Connecting 2 wireless networks wirelessly

[Overmind]

I need help connecting 2 wireless networks wirelessly across town. Assuming that we have line of sight, how do I connect to WLans as in the jpg below?

http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/renym/networksetup.jpg

[Ryder_JHB]

I am a total noob when it comes to things like this but am currently in the process of trying to get a 7.3km link going.

LOS or Line of Site is going to be a major factor here and you would need powerful directional antenna's.

Where are you based? and how is the layout of the two properties. Are you high up or low down... clear view of the general direction of the other network?

What equipment is present at both ends? or r u still gathering?

[Crash]

For Starters you are going to need two more WRT54G Routers, as they can't function as an Access Point and in Client Mode at the same time.

Each side will have a router set as an AP to connect the Wireless Clients and the another Router configured in Client mode acting as the wireless bridge across town.

If you need help configuring the routers I can help you. BTW, the standard Linksys Firmware doesn't do what you want it to do. You need the Sveasoft or OpenWRT firmware. I recommend Sveasoft though.

Be warned though, there is a bug in specific versions of the Linksys WRT54G hardware. The ethernet driver has a bug. You push the switch past 512Kbytes /sec and the router crashes.

Feel free to ask any questions you like, or pm me.

[Overmind]

I already have all the equipment in the jpg. So I need 2 more routers. Do I need to buy routers or can it be normal access points? Am I correct when I say this setup is Wireless Distribution System (WDS)?

[Ryder_JHB]

I stand to be corrected but from what I can see, all you will need is 2 x directional antenna's connected to the 'primary' connector on the back of each linksys router.

[Overmind]

Ryder, that's what I also thought. Will cut costs alot.

[Crash]

You could get two Vanila AP's, can't remember the model :p
Basically the Wireless Routers (WRT54G) would work as the Wireless bridge across town and the Normal Vanilla AP you connect your Wireless Clients i.e the PC's and Laptops.

So yes you can get normal AP's. Yes this would be a WDS system.
And you need two good Directional Antennae's. The normal Omni's that they come with won't work.

[Overmind]

So do I need to connect the AP and router at each house with cable or will it work wirelessly?

For the directional antennas: Will this work? http://www.jump.co.za/Products/Product.asp?ProductCode=PR004398

[dorris]

For Starters you are going to need two more WRT54G Routers, as they can't function as an Access Point and in Client Mode at the same time.
Not quite
Firstly, in the client/AP setup suggested, only one extra AP is needed, the client side will need nother AP, but the AP end of the connection can still serve many clients(laptops etc)

the cheapest solution though is WDS, its just a matter of whether or not the indoor equipment will get spillover signal from the outdoor directional antennas.

remember, when swapping out the standard antennas for longrange, its advisable to disable the other antenna, the 2 in combo is only good for diversity, ie where both cover the same area, if both are left enabled, it will result in packetloss

basic concept : WDS allows a AP to speak to another AP while serving wireless clients.
it will not give an optimal connection, it halves the throughput between the 2 AP's, remote clients should in theory still have max speed.

choose your AP's wisely, as some don't have functionality fo WDS, in this case, 2 WRT's can do ANYTHING the radio permits them to, if you have the right knowhow, and don't mind getting your hands a little dirty in commandline.

firmwares that are capable, are openWRT, DD-WRT, and sveasoft, personally, I'll stay away from the latter 2, and go openwrt, I find them both bloated and buggy, but then again, I don't mind a shell and vi.

Have you been to Jawug.za.net yet, very valuable source, and good to put your network to greater use, theres guys there that have been doing this for years, and can also be invaluable in such a setup, I know, coz I've just been thru it/going thru it now.

If anyones interested PM me, just got a network off the ground in Lonehill, that will link to sunninghill by the end of the month!

[Overmind]

So Dorris, if I want 100% of the bandwidth between the two sites I still need 2 extra APs?

[Crash]

I should report this as a personal attack but hey don't care.

In my opinion spend the extra R700 on two Vanilla AP's (They are about R350 each).

I have tried the OpenWRT firmware and WDS. It gave me some serious issues.
It would send 8 packets, then die for 20 and then send 8 packets and die for 30.
Even The guys on bloody Jawug told me to use Sveasoft instead of OpenWRT.

I have found that my way works.
Or chat to the Jawug guys who will be more than happy to help.

I have learned the hard way from personal experience.
Don't mix the Wireless Bridge (WDS) with your Wireless Clients.

Those Two Antennaes look fine. Not a bad price either.

[bboy]

i have a 1km, wds with 2 x wrt's running at the moment, works well, however cannot connect a client to the network , only via lan cable!
using alchemy software!

[Crash]

Unfortunately Overmind when you use WDS, your bandwidth halfs for every hop on your network. So for every AP you "relay" through, you half your bandwidth.

Google for say WDS and bandwidth, it will explain why.

So from your Router to the Router across town you will only get half the effective bandwidth. I.E if you set the speed to say 18 mbps, you will only get 9 mbps, assuming perfect conditions. Thats how I understood it.

[Karnaugh]

Yea you should use two more devices rather - but you can also actualy buy cheaper ethernet-wireless bridge devices (D-Link make them) since you will not be using any of the routers real capability (quite a waste). Just jack them into your wrt's and bobs your uncle...

[Ryder_JHB]

Yea you should use two more devices rather - but you can also actualy buy cheaper ethernet-wireless bridge devices (D-Link make them) since you will not be using any of the routers real capability (quite a waste). Just jack them into your wrt's and bobs your uncle...

Thos cheap Dlink ethernet-wireless bridge devices you mention? What's a ball-park figure on the cost and where from? What's the model no?

Thanks

[Crash]

Yeah, I agree with Karnaugh. Not sure what D-Link stuff you could use. No too clued up on D-Link. I'll have a look around.

[Karnaugh]

DLink DWL-G810

[th0rn]

Iv just finished setting up the bridging settings on my wrt54g and as far as i can see you will only need one more AP using your current setup, although 2 will be faster and might also be needed if one uses directional antennas.

Im not sure how you would want you IP. My setup has different subnets on both sides.
At the moment 192.168.0.0/24 and 192.168.1.0/24. The built in router allows communication between them.

I run my setup with one wrt54g as a AP (this can be reused by other wireless and cabled clients) and one as a client (this can only be used by cables clients thus another access point is needed).

Im using the sveasoft Alchemy-V1.0.

[Elf1nDrak3]

Over and Crash

Trying out the DWL-G810 might give you a hastle over 5km.
Rather look at the DWL-2100AP from D-Link. I assisted in setting up various wifi links from 10 km up to 38 km in distance. As you know the Access Point will not be enough.
you'll need 2 x 21 dBi Directional antennas to do the job.

Three basic principles that are not negotiable:
1) Line of site. (For 5 km more or less line of site)
2) No High voltage Power cables can cross. (I talking about that highway of
spiderweb cables along the N1)
3) Interference will always occur. (Play with channels to get the best
frequency)

[Crash]

I Agree There

I've found the Channels to be very important. Means the difference between it working and not.

[daffy]

Use Directional Antennas. Omni's are Evil.

Powerlines wont be a problem, so dont stress.

Remember that most antennas are "tuned" for channel 6, because its the middle of the range. This could be a good thing, or a bad thing.
good) great signal
bad) everyone else knows this, so lots of noise.

Try scanning from both sides of the link to see what other equipment is around. If you can, pick a channel thats isn't being used (if possible, it should be more than 1 channel away from everything else on both sides)

If your AP's support Channel 13 and 14.. Try them first!
Much of the older equipment cant get to those frequencies, so you'll get less interference if you use them.

After changing the channel, check your signal strength. Run a throughput test and make notes of the latencies. If you have to, do this for all the Channels your equipment can support.

[captainwifi]

See the tutorial on Dual Radios at
http://www.qorvus.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=65