Burning of Koran is ‘America’s worst PR disaster in Afghanistan

[killadoob]

Seven people have been killed and dozens injured in protests over the burning of the Koran by US troops at an airbase in Afghanistan. An officer has apologized for the inadvertent burning. Yet some are saying apologies will not work here.

*Zaid Hamid, a defence analyst at the independent think tank BrassTacks, thinks that the incident is a total nightmare for the Americans, as it may now turn local former allies against them.

“So far they have been facing the resistance from the Pashtun elements, but incidents like these are actually galvanizing the non-Pashtun elements. The Tajiks, the Khazars and the Uzbeks, who were supposedly allied to the Americans so far, are turning hostile,” he told RT. “[The incident] will extend and expand the base of the resistance against Americans.”

In situations like this, Hamid added, apologies do not tend to work. “This is the worst PR disaster that the Americans could have at this moment, when they are at the most vulnerable,” he concluded.

The demonstrations have prompted the US to lock down its embassy in the capital, Kabul, and bar its staff from traveling.

http://rt.com/news/burning-koran-worst-afghanistan-001/

OMG the americans can be dumb at times.

[Picard]

In situations like this, Hamid added, apologies do not tend to work.

Only the letting of blood will work.

[The Voice]

Jeez, Muslims need to lighten up...

/donsflamesuit

[Aqua_lung]

The US military claims it was an accident...

[DigitalSoldier]

http://rt.com/news/burning-koran-worst-afghanistan-001/

OMG the americans can be dumb at times.

as opposed to the Afghanis who base their entire life on a fairy tale and are prepared to murder people because the paper their fairy tale is printed on is burned.

[TheHiveMind]

Jeez, Muslims need to lighten up...

/donsflamesuit

Just like that koran

[DigitalSoldier]

The US military claims it was an accident...

So what if it wasn't an accident ?

FFS, these people in the middle east need to wake up! Its a fscking book written by a war mongering pedophile!

[porchrat]

How the heck do they dispose of old Korans?

[Hemi300c]

And those that it was aimed against weren't abiding by it anyhow.

[Aqua_lung]

So what if it wasn't an accident ?

FFS, these people in the middle east need to wake up! Its a fscking book written by a war mongering pedophile!

So was the bible?

[porchrat]

So what if it wasn't an accident ?

FFS, these people in the middle east need to wake up! Its a fscking book written by a war mongering pedophile!
Actually he was illiterate.

Just saying...

[Aqua_lung]

as opposed to the Afghanis who base their entire life on a fairy tale and are prepared to murder people because the paper their fairy tale is printed on is burned.

What would the reaction be if the US was occupied by a majority Muslim nation and they found bibles being burnt?

[(@) (@) twister]

How the heck do they dispose of old Korans?

Eat it - so they could be at one with it.

[Aqua_lung]

Since you're not following the news... Some Afghans protesting were shot by their own police, so not all are rioting.

edit:
response to a deleted post

[Alan]

What would the reaction be if the US was occupied by a majority Muslim nation and they found bibles being burnt?

nothing.

Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/)

I wonder how many riots and killings that caused :erm:

This is just the MSM causing **** again trying to inflame tensions and undermine the war. Nothing new, move along.....

[Aqua_lung]

nothing.

Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/)

I wonder how many riots and killings that caused :erm:

This is just the MSM causing **** again trying to inflame tensions and undermine the war. Nothing new, move along.....

They were in pashto and dari, sent for proselytizing. Not considered sacred.

[DigitalSoldier]

So was the bible?

and ?

The subject here is the Koran.

Aqua_lung, every time the Koran/Islam receives bad publicity you are quick to point out something in the bible.

[Aqua_lung]

Aqua_lung, every time the Koran/Islam receives bad publicity you are quick to point out something in the bible.

Really?

[DigitalSoldier]

nothing.

Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/)

I wonder how many riots and killings that caused :erm:

This is just the MSM causing **** again trying to inflame tensions and undermine the war. Nothing new, move along.....

Now just to wait for killa to give the RT link for Christian American suicide bombers :p

[DigitalSoldier]

Actually he was illiterate.

Just saying...

:o

ok,, a religion created by an illiterate, war mongering pedophile :p

[zahpat]

:o

ok,, a religion created by an illiterate, war mongering pedophile :p

based on what information? information that You want to beleive?

[ghostbuster]

Wow an illiterate can surely think of all these sort of things

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html

[MR V]

based on what information? information that You want to beleive?

Sometimes it's best to leave ignoramuses be

[ghostbuster]

Sometimes it's best to leave ignoramuses be

Its difficult to argue with stupid people they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

[MR V]

Its difficult to argue with stupid people they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

I meant with this quote



:o

ok,, a religion created by an illiterate, war mongering pedophile :p

[gdiza]

As much as religion upsets people, you need to respect each other's religion.

If you don't agree with it, you can just keep that to yourself.

Aiiiiiiiii!!! The people in Afgan are crazy about their religion - you don't want to mess with crazy people.

[MR V]

As much as religion upsets people, you need to respect each other's religion.

If you don't agree with it, you can just keep that to yourself.

Aiiiiiiiii!!! The people in Afgan are crazy about their religion - you don't want to mess with crazy people.

+1 - how difficult can it be to respect other peoples religion - I guess some people weren't brought up with good morals and ethics

[za1]

Sometimes it's best to leave ignoramuses be

not cool to call the dude an ignoramus when you yourself are the one who is probably being ignorant.

[copacetic]

As much as religion upsets people, you need to respect each other's religion.

If you don't agree with it, you can just keep that to yourself.

Aiiiiiiiii!!! The people in Afgan are crazy about their religion - you don't want to mess with crazy people.

How are you meant to respect a religion that causes people to murder other people, because a ****ing book got accidentally burned?

If religions were like genitals:

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web03/2010/9/3/6/religion-is-like-a-keep-it-inside-11297-1283509798-5.jpg

There'd be no issue. :p

[MR V]

not cool to call the dude an ignoramus when you yourself are the one who is probably being ignorant.

and what do you base that on?

[TheHiveMind]

+1 - how difficult can it be to respect other peoples religion - I guess some people weren't brought up with good morals and ethics

People dying over nothing. Very ethical.

[za1]

and what do you base that on?

on fact, but lets not let facts interfere with your beliefs :whistle:

[Thugscub]

Little Afghanistan, the Russians tried to wipe them out now the Americans just leave them alone. And they would probably wipe themselves out.

[MR V]

on fact, but lets not let facts interfere with your beliefs :whistle:

Once upon a time I actually wasted energies on fruitless debates with thick-headed individuals - I don't any more.

[za1]

Once upon a time I actually wasted energies on fruitless debates with thick-headed individuals - I don't any more.
LOL, then why retort and call him an ignorumas, why not just ignore and move on, yet you stoop to name calling, I wonder in you are jk8 recloned for the billionth time :)

[ghoti]

http://rt.com/news/burning-koran-worst-afghanistan-001/

OMG the americans can be dumb at times.

Not as dumb as people getting violent and marching because those pieces of paper were burnt. Theyre the dumbest of the lot. Bottom of the barrel. I see several soldiers have already being killed for that accidental burning. Absolutely disgusting savages those rioters.

[killadoob]

Not as dumb as people getting violent and marching because those pieces of paper were burnt. Theyre the dumbest of the lot. Bottom of the barrel. I see several soldiers have already being killed for that accidental burning. Absolutely disgusting savages those rioters.

No they are dumb if you know the story you will know a few things.

1. you don't burn the book of people who will die for it. Dumb
2. If you do decide to burn the book you don't ask people who are willing to die for it to do the burning you get your soldiers to do it. dumb

Slowly but surely america is losing allies and anti american sentiment is growing. See it's the same kind of attitude you have ghoti that has got them in the position they are now in.

[daveza]

As much as religion upsets people, you need to respect each other's religion.

No, you don't.

Respect for religion like respect for anything or anyone else must be earned, not demanded nor expected.

[ghoti]

No they are dumb if you know the story you will know a few things.

1. you don't burn the book of people who will die for it. Dumb
Not as dumb as people willing to kill for it. The book was not banned... it was discarded in a way that some people dont approve of. Those people choose to become evil over an act where no one is harmed. Evil is evil no matter how much you try apologize for it.


Slowly but surely america is losing allies and anti american sentiment is growing. See it's the same kind of attitude you have ghoti that has got them in the position they are now in.

I dont see the reality in your opinion. Sorry. I see America working closely with so many countries. You got so many countries in SEA embracing America (from Vietnam through to the Phillipenes. You got countries like Australia asking for a small American base to be built near Darwin. You got the Arab League working closely with America and the UN. Only a couple of countries that are fully anti-american.. and to the last one they are fully corrupt and authoritarian. Seems the dictators are going down one by one :D Times are a changing. The jasmine revolution is pushing through the world and eventually even your buddy Putin will fall to the will of the people.

The internet has changed the world. Pulling down your corrupt buddies one by one.

[Garyvdh]

It was a mistake... a stupid, dumb, thoughtless, careless and irresponsible act... but a mistake nonetheless.

I highly doubt it would be deliberate... what would they stand to gain from doing something like that deliberately?

But whatever happens, the Americans can do no right, and frenzied frothy mouthed, spitting, crazies will be calling for blood and killing more people everywhere they can... just because that's what they do, and because they can (maybe they like it... I dunno).

How is burning a book, the same as taking a human life? That just flabbergasts me.

[Kosmik]

A truly stupid thing to do.

[Randhir]

1. you don't burn the book of people who will die for it. Dumb

Sorry, that's a stupid thing to say, especially if it was, as they claim, by accident. I'm not saying that these people are dumb, but if they aren't, they're highly brainwashed.

And I don't have a problem with them dying for it. It's the killing of others that is outrageous.

[killadoob]

Sorry, that's a stupid thing to say, especially if it was, as they claim, by accident. I'm not saying that these people are dumb, but if they aren't, they're highly brainwashed.

And I don't have a problem with them dying for it. It's the killing of others that is outrageous.

Do you remember that american pastor that burned that book on youtube? Remember the chaos one book caused.

The simple fact is the last thing the US needed was to turn the afghan people against them and that is what this mistake has done. It may just be a book to me and you but to them it's something they worship. You really don't want to piss off people who will kill for something as stupid as this.

The issue is not that they burned books for most people, the issue is what it means to have made such a big mistake. People who were allies are going to turn on them. LOL funny stuff. I would have thought the constant murdering of civilians would turn the afghan people against america.

The internet has changed the world but sometimes not for the good, like this story has spread like wild fire and caused the issue to explode.

Daveza you think burning religious books is fine?

[Garyvdh]

It may just be a book to me and you but to them it's something they worship.

I thought they worshiped Allah? :confused:

[killadoob]

I thought they worshiped Allah? :confused:

So what is in the book?

[Garyvdh]

So what is in the book?

I dunno... you tell me.

[copacetic]

I thought they worshiped Allah? :confused:

The book seems to be profoundly important, depictions of it even.

There was a thread on the the Diablo 3 forums involving a tome in the game artwork somewhere, that looked vaguely like a Qur'an (due to a pattern on the cover).

Which launched a huge thread, absolutely full of Muslims demanding that particular model be removed from the game (and this was just a tiny background object, that would lie on the floor, decoratively).

Absurdity, in my opinion.

Mind you, I think many Christians would be highly distressed to find a bible being used as a doorstop/toilet paper/joint material and there have been many Christians protesting the game itself as evil, so the madness is balanced to some degree. It's just that the Christians were violent about it a couple centuries ago, and the Muslims are violent about it now... :D

[Tun@]

Friday tomorrow so its likely to wind up some more i'd expect

[killadoob]

I dunno... you tell me.

Dude they think their GOD or whatever is talking through the book. Here i went to Reuters and pulled and found an article for you. So awesome that they discussed the exact topic that you are not really sure about.

Funny how it works that way sometimes :D.

It's going to wind up for much longer tuna. I think with one mistake the US are now the bad guys among all groups in afghanistan.

Really as that article points out, they should have known how to destroy the books but then all they know how to do is bomb shyte.

[zahpat]

I thought they worshiped Allah? :confused:

Yes, and this is the book of Allah!

[zahpat]

So what is in the book?

why dont you take time and read it, and find out?

[nightjar]

I'm not saying that these people are dumb, but if they aren't, they're highly brainwashed.
.

That is what religion is all about.

God, in all his many formats, was independently invented by chiefs and despots around the world as a way of controlling the ignorant, mindless and unthinking masses. Christianity and Islam are striking examples of their success.

[Mineer]

It was a mistake... a stupid, dumb, thoughtless, careless and irresponsible act... but a mistake nonetheless.

I highly doubt it would be deliberate... what would they stand to gain from doing something like that deliberately?

But whatever happens, the Americans can do no right, and frenzied frothy mouthed, spitting, crazies will be calling for blood and killing more people everywhere they can... just because that's what they do, and because they can (maybe they like it... I dunno).

How is burning a book, the same as taking a human life? That just flabbergasts me.

I actually agree to this post, I don't even know where to put my face after reading this, its really odd more sad cos of the loss of life, I agree to the point that it looks like they looking for a reason to kill. the real kicker tho is the best way to discard old Qurans is .... burning

[killadoob]

why dont you take time and read it, and find out?

Perhaps look at what i was replying to.

No thanx i am not a huge fan of fairy tales, if i am going to read something it will be current news, events and so on or i will watch the movie :D.

Yea religious folk are a bit silly but each to their own hey.

[ghoti]

Yea religious folk are a bit silly but each to their own hey.

No.. its not each to their own. If it was each to their own then those soldiers would not be dead.

[daveza]

Daveza you think burning religious books is fine?

I take it this is in response to my comments on respect....

I don't think burning any books is fine. But somewhere we need to take a step back just to get some perspective.

It's a pile of books, not a historic artefact that after burning will be lost forever.

Was it not the Taliban who destroyed the sacred Buddhist statues - a lot less replaceable no ?

[killadoob]

No.. its not each to their own. If it was each to their own then those soldiers would not be dead.

Actually if the americans just took other people into account, the books would not have been burned and the soldiers would be alive. I guess though it is easier to blame the people rioting than it is to accept the bad mistake made and ensure it never happens again.

To me and you it's a pile of books but to millions it's the word of their GOD. Burn the books and they will kill the people responsible. The thing is the US know this, i could understand if nobody knew how crazy these people are, fair enough but they know.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what matters is trying to get them to accept the apology but i think this time saying sorry won't cut it. They should perhaps ship in some books and hand them out or something. Do a bit more than saying we are sorry, it works when they kill civilians but this time they need more than sorry.

[ghoti]

Actually if the americans just took other people into account, the books would not have been burned and the soldiers would be alive. I guess though it is easier to blame the people rioting than it is to accept the bad mistake made and ensure it never happens again.

To me and you it's a pile of books but to millions it's the word of their GOD. Burn the books and they will kill the people responsible. The thing is the US know this, i could understand if nobody knew how crazy these people are, fair enough but they know.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what matters is trying to get them to accept the apology but i think this time saying sorry won't cut it. They should perhaps ship in some books and hand them out or something. Do a bit more than saying we are sorry, it works when they kill civilians but this time they need more than sorry.

Anyone who is willing to kill for a book (in this context)... is evil. Dont try excuse that evil or apologize for it... as it would make you evil. End of story. Even Mineer a Muslim is upset with the savagery You seem to be the only human trying to apologize or shift blame for this savagery. Hectic.

I find myself in the weird place of completely agreeing with mineer and +repping him :D

[wise_guy]

I don't think the Afghans are intellectually capable of dealing with the symbolism of burning a Quran.To most Muslims desecration of anything associated with Islam is seen as hostility and the burning of bridges as it were.
If this happens anywhere else in world where Muslims adhere to a higher degree of tolerance and respect the sanctity of life quiet protest and dialogue can be entered into to diffuse the situation.
Unfortunately in a place like Afghanistan and Pakistan lack of proper education and guidance has created a wholly violent society that are reactive rather than proactive.

[DigitalSoldier]

I actually agree to this post, I don't even know where to put my face after reading this, its really odd more sad cos of the loss of life, I agree to the point that it looks like they looking for a reason to kill. the real kicker tho is the best way to discard old Qurans is .... burning

I know a lot of times, I will insult Islam, but its due to the fact that Muslims are willing to kill people because of a drawing of their prophet or because something as silly as in this OP. Then a lot of Muslims will try and defend those violent murdering savages as witnessed even in this thread.

But Mineer, I have huge respect for you, I know you are a Muslim, and it also seems like you are one of the very few that will openly speak out against these atrocities.

[Garyvdh]

Dude they think their GOD or whatever is talking through the book.


Yes, and this is the book of Allah!

So if one of the books are accidentally burned then poor Allah can't speak to them anymore?

If that is their opinion of their own Deity, then they don't have much respect for him do they now?

Surely they must believe that Allah is all powerful, so burning a few books (when there are already millions of copies in the world) is not going to hinder him in the slightest?

so which is it? What do they believe? Is he all powerful? Or does burning a few books cause him a major setback?

[zahpat]

So if one of the books are accidentally burned then poor Allah can't speak to them anymore?

If that is their opinion of their own Deity, then they don't have much respect for him do they now?

Surely they must believe that Allah is all powerful, so burning a few books (when there are already millions of copies in the world) is not going to hinder him in the slightest?

so which is it? What do they believe? Is he all powerful? Or does burning a few books cause him a major setback?

it is about respecting the book of God. its not about Allah getting angry, its about the worshippers.

if you hold something thats dear to you and some one takes that and burns it or does something to it, how would you feel?

[Garyvdh]

it is about respecting the book of God. its not about Allah getting angry, its about the worshippers.

if you hold something thats dear to you and some one takes that and burns it or does something to it, how would you feel?

If it didn't actually belong to me, I would not feel anything. It was an accident.

Should I go out and protest and kill a few squatters when there is a shack fire and a Bible gets accidentally burned in the shack fire?

[Aqua_lung]

the real kicker tho is the best way to discard old Qurans is .... burning

So this should be a non issue then... people like stirring I suppose.

[daveza]

"As a matter of official policy, the government either incinerates or dumps Bibles, crosses and other Christian paraphernalia," the Saudi Institute said in an article posted on its website.

"Although considered as holy in Islam and mentioned in the Koran dozens of times, the Bible is banned in Saudi Arabia, and is confiscated and destroyed by government officials," it said.

True ?

[Mineer]

So this should be a non issue then... people like stirring I suppose.
I don't know to be honest

[daveza]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Destruction_of_Buddhas_March_21_2001.jpg

Taliban destroy sacred Buddhist statues.

But when their religious objects are destroyed....

[wise_guy]

I know a lot of times, I will insult Islam, but its due to the fact that Muslims are willing to kill people because of a drawing of their prophet or because something as silly as in this OP. Then a lot of Muslims will try and defend those violent murdering savages as witnessed even in this thread.

But Mineer, I have huge respect for you, I know you are a Muslim, and it also seems like you are one of the very few that will openly speak out against these atrocities.

I think you'll get a lot more muslims agreeing with your point of view if your first course of action is not to vilify and deride Islam.
Your comments about the prophet are completely out of context and goes against the grain of creating stimulating dialogue.
This attitude creates barriers and prejudices which is not what we want to achieve here.

And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames.(Quran 49:11)

[ghoti]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Destruction_of_Buddhas_March_21_2001.jpg

Taliban destroy sacred Buddhist statues.

But when their religious objects are destroyed....

I remember crying when I saw that happen. Reminded me of when the Christians sacked the Great Library of Alexandria.

Ug... makes me angry even today.

[killadoob]

I remember crying when I saw that happen. Reminded me of when the Christians sacked the Great Library of Alexandria.

Ug... makes me angry even today.

Crying, Really? Guess you know how they feel when someone destroys their books then, you cry they kill. I guess crying is the better option if i am totally honest :D

[Mineer]

I think you'll get a lot more muslims agreeing with your point of view if your first course of action is not to vilify and deride Islam.
Your comments about the prophet are completely out of context and goes against the grain of creating stimulating dialogue.
This attitude creates barriers and prejudices which is not what we want to achieve here.

And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames.(Quran 49:11)
+1000 :love:

[porchrat]

Crying, Really? Guess you know how they feel when someone destroys their books then, you cry they kill. I guess crying is the better option if i am totally honest :D
One is a book with millions, if not billions, of copies throughout the world. The other is an irreplaceable historical landmark.

[DigitalSoldier]

I think you'll get a lot more muslims agreeing with your point of view if your first course of action is not to vilify and deride Islam.
Your comments about the prophet are completely out of context and goes against the grain of creating stimulating dialogue.
This attitude creates barriers and prejudices which is not what we want to achieve here.

And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames.(Quran 49:11)

*****footing around the issue does not help as most of the time Muslims will try and shift the blame. Unlike almost every other Muslim in this thread Mineer did not try to do that. I see your quote and I will also quote something from the Quran (I suspect you will call it out of context):


Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."


Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."


Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"


Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

There are many more I can quote, but unfortunately I have other things to do.

[daveza]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Destruction_of_Buddhas_March_21_2001.jpg

Taliban destroy sacred Buddhist statues.




"Buddhist outrage was immediate. Taliban peasants were rounded up, tortured and beheaded.
Muslim temples were set alight in an orgy of revenge and retribution."

A Buddhist spokesman said, " We will not stand idly by while our religion is attacked and our icons desecrated - we will mercilessly avenge this blatant sacrilege and their blood will flow like rivers - all in the name of our peaceful religion" - Wonkypedia.

Hmmmm.

[Aqua_lung]

Taliban destroy sacred Buddhist statues.

If the US never backed them against the USSR they would still just be simple farmers and not trained militants and those statues might still be there.

The motivation for these barbaric acts is closely woven between each Abrahamic religion.


Deuteronomy 12:3
Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles in the fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places.

[DigitalSoldier]

Hmmmm.


A Buddhist spokesman said, " We will not stand idly by while our religion is attacked and our icons desecrated - we will mercilessly avenge this blatant sacrilege and their blood will flow like rivers - all in the name of our peaceful religion"

LOL!

[Alan]

If the US never backed them against the USSR they would still just be simple farmers and not trained militants and those statues might still be there.

What a surprise to see you spin this to blame the U.S :rolleyes:

and if the U.S had never supported the USSR in their fight against the Nazis there would never had been a Communist invasion of Afghanistan. Around we go

[killadoob]

Hmmmm.

So basically it is just a normal religious battle, been going on for thousands of years.

They should just do away with religion and many issues will be solved. How about a religion called care for each other :D. That way we all believe in the same thing.

Instead of worshiping these man made GODS that only drive the human population to kill in their name we worship each other. Well not worship but just tolerate hmmm or something along those lines but i am sure you get where i am going :p

[Aqua_lung]

Hmmmm.

Religion is a funny thing.

[zahpat]

There are many more I can quote, but unfortunately I have other things to do.

Maybe you should add in the paragraph also where these quotes where taken from, so everyone can see if its taken out of context or not. Just saying.

[wise_guy]

*****footing around the issue does not help as most of the time Muslims will try and shift the blame. Unlike almost every other Muslim in this thread Mineer did not try to do that. I see your quote and I will also quote something from the Quran (I suspect you will call it out of context):
There are many more I can quote, but unfortunately I have other things to do.


Indeed I agree with you that both Americans and Afghans should be held responsible for the death of people brought on by the burning of the Quran,but insults and name calling does not strengthen your argument.In fact it weakens it.
As for quotes fighting in the time of war to ensure the perseverance and protection of a race is perfectly within context.

[porchrat]

Indeed I agree with you that both Americans and Afghans should be held responsible for the death of people brought on by the burning of the Quran,but insults and name calling does not strengthen your argument.In fact it weakens it.
As for quotes fighting in the time of war to ensure the perseverance and protection of a race is perfectly within context.
No Americans are not to blame. If your response to someone burning their private property is to kill someone then your response is out of line. The blame falls squarely on your shoulders. End of story.

[daveza]

fighting in the time of war to ensure the perseverance and protection of a race is perfectly within context.

So Hitler was just doing the right thing.

And Verwoerd for that matter.

[DrYes]

Instead of worshiping these man made GODS that only drive the human population to kill in their name we worship each other.

Steve Jobs is dead dude.

[Garyvdh]

Indeed I agree with you that both Americans and Afghans should be held responsible for the death of people brought on by the burning of the Quran,but insults and name calling does not strengthen your argument.In fact it weakens it.
As for quotes fighting in the time of war to ensure the perseverance and protection of a race is perfectly within context.

The only thing that Americans are to blame for is the stupid moronic accidental burning of some books.

Anything that came after that is the responsibility of those who went overboard and over reacted.

You can't blame the original party for somebody else's over reaction... that is just stupid.

[wise_guy]

No Americans are not to blame. If your response to someone burning their private property is to kill someone then your response is out of line. The blame falls squarely on your shoulders. End of story.

Its a simple case of cause and effect.Why create conditions for mass slaughter when you are fully aware that your actions will lead to mass slaughter.
We are not dealing with rational ,civilsed educated people here so the proper protocol needs to be followed in this situation.
If you go into a jungle knowing that there are dangerous animals, you cant blame the animals when you get eaten by one of them.

[Garyvdh]

Its a simple case of cause and effect.Why create conditions for mass slaughter when you are fully aware that your actions will lead to mass slaughter.
We are not dealing with rational ,civilsed educated people here so the proper protocol needs to be followed in this situation.
If you go into a jungle knowing that there are dangerous animals, you cant blame the animals when you get eaten by one of them.

That's just it... they didn't know that this would happen. It was a mistake.
If it was deliberate, then yes... we might have this silly discussion.
But without any deliberate action... how can you KNOW that they were fully aware?

And even then... being fully aware of a potential outcome, does not actually make you guilty of another person's independent actions.

Let each man bear his own guilt.

[za1]

Instead of worshiping these man made GODS that only drive the human population to kill in their name we worship each other. Well not worship but just tolerate hmmm or something along those lines but i am sure you get where i am going :p


Hey, I agree well, sort of
We could start worshipping say Scarlett Johannson
argh wont work cause then the people that worship blondes will fight with the brunettes and then the crazy gingers, its all a lost cause from the start

[wise_guy]

The only thing that Americans are to blame for is the stupid moronic accidental burning of some books.

Anything that came after that is the responsibility of those who went overboard and over reacted.

You can't blame the original party for somebody else's over reaction... that is just stupid.

so which is it?

[wise_guy]

So Hitler was just doing the right thing.

And Verwoerd for that matter.

No one persecuted Hitler or Verwoerd for that matter.

[daveza]

Its a simple case of cause and effect.Why create conditions for mass slaughter when you are fully aware that your actions will lead to mass slaughter.
We are not dealing with rational ,civilsed educated people here so the proper protocol needs to be followed in this situation.
If you go into a jungle knowing that there are dangerous animals, you cant blame the animals when you get eaten by one of them.

So if you're equating these irrational uncivilised people with dangerous animals then it should be okay to shoot them. :erm:

[wise_guy]

That's just it... they didn't know that this would happen. It was a mistake.
If it was deliberate, then yes... we might have this silly discussion.
But without any deliberate action... how can you KNOW that they were fully aware?

And even then... being fully aware of a potential outcome, does not actually make you guilty of another person's independent actions.

Let each man bear his own guilt.

Were the said American soldiers born yesterday.This was not the first and probably won't be the last Quran burning episode that has lead to violent protests in Afghanistan.They have to call it a mistake to soften the blow of what is seen as a major step back in their war against terror.
Not guilty but responsible to a certain degree given the conditions they are in.These actions goes against the goal of what they want to achieve.

[daveza]

In the 21st century it is staggering that there are still people who believe it's right to kill others over a book!

It's at times like these that those who call for the outright banning of all religious practices start sounding like moderates.

There is no doubt the world would be a far more peaceful place without all this self-righteous bs.

[wise_guy]

So if you're equating these irrational uncivilised people with dangerous animals then it should be okay to shoot them. :erm:

If you feel your life is in immediate danger, then yes,by all means.
Shoot the one that wants to kill you.

[wise_guy]

In the 21st century it is staggering that there are still people who believe it's right to kill others over a book!

It's at times like these that those who call for the outright banning of all religious practices start sounding like moderates.

There is no doubt the world would be a far more peaceful place without all this self-righteous bs.

People will kill over piece of paper in your wallet,so whether its over a book or frown killing except for self defence is wrong and this needs to be communicated all over the world.

[Garyvdh]

so which is it?

Which is what? Can you read?

The only thing the Americans are to blame for is a mistake.
You can't blame them for the actions of a third party.

How are you having a problem with that? Or is grammar not your strong point?

[Garyvdh]

Were the said American soldiers born yesterday.This was not the first and probably won't be the last Quran burning episode that has lead to violent protests in Afghanistan.They have to call it a mistake to soften the blow of what is seen as a major step back in their war against terror.
Not guilty but responsible to a certain degree given the conditions they are in.These actions goes against the goal of what they want to achieve.

None of us have disputed any of that. In fact everybody in this thread has agreed that it was a very stupid thing for them to do.
So what is your point?

[daveza]

In fact everybody in this thread has agreed that it was a very stupid thing for them to do.

But it also shows the hypocrisy of the Taliban who could care less for the desecration of other religions sacred relics.

So why should we care about a few instantly replaceable books.

[Garyvdh]

But it also shows the hypocrisy of the Taliban who could care less for the desecration of other religions sacred relics.

So why should we care about a few instantly replaceable books.

no, I totally agree.

[Lefornicator]

So what if it wasn't an accident ?

FFS, these people in the middle east need to wake up! Its a fscking book written by a war mongering pedophile!

Such biased statements.

Easy to say whatever you want on the internet.
If i met you in person ill really beat the **** out of you. You disrespectful

[daveza]

If i met you in person ill really beat the **** out of you.

How very peaceful.

[Garyvdh]

Such biased statements.

Easy to say whatever you want on the internet.
If i met you in person ill really beat the **** out of you. You disrespectful

Thanks for validating our generalisations! :D

[Randhir]

I guess though it is easier to blame the people rioting than it is to accept the bad mistake made and ensure it never happens again.

FFS! Yes! Can't you see the difference?

[Mineer]

Such biased statements.

Easy to say whatever you want on the internet.
If i met you in person ill really beat the **** out of you. You disrespectful


"Oh you who believe! Persevere in patience and constancy. Vie in such perseverance, strengthen each other, and be pious, that you may prosper." Quran(3:200)


"Patiently, then, persevere - for the Promise of Allah is true, and ask forgiveness for your faults, and celebrate the praises of your Lord in the evening and in the morning."
Quran (40:55)

[DigitalSoldier]

Such biased statements.

Easy to say whatever you want on the internet.
If i met you in person ill really beat the **** out of you. You disrespectful

Are you part of the religion of peace ?

[DigitalSoldier]

Maybe you should add in the paragraph also where these quotes where taken from, so everyone can see if its taken out of context or not. Just saying.

I did add that.

You will see next to each quote is the verse from the Quran quoted as well ;)

[DigitalSoldier]

@BOYAH and Mineer,

With regards to God/Allah, does he care more about a book being burned or people that he created (even though they might be infidels) being killed ?

[Mineer]

and a few more for lefornicator

"And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant.""
Quran 28:55

"And have patience with what they say, and leave them with noble (dignity)
Quran 73:10

[Cloudster]

Dunno, some Americans really love their country and I'm sure they're just as p!ssed off when they see people burning their flag.

So I dunno, everyone is burning stuff that the other side places value in... just the level of retaliation seems to differ.

[zahpat]

I did add that.

You will see next to each quote is the verse from the Quran quoted as well ;)

i meant the whooole thing

[wise_guy]

@BOYAH and Mineer,

With regards to God/Allah, does he care more about a book being burned or people that he created (even though they might be infidels) being killed ?

this might help answer your question:


whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely- 5:32


And those who do not invoke with Allah another deity or kill the soul which Allah has forbidden to be killed 25:68


Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.2:190


Perhaps Allah will put, between you and those to whom you have been enemies among them, affection. And Allah is competent, and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.60:8

[daveza]

Think I'm just going to pop out and burn an atheist.

Why should the religious be the only ones who get annoyed.

[Mineer]

@BOYAH and Mineer,

With regards to God/Allah, does he care more about a book being burned or people that he created (even though they might be infidels) being killed ?

My humble opinion would be life of a person over rules a book being burnt
but consider the following verse

Al-Shura Chapter 42 : Verse 40 "And the recompense of an injury is an injury the like thereof; but whoso forgives and his act brings about reformation, his reward is with Allah. Surely, He loves not the wrongdoers."

the like thereof else where in the holy Quran it is stressed not go over the bounds so when injured by someone you are by rights able to injure back in an equal manner but it is better for you to forgive those who injure you.

Applying the logic burning the holy Quran equates to death :wtf:.... I just don't see it as an equal injury.

[Alan]

Dunno, some Americans really love their country and I'm sure they're just as p!ssed off when they see people burning their flag.

So I dunno, everyone is burning stuff that the other side places value in... just the level of retaliation seems to differ.

lol no biggie just a minor difference in the level of retaliation.....

[Nicodeamus]

I once burned a school textbook of mine, it had more value than a fictitious book written by a 1500 year old kiddie-fiddler.

[Picard]

I once burned a school textbook of mine, it had more value than a fictitious book written by a 1500 year old kiddie-fiddler.

I did the same with Private Law II (Law of Succession).

[killadoob]

In the deadliest day of unrest so far, at least 12 people died across the country, as mobs charged at US bases and diplomatic missions.

More than 20 people have been killed since the unrest began, including two US soldiers who died on Thursday.

President Barack Obama has apologised for the Koran-burning incident.

In a letter to his Afghan counterpart Hamid Karzai, Mr Obama said the books had been "unintentionally mishandled".

US personnel apparently put the books into a rubbish incinerator at Bagram air base, near Kabul.
Spreading unrest

Most of the deaths reported on Friday were in western Herat province, which had seen little unrest previously.
Continue reading the main story
Analysis
Bilal Sarwary BBC News, Kabul

After the anger expressed in the Afghan parliament on Wednesday, where mullahs were prompted to encourage demonstrations, it was certain that protests would last until Friday.

The fact that crowds targeted police stations shows how frustrations were driven not just by Koran burnings but also by issues such as such insecurity, poor governance, corruption and unemployment.

Afghan forces, particularly the intelligence agency, clearly need to improve their performance as they failed for a second day to identify groups and individuals wanting to take advantage of the chaos. Some protesters in Kabul were armed and managed to open fire on the police.

It seems likely that protests will fizzle out on Saturday, unless there is appetite in the establishment for more anger to be vented. But it will take the US a long time to repair its image, and this may prove a costly mistake in the campaign to win hearts and minds.

A group of demonstrators tried to attack the US consulate in Herat city, burning police vehicles and leaving several officers injured.

Hospital officials confirmed four people had been killed, but it was unclear how they had died.

Another four people died near the town of Adraskan, 70km (45 miles) south of Herat city.

Elsewhere in Afghanistan:

About 1,000 people took to the streets of Baghlan, north of Kabul, and one person was reported killed
In Kabul, hundreds of people poured on to the streets to take part in several rallies after Friday prayers; police said a protester was shot and killed accidentally when other demonstrators opened fire
Two demonstrators were killed in Khost province
Several thousand people protesting in Nangarhar blocked a main road

Reports say isolated protests have also broken out in Pakistan, where there is a tradition of angry anti-US rallies.
'Major error'

Earlier on Friday, Nato commander in Afghanistan, Gen John Allen, appealed for calm.

Nato Gen John Allen: "American soldiers do not stand for this"

"I call on everyone throughout the country - Isaf members and Afghans - to exercise patience and restraint as we continue to gather the facts," Gen Allen said in a statement.

"Working together with the Afghan leadership is the only way for us to correct this major error and ensure that it never happens again."

Muslims consider the Koran the literal word of God and treat each book with deep reverence.

And the various apologies from Nato and the US have not cooled the anger on the streets, says the BBC's Orla Guerin in Kabul.

On Thursday the Taliban had called on Afghans to attack "invading forces" in revenge for "insulting" the Koran.

Last year, at least 24 people died in protests across Afghanistan after a hard-line US pastor burned a Koran in Florida.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17152705

Boy o boy things are heating up.

[Garyvdh]

he fact that crowds targeted police stations shows how frustrations were driven not just by Koran burnings but also by issues such as such insecurity, poor governance, corruption and unemployment.

So it seems it is not just about the book burning, but about other more deep seated long standing issues. :rolleyes:

[unskinnybob]

Off topic perhaps but did they compare which burned faster: bible or quran?

[DigitalSoldier]

I once burned a school textbook of mine, it had more value than a fictitious book written by a 1500 year old kiddie-fiddler.

To be safe rather not call him a kiddie-fiddler. Some people around here find that very disrespectful and will want to [-]blow[/-] beat you up :D :p

[Pr⊕phet]

Burning of Koran is ‘America’s worst PR disaster in Afghanistan.Takes a big boy to burn a book hey.

[killadoob]

Takes a big boy to burn a book hey.

So this isn't a pr disaster?

[Pr⊕phet]

So this isn't a pr disaster?

Quite sure you can deduct what I said.

[copacetic]

Most American media accounts and commentary about the ongoing violent anti-American protests in Afghanistan depict their principal cause as anger over the burning of Korans (it’s just a book: why would people get violent over it?) — except that Afghans themselves keep saying things like this:

Protesters in Kabul interviewed on the road and in front of Parliament said that this was not the first time that Americans had violated Afghan cultural and religious traditions and that an apology was not enough.

“This is not just about dishonoring the Koran, it is about disrespecting our dead and killing our children,” said Maruf Hotak, 60, a man who joined the crowd on the outskirts of Kabul, referring to an episode in Helmand Province when American Marines urinated on the dead bodies of men they described as insurgents and to a recent erroneous airstrike on civilians in Kapisa Province that killed eight young Afghans.

“They always admit their mistakes,” he said. “They burn our Koran and then they apologize. You can’t just disrespect our holy book and kill our innocent children and make a small apology.”

And:

Members of Parliament called on Afghans to take up arms against the American military, and Western officials said they feared that conservative mullahs might incite more violence at the weekly Friday Prayer, when a large number of people worship at mosques.

“Americans are invaders, and jihad against Americans is an obligation,” said Abdul Sattar Khawasi, a member of Parliament from the Ghorband district in Parwan Province, where at least four demonstrators were killed in confrontations with the police on Wednesday.

The U.S. has violently occupied their country for more than a decade. It has, as Gen. Stanley McChrystal himself explained, killed what he called an “amazing number” of innocent Afghans in checkpoint shootings. It has repeatedly — as in, over and over — killed young Afghan children in air strikes. It continues to imprison their citizens for years at Bagram and other American bases without charges of any kind and with credible reports of torture and other serious abuses. Soldiers deliberately shot Afghan civilians for fun and urinated on their corpses and displayed them as trophies.

http://www.salon.com/2012/02/26/the_causes_of_the_protests_in_afghanistan/singleton/

[daveza]

"You can’t just disrespect our holy book and kill our innocent children and make a small apology.”

Hmm, let me check on the size of the apology for disrespecting and blowing up Buddhist holy places.... gosh, none at all, not even a tiny one.

[copacetic]

Hmm, let me check on the size of the apology for disrespecting and blowing up Buddhist holy places.... gosh, none at all, not even a tiny one.

Which does not make the slaughter of their children by an invading army acceptable.

*edit*

In any event, the article is not defending their behaviour, just pointing out the usual very bad journalism about the situation.

[daveza]

Which does not make the slaughter of their children by an invading army acceptable.



Granted in spades.

Double standards offend me though.

[copacetic]

Double standards offend me though.

Absolutely.

[genetic]

The US military claims it was an accident...

:rolleyes:

So what if the Taliban said flying two planes into the WTC was an accident?

[Garyvdh]

:rolleyes:

So what if the Taliban said flying two planes into the WTC was an accident?

They would be too late, since Al Qaeda already claimed responsibility for that. :rolleyes:

[Mineer]

They would be too late, since Al Qaeda already claimed responsibility for that. :rolleyes:

source ? as far as I know Osama bin Laden vehemently denied being the architect of the 911
/ p.s. not wanting to start a 911 debate,

[Apache]

source ? as far as I know Osama bin Laden vehemently denied being the architect of the 911
/ p.s. not wanting to start a 911 debate,

Sounds interesting, can you send me a link?

[Tun@]

source ? as far as I know Osama bin Laden vehemently denied being the architect of the 911
/ p.s. not wanting to start a 911 debate,

Yes denied it but later there was a "video tape" that appeared that they used to say he was involved.
That tape he is "E"

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=13477&d=1330330127

[Tun@]

Sounds interesting, can you send me a link?

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

[Garyvdh]

source ? as far as I know Osama bin Laden vehemently denied being the architect of the 911
/ p.s. not wanting to start a 911 debate,

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-10/30/content_387058.htm
http://byeways.net/webreadings/readingcontent/1WORLD_web/163.htm

[Alan]

Hmm, let me check on the size of the apology for disrespecting and blowing up Buddhist holy places.... gosh, none at all, not even a tiny one.

I wonder how many mass protests there were after Taliban attacks that deliberately target against civilians by these people :rolleyes:

If they want NATO out then good take on the Taliban themselves and take responsibility for their own country


Which does not make the slaughter of their children by an invading army acceptable.

*edit*

In any event, the article is not defending their behaviour, just pointing out the usual very bad journalism about the situation.

I thought you were in favour of the "invasion" :confused:

[copacetic]

I thought you were in favour of the "invasion" :confused:

Regardless of my view, from the perspective many of those in the country, it is an invasion by a foreign army, that's killing their kids.

That was the point, that the people aren't freaking out as much about the Qurans as they are about the murders of their children and families.

Dishonest journalism, par for the course.

[Tun@]

Dishonest journalism, par for the course.

Most decent take i've read on Afghanistan was this - which more or less spells out their wasting their time.
http://armedforcesjournal.com/2012/02/8904030

[Alan]

Regardless of my view, from the perspective many of those in the country, it is an invasion by a foreign army, that's killing their kids.

That was the point, that the people aren't freaking out as much about the Qurans as they are about the murders of their children and families.

Dishonest journalism, par for the course.

Strange then that Taliban attacks that kill their kids don't seem to spark similar mass protests :erm:

[copacetic]

Strange then that Taliban attacks that kill their kids don't seem to spark similar mass protests :erm:

People who protest the Taliban get targeted by the Taliban, which is why parts of the population support them, I'd imagine.

[killadoob]

Strange then that Taliban attacks that kill their kids don't seem to spark similar mass protests :erm:

Yea but the US was suppose to stop it but all they have managed to do is join the taliban in killing kids. So now they two forces killing their families.

Tough situation.

[sparticus]

There is way to many pages to read through but I do want to just add this. It is true that in many instances Muslims need to lighten up , the Head covering thing at airports is a good example. Having said that , the Koran is very sacred to us Muslims and I really dont understand why people cannot except and respect that.

I am not asking anyone to convert to the Islam or hold my religion above theirs , I am merely asking to show respect to my religion as I would to yours. As a muslim I will never burn a Bible or support the burning of the Bible or any other religious material. Many reckon we should lighten up and again in many instances we really should but its not negotiable to a muslim to destroy something that represent so much for us. I ask just that people try and understand that.

[TheHiveMind]

There is way to many pages to read through but I do want to just add this. It is true that in many instances Muslims need to lighten up , the Head covering thing at airports is a good example. Having said that , the Koran is very sacred to us Muslims and I really dont understand why people cannot except and respect that.

I am not asking anyone to convert to the Islam or hold my religion above theirs , I am merely asking to show respect to my religion as I would to yours. As a muslim I will never burn a Bible or support the burning of the Bible or any other religious material. Many reckon we should lighten up and again in many instances we really should but its not negotiable to a muslim to destroy something that represent so much for us. I ask just that people try and understand that.

In most places in the world, nationality is seen as more relevant than religion. Muslims burn our flags. Muslims burn our national symbols. Muslims chant death to our nations. Muslims attack our embasies. They don't attack religion because they don't want their religion to be attacked, it's not for our benefit, it's for their benefit.

[zahpat]

There is way to many pages to read through but I do want to just add this. It is true that in many instances Muslims need to lighten up , the Head covering thing at airports is a good example. Having said that , the Koran is very sacred to us Muslims and I really dont understand why people cannot except and respect that.

I am not asking anyone to convert to the Islam or hold my religion above theirs , I am merely asking to show respect to my religion as I would to yours. As a muslim I will never burn a Bible or support the burning of the Bible or any other religious material. Many reckon we should lighten up and again in many instances we really should but its not negotiable to a muslim to destroy something that represent so much for us. I ask just that people try and understand that.

+1:cool:

[sparticus]

In most places in the world, nationality is seen as more relevant than religion. Muslims burn our flags. Muslims burn our national symbols. Muslims chant death to our nations. Muslims attack our embasies. They don't attack religion because they don't want their religion to be attacked, it's not for our benefit, it's for their benefit.

So then why not target those people and not the religion ? Also ask the question why they would target these national symbols or burn these flags ? I might not always agree with the actions but I always ask myself what would I do in the same circumstances ? What would I do if I wake up one morning and find my entire family wiped out by a bomb because the US said my country has weapons of mass destruction which was proved incorrect ! What did my 3 year old do to deserve this ? Or my wife and brother etc.

The innocent man knows little of the politics , all he knows is that he woke up in a nightmare of a world.