Goodbye Lions, Hello Kings?

[DWPTA]

Goodbye Lions, Hello Kings?

It can be goodbye Lions, hello Kings come 2013 as a political decision has been endorsed to allow only ONE TEAM per PROVINCE.

Lappe Laubscher reporting exclusively for RuggaWorld.com asks the question of exactly who is uninformed and who is trying to fool who?

PLEASE NOTE: The heading an intro is not the making of the author but was done in the editing process.

Newspaper stories in South Africa suggests that the South Africa Rugby Union is in a highly embarrassing situation after the board promised the Southern Kings franchise of Port Elizabeth that they will play in the Super 15 competition next year.

SANZAR is adamant that there is no place for a sixth South African franchise in the competition and SARU thus far has kept mum on the issue.

But facts tell a different story. A story of the behind the scenes influence of politics and big money.

Let us look at these facts.

Last month there was a major indaba between the Minister of Sport, the department of sport and the various stakeholders in South African sport at the historic Wanderers Club in Johannesburg. At this indaba a document on the future of South African sport was presented by the department of sport was endorsed by the minister and the various delegates.The document is now the official document on the policy of the South African government on sport.In the document, among various other issues, it is stated that as from 2013 no sport will be allowed to enter more than one team per province in any competion. At the moment the South African teams in the Super 15 are Bulls (Pretoria and Gauteng), Lions (Johannesburg and Gauteng), Cheetahs (Bloemfontein and the Free State), Stormers (Cape Town and Western Cape) and lastly Sharks (Durban and KwaZulu-Natal).

It is obvious from this document that the Gauteng province will only be allowed to enter one team and will have to choose between the Bulls and the Lions or combine these two teams.

The Southern Kings` home is Port Elizabeth and the Eastern Cape.

In the last week of January 2012 the Gumede group brought an application for the liquidation of the Golden Lions Rugby Union. There has been no decision on this application. This group was a previous co-sponsor of the GLRU. The group claimed that the Lions owe them more than R90 million. Thus far Mr Kevin de Klerk, the president of the GLRU has denied this claim. In his denial he was unclear whether he only denies the quantum of the claim or whether he denies the claim as such.

Sail (Pty) Limited, a group in the Rupert stable with a major interest in various sport and leisure activities in South Africa, has an interest in most of the South African rugby franchises with the exception of the Lions. Unconfirmed reports indicate that this group also has an interest in the Southern Kings. The Rupert-group also has a direct interest in Supersport, the company who has the South African broadcast rights for the Super 15 and in Media 24, South Africa’s largest media group. The face of Sail is the highly respected former Springbok captain, Morne du Plessis.

Lastly it is also a known fact that rugby has come in for a lot of pressure from the South African government for their seemingly unwillingness to provide opportunities for black players to perform at top level. The new CEO of SARU, Jurie Roux, has committed himself to rectify this position.

Allmost from the sidelines, the Tshwane Sports Council has already announced on its website that the colours for teams representing the region (that includes Pretoria and the Bulls) will in future play in be black, green and gold. This will mean the end of the famous blue jerseys that the Bulls used to play in.

In the meantime, the Bulls announced in a seemingly unrelated move that they will in future play in a jersey with diagonal lines in various shades of pink across the chest in their games away from home. According to a press release, that simply doesn’t make sense, this is to “scare” their opponents.

With all these facts as a background it only makes political sense to bring the Super Kings to the party as soon as possible. The only stumbling block at the moment is sponsorship deals in which the players and some of the franchises are involved.

It seems as if SARU is deliberately delaying the announcement of who the Super Kings will replace till the end of the 2012 Super 15 competition to accommodate present sponsorships.

How all this will affect smaller unions like Boland and Border remains to be seen.

In the meantime Cycling SA has almost quietly announced that the sport has last weekend adopted a new constitution to bring it in line with the new government policy.

RW: Laubscher is a retired sports journalist and specialises as an historian in the fields of sport and the Anglo Boer War. He is resident in Pretoria.

Goodbye Lions, Hello Kings? (http://www.ruggaworld.com/2012/02/22/goodbye-lions-hello-kings/#comment-484597)

[skimread]

Goodbye Lions. Goodbye Bulls. Hello again Highveld Cats.

[DWPTA]

Goodbye Lions. Goodbye Bulls. Hello again Highveld Cats.

Just not rugby, what about cricket? Titans and the Highveld Lions? Then we are not even talking about the soccer teams!!!

[skimread]

Just not rugby, what about cricket? Titans and the Highveld Lions? Then we are not even talking about the soccer teams!!!A Blue Bull supporter.

I think you missed this gem.


Allmost from the sidelines, the Tshwane Sports Council has already announced on its website that the colours for teams representing the region (that includes Pretoria and the Bulls) will in future play in be black, green and gold. This will mean the end of the famous blue jerseys that the Bulls used to play in.Blue Bulls draped in ANC colours.:whistle:

[DWPTA]

A Blue Bull supporter.

I think you missed this gem.

Blue Bulls draped in ANC colours.:whistle:

I might live in Snor City, but not a Bulls supporter, a proud Lion supporter :P

Yes I think we can expect an up rising.

[MickeyD]

Time for all those lazy-assed sports fans to cast their votes in the next election instead of bitching from the sidelines :p

[greg0205]

Time for all those lazy-assed sports fans to cast their votes in the next election instead of bitching from the sidelines :p

+ 1 Trillion (I guess we can start using numbers like that now ;) )
Don't forget that Tshwane and the Eastern Cape were the two provinces people were saying would be close in the last election... Get off your ass next time you get a chance to tick a box other than the ANC one... Mmkay.

[McT]

Why not "Goodbye Bulls, Hello Kings"? Why must it be the Lions to go? After all, they won the Currie Cup last year :confused:

[GreGorGy]

+ 1 Trillion (I guess we can start using numbers like that now ;) )

+1 BullLion (I guess we can make up numbers like that too :) )

[McGuywer]

Why not "Goodbye Bulls, Hello Kings"? Why must it be the Lions to go? After all, they won the Currie Cup last year :confused:

And before that?

History tells us that the Bulls is a better team than the Lions. It's just facts. Especially if you are talking in the context of Super Rugby.

[AfricanTech]

Weren't Sail the buggers who pulled out of the Cape Town Stadium deal?

As an aside, it STILL boggles my mind that when they built the World Cup Stadia that the design criteria excluded future use for Rugby and/or Cricket.

[bwana]

Weren't Sail the buggers who pulled out of the Cape Town Stadium deal?

As an aside, it STILL boggles my mind that when they built the World Cup Stadia that the design criteria excluded future use for Rugby and/or Cricket.:confused: More rugby is currently being played at Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium than anything else.

[sand_man]

Is this the same Southern Kings that lost 88-0 to the Lions in a friendly a couple of weeks ago???

I've said it before and I'll say it again, in a competition like the Super 6/10/12/14/15 there are no weak teams but the franchise's that battle tend to be the South African one's.

Now include the Kings in that equation, a team there purely on the back of a big political push and not merit and you can guess the rest..

[bwana]

Is this the same Southern Kings that lost 88-0 to the Lions in a friendly a couple of weeks ago??? I doubt next years team will bear much of a resemblance to next years one given the R10mill that has been earmarked to the Kings.

[DWPTA]

I doubt next years team will bear much of a resemblance to next years one given the R10mill that has been earmarked to the Kings.
Agreed, but I'm suspicious that the team will be as the rest of the other franchises, white with the odd spec. They will buy players from other unions/clubs and as usually the local players will be told to hold on, they will get chance to play. When in matter of fact Cheeky and co. will pocket all the money and the locals will not get 1c.

[Devill]

Why not "Goodbye Bulls, Hello Kings"? Why must it be the Lions to go? After all, they won the Currie Cup last year :confused:

No McT sorry but think logically. why would you drop the only SA team to have won the Super Cup (barring the lions in the old S10 which was not under SANZAR)?


+1 BullLion (I guess we can make up numbers like that too :) )

I read a great article on this and I would not be too upset if this became reality. One of my mates actually emailed me a combined team already :D

EDIT: Here is the article - http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Could-Bulls-Lions-combo-work-20120131

[sand_man]

I read a great article on this and I would not be too upset if this became reality. One of my mates actually emailed me a combined team already :D

EDIT: Here is the article - http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Could-Bulls-Lions-combo-work-20120131

I would accept this on one condition. All home matches are played exclusively at FNB Stadium. I reckon the combined support such a team would garner would ensure the stadium is close to capacity for every home fixture. Add to that the convenience of Gautrain and there no excuses...

Obviously this would never happen and left with the choice between Loftus and Ellis park I would choose the former...

[mmmig]

They should just return to the super 12 and have the top four teams in each domestic competition compete.

[Devill]

I would accept this on one condition. All home matches are played exclusively at FNB Stadium. I reckon the combined support such a team would garner would ensure the stadium is close to capacity for every home fixture. Add to that the convenience of Gautrain and there no excuses...

Obviously this would never happen and left with the choice between Loftus and Ellis park I would choose the former...

Yes that will be the major problem... where do we host it.

Orlando Stadium? Although I am not sure if the Bulls supporters will move from Loftus :(

[BeVonk!]

http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w480/BeVonk/I_support_the_Lions.jpg

[GreGorGy]

I'd embrace it and FNB in a heartbeat. You see, most of my chinas are Lions or Sharks (the ones who jumped from loser lions) and to have those that stayed loyal to the Lions through thick and thin join me in supporting the same side would be fantastic. Dunno how they'd take it though cos they all say "Lions then whoever plays the Bulls"

[cr@zydude]

They should just return to the super 12 and have the top four teams in each domestic competition compete.

There isn't any domestic rugby (union) in Aus, thats's why we have the conference format.

Also Super Rugby franchises are technically diffrent to Currie Cup unions

[MickeyD]

Is this the same Southern Kings that lost 88-0 to the Lions in a friendly a couple of weeks ago???

I've said it before and I'll say it again, in a competition like the Super 6/10/12/14/15 there are no weak teams but the franchise's that battle tend to be the South African one's.

Now include the Kings in that equation, a team there purely on the back of a big political push and not merit and you can guess the rest..

That "Kings" team contained none of the currently contracted players and consisted of players from the Border and SWD sub-unions.

[Xmailer9]

They should just return to the super 12 and have the top four teams in each domestic competition compete.

Super 12 was the best.

[Devill]

That "Kings" team contained none of the currently contracted players and consisted of players from the Border and SWD sub-unions.

The problem is if they can't field enough players to be CLOSE to competative for 4-5 weeks then how in <insert deity's name> do they want to compete in a minimum 15 week tournament!?

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[MickeyD]

The problem is if they can't field enough players to be CLOSE to competative for 4-5 weeks then how in <insert deity's name> do they want to compete in a minimum 15 week tournament!?

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Huh? They had played the Cheetahs, Bulls and Stormers and were about to play the Sharks on the Saturday. What did you expect them to do? The match was also played in George, not PE

[SukkaFoo]

Man, I can't WAIT to go watch some super 15, personally I couldn't give a rats a$$ how SARU does it. We were cheated of this a decade ago, and I hope SARU gets sued into the ground if it doesn't happen. On a side note, it makes sense to can the lions since they could afford to sue SARU anyway :p

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk

[Devill]

Huh? They had played the Cheetahs, Bulls and Stormers and were about to play the Sharks on the Saturday. What did you expect them to do? The match was also played in George, not PE

Mickey I am saying if they do not have sufficient players (of quality) to manage this, then how will they do in the harshest Rugby compitition in the world? did you see how the lions struggled last year with one or two key players lost? See how the Cheethas bring in young players to cover the injuries sustained in the Super Rugby season? How will the Kings manage this?

The Bulls beat them with a weakened young currie cup team imo.

[MickeyD]

Mickey I am saying if they do not have sufficient players (of quality) to manage this, then how will they do in the harshest Rugby compitition in the world? did you see how the lions struggled last year with one or two key players lost? See how the Cheethas bring in young players to cover the injuries sustained in the Super Rugby season? How will the Kings manage this?

The Bulls beat them with a weakened young currie cup team imo.
No Super 15 team has ever played 5 Super 15 games in 14 days...

[MickeyD]

Mickey I am saying if they do not have sufficient players (of quality) to manage this, then how will they do in the harshest Rugby compitition in the world? did you see how the lions struggled last year with one or two key players lost? See how the Cheethas bring in young players to cover the injuries sustained in the Super Rugby season? How will the Kings manage this?

The Bulls beat them with a weakened young currie cup team imo.
Note where quite a few of those "young blood" players come from...

[MickeyD]

Don't get me wrong... the current Kings' squad will not fare well in the S15 and will have to be supplemented with quite a few "big name" players in key positions.

[Devill]

Don't get me wrong... the current Kings' squad will not fare well in the S15 and will have to be supplemented with quite a few "big name" players in key positions.

Ok, thought we missed each other there. Also the 10mil going to the kings might buy them a couple of okish players for one or two seasons.

I do not think people realise what these players earn. R28k / month is the minimum iirc. 28 x 12 = 336k a year per player, and that is for the "bottom of the barrel" players.

[mmmig]

Ok, thought we missed each other there. Also the 10mil going to the kings might buy them a couple of okish players for one or two seasons.

I do not think people realise what these players earn. R28k / month is the minimum iirc. 28 x 12 = 336k a year per player, and that is for the "bottom of the barrel" players.
I think they only get paid for pre-season and regular season months

[HOLY MAnIAC]

Yes that will be the major problem... where do we host it.

Orlando Stadium? Although I am not sure if the Bulls supporters will move from Loftus :( Didn't the bulls play in Soweto for the semi's before the fifa world cup and the turn out was spectacular, granted They took a little long to get there.

[Devill]

I think they only get paid for pre-season and regular season months

I have never seen a rugby player working in the off season, not even the lowly earners.

I might be wrong though.

[Devill]

Didn't the bulls play in Soweto for the semi's before the fifa world cup and the turn out was spectacular, granted They took a little long to get there.

And yes they did, the turn out was great.

[HOLY MAnIAC]

I have never seen a rugby player working in the off season, not even the lowly earners.

I might be wrong though.
hmm... does training count as working for them?

[mmmig]

I have never seen a rugby player working in the off season, not even the lowly earners.

I might be wrong though.
I was referring to Super Rugby Franchises, they pay their players for just their pre-season and regular season and on top of that players also get paid by their Domestic Franchises

[Devill]

I was referring to Super Rugby Franchises, they pay their players for just their pre-season and regular season and on top of that players also get paid by their Domestic Franchises

:erm: Yes but lets be honest, those are pretty much the same things. In the case of the Kings even more so.

Also will the EP not play CC but they will be included in the Super Rugby?

[bwana]

:erm: Yes but lets be honest, those are pretty much the same things. In the case of the Kings even more so.

Also will the EP not play CC but they will be included in the Super Rugby?The EP Kings narrowly missed promotion in 2010 and had no chance whatsoever in 2011 due to the downsizing. It's pretty common knowledge that they backed the reduction of the premier division in return for a shot in the Super Rugby series.

[Devill]

The EP Kings narrowly missed promotion in 2010 and had no chance whatsoever in 2011 due to the downsizing. It's pretty common knowledge that they backed the reduction of the premier division in return for a shot in the Super Rugby series.

I was refering to the $$$$ issue. The players will not settle to only be the books of the Kings. No player will settle imo to just play for half of the rugby season.

[bwana]

I was refering to the $$$$ issue. The players will not settle to only be the books of the Kings. No player will settle imo to just play for half of the rugby season.
Clarify "kings". We've got the EP Kings and the Southern Kings.

I don't see why most wouldn't play for both (or for one of the other two teams) but maybe you do?

[Devill]

Clarify "kings". We've got the EP Kings and the Southern Kings.

I don't see why most wouldn't play for both (or for one of the other two teams) but maybe you do?

My point is they will play super rugby and then play in first division not come back to CC. Now I would like to see the SKs pay their "super stars" the big bucks to play in the first division.....

Or will the SKs let their players play else where when it is not Super Series season?

Or will SARU just plug the Kings into the CC as well?

[bwana]

My point is they will play super rugby and then play in first division not come back to CC. Now I would like to see the SKs pay their "super stars" the big bucks to play in the first division.....

Or will the SKs let their players play else where when it is not Super Series season?Honestly, no idea.

I also don't know what conditions the NMBM's r10 mill will come with. Can EP rugby use it for things other than Super Rugby, like CC? If so will that give the EP kings an unfair advantage over the other two teams?

[Devill]

That is why I really think this whole thing has not been thought through.

The EP could spend a lot of money in 2-3 years time and still not be competing in the CC.
Add to this the fact that if then do not perform in the Super Series the sponsors will not be standing in line.

Keeping "big names" around will not be cheap and without proper backing and a plan "B" for when they are not playing in the Super Series I can not see this ending well.

[bwana]

That is why I really think this whole thing has not been thought through.Who says it hasnt been thought through? All I know is I'm not privy to the inner workings of EPRU. The announcement of the R10mill was only made a week or two ago but that doesn't mean it wasnt on the cards for a while.

[Devill]

Who says it hasnt been thought through? All I know is I'm not privy to the inner workings of EPRU. The announcement of the R10mill was only made a week or two ago but that doesn't mean it wasnt on the cards for a while.

By looking at how everything has gone in the last years I am fairly sure that it is not merely that they want to keep it secret.... I might be wrong but I doubt it.

Well we will see in a couple of weeks after SARU have spoken to SANZAR.