Today is Ash Wednesday - day of fast and abstinence. start of Lent

[Arthur]

Hundreds of millions of people around the world are fasting today, beginning the forty day preparation for the holiest and greatest feast in the Christian calendar: The Feast of the Resurrection.

* Christ fasted for 40 days in the desert in preparation for His public ministry
* After the Resurrection He appeared for 40 days before his Ascension
* Moses was on the mountain for 40 days and 40 nights
* The overflow of the Flood took 40 days, and cleared in 40 day cycles
* The Mosaic law prescribes 40 days of purification after giving birth
* The Isrealite recces searched for the Promised Land for 40 days
* Elijah fasted for 40 days
* Jonah warned the Ninevites that they had 40 days to repent
* .. and many more.

This is why Forty Days is a significant period in the traditional Western calendar. That's also why there are numerous poems and ballads and songs about "Forty Days" ... even SA troepies used to wait for "40 Days", the start of Min Dae before uitklaar.

Christ himself fasted often, and recommended it for spiritual reasons. Of course no-one believes that the mere abstention from food is virtuous in itself - the entire reason and purpose is spiritual, and without the spiritual motives of love and repentance (turning away from sin) it is pointless and perhaps even damaging.

Abstinence = abstaining from all meat, animal or fowl. This is in remembrance of Christ's Passion and Death, where His perfect love for humanity impels Him to lay down His life that we might live. Christians of course do not believe that any food is tainted and there are no kosher or halaal rules for Christians - meat is entirely acceptable, so the discipline is purely spiritual. Abstinence for bodily health or other reasons entirely defeats the purpose. Every Friday in Lent is also a day of abstinence, so no Friday burgers or braais. Hence the tradition of Friday fish 'n chips.

Each Sunday is of course a mini-Easter, so the rules of fast and abstinence do not apply on Sundays. Sundays are always joyful, festival days.

The day before Ash Wednesday is Carnival Day. Why? The etymology of the word carnival explains it all: carnival is from the Latin carne=meat, and vale=farewell, ie farewell to meat, signifying the start of Lent the next day. The Tuesday before Ash Wednesday was the last party day before the fast and abstinence of Lent, all in preparation for the boundless joy of the Feast of the Resurrection 40 days hence. That Tuesday before Ash Wednesday is also known as Shrove Tuesday in English countries, because the faithful go to Confession (ie get shriven, from the old English shrive, cleanse, purify, confess, repent).

Christians are expressly forbidden to show even the slightest evidence of any pain and suffering during the fast. Mt 6:16-18.

[Ninja'd]

I was under the impression the Israelites wandered for 40 years.


Christians are expressly forbidden to show even the slightest evidence of any pain and suffering during the fast. Mt 6:16-18.

Well f*** me.

[Arthur]

I was under the impression the Israelites wandered for 40 years.



Well f*** me.They did. Again the number 40. There are dozens of other 40 days, 40 years, and multiples of these. The Jewish scriptures contain a huge number of gematrial (number-assignations) references to signify spiritual meanings.

[copacetic]

I remember all this from years at Catholic school.

Very glad I don't have to be part of it any longer.

To those to whom it is important, enjoy.

[Arthur]

Copa, you clearly received a rather paltry religious education. And I can sympathise. So did I, hence my atheist decade.
Maybe it's time for serious adult stuff. Why not try The Last Superstition by Edward Feser?

[copacetic]

Copa, you clearly received a rather paltry religious education. And I can sympathise. So did I, hence my atheist decade.
Maybe it's time for serious adult stuff. Why not try The Last Superstition by Edward Feser?

Should I ever come across the book, I'll be happy to give it a go.

Perhaps though, religion is just not for me? There are plenty of folk who do just fine without it.

I don't suppose my panic attacks in mass helped matters much. :p

[Ninja'd]

I don't suppose my panic attacks in mass helped matters much. :p

Details :twisted:

[scudsucker]

Christians are expressly forbidden to show even the slightest evidence of any pain and suffering during the fast. Mt 6:16-18.

Matthew 6:16 makes no mention of pain or suffering - it just says, don't show off:



16 When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face,
18 so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

[zizo911]

Thanks for sharing, its always nice to learn about other religions :)

[waynegohl]

My 15 yr old is in Confirmation classes (did I spell it right), so yesterday we had to take her to church but last night they were selling pancakes and we/the parents were expected to buy them. Well, last night we do the noble thing and go in to buy the pancakes, now remember I am not a church goer but my family is, soooo anywhoo this old lady comes up to me and asks if we come to the 9 o clock service as she has never seen me/us before. I tell her I do not attend the service and do not attend the church and just walked pass and smelled the pancakes so popped in.

Well I think I am expected to attend church tonight for Lent as the family are going but I will try get out of it.

[Arthur]

Perhaps though, religion is just not for me? There are plenty of folk who do just fine without it.I have an inkling (from my own experience) as to what you understand by "religion" and of course you're right. Who needs belief in some nonsense GFSM Great Manipulator that robs people of liberty and dignity and causes hatred and war, inducing guilt and cowering subservience? Worse, so much religion is either sentimental claptrap and feelgoodism, or maniacal fanaticism that sees only principles and not flesh-and-blood people. That kind of religion is not just neutral - it is a positive evil and should be eradicated, by force if necessary, because it damages people and damages society.

Religion is not a virtue. The whole question ultimately depends on one thing and one thing only: what is true.

Truth is the only criterion. No belief, no matter how deeply or certainly held, is enough. Not even sincerity is enough, because one can be sincere but mistaken. I am sure you will agree on this: Truth is paramount.

Of course the next question is: so what's true?
Followed by a whole procession of questions leading to others, such as How do we know? What is knowledge? Says who? Why? Why? Why?

There are answers. And they are liberating.

But that's another discussion.

[Arthur]

Matthew 6:16 makes no mention of pain or suffering - it just says, don't show off:C'mon, don't be such petty literalist. The whole reason why fasting people disfigure their faces is to display evidence of their virtue for enduring the suffering of a fast ... that is why we are admonished to wash face, put oil on head (not a literal command to put on Brylcreem or some such stuff), precisely so that any internal pangs are not worn for public consumption. In summary: don't externally show you're having pangs so as to get people's admiration because you're so virtuous as to fast. Religion for show is despicable.

[copacetic]

I have an inkling (from my own experience) as to what you understand by "religion" and of course you're right. Who needs belief in some nonsense GFSM Great Manipulator that robs people of liberty and dignity and causes hatred and war, inducing guilt and cowering subservience? Worse, so much religion is either sentimental claptrap and feelgoodism, or maniacal fanaticism that sees only principles and not flesh-and-blood people. That kind of religion is not just neutral - it is a positive evil and should be eradicated, by force if necessary, because it damages people and damages society.

Religion is not a virtue. The whole question ultimately depends on one thing and one thing only: what is true.

Truth is the only criterion. No belief, no matter how deeply or certainly held, is enough. Not even sincerity is enough, because one can be sincere but mistaken. I am sure you will agree on this: Truth is paramount.

Of course the next question is: so what's true?
Followed by a whole procession of questions leading to others, such as How do we know? What is knowledge? Says who? Why? Why? Why?

There are answers. And they are liberating.

But that's another discussion.

I don't think I'm quite as cynical as you think I am. :p

Yes, indeed, what is truth?

Oddly, trying to answer that question has led me away from matters religious/spiritual/supernatural, etc.

[Arthur]

I don't think I'm quite as cynical as you think I am. :p

Yes, indeed, what is truth?

Oddly, trying to answer that question has led me away from matters religious/spiritual/supernatural, etc.Ok, maybe I was projecting a bit. I certainly thought so about religion. Sorry for expressing it strongly.

All I can say is Journey On!

[Rouxenator]

Lent(e) is eers in September bru.

[Arthur]

Lent(e) is eers in September bru.Hehe. :D Ja, die normale Afrikaanse term is Vastyd. Die Englese woord "Lent" is maar 'n kulturele ding en nie die korrekte teologiese term nie. Lent(e) is die gebruiklike Engelse term omdat die vastyd en Fees van die Opstanding (ook die tyd van die Pesach of pascha, of "Paas" in Afrikaans) in Isreal en noordelike halfrond in hulle lente plaasvind. Terloops, daar is ook 'n geestelike betekenis - lente is die begin van die Nuwe Seisoen van die Nuwe Lewe wat ons Heiland bring met sy dood en opstanding. Daar is geen spesifieke aardrykskundige betekenis of verwysing nie.

[yebocan]

means the pickled fish thing is not far behind....time to take the Star of David out of storage....

[Ninja'd]

means the pickled fish thing is not far behind....time to take the Star of David out of storage....

WUT

[Thugscub]

Paganism. When mankind stops believing in fairytales and believes in the All around him then we have hope.

[Arthur]

When mankind stops believing in fairytales and believes in the All around him then we have hope.You're dead right! Emphasis on All. Leaving out important sections of reality is less than ideal.

[yebocan]

WUT

me...spiritual, like to rotate...

[yebocan]

You're dead right! Emphasis on All. Leaving out important sections of reality is less than ideal.

+1

[ShaunSA]

Matthew 6:16 makes no mention of pain or suffering - it just says, don't show off:

Would making threads about it be included under showing off? :D :p

[Ninja'd]

me...spiritual, like to rotate...

You're gonna wear a Jewish symbol to celebrate a Christian festival :confused:

[marco79]

Well I think I am expected to attend church tonight for Lent as the family are going but I will try get out of it.

I attended mass @ 9am this morning. Tonight church is going to be packed.

[copacetic]

Paganism. When mankind stops believing in fairytales and believes in the All around him then we have hope.

What is this 'all'?

[Arthur]

You're gonna wear a Jewish symbol to celebrate a Christian festival :confused:Yebocan is quite right - the coming Feast is not only a Christian festival but also a sacred time for our Elder Brothers, the Jews - it is also the time of Pesach. As a faithful Jew, Yeshua kept the seder feast.

Part 1 : http://youtu.be/0d49a8tceis
Part 2 : http://youtu.be/u2QZiJp9_3o
Part 3 : http://youtu.be/-l4lxcVX5tA
Part 4 : http://youtu.be/aUaw7JU5W_8

[za1]

You're gonna wear a Jewish symbol to celebrate a Christian festival :confused:

I don't think thats what he meant, but if he did so what, the imaginary big flying monster spaghetti thingy doesnt care.
I guess this thread is about some religious holiday, cool, happy hannuka and what not

[Jab]

I don't think thats what he meant, but if he did so what, the imaginary big flying monster spaghetti thingy doesnt care.
I guess this thread is about some religious holiday, cool, happy hannuka and what not

Imaginary? :wtf: He is very real I can assure you, just look at reality, it's proof.

[waynegohl]

I attended mass @ 9am this morning. Tonight church is going to be packed.

I was doing my hair tonight so did not attend.

[Madman88]

...
Christians are expressly forbidden to show even the slightest evidence of any pain and suffering during the fast. Mt 6:16-18.


erm what bible are you reading from? Oh wait, you are listening to someone in a little white collar no?

[Arthur]

erm what bible are you reading from? Oh wait, you are listening to someone in a little white collar no?
Actually, pretty much every translation has Mt 6:16-18 quite accurately. Pick yours from over 200 languages:



“जब तू उपवास राखा तउ कपटी क नाईं दुःखी मुँह बनाइके जिन रहा। काहेकि उ पचे तरह स मुह्रँ बिसवत हीं ताकि लोगन्क इ मालूम होइ जाइ कि उ सबइ उपवास करत अहइँ। मइँ तोहसे सच कहत हउँ कि ओनका तउ बदले मँ फल मिलि चुका अहइ। 17 मुला जब तू उपवास राखा तउ आपन मूँड़ प जैतून क तेल लगावा अउर आपन मुँहना धोवा। 18 जेसे लोग इ न भाँप सकइँ कि तू उपवास करत अहा। मुला तोहार परमपिता जेका तू निहार नाहीं सकत्या देखइ कि तू उपवास करत अहा। तबहिं तोहार परमपिता जउन तोहरे छमा भवा कामे क देखत रहत ह, उ तोहका ओकरे बदले मँ फल देई।

16 ᎠᎴ ᎾᏍᏉ ᎠᎹᏟ ᎢᏨᏍᎨᏍᏗ, ᏞᏍᏗ ᏅᎾᏠᎾᏍᏗ ᏄᎾᏍᏛ ᏱᏂᏣᏍᏕᏍᏗ, ᎤᎾᏓᏙᎵᏍᏗ ᏥᎨᏐ ᏗᎧᏃᏗᏱ, ᏂᏓᏤᎸᎾᏰᏃ ᏂᏓᏅᏁᎰ ᏚᎾᎧᏛᎢ, ᏴᏫᏉ ᎤᎾᏙᎴᎰᎯᏍᏗᏱ ᎤᎾᏚᎵᏍᎪ ᎠᎹᏟ ᎠᏅᏍᎬᎢ. ᎤᏙᎯᏳᎯᏯ ᏂᏨᏪᏎᎭ ᎨᎦᎫᏴᎡᎸ.

17 ᏂᎯᏍᎩᏂ ᎠᎹᏟ ᎲᏍᎨᏍᏗ, ᎭᏠᏁᏍᎨᏍᏗ, ᎠᎴ ᎭᎬᏍᏉᏍᎨᏍᏗ,

18 ᎾᏍᎩ ᏞᏍᏗ ᏴᏫᏉ ᎨᏣᏙᎴᎰᎯᏎᏗᏱ ᏱᏣᏰᎵᏎᏍᏗ ᎠᎹᏟ ᏨᏒᎢ, ᏣᏙᏓᏍᎩᏂ ᎤᏕᎵᏒ ᎡᎯ, ᏣᏙᏓᏃ ᎤᏕᎵᏒ ᎠᎪᏩᏘᏍᎩ, ᎠᏎ ᏣᎫᏴᎡᏗ ᎬᏂᎨᏒᎢ.

وَعِنْدَمَا تَصُومُونَ، لاَ تَكُونُوا عَابِسِي الْوُجُوهِ، كَمَا يَفْعَلُ الْمُرَاؤُونَ الَّذِينَ يُقَطِّبُونَ وُجُوهَهُمْ لِكَيْ يَظْهَرُوا لِلنَّاسِ صَائِمِينَ. الْحَقَّ أَقُولُ لَكُمْ إِنَّهُمْ قَدْ نَالُوا مُكَافَأَتَهُمْ.

17 أَمَّا أَنْتَ، فَعِنْدَمَا تَصُومُ، فَاغْسِلْ وَجْهَكَ، وَعَطِّرْ رَأْسَكَ،

18 لِكَيْ لاَ تَظْهَرَ لِلنَّاسِ صَائِماً، بَلْ لأَبِيكَ الَّذِي فِي الْخَفَاءِ. وَأَبُوكَ الَّذِي يَرَى فِي الْخَفَاءِ، هُوَ يُكَافِئُكَ.

16 כאשר אתם צמים, אל תפגינו זאת לפני כולם, כפי שעושים הצבועים. הם מנסים להראות עצובים ושהם בצום. הם יקבלו את מה שמגיע להם. 17 אך אתם, כאשר אתם צמים, סדרו וטפחו את מראכם, 18 כדי שאיש לא יחשוב שאתם רעבים – מלבד אביכם שבשמים הרואה במסתרים, והוא ייתן לכם את השכר המגיע לכם.

16 Также, когда поститесь, не будьте унылы, как лицемеры, ибо они принимают на себя мрачные лица, чтобы показаться людям постящимися. Истинно говорю вам, что они уже получают награду свою.

17 А ты, когда постишься, помажь голову твою и умой лице твое,

18 чтобы явиться постящимся не пред людьми, но пред Отцом твоим, Который втайне; и Отец твой, видящий тайное, воздаст тебе явно.

16 “And when you fast, do not look dismal, like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by men but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you

Et cetera.

[bwana]

You should try giving up thread necromancy for lent.

[Nerfherder]

I wonder if anyone gives up choir boys for lent ?

[Alan]

.Christians are expressly forbidden to show even the slightest evidence of any pain and suffering during the fast. Mt 6:16-18.

I take it that applies to any suffering due to the fasting. If these is another source it is okay?

[ShaunSA]

You should try giving up thread necromancy for lent.

:D

[Johnone]

But the Pope gave up the Papacy for Lent.

[CarsinemiA]

I'm such a good Catholic... I gave up religion for lent many years ago... I'm still doing good.

[Cius]

You should try giving up thread necromancy for lent.

Bwahaha!