Immediate and Urgent call to action

[Peapod]

CALL FOR ACTION!!
I think it is imperative that every MyADSL member gets behind a vociferous and unambiguous and extremely forceful complaint to ICASA ahead of this Telkom price adjustment and restructuring taking effect.

What I propose is this:
1. We write a formal complaint to ICASA on behalf of all forum members.
2. Each and every forum member downloads a statement off this forum, fills it in and faxes it to ICASA, the statement is a formal rejection of Telkom's proposed pricing and service model.
3. We call for a public hearing
4. We call for ICASA to reject the application for the pricing model
5. We do this now!!!!! Before the SNO becomes operational - once the SNO becomes operational, Telkom will say they arent manipulating their monopoly
6. Each and every forum member downloads a second form from this site fills it in and faxes it to The President rejecting out of hand the proposed pricing structure and the restrictions placed on the telecomms industry by Telkom. We make our call for action heard at the highest level of government
7. Every forum member downloads a third form from this site, fills it in and faxes it to the President calling for the immediate removal of Minister Cassaburi from office
8. Every forum member downloads a fourth form from this site and fills it in and faxes it to the Freedom of Expression Institute FXI giving our support to their efforts and calling for nationwide action.
9. Every forum member recruits at least 10 new forum members each immediately from Small and medium business, Financial Control Officers of large corporates, CEO's, Executive Officers, man in the street whatever. We up the ante and grow our forum by 10x overnight.
10. We prepare a press release and releas it to the countries media - we use an agency to do this for us if necesary. We use our war chest to finance it if we have to. We HAVE TO STAND UP AND BE HEARD.

THE MANIPULATION OF THE PUBLIC IS NEVER GOING TO END UNTIL WE STAND UP AND MAKE OUR VOICES BE HEARD!!!

[Bobb]

I'm with you on this one Peapod. If Telkom go ahead with their plans i will have no option but to cancel my Adsl due to cost restraints.....and i just got it! Lets make such a racket we cannot be ignored!

[Syzygy78]

Im still waiting for my ADSL line to be installed... just my luck, it will probably happen on the 1st of November!!!

If anything we should be getting higher caps, less shaping on traffic etc.

I worked out, with a 3GB account, you can use a 1mbps ADSL line at full capacity for 1.25% of the month. Amazing isnt it...

Syzygy

[mando]

5. We do this now!!!!! Before the SNO becomes operational - once the SNO becomes operational, Telkom will say they arent manipulating their monopoly


I agree completely. We need to get as much information about this as possible out there now. Telkom is in a position where they can 'make the market' into whatever form they want. They have chosen to model it after the wireless/cellphone industry since that is their only competition and leads to massive profits for them. I am sure they would love to have hundreds of resellers of 'air time'. Once a new pay per gig pricing model is in place, there will be too many people piggybacking off it. It will be entrenched and impossible to change!

What other ways are there that people can contribute? What about starting a FAQ to rebuff Telkoms claims whenever they come up - e.g. 'the average user', port shaping and so on.

[VQuest]

Peapod, I like and agree with your plan of action. But we need to be sure of our facts before we go ahead with this. So far all we have are rumours. We need to confirm these rumours before we go ahead with such a massive campaign. If these rumours are not true and we went ahead, we'd come out with egg on our faces and will lose our credibility.

But besides that, I think you have some great ideas. We do need to increase the pressure.

[stoke]

Um - I cannot argue against something that does not exist yet. It's kinda pointless.

Once teklom release the facts, then I can argue against them.

It's mostly speculation now, and I may end up paying less for my ADSL than before, and I would not want to argue that one.

i.e. Me agreez wif AdLo.

[Vio]

So you would rather wait to be raped from the first of Nov before lifting a finger? ... If you realy think this isn't coming then your living in denial. There have been plenty of information going around from ISP's that have been informed by Telkom of the new billing model come november.

I for one do not wish to have these changes see the light of day, and will fax my form.

[Daveogg]

Go Peapod another excellent idea and well worth the small effort you are requesting from fellow formites. Even if we only create a delay, if we can buy some time, then it will have been worthwhile.

[ASS_SAZiN`]

I am so enraged. A couple of weeks ago I said in one of the threads that maybe we will end up liking the new "price structure" but after following the news and posts here, I have turned from a calm and collective person, considering all facts to now my very Mad :mad: self I also agree that the biggest problem I have is also the hard cap (local issue!) and the ip reset!!!

The Rates which they will charge is also afaik speculation no formal pricing structure has been released.Or has it?

But I also believe in a proactive approach rather than waiting for the 1st of November to be killed, we should get Kevlar and helmets so long!!

[RoosTa]

What we need is transparency in the matter. This 'loophole' is also speculation. SAOL have confirmed that they had a contractual agreement with Telkom to provide 30gig accounts at a low cost, but they have also confirmed the per gig billing system and so have other ISPs! WAKE UP people! We've all been fighting the 3 gig cap since the beginning. Now Telkom have proven that they can offer 30 gigs at a low price, but now they will charge ludicrous prices for the "scarcity" of having it!

I cannot believe you would be so ignorant to believe that Telkom will not implement this per gig billing.

To those people that are saying "3gigs is enough" I pity you. You are being charged excessively for a measily 3 gigs. You have been brainwashed into believing that you are paying "cheaper rates". mando said it best, Telkom creates a scarcity, so that you would belive you're getting more for less. If Mauritius can offer ADSL 512kb/s @ R397.89 uncapped, using the SAFE cable, no hidden cost, so can Telkom! This whole per gig billing is a SCAM.

What next? Will Telkom bill you seperately for receiving email, playing a game, downloading a movie? "If you surf the internet, we'll charge you a measily R50 per gig, but those bad people downloading pr0n and playing games will be charged R200 per gig" - F*** THAT!

Actions speak louder than words. If this per gig billing comes into play, I will cancel my ADSL entirely.

I'm with you on this Peapod!


5. We do this now!!!!! Before the SNO becomes operational - once the SNO becomes operational, Telkom will say they arent manipulating their monopoly Or worse, they might take on the new BS structure!

[sburrell]

Post the forms, an ill sign it and fax them through, im fed up with Telkoms threats and Monopolistic attitude to the economy, time to take action, With you 100%.

[LoneGunman]

Phoning ICASA individually, and asking them directly about this rumoured Telkom price hike - might be of use - especially seeing as ISP's appear to have been given the effective info already.
Ask the ICASA person you get put through to:
1. What do they know about this?
2. Is this potential crippling and step backwards by Telkom, in line with ICASA's recent findings.
3. Given that it impacts ADSL users - is this not simply Telkom going ahead with its threat to withdraw ADSL as a service, by another route (overpricing it to the point where it becomes impossibly expensive) while pretending to be still offering it as a service?
4. What can they find out about this?
5. What steps will they legally take - if this rumoured price hike is real - to prevent Telkom from effectively crippling a large portion of the local Internet market?

[AntiThesis]

Yes actions speak louder than words. But proof from a Telkom representative is needed as VQuest stated to retain credibility. That's just my opinion though. That said, I'm with you 100% peapod... just let me know when, how and where.

[doobiwan]

ICASA has the power to block the price increases, it happened a few years ago with basic call costs.

My guess is they haven't reacted because they'll address it in their regulation proposal coming out of the ADSL hearings.

What I'd really like is if someone could get us details on the regulations they're proposing.

I still think we should look at taking the DTi/ GVT to the constitutional court to force them to sell their shares in Telkom due to a conflict of interest. Doing the numbers, they still own 91% of Telkom!! That's the "Shareholder" getting all that R6Billion profit.

[bwana]

The high cap accounts are just a contractual loophole that some of the ISPs are using. Most users are still on 3Gb accounts so the big pricing increases will not effect them but only those high cap ADSL accounts.
IMO we won't have any luck arguing the new pricing.As some of the ISPs (WA and SOAL) were kind enough to point out to me, the higher capped offerings are not a loophole but rather a contractually sanctioned offering from SAIX so you might want to pull that from your repertoire.

http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=274542&postcount=112
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=274499&postcount=108

I do agree that we need to wait until the prices are official - but we can at least be ready to hit the ground running when it comes to a formulated response.

[scatlett]

Do we know for sure if Telkom must get approval from ICASA to change to per GIG pricing?

If so, how could they have informed the ISP's of the new billing structure, prior to getting approval from ICASA?

We don't know what is going to happen, so if we act prematurely - we are going to be losing credability as people will just see us as 'that group of internet users that will whine about anything.'

[rpm]

Hi guys

It is great to see the many relevant comments in this thread. I think it is definitely premature to attack the possible new pricing structure. ICASA will also not entertain any new ADSL related complaints before their new regulations are in place. This will be in draft form within the next few weeks (possibly two weeks), so I think it is a good idea to let them do their job and comment on the draft regulations when we it is time to do so. We can then address all of these issues, including the possible new billing system etc.

Regards,

RPM

[AntiThesis]

I reckon RPM has the right of this situation... but so does peapod. It's good to have a plan of action but shall we make it something to do once other avenues have been followed?

I'm sure someone will be able to find details of those contracts AdLo...

[air]

X

[bwana]

Please show me that contract . . .
How about it WA or SAOL - quick scan and post - you're isp's so webspace shouldnt be a problem.

[bwana]

Your first reference is useless. Your 2nd reference is by the same Pedantic from SAOL that said in http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=260821&postcount=50
One man's contractual loophole is another man's contractually sanctioned offering.

PS. bwana in future don't make sarcastic little comments if you think someone posts something that is not correct. You will just look stupid if you are wrong.If you go through the thread those two posts come from I think you'll see that I believed as you did that the 30gb accounts are a loophole. Now that they might have been at one time or another is also debatable but the ISPs are now claiming its done under contract. You'll also notice that I also asked them to produce a contract.

Neither of my previous posts contained sarcasm.

Edit - And why would you say a post from warichard is useless? But thanks for the pedantic reference - I was looking for it the other day.

[DSG GTI]

I like the idea of us all standing together for a common good. so please pass on the forms.

[munwaal]

While I do agree with what RPM has said, I do feel that we should be prepared to act immediately. As per PeaPod's suggestion, I suggest that we start drafting documentation anyway, that way, if this whole per-gig rape-fest goes ahead, we're ready at the drop of a hat.

[RoosTa]

I agree munwaal

However, we'll also require some harder evidence from the ISPs that this contract exists! So how about it, Axxess, SAOL, WA, AYCE, Imaginet?

[Peapod]

While I do agree with what RPM has said, I do feel that we should be prepared to act immediately. As per PeaPod's suggestion, I suggest that we start drafting documentation anyway, that way, if this whole per-gig rape-fest goes ahead, we're ready at the drop of a hat.
Absolutely. My point being we have to be PROACTIVE and possibly even pre-empt the sitaution. We have always been reactionary but we do actually have the ability to shape the way services are delivered to us - we are the biggest consumer body in the country and we arent generalist, we are a united front for affordable telecommunications and we should build on that and bank on that fact....
We can all do the grow the forum point immediately, so lets do it.

[rsd]

ICASA has the power to block the price increases, it happened a few years ago with basic call costs

I could be mistaken, but the ADSL stuff is resold by SAIX, not Telkom. I'm guessing this means that the per gig stuff doesn't fall under what ICASA is able to control, pricing wise.

Maybe Telkom's doing this to counter the (potential) removal of the line rental?

[scatlett]

Maybe what we should be doing is trying to pressure Telcrap into disclosing what it intends doing in terms of cost structures from 1'st November. Its almost September, they need to give the ISP's and the consumers time to prepare for any costs changes.

They shouldn't just spring this on us.

This is ESPECIALLY importing for those users (like myself) who have ordered but yet to receive an ADSL connection. For us, we ordered (in good faith) a service under a certain cost regime and by the time it is install the regime changes drastically.

[munwaal]

Maybe what we should be doing is trying to pressure Telcrap into disclosing what it intends doing in terms of cost structures from 1'st November. Its almost September, they need to give the ISP's and the consumers time to prepare for any costs changes.

They shouldn't just spring this on us.

This is ESPECIALLY importing for those users (like myself) who have ordered but yet to receive an ADSL connection. For us, we ordered (in good faith) a service under a certain cost regime and by the time it is install the regime changes drastically.

Agreed. The details are available to the ISP's, but they're under an NDA. I think it's possible that telkom are keeping as quiet about it as possible so that they can "spring" it on us without giving us a chance to fight it.

Is there any way to force telkom to supply us with this information?

[RoosTa]

1) I think we'll need to write a decent letter to Telkom/SAIX wholesale and CC: ICASA, asking for clarification on this particular issue? (Sorry, I'm a bit crummy in that department)
2) Obtain a copy of the contractual agreement that allows an ISP to sell 30gig accounts.

[VQuest]

I'm all for being prepared. Peapod, you have a way with words, so I presume you have some sort of draft already? If so, can we take a peek?

[Pentelbury]

Hi everyone!

Thanks RPM and CO. for providing this neat forum site. It's given me a good education all round. Being a layman, like most new-comers, pls can we get some factual info regarding telkoms entire network/fixed line infrustructure. For example, proof of what their exchanges are capable of, etc. I'm a NOOB here and would love to know how backwards telkom is. I get the feel that this stone-age company has gotten cold feet after giving us their version of ADSL *PUKE* Are they playing games with us? Are they scheming to pull the plug on ADSL, cause they're not capable?

I was in the UK in March 2003 and my buds' situation there was miles ahead then, compared to ours here, now! *SIGH* With Nov 1st looming ahead, I'm seriously considering canceling my ADSL order, which I placed almost a month ago. Like various others have asked above me, pls lets get some certainty regarding this per gig pricing. BTW what a disgusting poster ad I got with my PCformat mag this month! the cheek of it and what hypocrites! Hey PCformat, what happen to all those anti-telkom letters you guys use to include in your mag? Did telkom silence you guys with their advertising contract with you?

Sorry for all the questions. May we all get what we deserve in this day and age!

[RoosTa]

Welcome slightly_insane a very informative read is:

The genesis report:
http://downloads.hellkom.co.za/Genesis_Telkom_Report.pdf Though a little outdated, it highlights quite a few areas where Telkom is screwing the masses. (Especially local calls and Leased lines)

[craigsa]

Lets sabotage the Telkom Machine.

[AntiThesis]

How should I interpret you saying "you might want to pull that from your repertoire"?


I think it was meant as a suggestion...

:)

Howabout: (except perhaps a little less pompous sounding :P )

To Whom It May Concern:

In the interests of maintaining end-user satisfaction as well as a sense of transparency, we request that information pertinent to rumored Broadband price increases be made publicly available.

As consumers, we feel the need to be aware of any impending changes to services.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Us

[ghoti]

The high cap accounts are just a contractual loophole that some of the ISPs are using. Most users are still on 3Gb accounts so the big pricing increases will not effect them but only those high cap ADSL accounts.

This is absolute rubbish, they are not exploiting loopholes or any other IS progpaganda rubbish. They are simply reselling SAIX accounts. Posts like this annoy me.

[wantedz]

This is absolute rubbish, they are not exploiting loopholes or any other IS progpaganda rubbish. They are simply reselling SAIX accounts. Posts like this annoy me.


Yep they are buying a 3Gig account from SAIX but selling it as a 30Gig account due to the fact the 3gig capping was enforced by the reseller and not SAIX

[Celemasiko]

I'm with you on this one Peapod. If Telkom go ahead with their plans i will have no option but to cancel my Adsl due to cost restraints.....and i just got it! Lets make such a racket we cannot be ignored!


so do I....

[Peapod]

Okay...so lets keep this thread as relevant as we can to the task at hand. Are we agreed then that we immediately
1. All recruit at least 10 new members as fast as possible - encourage them to make one post even if its to the guests thread to say "howzit i'm here"
2. Prepare a letter to Telkom asking them for clarity and transparency on the rumoured pricing structures ahead of any implementation
3. Write the same letter in the open press so that we expose our position and gather more support.

THEN.....
If the worst case happens or looks inevitable,
We follow the original proposed steps and let all shades of hell loose as hard and as loud as we can, Press, ICASA, President, Government, DoC and Telkom?

Wizard, are you guys ready with some serious protest action in support of this?

[AntiThesis]

Sounds good peapod. I think (even though they're absolute sheep bladders) giving Telkom the opportunity to set the record straight is the way to go to maintain credibility.

[Peapod]

Sounds good peapod. I think (even though they're absolute sheep bladders) giving Telkom the opportunity to set the record straight is the way to go to maintain credibility.
absolutely hence the request for clarity ahead of any insurgence :D

[Pentelbury]

Hi LaRoosTa

Thanks for that report...read most of it and will reread it a few more times to let it sink in. Makes one gasp!

[Peter7]

I could be mistaken, but the ADSL stuff is resold by SAIX, not Telkom. I'm guessing this means that the per gig stuff doesn't fall under what ICASA is able to control, pricing wise.

Maybe Telkom's doing this to counter the (potential) removal of the line rental?

RSD, SAIX is TELKOM: http://www.saix.net/
It's TELKOM SAIX.

[Stephan007]

I've have upgraded from dial-up to ADSL last month. Just to find out today that Telkom is planning on raise the stakes, by letting us pay per gig. :mad:

I had a prepaid phone, my phone rent and isp with my calls came down to the same price as ADSL. Now i got more Bandwidth. I play online radio, al the time when i'm home. At the end of the night, after about 5 hours i've reached +/- 90-100 Mb. So that means i must upgrade again, to 10Gb. Just for lissening to the radio, Telkom is going to send me an impressive Bill????? :confused:

So now I must upgrade to isdn/dial-up again??

I agree with Peapod. So please pass on the forms. :cool:

[AntiThesis]

Whatcha do is... you rip up your telkom coppers and we all go back to the old tin-on-a-string bit like we used when we were kids :P Either that or carrier pidgeons :)

[VQuest]

Okay...so lets keep this thread as relevant as we can to the task at hand. Are we agreed then that we immediately
1. All recruit at least 10 new members as fast as possible - encourage them to make one post even if its to the guests thread to say "howzit i'm here"
2. Prepare a letter to Telkom asking them for clarity and transparency on the rumoured pricing structures ahead of any implementation
3. Write the same letter in the open press so that we expose our position and gather more support.

THEN.....
If the worst case happens or looks inevitable,
We follow the original proposed steps and let all shades of hell loose as hard and as loud as we can, Press, ICASA, President, Government, DoC and Telkom?

Wizard, are you guys ready with some serious protest action in support of this?


Agreed - I think this sounds like a reasonable first step. I don't think RPM would disagree with this. Lets get the ball rolling.

[rsd]

RSD, SAIX is TELKOM: http://www.saix.net/
It's TELKOM SAIX.

Right then, no need to get so excited.

Either way, I don't think SAIX pricing falls under what ICASA has the power to regulate.

[antowan]

We need to take it easy for a while guys. ICASA has indicated they will act against Telkom and we need to give them some space to do this. I seriously cannot see how Telkom can get away with price hikes on the 1st of November. If they do, it won't last if the ICASA findings go through to legislation.

We need to have a little faith now. At least until the legislation is tabled and we can see what kind of influence the minister is exerting on the legislation and what Telkom wants done...

IMO it is time to save our energy, not waste it. ICASA has shown a little faith and we need to return the favor. Lets hope they do not disappoint.

Just my opinion.

Regards
Antowan

[mccrack]

I agree with everyone putting their faith in ICASA, give the gears in ICASA a chance to work.

[AntiThesis]

*holds thumbs for ICASA to flex them muscles*

[clubbe]

We need to take it easy for a while guys. ICASA has indicated they will act against Telkom and we need to give them some space to do this. I seriously cannot see how Telkom can get away with price hikes on the 1st of November. If they do, it won't last if the ICASA findings go through to legislation.

Just my opinion.

Regards
Antowan

I fully agree with Antowan ...................but having said this nothing should stop us form preparing for 1 November so if Telkom DOES try force the new pricing on use we will be ready with massive and vigorous response......

regards clubbe

[ettubrute]

And now, after a publication like this (http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=25697), should we still wait?

[Peter7]

I agree. Let's not be hasty and give Telkom something to disarm the credibility of this forum. I say let's wait and see. This might be something Telkom initiated deliberately as far as it being an unconfirmed rumour and all. Their strategy might be to get us in an uproar over these high prices, so that when they do increase the price again - we won't think much of it and accept it compared to what was going to take place. Global trends however are working opposite and ADSL is in FACT becoming cheaper not more expensive like in this country. We shouldn't accept any increases!

[R4tt3xx]

We all need to calm down and wait for ICASA's suggestions with regards to ADSL. Their independent muscle needs to be stretched to see if they can indeed protect the South African public from telecoms abuse. Heck the new regulations are less than 2 weeks away anyways.

[MaryJane]

Wizard, are you guys ready with some serious protest action in support of this?

Peapod, we were born ready :D

[dominic]

telkom under the latest price control regulations is allowed to adjust tariffs so as to derive a 0.1% increase in revenue (according to them they have brought the basket of prices down by 3% to makes telecomms "even more affordable" (direct quote - i kid you not these people have no Shame)...i have not looked into it but if the supposed prices are not in line with this they will, afaik, be illegal

[AntiThesis]

Where is that from dominic? Sounds interesting at least...

[dominic]

disclaimer: most of the information contained in my last post was taken from the telkom marketing insert in my most recent account

but ICASA theoretically controls pricing - it is a regulatory attempt to create a fictitious competitive environment fot telkom....Debbie2 is probably the best qualified to comment on this aspect

and i stand by the fact that telkom cann0ot just willy-nilly change its pricing - @ this stage i reserve judgement as i cannot believe they would try and increase the cost of adsl while they are in the crosshairs of whatever gun it is that ICASA holds (pop? shot?)

[AntiThesis]

perhaps a combination of them both... POTS gun :P *kills self*

[Pentelbury]

Hi all

I am telkom slapped back to the end of the line and held there by a mighty big telkom thumb*sniff*. I gave em a call today to see how my ADSL order was going, they cancelled it and didn't bother to tell me! From my initial online application (which they did not get), to my reapplication at the telkom Tygervalley business shop a week later (a total of 4 weeks till now), they said something along the lines of: Sorry you do not pass the conformancy testing in your area. Protea Village has got modern fibre optic exchanges, which use a protocol not compatible with ADSL. We would have to replace all the fibre optics with copper lines, because adsl only works over copper. I am very sorry (the telkom lady whom I spoke to) but there is nothing we can do to help you...blah blah...thanks for your valued support, good bye. ARGH!!

A few minutes later I called again to ask several questions regarding my local exchange, future ADSL plans for my area, why I get a ridicules 28.8k max dialup connection with my exchange (for the past 6 years!), etc. I wanted answers! The lady at 10219 didn't have the answers and suggested I call 0800375375 (telkom ADSL depart.) , which I did with no joy. I was given another 0800 number (0800456786), which didn't help much either, to finally be given an email address of a "specialist" there, to pose my questions! (HillG@telkom.co.za, pls spam!! HEHE)

What telkom did reassure me as a fact, is that they are planning to replace, modernise all exchanges in the country, for ADSL. I certainly hope so. I was told to reapply for my ADSL in a months time and hopefully they would be ready for me (RIGHT! more like when they feel like it and you'll be lucky you get it at all!).

So I'm stuck with my pathetic analog line and more NEGATIVE feelings for that evil company we all love to hate :(

Sorry for all my whinging! I'm very sad just now! I wonder how many others there are like me, waiting on telkom to give em a wee bit of service! BTW again... Prior to all this, I spoke to a work college's brother this morning, who works for telkom. We spoke for about 15 min regarding ADSL, although ADSL is not his department, importantly what he did say was, that no one at telkom has received anything regarding Nov 1st ADSL pricing structure (yet). He said it would be crazy for telkom to shoot themselves in the foot like that, to make ADSL any more expensive than it is at the moment. For what its worth I hope he's right! He also said that telkom is heavily involved in rolling out, driving all the new technologies. He said they are currently struggling to keep up with demand for ADSL, and that it is completely contracted to an outside source, for the rollout, etc. It was an interesting conversation, getting this guys neutral perspective. Lastly he hinted that telkom was concentrating on providing better services in the future, comparable to other countrie's prices and technologies. I hope that it is so...

Cheers! here's wishing... (being a dialup user, I can't even start complaining about my ADSL line yet! ;)

P.S.: I hope my bitching adds to the flames!

[snoopy_inc]

well firstly to peapod...

Already ahead of you on your regard.:)


With the purpose of having a channel myadsl.co.za on a different server we have managed to get so far a total of -+ 27 users to join up on the forums. Surprisingly most ppl were guest users just browsing throu the topics.

But

We need to continue and strive for the best and not stand for anything less!!!

laters

[stormwalkerza]

U have my sapport - will fax, email, phone - whichever once the "horn is blown" :-p

SW

[Peapod]

RAAAAAAAAIGHT ON!
so, will troll through this thread tonight and find a cunning plan to put into action that is
a)cost effective
b)highly visible
c)gets results

quite what we want to achieve right this minute isnt really clear to me just now but i feel the need to take my recent angers and frustrations out on telkom somehow..../brews cunning plan

[ettubrute]

Go, Peapod, GO! :D