Non Profit ISP to ensure the lowest bandwidth costs

[Lightscribe]

I wrote this in another thread. I feel it needs a thread of it's own.

Fact: Many new cables are coming in the next few years.

Fact: Competition drives down prices.

Fact: The prices will drop, as each new cable is launched, through to 2014.

Nothing has yet come, from all the conversation on the MyBB forum, about getting together, to start an ISP for all, to purchase bulk bandwidth from an outside provider, like the new cable company's, in order to sell at almost cost price.

It can be done...

1) We start a Section 21, Non Profit Company. At least 20 founder members, meeting weekly, bi-monthly or at a minimum, monthly. Nationally renowned attorneys and auditors will be used to oversee the NPO.

2) Staff is drawn from the founder members first. Only the small number of staff salaries, medical aid and pension, will need to be covered by the small markup on bulk bandwidth, purchased for resale.

3) Office rental is not required if staff are on laptops, with VOIP or Video conferencing, "working from home". After all, Bandwidth won't be a problem anymore...

Our mission statement: True, Non Profit, Lowest Cost Bandwidth for all.

IM me and let's pool our knowledge to get a proper business plan, founder member list and company name started.

[Pilgrim]

I like your idea, but you have a lot of costs not listed.

Hardware infrastructure, where do you host your network infrastructure? Or do you only resell saix bandwidth?

Support. There are a lot of noob people out there and you will need a few people on phones to help them plug the phone cable into the correct port on the modem, configuring windows etc.

Advertising. One of the few reasons a sad company like mweb get so much business is because they are a household name. Marketing on that level is expensive.

Accounting. How do you collect your fees?

Contrary to popular belief, ISPs are not rolling in the dough. Telscum, vodacrap and notel are. Maybe IS and so on. But I can bet Webafrica, Openweb or Cybersmart make very little profit.

[Lightscribe]

Yes, there are many hurdles...But it's possible with enough people getting together...

That's why everyone involved will need to give input on what exactly the best business plan should be and exactly what will be required to keep the startup costs the lowest.

We need ongoing discussion to make it a reality.

I'm no techie, but I know we can keep away from infrastructure costs, by finding the cheapest solution for accessing the new cables that are coming.

Support will be given by staff...I enjoy AI bots...many don't realise how many bots they are talking to at support centers...but staff will be drawn from the members.

Advertising costs will be covered by member bandwidth subscription fees also.

All transactions are simple as usual. Bank deposit with faxed proof, EFT and email proof or creditcard payment on the website. Paygate has fantastic rates...

I know that ISP's are not all rolling in the dough...But that does not mean prices should not be slashed as much as is possible.

I am not being hateful, but rather, like most here, tired of feeling that there is nothing we can do...

Now, with a little organization, we will be able to get bandwidth at true rock bottom prices.

We'll be like the SPCA, as opposed to the Dog Grooming Parlour...

Like people who want to see a better day...not just hope for it...nor just hope others don't notice it's raining...

[bwana]

How do you propose to get it into the home when telkom still owns the local loop?

[Lightscribe]

Untill there are more options, telkom and neotel are the options for now.

Anyone know of other options?

[PDonut]

What you're proposing is really interesting and maybe worthwhile in trying but i think the aim of such a project would be to then share all the intracacies related to starting an ISP - being totally transparent - since i think alot of this animosity comes from ppl feeling they are simply being ripped off all the time.

Also I have a feeling this endeavour is similar to the WUG networks we have already in the main centres although i know they dont tout themselves as an ISP. The user might have to foot an intial high capital cost and cheaper after that.
And support is a huuuuge factor. You are going to limit yourselves to only the tech savvy. I consider myself above average competent in all things tech but even I cant be bothered to spend more than 10min to sort my JAWUG system out thats on the blink.

[Lightscribe]

Yes, it will be similar to WUG systems, as in being a "community". The community will be buying bulk, for reselling to anyone who needs bandwith. The community have an interest in ensuring that prices will drop, as and when each new cable is brought into service.

All founder members will have a say, by vote, after discussions, in what the business startup model is to be, and how it will evovle, to make the most effective and dynamic use of any available systems, to supply international bandwidth, at the absolute cheapest costs, to South Africans.

Starting an ISP is as simple as doing it. One does not need to be a doctor to own a hospital. Nor a pilot, to own an airline. One needs to find others with a variety of specializations, yet with broad IT interests, who share a common ideal...Ensuring the cheapest international bandwidth possible.

Then, only when membership numbers are sufficient, will everyone be able/required to pay their monthly membership/specific bandwith package fee, to cover the bulk bandwidth, ISP staff salaries and related costs:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=174982

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Telecoms/2911.html

24/7/365 Telephone support is important and will be done. An active 24/7/365 complaints thread can be maintained on MyBB also. A 24/7/365 secure 100 person capacity chatroom also.

[Garyvdh]

Progress report? :D

[RSkeens]

I don't think much will be saved, ISPs already make such a small amount of profit (at least the ones with competitive pricing).

The other alternative would be to have satellite comm link but then you would need to get some serious investment.

[WoW]

Mmm interesting concept, I am sure there is away to make this viable to make it self sustaining.

*WoW waits for light bulb to come on*

[Lightscribe]

Progress report? :D

I'm waiting for people to IM me. :D

...If any on the forum are interested in being founder members.

We need a general membership in the thousands.

I'm willing to pay to start advertising the Non Profit ISP idea in the newspapers.

I think that constant ads in Sunday national newspapers will alert people that we are serious and people will start signing up for general, bandwidth specific, memberships.

I'm not scared to take on the paperwork and most of the running around.

We need to get the founder members together, in a secure chatroom, to sort out the nitty gritty of exactly how we want to position ourselves in the ISP arena.

Specific founder member ISP staff roles and responsibilities need to be assumed by vote.

In one month, with constant chatroom activity, the ISP could be born...

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Telecoms/8695.html

"Building a telecom company is a very capital-intensive operation; we are spending some R11-billion over a period of time to establish our next generation network. From four people when we first arrived in the country in December 2005, today we employ a 1000 strong workforce."

If 4 guys can start Neotel...20 founder members and a "community" of thousands of IT savvy members can start a Non Profit ISP. :)

[MyWorld]

Who do you still need to make this happen, what expertise are you looking for?

[Lightscribe]

Anyone, able to operate a pc. IM me with just the words "Non Profit ISP Founder Member", so that I can keep you up to date as the numbers grow. We do not all need to be specialists with ISP experience.

Most on the forums have some IT qualifications, which would help for deeper insight and infrastucture decisions regarding creation and the future growth of the ISP.

For most founder members, it is fine to simply have a desire to contribute whatever knowledge one has, to help create and maintain the ISP.

Think of it as sitting on a (virtual) board. You help make decisions, by giving suggestions and by voting on them, to make the ISP the best it can be.

General members will simply be people signing on in order to qualify for a "Non Profit", specific bandwidth, package, at launch.

The general members are the South African public. We need about 15000 of them per month if we intend to buy direct from Seacom.

We may decide, if only a few hundred to a few thousand members sign up, to launch with Neotel or Internet Solutions, since they have major stakes in the Seacom cable, thus we could negotiate a very favourable pricing deal.

I favour IS. http://www.is.co.za/

By simply going and buying from IS right now, one can knock the 15% discount from IS, off the price to the public.

So, ways need to be discussed, that can further reduce costs.

[Budza]

Sounds good. I tried something similar in the local torrents community, with local only.

Trying to get buy in and commitment is difficult.

What you will need is to present the numbers. You reckon 15% can be knocked off- that's a good start, but many people have unrealistic expectations… To them, 15% isn't much.

If you can confirm numbers with IS/whoever, and get back to us with a solid business proposal, you'll do better.

Give some examples- how much would we save by using your ISP? What amounts would you provide? 10/50/100GB?

Why does this have to be open to the public? If you can keen it within MyADSL, that would be better and result in less support issues. The users you'll get will consume far more per person than the average Joes- I don't think it's worth catering for them.

Do you need 15k users or just demand for 15k x ~3GB? With power users forming your base, you can get to high GB numbers quite quickly.

If you have to commit to a certain minimum with IS to receive the discount, you are likely to need a contract based system- are people prepared to commit to such a system?

Anyway, I'll IM you so this discussion can be formalised sometime.

Good luck!

[wikus]

Yes, there are many hurdles...But it's possible with enough people getting together...

That's why everyone involved will need to give input on what exactly the best business plan should be and exactly what will be required to keep the startup costs the lowest.

We need ongoing discussion to make it a reality.

I'm no techie, but I know we can keep away from infrastructure costs, by finding the cheapest solution for accessing the new cables that are coming.

Support will be given by staff...I enjoy AI bots...many don't realise how many bots they are talking to at support centers...but staff will be drawn from the members.

Advertising costs will be covered by member bandwidth subscription fees also.

All transactions are simple as usual. Bank deposit with faxed proof, EFT and email proof or creditcard payment on the website. Paygate has fantastic rates...

I know that ISP's are not all rolling in the dough...But that does not mean prices should not be slashed as much as is possible.

I am not being hateful, but rather, like most here, tired of feeling that there is nothing we can do...

Now, with a little organization, we will be able to get bandwidth at true rock bottom prices.

We'll be like the SPCA, as opposed to the Dog Grooming Parlour...

Like people who want to see a better day...not just hope for it...nor just hope others don't notice it's raining...

Wow, now my eyes hurt so bad :(
Why the many skipped lines?

[TheRidDlerX]

Wow, now my eyes hurt so bad :(
Why the many skipped lines?

Humans tend to scan to certain words or lines if its one continuous jumble of sentences and miss some of the facts :D

[Lightscribe]

Sounds good. I tried something similar in the local torrents community, with local only.

Trying to get buy in and commitment is difficult.

Yes, we will need commitment from all concerned and a minimum 3 month contract may well be the best way to go.

We should however build in some redundancy, so we should be advertising in National newspapers constantly.

The website needs to be SEO optimized and affiliate links must bring in futher income for the ISP.


What you will need is to present the numbers. You reckon 15% can be knocked off- that's a good start, but many people have unrealistic expectations… To them, 15% isn't much.


15% is already R150 off, per R1000 average ISP deal for uncapped fibre 384k. That is not to be sneezed at. :)


If you can confirm numbers with IS/whoever, and get back to us with a solid business proposal, you'll do better.


Anyone can check the IS data. The Business Plan needs to be developed by all founder members.

I specifically keep the info in public, since I hope there will be many more to follow in our footsteps. It is a great way to create jobs and do something to ensure that bandwidth prices drop in SA.


Give some examples- how much would we save by using your ISP? What amounts would you provide? 10/50/100GB?

The founder members need to to discuss what exact packages we should be selling to the public. Also, what contention ratios, we would like to have, or would need to work with, to ensure happy members and the ability to cover overheads.


Why does this have to be open to the public? If you can keen it within MyADSL, that would be better and result in less support issues. The users you'll get will consume far more per person than the average Joes- I don't think it's worth catering for them.

Do you need 15k users or just demand for 15k x ~3GB? With power users forming your base, you can get to high GB numbers quite quickly.


It must be public. We need large numbers of members. It must not be exclusive, or it will then remain mostly static, without the potential for explosive growth.

Power users there will be, but the bulk, I believe, will come from people who simply want a better price for uncapped and unshaped, than they are offered elsewhere.

We are also doing it so as to force other ISPs to trim excesses and drop their prices. It is the consumer becoming the predator, rather than bowing down, as helpless prey. Numbers count. When the tide turns, nothing can stop it.


If you have to commit to a certain minimum with IS to receive the discount, you are likely to need a contract based system- are people prepared to commit to such a system?


One simply needs to buy a minimum of R15000,00/pm from IS to qualify for the 15% discount. Right now a bunch of buddies getting together, can undercut ISP prices by 15%...

I want many such groups of buddies to join together across the country, separate from the Non Profit ISP, to make a massive dent in the ISP industry. Once people see the ways it can be done, it becomes standard.

The Non Profit ISP must concentrate on making people aware of ways in which to force the reduction of bandwidth prices in SA. If my African buddies laid down and continued to just blankly say "Ja Baas, drie sakke vol Baas...", we would still all be afraid of each other, "Big Business" and "The Evil State".

Today, we live in heaven...

But with tin cans and string for communication...at prices straight from Hell... :)

They showed that we simply need to get together to make change happen.

[Kuga]

PM sent

[Garyvdh]

Hey, I think this guy wants to help...

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=2966303

[Lightscribe]

Thx :)

Hope everyone can get together and shock the ISPs with what SA can do when people form a like minded community...

Look at the WUGs... I still believe that there is a solution in going wireless to Seacom.

If anyone has experience, please let us know if it is possible to link all the WUGs in SA and with some relays more, to reach Seacom. No more telkom local loop.

[Garyvdh]

Thx :)

Hope everyone can get together and shock the ISPs with what SA can do when people form a like minded community...

Look at the WUGs... I still believe that there is a solution in going wireless to Seacom.

If anyone has experience, please let us know if it is possible to link all the WUGs in SA and with some relays more, to reach Seacom. No more telkom local loop.

Unfortunately, the WUGs are not currently permitted to carry an Internet Signal. The moment they do, they run into all kinds of licensing and spectrum issues which would, in short, shut them down... the license costs alone would be exorbitant, if ICASA even approved such a deal in the first place. They have flown under the radar so far by staying firmly in the private category.

[Lightscribe]

So, why does it have to cost.

Like the local loop, we are being tied down and then raped...

[Garyvdh]

So, why does it have to cost.

Like the local loop, we are being tied down and then raped...

In this instance, the cost is actually irrelevant. Even if you gave it away for free, you are providing wireless internet which then puts the WUG in a commercial category requiring a license and spectrum allocation. That is how the ECA works in this country and most others in the world.

[Lightscribe]

Surely, getting a licence and spectrum allocation, cannot be that hard if others are doing it.

Or are only certain people like telkom allowed...?

[ponder]

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n205/pigography/Cute%20Stuff/I-See-Stupid-People.jpg

I so wish we could paste images here!

[Lightscribe]

*pats ponder on the head*

Hilarious :)

[Garyvdh]

Surely, getting a licence and spectrum allocation, cannot be that hard if others are doing it.

Or are only certain people like telkom allowed...?

no, it's not hard ... if you can come up with the several million rand (excluding bribes).

[Lightscribe]

If it's only money, then it can be done. :)

Will record the bribe solicitation...send it to Carte Blanche, Special Assignment and 3rd Degree...

With Darkfibre, Neotel and Infraco, there are at least a few options.

As Roman4604 says in another thread:

Doesnt really matter, the Seacom IRU cost are bundled with transit to Midrand JHB (provided by Neotel). So in essence the Seacom cable starts in Midrand from an SA perspective.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=179405&page=5

[Amida]

The main problem we face is local loop. I think what we need is a VANS license and funding. Then we start say in JHB and start installing FTTC bit by bit.

[Budza]

Lightscribe. Thanks for that reply. Your answers were what I was looking for- had they not been what I was looking for, I woulda been outta here.

There are many questions that would need answering about how we would go about this.

I am keen to help- let me know when you get that secure/private forum. Alternatively, post the next step here.

I feel revolutionary!

[Lightscribe]

The main problem we face is local loop. I think what we need is a VANS license and funding. Then we start say in JHB and start installing FTTC bit by bit.

Long term, yes, we need to tackle the local loop problem...or if we are flooded with membership... :)

Funding will come in the form of people signing up for membership, because they believe in the cause.

I'm certain that many will want to invest capital in the ventures you mention, as the ISP expands. Many will invest experience and time.

There will be constant advertising to attract members.

We will get to the point where we offer FTTC.

[Lightscribe]

Lightscribe. Thanks for that reply. Your answers were what I was looking for- had they not been what I was looking for, I woulda been outta here.

There are many questions that would need answering about how we would go about this.

I am keen to help- let me know when you get that secure/private forum. Alternatively, post the next step here.

I feel revolutionary!

Pleasure :)

Glad that you're aboard.

I will definitely keep everyone up to date on this thread and will send the chatroom link to all members by IM.

vivez la révolution! :D

[somewherenotthere]

wish i had some network skill to contribute. i think this is a great idea in terms of benefit to consumers and if done right can be a success

[Lightscribe]

Great, send me an IM saying NPO ISP. :)

You can be a founder member and help create and run the NPO ISP.

[somewherenotthere]

Great, send me an IM saying NPO ISP. :)

You can be a founder member and help create and run the NPO ISP.like as in a personal message on the forum?

[Lightscribe]

Yes, left click my name in the post here, then choose "send personal message".

Just type "NPO ISP" as the subject header, with "add me" as the message. :)

[waynegohl]

i like the idea but i have nooo knowledge when it comes to this line of work but i can make tea or coffee.

[Lightscribe]

Hehe! You can make suggestions, discuss, debate and vote too... :)

Send the PM :)

[somewherenotthere]

KK, just wanted to make sure you weren't refering to another proggy like MSN, etc...

I refer to them as PMs (not the... er... woman thingy)

[Lightscribe]

Yes, sorry, I should have said PM. :)

[erasma]

There is a way to make this work!

You need to have people terminate on your network! you need to be able to allow members to move across your network - Like IS does from telkom.

the issue is the cost of the line needed to plug into your own equipment!

But once they are on your network you can charge what you like for "local bandwidth or internatioanl bandwidth" you can also peer with other ISP's or Peer internationaly if you get BW direct from a teer 1 ISP

[swsup97]

How many "founder members" have joined so far ?

[Tinuva]

I am quite interested in the progress, just to see what these guys will accomplish, this is no easy feat...

[sleez]

How many "founder members" have joined so far ?

Yeah I'm sure there are alot of disgruntled forumites willing to give telkom the boot :D

[dominic]

hi Lightscribe and y'all
happy to help when time allows with licensing issues and tie-ups

[Elf-San]

Lets make this happen...pm sent.....

[Zenbaas]

Lets make this happen...pm sent.....

I agree. I unfortunately fall into the " make tea and coffee category" like waynegohl:p But every little helps:)

[Lightscribe]

How many "founder members" have joined so far ?

At 29 today.


I am quite interested in the progress, just to see what these guys will accomplish, this is no easy feat...

Join... Send a PM to me with Just "NPO ISP". :)


Yeah I'm sure there are alot of disgruntled forumites willing to give telkom the boot :D

Join us... :)


hi Lightscribe and y'all
happy to help when time allows with licensing issues and tie-ups

Hi Dominic,

Will add you to the Founder Members. :)

Welcome to DrewFen, Vegeta, Zenbaas, Thestealth, Elf-San and jetlee who joined today also. :)

[Zenbaas]

At 29 today.



Join... Send a PM to me with Just "NPO ISP". :)



Join us... :)



Hi Dominic,

Will add you to the Founder Members. :)

Welcome to DrewFen, Vegeta, Zenbaas, Thestealth, Elf-San and jetlee who joined today also. :)

This is a very good initiative. I hope with time we manage to pull something off.

[Lightscribe]

...And welcome also to iCare, OnePostWonder, Seamus6917 and Fantastic1 :)

[Stalker]

PM sent - count me in

[MrXSpekta]

Sometimes the okes on MyBB can amaze me! This is an excellent idea and could be a great initiative for developing internet connectivity in schools and maybe some rural areas. If you guys know the right people, you might as well count a government grant in!

My schedule is a bit hectic this year, but finishing of with honours and I'll gladly be part of this NPO ISP from next year!

[czc]

Hi guys, PM sent. Willing to contribute what I can. I'm no network specialist but can contribute to the other related services, documentation, etc...

[Lightscribe]

Sometimes the okes on MyBB can amaze me! This is an excellent idea and could be a great initiative for developing internet connectivity in schools and maybe some rural areas. If you guys know the right people, you might as well count a government grant in!

My schedule is a bit hectic this year, but finishing of with honours and I'll gladly be part of this NPO ISP from next year!

We will be working hard to ensure collaboration with and funding from as many sympathetic sectors as possible.

Thanks to all the ISPs that have kept mute about lowering prices, or those that claim, after having recieved a better deal from telkom already, that there won't be lower prices.

We fully intend to ensure lower bandwidth costs for South Africans. :)

Reserve a membership now. We cannot allow too many founder members. If someone leaves, you will be invited to join. :)

[Lightscribe]

40 Members by now.

Welcome to Dominic, jetlee, iCare, OnePostWonder, Seamus6917, Fantastic1, Stalker, bullfrog, dovij, czc, biometrics and texo who also joined today. :)

[Zenbaas]

39 Members by now.

Welcome to Dominic, jetlee, iCare, OnePostWonder, Seamus6917, Fantastic1, Stalker, bullfrog, dovij, czc and biometrics who also joined today. :)

Maybe a link in your sig to this thread to get the ball rolling some more.....?

[Lightscribe]

Hehe! We need to stop at 40 people. :)

Anyone may still PM me for membership, but you will have to go on a list, from which we will draw new governing body members, once someone leaves.

It will take us about 4 months to begin operations, if things go well. It takes at least that long for the NPO registration to go through. A Section 21 Company, which is the legal structure of the NPO ISP, can take 6 to 8 months.

We also need the whole of August to streamline the NPO ISP. We will post progress here.

By December or January, at the earliest, we should be announcing the 1st products. More realistically, April to May 2010.

This may seem a long way off. Please think of the ISPs we plan to pull, kicking and screaming, into lowering prices...It's not that long... :)

[Zenbaas]

Hehe! We need to stop at 40 people. :)

You may still PM me for membership, but you will have to go on a list, from which we will draw new governing body members, once someone leaves.

We will post progress here.

It will take us about 4 months to begin operations. It takes that long for the registration to go through. We also need the whole of August to streamline the NPO ISP.

By December or January, we should be offering the 1st products.

Ok cool :D

[MrXSpekta]

PM sent! :-)

[Lightscribe]

With sleez, MrXSpekta and Kasbah, we have reached 42 founder members today and cannot take on more right now. As founder members leave, new ones will be chosen. PM me if interested in being on the list of candidates.

We will however set up a website soon. Anyone can subscribe for a free weekly newsletter, whereby we will keep everyone informed of progress.

The moment we are ready to launch, you will be informed. :)

[matewis]

Good luck everyone, you have my support.

[Odracir]

I'm in member or not but you will have my support.

[Drunkard #1]

Excellent idea. Like a WUG, but without the need to learn anything before you can connect, or get flamed for being "insufficiently grovelling".

One or two thoughts: data that travels only on the internal network (between two members) should be really cheap. Local data should be cheap and international data reasonably priced. You'll need your own news server.

Good luck with your venture, I hope it works out.

[xiN]

Brilliant. Keep us up to date.

[Lightscribe]

Excellent idea. Like a WUG, but without the need to learn anything before you can connect, or get flamed for being "insufficiently grovelling".

One or two thoughts: data that travels only on the internal network (between two members) should be really cheap. Local data should be cheap and international data reasonably priced. You'll need your own news server.

Good luck with your venture, I hope it works out.

Thanks for the support and info. :)

We appreciate any and all advice from everyone interested. We will also keep everyone up to date with progress.

[HermanTheGerman]

One or two thoughts: data that travels only on the internal network (between two members) should be really cheap. Local data should be cheap and international data reasonably priced. You'll need your own news server

Sorry, but that sounds like bull to me. Makes things unneccessary complicated. How often does one need to repeat we're talking about a thing called INTERNET here? Not Afronet or Localnet. For the end user it shouldn't make a difference, the enduser shouldn't need to worry about to where on this globe he or she's connecting.

Again, if you wanna be a ISP - then do it right! Don't look at the SA "competition", instead look to countries where ISPs got their **** together: Japan, South Korea, Netherlands. I know many dutchies, they have the bestest and cheapest connections ... and nobody of them does even know how they are connected. Fiber? DSL? Satellite? Caps? Shaped, unshaped? Different line speeds? WTF? Nobody does even wanna know about all that technical blah. Standard in the EU is now around 16 MBit/s now ... I guess. May be more, my be less, who cares? Pay your very priceworthy bill and enjoy internet! Such a full service (incl. national telephone) must not cost more than R 250 - 300/month.

[Frankc]

I for one was and will always be a fighter against crazy prices and companies that plain abuse their customers but this whole idea seems a bit over the top for me due to two reasons.

1) The major reason for the high cost of bandwidth is because of the top level suppliers and not due to profit / greed at the part of the ISP so even if it's a non-profit organisation the price reduction would be almost nothing. (If the supplier / manufacturer is expensive then there is NOTHING that anyone can do to reduce that BASE price except than to being a supplier / manufacturer himself)

With the new Seacom cable for example, Neotel is supposed to be the major player to utilize it and bring affordable bandwidth to the public but do you see any such low cost solutions on their website?

With my own web hosting business but without internet connection and thus no Telkom contract I am interested to provide cheap connection but again, do you see any such possibility on their website?

2) With the potential power of such group, if enough members join, it's perhaps possible to offer GOOD enough deals at short term but once the other ISP's catch up and using the new lower cost suppliers the difference will be by far not enough to be sustainable over long term.

The more users, the more the expenses with profit only a small part of the pie.

That said I however do have a last observation.

Even IF such non-profit ISP are run like a normal "ISP business" with staff etc etc there is one MAJOR benefit thats far, far more valueable then the PROFIT/GREED factor and that's....... Company Tax.

Without company tax ALONE prices can be 40% less than any other ISP but yet it still don't resolve the issue of HIGH prices at Tier 1 supplier level.

[Lightscribe]

You're not thinking hard enough Frank...

From our Constitution:

2. Objectives
(a) The organisation’s main objectives are to ensure the lowering of bandwidth costs for all South Africans, thus stimulating the IT industry, by having no profit incentive and being tax exempt, yet also being able to qualify for bulk bandwidth purchase discounts, due to large client numbers. Making dynamic, effective and strategic use of financing recieved for this purpose, through donations, sponsors and funding. Further bandwidth cost reductions can be achieved, by the combination of automation of the bulk of support services, with strictly virtual offices/franchisees.

We intend to strip costs to the bone...

[Frankc]

You're not thinking hard enough Frank...

I have to agree with that sorry as reading a thread is hardly the same as being INVOLVED in something, that "normally" should encourage thinking long and hard. (I said "normally" because our modern people seems to be somewhat messed up and many times don't do what an intellegent being should do in specific circumstances)

Just for a start it's perhaps possible to offer much lower prices just by using the collective power of the mybroadband members to purchase bandwidth from Neotel in bulk but of course there is many other things to consider too.

[Lightscribe]

We have been offered bandwidth at lower costs than we could have imagined, already. The problem is getting the registrations done. So we can sell legally.

I'm busy trying to fast track things, but the actual government period is about 4 to 6 months.

We have other options which will take weeks. If the members agree with those options, over the next week, we can start selling in a month.

[HermanTheGerman]

Lightscribe - where can I sign up??? I know there's a site somewhere but am way too lazy to look it up. So please post URL again!!! Good ideas need to be communicated to the end user, you need to do some promotion! This maybe the start of something great?

Whoohoo, I can already smell the roses ;)

[heynnow]

+1000 for this initiative

[Lightscribe]

Hi Herman,

Anyone can send me a PM, with the words "NPO ISP Founder Member". :)

I will add their name to the candidate list.

We have all the Founder Members already, but if one leaves, then a new one will be chosen from interested people on the candidate list.

We do not have a website up yet. Please beware of anyone posing as us. However, anyone in the world may copy our idea.

It's a free market and the more competition, the better. I'm sure there would be nothing South Africans would love more, than a brutal price war between NPO ISPs...never mind ordinary ISPs...

Our goal, is pricing in the "cents" range per gig, for international internet. Axxess shows their Uncapped Express+ ADSL fibre clients doing 700 to 800+ gigs a month on a 384k uncapped package, that goes to 4meg at night, for R999 per month.

We need to try and get that type of uncapped package, priced at around R300-R400 per month. Well below R1 per gig.

I will post a link in this thread as soon as we have the site up. There won't be a need for ordinary "members", since this gives the impression of a closed club. We will sell to all South African "clients".

Thanks everyone for the support. :)

[Praeses]

Looking forward to it!! :D Great work guys/gals!

[WoW]

Hi Guys, back from the world of no connectivity.
Now to apply our thoughts as a collective to come up with a solution...

[Lightscribe]

Welcome Back :)

Dive into the NPO ISP Member Forum. :)

[laric]

Lightscribe

I think your NPO ISP idea is feasible, as long as the prices remain high and the people feeling being taken for a ride by current ISPs.

Furthermore, I believe one would not need a huge outlay for advertising, as long as one can spin the story right and get it picked up by the news media, the flood of subscribers could be beyond expectations. I mean if one can still remember the boom ABSA had with their dial-up ISP quite a few years ago with really limited advertising and more new stories then word of mouth which is the cheapest and best form of advertising.

[Fudzy]

Lightscribe

I think your NPO ISP idea is feasible, as long as the prices remain high and the people feeling being taken for a ride by current ISPs.

Furthermore, I believe one would not need a huge outlay for advertising, as long as one can spin the story right and get it picked up by the news media, the flood of subscribers could be beyond expectations. I mean if one can still remember the boom ABSA had with their dial-up ISP quite a few years ago with really limited advertising and more new stories then word of mouth which is the cheapest and best form of advertising.

Limited advertising? Hardly. They were backed up by a the most profitable industry in the country.

[laric]

Fudzy

it was limited compare to the other major ISP's since it was not suppose to be a money spinner more an customer retention gimmick. they weren't suppose to sign up so many people as they outsource to some free advert paid ISP's as far as I remember but the sign up got too big and those guys couldn't handle it. kinda made them the biggest ISP overnight but they had no capacity.

was just using it as an example of how pent up dissatisfaction with pricing can easily be used to ones advantage for the launch of NPO ISP

[OutOfTheBox]

You forget that the internet was originally a sort of NPO, business did not think you could make money which left the geeks to fund it from their own pockets. Lots of small home office ISP's myself included.

It worked well because people who used the internet also developed it. Those who used the internet also gave back to it. The reason why the internet is **** today is because of all the youngsters who think because idiot number one in idiot location two only pays three dollars for his connection that they have some sort of human, sorry divine, right to the same price.

Great idea ! but unless you keep the idiots out- who said telephone support ? - ROFLMFAO I will gladly put time and money into setting up an NPO ISP, but not if you are going to allow freeloaders and people who are likely to have malicious software on their PC's and not even know it.

If you don't then all that will happen is a lot of people will work hard so that a few freeloaders get to game faster. Just because you are an NPO does not mean you are also a charity.

Communism only works when you have brutal leadership.

A single admin 9-5 person, enough IT people for 24hr monitoring, NO TELEPHONE SUPPORT, telephone fault reporting only, username and password supplied by admin 9-5 ONLY, contact your IT guy for how to drive a PC. Anything else like marketing, outsource.

Then count me in, I don't mind supporting an NPO that shares the internet and is not a charity for those who cannot afford the internet, or a classroom for those who cannot understand it.

[Frankc]

If you don't then all that will happen is a lot of people will work hard so that a few freeloaders get to game faster. Just because you are an NPO does not mean you are also a charity.

I have to agree on this point because, even while I agree 100% that low price, bigger cap bandwidth is a good idea, there MUST be some limitation to prevent those 2% idiots to mess things up for the 98% realistic users.

Almost the WHOLE purpose of the Non-Profit ISP will be defeated if the connection is too slow due to a download-like-crazy attitude of some users.

[Lightscribe]

We understand what you guys are saying. Thank you for the input.

We are concerned about every little thing that would increase overheads.

Let's see how many respond, during our 1 month long promotion, before launch.

People will be able to sign up, to pay by 3, 6 or 12 month debit order, which becomes effective at launch date.

Then we can see just how many to cater for and make the neccesary arrangements.

We intend working with skeleton staff untill launch. Then we only hire as is absolutely required, as we evolve.

[swsup97]

NPO ISP FTW :)

Well Done Lightscribe and all the others starting this off, exciting times ahead ...can't wait.

[LFX]

or a classroom for those who cannot understand it.

QFT!!!!!!!

[heynnow]

I am most likely writing an academic article for University of Cape Town Economics department, and I would love to get some more info from you guys on what is planned here. The article heading is going in the direction of " The economics of non profit organizations within the telecommunications sector"

I will make full references to the ones that came up with the idea and I will send you guys a copy once I am done with it.

This article will explore the dynamics in a academic and practical way. i have done my research on the academic side of things, but will love some more input on the practicality.

thanks in advance

[Lightscribe]

I am most likely writing an academic article for University of Cape Town Economics department, and I would love to get some more info from you guys on what is planned here. The article heading is going in the direction of " The economics of non profit organizations within the telecommunications sector"

I will make full references to the ones that came up with the idea and I will send you guys a copy once I am done with it.

This article will explore the dynamics in a academic and practical way. i have done my research on the academic side of things, but will love some more input on the practicality.

thanks in advance

If you send me a PM with "NPO Founder Member" as the heading and "Academic article for University of Cape Town Economics department: The economics of non profit organizations within the telecommunications sector"
as the body, I will add you to the Candidate Member List.

We will choose new members from it by Monday. I'm sure you will be given a chance to be a founder member.

You can then get an inside look, at how we do things and the unique problems and solutions, associated with establishing and running a wholly virtual company.

[PokerKing]

this is looking great, keep it up guys!

[Lightscribe]

Thx swsup97 and PokerKing! :)

[Frankc]

Challence to all forum members

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=3030838#post3030838

[pierrehugo]

Have you considered selling pre-paid data? The prices in this area are particularly inflated... talking like R70.00 per gig... I would buy even if you just matched that price...

Also if you need a channel into the locals like Bitfarm, theHub, DC++ Hubs, NC, newshost, nzbsa etc drop me a line... the more support from the IT competent people the better! (talking like people who know that we have comparitevely high bandwidth prices.)

[Lightscribe]

Yes Pierre, we intend also offering pre-paid vouchers at national food retailers and garages.

Great, thanks for the support. If you're interested, send a PM to me and I'll add you to the candidates list. :)

We can always do with more IT people. :)

[Gamer]

I'm ready to sign up. Let me know if I can do anything to help or anything else required.

[PokerKing]

When is your planned release date or your target date to start up?

[Lightscribe]

I'm ready to sign up. Let me know if I can do anything to help or anything else required.

Great, send me a PM saying "NPO ISP Candidate" and we will put you on the list. When a member leaves, we choose new members from the list. :)

[Lightscribe]

When is your planned release date or your target date to start up?

We hope to finish staff allocations and register in a week or two.

Then it will be a about 4 months, before we can advertise the launch date, which should be about a month later.

[Fantastic1]

so effectively end january 2010 is when the NPO ISP can start trading

[The_Librarian]

IT here as well

would love to participate as well.

[Lightscribe]

IT here as well

would love to participate as well.

Would be great to have you with us. Send us a PM :)

[Mean_Monster]

Tell us something new about this project.

[somewherenotthere]

Tell us something new about this project.It will be pretty with flowers and stuff :D

What kinda info are you looking for? status updates?

[rebel998]

This could work.

But why don't the WUGs get involved?

I would support this.:D

[somewherenotthere]

This could work.

But why don't the WUGs get involved?

I would support this.:D
AFAIK, you cannot provide internet access over the WUGS:(

[Mean_Monster]

yeah updates. This all sounds very interesting.

[Lightscribe]

We're busy choosing staff. this will be another week. Then we will register, but it takes a few months.

In the meantime, we will all work or help out in various departments, as our skills and time allows.

We have a lot of work ahead of us, so we may soon feel that a few months is not enough.

I'm sure we will be ready by registration date though.

We will keep everyone up to date as things happen.

[Fantastic1]

All the BEST to the NPO ISP ... :)

[Archie1]

Yes good luck! I don't have any skills to offer lol but all the best.

When deciding on packages please also keep SAIX local only in mind as well as it is , IMO, much better for news servers than IS.

[Ryzzhan]

personally cant wait for this one to get up and running!!! wish you guys all the best.

[Gekco]

Wish you guys the best.

[Lightscribe]

Yes, we will sell SAIX local also.

Thanks for the support everyone. :)

[Zanadu]

PM Sent.
Fantastic

[HermanTheGerman]

Yeah, best wishes and may the gods of speedsurfing be with you.
Can't wait to see the final price list.

[Fantastic1]

http://www.stripnet.co.za/


this is hectic and Very SAD

[rebel998]

I cannot understand why someone would not support an effort like this??

Transparency is vital here, or else there will be a lot more of this.:D

[The_Librarian]

http://www.stripnet.co.za/


this is hectic and Very SAD

Agreed.

Somebody who can't be positive, or who doesn't want to give it a go.

In the words of Yoda "Do, or do not. There is no try".

[Fantastic1]

i support the NPO ISP, however some individuals may be using this for some kind of personal gain or employment...
i had suggested that NO Salaries to be taken for at least the first 6 months to ensure the NPO ISP gets running properly... I also recommended and advised on a few critical pricing items ...

I am fully employed by a reputable organization in SA, and do not sit the whole day on the net and browsing through every post on MyBB.

I even suggested that any position i receive I would not take a salary and put this salary allocation to the enhancement of the NPO ISP,

i then get kicked out by this individual

[somewherenotthere]

Yeah it's a great idea! And I wonder if the maker of that site knows what N.P.O. stands for :p

[Fantastic1]

the maker of that site knows what Non Profit Organization ISP (NPO ISP) is, but if you read carefully whomever is trying to setup the NPO ISP in SA, some of them are using this as a vehicle for personal financial gain and employment & it's members of the (NPO ISP) members are rubber stamping this.

Non Profit is Non Profit - not a SLIGHT Profit or salary... I did suggest NO SALARY for the first 6 months to all members of the NPO ISP...but then a while after I get kicked out of the Private Forum.

[rebel998]

i support the NPO ISP, however some individuals may be using this for some kind of personal gain or employment...
i had suggested that NO Salaries to be taken for at least the first 6 months to ensure the NPO ISP gets running properly... I also recommended and advised on a few critical pricing items ...

I am fully employed by a reputable organization in SA, and do not sit the whole day on the net and browsing through every post on MyBB.

I even suggested that any position i receive I would not take a salary and put this salary allocation to the enhancement of the NPO ISP,

i then get kicked out by this individual

I understand your point of view but who'll be paying for participants'time and expenses?

As long as no-one reaches in too deep it's fine by me if folks get paid for their hassle.

That is why info on this should be available to interested parties at all time.

Let's try and remain positive about this. The idea alone deserves at least that.:D

[rebel998]

I get kicked out of the Private Forum.

What private forum?:D

[somewherenotthere]

the maker of that site knows what Non Profit Organization ISP (NPO ISP) is, but if you read carefully whomever is trying to setup the NPO ISP in SA, some of them are using this as a vehicle for personal financial gain and employment & it's members of the (NPO ISP) members are rubber stamping this.

Non Profit is Non Profit - not a SLIGHT Profit or salary... I did suggest NO SALARY for the first 6 months to all members of the NPO ISP...but then a while after I get kicked out of the Private Forum. Just to clarify, members cannot take a salary unless they are in an executive capacity. And then they can only be remunerated for work that they perform and which is due to them. Otherwise it is illegal. members are there just to vote, and receive no remuneration (by law) unless for actual services provided.

Unfortunately trying to tarnish the organisation's name is just petty.:(

If you were voted out it was for good reason, how about making that public?

Anyway, back on topic... SA and cheap internet:cool:

[Fantastic1]

The Idea is a Gr8 one, but you dont go around kicking out members as you wish without proper consultation of other members.
I was on the NPO ISP sad to say got kicked out by Lightscribe without consultation by other members. Even though i contributed a decent amount of my knowledge onto the PRIVATE Forum that assisted in calculations of pricing for local + international internet.

Everything needs to be open and members need to know exactly what is going on.

[Fantastic1]

Just to clarify, members cannot take a salary unless they are in an executive capacity. And then they can only be remunerated for work that they perform and which is due to them. Otherwise it is illegal. members are there just to vote, and receive no remuneration (by law) unless for actual services provided.

Unfortunately trying to tarnish the organisation's name is just petty.:(

If you were voted out it was for good reason, how about making that public?

Anyway, back on topic... SA and cheap internet:cool:


What Vote to be voted out - there was NO VOTE - Got Kicked out by Lightscribe

[rebel998]

Could someone tell us what this is all about?:D

[Fantastic1]

What private forum?:D

Their is a PRIVATE NPO ISP Forum on MyBB and member get added or KICKED OUT as they So Wish without proper voting by all members

[Fantastic1]

Could someone tell us what this is all about?:D

Ask Lightscribe - PM Him and he will let you in as he SO WISHES
and then He WILL REMOVE YOU When HE SO WISHES to DO SO

Even if you contribute to the NPO ISP, and say whatever position you take you wish to donate it back to the NPO ISP , you MAY GET KICKED OUT
cos someone out there wants to be employed and salaried .....

[rebel998]

Everything needs to be open and members need to know exactly what is going on.

Well as prospective member I also need to know what I am getting involved with.

As it seems a lot of discussion has taken place already, do you guys mind informing us of what have been discussed/decided upon so far?:D

[rebel998]

Their is a PRIVATE NPO ISP Forum on MyBB Oh really?
member get added or KICKED OUT as they So Wish without proper voting by all membersWho is/are "they"?
:D

[evilsee]

Well as prospective member I also need to know what I am getting involved with.

As it seems a lot of discussion has taken place already, do you guys mind informing us of what have been discussed/decided upon so far?:D

I agree, I also want to know whats been discussed so far and why fantastic was kicked out?

[somewherenotthere]

Their is a PRIVATE NPO ISP Forum on MyBB and member get added or KICKED OUT as they So Wish without proper voting by all members
Sigh, do you really want it to be public?

Members expressed concern with your credibility, lightscribe asked you to provide some info and you dodged it.

I like the fact that you still believe in the NPO, and it was a pity things ended up the way they did concerning your relationship with it.

[Fantastic1]

Oh really?Who is/are "they"?
:D


fantastic1 and frankc were on the Founding member NPO ISP and got kicked out by Lightsribe without voting of other members

[Fantastic1]

Sigh, do you really want it to be public?

Members expressed concern with your credibility, lightscribe asked you to provide some info and you dodged it.

I like the fact that you still believe in the NPO, and it was a pity things ended up the way they did concerning your relationship with it.

I did not dodge any info and it was not indicated on the PRIVATE NPO ISP FORUM.... I just got Kicked Out last week.

I work for a credible company that has been in existance since 1999 and remember i do not sit the whole day in front of my pc or reading posts on MYBB or other site. I also run a chain of very successful Vodacom stores.

I did provide the info, it may have been slighly delayed (sorry), but it is not like the NPO ISP was going or depending on it to Start. The NPO ISP is only going to start at the END of January 2010 if all things go smoothly.

So even a few days delay did not cause any consequences in expected launch dates.

[Gatecrasher]

Popcorn anyone?

[Fantastic1]

Popcorn anyone?

available at the NEAREST NPO Lighscribe Booth :D

go gently to the booth or you may get kicked out :p

[rebel998]

Sigh, do you really want it to be public?Why not?:D

[Seamus6917]

Popcorn anyone?

Please...

Since when is Sunday night a fight night?

[rebel998]

What would the implications be if info was made public?:D

[somewherenotthere]

LOL

but you did not say that you would provide it in a couple days or anything to that effect, you just dodged the most simple questions with silly and leading answers.

[Fantastic1]

Why not?:D

I agree with you - if it is NPO - and it going to benefit all SA, then it should be Public. :)

Maybe what they hiding is how much of salt to add onto the popcorn or how much caramel to put on it and how much to charge for it :eek:

or yes - how much salary they going to get :sick:

AN NPO is for NON PROFIT and for the Benefit of ALL People using the service.
People should Volunteer as much as possible and once that particular volunteer cannot do so then additional volunteers whould come on.

i think the NPO ISP being setup in PRIVATE FORUM on MyBB ... for Profit for a few thats why it is PRIVATE :(

[Fantastic1]

Please...

Since when is Sunday night a fight night?

It is NOT FIGHT NIGHT .... it is NON PROFIT

so POPCORN is Actually FREE donated by Volunteers

[rebel998]

Let's put aside the kicked out/voted off issue for now.

What info can you (anyone) give us on this project and why is it that so little is known about it if it has progressed so far already?:D

[Fantastic1]

LOL

but you did not say that you would provide it in a couple days or anything to that effect, you just dodged the most simple questions with silly and leading answers.

I did not dodge anything - i told him i needed to post it to another site http://www.slideshare.net/fantastic1 as I have the company infomation in presentation format.

Including the ISP Billing and Infomation on this

[somewherenotthere]

What would the implications be if info was made public?:D I just mean what he did wrong...

The NPO is not a secret, and is already public and any material information is public.

It is just not visible because of member real names, etc being used...

I can assure you nothing dodgy is going on, I would make a very quick exit if there was. Hopefully it will have a name and registration etc goes smoothly, and then cheaper internet will start to become available.

As far as the problems so, as with anything of this nature, some people will want to disrupt things (Not you fantastic1). I am still convinced that this is going to be a great contributor to the consumers in SA!

[Fantastic1]

Let's put aside the kicked out/voted off issue for now.

What info can you (anyone) give us on this project and why is it that so little is known about it if it has progressed so far already?:D


They Voting this week to see who and how much they get paid - so it will be private , the NPO ISP will only start January 2010.

So why i was kicked out even though i contributed and still willing to do so towards a True NPO ISP , i do not understand.

[Lightscribe]

the maker of that site knows what Non Profit Organization ISP (NPO ISP) is, but if you read carefully whomever is trying to setup the NPO ISP in SA, some of them are using this as a vehicle for personal financial gain and employment & it's members of the (NPO ISP) members are rubber stamping this.

Non Profit is Non Profit - not a SLIGHT Profit or salary... I did suggest NO SALARY for the first 6 months to all members of the NPO ISP...but then a while after I get kicked out of the Private Forum.


You may notice that there is no more support staff manager.

This position is not required untill we are overwhelmed with clients...if ever...

Kasbah and I are both interested in AIML chatbots. I will work on the 3D photo realistic Avatars, with involuntary reactions, that will be our chatbot support staff for basic support. He will work on the AIML code. We will lease our combined products to the NPO ISP cheaply, as a launch pad for leasing to other web based companies.

This is months away, so it may be in time for the launch. That will take the strain off our human support staff. They may even get bored, if the public like talking to our sexy chatbots instead...

Kasbah and I are still happy to be nominated for any position in the NPO ISP.

As with any member, we may need to decline a nomination if we feel we would like to be in another position, for which members still need to vote.

So, I nominate 3D Chatbots for the Support Staff, other than the two human support staff, negating the need for Management. Two human support staff do not need a manager. Kasbah and I will "manage" the 3D Chatbots as per a lease agreement with the NPO ISP. :)

:) Nominate...As in asking opinion.... I make it clear that I and another member can offer a service that reduces costs dramatically.

You, on the other hand, tried to sell the NPO ISP bandwidth, through your Natal South Coast cellphone airtime shop.

Also, trying to sell us a R30 000 program for the bandwidth distribution and admin.

The decision to remove you, was made by all members present, on the day that we had given you to provide your company details, which you had delayed for several days. That's a quorum, of available, not yet registered members. More than the situation deserved.

Your intentions may be judged by all MyBB Forum Members.

Always explain both sides of the story, please.

[Lightscribe]

I agree with you - if it is NPO - and it going to benefit all SA, then it should be Public. :)

Maybe what they hiding is how much of salt to add onto the popcorn or how much caramel to put on it and how much to charge for it :eek:

or yes - how much salary they going to get :sick:

AN NPO is for NON PROFIT and for the Benefit of ALL People using the service.
People should Volunteer as much as possible and once that particular volunteer cannot do so then additional volunteers whould come on.

i think the NPO ISP being setup in PRIVATE FORUM on MyBB ... for Profit for a few thats why it is PRIVATE :(

Now, that's just plain sad... :)

[somewherenotthere]

I agree with you - if it is NPO - and it going to benefit all SA, then it should be Public. :)

Maybe what they hiding is how much of salt to add onto the popcorn or how much caramel to put on it and how much to charge for it :eek:

or yes - how much salary they going to get :sick:

AN NPO is for NON PROFIT and for the Benefit of ALL People using the service.
People should Volunteer as much as possible and once that particular volunteer cannot do so then additional volunteers whould come on.

i think the NPO ISP being setup in PRIVATE FORUM on MyBB ... for Profit for a few thats why it is PRIVATE :(wow are you serious? at the moment the discussion is whether to pay actual staff minimum wage, and that is the staff! IT IS ILLEGAL FOR MEMBERS TO SHARE PROFITS

[kwaggawerner]

Billboard text.... my LCD just just squeezed it all in.... and I don't have a small LCD either...

Thanks.



BTW This post is on FIRE! Just a quick refresh every 2 minutes and the soapie continues.... ;) - Thanks to the peanut gallery

[rebel998]

at the moment the discussion is whether to pay actual staff minimum wage

Umm, why should they get paid minimum wage? Won't that be counter productive? If you want people to perform well then give them the incentive to do so.:D

[Fantastic1]

:) Nominate...As is asking opinion.... I make it clear that I and another member can offer a service that reduces costs dramatically.

You, on the other hand, tried to sell the NPO ISP bandwidth, through your Natal South Coast cellphone airtime shop.

Also, trying to sell us a R30 000 program for the bandwidth distribution and admin.

The decision to remove you, was made by all members present, on the day that we had given you to provide your company details, which you had delayed for several days. That's a quorum, of available, not yet registered members. More than the situation deserved.

Your intentions may be judged by all MyBB Forum Members.

Always explain both sides of the story, please.

I may be in Natal South Coast - but our company has the IECNS / IECS Licenses that may and can assist in providing the NPO ISP the required bandwidth at our NET Cost,
I may be in Natal South Coast - but I have leads and have made inroads into many telco's as I am in this industry since 1999.
have a look at the the solution on http://www.slideshare.net/fantastic1
or even http://www.infonova.com
This solution is Actually R 3.8 million to setup in South Africa, I was providing this to the NPO ISP at a white label solution cost.
You need to properly manage, maintain and bill your clients including managing the traffic / shaping / contention ratios etc.

I may be in Natal South Coast - but for your information NEVER Underestimate or sideline anyone especially if we are willing to contribute to the NPO ISP so all South African's benefits.

If beeing in Natal South Coast is a problem - then why dont the NPO ISP say that we require members from JHB / DBN / CPT / BFN HUBS Only.

Isn't Natal South Coast in South Africa , and our company is willing to contribute to the NPO ISP .....

You would find out shortly that when I stated we will provide you our NETT COSTS on the Products you would then only realise our benefit and contributions

[Fantastic1]

Now, that's just plain sad... :)

No that is a reality in what is being discussed in the PRIVATE NPO ISP Forum
setup my MyBB

[rebel998]

So you're on the Natal south coast heh?:D:D:D

[somewherenotthere]

Umm, why should they get paid minimum wage? Won't that be counter productive? If you want people to perform well then give them the incentive to do so.:D Exactly, that is why it is being discussed... but in no way can a member benefit at the expense of the NPO's long-term goal... which is solely to provide a vessel on which to help the south african internet users. MY interest in it is that I use the internet! I also want to see internet prices come down in SA, and am willing to spend some of my time (without pay) to see that happen.

The future is bright for us all, there are more and more cables being laid, we have an NPO ISP with many great members on its way.

[kwaggawerner]

HA HA @ rebel998... stop scaring the members with your "stalk-talk" ;)

[Lightscribe]

I may be in Natal South Coast - but our company has the IECNS / IECS Licenses that may and can assist in providing the NPO ISP the required bandwidth at our NET Cost,
I may be in Natal South Coast - but I have leads and have made inroads into many telco's as I am in this industry since 1999.
have a look at the the solution on http://www.slideshare.net/fantastic1
or even http://www.infonova.com
This solution is Actually R 3.8 million to setup in South Africa, I was providing this to the NPO ISP at a white label solution cost.
You need to properly manage, maintain and bill your clients including managing the traffic / shaping / contention ratios etc.

I may be in Natal South Coast - but for your information NEVER Underestimate or sideline anyone especially if we are willing to contribute to the NPO ISP so all South African's benefits.

If beeing in Natal South Coast is a problem - then why dont the NPO ISP say that we require members from JHB / DBN / CPT / BFN HUBS Only.

Isn't Natal South Coast in South Africa , and our company is willing to contribute to the NPO ISP .....

You would find out shortly that when I stated we will provide you our NETT COSTS on the Products you would then only realise our benefit and contributions

Yes, we believe you had honourable intentions...

We just could not sleep at night, with everyone in MyBB wanting to know, how we came to purchase bulk bandwidth, from a cellphone airtime shop...even if you were next door to Neotel Midrand Hub.

We shall knock on their door...

[rebel998]

But things must have progressed quite a bit if salaries are being discussed.

Care to share any available details?:D

[Fantastic1]

Exactly, that is why it is being discussed... but in no way can a member benefit at the expense of the NPO's long-term goal... which is solely to provide a vessel on which to help the south african internet users. MY interest in it is that I use the internet! I also want to see internet prices come down in SA, and am willing to spend some of my time (without pay) to see that happen.

The future is bright for us all, there are more and more cables being laid, we have an NPO ISP with many great members on its way.



Just watch what you say (without pay) some members of the PRIVATE NPO ISP might find this offensive and May kick you OUT.

I also was willing to contribute at NO PAY... and provide certain service at actual costs, but got kicked out.

Remeber the current NPO ISP can only trade January 2010, if all things go Smoothly .... maybe we shall see something before that which can benefit all south africans and much lower internet costs

[kwaggawerner]

And now this thread is my only entertainment... since D-9 has just been nuked... ;( :mad:

[somewherenotthere]

But things must have progressed quite a bit if salaries are being discussed.

Care to share any available details?:D yes... we are finalising the first members and deciding on a name. As soon as registration is completed, we can start operating... so watch this space!

I can only see great things coming from this, with an NPO their is no point in accumulating profits, so bandwidth prices will fall!:cool:

[Fantastic1]

Yes, we believe you had honourable intentions...

We just could not sleep at night, with everyone in MyBB wanting to know, how we came to purchase bulk bandwidth, from a cellphone airtime shop...even if you were next door to Neotel Midrand Hub.

We shall knock on their door...


Remember before you go Knock on Telkom/Neotel/Seacom/MTN/Vodacom/IS/SAIX get registered first before they provide you with any pricing and with any contracts


Our Intentions were Totally honourable, we were willing to provide the NPO ISP with costs per MB on smaller amounts and much cheaper than the norm.

Our Actual Costs .... No Profit to the NPO ISP....

we have certain economies of scale already .. you dont know our business and you dont know our capabilities, so do not undermine or underestimate our company from the south coast..

[rebel998]

Well let's hope it does get off the ground and does exactly what is is supposed to without lining someone's pockect.

We've got enough of those here already.:D

[Fantastic1]

Well let's hope it does get off the ground and does exactly what is is supposed to without lining someone's pockect.

We've got enough of those here already.:D

Well i Hope to ... :) Lining someones pocket .. i am not too certain on this :D:D:D

[somewherenotthere]

Well let's hope it does get off the ground and does exactly what is is supposed to without lining someone's pockect.

We've got enough of those here already.:D

It can never do that by law... from what I can tell, the NPO is full of people that share that goal. and if they don't the other members have legal voting right to remove them as well as other remedies against them for breaking the law.

I am excited... I am tired of paying high prices for bad services. Time for some change in SA. I'm glad I am a part of something that can make it happen! And will put my effort and skill into it, make a difference instead of griping.

[Fantastic1]

It can never do that by law... from what I can tell, the NPO is full of people that share that goal. and if they don't the other members have legal voting right to remove them.

I am excited... I am tired of paying high prices for bad services. Time for some change in SA. I'm glad I am a part of something that can make it happen! And will put my effort and skill into it, make a difference instead of griping.

what LEGAL VOTING RIGHT ..... You just get KICKED OUT

let them show the correspondence on the VOTING to KICK FOUNDING MEMBERS OUT ....

This will be interesting to see ... Lightscribe just kicks out

[rebel998]

When/where can we get more info?

I did not know that this project has developed this far.:D

[Fantastic1]

When/where can we get more info?

I did not know that this project has developed this far.:D

There is a PRIVATE NPO ISP Forum

Just Ask Lightscribe .... he will ADD you ON...

Then he MAY WITHOUT ANY VOTING By ALL MEMBERS

KICK YOU OUT As he SO WISHES :D:D:D:D

[rebel998]

I wish to enter please lightscribe.:D

[Fantastic1]

It can never do that by law... from what I can tell, the NPO is full of people that share that goal. and if they don't the other members have legal voting right to remove them as well as other remedies against them for breaking the law.

I am excited... I am tired of paying high prices for bad services. Time for some change in SA. I'm glad I am a part of something that can make it happen! And will put my effort and skill into it, make a difference instead of griping.


THE NPO ISP was Offered FREE Hosting of the Voting Channels
but it seems some members want to line their own pockets cheaply


"Lighstscribe states"
Kasbah and I are both interested in AIML chatbots. I will work on the 3D photo realistic Avatars, with involuntary reactions, that will be our chatbot support staff for basic support. He will work on the AIML code. We will lease our combined products to the NPO ISP cheaply, as a launch pad for leasing to other web based companies.

Kasbah and I are still happy to be nominated for any position in the NPO ISP.

[Lightscribe]

This is a preliminary breakdown of the NPO ISP Structure.

Salaries will be paid at market related minimum wage for the industry.


Management committee/Governing Body/Forum Founder Members ( Minimum 7, constant 42)
--------------------------Chairperson (1)
-------------------------------\/
---------------------------Directors (2)
-------------------------------\/
---------------------------Secretary (1)
-------------------------------\/
------------------------------CEO (1)
-------------------------------\/--------------------------------\/
----\/-----------Webmaster/Technical Manager (1)---Promotions Manager/Public Relations Officer (1)
----\/-------------------------\/--------------------------------\/
Website-------------Technical Staff (1, max 3)--------Promotions Staff (1, max 3)
----\/-------------------------\/--------------------------------\/
Auditors--------------Support Staff (2, max 3)------------WASP Staff (1, max 3)
----\/-------------------------\/--------------------------------\/
Attorneys--------------Bandwidth Clients--------------------SMS Clients
----\/-------------------------\/--------------------------------\/
Paygate---------------Payment Systems---------------Wasp Payment system
----\/-------------------------\/--------------------------------\/
----------------------NPO ISP Bank Account[/B]



Forum: 1, Virtual NPO office and record keeping, decision making centre.

Founder Members: Minimum of 7, Governing body, Must always be kept at 42 members. Voluntary

Chairperson: 1, Always chosen from Founder members first. Voluntary

Directors: 2, Always chosen from Founder members first. Voluntary

Secretary: 1, Always chosen from Founder members first. Salaried

CEO: 1, Always chosen from Founder Members first. Salaried

Webmaster/Technical Manager: 1, Always chosen from Founder members first. Salaried

Website: 1, Online payments accepted. Paygate as the payment solution.

Promotions Manager/Public Relations Officer: 1, Always chosen from Founder members first. Salaried

Technical Staff: 1 Minimum. Always chosen from Founder members first. Salaried

Support Staff: 2 Minimum. Always chosen from Founder members first. Automation as soon as possible. Salaried

Auditors: 1 Company. Nationally renowned and respected.

Attorneys: 1 Company. Nationally renowned and respected.

Paygate: 1 Company. Nationally renowned and respected.

WASP payment system: 1, Inhouse or 1 Company. Nationally renowned and respected.

Payment systems:WASP, EFT, Credit Card, Vouchers from national food retail and service station chains. No bank deposits and the associated problems.


In order to ensure the effective and legal operation of the NPO ISP, it is the duty of each NPO ISP member to familiarise themselves with the "Guidelines to Section 21 Companies" http://www.population.org.za/section21companies.htm

Also http://www.etu.org.za/toolbox/docs/building/lrc.html and http://www.paralegaladvice.org.za/docs/chap15/16.html

Fantastic1, rather than make childish remarks about how you will work for free and how we should not pay staff...Prove your statements.

Rather than wasting time telling us how much you want to do for SA, I suggest you start an NPO ISP, since you claim to have all the requirements already. Remember, no salary for you...

Please be sure to post your progress on MyBB...

As I said before, others can follow our example, since SA would love nothing more than a price war between NPO ISPs....never mind the other ISPs.

[Lightscribe]

I wish to enter please lightscribe.:D

Send me a PM, with your name, age, and CV summary, but NO ID.no at all, nor a date of birth.

It will be posted in a Candidate thread. We choose from there, when a member leaves. :)

[Fantastic1]

why dont i be part of this NPO ISP... no need for price war as if the NPO ISP works in a Truely NPO then the prices will be Low

Why DONT YOU Show on this Forum How Many of the members wanted to Vote me out and you Kicked me OUT without a Majority Vote ... That is ILLEGAL

[Fantastic1]

requested Re-Enter on your PM

[Fantastic1]

did you see the NEW NANDO's ADvert
:eek:

[Fantastic1]

POST The Voting Result to have me Kicked Out Last Week ..
If no majority of the votes can be established, then I cannot be kicked out and would need to be re-entered into the NPO ISP.

If the NPO ISP is TRUELY Honest and whereby South Africans can trust then POST The Results as requested whereby Majority of the Members Voted me Out.

There are also other members who have been taken out ... reason they wanted to Offer FREE Hosting and Collaboration Services.... but Lightscribe you decided to nominate yourself to sell cheaply to the NPO .. so you kicked them out as well...

[I am Penguin]

Gawd, this only just started and already the problems abound. FAIL?

[Lightscribe]

Gawd, this only just started and already the problems abound. FAIL?

No, sour grapes... :)

[Smooth Criminal]

Oh dear, there's conflict already :( Just another day in SA telecoms I suppose.

[Lightscribe]

POST The Voting Result to have me Kicked Out Last Week ..
If no majority of the votes can be established, then I cannot be kicked out and would need to be re-entered into the NPO ISP.

If the NPO ISP is TRUELY Honest and whereby South Africans can trust then POST The Results as requested whereby Majority of the Members Voted me Out.

There are also other members who have been taken out ... reason they wanted to Offer FREE Hosting and Collaboration Services.... but Lightscribe you decided to nominate yourself to sell cheaply to the NPO .. so you kicked them out as well...

After you started performing and making your veiled threats...in the NPO ISP forum...You tried the same trick, to get me to disclose the names, of those that PMd their concern about you.

Nice try.

[I am Penguin]

Oh dear, there's conflict already :( Just another day in SA telecoms I suppose.

"Tel-None" VS "No-Tel" ?

[I am Penguin]

After you started performing and making your veiled threats...in the NPO ISP forum...You tried the same trick, to get me to disclose the names, of those that PMd their concern about you.

Nice try.

So you have the exclusive result of PM's that voiced concerns and thus then took Unilateral action?

[Fantastic1]

Gawd, this only just started and already the problems abound. FAIL?

you aint seen nothing yet .. it is the tip of the iceberg ..

This Lightscribe Character has a Inferiority Complex .... He THE BOSS.
you upset him ...he kicks you out..

I requested the Voting Results... lets see how transparent and HONEST the NPO ISP can be ... This is the Test

[I am Penguin]

you aint seen nothing yet .. it is the tip of the iceberg ..

This Lightscribe Character has a Inferiority Complex .... He THE BOSS.
you upset him ...he kicks you out..

I requested the Voting Results... lets see how transparent and HONEST the NPO ISP can be ... This is the Test

Nah, Ill stick with Tlekom, less issues it seems.

[Fantastic1]

:)

[Lightscribe]

I have the PMs and there's the thread itself. It will not be made public.

The_Librararian has Mod priviledges and may read it. Then everyone can simply be notified that the members that were present, were happy to have him removed.

[Fantastic1]

I have the PMs and there's the thread itself. It will not be made public.

The_Librararian has Mod priviledges and may read it. Then everyone can simply be notified that the members that were present, were happy to have him removed.

thats not all the votes ...how may votes.... it is just 1 thread ... and this was your tread ..

were are the votes ...this is not proper voting

[Lightscribe]

thats not all the votes ...how may votes.... it is just 1 thread ... and this was your tread ..

were are the votes ...this is not proper voting

No one registered yet. No registration, no confirmation of the number. Think before you speak.

Membership numbers fluctuate with new members coming in, others leaving.

About 20 of those that were there when you were there, are no longer there.

29 Right now. 29 candidates right now too.

Tomorrow, through to the end of the week, as many more will come and go.

I gave you an option for the truth to be seen by a Mod, which is more than you deserve.

[Rosaudio]

i had suggested that NO Salaries to be taken for at least the first 6 months to ensure the NPO ISP gets running properly...

I agree with this

[Lightscribe]

I agree with this

Great! :) Would you please sign an employment contract with those terms, with us.

We would love to have people like yourself, who are willing to work with us, for free, for the first six months. We will have voluntary positions.

[Fantastic1]

Why have the 20 that were there when I was are no longer there, have you kicked them out too
For being willing to contribute freely and voluntary to the success of the NPO ISP.

PROVIDE ALL THE VOTES OF THE MEMBERS WHO AGREED TO HAVE ME REMOVED
NOT JUST 1 of YOUR OWN THREADS, THEN I Would be SATISFIED.

IF NOT, THEN LIGHTSCRIBE NPO ISP IS A FARCE, LIE, DISHONEST, And hiding things
How a NPO should Be Run. 1 Thread cannot be taken with the removal of founding members

Where are all the AGREES to remove me as a member after your thread.

NOTHING, ZILTCH, NOT EVEN 22 Which is required before YOU Removed Me

RPM Should BAN THIS NPO ISP If it CANNOT Provide The 22 Agreed Votes to remove
A founding member who contributed and was willing to contribute to the success of the NPO ISP
Irrespective if I live on the south coast, north coast, timbuktoo, or next door to your
House

[Milano]

Is there any other way to follow the progress other than this thread which seems to be getting trolled?

[Lightscribe]

After all, the majority of us will give our time for free...

Not many paid positions, in that chart I show a few posts back...

Join us and work for free... :)

[Lightscribe]

Why have the 20 that were there when I was are no longer there, have you kicked them out too
For being willing to contribute freely and voluntary to the success of the NPO ISP.

PROVIDE ALL THE VOTES OF THE MEMBERS WHO AGREED TO HAVE ME REMOVED
NOT JUST 1 of YOUR OWN THREADS, THEN I Would be SATISFIED.

IF NOT, THEN LIGHTSCRIBE NPO ISP IS A FARCE, LIE, DISHONEST, And hiding things
How a NPO should Be Run. 1 Thread cannot be taken with the removal of founding members

Where are all the AGREES to remove me as a member after your thread.

NOTHING, ZILTCH, NOT EVEN 22 Which is required before YOU Removed Me

RPM Should BAN THIS NPO ISP If it CANNOT Provide The 22 Agreed Votes to remove
A founding member who contributed and was willing to contribute to the success of the NPO ISP
Irrespective if I live on the south coast, north coast, timbuktoo, or next door to your
House


I gave you an option for the truth to be seen by a Mod, which is more than you deserve. :rolleyes:

[Fantastic1]

Who would want an employment contract with a NPO ISP when 1 member does his own thing

Where are all the agreed to remove.

THIS SEEMS LIKE A FARCE - PROOVE ME WRONG BY DISPLAYING ALL THE AGRRED TO REMOVE
Then I can say that it was Fair and the NPO ISP may be running properly and fair

[I am Penguin]

No one registered yet. No registration, no confirmation of the number. Think before you speak.

Membership numbers fluctuate with new members coming in, others leaving.

About 20 of those that were there when you were there, are no longer there.

29 Right now. 29 candidates right now too.

Tomorrow, through to the end of the week, as many more will come and go.

I gave you an option for the truth to be seen by a Mod, which is more than you deserve.

So the 20 that voted against the "fired" member are gone now :confused:

How much is to be Invested to get this of the ground? Where is the funds for infrastructure coming from.

I will join when a full operating structure is set up with all legal requirements in place with advertised pricing and service assurances.

This sounds a lot like a previous venture that went very sour on MyBB. The incumbent is still probably abroad with the registered members contributions paying for his departure.

[Rosaudio]

Great! :) Would you please sign an employment contract with those terms, with us.

We would love to have people like yourself, who are willing to work with us, for free, for the first six months. We will have voluntary positions.

Wish I could man but I got serious studying to do

All the best though and good luck :)

[Fantastic1]

Beware of service assurances if lightscribe is doing the SLA & T&C
He will disconnect anytime he feels fit gor himself

Funding - they wishing from goverment funding as a NPO or from Angel Investors
With no profit

[I am Penguin]

Beware of service assurances if lightscribe is doing the SLA & T&C
He will disconnect anytime he feels fit gor himself

Funding - they wishing from goverment funding as a NPO or from Angel Investors
With no profit

But is it not a fact that salaried staff "members" are making a profit, for themselves. All this for a 15% saving on IS. I will wait for seacom to come to my rescue then.

[Milano]

Fantastic1, have I met you? Is your name Levi?

[Fantastic1]

No, my name is not Levi

[Lightscribe]

So the 20 that voted against the "fired" member are gone now :confused:

No, I'm sure the ones that were present, when Fantastic1 was removed, are still here.

I merely point out his pathetic argument, about the actual number of members, that were there as confirmed members, that were willing to send their ID numbers to the attorneys for registration. The actual number is still blowing in the wind...like his argument.


How much is to be Invested to get this of the ground? Where is the funds for infrastructure coming from.

I have no idea. We are in the very early stages of planning. No registered members or a Mod/Secretary yet.This should be finalised by tomorrow.


I will join when a full operating structure is set up with all legal requirements in place with advertised pricing and service assurances.

Great, we will keep everyone updated in this thread...If people can wade through Fantastic1's blathering...


This sounds a lot like a previous venture that went very sour on MyBB. The incumbent is still probably abroad with the registered members contributions paying for his departure.

I made sure that there will be external auditors. And random independent audits.


9. Finance
9.1 An accounting officer shall be appointed at the annual general meeting. His or her duty is to audit and check on the finances of the organisation. Separate independent audits will performed at any time without any notice whatsoever being given to the organisation.

9.2 The treasurer’s job is to control the day to day finances of the organisation. The treasurer shall arrange for all funds to be put into a bank account in the name of the organisation. The treasurer must also keep proper records of all the finances. Separate independent audits will performed at any time without any notice whatsoever being given to the treasurer.

9.3 Whenever funds are taken out of the bank account, the chairperson and at least 12 other management committee members of the organisation must authorise the Electronic Funds Transfer. No other form of payment, or receipt of payment will be allowed.

No cash, cheques, money orders or any other form of payment whatsoever, other than via Electronic Funds Transfer or credit card, may be handled or dealt with by the organisation or any member thereof, in the execution of it's/their duties, on behalf of the organisation.

All payments to the organisation will be strictly via Electronic Funds Transfer or credit card. All payments by the organisation will be strictly via Electronic Funds Transfer.

9.4 The financial year of the organisation ends on ____________________

9.5 The organisation’s accounting records and reports must be ready and handed to the Director of Nonprofit Organisations within six months after the financial year end.

9.6 If the organisation has funds that can be invested, the funds may only be invested with registered financial institutions.

These institutions are listed in Section 1 of the Financial Institutions (Investment of Funds) Act, 1984. Or the organisation can get securities that are listed on a licensed stock exchange as set out in the Stock Exchange Control Act, 1985.

The organisation can go to different banks to seek advice on the best way to look after its funds.

[Fantastic1]

Correct I am penguin, I even offered the NPO ISP a 20% discount on IS prices
From IS only for the NPO ISP,

I want to contribute to the NPO ISP but lightscribe thinks wrong.
That maybe the reason the 20 other members may have left or have been
Kicked out which is the norm in the NPO ISP if Lightscribe does not change
His attitude towards people and companies, this will be a FARCE as well

Rather call it ISP and not NPO ISP or even LOW COST ISP

Having a NPO has rules and regulations and Lightscribe is not following them.

I want to see the 22 agreed to remove votes or I call this A FARCE NPO ISP

[I am Penguin]

No, I'm sure the ones that were present, when Fantastic1 was removed, are still here.

I merely point out his pathetic argument, about the actual number of members, that were there as confirmed members, that were willing to send their ID numbers to the attorneys for registration. The actual number is still blowing in the wind...like his argument.



I have no idea. We are in the very early stages of planning. No registered members or a Mod/Secretary yet.This should be finalised by tommorrow.



Great, we will keep everyone updated in this thread...If people can wade through Fantastic1's blathering...


I made sure that there will be external auditors. And random independent audits.

I will look again in six months when I see/hear results. Thanks.

[Lightscribe]

Wish I could man but I got serious studying to do

All the best though and good luck :)

Thank you, we will do our best to bring everyone cheaper bandwidth prices as soon as we possibly can. These next few months will fly by.

Good luck with the studies. :)

[Lightscribe]

I will look again in six months when I see/hear results. Thanks.

Great, thx for the interest. :)

[Fantastic1]

I am not blathering, Lightscribe you are evading my single most important
Question

Where are all the agreed to remove from the threads

There is NONE or not even 20 , you removed me after you posted that thread to remove

[Marketing Study]

Why do you guys not start small? Be an ISP for an area like Bellville. Then grow your own capital to expand into other areas? Do not go too big to fast! Go read up on how McDonalds was started by a guy selling milkshakes and he later bought McDonalds from the McDonalds brothers to go international, in your case national. Their key ingredient was simplicity and affordability.

My new book, one of the best influential bestsellers of all time, “think and grow rich,” by Napoleon Hill. I would like to quote a small piece in the book. “Every adversity brings with it the seed of an equivalent advantage.”

This is what you guys have right now! The chance of a life time!
Corporate companies don’t have to do it as they are raping S.A
We need products like uncapped gaming, email, YouTube, face book, web surfing uncapped with shaped downloads and capped downloads. Google and Face book charges the consumer nothing and yet they make billions. People do not all the time use these 24/7, Games, emails, YouTube.
This is why you only cap and shape things like torrents p2p and so on? When you discover some one is abusing the service black list him from getting internet again. These could be home user accounts. Businesses and leeches need to pay if they want to horde the internet for the rest of the country.
Combine Open brows with advertisements for local then add gaming protocols, email, YouTube, face book, web surfing uncapped with* Optional TV subscription added services. So instead of broadcasting live TV streams too people rather upload it so they can view it the whole of next day like a PVR by selecting which series they would like to download. They will have built in adverts with no way of forwarding or skipping them.
Possible I think SO! The engineers of Ford said it is impossible to build a V8 with the all the thingies in one block but the guy from Ford said keep trying till you figure it right. So at the end they did and became the best affordable selling engine of its time.

[I am Penguin]

Thank you, we will do our best to bring everyone cheaper bandwidth prices as soon as we possibly can. These next few months will fly by.

Good luck with the studies. :)

Have you been in contact with Seacom/Neotel yet or only with IS?
That quote you posted about finance, is that from the legal document or still only a draft proposal?

[Lightscribe]

Why do you guys not start small? Be an ISP for an area like Bellville. Then grow your own capital to expand into other areas? Do not go too big to fast! Go read up on how McDonalds was started by a guy selling milkshakes and he later bought McDonalds from the McDonalds brothers to go international, in your case national. Their key ingredient was simplicity and affordability.

My new book, one of the best influential bestsellers of all time, “think and grow rich,” by Napoleon Hill. I would like to quote a small piece in the book. “Every adversity brings with it the seed of an equivalent advantage.”

This is what you guys have right now! The chance of a life time!
Corporate companies don’t have to do it as they are raping S.A
We need products like uncapped gaming, email, YouTube, face book, web surfing uncapped with shaped downloads and capped downloads. Google and Face book charges the consumer nothing and yet they make billions. People do not all the time use these 24/7, Games, emails, YouTube.
This is why you only cap and shape things like torrents p2p and so on? When you discover some one is abusing the service black list him from getting internet again. These could be home user accounts. Businesses and leeches need to pay if they want to horde the internet for the rest of the country.
Combine Open brows with advertisements for local then add gaming protocols, email, YouTube, face book, web surfing uncapped with* Optional TV subscription added services. So instead of broadcasting live TV streams too people rather upload it so they can view it the whole of next day like a PVR by selecting which series they would like to download. They will have built in adverts with no way of forwarding or skipping them.
Possible I think SO! The engineers of Ford said it is impossible to build a V8 with the all the thingies in one block but the guy from Ford said keep trying till you figure it right. So at the end they did and became the best affordable selling engine of its time.

Yes, thanks for the input. We want to see just how low we can go to give people uncapped. We also will sell per gig, due to the interest.

Below is a rough outline of what some of the options are. We will plan from 100 clients up. We will start working on the details soon. The prices we are quoted, once registered will simply fit into the model.


We need to start creating our business plans.

Use this thread to put forth an idea you have, on ways the NPO ISP could do business, or save money.

I bookmarked this thread a while back.


Sorry to burst this discussion a bit, but the way a business will manage these costs has nothing to do with the direct cash flows shown in the OP.

The money to lease the line for 20 years will most likely be borrowed, the loan being paid off over 5/10/20 years.

Then the line will be considered an asset of the ISP and will be "depreciated" over the length of the useful life of the lease, being 20 years. So to put rough estimates on it, 5% of the cost will be expensed each year, plus the maintenance costs and interest on the loan.

Ignoring interest(not knowing how this would be financed), the cost would then be R1,805,250 for the line per year and R1,444,200 for maintenance.

This works out to R3,249,450 per year / 150Mbps / 12 months
= R1,805.25 per month for a dedicated 1 Mbit line for first 4 years..
= R1,604.67per month for a dedicated 1 Mbit line for years 5-7..
and = R1,504.38 for rest of the lease.

Note that the price for us, drops every few years... :)



But this assumes 100% capacity utilisation from day dot.

An often overlooked risk with the IRU model is that your real cost per Mbps/month is not related to the capacity you have, but rather the capacity you've sold.

During your ramp up period you will not have sold 100% of your capacity, but your certainly going to be paying for it. Therefore the price per Mbps/month for the capacity you have sold will be greater as it still has to carry the full capacity cost, thus pushing up your service pricing.

In our case, we should have the 100% utilization by having a Promotion Month.



Remember not all traffic is international.

...and international usage of your pipe can be heavily reduced through caching of international content on local servers.

I'm not sure what the contention ratio ends up being at the international potion of the network, but i'm guessing it may be alot higher than 20 to 1.

But then i'm just guessing.

There are more ways to save costs. I will dig that post up.


So, that means a Non Profit Company needs only 3249 clients to make a SEACOM purchase a reality, by paying upfront for the year, their mere R1000,45 bandwidth fee. That we can call one "Module".

Salaries, for let's say 50 staff members for 24/7 service, at R5000,00 per person, per month, would come to R3 000 000,00 per module per year.

Each client pays R923,36 per year for that. Although I see a need for no more than 5-10 support staff per 3249 member module.

Only 3249 people sharing a 150Mbps line, for around R2000,00 a year each...

3249 divided by 150 = 21.66 clients per 1Mbps pipe at around R166 cost per client to us.

We can use these numbers to realistically calculate most of our costs. http://posix.co.za/seacom

1MB + data = R8,500 (eight thousand five hundred rand) per month; and Fixed term of 36-months.
On the expiry of the 36 month period, the price will be reduced to a maximum of R2,000 (two thousand rand) per MB per month. This price will only be available to shareholders.

We can then find a nice way to market the "Modules".

Basically, we need to have a group of plans, each ready to implement, according to the number of clients signing up though Promotion Month.

By Launch Date, we simply go with the plan and supplier that fits the number.

IE:
100-1000 clients = SAIX, IS~Value Channel Partner.

1000-2000 clients = SAIX, Neotel/SEACOM~1Mbps at a time.

2000-3000 clients = SAIX, SEACOM/DarkFibre~15Mbps at a time.

3000-4000 clients = SAIX, Infraco, SEACOM~Purchase our own STM1 (150MB) subscriptions of cables.

[Lightscribe]

Have you been in contact with Seacom/Neotel yet or only with IS?
That quote you posted about finance, is that from the legal document or still only a draft proposal?

We have not contacted them yet. The CEO's first tasks will be interviews with the suppliers/carriers.

That is from the constitution. It will be agreed to by all all members before registration.

[Marketing Study]

Excuse me but what happens when let’s say Telkom feels threatened by your business plan and copies it or push you out of the market as the very well can? Will you register patent rights on your plans? I would advice not publicly sharing any of your core ideas?

[Lightscribe]

I want as many people in SA or the world, if applicable, to see the solutions.

The solution is critical mass...People simply need to do something, rather than always discuss the issue. Start, anywhere, get the people together and make it happen.

We are all here for a reason. We want to pay realistic prices for our bandwidth.

The day telkom takes us on in a price war, and drops their prices below ours, we have won.

We can maintain it for ever. We hope telkom can. Really we do...then it means the people will have what has been kept from them by exhorbitant prices.

Excuses about lack of capacity and thus the high prices, as we know now, that telkom upgrades the cables for instant extra capacity, due to SEACOM, shows their greed and callousness.

If they refuse to sell to us, we will simply purchase from the other players entering the market now.

BTW, we will only be needing SAIX for some clients needing a specific product. telkom will be mostly avoided.

[Marketing Study]

I see your point Lightscribe but then again you forget Telkom is brilliant tacticians as it was never their goal for long term sustainability. They knew one day their collapse would come but they will not stop till the last drop. Investors are funny creatures they work on one tiny habit. They want to make loads of money fast, they want guarantee that they will not lose their money invested.

Now Telkom has been using basic economic flaws to make huge sums of net profits. ICASA’s laws are allowing for these grey areas to be exploited. The world of the high end investors that buy shares loved Telkom to death. They most likely don’t have the same investors per year. I love the way they say you will save 90% on bandwidth and all they need do was give you one gig more for free and that would have meant you get about that percentage a month. The government is stupid I am sorry or brilliantly exploiting us all.

They were never interested in the community it is a cash cow like most companies on the JSE. Investors feel 0% for the people.

Here comes the magic part when just as seacom launched Telkom magically had more upgrade capacity on their network. I love these big boys. Now your plans will ultimately fail if you do not take some legal precautions’ beforehand as Telkom and friends will drop prices till you are dead somehow and then will say a cable broke and push everything sky high again.

Please quote me: Monday August 17, 2009 3:33AM –You will ultimately fail against the Telkom’s if laws are not revised and LLU.

[Lightscribe]

Yes, they are crafty...

But the world is against them... http://www.broadband4africa.org.za/view-signatures

LLU is 2011. telkom tried to delay it forever. They will not be able to get past 2011.


This should be easy. If ICASA can't even conduct a market share study, then we will.

We simply need to get Varsity students involved and interested institutions from those that signed the Broadband Framework.

In fact, we may be able to get paid to do the market share study, from the very fund that should be helping bring such a solution about.


The government’s efforts to overhaul outdated telecoms legislation by passing the Electronic Communications Act in 2006 was also slated at Internetix.

Mashile said one “absurdity” in the act was that Icasa could not force Telkom to let other operators access its wires that connect to residential and business premises without conducting a study to confirm that Telkom was indeed a monopoly operator.

Even though Telkom clearly had a monopoly, Icasa’s hands were tied unless it went down “this labyrinthine path” of conducting a market share study.

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Telecoms/8981.html

We will proceed with caution and make sure we have our ducks in a row. We know telkom won't smile. We're not here to do that...

[Marketing Study]

I just feel their lawyers are super awesome with them pulling rabbits out of hats and doing all sorts of magical tricks. Telkom lawyers spend weekends as magicians or con-artist as a hobby. Telkom is run by about 99% lawyers. You are right there is always a way when you are determent enough to get it.
I would like to wish my best of luck as you will certainly need it in this coming war. So how will this LLU work really? Does this mean I will not need to pay my ADSL line rental and phone rental anymore at 1 of January 2011? Still that is a year away, by then NeoTel would be in full force as their network is slowly getting better.

So have you made provisions for 160 Mbps realistic on LTE as ADSL2+ will not even be able to compete? Will you be rolling this network out for your back bone too smaller out of reach areas?

[Lightscribe]

Yep, telkom must be pure laywer then. :)

Thanks for the interest. We will do our best.

Who knows the exact date for LLU, but we will hurry it along...

We will not be looking at high speed development. We will concentrate on reducing bandwidth costs.

Yes, we have plans for the rural areas with some WISP projects proposed.

[Marketing Study]

So how much does 10meters of copper cost compared to 10meters of fiber? Why not roll out fiber or something other than copper too homes or estates and complexes on the light poles?
I have some educational initiatives I would like to share to resolve some problems but cheap telecoms are core to my plans success. WISP will blend very well! We need to educated our people fast and effectively as the more literate people we have the better.
The ANC or DA could even fund for mobile schools then, kids can learn and do home work from home like UNISA. We need to give 1 House and 1 Computer for the people of S.A and educate every one. This will be an investment in our future and it is my dreams, to one day build S.A as if I’m playing a game of Sim City.

I’m sure mark shuttleworth wouldn’t mind supplying his new linux with Grade 1-12 + postgraduate self study Software and wikis/Encartas. The mobile vans can go to the community hall, every week end perhaps for kids to write the test? Teachers can be prerecorded or virtual?
People need to be able to get free recognized qualifications and telecoms are mission critical! Would it not be your corporate responsibility to the community to perhaps take on this initiative as well, as government would most likely fund you?

But bravo and remember you are the champions of the people as Telecoms is not only the back bone to communication but too the future!

[rebel998]

Send me a PM, with your name, age, and CV summary, but NO ID.no at all, nor a date of birth.

It will be posted in a Candidate thread. We choose from there, when a member leaves. :)

Will do when I get home this evening. (before 9pm):D

[The_Librarian]

I have the PMs and there's the thread itself. It will not be made public.

The_Librararian has Mod priviledges and may read it. Then everyone can simply be notified that the members that were present, were happy to have him removed.

Not in this thread I haven't got mod privileges.

Unless you're referring to another thread?

[Zenbaas]

Gawd, this only just started and already the problems abound. FAIL?

It should be abundantly clear by Fantastic1's posts as to why he was removed.

Beware of service assurances if lightscribe is doing the SLA & T&C
He will disconnect anytime he feels fit gor himself

Funding - they wishing from goverment funding as a NPO or from Angel Investors
With no profit
Troll much....you seem no less dodgy now then when you were removed and any trace of credibility that you may have had before you left is COMPLETELY gone now...sad.


Not in this thread I haven't got mod privileges.

Unless you're referring to another thread?

I think he means his PM's.

[Praeses]

It should be abundantly clear by Fantastic1's posts as to why he was removed.

But vloer-moers (moere?) would be so beneficial to the ISP! :p

[Fantastic1]

Those prices indicated by lightscribe EXCLUDES the local Telkom IPCONNECT
Charges which is needed to be able to feed your local/international
Bandwidth to your clients.
So the calculations may be incorrect.

[somewherenotthere]

So how much does 10meters of copper cost compared to 10meters of fiber? Why not roll out fiber or something other than copper too homes or estates and complexes on the light poles?
I have some educational initiatives I would like to share to resolve some problems but cheap telecoms are core to my plans success. WISP will blend very well! We need to educated our people fast and effectively as the more literate people we have the better.
The ANC or DA could even fund for mobile schools then, kids can learn and do home work from home like UNISA. We need to give 1 House and 1 Computer for the people of S.A and educate every one. This will be an investment in our future and it is my dreams, to one day build S.A as if I’m playing a game of Sim City.

I’m sure mark shuttleworth wouldn’t mind supplying his new linux with Grade 1-12 + postgraduate self study Software and wikis/Encartas. The mobile vans can go to the community hall, every week end perhaps for kids to write the test? Teachers can be prerecorded or virtual?
People need to be able to get free recognized qualifications and telecoms are mission critical! Would it not be your corporate responsibility to the community to perhaps take on this initiative as well, as government would most likely fund you?

But bravo and remember you are the champions of the people as Telecoms is not only the back bone to communication but too the future!

If telkom has to bring down their costs, the NPO ISP would be doing exactly what it set out to do. Also remember that it has investors which require telkom to make a profit and then distribute it to the investors whereas an NPO cannot distribute it and therefore will pass on the profit in the form of lower end-user costs.

A big part of good management is taking into consideration the future of the entity, therefore changing with the times is just part and parcel of running a company well.

[Fantastic1]

Not in this thread I haven't got mod privileges.

Unless you're referring to another thread?

I honestly wonder what is going on here . :D

Lightscribe says The_Librarian has mod privileges and now The_Librarian says he does not. Honestly I trust The_Librarian ;)

It does not mean I do not see the Votes ... I still wait to see how many AGREED to Remove was there - has to be more than 50% before I rightfully got removed.

Lets wait and See

[Frankc]

Well let's hope it does get off the ground and does exactly what is is supposed to without lining someone's pockect.

We've got enough of those here already.:D

Not a change because I too was kicked out because I fighted with Lightscribe about the very same issues.

I can and will soon show proof that

1) I simple offered to host a temporally backend where members can vote, collaborate online etc with the RIGHT tools since MyBB as discussion platform can hardly compared with a true online collaboration program

But lightscribe then made a u-turn and shot everythng I do or want to help with down because members are not allowed to sponsor etc etc.

Take note that a desire to sponsor, thus GIVING, from a founder member was shotted down by Lighscribe several times over and over.

2) At the same time Lightscribe want to use the NPO ISP to earn money for himself by lease bots to the organisation and use the NON PROFIT organisation as marketing tool for commecial reasons to line his pockets.


Kasbah and I are both interested in AIML chatbots. I will work on the 3D photo realistic Avatars, with involuntary reactions, that will be our chatbot support staff for basic support. He will work on the AIML code. We will lease our combined products to the NPO ISP cheaply, as a launch pad for leasing to other web based companies.

Kasbah and I are still happy to be nominated for any position in the NPO ISP.

As with any member, we may need to decline a nomination if we feel we would like to be in another position, for which members still need to vote.

So, I nominate 3D Chatbots for the Support Staff, other than the two human support staff, negating the need for Management. Two human support staff do not need a manager. Kasbah and I will "manage" the 3D Chatbots as per a lease agreement with the NPO ISP.

If that is not a total misuse of the NPO ISP for financial gain then I don't know while Lightscribe, despite many times said the "members" must decide, many times made decisions on his own, kick members out that differ from him etc.

Take note that above is a TAKE from the NPO ISP, most likely illegally too or at very least very unetichal, but yet Lightscribe things it's 100% his right to take but at the same time decline sponsorship by a member????

[Frankc]

Listen guys. It's easy to blame someone when you don't have the facts and to be honest, I myself saw that Fantastic1 was removed and also thought that it's not so a bad idea etc.

But when I got almost the same treatment from Lightscribe when I almost immediately after voted in as member spend the majority of 24 hours to help improve, build and make things better, I started to wonder.

If you are so easy to condemn someone, can I DARE you to accept the following challenge?

I will post factual correct information here, and your guys can then tell me what you think?

[Frankc]

:) Nominate...As in asking opinion.... I make it clear that I and another member can offer a service that reduces costs dramatically.


Maybe you can also explain here why you see nothing wrong with above Lighscribe, but at the same time when I offer FREE temporally hosting until we have our own servers, you in SEVERAL posts said it cannot be done because MEMBERS CANNOT SPONSOR.

Now tell me, if I "sponsor" something for free, why is it wrong considered your post above?


We cannot allow any member to "sponsor" the hosting solution or any programs. That will raise eyebrows


The public and our competitors will find fault in it. It seems that there is undercounter deals/referral commisions going on.

Wow, honestly but how can they find fault if a member temporally sponsor hosting, at a mere R95 per month until we get our own servers, while at the same time he want the NPO ISP to pay him, as member, for something and even use them for advertising of his products??

Also, I NEVER said that we must move the MyBB based forum and in fact said it's perhaps not so a good idea, but yet, many times, you absulutely insisted that I said that.

You also many times said I decided this and that etc, but as with above, I many times challenged you to show proof where I "decided" or where I said this or that what you accussed me off.

And attack someone's personality because you don't agree with him is really very, very bad Lightscribe.

FACT of the matter is that almost 99% of the "negative" posts from me is to defend myself against you with not a single of the other initial positive posts anything else than helping, supporting, trying to do my best.

It's no wonder that the majority of the other founder members don't even seems to be interested anymore.

[Fantastic1]

No one registered yet. No registration, no confirmation of the number. Think before you speak.

Membership numbers fluctuate with new members coming in, others leaving.

About 20 of those that were there when you were there, are no longer there.

29 Right now. 29 candidates right now too.

Tomorrow, through to the end of the week, as many more will come and go.

I gave you an option for the truth to be seen by a Mod, which is more than you deserve.

Maybe that is why the 20 of those people or NO Longer There... or maybe just got kicked out..

makes you wonder :eek:

[Gatecrasher]

All this reminds me of Lord of the Flies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Flies). Anyone read it? Was a set book at school...

[Fantastic1]

:D

[Lightscribe]

Not in this thread I haven't got mod privileges.

Unless you're referring to another thread?

Oh, no problem.

Will let you know later of the voting results. Most members seem interested to have you as the Mod/Secretary.

Have a great day,
Wayne

[Pr⊕phet]

/sigh why do some ****er always have to come along and go with some interwebz dama :rolleyes:

a) new thread
b) pm system
c) stfu

...o well guess i need more of the coffee, that must be it.

[Fantastic1]

Just ask Lightscribe ..... PM Him :)

[Fudzy]

this has been your tactic...look a few posts up by other members who were kicked out by yourself ..... and also what happened to the 20 members who left/kicked out from the NPO ISP ....

Who's Lining Who's Pocket Here
:eek::eek::eek:

How much money did you pay him?

[Fantastic1]

did not pay him any money, but spent a lot of time as a Ex Founder Member with some very resourceful information which they would not have received as they do not have the IECNS / IECS Licenses. Provided them indicative costs for IPConnect and the contention ratios to setup own basket of products . Including the international pricing

Did commit to R 500 towards the registration of the NPO ISP, and also if any salary is to be paid to me - The NPO ISP can keep it as a donation from my side until it becomes operational properly. i further suggessted that all members to do the same .

i think some people did not like the idea i suggessted no pay until npo isp is properly operational and to contribute voluntary for the success of the npo isp.

[Fantastic1]

it is not about the money but the ethical and proper management of a NPO ISP which is at question here.
People get kicked out without any proper voting - 1 man makes the decision, i am still waiting to see all the votes of agreed to remove me from the PRIVATE NPO ISP Forum.

it must indicate the date and time and the members MyBB username and agreed or +1 to remove me from the NPO ISP.

[Pr⊕phet]

***kerlakker 3 ?

[Fantastic1]

This Will continue after the commercial break..... hopefully with some answers to the Q?

[Frankc]

it is not about the money but the ethical and proper management of a NPO ISP which is at question here.
People get kicked out without any proper voting - 1 man makes the decision, i am still waiting to see all the votes of agreed to remove me from the PRIVATE NPO ISP Forum.

it must indicate the date and time and the members MyBB username and agreed or +1 to remove me from the NPO ISP.

I joined about at the time when you was kicked out and did not see any voting except for perhaps one or two members that afterwards said good YOU kicked him out Lightscribe.

As indicated by other founder member with high qualifications his concern is that decisions are made without proper structure and with under skilled members.

With the staff positions being filled with those with the best qualifications, it means that the decision making members would consist of a bunch of St. 8 and St, 10 people and others that don't have techncal knowledge.

[Frankc]

You can examine this post yourself to see what i am talking about.

I tried my best to explain things as clear as possible but right under this post and further Lightscribe just continue with his incorrect, false and misleading rantings.



As member of this NPO ISP we all share a common goal and are a member because we want to work together to reach such goal.

In normal circumstances there would be discussions, meetings, decisions and separation of individual tasks so that a group of people can work together to achieve something that they have in common but we however have an additional challenge because everything must be done online instead than in an office environment.

Just as an email program is for email, a browser for browsing the internet and a bookkeeping program for accounting, a forum is for discussions and many other programs are designed for specific goals in mind.

Right from the start I realized that a DISCUSSION board like MyBB is simple just not designed and suitable for a task as outlined above hence my suggestion to build a voting system with different capabilities and installation of a program like WebCollab that was specific designed for such task, that is Online Project Collaboration.

Everyone so far agreed it’s a “good” improvement but that lead to the next issue.

Such “goodies” that have different capabilities to make our task easier however require it’s own web hosting environment and since it don’t cost me a cent I offered to host THAT for free. (I already said it’s better NOT to move the forum and also that I only refer to the “goodies” and not official website)

Despite the obvious benefit of such goal specific “goodies” the objection was that it cannot be hosted, sponsored by a member and we can ONLY use MyBB but

- the organisation don’t have any funds yet to pay for separate hosting,

- the organisation is not even registered yet and “legal” grounds is not yet applicable,

- it’s only temporally until we have our own servers (thus before going live) and

- while I don’t think there are any “legal” grounds that prohibit members to contribute something to a NPO it’s obvious that, when we have our own servers, the BEST is to host it ourselves.

FACT is sooner or later we are going to need hosting to test different programs before going live, make our lives easier as members or to do something specific and despite our “loyalty” to MyBB we just have to get on with things.

We however find us in a paradox because on the one hand we NEED sponsorship, donations or money to get our own hosting or servers but on the other hand we can legally NOT ask for sponsorship, donations or money before we are registered.

We also cannot wait till registration and the obvious solution is that I provide the hosting because,

- can OUTSIDE providers be trusted and where do we get the money and

- as member there is NO legal issues whatsoever why I cannot offer temporally FREE hosting,

- as member I am already have access to insider info so what security issues is there if I host such goodies?

To summarize the logical thing to do is to vote whether we can or cannot

1) use outside hosting for such goodies, to test programs etc, and
2) A member can sponsor such temporally hosting.

Once that is done and agreed upon, we can move to the next stage to collaborate our task online so that members know what’s what, what’s going on, what’s done or must be done and what task are delegated to what members.

This is where the WebCollab program as mentioned above comes in because it was specific designed for that purpose:

WebCollab is a collaborative web-based system for projects and project management; WebCollab is easy to use, and encourages users to work together. The software is functionally elegant and secure without being cumbersome for users, or graphically intensive.

The software is ideally suited to tracking multiple projects and innumerable small tasks across an organisation of any size. If you have reminder notes stuck all over your desk, then you need WebCollab!

For a better idea of what WebCollab can and does, have a look at http://webcollab.sourceforge.net/

It’s simple impossible for ME to explain the many benefits of such program for each and every member and the organisation but I am 100% sure it’s far, far better than using a decision board as is currently the case.

Of course we can still use MyBB for discussions and I actually recommend it but such program will minimize friction because it organise everything and each member will know precise what is what.

(I offered to host such programs for free until we get our own servers, simple because I have 200+ websites of my own and hundreds of clients on my own web hosting servers (International datacenter) and it doesn’t cost me a cent. Obviously the Mod/Secretary or whoever is suitable can take FULL responsibility and control over such programs)

The mere fact that there was infighting is already proof enough that we without doubt need something much better to maximize input and limit “misunderstandings” and ironically my WHOLE suggestion that would solve that was the base of such arguements.


Lighscribe's response right below this post


I dare you to point out how that sentence equates to making the chatbot decision on my own.

I'm nominating. Unlike you, now demanding vehemently, that your servers be used, because you're such a nice guy...

Nowhere did I said the decision was made, but just take note of the wording of his own post and that I demanded that my servers being used, HUH?

Lighscribe posted this later


You were welcome, to make your ideas happen, as long as they do not include the removal of data from this MyBB sponsored private forum, untill all members voted on it.

I keep reminding you of this fact. You keep screaming about your right to do so...

Despite already replied several times previously that I never said such thing and in fact said it's not a good idea.

After one member asked "Is that forum functional" and I have no clue as to what forum she refer I replied.


What forum?

I can easily install phpbb or full Invasion Powerboard forum for the founder members but are not sure whether it's good idea at this stage. (Don't want to give the impression that we want to lure mybroadband members to other forum and it's internationally hosted)

On the positive side WE can have full control over the forum, enable polls, file uploads, our own admin, moderator and member structure etc.

From above it's CLEAR as daylight that I never said I want the MyBB board moved but Lighscribe many times lambasted me about that. (And because the other members don't read all posts, they just took Lightscribe's word for it they start siding with him)

[TheRoDent]

Sounds to me like this NPO ISP is on it's way every other association or non-profit is. Some people just like to be "in charge of things".

Fighting about control. "Lord of the flies" I guess ....

[Frankc]

Not really fighting about control.

I don't mind to work under a good chairman etc but even if my boss in the commercial world made a mess I will take him up on that if it would to the benefit of the company / organisation.

In this case the problem is most likely that Lightscribe are simple not able to be in control but as you said, some people like to be in control.

A good boss will only consider the facts before him, not make uninformed decisions and place the wellbeing of the company above his own and particularly make friends not enemies.

[Fantastic1]

Agreed with you Frankc - 100%

I wanted to truely contribute and did contribute my time and knowledge to the
NPO ISP ,

It NPO ISP can be a very good platform to reduce costs for all SA,
But it need to be manage properly and make friends and do not undermine
Or underestimate any1 capabilities.

It is a group effort all working together for a greater good of all SA,
Each of us have our own skills and I am willing to contribute freely to
A properly well managed NPO ISP.

[Lightscribe]

It is sad when some people try their best to destroy, what a group of concerned people are trying to build.

No registration has yet taken place, thus, the waffling of Fantastic1 is irrelevant.

We are a group of people at the moment. No Rules yet. We are in the infancy of the organisation.

I came up with the idea. I was offered a private forum to see if it will work.

I am the one who kicked your slimey ass out Fantastic1. Face the fact.

I did not need anyone to agree with me. They did however. As you are painfully aware.

I will explain nothing to you. You are nothing. A performing monkey perhaps, but nothing more...

Frank, you can wail and perform too...about what a great person you also are. You also did not fool us. You are a mean and nasty little creature. You even told everyone so in your CV summary...Get over yourself.

Good luck to you both, convincing the MyBB members, of your oh so honourable intentions.

[Lightscribe]

Not really fighting about control.

I don't mind to work under a good chairman etc but even if my boss in the commercial world made a mess I will take him up on that if it would to the benefit of the company / organisation.

In this case the problem is most likely that Lightscribe are simple not able to be in control but as you said, some people like to be in control.

A good boss will only consider the facts before him, not make uninformed decisions and place the wellbeing of the company above his own and particularly make friends not enemies.

Like calling your fellow members stupid? Wake up nasty...

[Lightscribe]

Agreed with you Frankc - 100%

I wanted to truely contribute and did contribute my time and knowledge to the
NPO ISP ,

It NPO ISP can be a very good platform to reduce costs for all SA,
But it need to be manage properly and make friends and do not undermine
Or underestimate any1 capabilities.

It is a group effort all working together for a greater good of all SA,
Each of us have our own skills and I am willing to contribute freely to
A properly well managed NPO ISP.

Yes, we really believe you...Easy to make claims...Wake up liar...

BTW, you are just shining with good intentions...Wake up FARCE....

[rebel998]

I hope this idea gets off the ground.

It's a really good idea.:D

[afrodeity]

I'm in. We need something like Worknet, which was a vibrant online community and service provider in the early nineties. It got killed because Telkom basically took the view that mobile was the thing, and killed dialup. As we know, it has taken a decade to get to the point where low-cost communications allow the kind of connectivity needed to sustain a community.

Please join ZA-FREE and promote Internet Access. http://www.facebook.com/search/?o=69&init=s%3Agroup&q=za-free#/group.php?gid=58254549200&ref=search&sid=670907230.1139243397..1

[bobdihi]

Lightscribe, by now i suppose you did your calculations. Give us a idea how much cheaper you planning to be.

[Lightscribe]

I hope this idea gets off the ground.

It's a really good idea.:D

Thanks rebel998 :)

[Lightscribe]

I'm in. We need something like Worknet, which was a vibrant online community and service provider in the early nineties. It got killed because Telkom basically took the view that mobile was the thing, and killed dialup. As we know, it has taken a decade to get to the point where low-cost communications allow the kind of connectivity needed to sustain a community.

Please join ZA-FREE and promote Internet Access. http://www.facebook.com/search/?o=69&init=s%3Agroup&q=za-free#/group.php?gid=58254549200&ref=search&sid=670907230.1139243397..1

Great send me a CV summary PM, with name and age, but no ID or birth details and you will be added to the Candidate member's list. :)

[Lightscribe]

Lightscribe, by now i suppose you did your calculations. Give us a idea how much cheaper you planning to be.

We do not have concrete prices yet, but we will use a variety of ideas to help drop the price as low as is possible.

We hope to sell at no more than R300-R400 for 384k uncapped, but throttled to 192k daytimes.