Why Macs Rule [Archive]

caroper

06-09-2004, 10:40 PM

Personally I make my living out of Microsoft, so I can't argue for MacOS, but having started my career designing CPU boards, I will comment on the platform.

I always prefered the 6800 family of chips over the Z80 and the 8080.

Initially the Apple and Apple II where based on the 6502 which was very close to the 6800, as used in the Motorola Exorcet and Dragon 32/64 computers, whilst the IBM PC was based on the 8080 and the other main contenders (Sinclair, Tandy etc)used the Z80.

When the industry exploded into the 16bit world, Apple chose the 68000 chip (I actualy owned a Lisa) and IBM the 8086.

Architecturally the 68000 and hence the Apple was years ahead (IBM even designed a 68000 daughter board that allowed the XT to run IBM370 Apps) but IBM opened up the architecture and (reluctantly) allowed clones. Microsoft never sold IBM the rites to DOS (Thank goodness) and so could provide the clone makers with a compatible OS.

The rest is down to economies of scale.

Is the Mac better? It depends on your application but, from an engineering point of view, I will always have a soft spot for Apple.

Cheers
Chris

rpm

06-09-2004, 10:56 PM

Hi guys

I have a friend in advertising and I think he will rather be separated from his loved ones than his Mac. He has a great deal of respect for it regarding usability, stability and general performance. Unfortunately I can not make a comparison since I have no experience with Macs (and I don’t intend gaining some soon [:D]).

Regards,

RPM
rpm@myadsl.co.za

Jerrek

06-09-2004, 11:56 PM

Gee people like funny things like necrophelia and iMacs. I've got nothing against Macs, just iMacs in particular, and any computer that is designed to look "cute" and put the word "functionality" in the same sentences as "one-button mouse." Great OS, great hardware (except the mouse and the iMac). I would dearly love to have an Apple laptop. The ones without a mouse. It will be used strictly for email/docs/web. Nothing important runs on Mac so you still need a PC. A PC with a five-button mouse and wheel.

kilps

07-09-2004, 10:28 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jerrek
 Nothing important runs on Mac so you still need a PC. A PC with a five-button mouse and wheel.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Alot of important things run on macs: Word, Exel, and Power Point come for macs. If you need to run a program that does not run on a mac you can always get Virtual PC for Mac which lets you run any Windows program on a Mac.

The Mac OS, X, is alot more superior to Windows XP; it looks good, hardly ever crashes and requires very little support (it is said this is the reason IT deparments recoment Windows - as job security).

The issue of a single buttoned mouse is not important, all functions still work and the Pro's of a mac rule out this and a few other con's.

martin

07-09-2004, 02:38 PM

There are actually two distinct arguments here which are being jumbled up at the moment.

1. Mac architecture versus PC architecture.
2. Mac operating system and software versus PC operating system and software.

Dunno much about point no. 1 but caroper made an intersting post on that. Wonder if that is still the case? Keep in mind though that at least in this country PC hardware is more widely available and cheaper than Mac hardware in general. Does the Mac support all the after-market PCI cards you can slot into a PC?

On point number two, I don't find it hard to believe that the Mac OS is both more useable and more stable than Windows. Can I run as many programs on it though? How many games are available for it? etc..

In the end it comes down to what works for you. Claiming that one is better than the other is not really comparing apples with apples.

Stupid question: Does linux run on the Mac? (I should probably know this)

Chris

07-09-2004, 05:36 PM

Click on the link below and find out[:D]

http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-users@linux.nf/msg09841.html

Anyway Kilps,the 115 page document is probably completley biased towards MaC and doesn't see what Windows programs can do the same thing.

Also for games you need a Windows Emulator (R1000) and Microsoft Office (R1000)

R2000 EXTRA for not even starting your pc....

VQuest

07-09-2004, 06:36 PM

Both the PC and the Mac have their advantages, it just goes down to personal taste, as with everything else in life. My preference is definitely a PC. Mac hardware is also very expensive, which is a pity.

----------------
United we stand!
----------------

anakin

07-09-2004, 07:52 PM

Why does anyone need more than one mouse button? :-)

<hr noshade size="1"><center>
My views are mine, and mine alone. irc://za.shadowfire.org/iburst</center>

martin

08-09-2004, 09:48 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dominic Rooney
 Click on the link below and find out[:D]

http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-users@linux.nf/msg09841.html

Anyway Kilps,the 115 page document is probably completley biased towards MaC and doesn't see what Windows programs can do the same thing.

Also for games you need a Windows Emulator (R1000) and Microsoft Office (R1000)

R2000 EXTRA for not even starting your pc....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks for the link dom.

Two questions though, would the Windows Emulator run all games? Most emulators I've looked at could only run a small subset of software. (Also I'm sure there would be a loss in speed because the game is running on an emulator. )

Secondly, why would you need Microsoft Office to run games or am I misunderstanding you?

kilps

08-09-2004, 10:30 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Two questions though, would the Windows Emulator run all games? Most emulators I've looked at could only run a small subset of software. (Also I'm sure there would be a loss in speed because the game is running on an emulator. )

Secondly, why would you need Microsoft Office to run games or am I misunderstanding you?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The emulator does not work for all Windows games but does this really matter? Alot of Windows games are avalable for Macs (see http://guide.apple.com/uscategories/games_us.lasso for some) and the emulator price is worth it, you can run programs for two OS on one workstation

dorris

08-09-2004, 11:37 AM

I''m not a MaC user, my experience is limited, but those arguing on the 1 mouse button, You should step into the world of OSX, now featuring compatibility for 2 button usb mouse! yay, how exciting

If you want to attack a piece of hardware, how about the iPOD, an overpriced, oversized MP3 player!

Like RPM, I have a mate in the film industry, and these guys swear by macs, don't you find it strange how all the arty people take to macs, perhaps the smooth finish and transparent green monitors attracts them.
And maybe it is the performance, I know with these guys, the edit suite they use, is a MAC only.

But moving onto stablility, they have a weird wednesday movie night at their offices, recently while watching a DVD off one of their macs on the projector, IT CRASHED!!
of course I couldn't restrain myself after all their speak of stability, I've never seen a PC not handle a DVD!!
To make matters worse, there is no eject button on cd-rom, that is on the keyboard (AWESOME FEATURES/useless gimmicks), so, once they couldn't get back to the OS, they couldn't remove the cd, armed with my trusty paperclip, I opened the neon flap guarding the DVD-r, to find a standard generic dvd-r, with the front removed, retrieved the dvd, and saved the day for the MAC lUsers.

Chris

08-09-2004, 05:14 PM

oh, sorry Martin if I meant what you said.

Kilps said that Macs come with PP, Excel, Word BUT you need Microsoft Office for that. (i.e. you don't get standerd on Macs as this os one of the so-called 'benefits'.

Perdition

08-09-2004, 10:52 PM

I know people in the film industry as well and they do love their Macs but they are by no means more stable than PC's. I had the (unfortunate) opportunity of working on them in a sound studio (for film) and my GOD what a terrible experience. To be fair it was not OS X running on a G5 but I'm scarred enough never to look at a Mac again! The PowerPC 970 chip (G5) is a sweet piece of hardware, but this is made by IBM, not Apple [;)]

With regard to emulation the software that kilps is referring to is called Virtual PC, formerly owned by Connectix now owned by Microsoft (the irony burns). Virtual PC emulates EVERYTHING including the video card. This means that your nice new R4000 screamer is reduced to a S3 Trio 32/64, so if you had any illusion of running Doom 3 in this you would probably have a better gaming experience in PowerPoint [;)]. If you're a gamer then your best option is to stick with the tried and trusted XP/PC combo.

CodeMaster

09-09-2004, 09:09 AM

'lo all

Lets just settle on this [:D] (dodge flame balls)

Dual-boot PC running Gentoo Linux and Win XP.
Also running VMWare, which emulates an entire OPERATING SYSTEM, and not just programs. [^]
Plus all your software (for Linux anyway) is buck-cheap.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Why does anyone need more than one mouse button? :-)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Linux actually requires 3 button mice, or atleast 2 with 3-button emulation, which is used to speed up common commands.

martin

09-09-2004, 09:55 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dominic Rooney
 oh, sorry Martin if I meant what you said.

Kilps said that Macs come with PP, Excel, Word BUT you need Microsoft Office for that. (i.e. you don't get standerd on Macs as this os one of the so-called 'benefits'.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No worries [:)].

CodeMaster, that's the setup we're running on a few of our office machines. Will probably become a standard soon. Only difference is we're running Suse Linux.

mbs

09-09-2004, 10:04 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Linux actually requires 3 button mice, or atleast 2 with 3-button emulation, which is used to speed up common commands.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
To be anal-retentive about it, no - Linux doesn't need a mouse. It's the chosen GUI Desktop and Window Manager enviros that need it, and which may use it in different ways...

kilps

09-09-2004, 10:13 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dominic Rooney
 Kilps said that Macs come with PP, Excel, Word BUT you need Microsoft Office for that. (i.e. you don't get standerd on Macs as this os one of the so-called 'benefits'.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I did not say this - what I meant is that like with Windows you can buy Office for Macs. As for the 'benefits' idea all I am saying is that Office is not a barrier, One should not use a Mac because everyone uses Office

kilps

09-09-2004, 10:28 AM

Hey There,

I am pro macs.
They Have no viruses
Much easier
further ahead
I pod

kilps

09-09-2004, 10:29 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dorris
 
If you want to attack a piece of hardware, how about the iPOD, an overpriced, oversized MP3 player!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The iPod has been designed so that people can keep ALL their songs on one unit. A 40 GB iPod is really worth the money - find me another unit which can hold 10000 songs

martin

09-09-2004, 11:06 AM

Chris

09-09-2004, 01:10 PM

IPOD- does this have anything to do with Macs? and over=priced.
Further ahead: What do you mean by that???
Actually Macs do have viruses, you fail do see any of the wrongs don't you?

kilps

09-09-2004, 01:31 PM

Mac OS X come with a wide range of software - iCal, iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie and more - does Windows come with such features? I mean look at Windows Movie Maker! iMovie makes Movie Maker look like the stone age (you can't even upload back onto your Digital Camera)

I do admit that Macs have Viruses - but ALOT less than Windows - how often does your Windows computer crash because of a Virus or other problem?

Macs are deffinitly further ahead - Macs offer all the programs one needs to keep a computer user happy - with Windows there are piles of extra cost (i.e. maintainance)

Porky

09-09-2004, 02:38 PM

kilps... what mac do you have? I am talking about hardware....

martin

09-09-2004, 03:03 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kilps
 Mac OS X come with a wide range of software - iCal, iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie and more - does Windows come with such features? I mean look at Windows Movie Maker! iMovie makes Movie Maker look like the stone age (you can't even upload back onto your Digital Camera)

I do admit that Macs have Viruses - but ALOT less than Windows - how often does your Windows computer crash because of a Virus or other problem?

Macs are deffinitly further ahead - Macs offer all the programs one needs to keep a computer user happy - with Windows there are piles of extra cost (i.e. maintainance)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

kilps, as I mentioned before comparing the Mac with the PC is like comparing apples with oranges. I'm not trying to state that the one is better than the other but in every case it depends on what your needs are.

Your creative types (designers, sound engineers, writers etc...) tend to love the Mac and the software it offers, while the serious gamers prefer the PC because of upgrade costs and availability of games. This is by no means the norm, you can certainly do video editing on a PC and do gaming on a Mac. Your experience may differ though.

My point is they both have their role and saying we should just stick to one (because it's apparently better) is really just taking away our freedom of choice.

chamdo

09-09-2004, 06:33 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Dominic Rooney
 IPOD- does this have anything to do with Macs? and over=priced.
Further ahead: What do you mean by that???
Actually Macs do have viruses, you fail do see any of the wrongs don't you?

[Hey there, IPOD does have something to do with it. Mac created it. Over priced!!! - it is an external hard drive and it can store between 10 and 40 gigs!
Ok so Macs have viruses! I use both mac and PC and I have used both for 20 years. I have never had a virus on my mac and I have had an infinity amount of viruses]

cmcdonald

chamdo

09-09-2004, 06:36 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kilps
 [quote]Originally posted by dorris
 
If you want to attack a piece of hardware, how about the iPOD, an overpriced, oversized MP3 player!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The iPod has been designed so that people can keep ALL their songs on one unit. A 40 GB iPod is really worth the money - find me another unit which can hold 10000 songs
[i aggree with the above! .Also the IPOD doesn't just store music! It stores all types]

cmcdonald

chamdo

09-09-2004, 06:39 PM

MAC can run programs that are created on Windows but Windows can NOT run MAC programs. Also Windows copies MAC in every way. www.macvspc.com is a site with lots of info.

cmcdonald

Chris

09-09-2004, 08:11 PM

Chamdo, plz get off this forum because you really are acting like a newbie[}:)]

Also an IPOD is not an external hard-drive, what have you been smoking??

Also iTunes doesn't play WMV so plz get off this forum [}:)]

Perdition

10-09-2004, 01:51 AM

If you have an iPod you are LOCKED into using iTunes as your online music service. RealNetworks have since cracked Apple's DRM (FairPlay) and now allow iPod users to download from their music service, Harmony. Of course Apple will probably kick up a legal fuss over this issue... seems Apple does not believe in freedom of choice (sound like a company we know? [;)])

Is iPod worth it? Well if you have a Mac, don't mind having no choice of music provider and can live with 128kbps encoding quality then yeah sure, otherwise steer very clear... the iPod is not all that and a bag of chips.

And chamdo... er why the hell would we want to run Mac programs on our PC's? Why do you think they created a PC emulator for Mac in the first place? To help you out it is because of the limited choice of software for Macs. No matter how pro Mac you are the simple hard fact is that the choice of software for Macs pales severely in comparision to PCs.

...and chamdo, the iPod was created by APPLE not Mac, for a pro Mac person you certainly don't seem to know an awful lot about the team you're playing for [;)]

kilps

10-09-2004, 07:33 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Perdition
 If you have an iPod you are LOCKED into using iTunes as your online music service. RealNetworks have since cracked Apple's DRM (FairPlay) and now allow iPod users to download from their music service, Harmony. Of course Apple will probably kick up a legal fuss over this issue... seems Apple does not believe in freedom of choice (sound like a company we know? [;)])

Is iPod worth it? Well if you have a Mac, don't mind having no choice of music provider and can live with 128kbps encoding quality then yeah sure, otherwise steer very clear... the iPod is not all that and a bag of chips.

And chamdo... er why the hell would we want to run Mac programs on our PC's? Why do you think they created a PC emulator for Mac in the first place? To help you out it is because of the limited choice of software for Macs. No matter how pro Mac you are the simple hard fact is that the choice of software for Macs pales severely in comparision to PCs.

...and chamdo, the iPod was created by APPLE not Mac, for a pro Mac person you certainly don't seem to know an awful lot about the team you're playing for [;)]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The reason Apple has done this is to combat illeagal music - one has to admit that restricting the sources of music to the program is a good way to do this.

kilps

10-09-2004, 07:42 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by martin
[br
kilps, as I mentioned before comparing the Mac with the PC is like comparing apples with oranges. I'm not trying to state that the one is better than the other but in every case it depends on what your needs are.

Your creative types (designers, sound engineers, writers etc...) tend to love the Mac and the software it offers, while the serious gamers prefer the PC because of upgrade costs and availability of games. This is by no means the norm, you can certainly do video editing on a PC and do gaming on a Mac. Your experience may differ though.

My point is they both have their role and saying we should just stick to one (because it's apparently better) is really just taking away our freedom of choice.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Most people cannot afford to own two computers - as long as one is willing to only play major game titles (at least for the moment - more and more games are comming out for Macs) the Mac is the better platform - it is reliable, it can run PC programs with Virtual PC (but a PC cannot run Mac programs with any emulator I know of - please correct me if I am wrong) etc. What besides gaming is a Windows computer good for?

martin

10-09-2004, 01:46 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kilps
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by martin
[br
kilps, as I mentioned before comparing the Mac with the PC is like comparing apples with oranges. I'm not trying to state that the one is better than the other but in every case it depends on what your needs are.

Your creative types (designers, sound engineers, writers etc...) tend to love the Mac and the software it offers, while the serious gamers prefer the PC because of upgrade costs and availability of games. This is by no means the norm, you can certainly do video editing on a PC and do gaming on a Mac. Your experience may differ though.

My point is they both have their role and saying we should just stick to one (because it's apparently better) is really just taking away our freedom of choice.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Most people cannot afford to own two computers - as long as one is willing to only play major game titles (at least for the moment - more and more games are comming out for Macs) the Mac is the better platform - it is reliable, it can run PC programs with Virtual PC (but a PC cannot run Mac programs with any emulator I know of - please correct me if I am wrong) etc. What besides gaming is a Windows computer good for?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

kilps did you even read the post? I never said go buy two computers. That was not the point. Reread my post, especially the last paragraph.

anakin

10-09-2004, 01:48 PM

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/?http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/news_story.php?id=63082

Friday 10th September 2004

Apple named top innovator in past 75 years
[PC Pro] 10:37

Apple has been named the most innovative company of the past 75 years in a poll of senior business executives, but its CEO, Steve Jobs, narrowly lost out to Microsoft's Bill Gates as the most innovative CEO.
In the survey, conducted to mark BusinessWeek's 75th anniversary, Apple received 35 per cent as opposed to Microsoft's 32 per cent in the company category, but the three per cent difference was reversed for the CEO vote, which gave Gates 50 per cent to Jobs' 47. Arguably the results say more about the mentality of senior execs than they do about the two CEOs and the companies they built. Certainly it is easy to think of areas where Apple and Jobs have innovated - the first Macintosh, the iMac, USB, wireless networking, FireWire, industrial design; it is not so easy to identify where Microsoft has.

The discovery of DNA, the personal computer, the Internet, television and the polio vaccine were named as the greatest innovations, while Web-inventor Time Berners-Lee was beaten only by Steven Spielberg in the 'esteemed personalities and individuals vote.

The full results will be published in the 11 October issue of BusinessWeek; for more information and selected extracts see the press release.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>
My views are mine, and mine alone. irc://za.shadowfire.org/iburst</center>

kilps

10-09-2004, 02:17 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by martin
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kilps
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by martin
[br
kilps, as I mentioned before comparing the Mac with the PC is like comparing apples with oranges. I'm not trying to state that the one is better than the other but in every case it depends on what your needs are.

Your creative types (designers, sound engineers, writers etc...) tend to love the Mac and the software it offers, while the serious gamers prefer the PC because of upgrade costs and availability of games. This is by no means the norm, you can certainly do video editing on a PC and do gaming on a Mac. Your experience may differ though.

My point is they both have their role and saying we should just stick to one (because it's apparently better) is really just taking away our freedom of choice.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Most people cannot afford to own two computers - as long as one is willing to only play major game titles (at least for the moment - more and more games are comming out for Macs) the Mac is the better platform - it is reliable, it can run PC programs with Virtual PC (but a PC cannot run Mac programs with any emulator I know of - please correct me if I am wrong) etc. What besides gaming is a Windows computer good for?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

kilps did you even read the post? I never said go buy two computers. That was not the point. Reread my post, especially the last paragraph.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I understand what you are saying - but if both have their role then some people may need to use both - what I am saying is that with a Mac one can have t he best of both worlds

martin

10-09-2004, 03:28 PM

So you're saying Macs are just as affordable to everyone and that the emulators run every piece of PC software perfectly without loss of speed. If that is the case then yes, I have to agree with you.

Perdition

10-09-2004, 08:08 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kilps
 The reason Apple has done this is to combat illeagal music - one has to admit that restricting the sources of music to the program is a good way to do this.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I wasn't arguing the fact that they are using DRM, but the fact they won't license FairPlay to any other LEGAL music service thus restricting everyone with an iPod to using iTunes. Think about it, you've bought the iPod and you would like to use it how you wish but Apple is basically forcing you to use their service. I don't know about you but if I own something it's mine to do with as I wish. Contrast this with Microsoft who are licensing WMA to anyone who wants it because they know ultimately the consumer wants CHOICE.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kilps
 Most people cannot afford to own two computers - as long as one is willing to only play major game titles (at least for the moment - more and more games are comming out for Macs) the Mac is the better platform - it is reliable, it can run PC programs with Virtual PC (but a PC cannot run Mac programs with any emulator I know of - please correct me if I am wrong) etc. What besides gaming is a Windows computer good for?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Myself and 99% of the users in this forum find absolutely no limitation with a PC. There is not one thing I've found a Mac to do better than a PC and not one time I wished I had a Mac (and I have used BOTH). As far as reliability goes I have not had a problem since the days of Windows 95/98 and that was a long time ago.

chamdo

11-09-2004, 06:39 PM

[/quote And chamdo... er why the hell would we want to run Mac programs on our PC's? Why do you think they created a PC emulator for Mac in the first place? To help you out it is because of the limited choice of software for Macs. No matter how pro Mac you are the simple hard fact is that the choice of software for Macs pales severely in comparision to PCs.

...and chamdo, the iPod was created by APPLE not Mac, for a pro Mac person you certainly don't seem to know an awful lot about the team you're playing for [;)]]

Mac Programs such as imovie and itunes are really handy fro editing and sp maybe you would like that on your crappy PC. Apple and mac = same thing! Apple Macintosh! The choice of software for macs is limited?! Well mac gets it right first time unlike PC who have to pracise before they get it right!

cmcdonald

chamdo

11-09-2004, 06:42 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dominic Rooney
 Chamdo, plz get off this forum because you really are acting like a newbie[}:)] WHAT is that supposed to mean?

Also an IPOD is not an external hard-drive, what have you been smoking??

Also iTunes doesn't play WMV so plz get off this forum [}:)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Question if the IPOD isn't an external hard drive then what is it? Something that is a drive that stores info that is not internal is an external drive!

cmcdonald

chamdo

11-09-2004, 06:45 PM

I am going to start a new topic about the IPOD as this seems to come up a lot. On the topic IPOD i think is expensive but effective. It can be used for a number of things!

cmcdonald

kilps

11-09-2004, 08:07 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dominic Rooney
 Chamdo, plz get off this forum because you really are acting like a newbie[}:)]

Also an IPOD is not an external hard-drive, what have you been smoking??

Also iTunes doesn't play WMV so plz get off this forum [}:)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

WRONG - A iPod can be used as an external harddrive (the iPod uses a hard drive to store your 40G of songs) you shoul really take a look at the za store (www.zastore.co.za) you can find out alot more about Apple products and you can educate your self about the iPod.

I also recomend that anyone who lives near to a Apple shop (i.e. project 3 [www.project3.co.za]) go and take a look at a Mac most people I have talked to and support Windows only claim Macs are terrable - with out even having used one! Just trying out a new G5 runing Mac OS X will change your views completly.

I work with both Macs and Windows computers - the Windows works - sure! But the Mac outpaces it completly OS 9 does just about the same as XP, and OS X, well, it makes XP look like the stone age.

kilps

11-09-2004, 08:14 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jerrek
 Gee people like funny things like necrophelia and iMacs. I've got nothing against Macs, just iMacs in particular, and any computer that is designed to look "cute" and put the word "functionality" in the same sentences as "one-button mouse." Great OS, great hardware (except the mouse and the iMac). I would dearly love to have an Apple laptop. The ones without a mouse. It will be used strictly for email/docs/web. Nothing important runs on Mac so you still need a PC. A PC with a five-button mouse and wheel.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I can't see what you see wrong with iMacs - sure, maby a little over expensive - but I haven't seen many PC's designed for Windows looking anything like a Mac.

Actually a iMac is not THAT expensive, considering the overall benifits of a Mac and you get a monitor built in [:D].

I think you should take a look at the new iMac G5, http://www.apple.com/za/imac/

kilps

11-09-2004, 08:31 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dominic Rooney
 Anyway Kilps,the 115 page document is probably completley biased towards MaC and doesn't see what Windows programs can do the same thing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The 115 page document (avalable from www.macvspc.info) does focus on the benifits of Macs - but then find me 115 pages on the benifts of Windows. I really think you should take a look at it - even if you only read the summery - you will learn alot.

The document has been compiled from survays, court cases against Microsoft and olot of other sources. It will make any Windows user think twice (I recon most WIndows users who will not touch a Mac do so because the fell 'comfitable', what they have works and the can live with it - they just are too lazy to go out and find something better) for example, the author recons that IT people recoment Windows for two reasons; 1: job security, if the computers didn't crash - what would we need IT people for? 2: control, to any un-educated person who uses Windows, the IT people are 'gods' they are the one who can bring their dead computer back to life.

Chris

11-09-2004, 08:54 PM

You need 115 pages of benefits of Windows, 90% the world runs Windows.

So the world can't be wrong can they?

Perdition

12-09-2004, 10:58 AM

This is a pointless argument as people will stick to their platform of choice. Personally I don't need my computer to match my curtains and I think you're a sucker paying twice the price for the "privilege".

Following the ZA store link above I see that the lowest Mac (eMac) costs R7,609.00 and here is what you get :

1.25GHz PowerPC G4
256MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive
(CD reader/writer & DVD reader)

You must be freakin' crazy to pay 7 g's for this. For 7 g's you can get a PC that will easily pummel this thing into the ground. But wait, it gets better! For R9,989.00 you get this :

1.25GHz PowerPC G4
256MB SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
(CD reader/writer & DVD reader/writer)

So basically you're paying over R2000 for a DVD writer and an extra 40 gigs of HD space. You must be on crack if you think this is a good deal. Seriously you guys can keep your Macs, I'm sure you sleep fine knowing Apple ripped you off.

kilps

12-09-2004, 03:33 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Perdition
 This is a pointless argument as people will stick to their platform of choice. Personally I don't need my computer to match my curtains and I think you're a sucker paying twice the price for the "privilege".

Following the ZA store link above I see that the lowest Mac (eMac) costs R7,609.00 and here is what you get :

1.25GHz PowerPC G4
256MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive
(CD reader/writer & DVD reader)

You must be freakin' crazy to pay 7 g's for this. For 7 g's you can get a PC that will easily pummel this thing into the ground. But wait, it gets better! For R9,989.00 you get this :

1.25GHz PowerPC G4
256MB SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
(CD reader/writer & DVD reader/writer)

So basically you're paying over R2000 for a DVD writer and an extra 40 gigs of HD space. You must be on crack if you think this is a good deal. Seriously you guys can keep your Macs, I'm sure you sleep fine knowing Apple ripped you off.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OK - you are forgeting the benifits of owning a Mac - also - I must remind you a iMac/eMac comes WITH THE SCREEN.

You also get to use a brilliant OS as well.

Perdition

12-09-2004, 04:13 PM

Comes with the screen? Bwahahahaha, that's not exactly a feature and it still does not justify the price. These "benefits" are still eluding me. When you want to upgrade you basically have to buy a whole new machine!

kilps

12-09-2004, 05:05 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dominic Rooney
 You need 115 pages of benefits of Windows, 90% the world runs Windows.

So the world can't be wrong can they?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well - you are forgeting my original argument - the whole point of me arguing this is to try and convince people Macs are the better option.

(0% of the world running Windows? Who are crazy! about 90% of the world is living in poverty - not running Windows.

Anyway - even if 90%% of the world ran Windows what the we need to do is educate these unfortunate people.

Buy the way - most figures for what % of people use what are wrong as a Intel/Windows computer needs to be replaysed every +-4 years while a Mac can run for +6 years.

kilps

12-09-2004, 05:19 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Perdition
 Comes with the screen? Bwahahahaha, that's not exactly a feature and it still does not justify the price. These "benefits" are still eluding me. When you want to upgrade you basically have to buy a whole new machine!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You may be paying more - but you are paying for quality and a Mac that will last 6 years

Chris

12-09-2004, 05:28 PM

Kilps. you could just buy some anti-virus software with a Windows PC and still have money left over from buying an Imac or eMAC.

Because one of the so-called 'benefits' is that it's (basically) virus free.

Perdition

12-09-2004, 06:41 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kilps
 You may be paying more - but you are paying for quality and a Mac that will last 6 years
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The reason people upgrade their PC's so frequently is more a result of entertainment than necessity. You can still run general office apps just fine on a PII (which is more than 6 years old) but obviously it does not run the latest games very well. Also because PC's are so cheap people don't mind upgrading. Most people don't have R12000 to buy a new iMac every few years but with just R4000 you can upgrade a PC significantly.

As for reliability, I have a PIII which is about 7 years old running as a server and have never had a problem with it. It runs pretty much 24/7 as well, so there goes your reliability argument [;)]

kilps

13-09-2004, 10:22 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dominic Rooney
 Kilps. you could just buy some anti-virus software with a Windows PC and still have money left over from buying an Imac or eMAC.

Because one of the so-called 'benefits' is that it's (basically) virus free.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Anti-virus software does not catch all Windows viruses, and I am not saying that Macs have no Viruses, on my Mac I do use a anti-virus program (Virex), but I do not need it as much as I need the one on my Windows computer (every time I scan my Windows PC I find a Virus, but when I scan the Mac I don't get any Viruses.

There are alot more 'benifits' than that.

All that I ask you for now is to try out a Mac

Chris

13-09-2004, 10:29 AM

I dont needa iMAC. I'm very happy with the Windows pc's and anti-virus software. Also imac are very expensive and I still don't see any reason to convert.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
End of Argument

kilps

13-09-2004, 10:31 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Perdition
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kilps
 You may be paying more - but you are paying for quality and a Mac that will last 6 years
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The reason people upgrade their PC's so frequently is more a result of entertainment than necessity. You can still run general office apps just fine on a PII (which is more than 6 years old) but obviously it does not run the latest games very well. Also because PC's are so cheap people don't mind upgrading. Most people don't have R12000 to buy a new iMac every few years but with just R4000 you can upgrade a PC significantly.

As for reliability, I have a PIII which is about 7 years old running as a server and have never had a problem with it. It runs pretty much 24/7 as well, so there goes your reliability argument [;)]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

With all the benifits its worth the extra cost - and you save in hardly having to maintain your Mac.

Why don't you take a look at 'Why to switch' at www.apple.co.za

All that I ask is that you try out a Mac - kilps

dorris

13-09-2004, 11:18 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I can't see what you see wrong with iMacs - sure, maby a little over expensive - but I haven't seen many PC's designed for Windows looking anything like a Mac.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thats exactly the point, purchasing a MAC locks you into one brand of OS only, and limited products for that OS only, whereas a PC, one gets the functionality of whatever one chooses, with several available Linux Distro's, to suit your needs, or windows, for the rest.
Compatibility and drivers are a big part of the continuation of PC's, I wouldn't buy a mac, for the reason that from that point on, I can only buy mac compatible hardware.
I don't say macs are bad, just that they are too limiting to the brand!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
With all the benifits its worth the extra cost - and you save in hardly having to maintain your Mac.

Why don't you take a look at 'Why to switch' at www.apple.co.za

All that I ask is that you try out a Mac - kilps<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Give me the + R10000, and I'll 'try it out'.

kilps

13-09-2004, 12:26 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dorris
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I can't see what you see wrong with iMacs - sure, maby a little over expensive - but I haven't seen many PC's designed for Windows looking anything like a Mac.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thats exactly the point, purchasing a MAC locks you into one brand of OS only, and limited products for that OS only, whereas a PC, one gets the functionality of whatever one chooses, with several available Linux Distro's, to suit your needs, or windows, for the rest.
Compatibility and drivers are a big part of the continuation of PC's, I wouldn't buy a mac, for the reason that from that point on, I can only buy mac compatible hardware.
I don't say macs are bad, just that they are too limiting to the brand!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
With all the benifits its worth the extra cost - and you save in hardly having to maintain your Mac.

Why don't you take a look at 'Why to switch' at www.apple.co.za

All that I ask is that you try out a Mac - kilps<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Give me the + R10000, and I'll 'try it out'.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What I mean by try out a Mac is that you go to a Mac centre and try it out in the shop.

Also you are not limited to Mac hardware - I ahev got third-party CD-writers, scanners and printers to work with my Mac.

What do you mean by 'limiting'? Tell me!

All that I ask is that you try out a Mac - kilps

kilps

13-09-2004, 12:30 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dominic Rooney
 I dont needa iMAC. I'm very happy with the Windows pc's and anti-virus software. Also imac are very expensive and I still don't see any reason to convert.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
End of Argument
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

REMEMBER - you don't have to buy a iMac.

Why don't you just visit a Mac shop and try one out - you will have to admit they are brilliant

All that I ask is that you try out a Mac - kilps

martin

13-09-2004, 01:34 PM

I have nothing against Macs and even though I don't own one I've had a fair amount of exposure to them. My former roommate was a graphic designer and I know quite a few sound engineers who use Macs. It's great that there's more than just the PC platform available.

BUT

kilps, your attempts at converting pc users are becoming rather sad. You think Mac is the better platform, well that's great! But it remains your opinion. I think we've established that you're not willing to change you opinion and the other people are not willing to change their's. You're beating a dead horse mate and this thread will turn into a flame-war at some stage if it carries on this way.

chamdo

13-09-2004, 08:13 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dominic Rooney
 You need 115 pages of benefits of Windows, 90% the world runs Windows.

So the world can't be wrong can they?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

CORRECTION 90% of South Africa runs Windows. Look at the USA and Europe. Also the poorer companies use windows and furthermore the marketing of MAC is useless.

cmcdonald

Perdition

14-09-2004, 02:45 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kilps
 Why don't you take a look at 'Why to switch' at www.apple.co.za
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Of course Apple will make their products look like sunshine and daisies on their website, all companies do this including Microsoft and Intel. I never by any company's propaganda and always research a product before buying it.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kilps
 Why don't you just visit a Mac shop and try one out - you will have to admit they are brilliant
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well I have tried one and while it looks pretty and has a GUI that you "want to lick" I still didn't find anything it did better or faster than my MUCH cheaper PC. I don't need things like iMovie and certainly wouldn't fork out that much cash just to use it.

Anyway like martin said this will just degenerate into a flame war, your argument has not been convincing enough to persuade anybody so let's put it to rest [;)]

andres101

14-09-2004, 09:36 AM

everybody i know that work on mac's, use them only at work. they all say that mac's are much better than pc's, but they all have pc's at home...

i would like to try out a mac, but i will not fork over the cash for one.

regarding reliability, mac's might be more reliable, but only becuase they force you to buy quility hardware. if you buy quility pc harware (and don't run windows), your system could be just as reliable.

there are more viruses for windows than any other os, but that doesn't mean that the other os's are more secure, it only means that there are more windows machines (or gulable windows users).

Perdition

14-09-2004, 09:53 PM

I don't find OS X to be more reliable than XP. Most stability issues in XP stem from poorly written third party drivers or applications. Viruses and spyware count as applications in this context. People who create viruses target Windows purely because it is the most popular platform and therefore the viruses will have a wider impact. I guarantee that if the Mac suddenly became the most popular platform virus writers would target it.

The only people I know who use Macs at work are those in the advertising or entertainment industry and these people generally believe that if it looks better it is better. They don't have much in the way of computer smarts and this is why I avoid PC vs Mac arguments with them because they are just not informed enough (even though they believe they are). The hardware in the G5 is no doubt impressive (I have in depth knowledge of the architecture) but it still is overpriced for what you get.

chamdo

20-09-2004, 07:03 PM

I think that this has come to an end and no one has anything more to say. HOWEVER, I think that those who are arguing against macs should try a mac out and then they will have a foot to stand on. And those attacking PC should try one. I work on both systems myself and find the one is useful for some things whilst the other is good for other things. Obviously having both is expensive and so my choice is the MAC. I run my mac at home and use PC's at school. I think that there is no comparison because MAC slaughters PC in a fight but that is just my view. I THINK YOU SHOULD TRY ONE OUT. ROONEY YOU SHOULD DEFINETLY TRY ONE OUT AS YOU ARE ONE OF THE STRONGEST FIGHTERS AGAINST MACS! YET YOU KNOW NOTHING. BY THE WAY YOUR ENGLISH IS TERRIBLE.

cmcdonald

Chris

21-09-2004, 05:46 PM

*cough*

let's look at all chamdo's grammitical errors
Oh sorry, it will take many hours to sort through that junk.

antowan

21-09-2004, 06:42 PM

Spot the link between how this topic started and this one http://www.myadsl.co.za/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4864

Clever marketing on Apple's part?

Regards
Antowan

### What we need in South Africa is cheap 24/7, always on Internet for under R300 a month. ###

kilps

22-09-2004, 12:19 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by antowan
 Spot the link between how this topic started and this one http://www.myadsl.co.za/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4864

Clever marketing on Apple's part?

Regards
Antowan

### What we need in South Africa is cheap 24/7, always on Internet for under R300 a month. ###
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Check the end of the iPod debate

All that I ask is that you try out a Mac - kilps

Spamtheman

22-09-2004, 01:29 PM

I sincerely doubt that Apple would spend any money on two complete morons to market their product. They'd stand more chance of selling me an apple if they tatoo'd their logo onto the foreheads of Islamic Jihadists and sent them to burn down my house.

martin

22-09-2004, 05:43 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Spamtheman
 I sincerely doubt that Apple would spend any money on two complete morons to market their product. They'd stand more chance of selling me an apple if they tatoo'd their logo onto the foreheads of Islamic Jihadists and sent them to burn down my house.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Now that would be cool if you're house is properly insured. [:D]

r_zor@mac.com

15-03-2006, 11:11 AM

nic777

15-03-2006, 11:24 AM

bwana

15-03-2006, 11:28 AM

uhm....
Last post: 22-09-2004 05:43 PMlol - really blew the dust off that one. :D

web

15-03-2006, 11:32 AM

AcidRaZor

15-03-2006, 11:50 AM

I work on both PC and MAC (PC at home, MAC at work) and I have to say that I prefer MAC. It is much less complecated. There is no uninstalling, you just delete. On PC you have to uninstall. If you delete the uninstall file, it stays in the memory.

MAC's are much more stable and have a lot of backup systems.

I would like to kick this guy in the balls. I currently have a windows network and 5 macs. I can tell you this.

In no way is a mac stable AT ANY TIME. Yes, sure, to uninstall something you drag it to the trash, but it's a total nightmare on a mac just to get the right fonts working!? Sometimes the Mac even refuses to connect to the network and you have to reboot the whole damn thing!

Much less complicated? Have you ever tried pinging another Mac? Or get to the system information while you have 3 programs open? You have to constantly either close your programs or use short cuts.

The only thing NOT complicated about a mac is it's one mouse button, and even then, selecting a few files and trying to copy them is a mission!!

Mac is the only OS I know of that when you click and drag files off your CD ROM, it doesn't actually COPY them but makes shortcuts to the CD!

supersunbird

15-03-2006, 11:57 AM

I'm don't use a Mac or anything, but come on, Windows IP stack is a nightmare, I have had nothing but problems with networks with only TCP/IP on them (PC not getting seen on the network, one seeing the other, the other not even seeing itself), I always need install netbeui too and then have networking goodness.

bwana

15-03-2006, 02:20 PM

I would like to kick this guy in the balls. I currently have a windows network and 5 macs. I can tell you this.

In no way is a mac stable AT ANY TIME. Yes, sure, to uninstall something you drag it to the trash, but it's a total nightmare on a mac just to get the right fonts working!? Sometimes the Mac even refuses to connect to the network and you have to reboot the whole damn thing!

Much less complicated? Have you ever tried pinging another Mac? Or get to the system information while you have 3 programs open? You have to constantly either close your programs or use short cuts.

The only thing NOT complicated about a mac is it's one mouse button, and even then, selecting a few files and trying to copy them is a mission!!

Mac is the only OS I know of that when you click and drag files off your CD ROM, it doesn't actually COPY them but makes shortcuts to the CD!What version are you using?? :confused: I just hid all the open windows (with exposé), installed a set of windows and mac fonts (with font book), pulled the system info down from the ever present Apple menu, and dragged and copied a file off a cd without making a shortcut. All this in 1/4 of the time it took to type the reply. Its also the easiest thing in the world to network.

Do yourself a favor and upgrade your OS :)