Tutu lashes out at white South Africans in TRC debate

[Angelo]

Tutu lashes out at white South Africans in TRC debate (http://www.news24.com/City_Press/News/0,,186-187_1921199,00.html)

It seems reality has finally bitten Mr. "Rainbow Nation", he was part of a minority of Black South Africans who supported the TRC process but now he can see it did very little to change white attitudes because Whites remain aloof despite the the compromises made by the long-suffering Black population, the majority of whom continue to live in absolute squalor. I mean here we have a country that has a glaring gulf of wealth between Whites (minority) and Blacks (overwhelming majority) yet most whites throw their toys out of the cot when they hear the slightest hint of moves to address this economic imbalance that was deliberately created by white rule. Welcome back to the harsh reality Archbishop.

[neio]

This is all fine and well but I did not dictate the political environment of apartheid, I was born into it, if anybody should appologise it's the political leaders of those days, but they would argue, what should they apoligise for?, they were stopping the spread of communism.

[Angelo]

This is all fine and well but I did not dictate the political environment of apartheid, I was born into it, if anybody should appologise it's the political leaders of those days, but they would argue, what should they apoligise for?, they were stopping the spread of communism.
What did denying people equal education opportunites, removing them from their land etc. have to do with Communism?

[kilo39]

Whites remain aloof despite the the compromises made by the long-suffering Black population, the majority of whom continue to live in absolute squalor. I mean here we have a country that has a glaring gulf of wealth between Whites (minority) and Blacks (overwhelming majority) yet most whites throw their toys out of the cot when they hear the slightest hint of moves to address this economic imbalance that was deliberately created by white rule So - why don't our black brethren create jobs - there are certainly enough of them? Living in absolute squalor? Surely this should be laid directly at the feet of the people most guilty - the government? They drive fancy cars, live in big houses, have fat salaries - and don't give a damn for the people - do they even see them? To all intents they would rather 'the people' all died. This government doesn't give a damn for its people - little government housing, little services - zero compassion or care. The whiteys in large part still continue to do more for this country than our black brethren - who - it seems their only concern is their fatness and the quality of their suits.

[bwana]

Course you wouldn't want to lay any of the blame on goverment :rolleyes:

The sooner South Africans stop emphasising race the sooner it will cease being a problem.

[Nod]

Blaming someone/something is not doing anything to solve the problem. A lesson our goverment still have to learn.

[Turtle]

remain aloof despite the the compromises made by the long-suffering Black population, the majority of whom continue to live in absolute squalor.
Yes but the reason for this isn't the whities, it's the fact that our government is too corrupt and incompetent to provide even basic services let alone proper skills and education to the black population. It's black not white municipal mayors driving around in luxury vehicles and living in mansions while their people are stuck with the bucket system and roads with huge potholes and no education and a rotten corrupt police force that allows crime to run out of control. People need basics like infrastructure and safety covered before economic upliftment can occur, and whites aren't preventing this from happening in spite of the racist rhetoric suggesting otherwise amongst SAn political discourse. I'm not being racist I'm just stating facts, if this seems biased then sorry it's because the facts are biased.

[VJB 449]

Yep it is time that Tutu & Co. start addressing the real problem.

He also needs to explain to us "whites" why we are so damn lucky. South Africa is damn lucky and that includes all its citizens, blue, pink and green.

[kilo39]

Well said Turtle.

[Nod]

"You would have expected people (victims) to demand a double-storey house with a swimming pool and a BMW. But people were humble."

I want a double storey house and swimming aswell please.

[ajak]

I love being rich and white, and I don’t throw toys out of the cot, I throw the parasites out. The majority voted for this bloody gvt, so if they don’t have house and and and and what the hell not, it I DON’T CARE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME.:)

[killadoob]

vjb do you wanna know why i feel so lucky dude

i got a decent job earn decent money

we could have ended up like zimbabwe

AND FOR THAT I FEEL WE ARE VERY LUCKY

[Chris]

Killadoob: Why you even comparing us to Zim. They are the lowest common denominator in terms of how to run a country. Even if we become close to Zim, we'll be screwed.

That's why so many people don't want SA to end up like Zimbabwe. It's the worst of the worst yet I'm afraid it's heading that way.

[louisp]

I alsosay, "stop hammering on race".

I think alot of people are actually very ready to let go of the past, and not see color. But if government keeps on hammering on black are in, white is out. Then what do they expect? It's very simple. If you keep on telling me I'm wrong and bad and not good, and should apologise etc. what kind of reaction do you expect?

Once again, wake up and smell the coffee (Tm)

[Angelo]

I alsosay, "stop hammering on race".

I think alot of people are actually very ready to let go of the past, and not see color. But if government keeps on hammering on black are in, white is out. Then what do they expect? It's very simple. If you keep on telling me I'm wrong and bad and not good, and should apologise etc. what kind of reaction do you expect?

Once again, wake up and smell the coffee (Tm)
If you are living is SA nobody has to "hammer" race on you, the racial disparities are a reality and won't go away because the well-off race feel irritated when they are mentioned

[stoke]

White south africans do not exist in a racial free country like the new rainbow nation Tutu.

Where the fruck have you been Tutu ?
Get your head out of your arse and look around you ... point at the criminals while you are driven around in your luxury vehicle...

/me hates polititions pretending to be religious leaders.

[Highflyer_GP]

Angelo I have a suggestion for you mate :) Since you feel that everybody else except government is to blame, why don't you get out there and try to make a difference to all these people living in squalor. If you voted for the current government, and if they are not doing their jobs, then don't blame those who didn't vote for them. Take it up with the government you voted for, and if they don't heed your calls then take it into your own hands and try to change the situation. Complaining about who is to blame isn't going to solve anything, in fact it's only going to add to the tension and serve to divide rather than unite. Just my personal suggestion, use it don't use it ;)

PS: I'm not white before the flame wars start, just saying it the way I see it from a neutral point of view

[ajak]

If you are living is SA nobody has to "hammer" race on you, the racial disparities are a reality and won't go away because the well-off race feel irritated when they are mentioned


O but I LOVE IT, driving around in my s8 Audi, the ring on my left ring finger has 4 .8ct diamonds and my Rolex president makes me feel good. So what the hell if some one mentions me. I don’t get irritated ,on the contrary it makes me feel good(bloody primitives) I am a product of the new gvt, they don’t like my type/race, they keep telling me how big a piece of ***** I am, SO I HAVE BECOME WHAT THEY WRONLY ACCUSED ME OFF.

[stoke]

Good point AJAK.

[Angellus]

O but I LOVE IT, driving around in my s8 Audi, the ring on my left ring finger has 4 .8ct diamonds and my Rolex president makes me feel good. So what the hell if some one mentions me. I don’t get irritated ,on the contrary it makes me feel good(bloody primitives) I am a product of the new gvt, they don’t like my type/race, they keep telling me how big a piece of ***** I am, SO I HAVE BECOME WHAT THEY WRONLY ACCUSED ME OFF.

ROFL yeah cruising in the S8 is awesome, took our for a spin today :)

I think its time for me to start ignoring these threads, they only get me irritated

[Rkootknir]

Angelo I have a suggestion for you mate :) Since you feel that everybody else except government is to blame, why don't you get out there and try to make a difference to all these people living in squalor. If you voted for the current government, and if they are not doing their jobs, then don't blame those who didn't vote for them. Take it up with the government you voted for, and if they don't heed your calls then take it into your own hands and try to change the situation. Complaining about who is to blame isn't going to solve anything, in fact it's only going to add to the tension and serve to divide rather than unite. Just my personal suggestion, use it don't use it ;)

Just my view: It doesn't matter who you voted for. The DA, NNP, VF+, ACDP, SACP, ID and all the others are just as much interested in furthering their own personal agendas as are the ANC. There's no point in trying to make the argument that: "you voted for it, therefore it's your problem". It doesn't matter who you voted for, it will still be some idiot trying to tell you how to live your life. I mean, really, I don't give a flying kangaroo about some pinheaded politician's views (any politician), and he surely doesn't care about mine or your's.

[Highflyer_GP]

Just my view: It doesn't matter who you voted for. The DA, NNP, VF+, ACDP, SACP, ID and all the others are just as much interested in furthering their own personal agendas as are the ANC. Theres no point in trying to make the argument that: "you voted for it, therefor it's your problem". It doesn't matter who you voted for, it will still be some idiot trying to tell you how to live your life. I mean, really, I don't give a flying kangaroo about some pinheaded politician's views (any politician), and he surely doesn't care about mine or your's.


Exactly. Where there's power there will always be greed and corruption. So why listen to what a corrupt politician has to say, fall for their lies and blame people due to governments inability to do their jobs? But if you voted for these idiots actually thinking that they'll be able to make a real difference in your life, surely you deserve the consequences for being so naive.

[ajak]

ROFL yeah cruising in the S8 is awesome, took our for a spin today :)

I think its time for me to start ignoring these threads, they only get me irritated
Most of the time i want to "irrigate"( want to piss in my pants) when i read some of the crap the politicians and their ilk say.:D :D

[DigitalSoldier]

I alsosay, "stop hammering on race".

I think alot of people are actually very ready to let go of the past, and not see color. But if government keeps on hammering on black are in, white is out. Then what do they expect? It's very simple. If you keep on telling me I'm wrong and bad and not good, and should apologise etc. what kind of reaction do you expect?

Once again, wake up and smell the coffee (Tm)

Thats why Mandela should have stayed president then we would have been far better of imo.

[kilo39]

With a chasm after Mandela? Much better Mbeki - but maybe chasm anyway.

[ajak]

Just a thought did Zuma use (the Umkhonto We Sizewe) or Die pap lepel van poffadder,was it a flip flop, or a slam dunk.:D :D

SORRY/BACK TO SERAAAIS...NIS:)

[ajak]

B@bbej@@n klim die berg trala trala om die boere tevererg hoera vir die jolly b@bbej@@n,moennie huil nie moennie treur nie want die jolly b@bbej@@n kom weer.Me think very apt...he was gone AND NOW HE IS BACK:D :D

[Angelo]

Angelo I have a suggestion for you mate :) Since you feel that everybody else except government is to blame, why don't you get out there and try to make a difference to all these people living in squalor. If you voted for the current government, and if they are not doing their jobs, then don't blame those who didn't vote for them. Take it up with the government you voted for, and if they don't heed your calls then take it into your own hands and try to change the situation. Complaining about who is to blame isn't going to solve anything, in fact it's only going to add to the tension and serve to divide rather than unite. Just my personal suggestion, use it don't use it ;)

PS: I'm not white before the flame wars start, just saying it the way I see it from a neutral point of view
The Government is already doing a lot to change the anomalies created by decades of white rule it's just that people like you choose to ignore the good and focus on the bad, probably because you don't give a damn if the lives of the oppressed masses improve or not, you probably fantasise about the "good old days" of apartheid when the minority were getting away with murder (to an extent they still do.)

[louisp]

Now the mayority gets away with murder, in fact its seen as the norm. From my point of view, there are really very few things that have improved in the 10+ years of ANC rule.

Just imagine if you had all the power in the country, so much money and resources. What can u accomplish in 10 years?

I wouldn't know about the "good old days" as I was a minor / not born yet. I refuse to associate myself with people that endorse lazyness, corruption, murder and a general disregard for human rights. That is what the ANC represents.

[Angelo]

Now the mayority gets away with murder, in fact its seen as the norm. From my point of view, there are really very few things that have improved in the 10+ years of ANC rule.

Just imagine if you had all the power in the country, so much money and resources. What can u accomplish in 10 years?

I wouldn't know about the "good old days" as I was a minor / not born yet. I refuse to associate myself with people that endorse lazyness, corruption, murder and a general disregard for human rights. That is what the ANC represents.
You've just summed up the Apartheid government.

[tibby.dude]

What can u accomplish in 10 years?

More was achieved in these short 10 years (so what is the prime lending rate and growth rate of our economy again hey Louisp) under this ANC govt than the decades of utter screwups we had before.

A pity we did not have them sooner in power :).

[Angelo]

More was achieved in these short 10 years (so what is the prime lending rate and growth rate of our economy again hey Louisp) under this ANC govt than the decades of utter screwups we had before.

A pity we did not have them sooner in power :).
Absolutely, I can just see the kind of progress this beatiful country of ours can make if this government can be kept in power for as long as the screwups government.

[tibby.dude]

I think its time for me to start ignoring these threads, they only get me irritated

We are going to have these sort of arguments on this forum until we are all dead mate ... it is simply the nature of the beast considering the fundamental changes occuring and social transformation in our society.

It is all rather unsettling for some but it is good that we discuss it.

[DigitalSoldier]

lol @angelo when will u stop blaming the minority ?

Last there was a break in at my sisters agents house and guess what the police didnt come out cos her agent got dogs

[MaD]

Absolutely, I can just see the kind of progress this beatiful country of ours can make if this government can be kept in power for as long as the screwups government.I beg to differ.

[DigitalSoldier]

Sorry I forgot everything is the minority governments fault even now in 2006 12 years later if theres a pothole at an airport landingstrip its the minoritys fault.

But Angelo why after 12 years yes its been 12 years already are normal everyday things still being blamed on apartheid/the minority we have a sh@# telecoms sectors and its being blamed on apartheid there are roads now that needs to be fixed that was fixed in apartheid time but now in 2006 its blamed on apartheid sipho down the street got aids a while ago yes yes you are correct angelo we blame it on apartheid.

So tell me why are crime still at such a high rate and please dont give me a lame excuse like the rate of crime is coming down then Ill tell you thats BS isnt a country's government first rule to look out for the safety of its people ?
Even if we all didnt vote for the current government they still have to look out for our safety as we are part of this country

[DigitalSoldier]

Absolutely, I can just see the kind of progress this beatiful country of ours can make if this government can be kept in power for as long as the screwups government.

Yes you can call the white people screwups dont worry we wont call you a racist but if you are black and I call you an idiot Im a racist. But dont worry I wont march to the streets crying racist :D

[icyrus]

It seems reality has finally bitten Mr. "Rainbow Nation", he was part of a minority of Black South Africans who supported the TRC process but now he can see it did very little to change white attitudes because Whites remain aloof despite the the compromises made by the long-suffering Black population, the majority of whom continue to live in absolute squalor. I mean here we have a country that has a glaring gulf of wealth between Whites (minority) and Blacks (overwhelming majority) yet most whites throw their toys out of the cot when they hear the slightest hint of moves to address this economic imbalance that was deliberately created by white rule. Welcome back to the harsh reality Archbishop.

I don't understand this reasoning. Are you saying that in order to create a country where all races are equal we must make some races more equal than others?

The question you have to seriously ask yourself is: is our current government really interested in creating a free and equal country for all races or are they just interested in self enrichment?

[bwana]

Absolutely, I can just see the kind of progress this beatiful country of ours can make if this government can be kept in power for as long as the screwups government.Just what the country needs - a single party democracy. :rolleyes: At this rate SA is a decade behind the rest of sub-saharan africa. It wont take much for the foreign investment to leave these shores.

[Angelo]

lol @angelo when will u stop blaming the minority ?

Last there was a break in at my sisters agents house and guess what the police didnt come out cos her agent got dogs
I ain't blaming the minority, only stating that widespread damage that we still live with was created by the previous regime and that we should stand together in trying to rebuild the country, a difficult task that will take a long time. If anything I'm lambasting the denial of the above facts.

[Clipse]

In todays SA, if you stand to close together you either get raped, killed or beaten to a pulp.

So no, its everyman for himself in the new South-Africa. Viva Great changes, Viva total ballsup.

[Gothan]

Its the strangest thing, whites are always getting blamed, either they are not doing enough, or just doing enough for themselves, or they are too rich, just add to the list.

Yet in this country, its not only whites that get rich. The indian culture in south africa is booming, and always have been booming. Strange that they are not getting blamed.

I think we are creating a majority of beggars and lazy @sses. They government is handing them everything on a plate, and now that they will have to start working, now its the whites fault.

I think I'm going back to france where my great great great great grandfather came from, and am going to claim back some land somewhere that was taken from me due to religious prosecution. And if they laugh at me, I will beat my fist and blame the whites somewhere

[DigitalSoldier]

@Angelo my point im trying to make we have had 12 years of anc we havent seen any major changes for the good of the country u can say we have the best economic growth ever blah blah blah.

But in most of those 12 years a lot could have been done for every1 look at the majority the black people still dying from aids whose fault is it that now they are not getting proper medical attention the white government RIGHT ?

Even some1 like robert mugabe could have destroyed this country in 12 years and then you can get a great leader than could have built up this country in 12 years but what did the anc do they helped a minority of black people get rich and now they just blame everything on apartheid

[Angelo]

So tell me why are crime still at such a high rate and please dont give me a lame excuse like the rate of crime is coming down then Ill tell you thats BS isnt a country's government first rule to look out for the safety of its people ?
Even if we all didnt vote for the current government they still have to look out for our safety as we are part of this country
It might be or might not be BS that the crime rate is coming down, so you wanna know why crime is high? It's no rocket science.........really. Just think back to the days, look at the educational and job opportunities that were denied to the majority and reserved for the few, look at the illegal land grabs, the substandard facilities made for blacks, the list goes on. Now that regime didn't realise that by doing all those things they were creating a poverty problem, one that would affect not just the oppressed masses but everybody in the country, that there can be no peace without equal rights and justice. Now the current leadership has inherited this mess and it will require effort not only from Govt but from all stakeholders over a number of years to reverse that institutionalised marginalisation that has birthed the crime problem.

[bwana]

Now the current leadership has inherited this mess and it will require effort not only from Govt but from all stakeholders over a number of years to reverse that institutionalised marginalisation that has birthed the crime problem.Ok - how many more years?

Its often been said that if you want to move on it helps to be looking forward. Leave history to the historians.

[Gothan]

It might be or might not be BS that the crime rate is coming down, so you wanna know why crime is high? It's no rocket science.........really. Just think back to the days, look at the educational and job opportunities that were denied to the majority and reserved for the few, look at the illegal land grabs, the substandard facilities made for blacks, the list goes on. Now that regime didn't realise that by doing all those things they were creating a poverty problem, one that would affect not just the oppressed masses but everybody in the country, that there can be no peace without equal rights and justice. Now the current leadership has inherited this mess and it will require effort not only from Govt but from all stakeholders over a number of years to reverse that institutionalised marginalisation that has birthed the crime problem.

Yes listen to what Angelo says, next time, there is a farm massacre, please, dont put up a struggle, its your right to get robbed and murdered, you are not a victim, but a statistic for a beter country.

Next time you get hijacked, dont think of it as a crime, but as correcting the wrongs of the past.

When someone close to you gets raped.....no its not a crime, its allowing access for people who was previously disadvantaged.

[sparklehorse]

I ain't blaming the minority, only stating that widespread damage that we still live with was created by the previous regime and that we should stand together in trying to rebuild the country, a difficult task that will take a long time. If anything I'm lambasting the denial of the above facts.
I agree with you. The previous regime is to blame for a lot of damage. By keeping back the majority of South Africans, it created more problems for future generations of all colors/shapes sizes. Now we have a situation where the country consists of a small group of people that can afford a bit of luxury, and a bigger group that barely can afford a proper house. But more importantly, you have a small group of people that had the benefits of a proper education for 3 or more generations and a bigger group that did not.

You can't just fix these problems in 12 years. Even if you give everyone a house and enough money for a lifetime.

Is it fair for people that did not benefit from apartheid laws to blame people that benefited from apartheid laws, even though they themselves did nothing wrong?

[sparklehorse]

Yes listen to what Angelo says, next time, there is a farm massacre, please, dont put up a struggle, its your right to get robbed and murdered, you are not a victim, but a statistic for a beter country.

Next time you get hijacked, dont think of it as a crime, but as correcting the wrongs of the past.

When someone close to you gets raped.....no its not a crime, its allowing access for people who was previously disadvantaged.You probably misread his posts - I don't remember him saying anything of the sort.

[craigsa]

Yes and the anc are so honest and they never steal or plunder ?? Wake up Angelo. You can blame the nats for only so long. 10 yrs and still they blame appartheid. The other day some moron was on the radio and blamed appartheid for the piracy issue regarding cd's of SA artists. Oh my god were we laughing. Even the radio show host thought he was mad.

[icyrus]

It might be or might not be BS that the crime rate is coming down, so you wanna know why crime is high? It's no rocket science.........really. Just think back to the days, look at the educational and job opportunities that were denied to the majority and reserved for the few, look at the illegal land grabs, the substandard facilities made for blacks, the list goes on. Now that regime didn't realise that by doing all those things they were creating a poverty problem, one that would affect not just the oppressed masses but everybody in the country, that there can be no peace without equal rights and justice. Now the current leadership has inherited this mess and it will require effort not only from Govt but from all stakeholders over a number of years to reverse that institutionalised marginalisation that has birthed the crime problem.

Again I can't understand your reasoning here. Sure you could say that the lack of education and widespread poverty leads many people to crime. But if you are poor and hungry and need money or food would you not steal something to sell? How does that account for the rampent murder and rape rates in South Africa? Who's fault is that?

Is lack of education and poverty the cause of raping a 6 month old baby?

How does murder and rape help a poor, uneducated person feed his family?

[Gothan]

You probably misread his posts - I don't remember him saying anything of the sort.

"so you wanna know why crime is high? It's no rocket science.........really. Just think back to the days, look at the educational and job opportunities that were denied to the majority and reserved for the few, look at the illegal land grabs, the substandard facilities made for blacks, the list goes on. Now that regime didn't realise that by doing all those things they were creating a poverty problem, one that would affect not just the oppressed masses but everybody in the country, that there can be no peace without equal rights and justice"

Think the refresh on your screen might have jumped that paragraph of his post.

I'm sorry, but in my book...rape is a hate crime (and that is topping our list of crime stats). Raping someone is not an act of equal rights, its an act of hatred.

I'm sorry, but just accepting crime and dealing with it because of apartheid. BS go back to sniffing the printer toner, your going cold turkey

[sparklehorse]

Of course all crime is not because of the past. And I agree with you that all problems can not simply be blamed on apartheid. But you can not deny that apartheid has and for a long time will have a major impact on crime today.

If not for socioeconomic problems, what do you think is the major cause of crime in South Africa today?

[Angelo]

Ok - how many more years?

Its often been said that if you want to move on it helps to be looking forward. Leave history to the historians.
It has also been said that "A country without a memory is a country of madmen"

[Gothan]

"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course all crime is not because of the past. And I agree with you that all problems can not simply be blamed on apartheid. But you can not deny that apartheid has and for a long time will have a major impact on crime today.

If not for socioeconomic problems, what do you think is the major cause of crime in South Africa today?"

pure hatred and vindictiveness . Just before the previous national election, there was an article about a black tribal leader, urging people in the townships on to steal from white people and not from black people. And dont get me wrong, its not the people on the ground that are responsible for this hatred and utter disrespect. Its the people in power sweeping them up.

I feel everyone will get along famously, if we have a huge bonfire and we burn everyone in this country that calls himself a politician.

The ANC might have been born out of a spirit of freedom and liberation, but has now become a tyrant and a corporation. Which is only fueled by greed. And the ANC knows, the only way it will ever stay in power, is to fire up factions against each other, and to keep the majority of this country poor. They are quick in to propagate democracy for all, but do you have a say in this country? I dont think so. Does this government listen to you? Even though you pay their salary? Nope dont think so

[Angelo]

Yes listen to what Angelo says, next time, there is a farm massacre, please, dont put up a struggle, its your right to get robbed and murdered, you are not a victim, but a statistic for a beter country.

Next time you get hijacked, dont think of it as a crime, but as correcting the wrongs of the past.

When someone close to you gets raped.....no its not a crime, its allowing access for people who was previously disadvantaged.

You probably misread his posts - I don't remember him saying anything of the sort.
Thanks Sparklehorse, I really didn't have the energy to respond to Gothan's deliberate misintepretation of my statement.

[Gothan]

Thanks Sparklehorse, I really didn't have the energy to respond to Gothan's deliberate misintepretation of my statement.

Well thankfully I have you, oh enlightened one to show me the errors of my interpretation. But its because of apartheid. You cannot expect from me, growing up in apartheid, benefitting from apartheid (oh yes i went to high school in a white neighbourhood, I know its a sin, but I try.Unfortunately with university apartheid was already over) to ever be as insightful as one such as yourself

[craigsa]

Well thankfully I have you, oh enlightened one to show me the errors of my interpretation. But its because of apartheid. You cannot expect from me, growing up in apartheid, benefitting from apartheid (oh yes i went to high school in a white neighbourhood, I know its a sin, but I try.Unfortunately with university apartheid was already over) to ever be as insightful as one such as yourself
:D

[Highflyer_GP]

The Government is already doing a lot to change the anomalies created by decades of white rule it's just that people like you choose to ignore the good and focus on the bad, probably because you don't give a damn if the lives of the oppressed masses improve or not, you probably fantasise about the "good old days" of apartheid when the minority were getting away with murder (to an extent they still do.)
Yeah dude whatever, read the last line of my post. We were victims of apartheid too, and since the new government came into power I was also considered previously disadvantaged. But I didn't constantly bitch and moan about past injustices like people like you who expect free handouts just for being a certain race. Eventually hard work pays off, why is it so hard for you to grasp that concept? Work hard, forget about the past and do your own thing and you will be successful. But dont attribute your laziness or lack of ambition to past injustices because you have an opportunity now. Yet you think by constantly bringing up past injustices that people are obliged to help you. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and grow up man seriously, stop holding grudges cos it's going to get you nowhere.

[Angelo]

Yeah dude whatever, read the last line of my post. We were victims of apartheid too, and since the new government came into power I was also considered previously disadvantaged. But I didn't constantly bitch and moan about past injustices like people like you who expect free handouts just for being a certain race. Eventually hard work pays off, why is it so hard for you to grasp that concept? Work hard, forget about the past and do your own thing and you will be successful. But dont attribute your laziness or lack of ambition to past injustices because you have an opportunity now. Yet you think by constantly bringing up past injustices that people are obliged to help you. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and grow up man seriously, stop holding grudges cos it's going to get you nowhere.
Who expects free handouts.......what race am I....... who says I'm not successful?

[Highflyer_GP]

Thats exactly my point, who cares what race you are. Who cares whether you successful or not. But obviously you statements suggest people should lack ambition by expecting sympathy and handouts, instead of encouraging and motivating them to work hard. They are constantly reminded of the past, how is that going to motivate anyone? The bottom line is you stop sounding like a broken record player with apartheid this and apartheid that, then the sooner everyone can move on and start succeeding.

[DigitalSoldier]

Yeah dude whatever, read the last line of my post. We were victims of apartheid too, and since the new government came into power I was also considered previously disadvantaged. But I didn't constantly bitch and moan about past injustices like people like you who expect free handouts just for being a certain race. Eventually hard work pays off, why is it so hard for you to grasp that concept? Work hard, forget about the past and do your own thing and you will be successful. But dont attribute your laziness or lack of ambition to past injustices because you have an opportunity now. Yet you think by constantly bringing up past injustices that people are obliged to help you. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and grow up man seriously, stop holding grudges cos it's going to get you nowhere.


Well said !

Really people should stop blaming the past and move forward and not just look for ways to blame the old regime and get a free handout

[craigsa]

They do it because they know it works so well.

[Xarog]

You can blame Apartheid all you like, but it won't solve anything. The ANC's solution seems to be to funnel money into the select few who are the new 'black elites', while leaving everyone else to suffer in their squalor.

You can do what you like, including killing every single last white in the country, and stealing their posessions, but it will not result in a generally empowered majority.

Affirmative Action is costing this country billions a year in productivity; money we can't afford to lose. Incompetent people are put in positions they should never come near, and whats worse is that they feel entitled to have jobs and salaries they do not have the skills to qualify for. The ultimate irony though, is that the current government has changed the way education works, and given everyone Bantu Education.

These two problems are going to send South Africa straight to the toilet, and bitching and moaning is not going to change any of it. The ANC needs to get people qualified and capable of doing the jobs they need to do to gain economic empowerment. BEE needs to take a back seat to this. Raise a generation of educated black people and the disparity will take care of itself.

Apartheid was discrimination, yes, and jobs were reserved for the favoured citizens. But you still had to work at those jobs; incompetence wasn't excused as it is now.

Also, govt's solution to the resulting brain drain seems to be to import skills rather than employ white South Africans - and that's racism pure and simple.

[DigitalSoldier]

Agreed 100%

[Prometheus]

Man I'm glad someone digged up this thread. I missed it the first time.

It seems reality has finally bitten Mr. "Rainbow Nation", he was part of a minority of Black South Africans who supported the TRC process but now he can see it did very little to change white attitudes because Whites remain aloof despite the the compromises made by the long-suffering Black population, the majority of whom continue to live in absolute squalor. I mean here we have a country that has a glaring gulf of wealth between Whites (minority) and Blacks (overwhelming majority) yet most whites throw their toys out of the cot when they hear the slightest hint of moves to address this economic imbalance that was deliberately created by white rule. Welcome back to the harsh reality Archbishop.
"Whites remain aloof despite the the compromises made by the long-suffering Black population"

What compromises? It's the white people who had to make all the compromises through affirmative action and such BS. Many people have lost their jobs that they had for 30-40 years only to be replaced by "black" people who just came out of college and "had to" be appointed despite being incompetant at the job.

"I mean here we have a country that has a glaring gulf of wealth between Whites (minority) and Blacks (overwhelming majority)"
Isn't the ten richest people in this country black? That's why they call them the black elite and not the white elite. Then whenever you see someone with a crocked car it's a white person, but when you see a smart car it's a black person driving it. How can you still claim that whites are richer than blacks?

"yet most whites throw their toys out of the cot when they hear the slightest hint of moves to address this economic imbalance"
So you want us to be happy when black people are given preference for hiring opportunities? And then you want us to still be happy when you want to tip the scale further in favour of the black majority at the expense of the white minority. I feel like only hiring white people if I am ever in a position to do so. Not because I'm racist, but because it appears that the majority of black people are racist and we have to do something to make the playing field equal again.


People like Tutu should go back to wearing their tutus so that the rest of the country can get on with correcting this racist mentality created by the ANC that is mucking up the country.

[sparklehorse]

Isn't the ten richest people in this country black? That's why they call them the black elite and not the white elite. Then whenever you see someone with a crocked car it's a white person, but when you see a smart car it's a black person driving it. How can you still claim that whites are richer than blacks?

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=270010&area=/insight/insight__comment_and_analysis/

[Highflyer_GP]

Isn't the ten richest people in this country black?I doubt that people like the Oppenheimers and Shuttleworth are black lol. But yeah I see your point, they were self-made millionaires, didn't get things handed out to them.

[Prometheus]

I doubt that people like the Oppenheimers and Shuttleworth are black lol. But yeah I see your point, they were self-made millionaires, didn't get things handed out to them.
Actually I was talking about people like Cyril Ramaphosa and Tokyo Sexwale.
http://www.time.com/time/europe/html/050606/africa/story.html
Searched for a list of the ten richest people in SA but couldn't find one.

[FxpForce]

I doubt that people like the Oppenheimers and Shuttleworth are black lol. But yeah I see your point, they were self-made millionaires, didn't get things handed out to them.

Yea no freebies, "o soz u victem from apartheid? ....here u go free house.....free job......"

FREE is no longer part of my dictionary. Not even sex is free anymore!!! :D

[DigitalSoldier]

you always had to pay for sex but it used to be just flowers but now its diamonds and al this modern stuff :p :D

[Prometheus]

Not even sex is free anymore!!! :D

you always had to pay for sex but it used to be just flowers but now its diamonds and al this modern stuff :p :D
I don't know why anyone would want to pay for sex when there are so many woman out there that will give it for free. :confused: But that's another discussion.

[Highflyer_GP]

You have to pay in one way or another :D With a hooker it's cash directly, with a girlfriend its cash indirectly. As for those chics giving for free, all I know is there must be some kind of reason why she's offering for free. Maybe she got something you don't have yet :p

[nocilah]

TUTU can suck my hairy white nutz!

[ajak]

TUTU can suck my hairy white nutz!
And to think I was going to meet that trit in hell someday,F#ck that,i`m not going to be a sinner anymore,I WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN

[DigitalSoldier]

You have to pay in one way or another :D With a hooker it's cash directly, with a girlfriend its cash indirectly. As for those chics giving for free, all I know is there must be some kind of reason why she's offering for free. Maybe she got something you don't have yet :p

I was talking more about the indirect part :D

[ajak]

You have to pay in one way or another :D With a hooker it's cash directly, with a girlfriend its cash indirectly. As for those chics giving for free, all I know is there must be some kind of reason why she's offering for free. Maybe she got something you don't have yet :p
Chics are grow up"chiclets":D :D