Botcott Dial-a-Nerd

[Kaiser]

A family friend took her PC to them to get something done (hardware related). When she got it back she noticed that Office was missing and when she queried it with them, they told her that they had to delete it because it was 'illegal'.

As a result, she couldn't work for at least a week or so afterwards. It is NOT their place to inflict their anti-piracy cr@p on other people. If someone takes a machine to be repaired, then that is what they must do and nothing else. I'm not sure exactly which branch it was, but it's in Cape Town.

I'm just pointing this out so hopefully everyone here will never use them again, and tell your friends/family likewise. I will also be reporting it on hellopeter. Dial-a-Nerd; this will be the most expensive few hundred Rand you've ever made. :mad:

[The_Librarian]

Why not just use OpenOffice 3?

[DJ...]

Botcots - where young bots go when they get tired...

[gifs]

If the software was indeed pirated then I applaud them for taking those steps.

If someone takes in a car for a service, and the garage realises it is a stolen vehicle, would you blame them for informing the police?

[Pr⊕phet]

A family friend took her PC to them to get something done (hardware related). When she got it back she noticed that Office was missing and when she queried it with them, they told her that they had to delete it because it was 'illegal'.

As a result, she couldn't work for at least a week or so afterwards. It is NOT their place to inflict their anti-piracy cr@p on other people. If someone takes a machine to be repaired, then that is what they must do and nothing else. I'm not sure exactly which branch it was, but it's in Cape Town.

I'm just pointing this out so hopefully everyone here will never use them again, and tell your friends/family likewise. I will also be reporting it on hellopeter. Dial-a-Nerd; this will be the most expensive few hundred Rand you've ever made. :mad:

technically if you didn't buy the software you stole it and it was never actually yours to begin with. If only this was the standard there will be allot less piracy, fortunately for her BSA was not involved.

[ToxicBunny]

that's v shakey ground for them to be on... How do they prove the user was aware of the illegal status of the software and also what are they doing to come to that conclusion.


I was a techie for a few years and didn't waste time digging thru software registration details, I fixed the problem and delivered the pc back to the user

[Kaiser]

Why not just use OpenOffice 3?

I reccomended that to her, but that's not the problem - it's the principle.

How can you possibly compare pirated software to a stolen car? Keep your k*k to yourself! It's NOT their place to interfere with something that doesn't concern them. And as for the BSA... don't waste my time.

I've taken my warez-full PC to Computer Mania many times for service and they NEVER do this.

[Pooky]

Damn I would be sooooo angry if they deleted ANYTHING from my computer.

I hope you make a fuss.

[gifs]

I reccomended that to her, but that's not the problem - it's the principle.

How can you possibly compare pirated software to a stolen car? Keep your k*k to yourself! It's NOT their place to interfere with something that doesn't concern them. And as for the BSA... don't waste my time.

I've taken my warez-full PC to Computer Mania many times for service and they NEVER do this.

Of course it can be compared, piracy is illegal, just like stealing a car!

If you see someone stealing something and you ignore it you are just as guilty.

If you cannot afford to buy it, that's your problem, there are free alternatives.

[AcidRaZor]

the company would be liable for the pirated software if bsa raided them. Dont pirate

[Zenbaas]

Of course it can be compared, piracy is illegal, just like stealing a car!

If you see someone stealing something and you ignore it you are just as guilty.

If you cannot afford to buy it, that's your problem, there are free alternatives.

There are Free Cars...:eek: Where...? :rolleyes:

[gifs]

The fact that your friend couldn't work for a week, implies that she uses it for generating an income, which makes it even worse.

[Kaiser]

The fact that your friend couldn't work for a week, implies that she uses it for generating an income, which makes it even worse.

I said keep your draconian opinions to yourself. Lets not have this turn into a piracy debate; the issue is the invasion of privacy.

[gifs]

I said keep your draconian opinions to yourself. Lets not have this turn into a piracy debate; the issue is the invasion of privacy.

The reason for me bringing it up, is that most public forums would frown upon discussions involving illegal activities, and I am sure this one should be the same.

So you rather keep your illegal activities to yourself.

[Kaiser]

The reason for me bringing it up, is that most public forums would frown upon discussions involving illegal activities, and I am sure this one should be the same.

So you rather keep your illegal activities to yourself.

Everyone has pirated software on their machines. It's just a part of the 'digital culture'. I really don't want to argue.

If I go to someone's house to work on say, the plumbing and I see drugs there, I keep it to myself! I'm there to do a job and I do it, nothing else!

Regardless of what you think, I will make sure Dial a Nerd loses a lot of business because of this.

[supersunbird]

Said companies don't guarantee your data...

Backups! Backups! Backups! Even of your pirated software ;)

[gifs]

Seems like you have your knife in for IT companies, first promoting piracy and then taking on an IT company because they did something about it.

[Kaiser]

Every other worthwhile PC place I go to asks me if my software is original, and if not so they know to back up the actual program files. No bull****!

[Kaiser]

Seems like you have your knife in for IT companies, first promoting piracy and then taking on an IT company because they did something about it.

Go cry more.

[Pooky]

I support you in your quest to boycott DialANerd.

[DJ...]

Everyone has pirated software on their machines. It's just a part of the 'digital culture'. I really don't want to argue.

If you really don't want to argue then you wouldn't be making generalisations like this. I don't have a single piece of pirated software on my machine, nor music for that matter...

[Project X]

The reason for me bringing it up, is that most public forums would frown upon discussions involving illegal activities, and I am sure this one should be the same.

So you rather keep your illegal activities to yourself.

Ok if you took your car in for repairs and they threw away your mp3 CD saying its illegal,wouldn't you mind that? How do they know its not a compilation from the originals?
Ok besides that, at what point do they have the right to just deelete stuff? The least they could do is advise them to get originals NOT JUST DELETE IT!!! and WHAT WHERE THEY DOING GOING THROUGH IT IN THE !ST PLACE??????:confused:

[Kaiser]

If you really don't want to argue then you wouldn't be making generalisations like this. I don't have a single piece of pirated software on my machine, nor music for that matter...

*Tips hat to Pooky*

[nocilah]

*Botcott* broke me. :D

[DJ...]

*Tip hat to Pooky*

Er WTF!? :confused:

[.Froot.]

Everyone has pirated software on their machines. It's just a part of the 'digital culture'. I really don't want to argue.

Not true... :)

[bekdik]

I said keep your draconian opinions to yourself. Lets not have this turn into a piracy debate; the issue is the invasion of privacy.

Sounds more like invasion of piracy ...

[Hosehead]

That's pretty F*ing disgusting of Dial-a-Nerd.

Thanks for the heads up. I sure as hell won't ever be using them and I don't condone piracy but I do stand for the principle of "Don't fu*k with my stuff thank you very much"

[Blue]

Boohoo they deleted her warez. It really shouldn't take more than a couple of days to get another 'free' copy unless she's a friendless godforsaken soul with no internet.

This reminds me of the new anti piracy measures which microsoft have implemented which turns the screens off of computers with illegally obtained windows. This caused a huge uproar in China because all the warez using asians(probably the whole nation) felt microsoft was in the wrong...

[Zenbaas]

That's pretty F*ing disgusting of Dial-a-Nerd.

Thanks for the heads up. I sure as hell won't ever be using them and I don't condone piracy but I do stand for the principle of "Don't fu*k with my stuff thank you very much"

Lol...

[fskmh]

If the software was indeed pirated then I applaud them for taking those steps.

If someone takes in a car for a service, and the garage realises it is a stolen vehicle, would you blame them for informing the police?

If I follow that analogy I should be able to upgrade or service my car by downloading a patch :confused:.

[fskmh]

I'm still missing the part where Dial a Nerd figured out the software was pirated. Did they check to see if the serial was on a list or something? I thought that was SP3's job :p:D.

[Kaiser]

I'm still missing the part where Dial a Nerd figured out the software was pirated. Did they check to see if the serial was on a list or something? I thought that was SP3's job :p:D.

I have no idea how they did it, but it just goes to show how much time they probably spent doing it. Time that they probably billed her for!

[chickenbeef]

Both of you are wrong, you should not have pirated software and dial a nerd should not have invaded your privacy, so AFAIK it cancels out, now just go get yourself a COPY of office 2k7 and never go to dial a nerd again.

[SYNERGY]

Every other worthwhile PC place I go to asks me if my software is original, and if not so they know to back up the actual program files. No bull****!

BullSh*t. We have a computer store for the past 10 Years. Any reputable store will not delete your warez, but will not backup up your pirated software, and if by any chance come across child porno- will report you.
Grow up. Its risky these days to even repair your PC if it has pirated Windows as the store is liable.

And to backup program files,it is not just a case of copy and paste:rolleyes:
You need to backup reg entries, recreate services, which is not worth the effort.

Name any of those "worthwhile" places, the BSA, closed about 10 stores or more this year in Durban alone, along with a fine of R100 000.

And she lost her ability to work? OpenOffice can do the same, which we reccommend to our customers.

[The_Librarian]

For a while we've been using Office97 at the house. Pirated of course. :o

I've made the switch over to OpenOffice last year, and is trying to avoid the use of commercial software by using open source or free alternatives.

As I'm using Smoothwall (an open source firewall) I'm helping people with it as this is my way of returning payment to the Open Source movement. It balances out.

Of course I'm still using Windows on my laptop, and my wife's laptops - they have valid winders licences, but I also use OpenSuSE whenever I want to.

[fskmh]

Both of you are wrong, you should not have pirated software and dial a nerd should not have invaded your privacy, so AFAIK it cancels out, now just go get yourself a COPY of office 2k7 and never go to dial a nerd again.

I'm wrong? Oh noes :(.
No thanks, I'll continue using OOo and posting happily from my GNU/Linux PC.

[The_Librarian]

Prefer OOo v3.x above that bloated junk they call Office2k7...

I'm using OOo 3 at home, and Office2k7 at work ... the PC's at home is lower-specced than the work's PC - yet Orifice2k7 runs slower than OOo 3... OOo3 on the work's PC outperforms Orifice2k7...

[phiber]

It is unethical for them to go through your PC and you can most probably find someone to report them to. With regards their rebuttal of you using illegal Microsoft Office, since they deleted it, and the fact that Microsoft is highly unlikely to pursue a remote case for one license in South Africa, you can probably stir up a lot of trouble for them.

After saying that i must admit Pirating software is no good, also pirating software and then using it to make a profit is sacrilege!

Anyways I will not use dial-a-nerd either as they this is truly unethical behavior. They have no right to sift through your PC looking for illegal copies of anything. On-top of this, how did they know it was illegal?? How do you check that a copy of office is illegal, i would really like to know!

[daveza]

As I see it this is just wrong.

If your pc goes in for repair it is not the providers job to go through your software to ascertain its legality.

Apart from deleting ' illegal ' software should they then check every mp3 to see whether it was legitimately obtained - and how would they know anyway.

Should they check every avi and decide whether it is your own copy or one downloaded ?

When Microsoft detects unlicenced software it does not immediately delete it. It gives you the option of legalising it - did D A N offer this option ?

If this was my pc I would have lost my blob !

If the truth be told, someone stuffed up and this sounds like their way of avoiding the fallout.

[phiber]

Maybe daveza is correct. You should contact some1 in management at dial-a-nerd. Push them, see what they say. Threaten to report them, as an unethical business.

[BigChop]

The problem is that you cannot take any action against them. They may have been wrong in deleting the pirate software, but you have no legal recourse against them, as you would have to admit to software piracy.

Not kosher to delete a customers software.

[phiber]

Yea but even if you admit to it, microsoft have to come here to sue you. I doubt that is going to happen.

BTW I am not saying you are right with pirated software, I'm just saying they are more wrong!

[Grouter]

Everyone has pirated software on their machines. It's just a part of the 'digital culture'. I really don't want to argue.

Well I would like to argue. If this is a generalisation of pc users today, then I find it somewhat offensive. If it is a generalisation of MyBB members, then ditto, and doubly so. As DJK said, I have no pirated **** on any of my machines, not even a single dodgy mp3. Perhaps I'm just from another generation to those who think that just 'cos it's 'out there', it's yours for the taking. I agree with your wish that this thread should be about a privacy issue, not piracy. But I also believe that statements like that of yours above are offensive to many members and should be considered carefully before being made.

[Lino]

Hence another reason to be able to fix your pc yourself. Although I just want to know how did they know the software was dodgy>?

[Kaiser]

Hence another reason to be able to fix your pc yourself. Although I just want to know how did they know the software was dodgy>?

I do most repairs myself, only taking it in when it's something I really don't want to risk screwing up or can't handle myself.

[phiber]

I can't find anything online about how you can check if office is illegal. And again they have no right to dig into her registry!!

[Keeper]

Dial a Nerd is already in trouble as far as i'm concerned, if this gets loose.

[killadoob]

This is a shocking story if you ask me.

Down with dial a nerd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Keeper]

This is a shocking story if you ask me.

Down with dial a nerd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes, this will not go down with 80% of the computer poulation, their main source of income...

Search and Destroy FTL:mad:

Swallow the hand that feeds you, nevermind biting it...

[killadoob]

If you really don't want to argue then you wouldn't be making generalisations like this. I don't have a single piece of pirated software on my machine, nor music for that matter...

It is no generalisation, most people have some form of pirated goods on their pc. You get the few who don't pirate but not many people who are into pc's can say they have never used or had pirated goods on it.

It's like taking your pc in for a repair and they delete your entire mp3 collection, regardless if its legit or not, it's still wrong.

[PeterCH]

technically if you didn't buy the software you stole it and it was never actually yours to begin with. If only this was the standard there will be allot less piracy, fortunately for her BSA was not involved.

BSA don't go after individual end users usually.

Secondly, how did Dial-a-Nerd know that this was pirated software???
Did they check the username in the About screen and it did not match the customer's name? Did they charge the customer for this check? Was it even legal to begin with?

[DDV TECH]

They had no right to delete it, they had every right to report her. Same with the service station that was mentioned, they have every right to inform the police, but no right to confiscate the vehicle. And I would also like to know how they identified the software as illegal? If you have never used pirated software, then you are probably not in the IT industry.

[reech]

It's like taking your pc in for a repair and they delete your entire mp3 collection, regardless if its legit or not, it's still wrong.

Exactly - who made them copyright cop, judge, jury and executioner?

[S1ght]

K well this is unrelated :p but the 1 time I took my pc into inter-computers at randridge mall and asked them just to do a check up cause it was running like poo, I got it back and when I tried to play a game it was running a lot worse than ever before, eventually I found their idea of fixing it was unplugging my 1 hard drive and underclocking my cpu...

[arf9999]

What does it matter? Why is this such an issue? There was pirated software on a PC, now it's gone... boo hoo, wipe your nose and move on.




PS: You're not exactly shouting from the moral high ground :)

[PeterCH]

Well I would like to argue. If this is a generalisation of pc users today, then I find it somewhat offensive. If it is a generalisation of MyBB members, then ditto, and doubly so. As DJK said, I have no pirated **** on any of my machines, not even a single dodgy mp3. Perhaps I'm just from another generation to those who think that just 'cos it's 'out there', it's yours for the taking. I agree with your wish that this thread should be about a privacy issue, not piracy. But I also believe that statements like that of yours above are offensive to many members and should be considered carefully before being made.

Can you account for every MP3 on your PC? I mean do you have a CD for every MP3?

Do you not maybe have some shareware utilities on your PC you downloaded, installed, fixed whatever problem you had and then forgot about?

Have you ever Right Clicked "Save Picture As..." over a pretty picture to use it as wallpaper or to forward it onto someone?

Ever copy-pasted text from websites without first obtaining their permission?

Do you maybe use Winzip and forgot to register?

Well then you've committed copyright infringement. And it doesn't mean that your AV program, Office, Accounting package and games are pirated either.

[Fudzy]

If you're one of those Microsoft partner companies, don't you get into trouble for not reporting illegal software?

[PeterCH]

They had no right to delete it, they had every right to report her. Same with the service station that was mentioned, they have every right to inform the police, but no right to confiscate the vehicle. And I would also like to know how they identified the software as illegal? If you have never used pirated software, then you are probably not in the IT industry.

Copyright infrigement and theft fall under two different laws.

Copyright infrigmenent is a civil liability offence. Stealing a car is prosecutable by the State. If someone pirates some weird Swedish program and the company has no local presence, no-one is going to come after you - definately not the company - unless they wish to waste their time instead
of running a business. If you steal a car, it's a crime which was comitted.

Sure the owner could say he let you borrow it but then again the
software co could also refuse to file a civil suit against you.

[PeterCH]

If you're one of those Microsoft partner companies, don't you get into trouble for not reporting illegal software?

Will you not get into more trouble from browsing through the customer's
data? Why not read the documents to see if any illegal stolen company information isn't present and inform the employer too, just to make sure.

Microsoft does not make laws. They're not the parliament of the country.

[Kaiser]

Again, I don't know how they found out but I'll contact her tomorrow and maybe she knows.

[TheBossMan]

Firstly Kaiser.. Don't blame them when you guys are running pirated software which is wrong in the first place.


It also depends on what work they did on the machine. I am also working for a computer place. The office might have had a problem or the windows might have been repaired or re-installed only to find out when they re-installed office that it had a pirate serial or was cracked.

If it was me I would also not re-install the pirated program back on the pc. The customer can feel free to re-install it themself at home, if they want me to load office they can buy a legal copy from us.

The only way that the company did anything wrong was if they deleted you personal documents or pictures.

[DDV TECH]

Copyright infrigement and theft fall under two different laws.

Copyright infrigmenent is a civil liability offence. Stealing a car is prosecutable by the State. If someone pirates some weird Swedish program and the company has no local presence, no-one is going to come after you - definately not the company - unless they wish to waste their time instead
of running a business. If you steal a car, it's a crime which was comitted.

Sure the owner could say he let you borrow it but then again the
software co could also refuse to file a civil suit against you.

You missed my point, they had no right remove the software, but they have every right to report it, if they so wished. The comparison with a stolen car was not made by me, but was mentioned earlier in the thread.

[PeterCH]

You missed my point, they had no right remove the software, but they have every right to report it, if they so wished. The comparison with a stolen car was not made by me, but was mentioned earlier in the thread.

They had no right to know it was pirated. To know they would have had to check his registry or install some MS patch or something?

Or maybe the Copy of Office was registered to "Phrozen Crew" :)

[phiber]

TheBossMan, where do you work?

[bullfrog]

OK here's a better one for all those analogies that everyone seems to be throwing around, sticking to the car one.

What they did was the equivalent of you taking your car to a mechanic to get it fixed. The mechanic noticed the somehow that the radio was stolen. The methodology is irrelevant. So basically he takes out the radio and destroys it and returns the car.

Best course of action, contact the relevant anti-piracy agent.

Instead he decided to cover it up to cover his own tracks. He knows owner won't go to cops cause it's stolen.

Basically piracy is wrong I agree. If they claim this is their "ethical" action against it, then think again. They only covering it up and bypassing the law, making them just as bad as the pirate.

Also, isn't the law in SA on piracy a little vague in certain aspects? I remember hearing that having illegal copies of software isn't illegal in SA, but only distributing it is? I am unclear on this though, hence why I'm asking for confirmation from someone who knows?

[Kaiser]

Or maybe the Copy of Office was registered to "Phrozen Crew" :)

Lmao, but I can pretty much guarentee you that's not the case. She's not very tech-savvy at all and if the software was pirated, it's because she bought it like that. Many PC dealers sell their machines with 'illegal' software pre-installed.

[fskmh]

What they did was the equivalent of you taking your car to a mechanic to get it fixed. The mechanic noticed the somehow that the radio was stolen. The methodology is irrelevant. So basically he takes out the radio and destroys it and returns the car.


IMO the methodology is the crux of the matter.

How did they know it was pirated software? Did they at least phone the client and ask for the CDs before making this decision, or were they using it as an excuse to cover up some negligent action?

All the discussions about piracy etc. are moot until we know this.

[Kaiser]

As I said; I'll get hold of her tomorrow to get all the details.

But what about my previous post? If I go and buy my PC from |-|4c|<3r Computers in Brakpan, :p, preloaded with 'illegal' software, how should I be held responsible. We all know how many dealers do this. Basically most of them that aren't 'official resellers'.

[Smooth Criminal]

As a software developer I despise people who run pirated software. A lot of time, effort and stress goes into the development. What your friend is doing is the equivalent of using someones service and not paying them for it. If you want free then use open source software, there are plenty of people who don't mind coding for free (hence providing you with a free service).

And how can you state that you don't want people touching "your" stuff when you send it in for repairs? Pirated software is not your stuff in the first place since you never paid for it. Besides they might have had a legitimate reason for removing it, chances are that some dodgy copies of software from dodgy p2p sources may ship with trojans. Running a system scan on a system infected with a nasty little critter like Win32/TrojanDropper.Agent.DGO (for example, which targets exe files and creates havoc on your system) using a tool called Hijack This (among many) would reveal which exe files are being targeted, and more often than not it's those belonging to illegitimate software.

Sorry if you don't agree with me but I'd have to say well done Dial A Nerd. At least they got your friends computer back to her working again, and she hasn't been turned into a dyke in jail.

[Kaiser]

Great, you can applaud Dial a Nerd all you like. Perhaps you can stand outside their premisis and applaud them as they close their doors due to lack of business. And in these times that's something they can ill afford. All I want is an apology from them to her and to the IT community in general, and a promise that it will never happen again.

Dial a Nerd: committed to fighting piracy, committed to no business.

[PeterCH]

Its a good thing she did not have the Terrorist version of Microsoft Office. THAT would really have been illegal. :)

[PeterCH]

As a software developer I despise people who run pirated software. A lot of time, effort and stress goes into the development. What your friend is doing is the equivalent of using someones service and not paying them for it. If you want free then use open source software, there are plenty of people who don't mind coding for free (hence providing you with a free service).

And how can you state that you don't want people touching "your" stuff when you send it in for repairs? Pirated software is not your stuff in the first place since you never paid for it. Besides they might have had a legitimate reason for removing it, chances are that some dodgy copies of software from dodgy p2p sources may ship with trojans. Running a system scan on a system infected with a nasty little critter like Win32/TrojanDropper.Agent.DGO (for example, which targets exe files and creates havoc on your system) using a tool called Hijack This (among many) would reveal which exe files are being targeted, and more often than not it's those belonging to illegitimate software.

Sorry if you don't agree with me but I'd have to say well done Dial A Nerd. At least they got your friends computer back to her working again, and she hasn't been turned into a dyke in jail.

You're right that its wrong for some people to pirate software and deny authors' their livelihoods however what I find even more distateful and rude,
and in fact a violation of privacy, is when a company charged with protecting your data and repairing your hardware takes it upon themselves to delete stuff they believe is pirated. I call BS on that. How would they know it was pirated? Unless it states, laughably something in the line of "This copy of Microsoft Word is licenced to Phrozen Crew" there is no way they'd know.
Did they run her serial number with Microsoft and find it had been activated more than once already?

No -- it was NONE of their business. The matter of piracy is one between the software company and the user and is not a matter of criminal law, it wasn't
child pr0n or terrorist plans they found on the PC, this was software which
was not breaking any criminal laws, maybe civil laws but not criminal.

[Smooth Criminal]

Great, you can applaud Dial a Nerd all you like. Perhaps you can stand outside their premisis and applaud them as they close their doors due to lack of business. And in these times that's something they can ill afford. All I want is an apology from them to her and to the IT community in general, and a promise that it will never happen again.

Dial a Nerd: committed to fighting piracy, committed to no business.

You have some nerve calling yourself a part of the IT community and demanding an apology for not supporting your criminal activities. Your assumption is that they will go out of business just because you can bad-mouth them as you see fit.

Go picket all you want, then you can go to court and explain to the judge why you should not be charged for slander. I'd love to see you defend your stance by saying that it's because somebody tried to fix your computer by tampering with your illegal software.

Just for the record I have cached this thread locally (in case you decide to start editting bits). If RPM were to be presented with a court order from DAN to reveal your details then it would leave him no choice. Think about how far you want to take this because I don't mind taking DAN's side on it. Call me an @$$hole as much as you like, but I have great respect for people who abide by a code of ethics.

[PeterCH]

I'll think you'll find no sane magistrate would grant such an older. In SA we still have Freedom of Speech under the SA constitution. Posters are free to express their opinion and if the poster in this case has said it was unethical of the company in question to side with big business over their customer, there is nothing wrong with that. Come one...

[Kaiser]

Just for the record I have cached this thread locally (in case you decide to start editting bits). If RPM were to be presented with a court order from DAN to reveal your details then it would leave him no choice. Think about how far you want to take this because I don't mind taking DAN's side on it. Call me an @$$hole as much as you like, but I have great respect for people who abide by a code of ethics.

LOL! Do your worst. If you think I'm going to back down because some delusional nobody threatens me with legal action you've got a painful lesson coming. Go and play with Brian Gibello - perhaps your 'legal teams' can work on a case together ;)

[Smooth Criminal]

You're right that its wrong for some people to pirate software and deny authors' their livelihoods however what I find even more distateful and rude,
and in fact a violation of privacy, is when a company charged with protecting your data and repairing your hardware takes it upon themselves to delete stuff they believe is pirated. I call BS on that. How would they know it was pirated? Unless it states, laughably something in the line of "This copy of Microsoft Word is licenced to Phrozen Crew" there is no way they'd know.
Did they run her serial number with Microsoft and find it had been activated more than once already?

No -- it was NONE of their business. The matter of piracy is one between the software company and the user and is not a matter of criminal law, it wasn't
child pr0n or terrorist plans they found on the PC, this was software which
was not breaking any criminal laws, maybe civil laws but not criminal.
Ever heard of auditing software?

Apart from that, I'm not saying that they removed it just because it was pirated, I'm saying they may have had a legitimate reason for removing it, and warez crap is more prone to trojan infections. Have you read my post or did you just select bits and pieces that you felt would help support your tangent?

[Smooth Criminal]

LOL! Do your worst. If you think I'm going to back down because some delusional nobody threatens me with legal action you've got a painful lesson coming. Go and play with Brian Gibello - perhaps your 'legal teams' can work on a case together ;)
Where did you see me threaten you with legal action? I simply stated that I'd support DAN if they ever decided they'd like to take action against you.

[reech]

You have some nerve calling yourself a part of the IT community and demanding an apology for not supporting your criminal activities. .

Please don't call people criminals.



Just for the record I have cached this thread locally (in case you decide to start editting bits). If RPM were to be presented with a court order from DAN to reveal your details then it would leave him no choice. Think about how far you want to take this because I don't mind taking DAN's side on it. Call me an @$$hole as much as you like, but I have great respect for people who abide by a code of ethics.

Get a life.

Ultimately this is about a company not respecting someone's privacy (Do you like strangers poking about in your box? )- and shooting themselves in the foot. They could have handled the situation entirely differently - perhaps something helpful - like '...you know you could use open office...' or '...we can sell you office..'. But going and unilaterally removing software from a user's machine is a definite no-no.
I certainly won't be advising anyone take their PC to DAN in the future - they have no discretion or respect for privacy.

[Smooth Criminal]

Please don't call people criminals.

Using stuff that you didn't pay for which isn't free - sorry, criminals.


Get a life.

Ultimately this is about a company not respecting someone's privacy (Do you like strangers poking about in your box? )- and shooting themselves in the foot. They could have handled the situation entirely differently - perhaps something helpful - like '...you know you could use open office...' or '...we can sell you office..'. But going and unilaterally removing software from a user's machine is a definite no-no.
I certainly won't be advising anyone take their PC to DAN in the future - they have no discretion or respect for privacy.
Please read two posts above yours.

Yes I agree they may have handled it differently, but I think that Kaiser could have handled it differently too by voicing his concerns with them first before making public threats. And yes I'm not denying it would be wrong of them to go snooping around if they had no valid reason to do so.

[eitai2001]

For a while we've been using Office97 at the house. Pirated of course. :o

I've made the switch over to OpenOffice last year, and is trying to avoid the use of commercial software by using open source or free alternatives.

As I'm using Smoothwall (an open source firewall) I'm helping people with it as this is my way of returning payment to the Open Source movement. It balances out.

Of course I'm still using Windows on my laptop, and my wife's laptops - they have valid winders licences, but I also use OpenSuSE whenever I want to.

I've got a sealed original copy of Office 97 if you want ... for Mahala :)
I've also got sealed original Office 2000's :p

[sn3rd]

I've got a sealed original copy of Office 97 if you want ... for Mahala :)
I've also got sealed original Office 2000's :p

Any Visio? :rolleyes:

[eitai2001]

Any Visio? :rolleyes:

No ... but I can sort you out with Vissie ... R100/kg :)

[Kaiser]

Let us not forget the infamous 'Hackers and Crackers' by Zearle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeIjmvZZ_SQ
http://www.justsomelyrics.com/1120122/Zearle-Hackers-and-Crackers-Lyrics

Dedicated to you, Smooth Criminal. Read the the lyrics :)

[marine1]

Funny thing is that I bet if you went to any of those techies at DAN you would find them downloading illegal software, movies, series, music. The same goes for just about anyone on this forum but yet you get these guys who jump on their high horse. What double standards

[The_Librarian]

I've got a sealed original copy of Office 97 if you want ... for Mahala :)
I've also got sealed original Office 2000's :p

:D:D:D

Thanks, but I'm not interested in having that %@#%@% paperclip dancing all over my desktop :D

[TheBossMan]

TheBossMan, where do you work?


For a computer company in Richardsbay and no we don't have a DAN here the closest one to us is in Durban.

But they might have had a valid reason for removing it. Only to find that it's pirated once they wanted to re-install it. I will gladly take DAN's side if this goes to court.

You do you think stands a better chance the pirate... Nope don't think so.. :D:D

[AvOk]

You have some nerve calling yourself a part of the IT community and demanding an apology for not supporting your criminal activities. Your assumption is that they will go out of business just because you can bad-mouth them as you see fit.

Go picket all you want, then you can go to court and explain to the judge why you should not be charged for slander. I'd love to see you defend your stance by saying that it's because somebody tried to fix your computer by tampering with your illegal software.

Just for the record I have cached this thread locally (in case you decide to start editting bits). If RPM were to be presented with a court order from DAN to reveal your details then it would leave him no choice. Think about how far you want to take this because I don't mind taking DAN's side on it. Call me an @$$hole as much as you like, but I have great respect for people who abide by a code of ethics.

lol...please! you are accusing someone of something you are not even sure of!

like Kaiser said, what happens if she bought this laptop with the software on, how can she be held accountable! I have seen some pretty well pirated/copied Office products that most normal users would not even know is not genuine. Who decides makes these kind of decisions? Since when can a pc shop decide what is legal/illegal!!! Even if Windows says its illegal, it does not mean she is at fault...

[killadoob]

Actually pirating is not criminal until you start to make a profit off of it.

Get your facts straight before branding people criminals smooth.

[bekdik]

When taking one's machine to DAN, does one sign any kind of indemnity form which absolves DAN from loss of data and/or authorises them to reinstall the OS?

[.Froot.]

3. DAN shall, under no circumstances, be liable, either in contract, tort or otherwise for any damage or injury caused to the customer, its employees, agents or any third parties. Including, without limitation, any direct and or indirect or consequential damages, expenses, costs, profits, lost savings, earnings, interruption to business activity, lost or corrupted data or other liability arising out of or related to The Services provided by DAN or out of installation, de-installation, use of, or inability to use the customer's computer equipment, hardware, software or peripherals. The customer will, upon demand, indemnify DAN in respect to loss, damage or injury arising from the provision of The Services. DAN has no liability to the Customer for data loss or damage incurred in any circumstances whatsoever.

Confidentiality:

DAN will maintain the confidentiality of the customer's files and or data. DAN further undertakes not to provide any customer information to any third party, save in the event that it is lawfully required to do so. DAN reserves the right to refuse the provision of The Services for any reason. Including, but not limited to, the presence of unlicensed or illegal software and or material of an obscene or pornographic nature on a customer's computer. If, for such reason, DAN terminates The Services, the customer shall be liable for any charges incurred in respect to the time spent on site by the DAN technician.

From their T&C....

[AcidRaZor]

Everyone has pirated software on their machines. It's just a part of the 'digital culture'. I really don't want to argue.

If I go to someone's house to work on say, the plumbing and I see drugs there, I keep it to myself! I'm there to do a job and I do it, nothing else!

Regardless of what you think, I will make sure Dial a Nerd loses a lot of business because of this.

If you go work on someones plumbing and see them kill someone. Would you keep it to yourself?

Crime is crime. So you're an accessory to this crime. Something Dial-A-Nerd didn't want to be. So I applaud them for doing what they did.

[AcidRaZor]

FYI, she probably asked them to fix something on her machine software related. Perhaps her outlook didn't work anymore? So then when they tried uninstalling/reinstalling it for her they saw that the cd-keys were pirated, so couldn't do a reinstall.

[bekdik]

The T&C's as posted above seem pretty clear to me.

[Pitbull]

Kaizer i'm 100% with you on this.

The fact that you sent a machine with Pirated software on it to a Legit business is the fault here. Take it as a slap on the chin and learn from it. I for one will never send my machines to any company that has rules like this in place. Get someone you know that has a crap load of PC experience and let them sort you out.

[killadoob]

If you go work on someones plumbing and see them kill someone. Would you keep it to yourself?

Crime is crime. So you're an accessory to this crime. Something Dial-A-Nerd didn't want to be. So I applaud them for doing what they did.

So basically someone who has pirated office on their pc is in the same league as a murderer :p

Acid i think you need to go make another emo thread :p

[ghoti]

If the software was indeed pirated then I applaud them for taking those steps.

If someone takes in a car for a service, and the garage realises it is a stolen vehicle, would you blame them for informing the police?

Dumb analogy.

A better one would be, "If someone takes in a copy of a car for a service, and the garage realises it is a COPY, would you blame them for informing the police"

Silly programmed response. You should really think before you type and not believe every MPAA sponsored Playstation ad you read.

I also support this botcott! :D (Until I see a mandate from the South African government that gives them permission to remove alleged pirated software)

Ive noticed there are a lot of people with carrots up their asses in this thread. Chances are theyre all happy programmer guys. Tell you what guys... how about getting rid of your EULA`s, and taking responsibility for when your badly written code messes up computer systems? How about becoming responsible for what your product does? That would be worth cash.

Oh.. and before those carrot sniffers get all upset. I used FOSS :P I dont need to pirate software.

[Newb-lite]

if i see a crime happening i phone the police ... i hope they lock your pirating/stealing ass up next time.

[AcidRaZor]

So basically someone who has pirated office on their pc is in the same league as a murderer :p


Lol, no, it was in his response to finding drugs on the premises really.



Acid i think you need to go make another emo thread :p

I'll get right on it ;)

[killadoob]

if i see a crime happening i phone the police ... i hope they lock your pirating/stealing ass up next time.

I dare you to phone the police and say to them i saw someone installing a warez version of microsoft office on his pc, please come arrest him.

I guess if you knew anything about piracy you would know what the answer would be.

[bekdik]

Dumb analogy.

A better one would be, "If someone takes in a copy of a car for a service, and the garage realises it is a COPY, would you blame them for informing the police"

No. A better one would be "If someone takes a car with filed down registration numbers in for service"

[Bismuth]

I think that Dial-A-Nerd did exactly the right thing. They probably found out that the software was pirated while troubleshooting her problem, not by sneaking around her registry looking for pr0n. Did you ever think about that?. However, if they were snooping, then they should be taken to task for that, but not for removing pirated software. I am sure that DaN could prove what they were doing.

Also, the fact that she may not be "tech-savvy" is no excuse for running pirated software. She could easily have got it checked out by someone who is "tech-savvy".

If you knowingly run pirated software, and/or even have a pr0n stash on your PC, it would probably be a good idea to remove it before sending it to a third-party for repairs. If you can't do this, well, either take the chance, or fix it yourself.

Or, let me fix it, provided you have a nice stash of pr0n! :D

B

[Myrrdin]

If you go work on someones plumbing and see them kill someone. Would you keep it to yourself?

I'll be expecting you to take down every speeding cars details so you can report them asap. A crime is a crime after all and not reporting it makes you an accessory.

[ghoti]

If I was Microsoft I would be PISSED OFF AT Dial-A-Nerd. Its for this very reason Microsoft doesnt give "removal" power to PC techies. They dont see the bigger picture.

What Dial-A-Nerd have now done is taken a potential customer away from Microsoft and hopefully pushed them in the direction of Open Office.

Its pretty established that Microsoft would prefer you to pirate their product than use the competition.

So all in all.. thanks for helping screw Microsoft Dial-A-Nerd!

I know I cant trust people like this to have MY best interests at heart. I wonder if they went up to this old lady, let her know she had a pirated version, and offered to sell her a key or install the FOSS solution? Or did they just play vigilante with an old womans system?

[bwana]

Its pretty hard for me to comment without knowing a bit more detail. The OP was kind of vague on details - what was wrong with the computer? Could the OP's source be mistaken as to what occurred? Maybe Office was causing problems, they had to remove it, and weren't willing to become liable themselves by reinstalling unlicensed software.

We dont even have half the story here and already the lynch mob is forming. :rolleyes:

[Pr⊕phet]

Its pretty hard for me to comment without knowing a bit more detail. The OP was kind of vague on details - what was wrong with the computer? Could the OP's source be mistaken as to what occurred? Maybe Office was causing problems, they had to remove it, and weren't willing to become liable themselves by reinstalling unlicensed software.

We dont even have half the story here and already the lynch mob is forming. :rolleyes:


so what was the original issue here for the pc being sent in ?

[bwana]

so what was the original issue here for the pc being sent in ?Exactly. We dont know.

[ghoti]

Its pretty hard for me to comment without knowing a bit more detail. The OP was kind of vague on details - what was wrong with the computer? Could the OP's source be mistaken as to what occurred? Maybe Office was causing problems, they had to remove it, and weren't willing to become liable themselves by reinstalling unlicensed software.

We dont even have half the story here and already the lynch mob is forming. :rolleyes:

This is true. *hides the rope for a bit* *shuffles feet on floor and waits*

[WonderBob]

Actually pirating is not criminal until you start to make a profit off of it.

Get your facts straight before branding people criminals smooth.

It was mentioned that the lady could not do her work because of the removal of Office , so obviously people will assume that she was using it for work and hence making a profit.

So sorry, but get your facts straight before defending criminals.

[BigAl-sa]

Its pretty hard for me to comment without knowing a bit more detail. The OP was kind of vague on details - what was wrong with the computer? Could the OP's source be mistaken as to what occurred? Maybe Office was causing problems, they had to remove it, and weren't willing to become liable themselves by reinstalling unlicensed software.

We dont even have half the story here and already the lynch mob is forming. :rolleyes:
Well said!

[Slootvreter]

Botcots - where young bots go when they get tired...

HAHAHAHA! :D

[Slootvreter]

If the software was indeed pirated then I applaud them for taking those steps.

If someone takes in a car for a service, and the garage realises it is a stolen vehicle, would you blame them for informing the police?

That's hardly a comparison. :rolleyes:

[masticore]

Carpe Carpum

Sieze the fish (carp?) ?? :confused: :D

[Slootvreter]

Of course it can be compared, piracy is illegal, just like stealing a car!
If you see someone stealing something and you ignore it you are just as guilty.

If you cannot afford to buy it, that's your problem, there are free alternatives.

No it can't be compared. Sheesh.

[Pr⊕phet]

When i used to work the pits and pirated software was causing the issue we declined to support period.

[ghoti]

Sieze the fish (carp?) ?? :confused: :D

Have you seen that fish anywhere? I know its around here somewhere...

[masticore]

Y-e-r-s .... ah haha. /runs

[bekdik]

Its pretty hard for me to comment without knowing a bit more detail. The OP was kind of vague on details - what was wrong with the computer? Could the OP's source be mistaken as to what occurred? Maybe Office was causing problems, they had to remove it, and weren't willing to become liable themselves by reinstalling unlicensed software.

We dont even have half the story here and already the lynch mob is forming. :rolleyes:

Then surely the thread title is unacceptable?

[Slootvreter]

But I also believe that statements like that of yours above are offensive to many members and should be considered carefully before being made.

People should stop being so fukcing touchy.

[bwana]

Then surely the thread title is unacceptable?Is it? They OP obviously wants to boycott Dial-a-nerd . . . even if he's not exactly sure why.

[bekdik]

Is it? They OP obviously wants to boycott Dial-a-nerd . . . even if he's not exactly sure why.

Well, if he's not sure why, then people should be able to question his motives. :)

[The_Techie]

There are ways of checking whether Office is legal or not without digging through the registry. Most pirated versions are blacklisted on the Microsoft Update website, so they would not update.

[ghoti]

Well, if he's not sure why, then people should be able to question his motives. :)

I think he said he was getting the information earlier. :P

[killadoob]

It was mentioned that the lady could not do her work because of the removal of Office , so obviously people will assume that she was using it for work and hence making a profit.

So sorry, but get your facts straight before defending criminals.

Yikes i got PWNED haha ok this is a good point :)

[PeterCH]

I dare you to phone the police and say to them i saw someone installing a warez version of microsoft office on his pc, please come arrest him.

I guess if you knew anything about piracy you would know what the answer would be.

This is not a criminal offense. The POLICE have nothing to do with COPYRIGHT VIOLATIONS. Copyright violations are dealth by SAFACT and BSA.

Maybe SA is warped and confused and our understaffed police can take on
these duties but this is not the case in the EU or USA. In the US for instance the BSA does not use cops to do inspections. Lawsuits issued by the RIAA for music uploads have appeared in civil courts and not criminal ones.

I think people should read the DAN T&C and avoid them. Software repair guys should not be judge and jury as to what is legal or not - and software copyright does not fall under criminal law statutes anyway.

[bekdik]

I wonder why no DAN rep has posted? It's unlikely that no DAN person has read this thread.

[Pr⊕phet]

I wonder why no DAN rep has posted? It's unlikely that no DAN person has read this thread.

thats even if DAN even knows about www.myadsl.co.za :rolleyes:

[bekdik]

thats even if DAN even knows about www.myadsl.co.za :rolleyes:

genuine NERDS who haven't heard of myadsl?

Are you serious??? :D

[PeterCH]

No it can't be compared. Sheesh.

No because if you upload a copy of Mongolian Top 40 hits on your FTP site,
cops can't go arresting you. Someone from that company has to be present in SA and exact a civil lawsuit against you OR Mongolian Recording Industry Association needs to have presence in the RISA (SA equivalent). RISA is not
going to sue you for hosting Mongolian songs, and neither will the Mongols
sue a Mongol citizen who hosts SA songs on his site in Mongolia. That's different from you stealing a car in Mongolia or SA, either way Mongol Citizen or not, cops will come after you.

[Dolby]

I can't always justify R10,000 software on my R3,000 PC :/

Anyway - I once took my PC for repairs to BT Games in Northgate and they refused to touch it until I showed them the little sticker/barcode thing that comes with Windows.

I did - they photocopied it - and repaired - so all was cool. But - I've since lost that stupid barcode thing. Am I going to have issues for the rest of my life now? :/

[WonderBob]

Yikes i got PWNED haha ok this is a good point :)

:p yeah, dangerous to tell people about getting facts straight on a 8+ page thread

[PeterCH]

I did - they photocopied it - and repaired - so all was cool. But - I've since lost that stupid barcode thing. Am I going to have issues for the rest of my life now? :/

There is a link in Windoze, "Is this copy of Windows legal?"
they can click that.

[PeterCH]

3. DAN shall, under no circumstances, be liable, either in contract, tort or otherwise for any damage or injury caused to the customer, its employees, agents or any third parties. Including, without limitation, any direct and or indirect or consequential damages, expenses, costs, profits, lost savings, earnings, interruption to business activity, lost or corrupted data or other liability arising out of or related to The Services provided by DAN or out of installation, de-installation, use of, or inability to use the customer's computer equipment, hardware, software or peripherals. The customer will, upon demand, indemnify DAN in respect to loss, damage or injury arising from the provision of The Services. DAN has no liability to the Customer for data loss or damage incurred in any circumstances whatsoever.

Confidentiality:

DAN will maintain the confidentiality of the customer's files and or data. DAN further undertakes not to provide any customer information to any third party, save in the event that it is lawfully required to do so. DAN reserves the right to refuse the provision of The Services for any reason. Including, but not limited to, the presence of unlicensed or illegal software and or material of an obscene or pornographic nature on a customer's computer. If, for such reason, DAN terminates The Services, the customer shall be liable for any charges incurred in respect to the time spent on site by the DAN technician.

So if you have a subscription to PlayBoy, DAN will not serve you. I guess this could be defined loosely? What is obscene? A girl in a bikini? A naked model on a beach? Simulated 'se x' act? Real se x acts? Pics of your naked wife?
Video of you and your girlfriend in lingerie doing intimate things with you?

Something different.....

What if someone has a pic of their toddler in the bath? Oh the child molester!!!

Are these things super puranical DAN will not repair your PC for?

STUPID.

What if there is pirated software on your PC from outside SA, say non-English software or proprietory CAD, scientific software or video editing software they don't recognise.
Will they verify everything??? If they don't and allow pirated software through should DAN be sued then for allowing piracy or is it only Microsoft and Adobe software which is protected by DAN?

Questions.....

[bekdik]

@Peterch - if you are unhappy about their T's & C's, then it's your choice not to use their services.

But, if you do, then it's their choice to apply them.

[Hosehead]

Let's catch a nerd and see what goodies he has on his laptop. Bastards.:mad:

[The_Techie]

Let's catch a nerd and see what goodies he has on his laptop. Bastards.:mad:

By all means. I have Ubuntu, OpenOffice 2.7 (bundled with Ubuntu) and VLC installed. That's it :D

[Pr⊕phet]

genuine NERDS who haven't heard of myadsl?

Are you serious??? :D

seerriaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssss ! :p

[PeterCH]

@Peterch - if you are unhappy about their T's & C's, then it's your choice not to use their services.

But, if you do, then it's their choice to apply them.

No, I hear people defending DAN on ethical grounds. I'm putting their T&C to a little ethical debate here.

Secondly according to their T&C they should refuse to repair a machine with pirated softs. They did for the OP's friend though.

Using or not using DAN is another issue, but I certainly wouldn't if they're gonna query my programs and scratch around my HD. Disgusting actually.

[The_Librarian]

stick goatse, tubgirl or meatspin on your PC prior to sending it in.

will be their own fault for scritching and scratching around should they do it.

But, should somebody ask me to repair a PC or laptop, and I find kiddie pr0n on it, off to the cop shop it goes - I want nothing to do with that schitt.

The OP should clarify what is going on before the lynch mob gets out of control...

[ghoti]

Didnt Dial-A-Nerd rape their name from Nerds-On-Site? I remember hearing something about a Nerds On Site nerd who was involved with something that went wrong.. and started his own company, basically ripping of the name of the company that he worked at.

[The_Librarian]

Didnt Dial-A-Nerd rape their name from Nerds-On-Site? I remember hearing something about a Nerds On Site nerd who was involved with something that went wrong.. and started his own company, basically ripping of the name of the company that he worked at.

Haven't heard anything of this sort ever either... it's news for /me ...

[SlinkyMike]

We dont even have half the story here and already the lynch mob is forming. :rolleyes:

Dude, this is Africa - its how we roll :rolleyes:

Anyway, its obvious the OP knows he's wrong - that level of righteous indignation is as good as an admission of guilt.

Notice how he never argues that the software is legal - he brazenly admits that it is pirated then proceeds to blame everyone from unscrupulous PC merchants in Brakpan to the public at large for it. Sorry bud but were talking about the law here, the '...but EVERYONE does it' argument is weak sauce.

As for not being able to work without pirated software... OMG! Are we actually discussing this??? :confused:

Quite pathetic really and totally in line with the South African National Pastime: whinging and whining.

[ghoti]

Haven't heard anything of this sort ever either... it's news for /me ...

I heard it from a Nerds on Site person.

[daveza]

Let's leave the legal/ethical debate aside for a moment and look at the client-company relationship.

What is wrong in the way this was handled ?

No communication. The client arrived to collect the repair and was presented with the fact that the pc was now minus a major function.

At some stage someone failed to pick up the phone and talk to the customer.

"Mrs X - your MS Office installation is corrupt and we need to reinstall it. Can you provide us with the CD so that we can proceed."

If the facts are as per the initial post, this is equivalent to taking your car for a service, and on collecting it find they have removed all the tires because they don't have enough tread on them.

[Smooth Criminal]

No, I hear people defending DAN on ethical grounds. I'm putting their T&C to a little ethical debate here.

Secondly according to their T&C they should refuse to repair a machine with pirated softs. They did for the OP's friend though.

Using or not using DAN is another issue, but I certainly wouldn't if they're gonna query my programs and scratch around my HD. Disgusting actually.
Look there are two possible wrongs here:
1. DAN for possible snooping.
2. Kaiser's friend for using pirated software as a means of generating income.

To me, the bigger wrong is the second one. Agree or disagree, but DAN's course of action is closer to their T&C. By sending the computer in for repairs with pirated software installed, the client agrees that any consequence is entirely their own doing.

We still don't know what the reasons are for them removing it, so until we do then I won't call it snooping. I will however give them the ethical benefit as I see fit if they want nothing to do with pirated software. How they deal with it is of no concern to me (yes some may say that they could have handled it better), but pirated software is pirated software. There's no need to take a moral high ground and call for boycott action when you are not exactly innocent :)

[daveza]

Btw, Dialanerd was formed in 1998.

Nerdsonsite was founded in 1995 in the US.

[Garyvdh]

I agree she is in the wrong for using the pirated software. Worse making a profit from it. Equally bad when there are really good alternatives out there.

But... this company should only do the work they were hired to do. They had no right to take the action that they did. That amounts to playing judge, jury and executioner. No matter what their T & C says. Even worse... as you said.. there was no communication.

I have had plenty of clients come in with pirated stuff on their computers or tons of pr0n, games and viruses.

If I can fix the problem with a minimum of hassle, then good. When they come to collect I give them a verbal speech about the dangers of what they are doing and give them one of my Free Software DVDs.

If I can't fix the problem, then I offer to erase their hard drive and re-install from scratch. That gets rid of all the crap chop chop.

It is not my place to inform the BSA or Microsoft or whatever, unless it becomes a repeat offence. But informing the BSA that so and so has one illegal copy of MS office on her hard drive is pointless. They will just laugh at you. They only want the big fish. The corporate Pirates.

These dial-a-nerds have done their own reputation a disservice.

Edit: If you start going down the road of what should the client have or not have on their computer... it quickly becomes a slippery slope. Next thing it is changing their browser, removing Bonzi Buddy or all their Smiley toolbars... and they crap all over you for messing up their computers. And trying to explain to them why you should do all of this is a waste of time and money, they are not going to pay you any extra for that service.

[bekdik]

Look there are two possible wrongs here:
1. DAN for possible snooping.
2. Kaiser's friend for using pirated software as a means of generating income.


There's a third choice - I suspect that DAN took the easy way out and rebuilt machine from repair folder, and then found that the serial number for office wouldn't be accepted.

If correct, then what should have happened is that DAN should have told the client that rebuild is their preferred modus operandi and then asked the client to supply CD's so that they could reinstall additional software. When client says that they don't have the originals, then DAN should decline to proceed.

I suspect that the whole hullabaloo arises from DAN's failure to communicate their method of working, their T's & C's and the repercussions of all of these.

The moral here is that if you are repairing machines, make sure that your client understands that it's their responsibility to have a good backup before bringing the machine in and also ensuring that they understand that the machine may be rebuilt from scratch as part of the repair process.

[<moLe>]

bullk@k discussion

[PeterCH]

Let's leave the legal/ethical debate aside for a moment and look at the client-company relationship.

What is wrong in the way this was handled ?

No communication. The client arrived to collect the repair and was presented with the fact that the pc was now minus a major function.

At some stage someone failed to pick up the phone and talk to the customer.

"Mrs X - your MS Office installation is corrupt and we need to reinstall it. Can you provide us with the CD so that we can proceed."

If the facts are as per the initial post, this is equivalent to taking your car for a service, and on collecting it find they have removed all the tires because they don't have enough tread on them.

No, its like the Mechanic removing all the tires because they are counterfeit. The car went in for an engine tune up.

See the idiocy in this?

[PeterCH]

I have had plenty of clients come in with pirated stuff on their computers or tons of pr0n, games and viruses.



DAN says they don't touch people with pr0n on their computers. So you must be one unethical b-tard :) for tolerating peoples' pr0n habits!

[PsyWulf]

Well it's quite simple actually how they picked up it being illegal

Standard software including your AV,windows and Office is updated as part of every service. What happens when you try to update a pirate office? Anybody want to give a guess what happens then?

Admittedly removal was a bit far to go,by rule they have to refuse to work on it (Was employed by them at a time so I know)

The original CD's with keys for every piece of software on the PC has to be handed in or it isn't touched

[Garyvdh]

DAN says they don't touch people with pr0n on their computers. So you must be one unethical b-tard :) for tolerating peoples' pr0n habits!

To use your same analogy... that is like a mechanic refusing to fix someone's car because there is a nudie mag in the glove compartment.

As much as I don't like it, I can't dictate to people what they do with their computers. That would be an invasion of privacy.

but I think you are just being sarcastic no?

[daleenster]

Dude, you need to RELAX! They are a GREAT COMPANY. So be very careful how you handle this, I think your anger is getting the best of you.... and they are DEFINATELY not in the wrong... I applaud them.

[PsyWulf]

To use your same analogy... that is like a mechanic refusing to fix someone's car because there is a nudie mag in the glove compartment.

As much as I don't like it, I can't dictate to people what they do with their computers. That would be an invasion of privacy.

but I think you are just being sarcastic no?

With pron and stuff the rule is if it's displayed as background or screensaver the client has to remove/disable it

[PeterCH]

To use your same analogy... that is like a mechanic refusing to fix someone's car because there is a nudie mag in the glove compartment.

As much as I don't like it, I can't dictate to people what they do with their computers. That would be an invasion of privacy.

but I think you are just being sarcastic no?

Of course you're not a b-tard. Seriously, if DAN doesn't like peoples' habits,
they should shove off or maybe point it out when people sign up for their service. "We will not touch your PC if you have any content we find offensive." That could include Star Trek, Spock and Kirk slash pr0n or
it could be artistic photos from photo.net. To me that's retarded.
Not even churches (decent ones) condemn people like that, eg "We won't let you inside if you look at ETVs pr0n movies or have pics of Pamela Anderson."

To summarise, it's none of their business.

[BT6LW]

Got bored of reading the back and forth -


Issue was hard drive related.....

Surely they formatted the drive - restored data - used sticker on side of pc for windows license - and when tried to apply the office license (extracted key) - they couln't install -


I somehow doubt that they deliberately went and deleted it if the pc was working already

[PeterCH]

Well it's quite simple actually how they picked up it being illegal

Standard software including your AV,windows and Office is updated as part of every service. What happens when you try to update a pirate office? Anybody want to give a guess what happens then?

Admittedly removal was a bit far to go,by rule they have to refuse to work on it (Was employed by them at a time so I know)

The original CD's with keys for every piece of software on the PC has to be handed in or it isn't touched

Maybe they should have given the customer the benefit of a doubt and let the customer reinstall Office herself or asked for her disks. When she said she didn't have any they could have told her where she can buy Office or use OO.

Leave the stuff alone b-atches. :) Seriously, it's unethical and wrong.

[PeterCH]

Surely they formatted the drive - restored data - used sticker on side of pc for windows license - and when tried to apply the office license (extracted key) - they couln't install -


I somehow doubt that they deliberately went and deleted it if the pc was working already

Even then give the PAYING customer the benefit of a doubt and tell her that they we'rent able to restore because of the reason you gave. Tell her to find the disks and do a reinstall herself at home. If she has none, she can buy Office at most PC shops.

[Garyvdh]

With pron and stuff the rule is if it's displayed as background or screensaver the client has to remove/disable it

Ja, that I can understand. I would also refuse to work on that.

[AvOk]

Dude, you need to RELAX! They are a GREAT COMPANY. So be very careful how you handle this, I think your anger is getting the best of you.... and they are DEFINATELY not in the wrong... I applaud them.

lol --> nerd by any chance! :rolleyes:

[PeterCH]

Ja, that I can understand. I would also refuse to work on that.

What do you classify as pr0n. Would Jessica Alba in a promo pic from a movie be pr0n? Would a girl in a bikini be pr0n? Would a nude girl (but without any vulgar actions shown) be pr0n (eg not spread legged but maybe a profile pic)?

Some people would call all of the above pr0n.

[Garyvdh]

Of course you're not a b-tard. Seriously, if DAN doesn't like peoples' habits,
they should shove off or maybe point it out when people sign up for their service. "We will not touch your PC if you have any content we find offensive." That could include Star Trek, Spock and Kirk slash pr0n or
it could be artistic photos from photo.net. To me that's retarded.
Not even churches (decent ones) condemn people like that, eg "We won't let you inside if you look at ETVs pr0n movies or have pics of Pamela Anderson."

To summarise, it's none of their business.

Ja, that's what I thought you were saying. I agree.

But I guess it is pointless bandying about what happened in THIS case since we don't actually know why it was removed or how it was removed. Bit of an over-reaction on the customer's part. Mistakes happen, she could have

1) re-installed the pirate version herself
2) installed a free Office program
3) bought MS Office.

it is not a train smash.

[PsyWulf]

What do you classify as pr0n. Would Jessica Alba in a promo pic from a movie be pr0n? Would a girl in a bikini be pr0n? Would a nude girl (but without any vulgar actions shown) be pr0n (eg not spread legged but maybe a profile pic)?

Some people would call all of the above pr0n.

If it offends me to work on a PC I won't work on it,if every tech there shares the sentiment it'll be deemed untouchable? :P

[Garyvdh]

What do you classify as pr0n. Would Jessica Alba in a promo pic from a movie be pr0n? Would a girl in a bikini be pr0n? Would a nude girl (but without any vulgar actions shown) be pr0n (eg not spread legged but maybe a profile pic)?

Some people would call all of the above pr0n.

Well, I think my definition would probably be the same as yours, knowing you. But its not like I go looking for the stuff when I'm fixing a computer.

Its more of a case of is it in your face? Or has it contributed to the PCs problem?

[hawker]

Everyone has pirated software on their machines. It's just a part of the 'digital culture'. I really don't want to argue.



That was the most stupid statement I have ever heard. I don't have any pirated software on my machine, (its all open source stuff). Think before you write rubbish.

[PsyWulf]

Ja, that's what I thought you were saying. I agree.

But I guess it is pointless bandying about what happened in THIS case since we don't actually know why it was removed or how it was removed. Bit of an over-reaction on the customer's part. Mistakes happen, she could have

1) re-installed the pirate version herself
2) installed a free Office program
3) bought MS Office.

it is not a train smash.

Yeah,were it a legal copy (the pirate one could've stopped working due to a patch update so instead of leaving it was removed) you could hand it right back in for a free reload and some freebies usually for compensation. They generally try to keep the customer satisfaction high and always respond on hellopeter requests

[PeterCH]

That was the most stupid statement I have ever heard. I don't have any pirated software on my machine, (its all open source stuff). Think before you write rubbish.

So you're sure you never downloaded a Shareware app to resolve an issue then failed to register (buy) it afterwards? Not even once? This is what he means.

[daveza]

DAN reserves the right to refuse the provision of The Services for any reason. Including, but not limited to, the presence of unlicensed or illegal software and or material of an obscene or pornographic nature on a customer's computer

1) Porn is not illegal.

2) Patricia Lewis mp3's are obscene, so they must please be removed.


If, for such reason, DAN terminates The Services, the customer shall be liable for any charges incurred in respect to the time spent on site by the DAN technician.

So, work on the pc for an hour without being able to solve the problem. Then look for a porno pic so that you can terminate the service and bill them for fixing nothing ?


http://www.dialanerd.co.za/index.php/terms-conditions

I have a problem with SEVENTY SIX General Terms and Conditions loaded in the providers favour, and clearly designed to cover their posterior.

[bekdik]

I have a problem with SEVENTY SIX General Terms and Conditions loaded in the providers favour, and clearly designed to cover their posterior.

That's the whole reason for T's & C's.

[PeterCH]

That's the whole reason for T's & C's.

There has also been some pro-consummer legislation introduced recently.
Not all those T and Cs could be legal or binding.

[Pitbull]

WTF are you guys not understanding.

The fact that the Pirate Office was on the machine is not in question. She can download it again and install it in 10 minutes flat ffs. The fact that the office was Pirated also has absolutely fk all to do with the Turd, sorry Nerd that was suppose to fix the PC.

If he feels that the software is illegal based on his principles he should have phoned her and said to come fetch her machine as he will not work on it with a Pirate Office on it.

The fk'r in turn went and took action by deleting it just because :confused:

I can understand if he had to reformat the HDD and reinstall windows and not install office again. But if he was not suppose to be working on the sofware to beging with why the fk did he scratch on the machine and delete what he felt to be wrong ?

1. He should have refused to work on it from the second he saw it was pirated.
2. Should have phoned her told her the problem and asked her what she wants him to do
3. Offered to sell her legit Office if he needed to format the machine.

As for Porn and what not on my machine, if I send it in without clearing it then obviously I have no issues with someone stumbling on it. They have no right to remove anything from my PC without concent. PERIOD !

[bekdik]

There has also been some pro-consummer legislation introduced recently.
Not all those T and Cs could be legal or binding.

Dunno. Any law man care to comment?

If you sign a doc, like the one you sign at your car service people of choice, you lose a bunch of common law advantages. You need to delete all the paragraphs you don't like. Whether they will then accept your car is another question. If they do, then the amended contract applies.

I suspect that the same would apply here.

[PeterCH]

Dunno. Any law man care to comment?

If you sign a doc, like the one you sign at your car service people of choice, you lose a bunch of common law advantages. You need to delete all the paragraphs you don't like. Whether they will then accept your car is another question. If they do, then the amended contract applies.

I suspect that the same would apply here.

I suspect certain legislation is binding no matter what the T & C says.
You can't get out of not providing a 7 day cooling off period in your T & C for example or refusing to provide a warranty etc. I'm no law expert but I picked this up in various consummer articles in the press and the www.

[Asha'man X]

We had to use them earlier this year, to resolve a critical computer in the accounts department that kept randomly rebooting, and that I couldn't fix on my own, as I had run out of skills.

They charged the earth, but given their business model, it's understandable. I never signed any terms and conditions documents IIRC. I told the 2 techs that the data on that pc was critical, and that they needed to clone it beforehand. If all else failed, they had to return it exactly as it was.

They took it away, along with another pc, and did their tests. Came back, and said that after burn in's they couldn't find anything wrong. We accepted and paid them. I was talking to one of the techs, and he said I should get Hiren's Boot CD. I looked up later what it was, as I didn't know at the time. I was very suprised that he'd suggest it to me, as it's warez. I didn't ask him if they used it or not at the branch.

The problem came back eventually, so I had to transplant that computer with another similar model one. They moved the stick of ram on the motherboard to another slot, which normally is no problem. However, these Intel boards need the ram in the first slot for the Power management features to work. Otherwise the fans would run at full speed 24/7, and we couldn't monitor temperature or so on. That noise quickly got overpowering in that office, so I moved the ram back. Ran fine, until the reboots again happened down the line.

Anyway, I haven't made use of them since, mainly because of the price. I'm not sure about the whole row over software, but I can see where both sides are coming from.

[Garyvdh]

WTF are you guys not understanding.

The fact that the Pirate Office was on the machine is not in question. She can download it again and install it in 10 minutes flat ffs. The fact that the office was Pirated also has absolutely fk all to do with the Turd, sorry Nerd that was suppose to fix the PC.

If he feels that the software is illegal based on his principles he should have phoned her and said to come fetch her machine as he will not work on it with a Pirate Office on it.

The fk'r in turn went and took action by deleting it just because :confused:

I can understand if he had to reformat the HDD and reinstall windows and not install office again. But if he was not suppose to be working on the sofware to beging with why the fk did he scratch on the machine and delete what he felt to be wrong ?

1. He should have refused to work on it from the second he saw it was pirated.
2. Should have phoned her told her the problem and asked her what she wants him to do
3. Offered to sell her legit Office if he needed to format the machine.

As for Porn and what not on my machine, if I send it in without clearing it then obviously I have no issues with someone stumbling on it. They have no right to remove anything from my PC without concent. PERIOD !

relax, there are a significant number of us who agree that it was unwarranted. Now the ball is in her court to take it further.

[bekdik]

WTF are you guys not understanding.

The fact that the Pirate Office was on the machine is not in question. She can download it again and install it in 10 minutes flat ffs. The fact that the office was Pirated also has absolutely fk all to do with the Turd, sorry Nerd that was suppose to fix the PC.

If he feels that the software is illegal based on his principles he should have phoned her and said to come fetch her machine as he will not work on it with a Pirate Office on it.

The fk'r in turn went and took action by deleting it just because :confused:

I can understand if he had to reformat the HDD and reinstall windows and not install office again. But if he was not suppose to be working on the sofware to beging with why the fk did he scratch on the machine and delete what he felt to be wrong ?

1. He should have refused to work on it from the second he saw it was pirated.
2. Should have phoned her told her the problem and asked her what she wants him to do
3. Offered to sell her legit Office if he needed to format the machine.

As for Porn and what not on my machine, if I send it in without clearing it then obviously I have no issues with someone stumbling on it. They have no right to remove anything from my PC without concent. PERIOD !

unless he reformatted first, then discovered he couldn't reinstall office ...

as to consent, it isn't clear whether one signs something when handing the machine over. if you do sign, then you agree to the contract printed in very small print on the back.

[BT6LW]

Even then give the PAYING customer the benefit of a doubt and tell her that they we'rent able to restore because of the reason you gave. Tell her to find the disks and do a reinstall herself at home. If she has none, she can buy Office at most PC shops.

See, I am more likely to give DAN the benefit of the doubt.

I believe (might be wrong) that this is more than likely exactly what happened.... I think the OP is embelishing his story a little to make it sound more dramatic ...

e.g.

DAN: "We have managed to reload windows / restore data etc... however we could not restore office or find a valid key.

OP: "the ****ers deliberately deleted my pirated software .. rant rant rant"

[xrapidx]

A family friend took her PC to them to get something done (hardware related). When she got it back she noticed that Office was missing and when she queried it with them, they told her that they had to delete it because it was 'illegal'.

As a result, she couldn't work for at least a week or so afterwards. It is NOT their place to inflict their anti-piracy cr@p on other people. If someone takes a machine to be repaired, then that is what they must do and nothing else. I'm not sure exactly which branch it was, but it's in Cape Town.

I'm just pointing this out so hopefully everyone here will never use them again, and tell your friends/family likewise. I will also be reporting it on hellopeter. Dial-a-Nerd; this will be the most expensive few hundred Rand you've ever made. :mad:

If the software was illegal then they did the right thing... if it comes out of their shop with illegal software, they can be held responsible.

[Pitbull]

relax, there are a significant number of us who agree that it was unwarranted. Now the ball is in her court to take it further.

I agree with you but these OMS PIRATES NEED TO BE SHOT bull**** posts is not what this complaint is about and the whole Morality Club is jumping on it now :rolleyes:

I have Pirate Software and will use them proudly. Suck on them apples ( )o( )

[thatdamnJoe]

As a software developer I despise people who run pirated software. A lot of time, effort and stress goes into the development. What your friend is doing is the equivalent of using someones service and not paying them for it. If you want free then use open source software, there are plenty of people who don't mind coding for free (hence providing you with a free service).

And how can you state that you don't want people touching "your" stuff when you send it in for repairs? Pirated software is not your stuff in the first place since you never paid for it. Besides they might have had a legitimate reason for removing it, chances are that some dodgy copies of software from dodgy p2p sources may ship with trojans. Running a system scan on a system infected with a nasty little critter like Win32/TrojanDropper.Agent.DGO (for example, which targets exe files and creates havoc on your system) using a tool called Hijack This (among many) would reveal which exe files are being targeted, and more often than not it's those belonging to illegitimate software.

Sorry if you don't agree with me but I'd have to say well done Dial A Nerd. At least they got your friends computer back to her working again, and she hasn't been turned into a dyke in jail.

You are assuming she never paid for the software. Someone is liable for installing the pirated software - what if it was an unscrupulous dealer?

Vigilante justice is ok now?

[diabolus]

1. He should have refused to work on it from the second he saw it was pirated.
2. Should have phoned her told her the problem and asked her what she wants him to do
3. Offered to sell her legit Office if he needed to format the machine.



Yep, exactly. While everyone is applauded the anti-piracy moves by this company, i think it is VERY bad "business" sense to just uninstall stuff like that.

I mean :
a] How did they determine the copy is illegal without the end user input? Did they run the serial numbers through some validation check?
b] How certain are they that removing software will not affect -legal- and -personal- documents on the said PC? It's like formatting a drive because Windows was illegal..you are only asking for trouble.

[thatdamnJoe]

You have some nerve calling yourself a part of the IT community and demanding an apology for not supporting your criminal activities. Your assumption is that they will go out of business just because you can bad-mouth them as you see fit.

Go picket all you want, then you can go to court and explain to the judge why you should not be charged for slander. I'd love to see you defend your stance by saying that it's because somebody tried to fix your computer by tampering with your illegal software.

Just for the record I have cached this thread locally (in case you decide to start editting bits). If RPM were to be presented with a court order from DAN to reveal your details then it would leave him no choice. Think about how far you want to take this because I don't mind taking DAN's side on it. Call me an @$$hole as much as you like, but I have great respect for people who abide by a code of ethics.

It's only slander if it isn't true

[PeterCH]

If the software was illegal then they did the right thing... if it comes out of their shop with illegal software, they can be held responsible.

So I can load some Russian translation software which being in Russian also has the reg data in Russian and if they overlook it I can sue them?
Or I wrote a few Pascal programs in my HS years, nothing fancy - file splitting, file searching, file copying, deleting utilites for DOS etc,
maybe I should load one of those command line utilities on and then have
sue DAN for not documenting that they verified it was a licenced copy.

The point is that if they're gonna be Dial a Nerd - Computer Repairs and Piracy Scanners they should call themselves appropriately and equip themselves to be consistent about it. It shouldn't be a wishy washy thing then, and only for a select group of programs eg Adobe and MS.

[Pitbull]

It's only slander if it isn't true

+1

If they did remove the Pirate Software it's not Slander :D

[AcidRaZor]

Yep, exactly. While everyone is applauded the anti-piracy moves by this company, i think it is VERY bad "business" sense to just uninstall stuff like that.

I mean :
a] How did they determine the copy is illegal without the end user input? Did they run the serial numbers through some validation check?
b] How certain are they that removing software will not affect -legal- and -personal- documents on the said PC? It's like formatting a drive because Windows was illegal..you are only asking for trouble.

They probably uninstalled it in an attempt to fix her problem. If it wasn't hardware related (which I assume it was NOT) then they wouldn't have bothered with it in the first place.

She probably complained it wasn't working well (Office) then they tried fixing it, but when they then (either got the serial with a program you can use, or asked the client for the serial so they could do a reinstall after they already uninstalled it) found out it was pirated.

Now they can't re-install anything because if they do they're liable for a fine from the BSA as they will then have a hand in pirating software (by then re-installing the stolen piece of software the client had)

Stop assuming they did something wrong and think about the logicical conclusions you can draw up as to WHY they did this.

Sure its bad business but if I asked them to take a look at my pirated software because its not working right (which neither party knew was pirated maybe?) and then they did try fix it, what then?

"Sorry ma'am, we needed to uninstall Office to help solve the problem do you have your serial keys with you?"

"No, I installed it from this disk a friend gave me"

???

[thatdamnJoe]

Using stuff that you didn't pay for which isn't free - sorry, criminals.


Care to state which statute was breached?

Civil actions are not Criminal actions. Using unlicensed software(which may actually have been paid for-albeit to dodgy dealers) is not a criminal action AFAIK. It is NOT stealing - which would have robbed you of the original article and requires intent.

You were mentioning slander a few posts ago...

[dial-a-nerd]

Hi Kaiser,
We've been trying all morning to track down this job without success and I've just written you an email asking for more information which you can hopefully provide. If we deleted 'illegal' software from our customers computers we would very swiftly run out of customers and this is definately not our intention. What possibly happened is that Office was corrupt or Windows needed to be re-installed from scratch. In either of these cases our technician would have needed a CD and authentic license to reinstall. We have a very firm policy on <b>installing</b> unlicensed software but would never touch perfectly working unlicensed software. We uphold the law but are not acting as judge and jury.
In terms of privacy we have even stricter policies. Any of our technicians invading any of our customers privacy in any way will get fired immediately. We've never in our history had an issue in this regard.
Lastly I want to thank the other members who have come out in support of the fight against piracy. Althought this particular issue is mainly one of miscommunication I appreciate the sentiment in most of the replies.
Thanks,
Colin Thornton

[Smooth Criminal]

So you're sure you never downloaded a Shareware app to resolve an issue then failed to register (buy) it afterwards? Not even once? This is what he means.
Just curious, how do you know exactly what he means? I didn't see him mention anything about Shareware. It also depends on the conditions and functionality of the Shareware. For example Winrar/Winzip would let you keep using it free of charge, but you'd have to deal with a popup on startup if you didn't pay for it. That's perfectly reasonable as the developers allowed for that. Other Shareware might provide you with full functionality for a limited time, after which it just won't start up at all.

Basically you cannot paint all Shareware with the same brush, it's perfectly fine to keep it installed if the functionality allows for it. However deliberately circumventing Shareware to remove the time trial is not Kosher. These are two different issues.


I agree with you but these OMS PIRATES NEED TO BE SHOT bull**** posts is not what this complaint is about and the whole Morality Club is jumping on it now :rolleyes:

I have Pirate Software and will use them proudly. Suck on them apples ( )o( )
Great, just don't moan about thieves if you're happy to be one too.

[daveza]

if it comes out of their shop with illegal software, they can be held responsible.

I have my doubts.


19. Customer's property and property supplied to the Supplier will be retained at the Customers risk.


32. The risk of damage to, or destruction or theft of its products shall pass to the Customer on delivery of any order placed in terms of this Agreement and the Customer undertakes to comprehensively insure the products until paid for in full. The Supplier may recover insurance premiums from the Customer for products insured on the Customer's behalf.

The implication is clear - the provider takes no responsibility for the goods held.

For example, should the BSA pitch up and check a pc which has not yet been attended to and they find illegal software on it then there is no way the provider can be held responsible.

[Pitbull]

Hi Kaiser,
We've been trying all morning to track down this job without success and I've just written you an email asking for more information which you can hopefully provide. If we deleted 'illegal' software from our customers computers we would very swiftly run out of customers and this is definately not our intention. What possibly happened is that Office was corrupt or Windows needed to be re-installed from scratch. In either of these cases our technician would have needed a CD and authentic license to reinstall. We have a very firm policy on <b>installing</b> unlicensed software but would never touch perfectly working unlicensed software. We uphold the law but are not acting as judge and jury.
In terms of privacy we have even stricter policies. Any of our technicians invading any of our customers privacy in any way will get fired immediately. We've never in our history had an issue in this regard.
Lastly I want to thank the other members who have come out in support of the fight against piracy. Althought this particular issue is mainly one of miscommunication I appreciate the sentiment in most of the replies.
Thanks,
Colin Thornton

This is what I would have assumed have happened with a fresh install.
Then all is well, but if it was removed because the Turd, sorry meant nerd wanted to be Judge and Jury then I honestly believe that DAN is far wrong and will never get any referrences from me

[xrapidx]

So I can load some Russian translation software which being in Russian also has the reg data in Russian and if they overlook it I can sue them?
Or I wrote a few Pascal programs in my HS years, nothing fancy - file splitting, file searching, file copying, deleting utilites for DOS etc,
maybe I should load one of those command line utilities on and then have
sue DAN for not documenting that they verified it was a licenced copy.

The point is that if they're gonna be Dial a Nerd - Computer Repairs and Piracy Scanners they should call themselves appropriately and equip themselves to be consistent about it. It shouldn't be a wishy washy thing then, and only for a select group of programs eg Adobe and MS.

Not saying I agree with what they did, but can see why they probably did it.

I'd be pissed if they did it to me, especially if they didn't call first - some techie might of loaded Office with a pirated key, even though I have a valid license at home.

[ghoti]

Smooth Criminal, as the guy mentioned, calling a person a thief or a criminal with no proof of such an act IS LIABLE. Piracy is not a crime. Its a civil action (as mentioned) not a criminal one.

If anything you are more liable than most of the people in this thread.


Hey Colin/ Dial-a-Nerd.

Kudos for clearing things up here and posting here. That is impressive :P I take back any nasty thing I may have thought about your company :P

Regards,

w1z

[PeterCH]

Just curious, how do you know exactly what he means? I didn't see him mention anything about Shareware. It also depends on the conditions and functionality of the Shareware. For example Winrar/Winzip would let you keep using it free of charges, but you'd have to deal with a popup on startup if you didn't pay for it. That's perfectly reasonable as the developers allowed for that. Other Shareware might provide you with full functionality for a limited time, after which it just won't start up at all.

Did you actually read the T&C of WinZIP? :)


This is not free software. Subject to the terms below, you are hereby licensed by WinZip Computing, Inc. ("WCI") to use one copy of WinZip, on one (1) computer or workstation, for evaluation purposes without charge for a period of 21 days. If you use this software after the 21-day evaluation period, a license fee of $29 is required.

Other software lets you evaluate but only in a non-commercial setting etc.

The terms are very strict and clicking the annoying popup is not strictly enough to make the software freeware (but with an annoying popup).

WinZip doesn't tell you when the 21 days expires though. Now if you still have a copy on your HD after that long, you're a copyright violator, a pirate.

Now go search your PC for other such programs....

[Pitbull]

Just curious, how do you know exactly what he means? I didn't see him mention anything about Shareware. It also depends on the conditions and functionality of the Shareware. For example Winrar/Winzip would let you keep using it free of charges, but you'd have to deal with a popup on startup if you didn't pay for it. That's perfectly reasonable as the developers allowed for that. Other Shareware might provide you with full functionality for a limited time, after which it just won't start up at all.

Basically you cannot paint all Shareware with the same brush, it's perfectly fine to keep it installed if the functionality allows for it. However deliberately circumventing Shareware to remove the time trial is not Kosher. These are two different issues.


Great, just don't moan about thieves if you're happy to be one too.

Want me to come steal your car ?
Your annology is retarded to say the least, if you pick up a R 10 in the road and there is no one close anywhere. Do you use the money or do you feel that you're stealing from the person that lost it and have no way of ever finding him. So you're seeing this as Stealing from him ? his hard earned money that you found for free in the street ?

/yawn

[Dolby]

thatdamnJoe has a point ....

What if it was an unscrupulous dealer? Lots of older people are taken for rides anyway. In this case, DAN isn't really helping the situation. They should rather have confronted her.

What happens with msuci? They go through all 25,000 songs and try pin-point fakes? Do I need to bring in my originals in order to get the PC back? Do they just delete and it takes me days to rip all my CDs?

[PsyWulf]

So I can load some Russian translation software which being in Russian also has the reg data in Russian and if they overlook it I can sue them?
Or I wrote a few Pascal programs in my HS years, nothing fancy - file splitting, file searching, file copying, deleting utilites for DOS etc,
maybe I should load one of those command line utilities on and then have
sue DAN for not documenting that they verified it was a licenced copy.

The point is that if they're gonna be Dial a Nerd - Computer Repairs and Piracy Scanners they should call themselves appropriately and equip themselves to be consistent about it. It shouldn't be a wishy washy thing then, and only for a select group of programs eg Adobe and MS.

I have mentioned this before

Standard apps to be updated during a software service are, Windows,Office,Antivirus,Spyware scanners of which Windows and Office checks keys

But yeah I tend to think a reload of office was needed and since no key is available she's stuck

I've had it before where we needed to reload and a client would go ape at having their illegal Software that was working removed because of a format

QQ sum moar

[xrapidx]

I have my doubts.

The implication is clear - the provider takes no responsibility for the goods held.

For example, should the BSA pitch up and check a pc which has not yet been attended to and they find illegal software on it then there is no way the provider can be held responsible.

But the customer could get caught, and say the last place I took my pc to is Dial-a-nerd, and this is how it came back?

[The_Librarian]

Hi Kaiser,
We've been trying all morning to track down this job without success and I've just written you an email asking for more information which you can hopefully provide. If we deleted 'illegal' software from our customers computers we would very swiftly run out of customers and this is definately not our intention. What possibly happened is that Office was corrupt or Windows needed to be re-installed from scratch. In either of these cases our technician would have needed a CD and authentic license to reinstall. We have a very firm policy on <b>installing</b> unlicensed software but would never touch perfectly working unlicensed software. We uphold the law but are not acting as judge and jury.
In terms of privacy we have even stricter policies. Any of our technicians invading any of our customers privacy in any way will get fired immediately. We've never in our history had an issue in this regard.
Lastly I want to thank the other members who have come out in support of the fight against piracy. Althought this particular issue is mainly one of miscommunication I appreciate the sentiment in most of the replies.
Thanks,
Colin Thornton

Thanks for clearing this up! :)

Now the ball is in the OP's court for providing more information regarding this.

[Smooth Criminal]

Smooth Criminal, as the guy mentioned, calling a person a thief or a criminal with no proof of such an act IS LIABLE. Piracy is not a crime. Its a civil action (as mentioned) not a criminal one.

If anything you are more liable than most of the people in this thread.


Hey Colin/ Dial-a-Nerd.

Kudos for clearing things up here and posting here. That is impressive :P I take back any nasty thing I may have thought about your company :P

Regards,

w1z

Hehe half of my username is criminal, perhaps I should sue myself :p

It's a mere technicality, the law sees it as civil, I see it as criminal. And yeah I know it doesn't matter what I think, but I just think it's unfair to developers and people who legitimately pay for something. Besides, I never pointed fingers and called anyone a criminal, it was a generalisation based on how I see it :)

[PsyWulf]

thatdamnJoe has a point ....

What if it was an unscrupulous dealer? Lots of older people are taken for rides anyway. In this case, DAN isn't really helping the situation. They should rather have confronted her.

What happens with msuci? They go through all 25,000 songs and try pin-point fakes? Do I need to bring in my originals in order to get the PC back? Do they just delete and it takes me days to rip all my CDs?

They don't browse around the PC to find something. Reload was needed probably and she didn't have a key. Feel my sympathy. She can report the unscrupulous sale with an Invoice charging her for Office without getting a licence key - and get a legal one infact

[The_Librarian]

For example Winrar/Winzip would let you keep using it free of charge, but you'd have to deal with a popup on startup if you didn't pay for it. That's perfectly reasonable as the developers allowed for that. Other Shareware might provide you with full functionality for a limited time, after which it just won't start up at all.

Go read the T&C's of WinRAR/WinZIP again, and report back.

I'm using ZipGenius on my PC's.

[killadoob]

Hahahaha smooth, guess your a pirate after all :p

[Dolby]

They don't browse around the PC to find something. Reload was needed probably and she didn't have a key. Feel my sympathy. She can report the unscrupulous sale with an Invoice charging her for Office without getting a licence key - and get a legal one infact

Yea - I read that now.

Sorry didn't have the time to reach every single post ;)

[daveza]

Good to see Colin's input here and his comments make sense.

I imagine the scenario is this:

DAN did not deliberately remove ' pirate' software but the repair required a reinstall of the application in question. At this stage it was discovered that the original install was iffy.

Someone slipped up in the communication department - a common failing in SA business, and the interest shown here shows just how damaging this can be.

[PsyWulf]

Yea - I read that now.

Sorry didn't have the time to reach every single post ;)

Hehe trust me,before I even considered posting here I read _every_ reply,lest I put my foot in my mouth with a duplicate post :D

[bekdik]

This thread must have one of the highest post rates attained on MBB! :D

[PeterCH]

I have mentioned this before

Standard apps to be updated during a software service are, Windows,Office,Antivirus,Spyware scanners of which Windows and Office checks keys

But yeah I tend to think a reload of office was needed and since no key is available she's stuck

I've had it before where we needed to reload and a client would go ape at having their illegal Software that was working removed because of a format

QQ sum moar

Two issues here. Someone said that DAN would be held accountable if they ignored copyright violations. So what is a copyright violation then.

Its any piece of IP which has the Copyright controlled symbol and for which you don't have written permission. That means IF DAN is a Piracy verification service - they should be consistent and check everything because sure as heck I don't want copies of my outdated utilities being copied around either and if DAN ignores that, I'm suing! :)

If the copy was not legit, tell the customer. Maybe she was swindled. Maybe she's ignorant. Maybe she has a legit copy at home (still sealed in box) but
was too lazy to reinstall or didn't know how to do it. Inform the customer,
and ask what to do next. Don't bully the customer though and threaten with the BSA if you know BSA doesn't go after inviduals like her. That's called extortortion and is illegal in itself.

Kudos to the REAL DAN for coming back and explaing. As Peter Cheales would say, they seem to be a company which 'cares' :) !

[Smooth Criminal]

Did you actually read the T&C of WinZIP? :)

Admittedly I haven't, Winzip is a piece of crap :)

If it's in their T&C then I can't argue, the onus however is on them to notify the user of the expiration period and/or limit functionality should they wish. That's negligent programming if you ask me.

[Pitbull]

Admittedly I haven't, Winzip is a piece of crap :)

If it's in their T&C then I can't argue, the onus however is on them to notify the user of the expiration period and/or limit functionality should they wish. That's negligent programming if you ask me.

So your exploiting their flaw in programming ? Isn't that criminal ?

[PeterCH]

Admittedly I haven't, Winzip is a piece of crap :)

If it's in their T&C then I can't argue, the onus however is on them to notify the user of the expiration period and/or limit functionality should they wish. That's negligent programming if you ask me.

The onus is on YOU to read the T&C and uninstall the application as soon as 21 days are up or you've evaluated the software to your satisfaction - whichever comes FIRST. :)

[thatdamnJoe]

If you go work on someones plumbing and see them kill someone. Would you keep it to yourself?

Crime is crime. So you're an accessory to this crime. Something Dial-A-Nerd didn't want to be. So I applaud them for doing what they did.

Crime is breaching of a statute. The state charges you in a criminal case.

DAN is not an agent of the state and cannot determine if a crime has been commited without knowing ALL the details.

If the state can prove the owner has commited a crime by installing pirated software(unlikely given details of her tech-savvyness) they may prosecute her for such and determine an appropriate respoinse. If they cannot prove piracy, the company which has suffered a financial impact because of her use of unlicensed software may institute a civl claim for damages.

If the state has not proved piracy, it may be hard to prove any damages incurred by the defendant and a civil claim may also be tricky to prove.

Either way, DAN was out of line. If they removed a virus and the software somehow was uninstalled because of that its a different story however.

[masticore]

Smooth Criminal, as the guy mentioned, calling a person a thief or a criminal with no proof of such an act IS LIABLE<snip>

libel

[thatdamnJoe]

if i see a crime happening i phone the police ... i hope they lock your pirating/stealing ass up next time.

Exactly

You dont go vigilante on their ass

[Smooth Criminal]

So your exploiting their flaw in programming ? Isn't that criminal ?


The onus is on YOU to read the T&C and uninstall the application as soon as 21 days are up or you've evaluated the software to your satisfaction - whichever comes FIRST. :)

But I don't use it anyway :confused:

I was just giving an example off the top of my head, I don't have the time to read each and every T&C just to provide you guys with an example. I'm sorry if it was a poor choice, but you get the gist of what I meant.

[Trent242]

I said keep your draconian opinions to yourself. QUOTE]

Expecting people to pay for software is draconian ? I'm sure that all the parties involved in software development love working for charity.

[QUOTE=Kaiser;2212283]Everyone has pirated software on their machines.

And that makes it right ?


Exactly - who made them copyright cop, judge, jury and

executioner?

I agree. Dial-a-Nerd should have gone through the proper channels when they suspect that a pc contains illegal software.

[PsyWulf]

libel


I didn't feel like being the Nazi :D

[PeterCH]

Exactly

You dont go vigilante on their ass

Except you don't call the POLICE, you call the BSA.
If they (the representative of the copyright holder don't pursue it)
don't make a fool of yourself and call the police.

[thatdamnJoe]

No. A better one would be "If someone takes a car with filed down registration numbers in for service"

Not true.

Digital copies are not original items. The lady did not go to MS offices and walk out with a copy of Office in her handbag, leaving them with one less...

[DDV TECH]

Perhaps we should wait until we hear from the OP, we need some more input from his side before determining anything here it seems.

[ghoti]

It's a mere technicality, the law sees it as civil, I see it as criminal.

So is the difference between a cop killing a thief or the thief killing a cop. Those technicalities are very important. Thank goodness you are not the law :P


And yeah I know it doesn't matter what I think, but I just think it's unfair to developers and people who legitimately pay for something.

I dont feel squat for devs, at least not until EULA`s are removed or devs are held accountable for what their badly written code does to systems, and I think that people who can afford software or not to bothered by people who cant afford software.

I also notice loads of devs who work on FOSS who make nice lil fortunes :P

[thatdamnJoe]

I think that Dial-A-Nerd did exactly the right thing. They probably found out that the software was pirated while troubleshooting her problem, not by sneaking around her registry looking for pr0n. Did you ever think about that?. However, if they were snooping, then they should be taken to task for that, but not for reporting pirated software. I am sure that DaN could prove what they were doing.

B

fixed it for you

[thatdamnJoe]

It was mentioned that the lady could not do her work because of the removal of Office , so obviously people will assume that she was using it for work and hence making a profit.

So sorry, but get your facts straight before defending criminals.

Define criminal

And before you answer: " someone who breaks the law" consider this;

Does me holding a gun to your head and forcing you to install an unlicensed copy of Office make you a criminal?

You've broken the law after all...


The details are very important. Always

[PsyWulf]

Define criminal

And before you answer: " someone who breaks the law" consider this;

Does me holding a gun to your head and forcing you to install an unlicensed copy of Office make you a criminal?

You've broken the law after all...


The details are very important. Always

That my friend is called solicitation


To persuade or incite one to commit some act, especially illegal or sexual behavior.

[Nod]

Dial-A-Nerd could at least contacted her, and asked if she bought Office. If she didn't, they could have given her some options, to resolve the perceived problem. At the very least they could have installed OpenOffice as an alternative.

[thatdamnJoe]

Dude, you need to RELAX! They are a GREAT COMPANY. So be very careful how you handle this, I think your anger is getting the best of you.... and they are DEFINATELY not in the wrong... I applaud them.

I have a legit copy of a game but dont want to load the cd every time i play.

SO I download the crack and use that. Computer is buggy and goes to DAN.
They proceed to unilaterally delete said legit game(i have a valid claim to usage rights).

They did the right thing? I think not

[Smooth Criminal]

Let's concede for now that it was a possible miscommunication on their part as they have pointed out in their post, and await the OP's response.

[PsyWulf]

I have a legit copy of a game but dont want to load the cd every time i play.

SO I download the crack and use that. Computer is buggy and goes to DAN.
They proceed to unilaterally delete said legit game(i have a valid claim to usage rights).

They did the right thing? I think not

If the crack caused software problems ofc it'll be removed. Stop trying to be smart,you are failing badly sofar

[Logo]

As someone in IT I can tell you what more than likekly happened. They didn't go scratching around and looking at registry keys etc. They patched XP or Vista to the latest service pack. This comes with the newest WGA utility which checks the installed software such as the OS and Office 2007. WGA found Office not be a valid copied and the copy of Office 2007 was set to open in reduced functionality mode, which is pretty useless. Instead of giving the user back an installation of Office which she couldn't use to edit or create any files they decided to remove Office. Should they have given back the users PC with Office in reduced functionality mode then this thread would have been about how pathetic DAN is and how they broke the users Office installation. It's a no-win situation for them.

[diabolus]

She probably complained it wasn't working well (Office) then they tried fixing it, but when they then (either got the serial with a program you can use, or asked the client for the serial so they could do a reinstall after they already uninstalled it) found out it was pirated.


Well since Dial-a-nerd did respond about 3 pages back, yes, this is pretty much starting to look like this is the case. Alot of people got some work buddy to install stuff on their PC and then it stops working...and they're quite unaware that it was illegal/expired etc etc.

I know for example Incredible Connection loads trial versions of Office on their new PCs, which will "stop working" after say 30 days...the less informed members of the public might actually think their PC stopped working ;)

I'm sensing a distinct lack of communication here. If the OP was the affected person i might have granted him some benefit of the doubt, but again this is not the OP himself but "a family friend" big red rights should be flashing in any post here, which is already quite a bit "down the grapevine" in the IT world...inexperienced users complaining means they leave out the important parts....

[PsyWulf]

inexperienced users complaining means they leave out the important parts....

Hehe playing the ring-telephone game ^.^


*Sidenote - gz me on 666 posts

[thatdamnJoe]

That my friend is called solicitation

Actually no PsyWulf. Holding a gun to your head is not solicitation. It's forcing you.

[thatdamnJoe]

If the crack caused software problems ofc it'll be removed. Stop trying to be smart,you are failing badly sofar

/cries at the masters insult

[bekdik]

I know for example Incredible Connection loads trial versions of Office on their new PCs, which will "stop working" after say 30 days...the less informed members of the public might actually think their PC stopped working ;)

This is a standard option in "Office Ready" pc's, e.g. Acer, HP. it allows the user to purchase a machine-locked discount version of office.

[daveza]

Actually no PsyWulf. Holding a gun to your head is not solicitation. It's forcing you.

Extortion, not solicitation.

[Trent242]

Runaway thread !

[Smooth Criminal]

Actually no PsyWulf. Holding a gun to your head is not solicitation. It's forcing you.


To persuade or incite one to commit some act, especially illegal or sexual behavior.
I think it still counts as persuasion :) Force would be a form of physical persuasion. However it wouldn't be persuasion anymore if you pulled the trigger since any command issued from there on would be met with a blank stare :p

[PsyWulf]

Actually no PsyWulf. Holding a gun to your head is not solicitation. It's forcing you.

The method is not in question,the definition is quite clear in convincing you to do something illegal - which a gun to the head would basically do

Although it'd be filed under Threatening/Intimidation with a Deadly weapon (see coercion illegally applied),which would still be thrown out in any case as a victim cannot be held liable for actions taken under duress

[PsyWulf]

Extortion, not solicitation.

extortion n. The act or an instance of extorting. Illegal use of one's official position or powers to obtain property, funds, or patronage.

[thatdamnJoe]

The method is not in question,the definition is quite clear in convincing you to do something illegal - which a gun to the head would basically do

Although it'd be filed under Threatening/Intimidation with a Deadly weapon (see coercion illegally applied),which would still be thrown out in any case as a victim cannot be held liable for actions taken under duress

Which brings me back to the original point. The details are important, you cant only look at the software and say thats illegal.

If DAN unilaterally decided to delete something they saw as illegal they would be making a mistake. There could be legitimate reasons for such an installation(unscrupulous dealers, having a legit key but not bothering to reinstall etc).

If they formatted and upon reinstallation found the illegit key problem thats something else entirely. But it doesnt change the fact that a lot of posters were supporting unilateral removal of software they reckoned was illegally installed.


[start thread derail]
Psywulf
Insulting me instead of disproving the points I raise is a weak form of argumentation.

If you want to start a seperate thread debating coercion vs use of force I'd be happy to meet you there.
[end thread derail]

[PsyWulf]

[start thread derail]
Psywulf
Insulting me instead of disproving the points I raise is a weak form of argumentation.

If you want to start a seperate thread debating coercion vs use of force force I'd be happy to meet you there.
[end thread derail]

I did not disagree with your points,however other people have posted quite valid arguments to which your retorts have been less than satisfactory. Ignoring valid replies with another "but they removed it without having any right QQ" is not a brilliant argument either. If you were to scroll to about 5 pages ago you would note I said that just blatantly removing software is not a fair process had it happened

You seem to be the only one who is quite certain they forcibly removed software due to legality,which is in contention


I am merely focusing on the other parts of your argument as I don't feel 7 people posting the same thing is productive :)

[douglash24]

Ok, so why did it take her a week to get pirated software again? Go Dial-a-nerd! Btw - i love it when people say they will cause business to lose customers.. Like they have all the power.. Lol

[Pitbull]

Ok, so why did it take her a week to get pirated software again? Go Dial-a-nerd! Btw - i love it when people say they will cause business to lose customers.. Like they have all the power.. Lol

Well after this I for one will not go to them ;) I have to many Pirated things on my machine :D

[ghoti]

Ok, so why did it take her a week to get pirated software again? Go Dial-a-nerd! Btw - i love it when people say they will cause business to lose customers.. Like they have all the power.. Lol

Consumers actually do have all the power. Piss enough people off and your company will be seriously effected by it.

[<moLe>]

boom

[thatdamnJoe]

I did not disagree with your points,however other people have posted quite valid arguments to which your retorts have been less than satisfactory. Ignoring valid replies with another "but they removed it without having any right QQ" is not a brilliant argument either.

Not fancy enough for you? Its still correct though..



If you were to scroll to about 5 pages ago you would note I said that just blatantly removing software is not a fair process had it happened

Good, then we agree



You seem to be the only one who is quite certain they forcibly removed software due to legality,which is in contention

I'm certain of this?

Let's see


If they removed a virus and the software somehow was uninstalled because of that its a different story however.

If...





I am merely focusing on the other parts of your argument as I don't feel 7 people posting the same thing is productive :)

Granted, I started reading from the front and commented as I went along. Which ended up in me double-dipping some comments. Will you forgive my indiscretion?

/me hopes the sangoma's wolfsbane works on Psywulves

[Juggy]

You have some nerve calling yourself a part of the IT community and demanding an apology for not supporting your criminal activities. Your assumption is that they will go out of business just because you can bad-mouth them as you see fit.

Go picket all you want, then you can go to court and explain to the judge why you should not be charged for slander. I'd love to see you defend your stance by saying that it's because somebody tried to fix your computer by tampering with your illegal software.

Just for the record I have cached this thread locally (in case you decide to start editting bits). If RPM were to be presented with a court order from DAN to reveal your details then it would leave him no choice. Think about how far you want to take this because I don't mind taking DAN's side on it. Call me an @$$hole as much as you like, but I have great respect for people who abide by a code of ethics.

SC, no one knows for sure if it was pirated or not.

[PsyWulf]

Not fancy enough for you? Its still correct though..

Good, then we agree

I'm certain of this?

Let's see

If...

Granted, I started reading from the front and commented as I went along. Which ended up in me double-dipping some comments. Will you forgive my indiscretion?

/me hopes the sangoma's wolfsbane works on Psywulves

This is a post I like :)
1 Thing tho -you are quite vehement in stating that


Either way, DAN was out of line.

Least you give the option to back out,but nevertheless this is quite a firm statement instead of a maybe. So i'm a bit of a battleaxe ;)

Anyways I think your legal contentions are becoming less so i'm bored now :(

[DDV TECH]

Ok, so why did it take her a week to get pirated software again? Go Dial-a-nerd! Btw - i love it when people say they will cause business to lose customers.. Like they have all the power.. Lol

Do really think DAN would have come on here to comment if they did not feel that this 1 thread can negatively affect business? You give this forum too little credit my friend.

[PsyWulf]

Do really think DAN would have come on here to comment if they did not feel that this 1 thread can negatively affect business? You give this forum too little credit my friend.

Colin is the owner and chief of the nerds and he's always been quite on the ball with handling customer complaints so yes I do expect his comment on any threads pertaining a single person who's specific view could appear on a search engine where the preview only shows the rant and not the reply ( google indexing previews )

Sidenote - I think many if not most of the Mybb posters either solve or know someone who'd rather solve their pc issues :D