Help With Music Production

[Pooky]

So I've been playing with various production programs for quite a while now. I know the basics eg. how to use the instruments to make a sort of tune.

What I don't know is all the various effects; sidechaining, compression, busing, filters, attack, decay, sends, returns, automation and how to apply this to my music in order for it to sound good and not just like some person fiddling around in fruity loops.

Does anyone know of a simple to understand resource/s where I can gain this info?

[Randux]

Playing around with the DAW & youtube

[tsume]

Fruity loops usually comes with a bunch of demos. Open those up and loop the song while you note the changes. Play around with settings, you might want to solo out the instrument while doing adjustment.

I never had youtube when I started so those where my options...hell I haven't even read the pdf manual as of yet.

I can't really explain those said terms in English. Like if I was going to talk about compression, I would state I usually most on drums. As my drum samples are usually "cold" or "distant" and I use a compressor to liven them up.

[Pooky]

Fruity loops usually comes with a bunch of demos. Open those up and loop the song while you note the changes. Play around with settings, you might want to solo out the instrument while doing adjustment.

I never had youtube when I started so those where my options...hell I haven't even read the pdf manual as of yet.

I can't really explain those said terms in English. Like if I was going to talk about compression, I would state I usually most on drums. As my drum samples are usually "cold" or "distant" and I use a compressor to liven them up.

I'm using Ableton, and recently been playing around with Logic.

[tsume]

I'm using Ableton, and recently been playing around with Logic.

Ah, Ableton is much better in my opinion. Unfortunately I dont have Ableton installed anymore on machine so I can't give you specific tips on it.

[syrrano]

There are lots of tutorials available on the intertubes. I learned to use Cubase with video tutorials which helped a LOT!

You can also pick up a lot of tips from forums like KVR

It will take quite a lot of time and practice to master your DAW and learn all the tricks you need to put a professional sounding track together

I've been using Cubase for about 5 years now and I still haven't managed to get that full, polished trance sound that I'm looking for!

This is one of my older tracks that I'm busy reworking to try and get it sounding decent

http://soundcloud.com/syrrano/syrrano-two-oceans-2012-test

[Pooky]

There are lots of tutorials available on the intertubes. I learned to use Cubase with video tutorials which helped a LOT!

You can also pick up a lot of tips from forums like KVR

It will take quite a lot of time and practice to master your DAW and learn all the tricks you need to put a professional sounding track together

I've been using Cubase for about 5 years now and I still haven't managed to get that full, polished trance sound that I'm looking for!

This is one of my older tracks that I'm busy reworking to try and get it sounding decent

http://soundcloud.com/syrrano/syrrano-two-oceans-2012-test

But that's so good!

[copacetic]

Pooky, don't try learn it all in one go, that will just do your head in.

For electronic production, I can't recommend this enough:

http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Music-Manual-Second-Techniques/dp/0240521072

http://www.lybrary.com/images/0080926967.jpg

Also, a bit hard to understand, but absolutely filled with gems of info:

ANDI VAX "MIXING SECRETS" (http://www.andivax.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59:andi-vax-qmixing-secretsq&catid=34:news&Itemid=1)

Don't get sucked into plugin madness either, pick the basic tools you need, and concentrate on learning those. It's easy to get overwhelmed, so just choose a handful to master first.

Pick a DAW and stick to it.

Off the top of my head...

Good luck buddy.

[copacetic]

Pooky, if you use a compressor on drums, would you use a fast attack or a slower attack?

Why?

[syrrano]

Thanks! But listen to a track from Above and Beyond for example and hear just how full and huge it sounds. There some serious production voodoo going on there that I wish I knew how to do

It may be worth investing in a proper study course if you're serious about it.
I do this as a hobby but I'm also considering going on a course to learn more about mixing and sound processing

[satanboy]

So I've been playing with various production programs for quite a while now. I know the basics eg. how to use the instruments to make a sort of tune.

What I don't know is all the various effects; sidechaining, compression, busing, filters, attack, decay, sends, returns, automation and how to apply this to my music in order for it to sound good and not just like some person fiddling around in fruity loops.

Does anyone know of a simple to understand resource/s where I can gain this info?

At my website.

[Pooky]

Pooky, if you use a compressor on drums, would you use a fast attack or a slower attack?

Why?

I think a fast attack because you need a punchy sound?

[copacetic]

I think a fast attack because you need a punchy sound?

Nope. Drums are 'punchy' mostly due to the transients, which are right at the beginning of the hit. If you compress those transients, you diminish the impact of the sound!

So, with drums you want to make sure your attack is long enough to let the transients through, or alternatively, mix together a compressed as hell drum mix, with an uncompressed mix - The uncompressed mix makes sure your transient material is there.

Compression took me years to wrap my head around, and I'm still a super noob. :o

*edit*

As to release settings with electronic music, you want to time the release with the music's flow and rhythm. Side-chain compression is also going to be your best friend, I'm sure there will be plenty of Youtube tuts on how to do it and why in various DAWs.

[syrrano]

And that's where transient shapers come into play. They can give your snares a really punchy snap too

[copacetic]

*edit*

Moved post. (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/286387-Musician-s-thread?p=7962052&viewfull=1#post7962052)

[Dixie]

This is one of my older tracks that I'm busy reworking to try and get it sounding decent

So. Mission accomplished then :)
It sounds awesome over my set-up.

(Lol, I'm still using Modplug Tracker V1.1.6 02024 for tracking :o)

[Dixie]

Thank you Copa :)

[copacetic]

So. Mission accomplished then :)
It sounds awesome over my set-up.

(Lol, I'm still using Modplug Tracker V1.1.6 02024 for tracking :o)

I've come to the conclusion that trackers are for geniuses.


Thank you Copa :)

Pleasure, hope there's something interesting in there.

[copacetic]

@ syrrano, that track of yours sounds great.

[syrrano]

So. Mission accomplished then :)
It sounds awesome over my set-up.

(Lol, I'm still using Modplug Tracker V1.1.6 02024 for tracking :o)

I started on Fasttracker back in the day and then moved on to Modplug

Had lots of fun with it and made some cool tunes

[syrrano]

@ syrrano, that track of yours sounds great.

Thanks a lot!

I've got most of it sorted out I think. Just need to improve the percussion a bit and adjust some of the levels

[Pooky]

copa, I think that the guitar track is really nice; did you record live guitar for that?

[copacetic]

copa, I think that the guitar track is really nice; did you record live guitar for that?

As opposed to what?

[Pooky]

As opposed to what?

A VST...

[copacetic]

A VST...

Oh right, do you mean the guitar tone?

That's an amp sim, and modeled cab responses, but I am obviously playing the guitar.

[Pooky]

Oh right, do you mean the guitar tone?

That's an amp sim, and modeled cab responses, but I am obviously playing the guitar.

Oh okay, so the guitar sound is basically natural?

[copacetic]

Oh okay, so the guitar sound is basically natural?

Well, going into the computer clean, then through this guy's plugins:

http://lepouplugins.blogspot.com/

[syrrano]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20486925/44%20working.mp3



Do like! :love:

[Pooky]

Here is a song I made a while ago, so you can get an idea of where I am: (I was quite proud of it)

http://soundcloud.com/pooky/touch-me-on-my-studio

[tsume]

Here is a song I made a while ago, so you can get an idea of where I am: (I was quite proud of it)

http://soundcloud.com/pooky/touch-me-on-my-studio

Oh my...I just had to chuckle cause it sounded like samples straight from a casio keyboard

[Pooky]

Oh my...I just had to chuckle cause it sounded like samples straight from a casio keyboard

Yeh so what must I do to improve?

[copacetic]

Yeh so what must I do to improve?

How about this? You listen critically to your track, and ask how to improve specific things.

Listening to it, I can't offer you a solution to the track's problems, as I'm not at a point where I can critique and fix other people's music, I struggle enough with my own FFS. :D

There's very little bass, and the kick is weak, two major issues with this type of music, obviously. Easiest way to begin fixing this is use the right samples/synths to begin with.

Did you compress the kick? Fast attack?

Happy to help as much as I can, but I'm no expert.

[Pooky]

Well I don't really want to work on that track anymore.

The thing I most need to know is how to make a track sound like it isn't just samples layered over each other; give it some integration.

[syrrano]

The kick drum is a good place to start

Most sampled kicks will sound quite feeble on their own as you can hear in this clip
http://www.syrrano.com/unprocessed_kick.mp3

A good way to build a nice kick is to use a plugin like ISM Bazzism which creates a kick using a sine wave
Use an EQ to roll off frequencies from around 200Hz upwards and around 80Hz downwards
This will give you a nice solid thump to base your kick on. Add some compression and a little transient boosting

Next you can mute the first kick and add a sampled kick then use an EQ to roll off all frequencies above 80Hz and below 40Hz
This will give you some low end sub bass. Try different kick samples till you find one that gives you a nice low end
Add some compression to it

Repeat this with another sampled kick but this time roll of the frequencies above and below 400Hz and add some transient boosting to this one too

Your kick should be quite solid by now. You can also layer a closed hat at low volume over it to give it some high end presence

Here is a layered kick that has been made with this method
http://www.syrrano.com/layered_kick.mp3

[copacetic]

Well I don't really want to work on that track anymore.

The thing I most need to know is how to make a track sound like it isn't just samples layered over each other; give it some integration.

There's no simple answer to this.

That book, and that tutorial video I linked to earlier - If you read the book and watch the video, you will be ten-fold further than you are now.

Expecting a blanket answer to such a huge request is simply impossible.

[syrrano]

To fatten up your basslines you can use a plugin like PSP Vintage Warmer to add saturation

Here is a clip without saturation
http://www.syrrano.com/unprocessed_bass.mp3

And here is one with saturation
http://www.syrrano.com/processed_bass.mp3

You can also make your bass sound fuller by widening the higher frequencies
Create 2 copies of your bass track
Apply an EQ to the main copy and roll off frequencies above 1000Hz or so
Apply EQ's to the two copies but roll of all frequencies under 1000Hz on these two
Now pan one of these copies hard left and the other one hard right
Apply a small but varied sample delay to each copy using a plugin like Voxengo Sound Delay
You will hear the sound appear to widen
http://www.syrrano.com/widened_bass.mp3

The widened bass may sound a bit weaker on its own, but it fits very well into the mix

[Pooky]

Thanks syrrano this info is awesome.

[DJ...]

When I have some spare time I'll download your tracks and give them a critique. Not going to be today though...

[copacetic]

Pooky, download these:

http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/downloads/

Read the manuals while trying to use them.

You will learn a great deal.

[BlackMamba]

www.soundcloud.com/elliotn

couple of songs I made with flstudio, I am not perfect but very good at it

check a video I posted in YouTube www.YouTube.com/mrngwaba

[BlackMamba]

www.YouTube.com/mrngwamba

[copacetic]

www.soundcloud.com/elliotn

couple of songs I made with flstudio, I am not perfect but very good at it

check a video I posted in YouTube www.YouTube.com/mrngwaba

None of those links lead to anything. :confused:

[syrrano]

For short plucked sounds you can use delay, small amounts of reverb and widening to spread it around and create a fuller sound

Here is a clip without any fx
http://www.syrrano.com/unprocessed_pluck.mp3

And with fx
http://www.syrrano.com/processed_pluck.mp3


You can use a sidechain compressor to add some movement to pads and strings

Here is a pad before sidechaining
http://www.syrrano.com/pads.mp3

And after
http://www.syrrano.com/sidechained_pads.mp3

I think I heard some sidechaining in your track though so you probably know how to do that already

And here's a clip with some more instruments layered and the bassline introduced
http://www.syrrano.com/full1.mp3