Where does human beings come from...?

[dantheman]

hey people how is everyone doing?

i would really like someone to answer this question cos some say this and some say that.
isnt there like some team of experts that can decide on this?

i have a possible explanation but would like to hear what the well-educated says on this topic.

I'm sure this topic has been discussed before but thanks for those that would entertain the discussion.
And i know we can discuss it like grown people giving everyone a fair chance and keeping the sarcasm to a bare minimum please.

Dan

[porn$tar]

What is your "possible explanation"?

[Geriatrix]

Earth.

[Keeper]

Mutated Monkey Fish-Frogs.


but seriously...why don't you read "The Origin of the species" ?

[Nick333]

This strikes me as the exact sort of thread that should be avoided or even reported if PD is going to be cleaned up.

[dantheman]

oh hi Grandmaster and Super Grandmaster.

let's allow for it to unravel and see what we come up with

[wise_guy]

The sheer mind boggling process of procreation in humans are so complex and beautiful,you can rule out evolution.

[porn$tar]

let's allow for it to unravel and see what we come up with

Let's start by unravelling your thoughts on the matter.

[dantheman]

This strikes me as the exact sort of thread that should be avoided or even reported if PD is going to be cleaned up.

are you serious ?
whats wrong with this "type" of thread?
are we not allowed to "know" where we come from?

we simply want to discuss the possibilities

[porn$tar]

The sheer mind boggling process of procreation in humans are so complex and beautiful,you can rule out evolution.

How about the simple splitting of amoeba? Does that rule out evolution?

[Keeper]

are we not allowed to "know" where we come from?

are you serious?

[dantheman]

Mutated Monkey Fish-Frogs.


but seriously...why don't you read "The Origin of the species" ?

where can i find it?
but i think the best way to get anywhere is to discuss these types of topics.
that way you might say something important that i might have missed while reading it

[RazedInBlack]

are you serious ?
whats wrong with this "type" of thread?
are we not allowed to "know" where we come from?

we simply want to discuss the possibilities

Has been discussed before, in numerous threads.

[Nick333]

are you serious ?
whats wrong with this "type" of thread?
are we not allowed to "know" where we come from?

we simply want to discuss the possibilities

Ja, ok. Supposedly noob poster starts a thread on a topic thats almost guaranteed to attract hot headed muppets - not suspicious at all.

[Cyclops_SA]

Not sure about everyone else but I've been told I come from my Mummy and Daddy !!!

[dantheman]

How about the simple splitting of amoeba? Does that rule out evolution?

ok so at least we can gather that you are pro evolution....hey isnt that a game?

[alloytoo]

hey people how is everyone doing?

i would really like someone to answer this question cos some say this and some say that.
isnt there like some team of experts that can decide on this?

i have a possible explanation but would like to hear what the well-educated says on this topic.

I'm sure this topic has been discussed before but thanks for those that would entertain the discussion.
And i know we can discuss it like grown people giving everyone a fair chance and keeping the sarcasm to a bare minimum please.

Dan

Individual human beings are the product of a human sperm fertilizing human Ovum, resulting a new unique example of the species.

Humans (as a species) are great apes, through the processes of random mutation and natural selection we diverged from our closest relatives (Chimpanzees & Bonobos) about 5 million years agos and evolved into modern man.

[murraybiscuit]

either:
1. evolution
2. god
3. aliens / ET
4. solipsism (from an existential POV)

the experts have pretty much reached consensus depending on which camp you fit into:

1. scientists and biologists support evolution
2. theologians support creation
3. ufologists support extra terrestrial theories
4. solipsism claims there is no objective truth, so that's a dead end

some theists claim that evolution can be compatible with creationism if creationist scripture is interpreted figuratively.
i'm not really in agreement with that viewpoint, as it blurs the line between myth and truth in theistic canon.

i am personally more in favour of evidence and science than faith and myth.

[alloytoo]

where can i find it?

http://darwin-online.org.uk/EditorialIntroductions/Freeman_OntheOriginofSpecies.html

[dantheman]

Not sure about everyone else but I've been told I come from my Mummy and Daddy !!!

aaawh i come from them too you know - i mean my mommy and daddy :)

[murraybiscuit]

This strikes me as the exact sort of thread that should be avoided or even reported if PD is going to be cleaned up.

yeah, it's sus, you're right.

[RazedInBlack]

Not sure about everyone else but I've been told I come from my Mummy and Daddy !!!

You'd do well to stick to the basics then.

[porn$tar]

ok so at least we can gather that you are pro evolution....hey isnt that a game?

Nick's suspicions are spot on then, you're not really serious about wanting to "know".

[dantheman]

Individual human beings are the product of a human sperm fertilizing human Ovum, resulting a new unique example of the species.

Humans (as a species) are great apes, through the processes of random mutation and natural selection we diverged from our closest relatives (Chimpanzees & Bonobos) about 5 million years agos and evolved into modern man.

so thats basically darwinism right?
the apes sure do look a lot like humans hey
so you are saying that everything started with a apes/monkeys?

[wise_guy]

@pornstar.God created evidence to support evolution to test us in our faith.Its like a trick question in an exam.If you haven't studied(belief)you going to get it wrong.Its as simple as that.

[Mineer]

Not sure about everyone else but I've been told I come from my Mummy and Daddy !!!

Do believe this or know this,

...not making fun I want to you understand this, its actually crucial to understanding origins of creation

[Synaesthesia]

so thats basically darwinism right?
the apes sure do look a lot like humans hey
so you are saying that everything started with a apes/monkeys?
What are you saying? You haven't said anything.

[Nerfherder]

"Where DO human beings come from"

FFS just verkrag my taal !

[dantheman]

Nick's suspicions are spot on then, you're not really serious about wanting to "know".

why is everyone so suspicious about me?
am i missing something here?

i would like to know what you guys think where we come from, i didnt say that im going to "believe" everything thats being said

[Jab]

Not sure about everyone else but I've been told I come from my Mummy and Daddy !!!

Ehh, this is awkward, no one told you about the adoption...?

[Jola]

God created evidence to support evolution to test us in our faith.Its like a trick question in an exam.If you haven't studied(belief)you going to get it wrong.Its as simple as that.

:sick:

[alloytoo]

so thats basically darwinism right?

Evolution, as initially described in Darwin's Origin Of The Species, and subsequent works.



the apes sure do look a lot like humans hey
so you are saying that everything started with a apes/monkeys?

No.

I'm saying that humans and chimpanzees diverged from a common ancester.

[MyView]

Answer depends on whose asking the question:
FIRSTLY
If you’re a strong believer of the good faith, then you would assume the Adam and Eve scenario… Nowadays we also have Adam and Steve which may be problematic if scientists don’t help out…
SECONDLY
If you are a Darwinist, then we’re all monkeys….
THIRDLY
If you’re as logical as I am, then it all started with supernova (exploding star) which resulted in the formation of earth and everything else on it.

[alloytoo]

@pornstar.God created evidence to support evolution to test us in our faith.Its like a trick question in an exam.If you haven't studied(belief)you going to get it wrong.Its as simple as that.

FSM created Mohammed/Jesus/Moses/Zeus/Odin as a joke to test our sense of humour.

[Keeper]

so you are saying that everything started with a apes/monkeys?

Yes. plants evolved out of monkeys. Whales, rhino's and birds also came from monkeys. :D


Seriously man I don't know what to think of this thread, if it's just trolling or real or what


If you are serious, we can discuss things seriously. 1st off all tells us what YOU think. :o

[RazedInBlack]

why is everyone so suspicious about me?
am i missing something here?

i would like to know what you guys think where we come from, i didnt say that im going to "believe" everything thats being said

Why are you so desperate to know? Whats the urgency?

[DigitalSoldier]

why is everyone so suspicious about me?
am i missing something here?

i would like to know what you guys think where we come from, i didnt say that im going to "believe" everything thats being said

Why not give us your view on the subject ?

As from your OP you said you do have a possible explanation.

[dantheman]

"Where DO human beings come from"

FFS just verkrag my taal !

oooooohk so this is the reason that the threads gets removed hey
you are the type that shouldnt drink nerf :)

if you dont have anything decent to say then there are other threads to browse through

[Synaesthesia]

So, what do you believe?

[Jab]

why is everyone so suspicious about me?
am i missing something here?

i would like to know what you guys think where we come from, i didnt say that im going to "believe" everything thats being said

Seem the consensus is you are from under here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge)

[Techne]

either:
1. evolution
2. god
3. aliens / ET
4. solipsism (from an existential POV)

the experts have pretty much reached consensus depending on which camp you fit into:

1. scientists and biologists support evolution
2. theologians support creation
3. ufologists support extra terrestrial theories
4. solipsism claims there is no objective truth, so that's a dead end

some theists claim that evolution can be compatible with creationism if creationist scripture is interpreted figuratively.
i'm not really in agreement with that viewpoint, as it blurs the line between myth and truth in theistic canon.

i am personally more in favour of evidence and science than faith and myth.
Well, from a classical theistic perspective, the view that it is either creation or evolution is a false dichotomy.

Evolution is just a synonym for change, with biological evolution (Darwin's theory of evolution) just one aspect of change. Deists and some IDers assert that creation is only compatible at the beginning of the universe or perhaps the origin of life where an outside source somehow intervened to create the universe and/or life and all subsequent change happens without interference.

From a classical theistic perspective, if God creates a universe, a human being, an animal, the next moment etc., God does not intervene, he causes it to exist and is continuously involved in the existence of the world at each instant.

The "either God or evolution" is a false dichotomy and makes about as much sense as "either God or change" dichotomy.

[murraybiscuit]

Ehh, this is awkward, no one told you about the adoption...?

you mean the abduction? :D

[alloytoo]

If you are a Darwinist, then we’re all monkeys….


Apes.

[wise_guy]

@alloytoo.Im not laughing.

[Keeper]

If you are serious, we can discuss things seriously. 1st off all tells us what YOU think. :o


Why not give us your view on the subject ?


So, what do you believe?


Why not give us your view on the subject ?

:D

[spf1007]

Q: Where did humans come from?
A 1:
Technically, we are from the middle of a star. In the heart of a star there is enough heat energy to make fusion occur (sticking subatomic particles together) , forming every element. When a star explodes (supernova) the elements are scattered. the gravity takes hold, creating the earth. Then evolution takes place and forms life and eventually us. It is now generally accepted that man evolved from our predecessors over a period of several million years. Archaeologists have unearthed numerous remains of the early hominids who preceded us. Although, there are several gaps in the evolutionary chain that remain undiscovered.

The term "human", in the context of human evolution, refers to the genus Homo, but studies of human evolution usually include other hominins, such as the australopithecines. The Homo genus diverged from the australopithecines about 2 million years ago in Africa. Several species of Homo evolved, including Homo erectus, which spread to Asia, and Homo neanderthalensis, which spread to Europe. Homo sapiens evolved between 400,000 and 250,000 years ago. Most scientists favor the view that modern humans evolved in Africa and spread across the globe, replacing populations of H. erectus and Neanderthals. Others view modern humans as having evolved as a single, widespread population.
Humans (Homo sapiens) are the present representative of the genus Homo as it has evolved from earlier forms (Homo erectus, Homo habillis et al.)

Note I did not say we are the end of the evolutionary process, came from more primitive forms, the result or other terms to suggest we're the best or the final step.

Since our earliest ancestors we have been adapting to fill an ecological opportunity. This has led to us presently having larger brains, an erect posture, colour vision, an inability to create vitamin D, a vestigial appendix and many other characteristics.

We've beaten out competitors (e.g. Homo neanderthalensis), it is theorized that other species of Homo- were incorporated into the Homo sapiens species. At times we have been almost wiped out as a species, perhpas down to as few as 25,000 species representatives. Presently we are flourishing on every continent.

A2:
There is a long-lasting battle raging in America between the Christian right and scientists as to the origins of man. Some Christians take the Bible story of Genesis literally. They believe God made Adam and Eve six thousand years ago, and that all the animals and plants of the world began at that time. This theory is called creationism. So when presented with evidence that fossils have been laid down in sediment that is known to be millions of years old, the creationists say that it's a trick to test their faith.
The scientists believe in the theory of evolution and Darwin's survival of the fittest. So tall giraffes eat more leaves than shorter ones, so they survived to give birth to progeny that over time got taller and taller and that is why a giraffe is as tall as it is today. The evolutionists also believe that four billion years ago particles on earth clanged together randomly to form proteins and DNA molecules, and that from that 'particle-clang' process, single-cell life forms grew in the primordial soup of early earth to become humans.
Some believe that Darwin said that humans evolved from the apes. But that was misinformation put out by those that were antagonistic to Darwin's theories that hoped to ridicule him into submission. In fact, Darwin never said that modern man evolved from the apes. He said there is a gap in the fossil record and that he did not know how modern man evolved.
The chance of particles bumping together to form the right amino acid chain to establish one life-sustaining protein are 10 to the power of 130 or 10 with one hundred and thirty zeros. Paul Davies, who wrote The 5th Miracle, says that life requires hundreds of thousands of proteins and the chances of them all coming together at random are 10 to the pwoer of 40,000.
Then the odds that millions of protein molecules happen into existence by chance, just as millions of DNA atoms also happened to become viable at the same instance, and that they bound together to form millions of species of animals, plants and insects here on earth, would be 10 to the power of all the zeros you could put down on a piece of paper between here and a distant galaxy.
The problem with the theory of evolution and the particle-clang theory is that it is mathematically fraught, and in terms of evolutionary scales the total of earth's existence, four billion years, is not a very long time. Many believe there has not been enough time for the random clanging of particles to create life, never mind enough to form the human eye, or a finger nail, or fifty million animal, insect, and plant species that exist or have existed on earth.
There is a third theory, called 'intelligent design'. It is akin to creationism in that it says that a superior intelligence created life on earth, but the followers of intelligent design don't agree with the Christians' six thousand-year time frame; they side with the evolutionists in believing life on earth is hundreds of millions of years old. (The oldest documented fossils of living animals are 540 million years old).
Some say it was God that designed life on earth, and others say they don't know who designed intelligent life, except that it must have been a civilization that is older and superior to ours. Some believe that aliens placed us here as an experiment, and while no one can disprove the idea, there isn't any evidence for it either. The problem with the theory of aliens from another star system is they would also be living on an earth-like planet that sustains life that is in this universe, and that planet may not be any older than ours. So there is every chance that aliens from another system would be not be any further forward than we are.
What is unexplainable is that modern man (Cro-magnon man), suddenly appeared in the fossil record thirty-to-forty thousand years ago. There is no fossil record of us having evolved from any other beings or animals, and there is no record of us having been here on earth before thirty thousand years ago. Modern man is not linked via DNA to the Neanderthals, whatsoever. So the fossil mystery gives rise to a speculation I call the 'plopped-on-earth' theory. The question is what form of intelligence (if any) dropped us off here thirty thousand years ago.
The Fourth Alternative
The answer may be found in a fourth alternative, a trans-dimensional theory that says we weren't exactly dropped off; but that we walked in from another dimension. We know from watching the Morph sensation that I have written about extensively on my sites StuartWilde.com & StuartWildeBlog.com that this world is not always solid.
When the Morph appears strongly in a room, it seems as if there are fast-moving striations that move across your vision with many vortexes and swirls in it. You can put your hand up in it and your hand will dematerialize. It sounds extraordinary but we have seen that phenomena more than a thousand times. I've also seen humans completely dematerialize in front of my eyes and not reappear for ten minutes or more. I've done it myself with others watching.
One night, I was out in a garden teaching a mate of mine from Montreal how to dematerialize, when a golden ring of light formed on the lawn. It appeared from nowhere. There was no obvious source to the light or any beam shining down from above. It was just there. So I told my mate to walk out and stand in the ring of gold, and he did that and 'blip' he was gone. He came back into view a while later, but when he was gone, he was totally out of sight. I could clearly see the distant trees through the area where he had been standing.
The other dimensions I write about, that Paul Dirac postulated (1930) exist as antiparticle worlds, seem to our perception to be placed at arm's length at 90° degrees to us. They are not out in space a million miles away. So if a human can dematerialize and walk out of here, then it might also be possible, that at some point in ancient history, humans walked into this 3-D world from another more rarefied dimension close at hand, the walk-in theory might be possible.
The problem with all the other theories of origins of man is that they look at the earth and humans as solid. Once you realize that the planet's solidity is an illusion and that it also exists in a non-solid trans-dimensional form, then it is perfectly feasible that a human could walk out of a multi-dimensional, non-solid, hyperspace into the 3-D earth plane and become solid flesh and blood once he or she got here.
Then particle-clang looks silly as the origins of our humanity and all of life on earth could well have begun in an eternal, twenty-six dimensional hyperspace that might have existed for trillions upon trillions of eons, before this universe came into being, just 13.8 billions years ago. Humans could be very old, much older than the universe. It is also very possible that our Universe is just one of hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of universes, that various human species have evolved in over timeframes that are so astronomical in length, they boggle the mind.

Here is the links where I got those: Where did humans come from A1 (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_humans_come_from)

Where did humans come from A2 (http://www.articlesbase.com/spirituality-articles/where-did-humans-come-from-828625.html)

[Synaesthesia]

The sheer mind boggling process of procreation in humans are so complex and beautiful,you can rule out evolution.
Aah. So sex is so awesome, it's got to be design.

[alloytoo]

@alloytoo.Im not laughing.

You failed the test.

[dantheman]

Answer depends on whose asking the question:
FIRSTLY
If you’re a strong believer of the good faith, then you would assume the Adam and Eve scenario… Nowadays we also have Adam and Steve which may be problematic if scientists don’t help out…
SECONDLY
If you are a Darwinist, then we’re all monkeys….
THIRDLY
If you’re as logical as I am, then it all started with supernova (exploding star) which resulted in the formation of earth and everything else on it.

now this is a "man close to my heart"...!
he tells it as it is :)...bottom line type of guy

i would like to challenge your supernova thought...dont you think that the "exploding star" would have caused havoc. Everything is so so so organised....or did we come a long way since then?

[Synaesthesia]

now this is a "man close to my heart"...!
he tells it as it is :)...bottom line type of guy

i would like to challenge your supernova thought...dont you think that the "exploding star" would have caused havoc. Everything is so so so organised....or did we come a long way since then?
Well the universe looks pretty randomly distributed to me. Clusters of stars, galaxies and crap everywhere.

edit: and you should see my room!

[alloytoo]

Well the universe looks pretty randomly distributed to me. Clusters of stars, galaxies and crap everywhere.

edit: and you should see my room!

MEssy Messy Messy

[dantheman]

Aah. So sex is so awesome, it's got to be design.

you have to admit though that the male and female species does fit perfectly together while making love :)

[Synaesthesia]

i would like to challenge your supernova thought...dont you think that the "exploding star" would have caused havoc. Everything is so so so organised....or did we come a long way since then?
Are you going to explain your philosophy as a bunch of questions, because that's just ... tedious.

[Synaesthesia]

you have to admit though that the male and female species does fit perfectly together while making love :)
All the more evolutionary incentive.

[alloytoo]

you have to admit though that the male and female species does fit perfectly together while making love :)

Male Prey Mantis disagrees, as does the tigress

[Keeper]

you have to admit though that the male and female species does fit perfectly together while making love :)

not for a snail it doesn't

[Mineer]

FSM created Mohammed/Jesus/Moses/Zeus/Odin as a joke to test our sense of humour.

example of the Sort of blaspheme that should not be tolerated ??? mods can decide

[ShaunSA]

@pornstar.God created evidence to support evolution to test us in our faith.Its like a trick question in an exam.If you haven't studied(belief)you going to get it wrong.Its as simple as that.

You are right. It is simple.

[alloytoo]

example of the Sort of blaspheme that should not be tolerated ??? mods can decide

Take it up with FSM.

RAMEN

[Keeper]

example of the Sort of blaspheme that should not be tolerated ??? mods can decide

he just made a typo - it's not FSM who created them all, it was Xenu.
(seriously...no jokes)

[murraybiscuit]

Well, from a classical theistic perspective, the view that it is either creation or evolution is a false dichotomy.

Evolution is just a synonym for change, with biological evolution (Darwin's theory of evolution) just one aspect of change. Deists and some IDers assert that creation is only compatible at the beginning of the universe or perhaps the origin of life where an outside source somehow intervened to create the universe and/or life and all subsequent change happens without interference.

From a classical theistic perspective, if God creates a universe, a human being, an animal, the next moment etc., God does not intervene, he causes it to exist and is continuously involved in the existence of the world at each instant.

The "either God or evolution" is a false dichotomy and makes about as much sense as "either God or change" dichotomy.

good point. not sure i'd agree with evolution being compatible with first cause.
most creation myth doesn't start with an amoeba, it IMO was an attempt to explain how humans arrived on earth in their present state.
i'd say that deism is an exception in that respect (thinking of abrahamic, teutonic, greek and persian creation mythologies for example).
darwin's concepts were pretty different to what i'd regard as "classical theism".
i guess it depends on how you'd define that term...

[MyView]

now this is a "man close to my heart"...!
he tells it as it is :)...bottom line type of guy

i would like to challenge your supernova thought...dont you think that the "exploding star" would have caused havoc. Everything is so so so organised....or did we come a long way since then?

Its called Organised Chaos...

[dantheman]

:D

so you guys cant actually be yourselves because you don't know how to "label" me :)...

you guys actually want to throw a few sarcastic statements and a few rude statements because you think by asking a few embarrassing questions you have imposed your views and converted everyone to "your" side

if i was Muslim you would say that Muhammed is a warlord
if i was a christian you would say that christians are fake
if i was an atheist you would say, wait, what would you say?

[dantheman]

Well the universe looks pretty randomly distributed to me. Clusters of stars, galaxies and crap everywhere.

edit: and you should see my room!

ok so is there any evidence, not opinions, of that on earth...that support the "exploding star" theory

[Mineer]

so you guys cant actually be yourselves because you don't know how to "label" me :)...

you guys actually want to throw a few sarcastic statements and a few rude statements because you think by asking a few embarrassing questions you have imposed your views and converted everyone to "your" side

if i was Muslim you would say that Muhammed is a warlord
if i was a christian you would say that christians are fake
if i was an atheist you would say, wait, what would you say?


well said

[bullzeye.za]

so you guys cant actually be yourselves because you don't know how to "label" me :)...

you guys actually want to throw a few sarcastic statements and a few rude statements because you think by asking a few embarrassing questions you have imposed your views and converted everyone to "your" side

if i was Muslim you would say that Muhammed is a warlord
if i was a christian you would say that christians are fake
if i was an atheist you would say, wait, what would you say?

.. Lance, is that you? Just because you've been banned doesn't mean you need to throw this forum subsection into chaos.

If not, then.. Er, never mind, and I have nothing useful to add, everything's been said in other threads, and I move that this one is discontinued.

[ShaunSA]

he just made a typo - it's not FSM who created them all, it was Xenu.
(seriously...no jokes)

Actually it was The Great Stamp. You and Alloytoo have both failed his test and your destiny is to be stamped for all eternity or until hell freezes over. Whichever comes first.

[murraybiscuit]

so you guys cant actually be yourselves because you don't know how to "label" me :)...

you guys actually want to throw a few sarcastic statements and a few rude statements because you think by asking a few embarrassing questions you have imposed your views and converted everyone to "your" side

if i was Muslim you would say that Muhammed is a warlord
if i was a christian you would say that christians are fake
if i was an atheist you would say, wait, what would you say?

projection reveals more about your mind than the mind of others.

[dantheman]

All the more evolutionary incentive.

pro-evolution i guess...

so how long did it actually take for the people/monkeys/apes/amoeba to first get love making right?
did anyone advise them on how to do it?
or was it trial and error until they "finally" got it right.

im trying to picture making love in an evolutionary state...im sorry i just cant

[Stefanmuller]

Individual human beings are the product of a human sperm fertilizing human Ovum, resulting a new unique example of the species.

Humans (as a species) are great apes, through the processes of random mutation and natural selection we diverged from our closest relatives (Chimpanzees & Bonobos) about 5 million years agos and evolved into modern man.

From what I understand, that is not completely correct. We were never chimpanzees or Bonobos, but all three had a common ancestor that is neither chimpanzee, Bonobos or human. Al three diverged away from this common ancestor, something like Sahelanthropus tchadensis. To know what the origin of humans are, is a interesting question, because it depends exactly when you define something as being human, or more human like than anything else, so then maybe something like Ardipithicus ramidus would be considerd uniquely human ancestor, and is after chimpanzees and bonobos diverted from humans. You can also say that we come from prokaryotes which is true but not uniquely human. So does all other mammals/fish/birds/invertebrates.

Cool link, I would like to read through that sometime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution

[Synaesthesia]

pro-evolution i guess...

so how long did it actually take for the people/monkeys/apes/amoeba to first get love making right?
did anyone advise them on how to do it?
or was it trial and error until they "finally" got it right.

im trying to picture making love in an evolutionary state...im sorry i just cant
4 billions years is a long time.

so you guys cant actually be yourselves because you don't know how to "label" me :)...

you guys actually want to throw a few sarcastic statements and a few rude statements because you think by asking a few embarrassing questions you have imposed your views and converted everyone to "your" side

if i was Muslim you would say that Muhammed is a warlord
if i was a christian you would say that christians are fake
if i was an atheist you would say, wait, what would you say?
Actually no, we're not going to attack you. Although it's clear from the way you say, "evolutionist, huh?" all the time what you believe. It's fine to believe whatever you want to believe. You're entitled to that.

[Nothxkbi]

hey people how is everyone doing?

i would really like someone to answer this question cos some say this and some say that.
isnt there like some team of experts that can decide on this?

i have a possible explanation but would like to hear what the well-educated says on this topic.

I'm sure this topic has been discussed before but thanks for those that would entertain the discussion.
And i know we can discuss it like grown people giving everyone a fair chance and keeping the sarcasm to a bare minimum please.

Dan

"We are the retarded offspring of 5 monkeys having buttsex with a fish squirrel. Congratulations!" :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy5x7BkiCPM :D

[porn$tar]

pro-evolution i guess...

so how long did it actually take for the people/monkeys/apes/amoeba to first get love making right?
did anyone advise them on how to do it?
or was it trial and error until they "finally" got it right.

im trying to picture making love in an evolutionary state...im sorry i just cant

My (friendly) suggestion would be to go and read up a bit about evolution before coming onto a forum to "discuss" and ask non-sensical questions.

Your agenda is clearer now. Save yourself from further embarassment.

[agerbon]

you have to admit though that the male and female species does fit perfectly together while making love :)

So does man and man, but I prefer woman and woman.

The answer to the OP really depends on what you want to hear. Almost every single ancient civilization has their own idea of where humans came from. My personal favorite has to be the Sumerian version. However these are all myths. The biblical version is also just a myth.

I myself am inclined towards evolution. However my real answer is I don't really know. What I do know is that I am here (or should I say we are here).

If I was you I would start with all the myths available. It will probably be a long read but it is interesting to know what ancient and modern myths have to say about humanity. I say start with the myths for they will probably bring some frustration to you and hopefully make you realize how silly some of them are (if not all). When you realize that myths do not actually give any answers with substance. I recommend giving our modern science a chance they might not give you all the answers, but the the answers they do give are answers with substance.

[Synaesthesia]

oh wow

another question for you :)
do you think because you use the word tedious preceded by a few dots(...) i would jump into a rage and then what?

please you are so .... tedious

Your first post said you have a theory. What is that theory? All you're doing is asking questions.

On a side note: would it kill you to punctuate properly and capitalize your sentences?

[Stefanmuller]

Your first post said you have a theory. What is that theory? All you're doing is asking questions.

Good point, would like to hear the theory....

[alloytoo]

From what I understand, that is not completely correct. We were never chimpanzees or Bonobos, but all three had a common ancestor that is neither chimpanzee, Bonobos or human. Al three diverged away from this common ancestor, something like Sahelanthropus tchadensis. To know what the origin of humans are, is a interesting question, because it depends exactly when you define something as being human, or more human like than anything else, so then maybe something like Ardipithicus ramidus would be considerd uniquely human ancestor, and is after chimpanzees and bonobos diverted from humans. You can also say that we come from prokaryotes which is true but not uniquely human. So does all other mammals/fish/birds/invertebrates.

You're right, I didn't make myself particuarly clear.

[Keeper]

so you guys cant actually be yourselves because you don't know how to "label" me :)...

you guys actually want to throw a few sarcastic statements and a few rude statements because you think by asking a few embarrassing questions you have imposed your views and converted everyone to "your" side

if i was Muslim you would say that Muhammed is a warlord
if i was a christian you would say that christians are fake
if i was an atheist you would say, wait, what would you say?

No, not at all - Seriously

It's just like you are asking "Explain the Micro Biological changes in Thermomicrobia Bacteria formed when placing it in Sulfur dioxide, in one word"


If you don't know absolutely ANYTHING about evolution, are you expecting us to explain everything to you? why don't you rather read a book, as suggested, if you are really interested?

To sum it up. early, basic organisms formed, and out of that, more and more complex creatures started forming.

over thousands of years creatures change a little, each and every time. some have bad changes, and die out, others get good changes, live, and evolve further. these are very, very small changes at a time. it takes hundreds, of thousands of years for changes.
after they have changed a lot, they become a different species, and since their dna is then different, they can't mate with other species.

everything you see, plants, animals, birds, fish - we all originated from the same basic organisms that started it all.

We do not come from the monkeys you see today, we are "cousins" of them.

Our Human DNA is only like 15% different then that of a fruit, like a banana (iirc)


click here for a nice little picture of this in action (http://www.dhushara.com/book/unraveltree/life4CK.jpg)

[Synaesthesia]

4 billion years hey :)
where were you when darwin needed you?
but didn't darwin, the founder of the theory of evolution, discredit the actual thought of evolution?
hmmmm

im going out on a limb here :)...did he?
How? I don't believe he did.

[alloytoo]

4 billion years hey :)
where were you when darwin needed you?
but didn't darwin, the founder of the theory of evolution, discredit the actual thought of evolution?
hmmmm

im going out on a limb here :)...did he?

No he didn't, thought I suspect I know which quote you're going to mine.

[wise_guy]

@dantherm.good points.

[murraybiscuit]

pro-evolution i guess...

so how long did it actually take for the people/monkeys/apes/amoeba to first get love making right?
did anyone advise them on how to do it?
or was it trial and error until they "finally" got it right.

im trying to picture making love in an evolutionary state...im sorry i just cant

does all reproduction equate to the human chemical mental feeling of orgasm and the emotion of pleasure?
you seem to view the world through very anthropomorphic lenses.

there are varying methods of reproduction, gestation and birth.
some organisms are capable of self-fertilisation and replication.
some organisms are capable of self- and other-party fertilisation.
some organisms are hermaphroditic.
some rely on external fertilisation and incubation.

and there are other methods beside this, which could be prototypes for human heterosexual reproduction.
there are varying scales of these things. evolution hardly suggests that monkeys dropped from the sky and instantly developed complex social and biological patterns.

[dantheman]

Your first post said you have a theory. What is that theory? All you're doing is asking questions.

On a side note: would it kill you to punctuate properly and capitalize your sentences?

lmao wait wait wait
so the one who believes in the "exploding star" theory and the one who invited me to his room, to show how messy it is obviously, would like me to punctuate and use capitals so that it could be more "organised"

[Ancalagon]

guys please stop feeding the very obvious troll.

@dantheman: dont you have to go to school or something?

[murraybiscuit]

okay dan, to cut a long story short, why do men have nipples?
thanks, cheers.

[Synaesthesia]

lmao wait wait wait
so the one who believes in the "exploding star" theory and the one who invited me to his room, to show how messy it is obviously, would like me to punctuate and use capitals so that it could be more "organised"
Honestly all you're doing is mocking the fact that I believe in the big bang and avoiding everyone's question, which is, what is your theory?

[Synaesthesia]

guys please stop feeding the very obvious troll.
I want to study it's habits.

[porchrat]

im trying to picture making love in an evolutionary state...im sorry i just cant

Of all the stuff this troll has said this is the most confusing.

What the heck is an "evolutionary state"?

[dantheman]

No he didn't, thought I suspect I know which quote you're going to mine.

oh really :) ...actually i know you, you know which quote
and im sure that by now you have already develop an argument against it
maybe it goes something like this:

well darwins quote was taken out of context because he answered the problem he introduced...
so since i gave your "possible" response, would you be so kind to post what darwin so "freely confess absurd in the highest possible degree".

[murraybiscuit]

Of all the stuff this troll has said this is the most confusing.

What the heck is an "evolutionary state"?

the one we're currently in.

[porchrat]

the one we're currently in.

You mean "sitting"?

[Synaesthesia]

I just hate it when people don't get to the point!

[dantheman]

Of all the stuff this troll has said this is the most confusing.

What the heck is an "evolutionary state"?

ooohk i guess porchrat is your intermediary state in evolution :)

[murraybiscuit]

You mean "sitting"?

of course. i spend so long with my butt on the chair every day that i actually wouldn't be surprised if my next kid came out with a chair on its a$$ ;)

[porchrat]

ooohk i guess porchrat is your intermediary state in evolution :)

Who knows. Maybe one day I will evolve into a porch as we know them today...

Seriously though answer me this: what is an "evolutionary state"? I'm interesting in knowing what you meant by that.

[porchrat]

of course. i spend so long with my butt on the chair every day that i actually wouldn't be surprised if my next kid came out with a chair on its a$$ ;)

LOL

My kid will be born with the entire script of "The Matrix" and "Blade Runner" already memorised.

[murraybiscuit]

and @op, please answer my question about why men have nipples.

[agerbon]

oh really :) ...actually i know you, you know which quote
and im sure that by now you have already develop an argument against it
maybe it goes something like this:

well darwins quote was taken out of context because he answered the problem he introduced...
so since i gave your "possible" response, would you be so kind to post what darwin so "freely confess absurd in the highest possible degree".

Even if Darwin's quote was not taken out of context it would not matter much. Evolution can stand on its own feet without Darwin. All the evidence we have today suggests evolution to be true. Has I said earlier science might not give all the answers but the answers it does give are answers with substance.

I don't understand why people have to bring up Darwin at all when speaking about evolution.

[Nerfherder]

4 billion years hey :)
where were you when darwin needed you?
but didn't darwin, the founder of the theory of evolution, discredit the actual thought of evolution?
hmmmm

im going out on a limb here :)...did he?

This comment shows you know nothing about Darwin or evolution. I can see that you are a zelot trying to bait people.

Here are some facts that they didn't teach you a Jesus camp.

Darwin was a religious man and his discoveries tormented him as he realised that they showed that a lot of the things taught by the church are wrong. He was never an atheist and he fought against his atheist friends who wanted to use his work to attack the church. Darwin was also married to a woman who was strongly against his work, in the end even she conceded that his discoveries were something that they should share with the world.
Darwin sat on his research for almost 20 years until some one else came up with a similar more simplistic version of what he had discovered.

Darwin never discredited his own work

[MyView]

and @op, please answer my question about why men have nipples.

Where else would they put their nipple rings?

[alloytoo]

oh really :) ...actually i know you, you know which quote
and im sure that by now you have already develop an argument against it
maybe it goes something like this:

well Darwins quote was taken out of context because he answered the problem he introduced...
so since i gave your "possible" response, would you be so kind to post what darwin so "freely confess absurd in the highest possible degree".

That doesn't invalidate my "possible" response.

It's from chapter six of origin of species:


Organs of extreme perfection and complication. To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree. Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real. How a nerve comes to be sensitive to light, hardly concerns us more than how life itself first originated; but I may remark that several facts make me suspect that any sensitive nerve may be rendered sensitive to light, and likewise to those coarser vibrations of the air which produce sound.http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/the-origin-of-species/chapter-06.html

[alloytoo]

the one we're currently in.

But we're all in different states or provinces.

[wise_guy]

Please read Dr Maurice Bucaille's book The Origin of Man.It presents both the religious and scientific point of view extremely accurately and eloquently.

[Techne]

good point. not sure i'd agree with evolution being compatible with first cause.
Thr first cause as per classical theism is compatible with change (whether it is biological evolution or not is irrelevant really). Change is analysed in terms of substantial change and accidental change. If you were to apply these concept to the theory of evolution, substantial change is analogous to the gradual change of species and adaptation can be analysed in terms of accidental change.



most creation myth doesn't start with an amoeba, it IMO was an attempt to explain how humans arrived on earth in their present state.
i'd say that deism is an exception in that respect (thinking of abrahamic, teutonic, greek and persian creation mythologies for example).
darwin's concepts were pretty different to what i'd regard as "classical theism".
i guess it depends on how you'd define that term...
Classical theism. (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/271845-Classical-Theism)

[dantheman]

Even if Darwin's quote was not taken out of context it would not matter much. Evolution can stand on its own feet without Darwin. All the evidence we have today suggests evolution to be true. Has I said earlier science might not give all the answers but the answers it does give are answers with substance.

I don't understand why people have to bring up Darwin at all when speaking about evolution.

so you only bring up darwin's "origin of the species" when you defend evolution?
otherwise darwin should not be mentioned hey?

[Nerfherder]

so you only bring up darwin's "origin of the species" when you defend evolution?
otherwise darwin should not be mentioned hey?

Darwin is a man, evolution is bigger then him. It existed be fore him and was real before he existed.
He just discovered it.

Just like Newton and gravity...

[agerbon]

so you only bring up darwin's "origin of the species" when you defend evolution?
otherwise darwin should not be mentioned hey?

I don't think you understood what I meant.

The evidence is the only thing required. Evidence that is available to anyone today. There is no need to mention Darwin at all just the evidence. However it is up to you to learn about it.

PS I did not mention anything about origin of the species. I actually thought the book sucked. Sorry.

[spf1007]

Ok I done some more research on this DNA changes that we all might encounter in 2012
Video of DNA changes explained.

Other places I have looked is also very interesting.

Here is the first article Suspected 2012 DNA Change? which gives u the link to the following Cosmic 'DNA': Double Helix Spotted in Space

I mean now that is something very interesting for us to see. I might maybe answer the guys post where does Humans come from. Like in the space u get "Cosmic 'DNA': Double Helix Spotted in Space" and which can also cause some things to mutated and evolve (evolution) until we exist.

Hope I got these things right

This I quoted out of my started thread The Mayan Calendar (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/275110-The-Mayan-Calendar)

These might have something in common.

[porchrat]

Darwin is a man, evolution is bigger then him. It existed be fore him and was real before he existed.
He just discovered it.

Just like Newton and gravity...

Actually some of the stuff he said was not accurate. Modern evolutionary studies rely on a lot more data that Darwin had. To call it Darwinism is I suppose a fair tribute to the man that is known for starting the field off but to argue that what Darwin claimed is what we understand evolution to be now is a little foolish.

[porchrat]

This I quoted out of my started thread The Mayan Calendar (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/275110-The-Mayan-Calendar)

These might have something in common.

DNA doesn't run on a calender as far as I know. :confused:

[spf1007]

DNA doesn't run on a calender as far as I know. :confused:

HAHAHA lol go read the thread u will understand I actually got that via an email ^^

[porchrat]

HAHAHA lol go read the thread u will understand I actually got that via an email ^^

will do :p

[alloytoo]

Actually some of the stuff he said was not accurate. Modern evolutionary studies rely on a lot more data that Darwin had. To call it Darwinism is I suppose a fair tribute to the man that is known for starting the field off but to argue that what Darwin claimed is what we understand evolution to be now is a little foolish.

I think Darwin would have been fascinated and delighted by how far we've come.

[Jonny Two Shoes]

Lets ask a more specific question...

Where do the difference races of human beings come from?

If you can't accept evolution then how do you explain differences in human beings?

I mean to me even some of the monkeys in China look asian :D

[dantheman]

I don't think you understood what I meant.

The evidence is the only thing required. Evidence that is available to anyone today. There is no need to mention Darwin at all just the evidence. However it is up to you to learn about it.

PS I did not mention anything about origin of the species. I actually thought the book sucked. Sorry.

contraire mon frere...
because you use a statement like "i dont think you understand what i meant" you obviously create the impression that we are not on the same level and then use that as your platform to say seemingly nothing but to make it look, to your audience, as though you have said something so powerful.

where would the theory of evolution be if not for darwin? would the mighty porchrat or super master nerf have given such an in-depth study of evolution and concluded "they" come from apes?
where would Islam be without Muhammed?

its like when an atheist quotes a scripture out of the bible and use that as a basis for an argument but when a christian use a bible scripture it gets seen as nonsense?

i was going to include with the question "do you understand" but i would rather you focus on the argument and not what my closing statement would have been implying.

[smokey]

Darwin is a man, evolution is bigger then him. It existed be fore him and was real before he existed.
He just discovered it.

Just like Newton and gravity...

Everyone and their dog knows that it's not called the Theory of Gravity, it's called Newtonism.

[porchrat]

would the mighty porchrat or super master nerf have given such an in-depth study of evolution and concluded "they" come from apes?

I doubt it. Most of my studies have been to do with genetic polymorphisms relating to prostate cancer. This is why we have divisions in the scientific community for the different disciplines today.

As to this:

because you use a statement like "i dont think you understand what i meant" you obviously create the impression that we are not on the same level and then use that as your platform to say seemingly nothing but to make it look, to your audience, as though you have said something so powerful.

Do you really think he said nothing?

I understood his post to mean that while Darwin's contribution was important, the evidence we have today has moved beyond what Darwin first set out to explain with his investigations and this modern evidence is what is truly important.

[Jonny Two Shoes]

Google asian monkeys and look at their eyes. Am I right or wrong? Seriously though is it just me or do they look slightly asian?

Google african monkeys and notice the difference.

[Nothxkbi]

contraire mon frere...
because you use a statement like "i dont think you understand what i meant" you obviously create the impression that we are not on the same level and then use that as your platform to say seemingly nothing but to make it look, to your audience, as though you have said something so powerful.

where would the theory of evolution be if not for darwin? would the mighty porchrat or super master nerf have given such an in-depth study of evolution and concluded "they" come from apes?
where would Islam be without Muhammed?

its like when an atheist quotes a scripture out of the bible and use that as a basis for an argument but when a christian use a bible scripture it gets seen as nonsense?

i was going to include with the question "do you understand" but i would rather you focus on the argument and not what my closing statement would have been implying.

Look, cut the crap. Get a book on evolution and quit whinging like a little girl.

[smokey]

Lets ask a more specific question...

Where do the difference races of human beings come from?

If you can't accept evolution then how do you explain differences in human beings?

I mean to me even some of the monkeys in China look asian :D

My high school Religious Education teacher told us (no jokes) that the Babylonians were wicked good with genetic manipulation and that they made mermaids and minotaurs and stuff. I guess they just made some of the Semitic people darker and others lighter and yet others kind of olivey with slanted eyes. She was leet.

[porn$tar]

Look, cut the crap. Get a book on evolution and quit whinging like a little girl.

I suggested this, but it's clear she's not interested in learning anything.

[porn$tar]

My high school Religious Education teacher told us (no jokes) that the Babylonians were wicked good with genetic manipulation and that they made mermaids and minotaurs and stuff. I guess they just made some of the Semitic people darker and others lighter and yet others kind of olivey with slanted eyes. She was leet.

You watch too much South Park.

[Stefanmuller]

Google asian monkeys and look at their eyes. Am I right or wrong? Seriously though is it just me or do they look slightly asian?

Google african monkeys and notice the difference.

LOL!!! Yes, in fact they do look asian. Weird. Very different from the african ones. Though I do think that race in humans are a much more recent change that is primarily caused by climate differences. With the asian/african monkeys, there will be deeper genetic differences such as them belonging to different species or subspecies.

[dantheman]

Google asian monkeys and look at their eyes. Am I right or wrong? Seriously though is it just me or do they look slightly asian?

Google african monkeys and notice the difference.

i see we have a few monkeys/apes that havent "evolved" yet...
if the comments in this thread is anything to go by then we shouldnt expect anything better from them in say...the next 4 million years...

[murraybiscuit]

thanks @techne for the earlier link. i'll check it out.

[copacetic]

It is inane threads like this, where the OP (no offence) has not the slightest inclination to actually learn something.

This is the reason there has been talk of some sort of community moderation input.

But anyway, you folk want to feed obvious trolling, go ahead, I know it can occasionally be amusing.

[dantheman]

ok people from what i can gather all are basically pro-evolution, except for me and one other guy...

would it be fine if i ask the evolutionists a few questions that i have...but please i and everyone else would appreciate decent answers

[copacetic]

In fact, we know where human beings come from. Why is this not in the natural sciences section? There is no debate about this particular question, unless MyBB has some sort of weird anti-science policy I don't know about.

This is cluttering up PD.

[Keeper]

...but please i and everyone else would appreciate decent answers

Fair enough, ask away.

I seriously thought this thread was a joke, sorry...

[porchrat]

ok people from what i can gather all are basically pro-evolution, except for me and one other guy...

would it be fine if i ask the evolutionists a few questions that i have...but please i and everyone else would appreciate decent answers

Decent answers? You mean like this one where you insult people:


i see we have a few monkeys/apes that havent "evolved" yet...
if the comments in this thread is anything to go by then we shouldnt expect anything better from them in say...the next 4 million years...

No I don't think so.

[dantheman]

It is inane threads like this, where the OP (no offence) has not the slightest inclination to actually learn something.

This is the reason there has been talk of some sort of community moderation input.

But anyway, you folk want to feed obvious trolling, go ahead, I know it can occasionally be amusing.

so because the OP does not "yes grand master, pls grand master, teach me" attitude or he's not learning anything from "you" then he doesnt have the "slightest inclination to actually learn something"?

what if the OP is learning how evolutionists think and how they respond to ideas.

[porchrat]

what if the OP is learning how evolutionists think and how they respond to ideas.

Then I would say the OP was being dishonest as this was not revealed in the OP.

[dantheman]

Fair enough, ask away.

I seriously thought this thread was a joke, sorry...

thanks man ...
and im sorry for what i said porchrat, sorry for those comments...
i know it was childish...

promise i wont stoop so low again

[copacetic]

so because the OP does not "yes grand master, pls grand master, teach me" attitude or he's not learning anything from "you" then he doesnt have the "slightest inclination to actually learn something"?

what if the OP is learning how evolutionists think and how they respond to ideas.

Your opening post:


hey people how is everyone doing?

i would really like someone to answer this question cos some say this and some say that.
isnt there like some team of experts that can decide on this?

i have a possible explanation but would like to hear what the well-educated says on this topic.

I'm sure this topic has been discussed before but thanks for those that would entertain the discussion.
And i know we can discuss it like grown people giving everyone a fair chance and keeping the sarcasm to a bare minimum please.

Dan

There is a team of experts, every reputable scientist in the world, basically.

What do you want from us? There is a vast, vast amount of resources if you wish to learn about evolution, starting in the natural sciences section.

If you wish to talk about something other than evolution, then tell us what that is so we may discuss it.

Otherwise, what is this about?

[Nerfherder]

so because the OP does not "yes grand master, pls grand master, teach me" attitude or he's not learning anything from "you" then he doesnt have the "slightest inclination to actually learn something"?

what if the OP is learning how evolutionists think and how they respond to ideas.

Oh dude... get over yourself. Those titles are added by the forum automatically after a certain amount of posts.

[porchrat]

Otherwise, what is this about?
.

what if the OP is learning how evolutionists think and how they respond to ideas.

[copacetic]

.

Then it would make sense for him to articulate an idea for us 'evolutionists' (:rolleyes:) to respond to then?

Just a notion.

[porchrat]

Then it would make sense for him to articulate an idea for us 'evolutionists' (:rolleyes:) to respond to then?

Just a notion.

It would also make sense to be honest about the intentions from the beginning and not lie but this is a troll we're talking about man.

[copacetic]

It would also make sense to be honest about the intentions from the beginning and not lie but this is a troll we're talking about man.

Yep.

Thread reported.

*edit*

Well, actually I technically reported my own post.

:o

[porchrat]

Yep.

Thread reported.

*edit*

Well, actually I technically reported my own post.

:o

ROFLMAO it would be epically funny if you ended up with an infraction.

[bwana]

This thread offers no nutritional value.

If anyone wishes to argue a case for reopening it please feel free to PM me.