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View Full Version : Pazienza - for now



Arthur
07-02-2005, 02:54 PM
After reading all the rants about service and problems, problems, problems ... here's a modest plea for patience.

Dear Ranters:

Guys - WBS is setting up this operation from scratch. Yes, they've had a wireless network service for some years, but it's a closed group, and very different from a public consumer broadband business.

Apart from the technical network implementation, there is obviously a timeline for establishing and ramping up business operations like customer databases, billing systems, call centres, support, management, new hires -- not to speak of classic GLAPPR and BICARSA apps (for business acronym n00bs: General Ledger, Accounts Payable, Payroll; Billing, Inventory Control, Accounts Receivable, and Sales Analysis). These are not trivial exercises, and cannot be done overnight.

Now, as I see it, any new venture can take broadly two routes to market:

1. Get everything done before signing up anyone at all.
2. Do things in parallel

Route 1 is very very expensive and means the system cannot be stress tested with anything other than a handful of internal users. Upfront costs are very high (network charges, equipment capital and installation costs, staff hiring and training, etc, etc) and this profoundly affects the charging model once you roll out. The risk-response-ramp-return ratios are usually intolerable for start-up commercial operations.

Route 2 generally means you (a) start a small pilot as technical proof of concept, then (b) in an ante-marketing phase you ramp up (in hi-tech world, as rapidly as possible) on a clear business & technical plan, ironing out issues as they arise; (c) when ready, launch and market, with sound plans to manage quality and growth.

Right now iBurst is in 2(b). This is one of the hardest phases of a business to manage. Pre-launch customers are tech-savvy, their demands dramatically exceed capacity of support staff to respond. Mgmt and staff, existing on 3 hours sleep a night, are trying to resolve more urgent issues. Note the difference between urgent and important - I'm sure WBS know customers are very very very important (they're a commercial private business, remember, not a police-protected monopoly) ... but they also know they won't have cusomers for very long if their basic business processes and technical infrastructure don't operate smoothly - and they are in a critical start-up phase, remember.

So, my plea to current iBursters: it's premature to start bad-mouthing and denigrating and generally venting spleen. Surely SA's only private commercial non-state broadband supplier needs every bit of encouragement and support we can give them during this ciritical part of their pre-launch business.

Frankly, any person past the age of 12 should know enough about the real-world business start-ups to expect issues, problems, delays, hassles, intermittent degradations, confusion, internal and external comms issues, etc. Our presence on their network is helping them resolve issues, train staff, and get the hundreds of other internal systems, processes and procedures going. Hopefully our early participation will be accomplished as productively as possible, helping them to the point where they can confidently say "we're ready" and launch the service publicly. Generally, I believe they're aware of the problems and issues before we pre-commercial users are - and of dozens that we are not (just look at your own business). What they need now is encouragement. Problems can be reported in a way that is encouraging and positive, rather than a negative denigration and put-down.

And because we're getting pipe (which is costing them dearly, via UUnet, from Telkom's robber-baroning of infrapipe) it's only right that we should be paying something. I'm shocked to see some of the loudest shouters on these forums bragging about sucking a gig a day, and then complaining!

And before the flames-throwers spew: No, I'm not excusing bad service from established businesses. I constantly demand and insist on quality service - and regularly compain when I don't receive what I pay for - usually straight to the top. I've made aggressive submission to ICASA and government about Telkom's gouging, and have been even been arrested by another state monopoly for refusing to cease my insistence on decent service. However, I've also been in the real world long enough to know that constant negativity at the wrong time can kill a start-up's enthusiam for the business.

By all means throw your toys out the cot once the whole service is up and running and it's still not working right. But it's too early now.

For anyone who's every worked in a start-up operation, you know it takes a while for new hires to get up to speed, especially when basic business tools are also a work in process. Yes, we are paying users and it's fair to expect equivalent value for our hard-earned cash ... but please remember, we're using a system that has not been publicly launched yet. How many times must it be said that even WBS does not believe they're ready for prime time. That's says to me they know there are issues. And judging by what they've accomplished from scratch in 4 or 5 months, this company knows how to do incredible things in an incredibly short time. They know they're not quite ready for launch, and we know that, otherwise they would have launched already. So ranting does nothing but spread more s**t in an ever crappy world. Bad-mouthed hollering is always rude and unproductive. Rather more helpful is to take a positive attitide of wanting to help resolve issues, calmly reporting faults and performance problems, suggesting improvements, etc.

I for one am glad to be part of this massive install-and-ramp-up exercise at this early stage (was a pilot user last year). Yes, it's not perfect yet, but considering where they were just 4 months ago, they're well on their way to accomplishing the impossible. For that reason, I'm holding off complaints until WBS says "we're ready". Once they're established, we and the market will (and should) judge them as we would any other business. Yet even then, I'm personally more biased to private commercial businesses than to state-owned monopolies (or pseudo ex-monopolies) ...

Laissez faire! And a little pazienza. For now.

PS. I have nothing whatsoever to do with WBS.

Raithlin
07-02-2005, 02:58 PM
Well said.

bb_matt
07-02-2005, 03:18 PM
Is it well said ? - hmmm.

You have to understand that as consumers, people are demanding and really don't care who the provider is, so long as they get what they perceive as value for money.

Your post is a great one, but at the end of the day, does Joe Consumer really care how much work it's taking to get this service of the ground ?

No. They don't.

The early adopters will be your most vocal crowd - view them as you see them - a whining, whinging bunch of miscreants and then adjust your services to suit.


Frankly, any person past the age of 12 should know enough about the real-world business start-ups to expect issues

Yes, but why should they care ?
If it's not thier business, do they give a damn ? NO
What they want is SERVICE.
They want what they have been promised as a paying customer and why should they be interested in excuses ?

If I go to a new mens hairdressers and they mess up my hair really badly and then say "oh, but we're new to this, we're just starting up" - what does that mean to me, the consumer ? - yep, I've got a bad haircut, that's all it means to me.

Bottom line - WBS are Lucky to have a bunch of early adopters to test thier service and if they whine about it, well, tough - live with it !

Gatecrasher
07-02-2005, 03:41 PM
Can't believe I'm agreeing with BB_Matt, but I am. As consumers, we cannot be cowed or rationalized into silence. If something isn't right, complain, complain, complain. It is the only way you are going to get the service you are striving for.

Personally, I don't care what mountains WBS have to climb. At the end of the day, they need to provide a good, reliable service at a decent price. Achieiving that will be the most effective way to silence their critics, and grow their business.

It's in nobody's interest to make excuses, and go easy on them, least of all theirs.

Having said that, kudus where they are due: my Iburst experience has been awesome over the past two weeks. ;)

stoke
07-02-2005, 04:12 PM
Well - if the consumer is paying full price then the consumer is entitled to full service.
The End.

ic
07-02-2005, 04:21 PM
Arthur, you tempt me too much ;)

I will however ask you these questions:
Are you at present using iBurst?
If you are currently an iBurst customer, have you experienced all of the disconnectivity problems experienced & reported by others on the forum?
Do you believe that WBS have failed to communicate properly and in a timely manner with their customers? If not, why not?

Nickste
07-02-2005, 04:30 PM
Agreed with Stoke. If they not going to deliver on 100% of what is promised, then consumer should not pay the full price.

bb_matt
07-02-2005, 04:36 PM
Can't believe I'm agreeing with BB_Matt

and why is that exactly ? - have you "got me down" as a bit of a BS artist or something ? ;)

hentie
07-02-2005, 05:15 PM
Hi Arthur,

I must say that i agree fully. One thing though. WBS could really just keep their trial subscribers more informed. I think everybody agrees that there will be hick ups in this first few months. I think they have come far these past few weeks, but there is still room for improvement :rolleyes:

bb_matt
07-02-2005, 05:18 PM
hentie, so you'll agree that consumers must suffer while the sellers fix thier screw-ups ?

Hmmm.

ic
07-02-2005, 05:59 PM
Let me put my thumb on the underlying issue here (it has been said before by many iBursters & Burst-iz alike):

WBS needs to communicate with us, whether we are beta-testers, consumers, customers, clients, wingy mona-lisas, dumbasses & jackasses, you name it - whatever...


How can any company expect to improve their beta product & service [that their beta-testers are actually paying to test] when said company does not communicate & give feedback, or even acknowledge the feedback from beta-testers?

BTW, that was rhetorical, so please don't answer. I also think we are all far more than beta-testers, and I know we all (iBurst customers) want WBS to succeed & deliver, we just want WBS to be open & honest & communicate - not too much to ask IMO. Come on WBS, communicate - we will forgive you :)

<disclaimer>I do not speak for everyone, I speak for my multiple personalities that all agree with me on this issue.</disclaimer>

Gatecrasher
07-02-2005, 06:10 PM
and why is that exactly ? - have you "got me down" as a bit of a BS artist or something ? ;)

:D Nah, I just disagreed with http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=17215

aborg
07-02-2005, 08:47 PM
When do we get an e-mail server.....? that's all :-)

ic
07-02-2005, 08:55 PM
When do we get an e-mail server.....? that's all :-)2005-03-31:D23:59:59

aborg
07-02-2005, 09:02 PM
thx ic i'll be standing by - as a semi tech savvy consumer I am 85% satisfied the other 15% has to do with disconnects at inappropriate times and variable speed otherwise things have been peachy.
I just can't come to terms with 3GB's plz plz plz make it 6GB's and I won't whine anymore....hehe.

Arthur
08-02-2005, 06:28 AM
Valid points made by all.
I'm NOT defending bad service.
And, yes, WBS have not communicated well. The biggest ommission, in my view, is not setting pre-launch expectations, ie not making it crystal clear upfront that pre-launch service will have plenty of problems. And perhaps they should have pitched the pre-launch price quite a bit lower - say R150-R200 per month.

ic: Yes, I am an iBurst user. But I must confess to still using ADSL (from same location) during business hours because I need reliable communications.

I for one am holding off the flame-thrower until the service launches. That's also when I decide on whether to cancel ADSL or iBurst.

NTC
08-02-2005, 08:32 AM
I agree fully with Arthur. I will be signing up with iBurst down here in the Cape within the next few days because I believe they are the only technologically viable alternative to landline-based ADSL (assuming, of course, they sort out their issues before 31-3-05). You don't need a degree in rocket science to figure out that Sentech jumped the bandwagon in their haste to compete with Telkom and thus launched an immature technology that will only be fixed by investing R100m's more. You can, of course, go with the fly-by-night wireless operator who is illegally flogging an 802.11g connection from his backyard (doubtlessly using ADSL for his bandwidth and sharing it with 50 users). If you just look at the cost/MB to deliver a signal, iBurst comes out tops over 3G, Sentech, Wimax and all the rest. This simply adds up to one thing: if and when the price wars do begin (hopefully soon for our sakes), iBurst will be the only one to be able to compete with ADSL on a cost basis. So yes, I am willing to pay R454pm for now in the hope that things will work as they should by 31-3-05. If not I can always go back to paying R650 + landline rental for a 384kbps connection (which in my mind is still nothing short of daylight robbery). And I agree that WBS should communicate more with its customers and I will let them know that....that is the one thing that stands between them and success. Until it comes to launch I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to other issues.

bb_matt
08-02-2005, 10:33 AM
The problems for me will always be :-

1. High upfront cost if you want a month by month
2. Locked into a single provider
3. 3 gig cap

While it is cheaper than Telkom, those factors just turn me right off the service. There's no way I'd fork out R2800 and no way I'd sign a 24 month contract.

It's all a bit sad really, as I'd love to have a reliable non-Telkom high speed connection like iBurst. Bring the modem cost down and don't cap local access and heck, I'd sign up no problem.

slimothy
09-02-2005, 04:00 AM
6gb? thats a kick in the balls, i want a bigger option, 20 at least, i'll pay for that for sure

AcidRaZor
09-02-2005, 07:36 AM
Arthur,

I've been with Sentech from the beginning. When problems started a few months afterwards and basically their whole client base were unhappy, they only admitted there was a problem several months later.

a) They did not communicate to us AT ALL
b) They blamed the problems they were having on their customers, even though it was later discovered their proxy server was open to any capped ADSL user to leech from!
c) They ignored the problem hoping it will go away.

Now, this, from many of us here, is what is happening to WBS :

--> They're ignoring the problem and hope it will go away!

a Little communication goes a long way.

In response to your comment about GLAPPR and BICARSA apps. These people have been in testing phases with internal staff for over a year before their softlaunch. Any company worth it's salt would have these systems in place BEFORE ANY KIND OF LAUNCH does not matter if it's alpha, beta, theta or whatever you would love to call it seeing as you're a 1334 person.

Where money is exchanged, there must be systems in place to cope with it BEFOREHAND.

I think WBS has a brilliant concept for a product, I just feel their incompetence to get said systems in place before asking the public money, then not billing them for several months, then expect them to all have the money lying around in their bank account like we're all rich and powerful and deduct it off INCLUDING the next month's subscription WITHOUT NOTIFYING ANYONE of what they intend to do is beyond me.

I've ran several businesses. I should be making partner in the next couple of years with a small consultancy firm I started with 2 years ago. I KNOW HOW TO RUN ANY SIZED BUSINESS.

Too many cooks in the kitchen? Too much red tape? Or could it be that *gasp* they don't have any idea how to run a business?

They have enjoyed the profits of the national lottery, being the network provider for those money sucking machines. They had 1 client to deal with.... 1.

They now have several thousand end-user consumers to deal with. Now, Sentech figured the average user's IQ would be around 60... they were wrong. Who adopted the technology and loved it to bits in the beginning? Tech "savvy" people.

Word of mouth is a brilliant way to attract customers. And from what I hear, WBS has way surpassed Sentech's meager client base by far.

With great power comes great responsibility. When we were only several hundred users. Things were great, we punted the technology to our friends, I personally know of 14 people who signed up because of what I told them... Those 14 will get 14 etc etc etc

Their PABX system (the nice voice you now hear when calling help desk) took more than 3 months to be put in place. 3 MONTHS. Another thing they could have done BEFORE their so-called soft launch.

Then again, I doubt they expected to get as many users to sign up for their prelaunch. However, this brings me back to an interesting point I raised in the meeting with Sentech.

I asked their Marketing Manager, "So what type of market research did you do?" and she said "We did extensive market research"

I was cut short by TheRodent or some other dude, because I wanted to respond, "So you knew that the people who signed up for your service knows more than the whole support desk combined? Why did you ignore us till now?"

And then I would have burnt her clothes off with my raygun.

Point being, their market research is insuffiecient. Thumb suck at best. They have NO CLUE as to what the public wants. Telkom might seem to ignore its users, and shrug them off as the minority, but have you ever sat down and thought by yourself that they might be just ignorant and not have a clue as to what their public/consumer actually needs/wants?

Let me put it to you this way :

a 10 story building is burning down. the person who caused the fire did not call the fire brigade as soon as the fire started.

What happens?

People get hurt/killed and the building burns down. If the person who caused the fire immediately called the fire brigade, lives that were lost in scenario 1 would have been saved, and extensive damage to said building would also have been saved.

In the minds of the consumer, WBS is burning down. They might have had the fire brigade there the whole time, but WBS is burning down.

One thing I learnt in all my years, is that PERSPECTIVE and what people PERCEIVE counts more than what you're actually doing to resolve the problem. If WBS only communicates with their consumers in a timely fashion, these PERCEPTIONS would die alongside with the consumer's anger and frustration of the feeling of "being screwed again"

Nuff said... bring on the porn

AcidRaZor
09-02-2005, 07:39 AM
I agree fully with Arthur. I will be signing up with iBurst down here in the Cape within the next few days because I believe they are the only technologically viable alternative to landline-based ADSL (assuming, of course, they sort out their issues before 31-3-05). You don't need a degree in rocket science to figure out that Sentech jumped the bandwagon in their haste to compete with Telkom and thus launched an immature technology that will only be fixed by investing R100m's more. You can, of course, go with the fly-by-night wireless operator who is illegally flogging an 802.11g connection from his backyard (doubtlessly using ADSL for his bandwidth and sharing it with 50 users). If you just look at the cost/MB to deliver a signal, iBurst comes out tops over 3G, Sentech, Wimax and all the rest. This simply adds up to one thing: if and when the price wars do begin (hopefully soon for our sakes), iBurst will be the only one to be able to compete with ADSL on a cost basis. So yes, I am willing to pay R454pm for now in the hope that things will work as they should by 31-3-05. If not I can always go back to paying R650 + landline rental for a 384kbps connection (which in my mind is still nothing short of daylight robbery). And I agree that WBS should communicate more with its customers and I will let them know that....that is the one thing that stands between them and success. Until it comes to launch I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to other issues.

Who the **** ever said they're going to launch on the 31st of March? Their launch date is 1st of March you stupid stupid people

bb_matt
09-02-2005, 08:08 AM
either noone has got a hangover or he hasn't had his morning coffee yet :D

ic
09-02-2005, 09:36 AM
I suspect it's both :D

As for launch date - it was supposed to be "at the end of March 2005", which I interpret as being April Fools Day...

AcidRaZor
09-02-2005, 11:10 AM
Mmmm, the only thing I could find on their website about a launch date was a press release done on moneyweb stating end of Feb.

And no, due to work stress and deadlines, I have shortend the amount of relax time (aka, sleep) I get to boost my overall preformance @ work.

And again, no, I don't drink coffee. It only makes me hyper and I have some serious ADD when it comes to working, coffee only makes it worse... (thats why I post so much here during the day.... that and I type at 80 odd words a minute)

AcidRaZor
09-02-2005, 11:11 AM
IC, stop posting for g0d sakes! you have less than 10 posts to go and you'll beat me!

ic
09-02-2005, 11:15 AM
ROFL

Holy Monkey Dung, look at that!

8321
10-02-2005, 07:21 AM
As for launch date - it was supposed to be "at the end of March 2005", which I interpret as being April Fools Day...
The, so called, discounted price is until the end of March 2005. "for the duration of the soft launch" unquote.

ghoti
10-02-2005, 07:26 AM
Hey plebs.... post your problems on the hellopeter.com website, lets see what happens when a consumer watchdog gets involved

AcidRaZor
10-02-2005, 07:30 AM
The, so called, discounted price is until the end of March 2005. "for the duration of the soft launch" unquote.

Yes, you pay a month in advance you dope head, meaning, 1st march is their official launch date and people signing up will pay *gasp* the full price

stoke
10-02-2005, 01:35 PM
Sheesh - pick up the phone and ask them.

ic
10-02-2005, 01:39 PM
Noone, dude, launch does not start on any day in the month of March 2005 - it is still pre-launch up to & including 2005-03-31. As to whether launch will be delayed, anyones guess...

AcidRaZor
10-02-2005, 02:25 PM
jy praat ***, now where's my porn?!