Do Christians believe that there is life on other planets? [Archive]

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Natas

11-12-2006, 03:22 PM

Seeing as how there are so many threads with religious content, please advise what the Christian view on whether there is life on other planets. Irrespective of what one's personal view might be, surely Christianity must be compatible with the possibility that life exists elsewhere, epsecially since the bible describes what might possibly be the landing of spaceships and encounters with aliens?

See The Book of Ezekiel 1:4 to 1:21.

(DmZ)Wrecky

11-12-2006, 03:24 PM

I do not believe it is a religious thing.

dotcat

11-12-2006, 04:02 PM

um Ezekial 1 vs 1 says and "I began to see visions of god"

They were clearly not real.

The bible does not say there are not aliens. Rather it mentions that gods purpose was that humans live happily on the earth. Why would he have created aliens on another planet if his purpose was for human beings to live on planet earth?

mancombseepgood

11-12-2006, 04:07 PM

It would be clearer...

I do believe in other beings - in the spirit world - certainly.

Natas

11-12-2006, 04:15 PM

It would be clearer...

I do believe in other beings - in the spirit world - certainly.

Ah..I see you have also smoked DMT...good stuff heh? but seriously..what do you mean by spirit world? where and what is this spirit world you speak of. I believe that there are definately spirits/beings which exist maybe in this plain, and another plain....is this what you mean?

Debbie

11-12-2006, 04:18 PM

If it were important it would be clearer....

....as clear as the bible is on the triune god, everlasting life, hell, original sin etc etc? Or would these things not be considered important enough to be clear about? :)

Sorry Onepostwonder, but a weak statement to make!

(perhaps it's time to consider a change of nick ;))

mancombseepgood

11-12-2006, 04:25 PM

....as clear as the bible is on the triune god, everlasting life, hell, original sin etc etc? Or would these things not be considered important enough to be clear about? :)

Sorry Onepostwonder, but a weak statement to make!

(perhaps it's time to consider a change of nick ;))

I think it is obvious that the Bible is clearer on these issues than life on other planets... let's be honest now...
As for triune god... well, there are explanations and there are explanations... It is sufficient for me to believe that Christ is the Son of God Almighty and he has been there from the beginning... and nothing that has been created was created without him...

mancombseepgood

11-12-2006, 04:29 PM

Ah..I see you have also smoked DMT...good stuff heh? but seriously..what do you mean by spirit world? where and what is this spirit world you speak of. I believe that there are definately spirits/beings which exist maybe in this plain, and another plain....is this what you mean?

The fact that man is more than flesh...
That although your body decomposes at the end of the day, there is another part to you that does not.
Just one example... (http://server.firefighters.org/catalog/2002/14059.mp3)

I.e. just cos you can't see it or prove it by man's understanding does not mean it doesn't exist.

mancombseepgood

11-12-2006, 04:30 PM

(perhaps it's time to consider a change of nick ;))
Lol - I guess so... this is my second...

Natas

11-12-2006, 04:34 PM

I think it is obvious that the Bible is clearer on these issues than life on other planets... let's be honest now...
As for triune god... well, there are explanations and there are explanations... It is sufficient for me to believe that Christ is the Son of God Almighty and he has been there from the beginning... and nothing that has been created was created without him...

What is this beginning? Here you are essentially referring to god as the uncaused cause. IE what we have in the universe are effects, ie creations, all of which have been caused by some cause. if you Follow this all the way back to the big bang, one argument for the existence of god is that god caused the big bang, the first of all effects/creatios in our universe. But then what caused god to come into existence. how can god have existed for all eternity.

the onyl explination for the existence of the universe which does not include god is that given enough time, then it is a mathematical improbability that the universe would not have come into existence. IE the argument that if you put a thousand monkeys in a room with a thouasnd type writers and if given enough time, one them banging on the keyboard randomly will one day have typed out the Lord of the Rings.

On the god argument, its very simple to say that god has existed for all time, but god MUST have his/its origin somewhere!!??

mancombseepgood

11-12-2006, 04:37 PM

What is this beginning? Here you are essentially referring to god as the uncaused cause. IE what we have in the universe are effects, ie creations, all of which have been caused by some cause. if you Follow this all the way back to the big bang, one argument for the existence of god is that god caused the big bang, the first of all effects/creatios in our universe. But then what caused god to come into existence. how can god have existed for all eternity.

the onyl explination for the existence of the universe which does not include god is that given enough time, then it is a mathematical improbability that the universe would not have come into existence. IE the argument that if you put a thousand monkeys in a room with a thouasnd type writers and if given enough time, one them banging on the keyboard randomly will one day have typed out the Lord of the Rings.

On the god argument, its very simple to say that god has existed for all time, but god MUST have his/its origin somewhere!!??

The beginning there is an explanation to the finite mind of time everlasting prior to the start of creation... http://bible.cc/john/1-1.htm

On the god argument, its very simple to say that god has existed for all time, but god MUST have his/its origin somewhere!!??
This is only because once again, the finite human mind cannot comprehend the spirit world and the human mind concedes that everything we see around us did not in fact always exist... therefore we attempt to apply this to the creator in our finite wisdom...
Indeed knowlege is about our finite brain... but...
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-13.htm

Of course... try telling your wife that logic and reason was the only thing that attracted you to her ;)
In fact - this logical strength displayed in men is actually a weakness when looking at it physiologically...
men are brain damaged before birth... did you know that... one of the huge differences between men and women happened before birth...
http://health.yahoo.com/experts/sexderogatis/2896/are-mens-and-womens-brains-different
Basically, in males, the wiring is different as a result of high levels of testosterone released into the system in the early stages of development... which is why men tend to divorce reason from emotion more than women...
Women tend to associate the two more closely... it can be a weakness and a strength in both cases, depending on how it is looked at.

Natas

11-12-2006, 04:44 PM

The fact that man is more than flesh...
That although your body decomposes at the end of the day, there is another part to you that does not.
Just one example... (http://server.firefighters.org/catalog/2002/14059.mp3)

I.e. just cos you can't see it or prove it by man's understanding does not mean it doesn't exist.

The existence of the soul.....not sure what my opinion on the existence of the soul is, please advice whether animals have souls?

However, if the soul does exist then it is not as many people may think it is. When I die, my sould will leave my body. My soul will NOT be an incorporeal version of myself shaped by my memmories, opinions, my soul will not be me. Rather the soul will be a form of pure conscisouness that transcends all forms of human thinking, a consciousness which is identical to other soles as it constitutes a small fragment of another larger soul, the collective (sub)conscious. This soul will then return to the source.

But then the question is where does the soul come from and when does it come to inhabit a specific human. As you mayor may not know, when a man and a woman love eachother they take of their clothes and boink (hehehe) the sperm feritilises the egg and the cells start to divide. for a while, the egg is a collection of unspecialised cells and only after some time does a human start to develop. At which point does the sole come to inhabit that collection of cells?

mancombseepgood

11-12-2006, 04:48 PM

The existence of the soul.....not sure what my opinion on the existence of the soul is, please advice whether animals have souls?
Soul or spirit? I believe the soul is more the intellect and the personality.. the spirit on the other hand is the part that keeps going...
As for animal's having souls... not sure what relevance this has... Certainly I don't have an answer to that.

mancombseepgood

11-12-2006, 04:50 PM

boink
I believe you mean bonk? :D
As for when the soul this or that... sorry, I don't have the answer

Nanfeishen

11-12-2006, 04:53 PM

Is there Life on this planet??:D
And irrespective of your belief , i think that for human beings to deny the possibility of life on other planets is being arrogant and rather ignorant.
All living beings , people and animals have souls, only some beliefs recognise both not all

Natas

11-12-2006, 04:55 PM

Soul or spirit? I believe the soul is more the intellect and the personality.. the spirit on the other hand is the part that keeps going...
As for animal's having souls... not sure what relevance this has... Certainly I don't have an answer to that.

I mean soul as in the spirit, the part of the human being which in terms of the bible survives the death of the body and goes to heaven or hell as the case may be.

The use of the word soul in relation to animals is used in the same way. DO animals have some kind of spirit or soul, that survive the death of the body. If not, then how through the same act of procreation, can humans come to have souls or spirits, whatever you prefer to call it, and animals do not. If humans have souls then surely animals must too.

mancombseepgood

11-12-2006, 04:58 PM

I mean soul as in the spirit, the part of the human being which in terms of the bible survives the death of the body and goes to heaven or hell as the case may be.

The use of the word soul in relation to animals is used in the same way. DO animals have some kind of spirit or soul, that survive the death of the body. If not, then how through the same act of procreation, can humans come to have souls or spirits, whatever you prefer to call it, and animals do not. If humans have souls then surely animals must too.

It's where man is created in God's image and likeness - animals are not... as for the physical evidence - well, I guess since the spirit is from a higher plain, it doesn't happen physiologically, but comes from the spirit realm... the reason animals and humans are the same in your mind is because you don't believe in the spirit realm...
As for animal's having souls - well just maybe they do and we don't know about it - but certainly I don't believe it is necessary to know for life after death.

mancombseepgood

11-12-2006, 05:02 PM

Highflyer_GP

11-12-2006, 05:02 PM

Given the sheer size of the universe, the laws of probability and the time-scale involved, I would say life most certainly exists elsewhere.

Nanfeishen

11-12-2006, 05:09 PM

mancombseepgood

11-12-2006, 05:18 PM

Highflyer_GP

11-12-2006, 05:19 PM

Mankind is generally a rather arrogant species, and often looks at the world or the universe as his to do with as he pleases, with no thought for the future , and no respect for the fellow inhabitants of this world, and this has largely come from the various religions that surfaced in the middle east, " to rule over the earth" and all that.

Yeah the idea that God created man in his image and created everything else to serve man is just plain arrogant and ignorant, if not utterly retarded. How would a skunk or dung beetle serve man for instance?

edit: I will take delight if we finally find proof of the existence of aliens, my question would then be whether God created aliens from other planets/stars/galaxies to serve us as well.

Nanfeishen

11-12-2006, 05:22 PM

What on earth has marxism got to do with it:confused:

Nanfeishen

11-12-2006, 05:24 PM

Breeding skunks may deter burglars and dung beetles should be let loose in Parliment they would thrive on all the Sh**. :D

mancombseepgood

11-12-2006, 05:29 PM

What on earth has marxism got to do with it:confused:

Mankind is generally a rather arrogant species, and often looks at the world or the universe as his to do with as he pleases, with no thought for the future , and no respect for the fellow inhabitants of this world, and this has largely come from the various religions that surfaced in the middle east, " to rule over the earth" and all that.
Listen to anyone who has had to spend time in a Russian / Romaian prison during WWII because they preached Christ... or for any other reason... and you get the feeling that eastern religious people are certainly not the only intolerant people on earth to say the least... arrogance and intolerance is common to all people - it's up to you whether you feed that or resist it.

jarr

11-12-2006, 05:52 PM

Yeah the idea that God created man in his image and created everything else to serve man is just plain arrogant and ignorant, if not utterly retarded. How would a skunk or dung beetle serve man for instance?
...well, i think the whole "to rule over the earth" thing was meant as god placing man (male and female) on earth to take care of it and all the other creatures he had made. more a case of man serving them, than the other way around, if you know what i mean.

that's my take on it, anyway :)

Highflyer_GP

11-12-2006, 06:13 PM

well, i think the whole "to rule over the earth" thing was meant as god placing man (male and female) on earth to take care of it and all the other creatures he had made. more a case of man serving them, than the other way around, if you know what i mean.

that's my take on it, anyway :)
Well that would make more sense if interpreted in that way. My question is why does everything have to be interpreted in different ways by different people? Why can't it just be a straightforward text?

dablakmark8

11-12-2006, 06:37 PM

Well that would make more sense if interpreted in that way. My question is why does everything have to be interpreted in different ways by different people? Why can't it just be a straightforward text?

if it was straight forward then we would of not had this thread in the first place.you dig man

Why cant the catholic churches in rome not give up the secrets,They bend around the truth,
They do know some of the answers that we asked in this thread.but will never ever give it straight up

Highflyer_GP

11-12-2006, 06:42 PM

Why cant the catholic churches in rome not give up the secrets,They bend around the truth,
They do know some of the answers that we asked in this thread.but will never ever give it straight up
Ah but therein lies your answer - is there something you should know that they would rather not have you know? And if so what are their reasons? Do they have ulterior motives? Do they fear people figuring out the truth for themselves?

IanC

11-12-2006, 07:14 PM

um Ezekial 1 vs 1 says and "I began to see visions of god"

Dude! how could you keep that weed to yourself, that's just selfish.

It would be clearer...

Oh! no you smoked it all ... you bastard!

The fact that man is more than flesh...

Doooooddd, You have been holding out on me.

Breeding skunks may deter burglars and dung beetles

C'mon where'd you stash it????????????

IanC

11-12-2006, 07:19 PM

Why cant the catholic churches in rome not give up the secrets,They bend around the truth,

I'm sure you meant THE Catholic Church ... there is only one NEAR Rome

Dude if you're going to dis the Catholic Church ... at least get the number right.

IanC

11-12-2006, 07:49 PM

Ah but therein lies your answer - is there something you should know that they would rather not have you know? And if so what are their reasons? Do they have ulterior motives? Do they fear people figuring out the truth for themselves?

Don't you think they've figured out the truth for themselves, is the truth as earth-shattering as you believe ... or is it earth-shattering just because of your belief?

jarr

11-12-2006, 07:49 PM

Highflyer_GP

11-12-2006, 08:31 PM

ever hear that old saying... 'god works in mysterious ways'? ;)
Too mysterious perhaps. Maybe if people would stop attributing every detail of their lives to God, they might gain the ability of independent thought ;)

Highflyer_GP

11-12-2006, 08:53 PM

Don't you think they've figured out the truth for themselves, is the truth as earth-shattering as you believe ... or is it earth-shattering just because of your belief?
Actually neither, I think that they're so brainwashed by the promise of hope or the fear of failure that they've lost the ability to think for themselves :)

IanC

11-12-2006, 09:43 PM

Actually neither, I think that they're so brainwashed by the promise of hope or the fear of failure that they've lost the ability to think for themselves :)

Oh cool then ... earth-shattering, it is :D

Nokkie

11-12-2006, 10:39 PM

i think there must be other life on planets just imagin this in out galaxy alone there are 100 mil mil mil mil stars and planets. and further away from our galaxy there are bil bil bil bil etc lightyears which is 9trillion km of gallaxys.

given that numbers im sure were not alone. maybe other forms of life tried to contact us, maybe we r looking in the wrong place, or maybe we are just to primitive for other being's that livved longer than us and has more knowlage then us maybe that the reason we still didn't recieve any contact yet?

what u guy's think?

PeterCH

11-12-2006, 10:55 PM

Found this little gem, from the RCC which typically gets bashed for being one
of the most backwards of Christian churches:

This time, Catholic church is ready: theologians see little problem if push to space yields discovery of life on other planets - Feature

John L. Allen, Jr.
When President George Bush announced an ambitious new $12 billion space program in mid-January whose lofty goals include putting humans once again on the moon and eventually on Mars, he said "The desire to explore and understand is part of our character."

What Bush did not add, however, is that also part of our character is feeling threatened by exploration and new understanding, a tendency at times especially pronounced in religious communities. From the Galileo case in the 17th century to the Scopes Monkey Trial in the early 20th, conflicts between religious belief and scientific discoveries have caused some of the most cataclysmic cultural earthquakes in Western history.

Yet Catholic experts say that if the "Bush push" into space does yield dramatic new discoveries--including the most sought-after finding of all, life on other planets--this time the church is ready.

"Christians have always understood that the entire cosmos is a creation of God, that any life anywhere is a divine creation," said Dominican Fr. Augustine Di Noia, undersecretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican's doctrinal oversight agency

"There would be absolutely no motive for scandal" if scientists were to establish the existence of life elsewhere, Di Noia told NCR Jan. 21.

Jesuit Fr. Gerald O'Collins of the Gregorian University agreed.

"I don't think the discovery of life on other planets would pose a qualitatively different challenge than the discovery of the New World," O'Collins told NCR. "Prior to the 15th century, people had on 5, the vaguest idea about human life on the other side of the Atlantic. Yet we survived that, and in the end it deepened our understanding of Christ as a truly universal savior."

Part of the reason, observers say, that the Catholic church is better positioned today to handle the intellectual strain of new scientific breakthroughs is because Pope John Paul II has tried to settle accounts with the past, most prominently the Galileo case.

Historical debate surrounding Galileo goes on, with some scholars insisting that the church never played the obscurantist role assigned to it in popular mythology Copernicus' 1543 book proposing the theory that the sun was at the center of things was dedicated to Pope Paul III, they point out, and Copernicus himself was considered for nomination as a bishop, a sign that no one regarded his ideas, which Galileo would later popularize, as heretical. The real debate, these historians say, was between scientists committed to the old Ptolemaic model of the universe and the new heliocentric model. Galileo's enemies, they say, dragged the church into this fight by making his stand appear as a challenge to ecclesiastical authority.

Such revisionism aside, John Paul convened a working group in 1981 to study the affair, and on Oct. 31, 1992, he received their work. The pope identified what he sees as the moral of the story.

"From the Galileo case," the pope said, "we can draw a lesson that is applicable today in analogous cases which arise in our times and which may arise in the future.... It often happens that, beyond two partial points of view which are in contrast, there exists a wider view of things which embraces both and integrates them."

In other words, there should be no conflict between religion and science --a perspective some say has deep Catholic roots.

Italian journalist Mario Gargantini, who writes on issues of faith and science, told a Jan. 13 seminar at Rome's Regina Apostolorum, a pontifical university, that medieval Christianity, often reviled as anti-intellectual, actually made the birth of modern science possible with its belief in the rationality and unity of the cosmos.

Aside from the well-worn example of Gregor Mendel, the 19th-century Augustinian monk who invented the science of genetics, Gargantini cited several other instances of Catholics who made contributions to science precisely because of their faith convictions. They include Niccolo Stenone, a 17th-century Catholic bishop and one of the founders of the modern discipline of geology (beatified in 1986 as part of John Paul's efforts at rap prochement with science); Francesco Faa di Bruno, a 19th-century priest and mathematician (canonized in 1988); and Giuseppe Moscati, a 19th- and 20th-century lay doctor (canonized in 1987).

None of this is to suggest that things are always harmonious between the church and science. Every time a medical researcher announces a new step toward human cloning, for example, church officials can be relied upon to serve up a disapproving response. The most recent example came Jan. 19, when U.S. doctor Panos Zavos claimed at a Lonaon press conference that he has implanted a cloned embryo in a woman's womb, and officials in the Vatican expressed dismay.

On a whole range of issues, from Alzheimer's research using fetal tissue to new and improved techniques of in vitro fertilization, the Vatican often plays the role of "Doctor No."

At the same time, however, the Vatican can sometimes be open to new scientific developments in ways that surprise those who regard it as a quasi-Luddite foe of new technologies. Over the past year, for example, the Vatican has taken a "proceed with caution" attitude on genetically modified organisms to the consternation of environmental groups, activists for Third World farmers, and even some Catholic bishops in Africa.

Gargantini said that where the church and science collide, it's sometimes because the church is playing a unique role in Western culture as the "conscience" of science. He cited the message delivered by Pope Paul VI on July 20, 1969--the day of the first moon landing--as an especially poignant example.

In his Angelus address that day, Pope Paul marveled at the technical accomplishment behind the moon landing, but warned against a possible "idolatry of technology" that risks trivializing the human person. The pope said that no technical wizardry can ever resolve the basic questions of "What is the human being?" and "What is good?"

The sang-froid theologians are showing today about space exploration may be sufficient for the kinds of life explorers are most likely to encounter: fledgling strains of plants or micro-cellular organisms. But what if a more "X-Files"-style scenario were to develop, in which rovers on Mars or elsewhere actually meet sentient, intelligent beings?

"If there are other persons in the universe, we can at least say that they too are involved in the same divine plan and are intended to share in the Trinitarian communion of life," Di Noia said.

If personal life were to be discovered, both Di Noia and O'Collins said it would require some theological tinkering, especially with the concept of original sin. How can persons on other planets share in the stain of guilt derived from Adam and Eve, from whom they are most probably not descended? Yet if they don't, what exactly is the condition from which Christ has redeemed them?

Di Noia said the prospect of encountering personal life is so remote, his instinct is to "worry about it when it happens." The most that can be said, he told NCR, is that all creatures in the universe are included in God's plan for salvation.

"We'd have to work on it a little bit, I suppose," O'Collins said. "But anyone who thinks the doctrine of original sin is more important than ***** being the universal savior already has their priorities out of line."

In the end, O'Collins said, if there are extraterrestrials, Christians can state with confidence that they too are saved by Christ, even if the question of saved from what will take some reflection.

Another perspective comes from Jesuit Fr. George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory, which has its headquarters in Castel Gandolfo, the pope's summer residence outside Rome, and research facilities in Arizona.

At the moment, scientists are working on a new generation of ultra-powerful telescopes that will be able to scan planets outside the earth's solar system for signs of life. The technology for this "Large Binocular Telescope" is based on a technique pioneered by the Vatican observatory team, so ironically, if extraterrestrial life is discovered though the lens of one of these instruments, it will have been the Catholic church that paved the way.

Coyne provocatively suggests that stars are like "God's sperm."

Every sperm has the potential to produce life, he says, but most of them never realize that goal. Like sperm, Coyne said in a 2003 interview, "each star is fired with a propensity for life, but there is no reason to think any of them have achieved this."

Yet even if life does exist elsewhere, Coyne said, it would involve no scm3dal to the faith. The universe itself, he said, is the real miracle.

Bottom line, according to the theologians: If the truth is indeed out there, we're ready.

John L. Allen Jr. is NCR's Rome correspondent. His e-mail address is jallen@natcath.org.

COPYRIGHT 2004 National Catholic Reporter
COPYRIGHT 2004 Gale Group

PeterCH

11-12-2006, 11:05 PM

Too mysterious perhaps. Maybe if people would stop attributing every detail of their lives to God, they might gain the ability of independent thought ;)

Not to bash you or anything but that's a very arrogant and incorrect view of Christians out there. I'm a scientist myself, I read research articles frequently, I'm also interested in astrophysics and wide ranges of technologies. I'm against the MPAA/RIAA/music cartels, against Microsoft and Windoze for being a monopoly and I think scientifically daily yet I do not
deny the presence of God and His love. I have experience of both
the old Commnist system and the current free-market one and I have
a wide range of opions about a variety of topics but so far I have not found
anything which denies God. I consider myself to be independent in though,
I don't follow the mainstream, eg I used an iPod when they were obscure
but now use a better obscure product. I have friends who range from
CEOs, Professors to janitors. I have friends who originate from each continent
on earth and every religion (or its lack).

Surely I'm not perfect but don't say
I'm not independent or something. I won't label YOU because I don't know you so please lay off the hypocrisy. :)

Highflyer_GP

11-12-2006, 11:26 PM

PeterCH

11-12-2006, 11:39 PM

I wasn't referring specifically to Christians Peter :) If I come across as arrogant for not agreeing with organised religion then I apologise, however if you take offense to me not agreeing with it then I can't help you there mate because I don't take offense to you not agreeing with me.

I don't mind atheists or whoever, I have friends IRL who are atheists but
I do mind (ok since this is the web maybe I shouldn't :) ), prejudicial opinions about other people because of their say... FAITH. I don't mind what you believe, you're an adult and you can believe what you want but please do not
rip other people off because of their beliefs. Yes I know you're free to ridicule and misunderstand anyone and everyone but do so at least for the correct reasons. :) I often find atheists criticisng theistic people because they consider them narrow-minded
yet the atheist in question behaves even worse than the fanatic "Bible-thumper". Not saying it's you, but your comment came
across as similar to such.

Highflyer_GP

11-12-2006, 11:46 PM

On the contrary I'm not trying to rip on anybody at all - merely sharing my point of view as somebody who was once religious.

Let's not kid ourselves - if you're a scientist then you know as well as I do that the idea of "God did it" is a very weak scientific hypothesis which contravenes the scientific method. As a scientist one only forms a hypothesis if they're confident to a certain degree that they'll be able to replicate it to a certain extent empirically and then modify their hypothesis until it is in accordance with observational and experimental results. Science is science, and religion is religion - no matter how much we'd love for them to coexist. One is founded on reason, the other is founded on faith. The two will almost never agree with each other.

LethalChicken

12-12-2006, 01:39 AM

As a roman catholic .... hell yea there is life on other planets. Considering the mess this planet is in, I'm sure this is one of God's trial runs. The 'real' people are many galaxies away on a much better version of the earth (with cheap ADSL)

And as far as the 7 day creation goes. Don't know why people have a problem mixing it with evolution.

In the early days people werent as educated as we are now, so if you started explaining evoluttion by using biology and geology/geomorphology you'd lose them right away. If you use the 7 day creation as a metaphor for evolution ... it works perfectly.

ajax

12-12-2006, 02:09 AM

The Bible does not mention specifically that G0d did not make any extraterrestrials, but it may be inferred from the Bible that there aren't any.

From http://www.creationdefense.org/67.htm
"This is a great question and I think it is incumbent upon Christians to be prepared to answer it. Amidst the fascination with science fiction, our world is in desperate need of reality. Millions of our tax dollars have been rocketed into outer space with the goal to find life "out there." What should we think about this and how should we respond? Of course, the best way to answer these questions is to ask the question: Does the Bible say anything about extraterrestrial life? Even though the Bible does not say specifically that there is not life "out there" I contend that the Bible definitely implies that extraterrestrial life cannot exist.

Starting with the very first verse of the Bible God tells us that He created everything there is. Professor of Systematic Theology Douglas Kelly writes: "'Heavens and earth' is a way of saying 'everything that exists,' whether galaxies, nebulae or solar systems; all things from the furthest reaches of outer space to smallest grain of sand or bacterial microbe on planet earth; absolutely everything was created by God."

Thus, if there were extraterrestrial life it would be created by God. Genesis chapter one gives us a specific account of God's six-day creation with no mention of such life. Of course, it does not specifically mention the creation of angels but we know they exist from their mention in the rest of the Bible. However, the absence of mentioning extraterrestrial life is no reason to believe it could have also been created, especially in view of the purposes of God's creation.

God's purposes are centered here on earth. Russell Griggs, in the September/November issue of Creation Ex Nihilo stated, "…factors such as the Fall, the Incarnation, the redemption of mankind through the once-only death and Resurrection of the Lord ***** Christ, the Second Coming of Christ to Earth, and the coming Judgment of all mankind, show Earth's unique importance among the billions of billions of stars in the universe." Also, it is only here on earth that you will find the one and only bride of the Creator of the universe: the church.

In addition, all that was created was created for man. Aureolus Paracelsus recognized this in 1541 when he said, "God did not create the planets, the stars with the intention that they should dominate man, but that they, like other creatures, should obey and serve him." Everything on earth and beyond earth was created for God's chief image-bearer of the entire cosmos: mankind. This teaching is antithetical to the thinking in our day. The value of mankind is demeaned in our society. It is fashionable to look at man as New Age teacher Deepak Chopra does: "a wiggle, a wave, a localized disturbance."

Some might argue that certain verses in the Bible imply extraterrestrial life. For example, in Mark 13:27, "And He will send His angels and gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens." Also, in John 10:16, "I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also…" Other verses sometimes used are Deuteronomy 30:4, Nehemiah 9:6 and Isaiah 24:21. These verses do not offer clear evidence of life beyond earth. They all most reasonably refer to either angels or different people on earth.

This amazing, orderly, beautiful universe was created to reflect these same attributes of its Creator. Earth is not a "rock floating about in outer space" but is the special homeplace for God's crown of creation. "The heavens are the Lord's, but the earth hath He given to the children of men." (Psalm 115:16) The uniqueness and special purpose of earth and mankind that are spelled out in the Bible leave no reason for the creation of extraterrestrial life.

So many today gaze at the stars with the reasoning, "Seems like an awful lot of empty space, so there must be life out there." Science fiction continues to foster these thoughts. Instead, as the psalmist gazes at the stars his thoughts are in amazement at the vastness of the power and variety of our creator: "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth His handiwork." (Psalm 19:1)

mancombseepgood

12-12-2006, 10:17 AM

if you're a scientist then you know as well as I do that the idea of "God did it" is a very weak scientific hypothesis which contravenes the scientific method.
While man made scientific method may be good for material proof, what makes you think it would be good for spiritual proof? And does not being able to prove anything scientifically make it false?

mancombseepgood

12-12-2006, 10:20 AM

Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson go on a camping trip. After a good dinner and a bottle of wine, they retire for the night, and go to sleep.
Some hours later, Holmes wakes up and nudges his faithful friend. "Watson, look up at the sky and tell me what you see."
"I see millions and millions of stars, Holmes" replies Watson.
"And what do you deduce from that?"
Watson ponders for a minute.
"Well, astronomically, it tells me that there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, I observe that Saturn is in Leo. Horologically, I deduce that the time is approximately a quarter past three. Meteorologically, I suspect that we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. Theologically, I can see that God is all powerful, and that we are a small and insignificant part of the universe. What does it tell you, Holmes?"
Holmes is silent for a moment. "Watson, you idiot!" he says. "Someone has stolen our tent!"
!

gunner

12-12-2006, 12:26 PM

How can a priest of the Catholic Church forgive your sins?

I do not understand this as far as I know you can only ask *****s to ask God to forgive your sins.

:o :p :D :)

Nick333

12-12-2006, 12:47 PM

God's purposes are centered here on earth. Russell Griggs, in the September/November issue of Creation Ex Nihilo stated, "…factors such as the Fall, the Incarnation, the redemption of mankind through the once-only death and Resurrection of the Lord ***** Christ, the Second Coming of Christ to Earth, and the coming Judgment of all mankind, show Earth's unique importance among the billions of billions of stars in the universe." Also, it is only here on earth that you will find the one and only bride of the Creator of the universe: the church.

I've read posts accusing atheists of arrogance.

What Christians are really saying is: "I'm not just a tiny collection of atom's bound to a rock orbiting an unassuming star located in some insignificant corner of an unimportant galaxy surrounded by hundreds of billions of other galaxies."

God made all that other stuff just so we could have a place to exist? Seriously, grow up. That crap sounds like a toddler bawling because it hasn't realized it's not the most person in the universe yet.

Claymore

12-12-2006, 12:51 PM

How can a priest of the Catholic Church forgive your sins?

I do not understand this as far as I know you can only ask *****s to ask God to forgive your sins.

:o :p :D :)

Priests are officially appointed agents of God on earth, and are tasked with certain duties and powers.

zaphod

12-12-2006, 01:36 PM

I've read posts accusing atheists of arrogance.

What Christians are really saying is: "I'm not just a tiny collection of atom's bound to a rock orbiting an unassuming star located in some insignificant corner of an unimportant galaxy surrounded by hundreds of billions of other galaxies."

God made all that other stuff just so we could have a place to exist? Seriously, grow up. That crap sounds like a toddler bawling because it hasn't realized it's not the most person in the universe yet.

It seems that a lot of people in this country believes that we are just a tiny collection of atoms an nothing more than that !!!!

That is one of the reasons why life is so cheap in South Africa !!!

Dastrix

12-12-2006, 04:36 PM

It seems that a lot of people in this country believes that we are just a tiny collection of atoms an nothing more than that !!!!

That is one of the reasons why life is so cheap in South Africa !!!

I don't agree with this. I think you would find that the vast majority of people who are committing these crimes have been raised religiously and beleive in an afterlife as well as God/***** IMO. Not that this lends itself to the crime, just that the devaluing of human life in this regard is not linked to removing god from the picture.

I'd hate to get new-age on everyone, but if you have ever seen the TV series Cosmos? It addresses a lot of these issues.

There are a few possibilities for life on other planets, either there is somewhere and we are just too far away to reach them in our lifetimes. Or we are the first lifeforms that have evolved to the point that we are able to to look for life, when we find life it may be insects or shrubberies or something else very rudimentary.

Removing god from the picture by no means de-values life to me, and another Carl-Sagan-ism: perhaps the point is not the search for a god or for people across the galaxy, it is the search for each other.

If you remove a god from the picture, all we are left with is ourselves, does that not make life and the time we have even more precious?

Captain Beer

12-12-2006, 04:59 PM

Priests are officially appointed agents of God on earth, and are tasked with certain duties and powers.

That's Vatican law, that ain't out the Bible mate ;)

Mr TB

16-12-2006, 08:20 PM

I don't agree with this. I think you would find that the vast majority of people who are committing these crimes have been raised religiously and beleive in an afterlife as well as God/***** IMO. Not that this lends itself to the crime, just that the devaluing of human life in this regard is not linked to removing god from the picture.

I'd hate to get new-age on everyone, but if you have ever seen the TV series Cosmos? It addresses a lot of these issues.

There are a few possibilities for life on other planets, either there is somewhere and we are just too far away to reach them in our lifetimes. Or we are the first lifeforms that have evolved to the point that we are able to to look for life, when we find life it may be insects or shrubberies or something else very rudimentary.

Removing god from the picture by no means de-values life to me, and another Carl-Sagan-ism: perhaps the point is not the search for a god or for people across the galaxy, it is the search for each other.

If you remove a god from the picture, all we are left with is ourselves, does that not make life and the time we have even more precious?

If there was nothing coming our way after this life why keep on living? The easiest way out of this mess is put a gun to your head and pull the trigger and you're out of it ditched 6 ft underground, but deep inside we all sense there is a life to come...that is why you keep going...

Highflyer_GP

16-12-2006, 08:25 PM

If there was nothing coming our way after this life why keep on living? The easiest way out of this mess is put a gun to your head and pull the trigger and you're out of it ditched 6 ft underground, but deep inside we all sense there is a life to come...that is why you keep going...
Your logic is mixed up - if there is indeed an eternal afterlife free of sin waiting for you after death, why don't you put a gun to your head?? If you're so sick of everything happening in our country, then why not go ahead and do it?

Mr TB

16-12-2006, 08:31 PM

Are you hunting me down, did I hurt your feelings concerning KIM CLEMENT. Where I pitch you pitch, are your nose still bleeding.

Please take steel drops they work faster than hunting me...

Highflyer_GP

16-12-2006, 08:33 PM

Are you hunting me down, did I hurt your feelings concerning KIM CLEMENT. Where I pitch you pitch, are your nose still bleeding.

Please take steel drops they work faster than hunting me...

Erm no it's a valid question, I don't want you to really go ahead and do it. Non-believers typically believe in making the most of your life. It's the believers who are so hung up on an afterlife. Seeing that you brought it up, why don't you do it if you really believe in such a marvelous afterlife?

Telkomisaloser

16-12-2006, 08:33 PM

I do believe that there could be life out there since the universe is infinite(as we think) surely there could be life on ONE of the planets

Highflyer_GP

16-12-2006, 08:34 PM

I do believe that there could be life out there since the universe is infinite(as we think) surely there could be life on ONE of the planets
A normal response from TIAL :eek:

We might be invaded tonight afterall :p

Telkomisaloser

16-12-2006, 08:40 PM

A normal response from TIAL :eek:

We might be invaded tonight afterall :p

Didn't you think I was capable of normal posts :confused: :D

Mr TB

16-12-2006, 08:43 PM

Great!!!...one comment and I got you buddies in here...You have to give credit.., shall I continue the gay issue that drives you mad or how do you think I should continue?

Highflyer_GP

16-12-2006, 08:46 PM

LOL are you admitting to trolling? In which case go ahead, knock yourself out ;)

PS: We were "in here" before you :p

Mr TB

16-12-2006, 08:55 PM

Erm no it's a valid question, I don't want you to really go ahead and do it. Non-believers typically believe in making the most of your life. It's the believers who are so hung up on an afterlife. Seeing that you brought it up, why don't you do it if you really believe in such a marvelous afterlife?

:) Really?, did you read what I typed properly?, it is build into you, otherwise there is no reason to fear death. You fear the unknown...

Have you ever an encounter in the fourth dimension?

Mr TB

16-12-2006, 08:58 PM

LOL are you admitting to trolling? In which case go ahead, knock yourself out ;)

PS: We were "in here" before you :p

But dead as a nail door nothin going on...:D :p

Telkomisaloser

16-12-2006, 09:03 PM

double post alert!!!!

Dastrix

17-12-2006, 08:41 AM

:) Really?, did you read what I typed properly?, it is build into you, otherwise there is no reason to fear death. You fear the unknown...

It is not built into you, it is programmed into you, like alost every other fear you have, it is something we learned both genetically and by observation and doctrine from our parents and peers.

If you had particularly evil parents who told you that there was a monster under your bed every night, you would believe this as a child, as you grew up you would know this is nonsense but the fear would more than likely still be around in your brain somewhere.

Just because you feel it doesn't make it fact. Feelings are chemical and can often be wrong.

And no, I don't have a sense that there is a life after this one, I have been told that there is, but warm fluffiness isn't fact.

Claymore

17-12-2006, 09:07 AM

That's Vatican law, that ain't out the Bible mate ;)

What about Peter then? Was he not appointed Christ's representative?

In any case, Christianity is not merely about what's in the Bible; the Bible was put into its current form long after Christianity began, and there are many tenets of Christianity that are NOT in the Bible.

LabAnimal

17-12-2006, 09:07 AM

would be an awful waste of space if there's no life out there!...

Mr TB

17-12-2006, 04:19 PM

would be an awful waste of space if there's no life out there!...

Space is only part of your perception... no waste...I believe..

Mr TB

17-12-2006, 04:23 PM

What about Peter then? Was he not appointed Christ's representative?

In any case, Christianity is not merely about what's in the Bible; the Bible was put into its current form long after Christianity began, and there are many tenets of Christianity that are NOT in the Bible.

TENETS- false teachings, is that what this word actually mean?

Claymore

17-12-2006, 06:08 PM

TENETS- false teachings, is that what this word actually mean?

"A tenet is any opinion, principle, dogma or doctrine which a person or group believes or maintains."

In other words, there are many beliefs and principles of Christianity that are not in the Bible.

Mr TB

17-12-2006, 07:19 PM

....as clear as the bible is on the triune god, everlasting life, hell, original sin etc etc? Or would these things not be considered important enough to be clear about? :)

Sorry Onepostwonder, but a weak statement to make!

(perhaps it's time to consider a change of nick ;))

DEUT:6v4 "Listen oh Israel the Lord our God the Lord is one!..."
A Jewish Rabbi commented on the fact of mentioning Gof 3 times in above.
My version "Listen oh Israel the Father, the Son and the Spirit is one!"

Mr TB

17-12-2006, 07:22 PM

"A tenet is any opinion, principle, dogma or doctrine which a person or group believes or maintains."

In other words, there are many beliefs and principles of Christianity that are not in the Bible.

No sir, there are many such false teachings pple would love to see in the Bible.

Claymore

17-12-2006, 09:30 PM

No sir, there are many such false teachings pple would love to see in the Bible.

That's a non-sequitur. You missed the point entirely.

Mr TB

18-12-2006, 08:50 AM

That's a non-sequitur. You missed the point entirely.

Do not understand the meaning but say the Pharisees included extra rules and regulations in the law that was not really part of the law, false teachiings, putting a yoke on the people's shoulders. One of the reasons J esus came... to break the yoke...

Claymore

18-12-2006, 09:27 AM

Do not understand the meaning but say the Pharisees included extra rules and regulations in the law that was not really part of the law, false teachiings, putting a yoke on the people's shoulders. One of the reasons J esus came... to break the yoke...

You're still missing the point. I'm not talking about the Old Testament, I'm talking about the New Testament, and how there's much more to Christianity than what is in the Bible.

Mr TB

18-12-2006, 09:40 AM

You're still missing the point. I'm not talking about the Old Testament, I'm talking about the New Testament, and how there's much more to Christianity than what is in the Bible.

Are that principles and policies based on the teachings as given in NT? If not they are false teachings sir and they are not from the Bible right? No I do not think I have it wrong...

simple_simon

18-12-2006, 09:44 AM

douwdouw noticing that you stay in the kempton park region, do you go to the blou rokkies kerk by any chance?

Claymore

18-12-2006, 11:08 AM

Are that principles and policies based on the teachings as given in NT? If not they are false teachings sir and they are not from the Bible right? No I do not think I have it wrong...

Now that's where you're wrong. Much of the early church was organised and decided on long before the New Testament existed. They could not base church doctrine on the New Testament, because the NT did not exist!

It was several hundred years before the NT was organised into anything like its current form, and that was done *by* the early church. There were subsequent revisions too, most notable being with the King James V version.

Mr TB

18-12-2006, 11:54 AM

douwdouw noticing that you stay in the kempton park region, do you go to the blou rokkies kerk by any chance?

i wear pants so i am not allowed, but i think you are a good candidate.

give your address then i come pick you up and take you there, Benoni is not far for where i stay...

Pr⊕phet

13-06-2007, 06:08 AM

i wear pants so i am not allowed, but i think you are a good candidate.

give your address then i come pick you up and take you there, Benoni is not far for where i stay...

resurrected ;)