers of black, silver or Dark coloured vehicles do not use lights at all :confused: a Silver car disappears in the rain, not to even mention dark vehicles. Does safety mean so little to these people?

How many of you here are in the habit of using your PARK LIGHTS in these situations? You get these drivers that will go through the effort, burning all their energy to lift their arms to switch on park lights, but then does not have the energy left to turn the switch one more time to switch on the head lights. Park lights mean nothing in heavy rain!!!!! This practice is also illegal, but unfortunately our wonderful metro, are allergic to the rain and prefer to stay indoors on rainy days.

[Cronos]

Chiskop - Very well said!!!

[Waaib]

6) People who wait three seconds after the light has turned green to go. Wake the **** up. What are you waiting for? Christmas? You might have all day, but my lunch hour is only an hour! Just go already.


I do this because once a taxi that had a color blind driver didn't notice the red light and t-boned the car in front of me. The person in the car had really bad breath and the CPR wasn't fun.

[hj2k_x]

I do this because once a taxi that had a color blind driver didn't notice the red light and t-boned the car in front of me. The person in the car had really bad breath and the CPR wasn't fun.

Seriously?

[Gnome]

I do this because once a taxi that had a color blind driver didn't notice the red light and t-boned the car in front of me. The person in the car had really bad breath and the CPR wasn't fun.

Is he blind or retarded by any chance as well? Because being colour blind you can still see where the light is, which is why colour blind people are allowed to drive cars (but not mentally disabled or blind people)

[henkk78]

Very nice post.

The reason I think so many of us take off the mirrors if because the idiot in his cage doesn't use it anyway. I have taken off a few, and every time it was only done after the stupid fool nearly knocked me off my bike by not checking his mirrors. Us Bikers make it a unspoken rule to make sure that you see the driver of the car in his mirrow before doing anything. If I can see him in his mirror he can see me. There is no excuse for changing lanes if I'm right next to your car and have a Yoshi Pipe the size of a Watermelon.

Some people in cages are just bloody idiots

Did you deliberately knock of the mirrors? Or by accident?


I am a biker myself and I very carefully do lane splitting. My attitude to biking is to always anticipate what cars will do.

A few months ago I was in Jo'burg, driving a rental car. I changed from middle to fast lane, in true K53 fashion, and as I started moving my car across I saw a biker approaching, fast. (I was going ± 100 km/h myself)

Although the biker was still relatively far behind me, I deliberately moved over further (and faster) to the right than necessary, feeling good about the fact that I'm helping out a fellow biker. I firmly believe that more bikes on the road will mean less traffic.

Nonetheless, the biker must have had to slow down from 140 to 120 or for some other reason was peeved.

He deliberately slammed the left hand side mirror of the car I was driving backwards!

I hooted and he gave me the finger.

Great job for making it impossible to now see any other bikers coming up to my left!

I really don't care if you want to show me your finger because I slowed you down a bit, but please do not mess with the safety of other people's cars.

That's just dumb.

[Gnome]

He deliberately slammed the left hand side mirror of the car I was driving backwards!

Wow, I might not be able to restrain myself in such a situation, when I get stuck in traffic after a bad day it takes a lot of self control for me to not snap and do something stupid like run full speed into a car that deliberately cuts me off (anyone else had those days?) or something like that, the guy on the bike might have ended up toast..

Dangerous practice if you ask me, especially if you drive a bike...

[henkk78]

He deliberately slammed the left hand side mirror of the car I was driving backwards!


I do mean he slammed the mirror backwards... not that I was driving backwards! :D

[henkk78]

Wow, I might not be able to restrain myself in such a situation, when I get stuck in traffic after a bad day it takes a lot of self control for me to not snap and do something stupid like run full speed into a car that deliberately cuts me off (anyone else had those days?) or something like that, the guy on the bike might have ended up toast..

Dangerous practice if you ask me, especially if you drive a bike...

I clearly visualized beating him so bad his grandchildren would still stutter...

[bwana]

I do this because once a taxi that had a color blind driver didn't notice the red light and t-boned the car in front of me. The person in the car had really bad breath and the CPR wasn't fun.Strange .
The traffic light, also known as traffic signal, stop light, traffic lamp, stop-and-go lights, robot or semaphore, is a signaling device positioned at a road intersection, pedestrian crossing, or other location. Its purpose is to indicate, using a series of colours (Red - Amber - Green), the correct moment to stop, drive, ride or walk, using a universal colour code (and a precise sequence, for those who are colour blind).You'd think he would have known.