Job posting

[Scarface]

Hope I don't get flamed for this but I need to fill a position at work and hate going via employment agencies. Especially seeing that there are some very knowledgeable people on here, I would like to invite some CV's for a Sysadmin.

We are a Systems Integration house and integrate a lot of UNIX & Windows environments so if you have skills with Windows and Linux/Unix, some knowledge of electronics (not that serious) and like a challenging environment, please email me your CV. Offices based in Randburg JHB, neg package, benefits etc.

Legal Stuff - equal emplyer company, if you don't hear from me in 5 days, you accept that the post was filled. Test may be done to confirm skills.

Please e-mail me...


Closing Date for submission of CV's - 23 June 2004
-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<

Let us then be what we are, and speak what we think, and in all things keep ourselves loyal to truth.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

[mbs]

If you're so cheap that you won't pay an employment agency or Internet job forum their fee, that does not justify your abuse of this forum in this manner - you probably won't have the bucks to pay for a decent sysadmin anyway...
Those tempted to email SCARFACE - don't! How's that for a flame, you cheapskate?! AND - what the hell has this got to do with MyWireless General?!!
[:(!][:(!]

[TheRoDent]

I believe that whilst this might have been a bit of a "taking advantage" of the situation kind of post, that there is merit in it.

MyADSL contains a lot of people that have seriously good skills, and technical knowledge. I'd rather read an advertisement for a job opportunity here, than anywhere else. What I would NOT like to see is for the forums to become a general job advertising space.

But, in defence of Scarface, I would rather advertise here for a skilfull person too, rather than at any employment agency. Here, at least one gets a real feel for the skills of a prospective employee, rather than a bloated CV.

I'd prefer a knowledgeable MyADSL user above any amount of CV spam from an agency.

And yes, I appoint people on a regular basis, so I know what I'm talking about. mbs, I think that you may have had a bit of a gut reaction first, which was mine too, and I understand it.

But the more I think about it, the more I think Scarface will probably get a DECENT technical person to fill the position he's looking for, in the shortest amount of time, rather than getting spammed by a gazillion agencies.

I really don't think it's cheapskate. <b>It's time that IT workers in South Africa started banding together and manipulate the IT job market RIGHT BACK AT THEM.</b> THEM being idiotic agencies, and slightly-qualified-MCSE's.

I prefer beer-drinking-smoking-unix-long-haired type of people myself. In fact, those are the only good appointments I've ever made. Someone that takes enough interest in these forums, and the technical issues behind it, is obviously an IT lover. Or a DblD [:)]


<center><h6> MyWireless <s>Hacks</s> Tweaks & Tech Info (http://rodent.za.net/MyWireless) || Have you checked the fawking FAQ? (http://rodent.za.net/MyWireless) <br /> <font color="red">Tired of bad Service? Want to compare speeds? We at least listen...</font id="red"> (http://mywirelesssucks.co.za)</h6></center>

[Ditch]

Hear hear, agree with Rodent above :) (Strange thing, the thought also crossed my mind the other day to post here about a (small) c++ prog. job, but then I thought, nah, probably inappropriate).

[Scarface]

Thanks for the defence - MBS, my problem with Agencies are simply not the fees but the quality of candidates...in fact, to me it's also about passion. We have used agencies in the past and not one of them lasted more than 5 months - some of them were even "poached" back by the same agency.

This is the place where I believe you will find knowledgeable people or someone who knows of a techie worth his salt...and someone who is passionate about what they are doing. I apologise if anyone were offended. Thanks to those who knows what it's like to get techies from agencies.

-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;

Let us then be what we are, and speak what we think, and in all things keep ourselves loyal to truth.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

[mbs]

OK, SCAR - TR's quite right: just me venting out of frustration and generally bad mood (note the time of my post). Nice also that it's now in off-topic postings. I concede also to all points made - I've also been in the same situation many times in the past, where one has to field all the useless candidates with interminable interviews. And this is the motivation for the bloody 10-17% fee one has to pay to recruitment agencies?! Methinks TR has a point about taking back our industry (/aside - let's keep it in off-topic, with some pertinent outlines and discussion topics - care to kick it off, TR?). Hope you come right with your resource need...

[grubman]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by TheRoDent</i>
<br />
I prefer beer-drinking-smoking-unix-long-haired type of people myself. In fact, those are the only good appointments I've ever made.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

oi, what about us beer-drinking-smoking-unix-balding-ballie types :p

[Scarface]

Thanks mbs...maybe there should be a job posting section ? Last Unix bod I got came from Bulgaria (Brilliant guy) but would prefer local.

Grubman, care to join me for a smoke break?

-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;

Let us then be what we are, and speak what we think, and in all things keep ourselves loyal to truth.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

[ASF]

Agencies are cr*p!!!! Period!!!! Anyone who has ever a) tried to get a job through one of them OR b) tried to find suitable staff should agree with me.

Stupid knuckle-heads who generally use a shotgun approach - hey look at me, I have 1000 CV's here - surely I MUST have THE candidate for you - never mind the poor shmo they are peddling like meat to get their comm...

Community recruitment is the only way to go IMHO. ALL my staff have come through personal referalls - I can honestly say that I have not had one problem with quality, work ethic, knowledge or any other kind of issue - in fact on the one occasion where we jointly did a project the business partner provided a resource that they sourced through an agency and man - shocking.....

Not a bad idea having a jobs section here catering for those looking for work and those looking to hire....

[Scarface]

Thanks ASF...sad to see it's not just me that feels that way about agencies, I am sure there must be a few who know what they are doing.

Anyway, I will be having a banner up soon so maybe that is a better way of doing things for now, and it helps keeping this site going.

-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;

Let us then be what we are, and speak what we think, and in all things keep ourselves loyal to truth.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

[Elax]

&lt;flamesuit&gt;
Just out of curiosity, what do sys admins get paid on avg, e.g Linux/Windows people?
&lt;/flamesuit&gt;

[Scarface]

Anything from 150K to 250K I guess...

-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;

Let us then be what we are, and speak what we think, and in all things keep ourselves loyal to truth.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

[mbs]

Relax ELAX - no need for &lt;flamesuit&gt; as salary is a relevant consideration to the post...

&lt;/start rant - now on soapbox&gt;

BUT, this broaches a subject which I am quite passionate on - employers MUST pay people their WORTH, NOT the minimum that the 'market' dictates. Unfortunately, most employers view the 'market' as that recorded in salary surveys produced by the likes of Deloittes, with 'pay scales' and 'job grades'. These are, IMO, usually fictitious or statistically contrived, to bring a semblance of scientific method to the numbers, and make prospective employers feel comfortable with the use of the surveys for their internal purposes. Of course, most people forget that a nicely-formatted report is no indication of the real value of its content, or that statistical indications are merely a guide to the real numbers (some overseas parliamentarian once said something about 'lies, damn lies and statistics'...). So, you end up with the mistaken idea that a Sysadmin is worth, as SCAR says, anything between 150-250K - nonsense!

The only way to view this properly, IMO, is to establish the real worth of the person to your business - this implies that every individual must be assessed and remunerated uniquely and individually. This implies that 'pay scales' or 'job grade' determinants must be shelved in their entirety - pay the person that which you jointly consider to be his/her true worth, relative to your affordability! Of course, if you can't afford it, you shouldn't be employing a Sysadmin in the first place, or anybody else for that matter, and you should be prepared to start losing people... The individual assessment implies employer focus on things like results transparency, joint decision-making, mutual-benefit outcomes, etc., all of which will result in a bunch of happy-chappy employees, even if they have to sacrifice an increase or bonus for a period of time!

So... if your computing infrastructure is vital to continuity of business operations and you need a Sysadmin, then pay the person responsible for that continuity according to the monetary value you have assigned to the operation, relative to other functional areas and within the limits of your affordability! If this means an outgo of 1M/annum or 100K/annum, so be it! (Of course, you'll probably end up with a MS 'certified' PFY in the latter case - but then, you asked for it...).

Bottom line is - determine the maximum you're prepared to pay, be honest to candidates and tell them upfront what you're offering, then submit every candidate to an exahustive, practical assessment of their capability in performing the required duties. If you don't have the in-house expertise to do this, contract-in the expertise temporarily - you're better-off spending money on this, than paying a recruitment body-shop their fee for doing what really amounts to very little for you!

&lt;/end rant - gets off soapbox&gt;

[MyLowBandwidth]

How do people demand true worth in an exploitative job market like South Africa's. There are too many unemployed people, and yes some highly skilled unemployed people in industries like telecoms where the SNO saga has screwed up the entire industry. People are no longer paid for doing a job, but rather paid to add value to an organisation. If doing 10 peoples jobs ensures that you get paid what you want, then it seems in this country that people do that. My problem with agencies is that they oversell candidates in this way, by justifying their commission through " possible savings" with their extremely high calibre individual and literaly bullsh*t the client into buying something that has been dressed for the sale.

IT skills are exploited, and an assertive person like MBS will be screwed over because he wont stand for this crap. The problem is that most of us do accept the exploitation because jobs are scarce. Hell, I dont know where else I would find a white IT manager in my position. In my company, Im the only white one out of 3 others. And I just know that they are waiting to nail me, so to avoid this, I make myself indispensable and do their jobs as well.

I know its wrong. But right is not gonna pay my bond.

Cape Town 128K 16% Tower 22(Salt River)

[Scarface]

Huys, this is a difficult topic - and pay too. They asked what is the ave pay for a Sysadmin? Well, I stated what I know. We have a 22 y old in our co being paid much more than that actually and to get 3 or 4 increases in a year is also not uncommon.

My guess is that your best bet is to do your own thing. That way you write your own chq...but when you are ready.

-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;-&lt;

Let us then be what we are, and speak what we think, and in all things keep ourselves loyal to truth.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow