View Full Version : Forum Image, Objectives And Moderation
For a number of months now, I have noted with some despair the deliberate sabotage of the MyADSL forum goals and objectives, through the opening of threads that clearly haven't even the slightest relationship to discussions concerning broadband in ZA. As an example, see the following thread topics:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=28119
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=28107
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=27983
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=28121
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=28118
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=19739
... and so the list goes on.
The threads concerned have an overt political, racist, religious, sexist and clearly non-broadband related content as the case may be, and do nothing except stir emotions, increase the cost of maintaining the site, and detract from its image as being relevant for both provider and consumer issues, in a relatively unbiased and professional manner. My personal perception is that the MyADSL image has in fact deteriorated since I joined just over two years ago, the growth in member numbers notwithstanding. Much of this perception is due to a qualitative assessment of the on-line personas of those who initiate this type of posting and then involve themselves in flame wars with others, through the posting of irrelevancies such as snide remarks, personal attacks, and other similar nasties. MaD put it very nicely in his recent posting at http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=310521&postcount=17
IMHO in the interests of keeping MyADSL a respectable site, negative and possible defamatory comments should be kept at the other end of the keyboard.. RPM has worked hard to bring this site up and it would be sad if people disregard it because of a few overly-harsh comments from an increasingly vocal minority.
The usual justification and ostensible excuse for these postings is that they are 'Off topic', and therefore allowable. That may indeed be so, but this does not mean that they should indeed be considered permissable within the broader context of this forum's objectives, imho - after all, that particular thread remains part of the discussion forum, and is not a separate entity. There have also been painfully long discussions and debate about issues of freedom of speech, the right of reply, language usage (whether concerning actual choice of language, punctuation, spelling, or grammar) - all of these are largely irrelevant, however, when seen in the light of this forum's objectives. It follows that a considered assessment of whether a posting indeed promotes this forum's objectives is warranted, BEFORE it is actually posted - those objectives are what give realisation to this forum's recognition as a cohesive community with a focussed and common objective, nothing else. If anybody believes this to be the wrong approach, feel free to comment in this thread. By the same token, I believe that mods should become more visible concerning the posting of irrelevancies AFTER they have actually been posted - freeze the thread and disallow postings for an arbitrary period, then delete entirely.
As a measure of forumite opinion in this regard, I would ask one of the mods to please initiate on-line polls as follows:
- Do you agree/disagree that political, racist, religious and sexist threads detract from this forum's objectives?
* Agree
* Disagree
* Non-committal
- Do you agree/disagree that mods should actively moderate such threads, in pursuance of this forum's objectives?
* Agree
* Disagree
* Non-committal
I await responses with interest...
My viewpoint:
1) It is in the Off topic Arena which is fine
2) Discussion of any topic is relevant and acceptable as long as it remains within bounds and acceptable conduct
3) Freedom of choice to read the threads You find acceptable can be implemented by each individual and ignore those he finds against his principles by not reading the thread or blocking of certain posters
4)Moderators have to do their Job and block posters with the three strike rule under unacceptable behaviour.
- Defamation of person or institution
- Personal and or direct attacks
- Publish of XXX links or posts
- Swearing (I do not mean F@ck) (This is not a ........Forum)
- Racial degradation or remarks.. (Not healthy discussion) I saw good posts from all sides regards this issue and found some insight in comments delivered by posters from all sides of the rainbow. Good guys and thanks !
5) So far I found most threads and post acceptable and believe it is becoming a popular forum due to the level of moderation implemented so far
I agree some posters overstepped the line but it is up to moderation that needs to address the issue. Freedom of speech is a right for all of us and here it is well implemented but it does not give anyone the right to be derrogitive or abbusive (hope the spelling and wording is right)
If we only have to read pre-imposed subjects in this forum then this will be come lonely forum to subscribe to and very few would remain logged on
I found this forum quiet stimulating, varied in content, still retained our original objective and amusing at times. DO NOT CHANGE IT
No disagreement from me, ic - however, am trying to get something actively done about this, which I see as a growing problem. The bottom line is that the forum's image is potentially being brought into disrepute by all the non-broadband threads, many of which are posted by those with overt agendas not related to this forum's objectives at all. Yes, this is an open forum, and open discussion is warranted and to be welcomed, but methinx its time for a line to be drawn and some self-censorship to take effect - hence the request for a poll...
MikeNoble
25-09-2005, 02:55 PM
I agree, i visit myADSL to read about issues related to broadband in South Africa, not all this other trash that seems to be taking over the forums!
@pupa: your posting is typical of the thread derailment so prevalent on this forum - I did not ask for your opinion about free speech, forum etiquette, etc. (much of which is already covered in other threads) - merely whether you agreed with the approach that consideration of this forum's objectives is warranted, prior to posting. Your point (2) is the only response that addresses this issue, and which you clearly believe to be unwarranted in favour of the discussion of 'any topic'. The question of moderation should be addressed consequential to the poll findings, whatever that may be.
bwana
25-09-2005, 03:05 PM
IMO the off-topic section serves as a necessary evil and should be left as is - ie moderated by a light-handed approach. Alternatively it could be moved off site and linked to as the blogs have been.
As the last example of an irrelevant thread was written started by a moderator it begs to ask who would moderate the moderators?
IMO the off-topic section serves as a necessary evil and should be left as is - ie moderated by a light-handed approach. Alternatively it could be moved off site and linked to as the blogs have been.
Indeed a potential solution, but a purely systemic one that does not address the over-arching question of whether non-broadband posts serve to promote this forum's objectives, and in fact seem to be detracting from them, imho.
As the last example of an irrelevant thread was written started by a moderator it begs to ask who would moderate the moderators?The community does - easy enough to castigate a moderator and demand that the posting be removed and/or located elsewhere, if perceived to be non-broadband related and not contributing positively to forum objectives...
@pupa: your posting is typical of the thread derailment so prevalent on this forum - I did not ask for your opinion about free speech, forum etiquette, etc. (much of which is already covered in other threads) - merely whether you agreed with the approach that consideration of this forum's objectives is warranted, prior to posting. Your point (2) is the only response that addresses this issue, and which you clearly believe to be unwarranted in favour of the discussion of 'any topic'. The question of moderation should be addressed consequential to the poll findings, whatever that may be.
Ok, You started it
The idea was not to derail the thread thats Your opinion. I aired my views. If You want to post and expect no alternate views to be posted then arrange with Your moderating friends to lock the thread then nobody can post just read. I remain with all the points as valid to what You want to achieve. I agreed in priciple. This is a open forum, I am getting tired of people on throwns getting upset when someone post a response on the thread he posted that slightly dissagrees or if it is not one of his mates. If it is so damn offensive asked the moderators to ban me of the site.. After all they seem to be Your friends not mine.....
Moderators please feel frree to delete all my threads on this forum.. Then I can join the ranks of Kei and Slimothy if that is what happens here and I will leave, maybe they were right after all
IMO the off-topic section serves as a necessary evil and should be left as is - ie moderated by a light-handed approach. Alternatively it could be moved off site and linked to as the blogs have been.
As the last example of an irrelevant thread was written started by a moderator it begs to ask who would moderate the moderators?
Well said Bwana. That is what I tried to say and meant in my simplistic english. Just wonder why You were not castrated as well
@pupa: calm down - there is no need whatsoever to provide evidentiary support of your emotional state or maturity level: that's not what this thread is about. Let's get it back on track, and post some relevancies concerning the suggestions made in my original posting.
@pupa: calm down - there is no need whatsoever to provide evidentiary support of your emotional state or maturity level: that's not what this thread is about. Let's get it back on track, and post some relevancies concerning the suggestions made in my original posting. I amm not upset, nor imature as You put it, rather look at your own post as answer to mine and I will delete these responses, promise and may peace prevail
.geek
25-09-2005, 04:05 PM
The threads concerned have an overt political, racist, religious, sexist and clearly non-broadband related content as the case may be, and do nothing except stir emotions, increase the cost of maintaining the site, and detract from its image as being relevant for both provider and consumer issues, in a relatively unbiased and professional manner.
Agreed.
- Do you agree/disagree that political, racist, religious and sexist threads detract from this forum's objectives?
* Agree
* Disagree
* Non-committal
- Do you agree/disagree that mods should actively moderate such threads, in pursuance of this forum's objectives?
* Agree
* Disagree
* Non-committal
Would be interesting to see the results of such a poll.
TMoose
25-09-2005, 04:34 PM
Many people here seem to be in agreement that nothing except broadband is supposed to be discussed on the forum.
So... what's the point of the Off Topic section then? Could somebody explain to me why there is an Off Topic section on the forum? For some reason I thought it was discuss matters Off the Topic of broadband.
MyADSL has grown into much more than just a broadband forum. It is an online community. My opinion is still that if you don't like the 10% of the forum dedicated to Off Topic conversations then simply don't click on the Off Topic section and read the other 90%.
VQuest
25-09-2005, 04:36 PM
Glad you brought all of this up mbs. I agree with most everything you said.
- Do you agree/disagree that political, racist, religious and sexist threads detract from this forum's objectives?
* Agree
- Do you agree/disagree that mods should actively moderate such threads, in pursuance of this forum's objectives?
* Agree
Religion should be banned even from Off Topic section. If people want to discuss religion they can do so via email or IRC or even a Religious forum.
Politics should be banned unless it's particularly about our Broadband/Telecoms industry.
A little while ago a lot of people were b1tching and moaning about the actions of our mods. My opinion is that they have been very lenient in the past. Sometimes too lenient. I have no objection to them getting stricter with what is allowed and what is not allowed.
This is a broadband forum, of which we are guests. It's not a democracy. The mods must do whatever is best for this forum.
I have no objection to having an Off Topic section, but I really wouldn't worry if it wasn't there. I come here for broadband discussion, as do many others. There are plenty of other forums where you can discuss religion and politics, etc - it doesn't need to be done here.
That said, there is irrelevant stuff that doesn't help, our community or SA as a whole, get better broadband in SA. My conclusion: have a sub-forum of Off Topic called "Pointless Discussions"...
I agree IC. Throw all the junk/flame/religious/political threads in there. That way we won't have to wade through hundreds of bandwidth wasting posts to get to the information we are looking for.
TMoose
25-09-2005, 04:43 PM
You guys sound like a bunch of masochists to me.
"Oh how I hate all the discussion that doesn't have anything to do with broadband... click on off topic... oh look a thread I'd absolutely hate to read... click... oh I hate this thread so much... click to page 2... damn this thread, grrrr... click to page 3".
Seriously, do us all a favour and don't read Off Topic. This is exactly like the people complaining that they hate certain TV shows and yet keep watching it every week.
bb_matt
25-09-2005, 04:51 PM
I don't agree with anything mbs said and actually find it offensive.
If any actions are put in place to prevent the offtopic discussions, no matter what they are about, consider me an ex-member of this place.
Luckily, mbs is NOT a moderator and doesn't call the shots.
mbs, you have totally over-reacted, only viewing it from one side - yours.
These off-topic threads are but a tiny portion of the content posted here, which can be proven by simply clicking on the New Posts functionality.
At ANY given time, telecomms/IT related articles are clearly 90% of content.
If you wish to dwell in the Off Topic forum and judge from there, you are clearly not understanding how web forums work.
Another factor here is how popular off topic is !
It's on par with ADSL General discussion.
Remove it and see the forum lose a great deal of members.
I have read many of your posts where you exhibit a very closed-minded "holier than thou" approach, fair enough, that's you right as a free citizen, but please, get a sense of perspective and empathy.
The irony is, you have effectively stirred up trouble by posting this thread in the first place, so you are guilty of the very same thing you are protesting about !
Makes me laugh, really, it does ...
EDIT: Oh yes, perhaps it's time you aquired a sense of humour, you seem to be entirely lacking in that department.
EDIT AGAIN: Oh ****, I just derailed a thread ! - quick, MODERATOR !, don your Jack Boots, shave your head and beat me to a bloody pulp for not playing "the mbs game" and daring to talk about something other than Broadband !
FINAL EDIT: Oh my word ! - everyone do themselves a favour and go and view the posts mbs has made - click on his name to view the profile, then click on "find all posts by mbs"
What do you see ?
A TOTAL BLOODY HYPOCRITE !
Just a small selection :-
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=309209#post309209
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=306510#post306510
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=305538#post305538
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=304642#post304642
Yipes ! - for a man who appears on the surface to be very intelligent, you certainly have an ability to make some really dumb statements, as proven by this entire thread.
.geek
25-09-2005, 05:24 PM
The irony is, you have effectively stirred up trouble by posting this thread in the first place, so you are guilty of the very same thing you are protesting about !
He wants a poll.
bb_matt
25-09-2005, 05:27 PM
IMO this thread, has more to do with the fact that the Off Topic forum is becoming the central focus of forumites, than it has to do with censorship or what should/shouldn't be allowed...
And mbs is a massive hypocrite, so this entire thread is completely useless.
The MyAdsl forum buzzed because it was prominent in various other news articles on the WEB. Come November and we will see Buzzing again. I am sure ??.... Make Off Topic a Public forum with other Moderators to do the work if required. I have spend a lot off time here lately and the varied topic's is great. Dont remove it..find a new place for it.
ROFL @ TMoose - seriously though if you use New Posts (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/search.php?do=getnew) it is more "in your face" than actually having to deliberately click one's way into the Off Topic forum, and then into an o/t forum thread, and then to page x...
One point that IMO is not coming out clearly enough, is that a while back, the other MyADSL forums that are about broadband, were buzzing, however lately the Off Topic forum has been buzzing more than the other forums, which due to the nature of the O/T forum's threads & posts requires even more time spent by moderators on contentious posts that have little to nothing to do with broadband...with the New Posts (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/search.php?do=getnew) feature of vBulletin, you first have to wade through all the Off Topic forum's posts to find stuff that actually is about broadband...
IMO this thread, has more to do with the fact that the Off Topic forum is becoming the central focus of forumites, than it has to do with censorship or what should/shouldn't be allowed...
Can there not be sepperate "New post" areas. One for Off topic Only. If this goes about the amount of moderating workload, Can there not be more Moderators (Unbiased ones) to handle Off Topic.
Question Why have a Off topic in the first place then complain!! get rid off if and ban all posters ""Off Topic"" then we will always at least have the same five on this forum in the evenings (2-3 Moderators) one member and one guest ...LOL
Also based on comments directed at me in this post below WHO THE HELL HIJACKED THIS THREAD NOW! but I got castrated for only commenting facts. Shows the spirit of this Forum Old Timers is getting into.....Hell I don't Know...... Lets all go and then the same crowd can talk to themselves if they get bored.
RPM please decide what You need or want on This forum and delete the Guys You Do Not Want here.....Simple and appoint moderators that can do the job and is not biased ...Please. Slimothy seems to me had a point. The forum died after they became quiet in the last four weeks
craigsa
25-09-2005, 05:55 PM
FFS its in the off topic section if you dont like it then stop reading the section or stop reading those posts. Jeeez have you ever heard of freeom of speach ? If RPM does not like it (and i am refering to him only) then he must please take the off topic section away. Unfortunately many members will have nothing to post as i said before most of the broadvand issues have been covered already.
bwana
25-09-2005, 05:55 PM
Off topic
Everything else!Seems pretty clear to me.
RichardP
25-09-2005, 05:59 PM
Hi there, I agree with all points, but there are alternatives.. remove OT section and make a 'Religious' and 'Politics'. I want to read alot of OT postings, F1, Kate Moss' latest weed concoction etc etc, but I dont want to wade through pointless banter of the 'lonely politician'.
What needs to be decided too... does the forum want users or informative postings ? There is a conflict as forum sponsors pay based on userbase, which means the forum wants more members for revenue (I am not saying this is the case, but I am mod of a forum that had this philosophy) or quality (bad word to use) ... we all know the 'Quality vs Quantity' line, and being in South Africa - we are all familiar with crap quality and end up paying twice as much for Quality... this I feel is the same on a forum.
As for freedom of speech, thats a myth! - as per constitution of SA - I have the right to Freedom of speech, unless someone else finds it offensive, then you have no freedom. (Same applies to smoking... Smokers have the right to light up.... but non-smokers have the right to clean air)..
make up your own mind..... but does the forum want to loose members due to being Moderated, or loose members due to bad content (and thus a bad reputation)
Richard
JStrike
25-09-2005, 06:00 PM
I totally agree mbs. It starts making the forum look like the rambling of racists and extremists, which detracts from the credibility of this forum and the goals which we would like to achieve
craigsa
25-09-2005, 06:02 PM
I think certain members on this forum are just unhappy card carrying members of of a certain political party and get upset when we bitch about the actions of that party. :)
Boo hoo
(see i derailed the thread)
craigsa
25-09-2005, 06:03 PM
I totally agree mbs. It starts making the forum look like the rambling of racists and extremists, which detracts from the credibility of this forum and the goals which we would like to achieve
O-F-F -T-O-P-I-C :rolleyes:
QUOTE=bwana v.4]Seems pretty clear to me.[/QUOTE]
Yes I agree.
News Headlines,, My ADSL in disarray (Spelling?)
Telkom spies managed to Kill MyAdsl bringing them in disrepute. My Adsl was not a public forum as perceived but ran by a small group of disillusioned people to voice their opinion against Telkom. They do not have "Public support"" as claimed . Total membership dropped to 30 disgruntled old timers that want the forum for themselves.
Please NO leave the forum as is to naturally develop. Look at NukeCAp and OpenweB forums, Quiet and lonely...Just rethink Restructure and please everyone. You have my and I am sure everybody else support.
Make this the biggest, most popular broadband band and public forum in the country. I will pay a fee to be a member to cover costs (small fee). I have and do not even participate in Mweb and many other forums anymore
Now this is Hijacking.
craigsa
25-09-2005, 06:09 PM
??
bb_matt
25-09-2005, 06:15 PM
I second craigsa's statement.
Pupa, what on earth are you rambling on about ?
Take some medication, or stop taking it, whichever improves your grip on reality.
JStrike
25-09-2005, 06:22 PM
offtopic posts are still seen on the front page. And any company wanting to help MyADSL would be a bit nervous after reading some of the content found in offtopic
[
And mbs is a massive hypocrite, so this entire thread is completely useless.
You like to call people different things and attack them personally it seems from above. Now who is the Hypocrite here
I second craigsa's statement.
Pupa, what on earth are you rambling on about ?
Take some medication, or stop taking it, whichever improves your grip on reality.
I merrilly predict that this is what the site will come to with all the objections against valid posts as I first posted here and had immediate negative response. I was accused of hijacking and all the other. I will edit or delete all My crap when the negative post on my post is edited or removed. My gripp on reality is as sound as Yours with no assistance of any sort. I voiced my opinion and got castrated and are peed off because of it. I do not need to calm down as I am sitting here smiling on how this thread developed without my help . Again I will remove this crap and the others if people will comment properly and not try to score points by what You have just done with Your last comments
bb_matt
25-09-2005, 06:34 PM
offtopic posts are still seen on the front page. And any company wanting to help MyADSL would be a bit nervous after reading some of the content found in offtopic
why ?
If they do not have the ability to understand that an online community has differing viewpoints on all aspects of life, they have no place being in business in the first place.
G0d, I cannot believe the discussions in this thread are leaning the way they are.
To think, people fought and lost their lives for FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, and some m0rons here would terminate that just because some company may get offended by an opinion ?
No bloody wonder the world is so f@cked up, it's full of people willing to push others into their way of living, instead of LIVE AND LET LIVE.
Sure, if someone is upsetting the general status quo, by all means, take action. In this case, we have a hypocrite causing trouble with this thread, nothing less and nothing more.
mbs, time to admit it ...
craigsa
25-09-2005, 06:37 PM
[
You like to call people different things and attack them personally it seems from above. Now who is the Hypocrite here
I merrilly predict that this is what the site will come to with all the objections against valid posts as I first posted here and had immediate negative response. I was accused of hijacking and all the other. I will edit or delete all My crap when the negative post on my post is edited or removed. My gripp on reality is as sound as Yours with no assistance of any sort. I voiced my opinion and got castrated and are peed off because of it. I do not need to calm down as I am sitting here smiling on how this thread developed without my help . Again I will remove this crap and the others if people will comment properly and not try to score points by what You have just done with Your last comments
You guys need to calm down and stop taking things so personally. Whe i first joined here i was name called directly and got extremely upset but then relised that no one here has met me and no one here knows me personally. This is a forum where emotions and tempers are very high but in the end i think we all learn something and maybe become better informed about things we did not know about before.
Believe it or not i have even learned something from my "rival" Tibby :)
Guys if you get shot down , just relax and take it with a pinch of salt.
JEEEZ South africans are an aggressive bunch. That includes me :)
craigsa
25-09-2005, 06:40 PM
BB , i agree with you :)
RichardP
25-09-2005, 06:41 PM
LOL!!! so MyADSL wont moderate my "Get your penis enlargement" or "Buy Viagra at discount rates here ... discreet packaging" ... does that cross the line of the digital divide ?
Its my freedom and anyone who takes offence at my posting just are floppy-small-willied people with membership cards.
Richard
LOL
why ?
If they do not have the ability to understand that an online community has differing viewpoints on all aspects of life, they have no place being in business in the first place.
G0d, I cannot believe the discussions in this thread are leaning the way they are.
To think, people fought and lost their lives for FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, and some m0rons here would terminate that just because some company may get offended by an opinion ?
No bloody wonder the world is so f@cked up, it's full of people willing to push others into their way of living, instead of LIVE AND LET LIVE.
Sure, if someone is upsetting the general status quo, by all means, take action. In this case, we have a hypocrite causing trouble with this thread, nothing less and nothing more.
mbs, time to admit it ...
craigsa
25-09-2005, 06:41 PM
I must tell you that i love this forum and the postings are great , even if they sometimes piss me off. I come home and cannot wait to read the posts of my online buddies. I really would not like to see the off topic removed as i really enjoy it. Just some more cents from me.
craigsa
25-09-2005, 06:42 PM
LOL!!! so MyADSL wont moderate my "Get your penis enlargement" or "Buy Viagra at discount rates here ... discreet packaging" ... does that cross the line of the digital divide ?
Its my freedom and anyone who takes offence at my posting just are floppy-small-willied people with membership cards.
Richard
LOL
Come on Richard we are all adults so we know thats the wrong thing to post and the mods would definitely remove things like that with (i am sure) everyone's consent.
Hi MBS
Thanks for raising this important issue. We have indeed seen an increase in the amount of non-broadband-related and even aggressive discussion on this board. That is what the Off-Topic section is there for and it is therefore difficult to justify the moderation of these discussions as long as there are no complaints.
This is however only one part of the issue. There are some members that are arguably actively trying to harm this forum and its reputation, which is an even thornier issue. Up to now we have tolerated this behavior and most likely will do so in future, but is this the best decision for MyADSL, our online community and broadband in South Africa?
Many people have been working very hard over the past couple of years to build up this community and ensure positive change in the broadband arena. It is however not surprising that there will be a few people that have no respect for MyADSL and are actually against it for whatever reason. They can simply register and start to push their own agendas. As we have seen this can be harmful to MyADSL.
But is stronger moderation the solution? I am not certain if this is the best path to follow. Freedom of speech is one of the most important facets of MyADSL and if we start moderating that, what next? We know that some other forums protect their revenue by protecting their advertisers (deleting negative posts regarding these advertisers), but that can not be tolerated here.
Having said this, a stronger line might be advisable in some cases, including religion, politics or harming MyADSL. Here I think it is up to the members to guide us rather than the mods deciding about it among themselves.
It will obviously be great if the members simply pull together in some of these cases and silence the guys that are in the wrong. In the past this has happened on numerous occasions and it is great to see how strong and united an online community we are. We might be divided on various non-broadband related issues, but when it comes to our site and broadband in SA most of us seem to speak with one voice.
Feedback will be great and will ultimately decide this matter.
Regards,
RPM
RichardP
25-09-2005, 06:51 PM
Come on Richard we are all adults so we know thats the wrong thing to post and the mods would definitely remove things like that with (i am sure) everyone's consent.
craigsa ... yes, I know its the wrong thing to post, but WHERE is the line ? If I post "My god is better than yours", I am going to get shot for it! (ask the Beatles... err.. later) and that too is a No-No!
But on your comment, you do agree there is a line on what is acceptable....
Richard
I must tell you that i love this forum and the postings are great , even if they sometimes piss me off. I come home and cannot wait to read the posts of my online buddies. I really would not like to see the off topic removed as i really enjoy it. Just some more cents from me.
Craig I cannot more than agree with You in the last few posts, The above is why I am here for. I am not upset and do not need to calm. Its a big laugh for me. Get some adrenelin injections here and then then laugh.. thats why I am here. I just wish people can tone down their personal insults when they do post anything. If they think that will send me packing I will kill 24Hrs here posting on the contrary. I never gave one insult or comparison of any person on any thread and would respect if everybody refrain from doing it.
I will kill my crap if everybody agrees and do the same to restore this thread.
craigsa
25-09-2005, 06:56 PM
Well the main man has spoken and i think it was well chosen words. I 10000% agree with what he has said and feel that if someone is truly insulted by something then they have the right to complain to the mods and then the process of deleting the post or thread will continue.
I think we are all adults (hopefully) and if we are REALLY insulted by something or hurt by words posted here then the mods will as they have done before , act on those complaints.
By the way i think the mods are doing a fantastic job. Threads i have posted have also been deleted and deserved to be. :)
bb_matt
25-09-2005, 06:56 PM
Thank G0d for the wisdom of rpm !
As for myself, I stand by my statements about mbs and his hypocrisy, however unwise they may prove to be.
I am NOT impartial, even though I do not have any agenda here, I just like hanging out with the good people who post here and LOVE a good laugh ! :D
And if I make a fool of myself every now and then ?
Heck, I'm human.
mbs - please join us in humanity ...
craigsa
25-09-2005, 06:58 PM
I just wish people can tone down their personal insults when
Fair enough , that i agree with. Personal insults and name calling are not on and there is no place for that here. That would definitely give a bad name to the forum.
craigsa
25-09-2005, 06:58 PM
Lol @bb
RichardP
25-09-2005, 07:12 PM
Thanks all! .. a really good debate ;-)
Richard
craigsa
25-09-2005, 07:14 PM
Our pleasure
Shu"" ..........(removing sweat)
Thanks RPM , Hope this will calm things down now, PM me if I need to remove some of my deliberate posts after I was attacked. I know it is senseless.
Note:
Personal insults when people disagree with or misunderstood a post have no place here and I hope it will stop. Remarks of "sorry" and "Don't take it personal" wont solve the issue. Use constructive criticism to open a discussion and refrain from derogative (Spelling meaning) comments it have no Place
RPM
Please PM me if You disagree with my postings the last week, Point taken where I had very heated discussions (Smiling though.. Not ready to shoot anybody) with reason. I removed most of them where issue resolved with private discussion via PM. If the moderators would not implement some scheme to advise the people that make insults or become personal then the hair will remain flying as seen a few weeks ago. Be assured that I do not want to harm MyADSL. Hope the hint is not for me and freedom of speech is what makes this site worth visiting
antowan
25-09-2005, 07:32 PM
I agree, i visit myADSL to read about issues related to broadband in South Africa, not all this other trash that seems to be taking over the forums!
It is only prevelant in the off topic section of the forum MikeNoble. It is not everywhere. This doesn't mean that I would not mind seeing some discussions disappear though... I just don't think people should go overboard. We are talking about Off-Topic here...
MikeNoble
25-09-2005, 07:56 PM
Agreed, antowan, i have no problem with having an off topic section, i just felt everytime i visited myadsl, the only new stuff was some senseless rant by someone. It felt as though the focus had shifted completely from broadband to getting even with someone on an off topic thread. I do enjoy the off topic stuff as well, but really some of the stuff was just a waste of bandwidth.
bb_matt
25-09-2005, 07:59 PM
Agreed, antowan, i have no problem with having an off topic section, i just felt everytime i visited myadsl, the only new stuff was some senseless rant by someone. It felt as though the focus had shifted completely from broadband to getting even with someone on an off topic thread. I do enjoy the off topic stuff as well, but really some of the stuff was just a waste of bandwidth.
Take the good with the bad, the wheat with the chaff.
If you have a better idea, please tell us, you could save the world !
MikeNoble
25-09-2005, 08:00 PM
No ideas, just a harmless observation.
craigsa
25-09-2005, 08:02 PM
Agreed, antowan, i have no problem with having an off topic section, i just felt everytime i visited myadsl, the only new stuff was some senseless rant by someone. It felt as though the focus had shifted completely from broadband to getting even with someone on an off topic thread. I do enjoy the off topic stuff as well, but really some of the stuff was just a waste of bandwidth.
You can only discuss broadband for so long , it does not change every day and therefore if we only have this forum for that , it will be pretty dead. If you dont like the channel then , for the 100000th time , dont read it.
Reminds me of people moaning about a radio show or dj yet every day they still listen to his whole show.
MikeNoble
25-09-2005, 08:05 PM
Agreed again, but as i was saying I (yes me) felt that the main focus was changing from broadband, to shred who ever posts something you dont agree with, but again just my observation, others will obviously have different views, and i'm fine with that.
craigsa
25-09-2005, 08:06 PM
Yes i hear you but i really believe that the broadband issue in RSA just does not change often enough to have a forum just dedicated to that only.
MikeNoble
25-09-2005, 08:10 PM
Yes, my first post that bb_matt quoted earlier, was probably a bit misleading, make no mistake, I read a lot of the off topic stuff, cos as you say broadband doesnt change on a daily basis, but i suppose i was just adding my 2c worth about some of the recent off topic stuff, i'm all for freedom of speech etc, but really attacking someone personally (as was happening) really, for me, wasn't worth reading, again, others may have enjoyed it, and that's fine with me, was just putting my view forward.
bb_matt
25-09-2005, 08:12 PM
Agreed again, but as i was saying I (yes me) felt that the main focus was changing from broadband, to shred who ever posts something you dont agree with, but again just my observation, others will obviously have different views, and i'm fine with that.
You could argue that the main focus of broadband may have been the intention for this forum and site, yet from day one any topic related to IT was fair game.
Certainly from when I joined, finding this place after getting Sentech in April last year, the talk was always varied and Off Topic was about as popular as it is now.
I love having the opportunity of having open discussions about any topic , as well as a place to share some fun.
I STILL don't see a problem with this forum, even after the recent attacks by certain members and now this stupid thread. Luckily the people that run the place are logical and impartial, understanding that any community needs ample space to "let of some steam" :)
MikeNoble
25-09-2005, 08:21 PM
I STILL don't see a problem with this forum
Nor do I for 99.9999% of the stuff, suppose, a place to let of a little steam is never a bad thing, but sometimes i dont understand why some people attack each other like they do, but as you say it could be a little steam being let off! :)
QUOTE=bb_matt]
Agreed, antowan, i have no problem with having an off topic section, i just felt everytime i visited myadsl, the only new stuff was some senseless rant by someone. It felt as though the focus had shifted completely from broadband to getting even with someone on an off topic thread. I do enjoy the off topic stuff as well, but really some of the stuff was just a waste of bandwidth.
Take the good with the bad, the wheat with the chaff.
If you have a better idea, please tell us, you could save the world ![/QUOTE]
Maybe this observations is exactly the nail on the head. I was so frustrated when posting for help to find the request disappear of the face of the ""New post area"", this made me repost again and again. This led to some other frustrations again. Seems everyone use the new page area as the main interface instead off browsing the Forum. IMO then there should be a ""new Post"" area for each section e.g. ""Forum Image , Objectives and moderation"".. as this site popularity grows the ""new posts"" will be worthless as it will scroll so fast You click in K(clicks)ps..LOL
RPM Moderators is this not the answer fall all these frustrations. Heng, MyADSL is getting to popular and the New post area cant keep up. Point and case !!
MikeNoble
25-09-2005, 08:28 PM
@Pupa, exactly!
sigh... I wonder what rpm's bandwidth usage will be this month...
sigh.........
sigh... I wonder what rpm's bandwidth usage will be this month...
sigh.........
Hi Mad What is Helkoms. I offered to contribute a fee (small one ) for membership but had no takers. Hopefully RPM have a WebAfrica 30G special for this one hehe
Thanx for your response, RPM - duly noted.
I think there's a case to be made for stricter moderation, as evidenced by some of the brain-dead responses on this very thread, not leastly a PM and personal attack by bb_matt, which I will not validate by bothering with a response or even by reporting as a bad post - forumites may judge for themselves.
The stricter moderation I am interested in pursuing does not, however, concern issues of free speech (irrespective of quality), but rather the perceived detrimental affect and the extent to which irrelevant threads are having a deleterious affect on the professional image of this forum. It is for this reason that I asked for a poll, to gauge exactly to what extent forum members believe these non-broadband threads need to be moderated - the exact mechanism and action to be decided upon, consequent to the poll findings. I believe we are in real danger of this forum being cast aside as a relevant voice due to this problem, the valiant and noble efforts by yourself, Cara and others notwithstanding.
The community approach towards moderation of contentious issues will unfortunately not work in this context, imho, for the simple reason that we are not of common mind (nor word nor deed, for that matter) concerning non-broadband issues. It is for that very reason that deliberate moderation is warranted, so that these issues do not sow dissension amongst the ranks, and that the forum's objectives remain foremost in the minds of members, not other agendas concerning non-broadband issues.
Be all that as it may, perhaps a purely systemic/mechanistic approach as suggested by bwana would suffice - move all the non-broadband threads to an independent forum with a separate link on the home page, similar to the pods/blogs. This way, all the irrelevancies disappear from the 'New Posts' listings, and the image of the forum is retained as a professional and focussed one, on broadband-related issues only.
I await relevant responses with interest - those interested in attacking me personally may meet me in the TK thread instead, where Drusky's dogs, croc and the LSC will make short shrift of you...
nocilah
25-09-2005, 10:33 PM
@mbs...
so in other words: censorhip? i dont think that is neccessary for this forum as i think the moderators keep many in line and many harmful posts out. sometimes they miss a few but as antowan once said: 'i'm tired' so i imagine they miss the odd one here and there.
i do understand what you getting at though because i do get bored with the continueous attack on our goverment which is often the propagation of great propoganda, or is it merely oppinions of forumites? but i must admit, i often go to offtopic to read or participate in something non-broadband related.
is a forum not made up of oppinions?
i suppose any administrator of this site should be wary as to what this forum is perceived as, but i think myadsl so far is doing an outstanding job with regards to the fight against the great evil we all know as telkom, and i must say i have seen efforts of fellow forumites helping other forumites.
if anything an age restriction should be required for this site... which i think it has.
Nope, I'm not advocating censorship either - at least, not in the traditional sense of the word.
I reiterate - the forum is exposed to the very real danger of being perceived as irrelevant, despite its noble objectives and raison d'etre. If anything, this demands the conscious consideration by all of what this forum is actually about, BEFORE any threads are opened - if the subject matter does not concern broadband, think about whether it will detract from the forum's objectives, even in the smallest way. If the answer is yes, you would be well advised NOT to open a thread, as you would not be doing anything except cause damage.
For those who insist on deliberately opening threads that have a non-broadband slant, or who have an opinionated viewpoint about a non-broadband related issue, I believe it's time that you consider going elsewhere, particularly if the consequences of your actions are nothing more than harm and damage to the professional image of this community. If you like, consider it self-censorship - the point is that, despite you currently having the freedom to post whatever you like in an open forum, that freedom ends where the professional image of this forum begins.
This is the reason for my poll request - to determine to what extent the perception amongst forum members is, of such non-broadband related threads impacting negatively on forum objectives, and whether more vigorous moderation should therefore be adopted. Believe you me, this is not something that I've sucked out of my thumb - I have heard negative comments in passing from those who count (and which I will not repeat, for the simple reason that those comments were coloured by other considerations). Interestingly enough, this self-same issue was raised not too long ago in another thread by dominic - I can't remember the outcome, though I think he just became tired of having to repeat the same issue over and over again, to those who persisted in missing the point, whether deliberately or not.
Edited in red for simplicity
Thanx for your response, RPM - duly noted.
I think there's a case to be made for stricter moderation, as evidenced by some of the braindead responses on this very thread, not leastly a PM and personal attack by bb_matt, which I will not validate by bothering with a response or even by reporting as a bad post - forumites may judge for themselves. We Judged, as well as your referral to other forumites as ""braindead"" because they did not see your point. It seems you know about bad posts but did not use it up to now, Please advise how many You reported ?)
The stricter moderation I am interested in pursuing does not, however, concern issues of free speech (irrespective of quality), but rather the perceived detrimental affect and the extent to which irrelevant threads are having a deleterious affect on the professional image of this forum. Does this include the TK thread It is for this reason that I asked for a poll, to gauge exactly to what extent forum members believe these non-broadband threads need to be moderated (this is not what You advocated)- the exact mechanism and action to be decided upon, consequent to the poll findings. I believe we are in real danger of this forum being cast aside as a relevant voice due to this problem, the valiant and noble efforts by yourself, Cara and others notwithstanding. Does this include the TK and other threadsYou so willingly participated in_
The community approach towards moderation of contentious issues will unfortunately not work in this context, imho, for the simple reason that we are not of common mind (nor word nor deed, for that matter) concerning non-broadband issues. It is for that very reason that deliberate moderation is warranted, so that these issues do not sow dissension amongst the ranks, and that the forum's objectives remain foremost in the minds of members, not other agendas concerning non-broadband issues. (Thank the almighty for that "non common mindAre you refering also to the TK thread ?),
Be all that as it may, perhaps a purely systemic/mechanistic approach as suggested by bwana would suffice - move all the non-broadband threads to an independent forum with a separate link on the home page, similar to the pods/blogs. This way, all the irrelevancies disappear from the 'New Posts' listings, and the image of the forum is retained as a professional and focussed one, on broadband-related issues only. May be agreeable, then all the ""Brainless"" posters, including the ones on YOUR TK thread also move - Why? to suit Your own agenda)
I await relevant responses with interest - those interested in attacking me personally may meet me in the TK thread instead(Making TK Your Thread ) , where Drusky's dogs, croc and the LSC will make short shrift of you..(shallow joke to boost Your own morale).
There You go again ""Brain dead Responses"" I am sure the moderators and everybody else is having a good laugh here. I started reading this with interest until I saw You referral to other posters as braindead, but seems to me you refer to yourself as You did not follow or understood the response from others or read RPM's response properly. You started the thread and tried to end it with Your subtle remarks.
I read Your original post again thinking maybe I misunderstood it. NO You defeatingly used a lawyer style scripted memo to advocate your disagreement to the Open Forum Off topic sections that is against Your principals for your own agenda. The links You revered to I read again and found them not that bad only its religion and politics' . You don't refer to the TK thread even more remote from broadband?
Here are some of Your own voluntary contributions to the same threads classified as NON BROADBAND some in the ones You listed, You willingly participated in these threads You find so intrusive, abusive, offensive ...NOT complaining to moderators..? or was it a lack of attention that made You sore ? . You try to make the TK thread Your own, which qualify as one of the ""others"" in your list..Your are right it is senseless, have no body, a lot of ""brainless"" crap, but I must tell you a lot of forumites enjoy the TK thread, You inclusive. That is not Broadband related......DAMN I cant believe this Oke. G@D somebody was RIGHT calling youa HYPOCRITE
... nor in angst, neither in despair,
... nor in crassness, neither in narrow-mindedness,
... nor in ignorance, neither in negativity,
... nor in apportionment of blame, neither in accusation,
... /the list could go on and on, but I'm somewhat jaded...
*RATATATATATATAT*
/damn, Gattling's jammed and missed again... throws it away in disgust...
*KA-BOOOM!!*
Die, you gamey gamer, you!
/adjusts personal mortar launcher on shoulder and wanders off, blissful smile playing at corners of mouth...
This be the realisation of the virtualisation,
Of the acrimony and anarchy,
Smelly infection and insurrection,
Proferred by the right-wingers on this Forum...
/spoken at reasonable volume so as not to scare the LSC off...
... dump potting soil into it and use as a pot for a pot-plant - decorate/paint to suit...
Interesting subject, leave. Have often wondered about the extent and prevalence of employer/employee abuse, e.g. false sick days, refused leave for 'operational' reasons, leave entitlements beyond that proscribed by law, and so on - all of this correlated to national productivity and human rights imperatives. Could be a good subject/thesis for a HR student...
Suggestion - try something non-Christian. There's the Q'uran and Bhagavhad Ghita as a start. All of this pre-supposes that you need a spiritual crutch, of course. If you really think about it, you'll find that crutch within yourself - when you reach that point, you'll have evolved spiritually and will find real peace. By the way, this forum has its own crutch - it's called the Thread Killer...
... if you dweebs turn the TK thread into a gaming one, my hunt for the LSC will be xpanded into a full scale war on all of you, dammit!
Precisely the point I have made previously, in http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=274077&postcount=121
My conscience is assuaged through active support of a worthy endeavour situated not far from me - see http://www.sparrowvillage.org
Those of you with the insight to see this tragedy for what it really is, coupled to the basic humanity and common decency necessary to actively do something about it, could do no worse than to make a small donation - link provided on the site.
Continued in the next post
See the previous post
And the one where You are so conveniantly making a fool of Yourself !!
(Just so You cannot edit it to suit)
For a number of months now, I have noted with some despair the deliberate sabotage of the MyADSL forum goals and objectives, through the opening of threads that clearly haven't even the slightest relationship to discussions concerning broadband in ZA. As an example, see the following thread topics:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=28119
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=28107
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=27983
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=28121
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=28118
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=19739
... and so the list goes on.
The threads concerned have an overt political, racist, religious, sexist and clearly non-broadband related content as the case may be, and do nothing except stir emotions, increase the cost of maintaining the site, and detract from its image as being relevant for both provider and consumer issues, in a relatively unbiased and professional manner. My personal perception is that the MyADSL image has in fact deteriorated since I joined just over two years ago, the growth in member numbers notwithstanding. Much of this perception is due to a qualitative assessment of the on-line personas of those who initiate this type of posting and then involve themselves in flame wars with others, through the posting of irrelevancies such as snide remarks, personal attacks, and other similar nasties. MaD put it very nicely in his recent posting at http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=310521&postcount=17
The usual justification and ostensible excuse for these postings is that they are 'Off topic', and therefore allowable. That may indeed be so, but this does not mean that they should indeed be considered permissable within the broader context of this forum's objectives, imho - after all, that particular thread remains part of the discussion forum, and is not a separate entity. There have also been painfully long discussions and debate about issues of freedom of speech, the right of reply, language usage (whether concerning actual choice of language, punctuation, spelling, or grammar) - all of these are largely irrelevant, ?? however, when seen in the light of this forum's objectives. It follows that a considered assessment of whether a posting indeed promotes this forum's objectives is warranted, BEFORE it is actually posted - those objectives are what give realisation to this forum's recognition as a cohesive community with a focussed and common objective, nothing else. (including the TK thread) If anybody believes this to be the wrong approach, feel free to comment in this thread. Thanks for the invite.. But why if we do You shoot us down and call us ""Brainless"" when we do By the same token, I believe that mods should become more visible concerning the posting of irrelevancies AFTER they have actually been posted - freeze the thread and disallow postings for an arbitrary period, then delete entirely. (Does this include Your TK thread which Oh Not So Broadband at all)
As a measure of forumite only singular "Your" opinion opinion in this regard, I would ask one of the mods to please initiate on-line polls as follows:
- Do you agree/disagree that political, racist, religious and sexist threads detract from this forum's objectives?
* Agree
* Disagree
* Non-committal
- Do you agree/disagree that mods should actively moderate such threads, in pursuance of this forum's objectives?
* Agree
* Disagree
* Non-committal
I await responses with interest..You got Your Interest with interest.
@pupa: If ever there was a case of a brain-dead response, these last of yours are surely it. Take note - the TK is a venerable institution in its own right, and has no overt agenda that serves to detract from this forum's objectives, other than to make sure it does not die. Seen in that light, it actually serves to promote, and not detract, from the development of this forum as a community. Read my original posting again, and all my subsequent responses - you clearly have some difficulty in deriving a basic understanding of that being said, much like some of the other brain-dead responses to this thread, which go on about aspects that don't address the main issue being raised.
Concerning my participation in non-broadband related threads, you will note that none of them have in fact been initiated by me - if anything, I have been hard put not to participate in some of those threads, if only to make it quite clear that alternative viewpoints do exist. However, the simple realisation that active participation would not serve to promote this forum's objectives, caused me to quell the urge to post.
You and bb_matt are also prone towards making unwarranted personal attacks, which more than justifies your categorisation as 'brain-dead'. Here's a challenge for both you and bb_matt - try to post something relevant directly concerning the issue being raised, make some constructive suggestions about how the situation may be resolved, and maybe your esteem in the eyes of others would grow, instead of being reduced by your brain-dead responses.
@pupa: If ever there was a case of a brain-dead response, these last of yours are surely it. Take note - the TK is a venerable institution in its own right, and has no overt agenda that serves to detract from this forum's objectives, other than to make sure it does not die. Seen in that light, it actually serves to promote, and not detract, from the development of this forum as a community. Read my original posting again, and all my subsequent responses - you clearly have some difficulty in deriving a basic understanding of that being said, much like some of the other brain-dead responses to this thread, which go on about aspects that don't address the main issue being raised.
Concerning my participation in non-broadband related threads, you will note that none of them have in fact been initiated by me - if anything, I have been hard put not to participate in some of those threads, if only to make it quite clear that alternative viewpoints do exist. However, the simple realisation that active participation would not serve to promote this forum's objectives, caused me to quell the urge to post.
You and bb_matt are also prone towards making unwarranted personal attacks, which more than justifies your categorisation as 'brain-dead'. Here's a challenge for both you and bb_matt - try to post something relevant directly concerning the issue being raised, make some constructive suggestions about how the situation may be resolved, and maybe your esteem in the eyes of others would grow, instead of being reduced by your brain-dead responses.
Reading Your respose is like water on a ducks back. I never called anybody names on any thread. The point is YOU have gripes on religion and politics and that is topics that is discussed here on threads You dont have to read or participate in. That Your agenda. Other posters can make up their own minds. I looked at posts, dont know whether You started any, but found no positive contributions, only highly skilled, heavily worded remarks (...........Removed........) . Much be a lecturer or sorts Did not check all Your post and wont waste my time on them either will rather talk politics with Tibby, he makes more sense. This is your only futile attemp I can see, for the last few weeks i'm on this forum where you tried to contribute something I though was great untill You showed Your true nature, when others posted on Your thread. You obviously did not read some of my posts where I requested some moderation. You obviously do not know I asked RPM for a gripe section that is why it is there......Anyway....enough time wasted on someone reluctend to admit he is what he call others to be. at best....and blame them for it. Really not worth the time and effort
The adding of new forums such as "Hardware", "Internet Security", "Consumerism" etc in the past couple of months have caused that those previous "off topic" threads be created in/moved to these new forums, and as a result made the "off topic" forum just that, off topic. This may be a reason for the view of some members that off topic has changed and is causing damage to myadsl's image.
IMO a possible solution for this perceived off topic "sabotage" is the creation of new sub forum(s) in the off topic section. This might help distinguishing between interesting member off topic posts and other repetitive same off topic threads.
mbs, most of the threads that you have a problem with and mentioned are South African news stories (except the Nina Swart one), so maybe the creation of a "Other South African news discussion" sub forum in "off topic" will make off topic more structured and not so susceptible to other members' agendas?
@pupa:........Take note - the TK is a venerable institution in its own right, and has no overt agenda that serves to detract from this forum's objectives, other than to make sure it does not die..
I am not as highly skilled as You in writing but the Venerable sound like something of a virus creating a disease.......
I'm not against the TK thread.....Love to read it........but point remains it is not broadband related. Stop trying to impose Your own hidden Hippocratic agendas here and let RPM decide what he wants to do after consulting with other sensible forum members....
You tried a great thing YOU screwed it UP with your attitude LOL
The adding of new forums such as "Hardware", "Internet Security", "Consumerism" etc in the past couple of months have caused that those previous "off topic" threads be created in/moved to these new forums, and as a result made the "off topic" forum just that, off topic. This may be a reason for the view of some members that off topic is damaging this site's image.
IMO a possible solution for this perceived off topic "sabotage" is the creation of new sub forum(s) in the off topic section. This might help distinguishing between interesting member off topic posts and other repetitive same topic threads.
mbs, most of the threads that you have a problem with and mentioned are South African news stories (except the Nina Swart one), so maybe the creation of a "Other South African news discussion" sub forum in "off topic" will make off topic more structured and not so susceptible to other members' agendas?
Agreed Adlo.......If only MBS would take the time to read all the other posts that followed and get the feel of what we say and take in something of it, it would be great. We love the forum as is and with structuring these issues can be solved. He rather retords(..Spelling ,Meaning ?) to highly skilled word to impress and attack with derrogetive remarks anything or anybody says he perceives as against his (High and Mighty) ideas. What a pityfull subject
On a lighter note looking at the reviews and posts, I wonder if this post qualify for one of the most contentious post with the most reply's in the shortest time span 73 posts and 740 views in 12Hr's20.. Maybe not but not bad for a quiet patch
...........You and bb_matt are also prone towards making unwarranted personal attacks, which more than justifies your categorisation as 'brain-dead'. Here's a challenge for both you and bb_matt - try to post something relevant directly concerning the issue being raised, make some constructive suggestions about how the situation may be resolved,(read some of the posts we made, here in this thread. PM me if you need glasses) and maybe your esteem in the eyes of others would grow, instead of being reduced by your brain-dead responses.
Here is some intellectual posts You started. You stated earlier You have never started any of these contentious type of posts. If this is not also brain-dead attempts ?? then I do not Know. I can only pray for You but I doubt if it will work. But the again it is a "Brain-dead" religious conation of a comment I just made Not. Rather change Your user name to Braindead and we will all be able to recognise and sympathise whenever You post. MBS sound to much like a bank or government institution....Who knows Who cares
Hell, Sentech - are you aware that you're creating a client base comprised of fat, drunken slobs?! If the number of posts from people who're using cantennas and boozetennas are anything to go by, you're worse than bloody Macdonalds - maybe you should come right out and say what your primary business really is...[:p][}:)]
Nobody even posted a answer. Goodness gracious me and he complains about others ???
See http://www.ictworld.co.za/EditorialEdit.asp?EditorialID=18334
Politics ????? Two answers, one was himself
As the moderators have locked the topic, apologies for having opened a new one, but I do see the need to provide some clarity on the statements made by posters, particularly the allegation that I have lied to the forum...
Too long to post but if I read between the lines I can see why this post is what it is
.
Here is the link if someone want to evaluate it for themselves. Definite not broadband but at least on subject of cell eaves dropping, some or the other
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=15702&page=2&pp=15
Whilst on the subject of thread stats... (http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/5902/icsnapshotsast200509260246037h.png)
Thanks IC.
It shows that then that the point is now belabored and need a rest from my side. Which would happen if MBS stops calling people names and make derrogative comments about their intelect, while he himself is not above board. Another problem I have is I go to bed late, or is it early, so have time to burn while having to argue about something I innocently said or commented on after a invite in his post, which if analyzed did not deserve his attitude. Even after RPM posted he had to have the last say which would not have been a problem If he did not call other posters braindead (as he may be).
I will give it a rest for now
Sorry Ic had more time to kill as I could not understand what happened here and did further analysis
As recent as 20/09/2005 mbs religious post
Here mbs is a very compassionate and helpful member towards another member who posted under "Lost (Religious post)" Reading this brought tears in my eyes...(.No Joking and NO sarcasm intended.......) I am sensitive regards to these issues. His answers and advice I find very interesting.
Point is Now he advocate against it and also this is not Broadband it is religious ??
Suggestion - try something non-Christian. There's the Q'uran and Bhagavhad Ghita as a start. All of this pre-supposes that you need a spiritual crutch, of course. If you really think about it, you'll find that crutch within yourself - when you reach that point, you'll have evolved spiritually and will find real peace. By the way, this forum has its own crutch - it's called the Thread Killer...
The last point, Was this sarcasm ???, relating this members feelings with the TK Thread. I hope he only tried to be light hearted and did not make a feable attempt to play with somebody's feelings, unless he refered to the poems on the TK thread (Which from above I deduce became his religiuos crutch)
Then later
It's evident that you have to define what your personal understanding of 'happiness' is, then pursue its realisation through whatever means, which is not necessarily religion - that route has no guarantees, especially for those with a questioning mind-set. At this stage of the game I see you've identified food and a slap on the back as things that make you feel 'happy'. Dig deeper - as I said earlier, look within yourself. For whatever you recognise as being your 'feel good' motivators, find the needed crutches to make those motivators the resultant. It can be as simple as a cause-and-effect relationship - there is no need to dwell on the meaning of life, the universe and everything. And guess what - you'll find that you've somehow or the other grown happier! Pop psychology 101...
So it seem we have a individual that needs our support to reject topics which he very actively supported himself as recent as 20/09/2005 here is link where he posted.
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=27702&page=1&pp=15
Now five days later he wants this stopped. I am dumbfounded. He suddenly had a flash of realism today ????????
Wants us to protect him from himself it seems. Goodness me what a can of worms
Since November 2003 this is mbs single best achievement for a response in any post 76 (now 77) against previous 20, so I can understand the overwhelming anxiety apparent in his reaction against his own belief, I think he turned against himself evident from above posts. His lonely crusade on MyADSL did not give him enough attention in the past.
Now I rest my case
bb_matt
26-09-2005, 06:37 AM
Thanx for your response, RPM - duly noted.
I think there's a case to be made for stricter moderation, as evidenced by some of the brain-dead responses on this very thread, not leastly a PM and personal attack by bb_matt, which I will not validate by bothering with a response or even by reporting as a bad post - forumites may judge for themselves.
Judge for yourselves, forumites, don't be blinded by the pomposity of this gentleman.
That he refuses to budge one inch on his viewpoint, even though he is clearly a hypocrite, is proof to me that we should completely ignore any of the points he has made, as they all ring hollow in the light of his hypocrisy.
For the sake of clarity, here's my so called "brain dead" "personal attack" PM to his holiness, mbs :-
What is your problem ?
You have clearly been caught out as a hypocrite, perhaps you should retract some of your statements ?
Are you man enough to make an apology, or will you use the power of overly complex sentences masquerading as intellectual ones to defend yourself ?
I apologised to you once for calling you arrogant (amongst other things) - as expected, I received no reply. What a big mistake I made.
It seems my gut feeling at the time was spot on.
I don't expect you will reply to this message and I don't expect you will make a statement in the thread you started that you may have been a bit 'heavy handed' with your opinions.
The reason for that, in my opinion, is simply because your sheer arrogance and intellectual prowess blinds you to the fact that there are people as intelligent as yourself with very different views on life and very different skills. You could be amongst the worst types of University Graduates - those who consider themselves intellectually superior due to extensive knowledge, failing to realise that knowledge is just part of the equation.
You have a lawyers perspective on the world, I don't feel I need to go into further detail there as I have very little respect for lawyers in general, even though I am aware that the profession is essential and does include some of the most outstanding examples of selfless individuals.
But hey, who cares, as you very well know, this is a free world. If you want to be a closed minded arrogant show off, you have every right to do so.
Regardless of what you say in your defence, failure to issue at least a small apology in the thread you started will indicate to the majority of forumites that you are indeed a hypocrite.
If you have read to this point of this PM, then I have achieved my goal - and remember one key fact, I KNOW I'm fallible and I know I've made an idiot of myself plenty of times on this forum and in all my dealings on this fair planet.
The difference is I can admit it and carry on, possibly to repeat the idiotic perfomance, but hey, who cares as long as you have fun ?
bb_matt ! Spot On again .
I had no sleep yet, to much to do but decided not to rest till I exposed mr holiness. Read my previous thread with his religious connotations as recently as 6 days ago. A bl@@dy shame. I must admit his initial way of using word intrigued me, until I read most of his posts and thread starters. Everybody that differ just slightly is Brain-dead. But my believe is he did not get enough attention on this form for his worthless posts therefore the arrogance.
Kropotkin
26-09-2005, 08:04 AM
- Do you agree/disagree that political, racist, religious and sexist threads detract from this forum's objectives?Disagree
Do you agree/disagree that mods should actively moderate such threads, in pursuance of this forum's objectives?Disagree
But I'll disagree with anything just to disagree (Yes, I know it's childish)
tibby.dude
26-09-2005, 08:36 AM
Well it is clear that this forum has evolved WAY beyond it's original charter i.e discussing telecoms issues to other issues important to the members.
I would hazard a guess and say that most of us now participate not because of broadband issues but for the conversations in the off topic section.
But if the moderators/owner of the forum feels uncomfortable with this state of affairs then it is their call and let us know so that we take our off-topic banter to another place.
The adding of new forums such as "Hardware", "Internet Security", "Consumerism" etc in the past couple of months have caused that those previous "off topic" threads be created in/moved to these new forums, and as a result made the "off topic" forum just that, off topic. This may be a reason for the view of some members that off topic has changed and is causing damage to myadsl's image.
IMO a possible solution for this perceived off topic "sabotage" is the creation of new sub forum(s) in the off topic section. This might help distinguishing between interesting member off topic posts and other repetitive same off topic threads.
mbs, most of the threads that you have a problem with and mentioned are South African news stories (except the Nina Swart one), so maybe the creation of a "Other South African news discussion" sub forum in "off topic" will make off topic more structured and not so susceptible to other members' agendas?
That might work - thanx for the helpful suggestion, as opposed to the interminable crap originating from others (which, much like the non-broadband threads referred to, does no good to this forum's image and demonstrates clearly that there's nobody home). However, it would ultimately be up to the mods to decide, based on whatever the poll findings are - the same thing applies to the suggestion made by bwana...
Disagree
Disagree
But I'll disagree with anything just to disagree (Yes, I know it's childish)
Heehee - aahh, so you're the o.1% that normally swims against the tide on the home-page polls! :)
I would hazard a guess and say that most of us now participate not because of broadband issues but for the conversations in the off topic section.
That's a fair comment, and possibly motivation for another poll, to establish if this is indeed so. If proven to be true, then it provides even more impetous for non-broadband related threads to be ring-fenced somehow away from the main forum, as it detracts from and impacts negatively on forum objectives, as I've noted originally...
That might work - thanx for the helpful suggestion, as opposed to the interminable crap originating from others (which, much like the non-broadband threads referred to, does no good to this forum's image and demonstrates clearly that there's nobody home). However, it would ultimately be up to the mods to decide, based on whatever the poll findings are - the same thing applies to the suggestion made by bwana...
You started the crap Geez still arrogant and demeaning. Read between the lines Bro. Untill a few days ago You were very active in the non broadband threads as everybody can see Now You castrate yourselve to let other believe the contrary. Rather look at Your postings and admit They are crap with no content or value.
That's a fair comment, and possibly motivation for another poll, to establish if this is indeed so. If proven to be true, then it provides even more impetous for non-broadband related threads to be ring-fenced somehow away from the main forum, as it detracts from and impacts negatively on forum objectives, as I've noted originally...
Apart from Braindead You also go poll madd to change what You have no power off
@pupa - cease and desist: you have unsurprisingly contributed nothing positive to the discussion, and will go the way of lilgindauk if you're not careful. Take the previous suggestion made to you and bb_matt to heart instead, and try to get on the same page...
@pupa - cease and desist: you have unsurprisingly contributed nothing positive to the discussion, and will go the way of lilgindauk if you're not careful. Take the previous suggestion made to you and bb_matt to heart instead, and try to get on the same page...
Do You think I would care, I dot not know who or what You speak about But get Your friends to ban us. I can only see this thread die with guys like YOU that is Demeaning , Derrogative Insulting whatever...
You started the crap with Your demeaning Remark. LOL
@pupa - cease and desist: you have unsurprisingly contributed nothing positive to the discussion, and will go the way of lilgindauk if you're not careful. Take the previous suggestion made to you and bb_matt to heart instead, and try to get on the same page...
Large words for someone that had no contribution to other threads I've seen last night, Never the least in this one
Sorry Ic had more time to kill as I could not understand what happened here and did further analysis
As recent as 20/09/2005 mbs religious post
Here mbs is a very compassionate and helpful member towards another member who posted under "Lost (Religious post)" Reading this brought tears in my eyes...(.No Joking and NO sarcasm intended.......) I am sensitive regards to these issues. His answers and advice I find very interesting.
Point is Now he advocate against it and also this is not Broadband it is religious ??
Suggestion - try something non-Christian. There's the Q'uran and Bhagavhad Ghita as a start. All of this pre-supposes that you need a spiritual crutch, of course. If you really think about it, you'll find that crutch within yourself - when you reach that point, you'll have evolved spiritually and will find real peace. By the way, this forum has its own crutch - it's called the Thread Killer... The last point Was this sarcasm ???
Then later
It's evident that you have to define what your personal understanding of 'happiness' is, then pursue its realisation through whatever means, which is not necessarily religion - that route has no guarantees, especially for those with a questioning mind-set. At this stage of the game I see you've identified food and a slap on the back as things that make you feel 'happy'. Dig deeper - as I said earlier, look within yourself. For whatever you recognise as being your 'feel good' motivators, find the needed crutches to make those motivators the resultant. It can be as simple as a cause-and-effect relationship - there is no need to dwell on the meaning of life, the universe and everything. And guess what - you'll find that you've somehow or the other grown happier! Pop psychology 101...
So it seem we have a individual that needs our support to reject topics which he very actively supported himself as recent as 20/09/2005 here is link where he posted.
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=27702&page=1&pp=15
Now five days later he wants this stopped. I am dumbfounded. Suddenly had a flash of realism today ????????
Wants us to protect him from himself it seems Goodness me what a can of worms
Since November 2003 this is mbs single best achievement for a response in any post 76 (now 77) against previous 20, so I can understand the overwhelming anxiety apparent in his reaction against his own belief, I think he turned against himself evident from above posts.
Now I rest my case
bb_matt
26-09-2005, 09:02 AM
Take the previous suggestion made to you and bb_matt to heart instead, and try to get on the same page...
By that, you mean YOUR page. Give it a rest already.
I have noted with some despair the deliberate sabotage of the MyADSL forum goals and objectives
How on earth can you deduce that these are deliberate attempts to sabotage ?
That's a long shot by anyones standards.
My personal perception is that the MyADSL image has in fact deteriorated since I joined just over two years ago
Once again, YOUR opinion. Obviously your entitled to it, but don't confuse it with everone elses reality.
from this forum's objectives?
But what are these forums objectives ?
Certainly one of the objectives is to advance telecomms, but I quote from the "About us" page :-
MyADSL was formed in 2003 to serve as a source of information and a place where broadband users can discuss issues openly and share information.
Yes, admittedly it mentions broadband and by and large, that's what is discussed here, along with other related IT issues. However, Off Topic was created for "everything else" and you have actively participated in the Off Topic threads.
I await responses with interest...
You await responses YOU agree with and call the rest "brain dead"
Take the blinkers off, this isn't all about YOU, it's about a community and one which thankfully is mostly against the type of censorship you would prefer.
We do get the picture, mbs, despite being "brain dead", it's just that not all of us agree with the content of your initial post and not all of us are going to pander to your expectations.
I will remove all my crap if You apologize for You arrogance and demeaning behaviour
Seems to me You got fed Preaching and Playing (On TK) and now try to find a new throne to sit on
Even the moderators is actively posting in the OFF LIMMIT threads. See
Nina Swart Post
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=19739
So You See mbs You really p@ssed us off. Apologize and put a End to this. But then again we already read that taking ownership of Your mess and Apologise is not in Your backbone therefore Your comments against BB_matt and then to me
@pupa and bb_matt:
So, am I to accept that:
1. You don't believe there is a problem with this forum's image;
2. You don't believe non-broadband issues detract from this forum's objectives;
2. You are not in favour of holding the polls as originally suggested and perhaps another based on tibby's point; and
3. You would like the forum's structure to stay as is?
Simple answers to these simple questions will suffice, which is all that was originally necessary...
bb_matt
26-09-2005, 09:27 AM
Simple answers to these simple questions will suffice, which is all that was originally necessary...
Again, it's all down to YOU. Your request would've been perfectly acceptable, if it wasn't for the opinionated introduction to it, where you rambled on about what is and isn't acceptable practice.
Now you want to squeeze all that down into the above questions and have us ignore your opinionated ramble ?
Sorry, it doesn't work that way, I don't fall into your expectations, but for the record (and my last post here - more important things to do today) :-
1. Only if it contains a lot of personal attacks
2. There are MANY other types of topics discussed here, if you don't know how to use a forum properly, I suggest you learn - it's called being selective
3. I don't see any need for a poll - this thread is your opinion, not the opinion of the people who run the place
4. I like the forum the way it is.
There's your simple answers.
Next time, post a simple question !
Yikes, there's just so much Pot and Kettle flying around here today ...
@pupa and bb_matt:
So, am I to accept that:
1. You don't believe there is a problem with this forum's image;
2. You don't believe non-broadband issues detract from this forum's objectives;
2. You are not in favour of holding the polls as originally suggested and perhaps another based on tibby's point; and
3. You would like the forum's structure to stay as is?
Simple answers to these simple questions will suffice, which is all that was originally necessary...
Dont change the issue and throw this back at us. You got out of context. At the moment this thread in null and void untill You apologize for Your behaviour, I delete all my crap and we will answer the questions. Go back and read all my previous posts the last three weeks and see where I come from. My original Post here is and remain valid, it gave You aswers but you are to much of a imbisil to read ,understand and remember. You are the problem with Your own forum image, everything ran fine till You posted, It was fine, you invited response, we were the first to give it a answer in GOOD faith and then YOU attacked our credentials and Agendas. You Participated in ALL the posted Threads YOU want to ban. So get You act right. Do what a man will do. APOLOGIZE and this can become normal. Accept there can be differences in opinion. Yours does not make it the YES and the AMEN because YOU use HIGH words and think everybody else is crap. JUST TO GET YOUR OWN AGENDA POSTED. You will not succeed to FORCE your principles that Changed in the last few days on 6000 other forumites with your ATTITUDE All forumites should read this whole post to see the make of You
craigsa
26-09-2005, 09:44 AM
Guys in the interest of the forum lets just drop it. We have different views to MBS but he also has a right to post here as long as no insults are thrown. I think the majority have spoken and RPM sets the standard here. RPM has spoken and we will accept what he has said. I dont agree with MBS but he does have every right to post here. :)
Have a lekker Monday boyz
Guys in the interest of the forum lets just drop it. We have different views to MBS but he also has a right to post here as long as no insults are thrown. I think the majority have spoken and RPM sets the standard here. RPM has spoken and we will accept what he has said. I dont agree with MBS but he does have every right to post here. :)
Have a lekker Monday boyz
Craig we all agree He started the demeaning insults to people that gave answers to a post and continued after RPM spoke in the same manner and is not man enough to admit it and apologize. I do want this to end. It is upo to him depending where his B@lls are. Man or Maid
craigsa
26-09-2005, 10:00 AM
:)
stoke
26-09-2005, 10:05 AM
Story time ...
1000 people go out for lunch to discuss broadband.
Concensus is formed on some broadband issues, and then related issued come up.
Caveman says - Good.
The next thing you know there's headed debate concerning somebody's choice of car colour.
Caveman says - so what ?
Then there's a heated debate concerning the topic of the last heated argument.
Caveman says - so what ?
People who have never really participated in the discussions begin to get involved in the arguments.
Caveman says - our clan be getting bigger.
5 of these people get into a huge fistfight - blood everywhere. Once the fight is over, the entire clan reels in the shock and offer support to the wounded, but in a non "choosing personal sides" way.
Caveman says - clan good - clan understanding - clan can help each other.
Some clan members are so shocked at the violence of the fistfight that they run to caveman and beg for caveman to prevent the violence from ever happening again.
Caveman says - How ? Caveman explains that it is natural and that it cannot be stopped. Caveman explains that passionate people must grow through their passion's, and not be forced to ignore their passions.
1500 people go out for lunch to discuss broadband.
Concensus is quickly reached on most broadband issues.
Caveman says - Good.
The discussions now lead to other topics.
Caveman says - Good.
There is heated debate concerning the choice of nail file to be used by rich people as opposed to the nail file used by beavers.
Caveman says - So what.
.....
10 people get into a huge fistfight ...
Get my drift ?
i.e: It does not matter. When we need to pull together to take some real action, we will, and we'll know more about each other, and it will not make a difference - the aim is the same - remain informed on broadband issues, and take action when called for.
craigsa
26-09-2005, 10:08 AM
:)
@pupa: your response merely reinforces what most probably think of you by now - another brain-dead lilgindauk.
@bb_matt: thanx for your replies - your stance is clear. Now, let's address one issue at a time:
"1. Only if it contains a lot of personal attacks"
Can only agree 150%. For this particular thread, take note of the point of origin. To remain true to your stance, consider amending your sig.
"2. There are MANY other types of topics discussed here, if you don't know how to use a forum properly, I suggest you learn - it's called being selective"
As noted in my original and subsequent postings, that is precisely the problem, and has caused the perception that this forum is not a focussed one and does not have a suitably professional image. The non-broadband threads that focus on issues outside of broadband have caused this, and the selection mechanisms in the forum structure apportion equal weight to their presence - it is this that needs to be addressed, but only with majority support, as noted by rpm.
"3. I don't see any need for a poll - this thread is your opinion, not the opinion of the people who run the place"
There are those who concur with my viewpoint, as evidenced by their postings in this thread and elsewhere. How better to resolve the issue, other than with a poll?
"4. I like the forum the way it is."
Sure, and there are those who would agree with you. However, this does not address the issue noted in (2) above. Any suggestions?
Story time ...
i.e: It does not matter. When we need to pull together to take some real action, we will, and we'll know more about each other, and it will not make a difference - the aim is the same - remain informed on broadband issues, and take action when called for.
*chuckle* Great analogy, stoke - can't be as Blue as you aver, obviously. We've now reached the point where some action needs to be taken, imho - hence this thread...
*chuckle* Great analogy, stoke - can't be as Blue as you aver, obviously. We've now reached the point where some action needs to be taken, imho - hence this thread...
I agree fully. Thats the moderators Job Thank G@D mbs is not a moderator, he will be talking to himself all day
RichardP
26-09-2005, 10:37 AM
LMAO!!!! who is gonna throw the next punch?! I love this thread.. so mature and adult-like ;-) Cant you kids play nicely? I gotta say, my 5yr old daughter knows more on compromises and sharing than some chaps in here.
Moderators are not here to be everyones friend... they are ruthless and hold an objective view to topics in a discussion.The moderators/owners need to nail down the rules, otherwise the forum is just a popularity contest.
Richard
-------------
Deal with it! life is not allways a bowl of roses.
craigsa
26-09-2005, 10:42 AM
Compromise ? Not a word we South Africans like !!:)
I agree fully. Thats the moderators Job Thank G@D mbs is not a moderator, he will be talking to himself all day
If you agree fully, you then agree that some action needs to be taken concerning the issues raised in my original post, and that moderation is warranted. You could start with some self-moderation, and not derail other threads through copy/paste actions - you continue to prove your undeniable worth to this forum, much like a kidney-stone that needs to be passed out...
Moderators are not here to be everyones friend... they are ruthless and hold an objective view to topics in a discussion.The moderators/owners need to nail down the rules, otherwise the forum is just a popularity contest.
*chuckle* Quite right - hence my original and subsequent postings about this forum's image being tarnished by non-broadband threads, and for which some relevant polls are warranted to guide moderator actions...
stoke
26-09-2005, 10:55 AM
/me agree'z that mebbe there is a need for better policing [On this forum].
/me recons that one of the problems is that moderators cannot be everywhere at once.
So - Instead of :
A - The moderator checks in now and then, and scans through some of the posts in their responsibile areas, and fixes problem areas with warnings to all peeps involved, including the peeps that reply to insitgators.
Advertise and utilise:
B - The moderator only takes action having recieved 2 complaints from different aliases concerning one thread, and then fixes problem within said thread areas with warnings to all peeps involved, including the peeps that reply to insitgators.
i.e. Involve the community in the Policing, and let moderators only respond to community driven complaints.
@pupa: your response merely reinforces what most probably think of you by now - another brain-dead lilgindauk.
-Well You realy seem to be a hippocrite
-You are no man, canot apologize, Like bb_matt said before on another encouter with him
- From Your posts I deduce have no religion
-Are a Imbisil, thick skulled
-High words with little substance or intelect
-Cannot count
Cannot read.. Maybe only selectively
Read my post You so convenently slandered and You will see my stance Unlike You mine dont change daily ( SEE where you posted the last few days)
@bb_matt: thanx for your replies - your stance is clear. Now, let's address one issue at a time:
"1. Only if it contains a lot of personal attacks"
Can only agree 150%. For this particular thread, take note of the point of origin. (That was with You Dumb ass) I To remain true to your stance, consider amending your sig.
"2. There are MANY other types of topics discussed here, if you don't know how to use a forum properly, I suggest you learn - it's called being selective"
As noted in my original and subsequent postings, that is precisely the problem, and has caused the perception that this forum is not a focussed one and does not have a suitably professional image. The non-broadband threads (Where you and the moderators enjoyed Youselves- Ass that focus on issues outside of broadband have caused this, and the selection mechanisms in the forum structure apportion equal weight to their presence - it is this that needs to be addressed, but only with majority support, as noted by rpm. ( Thats Good By Majority Everybody have their opinion and do not prescribe to Ic what he must questin in the poll Let RPM decide)
"3. I don't see any need for a poll - this thread is your opinion, not the opinion of the people who run the place"
There are those who concur with my viewpoint, ( Count the ass You are using this what You started as example)as evidenced by their postings in this thread and elsewhere. How better to resolve the issue, other than with a poll?
"4. I like the forum the way it is."
Sure, and there are those who would agree with you. However, this does not address the issue noted in (2) above. Any suggestions?
( The only Issue here is that YOU suddenly became holy is six days and are trying to smear Your opinion down on other by looking for crap to strenthen Your Point)
Now I will go down as low as You imbisil.You are not man enough to admit your part in this,You have no substance and on top of it are thick skulled as well,You starterd the degrading remarks to those oppose to Your own opinionated viewpointshowing Your low intelect with learned words, You cant count nor read, only selectively, You are probably a low class teacher , politician and definit citizen. Goodness This was fun and I am still laughing
Hi RPM
Sorry for the unhappiness I was part of in this forum. Sadly I thinks it is better to part from a Great forum, I thought I could make my home as It is close to my interests. Unfortunately I got involved with arguments when Slimothy and Kei and Kie kept on hammering You Then again with Kalvaer on some naming issues when he thought I was slandering You, This misunderstanding is now cleared. Now with high and mighty mbs with his derogative comments and direct attack on personal intellect. He also had issues in the past with members and apart from Ic I saw no concrete support for his own Agenda. Up to a few days ago he willingly and actively enjoyed to posts he wants to ban, preaching to Noone and argue political opinions, Suddenly had a change of heart and forcingly try to smear his views and opinions on everybody. Ban all the posts against his new found principles. except the TK thread which he claims as his religious crutch.
Thus it seems I do not fit here. I am sorry to say I had great hopes for future involvement with MyADSL as time progress, but seemingly that is not ever possible while You have biased moderators seeming to take sides with mbs strengthening the attitude of mr Almighty. He threatened a few times what the moderators will do to us and what path we will take if we disagree with his principles
Therefore at your own discretion please remove me fro participating again as I will attack anybody and everybody that cannot withhold themselves to drop to the lowest point in life to make his point clear like mbs did by degrading remarks and calling everybody opposed to his new found mission as Brandead. Typical of a low class, unwanted, attention deprived politician . I will pray for him but in think he had it.
regards
Chris
c'mon guys, what happened to playing the argument, not the man?
/me liberally hands out anti-flame gel to all in need
craigsa
26-09-2005, 11:11 AM
Guys come on man i am getting so sick and tired of people threatening to leave the forum because of arguments or because things dont always go their way. Come on man grow up suck it in and carry on. :)
@Pupa, please read and make use of this info - click here... (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/announcement.php?f=87)
This is typical of biased opinions of moderators refering me to bad post examples but not the imbisil that started it all. Ic You definatly dissapointed me. I also read these so called examples but with Your ovely biased opinions and friendship with some forumite makes you impartial. I understand now th whole issue with Slimothy, Kei and all the others recently. As prove off Your impartialness I would have like to see where you refered mr mbs to these sites. To be pridictable I will state here You will remove my posts and leave thos off mbs intact as was done before.
bwana
26-09-2005, 11:12 AM
/me agree'z that mebbe there is a need for better policing [On this forum].
/me recons that one of the problems is that moderators cannot be everywhere at once.
So - Instead of :
A - The moderator checks in now and then, and scans through some of the posts in their responsibile areas, and fixes problem areas with warnings to all peeps involved, including the peeps that reply to insitgators.
Advertise and utilise:
B - The moderator only takes action having recieved 2 complaints from different aliases concerning one thread, and then fixes problem within said thread areas with warnings to all peeps involved, including the peeps that reply to insitgators.
i.e. Involve the community in the Policing, and let moderators only respond to community driven complaints.That could work but I think the proper initial action to that would be for the mod to invite the individual concerned to first self-moderate the post and only censor as a last resort after giving the individual being censured the opportunity to defend his/her position.
/me recons that one of the problems is that moderators cannot be everywhere at once.
Too true - I think this point came out elsewhere in another thread as well (the Cele saga?).
i.e. Involve the community in the Policing, and let moderators only respond to community driven complaints.
The trouble with this approach is that we're too much of a diverse community, witness the painful presence of the brain-dead lilgindauk wannabe. This suggests that some standards need to be set, or else the forum needs to be structured either systemically or mechanistically or both, so as not to cause non-broadband threads to enjoy equal prominence with broadband issues, which causes problems with the forum's image and professional regard in the eyes of others. I see this as a real problem that needs to be addressed rather urgently, particularly in view of the potential for an ever-increasing public eyeball (SNO issues, USAL issues, VANS issues, wireless issues, convergence issues, etc.). Unless somebody comes up with a compelling argument that will cause rpm and the mods to take immediate action, we should hold some polls on this issue...
c'mon guys, what happened to playing the argument, not the man?
/me liberally hands out anti-flame gel to all in need
Refer that query to High an Almighty mbs and as Slimothy correctly claimed partial moderator. Very subtle to be unotice sending me bad post examples and statitistics on post i made. Yet the same moderator and mbs partocipated willingly up to today and in the last six days in posts taht is noe abusive and damaging.
Too true - I think this point came out elsewhere in another thread as well (the Cele saga?).
The trouble with this approach is that we're too much of a diverse community, witness the painful presence of the brain-dead lilgindauk wannabe. This suggests that some standards need to be set, or else the forum needs to be structured either systemically or mechanistically or both, so as not to cause non-broadband threads to enjoy equal prominence with broadband issues, which causes problems with the forum's image and professional regard in the eyes of others. I see this as a real problem that needs to be addressed rather urgently, particularly in view of the potential for an ever-increasing public eyeball (SNO issues, USAL issues, VANS issues, wireless issues, convergence issues, etc.). Unless somebody comes up with a compelling argument that will cause rpm and the mods to take immediate action, we should hold some polls on this issue...
You wer part of this untill Yesterday ...The G@ds must be grazy give this Oke brains please
You are such a imbisil You do not realize You are talking about Yourselve. Were You not the wannabe in disguise ???????? I wonder
bb_matt
26-09-2005, 11:25 AM
Ok, so I lied - another post, this time forgetting about all the crud that's been written and sharing my opinions, take them or leave them.
Lets analyse exactly what a person sees when they go directly to the main MyADSL site, go there now and check, then return here.
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/nephp/
Notice anything ?
Yes, I thought so, the dire predictions that people may get the wrong message fall flat, because the forum is NOT the public face of MyADSL, the homepage is !
It presents a highly professional face.
Waaaaay down at the bottom, we'll find the "Latest Forum Topics"
So, it really is very simple to overcome any possible concerns that MyADSL may be promoting the wrong message.
1. Remove the "Latest Forum Topics" from the bottom of the page
2. Have a mandatory disclaimer as a front page for the forums - any link from the main page of the site goes to the disclaimer first. That disclaimer would contain the standard "not responsible for the comments made" and a link through to the forum rules.
It's really that simple !
You CANNOT judge MyADSL just on the forum contents, it's a much bigger picture than that.
Agreed ?
Peapod
26-09-2005, 11:28 AM
@bb_matt : wholeheartedly agree
@pupa: it is spelled "imbecile"
what was this thread about again?
Agreed ?
To an extent, yes. But again, a potential systemic/mechanistic solution, which utlimately remains the prerogative of rpm. The point is that I have picked up the perception that this forum is seen with less regard than it deserves - that's an image problem. It is also seen as being somewhat 'unprofessional' - that's an issue of focus. Cause of all this? Non-broadband threads with subject matter alluded to in my original post. Way to fix? Start by assessing the opinion of forum members regarding the problem, to ascertain whether some conscious action is warranted.
@bb_matt : wholeheartedly agree
@pupa: it is spelled "imbecile"
what was this thread about again?
Hi welcome back
Hi Peapod I wish I had Your dictionary. (Ek is breindood vra mbs) See the first few threads where mbs had a change of heart, religion and integrity and now wants to ban all off topic threads not meeting his newly found principles. He did participate preaching and arguing forthe last few days untill yersterday when lightning oe internal brainwave hit him and now he wants to change everything
stoke
26-09-2005, 11:36 AM
Kewl -
Poll 1:
Do you agree that we should change the forum policy so that this is included:
- You may not attack a peep personally.
- You may not respond to a personal attack, nor comment on a personal attack.
- You must report personal attacks to nnnnn.
This will effectively stop mud slinging in it's tracks.
Poll 2:
The banning procedure regarding personal attacks should be as follows:
1 - Warning is issued to perpetrator, and perpetrator must then fix own post, and apologise to the attacked person. Failure to do so will result in lifetime ban for that alias and email address. Any firther attacks result in instant lifetime banning.
2 - Perpetrator is immediately banned and offending post is deleted.
3 - Another option with different timeperiods and stuff.
NOTE - My proposal means that mud slinging will get all slinging parties banned, and this must be made clear everywhere.
To an extent, yes. But again, a potential systemic/mechanistic solution, which utlimately remains the prerogative of rpm. The point is that I have picked up the perception that this forum is seen with less regard than it deserves - that's an image problem. It is also seen as being somewhat 'unprofessional' - that's an issue of focus. Cause of all this? Non-broadband threads with subject matter alluded to in my original post. Way to fix? Start by assessing the opinion of forum members regarding the problem, to ascertain whether some conscious action is warranted.
Refer to Your original thread Dont twist the word of bb_matt to suit Your agenda
bb_matt
26-09-2005, 11:41 AM
Well, the fact is, even the main page of the forum itself doesn't immediately present a problem with the forum.
I think your placing too much emphasis on the fact that people would view it the same as you do. If it's a company or organisation like ICASA visiting, should they click on the forums section from the main page, they will get a standard listing of topics. That is the main entry point.
Exactly why would they go directly to "Off Topic" ?
Three reasons come to mind, firstly because they want to participate in Off Topic discussions, secondly out of curiosity and thirdly, an ulterior motive, such as searching for slander as an effort to bring MyADSL into disrepute.
What I'm trying to say, is that not everyone enters the forums the way you or I may enter it, especially not first time visitors or people not logged in.
If your not logged in, you don't even get the "New Posts" - you get a "Today's Posts" link.
As a further measure for additional protection over and above a mandatory disclaimer forum entry page, would be to not list "Off Topic" in "New Posts" or "Today's Posts"
I think you already mentioned that.
Kewl -
NOTE - My proposal means that mud slinging will get all slinging parties banned, and this must be made clear everywhere.
*chortle* - the slings and arrows of good ol' Bill Shakes?
But you've partially missed the point, stoke ol' chap - it's not really about waterlogged dirt posted by anybody, but about fixing perceptions concerning this forum's image, attributable to non-broadband content. Sure, the mud also detracts from a nice shiny image, but that can always be cleaned off. The problem is when acid is thrown, which leaves a permanent stain or mark...
The entire off topic section (with the exception of the beloved TK) is a waste of space imo.
But to answer your questiona, mbs:
- Do you agree/disagree that political, racist, religious and sexist threads detract from this forum's objectives?
* Agree
Something I saw on another forum is a "forum of dewm". Simple concept - instead of deleting/locking threads they just get moved to this read-only forum. It makes everything more transparent and disposes of unwanted threads. Threads like those mentioned above should go straight there, no questions asked. In particular anything with the words BEE, Christianity, etc...
- Do you agree/disagree that mods should actively moderate such threads, in pursuance of this forum's objectives?
* Agree
Dewm on you! Dewm on you! </taikwandodo>
Edit: Just read BB_Matt's post on the previous page and I guess its a good point. I think I'll just not bother to click on the "Off Topic" link ever again and watch the annoyance fade away.
I fully agree with this poll. I supported it when I many times refered to is is the three strike rule. This was when the issue with Slim ond others were ongoing and I asked for the gripe thread. I had no hidden agendas. I did not paticipate willingly in threads that now must be banned due to change of personal priciples in a few days. What a laugh.
The original agenda was to get rid of the off topic forum, now conveniantly with specialised wording its is twisted to make people believe there was only asked for better moderatin.
I will refrain from here-on to use slander as started by mbs untill my account is closed
Good luck
I think you already mentioned that.
Yup. There's another potentially problematic issue, though - the search function on the home-page, which could return a non-broadband thread result. Coupled to this, the fact that Google's crawlers will register all the non-broadband related threads with equal weighting in the Google engine intially, as I understand it. Seems as though a systemic/mechanistic approach will not be as easy as it seems...
craigsa
26-09-2005, 11:56 AM
Listen guys for the 10000th time :
If you dont like the "off topic" section , stop reading it. You guys who are complaining are like old ladies.
*chortle* - the slings and arrows of good ol' Bill Shakes?
But you've partially missed the point, stoke ol' chap - it's not really about waterlogged dirt posted by anybody, but about fixing perceptions concerning this forum's image, attributable to non-broadband content. Sure, the mud also detracts from a nice shiny image, but that can always be cleaned off. The problem is when acid is thrown, which leaves a permanent stain or mark...
You were part of preaching a few days ago as religion and yerterday in politics and also today with Your remarks. Now You play the ""saint"" and I laugh my butt off LOL
Yup. There's another potentially problematic issue, though - the search function on the home-page, which could return a non-broadband thread result. Coupled to this, the fact that Google's crawlers will register all the non-broadband related threads with equal weighting in the Google engine intially, as I understand it. Seems as though a systemic/mechanistic approach will not be as easy as it seems...
Another useless suggestion No search function. Goodness me Stop dreaming man Wake Up Your agenda is now realy boring You are twisting BB_Matt's comments cleverly Yep agreeing then suggest another Agenda as if he agreed to it This is fun. Ban me please
RichardP
26-09-2005, 12:01 PM
Listen guys for the 10000th time :
If you dont like the "off topic" section , stop reading it. You guys who are complaining are like old ladies.
I give up ... go for it! dont moderate - as craigsa said, dont read it...
as in telecoms, there is a Signal to noise ratio... when the noise is greater than the signal, its useless - no matter how good the signal is.
Richard
Listen guys for the 10000th time :
If you dont like the "off topic" section , stop reading it You guys who are complaining are like old ladies.
Good advice but:
The forum is actively encouraging visitors to register. Why? So that it becomes an even stronger mouthpiece of SA Broadband. If more than half the forumites register to participate in the off topic threads (which are apparently very popular but have nothing to do with broadband) it devalues our voice.
craigsa
26-09-2005, 12:10 PM
I give up ... go for it! dont moderate - as craigsa said, dont read it...
as in telecoms, there is a Signal to noise ratio... when the noise is greater than the signal, its useless - no matter how good the signal is.
Richard
When did i say dont moderate ? I never said that , what i said was that the off topic section is for everything off topic. If you want to keep everything here just about broadband , this forum will die a quick death.
Please guys read the comments of people here in full and dont just comment on specific statements and then take them out of context.
I give up ... go for it! dont moderate - as craigsa said, dont read it...
as in telecoms, there is a Signal to noise ratio... when the noise is greater than the signal, its useless - no matter how good the signal is.
Richard
Richard I made a valid comment lower down in this thread which is the crux of the problem, it dissapeared for the exact reason following. Not even mbs picked it up as it is not part of his agenda, that is to rid of the Off Topic section he enjoyes so much. The system is fine the problem is with the "New posts""
function only on the main page and not per forum. Therefore with the increased popularity of this forum the New Posts is so fast that the info dissapear before someone can see it. More people use this as their entry point. Eventually we will be clickining in K(click)ps to keep up. This need to be aressed. Have a new posts for each forum and main section. Then people will only see what they want.
@RichardP and craigsa:
You miss the point, which really has absolutely nothing to do with whether the 'Off topic' thread is read or not. To reiterate: it has to do with this forum's image and the perception of others that it is not what it should be despite its clear objectives, and caused by non-broadband subject threads. Yes, one does not have to read the 'Off topic' thread, but the reality is that people do, and form perceptions based on what they find there. To avoid the negative impact caused by some content, we would be well advised to address this issue with some definitive action and moderation of sorts, even if only to really think about it, before opening non-broadband threads. As I say again, hold a poll...
LoneGunman
26-09-2005, 12:15 PM
Heh, this is the first time I noticed this thread - people seem to be expending an awful lot of energy on something, I'm not too sure what it is that's being argued about - but as long as its keeping everyone happy and thinking that what they're yelling about, is important, then fine
(I notice btw that the Forum itself is working quite well :)
@RichardP and craigsa:
You miss the point, which really has absolutely nothing to do with whether the 'Off topic' thread is read or not. To reiterate: it has to do with this forum's image and the perception of others that it is not what it should be despite its clear objectives, and caused by non-broadband subject threads. Yes, one does not have to read the 'Off topic' thread, but the reality is that people do, and form perceptions based on what they find there. To avoid the negative impact caused by some content, we would be well advised to address this issue with some definitive action and moderation of sorts, even if only to really think about it, before opening non-broadband threads. As I say again, hold a poll...
Now again disagree with everybody after twisting the original post for a poll request to suit his agenda, You harmed this forum more in the last two days than what i have seen in three weeks with all postings. You also partook in the image creation You suddenly hammer on. read the lines We dont want Your poll and wording Leave that to RPM. He has more integrity and substance than we all. You did not stay with His request and answer in his post in this thread You continued pushing your now worn out agenda.. Get it
Simple Twist Of Fate
26-09-2005, 12:23 PM
Points noted:)
my comments are that it would be a sad day if "off topic" became "off limits".
however perhaps the length of the posts could be limited, only to save costs though.
Freedom of expression is important and often it is better that ppl talk about such and certain issues that are bugging them????
We all have different viewpoints and we all the the right to those views, but the responsibilty as well of not trying to "shove one down someones throat".
Personal attacks are not a good thing for this forum, as in its nature they tend to divide instead of "bonding us together".
IMO if the owners of this forum decided that certain subjects them selves were "verboden" and placed them "off limits" it would in itself remove freedom of expression.
For myself I find other ppl viewpoints interetsting, a good read, I might not want to comment however or reply even if i disagreed, as the subjescts of "Religion" "Politics" and the 'sacrament of marriage" and others are deeply personal matters and I do not always like to air my views on a public forum.
This is especially true when one is known to others and does not hide behind a false nick or is a troll.
anyway that my thoughts.................. smoke it .......... dont smoke it
Hi MBS
Thanks for raising this important issue. We have indeed seen an increase in the amount of non-broadband-related and even aggressive discussion on this board. That is what the Off-Topic section is there for and it is therefore difficult to justify the moderation of these discussions as long as there are no complaints.
This is however only one part of the issue. There are some members that are arguably actively trying to harm this forum and its reputation, which is an even thornier issue. Up to now we have tolerated this behavior and most likely will do so in future, but is this the best decision for MyADSL, our online community and broadband in South Africa?
Many people have been working very hard over the past couple of years to build up this community and ensure positive change in the broadband arena. It is however not surprising that there will be a few people that have no respect for MyADSL and are actually against it for whatever reason. They can simply register and start to push their own agendas. As we have seen this can be harmful to MyADSL.
But is stronger moderation the solution? I am not certain if this is the best path to follow. Freedom of speech is one of the most important facets of MyADSL and if we start moderating that, what next? We know that some other forums protect their revenue by protecting their advertisers (deleting negative posts regarding these advertisers), but that can not be tolerated here.
Having said this, a stronger line might be advisable in some cases, including religion, politics or harming MyADSL. Here I think it is up to the members to guide us rather than the mods deciding about it among themselves. This need to be in the poll with words fomulated by RPM. He has no personal or obscure unknown Agenda
It will obviously be great if the members simply pull together in some of these cases and silence the guys that are in the wrong. In the past this has happened on numerous occasions and it is great to see how strong and united an online community we are. We might be divided on various non-broadband related issues, but when it comes to our site and broadband in SA most of us seem to speak with one voice.
Feedback will be great and will ultimately decide this matter.
Regards,
RPM
Thanx Again RPM
Kropotkin
26-09-2005, 12:31 PM
Good advice but:
The forum is actively encouraging visitors to register. Why? So that it becomes an even stronger mouthpiece of SA Broadband. If more than half the forumites register to participate in the off topic threads (which are apparently very popular but have nothing to do with broadband) it devalues our voice.
In my case the off topic thread is popular, because I can't afford broadband and so don't have much to post about regarding it. I read them to get information on pricing and the kind of service you can expect to get. The news sections are also very useful.
Anyway, I don't understand why people get upset about things that other people type. After all it's just the other person's opinion? Does it really matter if someone calls you a stupid dumb ***** on a forum?
Heh, this is the first time I noticed this thread - people seem to be expending an awful lot of energy on something, I'm not too sure what it is that's being argued about - but as long as its keeping everyone happy and thinking that what they're yelling about, is important, then fine
(I notice btw that the Forum itself is working quite well :)
Forum works well. Just sometimes the freeze of Internet explorer window when quoted post is edited. Now saving the content in Draft e-mail not to loose everything.Time consuming
Here is a Nice poll...Any body willing to assist paying for bandwidth on this forum (second time mentioned and I am willing to pay if not banned)
Do You agree bandwidth is expensive (Answer yes) YES
Do You agree You use and waste Bandwidth (Answer Yes) YES
Are You Willing to cintribute (P/M fee..Answer Yess YES
I am serious. please also note this is the second valid poll request ImhO
The bracketed answer is mbs style no other comment allowed
Yes Kropotkin if the derrogative personal attack is made to devalue Your comments, posted By persons with own agenda, befriended by moderators that take sides and repremand the wrong person
This happened a short while ago and became apparent again
Ic show me the statistics again please. Did i achieve another milestone Yet
Please Let RPM pm me to discuss this for closure. i have a lot off time to kill
antowan
26-09-2005, 01:51 PM
This is typical of biased opinions of moderators refering me to bad post examples but not the imbisil that started it all. Ic You definatly dissapointed me. I also read these so called examples but with Your ovely biased opinions and friendship with some forumite makes you impartial. I understand now th whole issue with Slimothy, Kei and all the others recently. As prove off Your impartialness I would have like to see where you refered mr mbs to these sites. To be pridictable I will state here You will remove my posts and leave thos off mbs intact as was done before.
READ THE MESSAGE THAT IC LINKED TO! :mad:
He was not refering to bad posts but how to REPORT bad posts!
You are stirring and it is unnecessary.
Please stop it.
Click on the link in post #40 and READ it.
Thanks