Telkom proclaims ADSL vindication [Archive]

antowan

05-02-2004, 02:04 PM

ORIGINAL TEXT TO BE FOUND AT: http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/internet/2004/0402051159.asp

Telkom proclaims ADSL vindication

BY WARWICK ASHFORD, ITWEB JOURNALIST

[Johannesburg, 5 February 2004] - Despite complaints from several quarters, independent research shows the majority of asymmetrical subscriber line (ADSL) users are happy with Telkom's service and offering.

“A large independent research company confirms that 87% of business users and 84.3% of domestic users rated Telkom's ADSL service as excellent, very good, or good,” says Steven White, Telkom product development executive.

“We now have proof that most ADSL users are happy with the service.”

White says the survey shows that contrary to many recent media reports, very few ADSL users are dissatisfied. “I am now open to audit.”

Telkom ADSL users have argued vehemently against issues such as the pricing and the 3GB data cap, and a group of disgruntled users have gone so far as to launch a Web site to discuss their frustrations. ITWeb readers complaining about the service say that as soon as they exceed the limit, their Internet connection becomes so slow that it is virtually non-existent.

“The research was based on a significant sample of 790 ADSL clients,” says Hans Van De Groenendaal, Telkom corporate communications senior manager. “We think the sample is a good representation of users' experience with roughly equal numbers of business and residential users included in the sample.”

Telkom hopes to further improve the level of user satisfaction by expanding its ADSL services to new areas and markets.

“Some areas have not been able to access ADSL because of fibre optic links instead of the required copper wire links between the digital subscriber line access multiplexors (DSLAMs) and users,” says White. “It was simply not practical to put 480-port DSLAMs in street junction boxes to serve only a handful of users.”

This has changed with the introduction of mini-DSLAMs with 12 to 48 ports. “Using the new mini-DSLAMs, we expect to start expanding our ADSL services into these formerly excluded areas very soon.”

In addition to expanding service areas, Telkom plans to make a new premium service available that is less restricted than the standard offering. “This service has yet to be finalised,” says White, “but it will be sold in 1GB increments and will be aimed at online stock traders and gamers.”

Although aimed at gamers, he says it will not be suitable for those wanting to use peer-to-peer applications. “These users should get a leased-line.”

White says the survey results are gratifying considering the effort Telkom has made to provide the best ADSL service at the lowest possible price. “We have done our best to make ADSL sustainable and affordable, and hope to drive down the cost even further as the number of users increases and more sophisticated billing technologies become available.”

Industry experts reacted cautiously to the claims, saying they are reluctant to comment on the results without seeing the full sample and methodology used.

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous

antowan

05-02-2004, 02:06 PM

If the price comes down before a 3rd operator (note not a 2nd one) arrives, I will eat my Pocket PC's nylon cover! [:D]

I also think they used some very wealthy people for the survey! People who know nothing about the technology, who can afford to pay too much for a service like this and who don't know that this service exists somewhere else on this planet from which we can learn how it should be done...

Cheers
Antowan

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by antowan
 ORIGINAL TEXT TO BE FOUND AT: http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/internet/2004/0402051159.asp

Telkom proclaims ADSL vindication

BY WARWICK ASHFORD, ITWEB JOURNALIST

[Johannesburg, 5 February 2004] - Despite complaints from several quarters, independent research shows the majority of asymmetrical subscriber line (ADSL) users are happy with Telkom's service and offering.

“A large independent research company confirms that 87% of business users and 84.3% of domestic users rated Telkom's ADSL service as excellent, very good, or good,” says Steven White, Telkom product development executive.

“We now have proof that most ADSL users are happy with the service.”

White says the survey shows that contrary to many recent media reports, very few ADSL users are dissatisfied. “I am now open to audit.”

Telkom ADSL users have argued vehemently against issues such as the pricing and the 3GB data cap, and a group of disgruntled users have gone so far as to launch a Web site to discuss their frustrations. ITWeb readers complaining about the service say that as soon as they exceed the limit, their Internet connection becomes so slow that it is virtually non-existent.

“The research was based on a significant sample of 790 ADSL clients,” says Hans Van De Groenendaal, Telkom corporate communications senior manager. “We think the sample is a good representation of users' experience with roughly equal numbers of business and residential users included in the sample.”

Telkom hopes to further improve the level of user satisfaction by expanding its ADSL services to new areas and markets.

“Some areas have not been able to access ADSL because of fibre optic links instead of the required copper wire links between the digital subscriber line access multiplexors (DSLAMs) and users,” says White. “It was simply not practical to put 480-port DSLAMs in street junction boxes to serve only a handful of users.”

This has changed with the introduction of mini-DSLAMs with 12 to 48 ports. “Using the new mini-DSLAMs, we expect to start expanding our ADSL services into these formerly excluded areas very soon.”

In addition to expanding service areas, Telkom plans to make a new premium service available that is less restricted than the standard offering. “This service has yet to be finalised,” says White, “but it will be sold in 1GB increments and will be aimed at online stock traders and gamers.”

Although aimed at gamers, he says it will not be suitable for those wanting to use peer-to-peer applications. “These users should get a leased-line.”

White says the survey results are gratifying considering the effort Telkom has made to provide the best ADSL service at the lowest possible price. “We have done our best to make ADSL sustainable and affordable, and hope to drive down the cost even further as the number of users increases and more sophisticated billing technologies become available.”

Industry experts reacted cautiously to the claims, saying they are reluctant to comment on the results without seeing the full sample and methodology used.

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous

armitage

05-02-2004, 02:36 PM

kewl white says that he's open to audit therefore we can request the audit reports documents an c actually who the survey targeted.

Proud South african rip offs.

ipodmusicman

05-02-2004, 02:55 PM

Perhaps they should survey potential customers .. i.e those who really want a broadband connection at home, but are not getting one because of high prices, poor product offering, etc.

That will tell a totally different story.

kaspaas

05-02-2004, 03:53 PM

Where those interviewed informed about the ADSL costs and "packages" (speeds cap sizes etc) in other countries and then asked if they were satisfied?

It would be very difficult to comment unless the structure of the process was known, the structure of those questioned know in terms of monthly bandwidth usage.

It is however difficult to put the claims of 80% plus satisfaction and the previous statements of more than 20% subscribers exceeding the 3GB cap together in a meaningful way.

I do believe that Markinor would try to do a professional job - within the constraints set by the client Telkom.

So it is up to Telkom/Markinor to open the books and proof the claims made by Telkom. That will give disgruntled users the opportunity to hack at the weak spots of the survey.

I do however like the timing of the release - just when it seems as if Sentech is starting to get over some of their teething problems.

South Africa needs World Class Broadband at World Competitive Prices.

rpm

05-02-2004, 03:55 PM

Hi Antowan and others

I was asked to comment on the issue, but unfortunately it was just too late for publication. I think it is a good idea to add some comment to this story at ITWeb.

Regards,

RPM
rpm@myadsl.co.za

microfast

05-02-2004, 04:01 PM

I spoke to Markinor last year and because I was not
interviewed I would not have right to the "audit.

Any person interviewed has a right to the "audit"
and the right to take the "audit" to some body -
maybe it's the "DMA" i'm not sure and have the process
verified.

Phone Markinor and ask the top girls for the details.

Be nice to get an independant view on the actual survey
and verify that what was written was what was said.

Andre

05-02-2004, 04:08 PM

martin

05-02-2004, 04:09 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
“The research was based on a significant sample of 790 ADSL clients,” says Hans Van De Groenendaal, Telkom corporate communications senior manager.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes of course... those people will reflect my exact feelings towards ADSL. WTF? [}:)]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Although aimed at gamers, he says it will not be suitable for those wanting to use peer-to-peer applications. “These users should get a leased-line.”
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That is probably the worst suggestion ever. [:D]

microfast

05-02-2004, 04:16 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by antowan
“We now have proof that most ADSL users are happy with the service.”
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

yeh, and in 1939 the majority of Germans were happy with Hitler.[}:)]

yeh, and in the seventies the "majority" were happy with die krokodil [:o)]

yeh, and in most african countries everyone is so happy just to get a line.

We all know better now !

We are so indoctrinated with the "pay as you speak" history.

Pavlov

05-02-2004, 04:18 PM

I wonder if the "sample" of people queried included any people who have been capped in the last three months?

My money is on the "sample" being people in the lower to middle of the curve, who use the internet in the way Telkom expects them too - ie only visit web sites and read email, hardly use FTP and certainly have never heard of Kazaa.

antowan

05-02-2004, 04:29 PM

I wonder what Telkom's beef is with p2p. Ask any tech buff and he/she will tell you that p2p is the way of the future. It is about more than just file sharing, it is a whole new way of thinking!

Aaaaarrrggghh!!!! [:(]

Cheers
Antowan

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pavlov
 I wonder if the "sample" of people queried included any people who have been capped in the last three months?

My money is on the "sample" being people in the lower to middle of the curve, who use the internet in the way Telkom expects them too - ie only visit web sites and read email, hardly use FTP and certainly have never heard of Kazaa.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous

kaspaas

05-02-2004, 04:38 PM

IP-telephony is also P2P....

It does not matter if Telkom likes it or not, but that is the way of the future.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by antowan
 
I wonder what Telkom's beef is with p2p. Ask any tech buff and he/she will tell you that p2p is the way of the future. It is about more than just file sharing, it is a whole new way of thinking!

Aaaaarrrggghh!!!! [:(]

Cheers
Antowan

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pavlov
 I wonder if the "sample" of people queried included any people who have been capped in the last three months?

My money is on the "sample" being people in the lower to middle of the curve, who use the internet in the way Telkom expects them too - ie only visit web sites and read email, hardly use FTP and certainly have never heard of Kazaa.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

South Africa needs World Class Broadband at World Competitive Prices.

Pavlov

05-02-2004, 04:39 PM

I have this image of a monotone domini type charactor standing at a pulpit reading from a leather bound telkom branded book marked - how to use the internet, published in 1972.

Us 13 odd % of the ADSL community are going to Internet HELL - hang on ... are we not there already?

Tell-Kom: Telling them what they can do ... and providing one HELL of a service.

doekvoet

05-02-2004, 05:57 PM

Yeah - its very easy to manipulate a survey outcome upfront by structuring the questions in such a way that the outcome must be positive andTelkom being the client in this case - could have prescibed the type of question.

I for one moment do not believe the results - it is easy to do a survey in rich areas as stated by a pevious contributor - and get a good result.

Would be interresting if the members of this forum be allowed to put together such a survey questionnaire - and then hopefully get a true reflection of what is going on.

In the past week or so the internet is so damn slow that it is even a battle to open news24 - let alone trying to download something through kaza.

Can't wait for sentech to launch in cape Town - maybe I can then get something downloaded for a change.

ASnogarD

05-02-2004, 06:18 PM

I am suprised no one brought up the bit :" significant sample of 790 ADSL clients " was "We think the sample is a good representation of users' experience " when the 1000 + forum members here represent a minority of disgruntled users.

Rather a double standard , no ?

MaD

05-02-2004, 07:26 PM

The people that are happy are just relieved they have an extra R5,000 to spend now that they got rid of their 64K Diginet line. They probably just check their e-mail all day which is local anyway, and maybe ummmmm horoscopes, and the odd smutty website overseas which their friend mailed them the link to. Not your average user by a long shot, dial-up would cost them the same per month.

Telkom, please furnish me with all the numbers of people surveyed, and I will call each one of them and just by-the-by mention overseas prices, their lack of caps and SLA's which will make you stick your head in the sand. They are grossly unaware of offerings in other countries, even Oz is cheaper and they're much further from anything than us.

But check, what, 84% said either Excellent, Very Good, or Good - 83.9% said good the other 1% musta said excellent or very good.

I just hope they weren't asking the secretaries or housewives at these biz's/homes their opinions but rather the people that use the line! People that have DSL at home are the people that know they need it, and that it is a grossly inadequate service for the price and what they need it for.

So even if TK does come down in price (which will be paltry i'm sure) I'm going with Sentech based purely on principle. If there is any way to screw Telkom over i would do it in a big way.

________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

onionpeel

05-02-2004, 07:57 PM

The poll result is bull and we all know that.
Telkom could easily query their database to find a few thousand subscribers who are likely to give them a favourable vote. They would then hand this list over to Markinor who would unknowingly 'confirm the selection criteria' Telkom used to get the list of subscribers.

I don't buy into any Telkom survey in which Telkom or any other organisation is involved. I have seen how their Dirty Tricks Department schemes and it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't money changing hands under the table either or key individuals being blackmailed.

Due to my current work situation I am not at liberty to explain further on the Telkom Dirty Tricks Department, but it wont be too long before I am able to spill the beans. [8]

frikv

05-02-2004, 08:41 PM

-------------------------------------------------------------------
“The research was based on a significant sample of 790 ADSL clients,” says Hans Van De Groenendaal
-------------------------------------------------------------------

So NOW 790 clients are a significant sample!!!! But the 1000+ MyADSL users is also YOUR CLIENTS!

Remember the days when Steve made us out as a small group of disgruntled users. He can't say that anymore, cause they just said 790 is a SIGNIFICANT number to them!!!!!


-----------------------------------------------------------------
White says....“We have done our best to make ADSL sustainable and affordable, and hope to drive down the cost even further as the number of users increases and more sophisticated billing technologies become available.”
------------------------------------------------------------------
So Stevie just remind us again, when was it that ADSL costs came down? I can't remember that well.

Please explain this to me Hansie & Stevie...

caroper

05-02-2004, 09:04 PM

"based on a significant sample of 790 ADSL clients"

Is that the number of participants or an area code?
They called me and my number is 790xxxx.
And I know most of the other users in the (Hout Bay) exchange.
I must have been the 13% that was not satisfied [:)][:D]

Just out of interest Markinor refused to release the questions, despite the fact that I participated, and said that Telkom provided them and I have to request them there.

This was rigged.
Sample Question "how much more would you be willing to pay for ....."
How would you rate this service compared to a carrier pidgon?" [}:)]

Ok the last one was facetious but you get my drift.

Most of the questions did concern the price and the cap. Whenever I mentioned personal complaints such as port prioritisation or the proxy, I was told that it was beyond the scope of the survey, and to please stick to the multiple-choice answers.

This result is no more or less than I expected.

The two most telling parts of the story are that:

“Industry experts reacted cautiously to the claims, saying they are reluctant to comment on the results without seeing the full sample and methodology used.”

And as was pointed out earlier in this thread, If Telkom consider 87% of 790 users to be a good sample, how can they ignore 100% of 1000+ users on this site.

Cheers
Chris

mbs

05-02-2004, 10:29 PM

Here's my comment posted to ITWeb - of course, all comments are subject to edit review prior to publication, so it's quite possible that it will be binned and not posted:

"I do believe that ITWeb has been abused as a forum by Telkom, to deliberately publicise dubious and questionable facts and promote deliberate fiction when it comes to ADSL. Granted, the by-liner did state that industry experts reacted cautiously to the claims, saying they are reluctant to comment on the results, without seeing the full sample and methodology used. However, this is exactly the basis for ensuring the publication of a balanced article that is devoid of market-speak. The article - which comes across as essentially nothing more than editorial/advertorial provided by Telkom - should not have been published, without pertinent comment from such experts concerning the validity of the survey and its results. Without this, the article is tantamount to nothing more than cheap propaganda by Messrs White and Van De Groenendaal, in my opinion. It does ITWeb no good to be a mechanism for the manipulation of public perceptions in this manner."

MOnk

05-02-2004, 10:31 PM

maybe that comment was a good thing, so we can turn it around on him ?

mbs

05-02-2004, 10:47 PM

I assume you're referring to the comments made by Messrs White and Van De Groenendaal, and not my comment posted to ITWeb. Be all that as it may, the answer is you can only 'turn it around' if you have facts providing eveidence to the contrary, which is what must be provided by the industry experts. If not, you're only doing exactly what Telkom have done, and I certainly don't want to go down to their level - some of us do have some level of integrity, after all. I would expect Warwick Ashford to do a follow-up on the article appropriately - let's see if it happens...

plug

06-02-2004, 03:31 AM

If this servey is true then I must be totally ignorant or something. I have difficulty believing it... RPM, why not create a MyADSL's own servey. Here's how it can be done:

What you need is a secure server. (https://) For this servey to work you will need real details from real people. The contents of the database will offcourse need to be held in the strictest of confidence. There will most likely need to be a privacy statement which says that the details will not be made available to any one except a registered Auditor or something to that effect.

Get a coder that creates software for the servey so that nobody are able to cheat. It would probably be easy to do in say PHP (there are probably PHP coders on this forum - any volunteers?)

What the software does is record the telephone number (this would be the unique thing that sets it up so that nobody can take the servey twice). After 700+ users took the servey, start phoning all the telephone numbers to ensure nobody cheated.

Maybe there is an Auditor in the forums who can volunteer his services to overlook everything?

After that I think we may have a realistic feel of what is going on - with figures out in the open..

The only thing that may cost money will be the telephone calls? Maybe 2/3 thousand or so.... Maybe donations can take care of this?

Just some thoughts... Any other thoughts from anybody else? I guees this could make real news in the media. Would make hectic headlines - 'users challenge Telkom's ADSL survey'...

rpm

06-02-2004, 05:15 AM

Hi Plug

To conduct our own survey is a good idea, but I don’t think it will make much of a difference regarding Telkom’s stand on this issue. They have obviously decided that they would like to ‘vindicate’ ADSL, and that is why the Markinor survey was done. I think the Markinor survey’s results are dubious and that I would like to see the full questionnaire and results before accepting it. Even if the results are truly representative of ADSL user’s feeling about the service, all that this will tell me is that a great deal of user education is needed in the fields of Internet technologies and worldwide ICT trends. It will also tell me that MyADSL is indeed a place where the most knowledgeable ADSL and other broadband users meet to discuss broadband issues in South Africa.

Whatever might be the case regarding the results of the Markinor survey (I asked Steven White for the results and details of this survey, both publicly on ITWeb and in an email), it does not mean that Telkom is supplying a satisfactory service. I think knowledgeable ADSL users and people in the industry should be asked to analyze the service, and I am willing to bet ‘green money’ that most knowledgeable users can be found right here. The most encouraging facet of this survey and press release by Telkom is that they are willing to invest a great deal of time and money to try and prove MyADSL wrong. Unfortunately for Telkom our membership is steadily growing, and these members continue to publicly give their opinions about the ADSL service. Will it not be easier for Telkom to simply improve their service and make their users happy?

Regards,

RPM
rpm@myadsl.co.za

doekvoet

06-02-2004, 05:45 AM

“We have done our best to make ADSL sustainable and affordable, and hope to drive down the cost even further as the number of users increases and more sophisticated billing technologies become available.”

Now somewhere I have lost the plot - ADSL ISP fees were just pushed up by Telkom on 1 February 2004 - Only Telkom can make a statement like this and believe it

kaspaas

06-02-2004, 07:21 AM

A certain Rudolph reminded readers of ITWeb in a letter about the results of an Ananzi poll not too long ago. [:D]

South Africa needs World Class Broadband at World Competitive Prices.

antowan

06-02-2004, 09:08 AM

Yep!

It is insane? Are they all corrupt? Is it something they all learn in Telkom? To lie like that!??!

Cheers

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by doekvoet
 “We have done our best to make ADSL sustainable and affordable, and hope to drive down the cost even further as the number of users increases and more sophisticated billing technologies become available.”

Now somewhere I have lost the plot - ADSL ISP fees were just pushed up by Telkom on 1 February 2004 - Only Telkom can make a statement like this and believe it
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous

Gooku

06-02-2004, 11:33 AM

May I make a suggestion here ?

We urge the auditors of Telkom (not the management) to get another expert , another survey for comparison with White's survey---.He claims he is open to audit.

We politely remind the auditors that this subscriber's satisfactory survey can reflect Telkom's risk of investment in the ADSL market ----there is NOW a competing alternative i.e. Sentech mywireless.

It is their duty to ascertain the correct-ness of the survey on behalf of shareholders interest

Lessons from corporate governance.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
they all started from just small lies

microfast

07-02-2004, 12:44 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by antowan
ORIGINAL TEXT TO BE FOUND AT: http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/internet/2004/0402051159.asp
Telkom proclaims ADSL vindication<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
White says the survey results are gratifying considering the effort Telkom has made to provide the best ADSL service at the lowest possible price

1. ADSL is designed and intended to provide a high speed connection using existing copper cables -
this implies high throughput.
 Telkom have provided nothing of the sort

2. 64/128K ISDN is designed and intended for home users and small businesses who download email, browse occasionally and download AV updates. The lightweights.

3. If a lightweight can afford ADSL, of course many of them will be happy -
but they are not using the technology as it was intended.

4. Telkom's concept that ADSL is intended for lightweight users - is bllusiht.

If you believe that Telkom ADSL is good - you have been duped ! [8D]

microfast

07-02-2004, 03:18 PM

posted by BTTB http://www.myadsl.co.za/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=410#10135
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I bought ADSL, mainly because I was sick and tired of waiting for 7pm so I could use my R7 call plan<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is probably the the main reason why many move to adsl .........
then ...........

The new "Telkom adsl" user discovers what ADSL, as the world knows it, can do and what others across the world are doing with ADSL.

Logically many users want to do as the world does - but Telkom does not deliver this capability. Why ????

Telkom makes a siht load more money from lightweight Telkom adsl users than it would if they were to stick with ISDN or 56K.

If all Telkom adsl users adopted Stevie's "local is lekker dream", Telkom would make even more siht loads of money.

We are just being manipulated and I don't think ICASA or this govt. cares twosihts about it.

MaD

07-02-2004, 05:06 PM

It's odd if one thinks about it, but 8-year olds overseas have a ADSL connection in their room which they pay for with their pocket money, and here in SA it takes either a business or a well-off indivudual with money to spare to be able to afford a DSL line which is a fraction of the speed and quality but multiples more expensive.

Go figure.

________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

Gooku

07-02-2004, 06:23 PM

I have post a response to itweb ,its not out yet

"There is only one survey can tell the truth"

let us survey how many ADSL users are switching over to mywireless?

Gooku

Perdition

07-02-2004, 06:29 PM

Sentech should actually ask people when they're signing up if they are/were an ADSL user. Not only would this give an indication of the number of unsatisfied people but if there are sufficient people migrating it would be good advertising for Sentech. Nothing like a little competitive advertising to ruffle the fat cat into action [;)]

MaD

07-02-2004, 10:27 PM

Remember Sentech is a State-owned institution...... once again..

So unless there's a grootkop at Telkom and one at Sentech and they're pissed off at each other there will be no competition. But if you think about it, if you buy the modem cash the monthlies for the 128k work out to ~R437 which isn't a ball-breaker but could be less. Definitely not universally-priced. Everyone has their ideal price points and i think the 128K should be R200/month, 256K should be R260/month and the 512K I would pay R380/month for. That seems more reasonable.

But i find it odd that their VSTAR is 512/128 @ R3000 a month (even with a 50:1 contention ratio) but MyWireless is ~R1,400 for the same speed connection... wonder if the contention ratio is just a helluva lot bigger.. ?

And here i sit with a hangover 10PM on a Saturday nite [:o)]

________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

onionpeel

08-02-2004, 11:07 AM

An informed source told me that SAIX had moved all their international connectivity over to cable (last quarter of 2003) as it had become cheaper than satellite.
Now if Sentech uses satellite and satellite is more expensive than cable, how come Sentech can offer cheaper internet packages (without a cap) than Telkom?*
Once again I ask the question which has never been answered: How much does internatioanl bandwidth cost (wholesale price) Telkom and Sentech? If anybody can get hold of this information, it is worth a stack of bucks because then we know who is ripping off whom.

*For this argument I assume that all satellite costs are approximately the same for Sentech and Telkom.

mithrandi

09-02-2004, 02:00 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Now if Sentech uses satellite<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
They don't. As anyone can verify with a simple traceroute, they are using IS's fiber links for international connectivity.

<hr noshade size="1">mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar

09-02-2004, 02:12 PM

Hi there this is my first post but I have been keeping my eyes on the progress of adsl for some time now.[8D]

I was part of this survey and I remember very clearly how all the questions concerning telkoms downfalls on adsl had the same kind of answer[}:)]

a. Good
b. better
c.best
[:(!]
there was no answer that would harm them. I even argued with the woman doing the survey asked her how was I to answer if my answer was not in the list of options, she clearly did not know so I told her to put in some extra options so I could answer because I wanted them to know the truth about the service she just laughs and this was quite upsetting,
then to make things worse they asked some of the dumbest questions I could ever imagine.
The one I can clearly remember was “ How does telecoms A.D.S.L. service compare to there competition”
Options :
a = competitive
b = not competitive
c = better than normal
[xx(]
something Like that how was I suppose to answer that I mean they don't have any competition so there was truly no answer,
and these where the nature of the questions that where asked I really think this survey was more a reflection on how desperate they are.
That they would need to tweak a survey to get the right result shows you that we are making a impact[;)]
may bee not on them but on the mind's of other ignorant adsl users as to the fact that they are being ripped off and this is wat is scaring them.(Telkom)[:p]

I think we need a independent website to host a voting poll and then we need to advertise on the radio
in deferent areas that this voting poll is available and that only adsl users are aloud to vote and that
they may only vote once this should run for a month so every one has a chance to vote .[:D]

I thought the ananzi pole was a good Idea but if I hadn't happen to have gone there I would never have know that the was a voting pole .

What you think RMP[8]

********************** \\ -| |- //
*********************** (**o o**)
----------------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo----------------------------------
HQ_+ The will to Persevere is often the difference between FAILURE and SUCCESS.

mbs

09-02-2004, 02:43 PM

Based on HG's post, the 'survey' was not a true survey, but merely a ploy to fabricate supportive evidence of a particular stance - this is typically the kind of thing you find being done by politicians: what a disaster! It's no wonder that there appears to be a reluctance to make available the survey input to RPM! It's also disgusting that Markinor should allow itself to be abused in this manner (as with ITWeb) - I surely will never recommend nor make use of their services, if this is the basis of their professional standing as researchers!

Nevertheless, here's my latest posting to the ITWeb article, also viewable at:

http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/feedback/feedcopy.asp?CommentID=2946

Let's see if they're as professional as they are meant to be, and duly respond with a follow-up article...

"[6 Feb 2004 ] Given the somewhat emotive responses to this article, it would seem that Telkom have succeeded admirably in obfuscating the issue (not least for your by-liner and editorial reviewers). The point is, it is incumbent upon the by-liner to ensure that a follow-up article is done, to publish the reaction of industry experts regarding the poll, and to take advantage of Mr White`s offer to be audited to ensure that review, qualification, and expert comment on the validity of the original survey is published - it follows that perceptions of ITWeb being abused by Telkom, will thereby be extinguised.

Should Mr White refuse to make available evidentiary support for his contentions (as already requested by Mr Muller), it then falls upon you to ensure that this refusal be duly published, with a headline of equal emotive purport and impact to that of the original article. In like manner, the reasons behind such industry experts not being willing to comment, should have been accompanied by a by-line header of equal impact, not merely as a concluding paragraph in an article perceived as nothing more than advertorial for Telkom. Please let us endeavour to publish all the facts surrounding Telkom`s ADSL offering at the appropriate times, and undertake not to promote indirect marketing (inadevertently or otherwise), through the publication of articles designed to do nothing more than polish Telkom`s image in the eyes of the general public. I would expect the necessary investigative journalism to be undertaken by Mr Ashford and an appropriate follow-up article to be done, in line with the professionalism expected of ITWeb - your confirmation in this regard is awaited."

beyers

09-02-2004, 02:58 PM

A sample of whatever size is meaningless for statistical purposes, if it is not proven to be a random sample.

[:)]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by caroper
 "based on a significant sample of 790 ADSL clients"

Is that the number of participants or an area code?
They called me and my number is 790xxxx.
And I know most of the other users in the (Hout Bay) exchange.
I must have been the 13% that was not satisfied [:)][:D]

Just out of interest Markinor refused to release the questions, despite the fact that I participated, and said that Telkom provided them and I have to request them there.

This was rigged.
Sample Question "how much more would you be willing to pay for ....."
How would you rate this service compared to a carrier pidgon?" [}:)]

Ok the last one was facetious but you get my drift.

Most of the questions did concern the price and the cap. Whenever I mentioned personal complaints such as port prioritisation or the proxy, I was told that it was beyond the scope of the survey, and to please stick to the multiple-choice answers.

This result is no more or less than I expected.

The two most telling parts of the story are that:

“Industry experts reacted cautiously to the claims, saying they are reluctant to comment on the results without seeing the full sample and methodology used.”

And as was pointed out earlier in this thread, If Telkom consider 87% of 790 users to be a good sample, how can they ignore 100% of 1000+ users on this site.

Cheers
Chris

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

doekvoet

09-02-2004, 05:44 PM

It is interesting to note on the Sentech website that some of their directors and management team appear to be ex Telkom employees - wonder how they feel towards Telkom

antowan

09-02-2004, 06:39 PM

Good day fellow members

I believe there is a way of ensuring that only ADSL users can vote and also a method for making sure that there is only one vote per account. I am looking into ways of doing this. I will report back on this ASAP. If I find a solution I will make it available for testing purposes on a site under my control. RPM can then use it later for official MyADSL polls. If anybody else here has a solution, please post it here…

Cheers
Antowan

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous

BTTB

09-02-2004, 07:50 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by antowan
 Good day fellow members

I believe there is a way of ensuring that only ADSL users can vote and also a method for making sure that there is only one vote per account. I am looking into ways of doing this. I will report back on this ASAP. If I find a solution I will make it available for testing purposes on a site under my control. RPM can then use it later for official MyADSL polls. If anybody else here has a solution, please post it here…

Cheers
Antowan

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sounds Good. Cant wait. Perhaps MYADSL can send out a general mail to members when this becomes available.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

MaD

09-02-2004, 08:16 PM

"based on a significant sample of 790 ADSL clients"

I'm sorry, but 8% of the ADSL population is in fact less than the total members of MyADSL... which means we ARE a significant amount of people who are dissatisfied, and not a minority after all.

Wake up White, go back to school - not the one you were at though they did you a disservice. I should have your job, cos you put your foot in your mouth more often than George W! Clown.

________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

Strobemeister

11-02-2004, 08:43 PM

From a selfish point of view, this survey does not take into account people like me who would like adsl, but cannot afford the unusually high cost of the "service", and are also put off by the overwhelming evidence of an all-round poor service.

Telkom - South Africa's Handbrake to progress.

Gooku

12-02-2004, 01:14 AM

Hi m8s

see Telkom's dirty trick
http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/internet/2004/0402091211.asp

And a bizarre story.I wonder what is a "heated discussion"?

http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/business/2004/0402111244.asp?O=FPLF

microfast

12-02-2004, 08:01 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gooku
Hi m8s<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Interesting ...... [8D]

Could not find anything about this at 3Dglobal.co.za or docweb.co.za.

Must have been some private affair where the sponsors award themselves but could not get enough of a crowd to cheer them on [:D]

herbs

13-02-2004, 05:02 PM

I believe the audit should be oen to all and sundry who request it. As per usual, and I speak from experience, Telkom will and have in the past used their might to influence state sponsored views / audits.

Maybe someday we will have telco provider who do what all semi state organisations should be doing and that is to service the needs of the population they serve to the best of their abilities.

There is a rason why the banks have been using satellite comms..

georgestrydom

13-02-2004, 06:39 PM

I cross questioned one of our customers who operates a POSTNET franchise. They have ADSL and ISDN, which they kept because they were not sure that the ADSL would work reliably. Mainly because Telkom would not gaurantee the service. Also the sales pitch from Telkom was that it was a "POOR MAN'S SERVICE" and that although they could have it, it was not really suitable for business use.
I then asked how it was when they reached there CAP. they looked at me blankly and asked, "what is that". I briefly explained, but as far as they were concerned, they had never hit it and as they explained, there customers had to pay for the time spent on the PC, so they never spent more than ten minutes on at a time.
Now for Telkom this must be an ideal customer. Hardly uses the service, closes at five everyday, don't have to gaurantee any degree of reliability, insult them by calling them CHEAPSKATES for installing ADSL and lastly they charge him more than the home user. Isn't it amazing what Telkom can get away with.
BUT THAT'S A SATISFIED CUSTOMER, according to TELKOM.