An Article on Piracy

[Tpex]

I found this quite an interesting article

This is an extract


I'm referring to Piracy (shhh, no so loud), the act of stealing copyrighted material instead of shelling out hard cash for it. Recently, I started to reexamine my own thoughts on piracy and I realized that I feel like a hypocrite. Since I started working for NAG, I've become very aware of the impact piracy has on the individuals inside the distributors that pay the big monies they do to secure the rights to bring in a certain range of titles, as well as the money they spend shipping those titles into our country. Real people are impacted by local piracy, people I know and who I like, so I don't like to see them worry about poor sales of a game due to piracy.

As a result, on the forums, in the IRC channel and other places where I represent NAG I make sure to always rebut anyone who mentions piracy in a positive light, or admits to having pirated themselves. This left me feeling like a full-fledged hypocrite for a few reasons.

Firstly, when I was a young gamer, still suffering under the parental units and not having my own income as well as struggling with school, I pirated games. As a writer for the most prominent gaming magazine in the country, admitting this feels like admitting to my own children (if I had any) that I did drugs in High-School, and that they should never do drugs. It is, in truth, entirely unfair of me to lambaste the young'uns who are pirating games. Said young'uns often say they do it because they simply cannot afford the games they want - the same excuse I once used.

After some lengthily discussion on the subject, I was given what I believe to be some useful advice - that perhaps piracy isn't a black-and-white issue and that there may be much more to it. As most pirates know, when a Warez group releases a game for people to pirate they always sternly remind people, "If you like the game, please buy it". It was those exact words that eventually led me to where I am now - an adult, buying as many games as I can afford (which compared to a young'un, is quite a lot). People like stuff, but more importantly, people like to own stuff. DVD sales are, I believe, a good indicator of this.

What I've come to realize, is that piracy is possibly the single most important word-of-mouth element in advertising games and growing the gaming market. I might be lynched by several factions for even suggesting it: but I believe piracy is needed if gaming is to survive.

The problem is, I am essentially trying to support the idea of responsible theft - something that is near-impossible to explain to the people who stand to lose money from piracy. Based on my own experience, piracy is the number one reason that South Africa even has a gaming industry right now. The PlayStation 2, I believe wholeheartedly, owes its local success entirely due to the flea-markets selling pirate PS2 games and the mod-chips that run them.

It requires you to believe in people, but I've come to realize that you get several types of pirates, some more useful to the industry than others - but the trick is the majority of pirates are still good people who, once they are financially more secure, would prefer to own stuff rather than dick around with pirating and cracking and hassling with updates... People who, after having gotten faith in certain game developers that they'll deliver on the goods thanks to being able to check out games via piracy since games are not cheap and demos are often carefully constructed advertisements or lies, will buy their own games.

That specific majority of pirates are important, but it doesn't condone selling pirate copies of games to make money - it may be a bit hippy, but don't copy that floppy if you're going to sell it - copy that floppy to see if it's something you want to support with your money. I believe in you.
http://herebespacedinosaurs.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html

[The_Librarian]

That specific majority of pirates are important, but it doesn't condone selling pirate copies of games to make money - it may be a bit hippy, but don't copy that floppy if you're going to sell it - copy that floppy to see if it's something you want to support with your money. I believe in you


A weak excuse - as you can download demos of games to try it out - but... on the other hand, most of these demos doesn't do the full game any justice.

Kind of a catch-22 situation...

[MadMailMan]

What aargh you on about? What's this piracy stuff me matee?

[rurapente]

well it worked for me, im gonna buy Fallout3 the full pack cause my "Telkom Edition" is so broken i cant play any further :)

[InnerException]

I can vouch for the above mentioned in the article. I have pirated for most of my life, but now that I have an income I am starting to buy more and more games (especially the games that I loved the most back in the day, like the Legacy of Kain series and Diablo 2). I still pirate these days, but I am buying the stuff I know will be great (such as my limited edition tin cover DoW2 :)), and stuff I pirated, played, and love (Dragon Age is on my shortlist to purchase ASAP).

[Morgoth]

lol are people still bridging playstations with a solder wire and charging R1000 for it?:D

[psichron]

I'm referring to Piracy (shhh, no so loud), the act of stealing copyrighted material instead of shelling out hard cash for it.

Stealing copyright material would involve breaking into the place copyright material is stored (like a book or CD store) and physically taking something. Piracy refers to unlawfully copying copyright material. Major difference.

Remember that in ZA we live in a third world country. First we get shafted by our lower general income level than developed countries. Second we get shafted by the exchange rate. Third we get shafted by heavy import taxes. And finally we get shafted by greedy distributors (think core for Apple products...).

A popular argument against piracy is that it is not fair to copy something without paying for it. If it's an issue of fairness, realise that we are always exploited unfairly in this country, so why should we play fair? Piracy is wrong, but an upside of piracy is that it provides content to people in third world countries who couldn't really afford the content in the first place. And don't say "Well, if you can't afford it, just don't download it." Should people who can't afford food just not eat?

[Crowley]

Stealing copyright material would involve breaking into the place copyright material is stored (like a book or CD store) and physically taking something. Piracy refers to unlawfully copying copyright material. Major difference.

Remember that in ZA we live in a third world country. First we get shafted by our lower general income level than developed countries. Second we get shafted by the exchange rate. Third we get shafted by heavy import taxes. And finally we get shafted by greedy distributors (think core for Apple products...).

A popular argument against piracy is that it is not fair to copy something without paying for it. If it's an issue of fairness, realise that we are always exploited unfairly in this country, so why should we play fair? Piracy is wrong, but an upside of piracy is that it provides content to people in third world countries who couldn't really afford the content in the first place. And don't say "Well, if you can't afford it, just don't download it." Should people who can't afford food just not eat?
Damn, they should just copy the food then everything is fine, isn't it?

[Pr⊕phet]

A weak excuse - as you can download demos of games to try it out - but... on the other hand, most of these demos doesn't do the full game any justice.

Kind of a catch-22 situation...

it is like music pirates don't buy cds, right ? ;)

[concentricpuddle]

Damn, they should just copy the food then everything is fine, isn't it?

Yep. :D

[psichron]

Damn, they should just copy the food then everything is fine, isn't it?

If we could pirate food then that would solve several major food crisises on earth... Of course the farmers and supermarkets will be pissed off so they will start lobying government to stop unlawful copying of food. napsterfoods.com will get sued and shut down but then thefoodbay.com will become a popular p2p food sharing network and nobody will go hungry again.

[RazedInBlack]

I prefer buying original games.

I don't buy music though!

What irks me is those damn Somalians pirates!

[STS]

people being strict about piracy has begun to make games unbearable. for most games you need a completely different cd-key to play multiplayer - that is so ****ed up. i mean if you buy it, and you want to lan it with your family you either have to scourge the internet for another cd-key(which i feel is one step pushing people to pirate games) or buy another copy.

[PallBearer]

Based on my own experience, piracy is the number one reason that South Africa even has a gaming industry right now. The PlayStation 2, I believe wholeheartedly, owes its local success entirely due to the flea-markets selling pirate PS2 games and the mod-chips that run them.[/SIZE]

And how do you figure that one out??????

How are the gaming companies making thier money if every scumbag is buying copied games from a flea market to play on thier modded PS? How is the gaming industry gaining from that? the only people gaining from that is the flea marketing pirates.

it should be legal to shoot pirates @ street corners and flea markets :wtf:

My job is directly affected by software pirates, and they are no different than those b@stards in Somalia.....

[InnerException]

people being strict about piracy has begun to make games unbearable. for most games you need a completely different cd-key to play multiplayer - that is so ****ed up. i mean if you buy it, and you want to lan it with your family you either have to scourge the internet for another cd-key(which i feel is one step pushing people to pirate games) or buy another copy.

Remember the days where only 1 computer out of 4 needed the CD for the game for multiplayer (eg. Krush, Kill & Destroy)? Or you could install a stripped down multiplayer client for LAN needing no serial key, as long as the host has full installation (eg. Starcraft 1)?

I mean, we would have a lot of fun playing DoW2 multiplayer if we could do something like that (currently only me and my one friend have legit copies of the game). It would even reduce piracy at LANs slightly (not by a lot, but will have a noticeable impact).

[STS]

And how do you figure that one out??????

How are the gaming companies making their money if every scumbag is buying copied games from a flea market to play on their modded PS? How is the gaming industry gaining from that? the only people gaining from that is the flea marketing pirates.

it should be legal to shoot pirates @ street corners and flea markets :wtf:

My job is directly affected by software pirates, and they are no different than those b@stards in Somalia.....

what he was trying to say is that you can't present something new to people and expect them to flock to buy it, but if you make it cheap enough there will be a market for it. most games and software ARE over-priced, and people wouldn't even BE in that market if they hadn't been introduced to it by somebody else or gone into it themselves.

i also believe if you make something GOOD, people WILL buy it, within reason. i also think it's unreasonable for people to expect you to buy something that you haven't tried, and if you pirate a game, finish it in 3 hours and there is nothing else to it and they're charging R300 for it, then i'll have to be on the side of the consumer.

[RazedInBlack]

what he was trying to say is that you can't present something new to people and expect them to flock to buy it, but if you make it cheap enough there will be a market for it. most games and software ARE over-priced, and people wouldn't even BE in that market if they hadn't been introduced to it by somebody else or gone into it themselves.

i also believe if you make something GOOD, people WILL buy it, within reason. i also think it's unreasonable for people to expect you to buy something that you haven't tried, and if you pirate a game, finish it in 3 hours and there is nothing else to it and they're charging R300 for it, then i'll have to be on the side of the consumer.

Well said!

COD: MW2 R599 - Finished in two days. That makes me want to pirate! :mad:

[STS]

Remember the days where only 1 computer out of 4 needed the CD for the game for multiplayer (eg. Krush, Kill & Destroy)? Or you could install a stripped down multiplayer client for LAN needing no serial key, as long as the host has full installation (eg. Starcraft 1)?

I mean, we would have a lot of fun playing DoW2 multiplayer if we could do something like that (currently only me and my one friend have legit copies of the game). It would even reduce piracy at LANs slightly (not by a lot, but will have a noticeable impact).

i actually want to get that game(KKnD), but i can't find it anywhere, so i'll have to resort to pirating it eventually :( i wanted an old game called Constructor, which is going for R150 overseas, so i ordered it. the sound doesn't work, the LAN doesn't work, and you have to use Dosbox for it anyway, which has left me very bitter about buying many games now, especially since i could have downloaded it and struggled with all these problems for free.

my brothers also have a lot of legit games like DoW2 and Team Fortress2 that you can't LAN anyway, and as far as i know DoW2 doesn't include our country on the list of "Where are you from?" option, which my brother also informed me is illegal to do, even with a legitimate copy :(

so until companies realise we're serious about gaming here, i don't feel any sympathy if they lose sales. my business alone spends enough money on software to stay legal and just be able to work, and that already starts costing us in the thousands, the only difference is that we know it works and we NEED it.

[STS]

Well said!

COD: MW2 R599 - Finished in two days. That makes me want to pirate! :mad:

and you can't even LAN it :( i wanted to buy it for my brothers for christmas until i found that out, so i resorted to buying a Xbox game instead, for R700 too. is the reason Xbox games are so expensive is because you can't pirate them? i've never really looked into it, i just notice a lot of xbox games prices drop to R400 - R300 when they don't sell for a long time.

[phoneJunky]

I already bought all the games I pirated and more

[Sting]

And when you buy the game, install it and want to start playing, it pops up a message that updates are available....try that on a 384 ADSL line or worse still, via dial-up!!! 5 days later you still cannot play the game.

Why release a bug-ridden game????? And make us pay full price + some very expensive downloads!

If I really want to play a game, eg CoD-MW2, I buy it. My daughter has the full Sims 1,2,3 sets and my son the NFS set. That combined with the PS2 collection pushes up my insurance premiums!!!!

But we are being horribly ripped off here in sunny SA.

/and don't start on music - then you'll really p*ss me off!

[RazedInBlack]

/and don't start on music - then you'll really p*ss me off!

Dude! Don't get me started on Blu Ray!

A friend of mine ordered The Matrix Trilogy off Amazon.uk a few weeks back for +/- R280! Thats 3 Blu Ray movies!

If he were to buy it at Musica or Look & Listen he would probably have paid close to R1000!

Now If I had a Blu Ray writer and discs . . . . ;)

[Chaos247]

:twisted:This is why i have no issues with piracy.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10295833

Thats 4 Movies. Exchange rate of 7.5= R69.90:wtf:

VS

http://www.kalahari.net/dvd/The-Matrix-Matrix-Reloaded-Matrix-Revolutions/4/34862619.aspx
R202.95 because they have to import from the UK. :erm:

[supersunbird]

Stealing copyright material would involve breaking into the place copyright material is stored (like a book or CD store) and physically taking something. Piracy refers to unlawfully copying copyright material. Major difference.

Remember that in ZA we live in a third world country. First we get shafted by our lower general income level than developed countries. Second we get shafted by the exchange rate. Third we get shafted by heavy import taxes. And finally we get shafted by greedy distributors (think core for Apple products...).

A popular argument against piracy is that it is not fair to copy something without paying for it. If it's an issue of fairness, realise that we are always exploited unfairly in this country, so why should we play fair? Piracy is wrong, but an upside of piracy is that it provides content to people in third world countries who couldn't really afford the content in the first place. And don't say "Well, if you can't afford it, just don't download it." Should people who can't afford food just not eat?

Even you're wrong, piracy is the unauthorised buying and selling of copyrighted material, while me copying your game disks for my own private use and paying you nothing for it is mere copyright infringement.

[InnerException]

my brothers also have a lot of legit games like DoW2 and Team Fortress2 that you can't LAN anyway, and as far as i know DoW2 doesn't include our country on the list of "Where are you from?" option, which my brother also informed me is illegal to do, even with a legitimate copy :(


Actually, DoW2 you can LAN for normal skirmishes, but not for the Last Stand game mode I so badly want to try out. Also, while I cannot remember much about the region selection, nothing stops you from entering UK as your address (almost all our games get imported from the UK anyway).

[wrathex]

I've been gaming since DOS, bought every game.

My piracy/copyright infringement issue is with music, having listened to rock ,metal, pop, jazz, classical & rap to tediousness, I've decided to explore electronic music.

So here I am, all interested in psy trance and everywhere I looked to purchase as a South African, I walk into a wall.

So, do I walk away from electronic music because I can't buy it or do I FTP like everyone else - that is my dilemma. :whistle:

Places like Look & Listen, Musica and even our local bookstores stock what I call the Top 10 commercial (which are products that do not satisfy the discerning viewer, listener or reader)

It's difficult being a progressive person in a third world situation with a meagre choice of products.

We need better financial solutions for ordinary people who don't have creditcards to fascilitate online purchasing.
__________________
Piracy Postcard - The general attitude (http://www.heksie.com/photos/piracy.jpg)

[psichron]

Even you're wrong, piracy is the unauthorised buying and selling of copyrighted material, while me copying your game disks for my own private use and paying you nothing for it is mere copyright infringement.

Good point. I have no problem copying something for free that costs 2x, 3x or 4x more here than in the us or europe but I have a huge problem with people selling something that they dont have the rights to.
I try to buy all games and applications i use (online purchases) and all music as long as i can stay away from MAFIAA distributors. Movies i rent or watch on the big screen. Tv series is a no-brainer, can't get it anywhere but online.

[psichron]

We need better financial solutions for ordinary people who don't have creditcards to fascilitate online purchasing.
__________________


We have that, it's called a cheque card and you can even get it free if you are a student under 25 with no income.

[STS]

my brothers also have a lot of legit games like DoW2 and Team Fortress2 that you can't LAN anyway, and as far as i know DoW2 doesn't include our country on the list of "Where are you from?" option, which my brother also informed me is illegal to do, even with a legitimate copy :(


Actually, DoW2 you can LAN for normal skirmishes, but not for the Last Stand game mode I so badly want to try out. Also, while I cannot remember much about the region selection, nothing stops you from entering UK as your address (almost all our games get imported from the UK anyway).[/QUOTE]

really? i thought it used steam too, which made it hard to download the content twice. i still had to use steam to install it, which took a while night on my work's adsl connection :(

[Crowley]

Even you're wrong, piracy is the unauthorised buying and selling of copyrighted material, while me copying your game disks for my own private use and paying you nothing for it is mere copyright infringement.
You say potato, I say potato. You say copyright infringement, I say you're a thief.

Either way, you are taking something for free that you had no hand in creating and you are taking money away from the people who did all the work.


Good point. I have no problem copying something for free that costs 2x, 3x or 4x more here than in the us or europe but I have a huge problem with people selling something that they dont have the rights to.
I try to buy all games and applications i use (online purchases) and all music as long as i can stay away from MAFIAA distributors. Movies i rent or watch on the big screen. Tv series is a no-brainer, can't get it anywhere but online.
So you'd want the importers to carry all the import duty costs, transport costs etc just so that we can buy the goods at exactly the correct exchange rate. While I do agree that software, games and music is horribly overpriced in SA it still does not give me the right to decide what other companies should be charging for the goods and stealing from them if it doesn't fit in with what I think.

[wrathex]

We have that, it's called a cheque card and you can even get it free if you are a student under 25 with no income.

Thanks, I'll look into it, I'm with Standard Bank and have an ordinary savings account with a debitcard, which I use for local purchasing.

I also use the 'beneficiary' option for online payments, but many international online stores do not allow for that option.

[psichron]

Check out standardbank's student achiever account.
To the previous guy: you say potato, maybe what you say doesn't matter that much. There is NO REASON we should pay more for digital content in za than overseas.

Edit: Here's the reason I say this. Digital content is trivial to copy and free to reproduce. The legal concept put in place to protect against rampant copying of content is called copyright. Copyright shifts ownership away from the actual media that content is delivered on and instead links ownership with an agreement or "license". When you buy a CD/game/application, you buy a "license" that gives you permission to use the content you purchased.

Now, since the cost of digital content is linked to a license and not the physical media, and since there are no costs involved with distributing either the content or the licenses for the content, there is no reason that content should have different costs in different geographic locations.

Do NOT put the blame for paying several times more for content in ZA on import taxes, sure they raise the prices, but not by more than 100% as is very often the case.

[Tpex]

A weak excuse - as you can download demos of games to try it out - but... on the other hand, most of these demos doesn't do the full game any justice.

Kind of a catch-22 situation...

That kind of what he said, I have played many demos, got the full game and been very disappointed, as opposed to playing a game (copied) enjoying, and buying the original


Stealing copyright material would involve breaking into the place copyright material is stored (like a book or CD store) and physically taking something. Piracy refers to unlawfully copying copyright material. Major difference.

Look at the point of view of the auther, he was like one of those trolls with gave you hell if you said something slightly illegal (check the link)


And how do you figure that one out??????

How are the gaming companies making thier money if every scumbag is buying copied games from a flea market to play on thier modded PS? How is the gaming industry gaining from that? the only people gaining from that is the flea marketing pirates.

it should be legal to shoot pirates @ street corners and flea markets :wtf:

My job is directly affected by software pirates, and they are no different than those b@stards in Somalia.....
One of my biggest gripes about console is you shell out all that cash for one, then every game R500+ (I still don't own a console) now if you buy a console (you can't copy it) and copy the games, then sony or M$ or Nintendo got the cash, that what I think he is saying anyway

[raven69]

i am 100% with the article.. im a young'un ma self and yes i dnt have an income to be buying games all the time BUT if i really like the game i save until i can afford it, theres truely nothn that feels better then seeing a real copy of the game stacked in your dvd rack,theres just that good feeling of owning the orignal thing u know!!

[Palimino]

And how do you figure that one out??????

How are the gaming companies making thier money if every scumbag is buying copied games from a flea market to play on thier modded PS? How is the gaming industry gaining from that? the only people gaining from that is the flea marketing pirates.

it should be legal to shoot pirates @ street corners and flea markets :wtf:

My job is directly affected by software pirates, and they are no different than those b@stards in Somalia.....

Boo phuking hoo

[Palimino]

Stealing copyright material would involve breaking into the place copyright material is stored (like a book or CD store) and physically taking something. Piracy refers to unlawfully copying copyright material. Major difference.

Remember that in ZA we live in a third world country. First we get shafted by our lower general income level than developed countries. Second we get shafted by the exchange rate. Third we get shafted by heavy import taxes. And finally we get shafted by greedy distributors (think core for Apple products...).

A popular argument against piracy is that it is not fair to copy something without paying for it. If it's an issue of fairness, realise that we are always exploited unfairly in this country, so why should we play fair? Piracy is wrong, but an upside of piracy is that it provides content to people in third world countries who couldn't really afford the content in the first place. And don't say "Well, if you can't afford it, just don't download it." Should people who can't afford food just not eat?

I maintain that a new business paradigm is being born. Edited from a previous post. .

The capitalist way is to price things unfairly. However, the existing business dinosaurs cannot enforce the money-making rules other than on a (very) local level. Without enforcement, who’s going to follow the ‘rules’? There is no moral imperative here (even if you consider usual business practise moral).

For example: You have R500.00 in your pocket (you haven’t been mugged yet). You have the choice of buying some ‘pirated’ software for R300.00 or the original for R1800.00. The products are identical. Or, you have the choice of buying a ‘rip-off’ Gucci handbag (of better quality than the original) for R1000.00 or the original for R18000.00 (remember, you can always sell your car to enrich further the already rich). You can be a glazed-eye zombie, repeating the mantra (in a monotone), “Paying rip-off prices is good, making Madonna, Microsoft and Gucci more wealthy is good”. Unenforceable and immoral.

However, rewarding innovation and effort is essential. Law and property rights are important, but unworkable as they stand, in the information economy. There is little room for creativity in piracy. You don’t need to be a creative pirate to rip-off products. Even the process of ripping-off will have been refined by the Asian Tigers. Maybe there is room for creativity to circumvent the establishment’s pathetic attempts to encrypt their product or enforce their copyright laws (bad PR incidentally). Within weeks or, at most, a few months the pirates will have circumvented any ‘protection’ efforts. There is probably more raw talent among the pirates than among status quo loyalists.

I do not claim some form of ‘oracular understanding’. At best, I would claim the status of ‘informed panic’. I do not claim an inalienable right to pirate DVDs, CDs or software – I am just pointing-out the stupidity and arrogance of the powers that make criminals of those who do – as if **they** had some inalienable right. Copyright laws - outmoded and redundant. Thus, I am in favour of a new business paradigm to the extent that I regard evolution as a ‘good thing’. I’m neutral to nervous about changes to the status quo (which I have known all my life). I am simply pointing to the writing on the wall – trying to halt this is like trying to halt a tsunami. The only thing, which can halt or reverse these changes, is a global holocaust, which will knock humanity back to an earlier economic level (hunter/gatherer, agricultural, industrial or service). A rather extreme form of ‘resistance to change’.

A well-known site at the centre of exploring alternatives to the existing copyright issues and business paradigms is Napster (a music site). There are a myriad of lesser-known sites. Pirate Bay is the latest.

America has a **huge** investment in the status quo and American citizens will not easily move out of their comfort zones. The fight will get vicious. Oddly enough, America is also the most advanced ‘information economy’ (not nearly as big as the status quo, however). Internal strife between the old & the new, will complicate things.

The rest of the world shall watch agog as the squabbling intensifies.

[fastesthamster]

So you'd want the importers to carry all the import duty costs, transport costs etc just so that we can buy the goods at exactly the correct exchange rate. While I do agree that software, games and music is horribly overpriced in SA it still does not give me the right to decide what other companies should be charging for the goods and stealing from them if it doesn't fit in with what I think.
In the case of digital media, there shouldn't be any import duty costs, transport costs etc.

If there had to be these additional costs, then viewing an American website should cost more than a South African one, surely?

[Chaos247]

In the case of digital media, there shouldn't be any import duty costs, transport costs etc.

If there had to be these additional costs, then viewing an American website should cost more than a South African one, surely?

Exactly

[czc]

In the case of digital media, there shouldn't be any import duty costs, transport costs etc.

If there had to be these additional costs, then viewing an American website should cost more than a South African one, surely?

It does. Routesentry. ;)

I just bought alot of games (30+) on steam for less than R500.

[psichron]

Oh yea, Steam is currently having a sale. Bought a couple of games on there last week. Payed FAR less than I would've payed here.

Edit: Just bought the Orange box (Half-life 2, Team-fortress 2, portal) For R120.

[noxibox]

I say you're a thief.
I say you've swallowed the propaganda hook, line and sinker.


Either way, you are taking something for free that you had no hand in creating and you are taking money away from the people who did all the work.
I do it all the time. Don't pay for my library books. I borrow books from friends. I buy used books. There's really no end to the money I am stealing.


So you'd want the importers to carry all the import duty costs, transport costs etc just so that we can buy the goods at exactly the correct exchange rate.
There's a good reason why the vast majority of my DVDs are region 1 and a high percentage of the region 2 ones come from the UK, and why all but one of my PS2 games are new copies imported from either the US or UK, or bought used from the UK. Because even with shipping, VAT and duties I still saved a lot of money over what gets charged here. A decade ago Ster Kinekor threatened DVD importing clubs with legal action, although there was nothing they could do about individual importing much as they would have loved to shut it down. DVDs eventually came down to the point where sometimes it was actually not worth importing myself. It took years though. Blu-ray has now started the gouging all over again. R250+ for a disc I can import for R150?

As far as I'm concerned the producers overseas and local importers either figure out something that prices things reasonably here or they suck it up and stop whining about people copying.


While I do agree that software, games and music is horribly overpriced in SA it still does not give me the right to decide what other companies should be charging for the goods
It's exactly this lame attitude that keeps South Africans being overcharged.


and stealing from them if it doesn't fit in with what I think.
Well really the games aren't expensive enough to make the hassle of stealing worthwhile. All those alarm systems and guys in cars with flashing lights waving guns about.

[Crowley]

Aar me mateys. Stick it to the man. Lets do some more crime.
It seems pirating lowers your IQ as well.

[Chaos247]

It seems pirating lowers your IQ as well.

Someone sold him a pirated grammar processor.:wtf:

[psichron]

It seems pirating lowers your IQ as well.

When you have no chance of winning an argument, you attack the person arguing, amirite? Face it, noxibox addressed each of your points perfectly.

[f4ntom]

Crowley that post looked pathetic after noxibox's one. :D?

[Tpex]

i am 100% with the article.. im a young'un ma self and yes i dnt have an income to be buying games all the time BUT if i really like the game i save until i can afford it, theres truely nothn that feels better then seeing a real copy of the game stacked in your dvd rack,theres just that good feeling of owning the orignal thing u know!!
Damn right!

very well said Palimino and noxibox

[Crowley]

When you have no chance of winning an argument, you attack the person arguing, amirite? Face it, noxibox addressed each of your points perfectly.
Agreed. Was a very good argument and a bad post from me. Got a bit bored there.


I say you've swallowed the propaganda hook, line and sinker.
Have you ever lost your job because the software house you work for lost too much money due to their software being stolen? You may feel a bit different after that happens.

I do it all the time. Don't pay for my library books. I borrow books from friends. I buy used books. There's really no end to the money I am stealing.
Library's are paid for by your taxes so in theory you are paying for those books. Do you make copies of all the books or do you read them and give them back?

There's a good reason why the vast majority of my DVDs are region 1 and a high percentage of the region 2 ones come from the UK, and why all but one of my PS2 games are new copies imported from either the US or UK, or bought used from the UK. Because even with shipping, VAT and duties I still saved a lot of money over what gets charged here. A decade ago Ster Kinekor threatened DVD importing clubs with legal action, although there was nothing they could do about individual importing much as they would have loved to shut it down. DVDs eventually came down to the point where sometimes it was actually not worth importing myself. It took years though. Blu-ray has now started the gouging all over again. R250+ for a disc I can import for R150?

As far as I'm concerned the producers overseas and local importers either figure out something that prices things reasonably here or they suck it up and stop whining about people copying.


It's exactly this lame attitude that keeps South Africans being overcharged.


Well really the games aren't expensive enough to make the hassle of stealing worthwhile. All those alarm systems and guys in cars with flashing lights waving guns about.
I did agree a few posts back that South Africans pay too much for their entertainment, movies, music etc. Importing by yourself is a good idea since the artists still get their cut and that is what my argument is all about. Downloading from the internet only gives telkom a cut.

[Tpex]

Crowly where did you work that you lost your job from piracy?

[a-person]

Why should I pay full price for Xbox games when there is not a sliver of Xbox live support in SA?

[RazedInBlack]

Are we still on the piracy issue?

One thing is for: Piracy is not gonna go away. A person half-convinced is not convinced at all!

Its a vicious endless cycle and maybe talking about it will help, but on a very minute scale.