Is the grass really greener in Australia?

[Chris]

I know this is an opinion piece but there a few things that seem rather strange:

(1) He seems to think that the police enforcing the law is a "bad" thing. I'm not sure how he came to that conclusion.

(2) He claims that people are promoted in SA due to hard-work yet most people know that this is not entirely the case, especially when companies need to tick some boxes to fulfill BEE criteria.

(3) He fails to account for the differences in the buying power of the Aussie $. Of course you are paying more if you convert it into rands, but you're also earning more in terms of Rands.

(4) He fails to mention a lack of crime as a positive in Australia.


I moved out here 2.5 years ago and while I’ve seen a lot of comments about this topic, I don’t believe anyone has really hit the nail on the head! In case you’re wondering, I’m not writing in to explain why I left South Africa. I have my reasons and I’m keeping them to myself. The reason for writing in is to share my experiences with you and let you know what you’re in for if you are planning to move out here.

Let me start off by saying that my intention with this article is not to speak badly about South Africa. I love my country, anyone who knows me will attest to this. It was home for 25 years and while everyone was leaving pre 1994 (my family included), I was there until early 2008.

I believe the last 10 years have been phenomenal for SA and the future holds a lot of potential. As such, I will continue to promote and support it as much as I can. I subscribe to The Good News website and where possible, I share everything positive about our great country. Since leaving, I’ve been back a couple of times, including being there for the SWC. I had the pleasure of being at the playoffs in PE (Germany versus Uruguay) and was extremely proud of the awesome tournament we put together. It was great to see us welcome the world and I was really fortunate to experience the vibe and to be a part of the first ever FIFA tournament on African soil.

My background: I’ve been in the IT industry for the past 16 years. While in SA, I held many senior roles and was extremely successful in my field. This track record allowed me to cement myself in my chosen field and as such, I never had to apply for a job. Due to this, I was able to have a very comfortable lifestyle that allowed me to own a cluster home in Fourways, drive a BMW and pretty much live a privileged life.

While I don’t regret my decision to leave, I think it’s important to set the record straight. I did a lot of research before I moved out here but no research can beat real life experiences. You only really know what you’re in for once you actually live in a country. While I understand that each person’s experience may be different due to a number of reasons, the following relates to everyone who is considering this move:

Salary Increases - In SA, I was accustomed to getting a salary increase every year. If times were tough, the least I’d expect was an increase in line with inflation. Imagine how surprised I was to not get an increase when I over achieved my target by 40%! I checked with a number of other overachievers and guess what? Some hadn’t received an increase in five years. Unemployment is at five percent so companies don’t really have to be aggressive with salaries as there aren’t that many jobs available. This of course doesn’t mean that day to day expenses like food, utilities, petrol, etc get any cheaper! These are always going up.

Rent - As I said before, I had my own cluster home in SA. If you’ve lived in one of these or a townhouse before, you will agree with me when I say that we build them nice and large in SA, which meant always appreciating the ability to escape to them after a long hard day. Unfortunately, Australia hardly has any of these. In fact, most of their architecture is Georgian or Victorian terraces (inner Sydney) and if you’d like something similar to a cluster home or townhouse, get ready to pay in excess of $1 000 rent a week. If you want to purchase one, the price could be anything between $ 1.5m and $3m. As I write this, the exchange rate between Australia and SA is currently R 6.70 so do the maths...it’s a fortune!

Food - My partner and I spend $1 000 a month on food (booze included)! There are only two of us, so I’d hate to know what it would cost us if we had kids. This doesn’t mean that we snack on caviar every night or drink Moet champagne. We have three meals a day like anybody else, including packing lunch for work as that could easily cost us $10 to $15 a day if we ate out at food courts. I find this extremely expensive when compared to SA. The most I spent back home was R2 000 a month.

Daycare - If you have children, get ready for the shock of your life. Unlike SA, where most families I know leave their kids with their housekeeper during the day, here it costs $120 a day to leave them at a daycare centre! As such, most couples land up sacrificing one salary as a parent lands up staying at home to bring up their child.

Rules/Laws - While I always felt that Police or Traffic Officers didn’t enforce these enough in SA, I think the Australian government goes overboard in this regard! For one, there are cameras everywhere. If you are caught speeding, you not only get fined but you get points deducted from your licence. Once you reach 12 points, you lose your licence. A fine for speeding costs four points so once you reach the 12 points, you will lose your licence for six months. Besides fines, I’ve also been approached at a bar after three beers. I was asked if I was okay to drive and if I decided to stay, would I be a problem later. Needless to say, I didn’t stay.

South Africans are considered arrogant - This has been the toughest lesson for me. I believe South Africans are entrepreneurial in nature and therefore, ambitious. As such, we have an opinion about everything and won’t hesitate to share it. I’ve unfortunately learnt the hard way that this isn’t acceptable here. You must quickly learn that it’s their way or the highway. As such, keep your opinions to yourself. The attitude here is very relaxed and the term “no worries” applies to everything they do in life. Check out this article for further details in this regard.

Promotions at work - if you were good at your job in SA, you were recognised and promoted. Not here! They have this term - “Fair go” - which basically means that if I have 16 years of experience and you have three to five years of experience, we are considered equal and therefore, could easily earn the same salary. Based on this, it’s tough to get ahead as you are all equal.

Doctors - We’ve been to many and have been extremely disappointed. Fifteen minutes costs you between $50 and $60. Anything more and it’s considered double time! Forget getting a check up like I was used to in SA where they always checked throat, ears, nose, etc. Here, they listen to you and in some cases, check the internet for a solution (yes, we’ve caught them doing this!). As such, we’ve stopped going as it’s a waste of money.

Average salary - Hopefully, you've added up all of the above and realised that you need to earn a decent salary to live in this country. While the average salary is recorded at $50 000 per annum, I think you need $150 000 to live comfortably in Australia.

While the above may all be negatives about Australia, the following I believe are all positive:

Politics - There is no dominant political party in Australia. In fact, during the last elections, they had a hung parliament so the population was clearly telling them that they were not happy with either party. Imagine that happening in SA.

Pension - Here it’s called Superannuation and basically, every employer that hires you needs to contribute 9% of your annual salary towards pension. The difference between SA and here: it goes into an investment account and you can only access it when you turn 65 years old.

Medical care - While the doctors leave much to be desired, basic medical care is covered by the government. As we are on temporary visas, we don’t get access to this so it lands up costing us a fortune every time we see a doctor. However, once you are a permanent resident, annual checks ups are all covered by government.

Public transport - Extensive! Trains, buses, cabs...it’s all available and affordable.

I hope this information has been useful. While I’ve travelled extensively, this is the first time I’ve really lived in another country and it’s really made me appreciate what I had back in SA. The only advice I can give you: enjoy it while you can! And think long and hard about your move. While there are similarities, I’m sure the above has highlighted many differences.

PS. I miss home!

Source: News 24 (http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/YourStory/Is-the-grass-really-greener-in-Aus-20101012)

[cbrunsdonza]

Actually the the COP issue is a big thing in Australia from what I've heard from my family there (they have lived there since 1980). But besides that, this guy did seem to be a fence sitter and trying to find reasons why he must come back to South Africa.

No country is perfect, but Australias problems are nowhere as life threatening as ours.

[Alan]

I agree sounds like he's trying to find excuses to justify coming back. I have a friend visiting who moved to NZ a few years ago. He certainly ain't moving back. I recall one woman complaining because people crossed roads at Zebra crossings, obeyed traffic laws and the place was "too clean". She called that "boring" *facepalm*



Forget getting a check up like I was used to in SA where they always checked throat, ears, nose, etc. Here, they listen to you and in some cases, check the internet for a solution (yes, we’ve caught them doing this!). As such, we’ve stopped going as it’s a waste of money.

How is that any different to here :confused:

[rorz0r]

Nice to see a nice honest article. Not the "omg it's so awesome over here! my decision was the best decision I ever made".

[xrapidx]

Policing was a bit annoying over there... I almost got two fines, one for falling a sleep on the train (or something similiar) - went over my zone by one stop - and one for walking on the grass :p

[Billy]

I think that the article is well balanced. Crime is not unknown in Australia, http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_bur_percap-crime-burglaries-per-capita. another gold medal.
SA has a violent crime problem, on other crime such as car theft, housebreaking, kidnaps, etc. a lot of western countries are worse.
I have visited Australia and upon my return said to my wife, "We can cross Australia off the list". (Also at a later date Canada).
My brother-in-law has lived in Australia and New Zealand for 25 years. Currently in Australia. He is looking at retiring to SA as he doubts that he will be able to afford to in Australia.

The grass is indeed greener, but in South Africa!

[MaryJane]

Salary Increases - In SA, I was accustomed to getting a salary increase every year. If times were tough, the least I’d expect was an increase in line with inflation. Imagine how surprised I was to not get an increase when I over achieved my target by 40%! I checked with a number of other overachievers and guess what? Some hadn’t received an increase in five years. Unemployment is at five percent so companies don’t really have to be aggressive with salaries as there aren’t that many jobs available. This of course doesn’t mean that day to day expenses like food, utilities, petrol, etc get any cheaper! These are always going up.

I have not received an increase in almost 2 years. Think he needs to readjust this opinion. It's funny that the Auz Government is actually encouraging immigration to fill short skilled areas to curb hyper-inflation of salaries.


Average salary - Hopefully, you've added up all of the above and realised that you need to earn a decent salary to live in this country. While the average salary is recorded at $50 000 per annum, I think you need $150 000 to live comfortably in Australia.

Of course a family will not be "comfortable" on $50 000 per year in Auz. Labour is EXTREMELY expensive in Auz (as you will see from the medical and day care fees). People get paid $20 per hour to fold jeans or work at MacDonalds for crying out loud. However, a family of 4 people can live relatively comfortable on $80 000 per year.

Edit: for comprehension fail.

[phoneJunky]

Politics are under positives...

[Gushesh]

Everyplace has negatives and positives, like in SA we have excellent weather but the crime rate is high.
The same with Aus, UK, Canada etc etc. Before you go over you need to evaluate what you want out of life, what SA offers you and what your new destination might offer (as best you can).

Also, you need to be open to change and experiencing new things, no country will be exactly the same as SA, thats exactly the reason why you are looking at moving in the first place...for a change.
He seems to "leave out" one very important point, unless i missed it in the article, lifestyle! Aus has a completely different lifestyle to SA, just like a lot of people move to EU countries for the lifestyle they have there.

He seems to be looking for reasons to come back, if thats the case he should quite complaining and just come back.
I doubt he would be complaining if he had Aus permanent residence.

[Garyvdh]

Hmm, I wonder when last he was in SA. Things have most certainly gotten a bit more expensive here since then.

[noxibox]

Australia has far fewer murders and about two thirds our rape rate, but otherwise they have plenty of crime. Australia is becoming an ever more regimented country and they've gone from being stupid in one direction with alcohol to being stupid in the opposite direction. In some places their speed limits are ridiculously low. Housing and a lot of other things are very expensive there. Housing costs versus income is going to depend where you live just like South Africa though (historically living in Cape Town meant lower incomes and higher house prices than Johannesburg). It is right to warn people that the grass is not necessarily greener. As with the UK, Canada, etc, some people will find themselves earning more while others are actually worse off than in South Africa. One thing the UK, Canada and Australia have though is functioning national health cover.

[rorz0r]

Hmm, I wonder when last he was in SA. Things have most certainly gotten a bit more expensive here since then.

He mentions the world cup so probably then unless he visits every month or something...

[analogsa]

R2000 per month on food??? For two?? When was that? R7000 is much more likely at present.

[Grhardt]

Of course, South Africa is better. Where als can you fire a few rounds in the middle of town at midnight, without anyone bothering you. Ok ok Somalia is even better. If you reeeally want to have freedom, go there. You might end up having so much freedom and absolute peace, you won't know what to do with it :D I like that part where he claims 'in South Africa if you are good in your job you'll get promoted'. Obviously we are not of the same 'wave length'. In which case SA is indeed better for him . . .

[Skywalker42]

R2000 per month on food??? For two?? When was that? R7000 is much more likely at present.

R7000 /2 = R 3500 pp = R116 per day per person.

What's on your menu. ???

You can eat healthy at MUCH LESS than that.

[Chris]

R7000 /2 = R 3500 pp = R116 per day per person.

What's on your menu. ???

You can eat healthy at MUCH LESS than that.

For breakfast, lunch and supper even with snacks in between? You'd be pushing the R116/day barrier. If one were to go to Kauai and have a 'Cheese melt' and 500ml apple juice, the cost would be around R40 - and that's just for lunch. Now I know Kauai wouldn't be a 'typical' lunch, but even at the lower-end, it'd be around R25-R30.

[analogsa]

Cheese melt? You're kidding me. We eat what we consider a healthy, high protein, low saturated fat diet. Kinglip/trout/beef fillet for lunch with lots of fruit and veggies. Similar smaller meals throughout the day. Absolutely no junk food. Don't count eating out or alchohol as this will easily top the 7k. Food prices in SA are now higher than most places in EU and practically all countries in Asia. Lots of this has to do with the rand and the inherent lack of competition in SA retail.

[Zukat]

R7000 /2 = R 3500 pp = R116 per day per person.

What's on your menu. ???

You can eat healthy at MUCH LESS than that.

Im a bachelor and I do eat wimpy and steers from time to time, but overall try to maintain a healthy food plan and I spend +/-R100 per day for 4 meals a day, so for a month will be around R3000 not including some going out with friends on weekends as an additional expenses. I would love to hear your healthy meal plan at much less


PS Just read an article on news24 and it was calculated that R274 per day per prisoner in SA jails was spent for 2009, thats R8220 per month, how about that for a menu of a person who disobeyed the law?!

[genetic]

R2000 per month on food??? For two?? When was that? R7000 is much more likely at present.

:eek: You must live like an Egyptian king if you spend R7000 a month on food for two!!!

[Gushesh]

Did i miss something in the article or did the author mess up his timelines?
He says SA has been his home for 25 years and he left 2.5 years ago.
That would make him 27.5 years old, yet he states he has been in the IT industry for 16 years. That would mean he was 11.5 when he started working?

[TheGuy]

Did i miss something in the article or did the author mess up his timelines?
He says SA has been his home for 25 years and he left 2.5 years ago.
That would make him 27.5 years old, yet he states he has been in the IT industry for 16 years. That would mean he was 11.5 when he started working?

Maybe he wasn't born in SA

My sister and her husband just received the Aus passports. I really think life is what you make of it. Moving to another place really does suck in the beginning but if you get through the first 6 months things start to get easier then it's up to you to make it happen.

[evilsee]

R2000 per month on food??? For two?? When was that? R7000 is much more likely at present.

What the hell are you eating. Must be buying ready made meals from Woolworth or something. Eating out a lot?

[Gushesh]

Maybe he wasn't born in SA



That is a possibility

[ToxicBunny]

R7000 per month for two for food is madness..

I know someone with 3 kids.. and their food bill is R7000 for the whole family for the month, and they eat BLOODY well.....

[proximiti99]

Was there 2 weeks back for over a week. The only thing we found to be 'cheap' were cars. Everything else is expensive. A decent 3/4 bed house averages around 700 to 800k Aus $. We shopped at Woolworths in Sydney and spent the equivalent of Rands for basic stuff. In other words some snacks, cool drinks, body lotion, magazines, costs the same in Rands if we bought them here. So it works out much more in Aus dollars.
Sydney is very cool though, very clean and organized. But I don't think I would move just yet.

[Gargmel]

R2000 per month on food??? For two?? When was that? R7000 is much more likely at present.

Madness!! We are 3 adults (2 men and a woman) and a baby, even with all the baby stuff our food bill a month is between 3000 and 4000, normally closer to 3000...

[Molokai]

The reality is that once you leave, living in a crime free environment starts to become the norm. You then start noticing other less relevant issues which you may not have had back in SA, or just never noticed them while living in SA. To me, crime was the number 1 factor that drove me to leave, and as long as my family is safer here returning to SA will never be an option.

Of course there are heaps of problems here too, but I have proved to myself over and over again that leaving SA was the best decision I could have ever made for my family. Every visit back to SA is more of a shock than the previous. I don’t think this guy visits SA enough. I have always said that if things improve in SA and I can see a future there for my kids I shall return. I think this guys problem is the simple fact that he is just struggling to integrate into Australia. He is just another one of those arrogant better than everybody else Safas. Australia and New Zealand is full of them.

[alloytoo]

The grocery bill seems excessive (must be a lot of booze).

Low inflation rates in Oz and NZ mean low increases, South Africans are just used to decades of high inflation boosting increases however low unemployment means that companies are concerned with keeping skilled staff, and are also concerned with their image as employers, so job hopping carries little stigma and can boost your income.

The grass is definately greener in the pacific rim, I know because cut the damn stuff.

[Norm!]

Maybe he wasn't born in SA

My sister and her husband just received the Aus passports. I really think life is what you make of it. Moving to another place really does suck in the beginning but if you get through the first 6 months things start to get easier then it's up to you to make it happen.

I don't really think the first few month suck. What is difficult is the shock of your world shrinking and getting used to that world. Its all good though and it depends on what you make of it. Thats my take anyway. I know this thread is about Australia, but, Canada in my opinion is way cheaper and the salaries way more. Again, i think it differs from place to place or province to province. I have family in Australia and New Zealand and they all this its cheaper than SA.

[Norm!]

I agree with your entire post. There are loads in Canada returning because there simply refuse to adapt. Moving is the best decision we could ever have made and for any person that leaves, my advise. Dont look for ways to compare, it isnt the same. Just go with the flow of the new country your going to adopt.


The reality is that once you leave, living in a crime free environment starts to become the norm. You then start noticing other less relevant issues which you may not have had back in SA, or just never noticed them while living in SA. To me, crime was the number 1 factor that drove me to leave, and as long as my family is safer here returning to SA will never be an option.

Of course there are heaps of problems here too, but I have proved to myself over and over again that leaving SA was the best decision I could have ever made for my family. Every visit back to SA is more of a shock than the previous. I don’t think this guy visits SA enough. I have always said that if things improve in SA and I can see a future there for my kids I shall return. I think this guys problem is the simple fact that he is just struggling to integrate into Australia. He is just another one of those arrogant better than everybody else Safas. Australia and New Zealand is full of them.

[Grhardt]

How much do you chaps pay for security in South Africa? Alarms, electrical fence, security company etc etc. I read somewhere on the net, in South Africa the private security has a bigger annual budged then the police ! ! ! Yet with all that, we keep on reading about gruesome murders, rapes, robberys etc etc. When I visited SA during the world cup, my host and good friend, proudly showed me how well trained was his 11 years old daughter in handeling a home robbery situation ! ! ! At night the living and sleeping areas are divided by a metal gate ! Yes you read correct. They lock themself up inside their own home. The alarm is switched on. Electrical fence is on. Perimeter beams are on. Infrared sensors are on. If someone manages to get thru, the daughter locks herself in the room and openes when her mom or dad gives the 'all clear' signal. OMG and yes even so they have been house robbed once :D WTF And he is armed too with a real 9mm pistol. With armed response patrol guards at his disposal. Please MODS do not delete this post ! This was really what I saw in South Africa (Craighall Parc, Jhb) - no kidding . . .

[phoneJunky]

Well, my food bill is about R600 a month (and sometimes way less than that if I want to save that month). If you buy ready made food your bill is always going to be high. Last year I went to a dietitian and we work out a menu that would fit my needs and it really works out cheap to eat healthy. But then again, the meal that I buy at work is subsidized by our company.

And I have no security like what you described Grhardt, I know it is probably true, but some people just take it overboard. And the house I grew up in has been robbed twice in the 80's and once in the nineties and none since. I do have burglar bars, spot lights and a security gate (if that is the right word) in front of my doors but that is about it.

[Jola]

How much do you chaps pay for security in South Africa? Alarms, electrical fence, security company etc etc. I read somewhere on the net, in South Africa the private security has a bigger annual budged then the police ! ! ! Yet with all that, we keep on reading about gruesome murders, rapes, robberys etc etc. When I visited SA during the world cup, my host and good friend, proudly showed me how well trained was his 11 years old daughter in handeling a home robbery situation ! ! ! At night the living and sleeping areas are divided by a metal gate ! Yes you read correct. They lock themself up inside their own home. The alarm is switched on. Electrical fence is on. Perimeter beams are on. Infrared sensors are on. If someone manages to get thru, the daughter locks herself in the room and openes when her mom or dad gives the 'all clear' signal. OMG and yes even so they have been house robbed once :D WTF And he is armed too with a real 9mm pistol. With armed response patrol guards at his disposal. Please MODS do not delete this post ! This was really what I saw in South Africa (Craighall Parc, Jhb) - no kidding . . .

Describes my house accurately - except that you forgot about the security cameras.

Doesn't help, though, they still break through all of that you just get a little warning.

Oh, and this is in one of the better suburbs in Joburg.

[Archer]

How much do you chaps pay for security in South Africa? Alarms, electrical fence, security company etc etc. I read somewhere on the net, in South Africa the private security has a bigger annual budged then the police ! ! ! Yet with all that, we keep on reading about gruesome murders, rapes, robberys etc etc. When I visited SA during the world cup, my host and good friend, proudly showed me how well trained was his 11 years old daughter in handeling a home robbery situation ! ! ! At night the living and sleeping areas are divided by a metal gate ! Yes you read correct. They lock themself up inside their own home. The alarm is switched on. Electrical fence is on. Perimeter beams are on. Infrared sensors are on. If someone manages to get thru, the daughter locks herself in the room and openes when her mom or dad gives the 'all clear' signal. OMG and yes even so they have been house robbed once :D WTF And he is armed too with a real 9mm pistol. With armed response patrol guards at his disposal. Please MODS do not delete this post ! This was really what I saw in South Africa (Craighall Parc, Jhb) - no kidding . . .

I know many people who have live without incident their whole lives with ZERO security in their home. You only hear about the bad stuff...

[Albereth]

I know many people who have live without incident their whole lives with ZERO security in their home. You only hear about the bad stuff...

If bad stuff only happened once every 10 years, say (and even that is way too much) we wouldn't need to live with any security.

I also doubt that you know anyone with ZERO security. I could understand not having the electric fences and guard towers but I think they will have a lock on the front door and bars on the windows.

[the graduate]

He forgot to mention that WHITE people make the decisions....should count as a "BEEEGG pozeetiev"....

[Palimino]

R7000 /2 = R 3500 pp = R116 per day per person.

What's on your menu. ???

You can eat healthy at MUCH LESS than that.

I agree. R7000/month is ridiculous. I have a family of 5, with 3 big adult sons who eat like horses. Our food bill doesn’t approach that.

[Jola]

I know many people who have live without incident their whole lives with ZERO security in their home. You only hear about the bad stuff...

And then other people get hit twice in a week.

Statistics 0.5 - Law of Averages.

[UnUnOctium]

Describes my house accurately - except that you forgot about the security cameras.

Doesn't help, though, they still break through all of that you just get a little warning.

Oh, and this is in one of the better suburbs in Joburg.

I believe that's your problem ;)


And then other people get hit twice in a week.

Statistics 0.5 - Law of Averages.

Statistics 1 - No such law. Only law of large numbers, if they have lived their whole lives without incident, one can get a correct assumption that the probability of an incident happening will be very low.

[BBSA]

He forgot to mention that WHITE people make the decisions....should count as a "BEEEGG pozeetiev"....

No so sure about that, but it would help if the decision makers were educated.

[the graduate]

No so sure about that, but it would help if the decision makers were educated.

well first clean up your own backyard....bro...

[BBSA]

well first clean up your own backyard....bro...

I'm not a decision maker... dude

[Nod]

well first clean up your own backyard....bro...
/OT

Obnoxious partying males who are often seen at college parties. When they aren’t making an ass of themselves they usually just stand around holding a red plastic cup waiting for something exciting to happen so they can scream something that demonstrates how much they enjoy partying. Nearly everyone in a fraternity is a bro but there are also many bros who are not in a fraternity. They often wear a rugby shirt and a baseball cap. It is not uncommon for them to have spiked hair with frosted tips. Bros actually chose this name for themselves as they often refer to each other as "bro" even though they are not related. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bro)

[cbrunsdonza]

...Crime is not unknown in Australia,...

Agree 100%

My sister experienced more crime in Australia than in South Africa. Even my mother who lives in the Outback was complaining about the high rate of car theft. Their town compares to Pofadder (size & geographics) yet Pofadder only had one car theft (December) in over a decade - got family living in Pofadder and it was their car stolen. Cops told my brother in laws to come back when he was sober when he reported it.

The only difference between SA and the rest of the old colony, is the level of violence.



The grass is indeed greener, but in South Africa!

The grass is still greener here for me. I still live in South Africa out of love for this country. I hope things improve that my children can continue to live in this country.

[Jola]

... if they have lived their whole lives without incident, one can get a correct assumption that the probability of an incident happening will be very low.

Nope, each time that you flip a coin the chance of heads is still 50%, irrespective of the history. They can get hit next week.

With the violence of many of these house invasions, you only need a single hit for it to be all over ...

[Archer]

If bad stuff only happened once every 10 years, say (and even that is way too much) we wouldn't need to live with any security.

I also doubt that you know anyone with ZERO security. I could understand not having the electric fences and guard towers but I think they will have a lock on the front door and bars on the windows.

Ok fine, they lock the front door and close their windows. But no fence, no gates, nothing on the windows, no alarm. I was just pointing out that what that person was referring to was a bit extreme, and there are plenty of people out there living the other extreme quite comfortably.

[Wikkelspies]

I know this is an opinion piece but there a few things that seem rather strange:

(1) He seems to think that the police enforcing the law is a "bad" thing. I'm not sure how he came to that conclusion.

(2) He claims that people are promoted in SA due to hard-work yet most people know that this is not entirely the case, especially when companies need to tick some boxes to fulfill BEE criteria.

(3) He fails to account for the differences in the buying power of the Aussie $. Of course you are paying more if you convert it into rands, but you're also earning more in terms of Rands.

(4) He fails to mention a lack of crime as a positive in Australia.


Source: http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/YourStory/Is-the-grass-really-greener-in-Aus-20101012
Just another big fish from a small pond who's finding it hard to adapt to the ocean.

Don't expect to arrive in Australia from anywhere, unless you're seriously cashed up, and compete with the big end of town. Remember that, if Australia was the same as South Africa, you wouldn't want to go there ... at least only for long enough as it took to take in the national parks. ;)

[Fuma]

Where I come from I can leave my house open the whole months, car keys in my car the whole month and nothing will happen.
So it depends which area of SA we are talking about. SA is not only about Gauteng you know.

[jouda]

The grass isnt much greener, but I hear the sheep are a lot easier :D

[Lino]

R2000 per month on food??? For two?? When was that? R7000 is much more likely at present.

R7000 a month???? WTF do you eat? Yes I know thats for two people but still!

[Wikkelspies]

Our man from Oz, the homesick one, must have been commissioned to write that article for the Homecoming Revolution; not that I have anything but praise for the aims of that organisation.

Sadly this thread displays the usual combination of ignorance and prejudice I have come to expect from my fellow South Africans when talking about another country, especially one that only a few seem to have any first hand knowledge of. It is reminiscent of the mental laager of the apartheid era, when we routinely ran down other countries and referred to people who were emigrating as chicken runners, taking the gap, etc.

There is more than one webforum devoted to the pleasure and pain of living and working in another country, perhaps with the aim of eventually making it your home. Anyone wishing to ask questions or sample a wider range of opinion would to well to look there. I see this thread, as so many threads tend to do, eventually generating more heat than light.
http://www.saaustralia.org

In this age of internet search engines there is no excuse for ignorance about anything. ;)

[Wikkelspies]

I don't really think the first few month suck. What is difficult is the shock of your world shrinking and getting used to that world. Its all good though and it depends on what you make of it. Thats my take anyway. I know this thread is about Australia, but, Canada in my opinion is way cheaper and the salaries way more. Again, i think it differs from place to place or province to province. I have family in Australia and New Zealand and they all this its cheaper than SA.


Canada is fine if you don't mind sub zero temps eight months out of twelve. More progressive in some ways than Oz but, with a climate like that, they have no choice but to work smarter ... and harder. Its all relative. At least in Australia wait staff get paid a decent wage and no one touts for tips.

Its the fact that Aussies, for the most part, neither tip nor expect tips that provides real insight into what a true democracy Australia is. Equality is taken seriously, and that may be why some Saffies come across as arrogant. Treat an Aussie like an equal, and you've a mate for life. Treat an Aussie like an inferior, and you'll not get far ... let alone get served. ;)

[zippy]

R2000 per month on food??? For two?? When was that? R7000 is much more likely at present.

What on earth are you buying ?

My monthly groceries in the UK varies between £90 and £130 per month per person depending on when I need to stock up with cleaning mats. That includes red meat which is supposed to be so expensive in the UK....

[theratman]

I feel so poor knowing that there are people spending R7000 on food for two people.Thats 3.5k out of my salary every month...WTF.I live with my gf and we spend around 1500k on food a month.We cook often and will eat out maybe 3-4 times a month but that is not in the 1.5k.I don't count eating out in my budget because its a luxury.

[analogsa]

Just put it down on paper and it actually appears to be slightly more than 7k... My intention was certainly not to start a discussion on frugal dieting but merely to point out the fact that SA is no longer a cheap place by any standard. Earlier this year, while on a trip, we found out that grocery shopping for a similar basket of goods is about 25% cheaper in France. Eating out is certainly a completely different story though.

[cbrunsdonza]

Grocceries have gone through the roof. For the last 7yrs I saw about a 5% increase in my budget (I buy the same things every month) but in the last year I've seen it more than double. We went from R2K a month including me braaing 3-4 times a week enough meat for 3 days down to R4K a month and I braai 2-3 times a month just enough for the meal.

We buy a lot less and have substituted nearly everything - even eating mielie pap in our house nowdays.

If I went back to our old ways, I would easily touch R6K

[cbrunsdonza]

I feel so poor knowing that there are people spending R7000 on food for two people.Thats 3.5k out of my salary every month...WTF.I live with my gf and we spend around 1500k on food a month.We cook often and will eat out maybe 3-4 times a month but that is not in the 1.5k.I don't count eating out in my budget because its a luxury.

I take it you eat very little red meat then. My single biggest expense is meat, R1500 per month. OK, we are a family of 3 (2 adults, 3yrs old but lets ignore the newborn) eating meat every day.

A "half" lamb is R200 and is enough meat for 4 meals if I'm lucky. A braai now costs me R200 in meat alone just for us.

[Molokai]

The $AU has just leveled and looks like its overtaking the $US. Grass is most certainly a lot greener.:D:D:D

[alf101]

I take it you eat very little red meat then. My single biggest expense is meat, R1500 per month. OK, we are a family of 3 (2 adults, 3yrs old but lets ignore the newborn) eating meat every day.

A "half" lamb is R200 and is enough meat for 4 meals if I'm lucky. A braai now costs me R200 in meat alone just for us.

Lamb is R59 a kilo over here.
You eating about a kilo a day?

[phoneJunky]

Half a lamb cost me about R500 and it last about 10 meals for a house of 3 people. I don't know how much red meat you eat, but I think I east more than enough. But different people have different eating habits and there is nothing wrong with it. I do believe you spend more than R7000, but you can probably get away with much less than that.

[alf101]

Half a lamb cost me about R500 and it last about 10 meals for a house of 3 people. I don't know how much red meat you eat, but I think I east more than enough. But different people have different eating habits and there is nothing wrong with it. I do believe you spend more than R7000, but you can probably get away with much less than that.

No, we need an intervention here, that's way too much meat.

[cbrunsdonza]

Lamb is R59 a kilo over here.
You eating about a kilo a day?

Lamb is anything from R50-R70 in our stores (prices vary weekly), and half a kilo is right for us.

Thats 200g an adult and 100g for the little one, so not that much when you break it down.

[cbrunsdonza]

Half a lamb cost me about R500 and it last about 10 meals for a house of 3 people. I don't know how much red meat you eat, but I think I east more than enough. But different people have different eating habits and there is nothing wrong with it. I do believe you spend more than R7000, but you can probably get away with much less than that.

What also bumped it up was the price of vegitables. I use to go the local vegi store with R50 bucks each Saturday and walk out with change three years ago, now its R200 a time

[sox63]

R 7k for food? For TWO people?

Geez, where the hell do some you guys shop? Me and my wife spend around R 3k and that is a LOT by my reckoning. I have always complained about where she buys food, like Woolies and such, but tonight I'm going to apologise.

R 7k?? :wtf:

[Fuma]

Buying is a skill. I don't buy from Woolies or those expensive shop.
I spend R300 on veges (all sorts of veges) and it will last me over a month.
E.g. I get a big box of tomatoes from Tshwane Market for R30, but you'll get the very same thing for R100 to R150 from Woolies or Pick and Pay.
So I could easily spend R1000 to R1500 at Woolies - and the nice think about the market is that the veges are still fresh from the farms.
So R1000 is enough for the whole month for 2 people.

[cbrunsdonza]

Don't assume Woolies is the expensive shop. I buy a lot of meat from them and its cheaper when on special (which is every 2nd week now).

End of day, you need to know your prices.

[sox63]

I know this is an opinion piece but there a few things that seem rather strange:

(1) He seems to think that the police enforcing the law is a "bad" thing. I'm not sure how he came to that conclusion.

(2) He claims that people are promoted in SA due to hard-work yet most people know that this is not entirely the case, especially when companies need to tick some boxes to fulfill BEE criteria.

(3) He fails to account for the differences in the buying power of the Aussie $. Of course you are paying more if you convert it into rands, but you're also earning more in terms of Rands.

(4) He fails to mention a lack of crime as a positive in Australia.



Source: News 24 (http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/YourStory/Is-the-grass-really-greener-in-Aus-20101012)

The majority of this guy's problems seem to come from his current quality of life. I think people emigrating people should realise that their lifestyle will almost always be negatively affected if they moved to a more developed economy and their new salary was accepted in comparisson with their old South African one. Proper research should have been done if the guy wanted to maintain the same lifestyle.

[phoneJunky]

Woolies are never the cheapest place to buy. They might be less expensive than other stores but if you really look you will find it cheaper. Woolies is just convenient. I have looked to see what the cheapest is what I could get away with, and it was really little. But I don't really want to live like that so I don't.

[cbrunsdonza]

Woolies are never the cheapest place to buy. They might be less expensive than other stores but if you really look you will find it cheaper. Woolies is just convenient. I have looked to see what the cheapest is what I could get away with, and it was really little. But I don't really want to live like that so I don't.

OK, you need to understand the Woolies prices are fixed as they go into long term contracts with their suppliers. As a result, prices variance is minimal. The advantage comes in during December when you will find their meat is cheaper than Pick 'n Pay / Checkers / Shoprtie. But do always compare and know your prices.

Different with the luxury items as thats where Woolies makes their money.

[Chris]

I see one of the News 24 readers has written a rebuttal of sorts -


Dear Editor,

RE: Is the grass really greener in Aus?

Well written. I think PB forgot a few things in his story.

1. Couples with new born babies get a bonus from the government.

2. The government gives incentives to buy your own house.

3. $1000.00 a week for rent? What a joke. please see www.realestate.com.au for more details. PB is not in the Cabinet.

4. He did not mention about the Centrelink function and the help they provide for students and the unemployed.

5. As Fitter & Turner in SA I could not afford a new house not even a house, here I can.

7. Now one to work out yourself, in Aus 2 hours of my daily salary can fill my cars tank how much do you need to work in SA to achieve this?

8. The Ambulance took approx eight minutes to reach my house on 12/10/10 in an emergency and it cost me nothing and the treatment in hospital in SA you have to take your own food along.

9. Two labourers married in this country can afford a three bedroom house, what in SA ?

10. My Wife had an operation here that would have made us bankrupt in SA. We paid nothing.

11. Last go on search engines and see what this country offers like economy, safety and opportunities. Do your homework in depth before you write something for the world to read.

This story of PB shows me that not all people see life trough the same glasses.

Pieter

Source: News 24 (http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Letters/For-me-the-grass-is-greener-20101014)

[alloytoo]

The majority of this guy's problems seem to come from his current quality of life. I think people emigrating people should realise that their lifestyle will almost always be negatively affected if they moved to a more developed economy and their new salary was accepted in comparisson with their old South African one. Proper research should have been done if the guy wanted to maintain the same lifestyle.

That would depend on how you define quality of life, and shouldn't be confused with lifestyle.

Your lifestyle takes a (tempory) knock, not your quality of life.

Sydney is ranked 10th in the Mercer quality of life survey. I don't know how those poor bastards can stand living there, honestly I don't. :-)

[snail]

Have family that moved from SA to the kangaroo land,the mother neva even had a job here and they were fine with all the income from the father,now the children have jobs and the mother works 2 seperate jobs,during day and night.so life aint that easy there

[Jola]

Have family that moved from SA to the kangaroo land,the mother neva even had a job here and they were fine with all the income from the father,now the children have jobs and the mother works 2 seperate jobs,during day and night.so life aint that easy there

Yes, it's very competitive there.

But it's a diffent life, you don't have to look over your shoulder all the time. And things work. So quality of life is better.

[Djtay]

Why is this even a debate?

Australia = 1st world
SA = 3rd world

Unfair comparison. I find it interesting though that people claim the lifestyles are similar. One of the richest countries in the world has a comparable llifestyle with a 3rd world country in africa? Doesn't say much about Australia or maybe it says something about SA?

[the graduate]

Why is this even a debate?

Australia = 1st world
SA = 3rd world

Unfair comparison. I find it interesting though that people claim the lifestyles are similar. One of the richest countries in the world has a comparable llifestyle with a 3rd world country in africa? Doesn't say much about Australia or maybe it says something about SA?

Good post!

[Nod]

Why is this even a debate?

Australia = 1st world
SA = 3rd world

Unfair comparison. I find it interesting though that people claim the lifestyles are similar. One of the richest countries in the world has a comparable llifestyle with a 3rd world country in africa? Doesn't say much about Australia or maybe it says something about SA?

You lifestyle does not have to change when you immigrate, but your quality of life will.
Lifestyle is basically all the niceties in life, eg. big car, big house, expensive luxuries, etc.
Quality of life is things like safety, clean air, less stress, better health, etc. The things you can't buy.

There are countries where you can have a better quality of life, without getting a big salary. Money is not everything.

[the graduate]

You lifestyle does not have to change when you immigrate, but your quality of life will.
Lifestyle is basically all the niceties in life, eg. big car, big house, expensive luxuries, etc.
Quality of life is things like safety, clean air, less stress, better health, etc. The things you can't buy.

There are countries where you can have a better quality of life, without getting a big salary. Money is not everything.
Namibia, Botswana, Zambia....safety, clean air, less stress, better health...

[Nod]

Namibia, Botswana, Zambia....safety, clean air, less stress, better health...

The choice of country is very much a personal one. But yeah, Namibia is very nice, but not a lot of IT related work, mostly mining and game farms.

[the graduate]

The choice of country is very much a personal one. But yeah, Namibia is very nice, but not a lot of IT related work, mostly mining and game farms.

I agree...

I just think that every country has its shytz-en-gigglez....however, the way some South Africans slate their country as the world's biggest crime dump is quite unfair...I do not in anyway want to minimize the trauma victims of crime go through, but South Africa is one of the most beautiful and blessed countries on the planet!

If you want to escape the crime, go to Namibia or if you want the death penalty, go to Botswana....but this country is such a gem...I love mountain-biking and all I can say is WOW.....phuck NZ or Oz....even Canada or Europe.....just roll round the Western Cape, and you'll have every conceivable view you can imagine...never mind the rest of SA....

[MaryJane]

Why is this even a debate?

Australia = 1st world
SA = 3rd world

Unfair comparison. I find it interesting though that people claim the lifestyles are similar. One of the richest countries in the world has a comparable llifestyle with a 3rd world country in africa? Doesn't say much about Australia or maybe it says something about SA?


Auz has an unemployment rate of something silly like 5%. So that means 85%+ of their population enjoys a middle-class lifestyle (granted this ranges from lower to upper middle class). In SA it is possible to achieve the same standard of living if you have a decent paying job, which probably represents about 30% of the population. By decent, I mean a family being able to afford a 3 bedroom house and 2 cars without crippling themselves trying to repay the debt.

Lifestyles are very similar but there are a lot of differences. In Australia for example, families can go to government managed and sponsored parks for the day, the government provides cycling lanes, free public transport in the inner CBDs, they have no power outages, all their roads and traffic lights are in good working condition etc.

Combine the standard of living with things like reduced likelihood of being involved in a violent crime, not having to deal with AA/BEE and being being part of a stronger economy, it's not hard to see why people choose to go to Australia.

Australia does have its problems. It is becoming a bit of a nanny state, they have a country wide firewall and their shops close at 5 among a few things. A few South Africans have also not lasted very long in Auz. It's a major move and can take up to 2 years to settle in properly. The decision should not be taken lightly. Immigration also indirectly causes divorces. Remember, changing jobs is listed as one of the most stressful things to go through. When you immigrate, you are not only changing jobs, but setting up a new home (from scratch in some cases), adapting to a new culture, making new friends etc. If you decide to do it, make sure you are fully committed.

[genetic]

I've got family in OZ (OZ born and bred), they are the most obnoxious, unfriendly and naïve people you'll ever meet! Stuff OZ and the Auzzies!! :D

[Djtay]

Auz has an unemployment rate of something silly like 5%. So that means 85%+ of their population enjoys a middle-class lifestyle (granted this ranges from lower to upper middle class). In SA it is possible to achieve the same standard of living if you have a decent paying job, which probably represents about 30% of the population. By decent, I mean a family being able to afford a 3 bedroom house and 2 cars without crippling themselves trying to repay the debt.

Lifestyles are very similar but there are a lot of differences. In Australia for example, families can go to government managed and sponsored parks for the day, the government provides cycling lanes, free public transport in the inner CBDs, they have no power outages, all their roads and traffic lights are in good working condition etc.

Combine the standard of living with things like reduced likelihood of being involved in a violent crime, not having to deal with AA/BEE and being being part of a stronger economy, it's not hard to see why people choose to go to Australia.

Australia does have its problems. It is becoming a bit of a nanny state, they have a country wide firewall and their shops close at 5 among a few things. A few South Africans have also not lasted very long in Auz. It's a major move and can take up to 2 years to settle in properly. The decision should not be taken lightly. Immigration also indirectly causes divorces. Remember, changing jobs is listed as one of the most stressful things to go through. When you immigrate, you are not only changing jobs, but setting up a new home (from scratch in some cases), adapting to a new culture, making new friends etc. If you decide to do it, make sure you are fully committed.

All characteristics of a 1st world country just like Europe and N America. I don't understand South Africans "obsession" with Aus. I have a UK ancestry visa but have no intention of living in that hole. I don't find the western world very appealing. Now if I can get into Asia...Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore mabe Seoul...thats were its at for me.

[zulgin]

I would rather sort out Julius in SA then deal with those awefull Aussie accents :)

[Captain Slog]

Why is this even a debate?

Australia = 1st world
SA = 3rd world

Unfair comparison. I find it interesting though that people claim the lifestyles are similar. One of the richest countries in the world has a comparable llifestyle with a 3rd world country in africa? Doesn't say much about Australia or maybe it says something about SA?


Good post!


You lifestyle does not have to change when you immigrate, but your quality of life will.
Lifestyle is basically all the niceties in life, eg. big car, big house, expensive luxuries, etc.
Quality of life is things like safety, clean air, less stress, better health, etc. The things you can't buy.

There are countries where you can have a better quality of life, without getting a big salary. Money is not everything.

If you are too busy working you gat off trying to pay the rent and eat I feel that having the nice warm, fuzzy feeling of the nanny state in Aus would not really provide much quality of life.

There are many facets to life in SA, the 1st world 3rd world thing holds no water as an arguement for or against life in SA or Aus. People need to make up their own minds and stay, or leave depending upon that decision.

It surprises me how many people have made the "right decision" and have left the violent cesspit of hate that is modern South Africa for the utopia of Australia still lurk around on SA forums.

[noxibox]

All characteristics of a 1st world country just like Europe and N America. I don't understand South Africans "obsession" with Aus. I have a UK ancestry visa but have no intention of living in that hole. I don't find the western world very appealing. Now if I can get into Asia...Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore mabe Seoul...thats were its at for me.
You have a preference for eastern police states?

[Shayd]

Personally I hate police states period, if I were American I would be a thoroughbred right wing Republican. I believe that governments doesn't know their arse from their elbow and ultimately should stick to setting the rules and leave the market to solve its' problems for it.

Oh and a believe in corporal punishment, in most of these places I would be branded an abuser for spanking my kid. As someone who went through jacks and boarding school I can attest it works.

I don't need the state to tax me to death and "provide" for me. I am an adult and will provide for myself and my family.

Frankly I will happily remain an "arrogant" South African and stay in this beautiful country where I can get a 500g T-Bone for R30 and can get a maid to clean my floors and wash my clothes. My belief is that the middle class South Africans live like kings in comparison to the rest of the world and unless Malema comes in and forks this place over I see a bright future for us.

Viva SA Viva the 500g T-Bone Viva the hot Afrikaans meisies!!!

[alloytoo]

Personally I hate police states period, if I were American I would be a thoroughbred right wing Republican. I believe that governments doesn't know their arse from their elbow and ultimately should stick to setting the rules and leave the market to solve its' problems for it.

Oh and a believe in corporal punishment, in most of these places I would be branded an abuser for spanking my kid. As someone who went through jacks and boarding school I can attest it works.

I don't need the state to tax me to death and "provide" for me. I am an adult and will provide for myself and my family.

Frankly I will happily remain an "arrogant" South African and stay in this beautiful country where I can get a 500g T-Bone for R30 and can get a maid to clean my floors and wash my clothes. My belief is that the middle class South Africans live like kings in comparison to the rest of the world and unless Malema comes in and forks this place over I see a bright future for us.

Viva SA Viva the 500g T-Bone Viva the hot Afrikaans meisies!!!

Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

[alloytoo]

It surprises me how many people have made the "right decision" and have left the violent cesspit of hate that is modern South Africa for the utopia of Australia still lurk around on SA forums.

Well I didn't stop liking Biltong and Boerewors, and I didn't stop liking my friends/ Family because I left South Africa, why should I abandon the forum?

[Molokai]

I've got family in OZ (OZ born and bred), they are the most obnoxious, unfriendly and naïve people you'll ever meet! Stuff OZ and the Auzzies!! :D

Strange you say this because I have heard many a kiwi saying the exact same about us saffas.

[Molokai]

Well I didn't stop liking Biltong and Boerewors, and I didn't stop liking my friends/ Family because I left South Africa, why should I abandon the forum?

Well said boet. Most of us kiwi saffas are still proud saffa. And thats the bit that most South African saffas cant seem to grasp.

[Ricard]

there is no such thing as 'The grass is greener on the other side' - the grass is also greener over the septic tank! Every country has its 'Green Grass' and they are all different. If you want awesome beaches, then Oz is greener, if you like warm beer, then the UK is greener. By the analogy, the definition of 'Green' is subjective and varies from person to person. People dont leave SA 'cos the grass is greener over there; if they did leave for that reason - then they will return to SA soon enough and partake in the festival of "[country XYZ] is K@k 'cos the water in the toilets swirl the other way".

The grass is green everywhere - its up to every individual to decide on what shade of green they prefer.

[thatdamnJoe]

He forgot to mention that WHITE people make the decisions....should count as a "BEEEGG pozeetiev"....

Seriously?

I know a lot of white people I wouldn't trust to decide whats for lunch.

Racist logic is racist

[myaudream]

Is the grass really greener?
Depends who you are. A doctor or engineer I would say yes.
Small business owners who get away with things in SA he won't get away with the same things in Oz so for them no.
People with lots of money to never work again: Yes with money you can visit SA on holiday.
Other people in the services industry: 50/50. Depends on the person.
Government, Telkom, Eskom employees: No

[norobotman]

There will be big trouble every where in the world where you are irrespective of crime levels.
The country you choose is the best one you can deal with whatever problem and opportunity that will come up.

You can get busy living or busy dying wherever you are.

[Molokai]

A couple of hundred thousands of south africans all over Australia, about 10australians living in SA.

South Africa shops popping up all over Australia. Dont know of a single one in SA.

And we discussing where the grass is greener????

[alloytoo]

A couple of hundred thousands of south africans all over Australia, about 10australians living in SA.

South Africa shops popping up all over Australia. Dont know of a single one in SA.

And we discussing where the grass is greener????

Aren't most of the shops in SA South African?

Seriously though, while I miss the convience of buying biltong just about anywhere, there are three South Africa shops within 5 minutes drive of my house. And the regular butchers stock Boerewors.

[Molokai]

Aren't most of the shops in SA South African?

Seriously though, while I miss the convience of buying biltong just about anywhere, there are three South Africa shops within 5 minutes drive of my house. And the regular butchers stock Boerewors.

Actually meant, dont know of a single Australian shop in SA. Unlike in Aus where there are plent of SA shops.

You must be staying on the North Shore?

[alloytoo]

Actually meant, dont know of a single Australian shop in SA. Unlike in Aus where there are plent of SA shops.

Just joshing ya.


You must be staying on the North Shore?

Nah, Howick (or Chowickfontein)

I work in the city, still can't get over that, a CBD that's safe and attractive.

[zippy]

Don't leave SA. I left 3 years ago.

Security companies are almost non-existent. People leave their cars parked in the street. Lock up garages are hard to find. Nobody has barbed wire or cut-glass on the top of their Walls. In fact most walling is only 2 feet high.

Sigh. I miss SA.

Okay I lie. I don't. I still need to come up with a good excuse not to fly to SA for holidays with family. Maybe a volcano or strike will come to my rescue. Again. :)

[alloytoo]

Don't leave SA. I left 3 years ago.

Security companies are almost non-existent. People leave their cars parked in the street. Lock up garages are hard to find. Nobody has barbed wire or cut-glass on the top of their Walls. In fact most walling is only 2 feet high.

2 foot wall..... I'm so jealous LOL

Are you forced to use safe and on time public transport......

Sigh. I miss SA.


Okay I lie. I don't. I still need to come up with a good excuse not to fly to SA for holidays with family. Maybe a volcano or strike will come to my rescue. Again. :)

Well there was a Tsunami alert this morning......only it was a drill.

[zippy]

2 foot wall..... I'm so jealous LOL

Are you forced to use safe and on time public transport......

Sigh. I miss SA.


Well there was a Tsunami alert this morning......only it was a drill.

On time public transport is the most annoying thing. No excuse for being late for work.

[alloytoo]

On time public transport is the most annoying thing. No excuse for being late for work.

And they're so frequent if you're a couple of minutes early you have to catch an early one and get to work early arrrrrgh