Software piracy remains a problem

[rpm]

Software piracy remains a problem (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Software/3801.html)


Despite the drop by a single percentage point locally in the piracy of software on PCs from 2006 to 2007, industry losses rose to R1,9bn in 2007.

[milomak]

I wonder if people were schooled on Open Source alternatives how they would classify the same losses.

EDIT: I was once in a foreign country where my host needed their computer fixed. A technician from a reputable store in that country came over. He proceeded to pull out those CD jackets with almost any sort of non-gaming software you could imagine. The brazen nature of the way they operated shocked me.

Would be interesting to see which companies suffer the most from piracy. Although thinking about it there might have been an article posted on myadsl previously.

[km2]

I wonder if people were schooled on Open Source alternatives how they would classify the same losses.

Would be interesting to see which companies suffer the most from piracy. Although thinking about it there might have been an article posted on myadsl previously.

I think the key thing to remember is that these articles emphasise the losses to just the IT industry, rather than talking about the country as a whole. So if I take my spare R800 and spend it on Windows XP, R300 would go to the local channel and R500 to Microsoft the multinational corporation. On the other hand if I'd just pirated Windows and spent the R800 on a fancy restaurant all R800 would have gone to the local restaurant industry.

In theory while the local channel would hurt, South Africa would gain more by pirating because the restaurant generates more local employment than giving the R500 to Microsoft International. But that doesn't sound so nice in the press releases. :D

(obviously this only applies to piracy of international products, not local ones)

[eltherza]

The BSA released an economic impact study in January this year which found that reducing software piracy by 10% would create more employment and increase IT spend to R6bn.
...
However, because the worldwide PC market grew fastest in high-piracy countries,


Doesnt this article contradict itself? First it says "less piracy more jobs" and then onto "countries with high piracy expanded the PC market so much so quickly...". And of course expanding pc market means more jobs...

[Tns]

piracy will never go away completely.

[ghoti]

The country would save so much more money if it moved over to Open Source Solutions. That way you dont have to worry about paying silly orgs like BSA.

[MadMailMan]

Argh matee! :D

[adcadc]

Bull**** - none of the "big" software suppliers are based in SA. They might have local agents, but every cent profit they make leaves the country !!!:(
Because of all the money leaving the country, our trade defecit increases, which in turn causes the reserve bank to hike interest rates even more !!!!
My advice . . . pirate as much as you can . . . it is good for the country:p;):p;):p;)

[stormy]

I could be wrong but I dont think that RSA's piracy is second lowest in the region because of intervention by the law or any anti piracy actions.
I mean how many times have you heard about piracy busts?

Its simply because we dont have fast and cheap internet. At the moment piracy cost pirates money due to our expensive internet. If you download anything it cost you close or even more than actually buying it from a shop.. :p

Unfortunately we ALL either are or know people that download, copy or buy pirated movies,series,games etc.. Similarly do we all know thieves that steal money? I think not (hopefully). Thus piracy I would say will increase as our internet get cheaper. It will get alot worse before it gets better because face it, our government....onions and beetroot,.. Ivy...ICASA.. :sick:

Then again some argue that piracy is a necesarry evil, almost like advertising or getting people hooked on media first. Then when they change their ways they are very supportive and active buyers of legal media.. Nevermind the losses due to piracy, the profit from movies and games is still HUGE and increasing. But thats another discussion. :rolleyes:

[TimTDP]

reducing software piracy by 10% would create more employment

Why? How does one justify this statement?

[.Froot.]

Bull**** - none of the "big" software suppliers are based in SA. They might have local agents, but every cent profit they make leaves the country !!!:(
Because of all the money leaving the country, our trade defecit increases, which in turn causes the reserve bank to hike interest rates even more !!!!
My advice . . . pirate as much as you can . . . it is good for the country:p;):p;):p;)

Keep your voice down if you want to voice stuff like that. (Yeah I see you are new here).

[.Froot.]

piracy will never go away completely.

Just make Kill Bill more than a movie and piracy should drop by around 50%. Make open source alternatives to all the rich people's software and guess what... we have a full-scale Linux Revolution with close to zero piracy. Sounds good to me.

[.Froot.]

I could be wrong but I dont think that RSA's piracy is second lowest in the region because of intervention by the law or any anti piracy actions.
I mean how many times have you heard about piracy busts?

Its simply because we dont have fast and cheap internet. At the moment piracy cost pirates money due to our expensive internet. If you download anything it cost you close or even more than actually buying it from a shop.. :p

Unfortunately we ALL either are or know people that download, copy or buy pirated movies,series,games etc.. Similarly do we all know thieves that steal money? I think not (hopefully). Thus piracy I would say will increase as our internet get cheaper. It will get alot worse before it gets better because face it, our government....onions and beetroot,.. Ivy...ICASA.. :sick:

Then again some argue that piracy is a necesarry evil, almost like advertising or getting people hooked on media first. Then when they change their ways they are very supportive and active buyers of legal media.. Nevermind the losses due to piracy, the profit from movies and games is still HUGE and increasing. But thats another discussion. :rolleyes:

I agree. Taking a 4GB game as an example, this would cost 4xR65/GB =R260 to download plus seeding -> ~R300 to download a game. Most games cost around this region. I don't play games so I don't lose out on this one but isn't it actually cheaper to buy games then?

[lcbxx]

I would like to see how/where/what they used to calculate the R1.9bn, together with with "10% reduction will create more employment" claim

[ghoti]

Piracy is good for your country.. hehe.. thats actually true! I forgot about that one!

[killadoob]

actually piracy creates jobs

look at all the pirate websites, they generate millions and millions

look at this way, if the world was a safe place and everyone got along you would not need armies or police or security guards, imaging the impact of those jobs loses

its the same with piracy, it creates jobs, the ppl who create software, movies, games etc are still stinking rich they are not just not as stinking rich as they should be :)

piracy has its place in life just like crime (im not talking about violent crime)

[gdiza]

I would like to see how/where/what they used to calculate the R1.9bn, together with with "10% reduction will create more employment" claim

I'd like to see this too lcbxx! :rolleyes:

[Garyvdh]

This article pops up in its various forms about 4 times a year!

We discussed the same thing already once since the beginning of the year.

Anyway... the worst pirates are those companies which charge 2-3 times the value of the software compared to what we would pay for it in its home country.

Microsoft is also one of the worst offenders often charging more for the software than the value of the hardware which it runs on.

Until you deal with these industrial size pirates, the small time pirates are not going to go away, because they just cannot afford to stay in business or turn a profit with these prices.

The BSA is a criminal organisation using Mafia style tactics in a protection style racket to preserve the interests of its mob bosses. The Government ought to ban them and open up the industry properly to free competition.

And +1 for the promotion of Free Software. If people were educated about the alternatives out there, this "figure" would probably be much much lower (not that I agree with the accuracy of these figures anyway).

The public are not THAT stupid!!!

[lcbxx]

Another thing that contributes to piracy is the price of software. One tends to forget that $1 is like R1 for Americans, and not R7.65. That would explain why piracy is so high in places like Zim, where Z$6m equals about R60.

Imagine what a R550 PS3 game costs over there! Piracy ftZIMw!

[ettubrute]

If they drop the price of software to affordable levels, more people will buy instead of pirate, thus increasing the turnover, extra employment, and less piracy! Economics 101, which it seems the BSA and software makers have failed! :p

/me notices last two posters also tackled same issue... me is typing too slow! ;)

[EtienneK]

For the thousandth time: Pirating software != loss of sales!

So saying piracy is costing the country R1.9 billion is bull!

[biltonguy]

I dont get these articles...

bottom line: 99% of software comes from overseas. By buying a copy of windows instead of pirating it, im effectively keeping money in SA. I would rather spend my money on something that injects it back into SA.

Sure, R1.9bn is being drained from local software agents and other local software resellers. But by pirating, SA is also saving about R8bn (just a guess) that would be destined for overseas pockets. AND that "drained" R1.9bn is probably being spent elsewhere in the economy anyway.

Seems the only people that are moaning are international software houses and their local resellers. The rest of SA is winning! I am not saying pirating is right, but dont tell me the cons outweigh the pros.

Can someone explain? Am I missing something?

[Snekko]

We're in a 3rd World Country...................

[eltherza]

But by law piracy is not ethical, so one should not support piracy at all. Instead use free open source software.

By using open source, the companies will still lose the billions (international companies mostly), SA will create jobs, save people money and keep the money within south africa all LEGALLY.

The fact that companies will still lose billions if open source is encouraged is the main reason why it's never mentioned.

[reech]

How do they calculate their 'losses' ? Surely they wouldn't assume that everyone using a pirate copy would have bought a legit version!?

[kifoth]

Read this, and then tell Microsoft's BSA cronies to go **** themselves:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070803-shocker-microsoft-combats-chinese-piracy-via-major-price-cuts.html

They're happy to slash software prices in 'important' markets like China, but when it comes to SA, we still get price raped.

[ettubrute]

Price raping in SA is due to one fact, and one fact only: consumers who buy for the sake of having, or, put differently, keeping up with the Jones... If the consumer would learn to boycott suppliers by NOT buying overpriced items, and rather do without the newest, latest, greatest, blingest, then the prices WILL drop, since the goods are manufactured already, and by reducing the price the supplier at least covers his expenses if not making a slightly smaller profit. But it takes only ONE consumer to break a boycott like this, and the prices will never drop...

[kifoth]

Price raping in SA is due to one fact, and one fact only: consumers who buy for the sake of having, or, put differently, keeping up with the Jones... If the consumer would learn to boycott suppliers by NOT buying overpriced items, and rather do without the newest, latest, greatest, blingest, then the prices WILL drop, since the goods are manufactured already, and by reducing the price the supplier at least covers his expenses if not making a slightly smaller profit. But it takes only ONE consumer to break a boycott like this, and the prices will never drop...

Microsoft cut their prices in China precisely because piracy rates were sitting at 90% +. If we want to see a price cut, the answer is obviously to pirate more. The big companies appear to be quite happy with a 34% rate. They only seem to sit up and take notice when the rates edge closer to 80/90%

More interesting Ars Technica here: http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/book-review-2008-05.ars

[stormy]

Right. Lets be serious now. Lets not limit discusions with Microsoft here..

Example -
Building a hard drive:
A company say "HardCore" build hard drives.
Jack works for them. Jack has 3 snotnose kids and a lovely wife to support.
All of a sudden "HardCore" cannot sell any more harddrives because consumers rather buy a cheap bad component copied version by some illegal company. "HardCore" goes down. Jack lose his job. His kiddies become the next generations gangsters.

Now:
Building a Software Program:
A company say "HardCore" develop Software.
Jack works for them. Jack has 3 snotnose kids and a lovely wife to support.
All of a sudden "HardCore" cannot sell any more software copies because consumers rather pirate illegally. "HardCore" goes down. Jack lose his job. His kiddies become the next generations gangsters.

I work for a software company.
If the customers we supply to decide to rather pirate my company will go down, and I will lose my job.
It takes MILLIONS to create software here in South Africa.
This CAN be pirated.

Piracy is the same as stealing a TV at Hi-FiCorp.
Its just ALOT easier.
And its really really wrong.

Decreasing prices of Games,DVDs will never beat FREE but stolen.
Do the right thing that your mommy taught u :D

[EtienneK]

Piracy is the same as stealing a TV at Hi-FiCorp.

Fail!

[Tanarri]

Piracy is the same as stealing a TV at Hi-FiCorp.
Its just ALOT easier.
And its really really wrong.

Decreasing prices of Games,DVDs will never beat FREE but stolen.
Do the right thing that your mommy taught u :D

Dude please give me break. I can say that driving faster than the speed limit and not stopping dead at the stop sign is against the law. It's just as bad as 'stealing a TV.' Guess what you people who would refrain at every corner from 'pirating' aren't angels. Stop giving yourself so much credit.

But don't get me wrong. I don't support piracy. I try to buy the games I want to play. Have I pirated? Yes. I also have quite a grand collection of original titles.

IMO people who spend their lives criticising piracy should just take a LONG GOOD look at their own lives. Then decide whether they want to judge other people based on laws and morals.

[stormy]

Hey Hey I never said im perfect. Not at all. Im a solid hypocryte. Just like U :)
Quote: "I dont condone piracy" yet I pirate.

Dont shoot the hypocryte preacher when he is right.
We all know a broken clock is right twice a day though :)

All im saying its stealing beacause it cost millions to make that product you are copieng for free. It hurts the company, and a company is people with lives, kids,family, friends very much like your own.

How would you like it if people steal from your company and cause you to lose your job?

DONT justify your actions using microsoft as an excuse.
Sega had to close their doors almost in the time of the Mega Drive and has never really recovered. Not buying originals will void the companies that make those games = no pirates to copy = no games or products

mmm now what is that torrent site's name again... :D

[EtienneK]

Hey Hey I never said im perfect. Not at all. Im a solid hypocryte. Just like U :)
Quote: "I dont condone piracy" yet I pirate.

Dont shoot the hypocryte preacher when he is right.
We all know a broken clock is right twice a day though :)

All im saying its stealing beacause it cost millions to make that product you are copieng for free. It hurts the company, and a company is people with lives, kids,family, friends very much like your own.

How would you like it if people steal from your company and cause you to lose your job?

DONT justify your actions using microsoft as an excuse.
Sega had to close their doors almost in the time of the Mega Drive and has never really recovered. Not buying originals will void the companies that make those games = no pirates to copy = no games or products

mmm now what is that torrent site's name again... :D

... Dude, you need help!...

If your family goes without food, I can promise you it won't be the piracy that made you lose your job...

[adcadc]

The problem with all the software vendors is a lack of competition. The old story of supply and demand. I own a small company running 8x Windows based PC's. I am forced to use windows, as my very expensive industry specific programs don't work on any other platform. Even the price of our local software (accounting) is ridiculous. Don't try and give me the crap that that the local software is being pirated.
My packages all require either a dongel, or activation. No self respecting cracker or hacker has taken the time to crack the stuff I'm forced to use. Instead the local companies force me to pay annual renewals, and R1200 per call, so that we can figure out how their poorly written software works. We get audited by the industry bodies to verify our licenses. All this cost me about R40k a year. What do I get in return for all of this ???? . . . grief !!! Because of all of this, I've got no problem with piracy.

[km2]

Right. Lets be serious now. Lets not limit discusions with Microsoft here..

Now:
Building a Software Program:
A company say "HardCore" develop Software.
Jack works for them. Jack has 3 snotnose kids and a lovely wife to support.
All of a sudden "HardCore" cannot sell any more software copies because consumers rather pirate illegally. "HardCore" goes down. Jack lose his job. His kiddies become the next generations gangsters.


Yeah, fair enough, but on the other hand if you're buying from HardCore you use up money which you may have had to spend on something else. We're not all Scrooge McDuck here with our big old money bin, we've only got a limited amount of money which we get to spend each month. If one person gets it, then another person won't.

So if I buy from HardCore then some OTHER company would have ended up having "losses" because I would not be able to afford to buy both. In my first example this was the restaurant industry, because they always get hit first when people don't have spare money to throw around. Your choice is whether you want to turn HardCore's kids into gangsters... or turn the restaurants owners/staff's kids into gangsters.

Of course the great thing about the restaurant is that with most software companies being international, MORE money stays in the country via the restaurant so we can prevent more kids from becoming gangsters by piracy. Think of the children, pirate! :D

(now I'm not arguing about piracy from any moral point-of-view, purely from a South African economic one. So try and hold your patriotism in! :eek:)

[Garyvdh]

...and how is price gouging any MORE ethical or moral than piracy?

Software companies and retailers that put up their prices because there is little competition or not enough distribution channels are just as bad as the pirates in my book. It is piracy in another form. They are holding the customers blackmail... their attitude is "so our software is hard to get hold of, well therefore you are going to pay a premium for it".

The solution is not more piracy, it is...

1) Free and Open Source Software
2) Widespread Distribution Channels and Easy Access
3) Competitive, Fair, Realistic, Flexible and Transparent Pricing
4) Honest and Meaningful Long-term Support
5) A fair approach to International Distribution

I know that I can probably not pay the same here in South Africa as I would for a piece of software that sells at $10.00 at Best Buy in the USA. If it is imported then I would expect to pay a reasonable premium for that. But 2 to 3 times the value? That is utterly ridiculous and just as criminal. And even worse for software that is pressed and boxed locally (like most Microsoft products).

Take overseas magazines at CNA for example. The cover price of the magazine says $7.99. That is R61.50 when converted into Rands... but CNA is charging R150.00 for the magazine... more than double it's price in the USA. You cannot tell me that it costs that much to ship it here! Are they shipping it via overnight express? I refuse to buy magazines anymore at CNA cos they are criminals. Same applies to a lot of the DVDs, Console Games and Software for sale through major retailers in South Africa.

WE KNOW WHEN WE ARE BEING RIPPED OFF!

[Garyvdh]

oh, and while we are on the subject...

This business of putting copy protection onto legitimate products and warning about piracy in the form of Adverts on DVDs is absolutely INSULTING and ludicrous! Why treat those who buy legitimate products like criminals.

Why should I (who have bought a legal copy of a DVD) have to sit through the same anti-piracy ad EVERY SINGLE time I watch the DVD.

I would love to give SAFACT and the BSA and all those similar organisations a big klap for giving all of us a big F-you every time we have to watch that or hassle with that DRM or copy - protection crap.

copy-protection is not our problem... it is yours... you deal with it.... don't force me to do your work for you!

You want to know why piracy is so bad?? Because people don't want to watch those stupid ads at the beginning of their DVDS!!!!!!

Catch a wake-up and fire the moron idiot who thought up that idea.:mad::mad:

[km2]

Sega had to close their doors almost in the time of the Mega Drive and has never really recovered. Not buying originals will void the companies that make those games = no pirates to copy = no games or products

Sega got into trouble through their own incompetence (http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/01/03/the-downfall-of-sega-part-1). They produced bad addons like the 32x and CD, and then finally bungled the whole release of the Sega Saturn. The PlayStation killed Sega off finally, not piracy. Compare that to how much piracy there is for the PS/PS2, and yet Sony STILL makes money from the PS2 hand over fist.

And it looks like they're still being utterly incompetent since recently they announced another $500 million loss (http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/05/14/sega-sammy-posts-500-million-loss)...

[stormy]

Thanks guys. :D
Had a nice laugh with this tread.
We are all so damn human and imperfect.

[gregmcc]

still a problem....for who? Its not like the fat cats that get all the money can't afford petrol any more!


Take overseas magazines at CNA for example.

Don't get me started on that!!! :mad:

I can never understand the markup on magazines, 100% import duty + 100% markup + another 100% markup and you get close to the selling price.

[jeinnor30]

One of my customers was so excited and could not wait for the new GTA, when it arrived, he pre ordered his ORIGINAL copy, he says he has played 10 % of the game and says that it is a total let down.

Now the problem is that he has spent money on something that he probably wont finish, it also seems that there are many other people who are having the same complaint, that the game just is not as good as the others.

I do not believe software piracy is cool or right in anyway, however, the people that develop these games are always saying how much money they are losing because of software piracy and yet they are developing games that are a total let down, so now, who is going to go after them because of ****ty games that people are paying :D

[MadMailMan]

There is only one problem with piracy in this country. The price of bandwidth! Aargh aarrgh me matees. :D

[BSA]

Hi there, just a few explanations to add the conversation:


One of the main points raised asked how piracy affects the local South African economy. Information technology drives economic growth through helping organisations and employees to be more productive, creating jobs and higher standards of living. How? Reducing software piracy has a ‘multiplier effect’ – for every R1 spent on legitimate software, which does go to the manufacturer, an additional R1.25 is spent on related services such as installation, training, maintenance and distribution. All this goes directly into the local economy.

http://w3.bsa.org/southafrica/press/newsreleases/PR-1-28-2008.cfm


In terms of your comments regarding open source software, these were considered in the calculations and open source, freeware and shareware were not considered pirated. This software is accounted for with the price of R0 and any open source software that is paid for would automatically be accounted for inline with the methodology. So this software does not affect the piracy figures.


We also understand that not every piece of pirated software would be replaced immediately with licensed software if piracy rates went down, the evidence suggests that all pirated software will be replaced with legitimate software over time, because people need good software.


In South Africa, a number of local companies have paid fines for the possession of unlicensed software. Enforcement and educational drives by the BSA have had an effect with a 1% percentage point drop in the piracy figures in 2007.


Alastair de Wet, Business Software Alliance

[Garyvdh]

Yes, the BSA helped us move our company completely to Open Source. It was through their efforts that we moved our Financial System to TurboCash, Our Office requirements to OpenOffice, and our CRM to Compiere. The only licenses we have to worry about now are the Windows XP licenses. We plan to migrate those in the next year to Linux as well! Well done! ;)

FOSS FTW!!! :D

oh and... RAS for the above post BTW! :p

[km2]

Reducing software piracy has a ‘multiplier effect’ – for every R1 spent on legitimate software, which does go to the manufacturer, an additional R1.25 is spent on related services such as installation, training, maintenance and distribution. All this goes directly into the local economy.

I'm not sure how this would be different between pirated and unpirated software though? Someone has to be paid to install pirated software, you still need people to be trained on it, and computers with pirated software still need maintenance (fair point about distribution). This still pumps money into the local economy.


We also understand that not every piece of pirated software would be replaced immediately with licensed software if piracy rates went down, the evidence suggests that all pirated software will be replaced with legitimate software over time...

By removing the pirated software (and not replacing it immediately) you would end up removing both the pirated software AND the locally based installation+training+maintenance. Even if one did eventually replace the software, wouldn't you be talking about a good few months (years?) during which you'd be hurting the local industry?

[kifoth]

In terms of your comments regarding open source software, these were considered in the calculations and open source, freeware and shareware were not considered pirated.

Hi Alastair

Does the BSA endorse using Open Source software (Linux, for example) as an alternative to pirating the equivalent commercial software?

Yes/no answer, if possible? :)

[icyrus]

Hi there, just a few explanations to add the conversation:


One of the main points raised asked how piracy affects the local South African economy. Information technology drives economic growth through helping organisations and employees to be more productive, creating jobs and higher standards of living. How? Reducing software piracy has a ‘multiplier effect’ – for every R1 spent on legitimate software, which does go to the manufacturer, an additional R1.25 is spent on related services such as installation, training, maintenance and distribution. All this goes directly into the local economy.

http://w3.bsa.org/southafrica/press/newsreleases/PR-1-28-2008.cfm


In terms of your comments regarding open source software, these were considered in the calculations and open source, freeware and shareware were not considered pirated. This software is accounted for with the price of R0 and any open source software that is paid for would automatically be accounted for inline with the methodology. So this software does not affect the piracy figures.


We also understand that not every piece of pirated software would be replaced immediately with licensed software if piracy rates went down, the evidence suggests that all pirated software will be replaced with legitimate software over time, because people need good software.


In South Africa, a number of local companies have paid fines for the possession of unlicensed software. Enforcement and educational drives by the BSA have had an effect with a 1% percentage point drop in the piracy figures in 2007.


Alastair de Wet, Business Software Alliance

Your bullsh*t FUD is not welcome here. Go peddle your crap where there are more ignorant, less informed people, you will have more success.

[km2]

Your bullsh*t FUD is not welcome here. Go peddle your crap where there are more ignorant, less informed people, you will have more success.

I prefer it when it's coming straight from "Alastair de Wet, BSA" rather than the same spin being published as front page news on MyBroadband via SA Computing who take it as gospel truth. At least we are totally clear on whose perspective it is.

[AK65]

BSA = Microsoft's Goons

Piracy in software is similar to music piracy.

Pirated software doesn't give users any problems. No dongles, no copy protection, no activation etc.

I got so annoyed at problems posed by proprietary software:

i.e. forced 'upgrades', vendor lock-in, inattention to fixing bugs etc.. I eventually ditched proprietary software for open source and have never looked back.

My path:

Started with Legit copy of Win '98. Bought another machine and installed a pirate copy of 98. It didn't work so I bought a copy of XP. This worked nicely. Bought another two machines and installed a legit and pirate copy of XP. Then eventually after succumbing to the BSA bullying, bought a legit copy of XP. What really p***ed me off was when I had hardware failures being treated like a criminal and having to explain myself to Microsoft. Also every time Windows crashes, I had to re-activate and explain again to Microsoft. Imagaine that, treating your paying customer like a criminal.

However, with the software I was running I had to continuously 'upgrade' both hardware (which became 'legacy' and unsupported, and software (essentially paying for a new version of the software which had a face-lift, but the same bugs). Not to mention the plug-ins, which only work on the software platform. One big mess. Cost me many thousands per year for zero increase in product quality.

Then I discovered open source software. Now none of my machines are on Windows (well done, BSA goons!) and they don't run *any* proprietary software. The open source equivalents are just as good, and I don't have hassles. No dongles, threats, vendor lock-in. Freedom, bliss. I'll never go back.

I also agree with the other posters: the 'cost' of piracy is much less than what is being estimated, because a lot of pirates can't afford and wouldn't buy legitimate copies of software, they would just go without. I mean, some hack who uses a pirate copy of photoshop, would not go and buy it if he was found out. He'd just find something else to use.....

What I really would like to see is the FSF or the FOSS movement putting out some press that spells out the free alternatives to the BSA goons scaremongering tactics.

Imagine, an ad that says: "Did you know that there are free, legal, alternatives to the pirated software you use? The BSA is trying to scare you into paying to use their software. Don't pay for software, rather use free alternatives! That's how Mark Shuttleworth made his fortune"

[.Froot.]

+1 for the good mofo post above. Let the BSA screw M$ and turn it into a won war for open source....

[BSA]

Hi Kifoth,

The BSA’s role is to protect the rights of the software industry as a whole. BSA supports consumer choice as to the type of software that is right for users, regardless of the development model. However, all software should be legal, whether that is through commercial licensing or open source.

Alastair de Wet, Business Solftware Alliance

[.Froot.]

Hi Kifoth,

The BSA’s role is to protect the rights of the software industry as a whole. BSA supports consumer choice as to the type of software that is right for users, regardless of the development model. However, all software should be legal, whether that is through commercial licensing or open source.

Alastair de Wet, Business Solftware Alliance

Well let's give the BSA a hand for a job well done. :D

[ghoti]

Hi Kifoth,

The BSA’s role is to protect the rights of the software industry as a whole. BSA supports consumer choice as to the type of software that is right for users, regardless of the development model. However, all software should be legal, whether that is through commercial licensing or open source.

Alastair de Wet, Business Solftware Alliance

Thats great... however while you may be in the market of protecting the software companies from us... whos out there protecting us from you and the software companies?

Why should EULA`s be allowed? If I buy a car... it doesnt come with a EULA... if a car manufacturer releases his product with a flaw in it, that manufacturer is held accountable for it. This doesnt happen in the software world. The scales are very uneven.

If MS wanted to lock down Microsoft Windows... they WOULD. They dont because they would prefer you to use their pirated product OVER an open source alternative.

So basically BSA just looks after big money software companies at the cost of the consumer.

[ghoti]

Also, one the subjects, one of the BSA propaganda lines was that piracy is costing SA 30k jobs. Well legitimate software like Microsoft is costing SA even more jobs. Every time we _have_ to install windows... we are importing more and adding to the national deficit. Now if we refused all imports and home grew our own products... we would create more jobs! :)

I wish I could find that post about the time you completely defecated on Open Source in a public radio interview. I was so angry with your half-truths (a half truth is a whole lie!) Wish I could get a transcription of that interview :(

[Mastercarder]

actually piracy creates jobs

look at all the pirate websites, they generate millions and millions

look at this way, if the world was a safe place and everyone got along you would not need armies or police or security guards, imaging the impact of those jobs loses

its the same with piracy, it creates jobs, the ppl who create software, movies, games etc are still stinking rich they are not just not as stinking rich as they should be :)

piracy has its place in life just like crime (im not talking about violent crime)

I like you. I think we should move to Canada and get married, kapish? :p

[Mastercarder]

Ok - a serious post from me. I bought a copy of a certain site-planning program (local company). It cost R500 and was UTTER ****E. Message to local software companies: You fuc|<ing suck - don't bother.

My entire music collection is pirated. If I had not ben able to get it free would I have just accepted that and paid for it? No way; I'd rather go without seeing as the cost of purchasing those meagre 215 or so songs on iTunes, for example, would cost over R1500. LOL, whatever... :rolleyes:

That said, my entire DVD collection is legit. Particularly expensive software titles such as Adobe Premiere and Photoshop are also pirated.

'Stealing' from massive multinational companies is not at all the same as stealing from small local ones and if my downloading means Tom Cruise/50 Cent/Bill Gates etc have to go with one less diamond-encrusted toilet in their mansions, I realy couldn't give.

[ghoti]

The BSA/RIAA and MPAA are ANTI consumer companies. Theyre pretty evil all round. Honesty is something they have no concept of it effect their bottom dollar. They dont care bit about you.. just the profit they can get off you.

[ghoti]

BSA says


We also understand that not every piece of pirated software would be replaced immediately with licensed software if piracy rates went down, the evidence suggests that all pirated software will be replaced with legitimate software over time, because people need good software.

Could you please show us this "evidence". I know you chaps.. you make up stuff as you go along so we do need to check every word you say, and double check your "facts".


Im willing to say:

Piracy helps the South African national deficit.
Piracy stops consumers from being ripped off by software and/or music labels
Piracy creates more jobs in South Africa than not pirating
Piracy even helps the software vendors. It keeps lusers addicted to their crack software instead of using the more reasonable alternative.

[.Froot.]

For gdiza and the other guys who are anti-BSA and pro-opensource. Tea can do that.