Anybody using Prozac or Similar - No Jokes

[DarKWateR]

Anybody using Prozac/Lorien ....

How was it in the beginning...any side effects...how long did it last...still using it??

[supersunbird]

I used Lorien.

Caused dry mouth thoughout and what could be called mild panic attacks initially...

[DarKWateR]

I used Lorien.

Caused dry mouth thoughout and what could be called mild panic attacks initially...

I'm on day 3 now....nausea, stomach cramps, cant eat or sleep....this normal?

[noxibox]

It can take 7 days to settle down, but you may also have been started on a dose that is too high. If this persists for more than 7 days you should call your doctor and discuss reducing the dose until you acclimatise. Doctors often start people on doses of anti-depressants that are too high. Some people tolerate them better than others so it is hard for a doctor to know exactly what dose to use.

Not all anti-depressants work equally well on all people. There is quite a wide range available, unfortunately most are SSRIs. Thankfully the pharmaceutical companies do occasionally do real research and come up with drugs that have a different mechanism of action.

[twiga]

Hi there,

I have used various antidepressants in the past (zoloft, etc). And I would say the worst side effects last for roughly a month or so.

Symptoms I had:
Dry Mouth
Muscle spams <--- this one was the worst
Emotionally desentized <--- beware of this one, I effectively went into zombie mode not caring about anyone anything.

I eventually decided to stop using the drugs, went rough for about a month or two but haven't looked back since!

hth

-twiga

[DarKWateR]

It can take 7 days to settle down, but you may also have been started on a dose that is too high. If this persists for more than 7 days you should call your doctor and discuss reducing the dose until you acclimatise. Doctors often start people on doses of anti-depressants that are too high. Some people tolerate them better than others so it is hard for a doctor to know exactly what dose to use.

Not all anti-depressants work equally well on all people. There is quite a wide range available, unfortunately most are SSRIs. Thankfully the pharmaceutical companies do occasionally do real research and come up with drugs that have a different mechanism of action.

They gave me Lorien which as far as I understand is the generic for prozac..my emotions are mixed...but the side effects really suck..I just want to feel normal/healty again :( ... I only take half a tablet a day (20Mg tablet so only 10Mg a day)

[teraside]

How old are you? If you don't mind me asking ;)

[Dolby]

DarKWateR - could it not be the fiance issue causing those symptons? The fact that you gave your absolute everything, and *perhaps* weren't treated the same ? The fact she *may* have been toying with you and your feelings from reasonably early ? The fact that you were *possibly* one the last to know what was happening - and it was luck you found out ? The fact that you *probably* look like a fool ? I don't mean this in a nasty way - I'm simply being realistic.

I once had a breakup that caused the same issues ... I couldn't sleep, eat, concerntrate, felt ill etc etc In all honesty - even though it was a short period - it was a terrible time in my life ! It was only resolved 8 weeks later when I got back with her - and everything was perfect again. In fact I still get those 'symptons' when I sleep knowing things aren't 100% between us.

You get so used to the companionship, being able to speak to someone regarding issues, someone that you love and care for with everything, having another body in your bed ... and it's all snatched away in a few hours. Think about it ... I *may* have a point

[PostmanPot]

Don't anti-depressants mess you up more in the end? Has anyone benefitted significantly?

Why not just take a walk in nature instead? :)

[Alan]

Well I wouldn't touch anti depressants( at least SSRI's) with a ten foot barge poll.

When I was fourteen they put me on a small dose of Aropax because I used to over anaylize stuff and get worked up. It did help but within months I would get like a shocking sensation when I moved my eyes:eek: . For some reason it would happen over school holidays for about two weeks. After a year or two I started to get anxious about these damn episodes and the crazy doc upped the dose two or three times:mad: .

Tried that and it only got worse so I just said enough and just stopped taking it. Whoa talk about a ride. Nobody told me these things were addictive. **** withdrawl symtoms make everything ten times worse. Went on for over a month of hell and I thought it would never go away.

Finaly after a while it went. But a couple of months later I got sick. Nobody knew what was wrong with me. Had it for about two years where it fluctuated in intensity. Then a while later I got to "months to live stage":eek: . Still nobody knew what the hell was wrong.

Long story short I'm still here after fighting through it. Still not pleasant. Don't know if the second episode had anything to do with Aropax. I have my suspicions. Would never ever recommend anybody to touch that stuff. You just have to read other people's horror stories:sick: :(

[teraside]

I fully agree Alan, I was on 2 different antidepressants when I was 16, I also got that shock experience, but in my head. I had the worst side effects ever. Antidepressants just don't work, full stop, stop taking it.

I use something that should be much "stronger" that antidepressants, sure I have a few drawbacks and symptoms once in a while, but I have to take it lifelong, due to a nervous breakdown I had.

I sleep better, feel better and I can think straight ;)

[Xarog]

They gave me Lorien which as far as I understand is the generic for prozac..my emotions are mixed...but the side effects really suck..I just want to feel normal/healty again :( ... I only take half a tablet a day (20Mg tablet so only 10Mg a day)
To be honest, considering what's happened, you're supposed to feel sad. Taking drugs isn't going to make it better. Anti-depressants are *supposed* to be used for people who are depressed for no good reason, not people who are depressed for a very good reason.

[Alan]

The thing is I wasn't bad. Just a bloody trigger happy doctor. They think this stuff is like candy. Ruins peoples lives. :mad:

In my case it caused far more problems than cured. The whole you must be "normal" cr@p. In fact I actually didn't have any "problems" :rolleyes:

Until I took this stuff. :sick:

[Xarog]

The thing is I wasn't bad. Just a bloody trigger happy doctor. They think this stuff is like candy. Ruins peoples lives. :mad:

In my case it caused far more problems than cured. The whole you must be "normal" cr@p. In fact I actually didn't have any "problems" :rolleyes:

Until I took this stuff. :sick:
Wanted to do the same to me in primary school. I used to walk around class because I was nearly terminally bored. The teacher couldn't control me so next thing they wanted me on ritalin. Thankfully my parents said no.

[Juggy]

When I got divorced I found the best thing was close friends and a few good nights out. It took me the better part of 6 months to get over it but I'm fine now although many wouldn't agree;)

[noxibox]

Dry Mouth
Emotionally desentized <--- beware of this one, I effectively went into zombie mode not caring about anyone anything.
Dry mouth is very common, and often does not go away. Emotional desensitization happens in some people and to varying extents. A person zombiefied by one SSRI may not experience the same affect from another.

Personally I am opposed to SSRIs because they seem far more likely to deaden emotion or reduce people's range of emotion. Other types do not have this effect. Instead they are more likely to raise your base level without interfering with your range. On the other hand the FDA has suppressed the development, production and sale of anti-depressants that make people lively and energetic. Regulators don't seem to like stimulation in the population.


They gave me Lorien which as far as I understand is the generic for prozac..my emotions are mixed...but the side effects really suck..I just want to feel normal/healty again :( ... I only take half a tablet a day (20Mg tablet so only 10Mg a day)
Could still be too much for you. Anti-depressants can interfere with sleep and appetite. Some of your symptoms could be due to other things of course.

Different people react differently to them. All drugs have potential side-effects. Some unlucky people will get them all.

Personally I get results from beating the hell out of a punchbag.

[DarKWateR]

How old are you? If you don't mind me asking ;)

I'm 22


DarKWateR - could it not be the fiance issue causing those symptons? The fact that you gave your absolute everything, and *perhaps* weren't treated the same ? The fact she *may* have been toying with you and your feelings from reasonably early ? The fact that you were *possibly* one the last to know what was happening - and it was luck you found out ? The fact that you *probably* look like a fool ? I don't mean this in a nasty way - I'm simply being realistic.

I once had a breakup that caused the same issues ... I couldn't sleep, eat, concerntrate, felt ill etc etc In all honesty - even though it was a short period - it was a terrible time in my life ! It was only resolved 8 weeks later when I got back with her - and everything was perfect again. In fact I still get those 'symptons' when I sleep knowing things aren't 100% between us.

You get so used to the companionship, being able to speak to someone regarding issues, someone that you love and care for with everything, having another body in your bed ... and it's all snatched away in a few hours. Think about it ... I *may* have a point

I fully understand...but to make matter even worse I got the medication a day before I discovered the fiance issue... So that has basically just boosted the problem :'(

[dotVIBE]

@ Darkwater

Please, it is very important that you ignore the posts recommending that you stop taking anti depressants. You must fulfil a full course before a decision like that can be made. Trust your psychiatrist. If you don't, find a psychiatrist you do trust and listen to what he says.

Side effects are natural. It usually takes 2 weeks for it to get better. Some side effects never fully disapear.
It is important to realize that the discomfort of side effects are usually less important than the benefit you get from these pills.

[dotVIBE]

stick it out with the pills. Take it from someone who learned that the hard way. Trust your doctor, do what he/she says.

[Rex Regis]

Darkwater - I think Dot has the right idea, however I must say that antidepressants should not be used to solve emotional problems, it doenst help the pain go away, just numb it, the better option would to rather speak to someone like s psychiatrist to sort out the cause. Doctors tend to prescibe antideps way too easily, and the long term effects of being on them far outweigh the short term relief they might provide.

[DarKWateR]

stick it out with the pills. Take it from someone who learned that the hard way. Trust your doctor, do what he/she says.

Honest to god...this must be the worst week of my entire life

1.) I got sick
2.) Got very expensive medicine I can't afford
3.) My fiance cheated on me
4.) People are phoning me with threat calls (read my other thread)
5.) I feel even more sick
6.) My medicine is giving me heavy side effect
7.) She slept around and went for an AIDS test

What the hell did I do to deserve this...

Thanks to all for your help and support in both my threads

[teraside]

I'm 22
(

Me too! :D :p


stick it out with the pills. Take it from someone who learned that the hard way. Trust your doctor, do what he/she says.

It is hard for me to say he shouldn't take it, I used my antidepressant meds for 6 months and my side effects never went away, they were prescribed by a psychologist.

I'm not someone that would like to see you suffer DW, so let me rather say, if you can stick it out for 2 to 4 weeks and becomes better, stick with it for a while, but it wasn't that way with me, we are all individuals, so that's to be expected ;) :p

Cheer up man, life is much better than you think! :D

[dotVIBE]

You don't deserve this. Other people are making their problems yours. 2 weeks from now everything will look very different.

[DarKWateR]

Problem... I'm 1.92 Metres....and my weight is 68Kg...so yes I am heavy underweight...this medication has stopped me for eating

[Alan]

Well I trusted my doc and look what happend. :mad:

Anyway you seem to be in a very bad way. I'm not a doc but it seems to me you have a lot to lose if you can't pull yourself up. I suppose you might have to take a chance and go with the meds.


Still I can't bring myself around to recommending them.

[teraside]

Darkwater - I think Dot has the right idea, however I must say that antidepressants should not be used to solve emotional problems, it doenst help the pain go away, just numb it, the better option would to rather speak to someone like s psychiatrist to sort out the cause. Doctors tend to prescibe antideps way too easily, and the long term effects of being on them far outweigh the short term relief they might provide.

I agree with this post and with yours above Alan, I can't recommend them either ;)

[Xarog]

Problem... I'm 1.92 Metres....and my weight is 68Kg...so yes I am heavy underweight...this medication has stopped me for eating
Sounds like you need to develop a good case of munchies. :p

Perhaps there's a more natural mood enhancer you can experiment with?

(This post was written in jest. While nothing written in it is essentially untrue, I am not about to seriously recommend recreational drug use.)

[dotVIBE]

Problem... I'm 1.92 Metres....and my weight is 68Kg...so yes I am heavy underweight...this medication has stopped me for eating

That is a big problem. It is also one that is very easy to fix.

1. Go to psychiatrist.
2. Change prescription.
3. Get new pills.
4. Take pills and get better.

This is your life dude, DON'T MESS ABOUT!

[Nod]

From what I heard about prozac, it will cause sleeplessness. If you drink sleeping pills to sleep, that might cause depression, which in some cases, means that you will get stronger prozac, which causes a circle of drugs to counteract the effects of the previous one.

Try to get on a natural anti-depressant, as the side effect is not as bad.

[Xarog]

That is a big problem. It is also one that is very easy to fix.

1. Go to psychiatrist.
2. Change prescription.
3. Get new pills.
4. Take pills and get better.

This is your life dude, DON'T MESS ABOUT!
It's been, what, 4 days? There is no big dependency which is at risk of messing up the works if he stops taking the drugs.

And now I just remembered why I really don't like the thought of Prozac et. al. : It's the number of cases where merely depressed people become suicidal within a week or two of going on the drug.

[Alan]

(This post was written in jest. While nothing written in it is essentially untrue, I am not about to seriously recommend recreational drug use.)


I don't see much of a differance between the two. I'm sure the **** I was on would rival most recreational drugs for the "rides" and damage caused :rolleyes:

Maybe that's why I've never been interested in recreational drugs ;) . Been there done that. Well sort off. :D

Funny thing about the addictiveness. I never once thought about or considered going back on them during withdrawal. I've read about people unable to come off the stuff because they can't take the withrawals.

So they get stuck on drugs they don't want burdened with the side effects. Sound familiar?

Except of course these drugs were supposed to help them :mad:

[Rex Regis]

Dark I think you should find an alternative to medications, seriously this stuff messes with your brain in a massive way, you are pumping your body full of Serotonin and thats not natural. Do yourself a favour and go read up about the side effects of these meds, there are better ways of dealing with what you are going through, they might not be a easy as popping a pill but they are less dangerous.

[dotVIBE]

Sounds like you need to develop a good case of munchies. :p

Perhaps there's a more natural mood enhancer you can experiment with?

(This post was written in jest. While nothing written in it is essentially untrue, I am not about to seriously recommend recreational drug use.)

I know you jest, but take it from me, you cannot mix and match. This I had to learn the hard way too (why must it always be the hard way:rolleyes: )THC (maryjane) has a big effect on your serotonin receptors. These are the receptors that are stimulated by the anti depressants. You basically render your anti deps useless when toking from the tree of knowledge.

This is not worth it. Dagga is a very temporary fix for your state of mind. In the long term, you need to take your anti deps and stay away from THC if you are ever going to be healthy.

Please note: I have nothing against the good weed. But it does not mix with depression.

[Xarog]

Dark I think you should find an alternative to medications, seriously this stuff messes with your brain in a massive way, you are pumping your body full of Serotonin and thats not natural. Do yourself a favour and go read up about the side effects of these meds, there are better ways of dealing with what you are going through, they might not be a easy as popping a pill but they are less dangerous.

Yeah, maybe the myadsl members in CT would like to get together for a Braai with you in the spirit of keeping your spirits up. :)

[dotVIBE]

The problem here is that there are lots of people with differing opinions about what to do. The fact of the matter is that the only way forward for the person affected is for that person to seek PROFFESIONAL help. That would be a Psychiatrist and psychologist.

IF you are a bit down at the moment because of events you cannot control, you do not need to be on medication. That said, a pill a day for 4 weeks can hardly harm you. Best to be safe, don't ya think?

IF you are suffering from clinical depression, which can onset AT ANY TIME on ANYBODY, you need to be taking medication. No ifs, no buts. If you want to lead a life of any kind of quality at all, it is essential that you get on the right stuff as soon a as possible. How many years of your life are you willing to waste? I'm standing on 6 wasted years now, and i'm only 27. I hope you realise how serious this is.

[dotVIBE]

Yeah, maybe the myadsl members in CT would like to get together for a Braai with you in the spirit of keeping your spirits up. :)

Great idea, but one of the big effects of depression is social withdrawal. I doubt whether Dark is feeling up to hanging with a bunch of strangers. ;)

If he is, we can do it at my place:D

[DarKWateR]

Great idea, but one of the big effects of depression is social withdrawal. I doubt whether Dark is feeling up to hanging with a bunch of strangers. ;)

If he is, we can do it at my place:D

I don't even have a freakin car... :( ... like I explain to Rex in my other thread....don't really have a lot of friends...most work or don't really care.

[Rex Regis]

The problem here is that there are lots of people with differing opinions about what to do. The fact of the matter is that the only way forward for the person affected is for that person to seek PROFFESIONAL help. That would be a Psychiatrist and psychologist.

IF you are a bit down at the moment because of events you cannot control, you do not need to be on medication. That said, a pill a day for 4 weeks can hardly harm you. Best to be safe, don't ya think?

IF you are suffering from clinical depression, which can onset AT ANY TIME on ANYBODY, you need to be taking medication. No ifs, no buts. If you want to lead a life of any kind of quality at all, it is essential that you get on the right stuff as soon a as possible. How many years of your life are you willing to waste? I'm standing on 6 wasted years now, and i'm only 27. I hope you realise how serious this is.

3 days on the wrong medication can have bad effects, nevermind 4 weeks. Normally a shrink will only put you on an anti depressant after a few sessions after drawing definate conclusions as to whether you need it or not, this is the correct way to go. But if you go the meds from your GP then well I dont think its a good idea to take them, he has not analysed your problem in its entirety and as much as I respect your normal GP i do not think they are in the postion to make such calls.

I think you should just meet up with the guys on the forum, would probably help you in a massive way, or maybe disturb you more :p

[dotVIBE]

I agree with Rex. A GP should'nt be prescribing anti deps. They should do a referral to a professional in the field.

[DarKWateR]

Okay...I have an appointment with a Psychiatrist @ 2:30 by Stikland Hospital

Will let you know what they say...

I did recieve my medication from my GP....and I did go back to her yesterday explaining my side effects...she recommended me taking the pill in the evening instead of the morning. She also metioned that she might up my dosage to a full pill from next week onwards.

[Rex Regis]

Okay...I have an appointment with a Psychiatrist @ 2:30 by Stikland Hospital

Will let you know what they say...

I did recieve my medication from my GP....and I did go back to her yesterday explaining my side effects...she recommended me taking the pill in the evening instead of the morning. She also metioned that she might up my dosage to a full pill from next week onwards.

Good glad you are going to see a Psychiatrist. Gp's ....sometimes I have no idea what they are thinking!

[dotVIBE]

kudos dude, keep us updated.

[Alan]

Yeah those stories of kids hanging themselves in schools after tacking this stuff. There was some controversy about how the docs were handing it out like candy to kids. I mean adolescence is tough. Teenagers get down and maybe depressed but that's life :rolleyes:.


Scary how druggies pop this stuff with E. They take E and their Serotonin dips so they find themselve needing SSRIs to help them. Also nutural versions like (can't remember the name) that increase Serotonin. They take this stuff after a dip from taking E on weekends to get through the week. Problem is this mixed with E can lead to Serotonin syndrome:eek: . Now that is a very serious problem that kills. I was shocked finding whole forums on how to do drugs and use this SSRI's and natual stuff to deal with the after effects.

Another interesting thing is that natural stuff was also a food supplement but there was a problem during manufacture regarding genetically modified bacteria that lead to people suffering autoimmune diseases :eek: It was on The Discovery Channel.

*trying to find the name of the it*

[BeVonk!]

My own world was destroyed between 2001 and 2003 because of Arropax - prescribed by a specialist. I don't want to go into the details here - but I would like to warn you guys/girls to be very very careful of these things. They are not the harmless drugs the manufacturers and doctors would like you to believe. For the doctors it's an easy solution - and for the manufacturers it's plenty money. And it can ruin you financially over the long run if your medical aid is weak.

If you've tried all other natural and spiritual options - and still suffer - then go to the absolute best medical practioner you can find and afford to prescribe these meds.

[Alan]

My own world was destroyed between 2001 and 2003 because of Arropax - prescribed by a specialist.

Amazing. That's around the same time it put me through the wringer. Well I was between 2000 and late 2001. At least that's the part I know was Aropax:mad:

[dotVIBE]

Luckily there has been a lot of progress in this field of medicines since the days of aropax. Aropax did sweet blue buggerall for me.

[Alan]

Luckily there has been a lot of progress in this field of medicines since the days of aropax. Aropax did sweet blue buggerall for me.

I guess that makes you a very lucky person :D

[Boodles]

The only pill that i take is allergex.


The winelands are the worst place you be live for hayfever (due to chemical spraying on grapes) , so, the local Doc says.

[dotVIBE]

hmmm, lucky is a relative thing. I have now gone through more than 30 different makes & combinations. Am currently on 3 different things that is Costing me R1500.00 a month for meds only.

The thing is, they work. I can function normally, my concentration & memory is normal, I am socially functional and I can do my job properly. I can work now, so I can afford the meds. It sux that I have to take pills to have a normal life, but the alternative is too ghastly to contemplate. Been there, not going back.

[Rex Regis]

hmmm, lucky is a relative thing. I have now gone through more than 30 different makes & combinations. Am currently on 3 different things that is Costing me R1500.00 a month for meds only.

The thing is, they work. I can function normally, my concentration & memory is normal, I am socially functional and I can do my job properly. I can work now, so I can afford the meds. It sux that I have to take pills to have a normal life, but the alternative is too ghastly to contemplate. Been there, not going back.

Just as a matter of interest, what medical conditional is the result of you having to be on this medication?

[BeVonk!]

The problem with these meds are that they have different impacts on different people - and it can be extreme. If the doctor/specialist is not careful and thorough things can go very wrong. I will never telll anyone what to do - as there are plenty success cases associated with these meds. I accept that my case could have been unique (not the norm) - but I am today very angry at the doctor that didn't want to listen when confronted about the negative effects.

[dotVIBE]

Diagnosis is acute clinical depression. for 10 years now.

[Rex Regis]

Diagnosis is acute clinical depression. for 10 years now.
Harsh, and you are how old now?

[Boodles]

Diagnosis is acute clinical depression. for 10 years now.


Is that hereditry?

[dotVIBE]

The problem with these meds are that they have different impacts on different people - and it can be extreme. If the doctor/specialist is not careful and thorough things can go very wrong. I will never telll anyone what to do - as there are plenty success cases associated with these meds. I accept that my case could have been unique (not the norm) - but I am today very angry at the doctor that didn't want to listen when confronted about the negative effects.

very true. It sometimes can take a long time to find the combination that works. Sometimes it's not found at all. such is intricacies of our biological system.

[dotVIBE]

27

Mother and her sister has depression, my father's mother and his brother has it.

But i get to be the one that gets completely disabled by it when I don't take my meds.

[dotVIBE]

hmmm, this thread is about darkwater though. I hardly want to lament my misfortunes. I'm ok now, I just have to be very very careful.

[DarKWateR]

Well I'm off to see her and see what she has to say....
I hope she has good advise because at this point in my life.....
.... I really need it

[Alan]

The thing is, they work. I can function normally, my concentration & memory is normal, I am socially functional and I can do my job properly. I can work now, so I can afford the meds. It sux that I have to take pills to have a normal life, but the alternative is too ghastly to contemplate. Been there, not going back.

Well for your sake I hope they carry on working and don't lead to disaster somewhere down the line.



but I am today very angry at the doctor that didn't want to listen when confronted about the negative effects.

Nevermind listen. Try increasing the dose almost three fold. :eek:



Diagnosis is acute clinical depression. for 10 years now.

I've never hand acute clinical depression. I have had the side effects of Aropax as well as being practically bedridden for well over a year due to illness. So I know what it's like from both sides in terms of being unable to "live". Scary thing is those two problems could well have been linked.

In your case it seems you had no choice you were so bad. In other cases it isn't worth the risk IMO.

[Rex Regis]

27

Mother and her sister has depression, my father's mother and his brother has it.

But i get to be the one that gets completely disabled by it when I don't take my meds.

Seems genetical, have you tried all the avenues besides medication? You are very young to have all this stuff, not that I think its age related, its just sad

Good luck Darkwater!

[noxibox]

THC (maryjane) has a big effect on your serotonin receptors. These are the receptors that are stimulated by the anti depressants. You basically render your anti deps useless when toking from the tree of knowledge.

Please note: I have nothing against the good weed. But it does not mix with depression.
SSRIs just interfere with and dampen the effect of THC. Some research indicates THC may also have an SSRI effect.

However no-one who is depressed should be starting on any recreational drugs, legal or illegal. Best learn how to handle the fun stuff when your head is on straight.


My own world was destroyed between 2001 and 2003 because of Arropax - prescribed by a specialist.
Aropax seems to disagree with a lot of people. However everyone is different and so are all the various SSRIs.


Try to get on a natural anti-depressant, as the side effect is not as bad.
What about cocaine, that's natural?

Natural does not equal better than manufactured by humans.


From what I heard about prozac, it will cause sleeplessness. If you drink sleeping pills to sleep, that might cause depression, which in some cases, means that you will get stronger prozac, which causes a circle of drugs to counteract the effects of the previous one.
While the prozac may initially interfere with sleep, tranquilizers are not going to interfere with the prozac. Some doctors do prescribe tranqilizers for the first few weeks to help the patient ease into the anti-depressants.


And now I just remembered why I really don't like the thought of Prozac et. al. : It's the number of cases where merely depressed people become suicidal within a week or two of going on the drug.
Is that prozac causing suicide or people who recover enough from depression to be able to do something about how unhappy they feel?

[noxibox]

- but I am today very angry at the doctor that didn't want to listen when confronted about the negative effects.
Unfortunately there remains a lot of arrogance in the medical profession. I kept changing GPs until I found one that talked to me like an adult. When I ask questions I expect proper answers, not "because I know best". Some of my early GPs were clearly annoyed that I went away and researched everything they said and prescribed.

[Rex Regis]

No offence Nox you are probably one of the best debaters on this thread and have an awesome general knowledge, but everyone here is just comparing stories and general chat, there really isnt need to over analyse the the posts.

[noxibox]

Other anti-depressants worth investigating if the standard SSRIs do not work are Effexor SR, Eldepryl (primarily a parkinsons drug, but also used for depression, and it primarily influences dopamine), Wellbutrin (might be called something else here) and Aurorix. All of these either do not have a dramatic effect on serotonin or they affect it and other neurotransmitters.

[dotVIBE]

yip, keep it friendly,

then i wont turn crazy... again....

:D just kidding.

We have all had our different experiences, and that's coloured our view on things like these. You take in a standpoint because of what happened to you, and how you dealt with it is what influence your view on the matter. The human brain is largely a mystery to medical science. We know serotonin re-uptake inhibitors sometimes work, and sometimes they don't. There are plenty of stuff out there to help. Best will always be if you ca get along without it, but if that's not possible, you gotta do what you gotta do.

[Rex Regis]

I think there are definatly cases where medication does help, like in your case Dot, until they can find out exactly what causes these chemical imbalances to occur, hopefully one day they will

[dotVIBE]

Other anti-depressants worth investigating if the standard SSRIs do not work are Effexor SR, Eldepryl (primarily a parkinsons drug, but also used for depression, and it primarily influences dopamine), Wellbutrin (might be called something else here) and Aurorix. All of these either do not have a dramatic effect on serotonin or they affect it and other neurotransmitters.

Effexor is very good, but seriously expensive. Wellbutrin is popular, especially under women. Cymbalta is also currently a favourite.

These are all pretty new, and work much better than the late nineties stuff like aropax and prozac.

[Rex Regis]

Effexor is very good, but seriously expensive. Wellbutrin is popular, especially under women. Cymbalta is also currently a favourite.

These are all pretty new, and work much better than the late nineties stuff like aropax and prozac.

You sound like a pharmacist dot :p

[Xarog]

However no-one who is depressed should be starting on any recreational drugs, legal or illegal. Best learn how to handle the fun stuff when your head is on straight.
Same could be said for the non-recreational variety. Like I said, sometimes there's a good reason to be depressed.


What about cocaine, that's natural?

Natural does not equal better than manufactured by humans.
Just because you can list an extreme example does not mean that manufactured anti-depressants work better than natural ones. For the most part, natural anti-depressants have little or no side-effects.


Is that prozac causing suicide or people who recover enough from depression to be able to do something about how unhappy they feel?
It's depressed but otherwise functional people going on the drug for a short while and becoming suicidal out of the blue. There were quite a few court cases about it until the pharmas finally admitted that going off the deep end because of these drugs was a risk.

[Rex Regis]

It's depressed but otherwise functional people going on the drug for a short while and becoming suicidal out of the blue. There were quite a few court cases about it until the pharmas finally admitted that going off the deep end because of these drugs was a risk.

That is true, it has been documented that Prozac did make some people do things like this.

[noxibox]

Just because you can list an extreme example does not mean that manufactured anti-depressants work better than natural ones. For the most part, natural anti-depressants have little or no side-effects.
St John's Wort is a good case - it may or may not actually work, it can interract with other medications and may cause increased sensitivity to sunlight, anxiety, dry mouth, dizziness, gastrointestinal symptoms, fatigue, headache, or sexual dysfunction.

The point remains that natural does not necessarily indicate safer or even less side-effects. And they should only be taken in consultation with a doctor.

[nthdimension]

It's depressed but otherwise functional people going on the drug for a short while and becoming suicidal out of the blue. There were quite a few court cases about it until the pharmas finally admitted that going off the deep end because of these drugs was a risk.
It is interesting that it can make some people more suicidal, other people less suicidal. Some people show signs of increased violent behaviour, others become calm and completely incapable of even getting angry.

Another alternative I have not seen mentioned here is Reboxetine. Also not an SSRI.

[BeVonk!]

And then there is the very neglected but most basic natural remedy ... enough sleep -especially at night when it is dark.

I'm not joking here. I suffered with depression for years without a cure - working late every night and sleeping less than six hours a day. About two years ago I started a disciplined system to get around 7 hours of sleep at night - and haven't had problems since. When it now happens that I do not get my 7 hours per night for a few days running (for whatever reason) I can feel the depression and anxiety taking hold of me.

Sleep is vital. I really feel for those who have to sleep during the day because of night shift duties. I can imagine that many of them suffer with depression. The mind and eyes need rest in darkness and silence.

[DarKWateR]

This is what she had to say....

You do not have to be afraid of anti-depressants, they will not make you addicted nor cause your body any harm whatsoever, people just react different to the treatments thats all...

after she got to know me a bit...

Therapy is your own personal choice...you do have excess stress which is most likely caused by all the current happenings. The side effects that Lorien is giving is normal in alot of patients...you will only really start to feel better after about 7-10 days of using it...The side-effect should then mostly dissapear since your body will become familiar with it. Should the side-effect however become worse in any way then you might need to change your current medicine. See how you feel after 10 days, this is a hard time in your life and if you don't really start feeling better by then, therapy might be the way to go (R120 per session).

I am happy with the medicine your GP has provided but not entirely happy with the way it was explaned to you. These things don't work on the spot and your body takes time to get use to the treatment. I am however surprised the your GP did not provide you with some form of sleepment medication since Lorien might keep you out of your deserved sleeping time. Try and rest..take your medicine as advised...see how you feel after 7-10 days...and if no improvement happens then therapy and/or different medicine might be the way to go.

[noxibox]

I'm not joking here. I suffered with depression for years without a cure - working late every night and sleeping less than six hours a day. About two years ago I started a disciplined system to get around 7 hours of sleep at night - and haven't had problems since. When it now happens that I do not get my 7 hours per night for a few days running (for whatever reason) I can feel the depression and anxiety taking hold of me.
Depression itself can lead to being perpetually tired because although depressed people often sleep too much it is not proper restful sleep. Melatonin helps some people, but check that it will not interract badly with your medication. GHB was extremely effective and safe if not combined with tranquilizers or alcohol.

DarKWateR you might also want to look into some sort of social physical activity. Find an activity you enjoy with people you like. And she sounds like a good doctor.

[Alan]

This is what she had to say....

You do not have to be afraid of anti-depressants, they will not make you addicted nor cause your body any harm whatsoever, people just react different to the treatments thats all...

after she got to know me a bit...

Therapy is your own personal choice...you do have excess stress which is most likely caused by all the current happenings. The side effects that Lorien is giving is normal in alot of patients...you will only really start to feel better after about 7-10 days of using it...The side-effect should then mostly dissapear since your body will become familiar with it. Should the side-effect however become worse in any way then you might need to change your current medicine. See how you feel after 10 days, this is a hard time in your life and if you don't really start feeling better by then, therapy might be the way to go (R120 per session).

I am happy with the medicine your GP has provided but not entirely happy with the way it was explaned to you. These things don't work on the spot and your body takes time to get use to the treatment. I am however surprised the your GP did not provide you with some form of sleepment medication since Lorien might keep you out of your deserved sleeping time. Try and rest..take your medicine as advised...see how you feel after 7-10 days...and if no improvement happens then therapy and/or different medicine might be the way to go.


Okay one problem. They are addictive(SSRI's). That's why they are supposed to take you off them slowly. My doc also said they were not addictive and I paid a heavy price for believing him.

So I don't know about this. He/she has lied to you or is incompetent.

Look it up for yourself.

[BeVonk!]

A few weapons I found useful in my own the fight against depression ...

1) Enough sleep (amount required differs from person to person)
2) Regular exercise (three times a week - 30 to 40 minutes each).
3) Silence - especially at night. In our world this is difficult I know.
4) Lots of laughter.
5) A Structured life. Chaos create stress and stress causes fear/anxiety, sleep deprevation - and depression.
6) Reject the fear of fear - look it in the eye and conquer the dragon.
7) Live a clean honest life - always doing what you know is right. This keeps unwelcome stress and fear away.
8) Get to the root of the problem - solve the causes (unless it's genetic).

This sounds over simplistic I know - but it's worth giving a try.

[noxibox]

I suspect what the doctor means when she says they are not addictive is that people are unlikely to escalate their dose on their own. When you are ready to stop you just taper off the dose. That may not even be necessary, but it is a standard procedure.

[Alan]

@Trafeye

DId your doc say they weren't addictive and did you have withdrawal symtoms?

[Alan]

I suspect what the doctor means when she says they are not addictive is that people are unlikely to escalate their dose on their own. When you are ready to stop you just taper off the dose. That may not even be necessary, but it is a standard procedure.

If that's the case then he/she is incompetent because addiction doesn't mean only escalating doses.

Addiction

the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

I've read numerous reports of people suffering withdrawals even when going off slowly.

If this medication causes trauma when one stops taking them by whatever way then they are addictive. As I said I know of people having to go back onto this stuff after they stopped taking it because they can't handle the withdrawals.

[RompelStompel]

Anybody using Prozac/Lorien ....

How was it in the beginning...any side effects...how long did it last...still using it??

Was on Aropax - however developed severe insomnia last year.

My doc switched me to Molipaxin - everything is 100% today.

Don't stop taking your meds - I tried it - felt pretty k@k after only a week. Guess it was stupid on my side to go cold turkey.

Good luck :)

[Debbie]

DarKWateR-

1. Give the meds time (a few weeks)
2. Listen to your own body and mental state- it will tell you far more about the effects of the meds than people on the internet
3. Everyone reacts differently

I was on prozac (fluoxetine) (20mg/day) a few years ago, side effects I suffered-
-zombiefication/dulling of emotional range: this doesn't sound too bad, until it happens to you.
-dry itchy skin
-um, the sexual bit (read the leaflet)
-suicide ideation (it's real, despite what eli lilly says)
-a weird emotion like a mix between severe depression and extreme anger- this happened when I was offset by particular identifable incidents

prozac simply wasn't for me.

current extreme pressures in my life have led me back to the dr recently to deal with depression and anxiety- just started with eglonyl (sulpirite) (150mg/day) (really helping with my concentration and general mood); supplemented with venlor (venlafaxine) (75mg/day) - since eglonyl is not something one can be on long term (unless lactating is your idea of fun). got a mild natural tranquilliser (schedule 1) called restin and a couple of xanor (0,5mg) to deal with really bad anxiety and the inability to sleep. (The xanor is a dangerous one not to be messed with. maybe ask your dr for slow release xanor.)

there are plenty of people out there who, for some reason or other, have brain chemistry that is not like it should be. depression is a medical condition that can be helped with meds. the key is to listen to your own body and work with your dr to find the right meds that work for you.

[DarKWateR]

DarKWateR-

1. Give the meds time (a few weeks)
2. Listen to your own body and mental state- it will tell you far more about the effects of the meds than people on the internet
3. Everyone reacts differently

I was on prozac (fluoxetine) (20mg/day) a few years ago, side effects I suffered-
-zombiefication/dulling of emotional range: this doesn't sound too bad, until it happens to you.
-dry itchy skin
-um, the sexual bit (read the leaflet)
-suicide ideation (it's real, despite what eli lilly says)
-a weird emotion like a mix between severe depression and extreme anger- this happened when I was offset by particular identifable incidents

prozac simply wasn't for me.

I went to the docter yesterday and starting laughing about nothing I was really happy....happend for about 15mins this morning aswell....It's like it's trying to break through but just not entirely....What I mean is, if this is how i'm going to feel if I stick to the meds...then YES I most certainly will the feelings is great...but if it's just gonna stay the same and side effects continues then I might consider something else.

[Debbie]

hehe, sorry DW, i forgot to mention the positive thing i experienced on prozac- i didnt feel like i was staring into a big black empty hole every day.

[DarKWateR]

o...and mine is really different...ex..


I was on prozac (fluoxetine) (20mg/day) a few years ago, side effects I suffered-
-zombiefication/dulling of emotional range: this doesn't sound too bad, until it happens to you. (Nope)
-dry itchy skin (Nope)
-um, the sexual bit (read the leaflet) (Will ask about that now)
-suicide ideation (it's real, despite what eli lilly says) (Nope)
-a weird emotion like a mix between severe depression and extreme anger- this happened when I was offset by particular identifable incidents (Nope).

Mine is

-slightly upset stomach
-mood swings
-dry lips
-nausea
-vomiting (just feel like it sometimes)
-loss of appetite
-sleeping problems

the sexual bit...well i don't have a leaflet... I do however (we are all adults here bare with me) ..find my sex drive to be the same but my private parts are over sensitive

[Xarog]

there are plenty of people out there who, for some reason or other, have brain chemistry that is not like it should be. depression is a medical condition that can be helped with meds. the key is to listen to your own body and work with your dr to find the right meds that work for you.
I know there are people that really DO have strange brain chemistry, but I'm a bit wary when the medical establishment starts to decide what is and is not "normal". It's still a 'new' field in that there is tons of stuff we don't know about the brain or how it works.

[BeVonk!]

@Trafeye

DId your doc say they weren't addictive and did you have withdrawal symtoms?

The doctors have always maintained that the stuff is safe and non-addictive.

The problems I experienced with Aropax had nothing to do with its addictiveness - but with extreme personality changes that occured - and not in myself - but in my wife (to whom it was prescribed at the time for post-natal depression). Me, and my kids suffered tremendously - and I almost lost my wife to attempted suicide (a few times). I don't want to go into more detail here.

I myself also suffered with depression for years (as I've mentioned) - and I have used meds (Cypramil, I think) - which I stopped using after about a year. This stuff does weird things in a person's brain - as I was plagued with these weird "noises" (like electrical sparks) in my head (I don't really know how to describe it better) for at least a year after I stopped using it.

I now take the natural logical path as far as possible. I do acknowledge however that for many people this approach won't work and that meds will be required - even permanently.

[Debbie]

DW you wouldn't have any of these side effects yet after only a few days- the side effects i talk about came about after several weeks, months even, and they got progressively worse.

as for the sex bit, it's one of the more universal side effects of antidepressants- sex drive goes down and sexual pleasure greatly diminished.

[DarKWateR]

DW you wouldn't have any of these side effects yet after only a few days- the side effects i talk about came about after several weeks, months even, and they got progressively worse.

as for the sex bit, it's one of the more universal side effects of antidepressants- sex drive goes down and sexual pleasure greatly diminished.

Ok fair...but what about the side effects I have now...did you have them in the beginning or similar

[Debbie]

yup- mood swings, dry mouth, inability to sleep

[Alan]

The doctors have always maintained that the stuff is safe and non-addictive.

The problems I experienced with Aropax had nothing to do with its addictiveness - but with extreme personality changes that occured - and not in myself - but in my wife (to whom it was prescribed at the time for post-natal depression). Me, and my kids suffered tremendously - and I almost lost my wife to attempted suicide (a few times). I don't want to go into more detail here.

I myself also suffered with depression for years (as I've mentioned) - and I have used meds (Cypramil, I think) - which I stopped using after about a year. This stuff does weird things in a person's brain - as I was plagued with these weird "noises" (like electrical sparks) in my head (I don't really know how to describe it better) for at least a year after I stopped using it.

I now take the natural logical path as far as possible. I do acknowledge however that for many people this approach won't work and that meds will be required - even permanently.


When I was on Aropax I had a "shocking" problem. It was worse after stopping the meds everyday for a solid month. That is enough to drive a person crazy.

I'm not surprised in the least people commit suicide after taking Aropax.

The natural ones are dangerous too. They work differently to SSRIs and you are susceptable to serotonin syndrome if you overdose. Look up 5htp and L-tryptophan. Those were the natural meds I was talking about earlier.

[dotVIBE]

Hi Dark, good to hear about the psych, sounds like she has the rihjt attitude.
sleep is good, but no less than 7 and no more than 8 hrs a day.
a half hour of exercise, like walking, 4 times a week is necessary boosts the serotonin naturally.

for me the key is listening to my psych, and communicating w her. If something about my meds bother me, I ask the question and we work out a solution. The solution is always there, though it sometimes takes a while to get to.
good luck mate.

[DarKWateR]

I've been reading through my thread and just seeing all the problems/hell that people experience with these meds really scares me...I once heared something about the biggest killer to human nature is medicine....and now since i'm on treatment myself I can see why people want to kill themselfs...

No wonder other people rather turn to spiritual healing like Witchcraft/Wicca/Pagan/Meditation/Voodoo whatever...you get the point.

[BeVonk!]

@ alanf85: My wife's extreme personality changes started when she started using Aropax - and returned to normal soon after she stopped using it. The negative effects started very quickly - but also ended very quickly.

[DarKWateR]

I've been reading through my thread and just seeing all the problems/hell that people experience with these meds really scares me...I once heared something about the biggest killer to human nature is medicine....and now since i'm on treatment myself I can see why people want to kill themselfs...

No wonder other people rather turn to spiritual healing like Witchcraft/Wicca/Pagan/Meditation/Voodoo whatever...you get the point.

look at these

http://www.bewitchingways.com/spells/depression.htm

http://wordpress.com/tag/spells/

http://crypt.eldritchs.com/spells/v/Voodoo_Spell_For_Pain_Affliction.html

[teraside]

I've been reading through my thread and just seeing all the problems/hell that people experience with these meds really scares me...I once heared something about the biggest killer to human nature is medicine....and now since i'm on treatment myself I can see why people want to kill themselfs...

No wonder other people rather turn to spiritual healing like Witchcraft/Wicca/Pagan/Meditation/Voodoo whatever...you get the point.

For me it was God, being a Christian really helped me with depression, although I had to work at it.

It's up to you man, it's in your hands ;)

[BeVonk!]

For me it was God, being a Christian really helped me with depression, although I had to work at it.

Agree 100%.

[DarKWateR]

For me it was God, being a Christian really helped me with depression, although I had to work at it.

It's up to you man, it's in your hands ;)

No problem with that...maybe this medication was the plan after all

[Angstrom]

I've been on and off SSRIs for 7 or 8 years and I almost always end up going cold turkey after 6 months or so because I just can't bear the side effects anymore.

Fluoxetine (Prozac), Paroxetine (Aropax), Citalopram (Cipramil) were tried at various occasions and repeated as I moved from doctor to doctor. One doctor even put me on Espiride, an anti-psychotic, which causes lactation and is no fun at all. It just made my panic attacks worse.

First thing I learned: Never trust a GP with something as important as your mental health. See a psychiatrist for meds and a psychologist for therapy


I was plagued with these weird "noises" (like electrical sparks) in my head

I experienced what sounds like a similar thing after using Cipramil. Toward the end of each day, around 17:00, I would start to experience strobing thoughts. I found it impossible to concentrate on anything as I saw snapshots of a complete idea, but couldn't see the whole picture. It really reminded me of a nightclub scene where you see snapshots of motions thanks to the strobe lights.

I am now on a wonderful medication called Mirtazapine (Remeron). As I understand it it's one of a relatively new class of tetracyclic antidepressants. It has undone all the legacy side effects I was still experiencing from all the other meds. I can also sleep now with no assistance ... this after taking double doses of sleeping pills for at least 5 years.

@DarkWater: Find a doctor that doesn't patronise you and try to force you to take whatever they dish out. No doctor will have a silver bullet when it comes to psychochemistry. My psychiatrist loves that I research things independantly and we have educated discussions about it rather than me just sitting there with my hand out waiting for him to give me a new script.

In addition, Remeron improves your appetite and weight gain is a side effect so it might even help you put some meat on your bones ;).

I am not even remotely suggesting that it might be for you ... merely trying to give you some info that you can ask your specialist about.

[LoneGunman]

daily routines that can help:

go for a walk. get decent nutrition (vegetables, fruit x2 a day), and a reasonable amount of sleep, preferably starting before midnight.

anti depressants have their place, but step one is to establish a personal health routine, daily simple but quality veg and fruit for lunch and supper, alongside whatever else - and that 'going for a walk' thing is a must..

[Debbie]

One doctor even put me on Espiride, an anti-psychotic, which causes lactation and is no fun at all. It just made my panic attacks worse.

case in point about how diff things affect ppl differently- espiride is the same thing as eglonyl, which ive found to be tremendously helpful, and it takes the edge off things- far from provoking panic, it does just the opposite for me.

[Angstrom]

case in point about how diff things affect ppl differently- espiride is the same thing as eglonyl, which ive found to be tremendously helpful, and it takes the edge off things- far from provoking panic, it does just the opposite for me.

Quite.

[RompelStompel]

daily routines that can help:

go for a walk. get decent nutrition (vegetables, fruit x2 a day), and a reasonable amount of sleep, preferably starting before midnight.

anti depressants have their place, but step one is to establish a personal health routine, daily simple but quality veg and fruit for lunch and supper, alongside whatever else - and that 'going for a walk' thing is a must..

Nothing beats the feeling you have after a 5km jog.

Best medication :)

Also - try new things that you have never done .

[LoneGunman]

eww. never jogged in my life.. however, I did get into daily walks of around 7 km's, smoking happily and listening to iPod :P
'exercise' doesnt always mean do something vigorously.. it can just be a decent hour and a half stroll in some direction..

As for 'doing something new' - I packed up my life, and moved to America, from 'not thinking about ever doing it' -
to 'arriving at JFK with suitcase and backpack' in just 14 days. 'New' is always a good thing to try.

[teraside]

The doctors have always maintained that the stuff is safe and non-addictive.

The problems I experienced with Aropax had nothing to do with its addictiveness - but with extreme personality changes that occured - and not in myself - but in my wife (to whom it was prescribed at the time for post-natal depression). Me, and my kids suffered tremendously - and I almost lost my wife to attempted suicide (a few times). I don't want to go into more detail here.

I myself also suffered with depression for years (as I've mentioned) - and I have used meds (Cypramil, I think) - which I stopped using after about a year. This stuff does weird things in a person's brain - as I was plagued with these weird "noises" (like electrical sparks) in my head (I don't really know how to describe it better) for at least a year after I stopped using it.

I now take the natural logical path as far as possible. I do acknowledge however that for many people this approach won't work and that meds will be required - even permanently.

Man, I never even saw this response, I HAD THE EXACT SAME EFFECT! I had it while using the damned stuff, Cyprimal that is, my shrink told me I was hallucinating, I said you better go back to shrink school and left and never went back.

I'm 22 now, I was on Cipramil and Aropax, both are disgusting drugs!

[CeeBee]

hey Darkwater,
have u still got that groovy PC u mention in your signature, or did the woman make u give it up?
I know all too well what its like to be scrood over by a woman, went thru similar **** years ago (now happily married for many years, so chin up theres light upfront)
If I may throw my 2c in the pot, take that pc and go for a moerse gaming weekend, I know eventually you gotta go home alone, but when u feel like **** put on the pc and play away, always makes me feel way better, i'm sure u'll find u don't need drugs :p
Wish I had such a hot gaming rig to help me thru those nightmare nights the biets put me thru, of course those days there weren't pcs like today or the immersive games. :cool:
Good luck, en sterkte!

[DarKWateR]

hey Darkwater,
have u still got that groovy PC u mention in your signature, or did the woman make u give it up?

Trust me ...the pc aint as groovy as you think....7600GS aint really that great.... and this goes out to all the men out there...I raise my hand up high..

Woman can cheat us! Hurt us! Give us pain! Make our lives hell!........
But they will never take out PC's!!!!!

[Xarog]

That's the spirit. ;)

[CeeBee]

That's the spirit. ;)

Agreed! I've seen too many of my friends give up or scale down heavy, their gaming to keep the little woman off their case :(
I'm happy to have a wife who lets me enjoy one of life's little pleasures (it doesnt get out of hand), in our setup it is actually a positive thing to have, like 2 partners with different hobbies, to have some time apart, which enhances the time together :p Such gals seem to be very rare, but they do still exist :)

But my main idea is for u to find fun things to do, to feel better, and keep yor mind off her, I'm not one for drugs & meds, seems they just make u feel worse. (so much better things to do with the munny)

ps... u right the 7600 isn't what it used to be.... time to upgrade my pc too, at least u've got the rest of the system still good.

[smee711]

:(
Anybody using Prozac/Lorien ....

How was it in the beginning...any side effects...how long did it last...still using it??

go with what twiga said, someone very close to me was on it and the emotional desensitization is terrible, unless you are suicidal, get off it before it takes over your life. i am a medical rep and sold products like these, prozac being the "original" sri, it is not really an ssri as it is not nearly as selective as aropax for example. my special someone was on cilift, a cipramil generic and it nearly ****ed her up. get off and stay off if you can. i know it is often not easy, but you will have no black or white, only grey.

[marine1]

Jeez it seems that people really are too stressed and depressed. Very disturbing.

[DarKWateR]

:(

go with what twiga said, someone very close to me was on it and the emotional desensitization is terrible, unless you are suicidal, get off it before it takes over your life. i am a medical rep and sold products like these, prozac being the "original" sri, it is not really an ssri as it is not nearly as selective as aropax for example. my special someone was on cilift, a cipramil generic and it nearly ****ed her up. get off and stay off if you can. i know it is often not easy, but you will have no black or white, only grey.

Don't know if that's such a good idea....3 different professionals told me same thing and that is: Continue for at least 10 days ... Then see how you feel.....never just stop taking it.....never


Jeez it seems that people really are too stressed and depressed. Very disturbing.

You'll be surprised at how many people suffers from stress... it's insane

[supersunbird]

I weaned myself off of them. Started drinking one only every second day, then third day tehen it was like one a week and i just stopped.

The panic attacks that i mildly got describes those simptoms you mention, tightness of breath, a bit of nausea...

[dotVIBE]

Wow, this thread is growing quite fast.

If you read through here, you'll see a pattern emerging.

One pattern is that of people who stopped their medicine because of the side effects. I feel this is a risky one.

The other pattern is that of people who have stuck to it, and evolved to to the medications that work for them. They are vehement about the fact that medication should not be stopped and that the right meds for the right person does exist.

Of course side effects can be terrible. They can definitely outweigh the good of the meds. I've been on cipramil, and have had the sparks in my head. I also know that cipramil has been replaced by cipralex, and that the cipralex has a lot less side effects. (no, i'm not a pharmacist, but i tend to research things that my life depends on). The bottom line is that no one wants to have to rely on some pill for their mental health. No chemical you put in your body is good for all your systems. Some side effects are a fact of my life. But I have learned that the alternative is to have no life at all. Depression comes in different grades and severity. But it is always serious, and we are not equipped with the knowledge to deal with it ourselves. That is why we go to psychiatrists for help, but they can only help us if we push them about the side effects until we get unto something that works.

[CooperS]

You'll be surprised at how many people suffer from stress... it's insane

Don't think that there are any more than there used to be, think that the Quacks these days are too quick to diagnose "depression".

Pull yourselves together and be men!!! Can you imagine if cave men just gave up and went on Prozak? WTH is going to evolve from a bunch of wimps???:sick:

[BeVonk!]

Pull yourselves together and be men!!! Can you imagine if cave men just gave up and went on Prozak? WTH is going to evolve from a bunch of wimps???:sick:

Very insightful tough guy. The latest Polka ad depicts you well. You may want to get off that horse and take the shades off your eyes.

[DarKWateR]

Pull yourselves together and be men!!! Can you imagine if cave men just gave up and went on Prozak? WTH is going to evolve from a bunch of wimps???:sick:

That's a bit harsh...it's not as simple as you think...you might handle depression or whatever well where someone else can't...

Did you sing in pop idols....no?...why?....you can't sing??? Well it's exactly the same with depression either you handle it well,okayish or not at all and need medical help to assist you.

[dotVIBE]

Don't think that there are any more than there used to be, think that the Quacks these days are too quick to diagnose "depression".

Pull yourselves together and be men!!! Can you imagine if cave men just gave up and went on Prozak? WTH is going to evolve from a bunch of wimps???:sick:

Puh lease! How old old are you? 13?

[Leitmotif]

Puh lease! How old old are you? 13?

I'm 25 and I came through suicidal depression earlier in life. I agree with him.

[dotVIBE]

agree with :confused:

[BeVonk!]

I'm 25 and I came through suicidal depression earlier in life. I agree with him.

If we were all the same life would be simple - and boring. I've seen many tough guys break when life hits them hard. Tough guys at 25 - wrecks at 35. There are dead guys today who could have been helped - but they were tough - too tough to get help.

[RompelStompel]

I'm 25 and I came through suicidal depression earlier in life. I agree with him.

Also been through that - not very nice :(

[LoneGunman]

re the "Pull yourselves together and be men!!! Can you imagine if cave men just gave up and went on Prozak? WTH is going to evolve from a bunch of wimps???"

good grief, that sort of advice kills people. Modern society (and SA in particular) is way more complex, violent and dangerous than anything any simple cave dweller had to face.

There're multiple reasons for depression - and the situation in SA itself
is so far off the psychological norm, that I'm not surprised that so many folks
have experience of anti-depressants. (It's not normal to have to worry about
possible death and violence, as well as the regular modern worries, like taxes,
relationships and work issues) What you guys in SA have to deal with, is unlike
the situation ANYWHERE else. Modern society is tough enough, but the added
layers of violence, and insecurity in SA, means a lot of mental energy is going
on stuff more suited to refugees in a war zone..

The brain is hardware, the mind is 'software' - when the software gets
glitches, one finds a therapist, and/or medicine to smooth things out.

The one thing you don't do, is repress the glitches and try to pretend
everything's okay. Exercise, nutrition, a therapist, maybe medication -
or, as works for some folks, all of the above, and living somewhere else.
No one could argue that the realities of modern SA would be found
anywhere else in the world - they aren't.

You guys need to consider that from the start, you're living in a society
that is not operating 'normally' - all patriotic yadda yadda stuff aside.
The justified worries you have, are not shared by people in any other
Western or Eastern societies - so yeah, you're going to potentially
confront some mental issues.
That's what happens when normal people are trying really hard, to lead
'normal' lives, in an abnormal reality.

/rant off

[Skeptik]

I'm going to agree with LG. This place is not good for relaxing and forgetting your troubles. Time is a great healer, but you need to get away from them for a while.

[DarKWateR]

If we were all the same life would be simple - and boring. I've seen many tough guys break when life hits them hard. Tough guys at 25 - wrecks at 35. There are dead guys today who could have been helped - but they were tough - too tough to get help.

Agreed...no one is the same

[kb]

This is a really complex subject to which there seem to be no definitive answers. It would seem that any treatment needs to be highly individualised and a fair amount of experimentation may be necessary. My own experience would also indicate that what worked once before will not necessarily have the same effect at a later stage.

Have been on 2 different anti-depressants at 3 different times over the past 21 years and probably would have been on a lot more had it not been for exercise which probably kept me off for around 13 of those years. First experience was with an older tri-cyclic? Tofranil back in 1986. After this I became fairly obsessed with running which I am certain was the reason for a reasonably stable decade or more.

In 2000 after not being able to get out of bed to face the world for a week I realised I needed some help. This time was prescribed Zoloft which worked well on a relatively low dose and was off after less than 9 months, back to running and doing well.

Two years later was in trouble again due to being unable to run and back on Zoloft. This time however the dosage was increased to twice that of the first occasion and whilst there was an improvement it was to the emotionless zombie state that has been spoken of previously. I lived in this manner for nearly two years because it did enable me to function as a fairly normal member of society again.

After an argument with the med-aid over chronic medication benefits I did the "dangerous" thing of quitting cold turkey. This had the surprising result of improving my outlook and motivation quite rapidly. I was back to running again which I had felt no inclination to do whilst on the meds. Sadly serious injury again robbed me of the running and I was quickly back in the dumps. This time I have resisted the urge to look to meds due to my second experience with Zoloft.

So in summary there seems to be more than one way to deal with my circumstances of which there was only one single positive experience with meds. I also was fortunate never to experience any of the physical side effects ascribed to the meds by others.

Good luck to all in your battle with the beast, it's hell in hell - I know.

[garyb01]

This is a really complex subject to which there seem to be no definitive answers. It would seem that any treatment needs to be highly individualised and a fair amount of experimentation may be necessary. My own experience would also indicate that what worked once before will not necessarily have the same effect at a later stage.

Have been on 2 different anti-depressants at 3 different times over the past 21 years and probably would have been on a lot more had it not been for exercise which probably kept me off for around 13 of those years. First experience was with an older tri-cyclic? Tofranil back in 1986. After this I became fairly obsessed with running which I am certain was the reason for a reasonably stable decade or more.

In 2000 after not being able to get out of bed to face the world for a week I realised I needed some help. This time was prescribed Zoloft which worked well on a relatively low dose and was off after less than 9 months, back to running and doing well.

Two years later was in trouble again due to being unable to run and back on Zoloft. This time however the dosage was increased to twice that of the first occasion and whilst there was an improvement it was to the emotionless zombie state that has been spoken of previously. I lived in this manner for nearly two years because it did enable me to function as a fairly normal member of society again.

After an argument with the med-aid over chronic medication benefits I did the "dangerous" thing of quitting cold turkey. This had the surprising result of improving my outlook and motivation quite rapidly. I was back to running again which I had felt no inclination to do whilst on the meds. Sadly serious injury again robbed me of the running and I was quickly back in the dumps. This time I have resisted the urge to look to meds due to my second experience with Zoloft.

So in summary there seems to be more than one way to deal with my circumstances of which there was only one single positive experience with meds. I also was fortunate never to experience any of the physical side effects ascribed to the meds by others.

Good luck to all in your battle with the beast, it's hell in hell - I know.

Hey KB.

Basically a mirror image of my life story.

@ Darkwater:

My friend, in no way do I mean to sound condescending at all but, you are still very young and have a whole life ahead of you, even if it doesn't feel like that right now.

You have been bold enough and brave enough to turn to this forum for advice and guidance which in its own shows that you are actually a fighter and will get through this.

I have been through one hell of a lot in my life time and have been on several anti-depressants and what I have found to be the best one is LIFE. The beauty of life, still to be found in these dark days if you really want to look for it, is the best anti-depressant you could ever hope for.

I suffer from extreme post traumatic stress and even now, loud bangs and noises make me want to curl up into a little ball and cry. My kids know that balloons are banned, as are toy guns, crackers etc etc. Five years ago I lost my job, my family, my house and everything that I held dear to me. I had to start life all over again after having lost everything that I spent 13 years building up. I spent the next three years walking through the valley of the shadow of death, not wanting to face the next day or the day after that. I had a flood of memories from my past come up to haunt me and all my friends abandoned me when I was no longer the high-flyer throwing all the parties with the big expensive house and cars etc etc.

I went onto medication after medication including arropax, zoloft and the like and spent life as a numb zombie! Until one day I decided that I was not going to go through life like this one day longer.

I was going to be in charge of my life! I quit the medication and started taking responsibility for my own actions, my own life and I have never looked back again.

Even on the days that I dont know where the next cent is coming from or how I am going to feed my new family, I am happy!! You see, its all about attitude and once YOU decide how YOU are going to let life affect YOU, it all changes!.

Because, that decision is ours to make!! That is the beauty of life! Bad things are going to happen YES, but so are good things! Its how we allow those things to affect us and the mindset that we have and the attitude that we demonstrate, that determines the outcome.

Honestly, I am not saying to you go off the medication or dont take it. That is your decision to make. What I am saying is that you have a long life ahead of you and its yours to make of what you want. I wake up every morning and force my self to make this conscious decision: Today, I can either let this day dictate to me, or I am going to dictate to this day. This day is mine, my gift to myself and no-one and nothing is going to take that away from me!!

[RompelStompel]

[I]What you guys in SA have to deal with, is unlike the situation ANYWHERE else. Modern society is tough enough, but the added layers of violence, and insecurity in SA, means a lot of mental energy is goin on stuff more suited to refugees in a war zone..

Johannes Kerkorrel sums it up brilliantly in his song 'Gee jou hart vir Hillbrow'


Ons sit in die son, drink wyn,
Ons survive met n helse lot pyn in hierdie land, ja
Kom ons drink op die een wat sy drome oorleef,
op die een wat kry wat hy vra, ja

Enough of sad stuff :)

garyb01 and kb

Very well put

[garyb01]

Johannes Kerkorrel sums it up brilliantly in his song 'Gee jou hart vir Hillbrow'



Enough of sad stuff :)

garyb01 and kb

Very well put

:) :)

[kb]

Just want to point out that I am in NO way advocating quitting the meds without first seeking advice.

Rather I was relating my own experience and how what works for 1 person - even the same person, same meds, different time you may not experience the same results.

What I will say is, if you are functioning on the meds, but only in that numbed emotionless state, the meds are not working and it's time to change something.

Also in my experience at least 14 days is required when commencing these meds (SSRI's) before you are likely to experience any noticeable changes.

[BeVonk!]

garyb01, thanks for sharing that with us.

I've been trough a very similar experience (fanancial, family) - and also suffers from the same (embarrassing) post traumatic stress (I really appreciate that balloon ban :) ).

In my case I believe God pulled me and my family through the valley of the shadow of death. I really know the smells, sounds and tastes of that valley - a sampling of what hell must be like. I was also stripped of everything and had no more wordly security. To me it felt like I was crawling naked through a hot never ending desert sand storm. I've been a Christian all my life - but I believed that God abandoned me during this time - and that I was part of a cruel joke. I wrestled with God - I hated him at times. But it did come to an end - and one learns to know the Rock when there is nothing between you and rockbottom. I am a much stonger person today - and also much more appreciative of others' suffering. Tempering steel is a tough process - but a very necessary process. God had to bring this Mr Toughguy to his knees and make him something better.

But this is my story - obviously from a religious perspective that all on this forum may not appreciate or agree with - I do understand and respect that.

@ DarKWaterR ...

you have done a wonderful thing by opening up this debate. There is a purpose in suffering (I know that from real experience). Your suffering have led you to start this thread - and maybe someone somewhere reading the stuff here takes a decision to give life another chance ...

[LoneGunman]

Yeah, this is a useful thread. Whatever route people choose to try and feel better,
be it medication, religion, exercise, or combo's - anything is better than doing nothing.

There's also no shame or weakness in not coping too well with situations.
That's normal. And its healthy to be able to talk about it.

This forum serves a whole lot of different purposes, and one of them is to
help folks sitting isolated and separated from each other, to feel that they're
part of something.

So just know that whenever things seem real bad, it can help to post on forum, coz there'll always be someone to talk to, or argue with (or fight
with :) And putting things down in words on a page, can often help ease the
angst, and give one a better perspective.

Enough touchy feely kind stuff, lets get back to insults and name-calling -
no, I'm kidding, I'm kidding! :P

[CooperS]

I am a bit older than 13 and was around before it was normal to run off crying to the doctor when a bit depressed, we lived through war, the death of friends and loved ones, the loss of countrymen in air crashes and massacres and the only crutch we had was beer!

I think that the result for most of us is a stronger, tougher individual who is not afraid to take chances and go out and get what he wants.

I do not mean to belittle the guys on this site but i feel that these problems are mental and that one can, through the strength of one's mind and personality overcome almost anything.

The use of meds and "counselling" seems, to me, to remove the blame (accountability) from the individual and say that it is ok to be depressed and that you must withdraw and be unique on your own in the corner! It is your father/Society/crime/the lying bitch/your job/yer mam's fault, not yours! There, there.

Get over it, move on and above all else enjoy yourself!!!

Oh, and PS - Do NOT use a helmet and lycra playgros when riding bycycles recreationally

[LoneGunman]

CooperS
saying 'get over it' - is to make the assumption that everyone is ABLE
to do this - which simply isn't the case. You may be able to cope with
adversity, and perceive meds and 'counseling' as 'removing the
blame' from the individual - but, frankly, thats a mentally unhealthy
point of view in the first place.

How can you 'blame' someone if they are unable to cope? What kind of
a person does that make you? Do you seriously believe that someone
who's unable to deal with aspects of reality, is faking it - or is somehow
'trying to avoid responsibility'?

Thats way too simplistic a viewpoint to be considered with any seriousness.
And its a bit like dancing in front of people in wheelchairs.

See, 'I can dance' you say - 'therefore, why can't you'?

Not everyone is the same. Some folks are able to be sociopaths
and have zero compassion for others, and dress it up as 'manly behavior'
or try to make peoples often justifiable unhappiness, seem like a deliberate
act of 'avoiding something'.

If anything, your viewpoint, is downright bizarre.

Usually, I'd agree, taking responsibility for ones actions is a necessary thing -
but when it comes to mental problems, that often simply isn't possible.

Its total clinical denial, to believe that you can overcome a perceptual problem,
by using the very organ (the mind) which provides the perception in the first place.

Like blaming someone who doesn't know they need glasses, for their fuzzy eyesight.

Luckily the modern SA, is hopefully becoming less psychotic than the past,
where people - perhaps like yourself - were forced to repress their feelings,
and made to believe that using alcohol as a depressant, could ever work permanently,
and also try and make themselves feel better by telling themselves how 'manly' they were.

We live in a much more saner and civilized world now. And its good that people can
communicate their needs, and get help, and become happier people, in the process.

There's no virtue in suffering. That idea is perverse - its clinical masochism. 'Suffering'
doesn't always make stronger people, what tends to happen is: you get people whose
minds are broken and damaged, and they don't even know it.
But they end up in lives without joy, happiness or fun, full of fears and angst..

So keep that pseudo-macho bogus-romantic idea of 'people must fix themselves' to yourself, methinks.
:P

[CooperS]

So keep that pseudo-macho bogus-romantic idea of 'people must fix themselves' to yourself, methinks.
:P

I see that very little can be gained by sentences like the above, if my opinion differs to yours discuss it, don't resort to name-calling. Definately not "bogus-romantic" or any other type of romantic.

If you fall in the sea, best you learn to swim pretty damn quickly! No use trying to get out so that you can get some drugs to help.

Suppose some people need "counseling" and cotton wool to survive in this harsh world! Maybe it is because feminism is imasculating you and racism is having other adverse effects.

We, the male of the specis, are programmed to be striong by evolution. A couple of years of civilised veneer does not disable the instinct within us and perhaps the purpose of meds is to bypass this instict to make us more mallable.

I may, in your eyes, be wrong, but i come frome a different time and place where one was given rules and margins and left up to one's self to cope.

People these days take themselves and situations far too seriously and worry about things that they can't change. If they were only to focus on the things that they can influence they would be a lot happier! Life is great, you are young, fit (physically), live in a wonderful, vibrant country in an age that is fascinating and all you can think of is the crime situation and that some one shagged the bitch that you had on a pedistal.

Dancing in front of wheel chairs i am not, those poor sods have lost the use of their legs - others have lost the will to use their minds properly, there is a HUGE difference.

It is ironic that you view me as a sociopath with bizzare opinions when i am not the one on mind altering drugs! You will have to travel a long way to find someone with more compassion than me, i save it for the defensless and disadvantaged. NOT for someone who is in the top 2% of the world's advantaged population who is feeling sorry for himself! Especilally as that person has all he needs to help cope, mentally, that is.

As a matter of interest how many of you guys (for whom i have the deepest sympathy, by the way) were on Ritalin or similar at school? That stuff should be banned - take a child that is full of energy, imagination and joi de vive and surpress his personality because he does not fit into the narrow minded mold that the short sighted education system has created. Now there is a recipe for failure!

"We live in a much more saner and civilized world now" where people are running (and driving) around under the influence of mind altering drugs - oh good, we were all looking forward to that utopia!!

No wonder there are so many breakups - the girl finds out that the guy she loves does not exist without a regular fix!!

I never had any counselling or the like and if my mind is broken, then ok. I am happy, my life is not "without joy, happiness or fun, full of fears or angst". that sounds like a discription of the lives of the people that are seeking to be zombified by these miracle doctor and pharmaceutical company enriching "meds" that you are so keen on.

Excuse this post if it offends, i am stating my view. I feel quite strongly about this and it would seem that the LoneGunman wants to kill y'all with drugs and save on ammo.

I wonder how many good minds have been stifled by all this PC counselling and administering of wonder drugs!!

Anyway - all aside i see no case of these anti-depressants working for the good of anyone.

[CooperS]

I wake up every morning and force my self to make this conscious decision: Today, I can either let this day dictate to me, or I am going to dictate to this day. This day is mine, my gift to myself and no-one and nothing is going to take that away from me!!

.

[nthdimension]

the only crutch we had was beer!
Just another drug.


I do not mean to belittle the guys on this site but i feel that these problems are mental and that one can, through the strength of one's mind and personality overcome almost anything.
Amazingly, everyone has different brain chemistry. People prone to debilitating depression are likely to have deficiencies in certain neurochemicals. You may as well tell people that being a top athlete is just a matter of exercising enough.


The use of meds and "counselling" seems, to me, to remove the blame (accountability) from the individual and say that it is ok to be depressed and that you must withdraw and be unique on your own in the corner!
Just the opposite.

[Debbie]

CooperS, you speak of things which, by your own admission, you have never experienced.

[CooperS]

CooperS, you speak of things which, by your own admission, you have never experienced.

I have been involved in a war. I deal with this mentally without the need for drugs (the mention of beer was tongue in cheek - get it??). Sure sometimes i have "flash backs" and feel ****ty about it but one has to go on.

In have to work out of SA. As as an engineer (white) in the oil and gas indistry there is no decent work for me in SA. I am working 3 months with 2 weeks off in the middle east at the moment, I get "the morbs" occasionally, again, I deal with it.

I have a very demanding job with the responsibility for multi-million diollar installations and the scheduling thereof, again, i deal with it.

Do you mean that as i have never let the things that i have to be depressed about get to me i am wrong????

I do not feel that i am macho and have never said that it is easy i just think that the quacks are too quick to reach for the perscription pad these days.

[CooperS]

Just another drug.
Amazingly, everyone has different brain chemistry. People prone to debilitating depression are likely to have deficiencies in certain neurochemicals. You may as well tell people that being a top athlete is just a matter of exercising enough.
Just the opposite.

If you exercise phisically you become fit physically, yes, a top athlete no, but fit. I am not suggesting that everyone can become Einstein, just fit!

[Nanfeishen]

@ GaryB1 , you are stronger than most, and i admire your fortitude and perseverance , best wishes.
@ CooperS , unfortunately not everyone has the strength, or the now how to be introspective to the point of self assisting.
@LG ,I am also of the "older generation" i was also part of the "cowboys dont cry" generation. Those days, it WAS considered to be a sign of weakness, to discuss your personal issues, especially from a male point of view. Issues of the mind , or mental disorders were relagated to "sickness", "mental breakdowns", and often hospitalisation was required, or simply enforced. So for many who didnt wish to be institutionalised, or put on serious drugs in those days, the only answer for many of us was to "grin and bear it". The field of mental health, is not new , but the modernisation of thinking regarding many of the disorders has changed rapidly over the last 15 - 20 years, and so has the treatment and availability of help.
Its not so much of having no compasion for people suffering from mental disorders, but a lack of understanding on the part of our generation, of what to us were trivial if not totally unimportant issues to be overcome and dealt with, that in todays generation of young people, are much larger , and seemingly more pronounced.

My parents generation went through the war (WW2), and many issues , that i faced , they simply brushed off as growing up or teen angst, not realising that times changed and the issues themselves changed. Us older generation are doing much the same thing , in not realising that the pressures we faced are not the same as the pressure faced by the younger generation.

It often makes me wonder, that with the advent of talk shows, and magazine articles portraying so many disorders, and problems, that parents , teachers and many individuals themselves, dont often over play or exagerate many simple problems or minor disorders, and create larger one's.
I am not stating this is in all cases, but what percentage of issues could be treated simpler, or with relative ease, as opposed to going down the medicational route?.

On a personal note , i had to deal with many of my issues on my own, and i went down the drug route from the age of 13, you name it , i took it, the only thing i never did was stick a needle in my arm.
15 years of my life was spent in a stupor of some or other drug induced haze, but i was lucky and discovered another drug, Martial Arts.
It helped me ween myself off the substances, but it wasnt easy and it took me a number of years of training before i gave up daily usage.
One of the things i did come to learn, was that the mind is a powerful thing, but also incredibly weak, it can lift us up, and can drag us down, it can play tricks on us, convince us of things that are not there or lead us to percieve that there are things there that in reality arent.
It creates illusions and thoughts, and often the two can be come very intertwined and convincing, especially under stressfull conditions, through sleep deprevation and emotional highs and lows.
I have experienced things so real , that i thought (and still do sometimes) they were, only to discover that they were in my mind, and i have experienced reality to be so bizarre that i still have a problem believing it to be so.
I have experienced happiness so intense , that i thought i would never experience happiness so much again, and i have experienced sorrow so deep i thought i could never be happy again, all due to my mind.
All the advice i can offer to those of you going through various states of depression, or those of you trying to ween yourselves off some of the medication, is persevere. It is not easy , and withdrawal is very hard to deal with emotionally and psychologically. Wherever possible try and find natural remedies to replace the chemical ones.
Wherever possible and whenever possible, spend time with yourselves, spend time examining your mind , come to understand its idiosyncratic behaviour, learn to identify those thoughts actions or circumstances that lead you to feel depressed or anxious, and learn to fight them off , or learn to live with them on an equal footing , so they dont control you, but that you begin to control them.
Spend time with yourself, without the tv or radio or your PC, take a drive alone , go to new places visit a museum, art gallery or library, when you feel the need for companionship , do so, but learn , or train yourself to be able to spend time alone with yourself and be happy without outside influence or stimulation.
We humans have an incredible potential for self help and self healing, the trick is to find that key within ourselves and unlock that door within ourselves.

[kb]

CooperS, Let me put it this way - If we can accept that the brain is an organ just as is the pancreas for example and we accept that a malfunctioning pancreas can cause diabetes which requires medication to enable a person to function normally or even survive at all. Why can we not accept that the brain, which is a vastly more complex and less well understood organ, could not also be subject to some form of malfunction that could be assisted by medication?
As I have said before this is a very complex subject that even the medical profession seems not to understand well, so misdiagnosis in this area is likely to be more prevalent than in the analogy above. However there seems to be sufficient evidence that depression based on a neuro-chemical deficiency does in fact exist, so it is highly probable that many of those ascribing problems to depression are anything but weak minded individuals.

[CooperS]

I feel that any analogy comparing the brain to any other simple single function organ way too simplistic. The brain is far more complex and can be manipulated through willpower.

I accept that there are genuine cases of mental illness that cause the symptoms described, all i say is that there is no difference between the stress that a 20 year old feels today to the stress that my generation felt at 20. I can't see that it is possible that there is a higher percentage of mental illness in today's population.

The medical "profession" is good at diagnosing colds and fixing broken legs, beyond that they, with some exceptions, seem to be pretty incompetant at any form of diagnosis except post mortem.

Nanfeishen :
I disagree, everyone has the ability "to be introspective to the point of self assisting" they are just too lazy to find out how, it is far easier to go to the quack and get meds and then spend the next 20 years trying to get off them and deal with an extra problem.

[kb]

I feel that any analogy comparing the brain to any other simple single function organ way too simplistic. The brain is far more complex and can be manipulated through willpower.

I agree no direct comparison can be made, however I stand by the analogy insofar as establishing the existence of the possibility (probability) that the brain as an organ could be assisted under certain circumstances by medical interventions.

[mikef]

..., all i say is that there is no difference between the stress that a 20 year old feels today to the stress that my generation felt at 20.

I disagree with your statement above. (I don't know when your generation was 20 :) ) Assuming that this was say 5 years ago then the amount of information that a 20 year old needs to process today is most likely more than double. In addition a person is consistently exposed to conflicting viewpoints and beliefs. This information overload in my opinion certainly contributes to stress.

[DarKWateR]

If you fall in the sea, best you learn to swim pretty damn quickly! No use trying to get out so that you can get some drugs to help.

....If you know you can't swim don't go near the water without a lifejacket

[CooperS]

I agree no direct comparison can be made, however I stand by the analogy insofar as establishing the existence of the possibility (probability) that the brain as an organ could be assisted under certain circumstances by medical interventions.

Drugs should be the absolute last resort, not the first!!

[CooperS]

I disagree with your statement above. (I don't know when your generation was 20 :) ) Assuming that this was say 5 years ago then the amount of information that a 20 year old needs to process today is most likely more than double. In addition a person is consistently exposed to conflicting viewpoints and beliefs. This information overload in my opinion certainly contributes to stress.


A wee bit more than 5 years i am pleased to say!

HTH has the information to be processed doubled in 5 years?

The amount of information that one absorbs is up to the individual, i see no correlation between the access to information and viewpoints and increased stress levels! Stress is as debilatating as we allow it to be.

[CooperS]

....If you no you can't swim don't go near the water without a lifejacket

OR learn to swim beforehand

[kb]

Drugs should be the absolute last resort, not the first!!

Agreed.


.. all i say is that there is no difference between the stress that a 20 year old feels today to the stress that my generation felt at 20. I can't see that it is possible that there is a higher percentage of mental illness in today's population.

Like mikef I disagree here, though I believe his is only one of numerous reasons. Here is but one of my observations - Our lifestyles have become significantly more sedentary over the past 20 years and as has been mentioned previously physical activity can be an important tool in coping with problems such as stress, anxiety and depression. Day to day living often entailed a greater degree of physical activity providing another natural means of coping without having to apply any willpower.
I think here we could go on forever finding things that have changed that have affected our stress levels over the past 20 years and will agree on some and disagree on others.


The medical "profession" is good at diagnosing colds and fixing broken legs, beyond that they, with some exceptions, seem to be pretty incompetant at any form of diagnosis except post mortem.

Sometimes I have to agree here:)

We also need to accept that as our physical bodies differ vastly and some of us require medication to stay healthy, so to do our brains differ sufficiently to the extent that simple will power is insufficient to enable all of us to cope with mental illness.

[Random717]

A question to those on medication, if it is working stably, would starting something like a new exercise regime affect the effects they had on you?

Does it reach a point where once you have found some sort of balance where things work, you cannot deviate too much in your life activities as it might make everything go awry?

[noxibox]

Does it reach a point where once you have found some sort of balance where things work, you cannot deviate too much in your life activities as it might make everything go awry?
If anything once the chemical imbalance has been corrected with medication the individual can take more emotional risks.

[CooperS]

If anything once the chemical imbalance has been corrected with medication the individual can take more emotional risks.

Is this "chemical imbalance" measured and corrected?

[DarKWateR]

My early side effects have seem to come down.... :) ... so atleast I don't feel as sick

[kb]

Is this "chemical imbalance" measured and corrected?

Assesment is usually done by clinical diagnosis and corrected by medication (yes inexact I know). "Chemical imbalance" whils't being a commonly used term to refer to the condition, probably does not convey the correct meaning. It seems that it is caused by defective receptors in the brain that are unable to properly utilise the chemical serotonin. There are numerous articles available on the net that describe the underlying mechanisms and the studies used to confirm them.
Here is one.
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/serotonin/genetic.html

[kb]

My early side effects have seem to come down.... :) ... so atleast I don't feel as sick

Pleased to hear that. Now just take it day by day and keep things closely monitored.

[DarKWateR]

Pleased to hear that. Now just take it day by day and keep things closely monitored.

Will do...still feel a little buzzy....but seem to be ok..

[Rex Regis]

Will do...still feel a little buzzy....but seem to be ok..

Good to hear you are feeling a bit better Dark :)

[DarKWateR]

Thanks

[dotVIBE]

good to hear you are a bit better DW. keep us posted.

This thread was turned out quite interesting, maybe a bit off topic by now, but its always good to see knowledge shared.

[LoneGunman]

make sure, when coming off the tabs, that you're drinking at least a liter and a half of water a day -
yeah you'll pee a lot, but this quantity of water is
needed daily anyway - and especially to help flush residue and toxins out of your body..

PS. 'cold drinks' or 'coffee' is NOT the same as 'just water' :P

[DarKWateR]

make sure, when coming off the tabs, that you're drinking at least a liter and a half of water a day -
yeah you'll pee a lot, but this quantity of water is
needed daily anyway - and especially to help flush residue and toxins out of your body..

PS. 'cold drinks' or 'coffee' is NOT the same as 'just water' :P

will try that...still not really hungry though

[LoneGunman]

re water and the human body - think 'oil' and 'car engine' -
roughly the same principle :)
It won't hurt you, and it'll speed up the process of
'normalizing' your system, as well as providing the
basic 'proper' liquid that ones body needs on a daily
basis.

[a-person]

just smoke pot man

[nthdimension]

just smoke pot man
While there may be nothing wrong with recreational drugs in general they are not the best recourse for someone in emotional turmoil.


However no-one who is depressed should be starting on any recreational drugs, legal or illegal. Best learn how to handle the fun stuff when your head is on straight.
Agreed.

[dablakmark8]

It can take 7 days to settle down, but you may also have been started on a dose that is too high. If this persists for more than 7 days you should call your doctor and discuss reducing the dose until you acclimatise. Doctors often start people on doses of anti-depressants that are too high. Some people tolerate them better than others so it is hard for a doctor to know exactly what dose to use.

Not all anti-depressants work equally well on all people. There is quite a wide range available, unfortunately most are SSRIs. Thankfully the pharmaceutical companies do occasionally do real research and come up with drugs that have a different mechanism of action.
some might not work anymore due to the fact that if you took alot of mdma in the past,it will be a long road,believe me i know,
the road to recovery is not in antidepressants ,but in herbal remedies.
ASk a doctor for another way,You feeling good..i think it an enzyme (dopamine)is very limited in you brain.And to produce this takes a wile....So what i am saying is herbal remedy's.

[dablakmark8]

When I got divorced I found the best thing was close friends and a few good nights out. It took me the better part of 6 months to get over it but I'm fine now although many wouldn't agree;)

I did that to.(not take me six months..maybe...mm...4 months) I have a strong mind so i dont get depressed ever,no matter how bad life is,
All i tell myself is that life was meant to be this way,this is life.you can change the outcome .
juggy what happens when you are alone in a house then your mind wanders..mm

[LoneGunman]

just remember, a good definition of madness is

"Doing the same thing, and expecting a different result."

Therefore, change your routine(s) - deliberately do NEW things,
go experience NEW things (be it social, or a holiday, or just finding
NEW things to do), to get you out of your same daily patterns and
routines.

yes its comfortable hiding in routine - however, you aren't going
to change anything by staying in the same routines, patterns
and behaviors.

If you're normally sitting at home, go to the theatre, or a movie,
or take that 2 day trip somewhere, or if you don't usually read,
get a book.. or if you don't walk, go walk. Take up that hobby
you always wanted to do. Decide to go visit that friend
or relative in some other town, just for the hell of it. Go see
the part of the country you always promised yourself you'd do
some day. Do SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

Change your routine and patterns, and you will get a NEW result.

It may not be 'better' necessarily, but it will give you a better probability
of resulting in a DIFFERENT outcome and perspective, than if you just sit
at home, and do exactly the same as you always did, and somehow
'expect things to turn out differently'.

They'll only be DIFFERENT, if you do things DIFFERENTLY.

Otherwise, you're fighting against the natural urge to 'do exactly
what you always did', in reality - and yet consistently ending up
wondering why nothing is changing for you.

[Debbie]

just smoke pot man

DW DO NOT smoke weed or for that matter take anything illicit, and also beware of taking other prescription medications. This is very serious, a person is playing with their life (see the pun, huh, huh). Antidepressants interact with other things and the potential for serious adverse reactions is high.

I feel I need to belabour the point to not smoke weed- there are plenty of reports of people having seizures and losing consciousness after smoking weed while on antidepressants.

----
CooperS, I recommend you read Future Shock by Alvin Toffler, I'm sure you'll find it interesting wrt changing society.

[nthdimension]

There are a wide variety of different anti-depressants. Which ones specifically interact negatively with THC to cause seizures? Interested to see whether this is a common interaction or extremely rare.

[Debbie]

Effexor for one, which is a SSNRI (in high doses, also affects dopamine). I don't know what the mechanisms are that cause such.

[CooperS]

I did that to.(not take me six months..maybe...mm...4 months) I have a strong mind so i dont get depressed ever,no matter how bad life is,
All i tell myself is that life was meant to be this way,this is life.you can change the outcome .
juggy what happens when you are alone in a house then your mind wanders..mm


Surely that is why the woman usually takes the house, they feel sorry for their ex and don't want them to be lonely! :rolleyes:

[CooperS]

CooperS, I recommend you read Future Shock by Alvin Toffler, I'm sure you'll find it interesting wrt changing society.


Changing society has nothing to do with the current debate, my issue is whether there is anything wrong with people that are being zombified with this medication that can not, imnsho, be doing them ANY good. I would have thought that endorphins would do more good than the shyte that ppl are ingesting!

I can't see that young people have anything worse to handle than the rest of us.

I wonder what the percentage of young white males on these drugs is, any ideas?

[kb]

Changing society has nothing to do with the current debate, my issue is whether there is anything wrong with people that are being zombified with this medication that can not, imnsho, be doing them ANY good. I would have thought that endorphins would do more good than the shyte that ppl are ingesting!


Changing society has much to do with this issue in that provides an environment in which there are far more triggers for the condition imo.

So that we can move this forward, can we accept that it has been established that there are real physical causes that predispose certain people to depression and that there are medications if prescribed appropriately can be useful in treating the condition?

Your issue then rather is over whether there is a high degree of misdiagnosis and subsequent inappropriate and over prescription of anti-depressant drugs?

I believe I previously posted that if one found that one was existing on the drugs in a zombified state that a reassessment was neccessary and a change should be made.

What I cannot agree with is your black or white assertion that we are all equipped with the necessary willpower to overcome the condition and that these drugs are unneccessary. Kindly correct me if this last statement is not what you are implying but it is the conclusion that I have drawn from your previous posts.


I can't see that young people have anything worse to handle than the rest of us.

Agreed, we are all exposed to the same issues at a particular time. We are just all different when it comes to our coping skills be they physical attributes or environmental conditioning.


I wonder what the percentage of young white males on these drugs is, any ideas?

IIRC it is in fact the older generation where depression is more prevalent.

[BeVonk!]

Depression is no respecter of age or generation. It hits society at all levels ... old/young ... rich/poor There are today millions of "old" people on anti-depressants - so anyone trying to make it out to be a modern younger generational thing is way over par. I personally know a person (age 60) who cannot for one day be off her anti-depression meds. Without it she will be completely disfunctional. The meds allow her to live a normal life with her family. For someone sitting out there in a desert to come and tell this person that she's just pathetic and weak - and need to pull herself together - is pure undiluted arrogance - and very insensitive. One of the negative side effects of the meds discussed here is the loss of sensitivity/feeling/care/emotion. Clearly some people are in such a state without the meds.

As I've said in this thread I am extremely wary of these drugs. I will not accept it as a normalised first line of defence. I do believe it is over prescribed - and ill understood. I believe a lot of harm is done by the meds in many cases (as my own story proves) - but I will never deny the place for such meds in our society - and I will never accuse those using it as being weak and less of a man. It takes a man to know and acknowledge his weaknesses - and do something about it. Many ot the youngsters using these meds today comes from homes where dad never acknowledged his depression - and never seeked help - as it was seen as a weakness and unmanly at the time (it was more manly to use alcohol and tobacco to chase away the noonday demon). If these dads got the medical help they required the kids may never have needed it.

[surreytj]

What an interesting thread, just read the whole thing. Now for my 2c

Dark - I've also been depressed for almost 9 years now. At first I tried to handle it but it just got worse and worse. Went to a GP and it was a mistake bec they kept giving me meds that didn't work. Its great you went to a psychiatrist bec thats what I did after a year of trying a GP, which is the best decision.

We tried almost everything and finally the one that worked for me was Solian. Its an anti psychotic but at low doses it works on depression. I also had side effects like heightened anxiety on most of them but Solian is the one that worked.

Keep at it bec if this med doesn't work for you something else will. I couldn't function properly before the meds. My dad and 1 of his sisters is Bipolar and another sister had numerous breakdowns so unfortunately for some of us our genes work against us.

I also saw a psychologist for about 2 years which helped quite a bit. They don't put the blame on anybody they make you understand things and situations more.

One thing you shouldn't do is cut yourself off from socialising bec I made that mistake. Its makes it so much harder to get back again.

Exercising is a must. It will help with your recovery. Keep at it and it will get better. Let us know how you get on.

[DarKWateR]

My throat is messed...I can barely eat....it really hurts

[dotVIBE]

get some yoghurt in and call your psych or a gp first thing tomorrow morning. remember, it might be prozac related, it might not be.

all the best mate, remember that we're rooting for you.

[Nanfeishen]

There are a wide variety of different anti-depressants. Which ones specifically interact negatively with THC to cause seizures? Interested to see whether this is a common interaction or extremely rare.

Some passages:

Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine, or 5-HT) is a monoamine neurotransmitter synthesized in serotonergic neurons in the central nervous system (CNS) and enterochromaffin cells in the gastrointestinal tract.
Explanation
In the central nervous system, serotonin is believed to play an important role in the regulation of body temperature, mood, sleep, vomiting, sexuality, and appetite. Low levels of serotonin have been associated with several disorders, namely clinical depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), migraine, irritable bowel syndrome, tinnitus, fibromyalgia, bipolar disorder, and anxiety disorders.
-------------------------------------------
In the field of neurochemistry, 5-HT receptors are receptors for the neurotransmitter and peripheral signal mediator serotonin (5-HT). 5-HT receptors are located on the cell membrane of nerve cells and other cell types in animals and mediate the effects of serotonin as the endogenous ligand and of a broad range of pharmaceutical and hallucinogenic drugs. With the exception of the 5-HT3 receptor, a ligand gated ion channel, all other 5-HT receptors are G protein coupled seven transmembrane (or heptahelical) receptors that activate an intracellular second messenger cascade.
5-HT1 receptors are Gi/Go coupled, mediating cellular effects through decreasing cellular levels of cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP).
5-HT2 receptors are Gq/G11 coupled, mediating cellular effects through increasing cellular levels of inositol trisphosphate (IP3) and diacylglycerol (DAG). Three subtypes exist, namely 5-HT2A, 5-HT2B, and 5-HT2C (formerly called 5-HT1C).
The 5-HT3 receptor is a ligand-gated Na+ and K+ cation channel, resulting in a direct plasma membrane depolarization.
The 5-HT4 receptor is Gs coupled, mediating cellular effects through increasing cellular levels of cAMP.
The 5-HT5A receptor is G protein coupled; the primary coupling appears to be through Gi/o, inhibiting adenylate cyclase activity.[8] The 5-HT5B subtype exists, but has not been detected in humans.
The 5-HT7 receptor is Gs coupled, mediating cellular effects through increasing cellular levels of cAMP.
-------------------------------------------
SSRIs increase the extracellular level of the neurotransmitter serotonin by inhibiting its reuptake into the presynaptic cell, increasing the level of serotonin available to bind to the postsynaptic receptor. They have varying degrees of selectivity for the other monoamine transporters, having little binding affinity for the noradrenaline and dopamine transporters.
They are pharmacologically similar to methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) and other reuptake inhibiting drugs. They act in a similar way by allowing chemicals to stay in synapses longer.
To stimulate the recipient cell, SSRIs inhibit the reuptake of serotonin. As a result, the serotonin stays in the synaptic gap longer than it normally would, and has the chance to be recognized again (and again) by the receptors of the recipient cell, which can finally be stimulated fully.
------------------------------------------
THC:
Its pharmacological actions are the result of its binding to the cannabinoid receptor CB1, located in the brain.
The cannabinoid receptors are a class of receptors under the G-protein coupled receptor superfamily. Their ligands are known as cannabinoids
Physiological roles
GPCRs are involved in a wide variety of physiological processes. They can be grouped into 4 classes based on structural homology and functional similarity: Class A (rhodopsin-like), Class B (secretin-like), Class C (metabotropic/pheromone), and Class D (Fungal pheromone). Some examples of their physiological roles include:
the visual sense: the opsins use a photoisomerization reaction to translate electromagnetic radiation into cellular signals. Rhodopsin, for example, uses the conversion of 11-cis-retinal to all-trans-retinal for this purpose.
the sense of smell: receptors of the olfactory epithelium bind odorants (olfactory receptors) and pheromones (vomeronasal receptors)
behavioral and mood regulation: receptors in the mammalian brain bind several different neurotransmitters, including serotonin, dopamine, GABA and glutamate.
regulation of immune system activity and inflammation: chemokine receptors bind ligands that mediate intercellular communication between cells of the immune system; receptors such as histamine receptors bind inflammatory mediators and engage target cell types in the inflammatory response
autonomic nervous system transmission: both the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems are regulated by GPCR pathways. These systems are responsible for control of many automatic functions of the body such as blood pressure, heart rate and digestive processes.
------------------------------------------
the above was all sourced from wikki.




If you have a look at the section on THC you will see that the cannabinoid receptors are a class of receptors under the G-protein coupled receptor superfamily, in field of neurochemistry, all the 5-HT (Serotonin) are G-protein coupled , except for one.
You can see that THC also has an effect on the mammilian brain (Humans) binding several different neurotransmitters, including serotonin, dopamine, GABA and glutamate.
There may be a reaction, between the one odd 5-HT receptor, and THC, or they may in fact also be giving the same "orders", in a sense, and creating a "neutral" state, leading to the possibility of siezures.
Most of the articles i found relating to THC, show it has lot of similar effects on the body to anti-depressants, but it carries very few of the physical side effects attributed to many SSRI's, such as liver damage, decreased sexual drive, and the decreasing of dopamine, which effects the pleasure cntres of the body.
There may be much more chemical related info out there, but i am not that qualified to go into it all.

[Xpilz]

not everyone is as fortunate, there are those like myself who have to rely on meds for the health benefit. There are individuals who dabble with these drugs unneedlessly and doctors who abuse them, dispensing them to one and all for the slightest complaint. I was diagnosed at the age of 20, I am now 29, each day is something carefully managed. I dispise the medicine, an evil I have to live with and accept.

This is my experience, my knowledge, some of it:

I have been on prozac and from the onset I knew it didn't agree with me. I would say anyone experiencing anxiety to start off with should steer clear of this medication, it exacerbated my state to the point that I became highly agitated and suicidal.

Each persons experience with a drug will be different just as our genetics differ.

My suggestion is that if it causes severe comfort of any sort then discuss it with our doctor!

There are always other alternatives.

[garyb01]

Hey all.

Isn't it just amazing. Just the other day I was posting in this thread and the other one about "Defending males" about how I am making a conscious decision to make the best of every day, about how I lost everything but have a new wife, new family and how I have never been happier, found the one person that I know was the right one for me, someone to spend the rest of my natural life with..............................and............. .....BAM!!! Life turns around and kicks you straight in the teeth!

Came home this morning, by chance, to find my wife packing up her stuff and leaving. Out of the blue, no warning what so ever. No indication, no reason other than "she feels trapped". Good grief, I gave up everything to be with this woman for ever. As all married couples do, we have had our problems in the past but for the last 6 months everything has been going great!

Honestly guys, I don't know if I am going to come out of this one on the other side. I am absolutely and completely devastated!!

[dotVIBE]

wow man, that's hardcore.

The problem is, we often end up blaming ourselves as we go through the grief cycle, forgetting that it is probably the other person who is at fault, and not ourselves.

The only advice I can think of is to allow yourself to feel the things you are supposed to be feeling. Be sad, be ANGRY, don't hold back. You are in for a rough time regardless. As long as you realise that it is going to be rough, and that it is going to take time to go through it, you'll be OK in the end.

Not much consolation, but then how can you really be consoled at this point?

Good luck buddy, and find someone to talk to and vent some steam.

[LoneGunman]

There're other layers, that you need to consider - there's the dent to ones
self esteem, as well as the 'rug pulled out from underneath one' sensation,
which messes with the belief in the solidity of 'day to day reality'..

Allow yourself, as said, the anger, and the grief - as its a mourning period
you're going to be going through, mourning the death of a relationship,
instead of a person. But also mourning the death of the ideals and illusions
which you may have had about the relationship.

The only vague consolation, is that you, at least, behaved honestly in
the relationship. People don't just decide overnight to pack up and leave.

So she was the dishonest one, keeping her plans to herself, and lying
as she came closer and closer to the point of physically 'moving out'.

You should keep in mind that, if anything, you didn't and don't want someone
in your life, who can behave like that with your feelings - and operate so
dishonestly.

Maybe its time to go and take a three day trip someplace else, if you can.

Anything but sitting and doing self-criticism in the environment that the
person has psychically fouled like that. Get a locksmith, change the locks,
then pack a bag, and go sit on a beach and watch waves - or do something
to physically take you away from that enviroment and literally 'give you a perspective'
- if you can.

Don't just sit in the same environment and hope that your grief and thinking
will somehow get better. Take some practical steps to wipe off the horrible
baggage that the person has thoughtlessly decided to try and leave you with.

Try and avoid drinking, as that almost never helps, in matters of emotional pain.

The object of it all, from here on, is to stay the good person you were, and are -
and not to turn into the person who hurt you. You know?

Just coz one person is dishonest, and callous, that doesn't mean everyone else IS.

[dotVIBE]

yip, what he said ^

[BeVonk!]

Hi garyb01,

From my own experience I know no words can fix the situation or feelings you're experiencing right now - but I do beg that you keep on writing here ... or pm me and others here if you prefer keeping things private. Just don't give up. You've come through it before and can do it again.

[garyb01]

Hey Guys.

Thanks to all for the words of encouragement and support and the advice given. It never ceases to amaze me how faceless, nameless strangers are so willing to route for someone and actually give a damn.

To be honest, this is the very last thing that I expected in my life. The worst is telling my kids. They have all come to love and accept her as their Mother. I haven't had the composure to break it to them yet. I tried getting hold of her, just to chat and try and see if we can't do something, anything to talk, to find out if anything can be done, but nothing. No answer, no reply.

Guys, I really appreciate all the advice and the support. Somehow just knowing that someone out there is providing support and has compassion for your situation, makes things a lot easier to accept and deal with.

I am going to ask that you excuse me for a while, I will return to the forum soon, but right now I am an emotional mess and to make it worse I cant show any of it because I dont want to upset my kids or let them see me upset.

I am going to take the advice and take some alone time and sort my thoughts and emotions out, get away for a bit, go for a run, get my priorities straightened out. At least, and this is my saving grace, I still have three of the most loving and beautiful kids a man could ever ever hope to have, who don't think that their old man is half bad and I need to sort things out with them as well.

I will post again as soon as I can and will let you all know how things turn out.

[Nanfeishen]

Hey GaryB01 , sorry to hear your bad news bud, but like the others have said , keep writing, get it out, dont bottle up. (in both senses)
The one thing that comes across strongly from your posts, is your sense of humour and your realistic, pragmatic view of life, let that work for you, and dont, dont blame yourself.

[LoneGunman]

GaryB01 - take care - and don't forget to clearly let your kids know that
regardless of whatever is occurring with your ex-partner and you, that
you will ALWAYS be there for them.

Don't let them get the idea that you might do to them,
what this person's done to you guys, you know?

Even if they're not 'asking for any reassurance' - its kind've important for
the good mental health of kids (depending on their ages & levels of
comprehension) to know for certain,
that YOU will always be there for them. They must have no doubts of the
guaranteed stability of YOUR relationship with THEM.

That way round, you end up with the support of well-adjusted kids who
feel stable, secure, and assured of certain key parts of their world (namely - YOU) and
your connection with them.

Good luck.

[ToxicBunny]

I echo everyone elses sentiments here garyb01. Keep on writing here, feel what you need to feel. Alot of people here are rooting for you.

I can only imagine what you are going through after just having gone through a very rough break up myself....

[garyb01]

Hey everyone.

Thank you once again to everyone for your kind words of support, advice and encouragement. I don't think that I can adequately describe in one post, how much it all meant, and how much it helped, so once again, thank you from the bottom of my heart to each and every one of you.

Surprisingly enough, I have been able to move through the grieving steps quite quickly and I have reached a stage of acceptance of the situation within myself, which is very surprising. I am your typical bull-by-the-horns Aries and normally I would be readying myself for a good fight!!

What can you do? You cant force someone to stay with you in a relationship and /or marriage if they are not happy. Their unhappiness transcends into that relationship and everything and everyone else is then unhappy and uncomfortable because of that.

I decided to put all hurt and hostility that I was feeling towards my wife to one side and try my best to be there for her in what is also a very difficult time for her. If you consider it very carefully, doing what she has and making the decision that she has, is not easy for her either. Its going to happen, whether I fight it and act bitter towards her or not. So I decided to be the best friend to her that I can be and be as amicable as possible. This is still the person that I love more than anything else in life (my kids excluded of course) and her decision does not change that. Her happiness is of paramount importance to me because she is so important to me, and if this choice is going to make her happy, then I am going to support her and be there for her as best I can.

We had a long chat today and I understand what she is experiencing and feeling and actually do understand why this is happening which is something that I would never have known if I decided to fight her or be hostile towards her.

We came to an understanding that she will still be fully involved in the lives of my kids and that we will never lose our friendship and our ability to talk and communicate with each other.

Many may say that is is stupid on my side and that I am being used etc etc, but this is not true. It is helping me to heal and to face this trial in the right way and helping me to have a positive attitude about everything, and in doing so, I get to keep the best friend that I have ever had, get to keep my sanity and my self respect and my kids get to keep the person that they love as a mother, in their lives as well.

Yes, I am going to miss her, miss the relationship and the times we had etc, but its a chance for a new beginning and new times. Those times we had will always be ours and nothing will ever change that and at the very least we are entering a new chapter of our lives as a team, as friends and not as enemies.

Once again, thank you to all and for the ability to express myself on this forum and get my feelings out there. Its the best therapy one could ever ask for.

Oh and if there are any singles out there....a not too bad guy has just come onto the market...........:D :D

[LoneGunman]

Good to hear from you, and that things seem to be getting resolved.

More importantly, perhaps now's a good time to do some timeout with
your kids, you know? Bond with them - maybe scoop 'em up, go with
them to somewhere with fun and pools and people and laughs.. Spend
some 'time-out' with them, and out of the situation, if that's possible.

For everyones mental health, especially now that things appear to have
been talked out with your ex, and have reached a point of agreement.
You need a break from it, as do your kids. Know any weekend holiday
resorts you can spend a day or two at, with kids splashing and having fun,
while you ogle losklippies ambling by, and soak up the sun?
Just a thought..

But keep in control of your feelings, just because you've talked it out,
doesn't always mean the negative emotions or feelings, are concluded
and resolved within you - you may well have a bit of a downturn -
its natural, so tread cautiously with yourself. No getting mindlessly drunk just yet.
Be good to yourself, and your kids.
A new chapter is starting for you guys, and yeah you didnt want it, but you have
it now, regardless - and its up to you how much fun it is for all of you..

[garyb01]

Good to hear from you, and that things seem to be getting resolved.

More importantly, perhaps now's a good time to do some timeout with
your kids, you know? Bond with them - maybe scoop 'em up, go with
them to somewhere with fun and pools and people and laughs.. Spend
some 'time-out' with them, and out of the situation, if that's possible.

For everyones mental health, especially now that things appear to have
been talked out with your ex, and have reached a point of agreement.
You need a break from it, as do your kids. Know any weekend holiday
resorts you can spend a day or two at, with kids splashing and having fun,
while you ogle losklippies ambling by, and soak up the sun?
Just a thought..

But keep in control of your feelings, just because you've talked it out,
doesn't always mean the negative emotions or feelings, are concluded
and resolved within you - you may well have a bit of a downturn -
its natural, so tread cautiously with yourself. No getting mindlessly drunk just yet.
Be good to yourself, and your kids.
A new chapter is starting for you guys, and yeah you didnt want it, but you have
it now, regardless - and its up to you how much fun it is for all of you..

I echo every word that you have said, and that is exactly how I am going to approach it. Thank you for your kind and wise words. Here's to having a great weekend and looking to a future with endless possibilities. ;)

Cheers

[BeVonk!]

When you really love someone you have to let that person go. If he/she then returns out of free will true love will be mutual (going in both directions). True love must set free and never bind. True love never manipulates and overrides the free will of the other party. The other party must be free to love you - or not.

Warning: Christian/religious comment follows ... :)

This is how God deals with man.

[BeVonk!]

On a lighter note ...

Someone has said that a neurotic is a person who builds fantasy houses, a psychotic is someone who builds fantasy houses and lives in them, and a psychiatrist is someone who charges rent.

Sorry DarKWateR ... I know you said "No Jokes" :)

[garyb01]

On a lighter note ...

Someone has said that a neurotic is a person who builds fantasy houses, a psychotic is someone who builds fantasy houses and lives in them, and a psychiatrist is someone who charges rent.

Sorry DarKWateR ... I know you said "No Jokes" :)

:) :)

[CooperS]

Sorry to read about the R.W.E. that you now find yourself in Gary! Good luck

[garyb01]

Sorry to read about the R.W.E. that you now find yourself in Gary! Good luck

Thanks Dude.

YIP, a RWE it really is, but I have made a promise to myself that I am not going to let it get me down, or withdraw myself into some dark crevice or corner and sulk. Have had a few RWE's in my life time and well, experience had taught that it doesn't help to harp on about it. Experience the hurt, the loss, the experience itself, soak it all up and learn from it! At least you know that you are alive! Move on! Enjoy and live every breath you take!!

Anyway, thanks again, oh and @ Darkwater: Sorry dude, realized that I sort of jacked your thread, really wasn't my intention. Just carried on telling my story because of the previous posts in this thread. Hope that all is going well with you!!

You all have a good weekend now, I know that I am!!!!;)

[Nanfeishen]

@GaryB01 glad to hear you are doing better,

To return to some of the original topic, i was wondering how many of you are or consider using natural remedies, such as 5 Htp replacement tablets, in lieu of chemical medication?

As some of you know, i am fairly involved with Tai Chi, and this has led me to follow TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) in treatment of ailments , as opposed to western methods.
I have a 2 part book, called "The Essential Book of Traditional Chinese Medicine" by Liu Yanchi, it is very detailed on herbs and Acupuncture tecniques. In looking up depression, i found:

In TCM , depression is linked to insomnia, and is treated accordingly.
"Etiology"
Insomnia can result from:
*Insufficiency of vital energy(Qi) and blood caused by mental strain and by dysfuntion of the spleen and heart.
*Disharmony of the heart and kidney caused by protracted illness or asthenia that leads to consumption of vital essence of the kidneys and exuberance of vital funtion of the heart.
*Defiency of vital energy of the heart and gallbladder causing agitation of the mind.
*Upward flaring of liver fire because of mental depression.
*Retention of phlegm-heat because of improper diet and impairment of the stomach and intestines.

The treatments given, are all herbal, (latin names), and you would need a good herbologist to get all the ingredients me thinks, but the essence of it all, is that they treat the particular organs and therefore eradicate the symptoms of disease.
i.e. By treating the liver , or having a good liver tonic may help treat some of the depression.

There are also acupuncture procedures that can be done, by a qualified acupuncturist.
Just an alternate option.

[Debbie]

DW how are the antidepressants going? I started an additional one about the same time as you, I can definitely notice a difference for the better. I don't seem to be experiencing any of the more terrible side effects, so I'm happy with this one thus far. Glad that there's been no zombification, but it's still early so will wait and see.

Thank god* for these things.

*/pete/allah/supreme being/heavens etc

[dotVIBE]

Yeah, thank goodness for these things.

@nanfeishen

The problem with those medications is that you cannot use them in conjuction with the chemical stuff that people like me are on. And going off the medication is far to big a risk to take ot try something else. If I stopped my medication tomorrow and didn't take anything for 4 weeks, I lose 6 months to a year of my life trying to get back to where I am.

I know because i've done that, more than once.

and btw, you cannot have acupuncture while on anti depp. meds. Something in the painkiller/nerve stuff on the needles does not mix well with most anti depressants.

@Darkwater, give us an update dude, would love to hear from ya.

@Gary - you too guy!

[kb]

Glad that there's been no zombification, but it's still early so will wait and see.


In my experience the zombification that is spoken about is a much longer term effect of these meds. It's a state where you are going through life never experiencing any real highs nor lows as far as mood goes. It is very easy to just continue with the meds in this state as there is no motivation to change. This is where you need to be very honest with yourself and your practitioner and imo should look to coming off the meds once a suitable period of mood stability has been achieved.

Remember this is my view based on personal experience and whilst coming off the meds was done rather more quickly than recommended it was still done with my doc's knowledge.


To return to some of the original topic, i was wondering how many of you are or consider using natural remedies, such as 5 Htp replacement tablets, in lieu of chemical medication?


Been using 5Htp for a couple of months on and off. Hard to say if it is it alone or a combination of factors that has resulted in the improvement. Remember 5Htp's function is to increase serotonin levels whils't as I understand the conventional meds work on the serotonin mechanisms in the brain. I know there are warnings in the 5Htp literature not to use in conjunction with conventional meds without consulting your doc.

All those still on the stuff, stick with it there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[Debbie]

Thanks kb.

[DarKWateR]

DW how are the antidepressants going? I started an additional one about the same time as you, I can definitely notice a difference for the better. I don't seem to be experiencing any of the more terrible side effects, so I'm happy with this one thus far. Glad that there's been no zombification, but it's still early so will wait and see.

Thank god* for these things.

*/pete/allah/supreme being/heavens etc

It seems to be doing fine....no side effects anymore...but I can't really feel the medication doing anything either....hmmm

[dotVIBE]

Hi DarkW,

Well, it's not like you're supposed to "feel" something. This stuff isn't "happy" drugs. What is supposed to happen is you should feel normal. The mornings should'nt terrify you, you must want some social interaction and not dwell on the past but look to the future. Basically you SHOULD be functioning normally.

Note that it normally takes 2 to 4 weeks for these meds to start working properly. If you have experienced no changes whatsoever since you started on the meds and still feel massively down, go see your psych asap!

[Meisteral]

To everyone - affected or better yet, previously affected:

It's been many years now without medication. (Cipramil and Aropax and 'LIFE') -condition: Hereditary (bipolar depression)

No matter what anyone says, there is always a reason as to why? Finding this 'why' and conquering it should be your foremost ambition. And once achieved - keep a stronghold of it as in my case, there are relapses, but are now combated naturally.

DW: don't ever leave you medication in the 1st year if at all possible. I'm no Dr. but I believe this was a big part of my recovery. I even managed to stop smoking (which I had done for 19yrs-what a waste)

To Everyone - never affected:
He who does not know the Facts, is simply a Fool... - Leave the drug recommendations to the professionals (by this I don't mean GPs)
Words of encouragement are always welcomed and are a blessing in disguise. Thanks for these.

[RompelStompel]

Leave the drug recommendations to the professionals (by this I don't mean GPs)

:confused:

Last time I looked a GP was a professional.

[Meisteral]

:confused:

Last time I looked a GP was a professional.

True, but these guys will prescribe you antibiotics for a sniffle! So you missing the point here.

Anybody can assume and make educated guesses, but do you get to the real bottom of the problem? No.

[Angstrom]

:confused:

Last time I looked a GP was a professional.

With due deference to GPs, in the medical realm they are the quintessential 'Jack of all trades, yet master of none'. This is precisely why specialisations take place.

Psychiatrists, while not perfect, have vastly more experience in dealing with mental disorders and associated drugs. It's this experience that is so important when it comes to prescribing the correct drugs and then tweaking the dosages appropriately.

I wasted years going to GPs while progressively declining as I did not want the stigma that tends to get attached to you after you've seen a mental healthcare professional. This was a very stupid mistake.

We're extremely fortunate in SA as we have some of the best psychiatrists available to us. I went to one psychiatrist in Australia, a professor emeritus, who tried desperately to impose his Freudian nightmare upon me. Other doctors were even worse.

Don't play games with mental issues. Go directly to the experts.

[savage]

It seems to be doing fine....no side effects anymore...but I can't really feel the medication doing anything either....hmmm

Which means your body has gotten used to them. This is perfectly normal, the thing now is to KEEP ON TAKING IT - even though it feels like it is not doing anything.

The moment you stop taking these meds, you will go back to exactly where you were - if not worse. So do not stop, unless you are TOLD to stop by the rich doctors that always knows what is best for you :D

Anti Depressants takes a very long time to work, you can be on these meds literally for years, and you could still not be 'cured'.

[RompelStompel]

True, but these guys will prescribe you antibiotics for a sniffle! So you missing the point here.

Anybody can assume and make educated guesses, but do you get to the real bottom of the problem? No.

Then you had a very bad GP - which is not always the case.

My GP is brilliant :)

Went to see a Psychiatrist once - never went back. Still on my meds , but have sorted things out for myself (almost :))

[Random717]

Can anyone recommend any pro's in the JHB area? pm or post here pls :D

[RompelStompel]

Can anyone recommend any pro's in the JHB area? pm or post here pls :D

Best bet is to speak to your GP.

[Random717]

If by GP you mean someone you've gone to for a while, who knows your history, then I don't have one. I've always popped into the student Healthcare place, down the road from where I stay, whenever I've needed to go to the doctor, and almost always got treated by a different person.
I'm considering picking random numbers from here http://www.sasop.co.za/D_patientdeu_FindAPsy.asp and phoning them, someday.

[Meisteral]

If by GP you mean someone you've gone to for a while, who knows your history, then I don't have one. I've always popped into the student Healthcare place, down the road from where I stay, whenever I've needed to go to the doctor, and almost always got treated by a different person.
I'm considering picking random numbers from here http://www.sasop.co.za/D_patientdeu_FindAPsy.asp and phoning them, someday.

You might want to investigate any support groups in your area.

But do yourself a huge favour: Do Not postpone the issue of seeking help. In an earlier post there was mention of this disease striking anyone anytime. With how much force is individual specific and the road to recovery could be longer than should be.
Take great care.

[Meisteral]

Then you had a very bad GP - which is not always the case.

My GP is brilliant :)

Went to see a Psychiatrist once - never went back. Still on my meds , but have sorted things out for myself (almost :))

Your GP might have been on top of his/her class. Normally as rare as a person with a 180IQ - Very glad you had this luck.:)

You obviously trusted your own instinct and are coming to terms with this stepping stone. Remember your greatest friend is you yourself, but you could also be your worst enemy - which way you lean to is destiny that can't be changed but can be controlled.;)

[DarKWateR]

Havn't read any posts yet so I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but coming off of prozac suddenly can be extremely dangerous - the gf of a friend of mine could not get her prozac perscription renewed in December 2004 (her GP was on holiday) and a few days into January 2005 the extreme low she reached within a few days of being off prozac caused her to shoot and kill herself. Beware prozac is dangerous stuff and must be managed and monitored very carefully and closely by an experienced GP.

I fully agree....but mine gave me deadly side-effect...I only used it for 2 weeks...so I figured...rather leave it before it's to late...what a good choice it was. I did not feel 1% better when I was on the meds, I actually felt worse...Prozac just aint for everybody

[The_Librarian]

This entire thread is making me feel a bit nauseous, to see that antidepressants are addictive, and that it does more harm than good.

Why then, do the medical community persists in treating people with antidepressants when most of the people in this thread says that they have more problems with it afterwards?

Makes one feels :sick:

My heart goes out for those who struggle with depression, and need to take medication to help them through.

Libs

[Alan]

That's what is so chilling. That people can get so bad that they feel they have no option but to take antidepressants:sick: . That's a big risk IMO but they feel they have no other alternative :(

Then you add irresponsible docs handing this stuff out like candy to any patient with a small problem just tops it all off :mad: :mad:

[Angstrom]

... antidepressants are addictive, ...

That's an interesting point to debate. It is claimed that contemporary antidepressants are indeed not addictive. However, as most patients will tell you, there is a period of a few weeks that doctors will use to wean you off of a specific drug.

I've been through this with various drugs and in my case it's been a relatively pain-free and simple process.

These drugs are not addictive in the sense that cocaine or heroine are addictive. There are minimal, if any, withdrawel symptoms. (Again, in my experience)


... and that it does more harm than good.
Why then, do the medical community persists in treating people with antidepressants when most of the people in this thread says that they have more problems with it afterwards?

Once again, a tricky issue. I loathe going back onto ADs, but I've had no real choice at least 4 times in my adult life. The side effects can be unbearable, but so is the disease. In many cases taking the drug is the lesser of the two evils.


Makes one feels :sick:

Welcome to our world. Nausea is one nasty side effect.


My heart goes out for those who struggle with depression, and need to take medication to help them through.

Libs

The world needs more empathetic people like you. One of the hardest issues that you have to deal with is other people who just don't understand. Nothing boils my blood more than the boilerplate "Just get over it, you've got nothing to be depressed about".

People fail to realise that depression has a multitude of triggers but is generally, at its core, a physiological disease. Sometimes I wish I had a broken leg with a cast on so that I could yell, "Look! there is something wrong with me!" ... it's not all in my head (although it may seem like it)

[Meisteral]

...Sometimes I wish I had a broken leg with a cast on so that I could yell, "Look! there is something wrong with me!"

Very well put.

I too would prefer a broken leg (and arm) over this 'disease' anyday.

There are few things you would not even wish on your worst enemy and this 'disease' is one of them.

[DarKWateR]

Very well put.

I too would prefer a broken leg (and arm) over this 'disease' anyday.

There are few things you would not even wish on your worst enemy and this 'disease' is one of them.

Agreed

[Debbie]

Anyone taking Cymbalta? I would really appreciate hearing from anyone who has.

[dotVIBE]

I do.

what would you like to know?

[Debbie]

30mg (weigh 48/49). Effexor was making me a hypersomniac and I was completely unable to concentrate. Prozac makes me itchy, and welbutrin impairs concentration and sort of makes me feel high. So now its Cymbalta, which doesn't look too different from Effexor to me.

Side effects for you dotvibe?

[dotVIBE]

Well, Cymbalta doesn't make me hypersomniac, and i'm on 90mg a day. Though I must add, I do take some wellbutrin at noon. It helps me wake me up in the afternoon.

[dotVIBE]

side effects, the usual.

The only one new to me is that I tend to get nauseous if I don't eat for more than 5 hours. As you can imagine, that rather sucks. Imagine having to eat to overcome nausea.

[dotVIBE]

Furthermore, somewhat decrease libido (though maybe i'm just getting old :)), slight physical tiredness /fatigue, dry mouth (that goes away after 6 months). And not cool in the summer. I feel like I sweated more (gross), and heat affected me badly. Furthermore, for the first time in my life I get sweet cravings. Something that I really cannot afford.

But be carefull. There has also been reports of decrease appetite, and at 48/49, it sounds like you'll have to watch that.

[Debbie]

Any negative or positive effects on your ability to concentrate? I was taking around 500mg sulpiride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulpiride) (Eglonyl) to help with the concentration, and it really worked, but dr made me cut that down to 50-100mg. I think a short-term prescription for something like Modafinil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil) would help, but dr seems to think the Cymbalta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duloxetine) will be good enough.

[dotVIBE]

Well, my concentration seems ok. I went through a seriously bad patch about 9 months ago, and it took me awhile to recover my all my faculties, concentration being one of them. Nowadays, I can focus for for quite a bit again. I don't know whether it's at max, but it's good enough to do some seriously intricate stuff for about 3 hours before I need to take a break.

Though maybe look into some omega 3 supplements. I know I should be taking them, but I honestly just can't be hanged to stuff even MORE pills into my body.

[Debbie]

side effects, the usual.

The only one new to me is that I tend to get nauseous if I don't eat for more than 5 hours. As you can imagine, that rather sucks. Imagine having to eat to overcome nausea.

I am not prone to nausea, thank goodness.


Furthermore, somewhat decrease libido (though maybe i'm just getting old :)), slight physical tiredness /fatigue, dry mouth (that goes away after 6 months). And not cool in the summer. I feel like I sweated more (gross), and heat affected me badly. Furthermore, for the first time in my life I get sweet cravings. Something that I really cannot afford.

But be carefull. There has also been reports of decrease appetite, and at 48/49, it sounds like you'll have to watch that.

The libido stuff sucks I know, I just accept it as part and parcel of anything anti-depressant (though Wellbutrin is apparantly prescribed not only as an additional anti-depressant, but also to slightly counteract the libido stuff - it worked for me in this regard :p).

"slight physical tiredness /fatigue" - my major complaint with Effexor, which was causing excessive tiredness/fatigue. Dr says it shouldn't be so bad with Cymbalta...

"dry mouth (that goes away after 6 months)" - another "part and parcel" from my perspective. Sucks but tolerable.

"sweated more (gross)" - I barely sweat at all (think it's a result of 3 months Roaccutane a few years ago), so if it makes me sweat more than I'd probably just be sweating like a normal person then.

"sweet cravings" - I've heard of this with Effexor, but personally I wasn't on it long enough to have this. I'll look out for it.

"There has also been reports of decrease appetite" - Thanks for concern in noting this dotvibe. Thanks for all your comments, I appreciate the support.

[frenchi6625]

what are you all so depressed about?

[dotVIBE]

@ Debbie2

sure thing lady. Thanks for reviving the thread. Recalling this stuff always leads to some introspection. A good thing for me. ;)

[dotVIBE]

what are you all so depressed about?

life the universe and everything :D

Nah dude, it's a medical condition. And i'm feeling fine, so I'm not depressed. Unfortunately I have this disease called depression, but luckily you can medicate it.

[Debbie]

Well, my concentration seems ok. I went through a seriously bad patch about 9 months ago, and it took me awhile to recover my all my faculties, concentration being one of them. Nowadays, I can focus for for quite a bit again. I don't know whether it's at max, but it's good enough to do some seriously intricate stuff for about 3 hours before I need to take a break.

Though maybe look into some omega 3 supplements. I know I should be taking them, but I honestly just can't be hanged to stuff even MORE pills into my body.

Ever heard of a prescription multi-vitamin? Me neither.... til today:
Gericomplex, schedule 5 (god knows why, it's just stuffed with a bunch of vitamins, minerals, 20 mg of this (http://www.vrp.com/det/1302.asp?c=1165914445875&k=/art/593.asp&m=/&p=no&s=0) 'smart drug', and something called Panax Ginseng Root 40mg).

Omega 3 & 6 - what's this for? Anything to do with nervous system (I'm associating it with nerve myelin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myelin) sheaths - seems to be something in it according to wikipedia).

[Meisteral]

Though maybe look into some omega 3 supplements. I know I should be taking them, but I honestly just can't be hanged to stuff even MORE pills into my body.

I am off all prescription drugs (thank goodness) - we regards to Omega 3 - it is a natural supplement, but as our bodies cannot generate it and in my case, require more than the next average person, I take Revite's Flax Seed Oil (omega 3, 6 & 9) every 2nd or so day.

Omega 3 comes from fish and is known to aid positively with depression (& heart complications-not in my case but maybe might help someone else) - if you are interested, you can read the following article (http://www.mcmanweb.com/article-15.htm)

[dotVIBE]

Omega 3 fatty acids are supposed to help with concentration and short term memory. Some people swear by it, and it's one of the few things that supposedly doesn't interfere with anti depro meds. Best to still check with the psych though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid

See "Psychological disorders" section.

[Xpilz]

Hey DarKWateR,

Hope things went well with you! I sent you a pm.

:)

[Xpilz]

what are you all so depressed about?

ignorance about being 'depression' peeves me hugely...

It's more than a bad day, it's far more than not getting your way.

It's about the chemical wiring in your head

people abuse the word depression, depressed.

[dotVIBE]

Yeah. imo the medical condition should be called something else. just calling it depression seems to be misleading to some people who know nothing about it.

[Xpilz]

Anyone been on topamax? or tried it out?

I have been up to 100mg, but back down to 75mg, as 100mg put the brakes on hugely, get this insane retard feeling to stare blankly at a wall, intense dof feeling. I went back to my doc, well another doc actually (go to the best state hospital) and she slowed the change over down.

My doctor told me it has less side effects than the lithium I'm on currently which affects the liver and thryoid, only to discover that topamax is not FDA approved, and has this long list of side effects most which disappear after a week or two or so they say.

The most prevalent side effects I'm feeling are pins and needles in my feet, my nose continues to bleed, and my eyes are always blood shot.

I'm going back to the doc on the 3rd April, reckon I need to change it again, any insights anyone?

I've come along way, but it never gets old, however I know I'm strong, and things can always be better, so I never stop striving or questioning.

topamax is commonly called dopamax by those who have to take it, and I can understand why!

:)

[dotVIBE]

Sounds like you need a change in meds. The side effects you list are serious and not ones usually associated with anti depro meds.

Ask the doctor to change them. Try something else.

Good luck :)

[Meisteral]

Xpilz: Just on question - did you get these at a Government Hospital? I believe there have been cases of Myopia - my gut feeling - you have all ready changed to something else then?!

[Angstrom]

Hang on a sec ... a quick search for Topamax on the web yields the fact that it's an anticonvulsant, not an antidepressant.

Were you prescribed these meds to treat depression, or some other seizure condition?

[Xpilz]

What ever happened to this thread.

Thankfully I came to my senses and gave up on the topamax, and yes it is indeed an anti-convulsant, but like many other medications they are used widely for a range of 'ailments'

Apparently there are those who do fine on topamax as stabaliser.

I'm still on lithium and looking for an alternative. Also any recommendations to a really good pschyatrist?

[Pitbull]

More to the point.

What happened to DarkWater ? :eek:

edit: nvm, see he was here yesterday :o

[superB]

What ever happened to this thread.

Thankfully I came to my senses and gave up on the topamax, and yes it is indeed an anti-convulsant, but like many other medications they are used widely for a range of 'ailments'

Apparently there are those who do fine on topamax as stabaliser.

I'm still on lithium and looking for an alternative. Also any recommendations to a really good pschyatrist?

Lamictin is often used as an alternative to Lithium. It is an anti-convulsant too but is very effective for some. What area are you in? There is a very good psychiatrist in Rosebank that you could talk to about the diff med types and treatment plans.

PM me if you want details.

[Sweetlicks]

My dd is seeing a shrink @ the moment and she referred my one to a psych who prescribed anti depressants but I flatly refuse to get them; as I agree, they bugger up more than they solve.

[bodhi]

Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl.

Read it - it might help.

[Hosehead]

Don't anti-depressants mess you up more in the end? Has anyone benefitted significantly?

Why not just take a walk in nature instead? :)

When someone is severely clinically depressed (like cannot get motivated depressed, cannot get out of bed depressed) the antidepressants will usually get someone out of the rut; like a chemical boot to the backside; thus enabling the depressed person to get out and walk in nature

[PhreakBoy]

RAS