Boucher’s successor

[Lament]

Who would you guys pick and why?
For ODI’s its AB De Villiers BUT, who has seen Quinton de Kock play?, he has played ±15 matches with a average of 63 and a SR of 92. That’s very good, and the guy is 19, he could also take over the Test matches after Boucher’s departure after the England Series. And who knows what heights he can reach

The only other guy i can think of is probably Heino Khun, the only problem i have with Khun is i don’t know if he is one of the best Wicket keepers, De Kock is a beter batsman and Keeper.

I think our test team will look like this in the near future (Smith, Rudolph, Kallis will probably retire in the next 4 years)

1.H.Amla
2.D.Elgar
3.A.De Villiers
4.R.Russouw
5.Q.de Kock
6.JP.Duminey
7.R.Mclaren
8. V.Philander
9. M.Morkel
10. D.Steyn
11.I.Tahir

[Nerfherder]

I like AB but his batting takes a dive when he is behind the wickets.

Smith and Kallis need to make room.

[Haldex]

Kallis for another 4 years?
Personal opinion but he is being selfish now, retire on a high, all he needs is a few bad innings and in an important game and he is ruined...

[Lament]

Kallis for another 4 years?
Personal opinion but he is being selfish now, retire on a high, all he needs is a few bad innings and in an important game and he is ruined...

Kallis is still good, his average is increasing instead of decreasing, that’s always good, let alone both his first ever double hundreds have been in the last 2 years, Kallis can go another 4 years and he should, he should go for the 50 hundreds, i would play him as a batsman only

[Mike Hoxbig]

Thami Tsolekile has already been confirmed as his successor, and yeah I'm not happy about it either :(

[DJ...]

I still reckon Darren Smit would make it at national level...

[zululami]

Thami Tsolekile has already been confirmed as his successor, and yeah I'm not happy about it either :(

Thami who? :confused:

[Speedster]

I like AB but his batting takes a dive when he is behind the wickets.


Thumbsuck much? AB averages over 80 in ODI's where he's the wicketkeeper!

[Mike Hoxbig]

Thami who? :confused:

Source (http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/story/553165.html)

His stats (http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/player/47630.html), which are quite ordinary. And let's not forget that he's 31 years old, so not much of a long term successor, which means that the other candidates would be older too by the time they're considered for selection.

[phoneJunky]

Thumbsuck much? AB averages over 80 in ODI's where he's the wicketkeeper!

How about tests? I remember him getting back pains in tests, but if he still averages well we should stick with him.

[zululami]

Source (http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/story/553165.html)

His stats (http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/player/47630.html), which are quite ordinary. And let's not forget that he's 31 years old, so not much of a long term successor, which means that the other candidates would be older too by the time they're considered for selection.

I consider myself somewhat of a cricket fan... but this is the first time I am hearing of this guy

[Speedster]

I consider myself somewhat of a cricket fan... but this is the first time I am hearing of this guy

Then you really aren't much of a cricket fan. He's been around for most of the last decade, played 3 tests, a bunch of SA A games and captained the Lions too :) Started off at weepee though.

[zululami]

Then you really aren't much of a cricket fan. He's been around for most of the last decade, played 3 tests, a bunch of SA A games and captained the Lions too :) Started off at weepee though.

Well, let's just say I'm only a Proteas fan! Has he ever featured prominently there?

[Speedster]

How about tests? I remember him getting back pains in tests, but if he still averages well we should stick with him.

I think it's a bit much asking him to keep in tests too. For the record though, he's only kept in 3 tests (IIRC right at the start of his career) and averaged 22.4 in those games.

[DJ...]

AB is an asset in the field and is not the best wicky in the business. It would be ludicrous to keep him behind the stumps in my opinion...

[Mike Hoxbig]

AB is an asset in the field and is not the best wicky in the business. It would be ludicrous to keep him behind the stumps in my opinion...

Agreed, it's fine in ODIs and T20s because it opens up another spot in the team. But in tests it's a no-no, you go in with your specialists.

[Lament]

If i was looking at a wicket keeper primarily then Thami would have been a strong contender, but at this day and age, your Wicket keeper needs to be a very good batsman as well, something Thami isn’t, his age is also not counting in his favor.

It will be a costly mistake if the selectors goes his root, hopefully he does the honorable thing (like Enrico January did) and retire from international before his inclusion hurts the entire team.

[TirNaNog]

It will be a costly mistake if the selectors goes his root, hopefully he does the honorable thing (like Enrico January did) and retire from international before his inclusion hurts the entire team.

Who retires early in fear that the selectors may make a mistake selecting them?

[Lament]

AB is an asset in the field and is not the best wicky in the business. It would be ludicrous to keep him behind the stumps in my opinion...

Thats why i would go the "de Kock" route, great keeper but can be selected on his batting alone, he could be the next MS Dhoni (for SA, that is) :P

[Speedster]

I'm not a Thami fan either, nor is he a long term investment but to be honest there really isn't anybody shouting "pick me" at this stage. As for Thami's batting, he averaged close on 60 in this year's SS series so there's obviously been a lot of improvement.

[Lament]

Who retires early in fear that the selectors may make a mistake selecting them?

If you know there are beter options than you and they will serve the team beter, won’t you retire?, or would you be the John Smit?

[Speedster]

If you know there are beter options than you and they will serve the team beter, won’t you retire?, or would you be the John Smit?

And miss out on the big match fees these guys earn? As well as the opportunity to represent your country?

[Speedster]

Thats why i would go the "de Kock" route, great keeper but can be selected on his batting alone, he could be the next MS Dhoni (for SA, that is) :P

Is he the kid who went bezerk for the Lions in the T20's? If he is - WHADAPLAYA!! Saw him in action at Supersport Park and he thumped the Titans boys all over the park.

[Lament]

I'm not a Thami fan either, nor is he a long term investment but to be honest there really isn't anybody shouting "pick me" at this stage. As for Thami's batting, he averaged close on 60 in this year's SS series so there's obviously been a lot of improvement.

Yes, but one season isn’t enough, pull that off for 3-4 seasons and then, and only then can and should he be selected for the national side.
Neil McKenzie has performed well the last 4 seasons but he never gets a call up, wish i knew how these selectors justify their selections

[Mike Hoxbig]

Thats why i would go the "de Kock" route, great keeper but can be selected on his batting alone, he could be the next MS Dhoni (for SA, that is) :P

Dhoni sucks in tests, I certainly don't want another Dhoni :D And AB in ODIs is way better than Dhoni anyway. But yeah, I would have chosen de Kock as well.

[Lament]

And miss out on the big match fees these guys earn? As well as the opportunity to represent your country?

Well, being 31 he probably has made a pretty penny the last few years

If i was to represent SA i would like to know i’m the best in the country and they need me, but i get what you are saying.

[Devill]

I like AB but his batting takes a dive when he is behind the wickets.

Smith and Kallis need to make room.

:erm: Kallis is playing some of the best cricket of his life...


Kallis for another 4 years?
Personal opinion but he is being selfish now, retire on a high, all he needs is a few bad innings and in an important game and he is ruined...

Have a look at the stats... Kallis is playing some of the best cricket of his career, and as long as he can continue being one of the top batsman in world cricket why is he being selfish?


Thami Tsolekile has already been confirmed as his successor, and yeah I'm not happy about it either :(

Luckly as far as i remember only a one year contract.


AB is an asset in the field and is not the best wicky in the business. It would be ludicrous to keep him behind the stumps in my opinion...

In ODIs and T20s he is great, but in tests you need the specialist. And he is one of the best imo, I have seen very few keepers with the same quality glove work or athleticism in SA.

In tests I feel that he is too much of a "core" batsman to have him keep wicket and as mentioned he has a problem with muscle cramps which cwill not be helped by keeping in tests.

[Lament]

Dhoni sucks in tests, I certainly don't want another Dhoni :D And AB in ODIs is way better than Dhoni anyway. But yeah, I would have chosen de Kock as well.

You are fussy hey...:-D
Okay, let’s say the ODI Dhoni and the Test Sangakkara :P

[Lament]

Is he the kid who went bezerk for the Lions in the T20's? If he is - WHADAPLAYA!! Saw him in action at Supersport Park and he thumped the Titans boys all over the park.

That's the kid, and he is only 19.....

in 12 first class matches he has taken 54 catches, with 4 stumping’s, 3 hundreds, 5 fifties, average of 63 and a strike rate of 91.

that’s nothing less that unbelievable

[Speedster]

Just a disclaimer on de Kock: he looks a real exciting (explosive) batting prospect but I have no idea what his keeping skills are like, nor do I know how he'll do in the trials of first class cricket. I don't think he's even played a SS game yet - only the CSA provincial challenge.

[Lament]

Just a disclaimer on de Kock: he looks a real exciting (explosive) batting prospect but I have no idea what his keeping skills are like, nor do I know how he'll do in the trials of first class cricket. I don't think he's even played a SS game yet - only the CSA provincial challenge.

Read my top post, or just check the stats here
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/379143.html

The kid can keep

[Speedster]

Read my top post, or just check the stats here
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/379143.html

The kid can keep

Those first class stats are all at CSA Provincial level, not even SS. I think, to be fair, the kid needs to be given a couple of games at SS level before one can really judge his first class credentials.

[TirNaNog]

If you know there are beter options than you and they will serve the team beter, won’t you retire?, or would you be the John Smit?

Give the selectors some credit.

[Speedster]

If I were to pick a Test keeper for after the England series, I'd lean towards Vilas. Kuhn & Tsolekile are both decent but Vilas gives more long term options. De Kock could be one for the future, but he needs some SS game time first.

[People$champ]

Where does Tami fit in the SA team he is not test grade as keeper or batsmen

AB should only keep in T20 if he must keep he is to big a asset to be behind the stumps risking his back it's no good having him keep and have a injury then his out for a hole series or two.

CSA should just pick 2 keepers under 21 one for test and one for ODI.My reason for this is to blood a keeper and a backup keeper but both should be able to bat in the top 6 use the batsman with the better temperament for test and the better worker of the ball in ODI.

Then they can see who the #1 keeper/batsman is to use as the test one.AB or Amla should only keep if the keeper gets injured during a match.

It's a risk picking a keeper at 29/30 then the cycle needs to be done after 3 or 4 years again.The unions should also try to spot talented keepers and spinners at younger ages as this is what the proteas lack in depth

[Lament]

Those first class stats are all at CSA Provincial level, not even SS. I think, to be fair, the kid needs to be given a couple of games at SS level before one can really judge his first class credentials.

i have to agree, give him 2 years!!

Heino Khun is the obvious 2nd choice, another name that comes to mind is Dane Vilas

Edit, sorry speedster, i see you beat me to it in suggesting Vilas :D

[DrYes]

I fully agree that we should give de Kock a crack.This BS about players being too young and let them prove themselves at provincial level, needs to stop.
All the great players in test history who have showed some talent at a young age were immediately given international exposure.
Even Boucher started young.
By playing the waiting game talented players start to doubt about their own merit within the Proteas setup and look elsewhere for opportunities.Look at Peterson and Trott.

[Mike Hoxbig]

I fully agree that we should give de Kock a crack.This BS about players being too young and let them prove themselves at provincial level, needs to stop.
All the great players in test history who have showed some talent at a young age were immediately given international exposure.
Even Boucher started young.
By playing the waiting game talented players start to doubt about their own merit within the Proteas setup and look elsewhere for opportunities.Look at Peterson and Trott.

Tendulkar started at 16! Kallis and Boucher both started when they were around 20. If someone has the talent then they will thrive irrespective of the playing conditions, they just need the support and patience!

[People$champ]

I fully agree that we should give de Kock a crack.This BS about players being too young and let them prove themselves at provincial level, needs to stop.
All the great players in test history who have showed some talent at a young age were immediately given international exposure.
Even Boucher started young.
By playing the waiting game talented players start to doubt about their own merit within the Proteas setup and look elsewhere for opportunities.Look at Peterson and Trott.

Agreed we may loose more talented players to play the waiting game.

Give them a shot if they fail they need to work on there game.

Look at Vernon Philander he got dropped then worked at his game now his reaping the reward at test level

[Devill]

I fully agree that we should give de Kock a crack.This BS about players being too young and let them prove themselves at provincial level, needs to stop.
All the great players in test history who have showed some talent at a young age were immediately given international exposure.
Even Boucher started young.
By playing the waiting game talented players start to doubt about their own merit within the Proteas setup and look elsewhere for opportunities.Look at Peterson and Trott.

If you are good enough, you are old enough.

[Speedster]

If you are good enough, you are old enough.

How do you know if he's good enough if he's never even played a SS match? I'm all for picking youngsters but I also think it is unfair, for example, picking a kid for a Test based on his high school credentials.

[DrYes]

The good thing about picking players when they're young is that should they fail they can always come back and make good.
Look at Hayden and now hopefully Rudolph,who after being out of it for 5 years is still under 30, and has many years of cricket ahead of him.
Not so for the likes of Tsolikele.I stiring of bad matches and its game over.He wont be eligeble for re-selection a few years down the line.

[DrYes]

How do you know if he's food enough if he's never even played a SS match? I'm all for picking youngsters but I also think it is unfair, for example, picking a kid for a Test based on his high school credentials.

you mean like Kallis?

[Devill]

How do you know if he's good enough if he's never even played a SS match? I'm all for picking youngsters but I also think it is unfair, for example, picking a kid for a Test based on his high school credentials.

It is a statement in general. I was not refering to anyone in particular. But the point stands, If you are good enough you are old enough.

[Speedster]

you mean like Kallis?

Something you guys are missing, whether with Kallis or Tendulkar, is that they proved themselves at first class level before being drafted into the test team (and I'm not talking about 4 years, but at least a couple of games). Kallis played for WP in the 1993/94 season and only made his debut in Dec 1995. Tendulkar played a full season of first class cricket before being selected for the Indian team. Another point to remember is that neither Kallis nor Tendulkar had stellar starts to their test careers. If we're going to pick youngsters then the public (you and me) need to give these guys some serious slack. I can just see the derogatroy comments on this forum if de Kock gets selected and averages 25 in his first series.

I'm not even sure why this has become an issue, SA cricket has a healthy history of picking youngsters - be it Kallis (21), de Villiers (20), Gibbs (22), Steyn (22), de Lange (21), Adams (18), Duminy (20), Rudolph (22), Parnell (19), Ngam (21) and the list goes on.

Edit: Add Amla (21), Smith (21), Boucher (20)

[Speedster]

It is a statement in general. I was not refering to anyone in particular. But the point stands, If you are good enough you are old enough.
With this I agree

[Speedster]

In case anyone is interested, here (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?agemax1=21;ageval1=age;class=1;debut_or _last=1;filter=advanced;orderby=start;orderbyad=re verse;team=3;template=results;type=batting) is a list of all the SA Test players who made their debuts aged 21 or younger. And here (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?agemax1=21;ageval1=age;class=2;debut_or _last=1;filter=advanced;orderby=start;orderbyad=re verse;team=3;template=results;type=batting) is the list for ODIs.

Note: For some reason it takes an eon to load.

[baxter]

Source (http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/story/553165.html)

His stats (http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/player/47630.html), which are quite ordinary. And let's not forget that he's 31 years old, so not much of a long term successor, which means that the other candidates would be older too by the time they're considered for selection.

He did have a good two seasons and did well for S.A. A. I think he will get the gloves but it will be a brief stint unless he piles on runs. 31 is the same age players like Hayden, Hussey and Haddin came back into the international game and left their mark. I don't rate Tami highly but we know he's going to get the sentimental vote because he's waiting in the wings so long.

[baxter]

I like AB but his batting takes a dive when he is behind the wickets.

Smith and Kallis need to make room.


You're mad ! Kallis and smith have averaged over 50 for their last few seasons. Biff is not everyone favorite but he always comes right under pressure. Besides Kallis with his new hair is like our personal Samson. Since he got it he knocked a couple of 200's and started taking wickets again.