Official Liverpool FC Supporters Thread

[AMG133]

*bashes head against the wall*

[hawker]

*bashes head against the wall*

Me too. Argh, last night was so frustrating to watch.

Especially with the way the goal was scored.

[AMG133]

yip, and we had nothing going forward, continuously losing possession, hardly created anything. The one chance we do create by luck and score from the blind ref says its offside... thats our season for you. Lucas did well last night I must say, but Nog, why Rafa starts with him and leaves Babel on the bench is beyond me. He has the worst first touch Ive ever seen on a player!

[hawker]

He has the worst first touch Ive ever seen on a player!

Thank you!!

Finally someone else who thinks he has terrible football skills. Everyone I talk to says "he is young, give him time, bla bla bla" At that level, if you don't have a good first touch you are basically screwed. I thought I was the only one who thought he was bad at keep possession. Another gripe I have with him is the way he tries to dribble through five million defenders in the final 3rd of the pitch. In all the times I've seen him him try it, I've never seen him succeed. He always ends up getting tackled, and turning possession over.

Babel should start rather than N'gog.g.

[hawker]

So we play Burnley in less than an hour, any thoughts guys?

[Sting]

So we play Burnley in less than an hour, any thoughts guys?

Kickoff at 16h00 CAT. On SS7 (NOW!!!)

[hawker]

Oooh, so we won 4-0.

I wasn't entirely convinced with our performance. Thank the pope that N'gog didn't play! Gerrard scored an amazing goal, and his 1st was a tad lucky, but I'll take any goals at this stage. Babel just managed to score his goal.

Congrats to Maxi for finally scoring his first goal for the club! :)

Bring on Atletico Madrid!

[AMG133]

I thought the first half was pretty avg from us, Burnley were unlucky not to score, Pepe saving our arse not for the first time this season. 2nd was better & Aquilani played his part for sure, 3 assists coming from him, Gerrards 2nd was a belter! brought back the old days when he should smash them in from that far. Pleased Maxi scored as well, he has been playing well of late. Ngog getting injured was the biggest blessing in disguise for us, pitty Pacheco didnt get more game time.

[hawker]

Agreed. N'gog can stay injured as far as I am concerned.

[Alan]

Got some bad news, got some good news.....


Bad first


Liverpool striker Fernando Torres has voiced his concerns over the long-term damage playing in the Premier League could have on him.

The 26-year-old, now in his third season with Liverpool following a move from Atletico Madrid, is currently sidelined with a knee surgery and battling to be fit to represent Spain at the World Cup 2010.

Worried that the physical demands of England’s top flight could damage him even beyond his playing days, Torres said: “The Premier League is such a tough competition and I have always admired this championship and the players who are here.

“This is my third season and I’m still amazed to see Gerrard, Rooney and Lampard, players who have been here a long time, still playing at such a high level and with such impressive rhythm because the English league really wears down a player.

“I just can’t imagine what state I’ll be in within five or six years if I continue to play here - it could easily give me problems when I stop playing. The physical level is superior to all other countries.”

Liverpool have not enjoyed the most successful of campaigns this season and with the chances of them competing in the Champions League next season looking unlikely, speculation over Torres’ future at the club has been rife.

The club’s lack of success has also sparked rumours that Rafael Benitez will not be in charge after the summer, but Torres insists that the manager’s no-nonsense approach to football is exactly what has made him and others vastly better players.

“The difference between him and my other managers is that when I was at Atletico I was always over-protected,” he told the News of the World. “They didn’t ask so much of me.

“Here, Rafa demands a lot and I have to live up to expectations. Some players need to be spoilt and other players like me need to always be pushed, and to have more asked of us.

“If I score twice in a game I want to hear that I played badly to help me do even better next time. Rafa is ruthless and sometimes it is tiring but he knows the right way to deal with me.

“If Rafa had not been here I would never have come. He has taught me a lot and he has helped me go beyond my limits and to be the player I am today.”

:cry:

and the good


The Liverpool hierarchy will not stand in Rafa Benitez's way if Juventus formalise their reputed interest in securing his services, according to reports.

Speculation has raged for the past two weeks that the Old Lady of Italian football want Benitez to become their next manager and are prepared to offer him a four-year, £16m contract in order to lure him away from Anfield.

'While the Italians are not yet near to putting a formal request to Liverpool there is the sense that the move will speed up over the next few weeks,' reports The Independent.

'Senior figures at Liverpool have indicated that - unlike in the past when Benitez has parlayed his popularity with the fans into improved contracts and greater influence at the club - this will not be the case should Juventus's offer turn out to be genuine.'

Benitez's position is certainly significantly weaker than it was this time last year when his side were still challenging for a league title. Following a dismal campaign this season, it looks almost certain that he will fail to deliver on the "guarantee" of Champions League qualification he stated at the start of the year.

[poolmania]

Got some bad news, got some good news.....


Bad first



:cry:

and the good

I fail to see where the good news is.

[poolmania]

Agreed. N'gog can stay injured as far as I am concerned.

Excellent post.

[Randhir]

I fail to see where the good news is.

The good news is in the fact that the majority of Pooh fans no longer trust Rafa, and want him gone.

[poolmania]

The good news is in the fact that the majority of Pooh fans no longer trust Rafa, and want him gone.

Who are these so called majority fans?

[fishfly]

poolmania, you not considered a majority :p

[Randhir]

Who are these so called majority fans?

C'mon dude. We both know that most fans don't think Rafa's up for the job any more. Just because you disagree, doesn't mean that you don't know how the others feel. Take this forum for example.

[ALFAHOLIC]

Hooooo rafa can waaai...Aqua played well, Babel played good...But we all know, Rafa must waaai!

[AMG133]

C'mon dude. We both know that most fans don't think Rafa's up for the job any more. Just because you disagree, doesn't mean that you don't know how the others feel. Take this forum for example.

I dont want him gone, he can be an annoying prick but so can Alex, Arsene & Carlo. Just read the Torres article, he made Torres a better player & its not just him, Gerrard, Carragher, Mascherano, Yossi, Riera (albeit his gone AWOL) but he has made all these player better than what they were. Ive seen it first hand.

With the youngsters such as Babel & Lucas, it may be taking some time but they are getting there. I'll admit I was not a Lucas fan but of recent the kid hasnt done much wrong, infact his done alot of rights. eg: that ball over the top to find Babel for our 4th on Sunday.

We can see the results we getting with Maxi already, he was hopeless when he came, now he makes guys **** themself on the right. Aquilani is just starting to blossom now, 3 assists on Sunday says a lot his talent. One can only imagine in time what a player he can become.

[Alan]

I fail to see where the good news is.

You still think after all that has gone on Rafa should stay?

[nivek]

I dont want him gone, he can be an annoying prick but so can Alex, Arsene & Carlo. Just read the Torres article, he made Torres a better player & its not just him, Gerrard, Carragher, Mascherano, Yossi, Riera (albeit his gone AWOL) but he has made all these player better than what they were. Ive seen it first hand.

With the youngsters such as Babel & Lucas, it may be taking some time but they are getting there. I'll admit I was not a Lucas fan but of recent the kid hasnt done much wrong, infact his done alot of rights. eg: that ball over the top to find Babel for our 4th on Sunday.

We can see the results we getting with Maxi already, he was hopeless when he came, now he makes guys **** themself on the right. Aquilani is just starting to blossom now, 3 assists on Sunday says a lot his talent. One can only imagine in time what a player he can become.

Maxi was hopeless before Liverpool? :D hmm
Dont think so

[hawker]

You still think after all that has gone on Rafa should stay?

I find his team selection to be highly frustrating. Other than that I think he is an astute and capable manager.

[fishfly]

Gerrard was hopeless before Rafa? Babel had so much talent yet where is he now? Carragher was hopeless before Rafa?

[Alan]

Gerrard was hopeless before Rafa? Babel had so much talent yet where is he now? Carragher was hopeless before Rafa?

Rafa cultists are insufferable. Even 7th and Europa league is not enough to break the infatuation with Rafa. Seems he has to get the team relegated for that to happen.




For the visit of West Ham last week, ESPN's cameras caught Australian doctor Peter Brukner in the Anfield terraces at the side of new Liverpool chairman Martin Broughton.

The image encapsulated Liverpool's future, which Reds fans are anticipating - if not expecting - to be significantly brighter than the past two decades and in particular a forgettable 2009-10 campaign. The club's financial plight is dire while this season's results have been disappointing to say the least, with injuries having played no small part.

Ironically it was another Australian in Harry Kewell - who has now reinvented himself at Galatasaray - who suffered the cruellest of injury curses at Liverpool, which meant he never fulfilled his enormous potential.

Kewell's personal manager Bernie Mandic went on record and slammed Liverpool's medical department, claiming that star striker Fernando Torres was headed down the same path as Kewell, who "lost three and a half years of his career at Liverpool''.

Coincidence or not, two major developments have taken place since: the appointment of Dr Brukner, one of the pioneers of sports medicine in Australia, and a knee injury to Torres, who underwent surgery last week.

"They (Liverpool) realised that Premier League clubs are a bit behind in medical care and the way they look after players so it's a chance to come in an improve things,'' said Dr Brukner, who will become Liverpool's head of sports medicine and sports science. ''It's interesting, I guess it's not a big part of the British football culture and maybe a bit of a lack of understanding in terms of how sports medicine has progressed in the last decade or two.

"There's a lack of awareness around the place but some of the clubs are starting to realise there's a better way to do things.''

Though not due to officially start until next season, Dr Brukner is spending the last month of this campaign with the Reds to allow him "to hit the ground running'' in 2010-11, with Australia's 2010 World Cup campaign sandwiched between.

"It's an honour to be approached and I think it's a feather in the cap of Australian sports medicine that they come looking in Australia and shows we've got a pretty good reputation,'' he said. "Initially I was a little reluctant from a family point of view and other commitments back home but in the end I thought it's a fantastic opportunity to work for one of the top sporting clubs in world.

"I've come over for the last month of the season to get a feel for the place and see how the department works and how it works on match days so when I come back I can hit the ground running and implement changes I want to make right from the start as opposed to wasting a year. It's been very valuable and I've already learnt a lot.''

He's already had to get his hands dirty, with Torres going under the knife just days after his arrival, but Dr Brukner has allayed the fears of expectant Spanish fans.

"Torres should be right for the World Cup if everything goes to plan, he's already had the operation and we hope to get him back soon for rehab,'' he said.

Notwithstanding the criticism of Liverpool's injury record, Dr Brukner said the Torres injury was unavoidable, although he admits Liverpool's general record needs to improve.

"I doubt the Torres knee problems could've been prevented, it's one of those unlucky things,'' he said. "It's very hard to comment on individuals, but preventing injuries is a terribly important thing - the good players have got to be out there, if they're injured they're no use to anyone.

"I'm not one to look into the past, but obviously Liverpool have been concerned about their injuries and it's one of reasons that prompted them to upgrade their services.''

Dr Brukner will be in charge of hundreds of millions of pounds worth of talent at Anfield, so does he get nervous treating Torres, Kewell, Steven Gerrard and Javier Mascherano?

"I haven't really thought about it like that. To me they're just players who need to be looked after, whether earning £100 or £100,000-a-week. It's the same issues, same processes and challenges,'' he said. ''So I don't get intimated by thinking it's Gerrard or Torres' knee, you try and do the best job for everyone you see.

Peter Brukner

GettyImages

Peter Brukner (C) has fulfilled an important role with the Socceroos.

"I've had a lot of experience I guess in dealing with high level athletes and Olympians. You lie awake at night worrying whether treatments are right, but you do that whether you're looking at professional footballers or your son's hockey team.''

As of May 10, when the Premier League season is wound up, Dr Brukner's sole focus will be the Socceroos' South African mission and it's with a heavy heart that he steps down from his national team role with Australia, describing the staff as a "special group of people'', while paying special tribute to his medical colleagues Phil Coles (physio) and Darren Burgess (strength and conditioning coach).

"The staff have been terrific, with Phil (Coles) and Darren Burgess, as well as the coaching staff from Pim (Verbeek) down, it's just a very special group of people,'' he said. "And the players have been amazing. Before joining I had a bit of trepidation and thought, are they highly paid prima donnas? On the flipside they're very friendly and great to work with and it's been one of the greatest professional experiences of my life.

"I know people used to critical of the setup in the old days but it's a very professional setup now. One of the unfortunate things in getting the Liverpool job was having to give up the Socceroos job after the World Cup, but hopefully we'll finish on a high.''

Finally.....

[AMG133]

Maxi was hopeless before Liverpool? :D hmm
Dont think so

I said he was hopeless for us when he came, lol. He wasnt hopeless for Atletico or Argentina thats for sure!

[AMG133]

Gerrard was hopeless before Rafa? Babel had so much talent yet where is he now? Carragher was hopeless before Rafa?

/facepalm who said they were hopeless? I said he made them better players.

[AMG133]

suspected line up: Reina, Masch, Carra, Agger, Johnson, Kuyt, Lucas, Gerrard, Yossi, Aquilani, Babel

[iceman23]

Rafa cultists are insufferable. Even 7th and Europa league is not enough to break the infatuation with Rafa. Seems he has to get the team relegated for that to happen.

I doubt it. They will probably blame all the other teams managers for being better than him.

[hawker]

I really hope aqua man starts tonight!

[Alan]

meh had a feeling we'd lose. Then after an hour typically in Rafa style the team stopped playing and sat back lobbing high balls to their keeper I knew for a certainty A.Madrid would score and that would probably be it.

Wonder what Torres must be thinking. Played his old club 4 times and not one win :erm: Especially when they play as abysmally as tonight and still go through

Rafa out

Great to see Fulham are through

[Randhir]

Well, Torres must be thinking "Rafa's just subbed off both his goal scorers."

I know a lot of people are gonna say he was looking to Sunday's game, but what are the chances that both Aquilani and Benayoun will start?

[superskully]

Well, Torres must be thinking "Rafa's just subbed off both his goal scorers."

I know a lot of people are gonna say he was looking to Sunday's game, but what are the chances that both Aquilani and Benayoun will start?

I think that was Gerrard's thought, he just went downhill after half-time. Wonder what rafa said in dressing room. Seemed like they were going for penalties. Maybe thats y he subbed Bennie, cos he scored - so no penalties.
Amd Aquaman and Bennie were the best players on the pitch.
Lucas apart from a sublime assisst was missing the whole game.
But the person who iritated me the most was Kuyt, one small touch, a braze, he falls down, over and over...

[poolmania]

Well, Torres must be thinking "Rafa's just subbed off both his goal scorers."

I know a lot of people are gonna say he was looking to Sunday's game, but what are the chances that both Aquilani and Benayoun will start?

They were fecking exhausted when they went off. I have no complaints.

[poolmania]

Liverpool played well in my opinion. Gerrard disappointed me yet again. He was good and then after 60 minutes, he was no where to be seen. They deserved to go through because they played better over the two legs.

[hawker]

I enjoyed watching the first 90minutes. I thought aquaman played well.

As superskully said, Lucas was absent, didn't see much of him. I thought Mascherano had an allright game at RB.

[fishfly]

Beleaguered Benitez calls for Anfield overhaul

Rafael Benitez has admitted it could take five new signings to turn Liverpool into trophy challengers once more.


http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=779386&sec=uefaeuropaleague&cc=3888


I dunno hey no amount of signing would turn the club around if the coach is a monkey

[nivek]

Well, Torres must be thinking "Rafa's just subbed off both his goal scorers."

I know a lot of people are gonna say he was looking to Sunday's game, but what are the chances that both Aquilani and Benayoun will start?
But they have nothing to play for on Sunday, last night wouldve been a major step towards a trophy this season, it was stupid
And did anyone see the 25 seconds or so the cameras focused on Aqua when he was on the bench?
He looked VERY pissed off

[superskully]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=779386&sec=uefaeuropaleague&cc=3888


I dunno hey no amount of signing would turn the club around if the coach is a monkey

Ha Ha, so true.
I think Rafa has done well until this season - too much power got too him.
I mean for each and every position, there are backups - not great but able to do the job. Except one, Striker - we have one Torres. Each team have atleast 3 recognised strikers - even Spurs have Crouch, Defoe and Pav. Yet Rafa decides to go and buy Aquaman and Glen @ 37 mil, yet he does not play Aquaman and Arbeloa was still an excellent player (no offense to Aquaman and Glen, they are brilliant players).
It also seems that players have lost faith in him, esp Gerrard and Carra. Gerrard has been playing so well for England - yet he does not seem to be our Captain Fantastic anymore. Maybe he realises that he is 30 now and going nowhere - probably wants to win the WC.

[poolmania]

I enjoyed watching the first 90minutes. I thought aquaman played well.

As superskully said, Lucas was absent, didn't see much of him. I thought Mascherano had an allright game at RB.

Aquilani, Aquilani ffs.

[poolmania]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=779386&sec=uefaeuropaleague&cc=3888


I dunno hey no amount of signing would turn the club around if the coach is a monkey

Is that really necessary?

[superskully]

They were fecking exhausted when they went off. I have no complaints.
You right that they deserved to go through.
But Bennie and Aquaman were still running/trying. Everyone was exhausted. And these are players that are 'fresher' than the rest.
What did Rafa say for LFC to play so badly in 2nd half - "Sit back and defend cos we will beat them on penalties".
I bet that we wont see Rafa or Gerrard there together - one of them will go. I can see it in Stevie's face, he has lost faith in Rafa.

As for Masch, we missed him in the Midfield, Atletico were running riot there w/o him.
And he is no right back, so is Glen no LB - thus the reason for the goal.

[fishfly]

Is that really necessary?

ya well you gotta admit your faith in him this entire season has been unbelievable, I'd rather see pooh in the top 4 than City in the top 4 ;)

What is rafa really expecting? 5 new players in Striker @ 20 mill, striker @ 20 mill, striker @ 20 mill, striker @ 20 mill, Midfielder @ 20 mill but bench them all in favour of Ngog, Torres, Lucas, Masch, Gerrard, Johnson?

What's the bet Yossi won't start again against chelski this weekend? What's the bet Lucas will be starting? What's the be in Ngog starting over Babel...

[superskully]

ya well you gotta admit your faith in him this entire season has been unbelievable, I'd rather see pooh in the top 4 than City in the top 4 ;)

What is rafa really expecting? 5 new players in Striker @ 20 mill, striker @ 20 mill, striker @ 20 mill, striker @ 20 mill, Midfielder @ 20 mill but bench them all in favour of Ngog, Torres, Lucas, Masch, Gerrard, Johnson?

What's the bet Yossi won't start again against chelski this weekend? What's the bet Lucas will be starting? What's the be in Ngog starting over Babel...

Poolmania's faith in Rafa is unexplainable.
Poolmania, explain this, 7th in league, knocked out early in ECL, FA cup, League Cup - and he is still manager. If that was UTD, Chelsea or Arsenal, u think the managers would have still been there. But they would have not been in that position as Wenger and Alex are just far better. Heck if Chelsea dont win EPL or ECl - the manager is fired.

[iceman23]

You right that they deserved to go through.
But Bennie and Aquaman were still running/trying. Everyone was exhausted. And these are players that are 'fresher' than the rest.
What did Rafa say for LFC to play so badly in 2nd half - "Sit back and defend cos we will beat them on penalties".
I bet that we wont see Rafa or Gerrard there together - one of them will go. I can see it in Stevie's face, he has lost faith in Rafa.

As for Masch, we missed him in the Midfield, Atletico were running riot there w/o him.
And he is no right back, so is Glen no LB - thus the reason for the goal.


I don't blame Gerrard in all honestly. He is probably tired of bailing his manager out. Olympiakos, Milan, West Ham. The three games that probably defines Borenitez's Liverpool career.

After 6 years in charge, 220 million spent, 60 players signed, the best we can do is bring on El Zhar and Degen when we need to attack - says it all. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[superskully]

I don't blame Gerrard in all honestly. He is probably tired of bailing his manager out. Olympiakos, Milan, West Ham. The three games that probably defines Borenitez's Liverpool career.

After 6 years in charge, 220 million spent, 60 players signed, the best we can do is bring on El Zhar and Degen when we need to attack - says it all. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

So he cant complain about money, which is y fergie was right about him, he is a cheque book manager - should be managing Chelski. City or madrid.
With that time as well, he should have developed youth - what does he have to show for it - Lucas.

Anyone also see that Babel and contrymen Kuyt dont get along on the field. I beleive that Babel said same thing for off the field.
There is a lot more than goes on in the dressing room we dont know, Babel has mentioned some, though i see it being rather selfish as it destroys the morale of the team.

[fishfly]

Poolmania's faith in Rafa is unexplainable.
Poolmania, explain this, 7th in league, knocked out early in ECL, FA cup, League Cup - and he is still manager. If that was UTD, Chelsea or Arsenal, u think the managers would have still been there. But they would have not been in that position as Wenger and Alex are just far better. Heck if Chelsea dont win EPL or ECl - the manager is fired.

lol even if pooh is relegated this season I don't think poolmania would blame rafa... he'd start from the owners, then blame the players then blame the way they playing then blame the supporters :D

[AMG133]

We played well, should have gotten the 2nd goal during regulation time, there was no way we were going to hold them off for an extra 30min. Mascherano did well for 90 minutes at RB, but it was clear that he was getting tired. Instead of subbing Aquilani Rafa should have brought on Degen. Oh well, it was typical of this season, just when you think we on the right track we fall down 3 steps again.

I know the game on Sunday will have hardly much bearing on us in the race to 4th but it wouldnt surprise me if we win.

[poolmania]

Poolmania's faith in Rafa is unexplainable.
Poolmania, explain this, 7th in league, knocked out early in ECL, FA cup, League Cup - and he is still manager. If that was UTD, Chelsea or Arsenal, u think the managers would have still been there. But they would have not been in that position as Wenger and Alex are just far better. Heck if Chelsea dont win EPL or ECl - the manager is fired.

Do you really want me to answer this question. I fail to see why I really have to Justify Rafa. It's pretty clear what he can do for us.

Before Rafa took over we were the 4th best team in England. In one season, we won the Champions League for the first time in 21 years. In two season we overtook Arsenal in the League and achieved the highest points since the premiership began. In three seasons, Liverpool were in the Champions League Final for a second time. In 5 seasons we overtook Chelsea and came second with another record of points since 2005/2006. This season has been poor by everyones standards including Rafa's. One blip season and we calling for his head......not me. He deserves another season to show us that it was just a blip. He's not a fecking idiot like fishy makes out. I have the patience, don't you?

Wenger you say. What has Arsenal won since 2004/2005? When was the last time Arsenal were runners up in the Premier League? How many times have Arsenal finished above Liverpool in the League since 2004/2005? How many times did Arsenal progress further than Liverpool in the Champions League since 2004/2005. Not picking on Arsenal, just responding to your point.

[Alan]

[QUOTE]Before Rafa took over we were the 4th best team in England. In one season, we won the Champions League for the first time in 21 years.

You forgot to add the fact that only a magnificent goal from Gerrard got us out of the group stages, a last minute appalling miss from Gudjohnsen got us through the semis after a contentious goal and then of course the CL final. Where Rafa made perhaps the daftest decision in the history of European final history when an only recently returned from injury Harry Kewel(who only lasted for the first few minutes of the game) started in place of our most experienced player Hamann( Having a WC final experience) leaving ***a free to tear us to shreds. 3-0 at half time. Well done Rafa

We finished 5th in the Prem and only got into the CL thanks to a generous UEFA bending the rules.


In two season we overtook Arsenal in the League and achieved the highest points since the premiership began.


His second season was good although many of the squad still were Houllier signings. Yet again Rafa had to rely on extraordinary individual performances for a trophy thanks again to Gerrard scoring in the dying seconds of the FA cup final with possibly the greatest goal in FA Cup history. Yet again he played an inhured player who couldn't last the distance



In three seasons, Liverpool were in the Champions League Final for a second time.

We barely got through the qualifying stage against Maccabi Haifa. Yet again in the final Rafa astonishingly repeated the same mistake as 2 years before when he took off Masch leaving ***a free to pull the strings and surprise, surprise IIRC it was ***a's through ball that sent Inzaghi on his way to score the winner*facepalm*

We finished 21 points off the pace that year



In 5 seasons we overtook Chelsea and came second with another record of points since 2005/2006.


In 07–08 we were almost out of the group stages that year with no wins in our first 3 games. With Rafa having nothing to lose we score 16 goals against the same opposition.

We finished 4th 11 points off the top. Yet again failing to challenge for the title


Last year We should have been dumped out the CL after being outplayed by Standard Liège in the qualifying round.

In the Prem we had a great start mainly thanks to last minute goals but again Rafa threw it away with pathetic defensive home draws and a stupid rant. By the end of January we were out of the race for the title. Only then once everything was lost did Rafa allow the team to attack and we went on an excellent run to finish second.


This season has been poor by everyones standards including Rafa's. One blip season and we calling for his head......not me. He deserves another season to show us that it was just a blip. He's not a fecking idiot like fishy makes out. I have the patience, don't you?


A blip??? You call the worst season in decades a "blip". How many other top club managers would survive such a "blip"? I remind you Houllier won 5 trophies in one season, finished 2nd in 01-02 and ultimately got fired for finishing 4th.

[Sting]

Simple: Rafa must leave together with the Americans!!

[icyrus]

Comical by Gerrard. Couldn't have been any more intentional if he was wearing blue.

[hawker]

A game that pretty much summed up Liverpool's season. :(

[Cantera]

Gerrard's assist was sublime, cut through the entire back 4 :D

[phiber]

Thats it for champs league hopes... Kinda sucks for pool. Oh well, hope they get it together next year, would love to see 6 teams challenging for the title next year :)

[Cantera]

Who was really challenging for the title this season?

Was only United and Chelsea really.

[Randhir]

Who was really challenging for the title this season?

Was only United and Chelsea really.

Ignorance as usual. Arsenal only dropped out of the title race in the past 2 months.

[Sting]

So it's Europa League next season, thanks only to Everton not getting any points yesterday.

[Cantera]

Arsenal were never really in it in my opinion. Toooo inconsistant, was only a matter of time before they buckled against teams that they are suppose to win easily.

Let me guess, you thought they would be challenging right up until the last wknd?

You call me ignorant. LoL

[Randhir]

Arsenal were never really in it in my opinion. Toooo inconsistant, was only a matter of time before they buckled against teams that they are suppose to win easily.


In your opinion. The points (ie what actually matter) tells a different story. So you think if a team is trailing the leaders by three points, they're out of it. Lol. Shows how much you know.



Let me guess, you thought they would be challenging right up until the last wknd?

You call me ignorant. LoL

OK. So you're inferring that I'M the ignorant by something you guess?? Dude, if even you can't see how dumb that is, there is no hope for you.

[Cantera]

Hurting that United are out? :D

Its ok...

/laughs

[Randhir]

See how you ignore my points? :) Well played kid.

[Sting]

In your opinion. The points (ie what actually matter) tells a different story. So you think if a team is trailing the leaders by three points, they're out of it. Lol. Shows how much you know.



OK. So you're inferring that I'M the ignorant by something you guess?? Dude, if even you can't see how dumb that is, there is no hope for you.


Hurting that United are out? :D

Its ok...

/laughs

Oy, go play in the Arsenal thread.

[Cantera]

See how you ignore my points? :) Well played kid.

Now im the kid.

You hurting so much that you consistantly insulting me.

Its ok, there is always next year.

Let me guess, you were shouting on the top of your lungs today, GO GO GO LIVERPOOL!!!!! :D

[Randhir]

Oy, go play in the Arsenal thread.

Oy, until your team actually starts playing football, this here thread is hijacked :p


Now im the kid.

You hurting so much that you consistantly insulting me.

Its ok, there is always next year.

Let me guess, you were shouting on the top of your lungs today, GO GO GO LIVERPOOL!!!!! :D

You were always the kid :) Still choosing to ignore the points...

And fyi, I didn't even watch the game..

[hawker]

Cantera, you might want to change your sig at some stage.

I am kinda sad that Liverpool put up such a poor show today, but another side of the Liverpool fan in me is happy that we've made it harder for Man Utd to win the league. Chelsea winning the title is the lesser of 2 evils in my mind.

[dbecks]

Moffie team and a moffie captain :sick::mad:

Enjoy Europa and better hope that Forlan isnt playing in that league next season....lol:o

[nivek]

Who was really challenging for the title this season?

Was only United and Chelsea really.

If you want to see a weak league just look at the points gap between 2nd and 3rd in la liga

[Cantera]

If you want to see a weak league just look at the points gap between 2nd and 3rd in la liga

If Arsenal were to play in La Liga, the points gap between 2nd and 3rd will be the same.

[nivek]

If Arsenal were to play in La Liga, the points gap between 2nd and 3rd will be the same.

No point in arguing your baseless assumption, the points difference today between 2nd and 3rd in la liga says it all, and its a fact you cant argue, there is no competition in la liga :)

[Cantera]

No point in arguing your baseless assumption, the points difference today between 2nd and 3rd in la liga says it all, and its a fact you cant argue, there is no competition in la liga :)

This thing goes in cycles.

Have a look at a few seasons ago in the EPL, its the same.


After all, in the history of the Premier League you don't need to go back too many years to find just Manchester United or Chelsea fighting for the title or, before Roman Abramovich and Jose Mourinho came on the scene, just Arsenal and United competing for the title year after year.



Just last year, Wenger's side finished fourth in the league, a full 18 points behind champions Manchester United. Two years before that the third placed team, Liverpool, had 21 points less than the champions. So it's still a matter of cycles and everything changes from a year to the other. Villarreal were the second best side in La Liga three years ago, and nobody said then that Frank Rijkaard's Barcelona were sinking as a club.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2010/04/16/1881621/view-from-spain-arsene-wenger-needs-some-perspective-after

[nivek]

This thing goes in cycles.

Have a look at a few seasons ago in the EPL, its the same.





http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2010/04/16/1881621/view-from-spain-arsene-wenger-needs-some-perspective-after

Still, 31 points between 1st and 4th in La Liga with 3 games to go, when last was there such a gulf in the EPL?
Not the past 4 seasons

[Cantera]

Maybe a better question is when last did Real or Barca have so many points at this part of the sason.

The answer is, NEVER!

[nivek]

And its only going to get worse for the rest of the spanish league as barca sign up villa

on a positive note lets hope xavi is injured for the wc so cesc can get some playing time :) i'm hoping to see him live against chile and hondorus

[Cantera]

If Xavi is injured for the WC, that seriously dents Spains chances of lifing the World Cup.

He is already playing through the injury.

Praying it doesnt worse.

[poolmania]

A blip??? You call the worst season in decades a "blip". How many other top club managers would survive such a "blip"?

Please tell me how this season is the worst in decades.

[Alan]

Please tell me how this season is the worst in decades.

Last time we finished 7th was in 98/99 and 8th in 93/94. You have to go back to 64/65 for the other equally bad top flight finish.

[poolmania]

If Arsenal were to play in La Liga, the points gap between 2nd and 3rd will be the same.

I don't understand. how could you possibly know that?

[fishfly]

I don't understand. how could you possibly know that?

Cos he's psychic!

[superskully]

Please tell me how this season is the worst in decades.

I think Alan answered all your questions.
In any case, i mentioned that we did have good seasons prior to this season.
But this is one of our worst seasons.

The fact is players have lost faith in him, and you can see it in their faces.
One of our Bafana Bafana players mentioned that once that faith is lost (Sentana days), the players dont care and are just waiting for the replacement.
Its the same here, the players are waiting.
Fergie lost 2 of his best players, took in a huge profit by selling, but he is still competiting for league, was for UCL... We lost Alonso.
Wenger has always been in top 4, always atleast to last 8 in UCL. He works of a difference business model, he does not spend money. He is way better than Rafa.

I also agree with Alan, Gerrard was the one that carried Liverpool. And fact is, he is having a poor season, and we are 7th.
The fact is also we are playing so poorly. We never look like beatin Chelsea, UTD (@ old trafford) Arsenal, or Lyon, Fiorentina or At Madrid... We have been awful... actually sad

[nivek]

The players are the ones on the pitch though, and they are just as responsible for the losses as Rafa.. Disheartened or not, they playing for their club and their future, no top level player wants to be excluded from the Champions league and that should be incentive enough for them to play their best, even if they dont like their boss..

Unless ofcourse they want out of the club too, in which case, Liverpool not playing in the UCL won't be their problem next season

Gerrard and Carragher looked completely depressed walking down the tunnel yesterday

[Alan]

The fact is players have lost faith in him, and you can see it in their faces.

Indeed.


Fergie lost 2 of his best players, took in a huge profit by selling, but he is still competiting for league, was for UCL... We lost Alonso.
Wenger has always been in top 4, always atleast to last 8 in UCL. He works of a difference business model, he does not spend money. He is way better than Rafa.

Good point. I'd point out that Alonso was exceptional last season, our best player but if Rafa had his way Alonso would have been sold and replaced with Barry at the start of the season:o. IMO Alonso would still be here had it not been for Rafa's appalling treatment towards him. Many other players at Liverpool have also been messed around by Rafa which does not go unnoticed by the rest of the team. Players are less inclined to fight for a manager they don't trust or have affinity for when the going gets tough.

Arsenal did not implode after they lost key players like Viera and Henry. Neither did they spend mega money to replace those players.


I also agree with Alan, Gerrard was the one that carried Liverpool. And fact is, he is having a poor season, and we are 7th.

I think it's rather sad how Gerrard is being made a scapegoat by those seeking to deflect blame from Rafa. For years he has single-handedly carried this club on his back. Repeatedly he has got Rafa out a sticky spot with superlative individual performances. Yet he is expected to do this game in and game out while Rafa is excused for spending 23+million on a bench warmer this season and 17million on a RB. Ah but it's Gerrard to blame for not scoring his allotment of 30 yard wonder strikes in the 92nd minute of games.....

Remember Rafa only won his two major trophies on the lottery of penalties. The team only got to that point largely thanks to Gerrard.


The players are the ones on the pitch though, and they are just as responsible for the losses as Rafa.. Disheartened or not, they playing for their club and their future, no top level player wants to be excluded from the Champions league and that should be incentive enough for them to play their best, even if they dont like their boss..

They play to the tactics employed by the manager. Which is often slow tempo defensive and cynical. If they're told to not get caught out of position going forward and play counter attack don't blame them if it results in a spectacle of standing around passing the ball sideways then ultimately lobbing it aimlessly forward to the opposition CB.

[superskully]

I would also like to add that Rafa has had control of the club since last Jan. What has come ouf of it... we 7th.
However, if he does decide to stay, i hope he can learn from his mistakes. He is still a good coach.
One thing that srpings to mind is he gives some playes too many chances and some too less. And he keeps players who have failed for too long.
He really needs to look at youth and get rid of players like Lucas, Degen, El Zhar, babel.... so many. They had their chances. And yes, we have largest squad in the EPL, i.e. we have the most number of players on our books (John Barnes - somewhere around Jan 2010).
If he gives youth a chance, atleast fans will understand.

[nivek]

We'll take Babel thanks :) Wenger will turn him into a star, injury prone, but a star :D

[akescpt]

what on earth is rafa's obsession with el zhar?? he shows no promise in any game i have seen him...he must lyn when rafa goes... we are now the also rans of the title race..officially...oh did gerard give drogba an indication of that backpass..

[nivek]

what on earth is rafa's obsession with el zhar?? he shows no promise in any game i have seen him...he must lyn when rafa goes... we are now the also rans of the title race..officially...oh did gerard give drogba an indication of that backpass..
Lol El Zhar..Remember Veronin? :D

[superskully]

Indeed.



Good point. I'd point out that Alonso was exceptional last season, our best player but if Rafa had his way Alonso would have been sold and replaced with Barry at the start of the season:o. IMO Alonso would still be here had it not been for Rafa's appalling treatment towards him. Many other players at Liverpool have also been messed around by Rafa which does not go unnoticed by the rest of the team. Players are less inclined to fight for a manager they don't trust or have affinity for when the going gets tough.

Arsenal did not implode after they lost key players like Viera and Henry. Neither did they spend mega money to replace those players.



I think it's rather sad how Gerrard is being made a scapegoat by those seeking to deflect blame from Rafa. For years he has single-handedly carried this club on his back. Repeatedly he has got Rafa out a sticky spot with superlative individual performances. Yet he is expected to do this game in and game out while Rafa is excused for spending 23+million on a bench warmer this season and 17million on a RB. Ah but it's Gerrard to blame for not scoring his allotment of 30 yard wonder strikes in the 92nd minute of games.....

Remember Rafa only won his two major trophies on the lottery of penalties. The team only got to that point largely thanks to Gerrard.



They play to the tactics employed by the manager. Which is often slow tempo defensive and defensive. If they're told to not get caught out of position going forward and play counter attack don't blame them if it results in a spectacle of standing around passing the ball sideways then ultimately lobbing it aimlessly forward to the opposition CB.

Please understand i am not using gerrard as a scapegoat but rather the fact that NO Gerrard NO Liverpool. Look at their performances, with the exception of Torres who can bring sparks of brilliance from nothing, if Gerrard is having a bad game, LFC does too.
And i beleive that personal problems and that he has lost faith in Rafa is the reason for his poor form for LFC. You can see it in his England performance, possibly as i think he beleive that the WC is chance of winning a mojor trophy.

[Alan]

We'll take Babel thanks :) Wenger will turn him into a star, injury prone, but a star :D

By playing him in his natural position that of striker.

Remember Henry


Please understand i am not using gerrard as a scapegoat but rather the fact that NO Gerrard NO Liverpool. Look at their performances, with the exception of Torres who can bring sparks of brilliance from nothing, if Gerrard is having a bad game, LFC does too.
And i beleive that personal problems and that he has lost faith in Rafa is the reason for his poor form for LFC. You can see it in his England performance, possibly as i think he beleive that the WC is chance of winning a mojor trophy.

Didn't mean you ;)

You're correct. Reason why Liverpool rely so much on Gerrard is becuase Rafa hasn't brought in any quality players to take the burden off him.

Rafa cultists please don't come with the "he hasn't got the money" bull**** ffs. He had the money to buy Aquilani to warm the bench, he had 17million for a RB, he had 18mill or whatever it was for Robbie Keane who he sold for a loss 6 months later and who is now playing in Scotland ffs.

If the manager is constantly relying on 2 players to win him games why the surprise if the other players do the same on the pitch

[akescpt]

listen i remember the first season when babel arrived..gerard was injured...torres may have been as well....babel played striker..he tore sunderland apart..i think the final score was 6 or 7..he scored a goal running from outside their box i think and he let rip..but after that i thought blimey!! here we have backup to torres!! what happens next game...left wing...unbelievable...

[Alan]

Lol El Zhar..Remember Veronin? :D

and

Josemi
Nunez
Morientes 6 million :eek:
Carson
Gonzales
Kromkamp
Palletta 2million IIRC :eek:
Lucas 5 million
Leto
Degen
Dossena 7 million

[superskully]

listen i remember the first season when babel arrived..gerard was injured...torres may have been as well....babel played striker..he tore sunderland apart..i think the final score was 6 or 7..he scored a goal running from outside their box i think and he let rip..but after that i thought blimey!! here we have backup to torres!! what happens next game...left wing...unbelievable...

From all our backup players, Babel is the one who has true talent. But he has hit his expiration date - time for him to move on start something new - possibly a new coach will help him.
If Rafa does leave, i would like then to see him get another chance.
So who are the players that need to go:
Lucas is at the top of the list - he should be a 6th choice CM or Ngog a 4th choice striker.
Elzhar - championship material. Voronin is gone.. good.
Degen (remember that Italian dude, damn i forgot his name - who was bought for 7 mil - sold again later).

[superskully]

and

Josemi
Nunez
Morientes 6 million :eek:
Carson
Gonzales
Kromkamp
Palletta 2million IIRC :eek:
Lucas 5 million
Leto
Degen
Dossena 7 million

Damn good memory man.
Leto though is actually a decent player, he just could not Visa.
Saw him play for one of the greek teams, he got skill and pace.

[AMG133]

Dossena was a decent right back, at first he didnt have the pace but he did well, not sure why Rafa didnt give him a chance. We needed him now.

With regards to yesterdays display. It was pathetic, if the guys were so tired why didnt we send out a 2nd string team with fresh players? For the last game at Anfield for the season one would have expected the guys to put up more of a fight. It was terrible, I couldnt believe what I was watching. The crowd were worse too! Whats wrong with them? they suppose to spur the players on but it was more like a funeral! It was sad day to be a LFC supporter.. Seriously it was, I was ashamed to go out with my "Miracle of Istanbul" t-shirt. The guys in that picture fort through pulled muscles, cramps, blood & sweat! Thats the Liverpool team I know, yesterday it was like a bunch of pensioner's took to the field! disappointed thats all I can say.

Oh and Rafa isnt leaving, they trying their level best to get him out but he aint budging. They promised him complete control over transfers but it was made public last week that members on Liverpool board approached Van der Vaart at Real with out Rafa's knowledge so he is seething over that.

[superskully]

Dossena was a decent right back, at first he didnt have the pace but he did well, not sure why Rafa didnt give him a chance. We needed him now.

With regards to yesterdays display. It was pathetic, if the guys were so tired why didnt we send out a 2nd string team with fresh players? For the last game at Anfield for the season one would have expected the guys to put up more of a fight. It was terrible, I couldnt believe what I was watching. The crowd were worse too! Whats wrong with them? they suppose to spur the players on but it was more like a funeral! It was sad day to be a LFC supporter.. Seriously it was, I was ashamed to go out with my "Miracle of Istanbul" t-shirt. The guys in that picture fort through pulled muscles, cramps, blood & sweat! Thats the Liverpool team I know, yesterday it was like a bunch of pensioner's took to the field! disappointed thats all I can say.

Oh and Rafa isnt leaving, they trying their level best to get him out but he aint budging. They promised him complete control over transfers but it was made public last week that members on Liverpool board approached Van der Vaart at Real with out Rafa's knowledge so he is seething over that.

Dossena was left back. But he was lacking pace. He was struggling. I remember Hull flying past him, we drew 2-2 that day (thanks again to Gerrard), both goals came from Dossena's wings - he was skinned.

[fishfly]

Dossena was left back. But he was lacking pace. He was struggling. I remember Hull flying past him, we drew 2-2 that day (thanks again to Gerrard), both goals came from Dossena's wings - he was skinned.

If I'm correct he was struggling through injury

[ALFAHOLIC]

Who here watches Monday Night Football? Our friend and fellow supporter from the Cape Flats said it well last night! WE HAVE NO LEFT AND RIGHT FULL BACKS!!! Look at a player like Canavaro...100% Full back! Look at a player like Luzio...100% Full Back! Cara is a 100% Full Back, brilliant season last season...but this season he had to be concerned with on and off the pitch antics! And don't come with that nonsense of adopting Wenger's model...please open your eyes, we have achieved much more than Wenger will ever achieve with a young side! There's already talks of him also leaving next season! Arsenal's players are TOO young, its like a kinder garden team with an OLD AGE back line! They seem to lose foot at the latter stages of ANY competition!

Coming back to our beloved Liverpool...as wisemen always point out...something drastic has to happen before change ensues...this was that SOMETHING DRASTIC. I have no doubt that yesterday's emergency meeting with Rafa will turn out that he leaves! If Liverpool keeps him JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE TO PAY OUT HIS CONTRACT, we can sell Lucas and pay Benitez out! Rafa did well in his stint here at Anfield, he still cannot sing the NEEEEEEVER WALK ALONE song, I honestly think he's taken this side as far as he can take them. He's forever blaming money as the sole reason why the side cannot compete, that must be disheartening for the surge of players we have on and off the field, do they not make the cut to even attempt to change a season? Why do you have to go purchase more if you already have so many? Why not improve on your investment?

Babel is a great player, he should stay at Liverpool, look at his goal scorring record @ Anfield...most of those 37 are JUST FROM SUBSTITUTIONS! We need a coach that will get rid of the fat and mentor youngsters like Ryan Babel, Pacheco (whom I think is the kind of player Liverpool needs, the risky type, the type that will run with the ball, like Babel) and then hone them to become greats! He, Rafa, has done that with Masch, Reina, Torres, dare I say Lucas...he's a totally different player, but he cannot be forgiven, we are not a test run club, we are a top 3 club and our players should be top players!

I do hope Livepool gets sold to people who;
1.Enjoy footbal as the fans do
2.Understand the history and tradition of Liverpool FC
3.Bring back the glory days of LFC

I also hope we get a new coach, doesn't have to be English, and I hope we keep our good players...

[Sting]

@ALFAHOLIC: Agree with you 100%. (but not on Wenger/Arsenal chirps).

Babel is a great striker, not a wing.

[nivek]

Who here watches Monday Night Football? Our friend and fellow supporter from the Cape Flats said it well last night! WE HAVE NO LEFT AND RIGHT FULL BACKS!!! Look at a player like Canavaro...100% Full back! Look at a player like Luzio...100% Full Back! Cara is a 100% Full Back, brilliant season last season...but this season he had to be concerned with on and off the pitch antics! And don't come with that nonsense of adopting Wenger's model...please open your eyes, we have achieved much more than Wenger will ever achieve with a young side! There's already talks of him also leaving next season! Arsenal's players are TOO young, its like a kinder garden team with an OLD AGE back line! They seem to lose foot at the latter stages of ANY competition!

haaahahahahahahahaha
lol @ achieved more than wenger has, im sorry are you referring to rafa, or liverpool? because you're right if you talk about the last 100 years, but we have to go back quite a while to find the last time you won the league

oh, and this nobody wenger is in the champions league next season fyi, something he's achieved every single year hes been at arsenal, and this without spending excessive amounts on **** players that arent good for the english league

and yes there are talks of him leaving next season, but that happens everytime his contract comes up for renewal, and guess what, he renews it...

its like a kinder garden team with an OLD AGE back line! They seem to lose foot at the latter stages of ANY competition!
That statement is so far from the truth it makes me think you dont actually watch any other teams besides Liverpool play.. There is only so much you can learn from Sky highlights and monday night football




If Liverpool keeps him JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE TO PAY OUT HIS CONTRACT, we can sell Lucas and pay Benitez out!

Thats another gem.. how much exactly do you think Lucas is worth?
You might be able to buy new boots for Torres with the money you get for Lucas

[ALFAHOLIC]

haaahahahahahahahaha
lol @ achieved more than wenger has, im sorry are you referring to rafa, or liverpool? because you're right if you talk about the last 100 years, but we have to go back quite a while to find the last time you won the league

oh, and this nobody wenger is in the champions league next season fyi, something he's achieved every single year hes been at arsenal, and this without spending excessive amounts on **** players that arent good for the english league

and yes there are talks of him leaving next season, but that happens everytime his contract comes up for renewal, and guess what, he renews it...

That statement is so far from the truth it makes me think you dont actually watch any other teams besides Liverpool play.. There is only so much you can learn from Sky highlights and monday night football



Thats another gem.. how much exactly do you think Lucas is worth?
You might be able to buy new boots for Torres with the money you get for Lucas

LOL yes, was refering to Liverpool...not Rafa, obviously! Arsenal is a young team, and you just cannot admit it, your team is TOO young thus each year in and out, you guys make the same mistakes, yes you get to the UCL, but if you ask anyone who'll take it that year, Arsenal gets sidelined because of their history with this cup...you get knocked out like its already written!

Sorry, but you just cannot compare a boys club to a gentlemens club

[nivek]

LOL yes, was refering to Liverpool...not Rafa, obviously! Arsenal is a young team, and you just cannot admit it, your team is TOO young thus each year in and out, you guys make the same mistakes, yes you get to the UCL, but if you ask anyone who'll take it that year, Arsenal gets sidelined because of their history with this cup...you get knocked out like its already written!

Sorry, but you just cannot compare a boys club to a gentlemens club

They are a young team with tons of experience - Arshavin, Gallas, RVP, Campbell, Silvestre*sigh*, Almunia, Rosicky arent that young either - all are over 25

And any current player regardless of age, with exception to the goal keeper, in any position at Arsenal would be able to get into the Liverpool team,

Arsenals problem this year has been injuries, Liverpools problem has been an incompetent manager,
And what you just said about Arsenal being sidelined in the UCL because of past history, well, the same is said about Liverpool every year in the domestic league

[ALFAHOLIC]

They are a young team with tons of experience - Arshavin, Gallas, RVP, Campbell, Silvestre*sigh*, Almunia, Rosicky arent that young either - all are over 25

And any current player regardless of age, with exception to the goal keeper, in any position at Arsenal would be able to get into the Liverpool team,

Arsenals problem this year has been injuries, Liverpools problem has been an incompetent manager,
And what you just said about Arsenal being sidelined in the UCL because of past history, well, the same is said about Liverpool every year in the domestic league

LOL - an incompetent manager + Injuries!

Nope...at the start of each season the favourite things coming from a Liverpool fans mouth is...THIS IS THE SEASON WE"LL TAKE IT...lol:p

Whereas with you guys, people kind of like forget you even exist...Oh, ja...there's still Arsenal1:p:p;)

[nivek]

LOL - an incompetent manager + Injuries!

Nope...at the start of each season the favourite things coming from a Liverpool fans mouth is...THIS IS THE SEASON WE"LL TAKE IT...lol:p

Whereas with you guys, people kind of like forget you even exist...Oh, ja...there's still Arsenal1:p:p;)

Your injuries are nowhere near as bad as Arsenals

As you said dude, 'out of a LIVERPOOL fans mouth', nobody else takes LFC seriously, atleast not while Rafa is there
anyway dont worry, we say the same about this being the season for Arsenal

btw this team that doesnt exist is 4 places ahead of you in the league table :p

[superskully]

They are a young team with tons of experience - Arshavin, Gallas, RVP, Campbell, Silvestre*sigh*, Almunia, Rosicky arent that young either - all are over 25

And any current player regardless of age, with exception to the goal keeper, in any position at Arsenal would be able to get into the Liverpool team,

Arsenals problem this year has been injuries, Liverpools problem has been an incompetent manager,
And what you just said about Arsenal being sidelined in the UCL because of past history, well, the same is said about Liverpool every year in the domestic league

I have watched quite a bit of Arsenal games over the years and would rather them win then Man U or Chelsea. I enjoyed the times of Henry, Viera, Pires and Ljunberg - thats was a great side.
However, firstly, Arsenal dont have good CB's, Silvestre and Gallas are rejects, you guys need someone bigger and stronger to take control.
Secondly, you'll have three WC players, Fabregas, RVP and Ash. But they are forever injured (like Gerrard and Torres).
Thirdly, Arsenal dont have a self belief - they dont believe in themselves, their head seems to go down too quick.
Lastly, Wenger lacks tactical knowledge - too much of the same type of Football.
These are i believe their weakneses, not like other teams dont have them, LFC has many, i think though that if they can fix the firsr 3 points, they can win the league, and fix the last point, they can win the UCL.

[nivek]

I have watched quite a bit of Arsenal games over the years and would rather them win then Man U or Chelsea. I enjoyed the times of Henry, Viera, Pires and Ljunberg - thats was a great side.
However, firstly, Arsenal dont have good CB's, Silvestre and Gallas are rejects, you guys need someone bigger and stronger to take control.
Secondly, you'll have three WC players, Fabregas, RVP and Ash. But they are forever injured (like Gerrard and Torres).
Thirdly, Arsenal dont have a self belief - they dont believe in themselves, their head seems to go down too quick.
Lastly, Wenger lacks tactical knowledge - too much of the same type of Football.
These are i believe their weakneses, not like other teams dont have them, LFC has many, i think though that if they can fix the firsr 3 points, they can win the league, and fix the last point, they can win the UCL.

Mmmm, as expected.. I disagree with you:D

1) Gallas is no reject, he is a brilliant CB, Vermaelan is also top class, the problem comes in when either of the 2 or both get injured, and Djourou isnt available.. Ofcourse Silvestre is a reject, but he is ok for a 6th choice centre back, just no one expects to have to field a 6th choice centre back in a season and the string of injuries Arsenal has experienced this season, Gallas out, Verm out, Djourou out

2) Fabregas and Arshavin dont get injured often, this is the first time i've seen Arshavin out for a series of games, and Fabregas has just been unlucky, first it was his hamstring and then a broken leg,
otherwise hes been pretty consistent.. (I dont think Gerrard is injury prone either), there is significant cover for Arshavin too in the way of Rosicky and Nasri (Nasri being forced to play central to cover for Cesc)

3) This team has come back from behind plenty times this season, and they've scored plenty goals in the last 5 mins of games, the self belief was there, but they lost confidence after Messi tore them to shreds

4) I dont think Wenger lacks tactical knowledge he' just doesnt believe in playing the physical game, or putting 10 men behind the ball.. Same as Barcelona..

[ALFAHOLIC]

Guys...read this...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/387363-if-this-is-goodbye-i-salute-you-rafa-benitez?utm_campaign=telegraph&utm_source=Telegraph%20-%20Liverpool&utm_medium=widget

[superskully]

Mmmm, as expected.. I disagree with you:D

1) Gallas is no reject, he is a brilliant CB, Vermaelan is also top class, the problem comes in when either of the 2 or both get injured, and Djourou isnt available.. Ofcourse Silvestre is a reject, but he is ok for a 6th choice centre back, just no one expects to have to field a 6th choice centre back in a season and the string of injuries Arsenal has experienced this season, Gallas out, Verm out, Djourou out

2) Fabregas and Arshavin dont get injured often, this is the first time i've seen Arshavin out for a series of games, and Fabregas has just been unlucky, first it was his hamstring and then a broken leg,
otherwise hes been pretty consistent.. (I dont think Gerrard is injury prone either), there is significant cover for Arshavin too in the way of Rosicky and Nasri (Nasri being forced to play central to cover for Cesc)

3) This team has come back from behind plenty times this season, and they've scored plenty goals in the last 5 mins of games, the self belief was there, but they lost confidence after Messi tore them to shreds

4) I dont think Wenger lacks tactical knowledge he' just doesnt believe in playing the physical game, or putting 10 men behind the ball.. Same as Barcelona..

1. I dont think Gallas is that good. Vermalen Yes - but as u say - no cover.
2. Fabregas and Ash injured during the most important of the season. Gerrard has become injury prone lately - he misses 30% of the games. We need him 100%. Nasri and Rosicky just not as good as them.
3. Arsenal were torn apart by Man U, chelsea and barca. They were not playing their brand of football. Heads went down.
4. Trying to beat Barca at their own game - not very clever. Lets face it, Arsenal have only one tactic.

[Randhir]

I have watched quite a bit of Arsenal games over the years and would rather them win then Man U or Chelsea. I enjoyed the times of Henry, Viera, Pires and Ljunberg - thats was a great side.

Great side, one I loved watching play, but you forgot the master!



4) I dont think Wenger lacks tactical knowledge he' just doesnt believe in playing the physical game, or putting 10 men behind the ball.. Same as Barcelona..

I also don't think Wenger lacks tactical knowledge, just savvy, and he seems to be too stubborn for his own liking. If you would rather choose attractive football against winning, you only have yourself to blame. I'm not saying play grinding football all the time, just in those game where you know you have quality opposition. If Arsenal play their one-touch 100-pass football against lower level teams, they'll win most of the time, but against the big boys, c'mon, have a Plan B at least...

[superskully]

Great side, one I loved watching play, but you forgot the master!



I also don't think Wenger lacks tactical knowledge, just savvy, and he seems to be too stubborn for his own liking. If you would rather choose attractive football against winning, you only have yourself to blame. I'm not saying play grinding football all the time, just in those game where you know you have quality opposition. If Arsenal play their one-touch 100-pass football against lower level teams, they'll win most of the time, but against the big boys, c'mon, have a Plan B at least...

Agree.
Yep and forgot Bergkamp.. Damn.

[superskully]

Guys...read this...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/387363-if-this-is-goodbye-i-salute-you-rafa-benitez?utm_campaign=telegraph&utm_source=Telegraph%20-%20Liverpool&utm_medium=widget

People are funny. Many wanted Rafa's head, now that he is 'almost leaving' they defend him.
But i would still say he is a good manager - just that he has done as much as he can. This season he lost it, our performances were depressing really.
One thing i would add is that the americans need to go first.

Also if players like Torres (yes, Torres), masch and bennie.. go becos Rafa goes, then they are not loyal to LFC and we can cash in on them (however lets say we get 100 mill, how much will those cursed americans allow us to take).
The article talks about Spurs spending, did they really. After all they cashed in on Berbatov, Keane, Carrick... and made good signings (apart from Bentley).

Lastly, we dont really know what goes on behind the scenes. Rumors were that Rafa had around 15mil (sale of Keane), 20mill in kitty + sales (35mill) to spend this season. He was lining up Villa, Cole... Maybe it was the americans who decided after the sale of Alonso to say... kitty is now 2mill (the greek).

[nivek]

1. I dont think Gallas is that good. Vermalen Yes - but as u say - no cover.
2. Fabregas and Ash injured during the most important of the season. Gerrard has become injury prone lately - he misses 30% of the games. We need him 100%. Nasri and Rosicky just not as good as them.
3. Arsenal were torn apart by Man U, chelsea and barca. They were not playing their brand of football. Heads went down.
4. Trying to beat Barca at their own game - not very clever. Lets face it, Arsenal have only one tactic.

1 - Gallas put up brilliant performance after brilliant performance since he was relieved of his captaincy.. anyway his time at Arsenal is most likely up soon anyway :(
2 - Agreed but you cant have world class cover in every position, Rosicky and Nasri arent as good, agree 100% but they are both classy and can do the job.. no team can have two fabregas's or two arshavins.. just as united suffers without rooney
3 - True and last season the same team beat both Man U and Chelsea..
4 - cant argue with you there

[Randhir]

Lastly, we dont really know what goes on behind the scenes. Rumors were that Rafa had around 15mil (sale of Keane), 20mill in kitty + sales (35mill) to spend this season. He was lining up Villa, Cole... Maybe it was the americans who decided after the sale of Alonso to say... kitty is now 2mill (the greek).

Alonso money - Aquilani & Glen Johnson.

[AMG133]

Dont you just love the fact how everyone knows everything about LFC. Bottom line is no one knows squat about the club, its finances & transfers! We are lead to believe every single thing thats printed in the media. "Rafa didnt flush after he went for a number 2 at Melwood" headline in the Daily Mirror, next thing you know everyone is talking about Rafa's failure to flush. FFS! Theres one thing that Rafa wanted when taking over. He wanted things done his way, I say why not? All big clubs let their managers have complete control over matters than concern them. Rafa was never allowed the privilege. In a club you have scouts that advise you on up & coming players also players that would work with your squad. Rafa had idea's, he had options of bringing players in but it was all down to a prick named Rick Parry who gave it the seal of approval, now him classifying himself as the club manager also decided to buy few players himself. Namely Keane, Bellamy. Both players fair enough are good players, but if you making cake, why would you want to add cheese & bacon to it? You better off with chocolate and cream.

Like Dellboy said in last nights MNF, the problem started with the Moore's family, them & Rick Parry have done nothing good for the club at all in the past 20 years. If anything they are the ones that brought us down to the gutter we find ourself in now. Stupid decisions made by them eg: allowing H&G to buy LFC cost us big time. David Moores was merely a puppet with Parry for some reasons pulling all the strings, Kraft came in from the US 4 years ago and offered them 350million pounds for LFC, they declined the offer & even said they were not considering selling LFC, the next year they put it up for sale, ignore Kraft & DIC both of which had the money ready for them but Parry waited for Gillett to come back with Hicks with a revised offer. Why would he give them so much grace? Surely he had some cut in the deal? Why would anyone wait 3 months when you had 2/3 groups ready with the cash. DIC could see they were being screwed with & hence they pulled out. Now after Parry gave the go ahead for the sale everything went down hill, we havent won a single trophy since! Rafa was always kept in the dark over club matters, still hasnt had complete control over the transfer funds, told he was to get 20 mill to spend plus what ever he got back from sales but then all of a sudden when key players like Carra, Gerrard, Riena, Macherano & Torres renewed contracts with the club, salaries were being drawn from the transfer kitty. I would be pissed off if I were Rafa. Parry got kicked out & these same lies were told again. Now we hear last week that members of LFC's board confirmed that they are in discussions with Real Madrid in bringing Van Der Vaart to Anfield next season. Rafa doesnt know a thing about this and isnt interested in the player.

Now if you go behind your main mans back to do deals like this, can you blame the guy to be pissed off? Yes I have mixed feelings about Rafa, one hand I want him to go because certain decisions of his frustrate me & as well as his tactics in certain games, but if clubs like Real Madrid, Juventus & now recently Inter are hoping to line him up if Jose go's to Real want Rafa, how can he be that bad if top clubs want his services? Also who are Liverpool going to get? Its clear what frustration they've put Rafa in over the past 3/4 years, would any manager in their right mind want to go through crap like that? I think not.

All I want to know now is if the players have faith in their manager, esp the main ones. Gerrard, Carra, Torres, Masch. If they have lost faith in Rafa then I say let him go. No use having your star players if they not happy with the manager. Its like Terry, Lampard & the guys at Chelski, they were unhappy with Scolari & so he was shown the door, simple as that, see how they are performing now. That for me is key at this current moment in time. But as Rafa said, we should not be worrying about his job, the main thing is worrying about the club. Its up for sale, this nimrods want to offload it at 3 times the price and knowing them they will sell it to the first nut job that comes to them with a cheque book. We need good decent owners to take us forward. I said it before, guys that buy our club need to be interested in running a football club, have knowledge of the game & club. Interested in investing heavily into players & a new stadium as well as running it smoothly.

[superskully]

Dont you just love the fact how everyone knows everything about LFC. Bottom line is no one knows squat about the club, its finances & transfers! We are lead to believe every single thing thats printed in the media. "Rafa didnt flush after he went for a number 2 at Melwood" headline in the Daily Mirror, next thing you know everyone is talking about Rafa's failure to flush. FFS! Theres one thing that Rafa wanted when taking over. He wanted things done his way, I say why not? All big clubs let their managers have complete control over matters than concern them. Rafa was never allowed the privilege. In a club you have scouts that advise you on up & coming players also players that would work with your squad. Rafa had idea's, he had options of bringing players in but it was all down to a prick named Rick Parry who gave it the seal of approval, now him classifying himself as the club manager also decided to buy few players himself. Namely Keane, Bellamy. Both players fair enough are good players, but if you making cake, why would you want to add cheese & bacon to it? You better off with chocolate and cream.

Like Dellboy said in last nights MNF, the problem started with the Moore's family, them & Rick Parry have done nothing good for the club at all in the past 20 years. If anything they are the ones that brought us down to the gutter we find ourself in now. Stupid decisions made by them eg: allowing H&G to buy LFC cost us big time. David Moores was merely a puppet with Parry for some reasons pulling all the strings, Kraft came in from the US 4 years ago and offered them 350million pounds for LFC, they declined the offer & even said they were not considering selling LFC, the next year they put it up for sale, ignore Kraft & DIC both of which had the money ready for them but Parry waited for Gillett to come back with Hicks with a revised offer. Why would he give them so much grace? Surely he had some cut in the deal? Why would anyone wait 3 months when you had 2/3 groups ready with the cash. DIC could see they were being screwed with & hence they pulled out. Now after Parry gave the go ahead for the sale everything went down hill, we havent won a single trophy since! Rafa was always kept in the dark over club matters, still hasnt had complete control over the transfer funds, told he was to get 20 mill to spend plus what ever he got back from sales but then all of a sudden when key players like Carra, Gerrard, Riena, Macherano & Torres renewed contracts with the club, salaries were being drawn from the transfer kitty. I would be pissed off if I were Rafa. Parry got kicked out & these same lies were told again. Now we hear last week that members of LFC's board confirmed that they are in discussions with Real Madrid in bringing Van Der Vaart to Anfield next season. Rafa doesnt know a thing about this and isnt interested in the player.

Now if you go behind your main mans back to do deals like this, can you blame the guy to be pissed off? Yes I have mixed feelings about Rafa, one hand I want him to go because certain decisions of his frustrate me & as well as his tactics in certain games, but if clubs like Real Madrid, Juventus & now recently Inter are hoping to line him up if Jose go's to Real want Rafa, how can he be that bad if top clubs want his services? Also who are Liverpool going to get? Its clear what frustration they've put Rafa in over the past 3/4 years, would any manager in their right mind want to go through crap like that? I think not.

All I want to know now is if the players have faith in their manager, esp the main ones. Gerrard, Carra, Torres, Masch. If they have lost faith in Rafa then I say let him go. No use having your star players if they not happy with the manager. Its like Terry, Lampard & the guys at Chelski, they were unhappy with Scolari & so he was shown the door, simple as that, see how they are performing now. That for me is key at this current moment in time. But as Rafa said, we should not be worrying about his job, the main thing is worrying about the club. Its up for sale, this nimrods want to offload it at 3 times the price and knowing them they will sell it to the first nut job that comes to them with a cheque book. We need good decent owners to take us forward. I said it before, guys that buy our club need to be interested in running a football club, have knowledge of the game & club. Interested in investing heavily into players & a new stadium as well as running it smoothly.

So so u write this.
I was also a big fan of rafa until this season - where it is my belief players lost faith in him) or they could have lost faith in LFC's future cos of the damned americans - who knows but them).
So a choice between Rafa and Stevie G, is not really a choice really.
If i were to wish, those damned americans must go.
SO many rumours out there...

[nivek]

Dont you just love the fact how everyone knows everything about LFC. Bottom line is no one knows squat about the club, its finances & transfers! We are lead to believe every single thing thats printed in the media. "Rafa didnt flush after he went for a number 2 at Melwood" headline in the Daily Mirror, next thing you know everyone is talking about Rafa's failure to flush. FFS! Theres one thing that Rafa wanted when taking over. He wanted things done his way, I say why not? All big clubs let their managers have complete control over matters than concern them. Rafa was never allowed the privilege. In a club you have scouts that advise you on up & coming players also players that would work with your squad. Rafa had idea's, he had options of bringing players in but it was all down to a prick named Rick Parry who gave it the seal of approval, now him classifying himself as the club manager also decided to buy few players himself. Namely Keane, Bellamy. Both players fair enough are good players, but if you making cake, why would you want to add cheese & bacon to it? You better off with chocolate and cream.

Like Dellboy said in last nights MNF, the problem started with the Moore's family, them & Rick Parry have done nothing good for the club at all in the past 20 years. If anything they are the ones that brought us down to the gutter we find ourself in now. Stupid decisions made by them eg: allowing H&G to buy LFC cost us big time. David Moores was merely a puppet with Parry for some reasons pulling all the strings, Kraft came in from the US 4 years ago and offered them 350million pounds for LFC, they declined the offer & even said they were not considering selling LFC, the next year they put it up for sale, ignore Kraft & DIC both of which had the money ready for them but Parry waited for Gillett to come back with Hicks with a revised offer. Why would he give them so much grace? Surely he had some cut in the deal? Why would anyone wait 3 months when you had 2/3 groups ready with the cash. DIC could see they were being screwed with & hence they pulled out. Now after Parry gave the go ahead for the sale everything went down hill, we havent won a single trophy since! Rafa was always kept in the dark over club matters, still hasnt had complete control over the transfer funds, told he was to get 20 mill to spend plus what ever he got back from sales but then all of a sudden when key players like Carra, Gerrard, Riena, Macherano & Torres renewed contracts with the club, salaries were being drawn from the transfer kitty. I would be pissed off if I were Rafa. Parry got kicked out & these same lies were told again. Now we hear last week that members of LFC's board confirmed that they are in discussions with Real Madrid in bringing Van Der Vaart to Anfield next season. Rafa doesnt know a thing about this and isnt interested in the player.

Now if you go behind your main mans back to do deals like this, can you blame the guy to be pissed off? Yes I have mixed feelings about Rafa, one hand I want him to go because certain decisions of his frustrate me & as well as his tactics in certain games, but if clubs like Real Madrid, Juventus & now recently Inter are hoping to line him up if Jose go's to Real want Rafa, how can he be that bad if top clubs want his services? Also who are Liverpool going to get? Its clear what frustration they've put Rafa in over the past 3/4 years, would any manager in their right mind want to go through crap like that? I think not.

All I want to know now is if the players have faith in their manager, esp the main ones. Gerrard, Carra, Torres, Masch. If they have lost faith in Rafa then I say let him go. No use having your star players if they not happy with the manager. Its like Terry, Lampard & the guys at Chelski, they were unhappy with Scolari & so he was shown the door, simple as that, see how they are performing now. That for me is key at this current moment in time. But as Rafa said, we should not be worrying about his job, the main thing is worrying about the club. Its up for sale, this nimrods want to offload it at 3 times the price and knowing them they will sell it to the first nut job that comes to them with a cheque book. We need good decent owners to take us forward. I said it before, guys that buy our club need to be interested in running a football club, have knowledge of the game & club. Interested in investing heavily into players & a new stadium as well as running it smoothly.


Dude in the first paragraph you use the line


Dont you just love the fact how everyone knows everything about LFC. Bottom line is no one knows squat about the club, its finances & transfers! We are lead to believe every single thing thats printed in the media. to support Rafa and downplay anything negative posted in the press about him, but then in your 3rd paragraph you use information from the same media to lambaste the owners?

Its been talked about over and over, Rafa has had the money he just chooses to spend it on ineffective players, if I was an owner I also wouldnt trust Rafa with my money given his track record, and van der vaart would be a good signing, too good to be rafa's idea anyway

[Randhir]

Rafa doesn't flush? Eeeeww...... Waiters are supposed to be clean.. Sounds like he works at Shena****nz...

[hawker]

I think something needs to be done to shake up that club. i.e. get the Americans to leave.

[iceman23]

Indeed.



Good point. I'd point out that Alonso was exceptional last season, our best player but if Rafa had his way Alonso would have been sold and replaced with Barry at the start of the season:o. IMO Alonso would still be here had it not been for Rafa's appalling treatment towards him. Many other players at Liverpool have also been messed around by Rafa which does not go unnoticed by the rest of the team. Players are less inclined to fight for a manager they don't trust or have affinity for when the going gets tough.

Arsenal did not implode after they lost key players like Viera and Henry. Neither did they spend mega money to replace those players.



I think it's rather sad how Gerrard is being made a scapegoat by those seeking to deflect blame from Rafa. For years he has single-handedly carried this club on his back. Repeatedly he has got Rafa out a sticky spot with superlative individual performances. Yet he is expected to do this game in and game out while Rafa is excused for spending 23+million on a bench warmer this season and 17million on a RB. Ah but it's Gerrard to blame for not scoring his allotment of 30 yard wonder strikes in the 92nd minute of games.....

Remember Rafa only won his two major trophies on the lottery of penalties. The team only got to that point largely thanks to Gerrard.



They play to the tactics employed by the manager. Which is often slow tempo defensive and cynical. If they're told to not get caught out of position going forward and play counter attack don't blame them if it results in a spectacle of standing around passing the ball sideways then ultimately lobbing it aimlessly forward to the opposition CB.

Nail hit firmly on head.

If Gerrard had went to Chelsea in 2004 Rafa would be out of a job. That I am pretty sure off.

I really don't know where this fanatical Rafa support comes from. Really I dont.

[AMG133]

Dude in the first paragraph you use the line
to support Rafa and downplay anything negative posted in the press about him, but then in your 3rd paragraph you use information from the same media to lambaste the owners?

Theres a difference between truth & fitction


Its been talked about over and over, Rafa has had the money he just chooses to spend it on ineffective players, if I was an owner I also wouldnt trust Rafa with my money given his track record, and van der vaart would be a good signing, too good to be rafa's idea anyway

All thats been talked about is the sum total, not the allocated kitty he was allowed to use. Why wont people understand, each friggin window he was only given 20! yes Aquilani cost 21 but he got the extra cash by offloaded Xabi & Arbeloa! Plus given that fact we needed a creative midfielder who would you have suggested we bought? As I said before, Real went and cocked up the market by throwing cash around like its fun so all the clubs double or trebled the prices of their players!

[Alan]

Nail hit firmly on head.

If Gerrard had went to Chelsea in 2004 Rafa would be out of a job. That I am pretty sure off.

He was on the brink of leaving thanks to being messed around by Rafa as well.

To be fair though he was trying to milk more money for himself.

What annoys me too are players like Torres and Gerrard claiming trophies is their main aim while asking for funds to be spent by the club to achieve that aim yet they earn 100 000+ per week. Honestly do they really need that kind of cash. If the top 3 earners at the club took a pay cut of around a third off their wages that would free up 100 000+ off the wage bill to be spent on new players.

They need to put their money where their mouth is /me thinks


I really don't know where this fanatical Rafa support comes from. Really I dont.

I found it absolutely staggering.

[iceman23]

He was on the brink of leaving thanks to being messed around by Rafa as well.

To be fair though he was trying to milk more money for himself.

What annoys me too are players like Torres and Gerrard claiming trophies is their main aim while asking for funds to be spent by the club to achieve that aim yet they earn 100 000+ per week. Honestly do they really need that kind of cash. If the top 3 earners at the club took a pay cut of around a third off their wages that would free up 100 000+ off the wage bill to be spent on new players.

They need to put their money where their mouth is /me thinks



I found it absolutely staggering.

Agree about the wages. I guess its human nature to constantly want more. I'm guilty of it myself but you would think that at their level they wouldn't really be driven too much by it.

[Randhir]

Theres a difference between truth & fitction


So how come you get to make that distinction?



All thats been talked about is the sum total, not the allocated kitty he was allowed to use. Why wont people understand, each friggin window he was only given 20! yes Aquilani cost 21 but he got the extra cash by offloaded Xabi & Arbeloa! Plus given that fact we needed a creative midfielder who would you have suggested we bought? As I said before, Real went and cocked up the market by throwing cash around like its fun so all the clubs double or trebled the prices of their players!

Glen Johnson, Aquilani, Kyriagos. Only one worth it based on consistency, games played and performance, was Kyriagos. That's bad management.

[superskully]

So how come you get to make that distinction?



Glen Johnson, Aquilani, Kyriagos. Only one worth it based on consistency, games played and performance, was Kyriagos. That's bad management.

The greek was a good backup though Hypia would have been better.
Bad management for Aqua though i would say he is a real class player - the next Stevie G if he can avoid injuries.
Consdering his playing time, i found this to be quite useful:
2 Goals (double that of Lucas)
And most suprising: 6 assist in EPl, 2nd behind Gerrard on 7.

[fishfly]

Aquaman is worth mentioning yet Rafa publically declares that he won't play him cos the team sucks

[Randhir]

The greek was a good backup though Hypia would have been better.
Bad management for Aqua though i would say he is a real class player - the next Stevie G if he can avoid injuries.
Consdering his playing time, i found this to be quite useful:
2 Goals (double that of Lucas)
And most suprising: 6 assist in EPl, 2nd behind Gerrard on 7.

I think he's a good player, and my comment was based on the back of Rafa's decisions, not AA's performances. I'm saying, for that price, one would an expect a player who would make a positive impact, and even taking into account his injury, he should have been played more often. There's no point bringing good players on only when your team is out of everything.

[AMG133]

Glen Johnson, Aquilani, Kyriagos. Only one worth it based on consistency, games played and performance, was Kyriagos. That's bad management.

Yes because 2/3 were injured, Glen missed half the season & same can be said for Alberto, he was rushed into action & it had its consequences

[Randhir]

Yes because 2/3 were injured, Glen missed half the season & same can be said for Alberto, he was rushed into action & it had its consequences

Rushed my arse. Even when he was fit he was warming the bench.

In any case, that's my point. Once again - I'm not undermining the quality of the players, I'm saying for the return Liverpool got from them this season (playing well and starting often), only Kyriagos was worth it.

[superskully]

Rushed my arse. Even when he was fit he was warming the bench.

In any case, that's my point. Once again - I'm not undermining the quality of the players, I'm saying for the return Liverpool got from them this season (playing well and starting often), only Kyriagos was worth it.

Yep.
And Aquilani was not rushed, he was warming the bench.
I remember him being fit for the lague cup game against Arsenal, yet he came off the bench and almost scored - plus sent a 50m pass aka Alonso.
From them onwards he never play - Rafa said he did not want to rush him.
He continued not to play him - to the point when he was given a few mins of the bench he was rusty - still had the quality but some passes were poor.
Then got injured again - but was never rushed back.

[AMG133]

Well thats what Rafa said, according to him that game against Arsenal was where they rushed him, from there he strained his ankle, then he had another problem, then he got the flu twice & had the runs once, how much of that is true only he knows.

[hawker]

So, what would we like to see our club do next season?

[superskully]

So, what would we like to see our club do next season?

Get rid of thos damned cursed americans who came in just to make a profit.
Imagine they want to sell at a 300% profit when the team is doing so badly.
I rather have Rafa there then them.

[hawker]

Yea! I agree, if we can get rid of those bloody Americans I won't mind too much if Rafa stays. However if Rafa goes and the Americans stay :O

[superskully]

Yea! I agree, if we can get rid of those bloody Americans I won't mind too much if Rafa stays. However if Rafa goes and the Americans stay :O

Problem is if Rafa goes with the americans still there, at what cost will it be and which manager will we then be able to afford.
Fact is we have to sell players to keep the club afloat thanks to the interest payments.
It almost a certainity that Torres will be sold with Chelsea and City willing to pay. That money will be used to pay debt rather than be re-invested.
Imagine having Ngog there as our only striker.

[poolmania]

I think he's a good player, and my comment was based on the back of Rafa's decisions, not AA's performances. I'm saying, for that price, one would an expect a player who would make a positive impact, and even taking into account his injury, he should have been played more often. There's no point bringing good players on only when your team is out of everything.

You're one of the posters on here that makes sense and makes a good argument but the above is nonsense.

At 20 Million, please name me a creative midfielder who could of made the difference you talking about in the season that Liverpool has had.

[poolmania]

So how come you get to make that distinction?



Glen Johnson, Aquilani, Kyriagos. Only one worth it based on consistency, games played and performance, was Kyriagos. That's bad management.

Come on.....seriously?

[fishfly]

You're one of the posters on here that makes sense and makes a good argument but the above is nonsense.

At 20 Million, please name me a creative midfielder who could of made the difference you talking about in the season that Liverpool has had.

Milner (AV), Mordric (TH), Etherington (Stoke), Barry Ferguson (Birmingham), Marouane Fellaini (Everton), need I go on?

[Randhir]

You're one of the posters on here that makes sense and makes a good argument


Thanks



At 20 Million, please name me a creative midfielder who could of made the difference you talking about in the season that Liverpool has had.

I get the feeling that I'm still being misunderstood. I'm not saying he didn't make a difference, nor am I saying another player would have done a better job. I'm saying through no fault of his own, that he had a dimished impact at the club because the manager refused to give him game time when he was fit, and on the bench, and Liverpool were struggling for goals, and your most creative influences were either injured or dog tired.

Even Messi wouldn't have been able to make a difference if he was on the bench for so much of the season.

[Randhir]

Come on.....seriously?

How is it good? His 20m signing has hardly played (and was bought injured, rendering him useless for the first half of the campaign), the 17m signing has been on and off the field with injuries(which has been a problem even before he was bought), and has been repeatedly criticised for his lack of defensive abilities.

For my money, a player like Kyriagos who was bought mainly as a precaution, has done excellently. And he was cheap.

[fishfly]

How is it good? His 20m signing has hardly played (and was bought injured, rendering him useless for the first half of the campaign), the 17m signing has been on and off the field with injuries(which has been a problem even before he was bought), and has been repeatedly criticised for his lack of defensive abilities.

For my money, a player like Kyriagos who was bought mainly as a precaution, has done excellently. And he was cheap.

Moral of the story, stop trying to depend on big signings to get you somewhere, try build your own team, look at Tottenham, they got rid of the captain and got in a few unknowns that managed to get them into the CL.

United spent a crap load on Berbatov whilst Owen who came in for nothing has won crucial matches.

[nivek]

Moral of the story, stop trying to depend on big signings to get you somewhere, try build your own team, look at Tottenham, they got rid of the captain and got in a few unknowns that managed to get them into the CL.

United spent a crap load on Berbatov whilst Owen who came in for nothing has won crucial matches.

Exactly, this season is just evidence that Rafa is nothing but a crap coach that will get nowhere without a big cheque book, i'd love to see what Moyes or Hodgeson would be able to do with the exact same players Rafa currently has

Here's a good read on the subject
http://www.arsenal.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=518593

I can't stand Rafa (he let Spurs get 4th spot, ffs), all he has is excuses, and the owners are just a scapegoat for his pathetic coaching ability

[akescpt]

letting rafa buy a creative player is pointless...he will suck whateva creativity he has and put it in a box and lock it in his desk draw. then he will type out 2 pages of instructions and tell him to go follow that to the letter! i prefer liverpool to play without gerrard and torres because then they actually haveta take the finger out of their bums and do something...its easy to play 'give it to gerrard' or 'lob it to torres'...the solution to give rafa more money is crazy...he has proved he cant nurture young raw talent...he has proved that most of his signings are disastrous...i dont consider torres a success cos he was a goal machine before he came...he just needed a change of scenery/new challenge...oh and as we speak club officials are negotiating with van der vaart...another bench warmer of note for next year...robbie keane all over again....rafa did not initiate this...and rafa has proven that he is not scared to cut off his nose to spite his face badly...

i read somewhere that the owners said it will take 2 years to sell the club...2 more years of mediocrity...just swell...

[poolmania]

Milner (AV), Mordric (TH), Etherington (Stoke), Barry Ferguson (Birmingham), Marouane Fellaini (Everton), need I go on?

Hahahaha......

Milner btw would of cost more than 20 million.

[nivek]

Hahahaha......

Milner btw would of cost more than 20 million.



Milner signed for Aston Villa on 29 August 2008 for a fee of twelve million pounds,[55] and signed a four-year contract with the club.[56]

Dont think that wouldve doubled in 1 season, given his 2008/09 season wasnt that great

[nivek]

Milner (AV), Mordric (TH), Etherington (Stoke), Barry Ferguson (Birmingham), Marouane Fellaini (Everton), need I go on?

STEVEN PIENAAR ;)
But he has a better coach at Everton so its a good thing for SA that he stays where he is

[hawker]

STEVEN PIENAAR ;)
But he has a better coach at Everton so its a good thing for SA that he stays where he is

If he came to LFC he wouldn't play much.

[poolmania]

Dont think that wouldve doubled in 1 season, given his 2008/09 season wasnt that great

Of coarse it would of. Aston Villa selling one of their better players to Liverpool. Good grief.

[fishfly]

Of coarse it would of. Aston Villa selling one of their better players to Liverpool. Good grief.

Lmao you funny... you said for 20 mill this season who could Pooh have bought? Milner was not a 20 million player last season, neither was any of the performers this season worth 20 bar last season :D

[iceman23]

So are we giving him a new contract for his outstanding achievement of finishing 7th in the league playing exhilarating football. I mean which other manager in world football could take us to those heights? Maybe Barcelona are trying to copy our style of football.

[akescpt]

a draw at hull to finish the season..about right for what has been a shocking year..

[nivek]

yeah and now we can look forward to watching 8 months of newcastle suffering :) thank you liverpool for kindly filling in this past season

[superskully]

Well i think maybe finishing 7th is not such a bad thing.
What we need to realise is that the current financial models with Football are not sustainable.
UTD - on debt.
chelsea and City - what they are spending (and wasting) is bound to hit the pockets of their sugar daddy's.
Real - 200 million in loans for their spending spree last year.

Arsenal and Barca are not so bad as they rely on youth.
Maybe its time we do the same.
Give Rafa credit - he has improved the academy since he took over last year. We do have good youngsters. We just need a better coach to help them make the final step (take the credit back from Rafa).
So maybe we can start rebuilding and we will wait.

[akescpt]

if liverpool had wayne rooney he wouldnt have made it into the big time...rafa doesnt nurture talent he destroys it..or leaves it languishing in the reserves..

[AMG133]

I can't stand Rafa (he let Spurs get 4th spot, ffs), all he has is excuses, and the owners are just a scapegoat for his pathetic coaching ability

really? Same coach that lead us to 2nd place last season... with virtually the same team & if my memory serves me correct our points tally last season is exactly the same as Chelsea's title winning total this season.

Do us a favour :)

[AMG133]

Lmao you funny... you said for 20 mill this season who could Pooh have bought? Milner was not a 20 million player last season, neither was any of the performers this season worth 20 bar last season :D

Dude with Barry gone there was no way in hell O Niel would have sold Milner

[AMG133]

So are we giving him a new contract for his outstanding achievement of finishing 7th in the league playing exhilarating football. I mean which other manager in world football could take us to those heights? Maybe Barcelona are trying to copy our style of football.

he has 4 years left

[nivek]

really? Same coach that lead us to 2nd place last season... with virtually the same team & if my memory serves me correct our points tally last season is exactly the same as Chelsea's title winning total this season.

Do us a favour :)

Yea ok, do us a favour also and keep Rafa for a few more seasons :)

[AMG133]

if liverpool had wayne rooney he wouldnt have made it into the big time...rafa doesnt nurture talent he destroys it..or leaves it languishing in the reserves..

uhuh, hence we've signed 60% of the top rated youngsters in Europe...

[AMG133]

Yea ok, do us a favour also and keep Rafa for a few more seasons :)

I dont mind given we get the right owners, depends on them entirely. If I had the money I would leave him there for 1 more season & see how he fair's

[nivek]

really? Same coach that lead us to 2nd place last season... with virtually the same team & if my memory serves me correct our points tally last season is exactly the same as Chelsea's title winning total this season.

Do us a favour :)

Sorry and another thing, thats a good point you made, finishing 2nd last season and 7th this season, its probably easy to coach and lead a team high on confidence, going from one winning game to another, which is what took pool to 2nd place
But its also the managers responsibility to instill confidence in his team when they are down, something that Rafa failed to do from the first kick off of this past season
Do you think someone like Mourinho wouldve finished 7th with the exact same team Rafa started the season with?

[AMG133]

So drew the end of a horror season for Liverpool football club, fitting that the last game of the season was just that, a horror show but spared from blushes by some woefull finishing on Hull's part. We hit the woodwork twice & had a goal cleared off the line but I feel the result was a true reflection on the game. Both teams tried, but never really tried if you know what Im saying. Switching channels watching all the games Supersport had to show our game was the worst, chatting to Carly Weinberg from etv whilst watching, she was livid that SS gave preference to Liverpool over Arsenals fixture. It was a season to forget for us. The look on Gerrards face towards the end of the game said it all, it was almost like "you got to be joking" when he hit the post. The squad looking subdue with only Lucas for some reason looking fresh as a daisy. I think since the semi final we just lost our way. It didnt cost us much, we wouldnt have caught up with Spuds even though they lost yesterday. I think everyone is glad to see the back of this season & hopes things will get sorted out with regards to the club during the summer. On a positive note Rafa gave 16 year old Jack Robinson his first team debut making him the 5th youngest player to debut in the EPL. He even had a volley at goal which was on target but was blocked by a Hull player.

What needs to be done in the summer is crucial, we need some players of quality & the manager knows that. He said in an interview after his meeting with the Chairman that he knows which players must stay & which he needs gone. As I said I have mixed feeling over Rafa but over all I know he is a good manager, we cant keep judging people on 1 season. Yes he has had 6 years to win us the league but we the supporters know the truth of things. Last season we came close & unless Liverpool win the UK Lotto I dont see much happening in terms of us getting a new manager like the caliber of Jose or Carlo. SAF is a good manager but compared to the 2, he cannot be compared. If he had to go to any other club now I doubt he can do in the first season what those 2 have done. He is United, part of their furniture almost. He knows his team, he has full control over them & thats where the difference is, Liverpool & United are a like, we want to build relationships with Managers & give them support but with our arse of owners I dont see it happening. Rafa's revamped the staff & brought in some great guys. The guy incharge of the academy is one of the best in the business, he was at Barca & over saw most of the current Barca first team players coming through the ranks.

People questioning Rafa's buys, 1) Glen Johnson - Englands first choice right back.... besides that accolade he has scored some crucial goals for us & although he isnt the best at defending he hardly let us down this season aside from getting injured. The price was high but with Arbeloa gone & Chelsea wanting him again Pompey had to up their price on him. I think his a good buy.

2) Alberto Aquilani - bought him injured, took time for him to get fit but right now after getting decent game time & adjusting to things in the premiership we are seeing glimpses of what he can offer. Even United fans from abroad have been saying they look forward to seeing what he can do next season.

3) Maxi - when he first came to us in Jan, he was useless, but of recent he has adapted very well to the English game, pitty he was cup tied for the Europa League, we needed him for the semi's

4) Soto Kyrgiakos - The greek giant, for me his hardly done anything wrong this season. His good in the air, strong defender and scores the occasional goal.

None of these players are "world class" but Im not saying that they cant be, given time who knows what they can achive, esp with the 1st two

[AMG133]

Sorry and another thing, thats a good point you made, finishing 2nd last season and 7th this season, its probably easy to coach and lead a team high on confidence, going from one winning game to another, which is what took pool to 2nd place
But its also the managers responsibility to instill confidence in his team when they are down, something that Rafa failed to do from the first kick off of this past season
Do you think someone like Mourinho wouldve finished 7th with the exact same team Rafa started the season with?

I cant answer that question, 2 managers that approach the game very tactically but have different views on many things. Its hard to tell, maybe not 7th but I cant say he could have taken us to 3rd or 4th

[nivek]

So drew the end of a horror season for Liverpool football club, fitting that the last game of the season was just that, a horror show but spared from blushes by some woefull finishing on Hull's part. We hit the woodwork twice & had a goal cleared off the line but I feel the result was a true reflection on the game. Both teams tried, but never really tried if you know what Im saying. Switching channels watching all the games Supersport had to show our game was the worst, chatting to Carly Weinberg from etv whilst watching, she was livid that SS gave preference to Liverpool over Arsenals fixture. It was a season to forget for us. The look on Gerrards face towards the end of the game said it all, it was almost like "you got to be joking" when he hit the post. The squad looking subdue with only Lucas for some reason looking fresh as a daisy. I think since the semi final we just lost our way. It didnt cost us much, we wouldnt have caught up with Spuds even though they lost yesterday. I think everyone is glad to see the back of this season & hopes things will get sorted out with regards to the club during the summer. On a positive note Rafa gave 16 year old Jack Robinson his first team debut making him the 5th youngest player to debut in the EPL. He even had a volley at goal which was on target but was blocked by a Hull player.

What needs to be done in the summer is crucial, we need some players of quality & the manager knows that. He said in an interview after his meeting with the Chairman that he knows which players must stay & which he needs gone. As I said I have mixed feeling over Rafa but over all I know he is a good manager, we cant keep judging people on 1 season. Yes he has had 6 years to win us the league but we the supporters know the truth of things. Last season we came close & unless Liverpool win the UK Lotto I dont see much happening in terms of us getting a new manager like the caliber of Jose or Carlo. SAF is a good manager but compared to the 2, he cannot be compared. If he had to go to any other club now I doubt he can do in the first season what those 2 have done. He is United, part of their furniture almost. He knows his team, he has full control over them & thats where the difference is, Liverpool & United are a like, we want to build relationships with Managers & give them support but with our arse of owners I dont see it happening. Rafa's revamped the staff & brought in some great guys. The guy incharge of the academy is one of the best in the business, he was at Barca & over saw most of the current Barca first team players coming through the ranks.

People questioning Rafa's buys, 1) Glen Johnson - Englands first choice right back.... besides that accolade he has scored some crucial goals for us & although he isnt the best at defending he hardly let us down this season aside from getting injured. The price was high but with Arbeloa gone & Chelsea wanting him again Pompey had to up their price on him. I think his a good buy.

2) Alberto Aquilani - bought him injured, took time for him to get fit but right now after getting decent game time & adjusting to things in the premiership we are seeing glimpses of what he can offer. Even United fans from abroad have been saying they look forward to seeing what he can do next season.

3) Maxi - when he first came to us in Jan, he was useless, but of recent he has adapted very well to the English game, pitty he was cup tied for the Europa League, we needed him for the semi's

4) Soto Kyrgiakos - The greek giant, for me his hardly done anything wrong this season. His good in the air, strong defender and scores the occasional goal.

None of these players are "world class" but Im not saying that they cant be, given time who knows what they can achive, esp with the 1st two

I think the fact your game was broadcast had more to do with Hull, than Liverpool ;)
They always show the relegation battle and the title battle

[AMG133]

but it was decided a week ago? surely they knew that.... Supersport do reschedule things at last minute... I know we got them to do it for us (Liverpool supporters) :D

[nivek]

I dont think its up to them though, its what the PL provide them with
afaik arsenal wasnt shown on sky either

[iceman23]

Rafa Benitez is like the ANC. Not good enough but the masses are firmly in favour.

He has redefined the meaning of "success".

[AMG133]

I dont think its up to them though, its what the PL provide them with
afaik arsenal wasnt shown on sky either

not really, they get all the games provided for, they decide what they show live & what they dont. Half the games in UK arnt shown live with just a select few. Most of them are shown delayed.

[AMG133]

Rafa Benitez is like the ANC. Not good enough but the masses are firmly in favour.

He has redefined the meaning of "success".

I see where you going with this but in your opinion who can we get that could do a better job?

[Randhir]

I see where you going with this but in your opinion who can we get that could do a better job?

Tough to get a first rate manager who isn't gonna be competing in the Champion's League (unless you can throw money at them like City)

[hawker]

So drew the end of a horror season for Liverpool football club, fitting that the last game of the season was just that, a horror show but spared from blushes by some woefull finishing on Hull's part. We hit the woodwork twice & had a goal cleared off the line but I feel the result was a true reflection on the game. Both teams tried, but never really tried if you know what Im saying. Switching channels watching all the games Supersport had to show our game was the worst, chatting to Carly Weinberg from etv whilst watching, she was livid that SS gave preference to Liverpool over Arsenals fixture. It was a season to forget for us. The look on Gerrards face towards the end of the game said it all, it was almost like "you got to be joking" when he hit the post. The squad looking subdue with only Lucas for some reason looking fresh as a daisy. I think since the semi final we just lost our way. It didnt cost us much, we wouldnt have caught up with Spuds even though they lost yesterday. I think everyone is glad to see the back of this season & hopes things will get sorted out with regards to the club during the summer. On a positive note Rafa gave 16 year old Jack Robinson his first team debut making him the 5th youngest player to debut in the EPL. He even had a volley at goal which was on target but was blocked by a Hull player.

What needs to be done in the summer is crucial, we need some players of quality & the manager knows that. He said in an interview after his meeting with the Chairman that he knows which players must stay & which he needs gone. As I said I have mixed feeling over Rafa but over all I know he is a good manager, we cant keep judging people on 1 season. Yes he has had 6 years to win us the league but we the supporters know the truth of things. Last season we came close & unless Liverpool win the UK Lotto I dont see much happening in terms of us getting a new manager like the caliber of Jose or Carlo. SAF is a good manager but compared to the 2, he cannot be compared. If he had to go to any other club now I doubt he can do in the first season what those 2 have done. He is United, part of their furniture almost. He knows his team, he has full control over them & thats where the difference is, Liverpool & United are a like, we want to build relationships with Managers & give them support but with our arse of owners I dont see it happening. Rafa's revamped the staff & brought in some great guys. The guy incharge of the academy is one of the best in the business, he was at Barca & over saw most of the current Barca first team players coming through the ranks.

People questioning Rafa's buys, 1) Glen Johnson - Englands first choice right back.... besides that accolade he has scored some crucial goals for us & although he isnt the best at defending he hardly let us down this season aside from getting injured. The price was high but with Arbeloa gone & Chelsea wanting him again Pompey had to up their price on him. I think his a good buy.

2) Alberto Aquilani - bought him injured, took time for him to get fit but right now after getting decent game time & adjusting to things in the premiership we are seeing glimpses of what he can offer. Even United fans from abroad have been saying they look forward to seeing what he can do next season.

3) Maxi - when he first came to us in Jan, he was useless, but of recent he has adapted very well to the English game, pitty he was cup tied for the Europa League, we needed him for the semi's

4) Soto Kyrgiakos - The greek giant, for me his hardly done anything wrong this season. His good in the air, strong defender and scores the occasional goal.

None of these players are "world class" but Im not saying that they cant be, given time who knows what they can achive, esp with the 1st two

This sums up exactly how I feel about the season and the club. Lets hope we can get some quality players in during the break and hopefully get rid of the Americans!

[Alan]

Rafa Benitez is like the ANC. Not good enough but the masses are firmly in favour.

He has redefined the meaning of "success".

Yeah embarrassing isn't it. :(

Season is over no more ghastly displays to dispel the myth so the excuses are coming thick and fast.

Laughing stock.....

Lets have a poll so we get the fans here true stance. No more obscure comments after a disastrous embarrassing loss to some minnow we get during the season from Rafa cultists only for them to come out guns blazing in his defence after a good result or at the end of the season.

So a clear 'Rafa Out' or 'Rafa Stay' will suffice.

Rafa Out.

[iceman23]

I see where you going with this but in your opinion who can we get that could do a better job?

I will get flamed for this but the man who is needed in the interim is already at the club. No one is going to galvanise and unite the liverpool fan base like Kenny Dalglish will. At least we may get some semblance of what football is supposed to be played like.

We are not going to get a top manager in our predicamanet but that is absolutely no reason to keep a manager that is underperforming and who is able to start a fight in an empty room. The politics are not going to stop. There is going to be no transfer funds no matter how much he moans in the press. If the club does not have the money where does he expect us to find it. To take on more debt so he can buy another Aquilani, Keane, Dossena, Riera, Kuyt. Yeah I can see how thats in the best interest of Liverpool FC. I can also how it was the best interests of the club to fight for a contract that makes him unsackable no matter how he performs. Do we need someone that is constantly falling out with people and doing it mainly in public. That's not the Liverpool way. Did you hear the SG stories? Obviously they are just rumours but they are coming from so many different sources that its becoming harder and harder to ignore. No smoke without fire and all that.

We need someone to focus on the football and get the most out of our existing squad instead of playing politics with the board, fans, press etc. If he cannot get the most out of our existing squad, how the hell can we expect him to get the most out of new signings.

I also really believe that if we keep Benitez we WILL lose Gerrard and I know (IMO) who's more important to Liverpool Football Club any day of the week.

[poolmania]

Yeah embarrassing isn't it. :(

Season is over no more ghastly displays to dispel the myth so the excuses are coming thick and fast.

Laughing stock.....

Lets have a poll so we get the fans here true stance. No more obscure comments after a disastrous embarrassing loss to some minnow we get during the season from Rafa cultists only for them to come out guns blazing in his defence after a good result or at the end of the season.

So a clear 'Rafa Out' or 'Rafa Stay' will suffice.

Rafa Out.

Rafa Stay

[akescpt]

the question of new coach is indeed a troubling one...but one thing is for sure and that is that club business needs to be sorted out and like last week...i think its shocking that we have top management that dont talk to each other...everybody has to pull in the same direction...and everybody posturing and puffing out their chests has not helped...the owners detest each other..manager and club director relationship is strained...its ridiculous...like a playground really...this season has been disppointing in many respects but the most disapointing aspect is that their is no ray of light, no silver lining...its as dark as ever...and if someone doesnt stand up soon and sort this out things will get worse...

[poolmania]

Americans Out.

[fishfly]

just a Q does pool have a new sponsor? I see they have chinese writing on their shirts :D

[iceman23]

The chinese writing was Carlsberg's.

From next season it is a new sponsor, Standard Chartered.

[Sting]

Gerrard to Man City for 40m ?

[iceman23]

Rafa out

Americans out

Don't really care in what order...

[Demon7]

Rafa out.
no explanation required as the season results speak volumes..

[AMG133]

I will get flamed for this but the man who is needed in the interim is already at the club. No one is going to galvanise and unite the liverpool fan base like Kenny Dalglish will. At least we may get some semblance of what football is supposed to be played like.

We are not going to get a top manager in our predicamanet but that is absolutely no reason to keep a manager that is underperforming and who is able to start a fight in an empty room. The politics are not going to stop. There is going to be no transfer funds no matter how much he moans in the press. If the club does not have the money where does he expect us to find it. To take on more debt so he can buy another Aquilani, Keane, Dossena, Riera, Kuyt. Yeah I can see how thats in the best interest of Liverpool FC. I can also how it was the best interests of the club to fight for a contract that makes him unsackable no matter how he performs. Do we need someone that is constantly falling out with people and doing it mainly in public. That's not the Liverpool way. Did you hear the SG stories? Obviously they are just rumours but they are coming from so many different sources that its becoming harder and harder to ignore. No smoke without fire and all that.

We need someone to focus on the football and get the most out of our existing squad instead of playing politics with the board, fans, press etc. If he cannot get the most out of our existing squad, how the hell can we expect him to get the most out of new signings.

I also really believe that if we keep Benitez we WILL lose Gerrard and I know (IMO) who's more important to Liverpool Football Club any day of the week.

Not gona flame you, but Kenny said it himself. He aint cut out to be manager of any club let alone LFC. In his own words "Ive lost touch with the modern days game" things are worlds apart for him. I know it sounds silly, football is football but we really dont know how it go's at top level football. Im also concerned with Gerrards well being, its in our best intrest he stays at the club. We havent had him publicly state that he supports Rafa, but other major players have i.e Riena, Carra, Mascherano, Yossi & Torres. Gerrards our captain fantastic, pulled us out of head high ****, so will I'd love to know what he feels.

& as I said a million times, I have mixed feelings over him but from me.. for now its a

Rafa Stay

[sh4rpz]

just wondering: what's Kenny Dalglish's role in all of this? (if any)

[AMG133]

just a Q does pool have a new sponsor? I see they have chinese writing on their shirts :D


The chinese writing was Carlsberg's.

From next season it is a new sponsor, Standard Chartered.

yip, Liverpool the only UK city to have a stand at Shanghai World Expo. Plus Carlsberg were beefing up their asian advertisment

[AMG133]

just wondering: what's Kenny Dalglish's role in all of this? (if any)

advisory role & ambassador

[hawker]

Pepe Reina won the EPL golden glove. (Sharing it with Petr Cech though). Both kept 17 clean sheets this season.

[iceman23]

Not gona flame you, but Kenny said it himself. He aint cut out to be manager of any club let alone LFC. In his own words "Ive lost touch with the modern days game" things are worlds apart for him. I know it sounds silly, football is football but we really dont know how it go's at top level football. Im also concerned with Gerrards well being, its in our best intrest he stays at the club. We havent had him publicly state that he supports Rafa, but other major players have i.e Riena, Carra, Mascherano, Yossi & Torres. Gerrards our captain fantastic, pulled us out of head high ****, so will I'd love to know what he feels.

& as I said a million times, I have mixed feelings over him but from me.. for now its a

Rafa Stay

Strange, I saw an interview with Kenny a while back saying that we would have loved to manage LFC again. Maybe he changed his mind? Quite a few impeccable sources say he would love to manage in the interim but doesnt want a permanent contract. There have also been some rumours from not so impeccable sources that he and Rafa have fallen out as well. Its just a rumour but I wouldn't be surprised. Is there anyone that Rafa hasn't fallen out with?

Also, about players coming out backing the manager. Do they really have an option?

This will be their standard response:

Press: So what do you think about Rafa.
Player: He is a really good manager and we should all take the blame etc. etc. etc.

Can you really imagine them saying:
"Rafa is crap. I am sick of playing for him. They should fire him"

Not only will they be in major trouble from the club (see Riera for farmilder comments), they may never be able to play for him again if he is still here. They will also be flamed by the "Rafa stay" supporters.

If they say "No comment" then that will drive the press to the above response automatically.

Its really what they say in private that matters and unfortunately we will never really know. I really cant see them be happy playing for a manager that keeps them in shackles (Remember Gerrard's comment last season: "The shackles are off"). Being told what to do, when to do it and where to go etc. I would never be happy with that at work, I cant see why they would be happy with that. It's like taking an artist and telling him to photocopy inferior stuff instead of drawing original stuff. Ridiculous in the extreme.

I just fail to see the benefit of keeping him.

- The fanbase is split down the middle
- His football style is atrocious (except for a 6 week period in 6 years)
- He falls out with everyone
- His transfers are hit and miss
- His substitutions are predetermined
- He refuses to take any responsibility and blames anything and everything
- He has an ego the size of Jupiter
- Opposition fans want him to stay. There is even a KRAP campaign (A Keep Rafa at Pool)

I really fail to see where the positives are?

The only way to unite the fans will be to get a new man but that isnt going to happen because he loves the club so much that he has to paid 16 million pounds withing 24 hours in order to leave the club.

[AMG133]

The State of Liverpool FC – An Idiots Guide ...

Posted by B_H_B on RAOTL

The State of Liverpool FC – An Idiots Guide

While "senior sources" at the club (Christan Purslow) try to facilitate a smear campaign against the manager, pretend everything is rosy at the club and briefs the press to headline the Rick Parry pay off on the day the club's financials are tactically released on election results day; here's what's really going on at Liverpool Football Club:


The figures released on Friday 8th May 2010 indicate that Liverpool FC is in net debt to the tune of £351m; an increase of £52m from last year’s figure.

A total of £233.996m is owed to RBS, in addition to an inter-company loan of £144.441m owed to “Kop Cayman”; a company owned by Gillett and Hicks based in the Cayman Island for tax reasons; a company that have loaned Liverpool FC £144.441m at an interest rate of 10%. This is the “own money” that Gillett and Hicks claim to have put into the club. In reality, they’re just charging the club 10% interest for lending that money through an offshore limited liability company that they aren’t even personally liable for – Liverpool FC are.

Liverpool FC are not paying the interest off on that £144.4m however. It is being charged as a “compound interest”, meaning the interest isn’t paid, but is instead “rolled up” to the grand total. For example, this year (if I’ve got this right):

£144.4m @ 10% interest = £14.44m payable this year.

Instead of paying that £14.44m, it is rolled onto the total making the outstanding debt owed to Kop Cayman £158.88m. The following year this is then charged at a further 10% interest:

£158.88m @ 10% interest = £15.88m payable next year.

Instead of paying that £15.88m, it is rolled onto the total making the outstanding debt owed to Kop Cayman £174.76m. The following year this is then charged at a further 10% interest:

£174.76m @ 10% interest = £17.76m payable next year.

Instead of paying that £17.76m, it is rolled onto the total making the outstanding debt owed to Kop Cayman £192.52m etc etc etc...

The debt soon spirals out of control, as you can see; and don’t forget, this only concerns the £144.4m owed to Gillett and Hick’s Cayman Islands company – it doesn’t concern the huge £234m owed to RBS.

The financial figures released last week are for the 2008/09 season.

Those figures declare the club made a loss of around £52m for that year, due to the interest repayments on the loans and another £22m spent on the new ground; on what that was spent on we have no idea. There’s nothing to show for it anyway – and the total spend on the new ground now exceeds £50m. To put that into perspective – Sunderland managed to build the 48,000 seat Stadium of Light for a lot less than that. We have a few fences up at the back of the Anfield Road End!

Anyway – we made a loss of £52m that year despite finishing 2nd in the league and reaching the latter stages of the Champions League. The accounts also declared a profit made on player transfers (despite Purslow telling us we don’t need to sell players to balance the books and service debt, and Rafa being accused of wasting millions on players – the accounts prove otherwise).

What are next year’s figures (which will reflect the financial state we’re in today) going to look like with a 7th place league finish and an early elimination from the Champions League? We will also have an increased debt to service as explained above.

Then what about the figures for the next financial year when there’s no Champions League money at all coming in?

While the current owners are in place, we are going to continue to fall further and further into debt. We cannot meet the repayments on the loan as it stands now, and with our revenue due to fall with the lack of Champions League football, we’re on the brink of going into administration.

Anyone with hopes of making any signings in the summer or any future transfer windows needs a reality check. We are going to be very lucky to be hold onto the players we’ve got, never mind being able to bring anybody else in.

Gerrard and Torres don’t want to leave because they don’t like the manager (Purslow is feeding this story to the media to whip up the “Rafa Out campaign”); they want to leave as they know there is zero chance of any new players of any quality arriving at the club in its current state. They also know there’s zero chance of any top class manager coming to the club if Benitez decides to walk or is pushed; no manager worth his salt would come to work at the club under these conditions. They know the club is only going one way.

Until Gillett and Hicks are removed from the club, we’re only going to decline. It really is as simple as that. Nothing else matters.

And remember – these debts haven’t been accumulated through overspending in trying to buy success and compete like was the case at Portsmouth, Leeds and various other clubs – they are entirely generated through debt loaded onto the club just so Gillett and Hicks can own us and bleed us dry with expense claims, management fees, arrangement fees for every refinance deal and wasting over £50m of the club’s money on a non-existent new stadium.

This isn’t the result of bad individual club management as Richard Scudamore of The Premier League claims; it is the result of a leveraged buyout that has loaded the cost of buying the club onto the club to repay. Something The Premier League, The FA, UEFA and FIFA should be doing everything in their power to prevent ever happening again.


2007: £44m debt (£3m per year to service)
2008: £350m debt (£36.5m per year to service)
2009: £378m debt (£40m per year to service)
2010:

Those are the levels of debt on the club, with it being only £44m before Gillett and Hicks bought the club. Therefore the club’s profits were able to be invested back into the squad, allowing us to compete on the pitch. We’re now crippled by debts we cannot service, when that £40m leaving the club each year in interest repayments should be being spent on new players.

£76.5m has left the club in interest repayments alone in the past 2 years – and in that time – the manager has not spent a single penny on new players. It’s been a sell to buy policy, with profits being made on transfers in the past few transfer windows as the books needed to be balanced; all while the clubs around us are spending to strengthen. How can we be expected to compete under those conditions?

The debt is growing with every passing day. As a result of the lack of investment in the squad (as well as bad luck with injuries / poor decisions / players out of form etc), we’re paying the price on the field with declining performances which will therefore reduce the club’s revenue even further – giving us even less money to service increasing debts. A vicious circle. It’s unsustainable.

Liverpool FC is paying £110,000 every single day in interest repayments to service a debt we should never have in the first place. That’s £110,000 a day of the club’s money that me and you generate, that we should be seeing spent on new players or developing the club; instead – we are standing back and watching the club being raped in front of our very eyes.

[Alan]

Pepe Reina won the EPL golden glove. (Sharing it with Petr Cech though). Both kept 17 clean sheets this season.

Finished 7th but still gets the golden glove. No Rafa isn't a defensive coach


All those 0-0 results against teams like Hull do pay off after all :erm:


Strange, I saw an interview with Kenny a while back saying that we would have loved to manage LFC again. Maybe he changed his mind? Quite a few impeccable sources say he would love to manage in the interim but doesnt want a permanent contract. There have also been some rumours from not so impeccable sources that he and Rafa have fallen out as well. Its just a rumour but I wouldn't be surprised. Is there anyone that Rafa hasn't fallen out with?

Also, about players coming out backing the manager. Do they really have an option?

This will be their standard response:

Press: So what do you think about Rafa.
Player: He is a really good manager and we should all take the blame etc. etc. etc.

Can you really imagine them saying:
"Rafa is crap. I am sick of playing for him. They should fire him"

Not only will they be in major trouble from the club (see Riera for farmilder comments), they may never be able to play for him again if he is still here. They will also be flamed by the "Rafa stay" supporters.

If they say "No comment" then that will drive the press to the above response automatically.

Its really what they say in private that matters and unfortunately we will never really know. I really cant see them be happy playing for a manager that keeps them in shackles (Remember Gerrard's comment last season: "The shackles are off"). Being told what to do, when to do it and where to go etc. I would never be happy with that at work, I cant see why they would be happy with that. It's like taking an artist and telling him to photocopy inferior stuff instead of drawing original stuff. Ridiculous in the extreme.

I just fail to see the benefit of keeping him.

- The fanbase is split down the middle
- His football style is atrocious (except for a 6 week period in 6 years)
- He falls out with everyone
- His transfers are hit and miss
- His substitutions are predetermined
- He refuses to take any responsibility and blames anything and everything
- He has an ego the size of Jupiter
- Opposition fans want him to stay. There is even a KRAP campaign (A Keep Rafa at Pool)

I really fail to see where the positives are?

The only way to unite the fans will be to get a new man but that isnt going to happen because he loves the club so much that he has to paid 16 million pounds withing 24 hours in order to leave the club.

Excellent points.

One wonders what the Rafa cultists would deem unacceptable. Clearly finishing 7 not even challenging for a CL place is okay. Perhaps only relegation?

[poolmania]

Finished 7th but still gets the golden glove. No Rafa isn't a defensive coach


All those 0-0 results against teams like Hull do pay off after all :erm:



Excellent points.

One wonders what the Rafa cultists would deem unacceptable. Clearly finishing 7 not even challenging for a CL place is okay. Perhaps only relegation?

Unacceptable in my opinion but that does not mean we can't keep Rafa and still contend for the title next year or the year after. He's proven he can get us near the heights of winning it. Sometimes a bit more patience is needed rather than starting afresh. since the 80's, we've had managers for a period of 6 years or less. Maybe it's time to give one of them more than 6 years. Rafa is certainly someone I feel if given more time and support can deliver more trophies including the premiership. I might turn out to be wrong but I feel we need to give him the chance else we will never know.

The worry I have is who can come in and handle the nonsense that's going on in our club at the moment.

[Randhir]

Unacceptable in my opinion but that does not mean we can't keep Rafa and still contend for the title next year or the year after.

:confused: How is that unacceptable then?

[poolmania]

:confused: How is that unacceptable then?

I can't accept that we had such a poor season and finished 7th. Make sense.

[fishfly]

I can't accept that we had such a poor season and finished 7th. Make sense.

Blame HICKS! :D

[poolmania]

Blame HICKS! :D

No doubt. Goerge too.

[fishfly]

No doubt. Goerge too.

And Gerrard and Torres for under performing this season!

[superskully]

News is Rafa has put up Aquilani (15 mil), Babel (10mil), Ngog (10mil) and el Zhar (?? - 10 pounds maybe) for sale.
I laught at the Ngog price tag.
But why Aquilani, felt he was the best player in our last few games. He is a talent - the next Gerrard (i think we have seen the last of him unless we get new owners - like ***a did for Milan, Gerrard may have to go to save the club).

[Casanova]

News is Rafa has put up Aquilani (15 mil), Babel (10mil), Ngog (10mil) and el Zhar (?? - 10 pounds maybe) for sale.
I laught at the Ngog price tag.
But why Aquilani, felt he was the best player in our last few games. He is a talent - the next Gerrard (i think we have seen the last of him unless we get new owners - like ***a did for Milan, Gerrard may have to go to save the club).

Source ?

[akescpt]

aqauman for sale? how vasin!

[superskully]

Source ?

www.liverpoolfc.tv

[Nimz]

www.liverpoolfc.tv

I don't see anything about it.....

[Nimz]

Here is the proper link

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/media-watch/reds-seek-to-raise-35m-from-sales

[akescpt]

Here is the proper link

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/media-watch/reds-seek-to-raise-35m-from-sales

what a buncha tools the liverpool decision makers are..

[Casanova]

www.liverpoolfc.tv

I actually do not belive that he will sell Aquilani.

[superskully]

Here is the proper link

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/media-watch/reds-seek-to-raise-35m-from-sales

My bad. It was under transfer gossip.

[superskully]

I actually do not belive that he will sell Aquilani.

Even if he does not, i dont think Aquaman would like that he has been put up for sale (remember the Alonso story).

[Casanova]

My bad. It was under transfer gossip.

I think thats exactly what it is.
Rumors FTL :mad:

[superskully]

I look for news everyday that someone has bought the club. Cos whether rafa goes or not, its the american scum that need to go.
As was mentioned earlier in this forum, tclub is in debt of 350mil, 150 of which is to a company the americans own, and each year out interest payments go up.
Yet the scum want to sell at 800 mil - i have really started to hate americans - greedy ba$teds who dont care about the club. Its all downhill from here if they dont sell.

[AMG133]

You say how can I support Rafa when we finished 7th, had the worst season in history, havent won the EPL, & so on & so on. I have see improvement in the team since he arrived, granted this season was a huge fall from what we've built but if some one that did so much right to be written off for 1 wrong is kinda ridiculous

nice little blog post

Why I'm sick of being a LIVERPOOL FC fan

I NEVER thought I'd write this, but I'm sick of being a Liverpool fan.

Not sick of Liverpool FC: I still find myself staring at my ticket stubs or thumbing through an old programme and enjoying the fond memories of Istanbul, Dortmund, Cardiff, Barcelona; my first derby win or even my first game, a less than glamourous Rumbelows Cup win over Crewe.

I still feel the emotions rise when I watch the DVD of that night in the Ataturk and I still get riled when faced with a crowing Manc (although there's not too many of them about right now).

So as I say, I still love the club.

But the being a fan bit? Well I'm sick of the soap opera, peeved with the politics and right now the whole thing has left me feeling a bit worn out and fatigued; my passion has been sapped.

Months ago, I glanced at the fixture list and I'd mentally pencilled in the Hull game as a trip I'd be making.

End of season, day in the sun, couple of bevvies, a laugh, and hopefully a comprehensive victory for the Mighty Reds.

That's how it went in my head anyway.

But who was I kidding? I keep making that mistake – thinking football is still the way it used to be. It's not – not at Liverpool anyway.

The Liverpool I know had its heart ripped from it and thrown in the Mersey long ago. Now it's all about being pro-Rafa or anti-Rafa. About belonging to one forum but hating another. About blaming the owners for ruining our club or claiming it's an excuse. About believing the Rafa stories, the Gerrard stories or the Purslow stories – or not believing them.

All in all it's a whole lot of in-fighting and that has punched my enthusiasm in the solar plexus and left it rolling on the floor and gasping for air.

So I didn't go to the Hull match – didn't even try to get a ticket, and after briefly toying with the idea of tracking down an ale house screening it 'on the foreign', I settled for listening to Aldo and co on Radio City.

The match, well you know the score, depressingly familiar – Aldo sounded like he'd had enough, too.

It just washed over me, I was barely arsed. In fact, the most excited I got was when Chelsea went 2-0 up and I knew the Mancs wouldn't be lifting number 19. How sad is that?

So that was that and it was back to the politics. Rafa Benitez referring to "senior sources" on several occasions in his press conference, a clear reference to the planting of information in the media by those "senior sources". The same senior sources that took it upon themselves to talk about players with other clubs without the manager's knowledge.

That was like throwing a piece of meat to the hungry hounds – off we went again: the manager is out of order, Purslow is out of order, Rafa rubbed his hands together once (that really is a rumour going around, well part of it anyway), Gerrard doesn't care, Madrid want him, he's definitely going, it's Lucas's fault...and on and on and on until your left rocking yourself in the darkness, mumbling and praying for mercy.

The thing is, if anyone is rubbing their hands together and thinking about money, it's Tom Hicks and George Gillett. Because while we slug it out amongst ourselves – falling out on forums, arguing in boozers, even scrapping at the match – they continue to rape and pillage our club relatively – in terms of our worldwide (or even match-going) support – unchallenged.

The debt is mounting up, the loan from the off-shore company to the club is growing – and what are the majority of our support doing about it? Nothing.

Yes, there's Spirit of Shankly – they've done a sterling job. They have sent out the message that Liverpool fans will not just roll over and have their belly tickled by the carpet-bagging American pair.

But their ranks contain approximately 5,000 members – a fraction of the people who attend Anfield regularly and a mere spec on the radar when global support for Liverpool is totted up.

So why are so many doing so little? Are they burying their head in the sand? Can they not concentrate long enough to get their head around what Hicks and Gillett are doing to the club? Or are they just buying the spin and waiting for Sky Sports to tell them about it?

There's so many messages flying around the world about Liverpool FC that perhaps they are just not hearing the right one – the one that says Hicks and Gillett are ruining our club, dragging it down from its perch with barely a kick or a scream and pointing it in the direction of the road Leeds and Newcastle took after financial mismanagement – the road to nowhere.

It's a road the club is on now, despite what new chairman Martin Broughton tells us. Something will happen in months, people are interested, he says. Exactly what managing director Christian Purslow told us when he arrived.

We've gained another suit, but as a club we're still shivering in the cold, stark naked, looking in at the Premier League and Champions League parties knowing we've got no chance of an invite.

Meanwhile, the banks have extended deadlines, the interest – at £110,000 A DAY – continues to mount and Hicks and Gillett sit thousands of miles away, sitting and waiting for the buyer that never comes.

But for some all that doesn't matter. They want Benitez out and Jose Mourinho in. It doesn't matter if we haven't got money, he's got to go and Jose? Well, he'll happily kiss goodbye to Inter Milan, ignore a possible offer from Real Madrid and walk into a club on its knees who will pay him less than he can get elsewhere. It would be career suicide. It makes no sense at all. But still people say it.

That kind of debate suits the Americans just fine. It's another distraction and another step away from what would really get them thinking – mass, organised protest. Boycotts. Pressure. More of the same from Spirit of Shankly only with more bodies behind them, more money in the coffers, more helping hands to get the wheels turning.

But for many of the tactics that would truly make them sit up and notice to work it needs the whole of the Liverpool support on board – and as it stands that support is so factious, that doesn't look like happening anytime soon.

Hicks and Gillett can turn to their PR firms (or those "senior sources") to keep the pot bubbling with distractions about players, managers and rubbing hands. It's divide and conquer - the oldest trick in the book. And it's working a treat.

But who needs PR firms when you've got rumours (a speciality of the City of Liverpool), forum 'insiders' and journalists happy to be spoon-fed information and reproduce it as 'fact' without questioning its validity?

It all keeps fans from coming together and fighting the cancer that is eating away at our loved one. And that's exactly what the profit-obsessed charlatans want.

http://robbohuyton.blogspot.com/2010...ol-fc-fan.html

[superskully]

I was a bit emotional when i became a rafa hater, but as AMG133 explained, he is not the problem, or atleast not the worst of it.
Rafa has had 78mill to spend over 6 years, an average of 13.
Now if he were to sell Gerrard and Torres at say 80mil, spend 20 of that...
In addition, his net spend over the last 2 years have been negative.

So get these damn Americans out.

2004/05:
IN: £2m Josemi; £1.5m Nunez; £10.7m Alonso; £6m Luis Garcia; £6.3m Morientes; £1m Carson; Free Pelligrino. Total: £27.5m.
OUT: £2.5m Murphy; £8.5m Owen; Free Babbel, Henchoz. Total: £11m.
NET SPEND: £16.5m.
WON: Champions League.
PREMIER LEAGUE: 5th

-----------------------------


2005/06:
IN: £240,000 Barragan; £6m Reina; £5.6m Sissoko; £7m Crouch; £150,000 Hobbs; £190,000 Idriza; £1.5m Gonzalez; £5.8m Agger; £250,000 Martin; Free Zenden, Fowler; Exchange Anderson for Welsh, Kromkamp for Josemi; Unknown Miki Roque. Total: £26.73m.
OUT: £3.5m Diouf; £2m Alou Diarra; £2m Nunez; £6.5m Baros; Free Smicer, Pellegrino; Exchange Welsh for Anderson, Josemi for Kromkamp. Total: £14m.
NET SPEND: £12.73m.
WON: FA Cup
PREMIER LEAGUE: 3rd

-----------------------------

2006/07:
IN: £6m Bellamy; £2m Palletta; £6.7m Pennant; £9m Kuyt; £200,000 El Zhar; £750,000 Ajdarevic; £2.5m Arbeloa; Free Fabio Aurelio; Loan Mascherano, Padelli; Undisclosed Brouwer. Total: £27.15m.
OUT: £200,000 Whitbread; £3m Morientes; £675,000 Barragan; £2m Traore; £500,000 Mellor; £1.75m Kromkamp; £525,000 Potter; £1.5m Warnock; Free Hamann, Diao; Undisclosed Cheyrou. Total: £10.15m.
NET SPEND: £17m.
PREMIER LEAGUE: 3rd and reached Champions League final.

-----------------------------

2007/08:
IN: £5m Lucas; £270,000 Jose Dominguez; £1.8m Leto; £20.2m Torres; £5m Benayoun; £11.5m Babel; £1.3m Insua; £6.5m Skrtel; £18.6m Mascherano; Free Voronin; Undisclosed Nemeth, Itandje. Total: £70.7m.
OUT: £2.7m Sinama-Pongolle; £100,000 O’Donnell; £4m Luis Garcia; £6m Cisse; £7.5m Bellamy; £3.5m Gonzalez; £1.2m Palletta; £3.5m Kirkland; £8.2m Sissoko; Free Dudek, Fowler. Total: £36.7m.
NET SPEND: £34m.
PREMIER LEAGUE: 4th

-----------------------------

2008/09:
IN: £7m Dossena; £3.5m Cavalieri; £1.5m N’gog; £19m Keane; £8m Riera; Free Degen. Total: £39m.
OUT: £4m Riise; £11m Crouch; £2.25m Guthrie; £3.25m Carson; £16m Keane; Free Kewell; Undisclosed Le Tallec, Finnan, Hobbs. Total: £36.5m.
NET SPEND: £2.5m.
PREMIER LEAGUE: 2nd

-----------------------------

2009/10:
IN: £17.5m Johnson; £17.1m Aquilani; £2m Kyrgiakos; £160,000 Ayala; £1.5m Maxi Rodriguez. Total: £38.26m.
OUT: £250,000 Anderson; £3m Leto; £3.5m Arbeloa; £30m Alonso; £4.4m Dossena; £1.5m Voronin; Free Pennant, Miki Roque. Total: £42.65m.
NET SPEND: -£4.39m.

-----------------------------

TOTAL BOUGHT: £229,340,000
TOTAL SOLD: £151,000,000.
TOTAL NET SPEND: £78,340,000.
_________________________________
_________________________________
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/7675751/Rafael-Benitezs-transfer-dealings-during-his-six-year-reign-at-Liverpool.html

[fishfly]

I was a bit emotional when i became a rafa hater, but as AMG133 explained, he is not the problem, or atleast not the worst of it.
Rafa has had 78mill to spend over 6 years, an average of 13.
Now if he were to sell Gerrard and Torres at say 80mil, spend 20 of that...
In addition, his net spend over the last 2 years have been negative.

So get these damn Americans out.

2004/05:
IN: £2m Josemi; £1.5m Nunez; £10.7m Alonso; £6m Luis Garcia; £6.3m Morientes; £1m Carson; Free Pelligrino. Total: £27.5m.
OUT: £2.5m Murphy; £8.5m Owen; Free Babbel, Henchoz. Total: £11m.
NET SPEND: £16.5m.
WON: Champions League.
PREMIER LEAGUE: 5th

-----------------------------


2005/06:
IN: £240,000 Barragan; £6m Reina; £5.6m Sissoko; £7m Crouch; £150,000 Hobbs; £190,000 Idriza; £1.5m Gonzalez; £5.8m Agger; £250,000 Martin; Free Zenden, Fowler; Exchange Anderson for Welsh, Kromkamp for Josemi; Unknown Miki Roque. Total: £26.73m.
OUT: £3.5m Diouf; £2m Alou Diarra; £2m Nunez; £6.5m Baros; Free Smicer, Pellegrino; Exchange Welsh for Anderson, Josemi for Kromkamp. Total: £14m.
NET SPEND: £12.73m.
WON: FA Cup
PREMIER LEAGUE: 3rd

-----------------------------

2006/07:
IN: £6m Bellamy; £2m Palletta; £6.7m Pennant; £9m Kuyt; £200,000 El Zhar; £750,000 Ajdarevic; £2.5m Arbeloa; Free Fabio Aurelio; Loan Mascherano, Padelli; Undisclosed Brouwer. Total: £27.15m.
OUT: £200,000 Whitbread; £3m Morientes; £675,000 Barragan; £2m Traore; £500,000 Mellor; £1.75m Kromkamp; £525,000 Potter; £1.5m Warnock; Free Hamann, Diao; Undisclosed Cheyrou. Total: £10.15m.
NET SPEND: £17m.
PREMIER LEAGUE: 3rd and reached Champions League final.

-----------------------------

2007/08:
IN: £5m Lucas; £270,000 Jose Dominguez; £1.8m Leto; £20.2m Torres; £5m Benayoun; £11.5m Babel; £1.3m Insua; £6.5m Skrtel; £18.6m Mascherano; Free Voronin; Undisclosed Nemeth, Itandje. Total: £70.7m.
OUT: £2.7m Sinama-Pongolle; £100,000 O’Donnell; £4m Luis Garcia; £6m Cisse; £7.5m Bellamy; £3.5m Gonzalez; £1.2m Palletta; £3.5m Kirkland; £8.2m Sissoko; Free Dudek, Fowler. Total: £36.7m.
NET SPEND: £34m.
PREMIER LEAGUE: 4th

-----------------------------

2008/09:
IN: £7m Dossena; £3.5m Cavalieri; £1.5m N’gog; £19m Keane; £8m Riera; Free Degen. Total: £39m.
OUT: £4m Riise; £11m Crouch; £2.25m Guthrie; £3.25m Carson; £16m Keane; Free Kewell; Undisclosed Le Tallec, Finnan, Hobbs. Total: £36.5m.
NET SPEND: £2.5m.
PREMIER LEAGUE: 2nd

-----------------------------

2009/10:
IN: £17.5m Johnson; £17.1m Aquilani; £2m Kyrgiakos; £160,000 Ayala; £1.5m Maxi Rodriguez. Total: £38.26m.
OUT: £250,000 Anderson; £3m Leto; £3.5m Arbeloa; £30m Alonso; £4.4m Dossena; £1.5m Voronin; Free Pennant, Miki Roque. Total: £42.65m.
NET SPEND: -£4.39m.

-----------------------------

TOTAL BOUGHT: £229,340,000
TOTAL SOLD: £151,000,000.
TOTAL NET SPEND: £78,340,000.
_________________________________
_________________________________
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/7675751/Rafael-Benitezs-transfer-dealings-during-his-six-year-reign-at-Liverpool.html

I think you sohuld be blaming @ rafa's inability to produce any quality players from the signing he's done... Arbeloa is doing well at RM why? Pennant had talent, Babel has talent, Benayoun has an eye for goal, Dossena was doing well Keane could have been a great addition, Couch is doing fine at Tottenham, blah blah blah.... need I say more?

[akescpt]

first order of business: AMERICANS OUT!!! if we dont get our affairs in order it could be disastrous. u think 7th is bad? liverpool is being dragged through the mud. damn u david moores and risk parry. b@stards!

[ALFAHOLIC]

Aweh ouens...I"ve come over the heartache and I'm fuly behind our coach...stop looking at the issues and start looking at the successes...

here's, possibly, our newest addition, if llike me, you too love watching La Liga on Saturday nights...you'll have seen this 21 year old in action...I'm excited again!

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/b47s0

[ALFAHOLIC]

OH, guys, can we assume now that, since Arbeloa and Alonso's departure...it has hurt us tramendously, and with Torres out almost the entire season..this too contributed to this! What we need is a partnering striker...Villa ftw!

[nivek]

I think you sohuld be blaming @ rafa's inability to produce any quality players from the signing he's done... Arbeloa is doing well at RM why? Pennant had talent, Babel has talent, Benayoun has an eye for goal, Dossena was doing well Keane could have been a great addition, Couch is doing fine at Tottenham, blah blah blah.... need I say more?

lol
think most pool fans on here are just blinded by all the pro rafa warm and fuzzy blogs

as rivals its nice to watch :D

[ALFAHOLIC]

I think you sohuld be blaming @ rafa's inability to produce any quality players from the signing he's done... Arbeloa is doing well at RM why? Pennant had talent, Babel has talent, Benayoun has an eye for goal, Dossena was doing well Keane could have been a great addition, Couch is doing fine at Tottenham, blah blah blah.... need I say more?

OMW! What are you talking about? He made all those players quality! I think you posed your sentence wrong...what you should have said was Rafa's inability to play his great developments regularly...

[nivek]

OMW! What are you talking about? He made all those players quality! I think you posed your sentence wrong...what you should have said was Rafa's inability to play his great developments regularly...

HAHAHAHAHA :D lay off the tik dude

[superskully]

I think you sohuld be blaming @ rafa's inability to produce any quality players from the signing he's done... Arbeloa is doing well at RM why? Pennant had talent, Babel has talent, Benayoun has an eye for goal, Dossena was doing well Keane could have been a great addition, Couch is doing fine at Tottenham, blah blah blah.... need I say more?

Not defending Rafa here, but my point is everyone is Pro and Anti Rafa while we not looking at the biggest problem - the owners. The club is going downhill unless we get new owners.
Some very very ambitious fans think we should get rid of Rafa and get Mourinho - really now.
To answer yr questions:
Arebloa did well with us, dont know why we sold him - maybe cos rafa wanted English.
Penant had no talent - was a big choker - and is not doing well in Spain.
Babel - mixed, got talent but also lazy - Rafa should do better with him.
Bennie - dont know y Rafa wants to sell him
Dossena - no pace
Keane - Parry bought him w/o Rafa's consent - defn not worth 20 mill.
Crouch - wanted to go cos Torres came in.
U can look at UTD's, Chelsea's spending - think of the Veron's, Schev, Crespo, Berba, Anderson, Hargreaves...
Even Arsenal paid more for Ashravin than we paid for Torres.
I have no issue with Rafa's signings, he has had not much to work with. I have a problem with his atitude and decisions (he like Biff in cricket - very weird decisions).

[millennia]

OMW! What are you talking about? He made all those players quality! I think you posed your sentence wrong...what you should have said was Rafa's inability to play his great developments regularly...
Holy crap, what are you smoking?

Rafa has single handedly killed off a couple of players careers by sticking in stupid positions.

Quite frankly, i'm appalled at how average Rafa has managed to make the team. Nobody has any heart anymore, it's all about the money now. Gerrard doesn't even throw himself around anymore. I'd be more than happy to see the back of him.

As for the development, what has Rafa brought through Melwood's training academy?

Oh, and hey there fishy :P

[poolmania]

I think you sohuld be blaming @ rafa's inability to produce any quality players from the signing he's done... Arbeloa is doing well at RM why? Pennant had talent, Babel has talent, Benayoun has an eye for goal, Dossena was doing well Keane could have been a great addition, Couch is doing fine at Tottenham, blah blah blah.... need I say more?

Oh fishy fishy fishy, you stirrer you.

Arbeloa was doing well at Liverpool as well. He wanted to leave for Spain.
Why didn't Pennant stay at Arsenal?
Babel is his own worst enemy.
Dossena couldn't defend to save his life and it was well documented that he didn't enjoy it in England
There is no problem with Yossi, happy with the way he is used and it is very effective. One thing about Yossi is that he cannot play a few games in a row as he gets tired easily and this is seen in some of his poor displays after some excellent displays. Rafa therefore uses him to get the best out of him.
Keane my arse.
Crouch was doing well at Liverpool. He left because he wanted regular first team action. At Spurs he has a 0.21 goal per game average. At Liverpool he had a 0.26 goal per game average.

No, you need not say more.

[nivek]

Even Arsenal paid more for Ashravin than we paid for Torres.
I have no issue with Rafa's signings, he has had not much to work with. I have a problem with his atitude and decisions (he like Biff in cricket - very weird decisions).

Pool paid 25m + Garcia for Torres,
Arsenal paid 15m for Arshavin

[superskully]

Pool paid 25m + Garcia for Torres,
Arsenal paid 15m for Arshavin
Did not they pay over 20mil for Ashravin. Or am i quoting Euros and not pounds.

[nivek]

Did not they pay over 20mil for Ashravin. Or am i quoting Euros and not pounds.

15m pounds for arshavin, and 25m + garcia for torres, im not saying torres was a bad deal at all though, it was actually brilliant, im just correcting what you said about arsenal paying more for arsh than pool paid for torres

[superskully]

Holy crap, what are you smoking?

Rafa has single handedly killed off a couple of players careers by sticking in stupid positions.

Quite frankly, i'm appalled at how average Rafa has managed to make the team. Nobody has any heart anymore, it's all about the money now. Gerrard doesn't even throw himself around anymore. I'd be more than happy to see the back of him.

As for the development, what has Rafa brought through Melwood's training academy?

Oh, and hey there fishy :P

Guy, i will be happy to see my boot in the back of you.
You ain't no LFC supporter if u want Gerrard out.
He has carried lFC for so many years.
Even this year it is considered a bad season for him - but yet he created the most assists and was 2nd top scorer behidn Torres. Its just by his standards bad.
Even if he goes, i would not blame him. He is getting old wand wants trophies.

[superskully]

15m pounds for arshavin, and 25m + garcia for torres, im not saying torres was a bad deal at all though, it was actually brilliant, im just correcting what you said about arsenal paying more for arsh than pool paid for torres

Yep, u right. 16mill.

Back to youth academy.
Firstly, I beleive that Rafa has done extremely well here. He only took charge last year, yet the youth squad is doin extremely well with many promising youngsters. There is talk we may have the best youth squad - though not sure how true it is. We also have Rodoelfo Borrello (spelling?) who was the under-18 coach at Barca (coached Messi, Fabregas, Pique...).
So Rafa has done right here.
In terms of development when they reach Rafa - i have not seen proof as yet of rafa's abilities with youth. He does not have a good track record.
Secondly, becos we were playing at the highest level (i used 'were'), its difficult to play youngsters. Which is why not much youth gets developed at the big clubs.
Even Messi took 2 years in 1st team before he became what he is now and he is such a special player.

[millennia]

Guy, i will be happy to see my boot in the back of you.
Sounds about right, have to sneak up from behind?


You ain't no LFC supporter if u want Gerrard out.
Please, one player is not bigger than the team. I want commitment, it's as simple as that. Hardly anybody has shown it this season. The backroom politics has affected all of them.

[nivek]

Yep, u right. 16mill.

Back to youth academy.
Firstly, I beleive that Rafa has done extremely well here. He only took charge last year, yet the youth squad is doin extremely well with many promising youngsters. There is talk we may have the best youth squad - though not sure how true it is. We also have Rodoelfo Borrello (spelling?) who was the under-18 coach at Barca (coached Messi, Fabregas, Pique...).
So Rafa has done right here.
In terms of development when they reach Rafa - i have not seen proof as yet of rafa's abilities with youth. He does not have a good track record.
Secondly, becos we were playing at the highest level (i used 'were'), its difficult to play youngsters. Which is why not much youth gets developed at the big clubs.
Even Messi took 2 years in 1st team before he became what he is now and he is such a special player.

I'm not so sure about having the best youth squad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Academy_League_2009%E2%80%9310

You guys did better the year before though, coming 4th in your group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Academy_League_2008%E2%80%9309

[superskully]

I'm not so sure about having the best youth squad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Academy_League_2009%E2%80%9310

You guys did better the year before though, coming 4th in your group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Academy_League_2008%E2%80%9309

Ye u right.
I watched a game when Rodoelfo arrived against Leicester. They were thrashed (LFC that is) due to the strength and power of Leicester.
But recently the team has been performing well, quite a long unbeaten streak.
But again, its opinion

[superskully]

Sounds about right, have to sneak up from behind?
Sorry dude for being harsh, a bit emotional we lfc fans are.

Please, one player is not bigger than the team. I want commitment, it's as simple as that. Hardly anybody has shown it this season. The backroom politics has affected all of them.
As you say, politics - which is y we need them out.
In Gerrards case, he is the team or atleast the catalyst. If you watched all the games over the years and seen what he has done, after one average season, you wouldn't want him out.
Sure we have beat big teams w/o him, there are exceptions, but also those good performances was due to Alonso.

[millennia]

Sorry dude for being harsh, a bit emotional we lfc fans are.
Honestly, over the 20 odd years i've supported them i've come to accept that LFC is no longer what it should be. Hasn't been for a very long time.


In Gerrards case, he is the team or atleast the catalyst. If you watched all the games over the years and seen what he has done, after one average season, you wouldn't want him out.
If? lol!

Yes, i've seen him over the years. You know, ppl do hit sell by dates too? I'd give him 2 more seasons with worthwhile performances. That's the reason it's time to offload him.

[Alan]

I can't take this anymore. I'm sorry the sheer stupidity evident in this thread is a perfect example why Liverpool have become a laughing stock. I've now got a taste of how a Newcastle or Leeds supporter must feel.

If you think this club has been so under funded and the squad so injury ridden that the great Rafa Benitez can't compete with fscking Aston Villa, compete for 4th in the league and is only able to finish above a cash strapped, injury plagued Everton you must have an IQ of less than 70.

Rafa Benitez and his pathetic tactics, rubbish transfer purchases and appalling man management is the main reason why Liverpool finished 7th not funding or injuries. 99.9% of fans of other clubs can see that, so too the few remaining sane, rational Liverpool fans.

Enough is enough. If the man is not gone next season and his cult of raving lunatic worshipers silenced that's it. Still love club but I refuse to associate with this insanity.

Rafa out

[superskully]

I can't take this anymore. I'm sorry the sheer stupidity evident in this thread is a perfect example why Liverpool have become a laughing stock. I've now got a taste of how a Newcastle or Leeds supporter must feel.

If you think this club has been so under funded and the squad so injury ridden that the great Rafa Benitez can't compete with fscking Aston Villa, compete for 4th in the league and is only able to finish above a cash strapped, injury plagued Everton you must have an IQ of less than 70.

Rafa Benitez and his pathetic tactics, rubbish transfer purchases and appalling man management is the main reason why Liverpool finished 7th not funding or injuries. 99.9% of fans of other clubs can see that, so too the few remaining sane, rational Liverpool fans.

Enough is enough. If the man is not gone next season and his cult of raving lunatic worshipers silenced that's it. Still love club but I refuse to associate with this insanity.

Rafa out

This is the exact point i am trying to make. Everyone is Anti or pro Rafa and not Anti or Pro Americans.
The focus is so much on Rafa as someone to blame that the Americans are laughing.
Do you even realise that if we continue in the same way, we could be in Admin in a year 2, forget Newcastle and think Portsmouth.

Fact is also that many LFC players have stated that new owners are needed - do you beleive in these players that they will say something like that.
Yes, ideally, we would like some sugar daddy to come and buy us out, send rafa away, pay for new stadium and provide money for transfer. Thats like me winning the lotto.
Alan, you have shown great knowledge, and i agree rafa brought us to 7th, but that rant is over now and think about the future of LFC.

[Alan]

Nobody is pro the owners

They're not to blame for finishing 7th. They've supplied enough funding for the team to finish 4th. Let me remind you Tottenham had no wins in their first 8 games and were stone last at the start of last season now they've finished 7 points ahead us in 4th this season

They're not responsible for the fact that next season thanks to not qualifying for the CL the club is going to take a massive hit in earnings.

They're not responsible for the fact that quality players will be less inclined to join the club because of a lack of CL football

and lastly they are not responsible for the fact that we now are at risk of losing our 2 best players.

All that responsibility lies at the door of Rafa.

You can blame the owners for the lack of funding to challenge for the title, the massive debt that would plunge the club into crises if an incompetent buffoon failed to qualify the club for the CL and of course the stadium no show.

[superskully]

Nobody is pro the owners

They're not to blame for finishing 7th. They've supplied enough funding for the team to finish 4th. Let me remind you Tottenham had no wins in their first 8 games and were stone last at the start of last season now they've finished 7 points ahead us in 4th this season

Look at the stats, my post earlier, we did not spend anything in the last 2 seasons. Spurs gained money from Berba and Keane (Parry's deal) and did spend (Defoe, Crouch, Pav, Modric, the blackburn guy.. though dont know what the net spend is).


They're not responsible for the fact that next season thanks to not qualifying for the CL the club is going to take a massive hit in earnings.
They're not responsible for the fact that quality players will be less inclined to join the club because of a lack of CL football
and lastly they are not responsible for the fact that we now are at risk of losing our 2 best players.
All that responsibility lies at the door of Rafa.
Off field antics does have an effect on players. Atitude towards Rafa who took it to the field. In my opinion, both their fault.

I agree, Rafa should have easily finished 4th and he complains too much about money.

Also, LFC makes a profit (small one), but the interest is killing us. We were always on a downward spiral once the Americans took over.
So point is, Rafa is not goin anywhere, even with new owners, too much to get him out. Lets live with it, and hope we get new owners soon, and build a business model based on youth.
Arsenal, Barca and UTD (before the glazers) have proved this is the way forward. City and Chelsea are sitting ducks hoping their sugar daddy's will save them. Madrid are the same but beleive in their marketing.

[poolmania]

I can't take this anymore. I'm sorry the sheer stupidity evident in this thread is a perfect example why Liverpool have become a laughing stock. I've now got a taste of how a Newcastle or Leeds supporter must feel.


I stopped reading there. Laughing stock, Newcastle, Leeds. Get a grip Alan.

[Alan]

Look at the stats, my post earlier, we did not spend anything in the last 2 seasons. Spurs gained money from Berba and Keane (Parry's deal) and did spend (Defoe, Crouch, Pav, Modric, the blackburn guy.. though dont know what the net spend is).

So? Why not look at net spending over the last 5 years? Can't Rafa finish above Harry Redknapp, Martin O'Neil or David Moyes without being given vast sums of more money to spend than them? Some defense of Rafa that is :o

Also who was the dimwit who bought Keane and then sold him 6 months later at a loss? Tottenham lost a great player in Berbatov but they invested in quality players with the 30mill they got for him. Rafa on the other hand bought a bench warmer for the 30mill he got from the Alonso sale.

Rafa had 50 million pounds to strengthen his squad after sales this season. Are you seriously going to attribute partial responsibility to the owners for the purchase of a bench warmer and RB who can't defend. Compare that to what Harry bought with 50 million

Peter Crouch
Niko Kranjcar
Luka Modric
Jermain Defoe
Vedran Corluka

and yet you still deflect blame away from Rafa :o


I agree, Rafa should have easily finished 4th and he complains too much about money.

Then surely he must go. Since when is a manager who can't even finish 4th an acceptable candidate to manage LFC?


So point is, Rafa is not goin anywhere, even with new owners, too much to get him out. Lets live with it, and hope we get new owners soon, and build a business model based on youth.
Arsenal, Barca and UTD (before the glazers) have proved this is the way forward. City and Chelsea are sitting ducks hoping their sugar daddy's will save them. Madrid are the same but beleive in their marketing.

Some can't accept Liverpool as a middle table mediocrity club. That's the future if Rafa stays. As pointed out earlier Rafa can't compete with 2nd tier clubs like Tottenham, Everton and Aston Villa without a massive financial advantage how on earth do you expect him to beat the top clubs?

[fishfly]

Holy crap, what are you smoking?

Rafa has single handedly killed off a couple of players careers by sticking in stupid positions.

Quite frankly, i'm appalled at how average Rafa has managed to make the team. Nobody has any heart anymore, it's all about the money now. Gerrard doesn't even throw himself around anymore. I'd be more than happy to see the back of him.

As for the development, what has Rafa brought through Melwood's training academy?

Oh, and hey there fishy :P

Haai mil long time nice of you to join our heated debate - btw as a United supporter I's happy pooh is all the way down in 7th :D

[fishfly]

Guy, i will be happy to see my boot in the back of you.
You ain't no LFC supporter if u want Gerrard out.
He has carried lFC for so many years.
Even this year it is considered a bad season for him - but yet he created the most assists and was 2nd top scorer behidn Torres. Its just by his standards bad.
Even if he goes, i would not blame him. He is getting old wand wants trophies.

Rofl dude Millinenna is worse pooh supporter than Poolmania :D

[millennia]

btw as a United supporter I's happy pooh is all the way down in 7th
An i am happy that you lot didn't get another title :P


Millinenna
I see you still got those finger issues even after all these years! lol

[iceman23]

lol
think most pool fans on here are just blinded by all the pro rafa warm and fuzzy blogs

as rivals its nice to watch :D

As I said: It is the ANC effect. You know it isnt good but are still a blind follower. "Net spend" is Rafa's version of "Its apartheids fault". Anytime you underachieve just blame it on net spend.

There are still Liverpool fans who believe that Rafa Benitez is the best manager in the world. I kid you not.

Its quite telling that majority of rival fans want Benitez to stay at Liverpool.

Is there any other manager that could have guided us to 7th in the league. All Hail Senor Benitez.
"The Greatest Manager In The World (tm)" "Tactical genius (tm)".

[fishfly]

An i am happy that you lot didn't get another title :P


I see you still got those finger issues even after all these years! lol
Can't teach a old dog new tricks :D pity there's not drool icon here :(

[millennia]

pity there's not drool icon here
lolol, *flashback!*

[nivek]

http://bit.ly/beN6fO

[Randhir]

http://bit.ly/beN6fO

:confused:

[nivek]

:confused:
Might be a worrying read for a pool fan, one of Hicks' teams declaring bankrupcy

[Randhir]

Might be a worrying read for a pool fan, one of Hicks' teams declaring bankrupcy

Ooooooooohhh! Lol. I saw 'Rangers declaring' bankruptcy, so I thought you posted the wrong link.

[hawker]

Looks like aurelio is leaving.

[AMG133]

^^Yip they not renewing his contract. They offered him a "pay as you play" deal but he wanted something permanent. Seeing that he was injured most of the time Im sure the club got tired of paying him for sitting at home but when he did play he was fantastic.

In other news, happy Istanbul Day! hard to believe its been 5 years since that magical night.

[sh4rpz]

^^Yip they not renewing his contract. They offered him a "pay as you play" deal but he wanted something permanent. Seeing that he was injured most of the time Im sure the club got tired of paying him for sitting at home but when he did play he was fantastic.

In other news, happy Istanbul Day! hard to believe its been 5 years since that magical night.

dude, as a neutral who thought game over at 3-0, I totally k@k'd a brick for L'pool when the equaliser went in. Magic.

[hawker]

W00t! Happy Istanbul day :) I'll never ever ever forget that match for as long as I live.

I agree, I really liked Auerlio he was pretty solid, never had qualms with him playing.

[poolmania]

David Moores Letter to Tony Barret of the Times.


May 26, 2010

David Moores’s letter to The Times in full

Dear Tony,

Thanks for getting in touch again. I’m writing to you not out of any mission to clear my name - if I felt I had anything to apologise for I would have done so, without hesitation, a long, long time ago. I’m sending this to you, in good faith, because my family, particularly the younger members, are continually being wounded by the combination of hearsay, mistruth and malicious gossip regarding my decision to sell the club, and the process that led the sale.

I’m writing because it’s 5 years this week since the miracle of Istanbul - my greatest moment as a fan and as Chairman of Liverpool Football Club - but which now feels light years away from happening again. But above all I’m writing to you because I care deeply about the club, the team and the fans. I hope against hope that Messrs Gillett and Hicks will see this letter, or some portion of it, and do the right thing. In holding on and holding out, they risk damaging a sporting institution of global renown and if they have any conscience or nobility they will stand aside and allow new owners to take over the club for its future benefit and that of its lifeblood - the club’s fans.

One of the principles that unites us as Liverpudlians, gives us pride and informs our sense of identity is the philosophy of doing things The Liverpool Way. On the pitch this evolved from Shankly’s fearless attacking football into a simple but wonderful game of pass and move, founded on hard work and a team spirit that relied upon everybody fighting for each other. Off the pitch things were not so different. We would put our faith in the manager and support him to the fullest extent we were able. Since the day I accepted the honour of becoming Chairman of Liverpool F.C to the day I stood aside, that has been my guiding principle; back the manager, invest in his vision and ensure that the heartbeat of the club - the methods and ethics that we hold so dear - are preserved and continue in The Liverpool Way.

When I asked Rick Parry to join the club as Chief Executive, I knew that he too cherished these ideals. While we were both very eager for success and both dearly longed to help guide the club back towards the good times, we equally knew that there was a correct way, a Liverpool way of doing things. And one thing we would never countenance was any notion of borrowing against the club to create a phony wealth for some “jam today” spending splurge. I can say with certainty that our housekeeping was immaculate. I have always acted with the very best interests of the club at heart, and if I’ve made mistakes - which I know I have, and not solely with regard to Gillett and Hicks - then they have been honest mistakes.

To give a proper context to the situation we find ourselves in now, it’s important to trace things back to their roots. I became the majority shareholder of LFC in 1991, and underwrote a new share issue in 1994. Pre Euro 96, football was incredibly unfashionable. There was nobody else on the scene in Liverpool who was even remotely interested in taking on the financial challenge of LFC. I became involved for one reason - for the love of the club. But in the wake of Euro 96 with the influx of more and more overseas superstars on superstar wages, I was aware the game was changing beyond all recognition and deeply worried, too, about my ability to continue underwriting the financial side.

I was from the ever-decreasing pool of old-school club owners, the locally-based, locally wealthy supporter like Jack Walker who stuck his money in out of his passion for the club. If we’d have done it as an ‘investment’ we’d have come unstuck pretty quickly. Back then, football was a mug’s game when it came to the finances. You did it because you loved you club - although, unlike the Chairmen of other clubs, I would never entertain the idea of a stand or a stadium being named after myself. That wouldn’t be Liverpool, and it wouldn’t be me.

If loyalty is a weakness then I’m loyal to a fault. I stuck to my guns in terms of backing the people I trusted, and it began to work. Under Gerard Houllier we began seeing the results of a long-term strategy. The Academy, the new training facilities at Melwood, investment in the squad all required serious money - much more money than the club could ever generate in those pre-Champions League, pre silly-money years. It’s easy to overlook the fact that we only qualified for the Champions League for the first time in 2001, and only really started making money in Europe thereafter. But 2001 was a year we’ll all remember with great affection - the year we finally began our concerted fight back. Rick and myself felt satisfied that the time, the patience and the investment was finally amounting to the targets we aspired to: winning the League again, and re-establishing Liverpool F.C as a force in Europe.

I’d pinpoint 2002-2003 as pivotal in what led to my ultimate decision to stand aside if the club was ever going to truly progress - and if we could find the right calibre of investment, and curator. At the end of a terrific 2001-2002 where we made a bold and realistic scrap of the Premier League title chase and came agonisingly close in the Champions League, I backed Gerard in a significant summer of signings. The £20 million we spent was a huge outlay in those pre-Abramovich times, and it was done in the knowledge that we couldn’t repeat the spend again without significant progress - a proper go at the Champions’ League and, chief among our goals, the return of the League Title to Anfield. Very regrettably, 2002-03 failed to deliver our aspirations, and the players we invested in were unable to make a difference.

Rick was always vocal about planning for success, and after much soul-searching from everybody close to the club we bowed to the inevitable. We began to accept that the only way we could continue to compete was by building a new stadium. Anybody who cares to dredge the archive will find myself on record as finding the decision difficult to come to terms with; but looking back now, the thing I was finding most difficult, was the transformation of the game I loved. Football clubs were beginning to be seen as a source of profit rather than a source of pride; they were as much financial institutions as they were sporting legacies. The Abramovich era was upon us, and I knew that I could never compete.

The search for suitable custodians began in earnest. I don’t really care whether the supporters like me or approve of me - but it’s important that they believe me. I would never lie, never - and I have nothing to hide. We looked long and hard for the right person or institution, we followed up every lead. We WANTED that fantasy investor to come forward - the infinitely wealthy, Liverpool-loving individual or family with the wherewithal to transform our dreams into reality. And so sincere was our commitment to finding that person or company, that we invested huge sums and massive amounts of time investigating potential investors, only to conclude that they were not the right people for Liverpool. It would have been easier, I assure you, just to take the money, cross our fingers tight and hope things worked out - but we dug deep into every file and asked all the tough questions, knowing the answers might scupper any deal.

To give just one example, we responded to overtures from Thailand - the figures discussed were so enormous we were obliged to take a closer look. We had just persuaded Rafa to join the club as manager and were eager to back him in the transfer market. No matter how dizzying their wealth though, we would never simply rush into a relationship with an unsuitable partner, and so it transpired with Thailand. After looking closely at the deal we withdraw from the proposition, and did so for all the honourable reasons you’d expect from our club. So it was ironic that Manchester City was subsequently sold to the same entity, without so much as a murmur of disapproval from their fan base. When it suits them, football fans can turn a blind eye to the things they’d rather not have to acknowledge. We did acknowledge it though - we confronted the reality that the Thai offer was unethical, made our decision to withdraw and carried on the search. Rick’s remark about selling the family silver has been used repeatedly against ourselves and the board - but it was said in all seriousness, with all sincerity. Several years down the line, I do sometimes wonder if we took the process too seriously. Do the majority of fans just want owners, whoever they are, who’ll buy all the best players, come what may? Speaking for myself, I could never square that outlook and that legacy with our own unique football club.

Around that time, by the way, I experienced my first real backlash from the fans. It started with a few letters in The Echo and quickly grew into a campaign aimed at forcing me to sell. There’s an irony there somewhere that, in holding on and giving prospective new owners the third degree I was somehow seen as deliberately holding the club back! It was loud minority giving me stick, but this growing ill-feeling was certainly a factor I took into account. Our search for funding took us to the U.S where we spent time with the hugely impressive Robert Kraft.

[poolmania]

Continued.......


Both Rick and myself were disappointed that the Kraft family decided not to take their interest any further - Robert is a good man, and would have been a fitting custodian for LFC. Around the same time we met George Gillett for the first time, liked him very much as a man and were struck by his sheer passion for the club he owned, the Montreal Canadiens. There was a cultural similarity between the Canadiens and LFC, in that Montreal is perhaps the most un-Canadian of Canada’s major cities; the fans see themselves as separate (and perhaps superior) to the rest of the country. They are devoted to their team, which gives them a sense of pride and identity. Importantly, too, all the fans we spoke to on the street and around the stadium had nothing but affection and praise for their owner, George Gillett. Sadly George was unable to follow up his very real interest with the necessary funding to take our club forward.

We have been accused of failing to capitalise on the Istanbul Effect - in fact our talks with Dubai International Capital stemmed directly from winning the Champions League in 2005, with Sameer Al Ansari from DIC introducing himself to Rick Parry in Istanbul and making it known that he was an ardent Liverpool supporter. Rick wasted no time in following up this lead, and having laid out our needs (significant investment for players; a new stadium we spent the next year working out a deal with DIC. On 1st December 2006 we informed DIC that they were our preferred option - and that the deal would have to be completed by 31st December 2006, for 2 reasons.

Firstly, so that Rafa could take advantage of the January transfer window, and secondly the timeline of non-negotiable targets we had to hit if we were to start the new stadium on time. Several things happened (or didn’t happen) that gave cause for concern. Our being made aware that DIC had devised a 7-year exit strategy was one such issue, along with a suggestion they intended to raise £300 million in working capital (i.e debt), secured against the club. But by far biggest reality check came when we got down to the practicalities of planning a schedule of works on the new stadium. Under strict terms we had negotiated with the various agencies, local and European, with whom we had to deal over grants, planning permissions etc, we were on course to complete the stadium in time for the 2009/10 season, but we had to keep resolutely to the timetable. Therefore (also in December 2006), the club put it to DIC that it was essential we placed an immediate order for the steel required for the new ground’s infrastructure. The steel was going cost in the region of £12 million. Deadlines passed before and after Christmas. New Year 2007 came and still no steel, and quite frankly (and, I think, justifiably) we began to have misgivings.

At this juncture - January 2007 - George Gillett returned with a new proposal. We asked to hear more, and George introduced his partnership with the Hicks family. On 30th January 2007 (the day we played West Ham away) we put the Gillett/Hicks proposal to the board, and they voted in favour. . I was conscious of the fact I’d agreed a deal with DIC, and telephoned Sameer Al Ansari to tell him that the board preferred Gillett and Hicks’s offer, and I wanted 48 hours to think things through. DIC representatives confronted me prior to the game and put it to me that I had to sign off on their offer immediately or the deal would be withdrawn. I told them I wouldn’t be held to ransom - and they withdrew the offer. With hindsight, we may have had a lucky escape there as Dubai is not the buoyant market it was in 2007.

We moved ahead with Gillett and Hicks with all due speed (even now I can not accept that we were hasty) - and here is an element of the process I accept we could have handled better. We had looked into George Gillett’s affairs in detail, and he came up to scratch. To a great extent, we took Tom Hicks on trust, on George’s say-so. There was still the very real business of obtaining approval of the shareholders, however. I was the 51% majority stakeholder, but I was obliged to -and I wanted to - obtain a mandate from Liverpool’s shareholders great and small. Gillett and Hicks produced a very substantial offer document containing all the key assurances re debt, the stadium, investment in the squad and respect for Liverpool F.C’s unique culture, traditions and legacy. It was impressive stuff - and it did the trick. For the motion to be carried we needed around 90% in favour. Over 1700 shareholders voted and the result was 100% in favour of accepting Gillett & Hicks’s offer.

So many times I have had people ask me, and write to me, and quiz the people who are close to me:

“Wouldn’t a simple Google search have told you all you needed to know about Tom Hicks?”

I could be flippant and tell you I don’t know what Google is (I have never used a computer in my life). I could point out that internet searches are as likely to mislead as to inform. But the truth is that we went way beyond Google in our check-ups. We retained Price Waterhouse Coopers to advise us on the fabric of the deal, and they received assurances from Rothschilds, one of the most respected and respectable names in global finance, who vouched for both Tom Hicks and George Gillett. Indeed, Rothschilds - who were representing Gillett and Hicks - telephoned a non-executive director of LFC, Keith Clayton, to assure him that both were good for the money. Could we have done more? Probably - though under those circumstances, in that time-frame, probably not. We did our due diligence on Messrs Gillett and Hicks and if we’re guilty of anything it is that, after four years searching, we may have been too keen, too ready to hear the good news that George and Tom had passed their tests.

The Google question, along with any suggestion that the shareholders and I preferred the Gillett/Hicks bid because it promised to net us more money, is a source of anger to me. Internet culture is inexact and gossip-driven… to suggest anyone at our football club would run a financial health-check via a search engine is just silly. Don’t forget that everyone was delighted with their takeover at the time. Significant shareholders like Granada and Steve Morgan were insistent the board of LFC should accept the G&H offer, and left me in no doubt about my legal duty to accept the offer. George and Tom were carried shoulder high through the city centre on the afternoon of the Barcelona game in March 2007 - it wasn’t just me who was taken in. And as for the extra money I netted from the G&H deal - you really don’t know me if you think that was a factor. Ultimately, the deal we signed up to was laid it in unambiguous terms in the share offer document. That is a matter of fact. But at the end of the day you can carry out any number of checks with infinite degrees of scrutiny and certainty, but I doubt there’s any procedure available that will legislate for a guy you’ve come to trust looking you in the eye, telling you one thing and doing the exact opposite.

As I’ve already said, I feel no duty to justify myself and in writing to you now there is much I’ve withheld out of decency, more than duty. There’s also the very real possibility that, in speaking out, I might derail the process that many believe I can positively effect. But it has been hard for me, sitting mute on the sidelines as the club I love suffers one blow after another. Since resigning from the board I have not set foot inside Anfield - and it hurts. I hugely regret selling the club to George Gillett and Tom Hicks. I believe that, at best, they have bitten off much more than they can chew. Giving them that benefit of the doubt - that they started off with grand ideals that they were never realistically going to achieve - I call upon them now to stand back, accept their limitations as joint owners of Liverpool Football Club, acknowledge their role in the club‘s current demise, and stand aside, with dignity, to allow someone else to take up the challenge. Don’t punish the club’s supporters any more - God knows they’ve taken enough. Take an offer, be realistic over the price, make it possible. Let the club go. It is a sign of strength, not weakness, to concede for the greater good.

Yours faithfully,

David Moores

[sh4rpz]

Happy St Michael's Day guys!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQmO3S2eLPE&feature=player_embedded

sorry, couldn't resist! just a bit of fun guys!

[akescpt]

David Moores Letter to Tony Barret of the Times.

cheq moores u idiot..u put us in this miss...take your crap and shove it..

[AMG133]

Lots of loop holes in Moore's letter


OPEN LETTER TO DAVID MOORES by Kev Hoswon

Dear David,

In your letter published in The Times this morning you attempt to explain the process that led to the sale of Liverpool FC to Messrs Hicks and Gillett. This was welcome if not overdue. I would, however like to take issue with some of the statements made in that letter.

You precis your comments on the search for a new custodian with the words ” I don’t really care whether the supporters like me or approve of me – but it’s important that they believe me” but you then go on to suggest that pressure to sell from a “loud minority” of fans played on your mind and influenced your behaviour when scrutinising the Hicks / Gillett bid. For a man in your position to attempt to explain the lack of proper interrogation of new owners because of minority fan pressure for a quick sale is simply shameful. Not content with passing the buck for the decision onto the fans you also suggest that minority shareholders, including Granada and Steve Morgan, were similarly taken in by the Americans. The problem of course David is that those minority shareholders, like us fans, believed that you and Rick Parry had done all the due diligence, that you had checked these guys out. I mean you must have done surely, after all Rick Parry said:

“This is great for Liverpool, our supporters and the shareholders – it is the beginning of a new era for the Club. The partnership created by George and Tom is very special. They are bringing to the table tremendous and relevant experience, a passion for sport, real resources and a strong commitment to the traditions of Liverpool. Their approach represents exactly the sort of genuine partnership that Liverpool has been seeking over recent times. We know that George and Tom want a long-term relationship with Liverpool and that they also understand the importance of investing in our success both on and off the field. They have made clear their intention to move as quickly as practicable on the financing and construction of our proposed new stadium at Stanley Park and also to support investment in the playing squad. This has been an important time for the Club. We now have the right partners for the future. I am absolutely certain we have now ended up in the right place, with owners who will help the Club succeed and prosper.”

Do you not think that glowing testimonial might have been one of the reasons that the fans were brought onside and the shareholders voted unanimously to accept David? We were taken in because David Moores and Rick Parry told us that after a long search they had found the right people for the club. We trusted you. We trusted that you had done all the right checks and asked all the right questions. We trusted you because you were in a position of trust. You let us all down.

Despite earlier promises that you would dig deep into every file and ask all the tough questions, when it came to Hicks you let it swing on the word of his co-investor and a bank report that said they were “good for the money”. It seems that far from asking the tough questions you never even asked the obvious ones. Questions like “How do the supporters of his other sports franchises view him and his contribution to their club?” and “What is his record of burdening his other sporting acquisitions with the purchase debt?”

Unfortunately David, for someone who starts out by saying “I’m writing to you not out of any mission to clear my name – if I felt I had anything to apologise for I would have done so, without hesitation, a long, long time ago” the rest of the letter reeks of a man attempting to justify his decision and to pass the blame onto anyone else possible. That is not acceptable. That is not what is needed at this juncture.

I think most Liverpool fans accept that these mistakes were “honest mistakes”. We are not alleging malice, or even greed. As you say “It is a sign of strength, not weakness, to concede for the greater good”. So accept that those honest mistakes were yours and apologise for them. People can forgive an honest mistake as long as their is contrition and a desire to make it good. What is done is done, there is a far more important battle to be fought, a battle that should not be sidetracked by recriminations over past events.

You speak movingly in your letter about the principles that unite us a Liverpudlians. You now have the perfect opportunity to back up these fine words with support, public and financial for SoS and ShareLiverpool. Let your actions now speak for you. Anything less and we will be forced to conclude that your protestations to the current owners is nothing but bluster.

Throw your support behind the campaign to get the Americans out. Help to underwrite a fans buyout. If you want to rescue your family name, which despite your protestations to the contrary, it is obvious you do, then that is the only way that you will do it.

Kev Howson
http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/05/an-open-letter-to-david-moores/

[fishfly]

Happy St Michael's Day guys!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQmO3S2eLPE&feature=player_embedded

sorry, couldn't resist! just a bit of fun guys!

lol I love how the ref caves into peer pressure!