UK Journo scared of SA

[Serqet]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/Soccer/WorldCup/383/66d6a1799ee847f9bd22b9a1b59e933e/13-07-2009%2008-07/UK_journo_scared_of_SA

Do you agree or disagree with the journalist?

I think she's exagerating a tad.

[killadoob]

One Surfermoon said South Africans were offended by the “poorly researched and inflammatory article”. “Doesn’t the successful hosting of the World Cup cricket and rugby World Cup, not to mention the Indian Premier League and Confederations Cup count?”

She says she is worried about HIV? Well b^tch if your going to screw someone without a condom anywhere in the world you can be at risk of HIV.

She sounds like a slut who does not like condoms and thinks every single SA has AIDS hahaha

F off you stupid cow, we can and will host an amazing comp just like we have done in the past. I do not recall any problems with the Pro 20 and confed cup we just hosted, i did not hear many stories of people being raped and murdered that had come from other countries to watch these comps.

[daveza]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jul/07/louise-taylor-south-africa-2010-world-cup


Statistics, anecdotes and research suggest that touring the Rainbow nation as a fan next summer could be a dangerous option. In fact, the 2010 World Cup should have gone to Egypt.

An alarmist and ill-informed article which has over 450 responses mostly in favour of SA hosting the 2010 cup.

I have to agree with one concern of hers -


Of course, much violence occurs in the townships but, looking in from the outside, a major problem appears to be the lack of public transport. Where are the wonderful train services that helped Germany 2006 run so smoothly? After reporting on last month's Confederations Cup, the journalist Gabriele Marcotti wrote: "Public transport is generally poor and, besides, most foreign tourists are told not to take buses and trains."

We are less than a year away from the 2010 Cup - the taxis are gearing up for war, we in Cape Town still have not even a whiff off anything resembling a transport plan and I'm waiting to see the much lauded new buses.

This from Capetown.gov.co.za :-


Transport
Joint funding by all three spheres of government to improve Cape Town’s transport infrastructure
Major investment in the rail system
Development, enhancement of strategic transport corridors and major routes
Restructuring of road-based public transport services into unified, integrated public transport services
Investment in long distance public transport facilities
Investment in Non-Motorised Transport facilities (NMT)
Intelligent transport systems and travel demand management
Stadium precinct infrastructure and inner city distribution system
Comprehensive overall operational management of the support systems including safety and security
Airport to city link

Major investment in the rail system - none at all
Restructuring of road-based public transport services into unified, integrated public transport services - none at all
Investment in long distance public transport facilities - none at all
Investment in Non-Motorised Transport facilities (NMT) - ??!
Intelligent transport systems and travel demand management - invisible or doesn't exist
Stadium precinct infrastructure and inner city distribution system - we wait with bated breath.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how we are going to get 68000 people out of the stadium and out of the city before the sun comes up.

[Serqet]

LOL I also thought it was a bit dramatic. Sheesh! I think she might be up for an Oscar.

[boramk]

+1

[Mila]

I think she has the cat by the tail a bit but hey what do these people read about us and as a woman how scared should you be of rape when it happens every minute in this country and now our police is in Doodoo because they cooked the crime figures.
So yes we know she has the wrong idea, but i was not allowed to go to Israel because they capture white woman and put them in to harems....

“Such fears are usually based more on perceptions than statistics, but unfortunately the statistics – not to mention anecdotal evidence – confirm that soccer fans like me have reason to be more than a little anxious,” she wrote.
/\
|
This part of her article is the truth though.

[timgaul]

I don't blame her, but then it is the media's fault. However, I don't think stupid people should come here, a midnight stroll around a township is probably not going to be the safest idea (but then again neither is a midnight stroll around Hyde Park).

[timgaul]

I think she has the cat by the tail a bit but hey what do these people read about us and as a woman how scared should you be of rape when it happens every minute in this country and now our police is in Doodoo because they cooked the crime figures.
So yes we know she has the wrong idea, but i was not allowed to go to Israel because they capture white woman and put them in to harems....

“Such fears are usually based more on perceptions than statistics, but unfortunately the statistics – not to mention anecdotal evidence – confirm that soccer fans like me have reason to be more than a little anxious,” she wrote.
/\
|
This part of her article is the truth though.

Well, as South Africans, we're all frightened of the statistics.

[rebel998]

Guys, look at whats happening here. Cars are still getting set alight when people disagree with things!

I agree some people might be scared to come here.

But if they don't sort the strike out soon we can forget 2010.:D

[Serqet]

I agree Mila. There is some truth to her story but i feel rather warn people of the reality of living in SA than terrify the crap out of them about coming here. Yes crime is a problem but if you are aware of your surroundings you can avoid it.

[EtienneK]

So far so cheery. Then there was the recent news that G4S, the world's biggest security firm, has declined to work at next summer's World Cup. Nick Buckles, the organisation's chief executive, took that decision after revealing that G4S rated South Africa more dangerous than Iraq and Afghanistan.

WTF...??

No seriously... WTF?!!!

Edit: I find this very hard to believe. Looking at G4Ss website, they have a very strong presence in SA: http://www.g4s.com/za and here: http://www.g4s.com/home/g4s_worldwide/south_africa.htm

Only a retard would not pursue a big security contract for the World Cup. Something sounds off in the article. Or Nick Buckles is just being sour because he didn't get the contract.

[ldmelsa]

her fear of crime, HIV
HIV? LOL
WTF is she planning on doing? :erm::D

[bwana]

WTF...??

No seriously... WTF?!!!My guess is they're worried about making the necessary financial investment in SA - if the financial return was good enough they'd do it.

[Mila]

I agree Mila. There is some truth to her story but i feel rather warn people of the reality of living in SA than terrify the crap out of them about coming here. Yes crime is a problem but if you are aware of your surroundings you can avoid it.

+10

Who watched the hulk last night? Is that how Brazil looks? I would never ever go there if it looks like that!! I hate crowds.

And as far as i know that is only in the movies:o

[VJB 449]

I stay in SA and I'm scared!! :eek:

[EtienneK]

My guess is they're worried about making the necessary financial investment in SA - if the financial return was good enough they'd do it.

See the edits to my original post.

[Mila]

HIV? LOL
WTF is she planning on doing? :erm::D

Well that is still a crime .... for now :D

[ldmelsa]

Well that is still a crime .... for now :D

anything for 2010 :o

[daveza]

Then there was the recent news that G4S, the world's biggest security firm, has declined to work at next summer's World Cup. Nick Buckles, the organisation's chief executive, took that decision after revealing that G4S rated South Africa more dangerous than Iraq and Afghanistan.

I doubt Iraq/Afghanistan have 50 murders a day, hijackings, 100's of rapes, - so I'm not surprised at this comment.

[bwana]

See the edits to my original post.From Reuters - http://www.reuters.com/article/olympicsNews/idUSLK4638820090520

[killadoob]

I doubt Iraq/Afghanistan have 50 murders a day, hijackings, 100's of rapes, - so I'm not surprised at this comment.


Bwhahahahahaha are you joking?

Yea i want to see a world cup hosted in iraq and afghanistan, now that would be flippin funny.

Man some people are idiots claiming those countries are safer hahahahaha, made my morning that comment.

[Mila]

anything for 2010 :o

It does feel like our country will sell its soul for this cup.:o

[killadoob]

Mila why do you say that? What are we selling for this world cup?

We have hosted many big sporting events with huge success so why would the world cup be any different?

I fail to understand all these concerns when we have hosted so many big tournaments with no problems. This world cup is the biggest thing to happen in Africa and it the biggest sporting event in the world, so yes we will do all we can to ensure we host it really well just like we have done with so many other tournaments.

[daveza]

Jordaan said his country had hosted many major international and sporting events, including the current Indian Premier League Cricket competition, which was moved to South Africa at short notice because of security concerns during India's general election.

"Our country has hosted at least 146 events ... safely and securely and we are confident this will again be the case for the 2010 FIFA World Cup," Jordaan said in a statement.

Danny Jordaan has good intentions but he's either an eternal optimist or believes his own spin.

The Fifa world cup is the biggest single event in the world and the rugby and cricket events pale to insignificance by comparison. I really believe we have no idea of the magnitude of what's going to be required in less than a years time.

[killadoob]

Danny Jordaan has good intentions but he's either an eternal optimist or believes his own spin.

The Fifa world cup is the biggest single event in the world and the rugby and cricket events pale to insignificance by comparison. I really believe we have no idea of the magnitude of what's going to be required in less than a years time.

So you think organizing the indian premier league with 3 weeks notice is a breeze?

30-50 thousand people at a match almost everyday at different venues around the country, i think you fail to understand how well we can organize tournaments.

The negativity about this world cup from our own citizens is shocking if you ask me.

[rebel998]

Wil sy kom spyker of sokker kyk?:D

[EtienneK]

From Reuters - http://www.reuters.com/article/olympicsNews/idUSLK4638820090520

Sour grapes :D

[Chris]

Mila why do you say that? What are we selling for this world cup?

We have hosted many big sporting events with huge success so why would the world cup be any different?

I fail to understand all these concerns when we have hosted so many big tournaments with no problems. This world cup is the biggest thing to happen in Africa and it the biggest sporting event in the world, so yes we will do all we can to ensure we host it really well just like we have done with so many other tournaments.

We already had the infrastructure for the Cricket/Rugby World Cups. Also the magnitude was far less in terms of accommodation etc. You're being very silly that because we hosted the Cricket and Rugby WCs successfully, then we will hose the SWC successfully. The SWC is on a totally different level to anything South Africa has experienced.

[killadoob]

Yes chris so what is your point?

We have never hosted the biggest comp in the world, so what we should tell Blatter we don't want it because we have never seen a comp on this magnitude?

I mean what is your point when you say we have not hosted such a big tournament, are you saying we cannot handle it? What do you base that on?

I for one am South African and always be and the world cup is the biggest comp in the world and we have the chance to host it, so i am not going to sit and whine and cry about how we have never hosted something like and we can't do it, why are you people so negative about this?

This is about the best thing to happen to South Africa since mandela was released. I say F all the haters and negative people.

BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[Serqet]

Of course there will be mistakes but i doubt the whole thing is going to be a complete shambles. Let's give our country a chance...

[daveza]

Bwhahahahahaha are you joking?

Yea i want to see a world cup hosted in iraq and afghanistan, now that would be flippin funny.

Man some people are idiots claiming those countries are safer hahahahaha, made my morning that comment.

http://www.nationmaster.com/statistics/stats


Murders (per capita) (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals Per capita
Definition Source Printable version
Bar Graph Map

Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount
# 1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
# 2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people


Assaults (per capita) (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals Per capita
Definition Source Printable version
Bar Graph Map

Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount
# 1 South Africa: 12.0752 per 1,000 people


Murders with firearms (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals Per capita
Definition Source Printable version
Bar Graph Pie Chart Map

Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount
# 1 South Africa: 31,918


Rapes (per capita) (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals Per capita
Definition Source Printable version
Bar Graph Map

Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount
# 1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people

It's hard to ignore the facts.

[killadoob]

So you think Iraq is a safer place to host a world cup with bombs almost daily?

Yes i see the logic.

[timgaul]

Yes chris so what is your point?

We have never hosted the biggest comp in the world, so what we should tell Blatter we don't want it because we have never seen a comp on this magnitude?

I mean what is your point when you say we have not hosted such a big tournament, are you saying we cannot handle it? What do you base that on?

I for one am South African and always be and the world cup is the biggest comp in the world and we have the chance to host it, so i am not going to sit and whine and cry about how we have never hosted something like and we can't do it, why are you people so negative about this?

This is about the best thing to happen to South Africa since mandela was released. I say F all the haters and negative people.

BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Its a case of "you can't host it because you've never hosted it before." :erm:

[Jozi101]

Yes chris so what is your point?

why are you people so negative about this?

BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.


The keyword here is soccer my friend;). If it's rugby or cricket it's fine, none of these people would a problem with that, and we all know the "REAL" reason for that. It has absolutely nothing to do with the magnitude of this tourney. We were bidding to host ANOTHER rugby world cup not long ago. I didn't hear anyone complaining then.

[daveza]

I'm saying that according the statistics you have a lesser chance of being a victim of crime and a greater chance of surviving the day in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

Hosting a world cup there is obviously a non-starter for a myriad of reasons, but crime isn't one of them.

[ghoti]

http://www.nationmaster.com/statistics/stats

It's hard to ignore the facts.

I think its very factual to state that anyone who thinks its safer in Afganistaan deserves to go and live there.

Im sure we have more hijackings than them.. but then.. we have more of these modern thingies called "cars" and "roads" (something the Romans helped us with).

I bet you Afghanistan as higher rate of camel accidents than South Africa therefore making it the most dangerous country in the world. zomg!

South Africa has real stats because despite the MyKKKers here its a pretty functional country compared to Afghanistan. Pakistan is a country thats ment to have a lower crime rate than us.. but WHY did the tournaments there get cancelled if it was so great?

Sure SA has its crime, but its not the same and you cant compare it to Afganistan. Anyone who would prefer to live in Afghanistan because they think its the slightest bit safer is a complete nutter and deserves to experience an IED.

Why the World Cup should not be held in Britian:
1) It has more terrorists wanting to blow it up
2) It has had more terrorists attacks lately
3) Fugly woman
4) Fugly food
5) Fugly weather
6) Pale fat males
7) Its the most violent country in the world (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html)

Come to South Africa.. Britians dont have to worry about getting HIVAIDS here.... theyre all too fugly to score here.

Stats are like religion, you can make them mean anything you want.

[icyrus]

How many events have South Africa attempted to host that required such massive resource investments in infrastructure?

My main concern with hosting the WC at this time was that it would divert funds and attention from areas that were critical to areas that are, in the long run, pointless.

[EtienneK]

http://www.nationmaster.com/statistics/stats

It's hard to ignore the facts.

Please stop using and quoting this site. It has been stated numerous times that that site does not include Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia or Brazil (which had the highest number of murders a few years back).

Yes, it's scary to be #1 on those stats. But without all the other more dangerous countries not included, it doesn't mean much.

So, your "facts" are not really "facts" at all.

[ghoti]

How many events have South Africa attempted to host that required such massive resource investments in infrastructure?

My main concern with hosting the WC at this time was that it would divert funds and attention from areas that were critical to areas that are, in the long run, pointless.

In this financial climate I would love to see the country that can afford to host it without taking a ding.

South Africa is not short on cash.. the problem is the cash we have is mismanaged.

[The_Pumpkin_King]

oh noes! AIDS!:eek:

but i live here!

[The_Pumpkin_King]

i voted yes, be afraid...very afraid!

more tickets/food/coke for me :D

less idiots

[Mila]

In this financial climate I would love to see the country that can afford to host it without taking a ding.

South Africa is not short on cash.. the problem is the cash we have is mismanaged.

+10

[icyrus]

In this financial climate I would love to see the country that can afford to host it without taking a ding.

There are a number of countries that could host it without spending a cent on infrastructure.


South Africa is not short on cash.. the problem is the cash we have is mismanaged.

And the WC is further adding to that mismanagement.

[daveza]

Please stop using and quoting this site. It has been stated numerous times that that site does not include Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia or Brazil (which had the highest number of murders a few years back).

Yes, it's scary to be #1 on those stats. But without all the other more dangerous countries not included, it doesn't mean much.

So, your "facts" are not really "facts" at all.

I somehow doubt that Iraq/Afghanistan combined have a higher murder, rape and assault rate than SA.

Terrorism is fortunately one thing we don't have on our list.

But for the record, the GS4 comment was based on the % of their security staff who were victims of crime - not those of the general population.

[Chris]

Yes chris so what is your point?

We have never hosted the biggest comp in the world, so what we should tell Blatter we don't want it because we have never seen a comp on this magnitude?

I mean what is your point when you say we have not hosted such a big tournament, are you saying we cannot handle it? What do you base that on?

I for one am South African and always be and the world cup is the biggest comp in the world and we have the chance to host it, so i am not going to sit and whine and cry about how we have never hosted something like and we can't do it, why are you people so negative about this?

This is about the best thing to happen to South Africa since mandela was released. I say F all the haters and negative people.

BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

It's funny you know. You think the 'pessimists' are always trying to bring down the country, yet they have far more realistic expectations than the dyed-in-the-wool optimists. Firstly, Germany made an overall loss for the SWC, so to say it'll 'benefit' the economy is stretching the truth a bit. Also considering that most of these stadiums are over budget, especially Green Point (:mad:), is going to make it hard (no...impossible) for SA to make a profit.

And have you ever considered the extremely realistic expectations that the WC will actually harm SA's tourism image? No I didn't think so. Already many international tourists get robbed here, now imagine how many poor souls will get robbed when millions come here :o Also with the massive media contingent these incidents will be well publicised overseas. What gives you so much optimism that we'll make it successful? It's already been proven that the ANC couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery...

[Serqet]

Well while i can see the issues with spending money on infrastructure at least on the plus side we will have the infastructure that's more in line with the rest of the world. No harm in that.

[Serqet]

And have you ever considered the extremely realistic expectations that the WC will actually harm SA's tourism image? No I didn't think so. Already many international tourists get robbed here, now imagine how many poor souls will get robbed when millions come here :o Also with the massive media contingent these incidents will be well publicised overseas. What gives you so much optimism that we'll make it successful? It's already been proven that the ANC couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery...

There was a documentary on Discovery about tourists being robbed in India as well as Spain. Why? Because tourists are always easy targets and they know that when going to a foreign country. You should take it upon yourself to familiarise yourself with the country you are about to visit. Nobody is saying SA is a walk in the park but there isn't a hijacker/rapist on every street. We may live in a jungle at times but we aren't surrounded by animals 24/7.

[icyrus]

Well while i can see the issues with spending money on infrastructure at least on the plus side we will have the infastructure that's more in line with the rest of the world. No harm in that.

Infrastructure spending is exactly what we need. My criticism is that its being spent on unneeded things. Every cent spent on stadiums etc for the WC was wasted in my opinion.

The only good thing to come out if it is increased transport infrastructure spending but even that is quite a mess.

[timgaul]

It's funny you know. You think the 'pessimists' are always trying to bring down the country, yet they have far more realistic expectations than the dyed-in-the-wool optimists. Firstly, Germany made an overall loss for the SWC, so to say it'll 'benefit' the economy is stretching the truth a bit. Also considering that most of these stadiums are over budget, especially Green Point (:mad:), is going to make it hard (no...impossible) for SA to make a profit.

And have you ever considered the extremely realistic expectations that the WC will actually harm SA's tourism image? No I didn't think so. Already many international tourists get robbed here, now imagine how many poor souls will get robbed when millions come here :o Also with the massive media contingent these incidents will be well publicised overseas. What gives you so much optimism that we'll make it successful? It's already been proven that the ANC couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery...

You argument is not correct, however the second part introduces a problem.

World Cups ARE NOT PROFITABLE for the government. We will take years to recover much of the cost, however smaller organisations (B&Bs, restaurants, etc) will come off much better.

World Cups are intended to showcase the country, and as a result encourage foreign investment and tourism. However, as you have pointed out, this event may prove to do the exact opposite and that is why it is so so important to ensure a World Cup devoid of any major incidents.

[EtienneK]

if the Egyptians could build the pyramids they could host a World Cup

Another gem from the article :D

[RetroBok]

I voted no journalists shouldn't stay away etc blah, blah....
Only because it can be good for S.A. on the whole if the MSM is concentrated in S.A. for the following reasons:

Show the world that S.A. might be/is capable of putting on a tournament of this magnitude. Who knows if it miraculously is pulled off, the Olympics are next :D
Although the statistics show how bad the crime is in S.A. a bit of exposure in MSM may put a little pressure on the government to do something about it.. or not.
Show the worl while not exactly hell, S.A. has a lot to offer as a tourist destination.
Show the world that the Vuvuzela is a complicated instrument that requires years of practice, many hours of hard work in front of the chimp enclosure at Joburg Zoo ;)

[ghoti]

There are a number of countries that could host it without spending a cent on infrastructure.

So we are getting a couple of stadiums. Wow.


And the WC is further adding to that mismanagement.

I dont agree with you fully. I think the WC is a good idea and being managed as best as it could now. If this was Apartheid the money would have being spent on weapons instead of stadiums.

I dont understand the whining to this.. I really dont. What I do know is you will find someone to whine about anything. Im sure if it had being the Rugby WC again there would be less whiners.

Its a pity during Apartheid more money went into Afrikaans backed Rugby than black based soccer. Then people would have less to whine about. I dont mind this catch up.

[timgaul]

Its a pity during Apartheid more money went into Afrikaans backed Rugby than black based soccer. Then people would have less to whine about. I dont mind this catch up.

Psst... psst... where were the opening match, one semi-final and final of the Confed Cup played? Yes, you got it! In an Afrikaans-back Apartheid-money Rugby Stadium!

[Mila]

I said yes because fear is a healthy thing.
If they come here and leave their stuff lying around all we are going to hear is how horrible it is in SA. So come and be safe.

[Aqua_lung]

She should come... so I can tell her to F**k off!

[grayston]

So you think Iraq is a safer place to host a world cup with bombs almost daily?


I don't think either SA OR Iraq are safe places to hold international sports competitions.

There are worse places than SA (there definitely are), but if you're attacked with a shovel and beaten over the head four times, it doesn't help when people accuse you of being a scaremonger because in Iraq they beat you over the head with an explosive shovel.

[daveza]

Just as an aside - can you imagine if one of the WC games was scheduled for Green Point stadium last night ?

This time next year....

[Jozi101]

Psst... psst... where were the opening match, one semi-final and final of the Confed Cup played? Yes, you got it! In an Afrikaans-back Apartheid-money Rugby Stadium!

And that's exactly how it should remain huh? Soccer should continuously aproach rugby unions for their venues if they want to stage anything. That's the main point of contention here. Rugby supporters make up a large portion of the whiners that are anti world cup.

[killadoob]

Psst... psst... where were the opening match, one semi-final and final of the Confed Cup played? Yes, you got it! In an Afrikaans-back Apartheid-money Rugby Stadium!


We need soccer stadiums not stupid crappy rugby pitches, that is why we need new stadiums.

[Jozi101]

I don't think either SA OR Iraq are safe places to hold international sports competitions.

There are worse places than SA (there definitely are), but if you're attacked with a shovel and beaten over the head four times, it doesn't help when people accuse you of being a scaremonger because in Iraq they beat you over the head with an explosive shovel.

Why are these concerns only raised when there's a Soccer competition coming up? Rugby has just had approx 40000 British & Irish Lions fans visiting, but i heard not a single person making such a claim. Forget about the IPL.

[killadoob]

Why are these concerns only raised when there's a Soccer competition coming up? Rugby has just had approx 40000 British & Irish Lions fans visiting, but i heard not a single person making such a claim. Forget about the IPL.

Yup i am not sure myself, not a single peep from anyone how we could not handle the IPL, all the english okes.

Yet doom and gloom for the confed and world cups.

[daveza]

40,000 ?

Some stats from the Germany World Cup...\


Facts and Figures: Germany
2006: 194 nations, 64 sold-out games, 32 teams
3,36 million spectators in 12 stadiums
18,4 million spectators at Fan Fests in 12 host cities
Average 2 240 hotel rooms per team per night
25 000 hospitality workers
Estimated 25-30 billion cumulative TV audience in 240 countries
18 000 plus media representatives

[RetroBok]

40 000 is small fry..... that's a stadium or half a stadium of people... WC is going to be a significant amount more than that....

The sheer logistics and how it will be handled will be interesting...
What the crime situation will be like by then who knows, during the comp, who knows? I just hope no tourists are killed/raped...

[daveza]

Btw, I'm not against the World Cup at all - in fact I can't wait.

But I'm waiting to see the transport infrastructure, the plans and I just don't see even a hint yet. We had a Mickey Mouse Confed Cup with half full stadiums and had massive transport problems.

Are we really going to up our game enough in the next 11 months ?

Nobody is taking the taxi threat seriously - and they are indeed serious.

Cape Town visitors will arrive at a superb airport - then within 1 kilometer drive next to a squatter camp, then past the Power station stink while the taxis are doing their thing.

With a global cumulative viewership of 25 billion I want to be proud of what they see and what they report back when the visitors return home.

[killadoob]

Retro the way you okes are talking is that there are going to be 3 million people going to watch a game hahaha.

That is far from the case. Firstly people coming here will book in advance, you won't have 3 million okes rocking up at OR tambo looking for accommodation.

25 billion? WTF there are roughly an estimated 7 billion people on planet earth.

[daveza]

I posted this a year ago -


Lets say there are 100 shuttles available ( maybe there are more? ) to transport spectators after the game. Let's say 75% of the spectators need to get to town for a train, car park or whatever - some will walk to town, others will head towards Camps Bay etc.

Thats just over 50,000 people needing a ride.

I presume these buses are free or do we stand in line to pay the driver?

With 100 shuttles carrying 100 people each each batch will transport 10,000 people.

Let's also say the round trip to town and back, load, offload, takes half an hour. That implies that the last batch of 100 buses will collect the last spectators 2 and a half hours after the game ?

I'm still wondering...

[RetroBok]

Retro the way you okes are talking is that there are going to be 3 million people going to watch a game hahaha.

That is far from the case. Firstly people coming here will book in advance, you won't have 3 million okes rocking up at OR tambo looking for accommodation.

25 billion? WTF there are roughly an estimated 7 billion people on planet earth.

Where did I say 3 million?
I said a significant amount more than 40 000 are going to be arriving in S.A. I'm interested in your prediction of how many people (Non local) will attend...

I hope S.A. manages to pull it off really I do, but a year away and I don't see any significant action to show how the transport system will cope with the sheer volume of people yet...

As for them arriving all at the same time.... not exactly the same time but almost, will OTI and the other airports be able to handle the sheer volume on top of the normal volume? Who knows but it's going to be a close one...

[Jozi101]

40 000 is small fry..... that's a stadium or half a stadium of people... WC is going to be a significant amount more than that....

The sheer logistics and how it will be handled will be interesting...
What the crime situation will be like by then who knows, during the comp, who knows? I just hope no tourists are killed/raped...

Dude, didn't we host the IPL, Cricket world cup, Rugby world cup before? Anyways, i give up. Personnally i can't wait to attend Games at that amazing Soccer city.

But who knows, maybe we need negative people like this to keep us on our toes. I believe it's gonna be beautiful. I've personnaly given up on trying to convince people about this.

[grayston]

Why are these concerns only raised when there's a Soccer competition coming up? Rugby has just had approx 40000 British & Irish Lions fans visiting, but i heard not a single person making such a claim. Forget about the IPL.

I'm sure you'll be able to answer that question by yourself.

[RetroBok]

Dude, didn't we host the IPL, Cricket world cup, Rugby world cup before? Anyways, i give up. Personnally i can't wait to attend Games at that amazing Soccer city.

But who knows, maybe we need negative people like this to keep us on our toes. I believe it's gonna be beautiful. I've personnaly given up on trying to convince people about this.

Yes you did, however I think you are conveniently uninformed as to the sheer volume of people that are going to descend on South Africa, the world cup after the olympics is THE biggest spectacle on earth (well bar malema opening his yap).

I'm not negative I'm a realist, I think the vast majority of people attending are going to be European and as such will be expecting a similar sort of infrastructure to Europe... I happen to think they will be disappointed... that's all...

[killadoob]

Retro this is africa i highly doubt that people coming here are expecting to see 1st world type transport and infrastructure.

We are not Europe but we will do our best to be ready!!!

[Serqet]

who cares i'm going to see gerrard :)

[Serqet]

Retro this is africa i highly doubt that people coming here are expecting to see 1st world type transport and infrastructure.

We are not Europe but we will do our best to be ready!!!

Exactly. We are a lot better off than the rest of Africa.

[Serqet]

They are coming here to watch the games not do surveys on our transport system.

[Jozi101]

Yes you did, however I think you are conveniently uninformed as to the sheer volume of people that are going to descend on South Africa, the world cup after the olympics is THE biggest spectacle on earth (well bar malema opening his yap).

I'm not negative I'm a realist, I think the vast majority of people attending are going to be European and as such will be expecting a similar sort of infrastructure to Europe... I happen to think they will be disappointed... that's all...

The only one who's misinformed here is you, that's why you sound all melodramatic in your discription of things. I work for a company that's building one of the stadiums and a host of other 2010 related transport projects. I really don't see how being so negative about everything is helping anyone.

[daveza]

Dude, didn't we host the IPL, Cricket world cup, Rugby world cup before? Anyways, i give up. Personnally i can't wait to attend Games at that amazing Soccer city.

But who knows, maybe we need negative people like this to keep us on our toes.

Negative no, realistic yes.

You simply can't comprehend the numbers who came from overseas to watch the rugby or cricket in comparision to the 500,000 - 750,000 expected tourists.

And a correction to a previous post - the Fifa world cup is the biggest event - bigger than the Olympics.

Consider this -

Over 300 million tuned in last December to watch the group draw for the 2006 World Cup - 300 million just to see Sepp Blatter pull ping pong balls out of glass tumblers!

[Aqua_lung]

Yes you did, however I think you are conveniently uninformed as to the sheer volume of people that are going to descend on South Africa, the world cup after the olympics is THE biggest spectacle on earth (well bar malema opening his yap).

I'm not negative I'm a realist, I think the vast majority of people attending are going to be European and as such will be expecting a similar sort of infrastructure to Europe... I happen to think they will be disappointed... that's all...

OK grandma, you forgot to take your painkillers again...

I pretty sure the world cup will be great, we pulled off the confed cup when people said we were not ready for it.

[Jozi101]

Negative no, realistic yes.

You simply can't comprehend the numbers who came from overseas to watch the rugby or cricket in comparision to the 500,000 - 750,000 expected tourists.

And a correction to a previous post - the Fifa world cup is the biggest event - bigger than the Olympics.

Consider this -

Over 300 million tuned in last December to watch the group draw for the 2006 World Cup - 300 million just to see Sepp Blatter pull ping pong balls out of glass tumblers!


Yeah, yeah, yeah I know....... we won't be able to handle it!!

I get the point.;)

[chiskop]

WTF...??

No seriously... WTF?!!!

Edit: I find this very hard to believe. Looking at G4Ss website, they have a very strong presence in SA: http://www.g4s.com/za and here: http://www.g4s.com/home/g4s_worldwide/south_africa.htm

Only a retard would not pursue a big security contract for the World Cup. Something sounds off in the article. Or Nick Buckles is just being sour because he didn't get the contract.

I seem to remember (though I can't find any links in a quick google) that there was a problem with the security tender for the Confed Cup - that the LOC was unhappy with the price G4 wanted and G4 was thought the LOC's demands were unreasonable.


There are a number of countries that could host it without spending a cent on infrastructure.

Such as? Even Germany built a number of stadiums specifically for the 2006 WC.


Cape Town visitors will arrive at a superb airport
What? The tent?

Anyway, the biggest complaint about the Confed Cup was about the vuvuzelas. If a R2 piece of plastic is the biggest problem - I think we did an alright job. :P

[daveza]

They are coming here to watch the games not do surveys on our transport system.

Unless they are extremely rich they will be based in one of the centres and will watch perhaps 6 hours of live soccer a week.

The rest of the time they will be tourists - and they will speak loudly if the transport system is not up to acceptable standards ( not international standards ).

Do we have ' acceptable ' public transport anywhere in the country ?

[icyrus]

Such as? Even Germany built a number of stadiums specifically for the 2006 WC.

America and most of Europe at least.

[RetroBok]

They are coming here to watch the games not do surveys on our transport system.

True, however when they can't get to Nelspruit or wherever to watch their team play because there's little to no transport infrastructure they'll be moaning...

[capetownguy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jul/07/louise-taylor-south-africa-2010-world-cup



An alarmist and ill-informed article which has over 450 responses mostly in favour of SA hosting the 2010 cup.

I have to agree with one concern of hers -



We are less than a year away from the 2010 Cup - the taxis are gearing up for war, we in Cape Town still have not even a whiff off anything resembling a transport plan and I'm waiting to see the much lauded new buses.

This from Capetown.gov.co.za :-



Major investment in the rail system - none at all
Restructuring of road-based public transport services into unified, integrated public transport services - none at all
Investment in long distance public transport facilities - none at all
Investment in Non-Motorised Transport facilities (NMT) - ??!
Intelligent transport systems and travel demand management - invisible or doesn't exist
Stadium precinct infrastructure and inner city distribution system - we wait with bated breath.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how we are going to get 68000 people out of the stadium and out of the city before the sun comes up.

All of the above information has been available for quite some time at the following link.

I'm not sure how many times I've shamelessly advertized the links at skyscrapercity.com yet every now and then there are those that believe "nothing is happening".

Ignorance is your choice. Enjoy.

[capetownguy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jul/07/louise-taylor-south-africa-2010-world-cup



An alarmist and ill-informed article which has over 450 responses mostly in favour of SA hosting the 2010 cup.

I have to agree with one concern of hers -



We are less than a year away from the 2010 Cup - the taxis are gearing up for war, we in Cape Town still have not even a whiff off anything resembling a transport plan and I'm waiting to see the much lauded new buses.

This from Capetown.gov.co.za :-



Major investment in the rail system - none at all
Restructuring of road-based public transport services into unified, integrated public transport services - none at all
Investment in long distance public transport facilities - none at all
Investment in Non-Motorised Transport facilities (NMT) - ??!
Intelligent transport systems and travel demand management - invisible or doesn't exist
Stadium precinct infrastructure and inner city distribution system - we wait with bated breath.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how we are going to get 68000 people out of the stadium and out of the city before the sun comes up.

Public Transport Investments: June 2009



Category 1: Rail system (incl. Park & Ride)

1.1 Rail Based Park & Ride Facilities
R 50.6 million




551Q/2008/09 TRANSPORT, ROADS & STORMWATER 19 June 2009 Upgrade Of Existing Park And Ride Facilities At Ottery And Retreat Rail Stations. (this Tender Document Is Not Available On The Cct Website.) (http://web1.capetown.gov.za/web1/newcitytenders/Tenderer_Info.asp?id=2187)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 550Q/2008/09 TRANSPORT, ROADS & STORMWATER 19 June 2009 Upgrading Of Existing Park And Ride Facilities At Brackenfell And Kraaifontein Rail Stations. (this Tender Document Is Not Available On The Cct Website.) (http://web1.capetown.gov.za/web1/newcitytenders/Tenderer_Info.asp?id=2186)


1.2 Rail Rolling Stock Upgrade
R1200 million

Category 2: Strategic Public Transport Corridors

2.1 Klipfontein Corridor
R286 million
STATUS: N/A

2.4 Symphony Way Corridor: Dualling from N2 to M12 including new bridge over N2
R52 million
STATUS: Under construction

2.5 Public Transport & Bus Infrastructure Upgrades on PT Corridors
R40 million
STATUS: N/A

2.6 Public Transport & Bus Upgrades on Corridors
R62.8 million

3.4 Hospital Bend Pre-Selection Scheme
R234.6 million
STATUS: On schedule, December 2009

3.5 IRT system
(Airport City Link, Stadium City Link, Table View City Link, Inner City System)
R1450 million
STATUS: On schedule, March 2010


3.6 R300 Upgrade
R525 million
STATUS: N/A

3.7 Airport City Link: BMT Lanes (Vanguard Drive to Borched's Quarry)
R200 million
STATUS: Under construction

3.8 Rehabilitation of Table Bay Boulevard
R110 million
STATUS: Under construction

Category 4: Long Distance Transport facilities


4.1.2 Cape Town Long Distance Coach Terminal
R35 million
STATUS: Under construction

Category 5: Non Motorised Transport infrastructure to support the operational plan

5.1 NMT Bridge Bhunga Avenue to Bridgetown
R 22 million
STATUS: Under construction


Category 6: Intelligent Transport Systems

STATUS: N/A
6.2 Integrated Fare Management System
R 100 million

Category 7: Stadium Precinct & CBD link Infrastructure

7.1 Local Road Improvements
R40.53 million
STATUS: Under construction


7.2 Bus Shuttle Embayment's (Including Signage)
R20.5 million
STATUS: Under construction


7.3 NMT network

7.3.1 Grade Separation Western Boulevard
R 53.4 million
STATUS: Under construction


7.3.2 Precinct Pedestrian and Cycle Improvements
R10 million
STATUS: Under construction


7.3.3 Somerset Road Pedestrian Improvements from Green Point Stadium to City Centre (CT Rail Station)
R 75 million
STATUS: Under construction by August 2009

7.3.4 Grade Separated Pedestrian Crossing: Buitengraght
R 32 million
STATUS: Under construction

7.3.5 City Centre Pedestrian Improvement
R 28 million
STATUS: Under construction

7.4 Informal Parking for FIFA Family at Greenpoint Stadium 3000 vehicles
R 30 million
STATUS: N/A

7.5 Inner City Transport System: Support Infrastructure
R 20 million

7.6 Granger Bay Boulevard
R21 million
STATUS: Under construction

Category 10: Other Projects not requiring PTIF funding

10.1 Upgrade Koeberg Interchange N1/M5 directional ramps & related infrastructure
R 705 million
STATUS: Under construction

[B]
Category 11: Additional Projects

11.2 Philippi Station Upgrade
R 65 million
STATUS: Under construction

11.3 Windermere Station and access road
R 45 million
STATUS: Completion June 2010

11.4 Athlone Station
[B]R5 million
STATUS: N/A

11.5 Langa Station
R67.5 million
STATUS: Under construction

11.6 Heideveld Station
R 18 million
STATUS: N/A

Category 12: Air based Transport Investments

12.1 Cape Town International Airport Upgrade (ACSA)
R2200 million
STATUS: November 2009 completion

[RetroBok]

OK grandma, you forgot to take your painkillers again...

I pretty sure the world cup will be great, we pulled off the confed cup when people said we were not ready for it.

Thanks for reminding me about my meds grandson, I hope that S.A. can pull off the World Cup, I'm not saying S.A. can't I'm being realistically "cautious" at the moment...

[Serqet]

I'm quite sure the government will make a plan. There are hundreds of taxi's at the airport everyday.

[killadoob]

OK grandma, you forgot to take your painkillers again...

I pretty sure the world cup will be great, we pulled off the confed cup when people said we were not ready for it.

We also pulled off the IPL with 3 weeks notice.

While the world cup is far bigger than those comps i am sure the people dealing with the world cup are not idiotic and realize the scale.

[capetownguy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jul/07/louise-taylor-south-africa-2010-world-cup




I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how we are going to get 68000 people out of the stadium and out of the city before the sun comes up.

Again, I'm not sure how many times this has been addressed.

I give up.

[daveza]

CT Guy to the rescue :)

Yes, I know we have amazing road infrastructure taking place -

But do you have any insight into the taxi threats and the impact this could have ?
And please tell me what Non-Motorised Transport facilities are ?

[daveza]

Again, I'm not sure how many times this has been addressed.

I give up.

If you can point me to a link with the answer I promise to stop asking.

[RetroBok]

We also pulled off the IPL with 3 weeks notice.

While the world cup is far bigger than those comps i am sure the people dealing with the world cup are not idiotic and realize the scale.

And therein lies the solution... it's still a year away a lot can be done it's a wait and see game atm.

@capetownguy, is all this work and investment being followed for ALL stadiums or just Cape Town?

I really can't see the tourists relying on the taxi industry to get them places, if they do more fool them

[capetownguy]

Btw, I'm not against the World Cup at all - in fact I can't wait.

But I'm waiting to see the transport infrastructure, the plans and I just don't see even a hint yet. We had a Mickey Mouse Confed Cup with half full stadiums and had massive transport problems.


I dare you to sign up.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=378

[capetownguy]

If you can point me to a link with the answer I promise to stop asking.

No. Join skyscrapercity.com.
Find out for yourself. I give up.

[killadoob]

I would imagine taxi's will not be used but those meter taxi's will make a flippin killing.

Wow actually i should look into that because damn you can make a mint being a taxi driver for the world cup.

[RetroBok]

I would imagine taxi's will not be used but those meter taxi's will make a flippin killing.

Wow actually i should look into that because damn you can make a mint being a taxi driver for the world cup.

Why fit 20 people into a Hi-Ace when you can fit 20 people into a Merc... :D

[daveza]

No. Join skyscrapercity.com.
Find out for yourself. I give up.

Been registered on the site since 2007....

... and I'm not saying nothing is being done.

Great stadiums, great new roads - my issue is with transport.
If there are plans to address this in a way which will benefit ordinary citizens long after the Cup is over then I look forward to seeing them take effect. Right now all I hear is talk and promises.

[capetownguy]

Been registered on the site since 2007....

The rest is up to you.

[Aqua_lung]

True, however when they can't get to Nelspruit or wherever to watch their team play because there's little to no transport infrastructure they'll be moaning...

This is Africa, they can take a safari on the way to Nelspruit, it adds to the excitement of visiting Africa. :D

[daveza]

I pretty sure the world cup will be great, we pulled off the confed cup when people said we were not ready for it.

FIFA president Sepp Blatter has hailed the Confederations Cup as a success, giving the organisation of the event a score of 7,5 out of 10.

Referring to the Confederations Cup as "the rehearsals" for the World Cup, Blatter said the event had been undertaken "satisfactorily". Security had been under scrutiny and had passed the test.
"The hospitality of South Africa is remarkable but we have to work on logistics. There is a problem of transport and accommodation which has to be solved before the 2010 World Cup, when we expect about 450 000 visitors into the country."
Most of these visitors - who would be football fans - would follow their teams and reliable transport and accommodation were essential.

At least one other person on the planet agrees there is a transport problem.

Or perhaps he's just being negative.

[RetroBok]

Attendance figures World Cup:
1990 2.5 million
1994 3.6 million
1998 2.7 million
2002 2.7 million
2006 3.3 million
2010: ???

I'm guessing in the region of 2.5-3 million attendance all in all. Obviously not all tourists, and let's not forget the press and T.V. etc (although a drop in the ocean).

[Aqua_lung]

FIFA president Sepp Blatter has hailed the Confederations Cup as a success, giving the organisation of the event a score of 7,5 out of 10.

Referring to the Confederations Cup as "the rehearsals" for the World Cup, Blatter said the event had been undertaken "satisfactorily". Security had been under scrutiny and had passed the test.
"The hospitality of South Africa is remarkable but we have to work on logistics. There is a problem of transport and accommodation which has to be solved before the 2010 World Cup, when we expect about 450 000 visitors into the country."
Most of these visitors - who would be football fans - would follow their teams and reliable transport and accommodation were essential.

At least one other person on the planet agrees there is a transport problem.

Or perhaps he's just being negative.

That sounds like success to me, I won't take the train or taxi either in SA. :D

[Mila]

Attendance figures World Cup:
1990 2.5 million
1994 3.6 million
1998 2.7 million
2002 2.7 million
2006 3.3 million
2010: ???

I'm guessing in the region of 2.5-3 million attendance all in all. Obviously not all tourists, and let's not forget the press and T.V. etc (although a drop in the ocean).

Nope i think Economy has more to do with this number.

[capetownguy]

[I]FIFA president Sepp Blatter has hailed the Confederations Cup as a success, giving the organisation of the event a score of 7,5 out of 10.

At least one other person on the planet agrees there is a transport problem.

Or perhaps he's just being negative.

There is definitely a transport problem but plans are in place to deal with the additional demand. They may be adequate or they may be totally inadequate. The operation of a temporary park and ride system doesn't dictate the transport success of our country. Its just an operational aspect of hosting a tournament. The real legacy would be whether this system is maintained for matches post 2010, whether the buses are re-introduced into the normal bus system, whether the 1000 additional buses from the DoT are used effectively elsewhere.

To deal with crowds, host cities usually have additional or top-up shuttle services to venues/airport etc.

Transport though is not a 2010 outcome but rather a long term goal we need to be working towards. 2010 is just one step in the right direction.

[RetroBok]

That sounds like success to me, I won't take the train or taxi either in SA. :D

Yes success to a degree however, you may not take the train/taxi, how on earth do you expect tourists to do so?

[capetownguy]

Tourists usually just hire shuttles or cabs to get around.
Some even use taxi's or trains in CT.

[daveza]

There is definitely a transport problem but plans are in place to deal with the additional demand. They may be adequate or they may be totally inadequate.

So we are faced with the ' possibility ' of a totally inadequate transport system.

In effect we have lovely stadiums and new roads - but we aren't sure whether or not we can actually get the 3 million spectators to where they need to be.

That is disturbing whichever side of the fence you are on.

[daveza]

Catch a train - you must be joking !

http://allafrica.com/stories/200906221110.html


Leave the wallet. Hide your ID. Take the sunglasses off. Get a few notes ready in your front pocket in case of mugging.

The most immediate dangers we noted were those in the mechanics and engineering of the train system. The train moved off from the Cape Town platform to Khayelitsha with the doors only half-closed.

On a London Underground train if a passenger so much as leans on a set of doors, a light turns on in the driver's cab and he warns everyone to move away. There are amber lights above every set of doors outside the train that reveal any set that has not fully closed - for example, if a bag has been caught. The train will not move until all the doors are shut properly.

All the windows had lost their upper panes so that they stayed permanently open, allowing even a fully grown adult to fit his head and shoulders through the gap.

Many of the doors simply didn't function at all.

Surprisingly, despite the reported 400 police deployed on the city trains, we did not see one on any of the trains we took, though there were some security guards on platforms along the way.

At Nyanga Weekend Argus photographer Mxolisi Madela rushed us off the train. He said he felt uneasy on the crowded coach and had been suspicious of a particular passenger who was eyeing his bag..

As outsiders - or the "sore thumbs" as colleagues had described us - we were concerned about the threat of robbery but also acutely aware of the lack of safety in open doors, missing windows and absence of fences along the tracks.

[Garyvdh]

I understand why tourism and optimism for the World Cup are necessary for bringing money to our shores, but at the same time it would be foolish to try and hide our problems.

South Africa is home to a lot of nice people yes, but we are also home to scammers, criminals, rapists, and rotten police and politicians... a heck of a lot of them. Crime and murder is bad here, very bad. So I can see where this lady is coming from.

I would love to see the World Cup be a huge success, but hold on to your wallet and don't trust anybody!

[alf101]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jul/07/louise-taylor-south-africa-2010-world-cup



An alarmist and ill-informed article which has over 450 responses mostly in favour of SA hosting the 2010 cup.

I have to agree with one concern of hers -



We are less than a year away from the 2010 Cup - the taxis are gearing up for war, we in Cape Town still have not even a whiff off anything resembling a transport plan and I'm waiting to see the much lauded new buses.

This from Capetown.gov.co.za :-



Major investment in the rail system - none at all
Restructuring of road-based public transport services into unified, integrated public transport services - none at all
Investment in long distance public transport facilities - none at all
Investment in Non-Motorised Transport facilities (NMT) - ??!
Intelligent transport systems and travel demand management - invisible or doesn't exist
Stadium precinct infrastructure and inner city distribution system - we wait with bated breath.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how we are going to get 68000 people out of the stadium and out of the city before the sun comes up.

Probably in a similar way as to how people leave the Newlands rugby stadium.

[capetownguy]

So we are faced with the ' possibility ' of a totally inadequate transport system.

In effect we have lovely stadiums and new roads - but we aren't sure whether or not we can actually get the 3 million spectators to where they need to be.

That is disturbing whichever side of the fence you are on.

Any city or country can plan for an event but nobody can be promised on the day that those plans will be operationally smooth.
So we can put enough buses on the route between the CBD and stadium and construction the IRT Stations etc. and plan and plan but the best shot we have at getting things operationally in place is to to use test events.

[Jozi101]

So I can see where this lady is coming from.

This lady has never set foot in this country my man! She's not coming from anywhere. She's ignorant and there's no excuse for that.

[capetownguy]

Probably in a similar way as to how people leave the Newlands rugby stadium.

No. They will use the IRT system with additional shuttles to park and ride sites around the CBD and around the city.

But I've been through all of this already.

[krycor]

I don't think attendance will be as much as above, well.. not international attendance. You must remember where we are in the world wrt. major soccer fans + recession. On the bright side as long as CC keeps an close eye on the travel + accommodation + entertainment industry(who hike prices just to make a quick buck) and our currency remains favourable to them people will do a lot other things besides watch soccer games, heck i won't be surprised if they miss a few games.

[grayston]

This lady has never set foot in this country my man!

I've never set foot in Diepsloot... mainly because I know what happens in there.

[Serqet]

I've never set foot in Diepsloot... mainly because I know what happens in there.

That's still in the same country.

Do you know what happens in Indonesia?

[Garyvdh]

This lady has never set foot in this country my man! She's not coming from anywhere. She's ignorant and there's no excuse for that.

um, there are a lot of reporters in the world who are asked to report on places that they have never been to. It's called "research"

[EtienneK]

No. They will use the IRT system with additional shuttles to park and ride sites around the CBD and around the city.

But I've been through all of this already.

And I still think it's a stupid idea.

[Serqet]

um, there are a lot of reporters in the world who are asked to report on places that they have never been to. It's called "research"

She also mentioned her fears of our HIV. I wonder if she bothered to research the fact that you can't contract AIDS via wind pollination?

[killadoob]

um, there are a lot of reporters in the world who are asked to report on places that they have never been to. It's called "research"

No it's called reading stories about the bad SA and never experiencing the good SA by actually coming here.

the way people talk about this country is like we cannot set foot outside our house because there are people waiting to murder and rape us, they make out like on every block there is a murder and rape.

It is far from the doom and gloom some reporters say it is but then again they have done research so i guess they know what they are talking about.

[Serqet]

And I still think it's a stupid idea.

So what is a better idea than the so-called stupid one? I'm all ears.

[Serqet]

No it's called reading stories about the bad SA and never experiencing the good SA by actually coming here.

the way people talk about this country is like we cannot set foot outside our house because there are people waiting to murder and rape us, they make out like on every block there is a murder and raped.

It far from the doom and gloom some reporters say it is but then again they have done research so i guess they know what they are talking about.

Exactly! If anything i think killadoob and i are the most realistic people on this forum. We are aware of the crime but we don't let ourselves become paralysed by fear and negativity. All one has to do is be a little more vigilant.

[Garyvdh]

She also mentioned her fears of our HIV. I wonder if she bothered to research the fact that you can't contract AIDS via wind pollination?

that's stupid. now you are just making stuff up.

[EtienneK]

So what is a better idea than the so-called stupid one? I'm all ears.

Have you ever been to a full game at Supersport Park? Lots of parking. Easy to get in and out. No problem.

[killadoob]

that's stupid. now you are just making stuff up.

You really can't get aids from pollination gary, it's da truth :D

[Jozi101]

that's stupid. now you are just making stuff up.

WTF? Did you even read that article? :confused:

[Serqet]

Belief it coz it's troooo

[Garyvdh]

where did she say in the article you can get HIV from win pollination?

[Serqet]

Have you ever been to a full game at Supersport Park? Lots of parking. Easy to get in and out. No problem.

Can't say that i have! :erm:

[killadoob]

where did she say in the article you can get HIV from win pollination?

Gary you need too try and pick up sarcasm :D

[Serqet]

where did she say in the article you can get HIV from win pollination?

So you feel her concerns of AIDS are valid? I don't get wtf she is so scared about. I haven't contracted it and i've lived here all my life. So the only logical explanation i could think of; is that she has deduced it is contracted via wind pollination.:rolleyes:;)

[Aqua_lung]

Gary you need too try and pick up sarcasm :D

or do some "research" before posting.

[killadoob]

Yup the summer winds are in, she best stay away from this country she is reporting on that she has never visited.

The pollination will get her!!!!!!!!

She prolly thinks we keep elephants and lions as pets as well :D

[Garyvdh]

I ask again.... where did she say in the article you can get HIV from wind pollination?

[Garyvdh]

So you feel her concerns of AIDS are valid? I don't get wtf she is so scared about. I haven't contracted it and i've lived here all my life. So the only logical explanation i could think of; is that she has deduced it is contracted via wind pollination.:rolleyes:;)

she only mentioned prostitutes. Having sex with an HIV positive person is one known method of getting HIV.

She said nothing about wind pollination. you made that up and you are just putting words in her mouth.

Ever heard of a "straw man" argument? That's exactly what you are doing right now.

[Aqua_lung]

Someone needs to replace their sarcasm meter...

or get this firefox extension... (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Internet-Applications-Addons/Mozilla-Extensions/Sarcasm-Blocker.shtml)

[killadoob]

www.theuk.co.uk/Sarietha/blog

she said it there gary, she knows the winds are going to be at their highest when the world cup hits and knows the AIDS will get everyone.

Geez this chick is so doff, i am telling you she does not even understand sarcasm, that is how doff she is.

[Serqet]

Ermmmmm okay *leaves this alone*

[Garyvdh]

Someone needs to replace their sarcasm meter...

why, is yours faulty?

I'll respond to sarcasm when I see it. All I see is a bunch of kids making up stuff and then laughing about it... haw, haw, haw.

If youare going to pick on what she said, then pick on what she said. Don't make up stupid things... and then pick on them as if she said them.

You only make yourself looks [more] stupid.

[Garyvdh]

www.theuk.co.uk/Sarietha/blog

she said it there gary, she knows the winds are going to be at their highest when the world cup hits and knows the AIDS will get everyone.

Geez this chick is so doff, i am telling you she does not even understand sarcasm, that is how doff she is.

link doesn't work.

Please show me in the original article where she made such a claim?

[Aqua_lung]

why, is yours faulty?

I'll respond to sarcasm when I see it. All I see is a bunch of kids making up stuff and then laughing about it... haw, haw, haw.

If youare going to pick on what she said, then pick on what she said. Don't make up stupid things... and then pick on them as if she said them.

You only make yourself looks [more] stupid.

I beg you, please install this or we'll die of hilarity.

Sarcasm Blocker (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Internet-Applications-Addons/Mozilla-Extensions/Sarcasm-Blocker.shtml)

[killadoob]

link doesn't work.

Please show me in the original article where she made such a claim?


Errm the link is working for me, maybe your internet is not lekka today.

[Garyvdh]

Errm the link is working for me, maybe your internet is not lekka today.

Gives me a time out... Did you suck that out of your thumb as well?

I'll leave you kids to your stupid games. I have better things to do.

[killadoob]

Gary it is working for me, maybe your internet is not lekka.

Here is a some of the article:

Sarietha Engelbrecht

Cape Town – A soccer journalist for the Guardian in Britain has created waves in cyberspace following her criticism of South Africa as a host nation for the Soccer World Cup.

She believes Egypt would have been a better host nation, as “if Egyptians were able to build pyramids, they could surely host a World Cup.”

She then went on too say that with the pollination problem in SA visitors are in grave danger of catching the AIDS virus.

[Garyvdh]

She then went on too say that with the pollination problem in SA visitors are in grave danger of catching the AIDS virus.

come on Killa... please. I know you are not that stupid. You took English at High School didn't you? Surely you know the difference between first person and second person?

Show me something that she said... not something that somebody else quoted her as saying.

Show me from the original article... or I just write you guys off as a bunch of childish idiots.

[grayston]

She then went on too say that with the pollination problem in SA visitors are in grave danger of catching the AIDS virus.

With one of the world's highest levels of rape and HIV infection, this is a valid concern in SA.

(And your link doesn't work for me either.)

[killadoob]

With one of the world's highest levels of rape and HIV infection, this is a valid concern in SA.

(And your link doesn't work for me either.)

Yes i too would be worried about the pollination AIDS virus problem :D

Gary we are a bunch of childish, sarcastic people best move along then :D, AIDs is only a concern if you enjoy rubberless screwing, cover up before you enter unknown holes :p

[Serqet]

I just stepped outside and i'm positive:(

[killadoob]

I just stepped outside and i'm positive:(

You went outside?

Damn you are lucky you never got raped and murdered :D

Phew close call serqet, now be a good girl and stay locked up and never leave your house.

[Serqet]

Well....the door was slightly ajar and i was eating peanuts and i dropped one and it rolled outside. I thought if i jumped out there quickly the badies wouldn't get me.

[killadoob]

Well....the door was slightly ajar and i was eating peanuts and i dropped one and it rolled outside. I thought if i jumped out there quickly the badies wouldn't get me.

Hahahaha

Ya that is how we SA's live i guess :D

/loads the sarcasm meter for certain people

[Aqua_lung]

www.theuk.co.uk/Sarietha/blog

she said it there gary, she knows the winds are going to be at their highest when the world cup hits and knows the AIDS will get everyone.

Geez this chick is so doff, i am telling you she does not even understand sarcasm, that is how doff she is.

lol killa what's even doffer is you thinking that the SA journalist is the UK journalist. :D

The Blog is by Louise Taylor not Sarietha...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jul/07/louise-taylor-south-africa-2010-world-cup


• This article was amended on Wednesday 8 July 2009. We misdescribed the circumstances in which a German journalist died during the Confederations Cup tournament in South Africa. This has been corrected.
.. and probably deleted the aids pollination bit too.

[TheHiveMind]

www.theuk.co.uk/Sarietha/blog

she said it there gary, she knows the winds are going to at their highest when the world cup hits and knows the AIDS will get everyone.

Geez this chick is so doff, i am telling you she does not even understand sarcasm, that is how doff she is.

Are you suggesting that people aren't going to have sex?
Are you suggesting that ignorant visitors who don't have a real HIV problem in their countries are going to have safe sex?
Are you suggesting that safe sex is 100% safe?

We are all aware of the high risk in our own country and we still take risks.

Aids is a much bigger issue than crime IMO. Crime doesn't follow you back to your own country to wreak exponential havoc.

[JungleBoy]

Here is a better idea, she can bring along her sex toys with which she can keep her horny self pleasured throughout the tournament. That way she won't give in to the temptation to screw them locals :D

[grayston]

Here is a better idea, she can bring along her sex toys with which she can keep her horny self pleasured throughout the tournament. That way she won't give in to the temptation to screw them locals :D

lol

misogyny=comedy!

[Serqet]

Are you suggesting that people aren't going to have sex?
Are you suggesting that ignorant visitors who don't have a real HIV problem in their countries are going to have safe sex?
Are you suggesting that safe sex is 100% safe?

We are all aware of the high risk in our own country and we still take risks.

Aids is a much bigger issue than crime IMO. Crime doesn't follow you back to your own country to wreak exponential havoc.

Are you aware that you risk contracting AIDS no matter where in the world you have sex? Are you aware that as a responsible adult you should protect yourself from this? It is rather well-known that we are the highest statistic so for god sakes use a bit of common sense. Oh no nevermind "lets just not go to SA lads..we going to get AIDS if we shag an SA girl" Do me a freaking favour.

[Garyvdh]

Are you aware that you risk contracting AIDS no matter where in the world you have sex? Are you aware that as a responsible adult you should protect yourself from this? It is rather well-known that we are the highest statistic so for god sakes use a bit of common sense. Oh no nevermind "lets just not go to SA lads..we going to get AIDS if we shag an SA girl" Do me a freaking favour.

That kind of ignorance is exactly why SA has such a high AIDS problem in the first place.

[Serqet]

Really? Expecting people to condomise is ignorant?

[Serqet]

I suppose we should just turn around and refuse to host the WC because a pommie might shag a prossie in drunken stupor without a condom and contract AIDS?

Yes you're right. Where was my head!

[killadoob]

That kind of ignorance is exactly why SA has such a high AIDS problem in the first place.

How is expecting people to wear a rubber ignorant?
Man that is funny gary.

[feo]

The comments to the article are pure awesomeness!

[TheHiveMind]

Are you aware that you risk contracting AIDS no matter where in the world you have sex? Are you aware that as a responsible adult you should protect yourself from this? It is rather well-known that we are the highest statistic so for god sakes use a bit of common sense. Oh no nevermind "lets just not go to SA lads..we going to get AIDS if we shag an SA girl" Do me a freaking favour.

I agree, but you gotta look at reality.

People are willing to take small risks. We are all aware of the risks of having an accident when we get behind the wheel, but the risks are small enough for us to take them. So in a country where aids is a small risk, you should find more people taking chances.

People aren't responsible. If they were, aids wouldn't be such a big problem.

"It is rather well-known that we are the highest statistic so for god sakes use a bit of common sense"

Sex > Common sense, alot of the time.

You don't know anyone who is infact educated and took a risk once? I promise you do.

Even sex inside a long term relationship or marriage carries risk. It is just a seemingly reduced risk.

"I suppose we should just turn around and refuse to host the WC because a pommie might shag a prossie in drunken stupor without a condom and contract AIDS?"

Ofcourse not, we just shouldn't down play it, which is what is happening in this thread.
We have a responsibility to inform those people of the real risks so that they atleast have a chance to assess that risk. That is all we have to do.

[Garyvdh]

Really? Expecting people to condomise is ignorant?

No, the attitude that AIDS is not a threat to all the tourists... and we should not worry about it... let them just get AIDS. The attitude that there is no AIDS epidemic in South Africa. Clearly the condoms are not working and more intervention is needed. The attitude that we are on the same par as all the other countries (when their AIDS infection rate is only a fraction of ours).

That is supreme ignorance... typical of the government's failed AIDS policies. The attitude that condoms alone will solve our AIDS crisis. it's stupid ignorant moronic thinking.

[Serqet]

I agree, but you gotta look at reality.

People are willing to take small risks. We are all aware of the risks of having an accident when we get behind the wheel, but the risks are small enough for us to take them. So in a country where aids is a small risk, you should find more people taking chances.

People aren't responsible. If they were, aids wouldn't be such a big problem.

"It is rather well-known that we are the highest statistic so for god sakes use a bit of common sense"

Sex > Common sense, alot of the time.

You don't know anyone who is infact educated and took a risk once? I promise you do.

Even sex inside a long term relationship or marriage carries risk. It is just a seemingly reduced risk.

"I suppose we should just turn around and refuse to host the WC because a pommie might shag a prossie in drunken stupor without a condom and contract AIDS?"

Ofcourse not, we just shouldn't down play it, which is what is happening in this thread.
We have a responsibility to inform those people of the real risks so that they atleast have a chance to assess that risk. That is all we have to do.

Fair enough and i concur with what you are saying. I don't feel the journalist in point intelligently relayed those risks instead she just opted to frighten the crap out of foreigners. And that is why i have a problem with what was said.

[Serqet]

No, the attitude that AIDS is not a threat to all the tourists... and we should not worry about it... let them just get AIDS. The attitude that there is no AIDS epidemic in South Africa. Clearly the condoms are not working and more intervention is needed. The attitude that we are on the same par as all the other countries (when their AIDS infection rate is only a fraction of ours).

That is supreme ignorance... typical of the government's failed AIDS policies. The attitude that condoms alone will solve our AIDS crisis. it's stupid ignorant moronic thinking.

I did not say that at all. So now you are putting words in my mouth just like you accused me earlier of doing. I never once said it is not a threat. Nor did i say it wasn't an epidemic. But one would expect a foreigner from a first world country to be aware of this? Surely? They know they are coming to a country where AIDS is an epidemic. Surely they would take the necessary precautions to avoid this? Now if for example Joe Soap comes to watch a bit of footy and meets a girl who is HIV positive and has sex with her and thus contracts AIDS. Who is to blame? Us South Africans? The government perhaps? I just wonder where you think the fault lies?

[feo]

Just read the article and the comments are pretty much spot on, it's most a crock of sh*t.

How on earth can you compare the pyramids to the preparedness of a country to host a major sporting event. The author was high on something when she wrote this piece.

Although it's mostly factually correct, it seems like another one of those naysayer type articles.

[killadoob]

No, the attitude that AIDS is not a threat to all the tourists... and we should not worry about it... let them just get AIDS. The attitude that there is no AIDS epidemic in South Africa. Clearly the condoms are not working and more intervention is needed. The attitude that we are on the same par as all the other countries (when their AIDS infection rate is only a fraction of ours).

That is supreme ignorance... typical of the government's failed AIDS policies. The attitude that condoms alone will solve our AIDS crisis. it's stupid ignorant moronic thinking.

It is not stupid, HTf do you know people are using condoms?

Do you think condoms don't work? sorry but condoms will help the problem if people actually used them.
Actually there is only one way to solve the problem that will be a shock to the world but it is the only cure.


Dude your so far off reality it is not even funny. Education the countries biggest problem. So is people take chances, condoms are the way to protect yourself but people are rubbering up dude.

[PeterCH]

Do you think condoms don't work? sorry but condoms will help the problem if people actually used them.

Condoms don't work very well because anything which interferes with the spontaneity of the sexual act or modifies it in some way which appears to change the sensation involved (psychology of 'skin on skin' intimacy) will not work very well across the board.

People need to wear them consistently, put them on and take them off correctly and be happy to use them. People tend not to put condoms on when they aren't readily available and they're not entirely convinced of the problem at hand, they are afraid they are a block to intimacy, they are afraid they imply they or their partner has HIV or has been dishonest, people who are intoxicated with alcohol or drugs do not usually bother putting on condoms either.

The real problem is PROMISCUITY.

[killadoob]

No the problem is people do not acknowledge how bad aids has become, we hear about 32 people world wide who have died from some flu virus and it makes headlines daily, so people take notice, but nothing is said about aids, no headlines no nothing.

People are running around kukking themselves over a flu virus while people die daily from aids, that is a problem peter. nobody gives a crap that aids(aids related) is about the biggest killer in Africa.

[Serqet]

No the problem is ignorance. Not everyone who contracts AIDS has slept with 40 people. That is where the fault lies. A lot of uneducated people think if they don't sleep around, they'll be fine. That's where the danger comes in. People are under the misapprehension that only promiscuous people contract AIDS.