Looking to get into photography

[iDenTiTy]

Hi guys,

I'm looking at starting photography as a hobbie.

Now, what I have currently is a Sony PSC90 or something. I don't like the camera because it doesn't zoom very nice. Pictures tend to blur a bit. I think it's because of the digital zoom or something...

My uncle has a Canon 40D, I think - he loves the camera and picture quality is quite nice. He says that his friend at National Geographic reckons that Canon is a very, very good camera manufacturer.

My question is what camera is a nice camera to start photography with?
Like SLR or normal (what's the diff?), and please list possible camera model considerations.
:)

As I say I don't like my current one (the Sony PSC90), so will probably look at a new time.

Also, what brands are a good starting point? Or ones that I should stick to..

It must be known that I am a complete novice when it comes to photography and the tech involved..

:o

[marine1]

Well I started with the Sony Alpha A100 and now have the Alpha A700, in terms of what you get in a camera and the price, I dont think anything comes close to the Sony and they are very user friendly however Nikon and Canon are the best cameras.
By the way I was a complete novice as well. If I can help you with anything please let me know.
'Good luck

[iDenTiTy]

Nice.

Thanks Marine1. Kind of you.

I saw that Sony has some decent cameras. The models even have anti-shake, or something.

Will probably go for the Sony now.

Thanks again.

;)

:)

[bwana]

There are so many decent cameras around these days its going to be a hard choice. Probably the two most popular dSLR brands these days are Nikon and Canon but that doesnt mean you have to pick one of them by any means.

My 2¢ - Go to a camera shop and hold a few models and then come back here and ask questions - chances are someone has one and will be willing to give you some feedback. :)

[Pooky]

Have a look around, especially here: http://www.dpreview.com/ They are very informative.

I have a Sony A200 but the other option I was looking at was the Olympus E-510: http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=olympus-e510

How I chose was look at my price range first, and then research the various options to death until I was satisfied. I think that no matter what brand you choose though, you can't really go wrong. Canon and Nikon have a big lens base and secondhand market as they are quite old and popular brands, but that's not to say they are better than any other brand.

I would also recommend HIGHLY that you physically go to stores and hold and try out the various camera's, as the feel of one is a big factor. If there are more questions please ask. Also check out http://www.outdoorphoto.co.za/ Very helpful site.

[marine1]

The anti shake is amazing, yes a lens with anti shake is obvioulsy the best way to go but it does work very well.
I just feel buck for buck, the Sony is the best route to go. Just remember Sony design the sensors for Nikon D200 and D300. ;)

[iDenTiTy]

Cool. Thanks.

So far, the cheapest price/performance camera I can see is the Canon 400D.

I had a look at Sony, and the cheapest was 6-7000...

Anyway, my cousin in Hong-Kong is gonna have to bend over backwards for me...

She bought a Canon 40D for R4800 (exchange rate, calculated.).

I'm gonna have to look at a nice book as well.

I suppose the best way to learn is PRACTICE. ;)

Thanks guys. The first thing I'm gonna do is take all cameras fitting my budget, pick each one up and get "the feel", possibly distract the sales person and duck...

:D

On a serious note, thank you guys very much.

Nice to get opinions from people who have experience (gained from taking pictures of their hot neighbours) in this field.

:)

[marine1]

Go to DPREVIEW.COM - best site for cameras, do a side by side comparison.

[koffiejunkie]

Now, what I have currently is a Sony PSC90 or something. I don't like the camera because it doesn't zoom very nice. Pictures tend to blur a bit. I think it's because of the digital zoom or something...

Switch off the digital zoom - disable it completely. All it does is crop and upscale - you can rather do that on your computer with software dedicated to the task. GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/) is free and will do a better job than any camera.


My question is what camera is a nice camera to start photography with?

Get the cheapest DSLR you can get your hands on, if budget is at all a factor. You can't decide which brand you'll "stick to" before you've done a decent bit of shooting. You have to build some skill first to be able to decide how the camera helps or hinders you and your shooting style.


Like SLR or normal (what's the diff?), and please list possible camera model considerations.

Features, mostly, and less noise on the high end bodies. All digital SLRs on the market right now produce excellent pictures. I'll tell you what I tell everyone who's in the market for a first (digital) SLR. There are two models right now that are perfect. The Nikon D40 and the Pentax K100D Super. both are near end-of-production, so they're selling real cheap - £250-270 in the UK. You can probably get it even cheaper if you get it from Hong Kong. Both cameras have good features, some which you don't even find in the more expensive Canon bodies (like customisable Auto-ISO). Both take excellent pictures. Don't be put of by the 6MP - more pixels doesn't always equate into better image quality. They both use CCD type sensors, which in general has beter/lower-noise low-light/high-ISO performance than their direct CMOS competitors. I'm a little unclear on the lens options of the Nikon, but as far as I know you can use all the old lenses on it. You certainly can on the Pentax - any K-mount lens ever made, except the Ricoh lenses made for Ricoh bodies (used the same mount) as they have an extra pin that gets in the way. I've played around with a 30-ish year old 28mm lens on the K100D Super - it worked really well.

Here is a side-by-side comparison (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=nikon_d40%2Cpentax_k100dsuper&show=all) and reviews for the Nikon D40 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD40/) and Pentax K100D (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk100d/). The K100D is identical to the K100D Super, with the exception that the Super has built-in lens cleaning, Shake-Reduction, and suppords SDM lenses (USM in Canon talk).


The anti shake is amazing, yes a lens with anti shake is obvioulsy the best way to go but it does work very well.

One is not better than the other. They're different. In-lens stabilisation has the advantage of giving a stabilised image in the viewfinder. But it screws with perspective and bokeh (background blur). In-body doesn't mess with the image as much but it also doesn't give you a stabilised image in the viewfinder. All and all I prefer in-body, but it really comes down to personal choice - which compromise you prefer.


Anyway, my cousin in Hong-Kong is gonna have to bend over backwards for me...

She bought a Canon 40D for R4800 (exchange rate, calculated.).

Are you sure that wasn't the 400D? That's too-good-to-be-true even for the body only.


I'm gonna have to look at a nice book as well.

Book about the camera or about photography? This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_/026-4281114-4634030?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=magic+lantern+40D&x=0&y=0) is a nice companion to the camera's manual.

[ldmelsa]

I just feel buck for buck, the Sony is the best route to go.

Makro has the Nikon D40 with 18-55mm for R5000. Can't beat that! :D

[koffiejunkie]

Makro has the Nikon D40 with 18-55mm for R5000. Can't beat that! :D

So have you bought yours yet? :D

[ldmelsa]

I have Canon lenses so I might have to go with a 450D, but I really like the Nikon D40. :(

[marine1]

Makro has the Nikon D40 with 18-55mm for R5000. Can't beat that! :D
But you cannot compare the cameras. Sony wins

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=sony_dslra200%2Cnikon_d40&show=all

[koffiejunkie]

But you cannot compare the cameras. Sony wins

They're entirely comparable on just about everything aside from resolution. It's more expensive though. If you buy it go for the body and get a better lens. The reviews of the 17-70mm I've see are not great at all.

[HelloImNew]

I got a Canon 400d for 300 pounds in the UK and all I can say is that it is the best camera I have ever had! Price was awesome for what you are getting

[koffiejunkie]

Thatis a pretty good price! Just the body or kit?

[ldmelsa]

But you cannot compare the cameras. Sony wins

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=sony_dslra200%2Cnikon_d40&show=all
d40 has better lowlight (check for yourself)
d40 has much faster flash synch (1/500th VS only 1/160th[1/125th with steadyshot]) - important for daylight stuff
d40 exposure comp: -5ev +5ev (sony, only 2)
more lenses for d40 including the 18-200 VR (most versatile lens ever)



But you cannot compare the cameras.
I just did. Why can't I compare them?


Sony wins.
?

[marine1]

d40 has better lowlight (check for yourself)
d40 has much faster flash synch (1/500th VS only 1/160th[1/125th with steadyshot]) - important for daylight stuff
d40 exposure comp: -5ev +5ev (sony, only 2)
more lenses for d40 including the 18-200 VR (most versatile lens ever)



I just did. Why can't I compare them?


?

Ok I will try stay away from being sarcastic as you did.
Max Resolution Sony wins.
Low Resolution Sony wins
Image Ratio Sony wins
Effective pixels Sony wins
Sensor photo detectors Sony wins
Pixel density Sony wins.
Continuous Drive Sony wins
Image stabilization Sony wins
Flash modes Sony also has wireless / Nikon does not appear to have according to that site


Should I continue? :rolleyes:
And that is why I said you cannot compare them (opinion)
Oh yeah and Sony makes the sensors for Nikon.

"Thanks to Rob Galbraith for the tip-off on this interesting news, according to Japanese website Nikkei Electronics Online the 12.4 megapixel CMOS sensor used in the Nikon D2X is made by Sony. While not a huge surprise (as Sony were the manufacturer of the CCD sensors used in previous Nikon digital SLR's) it does show that Sony are now capable of producing professional quality CMOS sensors for digital SLR's. It's unclear however if this is an exclusive agreement between Sony and Nikon or if this sensor could make its way into other manufacturesr cameras (like the D100's CCD did). We are assuming of course that it was a Nikon (or collaborative) design."

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04091701nikond2xsony.asp
Oh and this is Sony's 2nd attempt at the DSLR market, pretty good. Their A700 compares with the D200 and 300.

[WonderBob]

I have seen wireless Nikon flashes. Nikon is used by the other half of professional photographers, of course they have wireless flashes.

[marine1]

But not on that model.

[WonderBob]

But not on that model.

The D40?

[mercurial]

I have Canon lenses so I might have to go with a 450D, but I really like the Nikon D40. :(

Why? :confused: On the surface, the 450D has much better specs, but my knowledge is rather limited in this area so I don't know.

@OP: If you're thinking of getting the 400D, you might as well get the new Canon 1000D. It's just R700 more and it has better specs.

I was actually gonna get the 1000D but now all this talk about the Nikon being a better cam than a Canon has got me thinking. What to do? :confused:

[WonderBob]

Why? :confused: On the surface, the 450D has much better specs, but my knowledge is rather limited in this area so I don't know.

@OP: If you're thinking of getting the 400D, you might as well get the new Canon 1000D. It's just R700 more and it has better specs.

I was actually gonna get the 1000D but now all this talk about the Nikon being a better cam than a Canon has got me thinking. What to do? :confused:

There is millions of discussions on Nikon vs Canon, and millions of different opinions on which is best.

On some photog forums they have gone as far as banning any Nikon vs Canon discussion, cause its pretty pointless.

Best to do is go to a shop, and pick both up go with the one that feels better to you.

[marine1]

Nikon and Canon are the best. No question about it. However pricing is high

[iDenTiTy]

I like the Nikon, as well as the Canon.

My dad had an old Minolta 35mm or something, and that thing is still one beautiful machine.

Seeing as Sony took over Minolta camera division (?), they can't be bad either...

Which Camera make has the largest pool of attachments here is SA?

What I mean is, which man. has the largest support base, part supply etc...

I like all the cameras, but am completely out of my depth..

For me, the best course of action would be to say; I have x amount to spend, I am looking for these features, and simply lie the cameras down in front of me, and get a feel for all of them...

Would the above action be wise (obviously after consulting more experienced people first)?

:)

[mercurial]

There is millions of discussions on Nikon vs Canon, and millions of different opinions on which is best.

On some photog forums they have gone as far as banning any Nikon vs Canon discussion, cause its pretty pointless.

Best to do is go to a shop, and pick both up go with the one that feels better to you.

Yeah. I like the fact that the Nikon D range are CCD, as opposed to CMOS. I will actually need this when I start my astrophotography. I'm seriously considering the D60 now. Would love the D80 but the price is a bit steep.

[greg_SA]

I'm going to buy a Nikon D40 in the next few weeks... great entry level camera!

[iDenTiTy]

I notice that online, the D40, EOS 350D, and EOS 400D, are roughly the same price..

They range from about 5 1/2 to 20 (including kits etc.)....

I suppose, because they so similar, I'm best off waiting till Christmas for price drops before I take the plunge.

:rolleyes:

[WonderBob]

I'm not sure waiting for prices to drop is the way to go.

With any technology, the longer you wait the more the market changes. By Christmas things will be different, and there will be different decisions to make.

I shoot on Canon, so my advice would be the 400D, but best advice I can give you is go to a proper pro photo shop and pick up the cameras and have a look.

[mercurial]

The 400D is a good starter's cam, but as I said earlier, if you're gonna go for the 400D, you might as well get the new and improved Canon 1000D for just about R700 more.

[koffiejunkie]

Max Resolution Sony wins.
Low Resolution Sony wins
Image Ratio Sony wins
Effective pixels Sony wins
Sensor photo detectors Sony wins
Pixel density Sony wins.
Continuous Drive Sony wins

Dude, you read way too much into the numbers. You just listed everything that doesn't guarantee a better picture at all. Higher pixel density, if anything, is a bad thing. It means your light receptors are smaller, which means they can't capture is light, which means more gain has to be applied, which increases noise.


Image stabilization Sony wins

Not over the Pentax. And you can use your VR lenses on the Nikon too.


Flash modes Sony also has wireless / Nikon does not appear to have according to that site

"Wireless" refers to using the pop-up flash to trigger external flashes. The remote flashes are triggered by the light. Every camera with a built-in flash, including your P&S has this. No idea why they explicitly mention for the Sony. If it really had wireless built into the camera (as in RF or something), you'd expect that to be mentioned - it's not.

Maybe you should read the conclusions of all three camera reviews (if not the whole review). While the Sony is certainly not a bad camera, there's very little, if anything, that makes this a no-contest win for the Sony. The Sony actually managed quite a few image quality related "Cons."


Oh yeah and Sony makes the sensors for Nikon.

So what? The sensor is but just one small part of the camera. If I'm not mistaken, the Pentax has a Sony sensor in as well.


Nikon and Canon are the best. No question about it. However pricing is high

No they're not (although the D3/D700 does raise the bar). They're the most popular. They backed up good cameras by making good marketing decisions. Each camera manufacturer has things they do well, and things they don't.

[koffiejunkie]

I suppose, because they so similar, I'm best off waiting till Christmas for price drops before I take the plunge.

They may have dropped right off the market by then.

[mercurial]

Ok I just checked out reviews and comparisons of the D60 and I'm not impressed. The D40 impressed me more. I'm considering either the D40 or the Canon 1000D.

[iDenTiTy]

I found this website on camera things.

THIS (http://www.cameralabs.com/)

Has lots of cameras and lenses.

Just for the record, I'm coming from a SONY DSC-P90A.
:o

They do reviews, group tests etc...

:)

[greg_SA]

Ok I just checked out reviews and comparisons of the D60 and I'm not impressed. The D40 impressed me more. I'm considering either the D40 or the Canon 1000D.

Agreed :D

I played with a D40 for a day, and I really like how the images look - JPEGs straight from the camera. That is important to me as the camera will be used like a point and shoot very often. Other DSLR cameras often produce in-camera JPEGs that are too realistic (dull) and need post processing to look good (in my opinion).

The D40 is a lot cheaper than the 1000D...

[mercurial]

I'm so confused right now.

[greg_SA]

I'm so confused right now.

Why?

[mercurial]

Why?

Not sure which cam to get. I was reading the review of the 1000D on dpreview.com and they weren't that impressed. Now I'm thinking I should rather go for the 450D.

[greg_SA]

Not sure which cam to get. I was reading the review of the 1000D on dpreview.com and they weren't that impressed. Now I'm thinking I should rather go for the 450D.

Well, it really depends on what you want out of the camera, and how much you are willing to spend. I want a fairly entry level DSLR that can take good photo's without needing to post process...

The Nikon D40 fits my criteria :D It took a lot of research to get to this point - there are just so many happy D40 owners out there ;)

[bwana]

Well, it really depends on what you want out of the camera, and how much you are willing to spend. I want a fairly entry level DSLR that can take good photo's without needing to post process...

The Nikon D40 fits my criteria :D It took a lot of research to get to this point - there are just so many happy D40 owners out there ;)You can say that about just about any brand these days. ;)

[mercurial]

bwana, what's your next cam gonna be?

[bwana]

bwana, what's your next cam gonna be?5D or its successor.

Here's my 2¢ - if you're still interested in a career in photography you have a couple choices. Either spend big now or you can spend as little as possible, while still getting a decent entry level dSLR, and when you're ready buy the gear to suit your needs.

[mercurial]

5D or its successor.

Here's my 2¢ - if you're still interested in a career in photography you have a couple choices. Either spend big now or you can spend as little as possible, while still getting a decent entry level dSLR, and when you're ready buy the gear to suit your needs.

I think that's the best move. I'll probably look at the 1000D now.

[greg_SA]

You can say that about just about any brand these days. ;)

Hehe... very true :o

[Kalvaer]

Like SLR or normal (what's the diff?), and please list possible camera model considerations.Oh and SLR stands for Single Lens Reflex. Basically it means the image you see, is coming directly through the lens into the view finder and when you look through it.. You are actually looking through the lens.

Found this nice site with some details for beginners: http://www.digital-slr-guide.com/best-digital-slr-camera.html

[ldmelsa]

5D or its successor.

5D has stellar image quality, but has an inaccurate screen and not the best usability. If you don't mind those issues then go for the 5D today. It's the most picture quality for your buck.

Personally, I would get the D700 if I was a wedding photographer. For absolute resolution, like landscape, I would get the 5D.

[ldmelsa]

I have Canon lenses so I might have to go with a 450D, but I really like the Nikon D40. :(
Why? :confused: On the surface, the 450D has much better specs, but my knowledge is rather limited in this area so I don't know.

It feels better in my hands. I don't like the 450D's grip. (just me)

[bwana]

5D has stellar image quality, but has an inaccurate screen and not the best usability. If you don't mind those issues then go for the 5D today. It's the most picture quality for your buck.

Personally, I would get the D700 if I was a wedding photographer. For absolute resolution, like landscape, I would get the 5D.At the moment I'm neither - I just need versatility. I'm also fairly certain the 5D will drop in price significantly when a successor comes out so either I'll get the successor (if business is booming) or the 5D - especially if it is a lacklustre upgrade either way win-win. :)

In the meantime I'm going to have to concentrate on glass.

[iDenTiTy]

Just saw something...

Theres DSLR and advanced digital cameras or something like that..

Apparently SLRs rely on the ability to interchange lenses, to achieve a perfect shot..

The other has a lens built in that zooms etc. Most cannot interchange lenses..

Can someone explain to me if my reasoning in slightly ANC YOUTH LEAGUE-ish..

Should I look at buying a DSLR (entry-level like the Nikon D40 or Canon 400D), with the knowledge that I can purchase high quality lenses to expand the cameras capabilities...
or
Purchase a non-DSLR camera, with a lens already attached, with the thought that I am not (probably) going to become the next great photographer, and therefore not need a super-duper quality lens to attach it to...

If I'm making any sense at all...

:)

[bwana]

Should I look at buying a DSLR (entry-level like the Nikon D40 or Canon 400D), with the knowledge that I can purchase high quality lenses to expand the cameras capabilities...
or
Purchase a non-DSLR camera, with a lens already attached, with the thought that I am not (probably) going to become the next great photographer, and therefore not need a super-duper quality lens to attach it to...

If I'm making any sense at all...

:)There's no rule that you have to get the super-duper quality lenses - there are plenty of less expensive ones that are of good quality.

Ask yourself - do you want to take the picture or do you want your camera to take it? If you dont think you want to get into the fiddly aspect of it then there are some more decent point and shoots available.

[iDenTiTy]

There's no rule that you have to get the super-duper quality lenses - there are plenty of less expensive ones that are of good quality.

Ask yourself - do you want to take the picture or do you want your camera to take it? If you dont think you want to get into the fiddly aspect of it then there are some more decent point and shoots available.

Well, what I'm looking at doing is starting photography as a hobby. I'd use it to take photos of nature, friends and the night sky...

I like the Canon Powershot S5i, but also the Nikon D40 and Canon 400D...

Dilemma...

:rolleyes:

[bwana]

The 400D is a good starter's cam, but as I said earlier, if you're gonna go for the 400D, you might as well get the new and improved Canon 1000D for just about R700 more.I still dont buy that.

IMHO the 1000D isnt that much better than the 400D and the 450D isnt that much better than the 1000D - tbh I'm not sure why canon has so many similar models in the same category . . . . when they should be concentrating on the 5D MkII :p

[Kalvaer]

Should I look at buying a DSLR (entry-level like the Nikon D40 or Canon 400D), with the knowledge that I can purchase high quality lenses to expand the cameras capabilities...
or
Purchase a non-DSLR camera, with a lens already attached, with the thought that I am not (probably) going to become the next great photographer, and therefore not need a super-duper quality lens to attach it to...

If I'm making any sense at all...

:)I would go for the DSLR if you can afford it. If you ever decide to actually get more into it. Then all you need to is buy new lenses.. If you dont get a DSLR and you want to go further.. You'll now have to buy both.

[mercurial]

I still dont buy that.

IMHO the 1000D isnt that much better than the 400D and the 450D isnt that much better than the 1000D - tbh I'm not sure why canon has so many similar models in the same category . . . . when they should be concentrating on the 5D MkII :p

It's not that much better but it is slightly better. It has a few more features that the 400D doesn't have.

[bwana]

It's not that much better but it is slightly better. It has a few more features that the 400D doesn't have.[-]It has spot metering[/-] . . on the other hand it while you can take an unlimited number of jpgs, compared to 27, you only get three RAW as opposed to 10 on the 400D. I dont shoot JPG and realistically cant imagine many ppl would these days.

[marine1]

OOPS I shoot jpg. :) Why shoot RAW? Because you can manipulate it?

[bwana]

OOPS I shoot jpg. :) Why shoot RAW? Because you can manipulate it?In short yeah. Sure you can manipulate jpgs but its lossy.

In RAW adjusting white balance etc with the data as it came from the sensor is lossless.

JPG used to have the advantage of size but these days cards are cheap, so are hard drives. :) Even if hdd space is at a premium you can always convert to jpg in post - after you've made all the adjustments.

[mercurial]

It has spot metering . . on the other hand it while you can take an unlimited number of jpgs, compared to 27, you only get three RAW as opposed to 10 on the 400D. I dont shoot JPG and realistically cant imagine many ppl would these days.

The RAW aspect is definitely one plus that he 400D holds over the 1000D, but what about all the other features?

• Live View
• Auto ISO adjust
• Auto lighting optimizer
• Custom 'My Menu'
• ISO in viewfinder
• High ISO noise reduction

I had a look at the video of the auto lighting optimizer and it is stunning.

Not much difference but given the slightly better features, I'd go with the 1000D.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon_1000d/page2.asp

[mercurial]

It has spot metering . . on the other hand it while you can take an unlimited number of jpgs, compared to 27, you only get three RAW as opposed to 10 on the 400D. I dont shoot JPG and realistically cant imagine many ppl would these days.

I wouldn't shoot JPG either. It's senseless.

[marine1]

OK no more JPG, sorry :D Maybe I must shoot RAWc - compressed - offered on the alpha a700

[bwana]

The RAW aspect is definitely one plus that he 400D holds over the 1000D, but what about all the other features?

• Live View
• Auto ISO adjust
• Auto lighting optimizer
• Custom 'My Menu'
• ISO in viewfinder
• High ISO noise reduction

I had a look at the video of the auto lighting optimizer and it is stunning.

Not much difference but given the slightly better features, I'd go with the 1000D.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon_1000d/page2.aspI've got no need for live view - especially considering Canon's implementation of it.

Auto ISO is nice but is it really necessary? I already know my ISO from when I switch on the camera and check the histogram - no chimping please :D

I've already switched off on camera noise reduction and sort it in post with noise ninja.

I would like a custom my menu just to put the format card (and I prefer CF to SD also) in a more convenient place. :o

I dont know about auto lighting optimisation.

All things considered I'd spend the difference on glass, filters, or a flash.

[mercurial]

Clearly you love your 400D :D

[bwana]

Clearly you love your 400D :DI love them both . . . equally (cant have one getting all jealous) . :D

[mercurial]

I love them both . . . equally (cant have one getting all jealous) . :D

Lol.

[iDenTiTy]

I found a place selling the 400D for R5999...

Is that a good price, considering that the shop also sells the Nikon 40D + Lens kit for R4999?

Yours truly,

Confused...

[bwana]

I found a place selling the 400D for R5999...

Is that a good price, considering that the shop also sells the Nikon 40D + Lens kit for R4999?

Yours truly,

Confused...Qn 1: Have you held either/both of them?
Q2: Which one has the lenses you think you'll want?
Lol.Actually one (the XTi version) generally sits in the box accompanied by a big silica packet. :D

[iDenTiTy]

Qn 1: Have you held either/both of them?
Q2: Which one has the lenses you think you'll want?Actually one (the XTi version) generally sits in the box accompanied by a big silica packet. :D

Sorry, but this will sound somewhat stupid...

Isn't a lens a lens.... Like Canon 120mm vs. Nikon 120mm or something...

Dunno, but the 400D just feels right... Haven't felt the Nikon yet though...

Also would you say the lack of a stabilization feature is a negative for the 400D?

I have some nice software (Adobe Photoshop - gift from uncle) that I can use to edit photos, so a camera that has Adobe RGB selection is kinda cool...

Thanks bwana, for your input.

:)

[mercurial]

bwana: Well you do make good points about the 400D. It's not that much different. I wanted to ask you - that whole 1.5fps RAW thing about the 1000D - does it have any effect on the images? I know it means the buffer is smaller, which means it can't store as many RAW shots in the buffer, but what does that all actually mean? The only other thing that I like is the autolighting optimizer of the 1000D. I watched the video on the Canon site last night and I was amazed.

[bwana]

Sorry, but this will sound somewhat stupid...

Isn't a lens a lens.... Like Canon 120mm vs. Nikon 120mm or something...No - they might have the same focal length - possibly the same aperture but each is bound to have quirks of their own.
Dunno, but the 400D just feels right... Haven't felt the Nikon yet though...Pick one up - you'll be carrying it around for a few years so comfort is a factor.
Also would you say the lack of a stabilization feature is a negative for the 400D?Possibly - Canon offers its IS via their lenses. Nikon too I think.

I dont have any IS lenses - not just because of their extra cost but because of when/where/what I shoot. If I need to keep the camera steady I can always use a tripod or my pod.
I have some nice software (Adobe Photoshop - gift from uncle) that I can use to edit photos, so a camera that has Adobe RGB selection is kinda cool...depending on if you're going to print or just display it on a monitor the Adobe RGB colour space might not be the right choice - having it as an option sure doesn't hurt though :)
Thanks bwana, for your input.

:)Pleasure :)
bwana: Well you do make good points about the 400D. It's not that much different. I wanted to ask you - that whole 1.5fps RAW thing about the 1000D - does it have any effect on the images? I know it means the buffer is smaller, which means it can't store as many RAW shots in the buffer, but what does that all actually mean? The only other thing that I like is the autolighting optimizer of the 1000D. I watched the video on the Canon site last night and I was amazed.It means that once the three consecutive shots have been taken there is a lag while the first one is written to the card before you can take the next shot.

I'll have to have a look at the auto lighting thingamajig.

[koffiejunkie]

Just saw something...

Theres DSLR and advanced digital cameras or something like that..

Apparently SLRs rely on the ability to interchange lenses, to achieve a perfect shot..

The other has a lens built in that zooms etc. Most cannot interchange lenses..

You know, I think you need to decide how much you want to spend. The Canon G9 can be operated just about fully manually but is still compact enough to put in your shirt pocket, and you don't have to fiddle around with lenses. If you intend to be using the DSLR in point&shoot mode you won't learn anything anycase.

SLRs aren't better because their lenses are better. Many point&shoots have very very high quality glass. If you think about it, these days they have to be able to resolve 10MP+ through that tiny piece of glass, so it has to be pretty high quality glass. SLRs are better (in terms of image quality) because their lenses are wider and their sensors are bigger, which mean they can resolve details much better, capture more light, use less electronic trickery i.e. cause less noise, and they tend to have more powerful processors, so their jpeg output is better than what you get from a P&S. Point in case, the Canon G9. 12MP, and it can do RAW. The JPEGs from it, if you look closely, look just as smudgy as from any other P&S I've owned, but if you look at the RAW files from it, there is a heck of a lot more detail. So, the camera loses a lot of detail when converting to JPEG, and this is because it's not powerful enough to do the same quailty conversion (you could argue that's done on purpose - marketing...).


bwana: Well you do make good points about the 400D. It's not that much different. I wanted to ask you - that whole 1.5fps RAW thing about the 1000D - does it have any effect on the images? I know it means the buffer is smaller, which means it can't store as many RAW shots in the buffer, but what does that all actually mean? The only other thing that I like is the autolighting optimizer of the 1000D. I watched the video on the Canon site last night and I was amazed.

Well, of course that video would be too good to be true. They choose the image matter for those videos really carefully so that the feature performs as good as it possibly can. They want you to sell your 400D and get the 1000D. You know what, when you're out there taking your pictures, all those wizz-bang features only give you consistent, good results if you are in good conditions. As soon as your conditions become challenging - too many different light sources, too much contrast in the scene, etc - those features will start failing you, and you will have to be able to work out how to take that shot properly yourself. If you learned to shoot while relying on those features, and those features fail you, guess what? You'll miss the shot.

Anyway, those features don't help you much when you're shooting RAW anycase.

[Kalvaer]

Lenses and the ability to choose the right lens for the right application are much more important than that.

I am not saying currently there are SLR's with better quality lenses than some of the point and shoots, but the ability to choose is the biggest difference.

I can personally give you two different lenses right now for a camera that might look the same... but take the same photo with the same camera through them.. and you will think one was taken by a complete idiot.

Point and Shoot Camera's have made things much easier, and DSLR's have also meant that many more people can take really really good photographs, but put the right camera in the hands of a pro... and he will take photo's a million times better than any point and Shoot

PS: I'm not talking about myself here.. just seen the difference between photo's I have taken with a really expensive "point and shoot", compared to my Brother-in-law who is a professional photographer. Technology has made it easier.. but dont underestimate the guys who know what they are doing... Especially not the lenses.

But one this I think is true.. do you want to be a "PRO" or somebody who takes really good photo's??? Its all about how much you have to spend?
Of course.. add photoshop into it.. and I have seen photo's taken by a complete idiot.. look better than any pro... Technology has changed much from 35mm film to what we can all do now

[koffiejunkie]

I am not saying currently there are SLR's with better quality lenses than some of the point and shoots

I'm not saying the opposite either. All I'm saying is P&S don't give crappy jpegs because they have bad glass.


I can personally give you two different lenses right now for a camera that might look the same... but take the same photo with the same camera through them.. and you will think one was taken by a complete idiot.

While I agree that there are excellent lenses and rubbish lenses for SLRs, I wouldn't go as far as saying a poor quality lens necessarily produces bad images. I've seen bad hardware (and not just in photography) produce excellent results in the hands of a pro.

Point in case, some people are taking really nice pics with Holga/Lomos. Go figure ;)


@iDenTiTy_CRiSiS, to add to your confusion, here's the 1000D review, fresh off the press:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1000d/

[koffiejunkie]

This review really confirms what I've been thinking all along. The 1000D is not the new version of the 400D - it's *below* the 400D. It only has a few new goodies because technology have moved on. If you want a camera that replaces the 400D, get the 450D - the 1000D is the new entry level, and it's a lower entry point than the 400D was.

[mercurial]

Well, of course that video would be too good to be true. They choose the image matter for those videos really carefully so that the feature performs as good as it possibly can. They want you to sell your 400D and get the 1000D. You know what, when you're out there taking your pictures, all those wizz-bang features only give you consistent, good results if you are in good conditions. As soon as your conditions become challenging - too many different light sources, too much contrast in the scene, etc - those features will start failing you, and you will have to be able to work out how to take that shot properly yourself. If you learned to shoot while relying on those features, and those features fail you, guess what? You'll miss the shot.

Anyway, those features don't help you much when you're shooting RAW anycase.

True.

[greg_SA]

I went to Makro yesterday, and played with the Nikon D40 (R5000) and the Canon 400D (R7500). Here are my subjective opinions - this is just how the camera felt to me :) ...

I preferred the feel on the Nikon - the grip as well as the viewfinder. Using the Nikon viewfinder felt more natural to use. I felt like I have to focus on the canon viewfinder more - I had to move my head/eye a few time to look through the viewfinder correctly. The large number of auto-focus points visible in the canon viewfinder were also a bit distracting.

They are both great cameras, but to me the Nikon is a bit more comfortable/natural to use. I'm sure other people may find in the canons favor... so I agree with may comments in this thread to test out a camera and see how they work for you. I can recommend going to Makro - they let me take out a few DSLRs and play with they - no problem.

[greg_SA]

I'm thinking of going for a Sony lol. I'm sorry that I keep changing my mind, but I want a SLR that's capable of delivering when it comes to astrophotography as well. The Sony Alpha range has CCDs instead of CMOS sensors, which is perfect for astrophotography - long, long exposures without a noise issue.

I think the Nikon D40 and D60 are also CCD... Anyway, the new Sonys do seem pretty good. I read an article on the A350 - has a really nice Live View system :)

[marine1]

I'm thinking of going for a Sony lol. I'm sorry that I keep changing my mind, but I want a SLR that's capable of delivering when it comes to astrophotography as well. The Sony Alpha range has CCDs instead of CMOS sensors, which is perfect for astrophotography - long, long exposures without a noise issue.
If you want to play with my Sony Alpha I have 2 - the A100 and the A700 you are more than welcome.

[marine1]

Only issue the A700 does not have is the "Liveview" But thats not a problem for me.

[mercurial]

If you want to play with my Sony Alpha I have 2 - the A100 and the A700 you are more than welcome.

That's very kind of you. Whereabouts are you situated? I was looking at the A200, but I read the cons on dpreview.com and now I'm looking at perhaps the A300, but I wanna check out the reviews for that as well.

[marine1]

I am in Lonehill., Sandton

[PostmanPot]

Lol I'm in Cape Town.

Must've thought "/\/¯¯¯¯¯\/\" was a mine dump. :D

[bwana]

Mod_note: Astrophotography related posts moved here http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=128050

[Kalvaer]

Mod_note: Astrophotography related posts moved here http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=128050HEHE Sorry Bwana.. seems we keep on getting confused and swopped around.

[marine1]

Yeah :D

[Wynsam]

I cant understand why Canon chooses to disable their cameras, the entry level ones, by taking out spot metering. I cannot live without it. On all my cameras, except the very old manual everything one, spot metering is there, and I use it alot. Its a big part of photography. Once you get used to the picture modes and what they do and outgrow them you have to have it IMHO. Its a natural progression.

The new canon 1000 I see has been disables again like this. Its so cheap of them. Other manufacturers have the feature on their most basic models.( Well Nikon and Sony do, not sure about the other) Sony do well and dedicate a button to this even on the entry level camera right where you need it.

Canon hook you into DSLR and then force you to buy up as soon as you are frustrated by this.

Rant over:)

[koffiejunkie]

+1

Pentax does too. The K100D Super even has proper, configurable Auto-ISO and usable ISO3200

[bwana]

It doesn't mean it shouldn't have it but spot metering would be the last of my reasons for upgrading.

[koffiejunkie]

It doesn't mean it shouldn't have it but spot metering would be the last of my reasons for upgrading.

I guess knowing how to judge the light and compensate accordingly if you don't have spot-metering is priceless. It was the furthest thing from my mind when I was shopping for a camera, but now that I have it, and have gotten used to using it, I'd definitely feel it if I lost it.

[bwana]

I guess knowing how to judge the light and compensate accordingly if you don't have spot-metering is priceless. It was the furthest thing from my mind when I was shopping for a camera, but now that I have it, and have gotten used to using it, I'd definitely feel it if I lost it.Knowing how to read the histogram helps too. :)

[koffiejunkie]

If only you got a live histogram in a DSLR's viewfinder...

[bwana]

If only you got a live histogram in a DSLR's viewfinder...That would be useful. :)

[Wynsam]

Yes there are ways to compensate for a lack of spot metering. But to me it seems like you are doing just that, compensating. A DSLR is a cumbersome thing to lug around, it takes many very expensive lenses, compared to a point and shoot that is.

My feeling is that if a person decided that they would happily accept those compromises and pay extra over a p&s then surely they will grow into wanting and needing spot metering even if they don't on day one.

[Wynsam]

That would be useful. :)

Maybe its not far off. Live view was thought almost impossible and not necessary not that long ago. Now almost everyone has a version of it.

[koffiejunkie]

My feeling is that if a person decided that they would happily accept those compromises and pay extra over a p&s then surely they will grow into wanting and needing spot metering even if they don't on day one.

Actually, you grow out of needing it. Read my earlier post. There was a time when there was no spot metering. Photographers still managed to take good shots.

[Wynsam]

Actually, you grow out of needing it. Read my earlier post. There was a time when there was no spot metering. Photographers still managed to take good shots.

Sure it, maybe I am not there yet. Still it seems an important enough feature that most other makers include it.

Here is an idea, maybe I need to learn how to do without it? Enough experience with and I will soon learn exactly how it compensates for most given situations. A bit like the picture modes. Useful as a starting point.

A light meter(remember them) to take a spot reading was considered a must have for many a photographer in days gone by and still is in some circles.

[koffiejunkie]

Yeah, I forgot about external light meters. Maybe because I never had one. That said, where I grew up one of my dad's photographer buddies had a camera fail on a shoot, and his extra body on that day was an old manual camera (not sure which), and he discovered that the battery was dead, and he didn't have an external light meter with him, so he had to rely on his instincts. Still nailed it.

Agreed on Canon though. They really should include these things, if only to match the competition. And that excuse for an Auto-ISO implementation is just not good enough. FFS, they even have it on their semi-pro bodies (40D, for example).

[bwana]

Such a big fuss about this? (taken from the 40D manual)

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/picture.php?albumid=19&pictureid=424

[koffiejunkie]

Such a big fuss about this? (taken from the 40D manual)

I was referring to Auto-ISO. Auto-ISO is my only real complaint about the 40D. Spot metering on the 40D works great.

[bwana]

I was referring to Auto-ISO. Auto-ISO is my only real complaint about the 40D. Spot metering on the 40D works great.We were discussing spot metering earlier. My reference to the 40D was only because they offered such a simple graphic WRT light metering showing the comparatively small difference between Spot and Partial.

As for Auto ISO . . . its another thing I really dont need.

[Wynsam]

Such a big fuss about this? (taken from the 40D manual)

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/picture.php?albumid=19&pictureid=424

Why go to the effort of taking it out? Spot metering that is.

Is there a way of getting partial metering on a button as opposed to a menu item with a 1000D or 350D, I dont know?

[bwana]

Why go to the effort of taking it out? Spot metering that is.

Is there a way of getting partial metering on a button as opposed to a menu item with a 1000D or 350D, I dont know?I have no idea (on either question).

TBH I rarely pay attention to what metering mode my camera is in. :o

[koffiejunkie]

I don't *need* Auto-ISO either, but there are times when I would like to have it. My gripe is more about the half-arsed way they implemented it - might as well have left it out altogether.

[bwana]

My only complaint about the 400D is that when I'm shooting in manual I invariably poke myself in the eye when I want to adjust the aperture - I guess that's why I'm almost always shooting in AP. :o

[koffiejunkie]

Lol! Get a bigger camera :D

[marine1]

Huh? How does that happen Bwana?

[bwana]

Lol! Get a bigger camera :DAint going to help - had a look at the 40D manual and it seems that instead of my eye it would be my nose getting poked.

[koffiejunkie]

Naah, the wheel on the back is far enough to the right. Unless your eyes are really far apart :)

Why on earth did they have to go and get rid of the aperture ring on the lens? It's so much more convenient.

[bwana]

Naah, the wheel on the back is far enough to the right. Unless your eyes are really far apart :)

Why on earth did they have to go and get rid of the aperture ring on the lens? It's so much more convenient.Or left eyed. I just tried mine with my right eye and it was a snap to operate.

The ring was a better way.

[koffiejunkie]

I use my left eye since my right eye isn't all that good. But if I did use right eye - it would have been well out of the way.

[Kalvaer]

Maybe its not far off. Live view was thought almost impossible and not necessary not that long ago. Now almost everyone has a version of it.I think the problem with it is how SLR's work.. You are looking through the lens. For this to work, the mirror is in the way of the shutter and the CCD/CMOS/Film. The Mirror has to be moved out of the way in order for the histogram to actually meter things?

That being said though, I did read somewhere today of a new DSLR that had live view, with some sort of split system... cant remember what it was though.. just saw the price and closed the tab on the browser :eek:

[koffiejunkie]

I think the problem with it is how SLR's work.. You are looking through the lens. For this to work, the mirror is in the way of the shutter and the CCD/CMOS/Film. The Mirror has to be moved out of the way in order for the histogram to actually meter things?

Well, it meters with the mirror down. I think the bigger challenge is how to display the histogram in the viewfinder. You'll need to overlay it somehow - hologram maybe? The other problem is also, your eye is not focussing on anything in the camera - it's focussing on what the camera sees - so if you put something in the viewfinder (or at least, in-between the lens and the viewfinder), it will be out of focus to your eye.

[Kalvaer]

AAAhhhh ok now I get it.. Guess they would have to try do something like a HUD pilots use, but that would get costly

[marine1]

A HUD in a camera now there is an idea. Maybe you should patent that idea. Can you imagine having that in a digital camera? Awesome

[Wynsam]

A HUD in a camera now there is an idea. Maybe you should patent that idea. Can you imagine having that in a digital camera? Awesome

I think we might be getting carried away here. What was this thread about anyway...:)

[mercurial]

Can someone please give me a layman explanation as to what spot metering is? Please no wiki links.

[koffiejunkie]

Look at the pic that bwana posted earlier. The grey circle is the area that the camera considers when reading the light. It pretty much ignores the rest. Why would you use this? Well, if you're taking pictures of, say, your kid singing at the talent show, and everything on stage is black, so you have a brightly lid kid in the spot-light with a completely dark background, you don't want the camera to consider all the dark bits, because 1) they don't interest you and 2) they'll cause over exposure as the camera tries to make up for it. So you narrow the scope of that the metering will see.

Spot-light - spot-metering

That kinda explains it :)

[mercurial]

Aah, I see. Thanks. So without this, what are my options? I've read so many sites and the one constant is that the 400D is a great camera.

[koffiejunkie]

Try the ones you can afford, take the one that's the most comfortable to use.

Yes the 400D is a great camera. But so are just about every other DSLR available on the market today. If spot-metering is important to you, skip the 400D/450D/1000D - they don't have it. If you want both spot-metering and Canon, get the 40D - but that's way more money. If brand is not the ultimate consideration for you, but spot-metering and money is, look at the Nikon D40 and Pentax K100D Super. They're both great camers, they both have spot-metering, and they're both selling for peanuts.

[mercurial]

Cool. I'm just leaning toward the 400D cos I've read on many sites that it always performs very well with low light. If I don't have spot metering, what other functionality do they have to compensate for this?

[bwana]

Try the ones you can afford, take the one that's the most comfortable to use.

Yes the 400D is a great camera. But so are just about every other DSLR available on the market today. If spot-metering is important to you, skip the 400D/450D/1000D - they don't have it. If you want both spot-metering and Canon, get the 40D - but that's way more money. If brand is not the ultimate consideration for you, but spot-metering and money is, look at the Nikon D40 and Pentax K100D Super. They're both great camers, they both have spot-metering, and they're both selling for peanuts.Correction - the 450D does offer spot metering.
Huh? How does that happen Bwana?I'm left handed/eyed and most cameras seem to favour right eyed people wrt the placement of the controls.
Cool. I'm just leaning toward the 400D cos I've read on many sites that it always performs very well with low light. If I don't have spot metering, what other functionality do they have to compensate for this?Partial metering works just fine on the 400D - its only a slightly larger area than a spot reading would use. Keep in mind what that one article had to say about the Pentax K100D and its unsuitability for astrophotography.

[marine1]

Does the sony alpha a700 offer spot metering? I wonder.

[bwana]

Does the sony alpha a700 offer spot metering? I wonder.Yes, but there's no indication on DPReview about how confined it is.

[marine1]

Type: TTL metering
Cell: 40-segment honeycomb-pattern SPC
Range: 0 EV to 20 EV (+2 EV to +20 EV with Spot metering)
(at ISO 100 equivalent with F1.4 lens)
Mode: Multi segment, Spot, Center weighted

[koffiejunkie]

Correction - the 450D does offer spot metering.

My mistake, sorry.

[mercurial]

Partial metering works just fine on the 400D - its only a slightly larger area than a spot reading would use. Keep in mind what that one article had to say about the Pentax K100D and its unsuitability for astrophotography.

Cool. I'm leaning towards the 400D. I just don't like the way it looks. The Nikons look really nice. I also hope I feel comfortable holding it. I think I should make a turn by Makro tomorrow just to have a feel for the camera.

[bwana]

Cool. I'm leaning towards the 400D. I just don't like the way it looks. The Nikons look really nice. I also hope I feel comfortable holding it. I think I should make a turn by Makro tomorrow just to have a feel for the camera.If you dont like the way it looks then why buy it? Consumers are spoilt for choice these days :)

[mercurial]

If you dont like the way it looks then why buy it? Consumers are spoilt for choice these days :)

Because of its great functionality and flexibility. But maybe if I see the thing in real life I would like it more.
Else I would be choosing something based on its looks and that might offend sensitive viewers :p

[koffiejunkie]

Cool. I'm leaning towards the 400D. I just don't like the way it looks. The Nikons look really nice.

Hehe, the Nikons' look is the one thing that puts me off - especially from behind. Some of them look like they're missing a cover or something :)

[mercurial]

Hehe, the Nikons' look is the one thing that puts me off - especially from behind. Some of them look like they're missing a cover or something :)

Lol, in that case I better go and have a look and feel for the cameras before I make the leap.

[bwana]

Yeah - make sure it is a comfortable fit :)

[koffiejunkie]

Lol, in that case I better go and have a look and feel for the cameras before I make the leap.

Don't take my word for visual merits - I still think Cindy Crawford is butt ugly :D

[mercurial]

I will definitely go have a look and feel first. I'm on dpreview.com now and the pic there doesn't make the Nikon look nice lol. Aah well, I think I'm not gonna know for sure unless I actually go there and feel it.

[bwana]

I will definitely go have a look and feel first. I'm on dpreview.com now and the pic there doesn't make the Nikon look nice lol. Aah well, I think I'm not gonna know for sure unless I actually go there and feel it. . . . . and then comes the glass :eek:

[mercurial]

. . . . and then comes the glass :eek:

Lol yeah. I will in all probablity get the 400D. The glass is gonna cost quite a bit. There's a few that I wanna get and they're quite expensive, but at the end of the day, it's really worth it.
I read somewhere that the lens that they give with the 400D isn't that great and they advised to get a better one. I might wanna get the IS version of that. Your thoughts?

[mercurial]

This is from dpreview.com WRT to the 400D's pros and cons: (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page29.asp)




Conclusion - Pros

Excellent resolution, lots of detail, not a leap from eight megapixels, but certainly from six
Good color with selectable PictureStyles for different subject types
Good dynamic range (more than peers) with soft roll-off of highlights
'Integrated Cleaning System' designed to keep dust at bay
Widest range of image parameter adjustments among its peers
Low noise throughout the sensitivity range, noise reduction maintains detail well
Good in-camera image processing, resolution advantage shooting RAW is slight
Larger, brighter and more detailed LCD monitor
Re-designed user interface a great improvement over the EOS 350D
On-screen setting adjustment (ISO, WB, etc.) surprisingly quick and easy to use
Updated nine point AF system, proved fast, accurate and still good in low light
Very fast off to shot time (virtually instant), slightly slower if you want to read screen
Numerous small bug fixes improve usability
Magnification available in record review (although requires two button press)
Small and light but hand grip is still too small, can be uncomfortable for large hands
Excellent supplied software bundle, two RAW conversion options
Remote capture software included for computer controlled shooting
Unique JUMP mode in playback (by date, 10 or 100 images)
Value for money

Conclusion - Cons

Kit lens disappointing, better to buy body only and spend more on a good lens
Sporadic continuous shooting once buffer is full
Occasional under-exposure issue with Evaluative metering
Average automatic white balance performance, still very poor under incandescent light
ISO, WB, Metering mode etc. not displayed on viewfinder status bar during change
Flash must be raised for AF assist
No Kelvin white balance selection in-camera
No spot metering
No mass storage device USB driver, poor WIA transfer rates (and awkward to use)
Opening the CF compartment door shuts camera down, loses any buffered images
Small viewfinder view



What can you tell me about those cons? Are they bad?

[greg_SA]

I will definitely go have a look and feel first. I'm on dpreview.com now and the pic there doesn't make the Nikon look nice lol. Aah well, I think I'm not gonna know for sure unless I actually go there and feel it.

To me, they all look pretty similar (in real life)... The lenses are quite a bit bigger than they look on websites :D

[bwana]

What can you tell me about those cons? Are they bad?Kit lens disappointing, better to buy body only and spend more on a good lens - it's a mixed bag. I've got some good shots out of mine and I'm keeping it in my bag once my new lens arrives just to have something semi disposable.

Sporadic continuous shooting once buffer is fullNever really noticed that but its not to say it isnt true.

Average automatic white balance performance, still very poor under incandescent light Easy fix in post.

Occasional under-exposure issue with Evaluative metering I rarely pay attention to what metering mode its in. If I slightly under/over expose a batch it takes 10 seconds to fix the lot. Probably should pay more attention to it though.

ISO, WB, Metering mode etc. not displayed on viewfinder status bar during change Sounds about right.

Flash must be raised for AF assistI switched that off anyway - the flickering of the flash bugged me a little.

No Kelvin white balance selection in-camera - I either do a custom WB or fix it in post

No spot metering - did I mention I really couldnt care less on that one

No mass storage device USB driver, poor WIA transfer rates (and awkward to use) I've been using a card reader for so long I wouldnt know.

Opening the CF compartment door shuts camera down, loses any buffered images - never knew that. I'll give it a test later.

Small viewfinder view - iirc its around 95%

If I had thought there was anything particularly wrong with the camera I probably wouldnt have got a spare.

[mercurial]

Awesome post, thanks a lot. On the issue of card readers... do I need this? Will it not transfer any other way? Also, is there any real difference between the different speeds of the compact flash cards? Some are 133 and others are 266 etc...
http://www.orms.co.za/browse.php?a=browse&brand=9&category=214

[bwana]

Awesome post, thanks a lot. On the issue of card readers... do I need this? Will it not transfer any other way? Also, is there any real difference between the different speeds of the compact flash cards? Some are 133 and others are 266 etc...
http://www.orms.co.za/browse.php?a=browse&brand=9&category=214In my experience the card reader seems quicker and it doesnt drain the camera battery. Worth the money IMO.

CF cards - as far as I can tell the speed is only relevant when you're copying off the card. I've got all sorts of brands/speeds and they all seem to write at the same speed.

[mercurial]

In my experience the card reader seems quicker and it doesnt drain the camera battery. Worth the money IMO.

CF cards - as far as I can tell the speed is only relevant when you're copying off the card. I've got all sorts of brands/speeds and they all seem to write at the same speed.

Cool. I need to get one of those.

I'm looking at the Ducati range of CFs. They look awesome and I checked on dpreview.com and they showed that these cards allow remarkable copying speeds.

[bwana]

Cool. I need to get one of those.

I'm looking at the Ducati range of CFs. They look awesome and I checked on dpreview.com and they showed that these cards allow remarkable copying speeds.Never heard of them - As long as the card is reputable then it should be fine. iirc mine are mostly sandisk.

I'm using a bit of a convoluted process now that I use a GPS datalogger. I copy the GPS data track using windows (via parallels), copy all the photos from the card onto my hdd, append the exif, then import them into Aperture which then does its thing. Patience is a virtue :o

[koffiejunkie]

I read somewhere that the lens that they give with the 400D isn't that great and they advised to get a better one. I might wanna get the IS version of that. Your thoughts?

I have not been impressed with the non-IS version, but most guys here are happy with it, so maybe the quality control is just not great. That said, according to these (http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/180-canon-ef-s-18-55mm-f35-56-ii-test-report--review) reviews (http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/181-canon-ef-s-18-55mm-f35-56-is-test-report--review), the IS version is clearly a better lens.

[mercurial]

Never heard of them - As long as the card is reputable then it should be fine. iirc mine are mostly sandisk.

I'm using a bit of a convoluted process now that I use a GPS datalogger. I copy the GPS data track using windows (via parallels), copy all the photos from the card onto my hdd, append the exif, then import them into Aperture which then does its thing. Patience is a virtue :o

dpreview.com showed a tremendous speed increase with those Sandisk Ducati memory cards, but I can't find the link now. Apparently they are many, many times faster.
They are available at sacamera.co.za (http://www.sacamera.co.za/product/179/Sandisk-Compact-Flash-Cards.html)

:eek: Why such a lengthy process? What does a GPS datalogger do?

[mercurial]

I have not been impressed with the non-IS version, but most guys here are happy with it, so maybe the quality control is just not great. That said, according to these (http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/180-canon-ef-s-18-55mm-f35-56-ii-test-report--review) reviews (http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/181-canon-ef-s-18-55mm-f35-56-is-test-report--review), the IS version is clearly a better lens.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the IS ones are much better. But If I just buy the body and a separate lens, I might as well get a 450D.

[koffiejunkie]

dpreview.com showed a tremendous speed increase with those Sandisk Ducati memory cards, but I can't find the link now. Apparently they are many, many times faster.

I think that depends how fast the camera can read/write. On my 40D (which I expect to have better read/write speeds than the entry level cameras), the difference over my the Sandisk Extreme III card I have, is marginal. Myabe it reads faster in the card reader, but I haven't paid attention to that - I tend to start the copy and then go fetch another cuppa... :)

[bwana]

dpreview.com showed a tremendous speed increase with those Sandisk Ducati memory cards, but I can't find the link now. Apparently they are many, many times faster.
They are available at sacamera.co.za (http://www.sacamera.co.za/product/179/Sandisk-Compact-Flash-Cards.html)

:eek: Why such a lengthy process? What does a GPS datalogger do?It lets me geotag my photographs and if I want plot them on something like Google maps - http://flickr.com/photos/bwanarsa/2643413542/

[mercurial]

I think that depends how fast the camera can read/write. On my 40D (which I expect to have better read/write speeds than the entry level cameras), the difference over my the Sandisk Extreme III card I have, is marginal. Myabe it reads faster in the card reader, but I haven't paid attention to that - I tend to start the copy and then go fetch another cuppa... :)

I see. Perhaps I should just get a normal one for now. I could always upgrade later.


It lets me geotag my photographs and if I want plot them on something like Google maps - http://flickr.com/photos/bwanarsa/2643413542/

Aah ok.

[PostmanPot]

Some good prices here - www.orms.co.za.

[bwana]

I see. Perhaps I should just get a normal one for now. I could always upgrade later.Its probably the cheapest super wide angle lens you're going to get. Sure there is some barrel distortion but its a quick photoshop fix.

[koffiejunkie]

I see. Perhaps I should just get a normal one for now. I could always upgrade later.

I'm not saying it's not a fast card - it is fast. The performance difference just doesn't justify the price difference (at least when I bought it) at all.

But maybe the raw speed of the card is makes more of a difference on with the smaller buffers on the entry level cameras.

[mercurial]

Its probably the cheapest super wide angle lens you're going to get. Sure there is some barrel distortion but its a quick photoshop fix.

I guess for now it would be ok yeah. I'd probably wanna get an IS lens as soon as I can. I also wanna get one of those 70-300mm zoom lenses. orms.co.za and sacamera's prices are quite similar ATM. Then after I get those, I wanna get a 100mm macro lens but that's gonna kill my wallet :o

[mercurial]

I'm not saying it's not a fast card - it is fast. The performance difference just doesn't justify the price difference (at least when I bought it) at all.

But maybe the raw speed of the card is makes more of a difference on with the smaller buffers on the entry level cameras.

I understand. Probably would benefit a 1000D more than a 400D.

[marine1]

I have a 100mm Macro f2.8 FTW

[mercurial]

I have a 100mm Macro f2.8 FTW

Lol. How much did you pay for it? Around R7000-ish?

[bwana]

I guess for now it would be ok yeah. I'd probably wanna get an IS lens as soon as I can. I also wanna get one of those 70-300mm zoom lenses. orms.co.za and sacamera's prices are quite similar ATM. Then after I get those, I wanna get a 100mm macro lens but that's gonna kill my wallet :oCareful - photography can be an expensive mistress :) Consider buying your lenses from the states - you may save yourself a fortune.

[mercurial]

Careful - photography can be an expensive mistress :) Consider buying your lenses from the states - you may save yourself a fortune.

I was thinking the exact same thing now. I was wondering if I shouldn't just buy the 400D from B&H. I'm just concerned about customs etc... What do you think?

[bwana]

I was thinking the exact same thing now. I was wondering if I shouldn't just buy the 400D from B&H. I'm just concerned about customs etc... What do you think?Customs should just consist of VAT.

Keep in mind that (afaik and I stand under correction) while Canon lenses carry a worldwide warranty bodies dont. If something should go wrong then it will need to go back to the states if you want warranty support.

[marine1]

Lol. How much did you pay for it? Around R7000-ish?
R3000-00 from BHphoto

[marine1]

plus minus ;)

[mercurial]

Customs should just consist of VAT.

Keep in mind that (afaik and I stand under correction) while Canon lenses carry a worldwide warranty bodies dont. If something should go wrong then it will need to go back to the states if you want warranty support.

Oh I see. I think in that case I should probably just get the lenses from there. How is customs calculated? Do you maybe know?

[bwana]

Oh I see. I think in that case I should probably just get the lenses from there. How is customs calculated? Do you maybe know?Like I said afaik its just VAT so 14%.

[mercurial]

Like I said afaik its just VAT so 14%.

Oh ok.

[bwana]

Oh ok.I'll know for sure early (hopefully) next week.

[mercurial]

I'll know for sure early (hopefully) next week.

Great. Does that mean that you've purchased something from them? :D

[bwana]

Great. Does that mean that you've purchased something from them? :DYep - and according to the online tracking it's been "WAITING FOR CLEARANCE" in Jnb since this morning. :mad:

[mercurial]

Yep - and according to the online tracking it's been "WAITING FOR CLEARANCE" in Jnb since this morning. :mad:

Eish. What did you get and how much did it cost if you don't mind me asking...?

[bwana]

Eish. What did you get and how much did it cost if you don't mind me asking...?Canon 16-35mm f/2.8L II (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/reviews/Canon-EF-16-35mm-f-2.8-L-II-USM-Lens-Review.aspx) - I wont know how much until customs gets through with it. :o

[mercurial]

Canon 16-35mm f/2.8L II (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/reviews/Canon-EF-16-35mm-f-2.8-L-II-USM-Lens-Review.aspx) - I wont know how much until customs gets through with it. :o

Nice. I really can't wait to get this camera now. The thing is, I need to get myself some filters for my telescope as well and that's gonna set me back about R3000. So ATM, I'm not sure which to get first.

[Wynsam]

Canon 16-35mm f/2.8L II (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/reviews/Canon-EF-16-35mm-f-2.8-L-II-USM-Lens-Review.aspx) - I wont know how much until customs gets through with it. :o

Sweet buy. I am jealous.

[bwana]

Sweet buy. I am jealous.Thanks :) I got a lot of good use out of the kit lens but I've found myself needing something just a bit better so I bit the bullet.

I just called up the courier and apparently :rolleyes: they've been trying to get ahold of me to sign some importers papers or something so it will be a few more days before I get my paws on it. :o

[Wynsam]

Matches up nicely with your planned full frame ideas. I am eyeing out a KM 28 -75 f2.8 as my next purchase. Its an older school non HSM type lens but should not hurt as badly as the newer ones.

[bwana]

Matches up nicely with your planned full frame ideas. I am eyeing out a KM 28 -75 f2.8 as my next purchase. Its an older school non HSM type lens but should not hurt as badly as the newer ones.28-75 - nice versatile range. If I hadn't had a need for a super wide I would have gone for something similar myself.

I wish there was someplace here that rented lenses but I guess there isn't a pressing need atm.

[koffiejunkie]

Matches up nicely with your planned full frame ideas. I am eyeing out a KM 28 -75 f2.8 as my next purchase. Its an older school non HSM type lens but should not hurt as badly as the newer ones.

KM?

[Wynsam]

Minolta became Konica Minolta(KM) and then Sony bought them out.

[koffiejunkie]

Aah. I didn't know the Camera gear ever got the Konica part of the name.

[Wynsam]

Was a short period of time, during which the digital bodies appeared for the first time as far as I am aware. The KM 5D, and the KM 7D.

[koffiejunkie]

I used to like Konica's regular 200 ISO negative film - seemed to get consistently nice colours from it.

[bwana]

I've got a couple Minolta lenses sitting on a shelf from an old 35mm my mother donated last time she was here.

[mercurial]

Ok, so I went to Makro to have a feel for the 400D. I must say... it's a beautiful camera :D
But... I was quite disappointed that it doesn't have Live View :(

[koffiejunkie]

get a 40D man! You get live view *and* a pentamirror viewfinder (slightly larger, and brighter than on the 400D) :D

[mercurial]

get a 40D man! You get live view *and* a pentamirror viewfinder (slightly larger, and brighter than on the 400D) :D

I would love to, but R13995 (http://www.orms.co.za/product.php?a=view&product=1121) is quite a jump from R6600 :(
I'd have to save up a few months :(

[bwana]

Ok, so I went to Makro to have a feel for the 400D. I must say... it's a beautiful camera :D
But... I was quite disappointed that it doesn't have Live View :(If it's important the 450D and 1000D do iirc.

[mercurial]

If it's important the 450D and 1000D do iirc.

Yeah. If it were between those two then I'd rather go for the 450D. It will have to wait a bit until I can make a conclusive decision.

[koffiejunkie]

I would love to, but R13995 (http://www.orms.co.za/product.php?a=view&product=1121) is quite a jump from R6600 :(
I'd have to save up a few months :(

Hence the big smiley next to my comment ;)

BTW, you're nuts if you buy from orms. Here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-450D-18-55mm-IS-55-250mm-IS-4GB-Bat-Wty-Gift-ACKD_W0QQitemZ130240834988QQihZ003QQcategoryZ31388 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem) is the 40D + 18-55mm IS kit lens for R 7,909. Here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/518570-REG/Canon_1901B017_EOS_40D_SLR_Digital.html) is the 40D + 28-135mm for R 9,083. And here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/531271-REG/Canon_1901B010_EOS_40D_SLR_Digital.html) is the 40D + 17-85mm for R 11,733.

[mercurial]

Hence the big smiley next to my comment ;)

BTW, you're nuts if you buy from orms. Here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-450D-18-55mm-IS-55-250mm-IS-4GB-Bat-Wty-Gift-ACKD_W0QQitemZ130240834988QQihZ003QQcategoryZ31388 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem) is the 40D + 18-55mm IS kit lens for R 7,909. Here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/518570-REG/Canon_1901B017_EOS_40D_SLR_Digital.html) is the 40D + 28-135mm for R 9,083. And here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/531271-REG/Canon_1901B010_EOS_40D_SLR_Digital.html) is the 40D + 17-85mm for R 11,733.

Holy crap that's cheap! If I get this, I'm just concerned about customs etc... :(
Is this brand new or 2nd hand WRT to the first link?

[greg_SA]

Hence the big smiley next to my comment ;)

BTW, you're nuts if you buy from orms. Here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-450D-18-55mm-IS-55-250mm-IS-4GB-Bat-Wty-Gift-ACKD_W0QQitemZ130240834988QQihZ003QQcategoryZ31388 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem) is the 40D + 18-55mm IS kit lens for R 7,909. Here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/518570-REG/Canon_1901B017_EOS_40D_SLR_Digital.html) is the 40D + 28-135mm for R 9,083. And here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/531271-REG/Canon_1901B010_EOS_40D_SLR_Digital.html) is the 40D + 17-85mm for R 11,733.

AFAIK, the warranty is not international on the camera bodies... so you may have the hassle of shipping the camera back overseas for a claim. But then again, it is a HUGE savings... still have to include VAT and shipping.

[mercurial]

Shipping is cheap. Around $86.

[BigAl-sa]

AFAIK, the warranty is not international on the camera bodies... so you may have the hassle of shipping the camera back overseas for a claim. But then again, it is a HUGE savings... still have to include VAT and shipping.I wouldn't chance it, rather buy locally. I've heard of (and had my own) too many hassles with the 40d - the QC on the 40d does not seem to be too wonderful. One oke had to send his cam back 3x before he got a replacement.

[koffiejunkie]

Holy crap that's cheap! If I get this, I'm just concerned about customs etc... :(
Is this brand new or 2nd hand WRT to the first link?

All three are new. The first eBay link is from DigitalRev (www.digitalrev.com). For some reason they're always cheaper on their eBay store. I can vouch for them - bought my 40D from them through their eBay store. The only downside to them is they don't ship to S.A., so you'll have to arrange courier or something yourself.


AFAIK, the warranty is not international on the camera bodies... so you may have the hassle of shipping the camera back overseas for a claim. But then again, it is a HUGE savings... still have to include VAT and shipping.

Correct, it's the chance you take. It was worth the saving for me.

[bwana]

Holy crap that's cheap! If I get this, I'm just concerned about customs etc... :(
Is this brand new or 2nd hand WRT to the first link?I would consider buying from an established brick and mortar like BHPhoto (provided you understand the risks involved wrt warranty) but UK or US ebay from here . . . not likely.

Customs will take their share (14% for VAT) and the courier might add on a handling charge (4% for UPS).

[mercurial]

I would consider buying from an established brick and mortar like BHPhoto (provided you understand the risks involved wrt warranty) but UK or US ebay from here . . . not likely.

Customs will take their share (14% for VAT) and the courier might add on a handling charge (4% for UPS).

Thanks. Yeah, that's the not-so-nice thing unfortunately. I have no problem buying abroad except I don't want to sit with a thing that might break at any moment and then I'm screwed :(

[Kalvaer]

I would consider buying from an established brick and mortar like BHPhoto Have you ever neen to B&H in the USA? My wife picked up some things for me last year when she went over and said she couldn't believe it. She gave the guy her order at the front desk. The guy checked that they had stock, typed it into the PC and it was all brought through robotically from the store rooms.

[bwana]

Thanks. Yeah, that's the not-so-nice thing unfortunately. I have no problem buying abroad except I don't want to sit with a thing that might break at any moment and then I'm screwed :(I learnt the hard way of the importance of having two cameras when I broke the screen on my locally purchased 400D - granted it really was the worst time of the year for it to happen but thats when I ended up getting the second one (which I did import from B&H). :o
Have you ever neen to B&H in the USA? My wife picked up some things for me last year when she went over and said she couldn't believe it. She gave the guy her order at the front desk. The guy checked that they had stock, typed it into the PC and it was all brought through robotically from the store rooms.I've been there but it was back in my college days (iow pre-robots :D)

[koffiejunkie]

Have you ever neen to B&H in the USA? My wife picked up some things for me last year when she went over and said she couldn't believe it. She gave the guy her order at the front desk. The guy checked that they had stock, typed it into the PC and it was all brought through robotically from the store rooms.

The robots are not what makes this place impressive - many places have those.

Walk into the store, take the elevator to the first floor and just get lost in camera heaven... Their second-hand section is bigger than any other camera shop I've been too. They have more tripods on the floor (individual models) than all other stores I've been to combined. Check this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3008/2541358370_e7aabc4b9b_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/out-of-my-mind/2541358370/)

Next time I go I will definitely take a few pictures.

[Kalvaer]

Walk into the store, take the elevator to the first floor and just get lost in camera heaven... Their second-hand section is bigger than any other camera shop I've been too. They have more tripods on the floor (individual models) than all other stores I've been to combined. Hmmm i think she just refused to tell me that part as she knew I would send her back :D.. or go on my own next time

[mercurial]

I made up my mind - I'm getting a Canon 450D :D

[bwana]

I made up my mind - I'm getting a Canon 450D :DIBIWISI :p

:D

[mercurial]

Lol ok. I just need to decide which I want more ATM - the telescope filters or the Canon camera. Just waiting for the bank to call me to get my credit card.
:D

[bwana]

Lol ok. I just need to decide which I want more ATM - the telescope filters or the Canon camera. Just waiting for the bank to call me to get my credit card.
:DAre you getting the camera locally?

[mercurial]

Are you getting the camera locally?

Yes. orms.co.za (www.orms.co.za) and sacamera.co.za (www.sacamera.co.za) both have the 450D with 18-55mm IS lens for R9000~. I can't risk the whole international warranty thing, so I'm getting it locally.

[bwana]

Yes. orms.co.za (www.orms.co.za) and sacamera.co.za (www.sacamera.co.za) both have the 450D with 18-55mm IS lens for R9000~. I can't risk the whole international warranty thing, so I'm getting it locally.Dont forget to insure it. When I dropped mine it was the insurance that saved my butt not the warranty.

[mercurial]

Dont forget to insure it. When I dropped mine it was the insurance that saved my butt not the warranty.

Thanks bwana, will do.

[mercurial]

A mate of mine just bought a Canon 450D on gumtree. He paid R5700 for it. Owner was upgrading, had the camera for 4 months. Brand new with reciept and everything.

Lucky bugger!

Damn! That's a good offer. Was it still in good condition?

[bwana]

Four months? He must have bought it the day it was released overseas. Seems strange that the guy would upgrade to it and never use it.

[BigAl-sa]

Four months? He must have bought it the day it was released overseas. Seems strange that the guy would upgrade to it and never use it.Some folks think you need the biggest and the best to get the results (and then their pics still look crappy :D).

[bwana]

Some folks think you need the biggest and the best to get the results (and then their pics still look crappy :D).I try to spend as little as possible on my gear. That way if the photos dont come out I can blame the equipment. :p

J/K - :D

[mercurial]

What's the whole USM thing? Is it some kind of motor that is part of the lens? What is the benefit of it?

[bwana]

What's the whole USM thing? Is it some kind of motor that is part of the lens? What is the benefit of it?Ultra Sonic Motor. They seem to be faster, quieter, and will often let you manually override the focusing without having to flip a switch.

[mercurial]

Ultra Sonic Motor. They seem to be faster, quieter, and will often let you manually override the focusing without having to flip a switch.

Oh ok. They seem to cost a whole lot more too.


Brand flippen new condition.

@ Bwana - strange i thought as well. Had the receipt to prove it was bought legit.

Lucky guy.

[koffiejunkie]

USM (or HSM/SDM/SWM depending on your manufacturer) is a definite plus, especially on bigger lenses. I find the lack of it on my 35mm lens (small and light) doesn't bother me at all, but on the 70-300 I can definitely feel its absence compared to the Canon 24-105L and Sigma 10-20mm

Worth the money on heavier lens, in my opinion. Especially if you intend to use any sort of focus tracking.

[mercurial]

USM (or HSM/SDM/SWM depending on your manufacturer) is a definite plus, especially on bigger lenses. I find the lack of it on my 35mm lens (small and light) doesn't bother me at all, but on the 70-300 I can definitely feel its absence compared to the Canon 24-105L and Sigma 10-20mm

Worth the money on heavier lens, in my opinion. Especially if you intend to use any sort of focus tracking.

I see. It makes sense. I guess when you're zooming at 300mm, there is a lot of "shake".

[koffiejunkie]

What do you mean by "zooming at 300mm"?

Yes, there is a little bit of shake, but that's more because my 70-300 is not stabilised.

[mercurial]

What do you mean by "zooming at 300mm"?

Yes, there is a little bit of shake, but that's more because my 70-300 is not stabilised.

When you adjust the lens to zoom in at 300mm.

[mercurial]

bwana, help! Not sure whether to get the filters for my telescope(and wait a week at best), or to get the 450D :confused: :o

[koffiejunkie]

When you adjust the lens to zoom in at 300mm.

You mean focus? You can't zoom in when you're a 300mm on a 70-300mm lens.

If you're wondering if he lens mechanics causes shake, the answer is no. It's silky smooth. Remember that 300mm on a 1.6x crop factor is really the same as 480m - the smallest movemets show up quite strongly in the viewfinder.

[mercurial]

You mean focus? You can't zoom in when you're a 300mm on a 70-300mm lens.

If you're wondering if he lens mechanics causes shake, the answer is no. It's silky smooth. Remember that 300mm on a 1.6x crop factor is really the same as 480m - the smallest movemets show up quite strongly in the viewfinder.

I think focus is what I meant yeah :)

[mandana]

hello gents

just a short note to say thanx a million for all the great advise i have gotten from this and other threads in here. i am also in the market for my first d-SLR and all the advice, hints and links here has made the research much easier.

now as soon as september rolls around i shall be making the purchase... dont ask me which one i settled on coz as soon as i think i have made up my mind i read something else thats sparks interest.... sigh

but thanks again and yeah i'll be back to say what i finally bought...

[marine1]

:)

[mercurial]

Found a new store that's really, really cheap -> http://benny.co.za/

[greg_SA]

Found a new store that's really, really cheap -> http://benny.co.za/

Their prices are good :) I wonder if they carry the Nikon SA warranty?

[Genius.]

i see the Nikon D40 is priced at about 5k. Will this price drop in a few months? Or is that not likely?

[koffiejunkie]

i see the Nikon D40 is priced at about 5k. Will this price drop in a few months? Or is that not likely?

As far as I know it's already out of production, so the ones one the shelves now are old stock. Waiting for it to get cheaper is a bit of a gamble. If they don't sell well, then I'm sure the price would drop even further, but if they're moving well, you risk losing out...

[Genius.]

As far as I know it's already out of production, so the ones one the shelves now are old stock. Waiting for it to get cheaper is a bit of a gamble. If they don't sell well, then I'm sure the price would drop even further, but if they're moving well, you risk losing out...

Ok. So they will just get rid of the remaining stock. I see the new one is out and is priced at just over 6k.

Is there really a big difference? Is it worthwile getting the updated model?

Thx

[koffiejunkie]

Which new one?

[Genius.]

Which new one?

Was in the mall and went to Kodak. They said that the D40 is discontinued and they are selling the D40X. Something like that. It was priced at just over 6k apperantly it had more sensors.

Not too sure on the other specs. So what do u think?

[koffiejunkie]

That sounds right. As far as I know the D40x are pretty much the same as the 40D except for the sensor being 10MP. But I thought this camera was replaced with the D60 a while ago and they kept the D40 as a budget option. If you can get the D40x for only a little more, it sounds like a good deal.

[Genius.]

Its R1500 more. Is that a little?

[koffiejunkie]

That said, I base my recommendations for the Nikon D40 and Pentax K100D (in low budget situations) on having spent a fair bit of time shooting with both. I can't say the same for any other Nikon.

[koffiejunkie]

Its R1500 more. Is that a little?

Only you can answer that. Is four more megapixels worth R1500 to you?

[Genius.]

No. I dont think so.

[mercurial]

I would definitely go for the extra 4MP. But then again, I would also go for the 40D over the 450D. Your choice.

[bennycoza]

Their prices are good :) I wonder if they carry the Nikon SA warranty?
Hi
At these prices not from Nikon SA.
Imported from Japan and come with an international warranty.

[mercurial]

Damn that was quick. How'd they find out we were discussing them? :confused:

[Kalvaer]

Damn that was quick. How'd they find out we were discussing them? :confused:Maybe they were already here.. just on another name :)

But I see they have my Evolt... So much for me saving money now:mad:

[mercurial]

Well, since they are here, I would like to point out that their "Shipping" link is not working.

[Kalvaer]

Found this pretty nice site to compare the different camera's

http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/camera/specification/compare.html

[mercurial]

Nice!

[Kalvaer]

Another one with some really decent info and more camera's to choice from

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sidebyside.asp

I'm being torn between the E3 and the E520 from olympus.. I hate this thread, its going to make me spend money!

[bennycoza]

Damn that was quick. How'd they find out we were discussing them? :confused:

google, was checking if sitemaps working yet (not) and this thread came up.

shipping link fixed thanks.

shipping is free, though not shipping insurance, optional but recommended.

[mercurial]

Another one with some really decent info and more camera's to choice from

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sidebyside.asp

I'm being torn between the E3 and the E520 from olympus.. I hate this thread, its going to make me spend money!

Lol. Why don't you go for a Canon? I'm curious :p

[mercurial]

google, was checking if sitemaps working yet (not) and this thread came up.

shipping link fixed thanks.

shipping is free, though not shipping insurance, optional but recommended.

Though so! Thanks. We may be in touch in the following weeks. What can you tell me about the guarantees?

[Kalvaer]

Lol. Why don't you go for a Canon? I'm curious :pWell it depends on which ones we are comparing. I'm a big olympus fan though.

If its the E3 then it would be against the 40D,
If its the E520, it would be against the 450D

There are a few reasons but check here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_eos40d%2Ccanon_eos450d%2Coly_e3%2Col y_e520&show=all

Most important though is I already have some Olympus lenses and the Flashes for them and I think the Zuiko lenses are much better quality (IMHO)

The E3 is more expensive, but also double the weight of the E520, yet still lighter than the 40D. But the E520 also has a really nice underwater housing designed for it (not sure about the canon models.. I haven't checked).
Then the E3 got the DIWA Gold Award and has the worlds fastest auto focuser. It also has a much wider ISO rating setting than the 40D or the E520... so I dont know what to do.

First I guess is to see if I can find the E3 in SA though :confused:

[bwana]

Well it depends on which ones we are comparing. I'm a big olympus fan though.

If its the E3 then it would be against the 40D,
If its the E520, it would be against the 450D

There are a few reasons but check here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_eos40d%2Ccanon_eos450d%2Coly_e3%2Col y_e520&show=all

Most important though is I already have some Olympus lenses and the Flashes for them and I think the Zuiko lenses are much better quality (IMHO)

The E3 is more expensive, but also double the weight of the E520, yet still lighter than the 40D. But the E520 also has a really nice underwater housing designed for it (not sure about the canon models.. I haven't checked).
Then the E3 got the DIWA Gold Award and has the worlds fastest auto focuser. It also has a much wider ISO rating setting than the 40D or the E520... so I dont know what to do.

First I guess is to see if I can find the E3 in SA though :confused:Will these lenses work on the 4/3 mount the E3 or E-520 uses?

[mercurial]

Aah ok. I'm a Canon fanboy :p

[Kalvaer]

Will these lenses work on the 4/3 mount the E3 or E-520 uses?As far as I know yes (with an adaptor).. just without the IS or auto focus.

I could be wrong though but if I go to canon then I know I cant use any of them no matter what

[bwana]

As far as I know yes (with an adaptor).. just without the IS or auto focus.

I could be wrong though but if I go to canon then I know I cant use any of them no matter whatSounds like you might lose AF and have to set the aperture manually. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Thirds_System#Disadvantages

[Kalvaer]

Sounds like you might lose AF and have to set the aperture manually. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Thirds_System#DisadvantagesI do that now anyway with my current lenses on my OM1.. so it will still "feel" the same, But I wont have to go out and buy a whole new set of glass. I'm really leaning towards that E520 with 2 lenses on benny.co.za

[mercurial]

I see Benny's warranties are international only. If I buy from them, I might as well get it directly at B&H for much cheaper.

[Kalvaer]

I have emailed Jel Corp aswell asking them for prices.. will see what they say.

EDIT: Skip that.. just got a reply back.. I have to speak to Etkinds in Sandton :(

[koffiejunkie]

Most important though is I already have some Olympus lenses and the Flashes for them and I think the Zuiko lenses are much better quality (IMHO)

Everyone thinks their chosen brand makes/made the best lenses ever.


But the E520 also has a really nice underwater housing designed for it (not sure about the canon models.. I haven't checked).

There are plenty. It's one of the things I looked at before I bought the 40D.


As far as I know yes (with an adaptor).. just without the IS or auto focus.

I'm assuming you are referring to Olympus film camera lenses, i.e. FF. Wouldn't the smaller 4/3 mount mean that the lens would sit further forward, i.e. you would possibly lose infinity focus?


I could be wrong though but if I go to canon then I know I cant use any of them no matter what

Apparently you can (http://item.express.ebay.com/Consumer-Electronics_Digital-Cameras-Accessories_Camera-Filter-Accessories_New-Olympus-Lens-to-All-Canon-EOS-Mount-Adapter-Ring_W0QQitemZ130220768869QQihZ003QQptdnZCameraQ20 FilterQ20AccessoriesQQddnZConsumerQ20ElectronicsQQ adnZDigitalQ20CamerasQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQptdiZ56 6QQddiZ945QQadiZ1349QQcmdZExpressItem). I don't know the implications though. Canon's EOS mount is fairly big, as far as I know it can gobble up just about any lens without running into distance issues. I'm definitely going to invest in a Pentax K-mount to EOS adapter - 50mm f/1.2 :D