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ghoti
08-02-2007, 01:00 PM
Which is better, a comfortable lie or a harsh truth? IE. You know you do not know the truth, but are comfortable lie.

Rex Regis
08-02-2007, 01:02 PM
Which is better, a comfortable lie or a harsh truth? IE. You know you do not know the truth, but are comfortable lie.

Now that would depend on what I would have to lie or tell the truth about!

ghoti
08-02-2007, 01:03 PM
Such is the nature of philosophical discussion. The question stands as it is for now.

The Cosmos
08-02-2007, 01:03 PM
Harsh truth ! Defintely. At least the conscience will be clear ! ;)

stix
08-02-2007, 01:05 PM
Truth - always.

ghoti
08-02-2007, 01:06 PM
Harsh truth ! Defintely. At least the conscience will be clear ! ;)

Ok, lets put this in a perspective then. Let me give you an example truth and lie. Harsh truth, "people are dying daily in Sudan", the comfortable lie, "We can do nothing about it".

Rex Regis
08-02-2007, 01:10 PM
Without any elaboration on what i would have to lie about i would have to say I would go with the harsh truth!

The Cosmos
08-02-2007, 01:11 PM
Well, if you can't do anything about it, then you can't. Reality is harsh. Life is hard. Accept it.

ghoti
08-02-2007, 01:11 PM
I just thought I would mention:

Truth does not always equal good.

and

Lie does not always equal bad.

Rex Regis
08-02-2007, 01:15 PM
I just thought I would mention:

Truth does not always equal good.

and

Lie does not always equal bad.

that is true, but the truth is easier to remember

Leitmotif
08-02-2007, 01:19 PM
Always the truth.

dotVIBE
08-02-2007, 01:20 PM
Which is better, a comfortable lie or a harsh truth? IE. You know you do not know the truth, but are comfortable lie.

Interesting one. I don't believe you can generalise. It would depend on the situation.

The Cosmos
08-02-2007, 01:30 PM
I just thought I would mention:

Truth does not always equal good.

and

Lie does not always equal bad.

Well i guess if you put it that way. Then there is some merit. Crime is rampant in the country. It's the truth, but not good.

I still have to find a lie that is not bad. :confused:, unless you are in a situation of life and death and you lie to save yourself.

dotVIBE
08-02-2007, 01:41 PM
How about: your wife/gf is a couple of k's overweight and is wearing her favourite jeans. She asks you -do I look fat in these pants?

Then you LIE!!! and you keep lying if you know what's good for you :D

Rex Regis
08-02-2007, 01:42 PM
How about: your wife/gf is a couple of k's overweight and is wearing her favourite jeans. She asks you -do Il look fat in these pants?

Then you LIE!!! and you keep lying if you know what's good for you :D

But that just comes back to the life or death situation!

Mr TB
08-02-2007, 01:44 PM
Ok, lets put this in a perspective then. Let me give you an example truth and lie. Harsh truth, "people are dying daily in Sudan", the comfortable lie, "We can do nothing about it".

Harsh truth, they will die in anycase... you can not prevent death it is an absolute...
You can not do anything about it, whether it happens now or in ten years time...
It is therefore not a comfortable lie as proposed by you it can't be prevented...

The Cosmos
08-02-2007, 01:45 PM
How about: your wife/gf is a couple of k's overweight and is wearing her favourite jeans. She asks you -do I look fat in these pants?

Then you LIE!!! and you keep lying if you know what's good for you :D

Why do women ask questions if they know the answer ? :D :confused:

Rex Regis
08-02-2007, 01:46 PM
Why do women ask questions if they know the answer ? :D :confused:

For affirmation to the negative! Its a woman thing, dont try to understand ;)

The Cosmos
08-02-2007, 01:48 PM
Thanks for the advice :D

Electrra
08-02-2007, 02:32 PM
i think in everyday practise it is probably better to go with the harsh truth.
you may lose a few disposible friends but those that stick around will learn to trust you faster.
you also do not have to phrase the truth in a harsh way and so can tell the truth without having to resort to a lie to protect the person's ego.
e.g. Q: do i look fat in these jeans? A: The skirt is more flattering or that cut does not compliment you. These, under the right circumstances (e.g. the availability of other clothes) are not lies.
e.g. Q: Do you think I am a bitch? A: I have seen you acting bitchy before.

Of course, there are unique situations in which lying is preferable. Those are the ones in which the lie will save lives.

ghoti
08-02-2007, 02:33 PM
Harsh truth, they will die in anycase... you can not prevent death it is an absolute...
You can not do anything about it, whether it happens now or in ten years time...
It is therefore not a comfortable lie as proposed by you it can't be prevented...

Please stay out of this thread. Anyone can do something about it, its just easier not to. It only takes one person to change the world.

Electrra
08-02-2007, 02:35 PM
Why do women ask questions if they know the answer ? :D :confused:

Three reasons:

1. They want an answer that is different to the one they know.
e.g. Tell me I look beautiful.
2. They are unsure as to whether the answer they know is correct or not.
e.g. Maybe I am just freaking out and my ass actually looks fine.
3. They are testing you.
Usually this is employed in a fight to determine just how honest and trustworthy the person is being. So it is like laying a trap and waiting to see if you walk into it or not.

ghoti
08-02-2007, 02:37 PM
i think in everyday practise it is probably better to go with the harsh truth.
you may lose a few disposible friends but those that stick around will learn to trust you faster.
you also do not have to phrase the truth in a harsh way and so can tell the truth without having to resort to a lie to protect the person's ego.
e.g. Q: do i look fat in these jeans? A: The skirt is more flattering or that cut does not compliment you. These, under the right circumstances (e.g. the availability of other clothes) are not lies.
e.g. Q: Do you think I am a bitch? A: I have seen you acting bitchy before.

Of course, there are unique situations in which lying is preferable. Those are the ones in which the lie will save lives.

Lets make it life and death as suggested earlier on. A female friend close to you is about to die of cancer in hospital, you know her mate is cheating on her. She asks you what you think... what do you do? Do you show compassion and lie or do you tell her the truth and break her before she dies?

JK8
08-02-2007, 02:42 PM
Ok so I dont lie about anything.

BUT when someone who is respected asks me a question eg: about a type of car etc, my responce will be honest, and if its a Jap car which I dont like, ill say so coz thats the truth but then the person feels offended, but if id lie and said woow thats a beautiful car lalalalaalal.... Id be lying.:rolleyes: and they would be happy...:confused: :rolleyes:

Nocturnity
08-02-2007, 02:47 PM
How about: your wife/gf is a couple of k's overweight and is wearing her favourite jeans. She asks you -do I look fat in these pants?

Harsh truth. "Yes."

If you don't let her know if she asks you, then it'll eventually get worse and worse.

The Cosmos
08-02-2007, 03:09 PM
Life is so unfair ! :D

ghoti
08-02-2007, 03:17 PM
Life is so unfair ! :D

Death is more unfair :D

AcidRaZor
08-02-2007, 03:24 PM
Lets make it life and death as suggested earlier on. A female friend close to you is about to die of cancer in hospital, you know her mate is cheating on her. She asks you what you think... what do you do? Do you show compassion and lie or do you tell her the truth and break her before she dies?

Truth all the way. They'll die happier knowing that they kicked that son of a bitch out of their lives than living a lie.

ghoti
08-02-2007, 03:27 PM
Truth all the way. They'll die happier knowing that they kicked that son of a bitch out of their lives than living a lie.

Good point.

Xarog
08-02-2007, 04:24 PM
I'd rather have the harsh truth, too.

nthdimension
08-02-2007, 05:00 PM
Truth all the way. They'll die happier knowing that they kicked that son of a bitch out of their lives than living a lie.
That's a drastic assumption. If there is no chance they'd find out before they die, then there is no point telling them, putting them through further strain and potentially shortening their life further. The decision should be based on the person. What she says will give indications as to whether she has strong suspicions. And your knowledge of the person will tell you whether she is always just generally wondering if every partner is faithful.

Mr TB
08-02-2007, 06:12 PM
Lets make it life and death as suggested earlier on. A female friend close to you is about to die of cancer in hospital, you know her mate is cheating on her. She asks you what you think... what do you do? Do you show compassion and lie or do you tell her the truth and break her before she dies?

To tell the truth is a test of your character, she may even know you lie and your compassion is fake in anycase you should have told her the bastard is cheating even before she got cancer... If he started cheating while she had cancer she knows and is testing you... she will lose respect for you if you lie.

Lastly you will live with the guilt lying to your close friend on her death bed, lying is not showing compassion....

noxibox
08-02-2007, 06:32 PM
Lastly you will live with the guilt lying to your close friend
Your own guilt is the worst excuse to hurt someone with the truth. It is simply selfishness masquerading as a devotion to honesty.

ToxicBunny
08-02-2007, 06:34 PM
I agree with noxibox. As far as I'm concerned its not an easy question to answer, each situation must be judged on its own merits, and there are times when "lying" is better than telling the truth.

Xarog
08-02-2007, 06:41 PM
Your own guilt is the worst excuse to hurt someone with the truth. It is simply selfishness masquerading as a devotion to honesty.

I'd feel more guilty about telling the woman than not telling her to be honest.

Mr TB
08-02-2007, 06:45 PM
Your own guilt is the worst excuse to hurt someone with the truth. It is simply selfishness masquerading as a devotion to honesty.

Just as a selfish person expect from you to lie...
So then the assumption is that your friend is selfish, expecting from you to lie not bothered about your life?... You have the wrong definition concerning true friendship pappie...

texo
08-02-2007, 06:47 PM
Cr@p. Another thread has been thoroughly dodo'd.
Do you have to do this in every thread you post in?

ToxicBunny
08-02-2007, 06:47 PM
Douwdouw : read the post again... its SELFISH of the person to tell someone on their deathbed something that will make their last days alot worse..

True friendship is a very complicated beast.. and it involves lying and telling the truth.. but more importantly, it involves caring about the other person...

Mr TB
08-02-2007, 06:53 PM
I'd feel more guilty about telling the woman than not telling her to be honest.

Did she ask you straightforward...? Well if you have reall compassion with your friend you will be able to tell her and she will not be broken as everyone is assuming... The compassion you have will fill that gap and make her happy...

If she don't ask there is not any reason to speak up, the question asked needs an honest answer...

Let me go further, my friend and i will meet in heaven(i know it does not fit your theories) she will not be impressed if i lied...

Xarog
08-02-2007, 06:58 PM
Cr@p. Another thread has been thoroughly dodo'd.

No it hasn't.


Let me go further, my friend and i will meet in heaven(i know it does not fit your theories) she will not be impressed if i lied...
But if you lied to her she could just as easily be understanding about it and assume that you wanted to protect her from emotional harm.

ToxicBunny
08-02-2007, 06:58 PM
douwdouw : please.. this is not a religious debate, so avoid bringing that into it.. it is unnecessary.

From my own point of view, if i was about to die of cancer, and my "friend" decided to tell me my partner had been cheating on me... i'd be devastated, and it definately would make my last few days considerably worse than if i'd known... therefore I'd WANT them to lie to me even if they knew otherwise... my last few days are supposed to be happy... and I'd want my REAL friends to make sure that was the case, at all costs.

Mr TB
08-02-2007, 07:08 PM
Cr@p. Another thread has been thoroughly dodo'd.
Do you have to do this in every thread you post in?

I do not understand what you mean by "dodo'd", all that i know you used 2 extreme examples that is not really valid..

I also know that when i tried to use extreme examples in other threads to try and make a point they were quickly "tox'd", "neo'd", "nox'd", "nic'd" etc., although with a bit "savvy" it was not necessary for the mentioned to hi-jack the chat...

Extreme examples are therfore only acceptable if they can not be seen in a different way...

GamerGirl
08-02-2007, 07:14 PM
well i guess this proves we humans are so different.

in my eyes, we have been dying from the moment we were born... we don't know when it's going to happen, so I live my life as though every one is the last one. The fact that I had cancer would not change that attitude, in fact I think it would amplify it.

If I suspected my partner of cheating, I would ask a really good friend who I know would tell me the truth. I would appreciate my friend having the courage to tell me the truth.

I don't lie... used to... too many burnt fingers, so now its my policy never to tell lies, no matter how big or small.

Mr TB
08-02-2007, 07:31 PM
well i guess this proves we humans are so different.

in my eyes, we have been dying from the moment we were born... we don't know when it's going to happen, so I live my life as though every one is the last one. The fact that I had cancer would not change that attitude, in fact I think it would amplify it.

If I suspected my partner of cheating, I would ask a really good friend who I know would tell me the truth. I would appreciate my friend having the courage to tell me the truth.

I don't lie... used to... too many burnt fingers, so now its my policy never to tell lies, no matter how big or small.

Yeah...maybe you gave us the answer, are our friendship at a level that when i ask you something or vice versa that you/i will be able to answer with compassion...

GamerGirl
08-02-2007, 07:40 PM
Yeah...maybe you gave us the answer, are our friendship at a level that when i ask you something or vice versa that you/i will be able to answer with compassion...

so is compassion lying?

Mr TB
08-02-2007, 07:44 PM
Yeah... lies concerns me not just because of it being a religious issue in my case but lies was mostly responsible for my father 22yrs back putting a 9 mil to his head and pull the trigger.

It shook me at that stage... yeah...that's why lies bother me ...

Mr TB
08-02-2007, 07:47 PM
so is compassion lying?
You as friend will make that decision, whether it is showing compassion to lie or not...

dotVIBE
08-02-2007, 07:53 PM
so is compassion lying?

Sometimes. If my friend in hospital only had a coupla days left, I wouldn't want them to spend it worrying about some filthy cheater. So I'd lie. And if I was ever in that situation, I'd hope my friends would care enough about me to lie to me.

I'd want to know the truth, but the truth wouldn't do me any good, now would it?

The Cosmos
08-02-2007, 10:13 PM
No it hasn't.


But if you lied to her she could just as easily be understanding about it and assume that you wanted to protect her from emotional harm.

That's no excuse. The truth is always better than a lie. Even she will understand that.

She will be glad you told her that.

Debbie
08-02-2007, 10:35 PM
Everyone says how committed they are to the truth but in reality we all lie a zillion times a day, mostly to ourselves.

ToxicBunny
08-02-2007, 11:11 PM
This is what intrigues me, everyone says they will do such and such, but to be honest, I have given the issue alot of thought during the course of this afternoon...
I would more than definately "lie" to my friend so that their last few days on earth are that much easier...

kilo39
10-02-2007, 09:20 PM
Hurt, lies only happen when we issue the words. If we don't issue the words there is no lie (or given hurt.) There are many ways to present the truth but a lie is always concrete.

Being truthful about lying is the truth; there are endless ways to avoid hurting someone. It is not our place to deliver hurt (by either lying or telling the truth.) There is individual truth (objective) and subjective truth. Individual truth is core truth (yes or no.) Subjective truth is based on perception (which itself could be based on a lie.)

Truth is the ultimate weapon (with all that it implies,) be gentle and careful when you wield it, somebody could always get hurt. But we are always truthful except when we absolutely have to lie (our lives depend on it.) Truth is always harsh, it is the real; so let's be careful how we deliver it (and to whom.)

Duty is a concept. What is our duty?

Kea
14-02-2007, 11:59 AM
All i know is that the most dangerous state is when you start believing your own lies!

Prometheus
25-02-2007, 04:05 PM
To tell the truth is a test of your character, she may even know you lie and your compassion is fake in anycase you should have told her the bastard is cheating even before she got cancer... If he started cheating while she had cancer she knows and is testing you... she will lose respect for you if you lie.

Lastly you will live with the guilt lying to your close friend on her death bed, lying is not showing compassion....
I agree

douwdouw : please.. this is not a religious debate, so avoid bringing that into it.. it is unnecessary.

From my own point of view, if i was about to die of cancer, and my "friend" decided to tell me my partner had been cheating on me... i'd be devastated, and it definately would make my last few days considerably worse than if i'd known... therefore I'd WANT them to lie to me even if they knew otherwise... my last few days are supposed to be happy... and I'd want my REAL friends to make sure that was the case, at all costs.
If I ask a question I expect an honest answer. Anything else is just selfishness to make it easier not to answer the question. Besides if someone asks such a question they must already have an idea and dealt with it on some level. Maybe they still have a will to change and in lying you are ensuring their last wish never get carried out.

so is compassion lying?
They are not mutually inclusive.

ToxicBunny
25-02-2007, 04:25 PM
Prometheus : When you're in the situation... u judge... I know what i'd want and tbh, i'd be happier in the last few days not knowing something like that..