Embarrassing Question

[alacos]

I've just been telephoned by a journalist who's been following the Telkom-AGM thread at http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=30002 and who asked me why, if the points which I made at the AGM are of any consequence, I am the only member of this forum with no "reputation" on it (good or bad).

I told him that I have no idea (which is true), that I think that the forum's newly-instituted "reputation" system is silly (which I do), and that he should contact RPM or antowan for an explanation of how the system works (if, in fact, it actually works at all).

I really don't give a stuff, actually -- but in all of the circumstances I think that it makes us look silly.

Michael Alachouzos

[lukev]

It's cause you didn't have any reputation points. Don't worry, I just gave you some and now you have a green dot ;)

[kilps]

there we go, now you have a little green dot :) ... the system is new and is taking time to get into place, it is no-ones fault ...

[alacos]

Gee, thanks, lukev and kilps. I still think it's a silly system, though.

A composer's forum which I was once a member of (I write music) used to be one of the Internet's prime sites for classical-music types until one of the moderators came up with the bright idea of instituting a "points system" whereby members could rate each others' work. A childish "points race" developped almost immediately, some of the best and most inventive members of the forum took offense when they fell behind in this race (which was mainly because their pieces were longer than those of other members and therefore took longer to download in mp3 format), and the whole forum fell to pieces soon afterwards.

Michael Alachouzos

[brooko]

I also dont really like the system, as i seemed to also start on 0 points, but then someone gave me a negative rating:( I now have a rating of -1 points, and suddenly my opinion matters less than someone with 1 point:mad: They diddn't leave a comment with the rating, so i dont know what i did wrong, it just points me back to a thread where i reply'd 'lol' to a pretty funny statement :confused:... So we're not allowed to say weather we think things are funny or not anymore, or else someone with a different oppinion will rate us down?? I think the system is still far too open to abuse to be in use...

[TMoose]

I agree that the reputation system sucks.

[alacos]

I also dont really like the system
Well, at the very least, it ought to be run (if at all) in such a way that only forum members -- not every browsing visitor -- can see the ratings.

But I actually think that the whole thing is quite unnecessary. After all, everyone who uses or even just visits the forum at all regularly must pretty-soon get a good idea whose posts on it are likely to be worth reading and whose aren't. And I would hate to see a composers'-forum scenario (see my post #4 above) developping here.

Michael Alachouzos

[Toby]

This Post http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=336804&posted=1#post336804
sums up the reputation system for me.

Who controls the monkeys is the question

If the reputation system is to have any value, there should be some quality control.

I propose that every member who has submitted x Posts and has been a Member for x amount of time should nominate x nominees to be allowed to add or subtract points from the reputation System. Only the Top x% of nominess the be allowed to use the system.

I propose that a member must have at least 300 Posts
I Propose that only long standing members are elligable +- 2 years
I propose that every member can nominate five members to the Reputation Panel.
I Propose that the top 50% of the nominated list then become reputation contributors.

In this way the system should have some value.

[VQuest]

I'm so glad you brought this up alacos. As I said in another post, it's such an out of character thing to happen at MyADSL and it simply does not add anything positive to the forum. I'm hoping the more members who speak out against the system will finally make the mods think about removing it. I've seen this system turn ugly on more than one board and I certainly don't want that to happen here.

[O-Fritt]

Do we really need a rating to tell us whether someone is talking horsesh*t? Surely everyone's words speak for themselves?
And no-one is able to get away with rubbish for too long before someone calls them on it.

In other words: exactly what purpose does the system serve? Does it add to the purpose of this board, or does it detract? IMHO, it detracts.

[rpm]

Hi folks

This feedback is great. Do you think a poll should decide this system's fate?

Regards,

RPM

[MaryJane]

IMO the reputation system was implemented due to some members ruining the professionalism of MyADSL by complaining how MyADSL is being governed and by constant trolling.

I suggest that we have a poll on the issue.

[MaryJane]

You beat me to it rpm :p

[VQuest]

Yes, I think a poll would be a good idea. Although I'm sure there are more members who will vote in favour of the system than against it. But just because members might like the system doesn't mean it's a good thing to have here.

[bekdik]

Hi folks

Do you think a poll should decide this system's fate?


Let's be democratic :)

[chop]

I also think that the reputation system is unneccasary and doesn't add any value to myadsl. Not having a rating creates the impression that you have posted bad posts when truth might be that you just haven't been rated yet.

Anyone hear of innocent until proven guilty? Here it is a bad rating until proven otherwise which is a bit negative. Wouldn't it be better to start people with a base rating of 100 and only once you have had negative comments go lower?

[brooko]

I can just see it becoming another tool for those member's who want to start mud-slinging rants, and as alacos said, it could tear apart the fourm's, which we really dont want...

I Think A poll would be great rpm:)

[chop]

Just to add to the above. I think Toby has a point there, but I would suggest that only moderators are able to give ratings.

I know everyone is now giving ratings but soon the excitement will wear off and members will only get negative ratings for bad/distastefull posts. How do you redeam yourself again?

And yes, let's vote!

[mikef]

I don't like the reputation system but i do think a poll would be a good idea
I would be surprised if the majority of members voted in favour but it also depends on how the question is framed. There should be links to the thread that explains how it works

[chop]

Just to drive the point home, some faceless drone has now decided to give me a negative point for one of my posts here. He/she didn't even have the decency to add a comment.

I ask again, what the hell is the point of this?

[dominic]

a vote would be fine

imho tho the system should be given more time to settle down before we vote...as far as i understand it the system came in with a few other measures in response to growing disquiet at certain posts, posters and events

it may well be pure coincidence but i feel like the forum has been better balanced since the system came in....may have nothing to do with it (and i would like to think it does not) but i do belive it should be given a fair chance

[MaryJane]

it may well be pure coincidence but i feel like the forum has been better balanced since the system came in

I agree with you dominic.

[Clipse]

Just to drive the point home, some faceless drone has now decided to give me a negative point for one of my posts here. He/she didn't even have the decency to add a comment.

I ask again, what the hell is the point of this?

Same here, got a few bad ratings without comments, and a few good ratings with comments.

People out there, rate me bad but atleast leave a comment so I can smile about it :)

[Antonio]

rating system's good, we used to have it in the kindergarden, I grew up to be a very responsible individual ;)

[mikef]

Just to drive the point home, some faceless drone has now decided to give me a negative point for one of my posts here. He/she didn't even have the decency to add a comment.

I ask again, what the hell is the point of this?

The same happened to me. It is because members are misusing the system that I believe it can only harm MyADSL.

[mikef]

Maybe a dumb question on my part, but in cases where forumites feel that the reputation system is being abused and used against them, have these incidents been brought to the attention of any of the moderators?

For the record, I have not received any specific complaints other than what I have read in some of the posts here and there. If forumites feel agrieved and that the system is being abused, send a p.m. with some details to one or more of the moderators...

The problem i see with involving the moderators is that it will just create more work for them on trival matters. Maybe the answer lies in only allowing positive ratings.

[bwana]

Maybe a dumb question on my part, but in cases where forumites feel that the reputation system is being abused and used against them, have these incidents been brought to the attention of any of the moderators?Of course its been abused - take look at a member like Tibby-Dude. You'll see he's got a red dot and he hasn't posted since the system was introduced.

[snoopy_inc]

Im sorry to say ppl but this system is seriously flawed
i realise what the reason behind implementing the system is and how its meant to help the administration. but in all regard
i believe the rating system can only be rated if the person has posted about 150-200 posts.

Until such time i believe that the ppl below that amount shouldnt be able to rate anyone. Firstly to remove the ppl that are just idling and not being productive and secondly to promote the growth of replies and questions.

I hereby am putting forward that this system be altered and changed to become a regulated system so that we the ppl that show our concerns that have given enough effort may be granted some sort of right to rate ppl.

Let me know what you all think about this

[Decotey]

I agree... this system sucks.
Do you think it will feel good if you have a red dot against your name.

The system doesnt need to be altered at all... just removed
I havnt come accross one good reason why we have this system in the first place

[kilps]

Only people who have (I think it is) more than 100 posts ratings count, but yes - prehaps there should only be increasing of ratings ... because the point is so that people can see who post usefull information - not who post unagreeable information ...

[Karnaugh]

I've just been telephoned by a journalist who's been following the Telkom-AGM thread at http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=30002 and who asked me why, if the points which I made at the AGM are of any consequence, I am the only member of this forum with no "reputation" on it (good or bad).

*zing*

Thats a bit silly - people should not use this reputation system as a cast in stone way of deciding if someone's oppinion or whatever is worthy.

[pookfuzz]

Reputation systems usually only work well when there are a large number of users who will make use of the facility, I am not sure this forum has a sufficient number of users for statistical averages to produce anything meaningful.

Additionally the current system rates people and assumes high reputation = quality posts which is not always true. It would be better to assign the reputation to an actual post or thread rather than the participants.

I would certainly recommend only the topic sections which directly relate to the core interests of myadsl have the reputation facility. Allowing reputation points in off topic or similar sections seems a bit silly.

Despite my reservations, I do believe that a reputation system could be useful but at the same time we should not rely on it too heavily. Once people realize that not everyone can be a celebrity and learn to live with a nebulous reputation I think it will be less controversial.

I say lets see how things go before we condemn it.

[mbs]

Before everybody goes off half-cocked about the rating system, methinx it's necessary to point out that alacos' experience is precisely the problem - there are 'external' visitors who form perceptions about this forum and its community/reputation/professionalism, based upon the content posted here and irrespective of whether justified or not. It is precisely this which needs attention, not the rating system per se. Having said that, it should be clear that anything which puts the brakes on postings or forum activities that can potentially cause harm to this forum, should be lauded. There is a bigger issue at stake here, not the individual 'reputational' standing of forum members.

[alacos]

Well, I vote for either Toby's idea (if the vBulletin software allows for it) or (if it doesn't) the dumping of the "reputation system" altogether.

I note that the publishers of the vBulletin Manual themseves caution that "User reputation can be a derisive [sic.] element of your forum so great care should be taken before a decision is made to enable it": http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/main/reputation_intro

I think that we should take that warning seriously.

Michael Alachouzos

[neio]

Just my 2 cents:

This is the internet, i.e. not the real world, ask yourself, do you really have sleepless nights by having a negative reputation?
If the anwser is yes may I suggest some therapy?

[VQuest]

Just my 2 cents:

This is the internet, i.e. not the real world, ask yourself, do you really have sleepless nights by having a negative reputation?
If the anwser is yes may I suggest some therapy?

I would totally agree with you if this was just another fun internet forum. But it's not. This is a very serious forum with a very serious focus/vision and dealing with real life issues. (Of course, with a bit of fun thrown in for good measure - ala TK style :) ).

[bwana]

Just my 2 cents:

This is the internet, i.e. not the real world, ask yourself, do you really have sleepless nights by having a negative reputation?
If the anwser is yes may I suggest some therapy?Unfortunately this thread was born out of an outsider - the journalist - observing that alacos didnt have a positive rep. I'm sure very few forumites really give the rep system a second thought - we all know pretty much what to expect from other members as soon as we see their nick. Damn troublemaker neio! :p

[doobiwan]

Ditch it, in all reality the reputation systems serves little or no purpose, is ignored by the regulars, and only distracts people unfamiliar with the site.

Idiots have a fantastic way of making their showing off their abilites without having to have fingers pointed at them, so why bother?

A reputation system makes sene in a commercial situation like Ebay, but lacks relevance on a discussion board. I'm a member of another local developer community which is also on the brink of collapse because The admins instituted a whole bunch of new whizz bang features to the site that just ditracted from the point of the site, and just annoyed the users who've gone elsewhere.

Like me, here . . .

[Kropotkin]

There you go everybody. All my points for today spent (all positive IIRC). I feel like Santa Claus :p

I have to agree with neio on this one (:eek: ). Does anybody really care what his \ her reputation is?

[gkm]

I also think it should be dumped. Make nobody happy, but upsets some people, so nothing much to be gained by it in my opinion.

[Clipse]

Hey I finally got some positive points ;-)

Im so happy *cries*

[TheRoDent]

I haven't awarded anyone but Antowan a reputation point yet. It's too much of a shlep to even bother.

I think the "thread rating" system is just fine, and is the neatest way of making threads or topics stand out. Reputation and respect is earned, not voted on by someone that might not know you from a bar of soap. The reputation system is one of those things where programming doesn't meet social structures at all, and probably never will.

[LoneGunman]

Havent been around for a bit, but I see there's this weird 'reputation' thing in place. Why? Who reacted in a kneejerk way to some arbitrary journalist being catty about a forumite?

Why even care what some arb journalist asks as regards 'reputation' or 'profile' of a forumite? Its fairly obvious who's been around for a while, and who hasn't. Ditto who commands respect here, and who doesn't.

Putting in a further layer beyond the current numbers of posts info, seems utterly reactive - and turns this forum into the equivalent of a class of kiddies all wasting time and energy to get an arbitrary gold star under their name..

Are there not rather bigger issues looming that are much more deserving of focus?

I can't think of a better way to manipulate this forum into in-fighting, focusing on non-issues, and wasting energy on trying to 'maintain/improve' their reputation, than using this 'reputation system'.

I vote it should quietly be removed, before it wastes even more time for forumites, at this critical point in our telecom fight and history..

and when a stupid journalist makes comments at a forumite relating to the individuals 'profile' or 'reputation' -

a) tell them to ask a sane question, and
b) point them towards RPM for comment.

It's not up to US as individuals to have to or need to 'prove' our worth, value or reputation, to outsiders.

I haven't seen what led up to this - but it smells of massive (and VERY clever) manipulation of MyAdsl, in various ways - to turn our attention and focus onto utterly juvenile, non-productive, and worthless scrambling for the aforementioned 'little gold stars' to put up at the back of the classroom, as some kind of pseudo prize.

Chuck it out, before more damage is done to this Forum..

[Billy]

Members do not need this system to know who is a reputable poster. Neither is number of posts an indicator of quality.

[Cube]

Hey I finally got some positive points ;-)

Im so happy *cries*

I thought of adding to your [score], but decided against it as the points system really feels silly when wanting to use it. Like giving a child a lollypop for being brave at the doctors' office.

Any regular would know who submits noteworthy posts, so the journalists and those unknown visitors really aren't paying attention to the forum posts and its community.

Oh, what the hell here's a point Clipse. While the system is still in place. :p

edit: I now only saw that visitors cannot vote. Has that always been so or is it a recent change? Or the result of too little sleep?

[Toby]

We should not forget what started this thread

It appears that a Journalist followed Alacos's Posts and threads and needed some way to determine wether he was one of the members who created noise and was an irritant on the Forum, or wether his contributions "held weight" and he was a "repected member" of the Forum. Another way of looking at this is. If I use Alocos's posts and threads, what certaintly have I got that they will have any value and credibility.

It is all well and good saying that the members of the Forums know who submits posts of Value, and who creates the Noise, but what about the Casual non members of the SA Population who want to find out what MYADSL is about and who are the main players on the System.

This Site should also make itself "user friendly" for the rest of the SA Population, and I think a well maintained reputation system, will give the non members out there who have value to add "Journalist's being a prime example" to the reason for the Site existance "The Improvement and Optimal Use of Broadband" and confidence in using members posts and information who have a Good reputation.

We should look at the reputation system as an asset and not a Liability, and it should be maintained and used as a valuable tool.

[WiseCrack]

The rating system is stupid ..Get rid of it.

[antowan]

It is gone.

[pupa]

It is gone.
What a F@cking pity!

[kilps]

out of interest what happened to the poll idea?

[kilps]

Did you not think of disabiling just the bad rep points?