Satanism Is Good For You :)

[LoneGunman]

Seeing as this is a democracy, and there's been a lot of whiney christians on forum, putting their view - I thought it only fair, that someone place online a direct opposing view to these christians. And no, 'athiesm' is not an opposing view - 'satanism' is.
(Of course, if you've been raised outside of religion, then satanism is just as stupid as christianity. And almost all satanists are ex-christians.)

So in the interests of expanding peoples minds, I'm placing large chunks of The Satanic Bible online, so that the christians can meet their worst nightmare, namely - 'the opposing team'
And people can read, and see which makes more sense. It's also pretty cool writing, once it gets going, bring an attitude that perhaps is needed - and who better to attack christian belief, than their diabolical eternal enemies..the followers of 'the other guy' And nope, I'm neither christian nor satanist, just a believer in the idea that all sides should get a hearing..

For unknown reasons, the entire cut n pasted text, and thread has been deleted.

Evidently some christians don't seem to like the idea of democratically hearing both sides of an argument..

I'll cut n paste my own brief summary as posted in the thread:

"note that christians live in a closed universe - made of the simple concept of a Being that made everything.. and that Being's Enemy satan/devil/whatever)
in the christian closed universe - their direct enemy are 'the opposing forces' of Lucifer/satan..
There is nothing beyond this paradigm, for christianity.
I dont believe in either.

But, as I said - I thought it would be delicious to have a cheerful tongue-in-cheek total Satanist's point of view.. as opposed to the long suffering athiests who have to do battle with people who exist in a reality where there's just 'good' and 'evil'. No room for inbetween.
In the interests of fair play and good debate, and as source material - I thought it'd be lovely to let so-called 'Evil' have some space to put its point of view." :)

The disappearance of a well thought out, reasoned argument, explaining the position from the 'enemy point of view' of the christians - is a sad indication of the closed minds of the allegedly 'religious'.

If the entire thread was removed because of the thread heading. ('satanism is good for you') then this demonstrates further, the willingness of the allegedly religious, to clamp down, and censor any viewpoint other than its own, despite claims to the contrary.

[Nod]

Yay to freedom of speech and religion.<Borat voice> NOT </Borat voice>.

[LoneGunman]

Posted this in the forum gripes section, will let folks know who's the witch-burner amongst the Mods :P

--------snip
Hey Where Did The Satanism Thread Go and Why?

If Christ's name can be all over the place on threads - then surely so can Satan's name. What was the reason for deleting a fairly useful chunk of source material from christians supposed enemy viewpoint?

Why only allow one side in a religious debate? Thats hardly fair, democratic, or decent?
I'd be curious to hear which Mod decided that this was a Christian forum, and no opposing viewpoints can be tolerated.

------

[Nod]

So what other religions are excluded from this forum? If I start a pagan thread, it will it be deleted too?

[GavinMannion]

Adding my voice to this complaint. It is against out constitution to discriminate against satanists. Freedom of religion.

Lets try not do that again

[rpm]

Hi folks

Please see the Gripes forum for the answer...

[GavinMannion]

Please recheck the gripes forum for a follow up question on the answer...

[LoneGunman]

agreed. Like it or not - 'satanism' is just another religion - and I think its wrong of Mods to try and make any decisions with regard to what is displayed on the forum in terms of belief systems. It sets a bad precedent.

[NewsFlash]

Adding my voice to this complaint. It is against out constitution to discriminate against satanists. Freedom of religion.

Lets try not do that again

Why? They have a "God". Some call him Satan and the Antichrist is their profit or saviour. They even have a temple and a bunch of disciples to suit. We read a lot of their drivel daily on MyADSL. Their bible was written in satanic scriptures, and we read about their achievements every day in the paper. They have a large congregation in Zimbabwe. So let them be.

[jabulani]

So what other religions are excluded from this forum? If I start a pagan thread, it will it be deleted too?

Us Pastafarians would be most upset, perhaps indigestive, if we were not allowed to post about His Noodliness The Flying Spaghetti Monster. His Noodly existence has been proven mathematically here:

http://scq.ubc.ca/?p=228


RAmen!

[Nod]

Something the read: History of the Devil (http://www.sacred-texts.com/evil/hod/index.htm)

[LoneGunman]

NewsFlash - you're missing the point.

'christianity' is 'just' a religion, like 'satanism' - and a zillion other beliefs. All beliefs are protected and allowed to exist alongside each other. Sorry if 'your' belief system makes you think you're allowed to repress other religions..
Thank god for the constitution
:P

[jabulani]

'christianity' is 'just' a religion, like 'satanism' - and a zillion other beliefs.

Pastafarianism is MORE than a religion or a belief-system - it's MEAL too!
:p

[Alan]

This is just a thinly veiled attempt to antagonise Christians and nothing more. :rolleyes:


:o

[NewsFlash]

NewsFlash - you're missing the point.

'christianity' is 'just' a religion, like 'satanism' - and a zillion other beliefs. All beliefs are protected and allowed to exist alongside each other. Sorry if 'your' belief system makes you think you're allowed to repress other religions..
Thank god for the constitution
:P

Who is repressing other religions here? Just another fable you just made up LG. Its you and your cronies that make life difficult on this forum for christian forumites wanting to discuss their religion here, now who is doing the repressing or are the oppressors now? Think man, think. If you can without using the conspiracy part of your brain. :D

All the respect I had for your views is just dwindling in the air, not that it matters, as I realise the biggest whiners here for tolerance is actually the worst culprits.

[BCO]

This is just a thinly veiled attempt to antagonise Christians and nothing more. :rolleyes:


:o

Indeed. I love it.

See you in hell mutha****s.

[lilDeath]

and yet another space hogger...

[LoneGunman]

Okay, everyone sitting nicely? Now sssshhhh :)

THE SATANIC BIBLE

PREFACE

This book was written because, with very few exceptions, every tract and paper, every
"secret" grimoire, all the "great works" on the subject of magic, are nothing more than
sanctimonious fraud - guilt-ridden ramblings and esoteric gibberish by chroniclers of magical
lore unable or unwilling to present an objective view of the subject. Writer after writer, in
efforts to state the principles of "white and black magic", has succeeded instead in clouding
the entire issue so badly that the would-be student of sorcery winds up stupidly pushing a
planchette over a Ouija board, standing inside a pentagram waiting for a demon to present
itself, limply tossing I-Ching yarrow stalks like so many stale pretzels, shuffling pasteboards
to foretell a future which has lost any meaning, attending seminars guaranteed to flatten his
ego - while doing the same to his wallet - and in general making a blithering fool of himself in
the eyes of those who know!
The true magus knows that occult bookshelves abound with the brittle relics of frightened
minds and sterile bodies, metaphysical journals of self-deceit, and constipated rule-books of
Eastern mysticism. Far too long has the subject of Satanic magic and philosophy been written
down by wild-eyed journalists of the right-hand path.
The old literature is the by-product of brains festering with fear and defeat, written
unknowingly for the assistance of those who really rule the earth, and who, from their Hellish
thrones, laugh with noisome mirth.
The flames of Hell burn brighter for the kindling supplied by these volumes of hoary
misinformation and false prophecy.
Herein you will find truth - and fantasy. Each is necessary for the other to exist; but each must
be recognized for what it is. What you see may not always please you; but you will see!
Here is Satanic thought from a truly Satanic point of view.
The Church of Satan
San Fransisco, Walpurgisnacht 1968 
PROLOGUE
The gods of the right-hand path have bickered and quarreled for an entire age of earth. Each
of these deities and their respective priests and ministers have attempted to find wisdom in
their own lies. The ice age of religious thought can last but a limited time in this great scheme
of human existence. The gods of wisdom-defiled have had their saga, and their millennium
hath become as reality. Each, with his own "divine" path to paradise, hath accused the other of
heresies and spiritual indiscretions. The Ring of the Nibelungen doth carry an everlasting
curse, but only because those who seek it think in terms of "Good" and "Evil" - themselves
being at all times "Good". The gods of the past have become as their own devils in order to
live. Feebly, their ministers play the devil's game to fill their tabernacles and pay the
mortgages on their temples. Alas, too long have they studied "righteousness", and poor and
incompetent devils they make. So they all join hands in "brotherly" unity, and in their
desperation go to Valhalla for their last great ecumenical council. "Draweth near in the gloom
the twilight of the gods." The ravens of night have flown forth to summon Loki, who hath set
Valhalla aflame with the searing trident of the Inferno. The twilight is done. A glow of new
light is borne out of the night and Lucifer is risen, once more to proclaim: "This is the age of
Satan! Satan Rules the Earth!" The gods of the unjust are dead. This is the morning of magic,
and undefiled wisdom. The FLESH prevaileth and a great Church shall be builded, consecrated
in its name. No longer shall man's salvation be dependent on his self-denial. And it will be
known that the world of the flesh and the living shall be the greatest preparation for any and
all eternal delights!
REGIE SATANAS!
AVE SATANAS!
HAIL SATAN! 

THE NINE SATANIC STATEMENTS

1. Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic
vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than
those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual
development", has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or
emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all
these years! 
(FIRE)

THE BOOK OF SATAN
THE INFERNAL DIATRIBE
The first book of the Satanic Bible is not an attempt to blaspheme as much as it is a statement
of what might be termed "diabolical indignation". The Devil has been attacked by the men of
God relentlessly and without reservation. Never has there been an opportunity, short of
fiction, for the Dark Prince to speak out in the same manner as the spokesmen of the Lord of
the Righteous. The pulpit-pounders of the past have been free to define "good" and "evil" as
they see fit, and have gladly smashed into oblivion any who disagree with their lies - both
verbally and, at times, physically. Their talk of "charity", when applied to His Infernal
Majesty, becomes an empty sham - and most unfairly, too, considering the obvious fact that
without their Satanic foe their very religions would collapse. How sad, that the allegorical
personage most responsible for the success of spiritual religions is shown the least amount of
charity and the most consistent abuse - and by those who most unctuously preach the rules of
fair play! For all the centuries of shouting-down the Devil has received, he has never shouted
back at his detractors. He has remained the gentleman at all times, while those he supports
rant and rave. He has shown himself to be a model of deportment, but now he feels it is time
to shout back. He has decided it is finally time to receive his due. Now the ponderous rulebooks
of hypocrisy are no longer needed. In order to relearn the Law of the Jungle, a small,
slim diatribe will do. Each verse is an inferno. Each word is a tongue of fire. The flames of
Hell burn fierce . . . and purify! Read on and learn the Law.

THE BOOK OF SATAN I
1. In this arid wilderness of steel and stone I raise up my voice that you may hear. To the
East and to the West I beckon. To the North and to the South I show a sign
proclaiming: Death to the weakling, wealth to the strong!
2. Open your eyes that you may see, Oh men of mildewed minds, and listen to me ye
bewildered millions!
3. For I stand forth to challenge the wisdom of the world; to interrogate the "laws" of
man and of "God"!
4. I request reason for your golden rule and ask the why and wherefore of your ten
commandments.
5. Before none of your printed idols do I bend in acquiescence, and he who saith "thou
shalt" to me is my mortal foe!
6. I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad redeemer, and write
over his thorn-torn brow: The TRUE prince of evil - the king of slaves!
7. No hoary falsehood shall be a truth to me; no stifling dogma shall encramp my pen!
8. I break away from all conventions that do not lead to my earthly success and
happiness.
9. I raise up in stern invasion the standard of the strong!
10. I gaze into the glassy eye of your fearsome Jehovah, and pluck him by the beard; I
uplift a broad-axe, and split open his worm-eaten skull!
11. I blast out the ghastly contents of philosophically whited sepulchers and laugh with
sardonic wrath!


[GavinMannion]

This is just a thinly veiled attempt to antagonise Christians and nothing more. :rolleyes:


:o

I didn't think anything was thinly veiled :D

There is a very vocal and large atheist section in this forum so I don't think happy religious discussions will ever really occur here.

I am more interested in discussing satanism though, I find it a fascinating religion.

[LoneGunman]

THE BOOK OF SATAN II

1. Behold the crucifix; what does it symbolize? Pallid incompetence hanging on a tree.
2. I question all things. As I stand before the festering and varnished facades of your
haughtiest moral dogmas, I write thereon in letters of blazing scorn: Lo and behold; all
this is fraud!
3. Gather around me, Oh! ye death-defiant, and the earth itself shall be thine, to have and
to hold!
4. Too long the dead hand has been permitted to sterilize living thought!
5. Too long right and wrong, good and evil have been inverted by false prophets!
6. No creed must be accepted upon authority of a "divine" nature. Religions must be put
to the question. No moral dogma must be taken for granted - no standard of
measurement deified. There is nothing inherently sacred about moral codes. Like the
wooden idols of long ago, they are the work of human hands, and what man has made,
man can destroy!
7. He that is slow to believe anything and everything is of great understanding, for belief
in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom.
8. The chief duty of every new age is to upraise new men to determine its liberties, to
lead it towards material success - to rend the rusty padlocks and chains of dead custom
that always prevent healthy expansion. Theories and ideas that may have meant life
and hope and freedom for our ancestors may now mean destruction, slavery, and
dishonor to us!
9. As environments change, no human ideal standeth sure!
10. Whenever, therefore, a lie has built unto itself a throne, let it be assailed without pity
and without regret, for under the domination of an inconvenient falsehood, no one can
prosper.
11. Let established sophisms be dethroned, rooted out, burnt and destroyed, for they are a
standing menace to all true nobility of thought and action!
12. Whatever alleged "truth" is proven by results to be but an empty fiction, let it be
unceremoniously flung into the outer darkness, among the dead gods, dead empires,
dead philosophies, and other useless lumber and wreckage!
13. The most dangerous of all enthroned lies is the holy, the sanctified, the privileged lie -
the lie everyone believes to be a model truth. It is the fruitful mother of all other
popular errors and delusions. It is a hydra-headed tree of unreason with a thousand
roots. It is a social cancer!
14. The lie that is known to be a lie is half eradicated, but the lie that even intelligent
persons accept as fact - the lie that has been inculcated in a little child at its mother's
knee - is more dangerous to contend against than a creeping pestilence!
15. Popular lies have ever been the most potent enemies of personal liberty. There is only
one way to deal with them: Cut them out, to the very core, just as cancers. Exterminate
them root and branch. Annihilate them, or they will us!

THE BOOK OF SATAN III

1. "Love one another" it has been said is the supreme law, but what power made it so?
Upon what rational authority does the gospel of love rest? Why should I not hate mine
enemies - if I "love" them does that not place me at their mercy?
2. Is it natural for enemies to do good unto each other - and WHAT IS GOOD?
3. Can the torn and bloody victim "love" the blood-splashed jaws that rend him limb
from limb?
4. Are we not all predatory animals by instinct? If humans ceased wholly from preying
upon each other, could they continue to exist?
5. Is not "lust and carnal desire" a more truthful term to describe "love" when applied to
the continuance of the race? Is not the "love" of the fawning scriptures simply a
euphemism for sexual activity, or was the "great teacher" a glorifier of eunuchs?
6. Love your enemies and do good to them that hate and use you - is this not the
despicable philosophy of the spaniel that rolls upon its back when kicked?
7. Hate your enemies with a whole heart, and if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him
on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law!
8. He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog!
9. Give blow for blow, scorn for scorn, doom for doom - with compound interest
liberally added thereunto! Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, aye four-fold, a hundred-fold!
Make yourself a Terror to your adversary, and when he goeth his way, he will possess
much additional wisdom to ruminate over. Thus shall you make yourself respected in
all the walks of life, and your spirit - your immortal spirit - shall live, not in an
intangible paradise, but in the brains and sinews of those whose respect you have
gained.

THE BOOK OF SATAN IV

1. Life is the great indulgence - death, the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of
life - HERE AND NOW!
2. There is no heaven of glory bright, and no hell where sinners roast. Here and now is
our day of torment! Here and now is our day of joy! Here and now is our opportunity!
Choose ye this day, this hour, for no redeemer liveth!
3. Say unto thine own heart, "I am mine own redeemer."
4. Stop the way of them that would persecute you. Let those who devise thine undoing be
hurled back to confusion and infamy. Let them be as chaff before the cyclone and after
they have fallen rejoice in thine own salvation.
5. Then all thy bones shall say pridefully, "Who is like unto me? Have I not been too
strong for mine adversaries? Have I not delivered MYSELF by mine own brain and

THE BOOK OF SATAN V

1. Blessed are the strong, for they shall possess the earth - Cursed are the weak, for they
shall inherit the yoke!
2. Blessed are the powerful, for they shall be reverenced among men - Cursed are the
feeble, for they shall be blotted out!
3. Blessed are the bold, for they shall be masters of the world - Cursed are the
righteously humble, for they shall be trodden under cloven hoofs!
4. Blessed are the victorious, for victory is the basis of right - Cursed are the vanquished,
for they shall be vassals forever!
5. Blessed are the iron-handed, for the unfit shall flee before them - Cursed are the poor
in spirit, for they shall be spat upon!
6. Blessed are the death-defiant, for their days shall be long in the land - Cursed are the
gazers toward a richer life beyond the grave, for they shall perish amidst plenty!
7. Blessed are the destroyers of false hope, for they are the true Messiahs - Cursed are the
god-adorers, for they shall be shorn sheep!
8. Blessed are the valiant, for they shall obtain great treasure - Cursed are the believers in
good and evil, for they are frightened by shadows!
9. Blessed are those that believe in what is best for them, for never shall their minds be
terrorized - Cursed are the "lambs of God", for they shall be bled whiter than snow!
10. Blessed is the man who has a sprinkling of enemies, for they shall make him a hero -
Cursed is he who doeth good unto others who sneer upon him in return, for he shall be
despised!
11. Blessed are the mighty-minded, for they shall ride the whirlwinds - Cursed are they
who teach lies for truth and truth for lies, for they are an abomination!
12. Thrice cursed are the weak whose insecurity makes them vile, for they shall serve and
suffer!
13. The angel of self-deceit is camped in the souls of the "righteous" - The eternal flame
of power through joy dwelleth within the flesh of the Satanist!

(AIR)
THE BOOK OF LUCIFER
THE ENLIGHTENMENT
The Roman god, Lucifer, was the bearer of light, the spirit of the air, the personification of
enlightenment. In Christian mythology he became synonymous with evil, which was only to
have been expected from a religion whose very existence is perpetuated by clouded
definitions and bogus values! It is time to set the record straight. False moralisms and occult
inaccuracies must be corrected. Entertaining as they might be, most stories and plays about
Devil worship must be recognized as the obsolete absurdities they are. It has been said "the
truth will make men free". The truth alone has never set anyone free. It is only DOUBT which
will bring mental emancipation. Without the wonderful element of doubt, the doorway
through which truth passes would be tightly shut, impervious to the most strenuous poundings
of a thousand Lucifers. How understandable that Holy Scripture should refer to the Infernal
monarch as the "father of lies" - a magnificent example of character inversion. If one is to
believe this theological accusation that the Devil represents falsehood, then it surely must be
concurred that it was HE, NOT GOD, THAT ESTABLISHED ALL SPIRITUAL RELIGIONS AND WHO
WROTE ALL OF THE HOLY BIBLES!
When one doubt is followed by another, the bubble, grown large from long
accumulated fallacies, threatens to burst. For those who already doubt supposed truths, this
book is revelation. Then Lucifer will have risen. Now is the time for doubt! The bubble of
falsehood is bursting and its sound is the roar of the world!

[LoneGunman]

- W A N T E D ! -
GOD DEAD OR ALIVE
IT is a popular misconception that the Satanist does not believe in God. The concept of
"God", as interpreted by man, has been so varied throughout the ages, that the Satanist
simply accepts the definition which suits him best. Man has always created his gods,
rather than his gods creating him. God is, to some, benign - to others, terrifying. To the
Satanist "God" - by whatever name he is called, or by no name at all - is seen as the
balancing factor in nature, and not as being concerned with suffering. This powerful
force which permeates and balances the universe is far too impersonal to care about the
happiness or misery of flesh-and-blood creatures on this ball of dirt upon which we
live.
Anyone who thinks of Satan as evil should consider all the men, women, children, and
animals who have died because it was "God's will". Certainly a person grieving the untimely
loss of a loved one whould much rather have their loved one with them than in God's hands!
Instead, they are unctuously consoled by their clergyman who says, "It was God's will, my
dear"; or "He is in God's hands now, my son." Such phrases have been a convenient way for
religionists to condone or excuse the mercilessness of God. But if God is in complete control
and as benign as he is supposed to be, why does He allow these things to happen? Too long
have religionists been falling back on their bibles and rulebooks to prove or disprove, justify,
condemn, or interpret.
The Satanist realizes that man, and the action and reaction of the universe, is responsible for
everything, and doesn't mislead himself into thinking that someone cares. No longer will we
sit back and accept "fate" without doing anything about it, just because it says so in Chapter
such and such, Psalm so and so - and that's that! The Satanist knows that praying does
absolutely no good - in fact, it actually lessens the chance of success, for the devoutly
religious too often sit back complacently and pray for a situation which, if they were to do
something about it on their own, could be accomplished much quicker!
The Satanist shuns terms such as "hope" and "prayer" as they are indicative of apprehension.
If we hope and pray for something to come about, we will not act in a positive way which will
make it happen. The Satanist, realizing that anything he gets is of his own doing, takes
command of the situation instead of praying to God for it to happen. Positive thinking and
positive action add up to results.
Just as the Satanist does not pray to God for assistance, he does not pray for forgiveness for
his wrong doings. In other religions, when one commits a wrong he either prays to God for
forgiveness, or confesses to an intermediary and asks him to pray to God for forgiveness for
his sins. The Satanist knows that praying does no good, confessing to another human being,
like himself, accomplishes even less - and is, furthermore, degrading.
When a Satanist commits a wrong, he realizes that it is natural to make a mistake - and if he is
truly sorry about what he has done, he will learn from it and take care not to do the same thing
again. If he is not honestly sorry about what he has done, and knows he will do the same thing
over and over, he has no business confessing and asking forgiveness in the first place. But this
is exactly what happens. People confess their sins so that they can clear their consciences -
and be free to go out and sin again, usually the same sin.
and be free to go out and sin again, usually the same sin.
There are many diferent interpretations of God, in the usual sense of the word, as there are
types of people. The images run from a belief in a god who is some vague sort of "universal
cosmic mind" to an anthropomorphic deity with a long white beard and sandals who keeps
track of every action of each individual.
Even within the confines of a given religion, the personal interpretations of God differ greatly.
Some religions actually go so far as to label anyone who belongs to a religious sect other than
their own a heretic, even though the overall doctrines and impressions of godliness are nearly
the same. For example: The Catholics believe that the Protestants are doomed to Hell simply
because they do not belong to the Catholic Church. In the same way, many splinter groups of
the Christian faith, such as the evangelical or revivalist churches, believe that the Catholics
are heathens who worship graven images. (Christ is depicted in the image that is most
psychologically akin to the individual worshipping him, and yet the Chrisitans criticize
"heathens" for the worship of graven images.) And the Jews have always been given the
Devil's name.
Even though the god in all of these religions is basically the same, each regards the way
chosen by the others as reprehensible, and to top it all, religionists actually PRAY for one
another! They have scorn for the brothers of the right-hand path because their religions carry
different labels, and somehow this animosity must be released. What better way than through
"prayer"! What a simperingly polite way of saying: "I hate your guts," is the thinly disguised
device known as praying for your enemy! Praying for one's own enemy is nothing more than
bargain-basement anger, and of a decidedly shoddy and inferior quality!
If there has been so much violent discrepancy as to the proper way in which to worship God,
how many different interpretations of God can there be - and who is right?
All devout "white-lighters" are concerned with pleasing God so that they might have the
"Pearly Gates" opened for them when they die. Nevertheless, if a man has not lived his life in
accordance with the regulations of his faith, he can at the last minute call a clergyman to his
deathbed for a final absolution. The priest or minister will then come running on the double,
to "make everything right" with God and see to it that his passport to the Heavenly Realm is
in order. (The Yezidis, a sect of Devil worshippers, take a different viewpoint. They believe
that God is all-powerful, but also all-forgiving, and so accordingly feel that it is the Devil
whom they must please, as he is the one who rules their lives while here on earth. They
believe so strongly that God will forgive all of their sins once they have been given the last
rites, that they feel no need to concern themselves with the opinion God may hold of them
while they live.)
With all of the contradictions in the Christian scriptures, many people currently cannot
rationally accept Christianity the way it has been practiced in the past. Great numbers of
people are beginning to doubt the existence of God, in the established Christian sense of the
word. So, they have taken to calling themselves "Christian Atheists". True, the Christian Bible
is a mass of contradictions; but what could be more contradictory than the term "Christian
Atheist"?
If prominent leaders of the Christian faith are rejecting the past interpretations of God, how
then can their followers be expected to adhere to previous religious tradition?
With all the debates about whether or not God is dead, if he isn't he had better have MEDICARE!
THE GOD YOU SAVE MAY BE YOURSELF

[LoneGunman]

ALL religions of a spiritual nature are inventions of man. He has created an entire
system of gods with nothing more than his carnal brain. Just because he has an ego,
and cannot accept it, he has to externalize it into some great spiritual device which he
calls "God".
God can do all the things man is forbidden to do - such as kill people, perform miracles
to gratify his will, control without any apparent responsibility, etc. If man needs such a
god and recognizes that god, then he is worshipping an entity that a human being
invented. Therefore, HE IS WORSHIPPING BY PROXY THE MAN THAT INVENTED GOD. Is it not more sensible to
worship a god that he, himself, has created, in accordance with his own emotional needs - one
that best represents the very carnal and physical being that has the idea-power to invent a god
in the first place?
If man insists on externalizing his true self in the form of "God", then why fear his true self, in
fearing "God", - why praise his true self in praising "God", - why remain externalized from
"God" IN ORDER TO ENGAGE IN RITUAL AND RELIGIOUS CEREMONY IN HIS NAME?
Man needs ritual and dogma, but no law states that an externalized god is necessary in order
to engage in ritual and ceremony performed in a god's name! Could it be that when he closes
the gap between himself and his "God" he sees the demon of pride creeping forth - that very
embodiment of Lucifer appearing in his midst? He no longer can view himself in two parts,
the carnal and the spiritual, but sees them merge as one, and then to his abysmal horror,
discovers that they are only the carnal - AND ALWAYS WERE! Then he either hates himself to death,
day by day - or rejoices that he is what he is!
If he hates himself, he searches out new and more complex spiritual paths of "enlightenment"
in hopes that he may split himself up again in his quest for stronger and more externalized
"gods" to scourge his poor miserable shell. If he accepts himself, but recognizes that ritual and
ceremony are the important devices that his invented religions have utilized to sustain his
faith in a lie, then it is the SAME FORM OF RITUAL that will sustain his faith in the truth - the
primitive pageantry that will give his awareness of his own majestic being added substance.
When all religious faith in lies has waned, it is because man has become closer to himself and
farther from "God"; closer to the "Devil." If this is what the devil represents, and a man lives
his life in the devil's fane, with the sinews of Satan moving in his flesh, then he either escapes
from the cacklings and carpings of the righteous, or stands proudly in his secret places of the
earth and manipulates the folly-ridden masses through his own Satanic might, until that day
when he may come forth in splendor proclaiming
"I AM A SATANIST! BOW DOWN, FOR I AM THE HIGHEST EMBODIMENT OF HUMAN LIFE!"

SOME EVIDENCE OF A NEW SATANIC AGE

THE seven deadly sins of the Christian Church are: greed, pride, envy, anger,
gluttony, lust, and sloth. Satanism advocates indulging in each of these "sins" as they
all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
A Satanist knows there is nothing wrong with being greedy, as it only means that he
wants more than he already has. Envy means to look with favor upon the possessions
of others, and to be desirous of obtaining similar things for oneself. Envy and greed are
the motivating forces of ambition - and without ambition, very little of any importance
would be accomplished.
Gluttony is simply eating more than you need to keep yourself alive. When you have
overeaten to the point of obesity, another sin - pride - will motivate you to regain an
appearance that will renew your self-respect.
Anyone who buys an article of clothing for a purpose other than covering his body and
protecting it from the elements is guilty of pride. Satanists often encounter scoffers who
maintain that labels are not necessary. It must be pointed out to these destroyers of labels that
one or many articles they themselves are wearing are not wearing are not necessary to keep
them warm. There is not a person on this earth who is completely devoid of ornamentation.
The Satanist points out that any ornamentation of the scoffer's body shows that he, too, is
guilty of pride. Regardless of how verbose the cynic may be in his intellectual description of
how free he is, he is still wearing the elements of pride.
Being reluctant to get up in the morning is to be guilty of sloth, and if you lie in bed long
enough you may find yourself commiting yet another sin - lust. To have the faintest stirring of
sexual desire is to be guilty of lust. In order to insure the propagation of humanity, nature
made lust the second most powerful instinct, the first being self-preservation. Realizing this,
the Christian Church made fornication the "Original Sin". In this way they made sure no one
would escape sin. Your very state of being is as a result of sin - the Original sin!
The strongest instinct in every living thing is self-preservation, which brings us to the last of
the seven deadly sins - anger. Is it not our instinct for self-preservation that is aroused when
someone harms us, when we become angry enough to protect ourselves from further attack?
A Satanist practices the motto, "If a man smite thee on one cheek, smash him on the other!"
Let no wrong go unredressed. Be as a lion in the path - be dangerous even in defeat!
Since man's natural instincts lead him to sin, all men are sinners; and all sinners go to hell. If
everyone goes to hell, then you will meet all your friends there. Heaven must be populated
with some rather strange creatures if they all lived for was to go to a place where they can
strum harps for eternity.
"Times have changed. Religious leaders no longer preach that all our natural actions are
sinful. We no longer think sex is dirty - or that taking pride in ourselves is shameful - or that
wanting something someone else has is vicious." Of course not, times have changed! "If you
want proof of this, just look at how liberal churches have become. Why, they're practicing all
the things that you preach."
Satanists hear these, and similar statements, all the time; and they agree wholeheartedly. BUT,
if the world has changed so much, why continue to grasp at the threads of a dying faith? If
many religions are denying their own scriptures because they are out of date, and are
preaching the philosophies of Satanism, why not call it by its rightful name - Satanism?
Certainly it would be far less hypocritical.
In recent years there has been an attempt to humanize the spiritual concept of Christianity.
This has manifested itself in the most obvious non-spiritual means. Masses which had been
said in Latin are now said in native languages - which only succeeds in making the nonsense
easier to understand, and at the same time robs the ceremony of the esoteric nature which is
consistent with the tenets of the dogma. It is much simpler to obtain an emotional reaction
using words and phrases that cannot be understood than it is with statements which even the
simplest mind will question when hearing them in an understandable language.
If priests and ministers were to have used the devices to fill their churches one hundred years
ago that they use today, they would have been charged with heresy, called devils, oft-times
persecuted, but certainly excommunicated without hesitation.
The religionists wail, "We must keep up with the times," forgetting that, due to limiting
factors and deeply engrained laws of white light religions, there can never be sufficient
change to meet the needs of man.
Past religions have always represented the spiritual nature of man, with little or no concern for
his carnal or mundane needs. They have considered this life but transitory, and the flesh
merely a shell; physical pleasure trivial, and pain a worthwhile preparation for the "Kingdom
of God". How well the utter hypocrisy comes forth when the "righteous" make a change in
their religion to keep up with man's natural change! The only way that Christianity can ever
completely serve the needs of man is to become as Satanism is NOW.
It has become necessary for a NEW religion, based on man's natural instincts, to come forth.
THEY have named it. It is called Satanism. It is that power condemned that has caused the
religious controversy over birth-control measures - a disgruntled admission that sexual
activity, for fun, is here to stay.
It is the "Devil" who caused women to show their legs, to titillate men - the same kind of legs,
now socially acceptable to gaze upon, which are revealed by young nuns as they walk about
in their shortened habits. What a delightful step in the right (or left) direction! Is it possible
we will soon see "topless" nuns sensually throwing their bodies about to the "Missa Solemnis
Rock"? Satan smiles and says he would like that fine - many nuns are very pretty girls with
nice legs.

[LoneGunman]

Many churches with some of the largest congregations have the most hand-clapping, sensual
music - also Satanically inspired. After all, the Devil has always had the best tunes.
Church picnics, despite all of Aunt Martha's talk about the Lord's Bountiful Harvest, are
nothing more than a good excuse for Sunday gluttony; and everyone knows that lots more
than Bible reading goes on in the bushes.
The fund-raising adjunct to many church bazaars is commonly known as a carnival, which
used to mean the celebration of the flesh; now a carnival is okay because the money goes to
the church so that it can preach against the temptations of the Devil! It will be said that these 
things are only pagan devices and ceremonies - that the Christians borrowed them. True, but
the Pagans revelled in the delights of the flesh, and were condemned by the very same people
who celebrate their rituals, but call them by different names.
Priests and ministers are in the front lines of peace demonstrations, and lying on railroad
tracks in front of trains carrying war materials, with as much dedication as their brothers of
the cloth, from the same seminaries, who are blessing the bullets and bombs and fighting men
as chaplains in the armed forces. Someone must be wrong, someplace. Could it be that Satan
is the one qualified to act as accuser? Certainly they named him that!
When a puppy reaches maturity it becomes a dog; when ice melts it is called water; when
twelve months have been used up, we get a new calendar with the proper chronological name;
when "magic" becomes scientific fact we refer to it as medicine, astronomy, etc. When one
name is no longer appropriate for a given thing it is only logical to change it to a new one
which better fits the subject. Why, then, do we not follow suit in the area of religion? Why
continue to call a religion the same name when the tenets of that religion no longer fit the
original one?


Or, if religion does preach the same things that it always has, but its followers
practice nearly none of its teachings, why do they continue to call themselves by the name
given to followers of that religion?
If you do not believe in what your religion teaches, why continue to support a belief which is
contradictory with your feelings. You would never vote for a person or issue you did not
believe in, so why cast your ecclesiastical vote for a religion which is not consistent with your
convictions? You have no right to complain about a political situation you have voted for or
supported in any way - which includes sitting back and complacently agreeing with neighbors
who approve the situation, just because you are too lazy or cowardly to speak your mind. So it
is with religious balloting. Even if you cannot be aggressively honest about your opinions
because of unfavorable consequences from employers, community leaders, etc., you can, at
least, be honest with yourself. In the privacy of your own home and with close friends you
must support religion which has YOUR best interests at heart.
"Satanism is based on a very sound philosophy," say the emancipated. "But why call it
Satanism? Why not call it something like 'Humanism' or a name that would have the
connotation of a witchcraft group, something a little more esoteric - something less blatant."
There is more than one reason for this. Humanism is not a religion. It is simply a way of life
with no ceremony or dogma. Satanism has both ceremony and dogma. Dogma, as will be
explained, is necessary.
Satanism differs greatly from all other so-called white-light, "white" witchcraft or magical
groups in the world today. These self-righteous and supercilious religions protest that their
members use the powers of magic only for altruistic purposes. Satanists look with disdain
upon "white" witchcraft groups because they feel that altruism is sinning on the lay-away
plan. It is unnatural not to have desire to gain things for yourself. Satanism represents a form
of controlled selfishness. This does not mean that you never do anything for anyone else. If
you do something to make someone for whom you care happy, his happiness will give you a
sense of gratification.
Satanism advocates practicing a modified form of the Golden Rule. Our interpretation of this
rule is: "Do unto others as they do unto you"; because if you "Do unto others as you would
have them do unto you," and they, in turn, treat you badly, it goes against human nature to
continue to treat them with consideration. You should do unto others as you would have them 
do unto you, but if your courtesy is not returned, they should be treated with the wrath they
deserve.
White witchcraft groups say that if you curse a person, it will return to you three-fold, come
home to roost, or in some way boomerang back to the sender. This is yet another indication of
the guilt-ridden philosophy which is held by these neo-Pagan, pseudo-Christian groups. White
witches want to delve into witchcraft, but cannot divorce themselves from the stigma attached
to it. Therefore, they call themselves white magicians, and base seventy-five per cent of their
philosophy on the trite and hackneyed tenets of Christianity. Anyone who pretends to be
interested in magic or the occult for reasons other that gaining personal power is the worst
kind of hypocrite. The Satanist respects Christianity for, at least, being consistent in its guiltridden
philosophy, but can only feel contempt for the people who attempt to appear
emancipated from guilt by joining a witchcraft group, and then practice the same basic
philosophy as Christianity.

[LoneGunman]

White magic is supposedly utilized only for good or unselfish purposes, and black magic, we
are told, is used only for selfish or "evil" reasons. Satanism draws no such dividing line.
Magic is magic, be it used to help or hinder. The Satanist, being the magician, should have the
ability to decide what is just, and then apply the powers of magic to attain his goals.
During white magical ceremonies, the practitioners stand within a pentagram to protect
themselves from the "evil" forces which they call upon for help. To the Satanist, it seems a bit
two-faced to call on these forces for help, while at the same time protecting yourself from the
very powers you have asked for assistance. The Satanist realizes that only by putting himself
in league with these forces can be fully and unhypocritically utilize the Powers of Darkness to
his best advantage.
In a Satanic magical ceremony, the participants do NOT: join hands and dance "ring around the
rosy" in a circle; burn candles of various colors for various wishes; call out the names of
"Father, Son and Holy Ghost" while supposedly practicing Black Arts; pick a "Saint" for their
personal guide in obtaining help for their problems; dunk themselves in smelly oils and hope
the money comes in; meditate so they can arrive at a "great spiritual awakening"; recite long
incantations with the name of Jezus thrown in for good measure, between every few words,
etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam!
BECAUSE - This is NOT the way to practice Satanic magic. If you cannot divorce yourself from
hypocritical self-deceit, you will never be successful as a magician, much less a Satanist.
The Satanic religion has not merely lifted the coin - it has flipped it completely over.
Therefore, why should it support the very principles to which it is completely opposed by
calling itself anything other than a name which is totally in keeping with the reversed
doctrines which make up the Satanic philosophy? Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a
religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the
personification of the Left Hand Path.
Inevitably, the next question asked is: "Granted, you can't call it humanism because
humanism is not a religion; but why even have a religion in the first place if all you do is what
comes naturally, anyway? Why not just do it?"
Modern man has come a long way; he has become disenchanted with the nonsensical dogmas
of past religions. We are living in an enlightened age. Psychiatry has made great strides in
enlightening man about his true personality. We are living in an era of intellectual awareness
unlike any the world has ever seen.
This is all very well and good, BUT - there is one flaw in this new state of awareness. It is one
thing to accept something intellectually, but to accept the same thing emotionally is an
entirely different matter. The one need that psychiatry cannot fill is man's inherent need for
emotionalizing through dogma. Man needs ceremony and ritual, fantasy and enchantment.
Psychiatry, despite all the good it has done, has robbed man of wonder and fantasy which
religion, in the past, has provided.
Satanism, realizing the current needs of man, fills the large grey void between religion and
psychiatry. The Satanic philosophy combines the fundamentals of psychology and good,
honest emotionalizing, or dogma. It provides man with his much needed fantasy. There is
nothing wrong with dogma, providing it is not based on ideas and actions which go
completely against human nature.
The quickest way of traveling between two points is in a straight line. If all the guilts that
have been built up can be turned into advantages, it eliminates the need for intellectual
purging of the psyche in an attempt to cleanse it from these repressions. Satanism is the only
religion known to man that accepts man as he is, and promotes the rationale of turning a bad
thing into a good thing rather than bending over backwards to eliminate the bad thing.
Therefore, after intellectually evaluating your problems through common sense and drawing
on what psychiatry has taught us, if you still cannot emotionally release yourself from
unwarranted guilt, and put your theories into action, then you should learn to make your guilt
work for you. You should act upon your natural instincts, and then, if you cannot perform
without feeling guilty, revel in your guilt. This may sound like a contradiction in terms, but if
you will think about it, guilt can often add a fillip to the senses. Adults would do well to take
a lesson from children. Children often take great delight in doing something they know they
are not supposed to.
Yes, times have changed, but man hasn't. The basics of Satanism have always existed. The
only thing that is new is the formal organization of a religion based on the universal traits of
man. For centuries, magnificent structures of stone, concrete, mortar, and steel have been
devoted to man's abstinence. It is high time that human beings stopped fighting themselves,
and devoted their time to building temples designed for man's indulgences.
Even though times have changed, and always will, man remains basically the same. For two
thousand years man has done penance for something he never should have had to feel guilty
about in the first place. We are tired of denying ourselves the pleasures of life which we
deserve. Today, as always, man needs to enjoy himself here and now, instead of waiting for
his rewards in heaven. So, why not have a religion based on indulgence? Certainly, it is
consistent with the nature of the beast. We are no longer supplicating weaklings trembling
before an unmerciful "God" who cares not whether we live or die. We are self-respecting,
prideful people - we are Satanists!

HELL, THE DEVIL, AND HOW TO 'SELL YOUR SOUL'

SATAN has certainly been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in
business all these years. The false doctrine of Hell and the Devil has allowed the
Protestant and Catholic Churches to flourish far too long. Without a devil to point their
fingers at, religionists of the right hand path would have nothing with which to threaten
their followers. "Satan leads you to temptation"; "Satan is the prince of evil"; "Satan is
vicious, cruel, brutal," they warn. "If you give in to the temptations of the devil, you
will surely suffer eternal damnation and roast in Hell."
The semantic meaning of Satan is the "adversary" or "opposition" or the "accuser". The very
word "devil" comes from the Indian devi which means "god". Satan represents opposition to
all religions which serve to frustrate and condemn man for his natural instincts. He has been
given an evil role simply because he represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects of
life.

[bwana]

I didn't think anything was thinly veiled :D

There is a very vocal and large atheist section in this forum so I don't think happy religious discussions will ever really occur here.

I am more interested in discussing satanism though, I find it a fascinating religion.I would think that atheist would find the subject of Satanism as irrelevant as any other religion.

[LoneGunman]

Satan, the chief devil of the Western World, was originally an angel whose duty was to report
human delinquencies to God. It was not until the Fourteenth Century that he began to be
depicted as an evil deity who was part man and part animal, with goat-like horns and hooves.
Before Christianity gave him the names of Satan, Lucifer, etc., the carnal side of man's nature
was governed by the god which was then called Dionysus, or Pan, depicted as a satyr or faun,
by the Greeks. Pan was originally the "good guy", and symbolized fertility and fecundity.
Whenever a nation comes under a new form of government, the heroes of the past become
villains of the present. So it is with religion. The earliest Christians believed that the Pagan
deities were devils, and to employ them was to use "black magic". Miraculous heavenly
events they termed "white magic"; this was the sole distinction between the two. The old gods
did not die, they fell into Hell and became devils. The bogey, goblin, or bugaboo used to
frighten children is derived from the Slavonic "Bog" which means "god", as does Bhaga in
Hindu.
Many pleasures revered before the advent of Christianity were condemned by the new
religion. It required little changeover to transform the horns and cloven hooves of Pan into a
most convincing devil! Pan's attributes could be neatly changed into charged-with-punishment
sins, and so the metamorphosis was complete.
The association of the goat with the Devil is found in the Christian Bible, where the holiest
day of the year, the Day of Atonement, was celebrated by casting lots for two goats "without
blemish", one to be offered to the Lord, and one to Azazel. The goat carrying the sins of the
people was driven into the desert and became a "scapegoat". This is the origin of the goat
which is still used in lodge ceremonies today as it was also used in Egypt, where once a year
it was sacrificed to a God.

The devils of mankind are many, and their origins diversified. The performance of Satanic
ritual does not embrace the calling forth of demons; this practice is followed only by those
who are in fear of the very forces they conjure.
Supposedly, demons are malevolent spirits with attributes conductive to the deterioration of
the people or events that they touch upon. The Greek word demon meant a guardian spirit or
source of inspiration, and to be sure, later theologians invented legion upon legion of these
harbingers of inspiration - all wicked.
An indication of the cowardice of "magicians" of the right-hand path is the practice of calling
upon a particular demon (who would supposedly be a minion of the devil) to do his bidding.
The assumption is that the demon, being only a flunky of the devil, is easier to control. Occult
lore states that only the most formidably "protected" or insanely foolhardy sorcerer would try
to call forth the Devil himself.
The Satanist does not furtively call upon these "lesser" devils, but brazenly invokes those who
people that infernal army of long-standing outrage - the Devils themselves!
Theologians have catalogued some of the names of devils in their lists of demons, as might be
expected, but the roster which follows contains the names and origins of the Gods and
Goddesses called upon, which make up a large part of the occupancy of the Royal Palace of
Hell:
THE FOUR CROWN PRINCES OF HELL
SATAN - (Hebrew) adversary, opposite, accuser, Lord of fire, the inferno, the south
LUCIFER - (Roman) bringer of light, enlightenment, the air, the morning star, the east
BELIAL - (Hebrew) without a master, baseness of the earth, independence, the north
LEVIATHAN - (Hebrew) the serpent out of the deeps, the sea, the west
THE INFERNAL NAMES
The devils of past religions have always, at least in part, had animal characteristics, evidence
of man's constant need to deny that he too is an animal, for to do so would serve a mighty
blow to his impoverished ego.
The pig was despised by the Jews and the Egyptians. It symbolized the gods Frey, Osiris,
Adonis, Persephone, Attis, and Demeter, and was sacrificed to Osiris and the Moon. But, in
time, it became degraded into a devil. The Phoenicians worhipped a fly god, Baal, from which
comes the devil, Beelzebub. Both Baal and Beelzebub are identical to the dung beetle or
scarabaeus of the Egyptians which appeared to resurrect itself, much as the mythical bird, the
phoenix, rose from its own ashes. The ancient Jews believed, through their contact with the
Persians, that the two great forces in the world were Ahura-Mazda, the god of fire, light, life,
and goodness; and Ahriman, the serpent, the god of darkness, destruction, death, and evil.
These, and countless other examples, not only depict man's devils as animals, but also show
his need to sacrifice the original animal gods and demote them to his devils.
At the time of the Reformation, in the Sixteenth Century, the alchemist, Dr. Johann Faustus,
discovered a method of summoning a demon - Mephistopheles - from Hell and making a pact
with him. He signed a contract in blood to turn his soul over to Mephistopheles in return for
the feeling of youth, and at once became young. When the time came for Faustus to die, he
retired to his room and was blown to bits as though his laboratory had exploded. This story is
a protest of the times (the Sixteenth Century) against science, chemistry, and magic.
To the Satanist, it is unnecessary to sell your soul to the Devil or make a pact with Satan. This
threat was devised by Christianity to terrorize people so they would not stray from the fold.
With scolding fingers and trembling voices, they taught their followers that if they gave in to
the temptations of Satan, and lived their lives according to their natural predilictions, they
would have to pay for their sinful pleasures by giving their souls to Satan and suffering in
Hell for all eternity. People were led to believe that a pure soul was a passport to everlasting
life.
Pious prophets have taught man to fear Satan. But what of terms like "God fearing"? If God is
so merciful, why do people have to fear him? Are we to believe there is nowhere we can turn
to escape fear? If you have to fear God, why not be "Satan fearing" and at least have the fun
that being God fearing denies you? Without such a wholesale fear religionists would have had
nothing with which to wield power over their followers.
The Teutonic Goddess of the Dead and daughter of Loki was named Hel, a Pagan god of
torture and punishment. Another "L" was added when the books of the Old Testament were
formulated. The prophets who wrote the Bible did not know the word "Hell"; they used the
Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades, which meant the grave; also the Greek Tartaros, which
was the abode of fallen angels, the underworld (inside the earth), and Gehenna, which was a
valley near Jerusalem where Moloch reigned and garbage was dumped and burned. It is from
this that the Christian Church has evolved the idea of "fire and brimstone" in Hell.
The Protestant Hell and the Catholic Hell are places of eternal punishment; however, the
Catholics also believe there is a "Purgatory" where all souls go for a time, and a "Limbo"
where unbaptized souls go. The Buddhist Hell is divided into eight sections, the first seven of
which can be expiated. The ecclesiastical description of Hell is that of a horrible place of fire
and torment; in Dante's Inferno, and in northern climes, it was thought to be an icy cold
region, a giant refrigerator.
(Even with all their threats of eternal damnation and soul roasting, Christian missionaries
have run across some who were not so quick to swallow their drivel. Pleasure and pain, like
beauty, are in the eye of the beholder. So, when missionaries ventured into Alaska and warned
the Eskimos of the horrors of Hell and the blazing lake of fire awaiting transgressors, they
eagerly asked: "How do we get there?"!)
Most Satanists do not accept Satan as an anthropomorphic being with cloven hooves, a barbed
tail, and horns. He merely represents a force in nature - the powers of darkness which have
been named just that because no religion has taken these forces out of the darkness. Nor has
science been able to apply technical terminology to this force. It is an untapped resivoir that
few can make use of because they lack the ability use a tool without having to first break
down and label all the parts which make it run. It is this incessant need to analyze which
prohibits most people from taking advantage of this many faceted key to the unknown - which
the Satanist chooses to call "Satan".
Satan, as a god, demi-god, personal saviour, or whatever you wish to call him, was invented
by the formulators of every religion on the face of the earth for only one purpose - to preside
over man's so-called wicked activities and situations here on earth. Consequently, anything
resulting in physical or mental gratification was defined as "evil" - thus assuring a lifetime of
unwarrented guilt for everyone!
So, if "evil" they have named us, evil we are - and so what! The Satanic Age is upon us! Why
not take advantage of it and LIVE!

LOVE AND HATE
SATANISM represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on
ingrates!

[Highflyer_GP]

All the respect I had for your views is just dwindling in the air, not that it matters, as I realise the biggest whiners here for tolerance is actually the worst culprits.
So what you're saying is that anything which might be vaguely offensive to Christians should not be allowed because it's not very tolerant? Did you ever think that Christianity might be offensive to Satanists, therefore you should refrain from posting anything Christian because it's not tolerant towards Satanists. The argument works both ways.

The world doesn't revolve around Christianity anymore, everybody's belief system is held with equally high regard - no single faith is more important than another.

[LoneGunman]

You cannot love everyone; it is ridiculous to think you can. If you love everyone and
everything you lose your natural powers of selection and wind up being a pretty poor
judge of character and quality. If anything is used too freely it loses its true meaning.
Therefore, the Satanist believes you should love strongly and completely those who
deserve your love, but never turn the other cheek to your enemy!
Love is one of the most intense emotions felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel
indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your
feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and
emotional ailments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you
cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on
your loved ones.
There has never been a great "love" movement in the history of the world that hasn't wound
up killing countless numbers of people, we must assume, to prove how much they loved
them! Every hypocrite who ever walked the earth has had pockets buldging with love!
Every pharisaical religionist claims to love his enemies, even though when wronged he
consoles himself by thinking "God will punish them". Instead of admitting to themselves that
they are capable of hating their foes and treating them in the manner they deserve, they say:
"There, but for the grace of God, go I," and "pray" for them. Why should we humiliate and
lower ourselves by drawing such inaccurate comparisons?
Satanism has been thought of as being synonymous with cruelty and brutality. This is so only
because people are afraid to face the truth - and the truth is that human beings are not all
benign or all loving. Just because the Satanist admits he is capable of both love and hate, he is
considered hateful. On the contrary, because he is able to give vent to his hatred through
ritualized expression, he is far more capable of love - the deepest kind of love. By honestly
recognizing and admitting to both the hate and the love he feels, there is no confusing one
emotion with the other. Without being able to experience one of these emotions, you cannot
fully experience the other.

SATANIC SEX
MUCH controversy has arisen over the Satanic views on "free love". It is often
assumed that sexual activity is the most important factor of the Satanic religion, and
that willingness to participate in sex-orgies is a prerequisite for becoming a Satanist.
Nothing could be farther from the truth! In fact, opportunists who have no deeper
interest in Satanism than merely the sexual aspects are emphatically discouraged.
Satanism does advocate sexual freedom, but only in the true sense of the word. Free
love, in the Satanic concept, means exactly that - freedom to either be faithful to one
person or to indulge your sexual desires with as many others as you feel is necessary to satisfy
your particular needs.
Satanism does not encourage orgiastic activity or extramarital affairs for those to whom they
do not come naturally. For many, it would be very unnatural and detrimental to be unfaithful
to their chosen mates. To others, it would be frustrating to be bound sexually to just one
person. Each person must decide for himself what form of sexual activity best suits his
individual needs. Self-deceitfully forcing yourself to be adulterous or to have sex partners
when not married just for the sake of proving others (or worse yet, to yourself) that you are
emancipated from sexual guilt is just as wrong, by Satanic standards, as leaving any sexual
need unfulfilled because of ingrained feelings of guilt.
Many of those who are constantly preoccupied with demonstrating their emancipation from
sexual guilt are, in reality, held in even greater sexual bondage than those who simply accept
sexual activity as a natural part of life and don't make a big to-do over their sexual freedom.
For example, it is an established fact that the nymphomaniac (every man's dream girl and
heroine of all lurid novels) is not sexually free, but is actually frigid and roves from man to
man because she is too inhibited to ever find complete sexual release.
Another misconception is the idea that ability to engage in group sexual activity is the
indicative of sexual freedom. All contemporary free-sex groups have one thing in common -
discouragement of fetishistic or deviant activity.
Actually, the most forced examples of non-fetishistic sexual activity thinly disguised as
"freedom" have a common format. Each of the participants in an orgy removes all clothing,
following the example set forth by one, and mechanically fornicate - also following the
leader's example. None of the performers consider that their "emancipated" form of sex might
be regarded as regimented and infantile by non-members who fail to equate uniformity with
freedom.
The Satanist realizes that if he is to be a sexual connoiseur (and truly free from all sexual
guilt) he cannot be stifled by the so-called sexual revolutionists any more than he can by the
prudery of his guilt-ridden society. These free-sex clubs miss the whole point of sexual
freedom. Unless sexual activity can be expressed on an individual basis (which includes
personal fetishes), there is absolutely no purpose in belonging to a sexual freedom
organization.
Satanism condones any type of sexual activity which properly satisfies your individual desires
- be it heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or even asexual, if you choose. Satanism also
sanctions any fetish or deviation which will enhance your sex-life, so long as it involves no
one who does not wish to be involved.

[LoneGunman]

The prevalence of deviant and/or fetishistic behavior in our society would stagger the
imagination of the sexually na&#239;ve. There are more sexual variants than the unenlightened
individual can perceive: transvestism, sadism, masochism, urolagnia, exhibitionism - to name
only a few of the more predominant. Everyone has some form of fetish, but because they are
unaware of the preponderance of fetishistic activity in our society, they feel they are depraved
if they submit to their "unnatural" yearnings.
Even the asexual has a deviation - his asexuality. It is far more abnormal to have a lack of
sexual desire (unless illness or old-age, or another valid reason has caused the wane) than it is
to be sexually promiscuous. However, if a Satanist chooses sexual sublimination above overt
sexual expression, that is entirely his own affair. In many cases of sexual sublimination (or
asexuality), any attempt to emancipate himself sexually would prove devastating to the
asexual.
Asexuals are invariably sexually sublimated by their jobs or hobbies. All the energy and
driving interest which would normally be devoted to sexual activity is channelled into other
pastimes or into their chosen occupations. If a person favors other interests over sexual
activity, it is his right, and no one is justified in condemning him for it. However, the person
should at least recognize the fact that this is a sexual sublimation.
Because of lack of opportunity for expression, many secret sexual desires never progress
beyond the fantasy stage. Lack of release often leads to compulsion and, therefore, a great
number of people devise undetectable methods of giving vent to their urges. Just because
most fetishistic activity is not outwardly apparent, the sexually unsophisticated should not
delude himself into thinking it does not exist. To cite examples of the ingenious techniques
used: The male transvestite will indulge in his fetish by wearing feminine undergarments
while going about his daily activities; or the masochistic woman might wear a rubber girdle
several sizes too small, so she may derive sexual pleasure from her fetishistic discomfort
throughout the day, with no one the wiser. These illustrations are far tamer and more
prevalent examples than others which could have been given.
Satanism encourages any form of sexual expression you may desire, so long as it hurts no one
else. This statement must be qualified, to avoid misinterpretation. By not hurting another, this
does not include the unintentional hurt felt by those who might not agree with your views on
sex, because of their anxieties regarding sexual morality. Naturally, you should avoid
offending others who mean a great deal to you, such as prudish friends and relatives.
However, if you earnestly endeavor to escape hurting them, and despite your efforts they
accidentally find out, you cannot be held responsible, and therefore should feel no guilt as a
result of either your sexual convictions, or their being hurt because of those convictions. If
you are in constant fear of offending the prudish by your attitude towards sex, then there is no
sense in trying to emancipate yourself from sexual guilt. However, no purpose is served by
flaunting your permissiveness.
The other exception to the rule regards dealings with masochists. A masochist derives
pleasure from being hurt; so denying the masochist his pleasure-through-pain hurts him just as
much as actual physical pain hurts the non-masochist. The story of the truly cruel sadist
illustrates this point: The masochist says to the sadist, "beat me." To which the merciless
sadist replies, "NO!" If a person wants to be hurt and enjoys suffering, then there is no reason 
not to indulge him in his wont.
The term "sadist" in popular usage describes one who obtains pleasure from indiscriminate
brutality. Actually, though, a true sadist is selective. He carefully chooses from the vast
reserve of appropriate victims, and takes great delight in giving those who thrive on misery
the fulfillment of their desires. The "well-adjusted" sadist is epicurean in selecting those on
whom his energies will be well-spent! If a person is healthy enough to admit he is a masochist
and enjoys being enslaved and whipped, the real sadist is glad to oblige!
Aside from the foregoing exceptions, the Satanist would not intentionally hurt others by
violating their sexual rights. If you attempt to impose your sexual desires upon others who do
not welcome your advances, you are infringing upon their sexual freedom. Therefore,
Satanism does not advocate rape, child molesting, sexual defilement of animals, or any other
form of sexual activity which entails the participation of those who are unwilling or whose
innocence or na&#239;vet&#233; would allow them to be intimidated or misguided into doing something
against their wishes.
If all parties involved are mature adults who willingly take full responsibility for their actions
and voluntarily engage in a given form of sexual expression - even if it is generally
considered taboo - then there is no reason for them to repress their sexual inclinations.
If you are aware of all the implications, advantages, and disadvantages, and are certain your
actions will hurt no one who does not wish or deserve to be hurt, you have no cause to
suppress your sexual preferences.
Just as no two people are exactly the same in their choice of diet or have the same capacity for
the consumption of food, sexual tastes and appetites vary from person to person. No person or
society has the right to set limitations on the sexual standards or the frequency of sexual
activity of another. Proper sexual conduct can only be judged within the context of each
individual situation. Therefore, what one person considers sexually correct and moral may be
frustrating to another. The reverse is also true; one person may have great sexual prowess, but
it is unjust for him to belittle another whose sexual capacity may not equal his own, and
inconsiderate for him to impose himself upon the other person, i.e., the man who has a
voracious sexual appetite, but whose wife's sexual needs do not match his own. It is unfair for
him to expect her to enthusiastically respond to his overtures; but she must display the same
degree of thoughtfulness. In the instances when she does not feel great passion, she should
either passively, but pleasantly, accept him sexually, or raise no complaint if he chooses to
find his needed release elsewhere - including auto-erotic practices.
The ideal relationship is one in which the people are deeply in love with one another and are
sexually compatible. However, perfect relationships are relatively uncommon. It is important
to point out here that spiritual love and sexual love can, but do not necessarily, go hand in
hand. If there is a certain amount of sexual compatibility, often it is limited; and some, but not
all, of the sexual desires will be fulfilled.
There is no greater sexual pleasure than that derived from association with someone you
deeply love, if you are sexually well-suited. If you are not suited to one another sexually,
though, it must be stressed that lack of sexual compatibility does not indicate lack of spiritual
love. One can, and often does, exist without the other. As a matter of fact, often one member
of a couple will resort to outside sexual activity because he deeply loves his mate, and wishes
to avoid hurting or imposing upon his loved one. Deep spiritual love is enriched by sexual 
love, and it is certainly a necessary ingredient for any satisfactory relationship; but because of
differing sexual predilictions, outside sexual activity or masturbation sometimes provides a
needed supplement.
Masturbation, considered a sexual taboo by many people, creates a guilt problem not easily
dealt with. Much emphasis must be placed on this subject, as it constitutes an extremely
important ingredient of many a successful magical working.
Ever since the Judaeo-Christian Bible described the sin of Onan (Gen. 38:7-10), man has
considered the seriousness and consequences of the "solitary vice". Even though modern
sexologists have explained the sin of Onan as simply coitus interruptus, the damage has been
done through centuries of theological misinterpretation.

[LoneGunman]

Aside from actual sex crimes, masturbation is one of the most frowned upon sexual acts.
During the last century, innumerable texts were written describing the horrific consequences
of masturbation. Practically all physical or mental illnesses were attributed to the evils of
masturbation. Pallor of the complexion, shortness of breath, furtive expression, sunken chest,
nervousness, pimples and loss of appetite are only a few of the many characteristics
supposedly resulting from masturbation; total physical and mental collapse was assured if one
did not heed the warnings in those handbooks for young men.
The lurid descriptions in such texts would be almost humorous, were it not for the unhappy
fact that even though contemporary sexologists, doctors, writers, etc. have done much to
remove the stigma of masturbation, the deep-seated guilts induced by the nonsense in those
sexual primers have been only partially erased. A large percentage of people, especially those
over forty, cannot emotionally accept the fact that masturbation is natural and healthy, even if
they now accept it intellectually; and they, in turn, relate their repugnance, often
subconsciously, to their children.
It was thought that one would go insane if, despite numerous admonitions, his auto-erotic
practices persisted. This preposterous myth grew from reports of wide-spread masturbation by
the inmates of mental institutions. It was assumed that since almost all incurably insane
people masturbated, it was their masturbation that had driven them mad. No one ever stopped
to consider the lack of sexual partners of the opposite sex and the freedom from inhibition,
which is a characteristic of extreme insanity, were the real reasons for the masturbatory
practices of the insane.
Many people would rather have their mates seek outside sexual activity than perform autoerotic
acts because of their own guilt feelings, the mate's repugnance towards having them
engage in masturbation, or the fear of their mate's repugnance - although in a surprising
number of cases, a vicarious thrill is obtained from the knowledge that the mate is having
sexual experiences with outsiders - although this is seldom admitted.
If stimulation is provided by envisioning one's mate sexually engaged with others, this should
be brought out into the open where both parties may gain from such activities. However, if the
prohibition of masturbation is only due to guilt feelings on the part of one or both parties, they
should make every attempt to erase those guilts - or utilize them. Many relationships might be
saved from destruction if the people involved did not feel guilt about performing the natural
act of masturbation.
Masturbation is regarded as evil because it produces pleasure derived from intentionally
fondling a "forbidden" area of the body by one's own hand. The guilt feelings accompanying
most sexual acts can be assuaged by the religiously-acceptable contention that your sensual
delights are necessary to produce off-spring - even though you cautiously watch the calendar
for the "safe" days. You cannot, however, placate yourself with this rationale while engaging
in masturbatory practices.
No matter what you've been told about the "immaculate conception" - even if blind faith
allows you to swallow this absurdity - you know full well if you are to produce a child, there
must be sexual contact with a person of the opposite sex! If you feel guilty for committing the
"original sin," you certainly will feel even deeper guilt for performing a sex act only for selfgratification,
with no intention of creating children.
The Satanist fully realizes why religionists declare masturbation to be sinful. Like all other
natural acts people will do it, no matter how severely reprimanded. Causing guilt is an
important facet of their malicious scheme to obligate people to atone for "sins" by paying the
mortgages on temples of abstinence!
Even if a person is no longer struggling under the burden of religiously-induced guilt (or
thinks he isn't), modern man still feels shame if he yields to his masturbatory desires. A man
may feel robbed of his masculinity if he satisfies himself auto-erotically rather than engaging
in the competitive game of woman chasing. A woman may satisfy herself sexually but yearns
for the ego-gratification that comes from the sport of seduction. Neither the quasi Casanova
nor bogus vamp feels adequate when "reduced" to masturbation for sexual gratification; both
would prefer even an inadequate partner. Satanically speaking, though, it is far better to
engage in a perfect fantasy than to cooperate in an unrewarding experience with another
person. With masturbation, you are in complete control of the situation.
To illustrate the undebatable fact that masturbation is an entirely normal and healthy practice:
it is performed by all members of the animal kingdom. Human children will also follow their
instictive masturbatory desires, unless they have been scolded for it by their indignant parents,
who were undoubtably berated for it by their parents, and so on down the retrocedent line.
It is unfortunate, but true, that the sexual guilts of parents will immutably be passed on to their
children. In order to save our children from the ill-fated sexual destiny of our parents,
grandparents, and possibly ourselves, the perverted moral code of the past must be exposed
for what it is: a pragmatically organized set of rules which, if rigidly obeyed, would destroy
us! Unless we emancipate ourselves from the ridiculous sexual standards of our present
society, including the so-called sexual revolution, the neuroses caused by those stifling
regulations will persist. Adherence to the sensible and humanistic new morality of Satanism
can - and will - evolve society in which our children can grow up healthy and without the
devastating moral encumbrances of our existing sick society.

NOT ALL VAMPIRES SUCK BLOOD!
SATANISM represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic
vampires.
Many people who walk the earth practice the fine art of making others feel responsible
and even indebted to them, without cause. Satanism observes these leeches in their true
light. Psychic vampires are individuals who drain others of their vital energy. This type
of person can be found in all avenues of society. They fill no useful purpose in our
lives, and are neither love objects nor true friends. Yet we feel responsible to the
psychic vampire without knowing why.
If you think you may be the victim of such a person, there are a few simple rules which will
help you form a decision. Is there a person you often call or visit, even though you really don't
want to, because you know you will feel guilty if you don't? Or, do you find yourself
constantly doing favors for one who doesn't come forward and ask, but hints? Often the
psychic vampire will use reverse psychology, saying: "Oh, I couldn't ask you to do that" - and
you, in turn, insist upon doing it. The psychic vampire never demands anything of you. That
would be far too presumptuous. They simply let their wishes be known in subtle ways which
will prevent them from being considered pests. They "wouldn't think of imposing" and are
always content and willingly accept their lot, without the slightest complaint - outwardly!
Their sins are not of commission, but of omission. It's what they don't say, not what they do
say, that makes you feel you must account to them. They are much too crafty to make overt
demands upon you, because they know you would resent it, and would have a tangible and
legitimate reason for denying them.
A large percentage of these people have special "attributes" which make their dependence
upon you more feasible and much more effective. Many psychic vampires are invalids (or
pretend to be) or are "mentally or emotionally disturbed." Others might feign ignorance or
incompetence so you will, out of pity - or more often, exasperation - do things for them.
The traditional way to banish a demon or elemental is to recognize it for what it is, and
exorcise it. Recognition of these modern-day demons and their methods is the only antidote
for their devastating hold over you.
Most people accept these passively vicious individuals at face value only because their
insidious maneuvers have never been pointed out to them. They merely accept these "poor
souls" as being less fortunate than themselves, and feel they must help them however they
can. It is this misdirected sense of responsibility (or unfounded sense of guilt) which
nourishes well the "altruisms" upon which these parasites feast!

[LoneGunman]

The psychic vampire is allowed to exist because he cleverly chooses conscientious,
responsible people for his victims - people with great dedication to their "moral obligations."
In some cases we are vampirized by groups of people, as well as individuals. Every fund
raising organization, be it a charitable foundation, community council, religious or fraternal
association, etc., carefully selects a person who is adept at making others feel guilty for its
chairman or coordinator. It is the job of this chairman to intimidate us into opening first our
hearts, and then our wallets, to the recipient of their "good will" - never mentioning that, in
many cases, their time is not unselfishly donated, but that they are drawing a fat salary for
their "noble deeds." They are masters at playing upon the sympathy and consideration of
responsible people. How often we see little children who have been sent forth by these selfrighteous
Fagins to painlessly extract donations from the kindly. Who can resist the innocent
charm of a child?
There are, of course, people who are not happy unless they are giving, but many of us do not
fit into this category. Unfortunately, we are often put upon to do things we do not genuinely
feel should be required of us. A conscientious person finds it very difficult to decide between
voluntary and imposed charity. He wants to do what is right and just, and finds it perplexing
trying to decide exactly who he should help and what degree of aid should rightfully be
expected of him.
Each person must decide for himself what his obligations are to his respective friends, family,
and community. Before donating his time and money to those outside his immediate family
and close circle of friends, he must decide what he can afford, without depriving those closest
to him. When taking these things into consideration he must be certain to include himself
among those who mean most to him. He must carefully evaluate the validity of the request
and the personality or motives of the person asking it of him.
It is extremely difficult for a person to learn to say "no" when all his life he has said "yes."
But unless he wants to be constantly taken advantage of, he must learn to say "no" when
circumstances justify doing so. If you allow them, psychic vampires will gradually infiltrate
your everyday life until you have no privacy left - and your constant feeling of concern for
them will deplete you of all ambition.
A psychic vampire will always select a person who is relatively content and satisfied with his
life - a person who is happily married, pleased with his job, and generally well-adjusted to the
world around him - to feed upon. The very fact that the psychic vampire chooses to victimize
a happy person shows that he is lacking all the things his victim has; he will do everything he
can to stir up trouble and disharmony between his victim and those people he holds dear.
Therefore, be wary of anyone who seems to have no real friends and no appearant interest in
life (except you). He will usually tell you he is very selective in his choice of friends, or
doesn't make friends easily because of the high standards he sets for his companions. (To
acquire and keep friends, one must be willing to give of himself - something of which the
psychic vampire is incapable.) But he will hasten to add that you fulfill every requirement and
are truly an outstanding exception among men - you are one of the very few worthy of his
friendship.
Lest you confuse desperate love (which is a very selfish thing) with psychic vampirism, the
vast difference between the two must be clarified. The only way to determine if you are being
vampirized is to weigh what you give the person compared to what they give you in return.
You may, at times, become annoyed with the obligations put upon you by a loved one, a close
friend, or even an employer. But before you label them psychic vampires, you must ask
yourself, "What am I getting in return?" If your spouse or lover insists that you call them
frequently, but you also require them to account to you for their time spent away from you,
you must realize this is a give and take situation. Or, if a friend is in the habit of calling upon
you for help at inopportune moments, but you similarly depend upon them to give your
immediate needs priority, you must regard it as a fair exchange. If your employer asks you to
do a little more than is normally expected of you in your particular position, but will overlook
occasional tardiness or will give you time off when you need it, you certainly have no cause
for complaint and need not feel he is taking advantage of you.
You are, however, being vampirized if you are incessantly called upon or expected to do
favors for someone who, when you need a favor, always happens to have other "pressing
obligations."
Many psychic vampires will give you material things for the express purpose of making you
feel you owe them something in return, thereby binding you to them. The difference between
your giving, and theirs, is that your return payment must come in a non-material form. They
want you to feel obligated to them, and would be very disappointed and even resentful if you
attempted to repay them with materal objects. In essence, you have "sold your soul" to them,
and they'll constantly remind you of your duty to them, by not reminding you.
Being purely Satanic, the only way to deal with a psychic vampire is to "play dumb" and act
as though they are genuinely altruistic and really expect nothing in return. Teach them a
lesson by graciously taking what they give you, thanking them loudly enough for all to hear,
and walking away! In this way you come out the victor. What can they say? And when you
are inevitably expected to repay their "generosity," (this is the hard part!) you say "NO" - but
again, graciously! When they feel you falling from their clutches two things will happen.
First, they will act "crushed," hoping your old feeling of duty and sympathy will return, and
when (and if) it doesn't, they will show their true colors and will become angry and
vindictive.
Once you have moved them to this point, YOU can play the role of the injured party. After all,
you've done nothing wrong - you just happened to have had "pressing obligations" when they
needed you, and since nothing was expected in return for their gifts, there should be no hard
feelings.
Generally, the psychic vampire will realize his methods have been discovered and will not
press the issue. He will not continue to waste his time with you, but will move on to his next
unsuspecting victim.
There are times, however, when the psychic vampire will not release his hold so easily, and
will do everything possible to torment you. They have plenty of time for this because, when
once rejected, they wil neglect all else (what little else they have, that is) to devote their every
waking moment to planning the revenge to which they feel they are entitled. For this reason, it
is best to avoid a relationship with this kind of person in the first place. Their "adulation" and
dependence upon you may, at first, be very flattering, and their material gifts very attractive,
but you will eventually find yourself paying for them many times over.
Don't waste your time with people who will ultimately destroy you, but concentrate instead on
those who will appreciate your responsibility to them, and, likewise, feel responsible to you.
And if you are a psychic vampire - take heed! Beware of the Satanist - he is ready and willing
to gleefully drive the proverbial stake through your heart!

INDULGENCE . . . NOT COMPULSION
THE HIGHEST PLATEAU OF HUMAN DEVELOPMENT IS THE AWARENESS OF THE FLESH!

[LoneGunman]

SATANISM encourages its followers to indulge in their natural desires. Only by doing so
can you be a completely satisfied person with no frustrations which can be harmful to
yourself and others around you. Therefore, the most simplified description of the
Satanic belief is:
INDULGENCE INSTEAD OF ABSTINENCE
People often mistake compulsion for indulgence, but there is a world of difference
between the two. A compulsion is never created by indulging, but by not being able to
indulge. By making something taboo, it only serves to intensify the desire. Everyone likes to
do the things they have been told not to. "Forbidden fruits are sweetest."
Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary defines indulgence thusly: "To give oneself up to; not to
restrain or oppose; to give free course to; to gratify by compliance; to yeild to." The
dictionary definition of compulsion is: "The act of compelling or driving by a force, physical
or moral; constraint of the will; (compulsory, obligatory)." In other words, indulgence implies
choice, whereas compulsion indicates the lack of choice.
When a person has no proper release for his desires they rapidly build up and become
compulsions. If everyone had a particular time and place for the purpose of periodically
indulging in their personal desires, without fear of embarrassment or reproach, they would be
sufficiently released to lead unfrustrated lives in the everyday world. They would be free to
plunge headlong into whatever undertaking they might choose instead of going about their
duties half-heartedly, their creative urges frustrated by denying their natural desires. This
would apply in the majority of cases, but there will always be those who work better under
pressure.
Generally, those who need to endure a certain amount of hardship to produce to their full
capabilities are in basically artistic vocations. (More will be said later about fulfillment
through self-denial.) This does not mean to imply that all artists fit into this category. On the
contrary, many artists are unable to produce unless their basic animal needs have been
satisfied.
For the most part, it is not the artist or individualist, but the average middle-class working
man or woman who is lacking the proper release for their desires. It is ironic that the
responsible, respectable person - the one who pays society's bills - should be the one given the
least in return. It is he who must be ever conscious of his "moral obligations", and who is
condemned for normally indulging in his natural desires.
The Satanic religion considers this a gross injustice. He who upholds his responsibilities
should be most entitled to the pleasures of his choice, without censure from the society he
serves.
Finally a religion (Satanism) has been formed which commends and rewards those who
support the society in which they live, instead of denouncing them for their human needs.
From every set of principles (be it religious, political, or philosophical), some good can be
extracted. Amidst the madness of the Hitlerian concept, one point stands out as a shining
example of this - "strength through joy!". Hitler was no fool when he offered the German
people happiness, on a personal level, to insure their loyalty to him, and peak efficiency from
them.
It has been clearly established that the majority of all illnesses are of a psychosomatic nature,
and that psychosomatic illnesses are a direct result of frustration. It has been said that "the
good die young". The good, by Christian standards, do die young. It is the frustration of our
natural instincts which leads to the deterioration of our minds and bodies.
It has become very fashionable to concentrate on the betterment of the mind and spirit, and to
consider giving pleasure to one's body (the very shell without which the mind and spirit could
not exist) to be coarse, crude, unrefined. AS OF LATE, MOST PEOPLE WHO DEEM THEMSELVES EMANCIPATED
HAVE LEFT NORMALCY ONLY TO "TRANSCEND" INTO IDIOCY! By way of bending their behinds around to
meet their navels, subsisting on wild and exotic diets like brown rice and tea, they feel they
will arive at a great state of spiritual development.
"Hogwash!" says the Satanist. He would rather eat a good hearty meal, exercise his
imagination, and transcend by means of physical and emotional fulfillment. It seems, to the
Satanist, that after being harnessed with unreasonable religious demands for so many
centuries, one would welcome the chance to be human for once!
If anyone thinks that by denying his natural desires he can avoid mediocrity, he should
examine the Eastern mystical beliefs which have been in great intellectual favor in recent
years. Christianity is "old-hat", so those who wish to escape its fetters have turned to so-called
enlightened religions, such as Buddhism. Although Christianity is certainly deserving of the
criticism it has received, perhaps it has been taking more than its share of the blame. The
followers of the mystical beliefs are every bit as guilty of the little humanisms as the
"misguided" Christians. Both religions are based on trite philosophies, but the mystical
religionists profess to be enlightened and emancipated from the guilt-ridden dogma which is
typified by Christianity. However, the Eastern mystic is even more preoccupied than the
Christian with avoiding animalistic actions that remind him he is not a "saint", but merely a
man - only another form of animal, sometimes better, more often worse, than those who walk
on all fours; and who, becuase of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has
become the most vicious animal of all!
The Satanist asks, "What is wrong with being human, and having human limitations as well as
assets?" By denying his desires the mystic has come no closer to overcoming compulsion than
his kindred soul, the Christian. The Eastern mystical beliefs have taught people to
contemplate their navels, stand on their heads, stare at blank walls, avoid the use of labels in
life, and discipline themselves against any desire for materialistic pleasure. Nevertheless, I am
sure you have seen just as many so-called desciplined yogis with the inablility to control a
smoking habit as anyone else; or just as many supposedly emancipated Buddhists become just
as excited as a "less aware" person when they are confronted with a member of the opposite -
or in some cases, the same - sex. Yet when asked to explain the reason for their hypocrisy,
these people retreat into the ambiguousness which characterizes their faith - no one can pin
them down if there are no straight answers that can be given!
The simple fact of the matter is that the very thing which has led this type of person to a faith
which preaches abstinence, is indulgence. Their compulsive masochism is the reason for
choosing a religion which not only advocates self-denial, but praises them for it; and gives
them a sacrosanct avenue of expression for their masochistic needs. The more abuse they can
stand, the holier they become.
Masochism, to most people, represents a rejection of indulgence. Satanism points out many
meanings behind the meanings, and considers masochism to be an indulgence if any attempt
to sway or change the person from his masochistic traits is met with resentment and/or failure.
The Satanist does not condemn these people for giving vent to their masochistic desires, but
he does feel the utmost contempt towards those who cannot be honest enough (at least with
themselves) to face and accept their masochism as a natural part of their personality make-up.
Having to use religion as an excuse for their masochism is bad enough, but these people
actually have the effrontery to feel superior to those who are not bound-up in self-deceitful
expression of their fetishes! These people would be the first to condemn a man who found his
weekly release with a person who would beat him soundly, thereby releasing himself from the
very thing which could, if unreleased, make him - as they are - a compulsive church-goer or
religious fanatic. By finding adequate release for his masochistic desires, he no longer needs
to debase and deny himself in his every waking moment, as do these compulsive masochists.
Satanists are encouraged to indulge in the seven deadly sins, as they need hurt no one; they
were only invented by the Christian Church to insure guilt on the part of its followers. The
Christian Church knows that it is impossible for anyone to avoid committing these sins, as
they are all things which we, being human, most naturally do. After inevitably committing
these sins financial offerings to the church in order to "pay off" God are employed as a sop to
the parishioner's conscience!
Satan has never needed a book of rules, because vital natural forces have kept man "sinful"
and intent on preserving himself and his feelings. Nevertheless, demoralizing attempts have
been made on his body and being for his "soul's" sake, which only illustrate how
misconceived and misused the labels of "indulgence" versus "compulsion" have become.
Sexual activity certainly is condoned and encouraged by Satanism, but obviously the fact that
it is the only religion which honestly takes this stand, is the reason it has been traditionally
given so much literary space.

[LoneGunman]

Naturally, if most people belong to the religions which repress them sexually, anything
written on this provocative subject is going to make for titillating reading.
If all attempts to sell something (be it a product or an idea) have failed - sex will always sell
it. The reason for this is that even though people now consciously accept sex as a normal and
necessary function, their subconscious is still bound by the taboo which religion has placed
upon it. So, again, what is denied is more intensely desired. It is this bugaboo regarding sex
which causes the literature devoted to the Satanic views on the subject to overshadow all else
written about Satanism.
The true Satanist is not mastered by sex any more than he is mastered by any of his other
desires. As with all other pleasurable things, the Satanist is master of, rather than mastered by
sex. He is not the perverted fiend who is just waiting for the opportunity to deflower every
young virgin, nor is he the skulking degenerate who furtively hangs around in the "dirty"
bookstores, slavering over the "nasty" pictures. If pornography fills his needs for the moment,
he unashamedly buys some "choice items" and guiltlessly peruses them at his leisure.
"We have to accept the fact that man has become disgruntled at being constantly repressed,
but we must do everything we can to at least temper the sinful desires of man, lest they run
rampant in this new age," say the religionists of the right-hand path to the questioning
Satanist. "Why continue to think of these desires as shameful and something to be repressed,
if you now admit they are natural?" returns the Satanist. Could it be that the white-light
religionists are a bit "sour-grapes" about the fact that they didn't think of a religion, before the
Satanists, which would be enjoyable to follow; and if the truth were known, would they too
not like to have a bit more pleasure out of life, but for fear of losing face, cannot admit it?
Could it also be that they are afraid people will, after hearing about Satanism, tell themselves
"This is for me - why should I continue with a religion which condemns me for everything I
do, even though there is nothing actually wrong with it?" The Satanist thinks this is more than
likely true.
There is certainly much evidence that past religions are, every day, lifting more and more of
their ridiculous restrictions. Even so, when an entire religion is based on abstinence instead of
indulgence (as it should be) there is little left when it has been revised to meet the current
needs of man. So, why waste time "buying oats for a dead horse"?
The watchword of Satanism is INDULGENCE instead of "abstinence" . . . BUT - it is not
“compulsion“.

ON THE CHOICE OF A 'HUMAN SACRIFICE'
THE supposed purpose in performing the ritual of sacrifice is to throw the energy
provided by the blood of the freshly slaughtered victim into the atmosphere of the
magical working, thereby intensifying the magician's chances of success.
The "white" magician assumes that since blood represents the life force, there is no
better way to appease the gods or demons than to present them with suitable quantities
of it. Combine this rationale with the fact that a dying creature is expending an
overabundance of adrenal and other biochemical energies, and you have what appears
to be an unbeatable combination.
The "white" magician, wary of the consequences involved in the killing of a human being,
naturally utilizes birds, or other "lower" creatures in his ceremonies. It seems these
sanctimonious wretches feel no guilt in the taking of a non-human life, as opposed to a
human's.
The fact of the matter is that if the "magician" is worthy of his name, he will be uninhibited
enough to release the necessary force from his own body, instead of from an unwilling and
undeserving victim!
Contrary to all established magical theory, the release of this force is NOT effected in the actual
spilling of blood, but in the death throes of the living creature! This discharge of bioelectrical
energy is the very same phenominon which occurs during any profound heightening of the
emotions, such as: sexual orgasm, blind anger, mortal terror, consuming grief, etc. Of these
emotions, the easiest entered into of one's own violation are sexual orgasm and anger, with
grief running a close third. Remembering that the two most readily available of these three
(sexual orgasm and anger) have been burned into man's unconscios as "sinful" by religionists,
it is small wonder they are shunned by the "white" magician, who plods along carrying the
greatest of all millstones of guilt!
The inhibitive and asinine absurdity in the need to kill an innocent living creature at the highpoint
of a ritual, as practiced by erstwhile "wizards", is obviously their "lesser of the evils"
when a discharge of energy is called for. These poor conscience-stricken fools, who have
been calling themselves witches and warlocks, would sooner chop the head off a goat or
chicken in an attempt to harness its death agony, than have the "blasphemous" bravery to
masturbate in full view of the Jehovah whom they claim to deny! The only way these mystical
cowards can ritualistically release themselves is through the agony of another's death (actually
their own, by proxy) rather than the indulgent force which produces life! The treaders of the
path of white light are truly the cold and the dead! No wonder these tittering pustules of
"mystical wisdom" must stand within protective circles to bind the "evil" forces in order to
keep themselves "safe" from attack - ONE GOOD ORGASM WOULD PROBABLY KILL THEM!
The use of a human sacrifice in a Satanic ritual does not imply that the sacrifice is slaughtered
"to appease the gods". Symbolically, the victim is destroyed through the working of a hex or
curse, which in turn leads to the physical, mental or emotional destruction of the "sacrifice" in
ways and means not attributable to the magician.
The only time a Satanist would perform a human sacrifice would be if it were to serve a twofold
purpose; that being to release the magician's wrath in the throwing of a curse, and more
important, to dispose of a totally obnoxious and deserving individual.
Under NO circumstances would a Satanist sacrifice any animal or baby! For centuries,
propagandists of the right-hand path have been prattling over the supposed sacrifices of small
children and voluptuous maidens at the hands of diabolists. It would be thought that anyone
reading or hearing of these heinous accounts would immediately question their authenticity,
taking into consideration the biased sources of the stories. On the contrary, as with all "holy"
lies which are accepted without reservation, this assumed modus operandi of the Satanists
persists to this day!
There are sound and logical reasons why the Satanists could not perform such sacrifices. Man,
the animal, is the godhead to the Satanist. The purest form of carnal existence reposes in the
bodies of animals and human children who have not grown old enough to deny themselves
their natural desires. They can perceive things that the average adult human can never hope to.
Therefore, the Satanist holds these beings in a sacred regard, knowing he can learn much from
these natural magicians of the world.
The Satanist is aware of the universal custom of the treader of the path of Agarthi; the killing
of the god. Inasmuch as gods are always created in man's own image - and the average man
hates what he sees in himself - the inevitable must occur: the sacrifice of the god who
represents himself. The Satanist does not hate himself, nor the gods he might choose, and has
no desire to destroy himself or anything for which he stands! It is for this reason he could
never willfully harm an animal or child.

[LoneGunman]

The question arises, "Who, then, would be considered a fit and proper human sacrifice, and
how is one qualified to pass judgment on such a person?" The answer is brutally simple.
Anyone who has unjustly wronged you - one who has "gone out of his way" to hurt you - to
deliberately cause trouble and hardship for you or those dear to you. In short, a person asking
to be cursed by their very actions.
When a person, by his reprehensible behavior, practically cries out to be destroyed, it is truly
your moral obligation to indulge them their wish. The person who takes every opportunity to
"pick on" others is often mistakenly called "sadistic". In reality, this person is a misdirected
masochist who is working towards his own destruction. The reason a person viciously strikes
out against you is because they are afraid of you or what you represent, or are resentful of
your happiness. They are weak, insecure, and on extremely shaky ground when you throw
your curse, and they make ideal human sacrifices.
It is sometimes easy to overlook the actual wrongdoing of the victim of your curse, when one
considers how "unhappy" a person he really is. It is not so easy, though, to retrace the
damaging footsteps of your antagonist and make right those practical situations he or she has
made wrong.
The "ideal sacrifice" may be emotionally insecure, but nonetheless can, in the machinations of
his insecurity, cause severe damage to your tranquility or sound reputation. "Mental illness",
"nervous breakdown", "maladjustment", "anxiety neuroses", "broken homes", "sibling
rivalry", etc., etc., ad infinitum have too long been convenient excuses for vicious and
irresponsible actions. Anyone who says "we must try to understand" those who make life
miserable for those undeserving of misery is aiding and abetting a social cancer! The
apologists for these rabid humans deserve any clobberings they get at the hands of their
charges!
Mad dogs are destroyed, and they need help far more than the human who conveniently made
froths at the mouth when irrational behavior is in order! It is easy to say, "So what! - these
people are insecure, so they can't hurt me." But the fact remains - given the opportunity they
would destroy you!
Therefore, you have every right to (symbolically) destroy them, and if your curse provokes
their actual annihilation, rejoice that you have been instrumental in ridding the world of a
pest! If your success or happiness disturbs a person - you owe him nothing! He is made to be
trampled under foot! IF PEOPLE HAD TO TAKE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR OWN ACTIONS, THEY WOULD THINK
TWICE!

LIFE AFTER DEATH THROUGH FULFILLMENT OF THE EGO
MAN is aware that he will die, someday. Other animals, when nearing death, know
they are about to die; but it is not until death is certain that the animal senses his
coming departure from this world. And even then he does not know exactly what is
entailed in dying. It is often pointed out that animals accept death gracefully, without
fear or resistance. This is a beautiful concept, but one that only holds true in cases
where death for the animal is unavoidable.
When an animal is sick or injured he will fight for his life with every ounce of strength
he has left. It is this unshakable will to live that, if man were not so "highly evolved", would
also give him the fighting spirit he needs to stay alive.
It is a well known fact that many people die simply because they give up and just don't care
anymore. This is understandable if the person is very ill, with no apparent chance for
recovery. But this often is not the case. Man has become lazy. He has learned to take the easy
way out. Even suicide has become less repugnant to many people than any number of other
sins. Religion is totally to blame for this.
Death, in most religions, is touted as a great spiritual awakening - one which is prepared for
throughout life. This concept is very appealing to one who has not had a satisfactory life; but
to those who have experienced all the joys life has to offer, there is a great dread attached to
dying. This is as it should be. It is this lust for life which will allow the vital person to live on
after the inevitable death of his fleshly shell.
History shows that men who have given their own lives in pursuit of an ideal have been
deified for their martyrdom. Religionists and political leaders have been very crafty in laying
their plans. By holding the martyr up as a shining example to his fellow men, they eliminate
the common sense reaction that willful self-destruction goes against all animal logic. To the
Satanist, martyrdom and non-personalized heroism is to be associated not with integrity, but
with stupidity. This, of course, does not apply to the situations which involve the safety of a
loved one. But to give one's own life for something as impersonal as a political or religious
issue is the ultimate in masochism.
Life is the one great indulgence; death the one great abstinence. To a person who is satisfied
with his earthly existence, life is like a party; and no one likes to leave a good party. By the
same token, if a person is enjoying himself here on earth he will not so readily give up this
life for the promise of an afterlife about which he knows nothing.
The Eastern mystical beliefs teach humans to discipline themselves against any conscious will
for success so they might dessolve themselves into "Universal Cosmic Awareness" - anything
to avoid good healthy self-satisfaction or honest pride in earthly accomplishments!
It is interesting to note that the areas in which this type of belief flourishes are those where
material gains are not easily obtainable. For this reason the predominant religious belief must
be one which commends its followers for their rejection of material things and their avoidance
of the use of labels which attaches a certain amount of importance to material gains. In this
way the people can be pacified into accepting their lot, no matter how small it may be.
Satanism uses many labels. If it were not for names, very few of us would understand
anything in life, much less attach any significance to it; - and significance compels
recognition, which is something everyone wants, especially the Eastern mystic who tries to
prove to everyone he can meditate longer or stand more deprivation and pain than the next
fellow.
The Eastern philosophies preach the dissolution of man's ego before he can produce sins. It is
unfathomable to the Satanist to conceive of an ego which would willfully choose denial of
itself.
In countries where this is used as a sop for the willingly impoverished, it is understandable
that a philosophy which teaches the denial of the ego would serve a useful purpose - at least
for those in power, to whom it would be detrimental if their people were discontented. But for
anyone who has every opportunity for material gain, to choose this form of religious thought
seems foolish, indeed!
The Eastern mystic believes strongly in reincarnation. To a person who has virtually nothing
in this life, the possibility that he may have been a king in a past life or may be one in the next
life is very attractive, and does much to appease his need for self-respect. If there is nothing in
which they can take pride in this life, they can console themselves by thinking, "there are
always future lives." It never occurs to the believer in reincarnation that if his father,
grandfather, and great-grandfather, etc. had developed "good karmas", by their adherence to
the same beliefs and ethics as his present ones - then why is he now living in privation, rather
than like a maharajah?
Belief in reincarnation provides a beautiful fantasy world in which a person can find the
proper avenue of ego-expression, but at the same time claim to have dissolved his ego. This is
emphasized by the roles people choose for themselves in their past or future lives.
Believers in reincarnation do not always choose an honorable character. If the person is of a
highly respectable and conservative nature, he will often choose a colorful rogue or gangster,
thereby fulfilling his alter-ego. Or, a woman who has much social status may pick a harlot or
famous courtesan for the characterization of herself in a past life.
If people were able to divorce themselves from the stigma attached to personal egofulfillment,
they would not need to play self-deceitful games such as belief in reincarnation as
a means of satisfying their natural need for ego-fulfillment.
The Satanist believes in complete gratification of his ego. Satanism, in fact, is the only
religion which advocates the intensification or encouragement of the ego. Only if a person's
own ego is sufficiently fulfilled, can he afford to be kind and complimentary to others,
without robbing himself of his self-respect. We generally think of a braggart as a person with
a large ego; in reality, his bragging results from a need to satisfy his impoverished ego.
Religionists have kept their followers in line by suppressing their egos. By making their
followers feel inferior, the awesomeness of their god is insured. Satanism encourages its
members to develop a good strong ego because it gives them the self-respect necessary for a
vital existence in this life.

[mancombseepgood]

Lonegunman... I think we all lost you somewhere...
what was your point?
So far you have told us Anton Lavey was a basket case...
The Satanic bible was a hoax....
you are just trolling cos you don't work...
what else?

[LoneGunman]

If a person has been vital throughout his life and has fought to the end for his earthly
existence, it is this ego which will refuse to die, even after the expiration of the flesh which
housed it. Young children are to be admired for their driving enthusiasm for life. This is
exemplified by the small child who refuses to go to bed when there is something exciting
going on, and when once put to bed, will sneak down the stairs to peek through the curtain
and watch. It is this child-like vitality that will allow the Satanist to peek through the curtain
of darkness and death and remain earthbound.
Self-sacrifice is not encouraged by the Satanic religion. Therefore, unless death comes as an
indulgence because of extreme circumstances which make the termination of life a welcome
relief from the unendurable earthyl existence, suicide is frowned upon by the Satanic religion.
Religious martyrs have taken their own lives, not because life was intolerable for them, but to
use their supreme sacrifice as a tool to further the religious belief. We must assume, then, that
suicide, if done for the sake of the church, is condoned and even encouraged - even though
their scriptures label it a sin - because religious martyrs of the past have always been deified.
It is rather curious that the only time suicide is considered sinful by other religions is when it
comes as an indulgence.

RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS
THE highest of all holidays in the Satanic religion is the date of one's own birth. This
is in direct contradiction to the holy of holy days of other religions, which deify a
particular god who has been created in an anthropomorphic form of their own image,
thereby showing that the ego is not really buried.
The Satanist feels: "Why not really be honest and if you are going to create a god in
your image, why not create that god as yourself." Every man is a god if he chooses to
recognize himself as one. So, the Satanist celebrates his own birthday as the most
important holiday of the year. After all, aren't you happier about the fact that you were born
than you are about the birth of someone you have never even met? Or for that matter, aside
from religious holidays, why pay higher tribute to the birthday of a president or to a date in
history than we do to the day we were brought into this greatest of all worlds?
Despite the fact that some of us may not have been wanted, or at least were not particularly
planned, we're glad, even if no one else is, that we're here! You should give yourself a pat on
the back, buy yourself whatever you want, treat yourself like the king (or god) that you are,
and generally celebrate your birthday with as much pomp and ceremony as possible.
After one's own birthday, the two major Satanic holidays are Walpurgisnacht and Halloween
(or All Hallows' Eve).
St. Walpurgis - or Walpurga, or Walburga, depending upon the time and area in which one is
referring to her - was born in Sussex about the end of the Seventh or the beginning of the
Eighth Century, and was educated at Winburn, Dorset, where after taking the veil, she
remained for twenty-five years. She then, at the instance of her uncle, St. Boniface, and her
brother, St. Wilibald, set out along with some other nuns to found religious houses in
Germany. Her first settlement was at Bischofsheim in the diocese of Mainz, and two years
later (754 A.D.) she became abbess of the Benedictine nunnery at Heidenheim, within her
brother Wilibald's diocese of Eichstadt in Bavaria, where another brother, Winebald, had at
the same time also been made head of a monastery. On the death of Winebald in 760 she
succeeded him in his charge, retaining the superintendence of both houses until her death on
February 25, 779. Her relics were translated to Eichstadt, where she was laid in a hollow rock,
from which exuded a kind of bituminous oil, afterwards known as Walpurgis oil, regarded as
having miraculous efficacy against disease. The cave became a place of pilgrimage, and a
great church was built over the spot. She is commemorated at various times, but principally
on May 1st, her day taking the place of an earlier Pagan festival. Amazingly enough, all of
this rigmarole was found necessary simply to condone the continuance of the most important
Pagan festival of the year - the grand climax of the spring equinox!
The Eve of May has been memorialized as the night that all of the demons, specters, afreets,
and banshees would come forth and hold their wild revels, symbolizing the fruition of the
spring equinox.
Halloween - All Hallows' Eve, or All Saints' Day - falls on October 31st or November 1st.
Originally, All Hallows' Eve was one of the great fire festivals of Britain at the time of the
Druids. In Scotland it was associated with the time when the spirits of the dead, the demons,
witches, and sorcerers were unusually active and propitious. Paradoxically, All Hallows' Eve
was also the night when young people performed magical rituals to determine their future
marriage partners. The youth of the villages carried on with much merry-making and sensual
revelry, but the older people took great care to safeguard their homes from the evil spirits,
witches, and demons who had exceptional power that night.
The solstices and equinoxes are also celebrated as holidays, as they herald the first day of the
seasons. The difference between a solstice and an equinox is a semantic one defining the
relationship between the sun, moon, and the fixed stars. The solstice applies to summer and
winter; the equinox refers to autumn and spring. The summer solstice is in June, and the
winter solstice is in December. The autumn equinox is in September, and the spring equinox
is in March. Both the equinoxes and the solstices vary a day or two from year to year,
depending on the lunar cycle at the time, but usually fall on the 21st or 22nd of the month.
Five to six weeks after these days the legendary Satanic revels are celebrated.

THE BLACK MASS
NO other single device has been associated with Satanism as much as the black mass.
To say that the most blasphemous of all religious ceremonies is nothing more than a
literary invention is certainly a statement which needs qualifying - but nothing could
be truer.
The popular concept of the black mass is thus: a defrocked priest stands before an altar
consisting of a nude woman, her legs spread-eagled and vagina thrust open, each of her
outstretched fists grasping a black candle made from the fat of unbaptized babies, and
a chalice containing the urine of a prostitute (or blood) reposing on her belly. An inverted
cross hangs above the altar, and triangular hosts of ergot-laden bread or black-stained turnip
are methodically blessed as the priest dutifully slips them in and out of the altar-lady's labia.
Then, we are told, an invocation to Satan and various demons is followed by an array of
prayers and psalms chanted backwards or interspersed with obscenities . . . all performed
within the confines of a "protective" pentagram drawn on the floow. If the Devil appears he is
invariably in the form of a rather eager man wearing the head of a black goat upon his
shoulders. Then follows a potpouri of flagellation, prayer-book burning, cunnilingus, fellatio,
and general hindquarters kissing - all done to a background of ribald recitations from the Holy
Bible, and audible expectorations on the cross! If a baby can be slaughtered during the ritual,
so much the better; for as everyone knows, this is the favorite sport of the Satanist!
If this sounds repugnant, then the success of the reports of the black mass, in keeping the
devout in church, is easy to understand. No "decent" person could fail to side with the
inquisitors when told of these blasphemies. The propagandists of the church did their job well,
informing the public at one time or another of the heresies and heinous acts of the Pagans,
Cathars, Bogomils, Templars and others who, because of their dualistic philosophies and
sometimes Satanic logic, had to be eradicated.
The stories of unbaptized babies being stolen by Satanists for use in the mass were not only
effective propoganda measures, but also provided a constant source of revenue for the
Church, in the form of baptism fees. No Christian mother would, upon hearing of these
diabolical kidnappings, refrain from getting her child properly baptized, post haste.
Another facet of man's nature was apparent in the fact that the writer or artist with lewd
thoughts could exercise his most obscene predilections in the portrayal of the activities of
heretics. The censor who views all pornography so that he will know what to warn others of is
the modern equivalent of the medieval chronicler of the obscene deeds of the Satanists (and,
of course, their modern journalistic counterparts). It is believed that the most complete library
of pornography in the world is owned by the Vatican!
The kissing of the Devil's behind during the traditional black mass is easily recognized as the
forerunner of the modern term used to describe one who will, through appealing to another's
ego, gain materially from him. As all Satanic ceremonies were performed toward very real or
material goals, the oscularum infame (or kiss of shame) was considered a symbolic requisite
towards earthly, rather than spiritual, success.
The usual assumption is that the Satanic ceremony or service is always called a black mass. A
black mass is not the magical ceremony practiced by Satanists. The Satanist would only
employ the use of a black mass as a form of psychodrama. Furthermore, a black mass does
not necessarily imply that the performers of such are Satanists. A black mass is essentially a
parody of the religious service of the Roman Catholic Church, but can be loosely applied to a
satire on any religious ceremony.

[mancombseepgood]

Lonegunman... I think we all lost you somewhere...
what was your point?
So far you have told us Anton Lavey was a basket case...
The Satanic bible was a hoax....
you are just trolling cos you don't work...
what else?

You there Lonegunman?
Anytime you are finished copying and pasting...

[LoneGunman]

To the Satanist, the black mass, in its blaspheming of orthodox rites, is nothing more than a
redundancy. The services of all established religions are actually parodies of old rituals
performed by the worshippers of the earth and the flesh. In attempts to de-sexualize and dehumanize
the Pagan beliefs, later men of spiritual faith whitewashed the honest meanings
behind the rituals into the bland euphemisms now considered to be the "true mass". Even if
the Satanist were to spend each night performing a black mass, he would no more be
performing a travesty than the devout churchgoer who unwittingly attends his own "black
mass" - his spoof on the honest and emotionally-sound rites of Pagan antiquity.
Any ceremony considered a black mass must effectively shock and outrage, as this seems to
be the measure of its success. In the Middle Ages, blaspheming the holy church was shocking.
Now, however, the Church does not present the awesome image it did during the inquisition.
The traditional black mass is no longer the outrageous spectacle to the dilettante or renegade
priest that it once was. If the Satanist wishes to create a ritual to blaspheme an accepted
institution, for the purpose of psychodrama, he is careful to choose one that is not in vogue to
parody. Thus, he is truly stepping on a sacred cow.
A black mass, today, would consist of the blaspheming of such "sacred" topics as Eastern
mysticism, psychiatry, the psychedelic movement, ultra-liberalism, etc. Patriotism would be
championed, drugs and their gurus would be defiled, acultural militants would be deified, and
the decadence of ecclesiastical theologies might even be given a Satanic boost.
The Satanic magus has always been the catalyst for the dichotomy necessary in molding
popular beliefs, and in this case a ceremony in the nature of a black mass may serve a farreaching
magical purpose.
In the year 1666, some rather interesting events occurred in France. With the death of
Fran&#231;ois Mansart, the architect of the trapezoid, whose geometrics were to become the
prototype of the haunted house, the Palace of Versailles was being constructed, in accordance
with his plans. The last of the glamorous priestesses of Satan, Jeanne-Marie Bouvier
(Madame Guyon) was to be overshadowed by a shrewd opportunist and callous businesswoman
named Catharine Deshayes, otherwise known as LaVoisin. Here was an erstwhile
beautician who, while dabbling in abortions and purveying the most efficient poisons to ladies
desirous of eliminating unwanted husbands or lovers, found in the lurid accounts of the
"messes noir" a proverbial brainstorm.
It is safe to say that 1666 was the year of the first "commercial" black mass! In the region
south of St. Denis, which is now called LaGarenne, a great walled house was purchased by
LaVoisin and fitted with dispensaries, cells, laboratories, and . . . a chapel. Soon it became de
rigueur for royalty and lesser dillettantes to attend and participate in the very type of service
mentioned earlier in this chapter. The organized fraud perpetrated in these ceremonies has
become indelibly marked in history as the "true black mass".
When LaVoisin was arrested on March 13, 1679 (in the Church of Our Blessed Lady of Good
Tidings, incidentally), the die had already been cast. The degraded activities of LaVoisin had
stifled the majesty of Satanism for many years to come. 
The Satanism-for-fun-and-games fad next appeared in England in the middle 18th Century in
the form of Sir Francis Dashwood's Order of the Medmanham Fanciscans, popularly called
The Hell-Fire Club. While eliminating the blood, gore, and baby-fat candles of the previous
century's masses, Sir Francis managed to conduct rituals replete with good dirty fun, and
certainly provided a colorful and harmless form of psychodrama for many of the leading
lights of the period. An interesting sideline of Sir Francis, which lends a clue to the climate of
the Hell-Fire Club, was a group called the Dilettanti Club, of which he was the founder.
It was the 19th Century that brought a whitewashing to Satanism, in the feeble attempts of
"white" magicians trying to perform "black" magic. This was a very paradoxical period for
Satanism, with writers such as Baudelaire and Huysmans who, despite their apparent
obsession with evil, seemed nice enough fellows. The Devil developed his Luciferian
personality for the public to see, and gradually evolved into a sort of drawing-room
gentleman. This was the era of "experts" on the black arts, such as Eliphas Levi and countless
trance-mediums who, with their carefully bound spirits and demons, have also succeeded in
binding the minds of many who call themselves parapsychologists to this day!
As far as Satanism is concerned, the closest outward signs of this were the neo-Pagan rites
conducted by MacGregor Mathers' Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and Aleister
Crowley's later Order of the Silver Star (A... A... - Argentinum Astrum) and Order of Oriental
Templars (O.T.O.)*, which paranoiacally denied any association with Satanism, despite
Crowley's self-imposed image of the beast of revelation. Aside from some rather charming
poetry and a smattering of magical bric-a-brac, when not climbing mountains Crowley spent
most of his time as a poseur par excellence and worked overtime to be wicked. Like his
contemporary, Rev.(?) Mantague Summers, Crowley obviously spent a large part of his life
with his tongue jammed firmly into his cheek, but his followers, today, are somehow able to
read esoteric meaning into his every word.
Perennially concurrent with these societies were the sex clubs using Satanism as a rationale -
that persists today, for which tabloid newspaper writers may give thanks.
If it appears that the black mass developed from a literary invention of the church, to a
depraved commercial actuality, to a psychodrama for dilettantes and iconoclasts, to an ace in
the hole for popular media . . . then where does it fit into the true nature of Satanism - and
who was practicing Satanic magic in those years beyond 1666?
The answer to this riddle lies in another. Is the person generally considered to be a Satanist
really practicing Satanism in its true sense, or rather from the point of view taken by the
opinion makers of heavenly persuasion? It has often been said, and rightly so, that all of the
books about the Devil have been written by the agents of God. It is, therefore, quite easy to
understand how a certain breed of devil worshippers was created through the inventions of
theologians. This erstwhile "evil" character is not necessarily practicing true Satanism. Nor is
he a living embodiment of the element of untrammeled pride or majesty of self which gave
the post-Pagan world the churchman's definition of evil. He is instead the by-product of later
and more elaborate propaganda.
The pseudo-Satanist has always managed to appear throughout modern history, with his black
masses of varying degrees of blasphemy; but the real Satanist is not quite so easily recognized
as such.

[lilDeath]

this thread is taking up more than my budgeted bandwidth.... :eek:

[LoneGunman]

It would be an over-simplification to say that every successful man and woman on earth is,
without knowing it, a practicing Satanist; but the thirst for earthly success and its ensuing
realization are certainly grounds for Saint Peter turning thumbs down. If the rich man's entry
into heaven seems as difficult as the camel's attempt to go through the eye of a needle; if the
love of money is the root of all evil; then we must at least assume the post powerful men on
earth to be the most Satanic. This applies to financiers, industrialists, popes, poets, dictators,
and all assorted opinion-makers and field marshals of the world's activities.
Occasionally, through "leakages", one of the enigmatic men or women of earth will be found
to have "dabbled" in the black arts. These, of course, are brought to light as in the "mystery
men" of history. Names like Rasputin, Zaharoff, Cagliostro, Rosenberg and their ilk are links
- clues, so to speak, of the true legacy of Satan . . . a legacy which transcends ethnic, racial,
and econimic differences and temporal ideologies, as well. The Satanist has always ruled the
earth . . . and always will, by whatever name he is called.
One thing stands sure: the standards, philosophy and practices set forth on these pages are
those employed by the most self-realized and powerful humans on earth. In the secret
thoughts of each man and woman, still motivated byt sound and unclouded minds, resides the
potential of the Satanist, as always has been. The sign of the horns shall appear to many, now,
rather than the few; and the magician will stand forth that he may be recognized.

(EARTH)
THE BOOK OF BELIAL
THE MASTERY OF THE EARTH
The greatest appeal of magic is not in its application, but in its esoteric meanderings. The
element of mystery which so heavily enshrouds the practice of the black arts has been
fostered, deliberately or out of ignorance, by those who often claim the highest expertise in
such matters. If the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, then established
occultists would do well as maze-makers. The basic principles of ceremonial magic have been
relegated for so long to infinitely classified bits of scholastic mysticism, that the would-be
wizard becomes the victim of the very art of misdirection which he, himself, should be
employing! An analogy may be drawn of the student of applied psychology who, though
knowing all of the answers, cannot make friends.
What good is a study of falsehoods, unless everyone believes in falsehoods? Many, of course,
DO believe in falsehoods, but still ACT according to natural law. It is upon this premise that
Satanic magic is based. This is a primer - a basic text on materialistic magic. It is a Satanic
McGuffrey's Reader.
Belial means "without a master", and symbolizes true independence, self-sufficiency, and
personal accomplishment. Belial represents the earth element, and herein will be found magic
with both feet on the ground - real, hard-core, magical procedure - not mystical platitudes
devoid of objective reason. Probe no longer. Here is bedrock!

THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF SATANIC MAGIC
(Definition and Purpose)
THE definition of magic, as used in this book, is: "The change in situations or events
in accordance with one's will, which would, using normally accepted methods, be
unchangable." This admittedly leaves a large area for personal interpretation. It will be
said, by some, that these instructions and procedures are nothing more than applied
psychology, or scientific fact, called by "magical" terminology - until they arrive at a
passage in the text that is "based on no known scientific finding". It is for this reason
that no attempt has been made to limit the explanations set forth to a set nomenclature.
Magic is never totally scientifically explainable, but science has always been, at one
time or another, considered magic.
There is no difference between "White" and "Black" magic, except in the smug hypocrisy,
guilt-ridden righteousness, and self-deceit of the "White" magician himself. In the classical
religious tradition, "White" magic is performed for altruistic, benevolent, and "good"
purposes; while "Black" magic is used for self-aggrandizement, personal power, and "evil"
purposes. No one on earth ever pursued occult studies, metaphysics, yoga, or any other "white
light" concept, without ego gratification and personal power as a goal. It just so happens that
some people enjoy wearing hair shirts, and others prefer velvet or silk. What is pleasure to
one, is pain to another, and the same applies to "good" and "evil". Every practitioner of
witchcraft is convinced that he or she is doing the "right" thing.
Magic falls into two categories, ritual or ceremonial, and non-ritual or manipulative. Ritual
magic consists of the performance of a formal ceremony, taking place, at least in part, within
the confines of an area set aside for such purposes and at a specific time. Its main function is
to isolate the otherwise dissipated adrenal and other emotionally induced energy, and convert
it into a dynamically transmittable force. It is purely an emotional, rather than intellectual, act.
Any and all intellectual activity must take place before the ceremony, not during it. This type
of magic is sometimes known as "GREATER MAGIC".
Non-ritual or manipulative magic, sometimes called "LESSER MAGIC", consists of the wile and
guile obtained through various devices and contrived situations, which when utilized, can
create "change, in accordance with one's will". In olden times this would be called
"fascination", "glamour", or the "evil eye".
Most of the victims of the witch trials were not witches. Often the victims were eccentric old
women who were either senile or did not conform to society. Others were exceptionally
attractive women who turned the heads of the men in power, and were not responsive to their
advances. The real witches were rarely executed, or even brought to trial, as they were
proficient in the art of enchantment and could charm the men and save their own lives. Most
of the real witches were sleeping with the inquisitors. This is the origin of the word
"glamour". The antiquated meaning of glamour is witchcraft. The most important asset to the
modern witch is her ability to be alluring, or to utilize glamour. The word "fascination" has a
similarly occult origin. Fascination was the term applied to the evil eye. To fix a person's
gaze, in other words, fascinate, was to curse them with the evil eye. Therefore, if a woman
had the ability to fascinate men, she was regarded as a witch.

[mancombseepgood]

this thread is taking up more than my budgeted bandwidth.... :eek:

But you gotta admit... it keeps lonegunman busy with something he enjoys ;)

[LoneGunman]

Learning to effectively utilize the command to LOOK, is an integral part of a witch's or
warlock's training. To manipulate a person, you must first be able to attract and hold his
attention. The three methods by which the command to look can be accomplished are the
utilization of sex, sentiment, or wonder, or any combination of these. A witch must, honestly,
decide into which category she most naturally falls. The first category, that of sex, is selfevident.
If a woman is attractive or sexually appealing, she should do everything in her power
to make herself as enticing as possible, thereby using sex as her most powerful tool. Once she
has gained the man's attention, by using her sex appeal, she is free to manipulate him to her
will. The second category is sentiment. Usually older woman fit into this category. This
would include the "cookie lady" type witch, who might live in a little cottage, and be thought
of by people as being a bit eccentric. Children are usually enchanted by the fantasy that this
type of witch can provide for them, and young adults seek her out for her sage-like advice.
Through their innocence, children can recognize her magical power. By conforming to an
image of the sweet little old lady next door, she can employ the art of misdirection to
accomplish her goals. The third category is the wonder theme. This category would apply to
the woman who is strange or awesome in her appearance. By making her strange appearance
work for her, she can manipulate people simply becuase they are fearful of the consequences
should they not do as she asks.
Many women fit into more than one of these categories. For example, the young girl who has
an appearance of freshness and innocence, but at the same time is very sexy, combines sex
appeal with sinister overtones, uses sex and wonder. After evaluating her assets, each witch
must decide into which category or combination of categories she fits, and then utilize these
assets in their proper form.
To be a successful warlock, a man must similarly fit himself into the proper category. The
handsome or sexually appealing man would, naturally, fit into the first category - sex. The
second, or sentiment category would apply to the older man who has, perhaps, an elfin or
forest wizard appearance. The sweet old grandpa (often a dirty old man!) would also be in the
sentiment category. The third type would be the man who presents a sinister or diabolic
appearance. Each of these men would apply his particular brand of the command to look, in
much the same way as the women previously described.
Visual imagery utilized for emotional reaction is certainly the most important device
incorporated in the practice of lesser magic. Anyone who is foolish enough to say "looks don't
mean a thing" is indeed deluded. Good looks are unnecessary, but "looks" certainly are
needed!
Odor is another important manipulative factor in lesser magic. Remember, animals fear and
distrust anyone or anything that doesn't smell! And even though we may, as human animals,
deny many of the judgments based on this sense consciously, we still are motivated by our
sense of smell just as surely as any all-fours animal. If you are a man, and wish to enchant a
woman, allow the natural secretions of your body to pervade the atmosphere immediately
around you, and work in animalistic contrast to the vestments of social politeness that you
wear upon your back. If you, as a woman, wish to bewitch a man, do not fear that you might
"offend" simply because the oils and fragrances of your flesh have not been scrubbed away,
or that place between your thighs is not dry and sterile. These natural odors are the sexual
stimulants which nature, in her magical wisdom, has provided.
The sentiment stimulants are those odors that will appeal to pleasant memories and nostalgia.
The enchanting of a man, through his stomach, is first established by the smell of cooking! A
"sentiment" type of witch will find this one of the most useful of all charms. It is not so
facetious to dwell upon the technique of the man who wished to charm the young lady who
had been displaced from her home of childhood joys, which happened to be a fishing village.
Wise to the ways of lesser magic, he neatly tucked a mackerel into his trousers pocket, and
reaped the rewards that great fondness may often bring.

THE THREE TYPES OF SATANIC RITUAL
THERE are three types of ceremony incorporated in the practice of Satanic magic. Each
of these correspond to a basic human emotion. The first of these we shall call a sex
ritual.
A sex ritual is what is commonly known as a love charm or spell. The purpose in
performing such a ritual is to create desire on the part of the person whom you desire,
or to summon a sex partner to fulfill your desires. If you have no specific person or
type of person in mind strong enough to cause direct sexual feeling culminating in
orgasm, you will not succeed in performing as successfull working. The reason for this is that
even if the ritual was successful, by accident, what good would it serve if you could not take
advantage of your eventual opportunity because of lack of stimulation or desire? It is easy to
confuse enchantment for your ulterior motives, with spell-casting to satisfy your sexual
desires.
Enchantment for self-aggrandizement, when accompanied by ceremonial magic, falls into the
category of either the compassion or the destruction ritual, or possibly both. If you want or
need something so badly you are sad or feel much anguish without it, without causing hurt on
another's part, then this would incorporate a compassion ritual to increase your power. If you
wish to enchant or entrap a deserving victim for your own purposes, you would employ a
destruction ritual. These formulas are to be adhered to, as applying the wrong type of ritual
towards a desired result can lead to trouble of a complicated nature.
A good example of this is the girl who finds herself plagued by a relentless suitor. If she has
done little to encourage him, then she should recognize him for the psychic vampire he is, and
let him play his masochistic role. If, however, she has enchanted him frivolously, giving him
every encouragement and then finds herself a steady object of sexual desire, much to her
dismay, she has no one to blame but herself. Such exercises are only ego boosts, borne of an
indoctrination of ego denial which makes these little bewitchments necessary. The Satanist
has enough ego strength to use enchantments for her own sexual gratification, or to gain
power or success of a specific nature.
The second type of ritual is of a compassionate nature. The compassion, or sentiment, ritual is
performed for the purpose of helping others, or helping oneself. Health, domestic happiness,
business activities, material success, and scholastic prowess are but a few of the situations
covered in a compassion ritual. It might be said that this form of ceremony could fall into the
realm of genuine charity, bearing in mind that "charity begins at home".
The third motivating force is that of destruction. This is a ceremony used for anger,
annoyance, disdain, contempt, or just plain hate. It is known as a hex, curse, or destroying
agent.
One of the greatest of all fallacies about the practice of ritual magic is the notion that one
must believe in the powers of magic before one can be harmed or destroyed by them. Nothing
could be farther from the truth, as the most receptive victims of curses have always been the
greatest scoffers. The reason is frighteningly simple. The uncivilized tribesman is the first to
run to his nearest witch-doctor or shaman when he feels a curse has been placed upon him by
an enemy. The threat and presence of harm is with him consciously, and belief in the power of
the curse is so strong that he will take every precaution against it. Thus, through the
application of sympathetic magic, he will counteract any harm that might come his way. This
man is watching his step, and not taking any chances.
On the other hand, the "enlightened" man, who doesn't place any stock in such "superstition",
relegates his instinctive fear of the curse to his unconscious, thereby nourishing it into a
phenominally destructive force that will multiply with each succeeding misfortune. Of course,
every time a new setback occurs, the non-believer will automatically deny any connection
with the curse, especially to himself. The emphatic conscious denial of the potential of the
curse is the very ingredient that will create its success, through setting-up of accident prone
situations. In many instances, the victim will deny any magical significance to his fate, even
unto his dying gasp - although the magician is perfectly satisfied, so long as his desired results
occur. It must be remembered that it matters not whether anyone attaches any significance to
your working, so long as the results of the working are in accordance with your will. The
super-logician will always explain the connection of the magical ritual to the end result as
"coincidence".

[LoneGunman]

Whether magic is performed for constructive or destructive purposes, the success of the
operation is dependent on the receptivity of the person who is to receive the blessing or curse,
as the case may be. In the case of a sex or compassion ritual, it helps if the recipient has faith
and believes in magic, but the victim of a hex or curse is much more prone to destruction if he
DOES NOT believe in it! So long as man knows the meaning of fear, he will need the ways and
means to defend himself against his fears. No one knows everything, and as long as there is
wonder, there will always be an apprehension of the unknown, where there are potentially
dangerous forces. It is this natural fear of the unknown, a first cousin to the fascination
towards the unknown, that impels the man of logic towards his very explanations. Obviously,
the man of science is motivated to discovery by his very sense of wonder. And yet, how sad
that this man who calls himself logical is often the last to recognize the essence of ritual
magic.
If religious faith can make bleeding wounds appear on the body in approximation to the
wounds supposedly inflicted on Christ, it is called stigmata. These wounds appear as a result
of compassion driven to an emotionally violent extreme. Why, then, should there be any
doubt as to the destructive extremes of fear and terror. The so-called demons have the power
to destroy in a flesh rending manner, theoretically, as much as a handful of nails, long rusted
away, can create blood-dripping ecstasy in a person convinced he is hooked upon the cross of
Calvary.
Therefore, never attempt to convince the skeptic upon whom you wish to place a curse. Allow
him to scoff. To enlighten him would lessen your chance of success. Listen with benign
assurance as he laughs at your magic, knowing his days are filled with turmoil all the while. If
he is despicable enough, by Satan's grace, he might even die - laughing!
A WORD OF WARNING!
TO THOSE WHO WOULD PRACTICE THESE ARTS -
Concerning Sex or
Lust:
Take full advantage of spells and charms that work; if you be a
man, plunge your erect member into her with lascivious delight; if
you be a woman, open wide your loins in lewd anticipation.
Concerning
Compassion:
Be resolved that you'll have no regrets at the expense of the help
that you have given others, should their new-found blessings place
an obstacle in your path. Be grateful for things that come to you
through the use of magic.
Concerning
Destruction:
Be certain you DO NOT care if the intended victim lives or dies,
before you throw your curse, and having caused their destruction,
revel, rather than feel remorse.
HEED WELL THESE RULES - OR IN
EACH CASE YOU WILL SEE A REVERSAL
OF YOUR DESIRES WHICH WILL
HARM, RATHER THAN HELP, YOU!

THE RITUAL, OR "INTELLECTUAL DECOMPRESSION", CHAMBER
A MAGICAL ceremony may be performed by oneself or in a group, but the advantages
of each should be made clear.
A group ritual is certainly much more of a reinforcement of faith, and an instillation of
power, than is a private ceremony. The massing together of persons who are dedicated
to a common philosophy is bound to insure a renewal of confidence in the power of
magic. The pageantry of religion consistently becomes a solitary situation it reaches
into that realm of self-denail which runs concurrent with anti-social behavior.
It is for this reason that the Satanist should attempt to seek out others with whom to engage in
these ceremonies.
In the case of a curse or destruction ritual, it sometimes helps the magician if his desires are
intensified by other members of the group. There is nothing in this type of ceremony which
would lead to embarrassment on the part of those conducting a ritual of this sort, since anger
and the symbolic destruction of the intended victim are the essential ingredients.
On the other hand, a compassion ritual, with its unashamed shedding of tears, or a sex ritual,
with its masturbatory and orgasmic overtones, would most likely succeed best if privately
performed.
There is no place for self-consciousness in the ritual chamber, unless that very selfconsciousness
is an integral part of the role being played, and can be used to good advantage -
i.e.: the shame felt by a prudent woman serving as an altar, who, through her embarrassment,
feels sexual stimulation.
Even in a totally personalized ritual, however, the standardized preliminary invocations and
devices should be employed before the intimate fantasies and acting out occur. The formal
part of the ritual can be performed in the same room or chamber as the personalized working -
or, the formal ceremony in one place, the personal in another. The beginning and end of the
ritual must be conducted within the confines of the ritual chamber containing the symbolic
devices (altar, chalice, etc.).
The formalized beginning and end of the ceremony acts as a dogmatic, anti-intellectual
device, the purpose of which is to disassociate the activities and frame of reference of the
outside world from that of the ritual chamber, where the whole will must be employed. This
facet of the ceremony is most important to the intellectual, as he especially requires the
"decompression chamber" effect of the chants, bells, candles, and other trappings, before he
can put his pure and willful desires to work for himself, in the projection and utilization of his
imagery.
The "intellectual decompression chamber" of the Satanic temple might be considered a
training school for temporary ignorance, as are ALL religious services! The difference is that
the Satanist KNOWS he is practicing a form of contrived ignorance in order to expand his will,
whereas another religionist doesn't - or if he does know, he practices that form of self-deceit
which forbids such recognition. His ego is already too shaky from his religious inculcation to
allow himself to admit to such a thing as self-imposed ignorance!

THE INGREDIENTS USED IN THE PERFORMANCE OF SATANIC MAGIC
A. Desire
THE first ingredient in the performance of a ritual is desire, otherwise known as
motivation, temptation, or emotional persuasion. If you do not truly desire any end
result, you should not attempt to perform a working.
There is no such thing as a "practice" working, and the only way that a magician could
do "tricks" such as moving inanimate objects, would be to have a strong emotional
need to do so. It is true that if the magician wishes to gain power through impressing
others with his feats of magic, he must produce tangible proof of his ability. The
Satanic concept of magic, however, fails to find gratification in the proving of magical
prowess.
The Satanist performs his ritual to insure the outcome of his desires, and he would not waste
his time nor force of will on something so inconclusive as folling a pencil off a table, etc.
through the application of magic. The amount of energy needed to levitate a teacup
(genuinely) would be of sufficient force to place an idea in a group of people's heads half-way
across the earth, in turn, motivating them in accordance with your will. The Satanist knows
that even if you succeeded in lifting the teacup from the table, it would be assumed that
trickery was used anyway. Therefore, if the Satanist wants to float objects in mid-air, he uses
wires, mirrors, or other devices, and saves his force for self-aggrandizement. All "gifted"
mediums and white-light mystics practice pure and applied stage magic, with their blindfolds
and sealed envelopes, and any fairly competent stage magician, carnival worker, or lodge-hall
entertainer can duplicate the same effect - although lacking, perhaps, the sanctimonious
"spiritual" overtones.

[LoneGunman]

A little child learns that if he wishes for something hard enough, it will come true. This is
meaningful. Wishing indicates desire, whereas prayer is accompanied by apprehension.
Scripture has twisted desire into lust, covetousness, and greed. Be as a child, and do not stifle
desire, lest you lose touch with the first ingredient in the performance of magic. Be led into
temptation, and take that which tempts, whenever you can!

THE INGREDIENTS USED IN THE PERFORMANCE OF SATANIC MAGIC
B. Timing
IN every successful situation, one of the most important ingredients is the proper
timing. In the performance of a magical ritual, timing can mean success or failure to an
even greater extent. The best time to cast your spell or charm, hex or curse, is when
your target is at his most receptive state. Receptivity to the will of the magician is
assured when the recipient is as passive as possible. No matter how strong-willed one
is, he is naturally passive while he is asleep; therefore, the best time to throw your
magical energy towards your target is when he or she sleeps.
There are certain periods of the sleep cycle that are better than others for susceptibility to
outside influences. When a person is normally fatigued from a day's activities, he will "sleep
like a log" until his mind and body are rested. This period of profound sleep usually lasts
about four to six hours, after which the period of "dream sleep" occurs which lasts two or
three hours, or until awakening. It is during this "dream sleep" that the mind is most receptive
to outside or unconscious influence.
Let us assume the magician wishes to cast a spell on a person who would usually retire at 11
o'clock in the evening, and rise at 7 o'clock in the morning. The most effective time to
perform a ritual would be about 5 o'clock in the morning, or two hours before the recipient
awakens.
It is to be emphasized that the magician must be at his peak of efficiency, as he represents the
"sending" factor when he performs his ritual. Traditionally speaking, witches and sorcerers
are night people, and understandably so. What better schedule on which to live, for the
sending of thoughts towards unsuspecting sleepers! If only people were aware of the thoughts
injected into their minds while they slept! The dream state is the birthplace of much of the
future. Great thoughts are manifest upon awakening, and the mind that retains, in conscious
form, these thoughts, shall produce much. But he who is guided by thoughts unrecognized is
led into situations that will later be interpreted as "fate", "God's will", or accident.
There are other times in each person's day that lend themselves to the receiving of the will of
the wizard. Those times when day-dreaming or boredom ensue, or when time hangs heavy,
are fertile periods of suggestibility.
If a woman is the target for your spell, do not forget the importance of the menstrual cycle. If
man were not dulled through his stifling evolutionary development, he would know, as an allfours
animal knows, when the female was most sexually inclined. Man's snout, however
unsullied by cheap opiates, is not normally equipped to ferret out such tell-tale erotic scents.
Even if he were so endowed with such olfactory powers, the object of his quest would most
likely "throw him off the scent" through the use of massive doses of perfumery to cover and
smother the "offending" effluvium, or eliminate detection completely, by the astringent action
of powerful deodorants.
Despite these discouraging factors, man is still motivated to desire or be repelled, as the case
may be, by his unconscious recognition of the change in woman's body chemistry. This is
accomplished in the form of a sensory cue, which is olfactory in its nature. To go backwards,
in what would amount to a return to the all-fours animal, would seem to be the best exercise
for the conscious application of these powers, but to the squeamish might smack of
lycanthropy. There is, however, an easier way, and that is to simply ascertain the dates and
frequency of the menstrual cycle of the woman who is your target. It is immediately before
and after the period itself that the average woman is most sexually approachable. Therefore,
the magician will find the sleep period during these times most effective for the instillation of
thoughts or motivations of a sexual nature.
Witches and sorceresses have a much greater range of time in which to cast their spells
toward the men of their choice. Becuase man is more consistent in his sexual drives than
woman (although there are many women with equal or even greater lusts), day to day timing
is not as important. Any man who is not already drained of all sexual energy is a "sitting
duck" for the proficient witch. The time of the year following the spring equinox is the most
fraught with sexual vigor in a man, and he asserts himself accordingly; but the witch, in turn,
must work her magic stronger, as she will find his eyes will stray.
Should the fearful ask, "Is there no defense against such witchery?" it must be answered thus -
"Yes, there is protection. You must never sleep, never daydream, never be without a vital
thought, and never have an open mind. Then you shall be protected from the forces of magic."

THE INGREDIENTS USED IN THE PERFORMANCE OF SATANIC MAGIC
C. Imagery
THE adolescent boy who takes great care in carving, on a tree, a heart containing his
and his love object's initials; the little chap who sits by the hour drawing his conception
of sleek automobiles; the tiny girl who rocks a scuffed and ragged doll in her arms, and
thinks of it as her beautiful little baby - these capable witches and warlocks, these
natural magicians, are employing the magical ingredient known as imagery, and the
success of any ritual depends on it.
Children, not knowing or caring if they possess artistic skill or other creative talents,
pursue their goals through the use of imagery of their own manufacture, whereas "civilized"
adults are much more critical of their own creative efforts. This is why a "primitive" magician
can utilize a mud doll or crude drawing to successful advantage in his magical ceremonies. To
HIM, the image is as accurate as needs be.
Anything which serves to intensify the emotions during a ritual will contribute to its success.
Any drawing, painting, sculpture, writing, photograph, article of clothing, scent, sound,
music, tableau, or contrived situation that can be incorporated into the ceremony will serve
the sorcerer well.
Imagery is a constant reminder, an intellect-saving device, a working substitute for the real
thing. Imagery can be manipulated, set up, modified, and created, all according to the will of
the magician, and the very blueprint that is created by imagery becomes the formula which
leads to reality.
If you wish to enjoy sexual pleasures with the one of your choice, you must create the
situation you desire on paper, canvas, by the written word, etc., in as overstated a way as
possible, as an integral part of the ceremony.
If you have material desires, you must gaze upon images of them - surround yourself with the
smells and sounds conducive to them - create a lodestone which will attract the situation or
thing that you wish!
To insure the destruction of an enemy, you must destroy them by proxy! They must be shot,
stabbed, sickened, burned, smashed, drowned, or rent in the most vividly convincing manner!
It is easy to see why the religions of the right-hand path frown upon the creation of "graven
images". The imagery used by the sorcerer is a working mechanism for material reality, which
is totally opposed to esoteric spirituality.
A Greek gentleman of magical persuasion once wanted a woman who would satisfy his every
desire, and so obsessed with the unfound object of his dreams was he, that he went about
constructing such a wonderful creature. His work completed, he fell so convincingly and
irrevocably in love with the woman he had created that she was no longer stone, but mortal
flesh, and alive and warm; and so the magus, Pygmalion, received the greatest of magical
benedictions, and the beautiful Galatea was his.

[Alan]

Who is repressing other religions here? Just another fable you just made up LG. Its you and your cronies that make life difficult on this forum for christian forumites wanting to discuss their religion here, now who is doing the repressing or are the oppressors now? Think man, think. If you can without using the conspiracy part of your brain. :D

All the respect I had for your views is just dwindling in the air, not that it matters, as I realise the biggest whiners here for tolerance is actually the worst culprits.

They'll tolerate Chtistians but with a large dose of intimidation while continuously barraging them with insults.



I didn't think anything was thinly veiled :D

There is a very vocal and large atheist section in this forum so I don't think happy religious discussions will ever really occur here.

I am more interested in discussing satanism though, I find it a fascinating religion.

Hahaha

No doubt you'll go out of your way to make sure that can't happen. I'd bet you'd find a large religious section on this forum too. They just don't mouth off as much you do. Dare I say they are more tolerant.

Why is that? Because it just happens to rub christians the wrong way. Do any other religions fascinate you or is it only these two that you obsess about.

So why do you have this big problem with Christians(haven't seen you rant about any other religion).

[LoneGunman]

THE INGREDIENTS USED IN THE PERFORMANCE OF SATANIC MAGIC
D. Direction
ONE of the most overlooked ingredients in the working of magic is the accumulation
and subsequent direction of force toward an effective end.
Altogether too many would-be witches and warlocks will perform a ritual, and then go
about with tremendous anxiety waiting for the first sign of a successful working. For
all intent and purpose, they might as well get down on their knees and pray, for their
very anxiety in waiting for the desired results only nullifies any real chance of success.
Furthermore, with this attitude, it is doubtful that enough concentrated energy to even
perform a proper ceremony could be stored up in the first place.
To dwell upon or constantly complain about the situation upon which your ritual would be
based only guarantees the weakening of what should be ritualistically directed force, by
spreading it thin and diluting it. Once the desire has been established strongly enough to
employ the forces of magic, then every attempt must be made to symbolically give vent to
these wishes IN THE PERFORMANCE OF THE RITUAL - NOT before or after!
The purpose of the ritual is to FREE the magician from thoughts that would consume him, were
he to dwell upon them constantly. Contemplation, daydreaming and constant scheming burns
up emotional energy that could be gathered together in a dynamically usable force; not to
mention the fact that normal productivity is severely depleted by such consuming anxiety.
The witch who casts her spells between long waits by the telephone, anticipating her wouldbe
lover's call; the destitute warlock who invokes Satan's blessing, then waits on pins and
needles for the check to arrive; the man, saddened by the injustices wrought upon him, who,
having cursed his enemy, plods his way, long of face, and forrowed of brow - all are common
examples of misdirected emotional energy.
Small wonder that the "white" magician fears retribution after casting an "evil" spell!
Retribution, to the guilt-ridden sender, would be assured, by their very conscience-stricken
state!

THE INGREDIENTS USED IN THE PERFORMANCE OF SATANIC MAGIC
E. The Balance Factor
THE Balance Factor is an ingredient employed in the practice of ritual magic which
applies to the casting of lust and compassion rituals more than in the throwing of a
curse. This ingredient is a small, but extremely important one.
A complete knowledge and awareness of this factor is an ability few witches and
warlocks ever attain. This is, simply, knowing the proper type of individual and
situation to work your magic on for the easiest and best results. Knowing one's own
limitations is a rather odd bit of introspection, it would seem, for a person who should
be able to perform the impossible; but under many conditions it can make the difference
between success and failure.
If, in attempting to attain your goal through either greater or lesser magic, you find yourself
failing consistently, think about these things: Have you been the victim of a misdirected, overblown
ego which has caused you to want something or someone when the chances are
virtually non-existent? Are you a talentless, tone-deaf individual who is attempting, through
magic, to receive great acclaim for your unmusical voice? Are you a plain, glamorless witch
with oversized feet, nose, and ego, combined with an advanced case of acne, who is casting
love spells to catch a handsome young movie star? Are you a gross, lumpy, lewd-mouthed,
snaggle-toothed loafer who is desirous of a luscious young stripper? If so, you'd better learn to
use the balance factor, or else expect to fail consistently!
To be able to adjust one's wants to one's capabilities is a great talent, and too many people fail
to realize that if they are unable to attain the maximum, "a half a loaf can be better than
none". The chronic loser is always the man who, having nothing, if unable to make a million
dollars, will reject any chance to make fifty thousand with a disgruntled sneer.
One of the magician's greatest weapons is knowing himself; his talents, abilities, physical
attractions and detractions, etc., and when, where, and with whom to utilize them! The man
with nothing to offer, who approaches the man who is successful with grandiose advice and
promise of great wealth, has the alacrity of the flea climbing up the elephant's leg with the
intention of rape!
The aspiring witch who deludes herself into thinking that a powerful enough working will
always succeed, despite a magical imbalance, is forgetting one essential rule: MAGIC IS LIKE
NATURE ITSELF, AND SUCCESS IN MAGIC REQUIRES WORKING IN HARMONY WITH NATURE, NOT AGAINST IT.

THE SATANIC RITUAL
A. NOTES WHICH ARE TO BE OBSERVED BEFORE BEGINNING RITUAL
1. Person performing ritual stands facing the altar and symbol of Baphomet throughout
ritual, except when other positions are specifically indicated.
2. If possible, altar should be against west wall.
3. In rituals performed by one person the role of priest is not required. When more than
one person is involved in the ceremony, one of them must act as priest. In a private
ritual the sole performer follows the instructions for the priest.
4. Whenever the words "Shemhamforash!" and "Hail Satan!" are spoken by the person
acting as priest, the other participants will repeat the words after him. The gong is
struck following the other participants' response to "Hail Satan!"
5. Conversing (except within the context of the ceremony) and smoking are prohibited
after the bell is rung at the beginning, until after it is again rung at the end of the ritual.
6. The Book of Belial contians the principles of Satanic magic and ritual. Before
attempting the rituals in the Book of Leviathan, it is imperative that you read and
understand the complete Book of Belial. Until you have done so, no degree of success
can be expected from the thirteen steps which follow.

THE SATANIC RITUAL
B. THE THIRTEEN STEPS
(See Devices Used in a Satanic Ritual
for detailed instructions.)
1. Dress for ritual.
2. Assemble devices for ritual; light candles and shut out all outside light sources; place
parchments to right and left of the altar as indicated.
3. If a woman is used as the altar she now takes her position - head pointing south, feet
pointing north.
4. Purification of the air by ringing of the bell.
5. "Invocation to Satan" and "Infernal Names" which follow (see Book of Leviathan) are
now read aloud by priest. Participants will repeat each Infernal Name after it has been
said by priest.
6. Drink from chalice.
7. Turning counter-clockwise, the priest points with the sword to each cardinal point of
the compass and calls forth the respective Princes of Hell: Satan from the south,
Lucifer from the east, Belial from the north, and Leviathan from the west.
8. Perform benediction with the phallus (if one is used).
9. Priest reads aloud appropriate invocation for respective ceremony: Lust, Compassion,
or Destruction (see Book of Leviathan).
10. In the case of a personalized ritual this step is extremely important. Solitude is
compatible with the expressing of the most secret desires, and no attempt to "hold
back" should be made in the acting out, verbalizing, or casting of images pertaining to
your desires. It is at this step that your "blueprint" is drawn, wrapped, and sent off to
the recipient of your working.
(A)
To Summon One For Lustful Purpose Or Establish A Sexually Gratifying Situation
Leave the area of the altar and remove yourself to that place, either in the same room
or without, that will be most conducive to the working of the respective ritual. Then,
fashion whatever imagery you possibly can that will parallel in as exact a way possible
the situation towards which you strive. Remember, you have five senses to utilize, so
do not feel you must limit your imagery to one. Here are devices that may be
employed (either alone, or in any combination):
a. graphic imagery such as drawings, paintings, etc.
b. written imagery such as stories, plays, descriptions of desires and eventual
outcome of same.
c. acting out the desire in tableau or playet, either as yourself or portraying the
role of the object of your desire (transference), using any devices necessary to
intensify imagery.
d. any odors relative to the desired person or situation.
e. any sounds or background noises conducive to a strong image.
Intense sexual feeling should accompany this step of the ritual, and after sufficient
imagery is obtained, as strong an orgasm as is possible should serve as climax to this
step. This climax should be attained using any masturbatory or auto-erotic means
necessary. After orgasm is obtained, return to the location of the altar and proceed
with step #11.
(B)
To Insure Help Or Success For One Who Has Your Sympathy Or Compassion (Including Yourself)
Remain in close proximity of the altar and with as vivid a mental image as possible of
the person you wish to help (or intense self-pity), state your desire in your own terms.

[LoneGunman]

Should your emotions be genuine enough, they will be accompanied the shedding of
tears, which should be allowed to flow without restraint. After this exercise in
sentiment is completed, proceed to step #11.
(C)
To Cause The Destruction Of An Enemy
Remain in the area of the altar unless imagery is more easily obtained in another spot,
such as in the vicinity of the victim. Producing the image of the victim, proceed to
inflict the destruction upon the effigy in the manner of your choice. This can be done
in the following ways:
f. the sticking of pins or nails into a doll representing your victim; the doll may
be cloth, wax, wood, vegetable matter, etc.
g. the creation of graphic imagery depicting the method of your victim's
destruction; drawings, paintings, etc.
h. the creation of a vivid literary description of your victim's ultimate end.
i. a detailed soliloquy directed at the intended victim, describing his torments and
annihilation.
j. mutilation, injury, infliction of pain or illness by proxy using any other means
or devices desired.
Intense, calculated hatred and disdain should accompany this step of the ceremony,
and no attempt should be made to stop this step until the expended energy results in a
state of relative exhaustion on the part of the magician. When the exhastion ensues,
proceed to step #11.
11. (a) If requests are written, they are now read aloud by the priest and then burned in the
flames of the appropriate candle. "Shemhamforash!" and "Hail Satan!" is said after
each request.
11. (b) If requests are given verbally, participants (one at a time) now tell them to the
priest. He then repeats in his own words (those which are most emotionally
stimulating to him) the request. "Shemhamforash!" and "Hail Satan!" is said after each
request.
12. Appropriate Enochian Key is now read by the priest, as evidence of the participants'
allegiance to the Powers of Darkness.
13. Ringing of the bell as pollutionary, and then the words "SO IT IS DONE" are spoken by the
priest.
END OF RITUAL

[BCO]

LG, while I fully support your Satanism thread, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to say:

TLDR

Sorry

=[

[JBFRobisher]

You don't seriously expect us to read all this twaddle do you LG?

[LoneGunman]

There, that should provide useful reading to those who want it.
Interjections from silly trolls notwithstanding.

(Trolls who clearly don't like the idea that 'their' enemy is being allowed to
express themselves.)

Not me, I dont care for Satanism or Christianity - they're either side of the same coin.
But this hopefully provides some of the philosophy and background to the people the christians regard as their 'enemy'.

Now to clean up formatting, and swat the trolls aside :)

[mancombseepgood]

In other words....
There were three of them, they all went inside, that's what camping is all about!

[AntiThesis]

I sense this thread is going to spiral into spam eventually...

@LG: Why not link to it rather than posting it all? It is probably a bit much for people to sift through to look for responses. Discussion would be cool.

@newsflash: I really, really hope you're not a Christian because saying the things that you do bring us all down and exhibits the mentality of idiocy.

[NewsFlash]

So what you're saying is that anything which might be vaguely offensive to Christians should not be allowed because it's not very tolerant? Did you ever think that Christianity might be offensive to Satanists, therefore you should refrain from posting anything Christian because it's not tolerant towards Satanists. The argument works both ways.

The world doesn't revolve around Christianity anymore, everybody's belief system is held with equally high regard - no single faith is more important than another.

I HAVE SEEN NO THREADS WITH AS MUCH BLAPHEMY AND DISRESPECT AS THIS. JUST A GOOD INDICATION WHAT HAS BECOME OF THIS FORUM AND THE SICK NATION RUNNING THIS COUNTRY. YOURE ALL SICKO'S :D BUT I NOW UNDERSTAND THE REFERENCE "a derogatory term for "infidel" or "unbeliever". WIKI.....

[Cara]

These posts are giving me eye fatigue. Any chance of getting a summary?

Ditto AntiThesis' suggestion

[Highflyer_GP]

I HAVE SEEN NO THREADS WITH AS MUCH BLAPHEMY AND DISRESPECT AS THIS. JUST A GOOD INDICATION WHAT HAS BECOME OF THIS FORUM AND THE SICK NATION RUNNING THIS COUNTRY. YOURE ALL SICKO'S :D BUT I NOW UNDERSTAND THE REFERENCE "a derogatory term for "infidel" or "unbeliever". WIKI.

Yeah when you guys complain about Satan, you're blaspheming against the Satanists' "God". But now since they have equal rights as Christians via the constitution, it's ticking you off somewhat isn't it?

[mancombseepgood]

There, that should provide useful reading to those who want it.
Interjections from silly trolls notwithstanding.

(Trolls who clearly don't like the idea that 'their' enemy is being allowed to
express themselves.)

Not me, I dont care for Satanism or Christianity - they're either side of the same coin.
But this hopefully provides some of the philosophy and background to the people the christians regard as their 'enemy'.

Now to clean up formatting, and swat the trolls aside :)

Lol LG - I proudly troll your drivel

[BCO]

What make it drivel, Piesang? The fact that you don't agree with it?

[NewsFlash]

I sense this thread is going to spiral into spam eventually...

@LG: Why not link to it rather than posting it all? It is probably a bit much for people to sift through to look for responses. Discussion would be cool.

@newsflash: I really, really hope you're not a Christian because saying the things that you do bring us all down and exhibits the mentality of idiocy.

SO WHAT WOULD THE MUSLIMS THINK OF THIS. iI HOPE YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN CONDONING THIS. SEE IT IN THE LIGHT HE AND OTHERS DID TO DOUW DOUW

[mancombseepgood]

Lol - a 4 page thread and you expect us to believe this?

Not me, I dont care for Satanism or Christianity - they're either side of the same coin.

[mancombseepgood]

What make it drivel, Piesang? The fact that you don't agree with it?

No, the fact that he is posting for the sake of it... his intentions are in there somewhere when he spoke for himself...

Not me, I dont care for Satanism or Christianity - they're either side of the same coin.

[AntiThesis]

Oh excellent. You're using douwdouw as a reference. At least douwdouw had the common decency to not post something like this:

BUT I NOW UNDERSTAND THE REFERENCE "a derogatory term for "infidel" or "unbeliever". WIKI.....

Do you know why Christians are seen as intolerant to anything besides their own religion? It's because of rabid fundamentalists foaming at the mouth every time something even vaguely contradictory is mentioned. It doesn't do anything to forward the cause of Christianity and it certainly doesn't help to foster debate.

I know I don't seem particularly tolerant at the moment but I've found a solution (Christianity) that works for me and helps me. It angers me to see other "Christians" blindly causing damage to something I love.

[BCO]

Newsflash, I hope that Antithesis IS a Christian condoning this, and consequently showing that there ARE Christians out there who are at least willing to take a look at the other side. It doesn't make him a bad christian, just an intelligent one.

[JBFRobisher]

I HAVE SEEN NO THREADS WITH AS MUCH BLAPHEMY AND DISRESPECT AS THIS. JUST A GOOD INDICATION WHAT HAS BECOME OF THIS FORUM AND THE SICK NATION RUNNING THIS COUNTRY. YOURE ALL SICKO'S :D BUT I NOW UNDERSTAND THE REFERENCE "a derogatory term for "infidel" or "unbeliever". WIKI.....

/Frobisher institutes a fatwa on Newsflash!

[Highflyer_GP]

Lol - a 4 page thread and you expect us to believe this?
Not me, I dont care for Satanism or Christianity - they're either side of the same coin.

Why not? I agree with that - I don't care for them either. However it's a great way of testing exactly how (in)tolerant some Christians can be (*cough* Newsflash *cough*). Satanists have had to tolerate Christians, why can't Christians tolerate Satanists?

[GavinMannion]

I HAVE SEEN NO THREADS WITH AS MUCH BLAPHEMY AND DISRESPECT AS THIS. JUST A GOOD INDICATION WHAT HAS BECOME OF THIS FORUM AND THE SICK NATION RUNNING THIS COUNTRY. YOURE ALL SICKO'S :D BUT I NOW UNDERSTAND THE REFERENCE "a derogatory term for "infidel" or "unbeliever". WIKI.....

Wow I never knew we had a different nation running this country. I need to check News24 more often obviously.

Oh and I personally take offense to your insinuation with your statement about infidels and unbelievers.

Personally I agree with many of the points in the Satanists bible and I wonder if the world maybe would work better if more people followed satans supposed teachings instead of *****?

[NewsFlash]

Newsflash, I hope that Antithesis IS a Christian condoning this, and consequently showing that there ARE Christians out there who are at least willing to take a look at the other side. It doesn't make him a bad christian, just an intelligent one.

LIKE YOUR INTELEGENCE DEFYS LOGIC. HE WAS NOT DOING IT TO OPEN A DISCUSSION BUT TO ANTAGONISE CHRISTIANS ON THIS FORUM HE AND HIS SICK CRONIES WAS DOING IT FOR WEEKS NOW. READ DOUW DOUWS THREADS AND SEE WHERE THIS COME FROM.

[rwenzori]

What make it drivel, Piesang? The fact that you don't agree with it?

No god exists, no devil exists, ergo it are drivel, to put it in my best seffrican exent.

[rwenzori]

LIKE YOUR INTELEGENCE DEFYS LOGIC. HE WAS NOT DOING IT TO OPEN A DISCUSSION BUT TO ANTAGONISE CHRISTIANS ON THIS FORUM HE AND HIS SICK CRONIES WAS DOING IT FOR WEEKS NOW. READ DOUW DOUWS THREADS AND SEE WHERE THIS COME FROM.

No need to shout now.

[NewsFlash]

Wow I never knew we had a different nation running this country. I need to check News24 more often obviously.

Oh and I personally take offense to your insinuation with your statement about infidels and unbelievers.

Personally I agree with many of the points in the Satanists bible and I wonder if the world maybe would work better if more people followed satans supposed teachings instead of *****?

FINE WE ALL SEE WHO GROUPS HERE AND WE TAKE NOTICE WHO IS THE SATANISTS. LOOK WAHT THE WORLD IS BECOMING AND ASK YOURSELF WHY?

[GavinMannion]

LIKE YOUR INTELEGENCE DEFYS LOGIC. HE WAS NOT DOING IT TO OPEN A DISCUSSION BUT TO ANTAGONISE CHRISTIANS ON THIS FORUM HE AND HIS SICK CRONIES WAS DOING IT FOR WEEKS NOW. READ DOUW DOUWS THREADS AND SEE WHERE THIS COME FROM.

Never a good sign spelling intelligence wrong :rolleyes:

Anyway why are you posting in capitals, do you not know that it is considered rude on online forums to post in all caps?

Now breath more, read what people post and respond to points accordingly. We might get somewhere.

[mancombseepgood]

Do you know why Christians are seen as intolerant to anything besides their own religion? It's because of rabid fundamentalists foaming at the mouth every time something even vaguely contradictory is mentioned
Aah... tolerance personified...

[GamerGirl]

FINE WE ALL SEE WHO GROUPS HERE AND WE TAKE NOTICE WHO IS THE SATANISTS. LOOK WAHT THE WORLD IS BECOMING AND ASK YOURSELF WHY?

run QUICK the satanists are coming... runnnnn to the hills!!!!!

*Anti can stay, he's intelligent :D and he can braai around our fires of hell... and have a beer or two when we discuss rugby and such

[GavinMannion]

FINE WE ALL SEE WHO GROUPS HERE AND WE TAKE NOTICE WHO IS THE SATANISTS. LOOK WAHT THE WORLD IS BECOMING AND ASK YOURSELF WHY?

Just to clear up an obvious misconception. I am an atheist not a satanist.

I think satanism might have more to offer the world than christianity but if I had my way I would prefer no religion at all.

The world is looking great to me,

[NewsFlash]

Never a good sign spelling intelligence wrong :rolleyes:

Anyway why are you posting in capitals, do you not know that it is considered rude on online forums to post in all caps?

Now breath more, read what people post and respond to points accordingly. We might get somewhere.

GET WHO WHERE, THIS WHOLE THREAD IS DRIVEL POSTED WITH AN SPECIFIC AGENDA. KIDDY LG IS UPSET BECAUSE THE CHRISTIANS MAKE HIM FEEL GUILTY AND LEFT OUT.

[NewsFlash]

The world is looking great to me,

FROM AFRICAS EYES, THAT IS USED TO NOTHING, I WOULD PRESUME IT LOOKS GREAT. ALL IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER

[AntiThesis]

Bah. Will post later. Home time for now.

[GavinMannion]

GET WHO WHERE, THIS WHOLE THREAD IS DRIVEL POSTED WITH AN SPECIFIC AGENDA. KIDDY LG IS UPSET BECAUSE THE CHRISTIANS MAKE HIM FEEL GUILTY AND LEFT OUT.

:confused: :confused:

Ummm okay then.... Here have a nice green pill and go sit in the corner so the rest of us can actually talk about it

[GavinMannion]

FROM AFRICAS EYES, THAT IS USED TO NOTHING, I WOULD PRESUME IT LOOKS GREAT. ALL IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER

is that beholder or beerholder?

Anyway I actually chose to live here instead of the supposed 1st world EU. So yeah maybe it is in the beholder but at least I have the experience to make an informed opinion.

Again, please stop posting only in caps it sends the FF spellchecker nuts :D

[NewsFlash]

is that beholder or beerholder?

Anyway I actually chose to live here instead of the supposed 1st world EU. So yeah maybe it is in the beholder but at least I have the experience to make an informed opinion.

Again, please stop posting only in caps it sends the FF spellchecker nuts :D

Now will become BEERHOLDER. Ok, sorry. LG had my nuts in a twist :eek: Which spellchecker? I use Google but I was informed it is not one? Wheres that beer.

[LoneGunman]

finished making the text look slightly more pretty :P (putting things in bold when they should be) - good grief, folks are intolerant.

For me the Anton LaVey form of Satanism is intellectually interesting, given that its a seriously 'selfish' philosophical approach - as well as being a very 'conscious' attitude. (you care for those you 'choose' to care for) Naturally, judging from the squeals of horror from the intolerant - this isn't the view of 'satanism' that all christians might like. And its certainly not the form of 'satanism' that many mentally damaged ex-christian kiddies practise.
After all, if you've been raised outside of faith, you're not really likely to become either a christian or a satanist - as both appear equally absurd from the outside.
Still, different strokes for different folks - and as I'm very interested in theology, I thought it would be fun to provide a batch of reading from a fairly intelligent 'satanic' viewpoint.

anyway. Hope it provides interesting reading, for those curious about a formalized philosophy attached to what christianity generally percieves as its eternal enemy.

[NewsFlash]

- good grief, folks are intolerant.
Like you and the cronies were with Douw Douw and others?

[GamerGirl]

LG

I'm a pagan. I appreciate your attempt to make a controversial opposite to Christianity, but I feel you may have provided just a TAD too much info...

here is the best summary I could find:

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

by Anton Szandor LaVey ©196



1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

[GavinMannion]

Now will become BEERHOLDER. Ok, sorry. LG had my nuts in a twist :eek: Which spellchecker? I use Google but I was informed it is not one? Wheres that beer.

Just the normal FireFox one....

Anyway back to the point. (The beer is in the mail :D)

I have always thought that the idea of Satan being pure evil just does not hold water. If he was that evil why would god allow him to survive?

I see satan more as god's competition. The same way that M$ make Linux guys sound evil and the Iraqi's call GWB the great satan.

Everyone wants an enemy even if one does not really exist. Are they both not two valid options who both have the best of mankind at heart?

(Again all of this is based on believing in the first place)
Shall we agree to keep the discussion on whether religion is idiotic or not in another discussion?

[Random717]

From experience I found LaVey's Satanism to be perfectly designed for those disillusioned with Christianity in general. It had me hooked for a few days till I realised it was just another religion, and as I wasn't afraid to question the existence of God or the verity of the bible I started questioning it along with all religion. That was ages ago, full blown atheist now :D

[Leitmotif]

News: please stop posting in caps, and start arguing the topic rather than the thread or posters.

Satanism as presented by this 'bible' may do a lot to update the straitlaced conventions and the moral crises faced by people of our time...

[Cara]

LG

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.


I thought Satanists sacrificed animals and children :confused:

Thanks for highlighting the important bits LG :)

[GavinMannion]

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Out of 11 there is only 1 I disagree with, as much as I would love to treat my mother-in-law cruelly I don't think the wife would take to it so well :D

The rest are very good.

[arf9999]

Now will become BEERHOLDER. Ok, sorry. LG had my nuts in a twist :eek: Which spellchecker? I use Google but I was informed it is not one? Wheres that beer.

damn! I thought pupa was melting down again...

[LoneGunman]

(I posted this in forum gripes, but I'm reposting it here - so that folks 'get' where I'm coming from)

-
my reasons for posting the satanic bible excerpts are fairly straightforward, no hidden agenda's..

1. Its interesting as hell (no pun intended) to hear the 'official' enemy of christianity, put their view across in an intelligent and coherent way.
2. It provides those on the outside of the loosely speaking 'god versus devil' paradigm, to get a good solid dose of the devil's attitude/philosophy in action.
3. It irritates those who'd rather supress what they see as 'their enemy' from saying anything at all.
4. It gives a clearer picture of the various theological debates raging on forum, whereas at the moment, it appears to be divided between athiests, agnostics, decent christians (ie: those who'll debate with compassion), and 'the intolerant' of each of these categories.

The real voice of the supposed 'enemy' of christianity, hasnt been heard at all, instead, folks have been treating athiests and agnostics as if THEY were the real enemy.

So I thought let me provide some space and time for those in and out of the debate, to hear the voice of the direct opposition to christianity, and then let the cards fall where they may..

/rant off
/kettle on :)

[GavinMannion]

damn! I thought pupa was melting down again...

sshhhh it's a secret

[Alan]

Do you know why Christians are seen as intolerant to anything besides their own religion? It's because of rabid fundamentalists foaming at the mouth every time something even vaguely contradictory is mentioned.

I know I don't seem particularly tolerant at the moment but I've found a solution (Christianity) that works for me and helps me. It angers me to see other "Christians" blindly causing damage to something I love.

Yeah, the Atheist fundamentalists on this forum are giving atheists a bad name with their foaming at the mouth every time something even vaguely contradictory is mentioned.



Newsflash, I hope that Antithesis IS a Christian condoning this, and consequently showing that there ARE Christians out there who are at least willing to take a look at the other side. It doesn't make him a bad christian, just an intelligent one.

Most Christians do look at the otherside. They chose to follow Christianity which you lot seem to have a problem with. Are they really that stupid to become Christian or am I not as enlightend as I think I am.



Why not? I agree with that - I don't care for them either. However it's a great way of testing exactly how (in)tolerant some Christians can be (*cough* Newsflash *cough*). Satanists have had to tolerate Christians, why can't Christians tolerate Satanists?

Why can't Atheists tolerate any religion?


Never a good sign spelling intelligence wrong :rolleyes:

Anyway why are you posting in capitals, do you not know that it is considered rude on online forums to post in all caps?

Now breath more, read what people post and respond to points accordingly. We might get somewhere.

That's never stoped you before.


Just to clear up an obvious misconception. I am an atheist not a satanist.

I think satanism might have more to offer the world than christianity but if I had my way I would prefer no religion at all.

The world is looking great to me,

What planet do you live on?


Well LG has got what he wanted. The pack are here and they got Newsflash as the isolated prey. Some things never change.

[nthdimension]

Most Christians do look at the otherside.
How many were not fed religion of some kind from birth?


Why can't Atheists tolerate any religion?
They do tolerate them. Alternatively they could have them all put to the sword.


What planet do you live on?
Earth. Come visit sometime.

[arf9999]

Most Christians do look at the otherside. They chose to follow Christianity which were you lot seem to have a problem. Are they really that stupid to become Christian or am I not as enlightend as I think I am.

:D
no comment

[Alan]

How many were not fed religion of some kind from birth?


They do tolerate them. Alternatively they could have them all put to the sword.


Earth. Come visit sometime.

Here we go again. So in the age of globalisation these people aren't exposed to other ideas. Atleast that gets you out of this "are they all really that stupid and I'm I really that enlightened" problem doesn't it. They are all brainwashed:eek: . That clears everything up.

Not the ones on this forum. Bwahahahahah "put them to the sword" Bwahahaha :D

Oh that is soooooooo clever :rolleyes:

[fivelza]

Well at least the satanists believe in God without the need for scientific proof of God's existence :p

[AntiThesis]

The pack are here and they got Newsflash as the isolated prey.

You seem to have this concept of LG sitting behind his keyboard cackling madly going "Come my pretties! Fall into my topic trap. Muahahahahaha!"

Perhaps this is the case but I'm betting it was more "I think people would be interested in this. Let me post it." I do believe he coulda just linked to the relevant exerpts rather than C&P as putting it verbatim makes no difference. Some people will choose to read it and consider and some people will gloss over it.

Anyhoo... Satanism as it is represented here is quiet an interesting look into a more selfish thought pattern as someone said. I've met some of the other people who claim to be Satanists (the kind who slaughter cats etc) and they're not only very delusional but kinda silly.

[ghoti]

LGM: A link to all of this would have been sufficient.


Yeah, the Atheist fundamentalists on this forum are giving atheists a bad name with their foaming at the mouth every time something even vaguely contradictory is mentioned.

No, I think its everytime a half truth or miss representation of the truth happens.


Are they really that stupid to become Christian or am I not as enlightend as I think I am.

No comment :D


Why can't Atheists tolerate any religion?

They can, you are still here. They dont tolerate indoctrination and half truths.


Well LG has got what he wanted. The pack are here and they got Newsflash as the isolated prey. Some things never change.

No, Newsflash made stupid comments. He was his own enemy.

I have noticed two good people here who are both Christians, post in this thread. They made sensible posts, and such, their posts were read with a greater understanding by the readers. They both also understand the concept of tolerance and free speech, even if they did not like or approve of what was being written.

Lastly, all the satanists that I have come across, where either really stupid idiots, or lunatic eccentrics. If you are going to believe the biblical God and Satan routing, to pick the loosing side shows either gross stupidity of an intense S&M streak you should consult a shrink about.

[Highflyer_GP]

Why can't Atheists tolerate any religion?

If you need me to answer that, then you obviously have no clue about how religion has more potential to do harm than good. Regardless, I never once saw an Atheist on this forum act in an intolerant manner - all they do is question in an attempt to find answers as to why people believe the things they do. If that's considered intolerant by religious folk, then I'm afraid to say that they're a seriously deluded bunch. It's not like Atheists call religious folk *******s or anything (which would be intolerant), but rather ask questions in order to better understand where they're coming from. Well that's from my perspective at least.

[mancombseepgood]

How many were not fed religion of some kind from birth?
Speak for yourself... certainly not I.
I was brought up in a home where dad was agnostic, mom tried it all - mostly new age religious stuff...
I made my own decision later in life...

[mancombseepgood]

Regardless, I never once saw an Atheist on this forum act in an intolerant manner - all they do is question in an attempt to find answers as to why people believe the things they do.
I have hardly seen any tolerance from professing atheists... they refuse to accept a person's word that they believe because God told them... I mean - 'I don't hear from God, why should anyone else...' (usually peppered with sarcasm and ridicule). Before anyone gets into the whole debate about why do some hear and others not, ask yourself if you like your life and your belief system the way it is...

[GamerGirl]

I have hardly seen any tolerance from professing atheists... they refuse to accept a person's word that they believe because God told them... I mean - 'I don't hear from God, why should anyone else...' (usually peppered with sarcasm and ridicule). Before anyone gets into the whole debate about why do some hear and others not, ask yourself if you like your life and your belief system the way it is...

yes.
and I wholeheartedly agree that tolerance is acceptance, and its a 2-way street.

[dablakmark8]

why believe in satan when longunner is satan himself,common thoughts lead to mo probs,give it a rest now please

[mancombseepgood]

If you need me to answer that, then you obviously have no clue about how religion has more potential to do harm than good.

I won't dispute that - you get religion and religion...
If I may quote from the Bible - `you will know them by their fruits' - and "Not everyone who says to me `Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who do the will of my Father"

I am curious as to what the Ghandi connection is... since he was a religious man.

[texo]

yes.
and I wholeheartedly agree that tolerance is acceptance, and its a 2-way street.

Hi GamerGirl! Could you explain what you mean by this? I certainly don't agree that to tolerate something is to accept it... or have I misunderstood you?

[mancombseepgood]

What I do find fascinating from what LG posted... it seems the Satanic Bible exists exclusively to oppose Christianity...
There is hardly an original thread in there...

[GamerGirl]

Hi GamerGirl! Could you explain what you mean by this? I certainly don't agree that to tolerate something is to accept it... or have I misunderstood you?

In my beliefs, I accept that other people have different ways of living their lives to me. That to me is tolerance... whether I agree with or disagree with what they do, I tolerate. I don't wish to change/alter/conform/reform/whatever their behaviour. In my opinion, I accept/tolerate all behaviour.

the ONLY exception is where it's non-consensual behaviour forced on another person (so think of every 'bad' thing that humans do to each other) and that is where I believe our laws should be based. Not on religion, but on basic human interaction and the effects of that.

[Debbie]

Thanks LG, even though I didn't read it all.

ROFL@ thread title.

It's interesting to read about religions and philosophies and ideologies that are different to one's prevailing beliefs. It's a great way to probe why you believe what you believe.

[Debbie]

I am curious as to what the Ghandi connection is... since he was a religious man.

Technically, Satanists too are religious.

What religion do you claim Gandhi was? As far as I am aware, he was, by his own words, 'a hindu, a christian and a buddist'....or something to that effect....

[nocilah]

In my beliefs, I accept that other people have different ways of living their lives to me. That to me is tolerance... whether I agree with or disagree with what they do, I tolerate. I don't wish to change/alter/conform/reform/whatever their behaviour. In my opinion, I accept/tolerate all behaviour..

you are actually a liar. because you were not very tolerant of some opinions in another thread.

actually a lot of the atheists who have now adopted this self righteous attitude of ooh ooh i am so tolerate are lying through their teeth and the same goes for most of the religious folk here.

i am not religious nor i am an atheist and i am far from perfect, but please can you fools drop your holier then though attitude and plz stop spewing this utter bull**** about how tolerant you are.

because you are not.

[GamerGirl]

cool np... :D

hehe

[mancombseepgood]

Technically, Satanists too are religious.

What religion do you claim Gandhi was? As far as I am aware, he was, by his own words, 'a hindu, a christian and a buddist'....or something to that effect....

I wasn't specific, but what do you think?

[Nokkie]

Seeing as this is a democracy, and there's been a lot of whiney christians on forum, putting their view - I thought it only fair, that someone place online a direct opposing view to these christians. And no, 'athiesm' is not an opposing view - 'satanism' is.
(Of course, if you've been raised outside of religion, then satanism is just as stupid as christianity. And almost all satanists are ex-christians.)

So in the interests of expanding peoples minds, I'm placing large chunks of The Satanic Bible online, so that the christians can meet their worst nightmare, namely - 'the opposing team'
And people can read, and see which makes more sense. It's also pretty cool writing, once it gets going, bring an attitude that perhaps is needed - and who better to attack christian belief, than their diabolical eternal enemies..the followers of 'the other guy' And nope, I'm neither christian nor satanist, just a believer in the idea that all sides should get a hearing..

For unknown reasons, the entire cut n pasted text, and thread has been deleted.

Evidently some christians don't seem to like the idea of democratically hearing both sides of an argument..

I'll cut n paste my own brief summary as posted in the thread:

"note that christians live in a closed universe - made of the simple concept of a Being that made everything.. and that Being's Enemy satan/devil/whatever)
in the christian closed universe - their direct enemy are 'the opposing forces' of Lucifer/satan..
There is nothing beyond this paradigm, for christianity.
I dont believe in either.

But, as I said - I thought it would be delicious to have a cheerful tongue-in-cheek total Satanist's point of view.. as opposed to the long suffering athiests who have to do battle with people who exist in a reality where there's just 'good' and 'evil'. No room for inbetween.
In the interests of fair play and good debate, and as source material - I thought it'd be lovely to let so-called 'Evil' have some space to put its point of view." :)

The disappearance of a well thought out, reasoned argument, explaining the position from the 'enemy point of view' of the christians - is a sad indication of the closed minds of the allegedly 'religious'.

If the entire thread was removed because of the thread heading. ('satanism is good for you') then this demonstrates further, the willingness of the allegedly religious, to clamp down, and censor any viewpoint other than its own, despite claims to the contrary.


if you say you don't believe in either the two parties christian/satin then why do you wan't to know more anyways?

[mancombseepgood]

Technically, Satanists too are religious.
Although the nuts and bolts of it is self preservation and self first - and specifically laVey Satanism (Satanic Bible author) AFAIK doesn't acknowlege anything but the physical world...

Defenition of religion would be interesting...
I believe in God and Christ but don't consider myself religious... whether others do or not...

[Highflyer_GP]

I have hardly seen any tolerance from professing atheists... they refuse to accept a person's word that they believe because God told them... I mean - 'I don't hear from God, why should anyone else...' (usually peppered with sarcasm and ridicule). Before anyone gets into the whole debate about why do some hear and others not, ask yourself if you like your life and your belief system the way it is...

Perhaps you're confusing tolerance with approval. To tolerate doesn't mean that one has to agree, but to peacefully coexist.

[Nokkie]

Although the nuts and bolts of it is self preservation and self first - and specifically laVey Satanism (Satanic Bible author) AFAIK doesn't acknowlege anything but the physical world...

Defenition of religion would be interesting...
I believe in God and Christ but don't consider myself religious... whether others do or not...

thats the same how i look at it to...

[mancombseepgood]

Perhaps you're confusing tolerance with approval. To tolerate doesn't mean that one has to agree, but to peacefully coexist.

I'm not sure what gives you that idea, but I think peace has been absent from both sides of the religious debates...
Do you disagree?
Seriaaaasly?

[LoneGunman]

"if you say you don't believe in either the two parties christian/satin then why do you wan't to know more anyways?"

If I understand your logic - you're saying: 'because I dont believe in either of the belief systems - therefore I shouldn't want to know anything about them'.
(And by inference - therefore, I'm kind of weird because I'm interested in things I don't have any belief in). Is that what you're saying and meaning?

- Or did you mean something different? :P

Perhaps you were suggesting that because I have no belief in either of the two things, I therefore should keep quiet, keep my intellectual curiosity to myself, and leave all discussions on these topics, to people who 'believe' in one or the other..

EDIT: Nicely put Highflyer - re tolerance being about peacefully co-existing. That's also the essence of democracy - folks learning to co-exist with people who have beliefs or views that they find horrible. I think SA still has a way to go, in terms of learning to shrug off whoever one thinks is crazy/disgusting - and simply get on with ones own life. Someone hating or worshipping whatever, has no actual impact on ones own course in life.
Its that same thing about the most homophobic folks are often those who are most fearful about their own sexuality. Everyone else just shrugs and lets people 'be' whatever they are, without vitriol and hate.

[Highflyer_GP]

I'm not sure what gives you that idea, but I think peace has been absent from both sides of the religious debates...
Do you disagree?
Seriaaaasly?

To be honest, the only person who I've seen mocked was dodo (and rightly so IMO) due to him being deliberately stubborn in refusing to answer peoples questions, but rather change the topic to something else altogether. And if somebody like Newsflash (pupa) acts in the immature manner that he displayed in this thread, can you honestly say that he's not asking for a backlash? If you have a look, you would see that people who partake in an intelligent, non-offensive and decent manner are rightly shown the same sort of treatment. Indeed it is a two-way street - however if one wants people to be tolerant of them, they also have to be tolerant towards others.

[GamerGirl]

you are actually a liar. because you were not very tolerant of some opinions in another thread.

actually a lot of the atheists who have now adopted this self righteous attitude of ooh ooh i am so tolerate are lying through their teeth and the same goes for most of the religious folk here.

i am not religious nor i am an atheist and i am far from perfect, but please can you fools drop your holier then though attitude and plz stop spewing this utter bull**** about how tolerant you are.

because you are not.

actually... please tell me where i have displayed non-tolerance under my understanding/belief of tolerance: In my beliefs, I accept that other people have different ways of living their lives to me. That to me is tolerance... whether I agree with or disagree with what they do, I tolerate. I don't wish to change/alter/conform/reform/whatever their behaviour. In my opinion, I accept/tolerate all behaviour..

I haven't tried to tell anyone who calls themselves any religion/political/sexual persuasion to MY way of thinking? Nor have I said that they SHOULDN'T believe what they do believe. All I have displayed is my own disagreement to what they believe... which is not non-tolerance (yes, non-tolerance, not intolerance!!)

[icyrus]

Yeah, the Atheist fundamentalists on this forum are giving atheists a bad name with their foaming at the mouth every time something even vaguely contradictory is mentioned.

fun·da·men·tal·ism (fŭn'də-měn'tl-ĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
2.
1. often Fundamentalism An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th century in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture.
2. Adherence to the theology of this movement.

Now that we have cleared that up, care to link to some of the instances of atheists "foaming at the mouth"?


I have hardly seen any tolerance from professing atheists... they refuse to accept a person's word that they believe because God told them... I mean - 'I don't hear from God, why should anyone else...' (usually peppered with sarcasm and ridicule). Before anyone gets into the whole debate about why do some hear and others not, ask yourself if you like your life and your belief system the way it is...

How would you react to someone who tells you that they hear voices and truly believe santa is speaking to them and telling then his will?

[nocilah]

actually... please tell me where i have displayed non-tolerance under my understanding/belief of tolerance: In my beliefs, I accept that other people have different ways of living their lives to me. That to me is tolerance... whether I agree with or disagree with what they do, I tolerate. I don't wish to change/alter/conform/reform/whatever their behaviour. In my opinion, I accept/tolerate all behaviour..

I haven't tried to tell anyone who calls themselves any religion/political/sexual persuasion to MY way of thinking? Nor have I said that they SHOULDN'T believe what they do believe. All I have displayed is my own disagreement to what they believe... which is not non-tolerance (yes, non-tolerance, not intolerance!!)

agreed. non-tolerance is not tolerant. but here is a great snippet.


I cant wait for your Lord, and the Lord of alllllll the other religions too come down and take away the 'saved' ones' off to wherever you all want to reside in the afterlife. I quite like planet earth and I think I will be very happy to reside here with all the other non-believers.

and... i dont think you are any worse then anyone else. so plz dont get offended. no one is tolerant - hence we are all on a forum that primarily deals with how we will NOT tolerate Telkoms crap :)

[GamerGirl]

OK granted, I can see what you're saying... humble apologies... really I do :D

but with tone missing in text you may have missed my sarcasm ...

also you didn't post my whole answer...

Originally Posted by GamerGirl View Post
teraside, pls don't get your knickers in a knot...

I dont wish to persecute you or any of the other religious fanatics on the planet. But there are so many of you with all your different religions and different sects in your religions, I don't know what laws should or shouldn't be put in place.

So how bout we create some laws that aren't based on religion, and then at least we can have a basic set of rules that keeps the majority happy?

I cant wait for your Lord, and the Lord of alllllll the other religions too come down and take away the 'saved' ones' off to wherever you all want to reside in the afterlife. I quite like planet earth and I think I will be very happy to reside here with all the other non-believers.

[Debbie]

I wasn't specific, but what do you think?

I would guess that Gandhi was a man who believed that there are many paths to enlightenment. I would guess that he perceived what he believed to be similar core truth/s existing across numerous religious beliefs. I would guess that Gandhi interpreted different religions simply as different - and somewhat fallible- cultural expressions of universal truth.


Although the nuts and bolts of it is self preservation and self first - and specifically laVey Satanism (Satanic Bible author) AFAIK doesn't acknowlege anything but the physical world...

Defenition of religion would be interesting...
I believe in God and Christ but don't consider myself religious... whether others do or not...

What, you mean to say you didn't click my signature when I had the link to wiki's definition of 'religion'? Ok then, here it is again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

It is a word without strict defintion, it seems.

[AntiThesis]

That's also the essence of an ideal democracy

FTFY.

I say this because what is called democracy is not neccesarily so.

I happen to like my religion and I beleive completely in it so meh. If someone told me Santa was speaking to them I might well think they were mad but I guess that's something I'll have to deal with if it ever comes up :)

[LoneGunman]

by 'SANTA' you mean 'SATAN' ? Was that a typo? :P

[icyrus]

by 'SANTA' you mean 'SATAN' ? Was that a typo? :P

I believe he was referring to my post:


How would you react to someone who tells you that they hear voices and truly believe santa is speaking to them and telling then his will?

[AntiThesis]

What icyrus said :D

You should know I'm infallible by now LG :)

[LoneGunman]

I know, I was just being a troll :P I guess I'm no good at it..
*phones douwdouw*
"How exactly do you get people to bother posting in reaction to you so much?"
"I pretend to misunderstand them, which manipulates them into responding"
"Aaah, I see"
:)

[NewsFlash]

(I posted this in forum gripes, but I'm reposting it here - so that folks 'get' where I'm coming from)

-
my reasons for posting the satanic bible excerpts are fairly straightforward, no hidden agenda's..

1. Its interesting as hell (no pun intended) to hear the 'official' enemy of Christianity, put their view across in an intelligent and coherent way.
2. It provides those on the outside of the loosely speaking 'god versus devil' paradigm, to get a good solid dose of the devil's attitude/philosophy in action.
3. It irritates those who'd rather suppress what they see as 'their enemy' from saying anything at all.
4. It gives a clearer picture of the various theological debates raging on forum, whereas at the moment, it appears to be divided between atheists, agnostics, decent Christians (ie: those who'll debate with compassion), and 'the intolerant' of each of these categories.

The real voice of the supposed 'enemy' of Christianity, hasn't been heard at all, instead, folks have been treating atheists and agnostics as if THEY were the real enemy.

So I thought let me provide some space and time for those in and out of the debate, to hear the voice of the direct opposition to Christianity, and then let the cards fall where they may..

/rant off
/kettle on :)

Who are you bluffing. Yourself. Look at your continuous trolling of any religious thread the past week and tell me that again. You may call yourselves what you want but you do not give the Christians the time and space they deserve as it is a thorn in your side. And you preach tolerance and free speech. The biggest problem is that I see MyADSL allowing you guys to do it with impunity, Your mockery of Christianity, not debate nor dialog.

[NewsFlash]

I know, I was just being a troll :P I guess I'm no good at it..
*phones douwdouw*
"How exactly do you get people to bother posting in reaction to you so much?"
"I pretend to misunderstand them, which manipulates them into responding"
"Aaah, I see"
:)

There you are still going at it.

[ghoti]

Your mockery of Christianity,

Nope. You are able to do that all by yourself.

[LoneGunman]

you wrote
"but you do not give the Christians the time and space they deserve "

Oh, you REALLY think that christians 'deserve' something? More wars, slaughter, holocausts, and justifications for genocide, have used the 'christian' belief and its Bible - than anything else in history. (from the Crusades, to Hitler, to Bush - all use God and christianity to justify slaughter)

Not only this, but you folks have made sunday television an abomination in my eyes :P

Thank your god that folks like you are not allowed to kill, maim and burn those who dont agree with your viewpoints, as you folks did in the past. Luckily though, not all christians are of your intolerant sort - the various threads have shown some very sensible and decent christians here on myadsl, who aren't quite as fundamentalist (and homicidal - given the chance) as you seem to be willing to be..
If you think I'm mocking your belief, then follow Jeeezus' teachings... and forgive me :P

[Debbie]

Guys can we try steer clear of insult-fests...MyAdsl has come a long way in the past few months with regard to open debate on religion, let's try not lose what we have gained.

[kingrob]

Guys can we try steer clear of insult-fests...MyAdsl has come a long way in the past few months with regard to open debate on religion, let's try not lose what we have gained.

Think the damage has already been done.

[LoneGunman]

fair enough.
NewsFlash, I forgive you. Now forgive me. Or I'll cause line noise on your ADSL :)

[AntiThesis]

Took the words right out of my mouth Debbie :)


There you are still going at it.

I found LG's post to be pretty humorous actually ^_^

Well I guess it would be good of Christians (I'll say Xians from now on. Shorter) to not lump all atheists into the same basket. At least I'd hope atheists wouldn't tar all Xians with the same "crusaders, pillage the unbeliever" brush :D

[NewsFlash]

Although the nuts and bolts of it is self preservation and self first - and specifically laVey Satanism (Satanic Bible author) AFAIK doesn't acknowlege anything but the physical world...

Definition of religion would be interesting...
I believe in God and Christ but don't consider myself religious... whether others do or not...
I am sure many more do! Not everyone can be as vigilant as Douw Douw (but at least respect him for it) or an Priest, at least all is human and doomed for failure some or other time.
I wonder how many here practise satanism ( Anyone here maiming kids and sacrificing them?) and how many condone and then agree with it. It is clear that the big drive here on this forum was to Satarize GOD, Christ and Christians and this thread was to glorify SATAN. AT least one item of truth as predicted by the profits in the bible, even the Atheists will have to agree with that one :D What the true agenda of the self proclaimed atheists is by showing their intolerance and fear of Christians, only they would know.

[NewsFlash]

fair enough.
NewsFlash, I forgive you. Now forgive me. Or I'll cause line noise on your ADSL :)

You're forgiven. :) Now just tolerate the Christian zealots and let them be. No one have to read their posts. :D

[Highflyer_GP]

Newsflash if an Atheist isn't self-proclaimed, then who else would procliam them as such? :confused:

[NewsFlash]

you wrote
"but you do not give the Christians the time and space they deserve "

Oh, you REALLY think that christians 'deserve' something? More wars, slaughter, holocausts, and justifications for genocide, have used the 'christian' belief and its Bible - than anything else in history. (from the Crusades, to Hitler, to Bush - all use God and christianity to justify slaughter)

Not only this, but you folks have made sunday television an abomination in my eyes :P

Thank your god that folks like you are not allowed to kill, maim and burn those who dont agree with your viewpoints, as you folks did in the past. Luckily though, not all christians are of your intolerant sort - the various threads have shown some very sensible and decent christians here on myadsl, who aren't quite as fundamentalist (and homicidal - given the chance) as you seem to be willing to be..
If you think I'm mocking your belief, then follow Jeeezus' teachings... and forgive me :P


I may forgive you but beware of GOD"s wrath. He will not take lightly what happened on this forum. Be warned.

[Highflyer_GP]

Afterall God spends his time reading online forums :/

rofl

[LoneGunman]

"It is clear that the big drive here on this forum was to Satarize GOD, Christ and Christians and this thread was to glorify SATAN."

Really? Look up the word 'irony'.
I think its clear that I'm wildly against religions in general, so a thread saying 'satanism is good for you' doesn't quite mean what a literal mouth-breather might assume it means :P

[ghoti]

I may forgive you but beware of GOD"s wrath. He will not take lightly what happened on this forum. Be warned.

Im sure God is big enough to tell us what he wants us to know. I dont think he needs you to tell us.

[LoneGunman]

NewsFlash - NO warning me on behalf of God, unless you have a signed letter from Him, given you permission to warn or threaten anyone else. Otherwise, you're just making it up, and we'll laugh at you, which'll upset you - and we don't want that :)

[NewsFlash]

Newsflash if an Atheist isn't self-proclaimed, then who else would procliam them as such? :confused:

My days of discussing anything with you is taboo :D Have better things to waste time on. As I said its your mind that is playing with your soul, the uncertainty, the knowledge there is nothing else. Therefore the insistance and self proclamation. You are here to procreate and die, no other reason. There is nothing for you down the line. I think that must me a heavy burden to carry for life. When you are old and sit waiting for the end, while doing nothing, I will start looking forward to a new beginning.

[LoneGunman]

I've never said there is 'nothing else'. Ditto, never said I'm here to just procreate and die..

This is the problem with a lot of believers in this closed universe of 'either God OR the devil' paradigm - it makes believers in this closed Moebius strip idea believe there's some sort of copyright on 'life hereafter', and it belongs to them only.
Thing is, at no point have I ever told you what I feel happens after death - yet you assume I think there's nothing. The universe is wider, weirder, and much stranger than the simple God->Devil concept..

Now lets make line noise on your ADSL, out of spite :P
(Im kidding, I'm kidding! :)

[nocilah]

The universe is wider, weirder, and much stranger than the simple God->Devil concept..

black - white
cold - hot
god - satan
dark - light
good - evil
ect...

that is the universe

1 and 0
ying and yang

agree - disagree.
positive - negative
awake - asleep

[NewsFlash]

I've never said there is 'nothing else'.

This is the problem with a lot of believers in this closed universe of 'either God OR the devil' paradigm - it makes believers in this closed Moebius strip idea believe there's some sort of copyright on 'life hereafter', and it belongs to them only.
Thing is, at no point have I ever told you what I feel happens after death - yet you assume I think there's nothing. The universe is wider, weirder, and much stranger than the simple God->Devil concept..

Now lets make line noise on your ADSL, out of spite :P
(Im kidding, I'm kidding! :)
I did not refer to anyone in particular. I hit a punch into this wild crowd and some starts screaming out. That's how you find some guilty ones. :D
Yeah, I am also a believer in alien life, that's part of the big scheme of things. Watch out for 2012, maybe you will be one of the chosen ones. :D

PS have you seen on Sky the blueprint of space, as determined by Hubble. Dark matter chart? Makes you think. (should rather start a new thread on it). Whats your take?

[ghoti]

black - white
cold - hot
god - satan
dark - light
good - evil
ect...

that is the universe

1 and 0
ying and yang

agree - disagree.
positive - negative
awake - asleep

There is also

cold - cold
hot - hot

etc,

Just like an electron can spin either left or right, it also has the potential to spin both directions at the same time.

[ghoti]

s. Watch out for 2012, maybe you will be one of the chosen ones. :D



Whats with this 2012 thing? Heard the date a couple of times, for the strangest reasons. What makes it strange to me, is it the same year that NASA predicts the the sun`s magnetic poles will do a polar flip.

[Highflyer_GP]

black - white
cold - hot
god - satan
dark - light
good - evil
ect...

that is the universe

1 and 0
ying and yang

agree - disagree.
positive - negative
awake - asleep
Some things are related and are not always "either or"

For example you could go east or west, but you could also go north or south. Also left right, up down
cold, hot, warm etc.

[nocilah]

Some things are related and are not always "either or"

For example you could go east or west, but you could also go north or south. Also left right, up down
cold, hot, warm etc.

but you would be moving or stationary.
alive or dead
right or wrong

:D

[nocilah]

Whats with this 2012 thing? Heard the date a couple of times, for the strangest reasons. What makes it strange to me, is it the same year that NASA predicts the the sun`s magnetic poles will do a polar flip.

magnetic poles flipped in 2001.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast15feb_1.htm

[NewsFlash]

Whats with this 2012 thing? Heard the date a couple of times, for the strangest reasons. What makes it strange to me, is it the same year that NASA predicts the the sun`s magnetic poles will do a polar flip.

Many things apparently will happen. LG is the EX-Spert here :) I wish he would leave the Christians be and start a thread on these predictions. It would be a helluva more interesting especially where they coincide with bible predictions. :) Can be a discussion until 2012 and we could then wager the outcome during the new years eve and the following day smile as nothing appeared to have happened.

Apparently we will be moving in a new stellar area or era. Lots of positive karma to come :)

[ghoti]

I know, but it will again in 2012. In 2001 our magnetosphere was not as weak as it is now. Our magnetic core is also on the brink of a flip. Should be fun.

[NewsFlash]

magnetic poles flipped in 2001.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast15feb_1.htm

That was the sun. Earth is due, When? Wait for 2012 to find out.

[Highflyer_GP]

but you would be moving or stationary.
alive or dead
right or wrong

:D
you could jog on the spot, then you would be doing both.
if you arrive braindead, would you be alive or dead?
there's right, wrong, and the truth

:p

[NewsFlash]

I know, but it will again in 2012. In 2001 our magnetosphere was not as weak as it is now. Our magnetic core is also on the brink of a flip. Should be fun.

We only need a heavy-weighted meteor to pass closely? Like in the bible time period. Any takers on the way? Maybe 2012 again?

[Dmitrimm]

Being lazy, I didn't read this entire thread.

"Satanism" as most of us know it is a media invention. A scare story. That's all. It's overrated, overblown and boring.

[ghoti]

We only need a heavy-weighted meteor to pass closely?

No. Though if it hit us thats a different story.

[nocilah]

No. Though if it hit us thats a different story.

there are a couple of interesting things about 2012.

December 21 2012 - The Long Count calendar used by the Maya civilization of pre-Columbian Mesoamerica completes its thirteenth b'ak'tun cycle since the calendar's mythical starting point (equivalent to 3114 BCE August 11 in the proleptic Gregorian calendar, according to the "GMT-correlation" JDN= 584283). The Long Count b'ak'tun date of this starting point (13.0.0.0.0.0) is repeated, for the first time in a span of approximately 5,125 solar years. The significance of this period-ending to the pre-Columbian Maya themselves is unclear, and there is an incomplete inscription (Tortuguero Stela 6) which records this date. It is also to be found carved on the walls of the Temple of Inscriptions in Palenque, where it functions as a base date from which other dates are computed. However, it is conjectured that this may represent in the Maya belief system a transition from the current Creation world into the next. The December solstice for 2012 also occurs on this day.

moores law - the old cpu law that speeds will doubt ect ect.


Some computer scientists and engineers claim that we're going to hit a major roadblock in Moore's Law around 2012, and that's what I'll talk about next time..... (http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s137447.htm)

# January 31 2012- 433 Eros, the second largest Near Earth Object on record (size 13x13x33 km) is expected to pass Earth at 0.1790 astronomical units (1 AU – about 93 million miles – is the average distance from Earth to the sun). NASA studied Eros in the NEAR Shoemaker probe launched February 2000. [3]

http://www.answers.com/topic/2012

interesting stuff

[nocilah]

Being lazy, I didn't read this entire thread.

"Satanism" as most of us know it is a media invention. A scare story. That's all. It's overrated, overblown and boring.

and this is also an invention?

http://www.churchofsatan.com/

although i will admit it is in dire need of redesign and i find it ironic that they accept donations :D

[ghoti]

there are a couple of interesting things about 2012.

December 21 2012 - The Long Count calendar used by the Maya civilization of pre-Columbian Mesoamerica completes its thirteenth b'ak'tun cycle since the calendar's mythical starting point (equivalent to 3114 BCE August 11 in the proleptic Gregorian calendar, according to the "GMT-correlation" JDN= 584283). The Long Count b'ak'tun date of this starting point (13.0.0.0.0.0) is repeated, for the first time in a span of approximately 5,125 solar years. The significance of this period-ending to the pre-Columbian Maya themselves is unclear, and there is an incomplete inscription (Tortuguero Stela 6) which records this date. It is also to be found carved on the walls of the Temple of Inscriptions in Palenque, where it functions as a base date from which other dates are computed. However, it is conjectured that this may represent in the Maya belief system a transition from the current Creation world into the next. The December solstice for 2012 also occurs on this day.

moores law - the old cpu law that speeds will doubt ect ect.

(http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s137447.htm)

# January 31 2012- 433 Eros, the second largest Near Earth Object on record (size 13x13x33 km) is expected to pass Earth at 0.1790 astronomical units (1 AU – about 93 million miles – is the average distance from Earth to the sun). NASA studied Eros in the NEAR Shoemaker probe launched February 2000. [3]

http://www.answers.com/topic/2012

interesting stuff

What an strange date. Theres little sign they cause mass extinction (often) but I imagine the weather and volcano stories could become interesting. Do you know of that super volcano underneath Yellow Stone Park?

Well with a magnetic pole flip, and the molten core changing directions I can see why its starting to show small signs its going to go pop soon. But this is speculation.

[nocilah]

What an strange date. Theres little sign they cause mass extinction (often) but I imagine the weather and volcano stories could become interesting. Do you know of that super volcano underneath Yellow Stone Park?

yup... two books i recommend to anyone to read.

fingerprints of the gods.

a short history of almost everything.

i am sure there are more books out there, but these books seem to have answered a lot of my questions.

[AntiThesis]

Speculation is fun :D

2012 does seem to be a pretty interesting year doesn't it? But I think I'll not predict anything for it. Prophets/doomsayers/random people have been predicting the end of the world for ages and ages and ages.

I don't think we'll ever know when the world is going to end and we'll most likely go out with a bang all of a sardine. Something that's always interested me is what if we discovered that the earth would cease to exist in 50 years time? What would we do?

[nocilah]

I don't think we'll ever know when the world is going to end and we'll most likely go out with a bang all of a sardine. Something that's always interested me is what if we discovered that the earth would cease to exist in 50 years time? What would we do?

more drugs.

[NewsFlash]

http://www.answers.com/topic/2012

interesting stuff
Scary stuff
http://www.2012predictions.net/

[Debbie]

NO warning me on behalf of God, unless you have a signed letter from Him...

A signed letter from God? I wonder what that'd go for on eBay :p

What if I said that I did have a signed letter from God? Would you believe me? Would you be able to recognise God's handwriting, or the medium God uses? Do you already know what his signature looks like... ? Or do you think it's one of those things you'd *just know* if you saw it?

//plenty more on this. to post or not to post.

//not directed at you lonegunman :)

[Nick333]

Good evening all.

I thought I'd grace you with a few of my thoughts on tolerance 'cos thats basically what this thread is about if I'm not much mistaken.

The definition of the word tolerance is a bit difficult to pin down. Its meaning ranges from respecting anothers beliefs and behavior to merely respecting that others have the right to believe and behave as they see fit. Obviously in both cases the behavior must not be of a nature that could cause harm to others.

To expect people to accept the first definition is an example of Disney inspired wishful thinking as far as I'm concerned and tantamount to mind control.
If someone were to say that they earnestly believe in a giant, intelligent spatula that tells them how to live their life and that they strip down naked and squat in pig **** every morning as part of their ritual worship of the giant spatula would anyone seriously suggest that we respect his belief and behavior?

We would certainly have to respect his right to believe his nonsense and to make a mockery of himself every morning. That is what I mean when I say tolerance.

As to insults and mockery of beliefs and behavior: as long as there are religious con men, people who will spread nonsense and undermine logic and reason and those who want to force their morality on others there will be reason to mock and insult their beliefs and behavior. For those of you who share these beliefs but don't share these aberrant behaviors I'm sorry that your beliefs must take a beating in the process of opposing these intolerant (and intolerable) behaviors, but your beliefs have a tendency to lead to those behaviors.

Waffle, waffle, blah, blah

G'night.

[NewsFlash]

Whats with this 2012 thing? Heard the date a couple of times, for the strangest reasons. What makes it strange to me, is it the same year that NASA predicts the the sun`s magnetic poles will do a polar flip.


A signed letter from God? I wonder what that'd go for on eBay :p

What if I said that I did have a signed letter from God? Would you believe me? Would you be able to recognise God's handwriting, or the medium God uses? Do you already know what his signature looks like... ? Or do you think it's one of those things you'd *just know* if you saw it?

//plenty more on this. to post or not to post.

//not directed at you lonegunman :)

Interesting thoughts. Maybe you will know,i if it had the power like the Ark of the covenent (Tabernacle).

http://www.users.bigpond.com/msn/gary_fletcher/ark.html
http://www.exodus2006.com/theark.htm

[sad777]

i've read this whole satanism effect and concluded that you're a bunch of people discussing a subject you know very little about we've got atheists, pagans & religious people, not one satanist, suppose to debate satanism as a religion ending up in conveying a lot of opinions which is not their own. you can never have a real opinion about anything unless you have experienced it firsthand i.e. 1) God that is the only and Almighty One cannot be debated or reasoned only experienced 2) earth will not end be destroyed or go anywhere anytime because He said it is eternal 3) anybody that calls himself a christain should conform to the Christ the blueprint 4) who has made satan a person or half animal half whatever, it has been stripped bare ±2007 years ago and will never be a threat to a real Christian ever 5) God vs. satan has, does, cannot & will never exist it will be the most unrealistic, unfair opposition ever I mean how can a creature….. enough said there is such a lot you don’t comprehend???

Suggestion: First come into the kingdom experience the King’s love, hospitality & goodness before you judge!! Love you all!

Ps. The life in each of you is a small part of God Himself and that is the part of you that is looking for a god to worship and it will never be satisfied until It finds the real God because only God can worship God and only God can satisfy God and you will never get away from It during your chronos time on earth. I wish you a kairos moment in the near future!!!

[Brenden_E]

i've read this whole satanism effect and concluded that you're a bunch of people discussing a subject you know very little about we've got atheists, pagans & religious people, not one satanist, suppose to debate satanism as a religion ending up in conveying a lot of opinions which is not their own. you can never have a real opinion about anything unless you have experienced it firsthand i.e. 1) God that is the only and Almighty One cannot be debated or reasoned only experienced 2) earth will not end be destroyed or go anywhere anytime because He said it is eternal 3) anybody that calls himself a christain should conform to the Christ the blueprint 4) who has made satan a person or half animal half whatever, it has been stripped bare ±2007 years ago and will never be a threat to a real Christian ever 5) God vs. satan has, does, cannot & will never exist it will be the most unrealistic, unfair opposition ever I mean how can a creature….. enough said there is such a lot you don’t comprehend???

Suggestion: First come into the kingdom experience the King’s love, hospitality & goodness before you judge!! Love you all!

Ps. The life in each of you is a small part of God Himself and that is the part of you that is looking for a god to worship and it will never be satisfied until It finds the real God because only God can worship God and only God can satisfy God and you will never get away from It during your chronos time on earth. I wish you a kairos moment in the near future!!!

Now's here's a contradiction if I ever saw one. Have you practiced satanism first hand so that you can comment fairly on it then? That's a rhetorical question...

Thanks for the love but I want s-e-x, baby!

[Nod]

Thanks for the love but I want s-e-x, baby!

Amen :D

[fivelza]

What if I said that I did have a signed letter from God? Would you believe me? Would you be able to recognise God's handwriting, or the medium God uses? Do you already know what his signature looks like... ? Or do you think it's one of those things you'd *just know* if you saw it?


Well God once wrote on the wall, maybe we can find a picture of that and compare the handwriting :rolleyes:

[jabulani]

Suggestion: First come into the kingdom experience the King’s love, hospitality & goodness before you judge!! Love you all!

Love is nice, but you can't eat it. Rather come to the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Why Convert To Pastafarianism?

* Flimsy moral standards
* Every Friday is a religious holiday
* Our Heaven is best - a Beer Volcano AND a Stripper Factory
* Free Pizza on joining
* 30-day guarantee

:)

[AntiThesis]

I don't much like beer :p

I suppose it's true that we can't ever know much about Satanism without having experienced it firsthand. However, I think LG talked about this earlier... how can we only comment on things we've experienced firsthand? By this reasoning we should just shut up and not explore anything ever. Bugger that.

[GamerGirl]

I have a few questions for Anti, as he seems to be one of the few Christians here that speaks clearly without a hot-tempered passion.

I grew up in a Christian home, and yes, as a 16 yr old I was confirmed into the Church of England. So, according to my understanding that makes ok to go into heaven. If people haven't been 'baptised' or 'confirmed' they cannot enter heaven?

Also, I want to ask anyone here who is a parent, given the extent of your love for you child, would you ever NOT forgive them for something they had done? I want to know, God (this amazing, all-powerful, incredibly loving being) if he would honestly condemn his child to eternal damnation for something like checking out his neighbour's wife (or any of the other 10 commandments or 7 deadly sins). 5 minute mistake= eternity in hell? Maybe I can appreciate murder/rape/abuse being a higher penalty than others, but it seems pretty clean cut to me? am I wrong? whats your take on this?

[fivelza]

I have a few questions for Anti, as he seems to be one of the few Christians here that speaks clearly without a hot-tempered passion.

I grew up in a Christian home, and yes, as a 16 yr old I was confirmed into the Church of England. So, according to my understanding that makes ok to go into heaven. If people haven't been 'baptised' or 'confirmed' they cannot enter heaven?

GG, let me try and give you a view as well. While different churches differ on baptism vs confirmation, effectively all you have to have done is accepted J3sus Chr!st as your Lord and Saviour and turn away from your old life of sin. I don't believe that you need to be baptised or confirmed, but there are views out there that disagree with this.



Also, I want to ask anyone here who is a parent, given the extent of your love for you child, would you ever NOT forgive them for something they had done? I want to know, God (this amazing, all-powerful, incredibly loving being) if he would honestly condemn his child to eternal damnation for something like checking out his neighbour's wife (or any of the other 10 commandments or 7 deadly sins). 5 minute mistake= eternity in hell? Maybe I can appreciate murder/rape/abuse being a higher penalty than others, but it seems pretty clean cut to me? am I wrong? whats your take on this?

If anyone repents from there sins they are forgiven. Christians believed that JC died on the Cross and therefore their sins are forgiven. His blood was effectively shed on our behalf. One of the difficulties Christians deal with (perhaps only me) is that no sin is greater or lesser than the other. This does not make logical sense but that is what it is.

[AntiThesis]

Depends who you speak to I guess. After reading up on a couple of different perspectives, the answers seem to be roughly divided into two groups.

Group one (Roman Catholic) says:

The great majority of [Roman Catholic] theologians teach that such children and unbaptized adults free from grievous actual sin enjoy eternally a state of perfect natural happiness, knowing and loving God by the use of their natural powers. This place and state is commonly called Limbo.

Which is actually pretty interesting because in 1994, John Paul effectively erased Limbo by having it excluded from the new Catachism. The only answer given by JP II was "we can only trust in the mercy of God".

Group Two goes for the "Burn the infidels!" approach so there's not a helluva lot of explanation needed there.

Myself, I don't know. I believe that there are conditions to salvation but I don't believe that Baptism is one of them. I've been part of too many denominations to believe that any single one is entirely correct. And as I'm sure many people thing, I ponder about how much biblical/religious law has been written/tainted by the hand of man.

[mancombseepgood]

I think the book of Hebrews explains things nicely. Faith - without faith it is impossible to please God... whoever comes to him must believe he exists. Bear in mind it was written to people who were heavy on the letter of the law and often missed the reality of God in all the man made stuff - much like many organisations out there today. Faith is not some airy fairy thing... it is a nurtured thing and grows the more you get to know God... just as with human relationships...
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word (rhema - spoken word) of God. It stands to reason that the more time you spend talking to and getting to know God, the more you will trust him, etc..
I believe the hobo who didn't get to see the inside of a church, much less be baptised is no more at a disadvantage than the rest of us. God is no fool.

[mancombseepgood]

To expect people to accept the first definition is an example of Disney inspired wishful thinking as far as I'm concerned and tantamount to mind control.
If someone were to say that they earnestly believe in a giant, intelligent spatula that tells them how to live their life and that they strip down naked and squat in pig **** every morning as part of their ritual worship of the giant spatula would anyone seriously suggest that we respect his belief and behavior?

We would certainly have to respect his right to believe his nonsense and to make a mockery of himself every morning. That is what I mean when I say tolerance.

As to insults and mockery of beliefs and behavior: as long as there are religious con men, people who will spread nonsense and undermine logic and reason and those who want to force their morality on others there will be reason to mock and insult their beliefs and behavior. For those of you who share these beliefs but don't share these aberrant behaviors I'm sorry that your beliefs must take a beating in the process of opposing these intolerant (and intolerable) behaviors, but your beliefs have a tendency to lead to those behaviors.
So what you suggest is that nobody believes for the sake of not looking like the others who claim to believe but miss the boat... naah - that's just the easy way out.
Go with the flow is fine if you don't want to rock the boat... as for me, I ask too many questions to pretend God cannot exist... at the risk of looking like a fool? It's been worth it for me. And while many will think the miracles I have seen in my life are coincidence or just plain insignificant, well everyone else's experiences usually are, so my suggestion is that if you ever get to the point where you want to get to know God - try it on his terms, you may be surprised... and if you differ on the definition of his terms to me, then don't worry, surely he knows that and can show you the truth...
As for the power of suggestion being so strong that once you get to that point, you will believe anything, you judge for yourself what is real and what isn't... but don't just write it off because you are scared you will fall under some mind spell... most people who feel they are quite in control of their faculties seem to have this argument.

[honorablepassion]

i'm not quite sure what to make of this site - 'grandmaster' LoneGunmen
i'll pour through it in time, i suppose - but it really makes me sick when people advocate evil, regardless of what form it takes. i really dont know much about the particulars of various agencies - which i suppose is why i'm here, but i have been looking at the masons in general... and am incredibly alarmed by organized satanism.
the 'lone gunmen' was a great show - though i really wonder if it, and the inwo game weren't more of a token gesture than anything else.
it's an interesting world - http://honorablepassion.wiki.com/steps is my research, **which i might add is alot better than 99% of the sites out there**(mainly on masons & various affiliations) :eek:
if anyone would like to edit/add/suggest changes to anything....

satanism's direction - and by that i mean organized direction - has my fascination. saw a band of olhp kids (who supposedly put on the con) at a hacker convention not too long ago who were incredibly friendly with the cia kids - and the hotel was shared by knights templar/whatnot.
being open minded & questioning Christianity is fine - it's the promotion of evil that... well.. you simply know better. :rolleyes: :cool: ;)

[Alan]

If you need me to answer that, then you obviously have no clue about how religion has more potential to do harm than good. Regardless, I never once saw an Atheist on this forum act in an intolerant manner - all they do is question in an attempt to find answers as to why people believe the things they do. If that's considered intolerant by religious folk, then I'm afraid to say that they're a seriously deluded bunch. It's not like Atheists call religious folk *******s or anything (which would be intolerant), but rather ask questions in order to better understand where they're coming from. Well that's from my perspective at least.


Perhaps you're confusing tolerance with approval. To tolerate doesn't mean that one has to agree, but to peacefully coexist.

I don't think insulting, ridiculing and intimidating is acceptable if one wants to claim that they are oh so tolerant. It is clear that there are those on this forum who partake in these activities with the sole intention to bash religion(well Christianity) and under the pretence of debating or "to fiind answers to why they believe" . (Well done to Gavinwhat'shisname for being honest about it) . What's irritating is these people are normaly the first to preach tolerance to other forumites.

[honorablepassion]

hmm... didn't realize there were so many pages; i'm new here.
as far as the 'going to heaven not baptized thing' - i follow many of mark twain's views... he thought the book of mormon was a good example of plagarism poorly written, that 'christian science' cult was lacking in reason..
and he seemed to have a decent opinion of the presbyterian denomination (one that says that baptism isn't vital, but nice - i think of the theif on the cross)
baptism is a sign - a symbol/something for others to witness & see your vow/conviction... kinda like getting married - you have witnesses. (and for reasons ;P i think we should have a tv show that points out what their job is exactly)

anyway :D http://honorablepassion.wiki.com/steps - masons & various cults/affiliations has my interest.. add/edit/suggestions.. whatever :D Ciao!

[evilspinach]

but it really makes me sick when people advocate evilThis evil is Satanism? Satanism promotes un-politically correct self purity (don't confuse this with Christian purity), in my opinion. Get past the stigmata that the Church has created as well as La Vey's theatrical and somewhat shock tactic styled writing and purely read the logic (haox or not, there was still some validity to his writings). I don't find evil at its core system, merely a left hand/alternate path to the bibles. Same goes for most other strains of Satanism. Main exclusion is the pure 'teen' rebellion type following - they seem to make their rules according to the Church's stereotyped 'devil worshippers'. By doing this, they break a whole bunch of Satanic codes, which deem them false anyhow (they are actually a form of obtuse thought vamps more than anything)... Those morons should not even be associated with the way of life.

I'm not going into masonry, because the topic is focussed on Satanism. How they fuse Satanism with their teachings is irrelevant, IMO.

I'll be reading your research. I hope it is not as one sided as your post was.

[mancombseepgood]

Hmm... anyone who advocates Lavey's form of Satanism has no right complaining about our government and their "look after yourself" attitude - it's the same philosophy!

[mancombseepgood]

Same goes for most other strains of Satanism. Main exclusion is the pure 'teen' rebellion type following - they seem to make their rules according to the Church's stereotyped 'devil worshippers'. By doing this, they break a whole bunch of Satanic codes, which deem them false anyhow (they are actually a form of obtuse thought vamps more than anything)... Those morons should not even be associated with the way of life.

This is not a teen phenomenon, there are enough doctors, lawyers, judges, etc. involved in the cult. And as for the stereotyped devil worshippers and breaking codes, etc. Who's Satanism are you referring to? Some may disagree with you... especially those who eat cat's livers and kill for kicks. I notice as well that sex has the same value through all of the versions of this cult. Purely an act of self gratification... love not required...

AFAIK Lavey uses plenty of Aleister Crowley work in that book... it's interesting that Aleister Crowley claimed to be a mason.
He was apparently also a well known drug abuser, sexist and racist... an interesting comment he made was:

There have been about four men in my life that I could say I have loved...Call me a bugger if you like, but I don't feel the same way about women. One can always replace a woman in a few days.

While that claim about women conflicts with other statements and actions of Crowley's, it accurately describes his relationships with Pollitt and various working class women during his college years.

For a supposedly enlightened guy, he seemed to die a miserable death:

Aleister Crowley died of a respiratory infection in a Hastings boarding house on December 1, 1947, at the age of 72. According to some accounts, he died on December 5, 1947. He was penniless and addicted to heroin, which had been prescribed for his asthma and bronchitis, many years prior.

Biographer Lawrence Sutin passes on various stories about Crowley's death and last words. Frieda Harris supposedly reported him saying, "I am perplexed," though she did not see him at the very end. According to John Symonds, a Mr Rowe witnessed Crowley's death along with a nurse, and reported his last words as, "Sometimes I hate myself." Biographer Gerald Suster accepted the version of events he received from a "Mr W.H." in which Crowley dies pacing in his living-room. Supposedly Mr W.H. heard a crash while polishing furniture on the floor below, and entered Crowley's rooms to find him dead on the floor. Patricia "Deirdre" MacAlpine, the mother of Crowley's son, Ataturk, denied all this and reports a sudden gust of wind and peal of thunder at the (otherwise quiet) moment of his death. According to MacAlpine, Crowley remained bedridden for the last few days of his life, but was in light spirits and conversational. Readings at the cremation service in nearby Brighton included one of his own works, Hymn to Pan, and newspapers referred to the service as a black mass. Brighton council subsequently resolved to take all necessary steps to prevent such an incident occurring again.

[evilspinach]

This is not a teen phenomenon, there are enough doctors, lawyers, judges, etc. involved in the cult. And as for the stereotyped devil worshippers and breaking codes, etc. Who's Satanism are you referring to? Some may disagree with you... especially those who eat cat's livers and kill for kicks. I notice as well that sex has the same value through all of the versions of this cult. Purely an act of self gratification... love not required...I am referring to the 'teen' or shock value phenomenon. You are referring to it too and obviously stereotypes have had an effect on your perception. You highlighted a perfect example too. Killing animals for kicks. Taking an animal life is forbidden, unless in defence or for food. Falsehood has no place in Satanism, neither do these little twerps who have no respect for animal life.

As for sex, why DOES there need to be love? How one goes about their sexual activity is of no business to another. If you're bound to another and you are hurting someone undeservedly by being bi/polygamous with your sexual exploits, then rather don't do it, or sever your ties to that person, depends on what means more to you. It is purely choice. Sex is NOT all about white picket fenced houses shared by 2 people in love. Sex is an 'animal' instinct which we largely have physical control over.

Your comment on the government - you take this selfish appearance of Satanism at face value. Satanic selfishness is about bettering your situation as a whole, this includes bettering those around you. There is a perfect quote from one of the Satanic Empires handbooks that eludes me but I'll try convey it through my rough memory. "Destroy the man who does nothing to better the lot of his fellow man, animal and earth...". It goes on a little more but I cannot remember it, regardless, that line says a lot. There is a distinct difference between self indulgence and pure greed in the Satanic world. My take on this is that the more content you are with yourself (what you view as selfishness), the more ready and charged you are to go out and better this (or more appropriately, YOUR) world.

Take a look at the animal kingdom and its "laws", THIS is the core of Satanism. There is no place for the "meek". Satanism is harsh and unforgiving BUT its ultra realistic in this regard. Half the worlds problems stem from man shunning or bypassing natures laws. We're overcrowded because of our compassion for the weak. EDIT: This compassion may seem unselfish at the time, but it is selfish on mankinds behalf, no real effort (up until now, since alarm bells are starting to ring) has gone into sustaining the planet and its non-human occupants.

Yeah yeah, I'm a bit of a misanthrope :D I make no apology for that though. My best times are spent with animals and, of course, with my chosen partner in life.

[mancombseepgood]

I am referring to the 'teen' or shock value phenomenon. You are referring to it too and obviously stereotypes have had an effect on your perception. You highlighted a perfect example too. Killing animals for kicks. Taking an animal life is forbidden, unless in defence or for food. Falsehood has no place in Satanism, neither do these little twerps who have no respect for animal life.

Yeah, but you are standing there and saying that they are not true satanists... sorry... this is funny to me...
I am saying they beg to differ - I am speaking from experience btw

[mancombseepgood]

If you're bound to another and you are hurting someone undeservedly by being bi/polygamous with your sexual exploits, then rather don't do it, or sever your ties to that person, depends on what means more to you.
I think you put it well here...
Why are you so worried about hurting someone undeservedly when it depends on what matters more to you anyhow - this is a contradiction.
What makes you able to determine when someone deserves to be hurt or not... what about the vicious circle...

Where does the law of the land come into this...
would you kill for revenge on a murder in your close family?
Where do you stand on the death penalty?
It's just that I meet so many satanists who are against the death penalty which I find strange.

[mancombseepgood]

Your comment on the government - you take this selfish appearance of Satanism at face value. Satanic selfishness is about bettering your situation as a whole, this includes bettering those around you. There is a perfect quote from one of the Satanic Empires handbooks that eludes me but I'll try convey it through my rough memory. "Destroy the man who does nothing to better the lot of his fellow man, animal and earth...". It goes on a little more but I cannot remember it, regardless, that line says a lot. There is a distinct difference between self indulgence and pure greed in the Satanic world. My take on this is that the more content you are with yourself (what you view as selfishness), the more ready and charged you are to go out and better this (or more appropriately, YOUR) world.

And therein lies the irony of it all... with your own gain as the center, you pretend that you do everything ultimately for the greater good. I'm sorry, but selfishness cannot result in betterment of the lives of the opressed and poor. And as for eliminating your enemies - well that speaks for itself and at the end of the day says Bush and Sadam are both right as it is subject to your interpretation of right and wrong.

[simple_simon]

this thread has gone on for quite a bit, didn't think it would get this much attention.

considering the following:
a) there is no such thing as the devil
b) there is no such thing as hell

its about as "fictional" as the christian bible....which is basically symbolic fiction.

[mancombseepgood]

Take a look at the animal kingdom and its "laws", THIS is the core of Satanism. There is no place for the "meek". Satanism is harsh and unforgiving BUT its ultra realistic in this regard. Half the worlds problems stem from man shunning or bypassing natures laws. We're overcrowded because of our compassion for the weak. EDIT: This compassion may seem unselfish at the time, but it is selfish on mankinds behalf, no real effort (up until now, since alarm bells are starting to ring) has gone into sustaining the planet and its non-human occupants.
Take a closer look around you - is HIV and AIDS a world problem? Is lack of animal instinct causing it?

[NewsFlash]

....which is basically symbolic fiction.

Sounds like you just learned a new phrase. Were studying at the Wiki?

[simple_simon]

Sounds like you just learned a new phrase. Were studying at the Wiki?

nope, just thought about it now and thats the only real description you can come up with honestly.

[evilspinach]

I know they beg to differ. I am also speaking from experience, so they will have a whole lot of begging to do with me, though :D To me, their virtues are hazy, even to themselves. I'll stick by that opinion. I guess this is similar to the Protestants vs Catholics argument - an opinionated struggle as to who is 'more' correct, so I guess we could enter an eternal duel. That would be a waste of energy for both of us.

[nocilah]

Take a look at the animal kingdom and its "laws", THIS is the core of Satanism.

i wouldn't confuse natural law with satanic law, they are vastly different.

and to top it off Anton Lavey commercialised and diluted satanism into an american bite size religion - like they do with everything.

And can you idiots please stop dropping these subtle hints of how you have 'experience', because when you were young and painted your nails black and masturbated over the cross of j3sus is not satanism, nor experience.

[NewsFlash]

i wouldn't confuse natural law with satanic law, they are vastly different.

and to top it off Anton Lavey commercialised and diluted satanism into an american bite size religion - like they do with everything.

And can you idiots please stop dropping these subtle hints of how you have 'experience', because when you were young and painted your nails black and masturbated over the cross of j3sus is not satanism, nor experience.

:eek: :D :D

[nthdimension]

saying that they are not true satanists... sorry... this is funny to me...
I am saying they beg to differ - I am speaking from experience btw
Well if teenagers says so it must be true. Nothing more reliable and stable than the opinions of a teenager.

[evilspinach]

I think you put it well here...
Why are you so worried about hurting someone undeservedly when it depends on what matters more to you anyhow - this is a contradiction.
What makes you able to determine when someone deserves to be hurt or not... what about the vicious circle...
Maybe a bad analogy. My main point was supposed to be that people have choice, in this case, with sex. There are both wise and stupid choices one can make. Love complicates these choices but love is certainly not a bad thing. Bottom line is that sex does not have to be what the bible says it should be.


Where does the law of the land come into this...
would you kill for revenge on a murder in your close family?
Where do you stand on the death penalty?
It's just that I meet so many satanists who are against the death penalty which I find strange.
Laws of the land: We are using this land. We should respect it as much as is humanly possible. It sustains our lives, not the other way around.

Vengeance does not need to be delivered with a dupe of the crime, you can equally affect or make your pain very real to your enemy via alternate means. Certainly, an eye for an eye is far better than turning the other cheek, though. My support of the death penalty would vary from case to case, I suspect.


And therein lies the irony of it all... with your own gain as the center, you pretend that you do everything ultimately for the greater good. I'm sorry, but selfishness cannot result in betterment of the lives of the opressed and poor. And as for eliminating your enemies - well that speaks for itself and at the end of the day says Bush and Sadam are both right as it is subject to your interpretation of right and wrong.I'm going to touch on this lightly, since it is clear that we do not see eye to eye on this. The selfish issue, to me, is mistaken for pride in all areas of self, and thus includes your surroundings. Having self worth does not mean you're selfish and willfully making positive change hardly smacks of pretense.

Bush and Saddam I will steer clear of. Both are assmongers, in my opinion - They have/had their own consciences to live with.

[mancombseepgood]

And can you idiots please stop dropping these subtle hints of how you have 'experience', because when you were young and painted your nails black and masturbated over the cross of j3sus is not satanism, nor experience.
My experience has not been any of the above, please don't make assumptions. I have worked with people who practive witchcraft and satanism while working for Youth for Christ and with SAPS.

Oh - evilspinnach - what is your take on demonic posession and deliverance... are you of the opinion that it is all hocus pocus?

[mancombseepgood]

Well if teenagers says so it must be true. Nothing more reliable and stable than the opinions of a teenager.

If you read my post you would have seen this bit:

This is not a teen phenomenon, there are enough doctors, lawyers, judges, etc. involved in the cult.

Hey - they exist and some have even been interviewed on SABC TV... and I am not talking about the brady bunch who say it is against satanic law to cut up animals.

[mancombseepgood]

Love complicates these choices but love is certainly not a bad thing.

Now don't you even think that may be an understatement of the n'th degree? By anyones standards?

[evilspinach]

i wouldn't confuse natural law with satanic law, they are vastly different.

and to top it off Anton Lavey commercialised and diluted satanism into an american bite size religion - like they do with everything.

And can you idiots please stop dropping these subtle hints of how you have 'experience', because when you were young and painted your nails black and masturbated over the cross of j3sus is not satanism, nor experience.To me the laws are very much the same. Its all about interpretation, I guess.

I won't disagree with your remark on La Vey. :p

You call us idiots for suggesting some experience of which you know no details? I hardly said it makes me more credible than the next person.

[nthdimension]

Hey - they exist and some have even been interviewed on SABC TV
List their names. We can go check them out.

[mancombseepgood]

Bush and Saddam I will steer clear of. Both are assmongers, in my opinion - They have/had their own consciences to live with.
Where does conscience come into it if it's OK to be selfish and do what you think is right?

[nocilah]

To me the laws are very much the same. Its all about interpretation, I guess.

I won't disagree with your remark on La Vey. :p

You call us idiots for suggesting some experience of which you know no details? I hardly said it makes me more credible than the next person.

unfortunately no one is credible.

[mancombseepgood]

List their names. We can go check them out.
What.. you think everything is on the internet? Or that your average doctor who practices witchcraft has posters in his waiting room? And don't you think that if I have that information, it is not my job to publish it? If you were a cop and knew about the perps with previuos form in child molesting or drug dealing, would you post their names here?

[mancombseepgood]

Oh - evilspinnach - what is your take on demonic posession and deliverance... are you of the opinion that it is all hocus pocus?

?

[Debbie]

I have worked with people who practive witchcraft and satanism while working for Youth for Christ and with SAPS.

Satanists working for yfc? Christianity really is becoming more tolerant, isn't it?

//just kidding PT :p

Enjoying this thread.


And can you idiots please stop dropping these subtle hints of how you have 'experience', because when you were young and painted your nails black and masturbated over the cross of j3sus is not satanism, nor experience.

Haha, this was kinda funny :)

[icyrus]

It is clear that there are those on this forum who partake in these activities with the sole intention to bash religion(well Christianity) and under the pretence of debating or "to fiind answers to why they believe" . (Well done to Gavinwhat'shisname for being honest about it) . What's irritating is these people are normaly the first to preach tolerance to other forumites.

I don't think anyone who you claim bashes christianity will have a problem bashing any other religion. Christianity just happens to be the biggest target.

[nocilah]

My experience has not been any of the above, please don't make assumptions. I have worked with people who practive witchcraft and satanism while working for Youth for Christ and with SAPS.

okay so you have talked to kids whom have painted their finger nails black and killed their pet hamster in the name of satan.

and as for demon possession a couple of centuries ago an epileptic was considered to be possessed.

[mancombseepgood]

Laws of the land: We are using this land. We should respect it as much as is humanly possible. It sustains our lives, not the other way around.

Vengeance does not need to be delivered with a dupe of the crime, you can equally affect or make your pain very real to your enemy via alternate means. Certainly, an eye for an eye is far better than turning the other cheek, though. My support of the death penalty would vary from case to case, I suspect.
I meant laws of the government...

According to lavey the vengance for someone who slaps you through the face is far worse than the crime... that means the revenge should be worse than the crime...

you can equally affect or make your pain very real to your enemy via alternate means.
I'm interested in some examples... for instance... if your wife comes home and tells you that someone confronted her and slapped her in a road rage incident... what would you suggest.

[nthdimension]

What.. you think everything is on the internet? Or that your average doctor who practices witchcraft has posters in his waiting room?
So you have nothing to even remotely back up these claims of lawyers, doctors and others involved in allegedly satanic activities? I suppose if you saw it on TV it must be true.

Frankly I wouldn't be even slightly concerned if my doctor professed to be a Wiccan.

[evilspinach]

Oh - evilspinnach - what is your take on demonic posession and deliverance... are you of the opinion that it is all hocus pocus?I believe a very small percentage of these sorts of things to be manifestation of ones own energies, or the energies of their surroundings. The rest are all a farce. If you are wondering why, or where I formed this opinion on the genuine cases: The Celestine Prophecies I found to be a great source of personal answers to the unexplained.

hehe, I have read up on countless religions and philosophies and yet I still feel no higher being exists. Rather a few wise authors and countless silly ones :p

Oh, your Bush and Saddam question. No, their conscience does not make things ok but they still have to go to bed with them at night. The people they most directly affect should be their fair judges (though that is utopic, in reality its another war call). I have my opinions on them, but I have little authority to even suggest what they deserve. Unless the petrol price is taken into account :D

[mancombseepgood]

okay so you have talked to kids whom have painted their finger nails black and killed their pet hamster in the name of satan.

and as for demon possession a couple of centuries ago an epileptic was considered to be possessed.

no need to get upset if you don't understand what I am talking about..
No i'm talking about perfectly normal and sane people who are apparently part of normal society behaving totally irrationally and displaying obvious signs of being under the influence of something (while not having touched any mind altering substance)...
and the behavior sets in during a prayer session with the (dutch reformed*) police chaplin

* the reason i mention this is so you don't start throwing the whole foaming at the mouth charismatic hipnosis theory around... however stupid.

[mancombseepgood]

So you have nothing to even remotely back up these claims of lawyers, doctors and others involved in allegedly satanic activities? I suppose if you saw it on TV it must be true.

Frankly I wouldn't be even slightly concerned if my doctor professed to be a Wiccan.

Maybe you need proof that doctors and advocates have been known to molest children or commit murder. Or do you refuse to believe it cos you saw it on tv?

[mancombseepgood]

I believe a very small percentage of these sorts of things to be manifestation of ones own energies, or the energies of their surroundings. The rest are all a farce. If you are wondering why, or where I formed this opinion on the genuine cases: The Celestine Prophecies I found to be a great source of personal answers to the unexplained.
What about people who convert to christianity and manage to kick a drug habit overnight without withdrawals... what would you put that down to?
I know of two guys personally - one was hooked so badly on barbituates that SANCA didn't want him... he would have died on his withdrawals according to them (the stuff he was on had withdrawals worse than heroin). The other had been a mainliner for some time... he landed in hospital with his head in a vice after a horrific motorcycle accident and was thought to be dead on arrival, was eventually told he would never walk again and then after prayer left the hospital on foot within two weeks. He converted some time after that.

[nthdimension]

I don't think anyone who you claim bashes christianity will have a problem bashing any other religion. Christianity just happens to be the biggest target.
It's not surprising since it is the religion most of us in the West would have had rammed down our throats as children. I am however an equal opportunity basher :)


Maybe you need proof that doctors and advocates have been known to molest children or commit murder.
Names have been named in specific cases. You claim adults have been involved in activities typically associated with rebellious Christian teenagers. So give us an example?

[mancombseepgood]

Satanists working for yfc? Christianity really is becoming more tolerant, isn't it?

//just kidding PT :p

Enjoying this thread.



Haha, this was kinda funny :)

Yeah.. YFC has been known to have (ex) satanists working for them.

[nthdimension]

What about people who convert to christianity and manage to kick a drug habit overnight without withdrawals... what would you put that down to?
I know of two guys personally - one was hooked so badly on barbituates that SANCA didn't want him... he would have died on his withdrawals according to them (the stuff he was on had withdrawals worse than heroin). The other had been a mainliner for some time... he landed in hospital with his head in a vice after a horrific motorcycle accident and was thought to be dead on arrival, was eventually told he would never walk again and then after prayer left the hospital on foot within two weeks. He converted some time after that.
Names, dates, specific details of the drugs involved?

[evilspinach]

What about people who convert to christianity and manage to kick a drug habit overnight without withdrawals... what would you put that down to?
I know of two guys personally - one was hooked so badly on barbituates that SANCA didn't want him... he would have died on his withdrawals according to them (the stuff he was on had withdrawals worse than heroin). The other had been a mainliner for some time...The placebo effect :D Seriously! The mind is a truly untapped resource, and it seems fear and desperation are the ones that most often do the tapping.

And respect to that guy. I obviously see his god as the placebo, where you would see God as the medication but that is irrelevant, he pulled something rather amazing.

[Nick333]

What about people who convert to christianity and manage to kick a drug habit overnight without withdrawals... what would you put that down to?
I know of two guys personally - one was hooked so badly on barbituates that SANCA didn't want him... he would have died on his withdrawals according to them (the stuff he was on had withdrawals worse than heroin). The other had been a mainliner for some time... he landed in hospital with his head in a vice after a horrific motorcycle accident and was thought to be dead on arrival, was eventually told he would never walk again and then after prayer left the hospital on foot within two weeks. He converted some time after that.

Actually Malcom X has a very similar life story. He was saved from drugs and alcohol by Americanized Islam. I'm sure Hindus, Buddhists and especially the New Agey types have many similar stories. None of these religions share a god, so who is responsible for curing these people of their addiction?

[NewsFlash]

Actually Malcom X has a very similar life story. He was saved from drugs and alcohol by Americanized Islam. I'm sure Hindus, Buddhists and especially the New Agey types have many similar stories. None of these religions share a god, so who is responsible for curing these people of their addiction?

Also the same God. He took pity on the sufferer, not the infidels Hope the poor healed soul thank them for praying to "their" unknown but true God. :D

[nocilah]

no need to get upset if you don't understand what I am talking about..
No i'm talking about perfectly normal and sane people who are apparently part of normal society behaving totally irrationally and displaying obvious signs of being under the influence of something (while not having touched any mind altering substance)...
and the behavior sets in during a prayer session with the (dutch reformed*) police chaplin

* the reason i mention this is so you don't start throwing the whole foaming at the mouth charismatic hipnosis theory around... however stupid.

why would i be upset? :confused:

anyway i think most sane people would behave irrationally and display abnormal signs during any dutch reformed prayer session.:D

[GamerGirl]

So you have nothing to even remotely back up these claims of lawyers, doctors and others involved in allegedly satanic activities? I suppose if you saw it on TV it must be true.

Frankly I wouldn't be even slightly concerned if my doctor professed to be a Wiccan.

You may/maynot know this already, and you were probably just using it as an example, but I just want to clear something up quickly.(sorry to change topic slightly.)

There is a MASSIVE difference between Satanists and Wiccans. Its as different as Muslims and Christians.

Thank-you. I'll shut-up now... :D all go back to what you were doing...

[Captain Beer]

Maybe you need proof that doctors and advocates have been known to molest children or commit murder. Or do you refuse to believe it cos you saw it on tv?

All the doctors and advocates still haven't molested half as many children as the catholic church.

[TELESPHORE]

If someone acknowledges the existence of Satan then at least the existence of God is then also acknowledged. The difference between God and Satan is though very obvious.

[TELESPHORE]

What about people who convert to christianity and manage to kick a drug habit overnight without withdrawals... what would you put that down to?
I smoked for more that 30 years and begged the Lord to be relieved from it so many times, but thinking I can do it on my own. It did not happen until I gave up my pride and used what he placed mankind there on earth in the first place, to support me and others. Now 3 years without a smoke and never looked back.
We are so dumb in out own pride to expect and insist in the Lord to reveal him to us personally. Why should He, until you acknowledge to be humble.
I know this seems like a simple and stupid argument and event, but it was important for me. I found out that I must approach His throne in humble and simplistic attitude. Dump my alter ego and inflated ego at the door.
Only then can you get into the great and wonderful presence of the Lord.

[mancombseepgood]

Yeah, I agree telesphore - it's not the same for everyone.

[mancombseepgood]

why would i be upset? :confused:

you tell me...

so you have talked to kids whom have painted their finger nails black and killed their pet hamster in the name of satan.
but then maybe you usually exaggerate - my apologies if so.

[nthdimension]

There is a MASSIVE difference between Satanists and Wiccans. Its as different as Muslims and Christians.
Responding to the statement made about doctors and witchcraft posters. However to Christians it is all the same. All evil, all the work of Lucifer.

[nthdimension]

The difference between God and Satan is though very obvious.
Satan is good, God is evil?

[mancombseepgood]

Well...
Satan means accuser...

[nthdimension]

Well...
Satan means accuser...
Yeah right, suddenly it gets used correctly because it suits you.

[Mr TB]

Quick question... who do you think if you were churchgoers was sitting in one of the front row seats in church and the most attentive and first to arrive at church... COME 5c FOR A CORRECT ANSWER...!

[Highflyer_GP]

Quick question... who do you think if you were churchgoers was sitting in one of the front row seats in church and the most attentive and first to arrive at church... COME 5c FOR A CORRECT ANSWER...!

Don't care, if I (hypothetically) went to church then it wouldn't affect my life which sheep sit in the front row.

[texo]

Quick question... who do you think if you were churchgoers was sitting in one of the front row seats in church and the most attentive and first to arrive at church... COME 5c FOR A CORRECT ANSWER...!

:confused:
I don't think your fingers have caught up with your brain :)

[Mr TB]

Yeah right, suddenly it gets used correctly because it suits you.

And the greek word "PARACLETOS", I hope i spelled it correctly, what does it mean!

[Mr TB]

:confused:
I don't think your fingers have caught up with your brain :)

Don't be cnfused!, you do not understand the preaching and the music is dull and in the frontrow in church is sitting, of course satan!

He doesn't want you to hear the good news!, doing everything possible to disturb you and succeeding most of the time!

[Highflyer_GP]

rofl, anyway I'm out of this thread if dodo is going to post his gibberish here.

[nocilah]

you tell me...

but then maybe you usually exaggerate - my apologies if so.

i always exaggerate :D

[nocilah]

Don't be cnfused!, you do not understand the preaching and the music is dull and in the frontrow in church is sitting, of course satan!

He doesn't want you to hear the good news!, doing everything possible to disturb you and succeeding most of the time!

:confused:

can someone decipher this for me plz

[Mr TB]

I smoked for more that 30 years and begged the Lord to be relieved from it so many times, but thinking I can do it on my own. It did not happen until I gave up my pride and used what he placed mankind there on earth in the first place, to support me and others. Now 3 years without a smoke and never looked back.
We are so dumb in out own pride to expect and insist in the Lord to reveal him to us personally. Why should He, until you acknowledge to be humble.
I know this seems like a simple and stupid argument and event, but it was important for me. I found out that I must approach His throne in humble and simplistic attitude. Dump my alter ego and inflated ego at the door.
Only then can you get into the great and wonderful presence of the Lord.

I am glad for you, it is a baddy isn't it? Like you say it all about this thing called pride-once that is realised everything in your life changes...humbleness and the real truth sets you free...

[TELESPHORE]

Satan is good, God is evil?
Remember these words when you do meet your Maker.

[Mr TB]

:confused:

can someone decipher this for me plz

Simple words: satan loves you going everywhere except where you may find god...

[Mr TB]

rofl, anyway I'm out of this thread if dodo is going to post his gibberish here.

Where are you going to post your gibberish now...if i may ask?

[nocilah]

Simple words: satan loves you going everywhere except where you may find god...

the church system is ruled by satan. i have seen those preachers on tv and they are everything but good. I wouldn't trust my worst enemies kids with them.

i saw a show on benny hin? (sp) dude who went to nigeria to 'heal' people. All i saw was him making tonnes of cash profiting off the ignorance of poor african people.

tell me what happens to him when he dies?

[SkypeUser]

I havent been on the forums for a while now, but when did this forum change from off topic to religion? Your religion is YOUR free choice, i DONT CARE who or what you do or do not believe in! Just start a RELIGION forum!

[Mr TB]

the church system is ruled by satan. i have seen those preachers on tv and they are everything but good. I wouldn't trust my worst enemies kids with them.

i saw a show on benny hin? (sp) dude who went to nigeria to 'heal' people. All i saw was him making tonnes of cash profiting off the ignorance of poor african people.

tell me what happens to him when he dies?

Did you see the money personally? Because i saw guys walking around holding crutches in the air and if i am not wrong some wheelchairs too.

You should be very careful in saying satan rules the church... in effect you are saying christ is satan, that is blashemy... be careful. If HINN indeed is fooling around the bible promise him a nice reward... that is not your decision yours is to ensure that you don't end up there with HINN... there is a reward for you also...