Load Shedding - the all in one thread

[Moederloos]

Within 3 years, there won't be any big business left to draw power.
So, problem solved - Africa style.

[cyberarmy]

Power cut tonight from maybe sometime around 6pm till just now, Dunkeld near Rosebank in Joburg....

[The_Techie]

We had power cuts from 08:00 - 10:30, 14:00 - 16:30 and 18:00 - 20:30 :sick:

[Moederloos]

We had power cuts from 08:00 - 10:30, 14:00 - 16:30 and 18:00 - 20:30 :sick:

Just save yourself time, and list when you had power rather.
:D

[The_Techie]

Just save yourself time, and list when you had power rather.
:D

:(

Need to buy a generator this weekend...

[cyberarmy]

We had power cuts from 08:00 - 10:30, 14:00 - 16:30 and 18:00 - 20:30 :sick:

:mad: Been to Sandton yesterday and today in the morning for meetings, ppl told me they got constant power cuts, and I saw lots of robots not working!! Economic hub of Africa? Looks more like economic gat of AFRICA.

[Prometheus]

One night in the not too distant future with the whole world watching...

Commentator1: It's nearly half time! Hope he can pull it off.
Commentator2: I'm sure he can. This will be the equalizer!
Commentator1: Only five seconds left...
*pitch black*
Commentator2: What was that? Space aliens?
Commentator1: No. I think it's Eskom again... :rolleyes:

[Moederloos]

One night in the not too distant future with the whole world watching...

Commentator1: It's nearly half time! Hope he can pull it off.
Commentator2: I'm sure he can. This will be the equalizer!
Commentator1: Only five seconds left...
*pitch black*
Commentator2: What was that? Space aliens?
Commentator1: No. I think it's Eskom again... :rolleyes:

I wonder if this counts as the mammoth disaster that will prevent us from hosting the WC?

[icyrus]

I wonder if this counts as the mammoth disaster that will prevent us from hosting the WC?

We have enough power to run the stadiums, if nothing else. There is too much money at stake for fifa to consider moving it. Nothing short of civil war will change that.

[Moederloos]

We have enough power to run the stadiums, if nothing else. There is too much money at stake for fifa to consider moving it. Nothing short of civil war will change that.

Please do not say that - I still predict one. Soon.

[Peon]

Something is going to have to give, I cant see this behaviour continuing for another 2 years let alone 7. Eskom could answer alot more if allowed I suspect...

There is a small issue. If government was told about this impending problem in 2000/2001 why did they not act? Eskoms request for funding was denied, or so we told.

How is it that government neither Eskom publicly stated in 8 years time we expect to experience cronic power shortages and power outages. They did not give a warning of what we experiencing.

So now if I run a business, from 2001 I could budget and prepare for the eventual power crunch in a few years time. I could of made contingency plans.

[Abe]

Something is going to have to give, I cant see this behaviour continuing for another 2 years let alone 7. Eskom could answer alot more if allowed I suspect...

I don't buy their whole story. There is something they are not telling us. There is no way they can have enough power for Winter and then run so short in Summer unless they are selling the power off elsewhere.

[Rozier]

What gets me about all these power cuts is that Eskom is happy to carry on supplying power to neighbouring countries and turn off the local power. We really need figures on how much is being exported.

Frankly I don't see anything getting better until Eskom and it's shareholders start feeling an impact on their pockets.

I am GATVOL with this loadshedding!!! We should stop supplying power to neighbouring countries. This country is deteriorating at a rapid rate as it is. How many candles does it take to watch a world cup soccer match ( not that I really care as I don't watch soccer myself)::mad:

[Moederloos]

I don't buy their whole story. There is something they are not telling us. There is no way they can have enough power for Winter and then run so short in Summer unless they are selling the power off elsewhere.

Or they have damaged some stations by over-running them in winter.

[Muffen Man]

As far as i can tell, Koberg is being refueled at the momemt, so they need to draw power down from the northern provinces to us out here in CT :D

They said the load sheading is going to continue for a couple of years, as they planning to build another nuclear power station, which will take forever. If Neotel is a benchmark, expect delays from crappy excuses.

And any enviromental jockie saying that nuclear power is bad and blah blah. I'd rather have nuclear power than coal power stations. Eskom had a wind power project and it was found to be unfeasible.

So GO NUCLEAR!!!!!!

[marine1]

Funny the ANC crowd are very quiet.

[Moederloos]

Funny the ANC crowd are very quiet.

They have been for some time.
It would take real courage to try and spin something positive from the mess their party got this country into.

[marine1]

We are so ****ed here.

[Moederloos]

We are so ****ed here.

One day we will all look back on this and be thankful.
Thankful that we were pushed to leave this godforsaken continent and lead real, positive, constructive lives elsewhere.

[NoADSLyet]

They have been for some time.
It would take real courage to try and spin something positive from the mess their party got this country into.

They are just as stupid as is the government members running the country. "No brains, No pain" the usual excuses will apply of course. I would like to bring back a few old arguments of the past where they were so adamant that we will never end up in such a situation, The economy and riches (Although false) and the surplus is better than ever (Of course if you do not spend the money where is counts). No effective schools, No effective police, No effective medical system no effective governance? Etc. What an debate that will be! :D

Back to power. They and their cronies created the situation and they do not know what to do. IMHO the current JSE and Rand woes is just a small jitter of whats to come. Investors is starting to realize that this country is no different from the rest of Africa, basically in bed and one and the same as Zimbabwe. They realized they are dealing with Robert Mbeki and Thabo Mugabe. ( why does that have such a nice ring to it?) Blood-brothers!

[Moederloos]

They realized they are dealing with Robert Mbeki and Thabo Mugabe. ( why does that have such a nice ring to it?) Blood-brothers!

I call them Mugabeki.
:D

[DigitalSoldier]

We had power cuts from 08:00 - 10:30, 14:00 - 16:30 and 18:00 - 20:30 :sick:

Also in Krugersdorp area, we have power cuts from 08:00 - 10:30, 14:00 - 16:30 and from 20:00 - 23:00 power just came back on now.

beanie, any idea where I can get a list of what times the power will go out ? I was at the doctor today and he had a list with the time and date of every power cut.

[DigitalSoldier]

I call them Mugabeki.
:D

ROFL!!! :D

[NoADSLyet]

I call them Mugabeki.
:D

Oh So eMbekeki is a clone of Mugabe and Kie and a poor copy at that too, so its is a Mugabeki. Also defect, so I get the drift! :)

[MyWorld]

Ohhh, lets say that somewhere in the past, lets make it 1996 the government of a country told the national power supplier that they are going to privatise and that they should sell off all excess power.

Now lets say that company did just that thinking of $$$ instead of thinking of the future...the government can't be wrong, they were democratically elected, they know what they are doing with all their analysts and stuff!

Now lets take a jump into the future to say 2001 and now the government of that country suddenly turns around and ask that same power company to be the sole provider of power again. Now imagine the chaos that would face that country... all the plans for the future were scrapped in 96, all excess power were sold, contracts with say a neighboring country (along with all the excess oil) and now we need to see that country through again...

10 years to build and commision a power station, all the while the demand is growing, all the while we are being fed lies by a red faced political party.

Now that is a plot for a horror movie, just wait till the bad guys in the script catch on that no alarms or security is possible once there is a load shed and we have a dark, dark future ahead (pun intended)...

But what do we know, I just know the one that wrote and read the script to me...

[stefan9]

One day we will all look back on this and be thankful.
Thankful that we were pushed to leave this godforsaken continent and lead real, positive, constructive lives elsewhere.

Jip the only sort of positive thing from this situation is another indicator of why I should get out of here as fast as I can.

[AirWolf]

At work we were down from 8 am to 10.30 am and again from 2 pm to 4 pm. At home we were down from 6 pm to 8 pm :sick:

Watched a dvd on my laptop at home. When the electricity came back on my battery was just about dead.

[Road runner]

Hmm.. And whose gonna pay for all the load shedding babies? :) LOL! In 40 years time we will have the results of a new baby boom! *The load shedders!*

[Robin Hood]

Hey guys...Where can i find out exactly WHAT "Stage" a town is in??...I got all the times of the power-cuts, but cant find anything about the "Stages"...ie Brown Stage 1A, Brown Stage 2A, etc etc.

[eltherza]

Hey guys...Where can i find out exactly WHAT "Stage" a town is in??...I got all the times of the power-cuts, but cant find anything about the "Stages"...ie Brown Stage 1A, Brown Stage 2A, etc etc.

You cant really... eskom site is the most confusing. Best way i found was to check news24 traffic reports and see "traffic lights out due to shedding"

[Moederloos]

So, my main server - the one I use to connect to the all the company's servers - is stuffed.

Thank you ANC, thank you eksdom.
That is a week's work now - and probably R5-10K in hardware.

O - and the wife is back home, turned around and said "stuff that".
Took 20 mins to go 800m, because all the robots are out.

Kaching! more money in the economy lost.

[fivelza]

O - and the wife is back home, turned around and said "stuff that".
Took 20 mins to go 800m, because all the robots are out.


Did exactly the same!

[Jase]

Woah, never heard so many swear words floating down the corridor at once ... dem ladies is really cross with Eskom this morning.

[Sneeky]

Load Shedding - the all in one thread

POWER CUTS ffs
:mad:

[CathJ]

Back to power. They and their cronies created the situation and they do not know what to do. IMHO the current JSE and Rand woes is just a small jitter of whats to come. Investors is starting to realize that this country is no different from the rest of Africa, basically in bed and one and the same as Zimbabwe. They realized they are dealing with Robert Mbeki and Thabo Mugabe. ( why does that have such a nice ring to it?) Blood-brothers!

Actually, I'm fairly sure that most of the JSE and Rand woes are related to the global economy, not the South African one - the subprime crisis was a major blow to our stock market, and the worries that the US is heading into a recession is just depressing the global market further.

What will affect us is if S&P downgrade Eskom's rating, but at the moment it's really international factors that are affecting us the most.

[icyrus]

Actually, I'm fairly sure that most of the JSE and Rand woes are related to the global economy, not the South African one - the subprime crisis was a major blow to our stock market, and the worries that the US is heading into a recession is just depressing the global market further.

What will affect us is if S&P downgrade Eskom's rating, but at the moment it's really international factors that are affecting us the most.

How long do you think this current level of load-shedding can go on before it has a critical effect on our economy? Already companies have lost millions.

[Moederloos]

How long do you think this current level of load-shedding can go on before it has a critical effect on our economy? Already companies have lost millions.

A month.
Just long enough for the first dominoes to fall.
Small businesses like Tannie Marie's Hairdresser, then the momentum builds.
She goes out of business, so do her staff. They now cannot pay their bills, so their "suppliers" lose money, then they cannot stay in business.
Ad Nauseum.

[CathJ]

How long do you think this current level of load-shedding can go on before it has a critical effect on our economy? Already companies have lost millions.

It will have an impact, for sure. I was just don't think that the current market issues are related to this, yet.

[j4ck455]

Any overseas company considering starting up a call centre here is likely to take their business elsewhere, and what happened to Thabo's 10 buddies in a PIC business park in the Karoo that are now supposed to be receiving Telkom discounts for being call centres, or is that area exempt from load shedding? :rolleyes:

[Moederloos]

Well, at least after all this, the ANC will lose the next elections. Who in their right mind will vote for them?


BWAHAHAHAA

TIA

[Sebs]

Well, I hope none of you okies get toothache in the next seven years. My dentist had no electricty this morning so I had to skip my checkup. Tough drollies for those who really need treatment.

[Robin Hood]

...just shows you what happens when you put a lot of "paluka's" in charge...Apparently SA provides ZIM with power, who in turn sell it to Mozambique...So, in actual fact, the monies that are lost due to "power cuts", YOU actually give to ZIM....How come???...Because if WE had ZIM's ( actually OUR ) power, we would'nt have to lose so much monies...makes u think, eh? :(

[nauseous_monkey]

I have read there will now be an inquiry into load-shedding. Pretty good Idea. Hope they discover that there was some calculation error and that it isn't really nesesary ;) But that's just wishful thinking.

[Moederloos]

I have read there will now be an inquiry into load-shedding. Pretty good Idea. Hope they discover that there was some calculation error and that it isn't really nesesary ;) But that's just wishful thinking.

A committee will be formed to decide on how to structure the committee that will determine which BEE company will be given the tender to outsource the inquiry.

[nauseous_monkey]

A committee will be formed to decide on how to structure the committee that will determine which BEE company will be given the tender to outsource the inquiry.

lmao:D

[Koloni]

This load shedding thing is a problem for big companies

[feo]

This load shedding thing is a problem for big companies
Ummmm thanks for that but I would think that's a well known fact by now.

[Sebs]

Load shedding is a good thing.
Load shedding is a renewable resource.

[Abe]

Apparently SA provides ZIM with power

Probably because thats where our president is at the moment. Instead of sorting out his own back yard (Eskom), he is out of the country.

[Moederloos]

Probably because thats where our president is at the moment. Instead of sorting out his own back yard (Eskom), he is out of the country.

Probably has a show he did not want to miss.
;):D

[vespax]

...just shows you what happens when you put a lot of "paluka's" in charge...Apparently SA provides ZIM with power, who in turn sell it to Mozambique...So, in actual fact, the monies that are lost due to "power cuts", YOU actually give to ZIM....How come???...Because if WE had ZIM's ( actually OUR ) power, we would'nt have to lose so much monies...makes u think, eh? :(

I refer you to this thread with the link inside.

Zim Power - Load Shedding (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=100539)

I don't think you can blame Zim and Mozim for the troubles in SA currently. They are more screwed, well Mozim with flooding and Zim with well... NOTHING!


Probably because thats where our president is at the moment. Instead of sorting out his own back yard (Eskom), he is out of the country.


Isn't that the way of T-bone? Ignore problems at home and solve Africa's problems. Can anyone tell my why T-bone has been a good president for this country? :confused:

[gt67]

Revert to 110Volts as in USA, surely 220volts divided by 2 equals 50% more power and no freakin load shedding!!!!

[Highflyer_GP]

Revert to 110Volts as in USA, surely 220volts divided by 2 equals 50% more power and no freakin load shedding!!!!
P = VI

[vespax]

Revert to 110Volts as in USA, surely 220volts divided by 2 equals 50% more power and no freakin load shedding!!!!


P = VI

Some electrical engineer want to explain this? :confused:

To be honest, I have thought the same thing myself, it it actually works that way... ;)

[Highflyer_GP]

Some electrical engineer want to explain this? :confused:

To be honest, I have thought the same thing myself, it it actually works that way... ;)

1 VoltageAmpere = 1 Watt. Halving the voltage supply would effectively halve the power output. Doesn't make a difference though because the current drawn by the load would adjust accordingly (V = IR). This is why appliances are usually either designed for 110V or 220V. 110V/220V appliances aren't compatible in country's with a 220V/110V supply, unless you use a transformer to step it up/down.

[vespax]

So what you are saying is it is not a solution. 110 or 220 still requires the same amount out of the power stations.

Thank GP.

[Highflyer_GP]

110 or 220 still requires the same amount out of the power stations.

Thank GP.
Well not quite, dropping to 110V means that the power generated would be cut in half as well. We'd then have to run 110V appliances, which would draw half the current. So what we have is a situation where the population consumes less current, but at the same time being stuck with half the power generating capacity. So basically yeah it works out to the same thing, because while changing to 220V would double the power capacity, using it would also draw twice the current.

[Robin Hood]

Uh??...What happened??...After hearing about all the complains against Escom on RSG at 14h00, suddenly we have no power cuts here in KZN ( touch wood )....How come?

[Robin Hood]

Probably because thats where our president is at the moment. Instead of sorting out his own back yard (Eskom), he is out of the country.

Yep...Apparently ( so i have heard...donno if its true ) he ( mandela ) was partly/fully trained in ZIM as a "terrorist/freedom fighter"....Like i say...Weather this is true, i have no idea...

[Ozymandias]

So what you are saying is it is not a solution. 110 or 220 still requires the same amount out of the power stations.

Eskom doesn’t charge you for amperage or voltage, they charge you for wattage. They bill you in kilowatt-hour units. Halving the voltage fom 220v down to 110v doubles the current (amperage) for a constant power (wattage) output. eg. Watts = Amps x Volts or 1100W = 10A x 110V or 1100W = 5A x 220V. The resulting increase in current would require a larger wire - The gauge and length of the wire will determine the maximum amperage it will handle before it melts.

[Robin Hood]

Geez....Look at this :(
http://www.poweralert.co.za/poweralert3/index.php?location=online%23info_top&Session_ID=0ad16c38fe4478f84333096a5403f6ad#info_t op

Looks like koeberg is major overloaded...

[infogeek]

Hi all. My name is eskom. im a serial Killer.My trade mark crime is to cut electricity. i strike at any time, im the most wanted of all time .

i have a few questions for you people:
a) What is the first word that comes to your head, when i strike ?
b) What would you do if you find me ?

truly yours
eskum
bringing you light Temporarily

[Voldemort]

a) major Chagraine:mad:
b) i actually park at the pub with a couple o the buggers:p

[bodhi]

a) disbelief
b) eat you with some fava beans and a nice Chianti

[Ozymandias]

Geez....Look at this :(
http://www.poweralert.co.za/poweralert3/index.php?location=online%23info_top&Session_ID=0ad16c38fe4478f84333096a5403f6ad#info_t op

Looks like koeberg is major overloaded...

The Eskom website says that we currently have a power shortfall of 2 500 MW. Given that the national supply capacity is about 38 500 MW, demand is exceeding capacity by 6.5%.

[theStudent]

a) Hope the generators kick in (with UPS for the interval)
b) Tear up your fat R1mill a month pay-cheque (if the ceo)

[ubberfunk]

Geez....Look at this :(
http://www.poweralert.co.za/poweralert3/index.php?location=online%23info_top&Session_ID=0ad16c38fe4478f84333096a5403f6ad#info_t op

Looks like koeberg is major overloaded...

doesnt take a rockert scientist to figure out what will happen if it went bang!! SA will be a very quite place for the next couple thousand years!!

[abjater]

Why does nearly all the graphs on poweralert look so alike? Or is my firefox cache'ing it! :-P
linky: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=1449613&postcount=11

[Warped]

Why does nearly all the graphs on poweralert look so alike? Or is my firefox cache'ing it! :-P
linky: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=1449613&postcount=11

Agreed - the national and regional graphs are consistently identical.:confused:

[NoADSLyet]

The Eskom website says that we currently have a power shortfall of 2 500 MW. Given that the national supply capacity is about 38 500 MW, demand is exceeding capacity by 6.5%.


And we export how much?



On Thursday, trade union Solidarity said it had obtained information that Eskom was exporting 3 000 MW of electricity to neighbouring countries.

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=816390

South Africa suffer at the expense off? Freaking Government idiots!

[HavocXphere]

doesnt take a rockert scientist to figure out what will happen if it went bang!! SA will be a very quite place for the next couple thousand years!!
No. Koeberg is a rod type reactor. If the shyte hits the fan then they drop the rods and the reaction dies. If you want to stress about something the stress about the pebble bed reactor. AFAIK those cannot be shut down as easily in case of emergency.:eek:

Also nuclear reactors don't explode like a nuclear bomb.

[Ozymandias]

And we export how much?

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=816390

South Africa suffer at the expense off? Freaking Government idiots!

I still can't see how we are going to get out of this mess. Eskom reckons that demand increases by 1 200 MW per year which would mean building a nuclear plant the size of Koeberg (1 800 MW) every 18 months. It takes 10 years from the decision to build a new power station until it is completed and capable of being connected to the national grid. Then we have the problem of existing power stations coming to the end of their economic life and need replacing. Add to the that another 3.5% of our capacity going to Alcan's Aliminium smelter in 2010. The only way I see capacity catching up with demand is to slow industrial growth to a stand still over the next decade. No electricity means that this an inevitability




Coega still in pipeline despite capacity questions (http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=816390)

Aluminium smelters are Eskom's largest energy consumers. At 1 350 megawatts, the Coega smelter will use about 3.5 percent of Eskom's available power capacity while the utility will battle to supply its other industrial and municipal customers.

[blunomore]

REGARDLESS of how long any CEO has been in office, if a major catastrophe like the current Eskom one happens during his/her tenure, it is the RIGHT thing to do to STEP DOWN AS CEO.

Why? Because the CEO is the person ultimately responsible for the performance of company and MUST ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURES.

Just saying in case he is reading here ;)

[infogeek]

why was this thread moved ???

[Gnome]

I still can't see how we are going to get out of this mess. Eskom reckons that demand increases by 1 200 MW per year

Seriously 1.2GW? Seems a bit much to me but I guess rapid expansion can cause it...

These "load sheds" are becoming a bit much, power has been off at our place everyday now from 1pm to 6pm !!! :eek:

Wonder if it's going to continue like that week in and week out

[ic]

why was this thread moved ???Welcome to the sticky Load Shedding thread which is an amalgamation of numerous Load Shedding threads and currently has 576 posts to its name.

[Moederloos]

REGARDLESS of how long any CEO has been in office, if a major catastrophe like the current Eskom one happens during his/her tenure, it is the RIGHT thing to do to STEP DOWN AS CEO.

Why? Because the CEO is the person ultimately responsible for the performance of company and MUST ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURES.

Just saying in case he is reading here ;)

I disagree.

However, my disagreement comes with a proviso.
The CEO must have concrete plans, with well defined goals and objectives, and he must be ensuring these plans are being followed.

And by that, I do not mean "yeah, we are going to build a new power station or two and hopefully that will solve the problem".

[Soulsnatcher]

Anyone know if there is truth in the story that Eskom exports electricity that = one full power station output to Zimbabwe for free???

[Muffen Man]

The Government said they don't export electricity, or they export "very little". If the Government says it, it must be true!

[Moederloos]

Anyone know if there is truth in the story that Eskom exports electricity that = one full power station output to Zimbabwe for free???

I doubt it - even if they wanted to, I do not think Zim has power cables left to carry it anyway.

[CathJ]

Some useless comments on busrep about the loadshedding:


# My thoughts are:

# Why not totally withhold electricity supplies to residential areas between the hours of 8am and 5pm daily?

# Keep businesses (particularly at shopping centres) operational during the above periods.


# Cut off power supply to shopping centres after the daytime shopping time, from 6pm to 8am.

Let's face it, most shoppers prefer not to shop when there is no electricity supply, for fear that when they return home they will discover that they have been burglarised.

In the evenings, most households are trying to prepare meals for their families and do laundry without electricity, while shopping centres are drawing maximum power.

Am I being illogical? (http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=553&fArticleId=4210932)

Yes, he is being illogical! Clearly he has a very structured schedule, and doesn't think about:
1) People who work from home;
2) People with children;
3) Schools and businesses in residential areas;
4) People who need to go shopping after work

And to join the MyADSL Grammar Nazis (which I've been struggling really, really hard not to do) - burglarized? Really? What's wrong with good old 'burgled' or 'robbed'?

[Moederloos]

Some useless comments on busrep about the loadshedding:



Yes, he is being illogical! Clearly he has a very structured schedule, and doesn't think about:
1) People who work from home;
2) People with children;
3) Schools and businesses in residential areas;
4) People who need to go shopping after work

And to join the MyADSL Grammar Nazis (which I've been struggling really, really hard not to do) - burglarized? Really? What's wrong with good old 'burgled' or 'robbed'?

Fridges defrosting. Domestics doing ironing etc. The fact that shopping centres are on the same grid as the houses.

In fact, I don't think he thought much at all.

[sand_man]

Anyone know if there is truth in the story that Eskom exports electricity that?
yeah apparently it's a reciprocal deal with some of our neighbours, they help us and we help them but I would imagine we helping them a whole lot more...

[Paulr]

Fridges defrosting. Domestics doing ironing etc. The fact that shopping centres are on the same grid as the houses.

In fact, I don't think he thought much at all.

The list goes on and on.....

-Pensioners who stay at home
-People who's gardeners use electric lawnmowers etc.
-Schools (my step-son's high school had it's 2hrs of no power every day so far, in the mornings, when all the kids are in class

And my personal rant: How many times now have we had power cuts from 6pm to 8pm... Makes it a bit difficult when you come home from work and want to cook your family a decent meal... And do the washing etc. for the next day...

[ajax]

Just heard on KFM news that Koeberg has not been shut down yet, but it will be next week and that the load shedding in CT will be worse than this week! :(

[ginggs]

I had to drive to the Cape Town international airport this morning at 07:30. I took the M12 through Elsies River and past Bishop Lavis. All the traffic lights from Jan Smuts Road to the airport weren't functioning, on my route that was about 10 of them. Some of the trickier ones had traffic officers directing traffic. Surprisingly, it turned out to be quicker than when the lights are working.

I reckon the city should switch off all the traffic lights and employ more traffic officers. It will save electricity and reduce unemployment, and improve peak-time traffic congestion.

When the lights are working, there's always some clown who enters the intersection as the lights change, preventing the people, for whom the lights have just turned green, from moving. Also, you have filters when there are no cars waiting, or people trying to stretch the filters by another two or three cars. With the traffic officers directing you don't have these problems, even the mini-bus taxi drivers were behaving.

[ic]

I doubt it - even if they wanted to, I do not think Zim has power cables left to carry it anyway.I disagree - ZimBobWee most likely has a lot of copper cables originally stolen from South Africa.

[abjater]

We're exporting about that amount. So if we STOP to supply the rest of Africa, our problems are over. Unless my calculator is misfiring. Or we were given wrong figures.

[Moederloos]

We're exporting about that amount. So if we STOP to supply the rest of Africa, our problems are over. Unless my calculator is misfiring. Or we were given wrong figures.

"our problems are over" for a few months.
That "windfall" will only last a while, and then increased demand will overtake us again.

But yes - cut off the deadbeats.

[abjater]

....Why? Because the CEO is the person ultimately responsible for the performance of company and MUST ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURES.

Just saying in case he is reading here ;)

If we were in an industrialised country like Germany, it would be the default action for the CEO to resign with immediate effect.
If we were in Imperial Japan, it would be expected of the CEO to complete a 'harakiri' ritual in the boardroom. How strong are those countries' economies?
Since we're in Africa .... will anything happen whatsoever? Besides some whishy whashy lies about the situation, and us beign told to deal with it!

[abjater]

BTW: Government (being the ultimate controlling entity/owner of Eskom - as per the Eskom website) should actively step in and DO some serious rectifying of the problem. If it means sacking the CEO and board of Eskom, or selling Eskom to an international company that has (a) the money to grow (b) the expertise to run it, and (c) the will to be a reliable supplier of services. Eskom is lacking all 3 of the above. Its unfair of Gov to expect service delivery from Municipalities, but not forcing the Municipalities' major supplier to do the same.
I heard a seriously disturbing rumour that Eishkom is lacking skills - the old men who built the national system were given early retirements (got snatched up by international corporations), leaving our dearest Creator if Darkness literally in the dark - no planning or engineering skills, or the know-how on running our system. Lets be honest about it - apartheid was a good thing, S.A. was forced to teach itself in many aspects, develop its own stuff. Now those people are gone. Leaving us with ........

[Praeses]

Anyone know if there is truth in the story that Eskom exports electricity that = one full power station output to Zimbabwe for free???

readme.txt (http://www.thezimbabwetimes.com/page270.htm)

[Ozymandias]

REGARDLESS of how long any CEO has been in office, if a major catastrophe like the current Eskom one happens during his/her tenure, it is the RIGHT thing to do to STEP DOWN AS CEO.

Why? Because the CEO is the person ultimately responsible for the performance of company and MUST ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURES.

Just saying in case he is reading here ;)

In 1998, the government instructed Eskom to stop building new power stations. This ban was lifted in 2004. The idea behind this was to liberalise the market and increase competition in the electricity sector. Eskom was to sell 30% of its capacity to independent power suppliers. However, no independents took the bite as there was no viable return on investment. The government took 6-7 years to wake up to the fact that nobody was coming to the party, but as we all now know, this far too late. Our current esteemed deputy president, Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka, was minister of of minerals and energy during most of this period.

The buck ultimately stops with the government but I can't see how this exonerates Eskom from equal blame. Strategic planners (if they had any) should have argued their case with the government and brought them to their senses. But that's history now. Hello darkness my dear old friend.

[HavocXphere]

If we were in an industrialised country like Germany, it would be the default action for the CEO to resign with immediate effect.
If we were in Imperial Japan, it would be expected of the CEO to complete a 'harakiri' ritual in the boardroom.
I believe assisted harakiri is also acceptable under Japanese tradition if the person has lived an honourable life. The honourable part is a bit of a problem here but I think we can make an exception just this once.:D

[Moederloos]

Just as long as assisted suicide is not by means of The Chair.

[infogeek]

post here now....
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=101577

[The_Librarian]

Eskom's CEO's salaries should be loadshedded as well :D

As the Minister of Energy's as well :D

[Omac]

http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/showphoto.php?photo=2196&cat=500

[Paulr]

Tshwane Metro decided today to have 6 hr outages... Went to visit my parents in Pta and what a stuff up on the roads. Robots out everywhere!

http://www.tshwane.gov.za/interruptions.cfm

[The_Librarian]

Geez....Look at this :(
http://www.poweralert.co.za/poweralert3/index.php?location=online%23info_top&Session_ID=0ad16c38fe4478f84333096a5403f6ad#info_t op

Looks like koeberg is major overloaded...

Is there something like that for Gautengia?

[The_Librarian]

Tshwane Metro decided today to have 6 hr outages... Went to visit my parents in Pta and what a stuff up on the roads. Robots out everywhere!

http://www.tshwane.gov.za/interruptions.cfm

Why? WHY?????

Some ******* prolly want to keep a constant supply of power to his ****** palace? :mad:

[vespax]

Got sheaded on today. Twice this week, and I thought I lived in a good area for the cuts. :(

[ic]

Is there something like that for Gautengia?What do you mean? - just click on the Gautenglia region...

[cyberarmy]

http://www.eskom.co.za/live/loadshed.php?Item_ID=5523 LS schedule. Just found it don't know if you guys got it or not.

[infogeek]

all load shedding here: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=101577

[feo]

I've been shedded (shed?) on: let's see here now..

Saturday
Sunday
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Friday

yay for me...:mad:

[ic]

all load shedding here: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=101577You are now spamming this thread in an attempt to advertise your alternative thread.

[bodhi]

DVD shop is closed due to load shedding...

damm you Eskom :mad:

[The_Librarian]

You are now spamming this thread in an attempt to advertise your alternative thread.

lock?

[feo]

lock?
delete?

:D

[hj2k_x]

Down again in CT CBD. Same time as yesterday and then up again after about 30 mins...

[sand_man]

If we were in an industrialised country like Germany, it would be the default action for the CEO to resign with immediate effect.
If we were in Imperial Japan, it would be expected of the CEO to complete a 'harakiri' ritual in the boardroom. How strong are those countries' economies?
Since we're in Africa .... will anything happen whatsoever? Besides some whishy whashy lies about the situation, and us beign told to deal with it!
If generators and diesel wasn't so expensive I would encourage every home owner and business owner to invest in 1 and keep them running 24/7 and to hell with Escom... I don't know about harakiri but yes the CEO should be shot!!! Costing the nations bombs!!! There's no way to know exactly but billions and counting!!! IDIOTS!!!

[sand_man]

Apparently a 5kva generator costs around 5k and it's good for lights and 1 or 2 appliances, a single plate on your stove, fridge, tv but no geysers...

[The_Librarian]

Here's hoping that the Minister of Energy will also be loadshedded this weekend...

[BTTB]

Zim's 'free' Eskom power ride (http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?ArticleId=1518-25_2254220)

Nothing we didn't know already, but just rubs more salt into the wounds of the SA Consumer who faces a 14% Tariff Increase for Electricity plus Load Shedding.
All this while the undeserving Mugabe took $100 000 US Dollars over Christmas out of The Zimbabwe Kitty for a nice holiday in The East, yet the Zimbabwe people can't pay for the power they use??:confused::mad:

Something is very wrong here?
How much does Zimbabwe owe South Africa for all sorts of things, yet we must go without Electricity to prop up Mugabe and his cronies while they rape the country with some weird exchange rate privy to only a few.


Information obtained by Solidarity shows that Eskom currently exports 3 000MW of electricity to neighbouring countries. This almost equals the entire output of one SA power station.


"We have also been informed that Zimbabwe does not pay for the electricity supplied to it by Eskom."

[Moederloos]

Zim's 'free' Eskom power ride (http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?ArticleId=1518-25_2254220)

Nothing we didn't know already, but just rubs more salt into the wounds of the SA Consumer who faces a 14% Tariff Increase for Electricity plus Load Shedding.
While the undeserving Mugabe took $100 000 US Dollars over Christmas out of The Zimbabwe Kitty for a nice holiday in The East, but Zimbabwe can't pay for the power they use??:confused::mad:

Something is very wrong here?
How much does Zimbabwe owe South Africa for all sorts of things, yet we must go without Electricity to prop up Mugabe and his cronies while they rape the country with some weird exchange rate privy to only a few.

Even if they did pay - I would still not want to give them anything.
They managed to destroy their country. As if that were not bad enough, our own economy must now suffer too.

It's a bit like throwing your last life preserver to a man who just scuttled his own ship, even though your ship has just sprung a leak.

[hj2k_x]

Even if they did pay - I would still not want to give them anything.
They managed to destroy their country. As if that were not bad enough, our own economy must now suffer too.

It's a bit like throwing your last life preserver to a man who just scuttled his own ship, even though your ship has just sprung a leak.

Good analogy there. Pretty much sums up the whole situation.

[blonde one]

Question: How was South Africa powered before candles?
Answer: We had electricity :(

Jokes aside, the sheer incompetence of the Government is unforgivable!!!!! Surely the "voting public" must now realize that "their Government" are a bunch of tossers!

[NoADSLyet]

Question: How was South Africa powered before candles?
Answer: We had electricity :(

Jokes aside, the sheer incompetence of the Government is unforgivable!!!!! Surely the "voting public" must now realize that "their Government" are a bunch of tossers!

Sorry I strongly disagree. Brainless W@nkers is a more suitable definition, and that fits their voters too!

[marine1]

Anyone who voted for the ANC deserves what they are getting

[sleeper]

Wow, so if Koeberg can generate 1800MW, and according to eskom's website, we are missing 2000MW now (earlier it was 3000MW) - it means we need 2 more Koebergs right NOW(nevermind the fact that they say it is going down next week???). We are utterly and truely fukced !!!!

[DigitalSoldier]

Anyone who voted for the ANC deserves what they are getting

There is a nice quote the ANC supporters normally use in a situation like this.

"It's what the majority wanted"

[Moederloos]

There is a nice quote the ANC supporters normally use in a situation like this.

"It's what the majority wanted"

And there is another well known quote:
"May you get what you deserve"


EDIT:
Damn, this one is quite good, and totally off topic for this thread :D
It is bad to be oppressed by a minority, but it is worse to be oppressed by a majority.

The one that conveys what I wanted to say:
[A] Vote: The instrument and symbol of a free man's power to make a fool of himself and a wreck of his country.

[abjater]

Was in the little town of Bloemhof today, about 300 km's from JHB on the N12. Many of the businesses are refusing to use the supplied power IF/WHEN its on, preferring to keep the gen.sets running. Well, if you have a 2 hour on, 2 hour off cycle every damn day, you tend to think "out of the box". Thats the electrical box on the wall. How many larger businesses who have proper standby plants opted to do same, I wonder.
Also, with the new municipal structures (one name and 2 or 3 towns in the municipality), the IT infrastructure is a central billing system in one town, with the others linking in via different means and methods to it. The scheduling makes that when HeadOffice has power, the others are without, and vice-versa. OK, your electrical bill might not get processed... but so it impacts on many other services too. Never before was there a need for the Municipalities to have massive stand-by systems for this kinda scenario. Bottom line - basic service delivery is also impacted. Did eskom think about that? Muni's not billing consumers, not gettign money, not able to pay the bulk electricity account.

Crisis in the making - fuel shortages. When do the refineries go into shutdown for maintenance? Leaving us powerless, fuel less, hopeless ?

Surely Eishkom should do emergency damage control and stop exporting. Shed the neighbours in time of need, not your own people. That will solve the crisis: 3000 mW spare during peak. We are the most industrialised country in this part of Africa, let those less fortunate live with this shedding.

[The_Librarian]

power better be on in the morning for my kawfeeeeee

*wags finger threateningly at eishkom*

[sand_man]

Surely the "voting public" must now realize that "their Government" are a bunch of tossers!
Actually pre 94 the voting public neither had a vote or electricity:D now they just have a vote... and electricity 20hours a day...

[Moederloos]

Actually pre 94 the voting public neither had a vote or electricity:D now they just have a vote... and electricity 20hours a day...

And its not long before the "vote" is a zim-style one.
You can vote for whoever you like, as long as its Zuma.
And even if you don't, we will fix it for you.

[Moederloos]

http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_2254562

[sand_man]

http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_2254562
Yip the governments short sightedness is going to cost them and the nation bombs!!!

[sand_man]

Anyone who voted for the ANC deserves what they are getting
Yeah problem is anyone who didn't vote for the ANC is getting it too!!!

[Ozymandias]

http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_2254562

Excellent article.

[schitz011]

An aquantance of mine works for OFM and earlier this week one of their presenters took an Eskom lackey to task on air about the current power failures. When repeatedly asked what Eskom were doing to rectify the situation he was stumped. No fekking clue.

Yesterday the station got a call from some Eskom big knob trying to strong arm them to 'stop painting Eksom in a negative light'

I've got news for you Eskom, no one needs to paint you in a negative light, you're doing just fine on your own!

I'm seriously considering not paying my bill this month. If Zim doesn't have to pay then I don't see any reason why I should have to either.

I know this won't actually solve the problem, but **** em, I'm saving up to get the **** out of dodge..

[BTTB]

There's nothing the politicians and bureaucrats can do to speed up the construction of the new power stations although the hot air they generate could be viewed as an alternative energy source.
ROFL :D

[abjater]

Excellent article.

Indeed. We should get them all fired up, the more hot air the better !! :) :D

[schitz011]

Indeed. We should get them all fired up, the more hot air the better !! :) :D

Fired rather..

[JamesR]

Eskom is doing maintenance on the one unit at Koeberg resulting in a 5% shortage of capacity.
The public in SA use 14% of Eskoms total capacity.
The largest single user in SA is BHP Billiton
It's one Alluminium smelter employing less than 2000 people uses 8%
Shutting one factory down while maintenance is carried out would result in there being very few blackouts for the 45000000 other people in SA

[schitz011]

Yes, but we havent got Eskoms balls in a vice with a contract that stipulates guaranteed, uninterrupted power...

Eskom don't give a flying **** about us, so long as they keep getting their pay checks it's all good to them..

Just out of interest, do the townships also suffer from power failures?

[BTTB]

Eskom is doing maintenance on the one unit at Koeberg resulting in a 5% shortage of capacity.
The public in SA use 14% of Eskoms total capacity.
The largest single user in SA is BHP Billiton
It's one Alluminium smelter employing less than 2000 people uses 8%
Shutting one factory down while maintenance is carried out would result in there being very few blackouts for the 45000000 other people in SA
Unit 2. Means 900MW less on the grid.:(
Koeberg's maintenance schedules are set down by law from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), so Eskom hasn't much say in the matter.
Only thing is of concern is the time period. Read it was going to take between 3 and 4 months for maintenance. Usually it is about 2 months and about 3 to 4 days to phase into the National Grid.

[abjater]

schitz011 - I share the question. According to a mate of mine from JHB, regional radio never mentions that townships going off...... "Laat mens dink, nê!"

[DigitalSoldier]

Yes, but we havent got Eskoms balls in a vice with a contract that stipulates guaranteed, uninterrupted power...

Eskom don't give a flying **** about us, so long as they keep getting their pay checks it's all good to them..

Just out of interest, do the townships also suffer from power failures?


I guess if the townships had these "load shedding" problems COSATU would already have orginised a strike somewhere.

[schitz011]

So it's a case of making sure your voter base doesn't suffer at the expense of everyone else?

[Peon]

People, we all very emotional about this. So lets stop and try be rational and asses the situation.

Cathryn mentioned previously the economy angle. The US is approaching recession. Eskoms says stop developments and slow down.

What this means is that the economy is going to suffer greatly, worsened by global problems. You need to develop and grow to sustain. Now that process is going to be ruptured. Its a cascading effect. Im no expert at economical matters but what I understand is that everything is connected. And that when one match burns its lights another and so forth.

So you will have our economy going one way very badly very quickly and the global economy going another, we being unable to change to meet this global shift because we already in sh*t and we just invested a trillion Rand in building power stations that will take 10-15 years. On the other hand our economy: our life blood, will shrink so that being smaller might take the global hit better than a larger economy. Either way I understand it to be playing with fire.

In a nutshell, politicians and groups can jump and shout all they want, but its money and economy that makes the world go round. Assess the situation rationally and you realise the economy is going to be in serious trouble. Eskom *might* get to the finish line, only nothing waiting there for them.

Perhaps someone with a sound knowledge of economics of scale can deliberate on the effect this is will happen. Businesses closing etc,etc we understand. What finer details wont the current regime declare?

[Albereth]

I suggest that this whole power failure is about getting the Chinese in.

We had a moritorium on building more power stations but that ended some years back and no new power stations were built. For that the CEO of Ek's skom should be thrown in jail for sabotage along with Irwin, Phumzile and whoever the current minister of energy is.

T Bone apologised. Well that's admission of incompetence and he should be impeached, vote of no confidence. But we won't do that because we won't have any presidents (deputy of otherwise) and shudder at the thought of the brain surgeon JZ in charge for a few months before he goes off to jail.

Yeah, the Chinese are going to come to the rescue with quick build PB reactors or whatever other nonsense they'll trade for Africa.

You and I are just being made to be seriously inconvenienced so we'll ignore that we'll be giving away our birthright.

Also supports why we shut up when it comes to Zim. That little hell hole has been promised to Beijing and would have already gone that route if the inconvenient MDC hadn't popped up.

[Alan]

As long as it's not those damn imperialist Americans coming to steal our precious resources

[nauseous_monkey]

As long as it's not those damn imperialist Americans coming to steal our precious resources

Indeed very liberal :)

[nauseous_monkey]

I just spoke to a family member working in Johannesburg. I myself am not from there, but was very interested to hear his input on load-shedding from an purely financial point-of-view as he works for a big company there.

He here is the concerns around the water-cooler:

1.) Sanlam and other banking institutions are loosing R 5 billion Rand per day on load-shedding.

2.) Load-shedding happens for three hour periods at least twice a day in SA's economic heart (JHB city) at peak business and production hours, e.g. 9am - 12 pm and again 4pm to about 6pm (round about)

3.) Peak hour load-shedding is costing companies hundreds of millions of rands per day. When the power goes off all production-lines and business stands still.

4.) Load-shedding has now been estimated to continue for the next 5 years.

5.) After speaking to a friend which is an engineer working at Eskom he informs me that people know only half of the problem and that rolling black outs are expected every day!

So lets do some calculations... for everyday for five years banking institutions and companies will be loosing an estimated R 10 to 20 billion Everyday!

Let's assume 10 Billion is lost daily in JHB collectively by big business and banking companies

365 days per year X 5 yrs X 10 Billion (minimum) =
18250 Billion in losses MINIMUM for Business in JHB city.


Predictions for the future based on talking to economists and other business people is the following:

(Consider for a second that we Eskom cannot build new power plants to take care of power needs)

1.) Talks of 2010 going to Germany has risen ( I am not lying... and not trying to talk fear into you here... just a fact)

2.)Fuel prices will be increased.

3.) All products across the board will experience a rise in price (drastically)

4.) Electricity prices will rise by a minimum of 14 % in the next two months.

5.)A large amount of foreign business interests have already shown that it is not willing to invest in SA as a result of load-shedding. Besides large affects to our tourism industry.

Now that I have said all of this... here is Our Problem as South Africans.

South Africans are unwilling to stand their ground, they come to forums like here, the write to the newspapers, the complain on radio in the morning BUT THEY DO NOTHING!

If this happened in England or any other country... Eskom will be drowning in Picketers... Thousands of people would line the streets in protest with signs and loud-speakers. Eskom would most certainly not be treated as well as we are currently treating them. Neither would the Government.

We are giving Eskom and the Government way to little pressure, because inevitably we will be and currently are the victims of their incompetence.

Finally I would like to say: Do not take my word for it... ask a friend on the inside ;)

[BeVonk!]

It seems Africa will always have a master. China seems to be the new master. It may sound crazy to say there is method (a plan) in all this Eskom madness ... but looking at how things are panning out (collapsing/disintegrating/deteriorating) in SA these days I start to get the impression that some crazy theories/warnings of the past were not that crazy at all.

The one thing that stands out for me is the complete failure of policies that promise to give away stuff to unproductive masses to make all seem equal. The cake can produce only so many slices and if there are more mounths to feed than the number of slices the cake can offer then you may just as well give the cake to the dogs. Reality is a b!tch ... and political ideologies that fail to look this b!tch in the eye is doomed for failure.

[Moederloos]

The above does not even take the skill loss into account.
I would think this would have a major escalation effect on your straight line calculations.

What is my personal economic effect for example - I am not a super star, just an average dude - but with 30 years of education and experience. What cost when I pack up and leave?

[Moederloos]

How many South African's does it take to change the light?

Two - one to get the matches and the other to hold the candle.

[Moederloos]

Sigh - I was thinking last night of the pro-ANC camp a few months ago.
How they were justifying shortages to the rapid growth of the economy, and how the shortages themselves proved how well we are doing (suppliers cannot keep pace with the exploding market place blah blah).

Well, here's to progress! Now, our economy is crippled by these shortages.
This whole thing smacks of the isolated farmstead, that has a huge feast, lasting days, just after the final harvest of the year. They all proclaim how well they are doing because they have all this food - and they eat and eat, throw whole joints of beef to the dogs, and party like there is no tomorrow.
Except, there is a tomorrow - and a whole 90 odd more after that one. And they are all winter mornings - and nothing grows...

[Albereth]

I also think that South Africa is used for all sorts of experiments in social engineeering. Look at the education system as an example. Or whether people would be stupid enough to vote in criminals. Or if people would be dumb enough to believe garlic cures AIDS (we all know it stops vampires from biting you).

I may be paranoid but that doesn't mean that they aren't out to get us.

[Moederloos]

You and I are just being made to be seriously inconvenienced so we'll ignore that we'll be giving away our birthright.

Already given away - does not bother me, anymore.

[Debbie]

Yesterday: Load-****ted 6pm-9pm and AGAIN 12am-2am

[sand_man]

And they are all winter mornings...
It's going to be a very scary winter, once Escom has the public used to 2 hour power cuts they will increase to 3 hours and in 5 years time we will be having 6 hour power cuts at a time... I still think Escom needs to employ some Americans to come and fix what they've broken. The yanks are a lot of things but slow is not one of them...

[marine1]

Yeah the big bad Americans

[ajax]

Yesterday: Load-****ted 6pm-9pm and AGAIN 12am-2am


12am-2am???? How the hell can there be a load at that time? On the poweralert website they show the load vs. the time of day, and the load rapidly drops off after 11pm.

[BTTB]

12am-2am???? How the hell can there be a load at that time? On the poweralert website they show the load vs. the time of day, and the load rapidly drops off after 11pm.
Could be quite romantic with a few candles. ;)

[Moederloos]

load shedding at the moment - on a Saturday morning nogal

[BeVonk!]

Already given away - does not bother me, anymore.

What's going on now bothers me. I have a wife and two kids - and these days one is constantly bombarded with the question: How much longer should we stay here? Friends of mine are emigrating to Australia as we speak and they couldn't have had better confirmation of this move than the current load shedding. How many people will remain here in the next 5 to 7 years of expected and growing darkness? The load shedding is one disaster ... but what about the disaster of SA losing skilled people en mass?

But, if it is true that China (or some other new slave master) is waiting to swoop down on the country to "save" it from the brink of disaster ... just before 2010 (how convenient!) ... then I guess Gov is not worried at all. China's biggest export product in future will be highly educated/skilled people (and not just plastic toys). Its far better to export money generating "machines" (sending earnings back home) than plastic junk.

[BeVonk!]

I can now understand why Mbeki want's to stay on longer. No president would want to leave his post with a country in such a terrible mess, not having enough of an opportunity to make it better. What a disaster of a legacy to leave behind.

[Moederloos]

I can now understand why Mbeki want's to stay on longer. No president would want to leave his post with a country in such a terrible mess, not having enough of an opportunity to make it better. What a disaster of a legacy to leave behind.

?
He was the one that got us in this position!
Good riddance - he should have been dumped years ago - that HIV/AIDS fiasco should have been the red card.

[air]

while i feel the amount is certainly huge, I reckon your R5billion per day is very much over inflated.

[Moederloos]

while i feel the amount is certainly huge, I reckon your R5billion per day is very much over inflated.

The Star today quoted an economist at saying R2 billion.
Until another figure is trotted out - that is the one I am going to use.

[BeVonk!]

?
He was the one that got us in this position!
Good riddance - he should have been dumped years ago - that HIV/AIDS fiasco should have been the red card.

Understand that I'm not coming up for Mbeki. He's had two terms in power to correct whatever poor decisions were taken before him. I'm just pointing to what must be a major motivation for him wanting to stay on longer. And ... what comes next ... Zuma rule ... may be the end of the world as we knew it.

[NoADSLyet]

Commuters burn trains. Ahh we are getting pi$$ed off with the load shedding! Pity only when it affects you directly!

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=817395

We should all act like Africans and do a Kenya on this government!

AND BTW Where is the honorary Mr Erwin. Just to prove the ANC cares Fcuckall! For them this is the good life in African style!

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=817393

[Moederloos]

Commuters burn trains. Ahh we are getting pi$$ed off with the load shedding! Pity only when it affects you directly!

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=817395

We should all act like Africans and do a Kenya on this government!

AND BTW Where is the honorary Mr Erwin. Just to prove the ANC cares Fcuckall! For them this is the good life in African style!

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=817393

Mr Erwin is vehemently NOT IN THE BAHAMAS!
According to a quote in the Star.

[nauseous_monkey]

By all means, please do not take me word for it, R 5 billion is just a figure I heard from some guys working on the inside, obviously not a public number yet.

But even if it is just R 2 Billion, it still adds up to an enourmous amount. Have you ever seen R 2 Billion, let alone R 5 Billion?

Skills loss will be a factor at this rate yes, but there is no way of yet understanding the magnitude of such losses.

[Moederloos]

Skills loss will be a factor at this rate yes, but there is no way of yet understanding the magnitude of such losses.

Look North. There's the example.

[dualmeister]

Wahaha it finally happened. Power went off while I was updating a BIOS :D

[Piepalook]

Hi all,
We are experiencing a shortage of generators as well.
Staying in a rural area, things are worse than in the cities.We get shedded more often than you guys.
On thursday we had 5 outages lasting from 2 to 3 hours at a time.
There is a solution:
Get a 12 volt deep cycle Delco battery and an inverter(3000)watts.
The inverter changes 12 volt into 220 volt.
Make an extention (electricity cable)with a 3 point plug attached to both ends.
Switch the main power to the house off at the DB board.
Also switch off the geyser.
Plug one three point plug of the extention into the inverter.
Plug the other three point plug into any convenient plug box.
Switch on the plugbox and the inverter.
Now you have 220 volt power to all your plugs in the house as well as power for your lights.
All appliances,like tv,fridges,computors etc will work.
Toasters, electric kettles and your geysers won't work.
An electric kettle uses 3000 watts,same with a geyser.
When the power comes back on 4 or 5 hours later all you do is disconnect the inverter,put the battery on charge,switch the mains back on and switch the geyser on as well.
Reason you have to switch the mains off before you start the inverter is:if you don't switch it off you will supply the national grid and your stuff wont work.
The second reason you have to turn the mains off,is when the power comes back on you will blow up your converter and your deep cell battery.
A Delco deep cell battery costs about R 1200.
A3000 watt inverter shouldn't cost more than R 1500
A 12 volt 6 amp batterycharger would cost about R 200
If you really want to go way out you can get yourself a solar cell 55 watt to charge the battery.

[Piepalook]

Hi all,
We are experiencing a shortage of generators as well.
Staying in a rural area, things are worse than in the cities.We get shedded more often than you guys.
On thursday we had 5 outages lasting from 2 to 3 hours at a time.
There is a solution:
Get a 12 volt deep cycle Delco battery and an inverter(3000)watts.
The inverter changes 12 volt into 220 volt.
Make an extention (electricity cable)with a 3 point plug attached to both ends.
Switch the main power to the house off at the DB board.
Also switch off the geyser.
Plug one three point plug of the extention into the inverter.
Plug the other three point plug into any convenient plug box.
Switch on the plugbox and the inverter.
Now you have 220 volt power to all your plugs in the house as well as power for your lights.
All appliances,like tv,fridges,computors etc will work.
Toasters, electric kettles and your geysers won't work.
An electric kettle uses 3000 watts,same with a geyser.
When the power comes back on 4 or 5 hours later all you do is disconnect the inverter,put the battery on charge,switch the mains back on and switch the geyser on as well.
Reason you have to switch the mains off before you start the inverter is:if you don't switch it off you will supply the national grid and your stuff wont work.
The second reason you have to turn the mains off,is when the power comes back on you will blow up your converter and your deep cell battery.
A Delco deep cell battery costs about R 1200.
A3000 watt inverter shouldn't cost more than R 1500
A 12 volt 6 amp batterycharger would cost about R 200
If you really want to go way out you can get yourself a solar cell 55 watt to charge the battery.
I also forgot to mention that it is quiet(N0 noise) and costs almost nothing to run.A generator (petrol) costs about R9.00 per kilowatt hour,compared to the R0.50 we pay Escom per kilowatt hour.

[Piepalook]

Hi all,
As an Afrikaans speaking Afrikaner,I do not like the new government.I never contemplated leaving this country. 7 generations of my family was born here.
As stated i do not like the government, but decided to give them a chance.
I am sick an tired of having electricity on a temporary basis.
I am sick an tired of not being able to drink tap water.
I am sick and tired of being taxed to death.
I am sick and tired of receiving second class services.
I am sick and tired of swerving to aviod potholes on tar surfaces.
I am sick and tired of the educational system that produces matriculants that cannot read or spell.
I always considered South Africans that left this country as selfish.

Today, i consider myself as stupid.I should have left long ago....

Because of the outages raw sewage is contaminating the water in the Vaal river system.Check out News 24.

Christmas 2005-no Petrol
Christmas 2006- no Coca-cola
Christmas 2007-no electricity
Christmas 2008-no food?......

Eventually it gets to much to bear.

[Moederloos]

Piepalook - well done for speaking out.
You will find some support here for your views - and many people will attack you and tell you to "take your negativity and go". Do not let them concern you.

[dogmeat]

R5 billion, 2 Billion doesn't matter. It's a serious economic loss for a businesses. Not to mention being F*king irritating for residents.

[Moederloos]

R5 billion, 2 Billion doesn't matter. It's a serious economic loss for a businesses. Not to mention being F*king irritating for residents.

Just the other day we had some "feel good" article where Ireland gave us R50 million towards houses for the poor.

thats 3% of R2 billion. And the R2billion is daily.

Makes me think - not sure it has fired of a neuron in the ANC collective yet.

[Dmitrimm]

Will the charge from these batteries really last 5 hours?

[ToxicBunny]

If you were to ask me.... that R5billion figure is probably VERY conservative in terms of the cost of loadshedding per day to the economy.

[dogmeat]

I'd like to hear what Sepp Blatter thinks about all of this. Perhaps we're trying to keep it a secret from him? :D

[Robin Hood]

It's going to be a very scary winter, once Escom has the public used to 2 hour power cuts they will increase to 3 hours and in 5 years time we will be having 6 hour power cuts at a time... I still think Escom needs to employ some Americans to come and fix what they've broken. The yanks are a lot of things but slow is not one of them...

..or better still..."rent" the guys who left SA and KNEW their jobs...

[Moederloos]

I'd like to hear what Sepp Blatter thinks about all of this. Perhaps we're trying to keep it a secret from him? :D

[insert here] is not immediately available for comment.

[Paulr]

Will the charge from these batteries really last 5 hours?

Depends on the amount of power you draw.

If you pull 3000W, you'll need minumum 250A (will be more due to losses in the system etc.) So, even if you have a 250Ah battery (and that is a HUGE thing), that will only give you 1hr's worth of power (again, ideally)

And then, to recharge that battery will also take a lot of time, a 20Amp charger will take over 12hrs.

If you draw less power, say just TV, a few (energy saver) lights etc, the equation changes.

[Dmitrimm]

..or better still..."rent" the guys who left SA and KNEW their jobs...

I thought they were all working in London as waiters. :confused:



Depends on the amount of power you draw.

If you pull 3000W, you'll need minumum 250A (will be more due to losses in the system etc.) So, even if you have a 250Ah battery (and that is a HUGE thing), that will only give you 1hr's worth of power (again, ideally)

And then, to recharge that battery will also take a lot of time, a 20Amp charger will take over 12hrs.

If you draw less power, say just TV, a few (energy saver) lights etc, the equation changes.

This is interesting, going to do some research. Appears to be cheaper than relying off a petrol powered generator. Especially if all I want to do is run a PC.

I assume another issue would be to avoid discharging the battery over a certain percentage to maintain a good lifespan.

[The Cosmos]

Dark weekend ahead?

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2254757,00.html


Johannesburg - Power utility Eskom said that load shedding had continued from Friday morning until after evening peak and has warned that the prognosis showed a high possibility of load shedding over the weekend.

According to the national supplier, the electricity system was "extremely tight" and the pattern of load shedding is likely to remain until Thursday.

The utility said it was working with municipalities and regional disaster management committees in a bid to coordinate load-shedding schedules and manning of traffic lights during load shedding.

"We hope this will assist in minimising the inconvenience caused on the roads and improve our forewarning to electricity consumers.

"We are also taking into account suggestions from consumers in relation to our communication with consumers. Where municipalities don't have capacity to do their own load-shedding, they request Eskom to do the switching," Eskom said.

Eskom also said that the planned shut down of Koeberg's Unit 2 on Monday has been factored into the load shedding schedule, and is not expected to worsen the situation. - I-Net Bridge and News24

[abjater]

Piepalook: The Million Watt question - where do we still FIND 3000W inverters in this country ?!?!

[Piepalook]

Hi,
According to the media things will return to normal in 2017.
May be i am just negative, but things cannot return to normal.
The losses suffered in bussiness today can and will never be recouped.
The lights went out in Massetusetts in the U.S. for 1 night.
9 months later all the maternity wards all over the U.S. was filled up.
Can you imagine what is happening here? iT's Mind boggling!
And the baby boomers will want electricity too! 20 or 30 years from now.....
There is no apprentices being trained by Escom or anybody else.Who will maintain the equipment?

Years ago there was a song that went:"a man with a hammer... built it"
There is no more a man with a hammer.
It's just a pity that none of us realised that we are heading for disaster.

Koeberg is going off line next week,to replace the fuel,it's not expected to start up for 2 months(if all goes well)

Winter is around the corner....
To make petrol you need electricity....
To make steel you need electricity.....
To build cars you need electricity....
To slaughter animals they need electricity...
You need electricity to raise chickens.....
for milking cows also.....
To mine you need electricity
To keep foodstuffs cold you need electricity...
.
To put it plainly... we are in serious trouble.

Every single item we buy will escalate in price.
And there will be no improvement.....in fact it will get worse....
If you start building powerstations now they will only come online in 10 years time.
And Escom demolished two powerstations in the last 10 years.....
Kragbron and Gemsbok.
Now that was strategic planning for you!

[sand_man]

Christmas 2005-no Petrol
Christmas 2006- no Coca-cola
Christmas 2007-no electricity
Christmas 2008-no food?......

Eventually it gets to much to bear.
Hell for a second there I thought you said eventually there will be no beer...

[Piepalook]

Piepalook: The Million Watt question - where do we still FIND 3000W inverters in this country ?!?!
Got mine from a company in Vanderbijlpark ,They specialise in solar heaters for household use.
You should also be able to get them at agricultural co-ops or at any decent 4x4 offroad stores like Megaworld or Safari 4x4.If they havent got, they can order it for you.
I imagine they will be getting scarce now after these posts,so dont let the grass grow under your feet.
good luck!

[Piepalook]

Hell for a second there I thought you said eventually there will be no beer...
Do you have any idea how much beer SAB had to throw away during the past week?
Just emptied the tanks into the sewage?
Pretty soon no more beer.....!

[HavocXphere]

nauseous_monkey, your figures are wrong.


1.) Sanlam and other banking institutions are loosing R 5 billion Rand per day on load-shedding.
Standard bank, the biggest of the banks, has a yearly income of about 80 billion. 63 billion of which are life assurance and interest income and is therefore not affect directly by power cuts. That leaves 17 billion income per year or 46 million per day that could be affected (assuming that the power cuts completely kills the income streams, with is unlikely). There are maybe 10 major financial/banking operation in SA so it could be ~460 million per day for financial banking institutions, which is still unrealistically high, not 5000 million per day.
link (http://www.standardbank.co.za/site/investor/ar_2005/financials/group/income_statement.htm)


4.) Electricity prices will rise by a minimum of 14 % in the next two months.
Eskom price increases are regulated. They recently got approval for a ~17% increase for an entire year. Not 14% in two months. Emergency cash injections will come from the Trevour not via insta-price hikes.



365 days per year X 5 yrs X 10 Billion (minimum) =
18250 Billion in losses MINIMUM for Business in JHB city.
The GDP in 2006 was about 576b$ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_South_Africa) x 7= R4032 x 5 = R20160 billion for 5 years. When combining that with what you said we can conclude that:
1) There never was any economic activity outside of JHB and
2) Power cuts will cause everyone in SA to stop working/spending/producing completely.

I suspect that your inside source is the HR department because those billions your quoting are totally arbitrary.:p

[sand_man]

Pretty soon no more beer.....!
That's it, I'm leaving...

[dogmeat]

Hi,
According to the media things will return to normal in 2017.
May be i am just negative, but things cannot return to normal.
The losses suffered in bussiness today can and will never be recouped.
The lights went out in Massetusetts in the U.S. for 1 night.
9 months later all the maternity wards all over the U.S. was filled up.
Can you imagine what is happening here? iT's Mind boggling!
And the baby boomers will want electricity too! 20 or 30 years from now.....
There is no apprentices being trained by Escom or anybody else.Who will maintain the equipment?

Years ago there was a song that went:"a man with a hammer... built it"
There is no more a man with a hammer.
It's just a pity that none of us realised that we are heading for disaster.

Koeberg is going off line next week,to replace the fuel,it's not expected to start up for 2 months(if all goes well)

Winter is around the corner....
To make petrol you need electricity....
To make steel you need electricity.....
To build cars you need electricity....
To slaughter animals they need electricity...
You need electricity to raise chickens.....
for milking cows also.....
To mine you need electricity
To keep foodstuffs cold you need electricity...
.
To put it plainly... we are in serious trouble.

Every single item we buy will escalate in price.
And there will be no improvement.....in fact it will get worse....
If you start building powerstations now they will only come online in 10 years time.
And Escom demolished two powerstations in the last 10 years.....
Kragbron and Gemsbok.
Now that was strategic planning for you!



I can follow your reasoning completely. A blow such as this is difficult to recover without huge amouts of money being pumped into the country as support and I don't see anyone offering to help probably because we haven't asked and don't want to make a big fuss about it due to the FIFA world cup.

The Star did an interview with Jacob Maroga, Eskom's chief executive and said himself it will be 2016 before things normalize. I wrote an article on it here: http://demosupport.blogspot.com/

[The Cosmos]

Power outages to get worse

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?from=rss_News&set_id=1&click_id=79&art_id=vn20080119083339428C127131

By Thabiso Thakali and Christina Gallagher

South Africans have been warned to prepare for power cuts, gridlock and general disruption. "It's going to get worse before it gets better," admitted Eskom's chief executive Jacob Maroga in a frank interview with the Saturday Star on Friday.

His admission comes after Eskom warned this week that the rolling blackouts would continue throughout next week. Earlier it had warned South Africa would suffer power shortages for between five to eight years while supply is extended.

This week Eskom "loadshedded" 3 000mW of power - the highest ever in the country's history. Consumers experienced blackouts several times a day, as Eskom struggled to deal with what it termed a "stage 2" emergency on a scale of four.

Stage 4 represents a cataclysmic collapse of the national power grid.

And, while South Africans fume, an economist estimates the blackouts are costing local industry up to R2-billion a day.

Fanie Joubert, an economist at the Efficient Group, said he based this on an average three hour power cut. He added that although this figure was a "rough estimate", he believed it was realistic based on this year's predicted GDP growth.

Eskom has embarked on a programme to increase the country's supply capacity including commissioning several new coal fired and nuclear power stations and recommissioning mothballed power stations.

It also plans to buy excess power capacity from companies producing their own. It also announced a subsidy scheme to help homeowners install solar heat.

'In this short period we need to look at how we can reduce the demand'
The power crisis has severely dented South Africa's image as an investment destination, putting billions of rands in foreign investment in jeopardy.

Frost & Sullivan, an international growth consulting firm, warned this week the power crisis could cost South Africa its ranking in the Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) Confidence Index's Top 20. South Africa made its debut on the index, which lists the world's most attractive investment destinations, last month. It is the only African country on the index.

Mike Schussler, an economist with T-SEC, also predicted that the current power crisis would negatively affect economic growth, lead to job losses and have a dire impact on the inflation rate.

Maroga said Eskom could not predict the frequency of the power cuts, but warned of a "high probability" of further load shedding years into the future if demand exceeded Eskom's ability to supply.

Urging all South Africans to cut back on their electricity usage, Maroga said: "We are in a very tight demand and supply situation.

"We know how long it will take us to build new power stations, but in this short period we need to look at how we can reduce the demand.

"Two things that could relieve the situation are bringing back the power stations that are currently on unplanned maintenance and to reduce consumption, which would lead to an increase in the reserve margin," said Maroga.

The current reserve margin is estimated to be less than 10 percent.

Meanwhile, Public Protector Lawrence Mushwana wrote to Maroga this week wanting to know what steps Eskom had taken to prevent the current situation and how long it would last.

He also asked if hospitals and police stations would be protected from blackouts.

A confidential document compiled by a senior municipal official in Port Elizabeth has revealed that the National Integrated Resource Plan compiled by the National Energy Regulator of South Africa (Nersa) up until 2022, had inadequately planned for future energy needs.

Government's plans, incorporating the present coal-fired power stations, did not account for the fact that these stations' output would, over time, decrease due to use, according to Nelson Mandela Bay power supply director George Ferreira.

The government plan said new the coal-fired stations, which would take at least seven years to build, would have to rely on costly clean coal technology, which will be more expensive than either gas or nuclear power stations.

It was also predicted that because of bad planning, including delayed environmental impact assessment studies, the energy crisis would not "normalise" until 2016.

Marius Louw, of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry South Africa said the power crisis was a "sad state of affairs", adding that the daily three hour power cuts were leading to two days of business lost each week.

"The only way to make up for this is for businesses to lay off their employees and consumers are going to have to pay for the increases in business costs," he said.

[marine1]

Watch they are going to push the price of electricity up more and more. Just like Enron

[The Cosmos]

Watch they are going to push the price of electricity up more and more. Just like Enron

South Africa has already reached the anarchy stage. It's a matter of time before all hell breaks loose.

[gboy]

what do you guys say pure sine wave inverters, safer for pcs ect, or a modified sine wave, the pure sine wave inverter can cost a hell of a lot more than a modified sine wave,

herd a modified sine wave may cause lines across a tv.

[Moederloos]

what do you guys say pure sine wave inverters, safer for pcs ect, or a modified sine wave, the pure sine wave inverter can cost a hell of a lot more than a modified sine wave,

herd a modified sine wave may cause lines across a tv.

No idea -I just run things through the UPS off a generator - to my small brain, that seems the best. :D

[Peon]

South Africa has already reached the anarchy stage. It's a matter of time before all hell breaks loose.

I fear this is approaching.

[Moederloos]

I fear this is approaching.

Well, six trains were burnt because the power outage stopped them working.
If that ain't hell-breaking-loose, I must have missed the memo.


EDIT: One has to wonder what they people thought would happen when the power came back on? Fairy Godmother waves new trains into existence?

[The Cosmos]

small hell preluding all hell breaking loose. :D:eek::eek::eek:

[Moederloos]

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20080119083848949C302278

2016 now.
Sigh
thats 8-9 years

[Moederloos]

I want to cry:


Eskom plans to develop 20 000 megawatts of nuclear power by 2025. An investment decision on the first plant, which would have a capacity of 3 300 to 4 000MW, will go to the board in June.


Only going to make a decision in June!!!
WTF???

"Let us waste ANOTHER 6 months"

[nauseous_monkey]

nauseous_monkey, your figures are wrong.


Standard bank, the biggest of the banks, has a yearly income of about 80 billion. 63 billion of which are life assurance and interest income and is therefore not affect directly by power cuts. That leaves 17 billion income per year or 46 million per day that could be affected (assuming that the power cuts completely kills the income streams, with is unlikely). There are maybe 10 major financial/banking operation in SA so it could be ~460 million per day for financial banking institutions, which is still unrealistically high, not 5000 million per day.
link (http://www.standardbank.co.za/site/investor/ar_2005/financials/group/income_statement.htm)


Eskom price increases are regulated. They recently got approval for a ~17% increase for an entire year. Not 14% in two months. Emergency cash injections will come from the Trevour not via insta-price hikes.


The GDP in 2006 was about 576b$ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_South_Africa) x 7= R4032 x 5 = R20160 billion for 5 years. When combining that with what you said we can conclude that:
1) There never was any economic activity outside of JHB and
2) Power cuts will cause everyone in SA to stop working/spending/producing completely.

I suspect that your inside source is the HR department because those billions your quoting are totally arbitrary.:p

I dearly accept your criticism of the figures that I posted, but I think I have not gotten the message across to you adequately. Sorry for that. Let me try again...


The GDP by definition is the Gross Domestic Profit, in other words Gross - Expenses = Income which is the GDP. The GDP in other words is a terrible thing to use as to work out the daily loses suffered by the banking institutions and companies in general.

Thus when we speak of losses... this is what I mean...

Expenses (for the time the power goes off) + Loss of Income (The money which was expected to come in AKA Gross for the day)

================
Here is an example...

The Expense of running all the banking institutions, factories, companies, retail stores and more in South Africa daily.

PLUS

The Income which is lost because there is not productivity/service.

EQUALS

A Very large number that cannot be calculated barely on the GDP of 2006, neither the Income from Standard bank. Both of these values do not reflect both losses in terms of expenses and income loss collectively.

================


NOW IN LAYMAN TERMS....

My dad closes his door to his retail store for 6 hours a day in peak business hours because of load-shedding. That is HALF OF THE BUSINESS DAY. Let's assume he makes R 30 000.00 Gross per day... NOW HE ONLY MAKES HALF (plus/minus) so he only makes R 15 000.00 Gross for the day.

NOw here is the problem...

He still employess the same amount of staff, still uses the same equiptment, still pays the same rent, he still has all the expenses he had when he was open for a full day, but now only he is Grossing LESS.

In other words...

He might aswell not open his doors as his PROFIT for the day used to be about R5000.00 now he has to pay money back... because there is no Profit from all the losses.

[sand_man]

Psychologists say the continuing power outages are causing widespread distress and pessimism.

It's the tenth consecutive day of countrywide rolling blackouts and they're expected to continue until at least next Thursday.

South Africans who've been left angry and vulnerable by the ongoing power cuts have lashed out at government and Eskom.

Some people say they've lost faith in the country.

Doctor Ronel Duchen says people feel out of control as the power cuts impact the way they have to conduct their daily lives.

Psychologist Adene Davis agrees saying it's the lack of control over events that disturbs people.702 eye witness news

[Moederloos]

702 eye witness news

So true.
I said the same thing to the wife not 40 mins ago.
The effect on the mental well being of the nation far outweighs the economic costs.

I went so far as got out a suitcase to see what I could take should I decide later this month to hop on a plane and job hunt abroad.


And yet - the silence is deafening from our leaders. Mbeki? You awake?

[Ozymandias]

Eskom is doing maintenance on the one unit at Koeberg resulting in a 5% shortage of capacity.
The public in SA use 14% of Eskoms total capacity.
The largest single user in SA is BHP Billiton
It's one Alluminium smelter employing less than 2000 people uses 8%
Shutting one factory down while maintenance is carried out would result in there being very few blackouts for the 45000000 other people in SA

Where did you get these stats from JamesR? BHP Billiton's largest Alluminium smelter is Hillside in Richards Bay which produces 700 000 metric tonnes per annum and uses about 1125 MW of power. This equates to about 3% of Eskom's total generating capacity. BHP Billiton's total electricity usage from it's Hillside, Bayside and Mozal (Mozal is in Mozambique & I believe they get their power from Eskom) smelters is 2150 MW which would account for approx. 5.6% of Eskom's capacity.

The first phase of the Rio Tinto Alcan smelter in Coega, will come on stream in 2010 and will require 1355 MW or 3.5% of Eskom's capacity. Eskom charges about $0.01 to $0.02 per kilowatt-hour to BHP Billiton depending on world Alluminium prices and Rio Tinto have negotiated even lower prices. The average home consumer therefore pays about four times what these big electricity guzzlers do. I would be interested to know exactly what economic benefits South Africa derives by having these smelters located on our shores. We don't produce Bauxite here so essentially, we import it, process it and then ship it out and create a 5-10 thousand jobs along the way. Are these big guzzlers going to pay the 15-20% annual increases that we poor home consumers face for years to come or are their prices fixed to the terms of their supply contracts with Eskom?

When the R78.6-billion Medupi power station comes on stream in 2013 it will produce 4500 MW. BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto will be taking about 80% of the capacity of a power station the size of Medupi. That would equate to us spending R63-billion to build a power plant to supply cheap electricity to these smelters with questionable economic return on investment. The Star reported today that a 3 hour average power cut is costing local industry R2-billion a day. If true, that's one helluva price to pay!

[Moederloos]

What worries me is:
If Eskom produces 38000MW, and the smelter uses 1300MW, that leaves 36000MW or so.
If we are short 2500MW, that means that at any given point in the day, roughly 8% of the country is blacked out.

[Ozymandias]

What worries me is:
If Eskom produces 38000MW, and the smelter uses 1300MW, that leaves 36000MW or so.
If we are short 2500MW, that means that at any given point in the day, roughly 8% of the country is blacked out.

That would be about right. Smelters have to run 24/7/365 and Eskom signed a 25 year supply agreement for the Coega smelter in November 2006 and I would guess that this supply would be guaranteed. Are the rest of us being shedded at the expense of a few major users?

[Moederloos]

Vogon Poetry Warning! Alert!

Twas a dark and stormy night,
when we lost the o'erhead light,
warnings foretold,
unless we were bold,
supply she 'oud be tight.


Apologies all round :/

:D

[sand_man]

Gatiep and Satan.
Satan visits Cape Town and meets Gatiep.
"do you know who I am?" says Satan.
"nay" says Gatiep, "give me a hint."
Satan says, "I'm the prince of darkness!!!".
"*** it!!" says Gatiep, "jys moes die CEO van Eskom!!"

[Piepalook]

Hi,
Just had a power cut(loadshedding is not the appropriate word) That lasted from 16h10 till 18h10.
On a Saturday afternoon with most bussiness people at home and offices closed!.........
How can that happen? Who is using the power?
Someone is lying to us.My educated guess would be that Escom is lying,their problems are far bigger than they let on.

We will wait and see what happens on Monday at Koeberg.
(The scheduled maintenance is due to start then)

[Moederloos]

Hi,
Just had a power cut(loadshedding is not the appropriate word) That lasted from 16h10 till 18h10.
On a Saturday afternoon with most bussiness people at home and offices closed!.........
How can that happen? Who is using the power?
Someone is lying to us.My educated guess would be that Escom is lying,their problems are far bigger than they let on.

We will wait and see what happens on Monday at Koeberg.
(The scheduled maintenance is due to start then)

It is happening, because Eskom is running over 100% in the week - and under 100% on the weekend.
No other explanation makes sense - someone is welcome to furnish one.

By running over 100% they are effectively reducing the life span of the equipment - much like running your car at high revs all the time.

They are doing this, because if they did not - we would be, say, 6000MW short in the week.

If I am right (and I am open to correction), it is VERY scary. If we lose one of those overworked stations, we can kiss our rears goodbye.

[schitz011]

I wonder what would happen if the national grid trips out.. Given that people don't switch things off when there is a power cut, the surge in demand would be staggering.

Actually, I don't want to think about it as it would most likely be the end of any sort of chance this country stands..

[Piepalook]

It is happening, because Eskom is running over 100% in the week - and under 100% on the weekend.
No other explanation makes sense - someone is welcome to furnish one.

By running over 100% they are effectively reducing the life span of the equipment - much like running your car at high revs all the time.

They are doing this, because if they did not - we would be, say, 6000MW short in the week.

If I am right (and I am open to correction), it is VERY scary. If we lose one of those overworked stations, we can kiss our rears goodbye.

There are two gas generators running in the Cape that was intended to be used only in an emergency. They were not designed to run for longer than two hours at a time without maintenance. At present they are running 20 hours a day..... and is a cause of big concern for Escom engineers.

[Peon]

This is going to be an interesting week......

[gregmcc]

Someone is lying to us.My educated guess would be that Escom is lying

Eskom!!! Never!! :eek:

They've been pulling the wool over our eyes for the past 10 years!

[nauseous_monkey]

Anyone have a clue on how Universities will handle this? I am a student at UCT and am concerned that I might be subject to paying for a lot of non-existent lectures. I blame Eskom. Lectures cannot continue with no power these days... projectors, lights, aircon and more...

[NoADSLyet]

Dark weekend ahead?
http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=817451



Johannesburg - Power utility Eskom said that load shedding had continued from Friday morning until after evening peak and has warned that the prognosis showed a high possibility of load shedding over the weekend.
According to the national supplier, the electricity system was "extremely tight" and the pattern of load shedding is likely to remain until Thursday.

The utility said it was working with municipalities and regional disaster management committees in a bid to coordinate load-shedding schedules and manning of traffic lights during load shedding.

"We hope this will assist in minimising the inconvenience caused on the roads and improve our forewarning to electricity consumers.

"We are also taking into account suggestions from consumers in relation to our communication with consumers. Where municipalities don't have capacity to do their own load-shedding, they request Eskom to do the switching," Eskom said.

Eskom also said that the planned shut down of Koeberg's Unit 2 on Monday has been factored into the load shedding schedule, and is not expected to worsen the situation. - I-Net Bridge and News24

[schitz011]

I have this feeling in my stomach that something pretty bad is going to happen in the coming week.

Generally speaking South Africans are pretty apathetic, but two weeks of random on/off/on/off with the power is pushing people closer and closer to the edge where even rational people take irrational actions.

I read something about the psychological aspects of all this and it was very interesting reading (sorry forgot where it was). The sheer randomness of the power cuts effects us in more ways than we know.

If you want to torture a prisoner and throw him off guard, break his routine. Humans love routines, we live by them, but these power failures disrupt and break them and consequently it pushes them into actions they would normally not consider

[Piepalook]

Dark weekend ahead?
http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=817451

About Koeberg: We will have to wait and see,won't we?

[blonde one]

I have this feeling in my stomach that something pretty bad is going to happen in the coming week.


Electricity
Supply
Cut
On
Monday ????:(

[Claymore]

The GDP by definition is the Gross Domestic Profit, in other words Gross - Expenses = Income which is the GDP. The GDP in other words is a terrible thing to use as to work out the daily loses suffered by the banking institutions and companies in general.

Oh dear.

GDP is Gross Domestic Product, not Profit.

Your whole argument just disintegrated.

[Moederloos]

OK - let us not push around figures - let us keep it simple.
If I have to close my doors for 2 of the 8 hours in a day - I have lost 25% of my day's productivity.
Convert that into any figure that anyone is comfortable with.
It is pointless (IMHO) to argue the figure itself - most of us cannot comprehend a billion anyways.

It is "easy" to say - "Oh well, if Joe does not go shopping now, he will still need to go buy milk, so there is no 'loss' " - but that I think is simplifying. I for one have spent WAY less than normal this week - a glass of water in place of my tea, etc.

[Piepalook]

Estcourt(the bacon people) lost 17 tonnes of polony this week.Apparently the polony was half cooked when the power went off.
then it started going bad....and they threw it away.
I think there is going to be a shortage of polony next week....
and beer...... and bread...... and petrol.....the list goes on..... and on.....

[pimal3]

Our company loses ~R400,000 per hour during loadshedding. Now the company is buying generators worth R3,000,000 in order to carry on production during these hours. Guess what just happened to my increase this year and the price increases for its products?

[nauseous_monkey]

Oh dear.

GDP is Gross Domestic Product, not Profit.

Your whole argument just disintegrated.

damnit I knew I should have googled that :p

But I think much of what I said still stands.

[nauseous_monkey]

Our company loses ~R400,000 per hour during loadshedding. Now the company is buying generators worth R3,000,000 in order to carry on production during these hours. Guess what just happened to my increase this year and the price increases for its products?

Yeah, those generators are said to have a six months waiting list.

[Piepalook]

Our company loses ~R400,000 per hour during loadshedding. Now the company is buying generators worth R3,000,000 in order to carry on production during these hours. Guess what just happened to my increase this year and the price increases for its products?
Have you wondered weather they will be able to pay all their staff at the end of the month?
Some companies will have to use their overdraft to pay their employees...
and pay interest on borrowed money.
Pretty soon the banks will stop extending credit as soon as no product goes out the gate!
Layoffs will start.....its a vicious spiral.....

[nauseous_monkey]

Ekskomel is Load-shedding


all over your kitten

/oops wrong thread... still applicable though:p

[schitz011]

Another aspect of this is that it is polarizing the nation somewhat.

Has anyone else noticed that people are being a lot less PC the last two weeks?
If these power failures are to continue for the next 5/10 years then I wonder what effect this will have on nationalism and the rise of factions..

[Moederloos]

Our company loses ~R400,000 per hour during loadshedding. Now the company is buying generators worth R3,000,000 in order to carry on production during these hours. Guess what just happened to my increase this year and the price increases for its products?

Please can your increase give mine a message? Tell him I miss him!
-Our company also spent a lot - not that much, but a lot for us - guess my next increase is going to be abroad.


Another aspect of this is that it is polarizing the nation somewhat.

Has anyone else noticed that people are being a lot less PC the last two weeks?
If these power failures are to continue for the next 5/10 years then I wonder what effect this will have on nationalism and the rise of factions..

Fer sure - it is very evident that something has changed.
These times will one day be in the history books.

[schitz011]

Fer sure - it is very evident that something has changed.
These times will one day be in the history books.

It is defiantly a watershed and if these power failures continues, as has been speculated, till the end of next week, the publics reaction will be a litmus test as to which direction South Africa is likely to head in the coming decade.

Either the public will be galvanized into finally taking a stand in which case there is a glimmer of hope, or the public will simply shrug their collective shoulders and accept it, and South Africa only needs to look north for it's future..

[nauseous_monkey]

http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data/500/ekskomel.JPG

[NoADSLyet]

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=817682


Mbeki to meet Eskom2008-1-19 20:27Johannesburg - President Thabo Mbeki is to meet with the management of electricity utility, Eskom to ascertain the depth of the problem and the company's remedial plans, the Presidency said on Saturday.
"The president's intervention will compliment discussions in which Minister of Mineral and Energy, Buyelwa Sonjica is already engaged with Eskom," presidential spokesperson Mukoni Rat****anga said.

He said Mbeki will table the matter before the forthcoming Cabinet Lekgotla that begins in Pretoria on Tuesday ending on Thursday, he said.

Eskom said on Friday that the current round of load shedding is is likely to remain until Thursday


Too little too late Mugabeki Just instruct them to stop supplying your family in ZIM with Free power and Speed up the Plans for another KOEBERG, Dump your BEE/AA cr@p and reemploy the fired Engineers (with common sense and brains) you chased . Then while You at it fire your communications ministry (And Yourself) and restore this country to prosperity for all and give us cheap communications! (Free for the disadvantaged that cannot afford any Internet (ALL of them white and black))

[Ozymandias]

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=817682
Too little too late Mugabeki Just instruct them to stop supplying your family in ZIM with Free power and Speed up the Plans for another KOEBERG, Dump your BEE/AA cr@p and reemploy the fired Engineers (with common sense and brains) you chased . Then while You at it fire your communications ministry (And Yourself) and restore this country to prosperity for all and give us cheap communications! (Free for the disadvantaged that cannot afford any Internet (ALL of them white and black))

:D:D:D

[abjater]

At present they are running 20 hours a day..... and is a cause of big concern for Escom engineers.
Does eishkom still _have_ qualified engineers?? Or does a bulb fitter qualify as en engineer nowadays??

[arni1954]

The fact of the matter is very simple. Eskom can't produce more electricity then they are producing now for the next 5 years at least . Did it happened because of their stupidity ?.......yes .
Is it a disaster for South Africa and every citizen in the country ?......... yes . The only important question is what each individual do in this case . Stay and find a way to work around the problem or go some where else . This is the only question . Sorry no more electricity

[Moederloos]

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=817682




Too little too late Mugabeki Just instruct them to stop supplying your family in ZIM with Free power and Speed up the Plans for another KOEBERG, Dump your BEE/AA cr@p and reemploy the fired Engineers (with common sense and brains) you chased . Then while You at it fire your communications ministry (And Yourself) and restore this country to prosperity for all and give us cheap communications! (Free for the disadvantaged that cannot afford any Internet (ALL of them white and black))

:D And agreed.


The fact of the matter is very simple. Eskom can't produce more electricity then they are producing now for the next 5 years at least . Did it happened because of their stupidity ?.......yes .
Is it a disaster for South Africa and every citizen in the country ?......... yes . The only important question is what each individual do in this case . Stay and find a way to work around the problem or go some where else . This is the only question . Sorry no more electricity

Eskom can supply less to certain areas though.
Eskom can ask guavamint to send the army in to townships and disconnect illegal supplies.
Eskom can subside solar geysers HEAVILY and supply and install them too.
Eskom can incentivize companies to operate night shifts with massive price reductons, so as to alleviate day time pressures.

[Piepalook]

:D And agreed.



Eskom can supply less to certain areas though.
Eskom can ask guavamint to send the army in to townships and disconnect illegal supplies.
Eskom can subside solar geysers HEAVILY and supply and install them too.
Eskom can incentivize companies to operate night shifts with massive price reductons, so as to alleviate day time pressures.

There is no more army left.
65% of our 'Army" is off sick at any day(unfit for duty)
The other 35% is a danger to themselves and to others in the vicinity.
Lohatlha is a case in point.
(fireing at ground targets with anti aircraft guns!)

[Moederloos]

There is no more army left.
65% of our 'Army" is off sick at any day(unfit for duty)
The other 35% is a danger to themselves and to others in the vicinity.
Lohatlha is a case in point.
(fireing at ground targets with anti aircraft guns!)

hehe - it was a bit of tongue in cheek.
As you can from a few of my previous posts - they are a favourite target:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=1074769&postcount=3
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=1452472&postcount=24

:D

[Andre1]

Can anybody remember the add on TV of Eskom Saying that it will light up Africa? I think they must bring it back and play it in reverse. THAT WILL MAKE SENCE. LOL

[Piepalook]

At the time i felt rather proud when i saw that ad!

[Moederloos]

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20080120082635799C834936



Etzinger said electricity reserves had dropped during the past year from 7 percent to minus 17 percent because there had been a decline in generation performance.

"a decline in generation performance" is a euphemism for "failing equipment".
And, there is no way for them to fix that equipment, while it is are running.
And since we are already short, it does not take a crystal ball to foresee the future.

[Paulr]

Hehe, it the same as the "Unplanned Maintenance" that has to be done on stations from time to time......

Just say the blerry thing broke and get it over with, sheesh.....

[HavocXphere]

The GDP by definition is the Gross Domestic Profit, in other words Gross - Expenses = Income which is the GDP.
:confused:

A region's gross domestic product, or GDP, is one of the ways of measuring the size of its economy. The GDP of a country is defined as the total market value of all final goods and services produced within a country in a given period of time (usually a calendar year).
link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_Domestic_Product)

[The Cosmos]

Rolling power blackouts to continue in SA

January 20, 2008, 18:15

South Africans can brace themselves for another week of rolling blackouts. Eskom says there be no let up any time soon.

President Thabo Mbeki and Buyela Sonjica the Minister of Minerals and Energy are to meet with Eskom leadership this evening in an attempt to address the crisis. Last week's frustrations will continue and they're here to stay. Eskom says it's a reality that consumers will have to live with.

Eskom MD for Corporate Services Steve Lennon says "unfortunately the demand for electricity still outstrips our ability to supply, and so it looks like there will be load shedding for most of the coming week. "
The power utility has also come under fire from the opposition who accuse them of supplying South Africa's neighbours at the expense of locals. But Eskom says it's not the case.

Lennon says most of the neighbouring states are on what they call uniform electricity contracts which means if Eskom is unable to sustain the power in South Africa they are also not able to supply the neighbouring states. The ANC National Executive Committee concluded its weekend Lekgotla today and have called for this problem to be addressed urgently. Eskom is also meeting with its biggest clients tomorrow following an outcry by the business community.

http://www.sabcnews.com/south_africa/general/0,2172,162777,00.html

[Piepalook]

More bad news from our friendly electricity supplier:
30% of Escom's generators are down.(broken) The rest are working at max capacity.(without maintenance)
Koeberg will be shut down on Monday to refuel.This process will take two months if all goes well......(what are the chances of that?)

[abjater]

[B]
Lennon says most of the neighbouring states are on what they call uniform electricity contracts which means if Eskom is unable to sustain the power in South Africa they are also not able to supply the neighbouring states.

What proof do we have? Is he willing to SHOW us there's no current in those wires during our black (brown) outs ?
The "most" also needs to be clarified. Can be Swaziland (who uses like 5mW per day perhaps) or Zim (who we fear dont have generating capacity of its own).

[icyrus]

Eskom MD for Corporate Services Steve Lennon says "unfortunately the demand for electricity still outstrips our ability to supply, and so it looks like there will be load shedding for most of the coming week. "

And yet still no explanation of the recent problems.

Every single top management clown that has worked for eskom in the last 10 years should be blacklisted from ever getting a job again.

[GTi]

I read an article on News24 about the loadshedding in SA, The Democratic Alliance is to quiz government on why state utility Eskom is supplying power to South Africa's neighbours when its own people are having to deal with rolling blackouts. They are to cancel these contract and deal with SA first.Stop exporting power.
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...255231,00.html
There is also new site call: www.eskomstories.co.za

[Moederloos]

http://www.poweralert.co.za/poweralert3/slider.php

?? Huh

All green - 5 mins ago it was multicoloured?