Gibbs dropped!

[Highflyer_GP]

Just saw it on the news, finally the selectors are waking up from their sleep. Don't let a player think that his place in the team is gauranteed if he's not performing. Now to do something about our backup bowlers.

[stepper]

What about Biff?

[Highflyer_GP]

Well hopefully this gives the other senior players a wake up call, that they not getting paid for fsck all. They are ambassadors to this country, and should make at least some effort to restore some national pride.

[hj2k_x]

about time. A test player he is not

[.geek]

SA squad for second Test

Graeme Smith (captain), Jacques Kallis, Boeta Dippenaar, Ashwell Prince, AB de Villiers, Mark Boucher, Shaun Pollock, Nicky Boje, André Nel, Makhaya Ntini, Dale Steyn, Andrew Hall, Jacques Rudolph and Hashim Amla


HM Amla 3 6 0 62 25 10.33 35.63 - - 2 -

Source (http://www.cricket.co.za/default.asp?cId=3137&cl=yes).

Let's hope he improves on that average second time round.

[.geek]

Lorgat said that he was more than satisfied with the composition of the one-day team and with the additional bowling options in the test team in the wake of Steyn's good performance at Centurion.

"But we have to restructure the top six in our Test line-up. I am having one-on-ones with all the players as we offer them new contracts and they know exactly where they stand.

"Graeme Smith is another who owes us runs big time," he added.

Source (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&click_id=17&art_id=vn20060424100505935C207077).

[hj2k_x]

Source (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&click_id=17&art_id=vn20060424100505935C207077).

He owes us all a whole lot more than that, the toss

[zeb]

What about Biff?
Yeah, wtf. He should have been first in line to get the axe

[nivek]

mmm he is scoring some runs though..

smith that is

[web]

By the Gibbs was not dropped he is been given time off to rest. Well atleast thats what i heard on the radio.

[dominic]

fair enough he keeps getting bowled but he still has a higher average vs the aussies then anyone else in the top 6 bar kallis

[killadoob]

you know what i think look at boucher:
they dropped him and he fought his way back and is now playing awesome cricket

i say drop him give him a shock

[Albereth]

Andrew Hudson thinks Gibbs should be given more time at the crease to come right. Well, they gave Hudson more time and he never came right.

[kingmonty]

mmm, I think everyone is a little hard on smith. He ain't my favourite player and certainly not my favourite captain, but he has immense talent and capability. Wow, how everyone seems to forget that 2 years ago he was likened to the great Don Bradman by the British press. Kallis is useless, he bats too slowly, and he must get the **** out of the national team. He will also not be a good captain, contrary to what some people think. Kallis is a conservative and to be a good test team you need to think faster game play and bigger risks. The aussies do it, no matter where they play. They always have someone scoring a hundred or getting close. And in many of those cases those hundreds are often doubles. But scoring hundreds is only half the story, as we all know kallis scores a couple every now and then. The point is, the Aussie and England hundreds are scored almost at a run a ball, not a run every 4 balls as is with Kallis. Kallis should be dropped until he learns to play faster. He has all the talent in the world but bats purely for his average and not for the team.

[.geek]

Kallis is useless, he bats too slowly, and he must get the **** out of the national team. He will also not be a good captain, contrary to what some people think. Kallis is a conservative and to be a good test team you need to think faster game play and bigger risks. The aussies do it, no matter where they play. They always have someone scoring a hundred or getting close. And in many of those cases those hundreds are often doubles. But scoring hundreds is only half the story, as we all know kallis scores a couple every now and then. The point is, the Aussie and England hundreds are scored almost at a run a ball, not a run every 4 balls as is with Kallis. Kallis should be dropped until he learns to play faster. He has all the talent in the world but bats purely for his average and not for the team.


JH Kallis 10 16 3 928 149 71.38 4 4 14 0


JH Kallis 240.4 60 749 19 39.42 4-13 0 0

Source (http://www.cricket.co.za/default.asp?cId=12465&cl=yes).


The LG ICC Test All-rounder Rankings

Batsmen Bowlers » All-rounders
1 Jacques Kallis SA

2 Andrew Flintoff ENG

3 Daniel Vettori NZ

4 Irfan Pathan IND

5 Shaun Pollock SA

Don't be retarded now.

[mccrack]

:rolleyes: Yep, Kallis provides the stability we desperately require in our fragile top order. Rather look @ the players that bat around Kallis who aren't scoring, these are the more attacking players like Smith & Gibbs.

I'm glad Gibbsy got dropped from the Test Team, it seems he has become too complacent. Maybe this will kick start his lust again.

Hopefully the message will get across to Smiffy as well that he needs to score runs, unless we continue to loose test series i dont think Smiffy will be dropped, that would mean the UCB would have too admit that they made a **** up in appointing him, it's a pitty we didn't player a higher ranking team like England or India or even Pakistand instead of New Zealand, that would have really put the spotlight on Smiffy.

Now to find something to do with the Quota filling Prince .....

[derekc]

Prince's technique does not suit the current way International cricket is played. IMO he should've been the one who should be dropped and Gibbs fills his position whilst Amla bats at 4 and Kallis at 3. He rotates strike pretty well but that's all that's good. He does sometimes put in a few good performances but he doesn't seem like a world class player like Gibbs, Kallis and Smith.

[kingmonty]

that does not deter from his extremely slow batting rate. don't call people retarded either.

[Angelo]

I wonder how many match-winners like Makhaya Ntini the country has missed out on because of our histroy.

[Gothan]

I wonder how many match-winners like Makhaya Ntini the country has missed out on because of our histroy.


Your probably the only person in this country, that still protests and demands that they change pool, so that the black sink the white. If you are black, MOVE ON! and if you are white, deal with it!

[Angelo]

Your probably the only person in this country, that still protests and demands that they change pool, so that the black sink the white. If you are black, MOVE ON! and if you are white, deal with it!
what the hell are you on about???

[Gothan]

While everyone in this threat is discussing the event of why gibbs were dropped, you are the one that is starting up again with past imbalances. This is not a political thread, its about who is playing cricket and who's not.

Did you join this forum to throw politics into every thread? Or is it just a pet hobby of yours?

[justinct]

Kallis will never win you a test match, he can only ever save it for you.
He only bats for his average.
However you would be crazy to not have him in your test team, but get his ass out of the one day team, he wastes deliveries. If boeta dippenaar did not get out when he did vs aus we would have lost that one day match.

[Gothan]

Kallis will never win you a test match, he can only ever save it for you.
He only bats for his average.
However you would be crazy to not have him in your test team, but get his ass out of the one day team, he wastes deliveries. If boeta dippenaar did not get out when he did vs aus we would have lost that one day match.

Agree 100%, He is excellent in tests, but in one days oh boy there is not enough overs for kallis to get started. Although when was the last time he actually got started. I think they should move more responsibility to boucher. Maybe even permanent captain, he is excellent at what he does and standing behind the wickets all day, he has a nice POV of the whole field and the placings

[Luke7777]

All Gibbs needs is a short tour to the Windies, just to get *that* smell again ;)

[stepper]

All Gibbs needs is a short tour to the Windies, just to get *that* smell again ;)
Ya mon! So is Andre' Nel!

[justinct]

Shame, poor herbal gibbs :p

[killadoob]

gothan are you racist or something geez relax man
it was just a comment and you freak out


chilllllllllllllllll out

[Gothan]

Of course I'm a racist, I keep company with the likes of you

[.geek]

Kallis will never win you a test match, he can only ever save it for you.
He only bats for his average.
However you would be crazy to not have him in your test team, but get his ass out of the one day team, he wastes deliveries. If boeta dippenaar did not get out when he did vs aus we would have lost that one day match.

Kallis has won many test matches with his performances over the years. Do not post these rediculous claims of "he only bats for his average". Please, that is just pathetic.

[Gothan]

Kallis has won many test matches with his performances over the years. Do not post these rediculous claims of "he only bats for his average". Please, that is just pathetic.

You know, I also won a cricket match at school when I was 12, that doesnt mean I should sit back and wait for the endorsements to rush in. He is an amazing player no doubt, but its been awhile since he has shown any flair

[.geek]

Kallis wasn't 12 when he played for South Africa.

His test averages for 2005 say it all:


JH Kallis 10 16 3 928 149 71.38 4 4 14 0

If your team is losing matches with players producing performances like that, then there are some serious problems.

[justinct]

Yeah and in those matches we won, what were his scores?
And when we were chasing what was his strike rate?
And when we were batting 1st?

The game of test cricket has evolved into a faster game, the aussies have shown the world how. But then if you want to sit back and watch kallis get an average of 70 off a strike rate of 50% then be my guest. Just dont moan then when we are ranked no 5 in the world in test matches.

Like i said, he will never win you a test match, he will only ever save it by batting for the draw.

[Gothan]

But the thing is, we are loosing matches. The NZ one was the first in how many matches?

[kingmonty]

Yeah and in those matches we won, what were his scores?
And when we were chasing what was his strike rate?
And when we were batting 1st?

The game of test cricket has evolved into a faster game, the aussies have shown the world how. But then if you want to sit back and watch kallis get an average of 70 off a strike rate of 50% then be my guest. Just dont moan then when we are ranked no 5 in the world in test matches.

Like i said, he will never win you a test match, he will only ever save it by batting for the draw.
Agreed. Kallis is too slow, irrespective of his average.

[dominic]

ffs leave kallis alone

what is his test career strike rate (cannot check cricinfo as international capped)

dude has also got the highest average in second innings of any player in the world - ability to produce the goods when the chips are down

if he wasn't in the side we would have lost many more -great to score runs fast but you can only get there when you actually score runs

[justinct]

Name Mat I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
JH Kallis 99 167 28 7840 189* 56.40 42.93 24 38 95 -


Guess his strike rate speaks for itself.
If you say he doesnt bat for his average your in denial.
Btw we are ranked 6th in the test form of the game.

[mccrack]

@justinct

Test Strike Rates of some Aussie players.

Ricky Ponting career strike rate = 58.86
Justin Langer career strike rate = 53.71
Mathew Hayden career strike rate = 60.09

Kallis's SR of 56.40 doesn't look so bad now does it .......


Exactly, we are ranked 6th.

We dont have a team nearly as talented as the Aussies. They have more players that perform on a consistent basis. Where as South Africa
often find themselves 1 or 2 or even 3 down at the beginning of an innings. Should Kallis come out flaying the willow at every ball in those common situations?

Our team bats around Kallis, the likes of Smith, Gibbs, AB are the attacking players that bat around the stable Kallis.
Now if our top order could for once maybe put runs on the board with wickets in the bank then maybe Kallis can play with more freedom.

South Africa's problem in my opinion lies here.

Our Top order are not scoring consistently.
Our bowling is thin, without Ntini we would struggle to take 20 wickets. (Grateful Steyn did well, we need some pace) And no decent spinner.
Captaincy ....... not going to go here, see previous posts or take a gander @ Supercricket's MSG board.

So that pretty much only leaves the fielding as a positive but even here it's average.

[kingmonty]

ehhh.. you misread. his strike rate is 42.93 ... that's quite a bit lower than those you chose to compare with....

[kingmonty]

Gary Kirsten was a solid, stable batsman. He scored at a faster rate than Kallis, had less talent and scored bigger runs more often. He also didn't take more than 20 matches to get going. What was Kallis' average after 20 matches? Was it even in the teens?

[mccrack]

Indeed, i stand corrected. But that is 15 less than ponting who is a naturally attacking player.

I still stand my ground that given proper starts by our top order, we would see a more flamboyant Kallis.

EDIT: In that SR bracket he is comparable to Rahul Dravid who has a SR of 42.

[Highflyer_GP]

If I'm not mistaken, Kallis holds the record for the fastest test 50.

[James]

I can't believe the divvel I have read in this thread regarding Kallis. I am just glad the majority of you have 100% NO say in team selection.

[justinct]

Your also misinterpreting what i am saying.
I agree that without him we would be alot worse.
I would never leave him out of a test match, but even when the chips are down and he is batting with the last legs of the innings his run rate remains the same and he bats for his average.
Others are also not performing which leaves him room to bat for his average.

Afaik kallis holds the record for the fastest south african one day 100.
So the skill is there, the talent is there, why is he not using it?

I never said he is a terrible batsman, i think he is potentially one of the best.
But he does not grab hold of situations and therefore will never be in the class of the donald bradmans and pollocks. What irks me is that i think he can be one of those.

That you are saying you cannot believe what is being said about kallis, go buy a couple of sacricketer etc magazines from the last year or so, and many educated cricketers have the same opinion.

So im not taking a stab in the dark here.

All im saying is he has the potential and he is not using it.
We will never be where the aussies are if he does not improve his strike rate.
He is our no1 test batsman and he scores at a 42% strike rate. Its not acceptable.
Yes maybe the gibbs's and smiths go out for less runs, but atleast they are trying to get to the level that the leaders of this form of the game are at.

[.geek]

I can't believe the divvel I have read in this thread regarding Kallis. I am just glad the majority of you have 100% NO say in team selection.

Agreed! :D

[justinct]

Confusing team selection with potential and capability. Nevermind that nobody said he shouldnt be in the test team :cool:

[James]

Nevermind that nobody said he shouldnt be in the test team


Kallis is useless, he bats too slowly, and he must get the **** out of the national team

My bad, I must have misunderstood kingmonty's post if that is not what he is saying

[.geek]

haha :D

[Highflyer_GP]

:eek:
We getting worked! NZ 489-7. And we one short in the batting department cos Polly isn't playing, Nel took his place.

[derekc]

Time to blame the coach. So many dropped catches. Technical errors...I'm starting to really think it's the coach that's the problem now.

[justinct]

lol why did smith decide to field 1st??

[Highflyer_GP]

lol why did smith decide to field 1st??
Cos he wants to show everyone how brave he is and bat last on a deteriorating pitch against NZ's two specialist spinners :rolleyes:

[justinct]

Love the way prince gets the wicket of fleming...