I am absolutely shocked

[craigsa]

Please can someone tell me why this thread was closed? http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=38601
I cannot believe this !! Wonder what the reason could be ?

[SkrewbalL]

Maybe some one was offended by Freshy-ZN talking about his "lilly white a$$"

[craigsa]

Ha ha sometimes i wonder about what the mods are thinking.........

[supersunbird]

I heard that the minister of safety has put up a draft of decreased gun restriction and testing, so who knows.

[craigsa]

Got the ammendments right here. Doe not look good as now you can be refused a competency cert (mandatory to get one) much easier. They do not want people to own firearms simple as that.

[Hastur]

Yeh, we might just use them to defend ourselves while being attacked in our own homes by alleged criminals (Who have more rights than law abiding citizens)

[BrianB]

I also couldnt see why that was closed, I cant see anything wrong with it, provided we still have freedom of speach.

[craigsa]

Well if anyone wants a copy just PM me. Looks like we are in for a big fight. By doing the training does not mean you will even get the competency cert. Gvt have more and more power to refuse without reason.

[craigsa]

Well someone must have moaned about it.

[hj2k_x]

i did not see anything wrong with it. Not necessarily my opinions, but it did not deserve deletion surely??

[craigsa]

Ah well maybe my comment to Tibby struck a nerve :D
Maybe the one who locked it can comment ?

[jabulani]

Please can someone tell me why this thread was closed? http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=38601
I cannot believe this !! Wonder what the reason could be ?

Probably because of this "You have to love this idiotic anc". I figure you can call Teklom idiotic here, but you might be offending people with such an overtly political heading, however correct some of us might think it is!


Behave now craigsa - no rocking the boat!!!
:p

Edit - PS - the mod could just have edited the heading I suppose.

[craigsa]

Ok i suppose you are right. Appologies. But you are 100% correct, edit the heading then. Although i was stating a fact. Not my opinion :D

[LoneGunman]

there have to be some utterly retarded Mods here, if an inoffensive subject heading like that can make some Mod or forumite whine like a baby with a nappy rash. That's really conducive to promoting open discussion. Turning everyone into simpering whiney 'lets not offend anyone' retarded little b1tches.

So what if you offend people with your point of view. Its YOUR point of view.

Get a thick skin and some maturity to process democratic behaviour - instead of bending over backwards in hopes of never 'offending' someone else.

You keep bending over backwards to fit in with other peoples sensitivity, you end up staring at your own genitals.

[DigitalSoldier]

while we on the subject of guns i saw in the paper that this new gun law has been taken away and its back to the old way u get the license and never have to renew it again like it always was

[LoneGunman]

gun GOOD :)
gun make people POLITE :)
everyone have gun, everyone on best behaviour.
therefore - gun GOOD :)

[bb_matt]

I'd have to agree - totally stupid move to lock a topic because it says "idiotic ANC"

But hey, apparently this place doesn't work under the premise of "freedom of speech" anymore - you know, that little thing that some people died trying to protect.

/me waits for the inevitable "this forum is for the discussion of broadband, if I had my way (I'd have you all shot) I'd close down 'Off Topic'"

In my opinion, the ANC are a bunch of retarded gimpoids dressed in Monkey Suits eating like pigs from a trough of Beetroot and Garlick.

But that's my opinion, others may beg to differ and say that the ANC are a bunch of idiotic spanners dressed as Clowns eating like terriers from a bowl of tripe and onions.

[Hobagoas]

while we on the subject of guns i saw in the paper that this new gun law has been taken away and its back to the old way u get the license and never have to renew it again like it always was


seriously? Cause I would have been up for that whole cr@ppy renewal process next year....so it would be nice to know that I dont have to fly all the way to SA just to get that done (although any excuse for a holiday back home is always welcome, of course...oh...and the gun is locked away in a safe...and the safe is in a safe place in my dads house...and the house has burglar bars and my 4 lovely doggies and a huge wall with electric fencing and security cameras wadda wadda...so no worries about the safekeeping of said gun :D )

[LoneGunman]

I agree, if I had to choose between the ANC, and the 'after' photographs on this colon cleansing site - I'd go with the scary fecal matter myself..
http://www.drnatura.com/picture_gallery.html?osCsid=8526644de944be9108d189 26d6fca131

[bb_matt]

I agree, if I had to choose between the ANC, and the 'after' photographs on this colon cleansing site - I'd go with the scary fecal matter myself..
http://www.drnatura.com/picture_gallery.html?osCsid=8526644de944be9108d189 26d6fca131

ROFL. :D

I'd rather eat the "products" shown in some of those photographs than choose the ANC.

[antowan]

I agree, if I had to choose between the ANC, and the 'after' photographs on this colon cleansing site - I'd go with the scary fecal matter myself..
http://www.drnatura.com/picture_gallery.html?osCsid=8526644de944be9108d189 26d6fca131

Anybody spot the "plastic" at the end of that newspaper? :p

[Freshy-ZN]

I will not make any apologies for my lilly white a$$. I do not sunbathe naked and it hasnt seen the light of day EVER!:D

[craigsa]

Guys the fiream law is going to be worse now. If anyone wants a copy of the proposed amendments please pm me.

[jabulani]

Thinking about the subject of this thread, my guess is that a tibby or tibby.clone posted an objection to your anc comment which is why it got locked so quickly.

[craigsa]

Yip my thoughts exactly.

[tibby.dude]

Thinking about the subject of this thread, my guess is that a tibby or tibby.clone posted an objection to your anc comment which is why it got locked so quickly.

So why don't you *****ing ask me instead of making rather baseless accusations very much like your hero Craig here ???.

And for the record your hero Craig is on my ignore list as I think he is a bloody fake and when cornered to back up his amazing stories with some believable FACTS he resorts to lame personal attacks.

So I did not read his sh*t and hence I did not ask for it to be locked.

[craigsa]

Jeez someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Relax Tibby we were just making a joke. Jeez.

[craigsa]

Dear Network Member,


PROPOSED FIREARMS CONTROL ACT AMENDMENTS

In a draft Bill released in Government Gazette No. 28545 dated 24 February 2006, the Government is proposing radical changes to the Firearms Control Act and has invited public comment BY 31 MARCH 2006. Please ensure that as many 'interested parties' as possible are made aware of the importance of their submissions. In view of the urgency of the matter our comments have been prepared in haste and should be regarded as 'preliminary'.

The electronically released Gazette (which is available on SAGA's website) contains errors/omissions - we will update our copy as soon as the government releases any corrections. Please note, however, that the Bill is a draft working document (the law has not yet been amended), and should be used only for information on which to base your input/representations. See end for submission information. (Please send SAGA a copy of your representations for record keeping purposes.)

The gazette contains a mixed bag of good and bad. Although it appears that all existing licences will be accepted as valid - subject to the owner obtaining a competency certificate - it also appears that the intention is to give the SAPS much greater (excessive?) discretion and power e.g. to refuse to issue competency certificates among other things. We must stress that, although 'old' licences MAY remain valid if the proposed amendments pass through Parliament unchanged, those who are scheduled to renew by 31 March 2006 are still required to do so. Of course the possibility of this change has already led to confusion and accusations of discrimination against those born during the first quarter of the year. As far as we can see, the only fair way of resolving the issue would be for the Minister to extend the deadline for licence renewals to a date AFTER the Bill will have been fully debated and passed in whatever form is finally found practical and acceptable. Until he does, you know what is expected of you.

In general, the amendments will further restrict/control firearm OWNERS while giving further powers to the police. The proposals themselves are completely silent on how to deal with the administrative chaos that has resulted from the implementation of the Act.

Furthermore, in order to give effect to the proposed changes, more regulations will be needed, thus complicating the situation even further.
The changes that have been proposed relating to the validity of existing licences also will create greater confusion as to the processes involved in becoming competent and the validity of existing licences and competency.

The proposed changes include:

1. Black Powder Firearms
The definition of antique firearms has been changed to cover only firearms manufactured before 1 January 1900 that are not nitro proofed or have been altered to fire a cartridge. Replicas will therefore have to be licensed.

2. Juristic Persons
The Act definition of juristic person will be amended to prevent Trusts from owning firearms; this will effectively eliminate the last remaining manner in the Act to inherit firearms.

[craigsa]

3. Cartridges
The definition of cartridge has been extended to include rimfire and shotgun cartridges.

4. Occasional Hunter and Occasional Sportsperson These definitions have been amended by the deletion of "but who is not a member of an accredited hunting [sporting] association". This means that, if you are an occasional hunter or sport shooter, you may be forced to become a member of an accredited hunting or sports shooting association.

5. Section 4 - Prohibited Firearms
This will now require the Registrar to issue a permit for possession of a silencer.

6. Section 8 - Accreditation
This is to be amended to provide a procedure for cancellation of accreditations by the insertion of a new section: Section 105(a).

7. Section 9 - Competency Certificates
It may appear that the proposed deletion of subsection 3 is innocuous but this is one of the most sinister amendments. Sub-section 3 deals with the requirements of competency and states that anyone who has been convicted of an offence specified in section 9, and has completed their sentence more than five years previously, is entitled to be deemed competent.
The deletion of this part means in essence that the SAPS can deny you a competency certificate for any misconduct which resulted in a criminal conviction, specified within the parameters of Section 9, no matter how trivial, longer than five years ago.
This means that applicants for a competency certificate, even if they have existing licences may be deemed incompetent as a result of a conviction much older than five years, and which took place prior to them being granted licences under the Arms & Ammunition Act. The effect of this proposal is to vastly increase the powers of the Registrar to deem people incompetent and appears to be one of the cornerstones of the proposed amendments. This is not an improvement but a blatant removal of rights.

8. Competency certificates remain valid for a period of five years. The renewal of a competency certificate appears to have been simplified by providing for a statement under oath that an applicant for a competency certificate still conforms to the competency requirements of the Act, to renew a competency certificate. However, more power has been granted to the Registrar to institute an enquiry into a person's competency, notwithstanding their ongoing compliance with the Act.

9. A further punitive provision has been introduced which states that anyone who makes a misrepresentation or false statement shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine or imprisonment not exceeding five years.

10. For sports shooters there is limited good news in that the magazine capacity limitation of five rounds on a semi automatic shotgun has been removed.

[craigsa]

COLLECTORS
11. The proposals relating to collectors are the harshest in the Act. All collectible firearms have to be "rendered inoperable" in accordance with the prescribed specification. It is clear that the police do not want collectible firearms to be used because they have deleted the provisions confirming that the owner may discharge collectible firearms where it is safe and lawful to do so. This, in effect, means that collectible firearms must be deactivated, yet they still need to be licensed.

12. Ammunition collectors are affected in a similar manner. All 'collected'
ammunition will have to be deactivated by having propellant and primer removed in the prescribed manner. The number of rounds that a person may collect as an ammunition collector is now reduced from two hundred to ten rounds per calibre.

13. The apparently good news is that Section 24 is deleted which means that
- if the Bill is passed - there will be no need to renew firearm licences; all existing firearm licences will remain valid unless the licence-holder does not comply with the Act, or is otherwise deemed incompetent. (Let me repeat however, that at this stage, the Minister is insisting that those who are due to renew by 31 March 2006 should still do so.)

14. Section 103 which deals with declarations of unfitness by a court has been expanded to give more powers to the Registrar to declare a person unfit even if a court has made a determination on a person's guilt by allowing the payment of an admission of guilt fine. This seems to amount to a situation of double jeopardy i.e. double punishment.

15. More important is the fact that the Registrar can now declare a person unfit at a Section 102 enquiry in the absence of the licence-holder at such enquiry, and may do so on the basis of a written complaint against the licence-holder. The Registrar may consider any other information or evidence at his disposal to make such declaration. Put simply, you may be declared unfit in your absence and without the power to cross-examine the complainant who has laid the complaint against you.

16. A new section has been added to the Act, Section 105(a), which deals with the procedure to remove accreditation from an accredited association.
This will now allow the Registrar to carry out his threats to de-accredit organizations who do not uphold Section 2 of the Act.

17. Section 109, which deals with the provisions relating to entry into premises, has been extended now to include residential premises, i.e. the police now have the right to inspect your home without a warrant.

18. If you are charged with the offence of losing, failing to report the theft, etc of a firearm, and fail to produce that firearm within seven days of being requested to do so, there is now a presumption that firearm has been lost, stolen, destroyed, etc.

19. A slightly more positive aspect is contained in Section 132 of the Act that allows the Minister to establish an informal consultative forum to deal with matters arising out of the Act.

20. The Appeal Board's powers have been extended in terms of Section 133 by allowing them to issue subpoenas for a person to give evidence or produce documentary evidence at an appeal.

21. Complaints have been raised about the destruction of valuable heritage firearms, and the Act now proposes that no destruction take place without the consent of the Registrar and in accordance with the National Heritage Act.

22. The transitional provisions are to be amended by the deletion of the five year validity period, i.e. should these amendments be passed, no firearm licence shall remain valid until the end of June 2009. A firearm licence will automatically terminate upon expiry of the time period - still to be specified by the Minister - for that particular licence-holder to obtain a competency certificate. Should you not apply for your competency certificate within the stipulated time period, you are obliged to hand over your firearms to the police services within twenty-four hours.

NOTE:
Please note that these are draft amendments and the brief comments provided are provisional and may be subject to change depending upon the final form of the amendments. Keep an eye on the press and our website for 'breaking news'.


Submission Information:

Send your comments/input by 31 March 2006 to:

Director P. van Vuuren
Post: SAPS Legal Services, Private Bag X302, Pretoria, 0001
Fax: (012) 309-3333
Email: pikkie1@webmail.co.za

[craigsa]

So Tibby is that rubbish ?

[jabulani]

So Tibby is that rubbish ?

Well I'm saving the page in case someone objects and it gets censored. Thanks for the info craigsa.

[craigsa]

It is my pleasure. We are having an urgent meeting early next week and i will keep you guys updated as it really does impact on all legal gun owners and innocent law abiding citizens.

[craigsa]

The gvt can now (by court order) call you in for an interview to interogate you if you apply for a firearm. Freedom in this country ?? Maybe if you are a criminal.

[nocilah]

aren't these proposed laws?

[craigsa]

Yes they are. They have made it clear that they are intending to pass these laws asap. They do not want to listen to the stakeholders and submissions (which by the way have been made thousands of times in the past) have to be in by end March. We think they are going to ignore the submissions anyway.

[nocilah]

hrm :/

[rasputyn]

I agree, if I had to choose between the ANC, and the 'after' photographs on this colon cleansing site - I'd go with the scary fecal matter myself..
http://www.drnatura.com/picture_gallery.html?osCsid=8526644de944be9108d189 26d6fca131

Thanks for that LG, now I've gone and chucked my cookies!