MrJones
04-01-2007, 10:52 AM
Anyone trade online, and whats the best site to use?
View Full Version : Online Share Trading
vinesh
04-01-2007, 11:06 AM
https://www.scmb.co.za/Equities/index.html
ebendl
04-01-2007, 11:32 AM
www.psgonline.co.za for traditional shares.
www.gt247.co.za for CFDs.
The latter is a pretty smart service - you get a Java application for the actual trading which gives real time data. But margined trading (such as CFDs) is rather risky and not for everybody, though.
www.gt247.co.za for CFDs.
The latter is a pretty smart service - you get a Java application for the actual trading which gives real time data. But margined trading (such as CFDs) is rather risky and not for everybody, though.
MrJones
04-01-2007, 11:43 AM
thanks dudes, will check it out.
Pitbull
04-01-2007, 11:53 AM
I've always been interrested in share trading... any skills required...
Or can I just subscribe... Deposit money and trade ?
Or can I just subscribe... Deposit money and trade ?
MrJones
04-01-2007, 12:15 PM
Well from what I've seen there are some skills needed, but most of the sites offer some kind of guidance/tutorial.
noswal
04-01-2007, 12:16 PM
The 20 million abbreviations in the stock market put me off it
Pitbull
04-01-2007, 12:17 PM
The 20 million abbreviations in the stock market put me off it
Ok ... So lets say you have 1 specific share you want to trade... You just deposit money and sell/buy as you pls.... ?
Ok ... So lets say you have 1 specific share you want to trade... You just deposit money and sell/buy as you pls.... ?
jontyB
04-01-2007, 12:25 PM
Ok ... So lets say you have 1 specific share you want to trade... You just deposit money and sell/buy as you pls.... ?
Yeah, but you will need to know when to buy and sell. You should aim to profitable.
The thing with trading is you need to know the very basics, especially regarding cycles and trends. Once you understand how to read the graphs and figure out the difference between various indicators and forecasts, then you are on your way to trading nicely and cleverly.
Yeah, but you will need to know when to buy and sell. You should aim to profitable.
The thing with trading is you need to know the very basics, especially regarding cycles and trends. Once you understand how to read the graphs and figure out the difference between various indicators and forecasts, then you are on your way to trading nicely and cleverly.
CcD
04-01-2007, 12:29 PM
You need to open a trading account first and before you can deposit money you need to sign some forms and fax them back to your preferred trading site.
TesterMan
04-01-2007, 12:40 PM
You can do some dummy trading at https://secure.fin24.co.za/users/loginrequired.asp?login
Pitbull
04-01-2007, 12:48 PM
Yeah, but you will need to know when to buy and sell. You should aim to profitable.
The thing with trading is you need to know the very basics, especially regarding cycles and trends. Once you understand how to read the graphs and figure out the difference between various indicators and forecasts, then you are on your way to trading nicely and cleverly.
Sounds like a nice hobby.... Could be a tad expensive i guess.... But not as much as online Gambling I suppose...
The thing with trading is you need to know the very basics, especially regarding cycles and trends. Once you understand how to read the graphs and figure out the difference between various indicators and forecasts, then you are on your way to trading nicely and cleverly.
Sounds like a nice hobby.... Could be a tad expensive i guess.... But not as much as online Gambling I suppose...
Syndyre
04-01-2007, 12:57 PM
The odds should be better than with gambling if you know what you're doing at least.
Pitbull
04-01-2007, 12:58 PM
The odds should be better than with gambling if you know what you're doing at least.
That's what I was thinking... @ least you lose on % and not on an All In...lmao
That's what I was thinking... @ least you lose on % and not on an All In...lmao
ebendl
04-01-2007, 09:14 PM
Yeah - you deposit money into your stock broker's bank account, it appears on your account (and online), you select your stocks, how much you want and your money disappear. Until you sell what you have, hopefully at a higher price than you bought it for, and the money re-appears in your online account. You can also withdraw money (hopefully profits!) :) The day of the Wallstreet trading floors with people shouting and waving little pieces of paper around are long gone!
GT247 works a bit differently - read up on CFDs and margined trading (there are articles on their website). It comes down to the same basic process, though.
I have a few investments in the stock market, controlled by myself. My father 'retired' at 45 and plays the stock market for a living now.
Now I don't want to put anyone off, but it is HARD. Markets can turn at any time and you need a LOT of time and commitment to really make a worthwhile profit.
One of my university engineering lecturers (a professor) basically decided the stock market is just short of a random thing. Although not true, it can easily seem that way.
You MUST start with a dummy account!! Both the sites I mentioned offers you this - the GT247 is even smarter in the fact that it still gives you real time information. It also 'simulates' your brokerage costs - which can be quite a portion.
This brings me to another point - if you want to invest seriously (or at all), you need around R10 000 per share, and ideally you want 7 or more shares (this is chosen on the fact that there are around 7 sectors, depending on how you look at it). NEVER PUT ALL YOUR MONEY INTO ONE SHARE! Diversify. IT can easily take a knock while resources is running. All the sectors (financials, resources, IT, media, food, property, industrial) can be connected to each other, so a basic sense of economics may be necessary.
The reason for R10 000 is that you need to cover your brokerage costs - can be anything from R150 to R300 per trade (buying or selling of normal shares, the CFDs work a little differant). This means that if you're buying R10 000 of say Anglo, you are already spending R400 or more on brokerage, which is 4%. Thus, to make a profit more substantial than say a savings account, your need to do way more than that just to cover your brokerage fees. There is no point in trying with 1 or 2 thousand - you would need to do 40% or 20% per trade to just break even (which is harder than it seems!)
What usually happens (and I mean no disrespect, but this happens a lot) is that some people either buy shares or receive a huge amount from stock options. Then, having no idea what really goes on, they hear some rumors in the office or at dinner parties (for example, that this or that share is the one to invest in now. This usually happens when the market has had its run, so shortly after everyone buys the favorite share, it crashes. So they put all their money into one account, loose it and get put off from stock market investment for good.
There are also a few approaches to buying, selling and choosing shares. You could buy small, upcoming companies and take very high risks (but huge potential profits) or you could stick to the favorite companies (with lower risk, but lesser profits). You could look at a fundamental approach (thus looking at the company itself, what they do, how good do they do it, who are their competitors etc.) or you could try a more technical approach (looking at the share price, trends, indicators, technical analysis patterns etc.).
Also look at good risk strategies (stop-loss orders etc.). Generally, it is just necessary to find a system that works, and stick with it. Do your research - otherwise you WILL be disappointed and probably never play again. You can try day-trading (climbing in and out of the market within a short period of time, such as a day or week), but most success-stories are long-term approaches (a few years!)
Also, if you just want to have a bit of fun - play with the monopoly money simulators (you usually get R100 000). A few friends and myself had a competition for a year running using the simulator to see who was the best investor.
Apologies for the long post - just wanted to give my piece of free information. :)
Just for interest sake - Warren Buffet made around 22% average per year profit (mostly with businesses and the stock market) - and he is the second richest man in the world. :)
GT247 works a bit differently - read up on CFDs and margined trading (there are articles on their website). It comes down to the same basic process, though.
I have a few investments in the stock market, controlled by myself. My father 'retired' at 45 and plays the stock market for a living now.
Now I don't want to put anyone off, but it is HARD. Markets can turn at any time and you need a LOT of time and commitment to really make a worthwhile profit.
One of my university engineering lecturers (a professor) basically decided the stock market is just short of a random thing. Although not true, it can easily seem that way.
You MUST start with a dummy account!! Both the sites I mentioned offers you this - the GT247 is even smarter in the fact that it still gives you real time information. It also 'simulates' your brokerage costs - which can be quite a portion.
This brings me to another point - if you want to invest seriously (or at all), you need around R10 000 per share, and ideally you want 7 or more shares (this is chosen on the fact that there are around 7 sectors, depending on how you look at it). NEVER PUT ALL YOUR MONEY INTO ONE SHARE! Diversify. IT can easily take a knock while resources is running. All the sectors (financials, resources, IT, media, food, property, industrial) can be connected to each other, so a basic sense of economics may be necessary.
The reason for R10 000 is that you need to cover your brokerage costs - can be anything from R150 to R300 per trade (buying or selling of normal shares, the CFDs work a little differant). This means that if you're buying R10 000 of say Anglo, you are already spending R400 or more on brokerage, which is 4%. Thus, to make a profit more substantial than say a savings account, your need to do way more than that just to cover your brokerage fees. There is no point in trying with 1 or 2 thousand - you would need to do 40% or 20% per trade to just break even (which is harder than it seems!)
What usually happens (and I mean no disrespect, but this happens a lot) is that some people either buy shares or receive a huge amount from stock options. Then, having no idea what really goes on, they hear some rumors in the office or at dinner parties (for example, that this or that share is the one to invest in now. This usually happens when the market has had its run, so shortly after everyone buys the favorite share, it crashes. So they put all their money into one account, loose it and get put off from stock market investment for good.
There are also a few approaches to buying, selling and choosing shares. You could buy small, upcoming companies and take very high risks (but huge potential profits) or you could stick to the favorite companies (with lower risk, but lesser profits). You could look at a fundamental approach (thus looking at the company itself, what they do, how good do they do it, who are their competitors etc.) or you could try a more technical approach (looking at the share price, trends, indicators, technical analysis patterns etc.).
Also look at good risk strategies (stop-loss orders etc.). Generally, it is just necessary to find a system that works, and stick with it. Do your research - otherwise you WILL be disappointed and probably never play again. You can try day-trading (climbing in and out of the market within a short period of time, such as a day or week), but most success-stories are long-term approaches (a few years!)
Also, if you just want to have a bit of fun - play with the monopoly money simulators (you usually get R100 000). A few friends and myself had a competition for a year running using the simulator to see who was the best investor.
Apologies for the long post - just wanted to give my piece of free information. :)
Just for interest sake - Warren Buffet made around 22% average per year profit (mostly with businesses and the stock market) - and he is the second richest man in the world. :)
Syndyre
04-01-2007, 09:21 PM
That's what I was thinking... @ least you lose on % and not on an All In...lmao
Lol true, and even when you lose there's a chance of getting it back by just waiting. ;)
Lol true, and even when you lose there's a chance of getting it back by just waiting. ;)
asmith
04-01-2007, 10:10 PM
Also check out Sharenet, they generally seem to offer more and also work with a number of brokers.
http://www.sharenet.co.za/v3/trade/
http://www.sharenet.co.za/v3/trade/
ebendl
04-01-2007, 10:21 PM
Also check out Sharenet, they generally seem to offer more and also work with a number of brokers.
http://www.sharenet.co.za/v3/trade/
They're also good for getting end-of-day data if you have a trading application such as Metastock (and can't afford real-time prices).
http://www.sharenet.co.za/v3/trade/
They're also good for getting end-of-day data if you have a trading application such as Metastock (and can't afford real-time prices).
lilDeath
05-01-2007, 12:21 AM
Anyone trade online, and whats the best site to use?
Yes, to me Standarbank's online trading (URL posted already) is the better option, plus their fees are not bad compared to the others. ABSA also recently launched online trading, don't know how they are though, but fees are nto bad IIRC. Do some research, almost all of them charge differently for their brokerage fees. As ebendl mentioned, it eats into your profit.
Ok ... So lets say you have 1 specific share you want to trade... You just deposit money and sell/buy as you pls.... ?
Telkom? :eek: :sick:
Traitor! :D
Yes, to me Standarbank's online trading (URL posted already) is the better option, plus their fees are not bad compared to the others. ABSA also recently launched online trading, don't know how they are though, but fees are nto bad IIRC. Do some research, almost all of them charge differently for their brokerage fees. As ebendl mentioned, it eats into your profit.
Ok ... So lets say you have 1 specific share you want to trade... You just deposit money and sell/buy as you pls.... ?
Telkom? :eek: :sick:
Traitor! :D
Pitbull
05-01-2007, 07:49 AM
@ ebendl: thanx man very informative.
@ LilDeath: Come on you should know better than that.
Another question I have... It's very hard to trade shares during the day at the office. Seeing that trading in SA is only 08:00 - 17:00. Now i was wondering the following.
Would it be possible to trade shares in the US. Reason I'm asking is this. @ 17:00 in SA it's something like 12:00 or there about in the US. This would make my time @ home to do the trading.
Another thing. Can one trade SA shares via the US market ? Once again it's because of the time difference.
@ LilDeath: Come on you should know better than that.
Another question I have... It's very hard to trade shares during the day at the office. Seeing that trading in SA is only 08:00 - 17:00. Now i was wondering the following.
Would it be possible to trade shares in the US. Reason I'm asking is this. @ 17:00 in SA it's something like 12:00 or there about in the US. This would make my time @ home to do the trading.
Another thing. Can one trade SA shares via the US market ? Once again it's because of the time difference.
lilDeath
05-01-2007, 08:10 AM
Don't see it making any difference, when our market is closed, it is closed, no matter where you going to come from. Same goes for us wanting to trade with US / EU / Asia shares. If their markets are closed we cannot trade either.
Why you think they always have the different timezone clocks for the different bourses in the movies? ;)
To show you when the markets open :)
Why you think they always have the different timezone clocks for the different bourses in the movies? ;)
To show you when the markets open :)
Pitbull
05-01-2007, 08:20 AM
Don't see it making any difference, when our market is closed, it is closed, no matter where you going to come from. Same goes for us wanting to trade with US / EU / Asia shares. If their markets are closed we cannot trade either.
Why you think they always have the different timezone clocks for the different bourses in the movies? ;)
To show you when the markets open :)
Sweet... So I would be able to trade US shares then... Only problem with that is $..... but then again...your provit if any is also $
Why you think they always have the different timezone clocks for the different bourses in the movies? ;)
To show you when the markets open :)
Sweet... So I would be able to trade US shares then... Only problem with that is $..... but then again...your provit if any is also $
telkomsuig
05-01-2007, 08:55 AM
Another thing. Can one trade SA shares via the US market ? Once again it's because of the time difference.
I started trading on the Us market last year. At first I battled to find a broker willing to accept non-US clients and then stumbled on www.firstrade.com in an article on smartmoney.
They have very love fees and it is a fixed dollar amount. They also don't charge monthly "admin" fees like the local brokers do.
To fund the account you need to get SARB approval though (using your offshore allowance).
I started trading on the Us market last year. At first I battled to find a broker willing to accept non-US clients and then stumbled on www.firstrade.com in an article on smartmoney.
They have very love fees and it is a fixed dollar amount. They also don't charge monthly "admin" fees like the local brokers do.
To fund the account you need to get SARB approval though (using your offshore allowance).
Pitbull
05-01-2007, 09:00 AM
SARB approval though (using your offshore allowance).
Sorry but I have no idea what this means...:D
Sorry but I have no idea what this means...:D
telkomsuig
05-01-2007, 09:09 AM
Every south african has a foreign investment allowance of R2Mil. (Used to be R750 000). To use it or part of it all you have to do is fill in an application to SARS and get tax clearance from SARS. You can then open a foreign currency bank account at most banks in SA or abroad if you prefer.
Using this account you can trasfer money into your trading account using wire ("Swift") trasfers.
Hope it helps.
Using this account you can trasfer money into your trading account using wire ("Swift") trasfers.
Hope it helps.
Pitbull
05-01-2007, 09:10 AM
Every south african has a foreign investment allowance of R2Mil. (Used to be R750 000). To use it or part of it all you have to do is fill in an application to SARS and get tax clearance from SARS. You can then open a foreign currency bank account at most banks in SA or abroad if you prefer.
Using this account you can trasfer money into your trading account using wire ("Swift") trasfers.
Hope it helps.
Now this is the info I need... Ty so much telkomsuig.... U rock.
Using this account you can trasfer money into your trading account using wire ("Swift") trasfers.
Hope it helps.
Now this is the info I need... Ty so much telkomsuig.... U rock.
MrJones
05-01-2007, 09:25 AM
Thanks for the information guys, looks like I'm going to have to do alot more research on this.
TesterMan
05-01-2007, 10:34 AM
You can also do some fairly passive share investment at http://www.satrix.co.za/default/home/
Lump sum or form R300 per month.
Lump sum or form R300 per month.
lilDeath
05-01-2007, 11:12 AM
You can also do some fairly passive share investment at http://www.satrix.co.za/default/home/
Lump sum or form R300 per month.
Good one Testerman, forgot about this one.
It's not just one share but comprises of the top40 performing shares, for instance. Definitely worthwhile if you dont want to get actively involved or be plagued with the ins and outs.
Lump sum or form R300 per month.
Good one Testerman, forgot about this one.
It's not just one share but comprises of the top40 performing shares, for instance. Definitely worthwhile if you dont want to get actively involved or be plagued with the ins and outs.
Prof.Merlin
08-03-2007, 08:17 AM
I work for a company that is like a sub-broker of psg-online(www.psgonline.co.za). They are quite good. i dont know much about it since i only do it support for the sub-broker
kiepie
09-03-2007, 07:09 AM
Well like they mentioned it before the stock market is really diversified.
Go can go into your normal shares like the Anglos, Billitons or Sasols.
But then there is also derivatives, like warrants and barrier stocks that is hedged to an underlying share like Sasol. But let me warn you, with a lot more risk involved.
The reason I say that is because when Sasol for an example can move up to 5% a day, up or down, a warrants ratio that’s linked to Sasol is much more.
So if Sasol comes down with 5% a warrant can easily fall 30-60%. Depending on all the variables like strike price, expiry date ect.
But if Sasol shares climb the warrant can also increase with 30-60%.
I would recommend if you buying share, being on the share page to watch your shares isn't that necessary. That would be a long term decision.
But if you go into warrants or similar products, watching the shares is crucial, for anything can happen. (Like the beginning of last week example).
Warrants moving with a share are called "call" warrants and warrants moving against a share are called "puts" warrants. So even if the stock markets fall you can make a huge profit.
Go and have a look at the link I posted, any see what I mean about profiting from share and make a return of more than 150% in a week.
Please note this is a much more risky option and wont advice you if you are retiring in the next few year, but if you want to make a quick buck with knowing what’s going on, why not?
And the brokerage on warrants is also much cheaper. Standard bank charges about R60, that UST and Tax and stuff included.
Alsi 40 (top 40 blue chip stocks on the JSE)
http://free.sharenet.co.za/free/spot_graphs.phtml?sharename=JH-ALSI40&scheme=default
TOPDWJ (a barrier warrant that moves against the Alsi, hence a put warrant)
http://www.sharenet.co.za/v3/quickshare.php?scode=TOPDWZ
Go can go into your normal shares like the Anglos, Billitons or Sasols.
But then there is also derivatives, like warrants and barrier stocks that is hedged to an underlying share like Sasol. But let me warn you, with a lot more risk involved.
The reason I say that is because when Sasol for an example can move up to 5% a day, up or down, a warrants ratio that’s linked to Sasol is much more.
So if Sasol comes down with 5% a warrant can easily fall 30-60%. Depending on all the variables like strike price, expiry date ect.
But if Sasol shares climb the warrant can also increase with 30-60%.
I would recommend if you buying share, being on the share page to watch your shares isn't that necessary. That would be a long term decision.
But if you go into warrants or similar products, watching the shares is crucial, for anything can happen. (Like the beginning of last week example).
Warrants moving with a share are called "call" warrants and warrants moving against a share are called "puts" warrants. So even if the stock markets fall you can make a huge profit.
Go and have a look at the link I posted, any see what I mean about profiting from share and make a return of more than 150% in a week.
Please note this is a much more risky option and wont advice you if you are retiring in the next few year, but if you want to make a quick buck with knowing what’s going on, why not?
And the brokerage on warrants is also much cheaper. Standard bank charges about R60, that UST and Tax and stuff included.
Alsi 40 (top 40 blue chip stocks on the JSE)
http://free.sharenet.co.za/free/spot_graphs.phtml?sharename=JH-ALSI40&scheme=default
TOPDWJ (a barrier warrant that moves against the Alsi, hence a put warrant)
http://www.sharenet.co.za/v3/quickshare.php?scode=TOPDWZ
casimiro
08-04-2008, 02:07 PM
WWW.IQUOTETRADING.CO.ZA
let them show you there presentation......cant go wrong!!!
let them show you there presentation......cant go wrong!!!
BrandonH
12-04-2008, 08:02 PM
I've traded foreign exchange for the last 2 years and have been making a comfortable second income. It takes a lot of practise though.
Sly21C
18-04-2008, 08:50 AM
Anyone trade online, and whats the best site to use?
I lost about 30% of my money that I've put in to trade online, it's definetely better to have a qualified broker or consultant to advise you on which share you should choose or buy.
I lost about 30% of my money that I've put in to trade online, it's definetely better to have a qualified broker or consultant to advise you on which share you should choose or buy.
Prof.Merlin
18-04-2008, 09:00 AM
I work for a stock broking firm. All our clients have access to a broker to trade, or they can trade online. We made a deal with PSG online. All our clients can trade on their website :)
xrapidx
18-04-2008, 09:04 AM
I lost about 30% of my money that I've put in to trade online, it's definetely better to have a qualified broker or consultant to advise you on which share you should choose or buy.
Use a practice account first.... I've made R10,000 off R100,000 :p
Use a practice account first.... I've made R10,000 off R100,000 :p
Prof.Merlin
18-04-2008, 09:07 AM
I basically sit next to my boss. And he goes on the whole day about what a good share is to buy or what to sell.
He busy with a client now, has doubled his porfolio for him in the past year. And another client that deposited something like R500 000 and is not sitting on R2 000 000.
So i think he is pretty good!
He busy with a client now, has doubled his porfolio for him in the past year. And another client that deposited something like R500 000 and is not sitting on R2 000 000.
So i think he is pretty good!
Sly21C
18-04-2008, 03:55 PM
Use a practice account first.... I've made R10,000 off R100,000 :p
...you made R10 000 from R100 over a period of how many years?
I started trading online in January last year, my portfolio grew by about 50% last year alone, and then this year in January the sub-prime mortgage crises cancelled the gains I've accomplished last year and more. The mistake I made was to be arrogant and act invincible (because my portfolio grew by 50% last year) and I put all my money by buying shares in one company as I was convinced that the company's shares will grow quicker, but instead they declined quicker.
I've leaned my lesson, and at 23 years old, I'm not stressing about the money I lost.
...you made R10 000 from R100 over a period of how many years?
I started trading online in January last year, my portfolio grew by about 50% last year alone, and then this year in January the sub-prime mortgage crises cancelled the gains I've accomplished last year and more. The mistake I made was to be arrogant and act invincible (because my portfolio grew by 50% last year) and I put all my money by buying shares in one company as I was convinced that the company's shares will grow quicker, but instead they declined quicker.
I've leaned my lesson, and at 23 years old, I'm not stressing about the money I lost.
xrapidx
18-04-2008, 03:58 PM
...you made R10 000 from R100 over a period of how many years?
Two weeks - it was R10,000 from R100,000 <--- but with play money...on itrade.
Two weeks - it was R10,000 from R100,000 <--- but with play money...on itrade.
Prof.Merlin
18-04-2008, 03:58 PM
...you made R10 000 from R100 over a period of how many years?
I started trading online in January last year, my portfolio grew by about 50% last year alone, and then this year in January the sub-prime mortgage crises cancelled the gains I've accomplished last year and more. The mistake I made was to be arrogant and act invincible (because my portfolio grew by 50% last year) and I put all my money by buying shares in one company as I was convinced that the company's shares will grow quicker, but instead they declined quicker.
I've leaned my lesson, and at 23 years old, I'm not stressing about the money I lost.
What share did you buy?
I started trading online in January last year, my portfolio grew by about 50% last year alone, and then this year in January the sub-prime mortgage crises cancelled the gains I've accomplished last year and more. The mistake I made was to be arrogant and act invincible (because my portfolio grew by 50% last year) and I put all my money by buying shares in one company as I was convinced that the company's shares will grow quicker, but instead they declined quicker.
I've leaned my lesson, and at 23 years old, I'm not stressing about the money I lost.
What share did you buy?
Sly21C
18-04-2008, 04:00 PM
What share did you buy?
Basil Read Holdings Ltd, why do you ask?
Basil Read Holdings Ltd, why do you ask?
Prof.Merlin
18-04-2008, 04:12 PM
It did quite well. Then something bad happened in mid november.
http://www.psynet.co.za/bsr.JPG
http://www.psynet.co.za/bsr.JPG
Sly21C
18-04-2008, 04:14 PM
It did quite well. Then something bad happened in mid november.
http://www.psynet.co.za/bsr.JPG
Yep, then it went up again in December before it went down again towards the end of December, that's when I bought the shares (buying low) convinced that I'll make a killing but I was wrong.
http://www.psynet.co.za/bsr.JPG
Yep, then it went up again in December before it went down again towards the end of December, that's when I bought the shares (buying low) convinced that I'll make a killing but I was wrong.
Eh!
13-06-2008, 08:22 PM
Bump
@ ebendl, newbie here :) Is there anyway to get rid of the middleman --> broker? I've got service offerings from my bank ABSA and Sanlam online trade. What is your opinion on their brokerage costs?
@ ebendl, newbie here :) Is there anyway to get rid of the middleman --> broker? I've got service offerings from my bank ABSA and Sanlam online trade. What is your opinion on their brokerage costs?
kiepie
14-06-2008, 02:02 AM
Don't know about ABSA, but SB brokerage cost seem fair to me. Currently using gt247 for CFD, so I only pay the spread, no brokerage cost.
ZuBS_
17-07-2008, 05:55 PM
What does CFD stand for?
Lord Anubis
18-07-2008, 04:31 AM
Sasol shares look ok? Also Absa?
Prof.Merlin
18-07-2008, 08:18 AM
What does CFD stand for?
Contract for difference
Contract for difference
stormchaser
05-08-2008, 11:55 PM
it stands for "contracts for difference"and u need atleast 100k to start trading.
hope this helps.
hope this helps.
DJ...
06-08-2008, 12:09 AM
I lost about 30% of my money that I've put in to trade online, it's definetely better to have a qualified broker or consultant to advise you on which share you should choose or buy.
Not always - remember, they are also sales people...;) Use your own discretion, do not trust a broker's word as gospel, but an opinion instead.
...you made R10 000 from R100 over a period of how many years?
I started trading online in January last year, my portfolio grew by about 50% last year alone, and then this year in January the sub-prime mortgage crises cancelled the gains I've accomplished last year and more. The mistake I made was to be arrogant and act invincible (because my portfolio grew by 50% last year) and I put all my money by buying shares in one company as I was convinced that the company's shares will grow quicker, but instead they declined quicker.
I've leaned my lesson, and at 23 years old, I'm not stressing about the money I lost.
You should have hedged yourself against the downside with CFDs. It cuts into your profits but helpd in a volatile market, especially if you are thinking of being greedy.
What share did you buy?
I am almost certain this wouldnt have been a single stock.
For those who want to learn a little more about the markets, read a book called "The Naked Trader" (sorry Kiepie, just remembered this one today). And please whatever you do, do not jump into leveraged deals like CFDs as a n00b - I can guarantee you that you will lose your margin account, plus more, as your nominal exposure on R100k is R1m usually. This is what you could lose with just R100k...
Not always - remember, they are also sales people...;) Use your own discretion, do not trust a broker's word as gospel, but an opinion instead.
...you made R10 000 from R100 over a period of how many years?
I started trading online in January last year, my portfolio grew by about 50% last year alone, and then this year in January the sub-prime mortgage crises cancelled the gains I've accomplished last year and more. The mistake I made was to be arrogant and act invincible (because my portfolio grew by 50% last year) and I put all my money by buying shares in one company as I was convinced that the company's shares will grow quicker, but instead they declined quicker.
I've leaned my lesson, and at 23 years old, I'm not stressing about the money I lost.
You should have hedged yourself against the downside with CFDs. It cuts into your profits but helpd in a volatile market, especially if you are thinking of being greedy.
What share did you buy?
I am almost certain this wouldnt have been a single stock.
For those who want to learn a little more about the markets, read a book called "The Naked Trader" (sorry Kiepie, just remembered this one today). And please whatever you do, do not jump into leveraged deals like CFDs as a n00b - I can guarantee you that you will lose your margin account, plus more, as your nominal exposure on R100k is R1m usually. This is what you could lose with just R100k...
DJ...
06-08-2008, 12:12 AM
it stands for "contracts for difference"and u need atleast 100k to start trading.
Yes and no. If you want a trading account then you need to open a margin account of R100k usually, but many brokers will gladly hedge your equity exposure using CFDs so long as you have a good relationship with them, without this initial outlay.
And to the few others asking about CFDs:
Trading CFDs is a full time affair IMO. You day trade a CFD or you use it as a hedge instrument. It is not a capital growth facilitator. You need an outlook as CFD trader and your technical analysis had better be up to scratch. Such as watching the price-breaking trends, RSIs, researching correlations in other markets and overall economic conditions and quantitatively factoring these calculations in etc etc. Dont jump in head first in the shallow end - you will be burned.
Yes and no. If you want a trading account then you need to open a margin account of R100k usually, but many brokers will gladly hedge your equity exposure using CFDs so long as you have a good relationship with them, without this initial outlay.
And to the few others asking about CFDs:
Trading CFDs is a full time affair IMO. You day trade a CFD or you use it as a hedge instrument. It is not a capital growth facilitator. You need an outlook as CFD trader and your technical analysis had better be up to scratch. Such as watching the price-breaking trends, RSIs, researching correlations in other markets and overall economic conditions and quantitatively factoring these calculations in etc etc. Dont jump in head first in the shallow end - you will be burned.
Barefoot Billionaire
06-08-2008, 03:13 PM
I prefer to give the bulk of my money to unit trust fund managers. Not only do they know the businesses and management of the companies and shares in which they buy shares much better than me, but they also have (and indirectly give me) a tax advantage. Buying shares online is exciting, though, but I see this as a game and won't put all my money in an online share dealing account. I also use PSG-online and is perfectly happy with them.
DJ...
06-08-2008, 03:17 PM
I prefer to give the bulk of my money to unit trust fund managers. Not only do they know the businesses and management of the companies and shares in which they buy shares much better than me, but they also have (and indirectly give me) a tax advantage. Buying shares online is exciting, though, but I see this as a game and won't put all my money in an online share dealing account. I also use PSG-online and is perfectly happy with them.
True, but we are talking derivatives trading, not equities. EDIT: Oops, wrong thread - sorry - its not derivatives specific - apologies...
WRT the fund managers, that is usually good from a long-term capital growth perspective, but I day-trade CFDs myself on top of a long-term capital growth portfolio. I also hedge my downside on my equities using CFDs. If you know what you are doing, why would you rely on a fund manager to manage your portfolio?
BTW - I love your nick ;)
True, but we are talking derivatives trading, not equities. EDIT: Oops, wrong thread - sorry - its not derivatives specific - apologies...
WRT the fund managers, that is usually good from a long-term capital growth perspective, but I day-trade CFDs myself on top of a long-term capital growth portfolio. I also hedge my downside on my equities using CFDs. If you know what you are doing, why would you rely on a fund manager to manage your portfolio?
BTW - I love your nick ;)
Barefoot Billionaire
06-08-2008, 03:22 PM
Just watch out for potential counterparty risk when trading CFDs. In other words, ask yourself whether the party at the other end of the transaction would be able to deliver on his/her promise? Where the prime broking houses facilitating normal listed share transactions have enough collateral to back the majority of transaction, the smaller CFD facilitators cannot stand in for large transactions. Online the 'disappearance' and 're-appearance' of money may seem to happen automatically, but who provides the guarantees that you will see your money again?
Barefoot Billionaire
06-08-2008, 03:27 PM
I prefer to give the bulk of my money to unit trust fund managers. Not only do they know the businesses and management of the companies and shares in which they buy shares much better than me, but they also have (and indirectly give me) a tax advantage. Buying shares online is exciting, though, but I see this as a game and won't put all my money in an online share dealing account. I also use PSG-online and is perfectly happy with them.
DJ...
06-08-2008, 03:55 PM
Just watch out for potential counterparty risk when trading CFDs. In other words, ask yourself whether the party at the other end of the transaction would be able to deliver on his/her promise? Where the prime broking houses facilitating normal listed share transactions have enough collateral to back the majority of transaction, the smaller CFD facilitators cannot stand in for large transactions. Online the 'disappearance' and 're-appearance' of money may seem to happen automatically, but who provides the guarantees that you will see your money again?
The counterparty risk is a little more elaborate than that, but trading through BOE for instance eliminates the issue you bring up. Also, if they cannot facilitate the trade it wont go through. However, it is in the best interests of a CFD brokerage to be able to facilitate any trade as it is a leveraged transaction which is interest bearing on their part...
I see where you are coming from though. Maybe referring to the GT issue in the UK or General Re a few years back. Sure, the counterparty risk is dependant on the creditworthiness of the counterparty.
The counterparty risk is a little more elaborate than that, but trading through BOE for instance eliminates the issue you bring up. Also, if they cannot facilitate the trade it wont go through. However, it is in the best interests of a CFD brokerage to be able to facilitate any trade as it is a leveraged transaction which is interest bearing on their part...
I see where you are coming from though. Maybe referring to the GT issue in the UK or General Re a few years back. Sure, the counterparty risk is dependant on the creditworthiness of the counterparty.
DJ...
06-08-2008, 03:58 PM
I prefer to give the bulk of my money to unit trust fund managers. Not only do they know the businesses and management of the companies and shares in which they buy shares much better than me, but they also have (and indirectly give me) a tax advantage. Buying shares online is exciting, though, but I see this as a game and won't put all my money in an online share dealing account. I also use PSG-online and is perfectly happy with them.
Why the double post?
Why the double post?
DJ...
07-08-2008, 02:16 AM
Hey guys, here is some additional info I cam across that some of you might find interesting: http://www.sharenet.co.za/v3/products/levels.php?leftmenu=1&level=DD
And here is a course as well: http://www.sharenet.co.za/jse_course/
And here is a course as well: http://www.sharenet.co.za/jse_course/
Barefoot Billionaire
07-08-2008, 05:07 PM
Thanks for the link, DJK.
Just another question on CFDs. Do you know how the trading profits are treated by SARS?
Just another question on CFDs. Do you know how the trading profits are treated by SARS?
attuu
22-01-2010, 01:33 PM
hi Ebendl, nice post! some more?
caelim
08-10-2010, 11:39 AM
d