MTN 3G released! See Rates.

[johandutoit2000]

MTN’s 3G services are now available for MTNers to test, provided you have a 3G handset. For customers, 3G services will be available and billed for from 22nd June onwards. MTN will officially launch 3G to the public on 26 June.



3G Handsets
The four handsets supported for the launch are the Nokia 6680, Sony Ericsson Z800, Samsung SGH-Z130 and Motorola V975. The Novatel U630 PC Data Card will also be available soon.
The Nokia 6680 is recommended for data users because it supports 3G and EDGE and therefore offers broadband speeds over a higher coverage area.
The Nokia 6630 support all 3G features but requires an additional camera accessory when using Videocall. The handset without the accessory does not have a camera in front to allow the other caller to see you!


Services offered
Voice calls (as normal).
Data connections. Like GPRS, only about 9x faster (maximum 384 kbps download). Seamlessly changes between 3G, EDGE and GPRS.
Videocalls.
These are currently on-net (MTN to MTN) only.
To activate videocalls, you need to have HSCSD loaded on your cellphone profile. #Help Staff Billing can load this for you.
Welcome to Y’ello 3G Video can be viewed on MTNLoaded.
Jamcams: Live video of selected traffic spots can be viewed on MTNLoaded.
Video clips can also be viewed from MTNLoaded. The costs of these are advertised on the site. The movie trailers are free.


Coverage Information
3G is offered in the following CBDs: Johannesburg, Midrand, Pretoria, Cape Town, Durban, Port Elizabeth, and Bloemfontein.
Coverage maps will be posted on the internet shortly. Contact 1555 for details.


USIM
All 3G services can be accessed by MTN staff and subscribers using their existing 2G SIMs.
The benefit of a USIM to staff are that it has 128 kilobytes of storage and it supports international roaming.
A staff upgrade procedure to migrate from your SIM to a USIM will be circulated shortly. Please do not attempt to upgrade staff SIMs before this procedure is circulated later in the week. You can use all 3G services with your existing SIM until 27 June.


Video mailbox
This operates like a voice mailbox but accepts incoming videocall messages.
You must have a 3G handset before you can apply for a mailbox and you must have HSCSD loaded on your profile.
E-mail Takalani Thaba if you have a 3G handset already and want to be provisioned. Allow a 24 – 48 hour turnaround. An SMS will be sent to you when the video mailbox is provisioned. This manual provisioning process will be available until the end of Thursday 23 June.


Feedback
Please reply to this e-mail with any information on 3G services or if you want to make any comments or recommendations.


A Reminder about EDGE services
EDGE has been live on MTN’s network since November 2004.
EDGE offers data speeds of up to 236 kbps.
To use EDGE you need an EDGE enabled handset.
Coverage maps will be posted on the internet shortly. Contact Brian Seligmann for details.
If you have EDGE coverage your handset will register “Y’ello Broadband” on the cell broadcast.
If you have EDGE coverage or an EDGE handset it does not mean you have 3G coverage and a 3G handset.


Assistance and Support. Phone 1555 or e-mail CorporateHelpDesk


CHARGES

Voice
Exactly the same as current voice tariffs

Data tariffs
Exactly the same as current GPRS tariffs

Videomail
Free initially but will later have a monthly fee

Video Jamcams
R1 per 15 second view.
R1 per 15 second view.

Customer also pays for the data uses (see tariffs above)

Movie Trailers
Move Trailer is free on MTNLoaded when indicated but customers also pays for data used.

For example, a 180 kilobyte clip will cost around R1.80 for the data.

Videocalls (remember this is currently only possible for MTN to MTN calls)
R2/minute postpaid; R3/minute prepaid. Both incl VAT




Regards,



Y’ello 3G Team

[johandutoit2000]

With Vodacom the voice call and video call rates is the same. Not with MTN.
With Vodacom your normal free minutes is used for video calls too. Not with MTN. :(

[mc721221]

does vodacom do per second billing on video calls?

[MTNBroadband]

Some of the information above is not quite correct.

Video calls are currently *free*. Billing will start on the 26th June 2005 and not the 22nd.

There will also be a promotion on video calls

[johandutoit2000]

That does not take away from the fact that MTN is far more expensive than Vodacom. Why in the world would anyone now choose MTN. Certainly soon everyone would always just video call, because it costs the same as voice.... on Vodacom that is.

I want to video call ASAP, but knowing that I can do it at much lower rates at Vodacom, I am obviously going to move the moment my current contract expires. It just does not make sense.

[MTNBroadband]

I would like to put this in perspective. Do you mind my asking how much you are currently paying for a voice call on your contract?

[johandutoit2000]

I use the procall 300. Please put it in perspective.

[johandutoit2000]

Not sure what perspective it is that I must get, because it is simple. With Vodacom I would have had 300 minutes of Video calls. With MTN I now have 0 minutes. So I immediately save R600 with Vodacom if I take MTN's rates into account.

[Tahir Ally]

does vodacom do per second billing on video calls?

YES. :)

[mc721221]

Is MTN @R2 per second billing?

[Tahir Ally]

Is MTN @R2 per second billing?
No its not that expensive.Please check with them.MTN does not offer per second billing from THE 1st second across all packages

[Noble_Nanobot]

@ Tahir Ally : Dou you work for VODACOM?

[hotdog]

@ Tahir Ally : Dou you work for VODACOM?

Hear hear Nanobot, I'm getting that shifty feeling too..... :eek:

[lilgindauk]

hello
I was surfing through the internet and found out a website for s.a people.
I currently live in london and want to share some of my i.t experiences in the past 5 years.

We have over 6 major mobile telephone companies consisting over 3 billion members world wide.
Our vodafone here has given sa's vodacom 3g connectivity because vodacom uses the vodafones servers.(Satelite or vdsl)
we usaully pay a contract so we can use an unlimted amount of data calls.
If i came back to south africa(one day!) I would like to try out your new improved ohone companies. i still hope telkom is still not exsists beacuse its a rip off you people are getting. You should protest!
Viva south afrcan people.

[ash]

Some of the information above is not quite correct.

Video calls are currently *free*. Billing will start on the 26th June 2005 and not the 22nd.

There will also be a promotion on video calls

this is also a concern for me. I am an MTN fan and waited for the 3G roll out but to pay for video calls is not exactly a great move by MTN. Maybe you'll need to re-asses the situation. Its the same with the "sweet-spot" that you are trying to find with the gprs/edge rates. It is costing us money and other providers are more competitive in the regard.

[johandutoit2000]

I would like to put this in perspective. Do you mind my asking how much you are currently paying for a voice call on your contract?

Can you give me some light please. Some hope.

[johandutoit2000]

With Vodacom the voice call and video call rates is the same. Not with MTN.
With Vodacom your normal free minutes is used for video calls too. Not with MTN. :(

MTNBB,

Please give us some feedback on this statement. How will MTN compete with Vodacom if this Video Call pricing is implemented?

[MTNBroadband]

MTNBB,

Please give us some feedback on this statement. How will MTN compete with Vodacom if this Video Call pricing is implemented?

I'm sure I am going to get shot down for this but I will have a stab at answering this on Friday afternoon just ahead of our Sunday launch and then early next week we can have the debate. I don't want to give out any info ahead of time but at the same time my previous experience on this forum says I can't say I will answer the question to your satisfaction later either.

I hope that's sufficiently cryptic :confused: Friday afternoon.

[ScrnScrm]

MTN does not offer per second billing from THE 1st second across all packages

Well neither does Voda... And you can get per second billing from the 1st second on MTN - you just need to negotiate it with MTNSP.
I would like to re-iterate something I have said here before : If you are not happy with the terms and conditions of your contract, negotiate with them (any of the networks)! they can discount your contract and offer per second billing if you haggle hard enough!

[ScrnScrm]

That does not take away from the fact that MTN is far more expensive than Vodacom. Why in the world would anyone now choose MTN. Certainly soon everyone would always just video call, because it costs the same as voice.... on Vodacom that is.

I want to video call ASAP, but knowing that I can do it at much lower rates at Vodacom, I am obviously going to move the moment my current contract expires. It just does not make sense.

I would wait a couple of weeks first dude. Video call rates (especially interconnect agreements between Voda and MTN) and currently under negotiation. To make cross network calls, there will be an interconect charge as well, so I suspect that Vodacom will shortly be increasing their video call costs...

[johandutoit2000]

Why are you guys going on about per second billing?! The point is that it is not the same as voice calls and does not subtract from your contract inclusive free minutes. How can MTN compete with Vodacom in the arena of Video Calls then? That is the issue. I have no good reason to stay with MTN if they make the way that we shall all communicate (video calls) soon; so much more expensive than the competition. It makes no sense.

[sbloomer]

Why are you guys going on about per second billing?! The point is that it is not the same as voice calls and does not subtract from your contract inclusive free minutes. How can MTN compete with Vodacom in the arena of Video Calls then? That is the issue. I have no good reason to stay with MTN if they make the way that we shall all communicate (video calls) soon; so much more expensive than the competition. It makes no sense.

Personally I (and loads of others) don't give a t*ss about video calls, so you're making a sweeping statement about MTN's competetiveness (or lack thereof) within the market, which isn't necessarily true.

[johandutoit2000]

So you disagree that video calls is the future? You dont see it as something that you would want to use? You dont like the idea of seeing the person that you are talking to?

[sbloomer]

So you disagree that video calls is the future? You dont see it as something that you would want to use? You dont like the idea of seeing the person that you are talking to?

All I want is a mobile PHONE that acts as a high speed modem and one with which I can talk to people. As it is I can't find a phone without all the additional cr*p like cameras, calendars, coffeemakers and kitchen sinks. But then again that's my opinion. However, I know lots of people who feel that way....

While video might be different a multi-function phone will never be as good as the dedicated items like camera's etc.

[rehd]

A business phone has to have a calendar these days, and if it makes coffee, I would buy one. The kitchen sink well that wont be needed.

[johandutoit2000]

I'm sure I am going to get shot down for this but I will have a stab at answering this on Friday afternoon just ahead of our Sunday launch and then early next week we can have the debate. I don't want to give out any info ahead of time but at the same time my previous experience on this forum says I can't say I will answer the question to your satisfaction later either.

I hope that's sufficiently cryptic :confused: Friday afternoon.


The info is already out. Your press statement says R2 per minute for Video calls. Are you saying that it is incorrect?

[johandutoit2000]

All I want is a mobile PHONE that acts as a high speed modem and one with which I can talk to people. As it is I can't find a phone without all the additional cr*p like cameras, calendars, coffeemakers and kitchen sinks. But then again that's my opinion. However, I know lots of people who feel that way....

While video might be different a multi-function phone will never be as good as the dedicated items like camera's etc.

That is what you say now, but in a 2 years when everyone in the whole world uses video calls?

[mancombseepgood]

That is what you say now, but in a 2 years when everyone in the whole world uses video calls?

What would really be cool is a videophone where you could watch yourself speak...

[johandutoit2000]

...but that is how it works!? :confused:

[hotdog]

...but that is how it works!? :confused:

JDT2k, you normally watch the other person talk.... :D

[lilgindauk]

Well, I have a samsung fone that has video calling, but sends my bill through the roof:mad:

[Decotey]

Well to say the least I didn't expect anything great from the start, MTN you guys live up to my expectations. Always just that little bit more expensive than Vodacom. Never willing to take the first step.

[MTNBroadband]

Decotey, I'm not sure your comments are fully true. I personally have been involved in a number of first steps with higher data speeds. We launched HSCSD which offered 57 600 kbps as far back as 2000. Our original circuit-switched RAS service used to cost 68c/minute (34c off peak) which was way below anything else. We launched GPRS first by quite some margin and also took the coverage national. Soon after that consultants worked with a very big financial house in Cape Town and showed that their staff got the best performance and value from our GPRS compared to anything else on the market at the time. We launched MTN ICE as the first mobile lifestyle portal and judging from international conferences were ahead of the pack internationally with that. For consumers, we revamped that with MTNLoaded last year and now have over 1.3 million active subscribers. We chose to launch EDGE as our first step in broadband because it was stable and had high handset penetration already and that has shown itself in our annual results with our relatively higher data revenue growth. For corporates we launched Corporate Mobility at the beginning of last year which brought the data tariffs down to R10 (well below prices at the time) and this product is still pumping and is certainly a leader in this market. Our data services changed the landscape of point-of-sale electronic transactions completely. When we introduced our traffic cameras they reached a million hits per month quite rapidly. Our data bundle of R499 for the add-on I still believe is the cheapest GSM service in the world. How else can one get such extensive data access in South Africa with the combination of speed versus coverage etc etc etc.

[MTNBroadband]

Well, I have a samsung fone that has video calling, but sends my bill through the roof:mad:

Obviously not on MTN :) Our postpaid customers have enjoyed free video calls for the last month!

[MTNBroadband]

What would really be cool is a videophone where you could watch yourself speak...

I think all our videophones have the option that you can watch yourself (if that's what you really want) either in the large main screen or the smaller inset screen.

[Cube]

This question is for mtnbroadband:

Why does it seem that mtn is not as much bothered with marketing their services as vigorously as vodacom. Whenever mtn launches something, you here about it only much later. With Vodacom, its sometimes even before the service is launched. I mean, I only first heard about the 3g coverage on mtn after I had to nearly strangle the info out of a local mtn dealership. I had very nearly gone over to vodacom because I couldn't find a functional cellphone (looks irrespective) from mtnsp and also because it seemed that mtn is crawling with their response to vodacoms massive 3g launch (seemingly anyway).

Eventualy I went for the 6630 only because the 6680 is a bit slower in response and battery life drains quicker.

But I want to use mtn as my isp as well. I am currently only subscribed to mtndatalive with a 100mb bundle, which is still very little. But 1 gig is again too much (how bout something in between? 500mb maybe :o )

[MTNBroadband]

I agree that we could do more product advertising than we do as customers appreciate that. We do wait a while to see how well the product will work before advertising. With broadband, we have deliberately held back because it seems more honest to only advertise a service (such as EDGE) once your coverage is more reasonable. It's difficult because the media (and certain customers) fall for a good story.

I agree that an intermediate bundle is needed. There have been some long hours on our side getting 3G and EDGE into the market and after June 26 would be a good time for a few product tweaks. As I said, we wanted to look for the 'sweet spot' between 100 and 1 gig and we now have much more to work on.

[magus]

Just to contribute about the debate about "pretty soon everybody in the world will make video calls only" As somebody who has logged more video calls than I can count since 1997, with a group of pople all around the world, I can tell you that I do not beleiev that everybody will want to make video calls. Video calling is a special skill, and you actually have to relearn a whole lot of instinctive habits. One example: There is a small timelag between the lip movement and the voice, like it is slightly out of synch. This interferes with your built in assessment of when it OK to interrupt.

If anyone is interested, PM me, and I will email you a "Good Practice" booklet that I co-authored a couple of years ago.

[MTNBroadband]

So you disagree that video calls is the future? You dont see it as something that you would want to use? You dont like the idea of seeing the person that you are talking to?

I have tested out the videocall user experience extensively. My personal estimate (not the official MTN view) is that videocalls are very useful for specific contexts but will not easily replace voice for normal daily telephonic communication. It is simply a lot more work. The benefits are when showing something and for more personal conversations (eg with family whilst away from home).

To get back to your question of why you would want to stay on MTN: Because you are on a Procall 300 package, from Sunday 26, if you upgrade to a USIM you not only get a 128 kilobyte SIM card with extra address book fields, but enjoy a three month promotional period which includes a videomailbox, 300 megabytes of free downloads and 75 minutes of free videocalls. We've also prepurchase some of the video content on MTNLoaded so people can try that out!

I therefore hope you will take advantage at least for the three months to try out the data and videocall bundle and video content! It's a dynamic industry so we can talk again in October.

[Cube]

I have tested out the videocall user experience extensively. My personal estimate (not the official MTN view) is that videocalls are very useful for specific contexts but will not easily replace voice for normal daily telephonic communication. It is simply a lot more work. The benefits are when showing something and for more personal conversations (eg with family whilst away from home).

To get back to your question of why you would want to stay on MTN: Because you are on a Procall 300 package, from Sunday 26, if you upgrade to a USIM you not only get a 128 kilobyte SIM card with extra address book fields, but enjoy a three month promotional period which includes a videomailbox, 300 megabytes of free downloads and 75 minutes of free videocalls. We've also prepurchase some of the video content on MTNLoaded so people can try that out!

I therefore hope you will take advantage at least for the three months to try out the data and videocall bundle and video content! It's a dynamic industry so we can talk again in October.

Hi MTNBB

I find the above interesting... Will special offers like these be offered on all contract packages?

And how will things change (i.e. what is the attitude MTN will adopt) after this 3 month initial promotion? Specifically with regards to the tarifs.

Why I am asking is: I'm on Mycall 100 with the 100mb bundle bolt-on (as stated somewhere else) So I pay R135 + R100 and then on average another R120 for data calls and voice calls mixed = R355

Would it be cheaper to switch to a different package. One that's focused on data usage (My voicecalls are usually R20 - R30 a month as my bundled minutes take care of that need and even often carry over.)

[MTNBroadband]

Hi MTNBB

I find the above interesting... Will special offers like these be offered on all contract packages?

And how will things change (i.e. what is the attitude MTN will adopt) after this 3 month initial promotion? Specifically with regards to the tarifs.

Why I am asking is: I'm on Mycall 100 with the 100mb bundle bolt-on (as stated somewhere else) So I pay R135 + R100 and then on average another R120 for data calls and voice calls mixed = R355

Would it be cheaper to switch to a different package. One that's focused on data usage (My voicecalls are usually R20 - R30 a month as my bundled minutes take care of that need and even often carry over.)

I think you are on the right package as any alternatives would attract a cost for the voice calls. The alternative is MyChoice 75 or MyChoice 150 where the same value bundle counts towards either voice and data.

The 3G promo I mentioned does apply for MyCall 100 (30 minutes and 30 megabytes) which is still attractive but is a smaller benefit against the cost of the USIM upgrade. MyChoice 150 gives you 75 minutes and 300 megabytes on the USIM deal so if you were to change do the change first then get the USIM.

[ScrnScrm]

MTNBB - what do you get on the procall 600?

[mancombseepgood]

JDT2k, you normally watch the other person talk.... :D

Thanks for today's laugh - keep it up!

[Hydrofire]

3G hasn't kicked in automatically on my 6630, like it has on a colleagues. Is there something I need to activate?

I dread calling 808 because I was an early adopter with EDGE and would rather gnaw off my hand than have to educate call-centre staff on new technology again...

[Cube]

3G hasn't kicked in automatically on my 6630, like it has on a colleagues. Is there something I need to activate?

I dread calling 808 because I was an early adopter with EDGE and would rather gnaw off my hand than have to educate call-centre staff on new technology again...

What firmware you got? Newer firmware allows for the choice of switching off 3g. Mine was, surprisingly, set to off when it came back from the upgrade. If you haven't switched to "dual" or something similar, go to tools -> settings ->network

I that doesn't work, try dipping it in water or put it in the oven for a couple of minutes. I promise it will respond differently then :D

[MTNBroadband]

Ensure this is set to dual networks. If there are new sites going up in an area and they still need to be 'tuned in' then the settings are temporarily changed to discourage 3G usage until the tuning is complete and they then revert.

[jpretorius]

Our data bundle of R499 for the add-on I still believe is the cheapest GSM service in the world.
I am amazed that you are still peddling this line. It might be technically true for usage of exactly 1Gb, but Vodacom is actually cheaper across the board. I went for MTN rather than Vodacom based on the assumption that multiple bundles could be purchased which would have made your claim true. The reality is that at my current usage of 250Mb per month MTN costs R325 versus Vodacom's R200.

After I signed up and was told that muliple bundes were not allowed, you said that MTN was "looking at" allowing them in future. That was about 4 months ago. Now you are looking at new bundles:

I agree that an intermediate bundle is needed. There have been some long hours on our side getting 3G and EDGE into the market and after June 26 would be a good time for a few product tweaks. As I said, we wanted to look for the 'sweet spot' between 100 and 1 gig and we now have much more to work on.
May I suggest that you hold off with your "cheapest in the world" claims until either or both of those product tweaks have actually been implemented.

The 26th has come & gone and I didn't see anything.

[mc721221]

hear hear!

[Cube]

May I suggest that you hold off with your "cheapest in the world" claims until either or both of those product tweaks have actually been implemented.

Sadly, I must agree. Where has MTNBB dissapeared to? I hope he's still following the threads.

[Hydrofire]

What firmware you got? Newer firmware allows for the choice of switching off 3g. Mine was, surprisingly, set to off when it came back from the upgrade. If you haven't switched to "dual" or something similar, go to tools -> settings ->network

I that doesn't work, try dipping it in water or put it in the oven for a couple of minutes. I promise it will respond differently then :D


Firmware of the 6630 is 2.39.15 11/11/04 So this is before they introduced the ability to switch 3G on and off using that setting you mentioned.

Any other ideas to get 3G activated?

[Cube]

Hydrofire, I have been searching for answer but have none so far. It is really the first time that I hear about the 6630 not picking up the 3g network when in 3g coverage. I have heard of people complaining that the connections fail when voice calls are made (not referring to local network though, though I suspect the same applies) and that the phone sometimes refuses to switch back to 2g unless switched off, but never that. :confused: Mine is picking it up automatically.

But I'll keep on looking.

Anyone else that knows more? I would also like to know ...

Unless you phone Nokia (082 230 4050, i think) themselves and have a stab at that. Don't know if it would help.

[ScrnScrm]

For what its worth, I had the same problem with 3G on my 6630 - it just wouldnt switch to 3g even though I knew there was coverage. My firmware version is the same as above. Here is what I did : Loaded netmon, and forced the phone onto 3G. Rebooted the phone, the switched it back to auto. Voila, it now works fine! There seems to be a problem on the 6630 with "initial" 3G registration, but once thats done, Bobs your uncle. You only have to do this once. Oh, btw - tech support advised me to do this... May I suggest you try this and see what happens? Let me know either way - I am interested in the outcome! Cheers

edit : check out the thread "How to manually select a base station" in the MTN forum for details about netmon.

[Hydrofire]

Thanks ScrnScrm - forcing 3G on the 6630 with Netmon resolved the issue.

To be sheepishly honest, I think that it was my own buggering around with Netmon just after getting the phone that deactivated 3G in the first place, so this is not likely to be a common problem. :rolleyes:

[sbloomer]

May I suggest that you hold off with your "cheapest in the world" claims until either or both of those product tweaks have actually been implemented.


In the same vein VC should desist advertising on TV that they are the only 3G provider in SA.....

[RayBar]

May I suggest that you hold off with your "cheapest in the world" claims until either or both of those product tweaks have actually been implemented.
Did anyone notice the irony of MTNBB's previous comment:

With broadband, we have deliberately held back because it seems more honest to only advertise a service (such as EDGE) once your coverage is more reasonable. It's difficult because the media (and certain customers) fall for a good story.

[jpretorius]

Did anyone notice the irony of MTNBB's previous comment:
Ag shame. Never mind MTNBB, we still love you and we trust that you are in there batting for us against a bunch of bureaucrats.

[Tahir Ally]

In the same vein VC should desist advertising on TV that they are the only 3G provider in SA.....
I AGREE they should change it but change it to SA 1st 3G network.

[ScrnScrm]

I AGREE they should change it but change it to SA 1st 3G network.

eh, well they could. But it wouldnt be true. The first publically available UMTS (3G) network in South Africa was actually Sentech's MyWireless. Its based on the Global UMTS TDD Alliance. In fact, I think iBurst also beat Vodacom out of the gates - its was available for general beta public consumption before Vodacom as well...

[ScrnScrm]

In the same vein VC should desist advertising on TV that they are the only 3G provider in SA.....

Well they have never been the only 3G provider! What about Sentech MyWireless and WBS iBurst?

[Cube]

Tahir is simply being an irritant.

[Cube]

I know this is a bit soon, but does anyone have any idea on when additional data dundles packages will be offered and what can be expected?

Reffering to:

http://www.mybroadband.co.za/nephp/?m=show&id=417

[lilgindauk]

Will cell C have this or will it be a race between mtn and voda?

[rburley]

Cell C dont have it yet, I heard that they will by december but I dont think that is true. Cell C is a joke

[MTNBroadband]

Well they have never been the only 3G provider! What about Sentech MyWireless and WBS iBurst?

Agreed. I also find it fascinating the preoccupation with 'who was first with 3G'. The more interesting issues are around who is providing the best customer services on data and broadband.

EDGE is still providing the most important service by coverage and sheer number of users

[sbloomer]

Agreed. I also find it fascinating the preoccupation with 'who was first with 3G'. The more interesting issues are around who is providing the best customer services on data and broadband.

EDGE is still providing the most important service by coverage and sheer number of users

Absolutely.... I was merely making a point about advertising as jpretorius was trying to do....

As an aside, I have found that the 3G performance I have been getting (at Bruma) has dropped of considerably. about 3 weeks ago it was in exces off 300Kb/s, now it's down to about 170....

[mc721221]

MTNBroadband - you led us to believe that the EDGE coverage was good. That's not what the map says on your site. It's actually crappy.

[sbloomer]

MTNBroadband - you led us to believe that the EDGE coverage was good. That's not what the map says on your site. It's actually crappy.

Define crappy, seeing as though you're on your high horse again...

[Neo]

Decotey, I'm not sure your comments are fully true. I personally have been involved in a number of first steps with higher data speeds. We launched HSCSD which offered 57 600 kbps as far back as 2000. Our original circuit-switched RAS service used to cost 68c/minute (34c off peak) which was way below anything else. We launched GPRS first by quite some margin and also took the coverage national. Soon after that consultants worked with a very big financial house in Cape Town and showed that their staff got the best performance and value from our GPRS compared to anything else on the market at the time. We launched MTN ICE as the first mobile lifestyle portal and judging from international conferences were ahead of the pack internationally with that. For consumers, we revamped that with MTNLoaded last year and now have over 1.3 million active subscribers. We chose to launch EDGE as our first step in broadband because it was stable and had high handset penetration already and that has shown itself in our annual results with our relatively higher data revenue growth. For corporates we launched Corporate Mobility at the beginning of last year which brought the data tariffs down to R10 (well below prices at the time) and this product is still pumping and is certainly a leader in this market. Our data services changed the landscape of point-of-sale electronic transactions completely. When we introduced our traffic cameras they reached a million hits per month quite rapidly. Our data bundle of R499 for the add-on I still believe is the cheapest GSM service in the world. How else can one get such extensive data access in South Africa with the combination of speed versus coverage etc etc etc.

MTNBB, while I appreciate your patriotism to MTN, it'd be dangerous to make marketing type claims on this forum, forumites being the educated bunch they are :D

As you would have noticed, there are a few forumites with extensive insight into both networks.

A few corrections to some of the claims you've made:

1) Vodacom's camera service was actually available before MTN. It was not marketed though due, as you've stated yourself, the service had to be tested first before being made commercially available.

2) Vodacom has 100% GPRS coverage (MTN keeps on claiming they're the only one with 100% GPRS coverage) and a very large EDGE base already.

3) MTN claim they're the only network that can seamless switch between GPRS, EDGE and 3G. How do you get to this? Are you saying Vodacom can't. They can.

4) At R499/month MTN's 1Gb package is the cheapest 1Gb package available. However if you really want to compare apples with apples, you should compare the MTN contract that includes a data card with Vodacom's 1G offering. Here MTN is actually more expensive than Vodacom, i.e. R649 vs. R599.

5) Are you sure MTN is the cheapest in the world? I know of at least one country that's less expensive than South Africa.

6) Vodacom and MTN has about the same EDGE penetration with each at ~300K handsets.

Vodacom currently has ~1000 3G towers and about the same number on EDGE, according to them. What are the MTN numbers?

Not trying to start a flamewar. Just some facts.

PS. I don't work for Vodacom but do have some insight into both networks.

[Scandal]

Neo

Are you sure the Vodacom network support EDGE? I will have to look it up but I am sure I have seen many articles where Vodacom said they are skipping EDGE and are going straight to 3G. Could not find anything about EDGE on their web site.

[rehd]

Sorry Neo

But you say you have a insight into both networks. Please check your references to VC having EDGE? I think they are very short on that at the moment. And unless I am mistaken, VC does not have 100% GPRS coverage. MTN can claim to switch seemlessly between 3G & EDGE & GPRS, however the 3G has not been officially launched and VC has not launched their EDGE. So a bit of poetic liscence from both of them.




Quote
few corrections to some of the claims you've made:

1) Vodacom's camera service was actually available before MTN. It was not marketed though due, as you've stated yourself, the service had to be tested first before being made commercially available.

2) Vodacom has 100% GPRS coverage (MTN keeps on claiming they're the only one with 100% GPRS coverage) and a very large EDGE base already.

3) MTN claim they're the only network that can seamless switch between GPRS, EDGE and 3G. How do you get to this? Are you saying Vodacom can't. They can.

4) At R499/month MTN's 1Gb package is the cheapest 1Gb package available. However if you really want to compare apples with apples, you should compare the MTN contract that includes a data card with Vodacom's 1G offering. Here MTN is actually more expensive than Vodacom, i.e. R649 vs. R599.

5) Are you sure MTN is the cheapest in the world? I know of at least one country that's less expensive than South Africa.

6) Vodacom and MTN has about the same EDGE penetration with each at ~300K handsets.

Vodacom currently has ~1000 3G towers and about the same number on EDGE, according to them. What are the MTN numbers?

Not trying to start a flamewar. Just some facts.

PS. I don't work for Vodacom but do have some insight into both networks.

[Neo]

rehd, I know for a fact that portions of the Vodacom network is EDGE enabled. The Western Cape, for example, has got a few hundred towers up and running. I've personally attached to them via EDGE.

Why Vodacom does not market the fact, I can't quite grasp. When I asked them this they said that for them the EDGE rollout is more of an operational upgrade, just like the CS3/4 implementation, so they're not making a big fuss about it.

If Vodacom is 100% GPRS enabled, or not, I guess is a case of he-said, she-said. Vodacom emphatically state they are 100% GPRS covered.

Why if MTN says they've got 100% GPRS coverage everyone believes them but when Vodacom makes a similar statement we question it?

Maybe if someone can give a cell-id of a cell that's not?

I'd like to see the number of MTN EDGE and 3G towers. MTNBB?

[MTNBroadband]

I am happy to substantiate any of the claims I have made on this thread because I have been personally involved and over time in some of the strategy and the milestones.

Our traffic cameras (Jamcams) went live in 2002 for 'testing' and were on MTNICE in 2003. Our MMS traffic pictures via USSD came out soon after and even before MMS was commercial. Live video traffic was demo'd to the public at our MTNBroadband demo last June, on SABC, at our annual results.We got the idea from staff wanting to check traffic before they went home and we were lent a camera from the supplier (Axis) to get going. One of my colleagues bought 30m of LAN cable out of his own pocket to run down the Buccleugh tower and we stood at the bottom with our notebooks doing the first positioning. Real pioneering stuff which really makes it fun to come to work. Our link to the *123# menu was also an innovation from our USSD team and certainly. We didn't spend anything so we minimised the paperwork required to get the system going until after it was approved. After the uptake of our MMS pictures started to soar it was easy to prove the case.

[MTNBroadband]

Sorry Neo

But you say you have a insight into both networks. Please check your references to VC having EDGE? I think they are very short on that at the moment. And unless I am mistaken, VC does not have 100% GPRS coverage. MTN can claim to switch seemlessly between 3G & EDGE & GPRS, however the 3G has not been officially launched and VC has not launched their EDGE. So a bit of poetic liscence from both of them.


I just wanted to pick up on one point here. MTN's 3G is now officially and commercially launched (26 June).

[rehd]

Thanks MTNBroadBand

[dbnnet]

A reply to Tahir's (thankfully deleted) post:
The only thing on fire is Vodacom's inability to match EDGE's coverage and
upload speeds. Fact is that Vodacom's 3G coverage is pathetic.
EDGE is basically available in all major areas, and when the combo
GPRS/EDGE/3G cards become readily available, Vodacom's game is over
as they simply can't compete, and can't afford to expand 3G to cover
ALL areas.
Maybe that's the real reason you (A Vodacom Agent) constantly and
desperately insist on trashing EDGE and MTN on Myadsl.

[Celemasiko]

Tahir, I warned you. Please desist from such irritating comments in future, otherwise I have to delete further posts of this kind....

[manne2004]

Hi MTNBB,
I upgraded recently (3 months ago)....
I want to make use of the new 3g Offering...but you don't allow me.

MTN SP says I must take out a new contract....
I use GPRS to surf the net and I think 3G will fir me very well, but taking out another contract would not do...

Any advice how I can go about?
I am willing to pay an extra bit of $$ to stay on current contract and swop phones or whatever is avaialbe to do...

Manne

[M Venter]

I have a question for mtnbb,I have the Sony Ericsson Z800i,does it support edge and when will it be available (3g) in Polokwane?

[Tahir Ally]

Tahir, I warned you. Please desist from such irritating comments in future, otherwise I have to delete further posts of this kind....
I see you are from Toti.MTN has no 3G coverage on the South coast but Voda has.Toti has 3 3G live sites

[Tahir Ally]

I have a question for mtnbb,I have the Sony Ericsson Z800i,does it support edge and when will it be available (3g) in Polokwane?
Huh the Z800i does not support EDGE.If you buy a 3G phone it will not support EDGE.

[dbnnet]

You obviously never heard of the Nokia 6680?
But then I see you Vodacom folk don't ever do your homework.
The 6680 has 3G and EDGE.
Also....your 3G upload speeds suck.
EDGE performs better for any upload application.

[Celemasiko]

Tahir thats the second and last warning!!!!

[Tahir Ally]

You obviously never heard of the Nokia 6680?
But then I see you Vodacom folk don't ever do your homework.
The 6680 has 3G and EDGE.
Also....your 3G upload speeds suck.
EDGE performs better for any upload application.
MTN hyped EDGE so much but did not tell customers that all the new 3G phones wont support it.......I did not say anything about 6680 having EDGE or not.HSDPA will be available before December on all Vodacom 3G sites.MTN will only launch HSDPA June next year.......If Vodacom never do there home work.How come they are SA leading Cellular network.They also have the widest broadband coverage in SA......EDGE does not fall into the broadband category.

[dbnnet]

If you buy a 3G phone it will not support EDGE.
The 6680 is a 3G PHONE, it supports EDGE: I rest my case!!!


How come they are SA leading Cellular
ONLY in SA , because they are part of the Telkom monopoly that got a head start.
In total, MTN is larger, with more customers, and in more parts of the world.


EDGE does not fall into the broadband category
Then 3G must really be cr@p, as it underperforms EDGE in all upload applications.
(Thats' one reason why in the USA, EDGE and not 3G were deployed).

[Tahir Ally]

The 6680 is a 3G PHONE, it supports EDGE: I rest my case!!!


ONLY in SA , because they are part of the Telkom monopoly that got a head start.
In total, MTN is larger, with more customers, and in more parts of the world.


Then 3G must really be cr@p, as it underperforms EDGE in all upload applications.
(Thats' one reason why in the USA, EDGE and not 3G were deployed).
Well MTN is bigger outside SA.MTN is only 100 000 more customers.Vodacom has the least churn amongst all 3 networks.Internationaly when a networks buy a certain percentage of another network.Only that percentage can be added to the buyer.What MTN did they bought a small percentage of other networks but added the entire base....If you did not know Vodafone owns 35% of Vodacom.Vodafone is largest mobile operator with 350 million customers.Thats 1 in 3 people on this planet is connected to them..........When it comes to telecom the American are backwards

[dbnnet]

Well MTN is bigger......
Wow... that must have really been difficulty for you to say :)


Vodafone owns 35% of Vodacom
They are only the minority shareholder.
Telkom SA is the majority and controlling shareholder.


When it comes to telecom the American are backwards
The Americans were using cellular technology way before companies like Vodaphone even existed.
Having heavily invested in this initial analogue technology, and then waited, they have now been able to leap-frog us,
and are now deploying more sophisticated cellular solutions based on the WCDMA and CDMA2000 standards.
These ARE American technologies, and owned mostly by a company called Qualcomm (without which 3G would not exist).

[BloemGuy]

Vodafone is largest mobile operator with 350 million customers.Thats 1 in 3 people on this planet is connected to them

:) If this bloke wasn't so irritating I could almost enjoy all the crap he lets loose. He reminds me so much of George Bush who can't open his mouth without putting his foot in it. The last count (granted, it's a guess mostly) I saw (2000) was that this planet had a population of more than 6.1 billion people so if Vodafone has 350 million customers it is about 1 in 20 of the planet's population.

Also, according to http://www.hoovers.com/vodafone/--ID__47982--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml the 350 million seems overstated:


Customers have voted with their phones to make Vodafone Group the world's #2 wireless phone services provider (by subscribers) -- with more than 133 million (trailing only China Mobile (Hong Kong)). Vodafone Group has grown rapidly through acquisitions and has advanced toward its goal of creating a pan-European wireless network. The company, formerly known as Vodafone AirTouch, owns stakes in wireless carriers around the globe. Vodafone companies are leading mobile phone operators in the US (45%-owned Verizon Wireless), Germany (D2), and the UK (Vodafone). The company is uniting its far-flung affiliates under the Vodafone brand.

[TheCynick]

All I can say is...

Don't feed the troll.

[lewstherin]

lol...the more Tahir posts, the more I get put off ever using Vodacom again.

Methinks vodacom3G needs to gag that Tahir wally before he single handedly proves that Vodacom sales ppl really are as retarded and incompetent as we all thought.

[dbnnet]

Don't feed the troll.
Please don't take away one of the few pleasures I have left :)


...gag that Tahir wally before he single handedly proves that Vodacom sales ppl really are as retarded and incompetent as we all thought.
Hmmmmm... I wonder if MTN will give me free minutes if I keep feeding him? :)

[diabolus]

Wayee off topic but somewhat interesting relating to some comments i've read here:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/09/09_801-2.html


"The battle for Iraq is not over oil," said one Defense Department official involved in communications. "It's over bandwidth." And no one was fighting harder for a piece of the spectrum than the consortium led by American cellular giant Qualcomm with such business partners as Lucent Technologies and Samsung of South Korea. They wanted to follow U.S. troops into Iraq with Qualcomm's patented cellular technology, called CDMA, a system no nation in the Middle East had yet been willing to adopt. Even as the bombs fell over Baghdad, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), whose district includes many Qualcomm employees, had tried to wrap his favored company in the flag. He denounced the cellular system used by Iraq's neighbors as "an outdated French standard," and proposed a law that would effectively mandate Qualcomm on Iraq.


Think of it what you will [whether it is conspiracy theory or not, obviously things are happening in the world relating to this tech ], at least it's clear which nationality Qualcomm is :P .

EDIT:
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/3-28-2003-38202.asp


He has called on the US government to develop Iraq's mobile network using US-developed CDMA technology, rather than GSM, which has been recommended by the US defence department and is the standard system across Europe and the Middle East. The GSM network and has been adopted by 70% of the world's mobile users.

"If European GSM technology is deployed in Iraq, much of the equipment used to build the cell phone system would be manufactured in France, Germany, and elsewhere in western and northern Europe. Furthermore, royalties paid on the technology would flow to French and European sources."

Mr Issa is critical of the GSM technology, claiming that it is inferior to CDMA. He says the US government had chosen the "European" system because it was easier to eavesdrop on users' conversations.


Politics and Technology do not go well together :(

[dbnnet]

..He denounced the cellular system used by Iraq's neighbors as "an outdated French standard,"
...and there I was thinking that the French standard of communication was waving a whole bunch of white flags :)

[ScrnScrm]

...and there I was thinking that the French standard of communication was waving a whole bunch of white flags :)

Bwahahahahahaha. I thought that was the Italians?? Bwahahahahahaha.

I dont like the US cell networks much - find them to bloody unreliable. I suppose the areas they need to cover are just to great! The irony of course is that TDMA is much better over large physical areas than CDMA (CDMA based cells breathe too much causing inconsistent coverage!).
Oh well...

[laubscherc]

I battle a bit with 3G, my Z800 says it has 3G connectivity, but everytime I try to make a video call, it says that it has failed to do so. Am I missing something?

[ScrnScrm]

are you provisioned for video calling? the person you are trying to call - are they provisioned, do they have a 3G video enabled phone, and do they have coverage? Are they on the same network as you?

[Kompete]

I cannot find a 3G FAQ on this forum so I'm posting this question here (somehow the search function cannot search for '3G' or 'FAQ' cause its too short-unless i'm mistaken)

Anyway...The Question:
I am about too replace (thru insurance) my phone with a 3G phone. In order to use the 3G functionality do I have to renew my contract (according to MTNSP i have to)???:mad:

Thanks

[ajax]

I cannot find a 3G FAQ on this forum so I'm posting this question here (somehow the search function cannot search for '3G' or 'FAQ' cause its too short-unless i'm mistaken)

Anyway...The Question:
I am about too replace (thru insurance) my phone with a 3G phone. In order to use the 3G functionality do I have to renew my contract (according to MTNSP i have to)???:mad:

Thanks

No, you just have to ask them enable data on your phone number. Then if you want, you can request a data bundle as well. Just make sure you are not on an old "legacy" contract. A friend of mine got billed R25/MB for 5 months in a row due to a "miscommunication" between MTNSP and MTN.

[Kompete]

No, you just have to ask them enable data on your phone number. Then if you want, you can request a data bundle as well. Just make sure you are not on an old "legacy" contract. A friend of mine got billed R25/MB for 5 months in a row due to a "miscommunication" between MTNSP and MTN.

Thanks ajax

I already have a 100M bundle loaded, which I used with my old P900 (which I lost). Does this mean I only get a USIM with the new 3G phone and I'm ready to go?

[Insider]

Does this mean I only get a USIM with the new 3G phone and I'm ready to go?

You don't require a USIM, only the 3G phone. Your current SIM will work on the 3G network. Benefits of the USIM are: 128kB memory and roaming on 3G in other countries.