SA Teams Getting a Mighty Hiding

[JungleBoy]

First it was Banyana's dismal showing against Sweden and Canada (They lost both games 4 -1 and 3 -0)
Then the ladies Hockey team got trashed by Argentina ( 7-1). The men's hockey team also got thrashed by Australia (6 -0).
My problem is these are team sports and probably use up the majority of the budget and yet don't seem to have any hope of achieving any silverware. Maybe we need to re-focus our attention on individual events. It will cost less and they will have more resources for intensive preparation. What do you guys think?

[zahpat]

First it was Banyana's dismal showing against Sweden and Canada (They lost both games 4 -1 and 3 -0)
Then the ladies Hockey team got trashed by Argentina ( 7-1). The men's hockey team also got thrashed by Australia (6 -0).
My problem is these are team sports and probably use up the majority of the budget and yet don't seem to have any hope of achieving any silverware. Maybe we need to re-focus our attention on individual events. It will cost less and they will have more resources for intensive preparation. What do you guys think?

When you are picked for your country you should give your utmost best to do and be the best. Not long ago i remember we where doing well in Hockey both mens and womens teams and also netball. Things have changed:(

[AfricanTech]

I agree - we should only send athletes who have a realistic chance of getting a medal

[AcidRaZor]

First it was Banyana's dismal showing against Sweden and Canada (They lost both games 4 -1 and 3 -0)
Then the ladies Hockey team got trashed by Argentina ( 7-1). The men's hockey team also got thrashed by Australia (6 -0).
My problem is these are team sports and probably use up the majority of the budget and yet don't seem to have any hope of achieving any silverware. Maybe we need to re-focus our attention on individual events. It will cost less and they will have more resources for intensive preparation. What do you guys think?

I agree - we should only send athletes who have a realistic chance of getting a medal




I think that's idiotic.

[Mike Hoxbig]

The problem with hockey is that while it's popular at school level, we don't really have a national league capable of producing the sort of skill that we see in other countries.

[Chris]

I'm surprised we couldn't enter a waterpolo team for the Olympics. Like hello...

[SteveO]

The problem with hockey is that while it's popular at school level, we don't really have a national league capable of producing the sort of skill that we see in other countries.

Also, atleast for the men's hockey, its not a professional sport in SA, ie they have 9-5 jobs and need to fit in training etc. They dont get paid to play and are essentially volunteering their time and in some cases their own money.

[samr1wp]

The problem with hockey is that while it's popular at school level, we don't really have a national league capable of producing the sort of skill that we see in other countries.


Also, atleast for the men's hockey, its not a professional sport in SA, ie they have 9-5 jobs and need to fit in training etc. They dont get paid to play and are essentially volunteering their time and in some cases their own money.

yeah i also saw this on tv...the guys dont have sponsors and cannot take up the sport as a profession

and our guys are good, not good enough tho i guess

we cannot say hey you not allowed cause you not good

[ghoti]

Its a pity our athletes are so under supported by the ANC controlled government.

[Mike Hoxbig]

Its a pity our athletes are so under supported by the ANC controlled government.

This is one case where I'd say that they're not entirely to blame. Some sports just aren't that popular in SA, and our competitiveness suffers as a result. Popularity leads to income which leads to better performances. It's one thing for us to be glued to our screens during the olympics, but an entirely different matter for us to follow it for the next 4 years.

[samr1wp]

This is one case where I'd say that they're not entirely to blame. Some sports just aren't that popular in SA, and our competitiveness suffers as a result. Popularity leads to income which leads to better performances. It's one thing for us to be glued to our screens during the olympics, but an entirely different matter for us to follow it for the next 4 years.

im not sure about hockey in dbn and jhb, but in cpt is is just as big as rugby at school level

tennis and stuff yeah might be an issue ...but athletics and swimming we fine with that

[ghoti]

This is one case where I'd say that they're not entirely to blame. Some sports just aren't that popular in SA, and our competitiveness suffers as a result. Popularity leads to income which leads to better performances. It's one thing for us to be glued to our screens during the olympics, but an entirely different matter for us to follow it for the next 4 years.

A lot of those sports are not popular viewing sports, but in other countries, they get more development money to support them.

[Abe]

I agree - we should only send athletes who have a realistic chance of getting a medal

That would have been my thought process in the past but when you look at Cameron Van De Burg, you will see that he was 5th in his heat in the last Olympics and didn't get past the first round. I am sure the experience helped him to get gold this time around. That said, I have been exceptionally disappointed in some of the performances.

[maumau]

48th out of 51 who finished in equestrian

[za1]

48th out of 51 who finished in equestrian

yay, awesome, we 48th in the world!!

[SinghDude]

Free holiday for some... Just no sense of pride or passion.


Rather embarassing.

[R13...]

A lot of those sports are not popular viewing sports, but in other countries, they get more development money to support them.

Didn't they get refused a chance to go to the last olympics for being lily white? Or was it the one before Beijing?

[ghoti]

Didn't they get refused a chance to go to the last olympics for being lily white? Or was it the one before Beijing?

Wasnt that the womans hockey or netball or something? Remember reading about that. I dont think the team was lilly white, but it didnt meet quotas.

[SinghDude]

It was the mens hockey team.

[R13...]

Wasnt that the womans hockey or netball or something? Remember reading about that. I dont think the team was lilly white, but it didnt meet quotas.

It was the men's hockey and it was lily white iirc.

[Pr⊕phet]

First it was Banyana's dismal showing against Sweden and Canada (They lost both games 4 -1 and 3 -0)
Then the ladies Hockey team got trashed by Argentina ( 7-1). The men's hockey team also got thrashed by Australia (6 -0).
My problem is these are team sports and probably use up the majority of the budget and yet don't seem to have any hope of achieving any silverware. Maybe we need to re-focus our attention on individual events. It will cost less and they will have more resources for intensive preparation. What do you guys think?

Our soccer had a chance ? looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooool ?

I would say that maybe they should stop with " wow we made the olympics " and switch over to " we've made it, but we are leaving with a medal ". Quite a difference in just going because you are there vs going for gold...

[waynegohl]

Some people seem to think that the Olympics are a learning curve which is utter BS. The learning curve should be all those other international events that South Africa SHOULD be taking part in. The Olympics are not the time to learn anything, the Olympics are about the best in the world competing for gold medals etc and sending a team of 100 athletes to hopefully get 12 medals is a disgrace and a waste of time and money and a slap in the face of every South African. You cannot take a bunch of hopefuls to such an event and expect those hopefuls to carry this experience over to the next game in 4 years time, you need to train people in every event possible and let them compete in every event out there so when the next games come around you send ONLY THE BEST to compete ON ALL FRONTS.

[za1]

Some people seem to think that the Olympics are a learning curve which is utter BS. The learning curve should be all those other international events that South Africa SHOULD be taking part in. The Olympics are not the time to learn anything, the Olympics are about the best in the world competing for gold medals etc and sending a team of 100 athletes to hopefully get 12 medals is a disgrace and a waste of time and money and a slap in the face of every South African. You cannot take a bunch of hopefuls to such an event and expect those hopefuls to carry this experience over to the next game in 4 years time, you need to train people in every event possible and let them compete in every event out there so when the next games come around you send ONLY THE BEST to compete ON ALL FRONTS.


I disagree.
We send the best we have, its the spirit of the games and whatnot.
If you only want the best to compete, then we would have ,what, the China vs USA games?
So we don't win, pffft, at least we there trying.
Not that I enjoy tuning in and seeing our hockey down 800 - 0, but it could have been 801 :)

[Garson007]

We should send all those that qualify. It's up to the athletes to then step up or not. Who cares if their only realistic chance is having an extended holiday, they qualified for the event and therefore they should be there. They are still fitter, faster, more talented and more skilful than the lot of you.

[Pr⊕phet]

Some people seem to think that the Olympics are a learning curve which is utter BS. The learning curve should be all those other international events that South Africa SHOULD be taking part in. The Olympics are not the time to learn anything, the Olympics are about the best in the world competing for gold medals etc and sending a team of 100 athletes to hopefully get 12 medals is a disgrace and a waste of time and money and a slap in the face of every South African. You cannot take a bunch of hopefuls to such an event and expect those hopefuls to carry this experience over to the next game in 4 years time, you need to train people in every event possible and let them compete in every event out there so when the next games come around you send ONLY THE BEST to compete ON ALL FRONTS.

That.

[sand_man]

I disagree.
We send the best we have, its the spirit of the games and whatnot.
If you only want the best to compete, then we would have ,what, the China vs USA games?
So we don't win, pffft, at least we there trying.
Not that I enjoy tuning in and seeing our hockey down 800 - 0, but it could have been 801 :)

Mmmm, I don't know. I mean I saw some pretty small teams of only 4 or 5 athletes at that opening ceremony. I think we may as well fall into that category.

[thestaggy]

When you are picked for your country you should give your utmost best to do and be the best. Not long ago i remember we where doing well in Hockey both mens and womens teams and also netball. Things have changed:(


I would say that maybe they should stop with " wow we made the olympics " and switch over to " we've made it, but we are leaving with a medal ". Quite a difference in just going because you are there vs going for gold...


Free holiday for some... Just no sense of pride or passion.


Rather embarassing.

Our hockey players are amateurs that have 9-5 jobs. The Aussies are pros. Even India has experimented with pro-hockey.

As for Banyana Banyana, let's look a their opposition;
1. Sweden - Home to a professional Women's league that has been in existence since 1973. The league is seen as one of, if not the best, women's league's in the world. Hell, UEFA has a women's champions league, in which Swedish clubs are the second most successful.
2. Canada - A nation that is exposed to the US collegiate scene - probably the best developmental system in women's football - and a nation that sees a number of it's players ply their trade in the Swedish club scene, which I've mentioned is pretty special.
3. Japan - Reigning World Champions and home to a professional league itself .

Banyana Banyana are amateurs and play on a continent which does not take women's football seriously. The coach said the state of competition in Africa is pathetic. You only have to play a few games against nations who barely put any effort in to qualify, so you go into a major competition ill-prepared and poorly tested. Not to mention our domestic scene does not have a pro-league and our university teams - the few we have - cannot even begin to be compared to the US collegiate scene.

We generally do well against lower tiered nations, ie at our level, but there is no way that we can be expected to be on par with nations with professional structures or highly developed development structures (US collegiate system).

Is it any different to rugby, where amateur and pro-am nations like Namibia, Georgia, Portugal, Uruguay, Spain and Russia get obliterated by tier one nations? By the above logic from Prophet and SinghDude we should tell Namibia off for being thrashed 87-0 by the 'Boks at the 2011 World Cup, because that is the kind of gulf in class we are looking at.

We will never win medals until our domestic structures and continental competitons/opponents are of the standard of successful nations/continents.

[swsup97]

The situation will not improve untill such time there is a proper development system in place for talented youth to come through the ranks and not just end at high school level , so much talent goes to waste due to the fact that there is very little structure in place to develop that talent and transform that talent into world class sportsman and sportswoman at all levels from junior right through to turning Pro.

[za1]

Free holiday for some... Just no sense of pride or passion.


Rather embarassing.

Oh really?
Every athlete we have sent is there on merit and has met or exceeded Olympic qualification.

Do you actually think any one of them hasn't tried their best and feel bad at losing early?

Even mighty Germany with all their money and investment in sport so far have only one silver to their name

Even UK, the hosts, still don't have a gold

[ISP cash cow]

geez, I think a little bit of support for your countries athletes would be nice!

Yes our groundroots development is disgusting for certain sports but these athletes are the best from our country in their respected fields and they did qualify for the games.

It is an opportunity for people to go and represent their country at one of the most prestigious sports events in the world and you are wanting them to turn around and say "well I may get blown away by the competition so lets not even try".

Just remember that they may be at the bottom of those 6 teams or players but they beat thousands of other athletes just to get there.

[Chris]

geez, I think a little bit of support for your countries athletes would be nice!

Yes our groundroots development is disgusting for certain sports but these athletes are the best from our country in their respected fields and they did qualify for the games.

It is an opportunity for people to go and represent their country at one of the most prestigious sports events in the world and you are wanting them to turn around and say "well I may get blown away by the competition so lets not even try".

Just remember that they may be at the bottom of those 6 teams or players but they beat thousands of other athletes just to get there.

Agreed. All the athletes who made it there fulfilled the criteria for entering. It's just like the Tour de France - even the person who came last is a champion in my eyes.

[Pr⊕phet]

Our hockey players are amateurs that have 9-5 jobs.
That is a nice, maybe I should use that excuse too if life gets hard. Some of ours starts at 7am and sometimes end up well past 5pm, however I still needs to deal with life outside work.

[a'zombi]

That is a nice, maybe I should use that excuse too if life gets hard. Some of ours starts at 7am and sometimes end up well past 5pm, however I still needs to deal with life outside work.

Does your life outside work involve competing with people that are the world's best at what they do? :erm:

[za1]

Does your life outside work involve competing with people that are the world's best at what they do? :erm:



as he is probably w@nking the answer would be yes :)

[Pr⊕phet]

Does your life outside work involve competing with people that are the world's best at what they do? :erm:

Oh dear. Not that, that must be worst than having to manage your time properly. We are surely a handout nation through and through...

[Albereth]

I am pretty sure that we left some people behind who really do deserve to go to the Olympics. Bringing home medals hasn't meant much in the past for me, and I doubt that it will in the future. However, take the Rugby World Cup - that matters to me because I am a fan. I go through the ups and downs every year. But the Olympics? Nope, I don't know these people at all. I have no emotional investment.

I'm happy for the individuals who get somewhere but it sort of ends there. Perhaps, if I was a big hockey fan I'd care.

And there are some sports that are just so out there (IMHO). Watching paint dry seems to be more entertaining than womens' epee. And the judo? Yawn! But as I said - maybe being a fan changes your view.

And it is probably the fans that contribute to the class of athlete that we get.

Doesn't explain why our football is as crap as it is but I suspect that the blame with soccer is at the administrator level.

[sand_man]

Agreed. All the athletes who made it there fulfilled the criteria for entering. It's just like the Tour de France - even the person who came last is a champion in my eyes.

Technically you correct but perhaps the qualification process is flawed in that sense.

I can't help but think some of our teams have qualified on the back of a weak qualifying group.

We see it in all world cup type events though. That's how you get a Afghanistan qualifying for a cricket world cup or a Namibia qualifying for a rugby world cup.

Being global events means allocating spots to teams all over the world and when the qualifying process involves beating competitors from your own continent, the possibility of qualifying for an event/tournament, but being out of your depth, is high.

[SinghDude]

Saffers should push for rugby and cricket to be olympic events.....


At least we will be in with a shout ....

[sand_man]

Saffers should push for rugby and cricket to be olympic events.....


At least we will be in with a shout ....

Wasn't 7's touted as an upcoming Olympic sport?

Yes, from the 2016 Olympics.

In Rio!!! Think I must go watch and grab a piece of Brazilian a$$ while I'm there. Finest in the world.

Talking of a$$ did anyone watch the Spain vs China womens waterpolo match? Spaniards swimwear was quite titillating.

[thestaggy]

That is a nice, maybe I should use that excuse too if life gets hard. Some of ours starts at 7am and sometimes end up well past 5pm, however I still needs to deal with life outside work.


Oh dear. Not that, that must be worst than having to manage your time properly. We are surely a handout nation through and through...

Are. You. Serious?

Right. I've just visited SA Hockey's site and viewed the men's profiles;

6 players come from Durban, 5 from Cape Town, 4 from Jo'burg, 2 from East London and 1 each from Kimberley, Pietermaritzburg & Pretoria.

With their locations in mind and the fact that these guys have to do other jobs to earn a living, how in the heck would you expect them to firstly train as a team and secondly train individually and reach a level of team cohesion and personal fitness that a bunch of pros would achieve? The fact that they are spread so far apart and have 9-5 jobs means it must be incredibly difficult to arrange training camps.

You are being a fool if you think a professional athlete does not have a significant advantage over an amateur, part-time athlete.

It has nothing to do with handouts and everything to do with the fact that professional athelets are paid to do what they do and spend their days training and practising. Amateurs are not paid to do what they do so they have to get jobs in order to live, decreasing the amount of time thay allocate to training and practising.

[thestaggy]

This gives great insight into why the Aussies excel at pretty much everything they do ;


By 1980 a proposed blueprint for future success had been accepted; the government committed to provide long term funding to establish a national centre of excellence - the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) – to be built in the nation's capital, Canberra, close to the seat of government. There the nation's best coaches and athletes representing those identified sports at which Australians might reasonably be expected to become future world leaders, would be housed. They would be provided with the medical, scientific and technological support necessary to insure that they became the best in the world.A nationwide sporting talent identification program was initiated so that most Australian school children are now screened for sporting talent whilst still at school.The mission of the AIS became to provide a “world class training environment to support AIS athletes and coaches."

In the first four year cycle between 1980 and 1984, government provided the AIS with the equivalent of about R500 million (in current terms).This produced a steep increase in the number of Olympic medals won from 5 and 9 in 1976 and 1980 respectively to 24 at the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics.By 1996 funding increased to about R2.0 billion per 4 year cycle, reaching closer to about R3.0 billion prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympics at which Australian athletes won 58 medals, their largest haul.Interestingly there has been a linear relationship between the amount of money spent each year by Australian sport and the number of medals won in Olympic competition.The wisdom in the words of a former CEO of the AIS, Olympic marathoner Deek de Castella has been proven:“Money in equals medals out”.


The AIS offers scholarships to about 700 athletes in 35 different sports each year.Scholarship athletes have the opportunity to live and train at identified sporting campuses whilst in contact with coaching staff, medical personnel and sports scientists for up to 6 months at a time.These programmes are integrated nationally to insure that knowledge is shared across all sporting disciplines wherever located in the national structure.


Whereas the work of the AIS was initially focused exclusively in Canberra and covered only 8 sports, in the past 25 years there has been a progressive expansion of expertise to all the Australian states and to many more sports.Thus there are currently 35 sports for which athletes can receive scholarships and centres of specialization now exist in most of the major Australian cities.

In addition, each state has its own Institute of Sport at which expertise comparable to that originally found only at the AIS in Canberra can be provided to athletes training either at the centre of specialization in that state or as individual scholarship athletes.


The AIS currently employs 75 official coaches in the supported sports. These coaches are distributed across Australia.In addition, there has been a concerted effort over the past 20 years to improve the quality of the medical, scientific and technological support given to scholarship athletes.As a result, the international standing of Australian sports medicine and sports science has risen dramatically especially in the past decade. Many would consider that currently Australian sports physicians, physiotherapists and exercise scientists are amongst the very best in the world.They are also in demand around the world with a least 40 recently re-locating to England, the next country that has begun to follow the Australian model.

Outside of football, rugby and cricket here, no sport receives substantial backing and investment. Nations like China (and before them the USSR) and the US also use the Olympics as political tools, so for them there is even greater incentive to succeed. And politics aside, the US probably has the most highly developed developmental structures in the world thanks to the quality of the NCAA athletic programmes. Ask yourself how many athletes train in the US? Swimmers and tennis players from around the world train in the US. Most of your swimmers and tennis players will be found in the US. We simply do not have the structures in place to match these nations at the Olympics.

[JungleBoy]

I am pretty sure that we left some people behind who really do deserve to go to the Olympics. Bringing home medals hasn't meant much in the past for me, and I doubt that it will in the future. However, take the Rugby World Cup - that matters to me because I am a fan. I go through the ups and downs every year. But the Olympics? Nope, I don't know these people at all. I have no emotional investment.

I'm happy for the individuals who get somewhere but it sort of ends there. Perhaps, if I was a big hockey fan I'd care.

And there are some sports that are just so out there (IMHO). Watching paint dry seems to be more entertaining than womens' epee. And the judo? Yawn! But as I said - maybe being a fan changes your view.

And it is probably the fans that contribute to the class of athlete that we get.

Doesn't explain why our football is as crap as it is but I suspect that the blame with soccer is at the administrator level.
Yes you have a point about some events being pretty boring to watch. However, no matter what the event is, as long as there is a South African taking part, I will watch and cheer all the way. Some of the events I can't even make out how the scoring works :o

[Chris]

This gives great insight into why the Aussies excel at pretty much everything they do ;









Outside of football, rugby and cricket here, no sport receives substantial backing and investment. Nations like China (and before them the USSR) and the US also use the Olympics as political tools, so for them there is even greater incentive to succeed. And politics aside, the US probably has the most highly developed developmental structures in the world thanks to the quality of the NCAA athletic programmes. Ask yourself how many athletes train in the US? Swimmers and tennis players from around the world train in the US. Most of your swimmers and tennis players will be found in the US. We simply do not have the structures in place to match these nations at the Olympics.

While I'm not disagreeing with you, it's quite interesting to note that both our gold medallists actually train in SA.

[AfricanTech]

I think that's idiotic.

Nice. Real mature of you there.

Consider the resources pumped into sending 15 people with little to no hope of progressing beyond the first round

[nivek]

First it was Banyana's dismal showing against Sweden and Canada (They lost both games 4 -1 and 3 -0)
Then the ladies Hockey team got trashed by Argentina ( 7-1). The men's hockey team also got thrashed by Australia (6 -0).
My problem is these are team sports and probably use up the majority of the budget and yet don't seem to have any hope of achieving any silverware. Maybe we need to re-focus our attention on individual events. It will cost less and they will have more resources for intensive preparation. What do you guys think?

wonder what massive salaries SASCOC officials take home

[AfricanTech]

Okay, having read through more of the posts, I'll modify - we should not send teams who have no realistic hope of making it past the first round.

And we should not (no disrespect to their dedication) send amateur teams - its a waste

[thestaggy]

First it was Banyana's dismal showing against Sweden and Canada (They lost both games 4 -1 and 3 -0)
Then the ladies Hockey team got trashed by Argentina ( 7-1). The men's hockey team also got thrashed by Australia (6 -0).
My problem is these are team sports and probably use up the majority of the budget and yet don't seem to have any hope of achieving any silverware. Maybe we need to re-focus our attention on individual events. It will cost less and they will have more resources for intensive preparation. What do you guys think?

For the period 2010/11 SASCOC(K) was given a budget of R17 million. SA Hockey was given R940,000 out of that for BOTH men and women. That money is also "ring-fenced", meaning it has to be used in a certain manner, and the primary area that money is put is in grass-roots development. After long-term sponsor Spar withdrew their funding, SA Hockey nearly went bankrupt in 2009 and had to beg for a grant from the National Lottery Board to make it. During 2009 the SA men's team had to pay their way to attend a training camp - R10,000 per player out of their own pockets - and they had to turn to ex-players to help source another R220,000 to fulfil their financial obligations as an association.

If you follow hockey you'd also be aware that it suffers more than any other sport with regards to our wonderful political interference in sport. The notorious 2000 Olympics when the men were blocked from attending for being to light? This political interference is also believed to have a hand in the tiny budget it receives and the way the association has to beg for more when times get tight, as they did in 2009. This also impacts sponsors, as who wants to put money into something when there's a chance they may not play?

In the lead-up to the this years Olympics financial support to SASCOC(K) was ramped up to R35 million over 2011/12, twice as much as for the previous period, BUT, our awesome minister of sport went and blew R46 million on the SA Sports Awards, a sum that was discovered to have been part of a far more impressive R73 million earmarked for the Olympic buildup. Yes, 60% of our Olympic budget went on a party. Only in South Africa.

By comparison, the Australian government pumped R3 billion into Australian sport in the four-year period (1996-2000) leading upt to the 2000 Games. Who knows what they spend now, but we get the idea. Granted SA cannot afford that, but it puts it all in perspective

SA Hockey still has no sponsor. One small relief being that Mr. Price offered to supply kits for free, albeit with no financial compensation, as is the norm in sporting apparel deals.

As we can see, in general, SASCOC(K)'s budget is limited and hockey does not get a huge slice of it. This is worsened by SASCOC(K) being a bunch of, well, cocks. Political wrangling has also done a fine job of harming hockey as well. I can only imagine it is the same, if not worse for other, lesser sports.