Our constitution allow prisoners to vote ? [Archive]

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Gooku

04-03-2004, 07:43 PM

Why does our constitution allow prisoners to vote?

This is ridiculous,We have 181,000 prisoners .
if they unite their votes,they CAN elect 4 or 5 criminals into our parlimemnt*.
*(based on my caculation +-40,000 votes is required to elect one MP)

We do not have any political prisoners,We only have hardcore felons in our prison.

I believe if someone commite a crime.he should NOT be allow to vote while in prison !

Strobemeister

04-03-2004, 11:26 PM

i agree. the government probably organises rallies inside pollsmoor, lol. our tax dollars at work :D

Telkom - South Africa's Handbrake to progress.

ASF

05-03-2004, 09:06 AM

For sure, it's a ploy to win votes - makes you wonder though - are they that worried - in a country of 40 million citizens (not all voters I agree)...

mbs

05-03-2004, 10:45 PM

Whoa! Government is not the Constitution, and Parliament (which is the Government) is entitled to limit the right to vote, if there is a demonstrable justification for the limitation.

GOOKU is talking about the recent Constitutional Court ruling, I think. The ruling is the result of a case (*against* the Government and the election mechanism, the IEC) brought by NICRO on behalf of some prisoners who were sentenced without the option of a fine, and who were aggrieved at the loss of their right to vote.

Just as a matter of interest, the Constitutional Court ruling wasn't a unanimous one - I think 2 judges recorded differing and dissenting opinions. So... it's not a matter of winning votes, but instead a loss of face for Government, the way I read it.

But ja, I concur with GOOKU - there is something wrong with a system that provides those who have obviously rejected societal norms through their actions, with the right to vote.

The trouble is, there are people in prison who haven't yet been convicted, as well as those who are possibly innocent and awaiting appelate action, not just hardcore felons. It would be wrong to deny these people the right to vote, which is why Parliament passed an Amendment Act allowing awaiting trial and fined prisoners to vote.

I would qualify GOOKU's statement by saying if someone commits a crime **and is properly convicted**, he should not be allowed to vote while in prison...

Karnaugh

06-03-2004, 08:46 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We only have hardcore felons in our prison<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thats rubbish - statistics say that over 50% of prisoners in SA are there for petty crimes such as stowing away on trains. As well as those still awaiting trial.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research

Mux

06-03-2004, 11:19 AM

Quoting statistics out of context can be dangerous. Lets take for example: 30%+ of serious accidents a driver under the influence of alcohol was involved. Does this mean that it's more dangerous to be sober as in 70% of serious accidents sober people were involved?

Normally I don't like responding on political issues, but I do feel that murders, rapists and robbers have already show that they do not respect their fellow citizen and have misplaced judgement. We expect these people to have a say in who represents us? I feel sorry for those communities that live in the same constituency as the prison.

mbs

06-03-2004, 01:14 PM

Sorry MUX - this is not a political issue, but one that can be viewed as a human rights issue - it's got nothing to do with ideologies, party manifestos or populist doctrines; nor has it anything to do with Government policy-making, regulations or oversight monitoring. I think the Constitutional Court majority ruling was based on the basic human freedoms of association and speech, regarded as sancrosanct given our abhorrent past. Yup, I concur that quoting stats is dangerous - I'm reminded of the saying "There's lies, damn lies and then we have statistics...". Also, proven and convicted non-political criminals must lose their right to vote, *including* those given the option of a fine, in my opinion. Anyway, this is my last posting on this - even though off-topic, it really has nothing to do with MyADSL...

BTTB

06-03-2004, 07:59 PM

[:(!]Screw Politics.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

Karnaugh

07-03-2004, 04:15 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mux
 Quoting statistics out of context can be dangerous. Lets take for example: 30%+ of serious accidents a driver under the influence of alcohol was involved. Does this mean that it's more dangerous to be sober as in 70% of serious accidents sober people were involved?

Normally I don't like responding on political issues, but I do feel that murders, rapists and robbers have already show that they do not respect their fellow citizen and have misplaced judgement. We expect these people to have a say in who represents us? I feel sorry for those communities that live in the same constituency as the prison.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The comment I'm referring to (which I clearly quoted) was "We only have hardcore felons in our prison"

Whether or not my statistics are in context or even remotely correct, saying that everyone in prison is a murderer or rapist is unequivocal waffle. The fact of the matter is that they are in prison, and as such they have paid (or are paying) their debt to society and their lives are already ruined.

Do you believe that everyone who isn’t in prison also aren’t criminals? Yet they can vote?

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research

microfast

07-03-2004, 06:14 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Karnaugh
Do you believe that everyone who isn’t in prison also aren’t criminals? Yet they can vote?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This are the truth - Mugabe voted in the Zim election [;)]

antowan

08-03-2004, 06:28 PM

Hello

Well, it has got a lot to do with the votes. Who do you think the convicts will vote for? Three guesses and the last two don't count... [;)]

These convicts all have family who want them to be freed. Thus 181000 times 2 or 3 makes a nice contribution to the voting population of a specified party...

Cheers
Ant

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous

candykiller

10-03-2004, 01:54 PM

Ya prisoners can vote ... but our fellow Zaffas out in the uk and other parts o europe are not allowed to ...

sick comunist country we live in.

BTTB

10-03-2004, 02:13 PM

What I can never understand about the prison system.
They try and make the prisoners stay as comfortable as possible. Some poor people are better off in prison, because he gets 3 meals a day, a bed and TV. And now he can vote aswell.
Prisoners used to have to go and till the soil in the veg patch so that they could feed themselves. Now they dont even do that. Although they have no freedom in prison, its like a cramped hotel and you dont have to pay the bill.

Perhaps if you have no food, accomadation or money one day, you should commit a crime and get put in prison as you would be better off. You can even do your studies while doing time. Perhaps this is why the prisons are overfull.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

candykiller

10-03-2004, 02:21 PM

Prison sounds good!!!!! [:D]

Where do i sign up ????

microfast

10-03-2004, 03:35 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by candykiller
Prison sounds good!!!!! [:D]

Where do i sign up ????
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is how we do it :

You burgle my house, I video tape you in action (your fingerprints are not good enough).

I triple claim on insurance and get BTTB to supply me with stolen goods.

If we continue the cycle at least 10% [:D] of all myadsl members will vote in comfort with 3 free meals a day.

lewstherin

10-03-2004, 04:48 PM

Sounds like a sure way into government [;)]

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

candykiller

11-03-2004, 03:30 PM

Coup Coup :)

lol we get into prison then take over the country [:D]