Dad accidentally kills daughter in robbery

[OrbitalDawn]

Johannesburg - A Centurion man accidentally shot dead his young daughter on Friday morning when their house was broken into, Gauteng police said.

Lieutenant Colonel Lungelo Dlamini said the man was awoken by a commotion at his house on Glover Street.

"He went upstairs to fetch his firearm and while he was there, he heard the commotion again near the door. He fired a shot which hit and injured his... daughter," said Dlamini.

"She was taken to hospital in a critical condition, where she died. We have opened a case of culpable homicide."

Dlamini said the five robbers fled the premise with a handbag, which belonged to the man's wife. No arrests had been made.

Beeld newspaper reported that the father had heard dogs bark, went downstairs to investigate and spotted a robber in the house, in the early hours of Friday morning.

He ran back up to his bedroom, slammed the door and took his firearm from the safe. At that stage, his 8-year-old daughter had woken up and wanted to go into her parent's bedroom.

When she turned the door knob, her father thought it was one of the intruders and fired a shot.

He opened the door and found her lying there. According to Beeld she had been shot in the head.
- SAPA

Source. (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Dad-accidentally-kills-daughter-in-robbery-20120518)

:cry:

I see they've opened a case of culpable homicide.

[Ekstasis]

A few years ago some famous rugby player accidentally shot and killed his daughter as well. He thought it was a robber trying to enter the house, when in fact it was his daughter. Iirc she slipped in/out of the house for a party she attended.

Stupid

[ponder]

A few years ago some famous rugby player accidentally shot and killed his daughter as well. He thought it was a robber trying to enter the house, when in fact it was his daughter. Iirc she slipped in/out of the house for a party she attended.


No he shot her outside in her car through the window as he thought someone was trying to steal the car.

Dunno how you can fire a weapon without any identification.

[Ekstasis]

No he shot her outside in her car through the window as he thought someone was trying to steal the car.

Ah yes, now I remember. Thought I got the story wrong somewhere :o. Even then it was a shock - imagine you accidentally kill your own child.

Dunno how you can fire a weapon without any identification.
+10000
stupid stupid stupid

[beans100]

Strong to the family.
Thats one reason why I don't alow firearms in my house. Accidents and bad things happens around them. I hate the shait out of them. I used to work with guns and still didn't like carrying back then.

[ponder]

Just to add, I doubt they will prosecute the father. Having to live with what he has done is more punishment than any court could hand out to him. That's what happened to the rugby player dude anyway.

[Hemi300c]

This is very sad and should have been done differently. You have a gat use it properly like taking it with you when you suspect something, what is the point of a gun in the safe.

Mine is always on me unless business/travel prevails.

[WatchMan]

Jesus ****ing Christ!!!!! Why, jirre ***, why!!!!! Puts his baby to sleep forever in a moment of fear and panic. Deepest sympathy and condolences with this family, an particularly the dad. So much crime, hurt, and horror.

[cbrunsdonza]

Strong to the family.
Thats one reason why I don't alow firearms in my house. Accidents and bad things happens around them. I hate the shait out of them. I used to work with guns and still didn't like carrying back then.

+1

One of the reasons why I got my wife to hand in hers. My son was also nearly the victim of firearm negligence and thats when I realised it can happen to anybody. (walked on him playing my brother in laws 9mm he carelessly left lying around - safety was on thank goodness)

[Nicodeamus]

I don't know how I would be able to sleep had this happened to me.

[skimread]

This is probably the saddest news story I have read in a long time.

[Romito]

No he shot her outside in her car through the window as he thought someone was trying to steal the car.

Dunno how you can fire a weapon without any identification.

She didn't want to wake her parents so she pushed the car to get far enough to start it without making a noise. Went to school with her.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5

[skimread]

Another article with more detail:
http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Man-skiet-op-dief-tref-kind-20120518

[marine1]

Terrible news - this is the country we live in unfortunately.
The gvt refuses to protect the innocent but rather protects the criminals so people have to defend themselves, and this is the result
:mad:

[VJB 449]

:cry:

[Pr⊕phet]

Terrible news - this is the country we live in unfortunately.
The gvt refuses to protect the innocent but rather protects the criminals so people have to defend themselves, and this is the result
:mad:

Goes both sides one doesn't simply just shoot, but then again we have to ask the question how did we arrive at a point making us just shoot and then ask questions.

[R13...]

Sad really. There was that thread with xrapid arguing something like this with others.

[DrYes]

The sensible thing is to secure your family first before firing off your weapon.

[AfricanTech]

So so sad. My heart goes out to that dad and his family.

I absolutely hate what crime in this country does to us as people. We live in lock down and paranoia in our own homes.

[BeVonk!]

Firing a weapon without seeing your target is irrisponsible and stupid. Warning shot would have been enough and appropriate. I know it is easy to say this not having been there but this is exactly why gun owners need training (and not just training to shoot straight but scenario training as well).

[AstroTurf]

I have had my dad point a gun at me thinking I wad a robber as well. I also snuck out. one of the reasons I don't have one.

without spending hours a month in training it can be just as dangerous for the family as keeping a pet lion. only my view not in the mood for a debate on this :-)

[Randhir]

Oh my god this is so sad :(

[Mila]

:cry:

[MickeyD]

This is one of the reasons why I don't have a gun in the house.

Extremely sad incident...

[Ockie]

My god...the guilt this father will have to live with....and I would not be surprised if his marriage also starts collapses around him after this. This is extremely sad.

I do believe people, specially in this country have a right to defend themselves..and if a robber gets into the house...shoot his head off first and then ask questions. BUT...this incident and peeps responding here does raise very valid questions. It does put me in two minds.

[MickeyD]

My god...the guilt this father will have to live with....and I would not be surprised if his marriage also starts collapses around him after this. This is extremely sad.

I do believe people, specially in this country have a right to defend themselves..and if a robber gets into the house...shoot his head off first and then ask questions. BUT...this incident and peeps responding here does raise very valid questions. It does put me in two minds.
When our first child was born I sold my pistol and my rifle.

[Ockie]

When our first child was born I sold my pistol and my rifle.

There are so many stories around of kids playing with guns and ending up killing themselves. I do not understand how anyone leaves a gun lying around...but it does happen obviously.

My friend has a gun....I honestly dont know when last she used it or went for training...but she keeps it locked in her safe on a permanent basis.

Yours was most likely a wise decision. ;) Unfortunately, people cant help but wonder I think, "What if someone breaks into my house to come and rape my wife and daughter...how will I as one man be able to protect them against 3 or four men?" This is the reality that many fathers face...will face...and have faced.

[MickeyD]

There are so many stories around of kids playing with guns and ending up killing themselves. I do not understand how anyone leaves a gun lying around...but it does happen obviously.

My friend has a gun....I honestly dont know when last she used it or went for training...but she keeps it locked in her safe on a permanent basis.

Yours was most likely a wise decision. ;) Unfortunately, people cant help but wonder I think, "What if someone breaks into my house to come and rape my wife and daughter...how will I as one man be able to protect them against 3 or four men?" This is the reality that many fathers face...will face...and have faced.
Unless you sleep with your pistol/revolver under your pillow (illegal) you have won't get to your safe in time to use you gun. And then the intruders hold a knife to your neck and demand that you open the safe...

BOT - this must be one of the most traumatic things you could experience.

[Ockie]

Unless you sleep with your pistol/revolver under your pillow (illegal) you have won't get to your safe in time to use you gun. And then the intruders hold a knife to your neck and demand that you open the safe...

BOT - this must be one of the most traumatic things you could experience.

I agree. Many people have partitioned their house off with trelidors though...so to get to the rooms, you have to break through that first...and this will definately make noise and give more than enough time.

But ja MickeyMooseGoose....I dont know where I actually stand on this one hey. I think people have a right to defend themselves...but then with accidents like this. "sigh".....I just dont know.

[Garyvdh]

Maybe he paniced in the heat of the moment. But either way he was not qualified or trained properly in home defense. Very sad. Poor guy.

[Geriatrix]

Unless you sleep with your pistol/revolver under your pillow (illegal) you have won't get to your safe in time to use you gun. And then the intruders hold a knife to your neck and demand that you open the safe...

BOT - this must be one of the most traumatic things you could experience.
Not necessarily true. Only if said boefs are in your room or you are not.


I agree. Many people have partitioned their house off with trelidors though...so to get to the rooms, you have to break through that first...and this will definately make noise and give more than enough time.

But ja MickeyMooseGoose....I dont know where I actually stand on this one hey. I think people have a right to defend themselves...but then with accidents like this. "sigh".....I just dont know.
I think people have the right to protect themselves. But this guy broke the law. The FA clearly states that you are not allowed to shoot blindly at sounds or movement. You are only allowed to shoot an attacker who is currently in the process of trying to attack you or someone close to you.
I commend the guys who refuse to keep guns in their houses though. If you are not absolutely gun safety orientated to the point of paranoia or you don't feel confident in how and when to use a gun legally then get rid of it asap.

[Centronix]

This is heartbreaking. How does one live with that. Chivas can only help you so much

[ponder]

There are so many stories around of kids playing with guns and ending up killing themselves.

My one mates dad always had his .38 on the small table next to his lazy boy. We were warned never to touch it but kids don't listen. The one he got up to go outside he forgot to take it with him and kids being kids my friend went "wanna see?" so we did. Second later his dad was back in the house and we both got donnered properly. He told my parents and apologised for leaving the gun on the table and I got another hiding from my dad.

Only weapon I handled after that was as a adult (supervised) and it was unloaded, except for the one time target shooting on a farm with a R5.

[Korn1]

OMG the poor father :cry:

[snail]

It's guys like this that give us firearm owners a bad reputation. He should of known better than to of just start popping caps through the door (especially if there are other residents in the premises).

Sure, in the heat of the moment he must of been crapping himself, or maybe he was just wanting to prove a point that he won't tolerate the suspects entering his premises, however he did not have a clear line of site, and giving the fact that there was still a defence between himself and the "assumed suspect" he should of not of discharged his firearm until such time as there was no other reasonable option of being protected.

Even if this was the other way around and it was a suspect attempting to open the door, he still would of got charged on the aforementioned basis (shooting through the door), so either way he is/ was going to be screwed regardless of who he shot.

[proxilin]

I don't know if anything can prepare you for the state of panic and fear he must've been in. Your head can't be thinking straight when there are armed robbers in your house and you have to protect your family through split second decisions. I think this is the worst thing that can ever happen to anyone.

I blame this solely on the constant fear South Africans live in due to the high crime and the audacity of people to come into your home while you are there. It boggles the mind how this can be allowed by government to be an every day "normal" occurrence, while they are living large and stuffing their faces through corruption. Life musn't seem so bad when you are being driven in your Mercedes AMG in a blue light convoy. The poor are destitute with no hope, and crime is the best option some of them seem to have. Give them a proper education, hope for a genuinely better life, pride in themselves, and only then will all of this madness have a chance of disappearing.

[AfricanTech]

I don't know if anything can prepare you for the state of panic and fear he must've been in. Your head can't be thinking straight when there are armed robbers in your house and you have to protect your family through split second decisions. I think this is the worst thing that can ever happen to anyone.

I blame this solely on the constant fear South Africans live in due to the high crime and the audacity of people to come into your home while you are there. It boggles the mind how this can be allowed by government to be an every day "normal" occurrence, while they are living large and stuffing their faces through corruption. Life musn't seem so bad when you are being driven in your Mercedes AMG in a blue light convoy. The poor are destitute with no hope, and crime is the best option some of them seem to have. Give them a proper education, hope for a genuinely better life, pride in themselves, and only then will all of this madness have a chance of disappearing.

+1

Having been on the receiving end of a violent mugging in my youth and a number of breakins, if you've never experienced it you have no idea of the fear reaction that you develop. You react in a completely different manner from your normal rational self.

I also got rid of my gun when my first child was born and insist that my gun toting friends and relatives lock their firearms away when I'm visiting with my kids.

Of course he should not have shot through the door, but what a state of fear he must have been in.

Horrible, horrible, horrible...there are no winners here

Edit: changed word "name" to "number"

[MickeyD]

+1

Having been on the receiving end of a violent mugging in my youth and a name of breakins, if you've never experienced it you have no idea of the fear reaction that you develop. You react in a completely different manner from your normal rational self.

I also got rid of my gun when my first child was born and insist that my gun toting friends and relatives lock their firearms away when I'm visiting with my kids.
I have twice been on the receiving end. Once when single and living on my own and then when my daughter was still in nappies. Fortunately for me no firearms were used (both times).

[Geriatrix]

I have twice been on the receiving end. Once when single and living on my own and then when my daughter was still in nappies. Fortunately for me no firearms were used (both times).
I've been through a hijacking with my wife, both had pistols against our heads and I've been chased by a taxi driver with an AK.
Changes your perspective on life.

[MickeyD]

I've been through a hijacking with my wife, both had pistols against our heads and I've been chased by a taxi driver with an AK.
Changes your perspective on life.
Fully agree (won't even mention the Army days)...

The result was to sell the house and buy a more secure property and then turn it into a fortress. Sad reflection on our society.

[Geriatrix]

The result was to sell the house and buy a more secure property and then turn it into a fortress. Sad reflection on our society.
Oh how I wish I could afford that...:(

[Korn1]

I've been through a hijacking with my wife, both had pistols against our heads and I've been chased by a taxi driver with an AK.
Changes your perspective on life.

I saved both my dad and sister in hijackings in the drive way.One had a gun with my dad and the other with my sister had nothing and she was a police reserv at the time

[blunomore]

I've been through a hijacking with my wife, both had pistols against our heads and I've been chased by a taxi driver with an AK.
Changes your perspective on life.

I am not being facetious, but how was your perspective on life changed? What was it before and what is it now ?

[proxilin]

I am not being facetious, but how was your perspective on life changed? What was it before and what is it now ?

I would think something like that makes you realise just how soon it could all end, and you appreciate life more. Many of us just go through the motions of the day, instead of savouring every moment.

[McT]

A few years ago some famous rugby player accidentally shot and killed his daughter as well. He thought it was a robber trying to enter the house, when in fact it was his daughter. Iirc she slipped in/out of the house for a party she attended.

Stupid

The rugby player was Rudi Visagie, iirc :cry:

[genetic]

He must be a broken man. This is so sad :(

[gregmcc]

Very sad indeed. I'm blame the govt for this! :mad: we have to live in fear and are forced to protect ourselves.

[Fudzy]

Very sad indeed. I'm blame the govt for this! :mad: we have to live in fear and are forced to protect ourselves.

Sadly, a change in government won't sort out the crime problem any time soon. Why didn't he get his daughter out of her room?

[marine1]

Sadly, a change in government won't sort out the crime problem any time soon. Rubbish, this government has shown that it takes the rights of criminals (themselves) more seriously than law abiding citizens.

[COMPUTEK]

Shame.Sad Story :mad:

[Eskimos]

The sensible thing is to secure your family first before firing off your weapon.

Yeah, I thought the same thing when reading the article. Surely just firing randomly without identifying who it is, is a stupid idea. If there is more then one robber, it could just aggravate the situation and they could go after other family members, whom he obviously didn't know where they were.



Firing a weapon without seeing your target is irrisponsible and stupid. Warning shot would have been enough and appropriate. I know it is easy to say this not having been there but this is exactly why gun owners need training (and not just training to shoot straight but scenario training as well).

Agree. There is a lawful way to go about it and this guy obviously wasn't sufficient trained/knowledgeable. I totally understand it was a heat of the moment thing, but sort of basics like firing a warning shot or even identifying the attacker and only shooting if he is attacking you are in place to prevent these sort of things from happening.


Not necessarily true. Only if said boefs are in your room or you are not.


I think people have the right to protect themselves. But this guy broke the law. The FA clearly states that you are not allowed to shoot blindly at sounds or movement. You are only allowed to shoot an attacker who is currently in the process of trying to attack you or someone close to you.
I commend the guys who refuse to keep guns in their houses though. If you are not absolutely gun safety orientated to the point of paranoia or you don't feel confident in how and when to use a gun legally then get rid of it asap.

I would never feel safe with a gun in my house, too many accidents can happen.


Sadly, a change in government won't sort out the crime problem any time soon. Why didn't he get his daughter out of her room?

I'm also wondering about this. First secure your family and then you deal with other aspects of the situation. I suppose though, the situation was too sudden and too much for him to handle and his instincts kicked in without him thinking it through.

Poor guy.

[noxibox]

I agree. Many people have partitioned their house off with trelidors though...so to get to the rooms, you have to break through that first...and this will definately make noise and give more than enough time.
The room in which they sleep would also have to inaccessible from the outside. No good if someone can sneak around in the garden and keep a watch from outside the bedroom.


There are so many stories around of kids playing with guns and ending up killing themselves. I do not understand how anyone leaves a gun lying around...but it does happen obviously.
It happens due to negligence, but also people can underestimate the abilities of children. Even locking it away doesn't necessarily keep it out of their hands. And in a thread a while back we had some gun owner claiming it was impossible for a small child to fire a weapon.


Yours was most likely a wise decision. ;) Unfortunately, people cant help but wonder I think, "What if someone breaks into my house to come and rape my wife and daughter...how will I as one man be able to protect them against 3 or four men?" This is the reality that many fathers face...will face...and have faced.
Unless one is well-trained and practices regularly chances are you won't be able to make proper use of the weapon when the time comes. A handgun isn't really the ideal home defence weapon either.

[Geriatrix]

A handgun isn't really the ideal home defence weapon either.
What is?

[MickeyD]

What is?
An efficient Police Force, Judicial system and an economy that promotes job creation to reduce the current unemployment rate....


:D


/dons flame suit

[Geriatrix]

An efficient Police Force, Judicial system and an economy that promotes job creation to reduce the current unemployment rate....

Ah, yes. Where can I get one of those? :D

[McT]

An efficient Police Force, Judicial system and an economy that promotes job creation to reduce the current unemployment rate....


:D


/dons flame suit

A flame suit should not be necessary, as this is 100% on the mark. Sadly we're still a long way away.

[Glock26]

An efficient Police Force, Judicial system and an economy that promotes job creation to reduce the current unemployment rate....


:D


/dons flame suit
That is bull#%$@
Police are only called after an incident. By then it is too late. Doesn't matter if the crime rate is only 10 a year...someone has to be one of those 10.
Job creation? Puhleeeez!
Crime is simply too easy. Most of these robberies and murders are not motivated by poverty. Look at some of these kingpins living the high life. Once money can be made with little effort, poverty is not an issue anymore.
Judicial system? Studies have shown that criminals hardly even consider the consequences of being caught, as in their minds they won't be. The only thing that a decent criminal justice system might be effective at, is keeping convicted felons in jail and not on the streets. That is about the only real deterrent to crime.
That, and the fact that victims are able to fight back.
Here is one tragic incident where someone acted irresponsibly and has to live with the consequences for the rest of his life. But what about the hundred other incidents where someone is alive now because of his private firearm. Those aren't published...they aren't "news enough"

G26

[MickeyD]

That is bull#%$@
Police are only called after an incident. By then it is too late. Doesn't matter if the crime rate is only 10 a year...someone has to be one of those 10.
Job creation? Puhleeeez!
Crime is simply too easy. Most of these robberies and murders are not motivated by poverty. Look at some of these kingpins living the high life. Once money can be made with little effort, poverty is not an issue anymore.
Judicial system? Studies have shown that criminals hardly even consider the consequences of being caught, as in their minds they won't be. The only thing that a decent criminal justice system might be effective at, is keeping convicted felons in jail and not on the streets. That is about the only real deterrent to crime.
That, and the fact that victims are able to fight back.
Here is one tragic incident where someone acted irresponsibly and has to live with the consequences for the rest of his life. But what about the hundred other incidents where someone is alive now because of his private firearm. Those aren't published...they aren't "news enough"

G26
What is the cause of our high crime rate?

[ponder]

What is?

Sawn off semi automatic shotgun :D

[Fudzy]

That is bull#%$@
Police are only called after an incident. By then it is too late. Doesn't matter if the crime rate is only 10 a year...someone has to be one of those 10.
Job creation? Puhleeeez!
Crime is simply too easy. Most of these robberies and murders are not motivated by poverty. Look at some of these kingpins living the high life. Once money can be made with little effort, poverty is not an issue anymore.
Judicial system? Studies have shown that criminals hardly even consider the consequences of being caught, as in their minds they won't be. The only thing that a decent criminal justice system might be effective at, is keeping convicted felons in jail and not on the streets. That is about the only real deterrent to crime.
That, and the fact that victims are able to fight back.
Here is one tragic incident where someone acted irresponsibly and has to live with the consequences for the rest of his life. But what about the hundred other incidents where someone is alive now because of his private firearm. Those aren't published...they aren't "news enough"

G26

Negative stories sell/attract more attention unfortunately. There have been a lot of stories of criminals catching it recently though.

[porchrat]

Terrible news - this is the country we live in unfortunately.
The gvt refuses to protect the innocent but rather protects the criminals so people have to defend themselves, and this is the result
:mad:
This man was not defending himself and so no this isn't the result of someone defending himself. This is the result of irresponsible behaviour and poor judgement with a firearm.

Unfortunate that his innocent daughter had to die. Very saddening. :(

[Geriatrix]

But what about the hundred other incidents where someone is alive now because of his private firearm. Those aren't published...they aren't "news enough"

I can recall 2 in the news just this past week alone.
That farmer with the rolly and the kid in the Cape(was it the Cape? not sure).

[Glock26]

What is the cause of our high crime rate?

You may want to look at the entire continent for the answer to that.
A basic disrespect for human life and basic savagery. You ever contemplated hacking someone's arm off with a machete or burning some guy on a human pyre? Are you capable of it?
Western morals seem to have evolved past that by now. If that comes across as biased or stereotypical, you are falling for the rubbish being fed to you by the hippies and liberal media. Sometimes the truth is "inconvenient"

G26

[MickeyD]

You may want to look at the entire continent for the answer to that.
A basic disrespect for human life and basic savagery. You ever contemplated hacking someone's arm off with a machete or burning some guy on a human pyre? Are you capable of it?
Western morals seem to have evolved past that by now. If that comes across as biased or stereotypical, you are falling for the rubbish being fed to you by the hippies and liberal media. Sometimes the truth is "inconvenient"

G26
I have seen first hand what you describe and it's neither a pretty sight nor smell.

Are you implying that all Africans are less moral than their Western counterparts? I'm also African and it is not acceptable to me.

[Glock26]

No, of course not all. But the question was regarding the causes of crime, and I maintain that this criminality is caused by this effect, which is far more widespread in Africa than other (more first world) places. A basic (and widespread) lack of common human caring. People who run rampant through streets burning their own schools without any thought, or who go on a mass killing spree of dogs because one bit someone, or who kill babies for human parts....these are the criminals who don't give a second thought about committing crime.
Do all Africans do that? Of course not. But the criminals do...and it isn't poverty causing it. It is a mental thing.

G26

[MickeyD]

No, of course not all. But the question was regarding the causes of crime, and I maintain that this criminality is caused by this effect, which is far more widespread in Africa than other (more first world) places. A basic (and widespread) lack of common human caring. People who run rampant through streets burning their own schools without any thought, or who go on a mass killing spree of dogs because one bit someone, or who kill babies for human parts....these are the criminals who don't give a second thought about committing crime.
Do all Africans do that? Of course not. But the criminals do...and it isn't poverty causing it. It is a mental thing.

G26
In this context, I agree.

BOT...

I am not anti-guns or self-protection devices. However I would like to see tighter and regular proficiency testing. This must include a basic understanding of the law.

[Glock26]

You do understand the current process to receive a gun license, right?
You have to first obtain a competency certificate from the SAPS. This involves training on the use, handling, law and other aspects of your particular firearm category. Then using that, you have to apply to the police for competency, where they check your safekeeping facilities and interview at least 3 ppl about your state of mind and suitability. Then your fingerprints are checked for any criminal record. Only then, might they approve your competency.
After this, you can apply for your firearms license. Which can be refused for various reasons anyways. The whole process....about 6 months to a year. Then both your competency and license expire after a certain amount of years, and you have to follow another re licensing process.
Yes, mistakes happen, and there are no guarantees that people don't slip through the cracks. But compare this to getting a drivers license where your vehicle can take out multiple people so very easily with one mistake. And which does.....hundreds of times more a year than firearms.
Not saying it it impossible to get a license, but saying that we need tighter laws or proficiency tests is simply not accurate.

This father made a mistake. The firearm wasn't to blame. He has to live with the consequences and a young girl is dead. I doubt we would be debating much if the OP had instead posted about one of the many people that died on the roads today due to an accident. Are they not important?

G26

[porchrat]

You do understand the current process to receive a gun license, right?
You have to first obtain a competency certificate from the SAPS. This involves training on the use, handling, law and other aspects of your particular firearm category. Then using that, you have to apply to the police for competency, where they check your safekeeping facilities and interview at least 3 ppl about your state of mind and suitability. Then your fingerprints are checked for any criminal record. Only then, might they approve your competency.
After this, you can apply for your firearms license. Which can be refused for various reasons anyways. The whole process....about 6 months to a year. Then both your competency and license expire after a certain amount of years, and you have to follow another re licensing process.
Yes, mistakes happen, and there are no guarantees that people don't slip through the cracks. But compare this to getting a drivers license where your vehicle can take out multiple people so very easily with one mistake. And which does.....hundreds of times more a year than firearms.
Not saying it it impossible to get a license, but saying that we need tighter laws or proficiency tests is simply not accurate.

This father made a mistake. The firearm wasn't to blame. He has to live with the consequences and a young girl is dead. I doubt we would be debating much if the OP had instead posted about one of the many people that died on the roads today due to an accident. Are they not important?

G26
Have you actually been through this process?

I ask because if your local cops actually bothered to perform every single step you have mentioned then I am impressed.

[Glock26]

Yes, I have been through the process multiple times. Yes...they have to perform each step. The application forms require reports on each process.
People can lie about drug addictions or personal issues...but the physical things such as training, safekeeping, criminal record and interviews are pretty well handled. As i said, you can still work the system..but that goes for anything in SA and the average person does not have the resources.

G26

[ponder]

No, of course not all. But the question was regarding the causes of crime, and I maintain that this criminality is caused by this effect, which is far more widespread in Africa than other (more first world) places.

It's not only first world places. There are many people way poorer in the world than those in SA (or have gone through endless wars) yet they don't behave in such manner.

[Fudzy]

It's not only first world places. There are many people way poorer in the world than those in SA (or have gone through endless wars) yet they don't behave in such manner.

Like Mexico?

[Mouse]

Like Mexico?

India comes to mind.

[cerebus]

To be really bloody frank he should go to prison because he killed his own daughter. He didn't handle his own firearms properly, got trigger happy, and made an absolutely catastrophic mistake. If I put a bullet through my own child, no matter the circumstances, I'm responsible for his death.

[Hemps]

I was having a discussion with the wife on the crime issues we find ourselves in, our security gate to the complex broke again so you have to manually push the gate open and closed this weekend.
That brought it up as there where some lurkers near our gate who could clearly see everyone get out and open and close it, called the police and they did a drive by and told them to move.

I'm pretty paranoid about security in my home now more than ever since our child was born, all doors get locked as soon as it get's dark, dogs come into house, rooms we don't need access to are locked, windows get closed when we go to bed.
Sleep with knife in drawer next to my bed, pick handle in cupboard at arms reach.
I usually go to sleep last so do my rounds and check that everything is locked.
The wife is not so obsessed as I am about security, get home things like security gate is open, she doesn't re-lock doors I have locked etc.

We where up on her parents farm beginning April for a visit, the one evening wind was blowing strong, the dogs went ape and started barking, her old man looks out the window and spots that the garage door is open, it's about 100m away from farmhouse.
Calmly get's up and goes to take a look, I'm thinking bud you don't know whats there but everyone seems lax about it, his son was there but just carries on watching TV whilst his dad wants to go and have a look, could of been anything out there in the dark.

I pitch up and follow him, it was dark and we only had a torch, wind was howling so even we got into some sort of trouble and shouted, doubt anyone could hear us, no weapons in hand.

Luckily turns out wind had just blown garage door open.
Closed and returned to house.

Just worries me that people can be so lax about security?
Even my parents are the same, hear a noise and investigate by going outside.

I think a certain degree of paranoia in this country will keep you safe.

[RaptorSA]

Holy sh**! This is awful!
This guy's life is pretty much over. Living hell.

[Geriatrix]

I think a certain degree of paranoia in this country will keep you safe.
+1
Exactly. You need to look at your own home and plan what you would do in any eventuality. Picture it, plan it. And if you have firearms, for the love of God, know how to handle them and do go ****ing shooting anything like a NY cop when something moves or whistles.

[YingYang]

I don't know what would happen if I was in this man's situation! :cry:

[porchrat]

Yes, I have been through the process multiple times. Yes...they have to perform each step. The application forms require reports on each process.
People can lie about drug addictions or personal issues...but the physical things such as training, safekeeping, criminal record and interviews are pretty well handled. As i said, you can still work the system..but that goes for anything in SA and the average person does not have the resources.

G26
Oh I'm sure the cops have the paperwork. I'm saying they don't necessarily perform each step they claim to have performed with that paperwork. If your cops actually interviewed your character witnesses and came and inspected your safe then colour me impressed.

[Geriatrix]

Oh I'm sure the cops have the paperwork. I'm saying they don't necessarily perform each step they claim to have performed with that paperwork. If your cops actually interviewed your character witnesses and came and inspected your safe then colour me impressed.
They did mine. Telephonically at least.

[porchrat]

They did mine. Telephonically at least.
Please tell me you mean they inspected your safe over the phone so that I can have a big old laugh. :D

[Geriatrix]

Please tell me you mean they inspected your safe over the phone so that I can have a big old laugh. :D
:D
Nooo, but you can laugh anyway.

[porchrat]

:D
Nooo, but you can laugh anyway.
Jokes aside I am impressed. I wouldn't have thought cops would go through all those steps.