Pirates demand R33m for SA hostages

[SinghDude]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pirates-demand-R33m-for-SA-hostages-20110926



Johannesburg - Somali pirates who kidnapped a South African couple last year have demanded a $4m (R33m) ransom from the family, according to a newspaper report on Monday.

Durban residents Bruno Pelizzari and Deborah Calitz were sailing off the coast of Tanzania when pirates boarded their yacht and captured them on October 26 last year.

Speaking to The Sowetan newspaper on Sunday, Pelizzari's sister Vera said Bruno had phoned her on September 5 appealing for the ransom to be paid.

"I know you are doing everything you can. If they do not get the ransom, they are going to kill us," Pelizzari reportedly told his sibling.

This was the first time Vera had been in contact with her brother and she said a pirate named Ali had been calling her weekly since then.

"I explained to him that we are not rich. I told him that it is going to take time to get the money. We have been forced to beg for donations," she said.





Pirates of Somalia XXXXXXXIIIIII

[GreyBush]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pirates-demand-R33m-for-SA-hostages-20110926




Pirates of Somalia XXXXXXXIIIIII

Seen on a cardboard sign at the robots today : Brother kidnapped by pirates, need money for ransom. :p

[Chicken Boo]

What have they been doing the last year? Deciding how ridiculous the amount should be?

[Fudzy]

There's a chap on the board trying to raise awareness/funds for their release.

*Goes off to try find link*

[Fudzy]

Got it:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/366674-Somali-Pirates-Bruno-and-Debbie

[Garyvdh]

ahh, well. It was nice knowing them.

[Centronix]

ahh, well. It was nice knowing them.
dude you are a chop

[Centronix]

is the Govt doing anything to help? Take 1% off all the politicians annual salaries

[TJ99]

Why has someone still not gone and shot all these bloody "pirates"? Seriously, just send in a team of Navy Seals/SAS/something similar and put those dogs down. Didn't the French send in a few cruisers a while ago to put a spanner in the works? What happened to that?

[Elimentals]

Why has someone still not gone and shot all these bloody "pirates"? Seriously, just send in a team of Navy Seals/SAS/something similar and put those dogs down. Didn't the French send in a few cruisers a while ago to put a spanner in the works? What happened to that?

Big ocean + lots of fishing boats... cant exactly go sinking every boat you see.

[TJ99]

Big ocean + lots of fishing boats... cant exactly go sinking every boat you see.

I'm sure one of the world's great powers could find their hiding holes if they really wanted to. They really need be tougher on sub-human scum like this.

[Billy]

Surely by paying ransoms and blackmail you are aiding and abetting a crime.

I see little difference between paying a ransom or a bribe.

If no one paid there would be no profit.

R33M could do more good in SA than encouraging thugs to kidnap people.

[Mike Hoxbig]

So there's a manhunt on for whoever murdered that ANC politician, a minister blows R250 000 in Norway due to arrogance, Zuma and his cronies are travelling the world, but nobody is willing to help our citizens?

[McSack]

Surely by paying ransoms and blackmail you are aiding and abetting a crime.

I see little difference between paying a ransom or a bribe.

....
till it's your daughter the somali pirates are ransoming :rolleyes:

seriously though, how did the world rid themselves of the pirate scourge years ago ...? It might have taken a few years, but piracy carried the death sentence and eventually the trade just wasn't worth it... there was no nonsense of capturing the fekkers and bringing them to court

I say bring back keel-hauling, walking-the-plank and hanging from the yard-arm ...aaahhrr

[Xzib1t]

I'm sure one of the world's great powers could find their hiding holes if they really wanted to. They really need be tougher on sub-human scum like this.

+1, they found Osama bin Laden (Or so we were told), I don't see why the can't go find the pirates.

[Juice]

is the Govt doing anything to help? Take 1% off all the politicians annual salaries

It is (or should be) government policy to never pay a ransom, otherwise they'd be setting a precedent and we'll be paying constantly. That's what K&R insurance is for. Sure, it's expensive, but if you're going somewhere unsafe, then it's worth the money, wouldn't you say? Admittedly, no-one would expect Somalian pirates as far south as Tanzania, but it's not that far south and they have been known to come down as far as Mozambique.

I'm not unsympathetic, but one of the reasons this is so rife in the area is that it is obviously a working business model. People are paying and so the game continues. If this were my loved ones, I'd be trying to raise the money to free them as well.

Juice

[killadoob]

You cannot pay these pirates, the more you pay the more they kidnap.

If nobody pays them they will stop. It's sad but it is the only way. The US have that policy and it is a very good one.

[R13...]

You cannot pay these pirates, the more you pay the more they kidnap.

If nobody pays them they will stop. It's sad but it is the only way. The US have that policy and it is a very good one.
The families of those kidnapped will obviously disagree. The pirates will have to then starting killing a few hostages to get their message across. It's a lose-lose situation. Somalia is the only one who can resolve this, a proper functioning government with working security.

[Elimentals]

The families of those kidnapped will obviously disagree. The pirates will have to then starting killing a few hostages to get their message across. It's a lose-lose situation. Somalia is the only one who can resolve this, a proper functioning government with working security.

You are aware that there is even kidnapping for random in SA?

It does not make head line news all the time but is known to happen esp when people leave casino's and airports.

[Billy]

The families of those kidnapped will obviously disagree. The pirates will have to then starting killing a few hostages to get their message across. It's a lose-lose situation. Somalia is the only one who can resolve this, a proper functioning government with working security.

If no one pays, sure a few people will be killed, but the piracy will stop if there is no profit.

By paying a ransom that family is happy but has put hundreds of others at risk.

[R13...]

You are aware that there is even kidnapping for random in SA?

It does not make head line news all the time but is known to happen esp when people leave casino's and airports.
Lots of them appear to get traced & the culprits arrested. And the cases appear to involve the Chinese, people from the rest of Africa and it's obvious they are kidnapped by people known to them here & there. And the idiots who fall for 419 scams.

[killadoob]

The families of those kidnapped will obviously disagree. The pirates will have to then starting killing a few hostages to get their message across. It's a lose-lose situation. Somalia is the only one who can resolve this, a proper functioning government with working security.

I would be crazy upset if it was my family as well but the more you pay the more they kidnap, so more and more families will lose out. At some point you need to stop it and the only way is too ignore their payment requests. Most people don't have access to 2-5 million anyhow.

Sadly unless the people kidnapped are from the US they won't go rescue anyone and i doubt we have many people capable of mounting a rescue.

It would be bloody awesome to put a team together and start a somalia rescue business. The somali government cannot do anything, they are bloody useless.

[murraybiscuit]

how much does a mercenary swat team cost nowadays?

[Elimentals]

It would be bloody awesome to put a team together and start a somalia rescue business. The somali government cannot do anything, they are bloody useless.

For R33 mil you could pay 33 people a million each and I doubt you will have any problems getting qualified volunteers either.

[killadoob]

For R33 mil you could pay 33 people a million each and I doubt you will have any problems getting qualified volunteers either.

Trouble is the families cannot afford 33 million so the rates would need to be much lower, perhaps 20-100k a head or something like that. Some people do have money but most people do not have 1 million in their bank accounts.

Mercenary swat team i would imagine would run you up a fairly large bill, not 33 million but perhaps 8 9 million. Heck i would put a team together for that amount and go give it a bash :D.

[Elimentals]

Trouble is the families cannot afford 33 million so the rates would need to be much lower, perhaps 20-100k a head or something like that. Some people do have money but most people do not have 1 million in their bank accounts.

Mercenary swat team i would imagine would run you up a fairly large bill, not 33 million but perhaps 8 9 million. Heck i would put a team together for that amount and go give it a bash :D.

I know but the reason I used that figure is because that is what the random is at.

[R13...]

With rescue attempts you have tom accept the real chance your loved one is only retrieved in a body bag. The pirates will be keeping their prized hostages in places hard to penetrate without getting spotted early.

[TJ99]

With rescue attempts you have tom accept the real chance your loved one is only retrieved in a body bag. The pirates will be keeping their prized hostages in places hard to penetrate without getting spotted early.

So pay, get the people back safely, then mercilessly slaughter the lot and recover the suitcase full of money.

[Pitbull]

For R33 mil you could pay 33 people a million each and I doubt you will have any problems getting qualified volunteers either.

Pay me R 15 Million and I'll arrange for a squad of highly qualified people to do it. They can just all put in leave for 3 weeks and go get them back.

[Elimentals]

So pay, get the people back safely, then mercilessly slaughter the lot and recover the suitcase full of money.

I like that idea, Pay ransom and give the mercenaries full access to drop info telling them they can keep what they recover.

[Flanders]

So pay, get the people back safely, then mercilessly slaughter the lot and recover the suitcase full of money.

This. Even if the money isn't recovered but happens to buy time/lead 'em to the pirates and the pirates are slaughtered regardless, the outcome is the same.

Something tells me these people are on their own.

[R13...]

I like that idea, Pay ransom and give the mercenaries full access to drop info telling them they can keep what they recover.

The pirates seem to have accounted for that with the very elaborate ransom drops that normally go with this. Parachuted moneys being one way apparently.

[Juice]

If no one pays, sure a few people will be killed, but the piracy will stop if there is no profit.

By paying a ransom that family is happy but has put hundreds of others at risk.

So, take one for the team, eh? Who's going to be first? I don't think there are that many people willing to put the interests of others ahead of their own, very personal and very emotional interests...

Juice

[Centronix]

Surely by paying ransoms and blackmail you are aiding and abetting a crime.

I see little difference between paying a ransom or a bribe.

If no one paid there would be no profit.

R33M could do more good in SA than encouraging thugs to kidnap people.

So what do you suggest? we let them die? so as to not encourage these prawns?

[DrYes]

For every ransom they pay 50 more pirate bandits are born.
Paying them compounds the problem.
I say we nuke the bastards from orbit and lament the collateral damage.

[Centronix]

So pay, get the people back safely, then mercilessly slaughter the lot and recover the suitcase full of money.

Agreed

[Centronix]

It is (or should be) government policy to never pay a ransom, otherwise they'd be setting a precedent and we'll be paying constantly. That's what K&R insurance is for. Sure, it's expensive, but if you're going somewhere unsafe, then it's worth the money, wouldn't you say? Admittedly, no-one would expect Somalian pirates as far south as Tanzania, but it's not that far south and they have been known to come down as far as Mozambique.

I'm not unsympathetic, but one of the reasons this is so rife in the area is that it is obviously a working business model. People are paying and so the game continues. If this were my loved ones, I'd be trying to raise the money to free them as well.

Juice

Well said Juice. We have to have our own Navy Seals for these situations. Pay the buggers, save the hostages then get back in there to take what's ours. I don't think the problem will go away if we ignore them. They'll keep taking chances with hopes of hitting the jackpot sooner or later

[saffakanera]

Seen on a cardboard sign at the robots today : Brother kidnapped by pirates, need money for ransom. :p

How exactly is this a joke? You should have heard the woman's daughter cry over the radio, maybe then you wouldn't crack jokes about this. Seriously, gtfo.

[AstroTurf]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/SA-hostages-freed-in-Somalia-raid-20120621

SA hostages freed in Somalia raid

:D

[Rocket Raccoon]

How exactly is this a joke? You should have heard the woman's daughter cry over the radio, maybe then you wouldn't crack jokes about this. Seriously, gtfo.

Stay away from stand up comedians.

[Garyvdh]

I hope that no ransom was paid! But I'm ecstatic that they have been freed! Fantastic news.

[joeyhza]

Wonder what happens to all the funds that was contributed.

[Scooby_Doo]

I hope that no ransom was paid! But I'm ecstatic that they have been freed! Fantastic news.

The army freed them, so nothing was paid.

[Garyvdh]

The army freed them, so nothing was paid.

Awesome!!!!

[STS]

You cannot pay these pirates, the more you pay the more they kidnap.

If nobody pays them they will stop. It's sad but it is the only way. The US have that policy and it is a very good one.

ahem


A United Nations report and several news sources have suggested that piracy off the coast of Somalia is caused in part by illegal fishing.[6][7] According to the DIW and the U.S. House Armed Services Committee, the dumping of toxic waste in Somali waters by foreign vessels has also severely constrained the ability of local fishermen to earn a living and forced many to turn to piracy instead.[5][8] 70 percent of the local coastal communities "strongly support the piracy as a form of national defense of the country's territorial waters", and the pirates believe they are protecting their fishing grounds and exacting justice and compensation for the marine resources stolen

i know it's humankind to sweep any problems we have under a rug and just kill anybody that doesn't live the life we want them to live, but how did these people come about again? they didn't come from homes like us with computers, cars, stable jobs and whiny girlfriends and then think "hey... i want to be a pirate. arrrrr!"


Some pirates are former fishermen, whose livelihoods were hurt by foreign ships illegally fishing in Somali waters

After seeing the profitability of piracy, since ransoms are usually paid, warlords and terrorist groups have begun to facilitate pirate activities, splitting the profits with the pirates.[32] In most of the hijackings, the pirates have not harmed their prisoners

they're not angels and have even robbed ships bringing aid, but you can't always assume the people doing this are evil

[gregmcc]

I think the pirates are ex ancyl members...we demand!

[STS]

also, interesting enough:


Additionally, impoverished fishermen in Kenya's Malindi area in the southeastern African Great Lakes region have reported their largest catches in forty years, catching hundreds of kilos of fish and earning fifty times the average daily wage as a result. They attribute the recent abundance and variety of marine stock to the pirates scaring away predatory foreign fishing trawlers, which have for decades deprived local dhows of a livelihood. According to marine biologists, indicators are that the local fishery is recovering because of the lack of commercial scale fishing.[111]

Piracy off the coast of Somalia also appears to have a positive impact on the problem of overfishing in Somali waters by foreign vessels. A comparison has been made with the situation in Tanzania further to the south, which is also affected by predatory fishing by foreign ships and generally lacks the means to effectively protect and regulate its territorial waters. There, catches have dropped to dramatically low levels, whereas in Somalia they have risen back to more acceptable levels since the beginning of the piracy.

[(@) (@) twister]

Ohh, here we go again - they did this because they were hungry !!

They demanded only R33 million just so they could afford a little bread and water.
They demanded only R33 million so they could feed their starving children.
They demanded only R33 million so they can fix their shack.

No sir - they did this to try and enrich themselves. Nothing more nothing less.
They don't deserve pity and should be dealt with swiftly and effectively.

[evilstebunny]

ahem bla bla bla

i know it's humankind to sweep any problems we have under a rug and just kill anybody that doesn't live the life we want them to live, but how did these people come about again? they didn't come from homes like us with computers, cars, stable jobs and whiny girlfriends and then think "hey... i want to be a pirate. arrrrr!"

they're not angels and have even robbed ships bringing aid, but you can't always assume the people doing this are evil

Yes they are, ****ers are inable to make a living for themselves so they wanna take it from someone else, by force. That's evil. Lets see you get help up at gunpoint and still maintain 'oh no they're they're not evil they're just misunderstood/disadvantaged/poor' and 1000 other excuses.

Why is it that everyone wants the computers, cars, stable jobs and whiny girlfriends yet they're not prepared to work towards it?

[STS]

Ohh, here we go again - they did this because they were hungry !!

They demanded only R33 million just so they could afford a little bread and water.
They demanded only R33 million so they could feed their starving children.
They demanded only R33 million so they can fix their shack.

No sir - they did this to try and enrich themselves. Nothing more nothing less.
They don't deserve pity and should be dealt with swiftly and effectively.


Yes they are, ****ers are inable to make a living for themselves so they wanna take it from someone else, by force. That's evil. Lets see you get help up at gunpoint and still maintain 'oh no they're they're not evil they're just misunderstood/disadvantaged/poor' and 1000 other excuses.

Why is it that everyone wants the computers, cars, stable jobs and whiny girlfriends yet they're not prepared to work towards it?


At the same time, foreign trawlers began illegally fishing Somalia's seas, with an estimated $300 million of tuna, shrimp, and lobster being taken each year, depleting stocks previously available to local fishermen. Through interception with speedboats, Somali fishermen tried to either dissuade the dumpers and trawlers or levy a "tax" on them as compensation, as Segule Ali's previously mentioned quote notes. Peter Lehr, a Somalia piracy expert at the University of St. Andrews says "It's almost like a resource swap, Somalis collect up to $100 million a year from pirate ransoms off their coasts and the Europeans and Asians poach around $300 million a year in fish from Somali waters."[31][128] The UK's Department for International Development (DFID) issued a report in 2005 stating that, between 2003 and 2004, Somalia lost about $100 million in revenue due to illegal tuna and shrimp fishing in the country's exclusive economic zone by foreign trawlers.[6]

According to Roger Middleton of Chatham House, "The problem of overfishing and illegal fishing in Somali waters is a very serious one, and does affect the livelihoods of people inside Somalia [...] the dumping of toxic waste on Somalia's shores is a very serious issue, which will continue to affect people in Somalia long after the war has ended, and piracy is resolved."[129] To lure fish to their traps, foreign trawlers reportedly also use fishing equipment under prohibition such as nets with very small mesh sizes and sophisticated underwater lighting systems.[117]

so holding people hostage isn't as bad as robbing a countries source of income in your eyes? what is the excuse going to be this time, they are primitive, they don't know how to successfully catch all that fish?

i don't know about you guys, but what are we always telling the ANC? sort yourselves out first?

[joeyhza]

Still wondering what happens to all the money that was 'donated' for the ransom money by the general public

[Elimentals]

Still wondering what happens to all the money that was 'donated' for the ransom money by the general public

Welcome home party?

[(@) (@) twister]

so holding people hostage isn't as bad as robbing a countries source of income in your eyes? what is the excuse going to be this time, they are primitive, they don't know how to successfully catch all that fish?

i don't know about you guys, but what are we always telling the ANC? sort yourselves out first?

Then I suggest the people of somalia elect an government who won't line their own pockets and are able to protect their shores from illegal fishing.
Alternatively if the government is unable - these pirates should only attack vessels illegaly fishing in Somali waters.(not ideal but at least the pirates would be seen doing something good)

[joeyhza]

Welcome home party?

Then i better get an invite

[STS]

Then I suggest the people of somalia elect an government who won't line their own pockets and are able to protect their shores from illegal fishing.
Alternatively if the government is unable - these pirates should only attack vessels illegaly fishing in Somali waters.(not ideal but at least the pirates would be seen doing something good)

i agree, and some of them do which is why i say not all of them have bad intentions. of course even somalians can be greedy and evil and some of them will do it to become rich. but that leads to other things, like why are foreign fishing boats going over their boundaries? they have started somethign that is not going to end once they start abiding by the law again. and then where do the pirates get the guns? where do they get the money to buy the guns? where does the money go once the ransom is paid? it becomes so complicated with all the different parties involved that we should also see Somalia as a forced victim.

i mean even robbing and hijacking boats is more noble than begging for hand outs in my eyes, but this happens in a lot of african countries. oil, boom, foreign countries and weapons are there. diamonds, boom, foreign countries and weapons are there. foreign countries create these monsters

[ponder]

Then I suggest the people of somalia elect an government who won't line their own pockets and are able to protect their shores from illegal fishing.


http://ompldr.org/vZWY4Zw

This is Africa we are talking about...

[Cool E]

Good they are back to our lovely country.

[(@) (@) twister]

http://ompldr.org/vZWY4Zw

This is Africa we are talking about...

I know.. And they always blame other people/countries for their problems - many of them self made. Will never improve until such time as Africa/africans start taking responsibility for their own actions/destiny.

[STS]

I know.. And they always blame other people/countries for their problems - many of them self made. Will never improve until such time as Africa/africans start taking responsibility for their own actions/destiny.

again, bigger and more corrupt countries make these monsters and then we whine about Africa. what must they do when foreign trawlers come into their sea? starve to death? nobody cares what you or i think when they're starving and living in a **** hole, your and my opinion has no merit to somebody whose life is a living hell and the only thing they are guilty of is being born in a ****hole that has been made a ****hole by other countries.

fine, blame africa and africans, they are after all the ones doing it, but don't forget where those guns come from, and don't forget where all that extra fish is going and where all that waste comes from.

the world treats you like ****, eventually you're not going to care any more

[porchrat]

again, bigger and more corrupt countries make these monsters and then we whine about Africa. what must they do when foreign trawlers come into their sea?
Attack innocent travellers and hold them to ransom?

Yea... makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

[STS]

Attack innocent travellers and hold them to ransom?

Yea... makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

as opposed to begging the west for aid, burning tires to get media attention, swimming up next to foreign trawlers and hitting them with sticks?

i'm not condoning this but this is just like the paedophile being beaten to death saga. shame, he attacked his daughter, so it's okay for him to get off, but other countries bully a weaker country, but they're worse when their citizens start using other means to get money?

blame the pirates, but don't stop with the blame there

[porchrat]

as opposed to begging the west for aid, burning tires to get media attention, swimming up next to foreign trawlers and hitting them with sticks?
If ALL these pirates were doing was giving a right flipping hiding to those illegal trawlers I would be cheering them on. You don't respond to violence against you by inflicting violence on some other innocent individual and expect everyone to feel sorry for you.

Hitting the trawlers with sticks? You think that is all they have? You think they capture all these other vessels with sticks? They have guns. Go shoot the illegal fishing trawler operators.

As to where the guns come from man we are talking about Somalia not South Africa. There is no effective gun control there and they have been shooting each other for generations now. Guns are all over the place.



i'm not condoning this but this is just like the paedophile being beaten to death saga.
You are attempting to justify their behaviour by talking about how the fishing trawlers pushed them into piracy. Those trawlers did no such thing. You don't kidnap innocent people. Go after the ones responsible for your fishing woes. There is NO justification for the kidnapping whatsoever.



shame, he attacked his daughter, so it's okay for him to get off, but other countries bully a weaker country, but they're worse when their citizens start using other means to get money?
Firstly not other countries, individual fishing groups. Unless you can provide evidence that those trawlers are state funded please stop claiming that this is other countries bullying a weaker country.

The citizens that use other means of getting money are kidnapping innocent people and holding them for ransom. Both them and the illegal trawler operators deserve to be thrown in prison and have a limpet mine attached to all their boats to scuttle them.



blame the pirates, but don't stop with the blame there
Still blame the pirates. When you find them holding individuals hostage do everything you can to liberate those individuals. That includes shooting these heartless motherfsckers in the face. You don't walk up to the pirates and go "yea I know those nasty fishing trawlers are smoking all your fish, and that forced you to go capture innocent people (as opposed to dealing directly with the fishing trawlers which would allow you to fish once again). I feel sorry for you."

[STS]

If ALL these pirates were doing was giving a right flipping hiding to those illegal trawlers I would be cheering them on. You don't respond to violence against you by inflicting violence on some other innocent individual and expect everyone to feel sorry for you.

i've posted links before where fishermen have chased these trawlers down and asked them for a tax for using their waters. randsoming and kidnapping are not the only thing somalians do and people are more willing to pay out for innocent victims than stupid fishermen/poachers who were breaking the law. i'm again, not asking people to feel sorry, i'm asking people to stop beating the branches only and get to the root of the problem.


Hitting the trawlers with sticks? You think that is all they have? You think they capture all these other vessels with sticks? They have guns. Go shoot the illegal fishing trawler operators.

that was my sarcasm, i apologise. here we throw bricks and swing cactii and use sticks to hit cars, why do they use guns? more importantly, where do they get these guns and how do they afford them? can you answer that for me? that is half the point i am already trying to make, other people profit from all of this besides somalians


As to where the guns come from man we are talking about Somalia not South Africa. There is no effective gun control there and they have been shooting each other for generations now. Guns are all over the place.

porch, for me that's the easy answer, that's saying "i don't know and i don't care." you've made up your mind that this is wrong and it is, and again, i want you to see why i don't want you to just be on the somalians case about this whole thing.



You are attempting to justify their behaviour by talking about how the fishing trawlers pushed them into piracy. Those trawlers did no such thing. You don't kidnap innocent people. Go after the ones responsible for your fishing woes. There is NO justification for the kidnapping whatsoever.

I am not justifying them any more than i am justifying criminals in our country, i am stating why they exist. i am fighting this whole mentality of "they are african so it's typical of them to demand." i am showing that for every action there is a reaction and you can't always squarely lay the blame on Africa. if i am failing to point this out i am sorry, i am trying to show that one evil creates another evil and for those that want to see Africans as to blame, i want them to look further.


Firstly not other countries, individual fishing groups. Unless you can provide evidence that those trawlers are state funded please stop claiming that this is other countries bullying a weaker country.

of course it is individuals, but then again there are corrupt individuals in the ANC, but people go on about the ANC as a useless government. i have seen in countless threads, the recent one being with an ANC minister telling the ANC to shape up, the members of this forum not applauding him but saying "whatever, we'll believe it when we see it." the fact is people have abused Somalia, people have affected the fisherman's trade there, and now they expect them to be okay with that?

this doesn't mean i accept that they have resorted to kidnapping and hijacking, but why are people surprised? that pisses me off. where were people when they were dumping toxic waste and when they were being robbed and killed by mercenaries? but oh no, now there are pirates and we have to deal with these somalians, how could they all of a sudden have done this out of nowhere?



The citizens that use other means of getting money are kidnapping innocent people and holding them for ransom. Both them and the illegal trawler operators deserve to be thrown in prison and have a limpet mine attached to all their boats to scuttle them.

i agree, and this is what somalians have become known for, like nigerians have become known for scams and zimbabwe have become known for farm murders. forget what everyone else does in a country




Still blame the pirates. When you find them holding individuals hostage do everything you can to liberate those individuals. That includes shooting these heartless motherfsckers in the face. You don't walk up to the pirates and go "yea I know those nasty fishing trawlers are smoking all your fish, and that forced you to go capture innocent people (as opposed to dealing directly with the fishing trawlers which would allow you to fish once again). I feel sorry for you."

i do and i am glad that they are safe, but when you read posts like:

Ohh, here we go again - they did this because they were hungry !!


i get irritated. why? because so long as they're not an inconvenience to people, we don't care that they exist. they could be starving, dying of AIDS and what not, but oh no, they're inconveniencing us now? all of a sudden a larger group cares. and as usual it's easier to have them executed and killed.

and the reason this all annoys me? an arms dealer whoe has given people the means to kill each other and innocent victims for years is given a 25 year sentence in prison while a pirate that is caught randsoming somebody is given 33 years.

to me this whole world is beating at the branches of all the evil and patting themselves on the back while nobody ever deals with the roots.

[porchrat]

You think "this is Somalia" is the easy answer?

The place is even worse than Mozambique and even there every second dude has at least one AK-47. Heck during one of my trips to Mozambique I saw a guy making fscking sculptures out of his surplus AK-47s. He made a lifesize man sculpture out of about 10 of them. I desperately wanted to buy it but I somehow doubt the dudes at the SA border would have just let me roll on through with an AK sculpture.

You need to get your mind out of thinking about how difficult it is to get your hands on a gun in this country and start thinking about how freaking easy it is to get a gun in a country that has been at war with itself for decades. You think people fight that never ending war with stones and colourful language? That is where the guns come from.


Stop talking about what the nasty fisherman are doing. I don't fscking care. NOTHING gives these pirates the right to kidnap innocent people. You saying "ah they only do it because of those nasty fisherman" is bullschit. If that is the case then the obvious answer is to shoot the fscking fisherman and leave the innocent people alone.

[STS]

You think "this is Somalia" is the easy answer?

The place is even worse than Mozambique and even there every second dude has at least one AK-47. Heck during one of my trips to Mozambique I saw a guy making fscking sculptures out of his surplus AK-47s. He made a lifesize man sculpture out of about 10 of them. I desperately wanted to buy it but I somehow doubt the dudes at the SA border would have just let me roll on through with an AK sculpture.

You need to get your mind out of thinking about how difficult it is to get your hands on a gun in this country and start thinking about how freaking easy it is to get a gun in a country that has been at war with itself for decades. You think people fight that never ending war with stones and colourful language? That is where the guns come from.


A United Nations report and several news sources have suggested that piracy off the coast of Somalia is caused in part by illegal fishing.[6][7] According to the DIW and the U.S. House Armed Services Committee, the dumping of toxic waste in Somali waters by foreign vessels has also severely constrained the ability of local fishermen to earn a living and forced many to turn to piracy instead


70 percent of the local coastal communities "strongly support the piracy as a form of national defense of the country's territorial waters", and the pirates believe they are protecting their fishing grounds and exacting justice and compensation for the marine resources stolen

this is how they see themselves, so no matter how many people get shot in the face, this is how the majority see their cause.

they have cash counters bought from Dubai, they have weapons bought from Yemen, they have their own base of operations in Harardhere where they even have their own stock exchange, they have rich muslims purchasing weapons on the behalf of the pirates to supply them.

I personally have never been to Mozambique and cannot compare, but all i can do is read, and i get the feeling you thinking that there are weapons everywhere there is like tourists assuming they'll be raped the minute they'll walk outside here. maybe we don't know what it is like there, you and i have not been there.

we both agree what the somalian pirates are doing is wrong.
we both agree that the people who put them into this **** situation are wrong.

all i can see that we disagree on is the difficulty to get hold of weapons.

edit: and lastly, here is an article about a sea pirate from somalia, you see what you think of him:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8010061.stm

[porchrat]

this is how they see themselves, so no matter how many people get shot in the face, this is how the majority see their cause.
You don't defend your country from illegal fishing trawlers by ransoming innocent civilians and capturing oil tankers. I really couldn't care what these fscktards believe. There is no logical justification for their actions.



they have cash counters bought from Dubai, they have weapons bought from Yemen, they have their own base of operations in Harardhere where they even have their own stock exchange, they have rich muslims purchasing weapons on the behalf of the pirates to supply them.
Evidence please.



I personally have never been to Mozambique and cannot compare, but all i can do is read, and i get the feeling you thinking that there are weapons everywhere there is like tourists assuming they'll be raped the minute they'll walk outside here. maybe we don't know what it is like there, you and i have not been there.
I have been to Mozambique many times to many different locations and trust me there are indeed weapons everywhere. I once gave a dude a lift back into the local town and we were cruising down the road (beach sand mostly) and he screamed for me to stop the vehicle. Turns out a buck had jumped into view on the road behind us. He said he would get off there and promptly ran off excited into his friends nearby hut to fetch the dude's AK to blow away the freaking buck.

Weapons EVERYWHERE. All left over from that stupid civil war. Somalia's ongoing conflict is on such a scale compared to the one that is now largely over in Mozambique that I wouldn't be surprised if those pirates each had 3 or 4 backup AKs.



we both agree what the somalian pirates are doing is wrong.
we both agree that the people who put them into this **** situation are wrong.
Yea but you seem to be hinting that we shouldn't be calling the pirates what they are because of the mean old nasty fishing trawlers that are causing nastiness.

When mentioning how bad the pirates are there is no need to bring up the fishing trawlers. You cannot excuse or justify the kidnapping of innocent people because someone is taking all the fish so why bother even mentioning some other morons doing something else that is repulsive in the same area. I don't care what the underlying cause of the piracy is these pirates have no respect for human rights and the world would be better off without them. You cannot reason with these pirates, there is no room for compromise. They don't actually care about the fishing because if they did they would be attacking the actual trawlers and not innocent bystanders.

We don't look at someone that just kidnapped a woman and held her to ransom and go "well he was just recently illegally fired from his job and so that mean old nasty company also is in some way responsible". That company is NOT responsible in any way. That individual made his own choice and must bare responsibility for his actions. He had an alternative, he could have taken that company to court. Just as the pirates have an alternative - actually attack the ones that are causing the problem in the first place. They choose not to, they get cannon fire in their faces.



all i can see that we disagree on is the difficulty to get hold of weapons.
Do yourself a favour and do a little travelling in Africa to see just how easy it is to get weapons elsewhere on this continent. In my opinion your views on the matter are tainted by your limited experiences in this country in isolation. I don't think you fully appreciate just how screwed up Somalia is compared to us. Even Mozambique is a paragon of technological advancement and cultural sophistication in comparison to Somalia.

[STS]

Actually i've only ever read news articles and reports on it, i've never read actual articles on the pirates themselves. I DO feel they are justified now and feel until the world wakes up then these problems will continue to exist.

Dahir Mohamed Hayeysi:

- "Years ago we used to fish a lot, enough for us to eat and sell in the markets. Then illegal fishing and dumping of toxic wastes by foreign fishing vessels affected our livelihood, depleting the fish stocks."
- "Piracy is not just easy money - it has many risks and difficulties. Sometimes you spend months in the sea to hunt a ship and miss. Sometimes when we are going to hijack a ship we face rough winds, and some of us get sick and some die. Sometimes you fail in capturing and sometimes you come under threat by foreign navies, but all we do is venture. "
- "Thousands of young desperate Somali [migrants] continue to risk their lives in the sea in search of a better life abroad. So it is no surprise to see us in the same water, pirating in search of money - there is no difference. We have local support; most of the people here depend on pirates directly or indirectly. Because if there is a lot of money in the town they can get some through friendship, relatives or business."

Other article:

-Piracy investor Sahra Ibrahim, a 22-year-old divorcee, was lined up with others waiting for her cut of a ransom pay-out after one of the gangs freed a Spanish tuna fishing vessel. "I am waiting for my share after I contributed a rocket-propelled grenade for the operation," she said, adding that she got the weapon from her ex-husband in alimony. "I am really happy and lucky. I have made $75,000 in only 38 days since I joined the 'company'."


Here is an idea, instead of sending all these war ships to go bomb the hell out of these pirates, why don't they give funds and support to this country? I mean they rescue people from pirates but they could never prevent these foreign trawlers from going into their waters and stealing their fish with the superior boats and equipment.

Things just seem so easy and here we worry about stupid things like Kim Slutdashians million dollar wedding, what hair style Justin Beaver has, how well Prometheus is portrayed, etc

[STS]

When mentioning how bad the pirates are there is no need to bring up the fishing trawlers. You cannot excuse or justify the kidnapping of innocent people because someone is taking all the fish so why bother even mentioning some other morons doing something else that is repulsive in the same area. I don't care what the underlying cause of the piracy is these pirates have no respect for human rights and the world would be better off without them. You cannot reason with these pirates, there is no room for compromise. They don't actually care about the fishing because if they did they would be attacking the actual trawlers and not innocent bystanders.



this is where i disagree. then you might as well not mention Apartheid then when you ask why criminals are so poor that the resort to crime. i would never justify fighting and suffering, but you can't let some of the evil people go free simply because they are not the evil people you are looking for now. you find evil and you eradicate it. you find suffering and you fix it. it's easy to demonise people that inconvenience us forgeting that they are abused humans too. i bet you the majority of people in africa wish they could have a job with a regular salary and a car that runs.

nothing is going ot change my mind on thi snow after reading the last two articles porch, thanks for the chat and the suggestions :)

[porchrat]

All of this nonsense aside you are going to have to explain to me why how exactly the pirates logically arrive at the conclusion that they are defending themselves by kidnapping innocent people. I would really love to hear how they arrive at that conclusion because I know the explanation would be laughable at best.

Then you are going to have to explain why. if this is all caused by illegal fishing trawlers, the pirates aren't solving the real problem. They have the weapons, they have the manpower. Instead of devoting that manpower to blowing the illegal fishing trawlers out of the fscking water they kidnap Joe and Jane Soap and demand 33 million dollars because that is uh... how much they would earn normally fishing if those darn nasty trawlers weren't running around stealing all the fish. Schit man those fishing boats must be made of solid platinum and their wives must be living like the Kardashians if that is the case.

I mean come on.

[dualmeister]

Watched a bit on the Somali pirates in a documentary recently (Indian Ocean With Simon Reeve) and its true a lot of them turned to piracy when the fishing started to dry up. Also the prisons are full of pirates, however I cannot condone their actions.


News 24 latest

London - Somali pirates seizing Indian Ocean ships were responsible for at least 35 hostage deaths in 2011, a report showed on Friday, with levels of violence rising.

The number of prisoners taken by pirates fell to 555, at least, in 2011 from 645 in 2010, the report by the US-based One Earth Future foundation and International Maritime Bureau said.

Eight were known to have been killed by their captors either during their initial capture or were executed later, it said, with another eight dying of malnutrition or disease. The remainder were killed either during rescue attempts by military forces or while trying to escape.

While solid data on previous years is limited, the total of 35 is seen as by far the highest number of piracy-related fatalities in a single year.

"We know these figures are almost certainly an underestimate," project manager Kaija Hurlburt said. "A lot of the ships now being taken are regional dhows that are often never reported. They might have 12 to 20 people aboard each time."

Despite a major naval effort by several nations, hundreds of young Somalis engage in piracy every year in the hope of ransoms that can run to millions of dollars.

With some ship-owners apparently simply abandoning their vessels and crews, particularly the smaller more vulnerable craft, crews have found themselves held for ever longer periods.

Tougher action

As more and more merchant ships carry armed guards, foreign navies take tougher action and some ship-owners prove unable or unwilling to pay up, some believe piracy itself is getting harder - and that is being taken out on those in captivity.

At least 149 hostages had now been held for more than a year, the report said, with 26 held for more than two years. Many of those released reported abuse including beatings, removal of fingernails and dumping in the sea.

More than 40% said that at some stage they had been used as human shields, often when pirates sailed captured vessels back out to sea to act as mother ships for new attacks. Most hostages were from developing countries, particularly the Philippines, India and China as well as Gulf and African states.

The level of violence being used was also increasing, the report said. In 2011, more than 3 800 personnel were aboard ships that were attacked by pirates with firearms in what were often prolonged and brutal assaults.

Casualties among the pirates were also almost certainly on the rise, with reports of at least 111 killed in 2011, some 70% in clashes with increasingly aggressive naval forces.

Sad that as more armed forces start to get involved making it more dangerous to be a pirate they are becoming more aggressive towards hostages.

How pirates should be dealt with.


http://youtu.be/dc7kpM5Tzbo

[patrick]

I'm sitting inside somalia at the moment...

I've only been here a couple of days, but the people here seem quite unique. Very open, very respectful. Unlike the rest of africa, they do not beg from you just because you're white.

In the security briefing I was told that some governments pay the ransom. The US/UK don't, they send rescue teams, but Italy, germany and some other european nations do. From speaking to my collegues and the security guys here, keeping your word is extremely important to somalis, so if they say the ransom is x amount it will be that. In the rest of africa when you reach the amount they'll try raise it, but here you get released.

Interesting, our staff members who are still being held keep getting their salaries, but we don't pay ransom as part of our policy. At times we've used connections with influential people to get victims released, but it normally takes some time...

Ps camel meat is pretty good!