The Mark

[mancombseepgood]

This article is somewhat old and may be updated somewhere. I don't have a very specific personal opinion on the subject at this stage other than to say that there are alot of striking coincidences with the biblical account in Revelation and the current push for a global electronic monetary system as seen with the Euro for example. Also, the symbols, acronyms and names used in the Mondex example are interesting... while some may argue it was done deliberately, that would make no sense in the light of the resistance to the system that would obviuosly come from people in some of the worlds largest economies. Either way, it makes an interesting read. Personally I think this is just one aspect of the subject and believe there are many valid points here, but I don't think it's one dimensional and there is alot more to it. Also, I am reluctant to predict dates for anything. A guy by the name of Chris beard wrote the article.


After years of planning, research, and development the world's financial institutions are announcing the much anticipated GLOBAL CASHLESS SOCIETY. The ability to conduct all manner of monetary exchange is now being replaced by microchip technology and electronic currency.

MONDEX is the company providing this cashless system and has already franchised over 20 major nations. This system was created in 1993 by London bankers Tim Jones and Graham Higgins of NATEST/COUTTS, the personal bank of Britain's Royal Family.

The system is based on SMART CARD technology which employs microchips concealed in a plastic card which stores electronic cash, identification,and other information.

All transaction systems are being made secure by adopting SET protocols (Secure Electronic Transaction) and will display the SET MARK.

MON-DEX - A compound of the words MONETARY & DEXTER. Webster's Dictionary Encyclopedia Edition defines these words as:monetary - pertaining to money dexter - belonging to or located on the right hand; SET - the Egyptian god of evil or Satan.

Along with the cards, you may use a PET device (Personal ElectronicTransfer). This wallet sized calculator-like device allows you to conduct personal currency exchanges with other card holders.The cards also works with the NORTEL/BELL VISTA 360 phone, MILLENNIUM pay phones, ATMs, your PC, the INTERNET, and online businesses and institutions.

This cashless system has been tested extensively in the city of Guelph, in Ontario, Canada, and in the U.K. and U.S. All Canadian banks have signed up to MONDEX and will be promoting it soon.

Plans are to have it in widespread use by 1998.The CIBC (Canadian International Bank of Commerce) has even set up a model cashless branch inside NORTEL in Brampton, Ontario.

Over 250 corporations in 20 countries are involved in bringing MONDEX to the world and many nations have already been franchised to use it: the U.K., Canada, U.S.A., Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Hong Kong, China, Indonesia, Macau, Malaysia,Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, India, Taiwan, Sri Lanka, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama, Honduras, El Salvador and Belize.

The European Union is expected to adopt the MONDEX system as their unified currency solution.

Other SMARTCARD systems are quickly being put aside in favor of MONDEX, especially since MASTER CARD bought a 51% stake in the company.

NATWES will still maintain directorship in it's development and implementation. "This isthe final stage in becoming a global reality," said Robin O'Kelly of MONDEX International. "With MasterCard's backing, there's nothing to stop MONDEX now from becoming the global standard.

Eventually the idea of carrying a card will become obsolete as people soon discover that it has its security limitations-namely, being susceptible to damage, loss and theft.

The final solution will be to have the microchip simply placed inside the human body as they do now with microchip pet identification systems.

INFOPET is one of several companies that provide a syringe gun implantable bio-chip that is injected under the skin of an animal. The chip can be read by a scanner and the code identifying the owner and pet will bring up a file on a computer. The system boasts that it can track over 1 billion pets by satellites and cellular towers.

MOTOROLA, who produce the microchips for the MONDEX SMARTCARD, has developed several human implantable bio-chips.The BT952000 chip was engineered by Dr.Carl Sanders who was directed in 17 NEW WORLD ORDER meetings to develop the device for global use in humans for economic and identification purposes.

The bio-chip measures 7mm long and .75mm in width, about the size of a grain of rice. It contains a transponder and a rechargeable lithium battery.

The battery is charged by a thermo-couple circuit that produces voltage from fluctuations in body temperature. They spent over 1.5 million dollars studying where to place the chip in the human body.

They found only two suitable and efficient places -the FOREHEAD just under the hairline, and the back of the hand, specifically the RIGHT HAND.
"And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given mark in their right hand, or in their forehead, and he provides that no one should be able to buy or sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast, or the number of his name." (Revelation 13:16_)

Dr. Sanders was against the use of the lithium battery because it was known that if it were to break the lithium would cause a GRIEVOUS BOIL or sore and cause much agony to the host."And the first went and poured out his vial upon the earth, and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image." Revelation 16:2.

After Dr. Sanders left the project, he was introduced to the prophetic scriptures in the Bible concerning the "mark of the beast" He then converted to the Christian faith and now conducts seminars on this topic. He developed patented medical, surveillance, and security equipment for the FBI, CIA, IRS,IBM, GE, Honeywell, and Teledyne. He has also received the President's and Governor's award for design and excellence.

Mark is charagma, which means a scratch, or etching, stamp, insignia, or mark of servitude.The number 666 is the Greek phrase Chi Xi Sigma, meaning to stick or prick, a mark incised or punched for the recognition of ownership.

The industry name for the advanced smart card developed by GEM-PLUS and the U.S.DOD (Department of Defense) is the MARC (Multi-technology Automated Reader Card). The code name for it's development was 'TESSERA'. A tessera was the Roman insignia of ownership placed on their slaves which if removed would result in the slave being branded with a mark.

In November 1996 an agreement was made by which GEMPLUS will supply smartcards for the global implementation of MONDEX. AT&T/Lucent Technologies purchased the franchise for MONDEX USA. Their logo is the symbol of the Solar Serpent or RED DRAGON who is Satan. LUCENT is compounded from LUCIFER - ENTERPRISES. They seem to be quite flagrant in naming their products STYX (a river in Hades), JANUS (2 faced god) and INFERNO promoted with a quote from "The Inferno," a story about LUCIFER in the bowels of hell. The "ring of fire" is the ancient Pantheon.

[mancombseepgood]

And the passage in Revelation chapter 13:

1And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 4Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"

5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. 6He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.[b]

9He who has an ear, let him hear.
10If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity he will go.
If anyone is to be killed[c] with the sword,
with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.
The Beast out of the Earth
11Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

[mancombseepgood]

What about UPC/EAN Barcodes... is the number 666 encoded into them?
Some say yes, others no, below is an interesting article with references to various sources apparently including the original developer of the UPC BC...

interesting read... (http://www.av1611.org/666/barcode.html)

[Rkootknir]

Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/mondex.asp)

[fivelza]

The danger with this PT, is that whenever a number like 666 appears it immediately evokes all sorts of religious responses based on the book of Revelation. Revelation itself is tremendously complex and needs to really be studied in the original text to be properly understood.

I have had a discussion with a Pastor who could read Greek and Hebrew and he always warned against reading the 666 literally as a mark.

[Nick333]

Don't suppose you'd care to supply a link to the source of this well researched expose?

Never mind the fact that you didn't provide one is reason enough to suspect that it isn't what one might call reputable. A quick google search reveals that this conspiracy theory is a complete fabrication.

Thanks for proving once again that you're not above spreading outright falsehoods.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/mondex.asp

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_mondex_biochip.htm

[Nick333]

I see Rkootknir beat me to it. :)

[mancombseepgood]

The US Patent site:
http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html
Click the search and enter this number: 5629678
This may be one of many, I'm not sure...

[mancombseepgood]

I'm not disputing that this theory has it's detractors, but there are some interesting finds and conincidences here.
Why would Mondex use names like styx, janus for example? Why the obsession with hell? Why the solar serpent or sun orb for lucent?

As I said, there will always be detractors... and of course those who exaggerate.

[fivelza]

Why would Mondex use names like styx, janus for example?

Marketing dare I say ;)

[Nick333]

I'm not disputing that this theory has it's detractors, but there are some interesting finds and conincidences here.
Why would Mondex use names like styx, janus for example? Why the obsession with hell? Why the solar serpent or sun orb for lucent?

As I said, there will always be detractors... and of course those who exaggerate.

The authors of this hoax made up these names. They are fabrications.

[mancombseepgood]

Well, it isn't well marketed - it's generally in house info. I have an old mondex web page somewhere on a CD that I saved around 10 years ago... will have a look for it. It's no longer on their pages.

[mancombseepgood]

The authors of this hoax made up these names. They are fabrications.

I have seen them on the Mondex site at around the time Mondex was bought out by Mastercard - I'll have a hunt for the original pages and post them if I find them. I looked into this back then.

[fivelza]

Well, it isn't well marketed - it's generally in house info. I have an old mondex web page somewhere on a CD that I saved around 10 years ago... will have a look for it. It's no longer on their pages.

Not my point, the thought process 'could' have been 'well lets use this controversial name linked to the Bible, get a whole lot of people riled up, make front page news.......', but it could also backfire :o

[Nick333]

The US Patent site:
http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html
Click the search and enter this number: 5629678
This may be one of many, I'm not sure...

Yes, which leads to a product which in no way is connected to Mondex. Also makes no mention of only being suitable for implant in the forehead or the right hand (why the right hand ffs?).

Gullible is what you are mate. Read the snopes and about articles before you start prattling about detractors.

[Nick333]

I have seen them on the Mondex site at around the time Mondex was bought out by Mastercard - I'll have a hunt for the original pages and post them if I find them. I looked into this back then.

Mondex manufacturers smartcards. The chips used in them are manufactured by third parties. Mondex do not manufacture chips.

http://www.mondex.com/

[MrJones]

When I was in High School, I had this Maths teacher who was a bit odd. If we wanted to get out of the lesson we would talk about the bible, and satan, and she always used to tell us about "the mark". Actually I've got this mole on my ass, does that count as a "mark".

[fivelza]

Actually I've got this mole on my ass, does that count as a "mark".

LOL, I hope not, it would mean you would be flashing everyone in future who asked to see your id :D

[mancombseepgood]

Yes, which leads to a product which in no way is connected to Mondex. Also makes no mention of only being suitable for implant in the forehead or the right hand (why the right hand ffs?).

Gullible is what you are mate. Read the snopes and about articles before you start prattling about detractors.

It's just an inplantable chip.... I never mentioned forhead or right hand, but we can research those seperately if you like. As for the article quote, I didn't write it and merely find it interesting - correct or incorrect to whatever degree.
Oh - here are some of the articles which mention inferno and styx:
http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLd4y3cAsFSYGZzgH6kS hiBvGOCJEgfW99X4_83FT9AP2C3NCIckdHRQB02b-I/delta/base64xml/L3dJdyEvd0ZNQUFzQUMvNElVRS82X0FfQkdS?LMSG_CABINET= Docs_and_Resource_Ctr&LMSG_CONTENT_FILE=News_Releases_LU_1996/LU_News_Article_005923&lu_lang_code=en_WW
http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLd4y3cAsFSYGZzgH6kS hiBvGOCJEgfW99X4_83FT9AP2C3NCIckdHRQB02b-I/delta/base64xml/L3dJdyEvd0ZNQUFzQUMvNElVRS82X0FfQkdS?LMSG_CABINET= Docs_and_Resource_Ctr&LMSG_CONTENT_FILE=News_Releases_LU_1997/LU_News_Article_006117&lu_lang_code=en_WW
no, the authors of the hoax didn't make them up.

Personally I don't believe these are the only issues, but the issue of not being able to buy or sell without the mark is interesting when read in this context.

[mancombseepgood]

Mondex manufacturers smartcards. The chips used in them are manufactured by third parties. Mondex do not manufacture chips.

http://www.mondex.com/

I think what you are saying is that this requires involvement from more than one organisation... i.e. it requires a bigger system outside of one entity. Governments included. I'm sure an implant chip is just one such example...

[mancombseepgood]

Not my point, the thought process 'could' have been 'well lets use this controversial name linked to the Bible, get a whole lot of people riled up, make front page news.......', but it could also backfire :o

yes, but then they would probably have advertised it as such, not kept those details in the background...

[mancombseepgood]

Barcelona clubbers get chipped
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3697940.stm


The night club offers its VIP clients the opportunity to have a syringe-injected microchip implanted in their upper arms that not only gives them special access to VIP lounges, but also acts as a debit account from which they can pay for drinks.

someone put it like this:

Things like this always start out controversial until it quietly becomes a part of everyday life. First in pets, then you implant it young adults before they go into a nighclub, put it into cartoons. Basically a gradual introduction to numb the blow.

[mancombseepgood]

Another discussion on it here: (http://digg.com/general_sciences/Raise_Your_Right_Hand_Chip_Implants_for_Everyone)

As a Christian, I've always been a little skeptical of prophecy and what not. But more and more events are starting to come into place that are eerily familiar (such as the mark of the beast). Many people are quick to dismiss anything that has to do with the Bible, especially when it's as "coded" as revalations is. But imagine being alive over 2000 years ago and having a vision of the end of the world. One would only be able to describe today's technology and power with a limited comprehension. "Fire from the sky" can easily be interpretted as any sort of missile weapon, and it's not too far fetched to think that all trade will require an implant in the right hand (mark of the beast). All that's left in my mind prophecy wise is a seven year treaty involving Israel and a global currency. Anyone who believes that someone could have merely guessed this stuff over 2000 years ago needs to take another look in the mirror.

[mancombseepgood]

Also makes no mention of only being suitable for implant in the forehead or the right hand (why the right hand ffs?).

I guess the same question applies to raising your right hand to swear an oath. Despite the question, it's required.

[nocilah]

the chip story is a load of hogwash. I do a lot of work for the financial sector and the chip implanted in the arm story or the cashless society that has been threatening for some time now and you can be rest assured it will not happen on a global level, at least not in our lifetime.

[noxibox]

But more and more events are starting to come into place that are eerily familiar (such as the mark of the beast). Many people are quick to dismiss anything that has to do with the Bible, especially when it's as "coded" as revalations is. But imagine being alive over 2000 years ago and having a vision of the end of the world. One would only be able to describe today's technology and power with a limited comprehension.
They seem to have been repeatedly eerily familiar.

Why is it supposedly coded?

Why aren't the descriptions actually detailed and accurate rather than apparently the ravings of someone who ate a few too many mushrooms?


(why the right hand ffs?).
Wouldn't fit well with the alleged prophecy otherwise.


names like styx, janus for example? Why the obsession with hell? Why the solar serpent or sun orb for lucent?
Cool names all round.


I never mentioned forhead or right hand

They found only two suitable and efficient places -the FOREHEAD just under the hairline, and the back of the hand, specifically the RIGHT HAND.

[mancombseepgood]

Why is it supposedly coded?

Why aren't the descriptions actually detailed and accurate rather than apparently the ravings of someone who ate a few too many mushrooms?

Well... here's your cue:
You are living 2000 years ago, you see these things in a revelation...
here is your chance to explain...
what do you say?

As for the right hand thing...
finish the quote

I never mentioned forhead or right hand. As for the article quote, I didn't write it and merely find it interesting - correct or incorrect to whatever degree.

[mancombseepgood]

the chip story is a load of hogwash. I do a lot of work for the financial sector and the chip implanted in the arm story or the cashless society that has been threatening for some time now and you can be rest assured it will not happen on a global level, at least not in our lifetime.

The chip or chashless society...? The chip is already a reality (although not widespread)
Personally I haven't drawn cash for some time.
My wife likes to use it, but I find it far easier to gravitate towards electronic transactions.

[nocilah]

The chip or chashless society...? The chip is already a reality (although not widespread)
Personally I haven't drawn cash for some time.
My wife likes to use it, but I find it far easier to gravitate towards electronic transactions.

a smartcard is a chip. I mean a chip embedded in the arm - we aint going to see that for many many many many years to come.

[noxibox]

what do you say?
For Christ sake God just spell it out and stop playing your silly games.

[mancombseepgood]

a smartcard is a chip. I mean a chip embedded in the arm - we aint going to see that for many many many many years to come.

Did you look at this link?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3697940.stm

[Nanfeishen]

As stated earlier in the thread , it is currently not practical, and not in our lifetime's ,i.e. how are you going to deal with informal traders, flee markets, garage sales, your kid who goes to the shop to buy a chocolate or cooldrink?
not to mention the invasion of a persons privacy, i.e. monitoring what books people read, by what they buy electronically(although this is being practiced in the U.S.A. ), or sex toys/books purchased by adults (opens the door to blackmail and extortion), not to mention how will you be able to purchase goods in third world countries? most of them dont even have electronic tills, let alone paypoints and scanners?
Its like trying to use your credit card to buy something from a general dealer in the middle of the eastern cape or in a village in Lesotho, yeah right!
It doesnt even make for a plausible conspiracy theory :D
Sorry, but to me this sounds like fear-mongering by certain groups to try and justify certain things written in a certain books, to herald what is termed the sign's of the last of the days by the aformentioned certain groups, and to drum up support for said groups theories and concepts, by said groups followers and possible future supporters.

[mancombseepgood]

I am as reluctant to write it off as I am to predict any timing, but the evidence and case is there, infrastructure or not.
Maybe the point is that if you are not able or willing to take the step you will have to survive in the informal sector of society. Already many banks don't allow transactions over the counter without the green IDs... think of the implications for those without documents. People already do electronic transactions over the internet... and with keyloggers etc, it would be tempting to introduce this kind of ID over the net too... how long until we have electronic payment systems in every household (most already do in the form of internet banking - which has become more common with the advent of cellphone linked accounts which you can use to transfer funds). And how many people would have thought people living in informal settlements would have cellphones when they were new (not so long ago).

As for the cost of dealing with cash and cash in transit heists, you can be assured that the SA banking sector would be very receptive to an idea like this.

[mancombseepgood]

Its like trying to use your credit card to buy something from a general dealer in the middle of the eastern cape or in a village in Lesotho, yeah right!
Hey - you can use your cellphone in the middle of the EC and Lesotho... that would have been a joke not long ago.
I use my CC in Arusha among other places. Once the framework is down, it's just a matter of linking the different technologies... think of the growth of the web.

[Nick333]

Oh - here are some of the articles which mention inferno and styx:
http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLd4y3cAsFSYGZzgH6kS hiBvGOCJEgfW99X4_83FT9AP2C3NCIckdHRQB02b-I/delta/base64xml/L3dJdyEvd0ZNQUFzQUMvNElVRS82X0FfQkdS?LMSG_CABINET= Docs_and_Resource_Ctr&LMSG_CONTENT_FILE=News_Releases_LU_1996/LU_News_Article_005923&lu_lang_code=en_WW
http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLd4y3cAsFSYGZzgH6kS hiBvGOCJEgfW99X4_83FT9AP2C3NCIckdHRQB02b-I/delta/base64xml/L3dJdyEvd0ZNQUFzQUMvNElVRS82X0FfQkdS?LMSG_CABINET= Docs_and_Resource_Ctr&LMSG_CONTENT_FILE=News_Releases_LU_1997/LU_News_Article_006117&lu_lang_code=en_WW
no, the authors of the hoax didn't make them up.

Personally I don't believe these are the only issues, but the issue of not being able to buy or sell without the mark is interesting when read in this context.

Dude seriously what are you on? You make this claim:



Why would Mondex use names like styx, janus for example? Why the obsession with hell? Why the solar serpent or sun orb for lucent?
.

Then link to another company altogether and products that bear no resemblance to the alledged implants.

[mancombseepgood]

not to mention how will you be able to purchase goods in third world countries? most of them dont even have electronic tills, let alone paypoints and scanners?
They have them in third world countries... Zambia, Kenya, Rwanda, DRC, Tanzania... Maybe not all over, but most travelled people can tell you about cell phone penetration in third world countries... I have bought airtime in dusty streets in Luanshya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luanshya).

[nocilah]

Did you look at this link?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3697940.stm

yes - a beach club aint exactly going to change the world and the bible specifically states a mark on the forehead or right hand. in my eyes a mark would need to be seen.

now we could go further and be abstract.

thumbprints and retinal scan? identification? you can not buy nor sell with out proving your identification especially if credit cards are going to be used more and more. in future this mark may be biometric and nothing to do with a chip.

imagine your thumbprint and or retinal scan is your unique identifier that ties into a world wide database which has all your details and bank balance.

it is something that can be debated and interpreted on many different levels.

[mancombseepgood]

in future this mark may be biometric and nothing to do with a chip.

imagine your thumbprint and or retinal scan is your unique identifier that ties into a world wide database which has all your details and bank balance.

it is something that can be debated and interpreted on many different levels.

Sure - no argument there - this is just theory...
It's just the way the picture is alot clearer in this context today than 100 years ago - it's looking more and more feasable as time goes on.
Interesting that the prophecy is 2000 years old.

[mancombseepgood]

Dude seriously what are you on? You make this claim:



Then link to another company altogether and products that bear no resemblance to the alledged implants.

Youre right - it was Lucent, not Mondex... Lucent have the Mondex franchise tho'...

In November 1996 an agreement was made by which GEMPLUS will supply smartcards for the global implementation of MONDEX. AT&T/Lucent Technologies purchased the franchise for MONDEX USA. Their logo is the symbol of the Solar Serpent or RED DRAGON who is Satan. LUCENT is compounded from LUCIFER - ENTERPRISES. They seem to be quite flagrant in naming their products STYX (a river in Hades), JANUS (2 faced god) and INFERNO promoted with a quote from "The Inferno," a story about LUCIFER in the bowels of hell. The "ring of fire" is the ancient Pantheon.

[nocilah]

i recently was afforded the opportunity to design a credit card for one of the many banks in or country and i was very tempted to put a mark of the devil on it just to fyck around with people who might have noticed, but decided it would not be wise for my career, but it would have been funny.

[Prometheus]

I'm not disputing that this theory has it's detractors, but there are some interesting finds and conincidences here.
Why would Mondex use names like styx, janus for example? Why the obsession with hell? Why the solar serpent or sun orb for lucent?

As I said, there will always be detractors... and of course those who exaggerate.
Wannabee devil worshippers. :eek:

I guess the same question applies to raising your right hand to swear an oath. Despite the question, it's required.
Why swear on anything?

[DragonLogos]

" Their logo is the symbol of the Solar Serpent or RED DRAGON who is Satan "

Perhaps some distant cousin :)


here is the wiki ped say on the matter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast_(numerology)

[Aqua_lung]

The mark was Nero most likely IMO



One interpretation is that 666 encodes the letters of someone’s name or title, identifying the Antichrist.

To be convincing, interpretations invoke arguments other than mathematics to prove their point. For example, scholars who believe that the Book of Revelation refers to historical people and events argue that the number represents Nero.[11] This hypothesis was first presented by Friedrich Engels. The value of “Neron Caesar”, written as “נרון קסר”, “Nrwn Qsr”, using Hebrew letters with numerical values under the usual number values of the Hebrew alphabet when used to write numbers, is (the below is only for illustration purposes, in reality, there is no transliteration, but rather, Hebrew numbers (which are letters) are used):



The hypothesis that 666 is a code for a Roman emperor seems to have historical support. The emperors were noted for their oppression of both Jews and early Christians. Both communities were known to use numerology and codes where living under Roman rule to avoid persecution. Accordingly, the German protestant theologian Ethelbert Stauffer conceived a Greek gematrical procedure to explain the number 666.[12] Judging from the precise information that the Book of Revelation gives about the person behind the number 666[13] Stauffer concluded that the "beast" can in general only refer to a Roman emperor and specifically only to Domitian, also because he had reigned during the proposed time of origin of the Apocalypse. In addition Domitian's "secret derisive nickname" had been "The Beast" with Romans, Greek, Christians and Jews.[14] Stauffer computed the Number of the Beast using the short form of Domitian's five titles and names A KAI ΔOMET ΣEB ΓE, as derived from the abbreviations on coins and inscriptions.[15]

Aleister Crowley (1875–1947) claimed that he was the Beast prophesied in the Book of Revelation and took the name “Το μεγα θηριον”, Greek for “The Great Beast”, which adds up to 666 by isopsephy, the Greek form of gematria.[16][17]

The Reformed scholar, Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., states that the code identifies Nero.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast

[Prometheus]

The mark was Nero most likely IMO



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast
Impossible. If that was the case then no one would have been able to buy and sell without his mark and we would have had a >1000km square block sitting somewhere in the middle east.

[DragonLogos]

or burn CD ROMs... DVDs and Witches

[Syndyre]

it's looking more and more feasable as time goes on.
Interesting that the prophecy is 2000 years old.

That's very much an opinion.

[Syndyre]

Hypothetically, if 666 really is the mark of the beast and its somehow encoded in the bar code/smart chips and you have one implanted in you how does that make you a satanist? IMO something like a number or symbol only has any power if you let it.

[Prometheus]

Hypothetically, if 666 really is the mark of the beast and its somehow encoded in the bar code/smart chips and you have one implanted in you how does that make you a satanist? IMO something like a number or symbol only has any power if you let it.
The way I understand it is that it's not the mark itself, but the fact that you would accept it without question means you accept the ways of the world and not God. The damage is done and it's irreversible. A lot of people are carrying the mark around with them as we speak. A physical mark will only be a confirmation of this.

[Pr⊕phet]

i would love to meet the person who can say that the first time fluently ;)



Hexakosioihexek0ntahexaphobia (literally, "fear of the number six-hundred-sixty-six") is the fear that originates in the Biblical verse Revelation 13:18 which indicates that the number 666 is the Number of the Beast, linked to Satan or the Anti-Christ. Outside the Christian faith, the phobia has been further popularized as a motif in various horror films.

Hexakosioihexek0ntahexaphobes will strongly avoid things related to the number 666. A prominent example is of Nancy and Ronald Reagan who, in 1989, when moving to their home in the Bel-Air section of Los Angeles, had the address of 666 St. Cloud Road changed to 668 St. Cloud Road. Some women also expressed concern on giving birth to a child on 6/6/2006.

Rarer is trying to avoid the number as it relates to other numbers. For example, the fraction 2/3 has a repeating decimal of .666…. A severe hexakosioihexek0ntahexaphobe may avoid all fractions that would include this recurring decimal. Those with hexakosioihexek0ntahexaphobia may consider it bad luck to get three sixes in a hand of poker, even though this is usually quite a good hand.

Many are afraid of the digits 666, rather than the quantitative number adding up to this amount.

In 2006, the BBC listed Hexakosioihexek0ntahexaphobia and its definition as fact #64 in it's "100 things we didn't know last year"






In mathematics

666 is an abundant number. It is the sum of the first 36 natural numbers (i.e. 1 + 2 + 3... + 34 + 35 + 36 = 666), and thus a triangular number. Since 36 is both square and triangular, 666 is the sixth number of the form n²(n² + 1) / 2 (triangular squares) and the eighth number of the form n(n + 1)(n² + n + 2) / 8 (doubly triangular numbers.)

666 is the sum of the squares of the first seven prime numbers (i.e. 2² + 3² + 5² + 7² + 11² + 13² + 17² = 666).


The harmonic mean of the decimal digits of 666 is an integer: 3/(1/6 + 1/6 + 1/6) = 6, making 666 the 54th number with this property.

In base 10, 666 is a palindromic number, a repdigit and a Smith number. A prime reciprocal magic square based on 1/149 in base 10 has a magic total of 666.

The Roman numeral representation of the number 666 (DCLXVI) uses once each the Roman numeral symbols with values under 1,000, occurring in descending order of their respective values (D = 500, C = 100, L = 50, X = 10, V = 5, I = 1).

666 is a member of the Indices of prime Padovan sequence, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 14, 19, 30, 37, 84, 128, 469, 666, 1262, 1573, 2003, 2210,





In other fields

* 666 is referred to as the Number of the Beast in the Book of the Revelation (see Revelation 13:17-18).

* In War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy, the main hero (Pierre Bezukhov) uses numerology to show that Napoleon Bonaparte is the Antichrist. Bezukhov then find the same to be true for his own name when the French version of his nationality is added. [1] Mistakes in both calculations are often noted in the reviews. [2]

* Since the "sine of the Devil" sin (666°) = -1/2 times the golden ratio, this expression has been paraphrased by the humorous quip "The sign of the devil is the opposite of good, but only half as strong." Note that (sin 306°) and (sin -54°) are mathematically synonymous with (sin 666°).

* Vicarius Filii Dei, an epithet for the Pope which means literally "vicar of the son of God", adds up to 666 if only the letters with Roman numeral values are included (VICarIVs fILII DeI would give VICIVILIIDI = 5+1+100+1+5+1+50+1+1+500+1). This epithet was never used by the Catholic church itself and was likely invented by a person who believed that the Antichrist would be a Pope.

* 666 was used as a nickname by Aleister Crowley, an occultist who styled himself as the Beast referred to in the Book of the Revelation.

* The UPC barcodes found on most commercial products are characterized by guard bars at the beginning, middle and end made up of two thin lines. Two thin lines also appear in the UPC encoding for the digit 6 (and no other digit), and so to human eyes (but not to an electronic barcode reader) the guard bars appear to read 666. Some people interpret this as a fulfillment of the prophecy "Without this number an individual will not be able to buy or sell" (cited from the Book of the Revelation 13:17).[3]

* The 2006 remake of the horror film The Omen was released on June 6, 2006 (06/06/06) at 06:06:06 in the morning.

* The full name of former U.S. President Ronald Wilson Reagan contains six letters in each of his three names. This caused a few numerologists to believe that Reagan was in fact the antichrist, such as Gary D. Blevins. Additionally, when Reagan moved to California following the end of his presidency, he asked that his house number be changed from 666 to 668. [4]

* 666 is the port number used by the game Doom when playing against another player via TCP.

* Most versions of the computer game Lemmings feature a level called "All the 6's ...". The level layout features three 6's built upon the "hellish" lava terrain set, 66 Lemmings and 66 of every skill, a time limit of 6 minutes, a release rate of 66, and the player must rescue 66% of the Lemmings.

* In Chinese culture, 666 sounds a lot like the words 'Things going smoothly'. It is considered one of the luckiest numbers in Chinese culture. It can be seen prominently in many shop windows across the country, and people there often pay extra to get a mobile phone number including this string of digits.

* 6-6-6 is Waw-Waw-Waw ("WWW") in Hebrew, since in Hebrew, letters have numerical values. The number 666 however is Taw-Resch-Samech-Waw (400-200-60-6), since in Hebrew, hundreds, tens and ones have different characters.

* 666 is the amount of gold talents that King Solomon collected in a single year (see 1 Kings 10:14 and 2 Chronicles 9:13).

* 666 is the number of Adonikam's descendants who return to Jerusalem and Judah from the Babylonian exile (see Ezra 2:13).

* 666 was the original name of the Macintosh SevenDust computer virus that was discovered in 1998.

* Six-Sixty-Six is the title of a song by Christian rock pioneer Larry Norman. A cover version was recorded by Frank Black and the Catholics.

* 666 is the nickname of Canadian punk rock n' roll band Kill Cheerleader.

* The circumstance, that Bodenseesender transmits on 666 kHz, resulted in the nickname "Teufelsturm" ( Devil's Tower) to its 240 metre tall main antenna mast.


sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast_%28occurrence%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/666_%28number%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexakosioihexe****ahexaphobia
...

don't know how much of you remeber the cpu MHz that was remapped to 667 to avoid any panic or
boy-cots ?
...

another find on this was that :


The Number of the Beast is described in the Book of Revelation 13:18. From the King James translation:
“ Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. ”

In the Greek manuscripts, the Number is rendered in Greek numerical form as “χξς”, or sometimes literally as “six hundred and sixty-six”, “ἑξακόσιοι ἑξήκοντα ἕξ”. [exakosioi exék0nta ex - lit. sixhundred sixty six]

The oldest known record of the verse, a fragment of an early manuscript of Revelation from the Oxyrhynchus site, gives a different number, 616, as “χιϛ”. The early Church father Irenaeus knew several occurrences of the 616-variant but regarded them as a scribal error, although he didn't know the meaning of the number. The Zürich Bible which is based on the oldest Bible manuscripts also mentions the number 616.


so which is it 666 or 616 ??

other found source on - is www realted to the mark of the beast
http://www.av1611.org/666/www_666.html



Notice how Revelation 13:18 reads:

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Rev. 13:18

The number is NOT simply three SIXES or 6-6-6, but 600 + 60 + 6, or the number "Six hundred sixty and six".

...

maybe the mark isn't physical at al, if any mark at all.
...

why would Hexakosioihexek0ntahexaphobia be a swear word ? hehe

[mancombseepgood]

@Ryuji - this was not intended to be a thread about fear or fear of anything.
@Syndre, no'one was defining a satanist - the scriptures posted have to do with prediction of the end times and what to expect...
And the fact that it looks more feasable as time goes on may be an opinion, but honestly, do you think it's less feasable now to have a bio chip implanted that 100 years ago?

Either way, this is an attempt to spell out a theory - this is not a thread about salvation or religion... take from it what you like, but I find the subject interesting to consider and it's up to you to make up your own mind what you think...

For me the main point is... this is a 2000 year old prophecy... do people deliberately manufacture these coincidences, are they merely coincidence? etc.
The ultimate would be to eliminate your green id book, driver's license card, bank cards, etc. etc. and have one item which cannot be misplaced or stolen representing them all. As for combining all the items onto one device...
http://www.kttc.com/News/index.php?ID=11593 - iCache is one such new device... the next logical step would be to implant it and IMO the only thing holding this back is the resistance from those who believe this route is a fulfilment of the prophecy in Revelation... there are still many who believe this in prominent places... take them out of the equasion and you have an overnight change...
Having done work for a cash in transit firm, I can assure you that there are many people at your bank who would absolutely welcome such a cashless solution... cash is expensive, especially in SA... where it costs more than money, but people's lives and livelyhood...

[Syndyre]

And the fact that it looks more feasable as time goes on may be an opinion, but honestly, do you think it's less feasable now to have a bio chip implanted that 100 years ago?

Clearly technologically its more feasible now than 100 years ago but then other technologies e.g. biometric scanning have also advanced as an alternative.


iCache is one such new device... the next logical step would be to implant it and IMO the only thing holding this back is the resistance from those who believe this route is a fulfilment of the prophecy in Revelation... there are still many who believe this in prominent places... take them out of the equasion and you have an overnight change...
Having done work for a cash in transit firm, I can assure you that there are many people at your bank who would absolutely welcome such a cashless solution... cash is expensive, especially in SA... where it costs more than money, but people's lives and livelyhood...

I think another major objection people would have is privacy, regardless of the 666 hype. Cash is to a degree anonymous, would people accept every transaction ever made being recorded directly to their name, even some of the more sordid ones? Would people accept such a chip containing either RFID or GPS technology allowing them to be tracked or scanned by government?

I honestly think if SA banks wanted to drastically reduce the amount of cash being used they could do it fairly simply with current technology. Improve their debit cards, reduce the charges on them and increase cash withdrawal charges. simple.

[Syndyre]

The way I understand it is that it's not the mark itself, but the fact that you would accept it without question means you accept the ways of the world and not God. The damage is done and it's irreversible. A lot of people are carrying the mark around with them as we speak. A physical mark will only be a confirmation of this.

How do a lot of people carry it around with them as we speak?

[mancombseepgood]

I think another major objection people would have is privacy, regardless of the 666 hype. Cash is to a degree anonymous, would people accept every transaction ever made being recorded directly to their name, even some of the more sordid ones? Would people accept such a chip containing either RFID or GPS technology allowing them to be tracked or scanned by government?

I honestly think if SA banks wanted to drastically reduce the amount of cash being used they could do it fairly simply with current technology. Improve their debit cards, reduce the charges on them and increase cash withdrawal charges. simple.
Yeah, as you say, people like to remain anonymous, but as you also point out, debit cards are already a big factor. My bank charges zero for debit card transactions and a fee for cash withdrawals. As for sordid transactions... well, I guess the formalisation of many previously illegal industries has sorted alot of that out. Many more things can be done with the visa or MC than before. Not sure about the RFID thing - at this stage, it is pretty much short range - i.e. you can't exactly be tracked from a satellite. But don't forget that your contract phone pretty much serves that purpose already... I agree to some extent with Promethius in that the real issue is in the heart of man - the physical manifestation is merely an outward action - but that's another debate altogether.

Another interesting angle to this debate is the bit of the scripture that addresses the beast vs the image of the beast...
"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads."
I have often imagined the image as being related to the world systems - you know how for example a president in a modern democratic society is little more than a pawn - unlike the monarchs in the old days... the whole "system" is so much bigger than him and apparently has a mind of it's own - it far outlives any one person and their own agenda or ideals. The same can be said of huge corporations and institutions... everyone is just one small part - right up to the CEO... the system is far bigger than they will ever be... the question is... who is in charge?

Some theories on the illuminati et all would be interesting here...

I found this fascinating, although I can't say I agree with it (or disagree) - I haven't had much time to think about it.
http://www.revelation-today.com/Image1.htm

[Prometheus]

don't know how much of you remeber the cpu MHz that was remapped to 667 to avoid any panic or
boy-cots ?
The 333 cpu runs at 333.33333333(repetitive)MHz and the 666 runs at 666.66666666MHz. 667 is therefor the correct designation showing that this is a misconception.

I would very well think that no one would want their child born on 6/6/2006 as you can just imagine the stigma such a child will face. The fear is therefor a very real one and very rational.

I think another major objection people would have is privacy, regardless of the 666 hype. Cash is to a degree anonymous, would people accept every transaction ever made being recorded directly to their name, even some of the more sordid ones? Would people accept such a chip containing either RFID or GPS technology allowing them to be tracked or scanned by government?
I think that in itself would be a major security risk. The whole population can then be controlled by just one person.

I honestly think if SA banks wanted to drastically reduce the amount of cash being used they could do it fairly simply with current technology. Improve their debit cards, reduce the charges on them and increase cash withdrawal charges. simple.
I think the cash charges are already too much. If they really wanted to they would reduce or eliminate debit charges but instead they try to make it more expensive. It's all greed.

[Prometheus]

How do a lot of people carry it around with them as we speak?
Like PiesangTee (Are you that Piesang?) stated there is also the Image of the Beast. I think this image is mainly money which most people rich and poor, small and great, free and slave today worship. Everything is done either in the name of money or for the sake of money. Also the system which is the laws, norms, what is regarded as debatable or not, and all that things seem to function as as "beast" with a mind of its own. - Have you ever seen a documentary where a herd of bucks will run away seemingly instantaneous as one? - The image of the beast is then only a reflection of that which is really in the mind and hearts of mankind. “ Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. ” I don't think counting someone's number takes much wisdom so we can safely assume there is a much deeper meaning to this.

A lot of people have lost all ability to think for themselves and would gladly accept the beast (system) onto their foreheads (in their heads). If the system says abortion is right they say it's right and if it's illegal they say it's illegal. They are simply puppets doing with their right hand (in the name of righteousness) what is actually the beast's work (they are marked on their right hand). If there is ever perhaps a physical mark it will only show what is alive in their hearts.

I find it funny that people can see revelation as metaphoric yet be overcome with fear when it comes to this part. If they don't think that a dragon really fell from the sky then why on earth would they think that nasty insect like creatures would appear on earth and people will be marked on their hands and heads. It's only logical that if revelation is metaphorical then those things are metaphors as well. I can only imagine the predicament John would have been in in 450AD not knowing what to make of stuff he saw in heaven (which would be alien even to us) and nuclear bombs so he resorts to creatures covered in eyes and stars falling from the sky.

[mancombseepgood]

Interesing viewpoint Promethius... some interesting points.
Yeah - I would imagine that John would have written things as he saw them... that's not to say he understood in his mind exactly what it all meant, - and how much of it was written for the past present or future...

[Nanfeishen]

Here is an interesting and rather amusing story of the "Mark of the Beast", and a certain gentleman: :D

http://www.bushisantichrist.com/

[Electrra]

i remember this from a footnote i actually read in one of the versions of the bible:


A newly discovered fragment of the oldest surviving copy of the New Testament indicates that, as far as the Antichrist goes, theologians, scholars, heavy metal groups, and television evangelists have got the wrong number. Instead of 666, it's actually the far less ominous 616.

The new fragment from the Book of Revelation, written in ancient Greek and dating from the late third century, is part of a hoard of previously unintelligible manuscripts discovered in historic dumps outside Oxyrhynchus in Egypt. Now a team of expert classicists, using new photographic techniques, are finally deciphering the original writing.

Professor David Parker, Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism and Paleography at the University of Birmingham, thinks that 616, although less memorable than 666, is the original. He said: "This is an example of gematria, where numbers are based on the numerical values of letters in people's names. Early Christians would use numbers to hide the identity of people who they were attacking: 616 refers to the Emperor Caligula."

http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/skepticism/616666.html
or from a christian site: http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/05-10-05.asp

The implications are plain.

[Claymore]

I would very well think that no one would want their child born on 6/6/2006 as you can just imagine the stigma such a child will face. The fear is therefor a very real one and very rational.

Stigma? Only among the impressionable.

If I had had a son born on that date, I would have been terribly tempted to name him "Damien".

(As an aside: Jerry Goldsmith's score for the original "Omen" movie was absolutely brilliant (and he deserved won an Oscar for it). The track "Ave Satani" sounds like a religious hymn, but with deep, chilling undertones).

[mancombseepgood]

i remember this from a footnote i actually read in one of the versions of the bible:



http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/skepticism/616666.html
or from a christian site: http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/05-10-05.asp

The implications are plain.

So where does Caligula fit in to the whole thing? The mark / buy or sell / etc.

[Syndyre]

Yeah, as you say, people like to remain anonymous, but as you also point out, debit cards are already a big factor. My bank charges zero for debit card transactions and a fee for cash withdrawals. As for sordid transactions... well, I guess the formalisation of many previously illegal industries has sorted alot of that out. Many more things can be done with the visa or MC than before. Not sure about the RFID thing - at this stage, it is pretty much short range - i.e. you can't exactly be tracked from a satellite. But don't forget that your contract phone pretty much serves that purpose already... I agree to some extent with Promethius in that the real issue is in the heart of man - the physical manifestation is merely an outward action - but that's another debate altogether.

Another interesting angle to this debate is the bit of the scripture that addresses the beast vs the image of the beast...
"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads."
I have often imagined the image as being related to the world systems - you know how for example a president in a modern democratic society is little more than a pawn - unlike the monarchs in the old days... the whole "system" is so much bigger than him and apparently has a mind of it's own - it far outlives any one person and their own agenda or ideals. The same can be said of huge corporations and institutions... everyone is just one small part - right up to the CEO... the system is far bigger than they will ever be... the question is... who is in charge?

Some theories on the illuminati et all would be interesting here...

I found this fascinating, although I can't say I agree with it (or disagree) - I haven't had much time to think about it.
http://www.revelation-today.com/Image1.htm

Yeah RFID was just an example, obviously future incarnations of technology will be more powerful etc. I still think the major issues with any new system like this will be privacy/Big Brother concerns rather than religious.

[Turiko]

What about UPC/EAN Barcodes... is the number 666 encoded into them?
Some say yes, others no, below is an interesting article with references to various sources apparently including the original developer of the UPC BC...

interesting read... (http://www.av1611.org/666/barcode.html)

In 1999 I reverse engineered most barcode symbologies as part of a research project... I fail to see how the width modulation of a black stripe has got "666" encoded into it. I couldn't find anything

[alloytoo]

The danger with this PT, is that whenever a number like 666 appears it immediately evokes all sorts of religious responses based on the book of Revelation. Revelation itself is tremendously complex and needs to really be studied in the original text to be properly understood.

I have had a discussion with a Pastor who could read Greek and Hebrew and he always warned against reading the 666 literally as a mark.

In Heinlein's novel "Number OF The Beast" he explains it as 6 to the 6th power to the 6th Power

[mancombseepgood]

In 1999 I reverse engineered most barcode symbologies as part of a research project... I fail to see how the width modulation of a black stripe has got "666" encoded into it. I couldn't find anything

I believe it isn't actually the number 6 itself - i.e when scanned by the computer, but if you look at how the number 6 is made up - on the right hand side of an EAN barcode - it is basically two thin stripes - the same as the ones used in the control stripes (left, middle and right).
The number 6 on the left hand side is simply the negative of this.
So... visibly the number 6 on an EAN barcode resembles stripes on the left, middle and right (I think they are called control stripes)...

It's like hiding a message in an image if you will. Of course this is all speculation and interesting reading - take from it what you will.
http://i34.tinypic.com/minr53.gif
http://barcodeprinting.3sindustries.com/prnimages/barcode_artwork1.gif
http://i38.tinypic.com/2us97gg.gif

[agerbon]

You guys are silly, lol.

Prophecies to become real need to be fulfilled, let me regress and explain.

The question is how it gets fulfilled.

Humor me - Lets say I have read revelations! I some how move our currency from being physical currency to being a digital currency, then I propose chips to be installed/? on peoples arms and anyone who doesn't have them won't be able to buy anything.

Ok now what you have to remember is I read revelations, and what you have to think about is: Was the guy that wrote revelations seeing the future or was it me that took the story and made it real?

There is no such thing has prophecies only people who embrace them and make them real.

PS. You got to excuse me, am a bit drunk tonight;) I might of not explained too well.(bloody work functions)

[pos(t)er]

Indeed!I'll take the liberty of condensing all of that into:Self -fulfilling prophecy.

[agerbon]

Indeed!I'll take the liberty of condensing all of that into:Self -fulfilling prophecy.

lol I was in the mood to type...;)

[Krypto]

Like PiesangTee (Are you that Piesang?) stated there is also the Image of the Beast. I think this image is mainly money which most people rich and poor, small and great, free and slave today worship. Everything is done either in the name of money or for the sake of money. Also the system which is the laws, norms, what is regarded as debatable or not, and all that things seem to function as as "beast" with a mind of its own. - Have you ever seen a documentary where a herd of bucks will run away seemingly instantaneous as one? - The image of the beast is then only a reflection of that which is really in the mind and hearts of mankind. “ Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. ” I don't think counting someone's number takes much wisdom so we can safely assume there is a much deeper meaning to this.

A lot of people have lost all ability to think for themselves and would gladly accept the beast (system) onto their foreheads (in their heads). If the system says abortion is right they say it's right and if it's illegal they say it's illegal. They are simply puppets doing with their right hand (in the name of righteousness) what is actually the beast's work (they are marked on their right hand). If there is ever perhaps a physical mark it will only show what is alive in their hearts.

I find it funny that people can see revelation as metaphoric yet be overcome with fear when it comes to this part. If they don't think that a dragon really fell from the sky then why on earth would they think that nasty insect like creatures would appear on earth and people will be marked on their hands and heads. It's only logical that if revelation is metaphorical then those things are metaphors as well. I can only imagine the predicament John would have been in in 450AD not knowing what to make of stuff he saw in heaven (which would be alien even to us) and nuclear bombs so he resorts to creatures covered in eyes and stars falling from the sky.

I totally agree with you, the mark has less to do with a physical mark and it can be easily avoided by the antichrist as that would give away the game, so to say:). And, as you put it, why should that be taken literally when so much of the bible is metaphoric?

As with all the "clues" with 666 I assure you that you can find just as much with any random number so that could also mean something other than the number itself.

But if the prophecy is all/mostly metaphoric (which is most likely) then this is a problem as it can fit a lot of situations and quite a number of different time frames. But this is characteristic of all prophecies which makes their credibility(if any) highly questionable, a simple example would be horoscopes.

[Voicy]

I believe it isn't actually the number 6 itself - i.e when scanned by the computer, but if you look at how the number 6 is made up - on the right hand side of an EAN barcode - it is basically two thin stripes - the same as the ones used in the control stripes (left, middle and right).
The number 6 on the left hand side is simply the negative of this.
So... visibly the number 6 on an EAN barcode resembles stripes on the left, middle and right (I think they are called control stripes)...

It's like hiding a message in an image if you will. Of course this is all speculation and interesting reading - take from it what you will.
http://i34.tinypic.com/minr53.gif
http://barcodeprinting.3sindustries.com/prnimages/barcode_artwork1.gif
http://i38.tinypic.com/2us97gg.gif

In most conspiracy theories the most convicting objects are hidden in plain sight.

[slowcheetah]

If I was the Anti-Christ I would prohibit Chistians from getting the mark of the beast. That would make them want it even more :D

Carry on soldiers!

[daveza]

The good old Book of Revelations again.

Amazing how so many know exactly what it means - which is completely different to what the next guy knows it means.

Really, 666, the antichrist, mark of the beast, apocalypse, other nasty creatures and doom and gloom.

All sounds rather like a bad sci-fi novel or Tolkien deleted scenes.

And it of course all relevant to the present time - just as it was all relevant to the present time in 1650, or 1729, or....

[Deenem]

In 1999 I reverse engineered most barcode symbologies as part of a research project... I fail to see how the width modulation of a black stripe has got "666" encoded into it. I couldn't find anything

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/666_in_barcodes.htm

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/666_in_barcodes_files/USP_666_identified.jpg

It's definately there. The three marker bars; one on each edge and one in the middle are the same as bars for the number 6. ie. 2 thin lines

[pos(t)er]

The good old Book of Revelations again.

Amazing how so many know exactly what it means - which is completely different to what the next guy knows it means.

Really, 666, the antichrist, mark of the beast, apocalypse, other nasty creatures and doom and gloom.

All sounds rather like a bad sci-fi novel or Tolkien deleted scenes.

And it of course all relevant to the present time - just as it was all relevant to the present time in 1650, or 1729, or....

Exactly! Guys like Paul(or one of those twelve), were expecting the end times about 50 years after Jesus's death, preparing his church for the end times.

[mancombseepgood]

IMO the end times in that context prolly refers to the time AD. As far as expecting it all to end, you can be guaranteed that FOR YOU it will end within your lifetime... it's been like that for as long as I know. As for knocking people with opinions (daveza) that's just funny since you obviously have one youself ;)

Besides, I don't recall anyone saying this is fact or that is fact... feel free to quote.

[nihilist]

Someone once said that if you go around looking for numbers, you will find them everywhere.

Anyway, 666 doesn't mean it's the mark of the beast or that it's the devils work or that anything is related to the text in Revelations.


http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/666_in_barcodes.htm

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/666_in_barcodes_files/USP_666_identified.jpg

It's definately there. The three marker bars; one on each edge and one in the middle are the same as bars for the number 6. ie. 2 thin lines

[mancombseepgood]

Someone once said that if you go around looking for numbers, you will find them everywhere.

Anyway, 666 doesn't mean it's the mark of the beast or that it's the devils work or that anything is related to the text in Revelations.

666 is just a number and of course if you don't believe in God or follow Christ then prolly the whole bible will seem meaningless to you... to those who believe, these things are signs... but the book is fairly clear on the mark and the number and the fact that at some point in time having / not having the mark affects being able to buy or sell - i.e. trade... pretty interesting coincidences. I don't read too much into anything because it's easy to get carried away, but, if you look through the coincidences and references to hades, hell, etc from top chip makers etc, it's pretty interesting IMO.

i wasn't intending this to be a thread about 'this is or this isnt' - rather speculation and interesting debate.

[nihilist]

Well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_of_the_beast

It could be 616, or 665, too :)

[agerbon]

666 is just a number and of course if you don't believe in God or follow Christ then prolly the whole bible will seem meaningless to you... to those who believe, these things are signs... but the book is fairly clear on the mark and the number and the fact that at some point in time having / not having the mark affects being able to buy or sell - i.e. trade... pretty interesting coincidences. I don't read too much into anything because it's easy to get carried away, but, if you look through the coincidences and references to hades, hell, etc from top chip makers etc, it's pretty interesting IMO.

i wasn't intending this to be a thread about 'this is or this isnt' - rather speculation and interesting debate.

That is exactly the problem mate, a lot of people will think it's a sign and that is dangerous because apparently its one that indicates the end of times. I hate to think of people going around thinking the end is soon, waiting for rapture and crap like that.

Bible doesn't hold one (prophecy/future prediction) in my opinion. I tried to explain this in an earlier post why that is. But will say it again if a prophecy is known by everyone and someone makes that prophecy real. It means whoever wrote down the prophecy didn't write about the future but merely gave instructions.

It would be something like this for example - I say that in 25 July 2020 the president of Zimbabwe will be assassinated...some fool in the future would read this prophecy/prediction and act on it, and actually kill the president.

Now did I really predict anything? Nope I just encouraged some fool in the future who looked too much into this stupid prediction.

My point is that there is a lot of radical Christians around, all waiting for rapture to occur. What makes you think that these fools wouldn't take the prophecies into their own hands (trying to make it happen sooner?). Their biggest hero (Jesus) did the same, all his missions were to try and prove he was the messiah.

How did he do that?

That is right he went around fulfilling prophecies (that was his all mission)! The problem is he knew about them already. (He even admitted this to his disciples, numerous times) Now the question is did any of these fools actually predict any future events?

Hell no, Jesus only followed the instructions. Just like some fool will make these signs become real.

No one has ever predicted the future. It doesn't necessarily mean they didn't affect it.

[mancombseepgood]

That is exactly the problem mate, a lot of people will think it's a sign and that is dangerous because apparently its one that indicates the end of times. I hate to think of people going around thinking the end is soon, waiting for rapture and crap like that.

Bible doesn't hold one (prophecy/future prediction) in my opinion. I tried to explain this in an earlier post why that is. But will say it again if a prophecy is known by everyone and someone makes that prophecy real. It means whoever wrote down the prophecy didn't write about the future but merely gave instructions.

It would be something like this for example - I say that in 25 July 2020 the president of Zimbabwe will be assassinated...some fool in the future would read this prophecy/prediction and act on it, and actually kill the president.

Now did I really predict anything? Nope I just encouraged some fool in the future who looked too much into this stupid prediction.

My point is that there is a lot of radical Christians around, all waiting for rapture to occur. What makes you think that these fools wouldn't take the prophecies into their own hands (trying to make it happen sooner?). Their biggest hero (Jesus) did the same, all his missions were to try and prove he was the messiah.

How did he do that?

That is right he went around fulfilling prophecies (that was his all mission)! The problem is he knew about them already. (He even admitted this to his disciples, numerous times) Now the question is did any of these fools actually predict any future events?

Hell no, Jesus only followed the instructions. Just like some fool will make these signs become real.

No one has ever predicted the future. It doesn't necessarily mean they didn't affect it.

You are never going to stop daft people from doing daft things but stating that all prophesy is just that should at least be covered with a disclaimer that it is your opinion, otherwise you look like a nutty scientist yourself lol... It's like telling your kids not to do sport because steroids suck. Hows about your proof that no-one ever predicted the future? You seriously don't believe you actually know it all? Or do you? Lets hear.

[noxibox]

Hows about your proof that no-one ever predicted the future? You seriously don't believe you actually know it all? Or do you? Lets hear.
Not his responsibility. To date no-one has been able to point to a single Bible prophecy that came true. In all cases a lot of handwaving and massaging is required to make vague stories appear to match some historical event. By the same method Nostradamus is also made to appear accurate.

[Deenem]

Someone once said that if you go around looking for numbers, you will find them everywhere.

Anyway, 666 doesn't mean it's the mark of the beast or that it's the devils work or that anything is related to the text in Revelations.

I'm not drawing any conclusions, just pointing out the fact that that if you look at any bardcode the two thin parralel lines representing a 6 appear three times. One on either side and one in the middle of the barcode.

I'll leave it up to everyone else to draw their own conclusions.

[mancombseepgood]

Not his responsibility. To date no-one has been able to point to a single Bible prophecy that came true. In all cases a lot of handwaving and massaging is required to make vague stories appear to match some historical event. By the same method Nostradamus is also made to appear accurate.

Responsibility is a funny word to use in that context fox in sox...
Simply put - if you make a claim, then surely you should be able to back it up - if not, then I guess you are not going to be taken credibly... common sense.

[mancombseepgood]

I'm not drawing any conclusions, just pointing out the fact that that if you look at any bardcode the two thin parralel lines representing a 6 appear three times. One on either side and one in the middle of the barcode.

I'll leave it up to everyone else to draw their own conclusions.

+1 Deneem - that seems to be the one thing alot of people here are missing.

[agerbon]

You are never going to stop daft people from doing daft things but stating that all prophesy is just that should at least be covered with a disclaimer that it is your opinion, otherwise you look like a nutty scientist yourself lol... It's like telling your kids not to do sport because steroids suck. Hows about your proof that no-one ever predicted the future? You seriously don't believe you actually know it all? Or do you? Lets hear.

"Bible doesn't hold one (prophecy/future prediction) in my opinion."

Quoted myself, read the post again ;)

Proof is not needed though, if you understood what I said in the post you wouldn't of asked me for proof. All I pointed out was that these predictions are well known by the people and if one person acts on them after he has read them, that would mean who ever wrote them didn't see the future. All he did was influence the reader.

[noxibox]

Simply put - if you make a claim, then surely you should be able to back it up
The Bible is a work of fiction. Anyone who wishes to contend otherwise must demonstrate it is fact.

[pos(t)er]

As with everything, conclusions should be drawn by each individual-however, as we see with Islam, a call is being made by eminent Muslims to bring it to the attention of radicals that their interpretation of the Qu'ran is incorrect and dangerous.

[mancombseepgood]

The Bible is a work of fiction.

Nope... you made the statement and you have to back up your statement...
Actually you don't have to do anything, but don't expect to be taken seriously.

[mancombseepgood]

As with everything, conclusions should be drawn by each individual.

Agreed.

[mancombseepgood]

"Bible doesn't hold one (prophecy/future prediction) in my opinion."

Quoted myself, read the post again ;)


True - my apoplogies - I didn't see that... ;)

[pos(t)er]

OK Brad, but heed the rest of my post as well, please.

[noxibox]

My point is that there is a lot of radical Christians around, all waiting for rapture to occur. What makes you think that these fools wouldn't take the prophecies into their own hands (trying to make it happen sooner?).
There are fools who do wish to do that. Even though it's actually inconsistent with their belief system.


That is right he went around fulfilling prophecies (that was his all mission)! The problem is he knew about them already. (He even admitted this to his disciples, numerous times)
The evidence is that Jesus did not fulfill prophesies, but rather one of the writers of the Bible trawled the Old Testament books and retrofitted these to Jesus. Assuming that he even existed and is not a variation on a common myth.


Bible doesn't hold one (prophecy/future prediction) in my opinion. I tried to explain this in an earlier post why that is. But will say it again if a prophecy is known by everyone and someone makes that prophecy real. It means whoever wrote down the prophecy didn't write about the future but merely gave instructions.
You're right, but it isn't even necessary to deal with it that way. The simple fact is that there aren't even any historical events we can point to and show they were predicted in the Bible. Not without a lot of handwaving and serious torture of the text.

[mancombseepgood]

OK Brad, but heed the rest of my post as well, please.

I aint muslim ;)

And I don't want to turn this thread into anything more than an interesting discussion about these signs - whether you believe it or not... it is a thread of INTEREST and OPINION.

[pos(t)er]

Apply that to this-some opinions may be dangerous.

Something like this may very well lead to paranoia and fear.

[mancombseepgood]

Apply that to this-some opinions may be dangerous.

Something like this may very well lead to paranoia and fear.

And it won't be the first thing to do so, but if you're suggesting keeping you opinion to yourself because it can be misunderstood and can incite people to paranoia or fear then by all means... in fact why not have a go in the current affairs thread since the media is alot better at that game? Just be careful what you say - you never know how it is going to be interpreted.

[pos(t)er]

I'm not entirely sure i get what u just said, but i'll just finish off by saying:

People taking something like this literally, have the potential of being dangerous, especially if it's a politician.

[agerbon]

I'm not entirely sure i get what u just said, but i'll just finish off by saying:

People taking something like this literally, have the potential of being dangerous, especially if it's a politician.

Exactly!

[mancombseepgood]

I'm not sure how, but my feeling is you have more chance of a politician taking you seriously. ;)

[Reptilian]

Dr. Sanders was against the use of the lithium battery because it was known that if it were to break the lithium would cause a GRIEVOUS BOIL or sore and cause much agony to the host."And the first went and poured out his vial upon the earth, and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image." Revelation 16:2.

- just a random note: there is much better battery technology than lithium, and if this were to happen, we would use better tech.

[mancombseepgood]

- just a random note: there is much better battery technology than lithium, and if this were to happen, we would use better tech.

Yep - that article is older.

[Tpex]

intresting about people talking about prophicy being made true by radical "people" but the main prophicy about the antichrist leads me to think that this antichrist would be very charismatic and i genaral to perfect to be human

[macPhallus]

Hell boet, you are replying to a thread that ended months ago :eek:

[Tpex]

oh... ok :( its looked like a realy intrestin discusion, are you realy banned?