View Full Version : Near death experiences
Macguyver1
25-02-2007, 11:41 PM
I just watched a show on near death experiences and I am at a loss to explain how a person who has no brain activity can have feelings of peace and love, and can recall events that were going on in the operating room. Like what the nurses and doctors were saying.
Surely no brain activity means that there is no thought going on, the mind and the brain are connected therefore any type of cognitive process should be impossible.
Someone explained to me that it is a natural effect that the body goes through before dying, but surely feelings of love and peace are not natural when close to death? are we not programmed through evolution to fight to stay alive?
ghoti
26-02-2007, 12:04 AM
Morphine is a wonderful drug, so are many other anaesthetics. They make you feel all warm and cuddly inside :)
I had a near death experience when I was in the army thanks to a grenade.
I saw this angel next to my bed. So I wanted to see if it was real and punched it in the face.
When I came to my senses a few days later my doctor had a broken jaw.
And no, it happened. If you want to I can give you the doctor's name and you can phone him and ask him about the guy that broke his jaw while he was all morphined up :)
Beancounter
26-02-2007, 07:35 AM
Those people that have such experiences could be in a coma, under severe stress, under anaesthetic (sp?) etc. The brain can play funny tricks under unusual (and usual) circumstances so it is not impossible that the "near death" experiences actually take place before there is "no brain function" and that, in retrospect it seems as though the experiences occured just as the person was "dying".
Not a scientific theory, my two cents worth.
Macguyver1
26-02-2007, 05:27 PM
Those people that have such experiences could be in a coma, under severe stress, under anaesthetic (sp?) etc. The brain can play funny tricks under unusual (and usual) circumstances so it is not impossible that the "near death" experiences actually take place before there is "no brain function" and that, in retrospect it seems as though the experiences occured just as the person was "dying".
Not a scientific theory, my two cents worth.
In the one documented case, the woman had a brain tumor at the bottom of her brain, the only way to remove it was to bring her core temperature down 15deg, and stop her heart, which means 8 seconds later there is no brain activity, so they were monitoring her brain, which had no activity going on when she had the near death experience. and could recall things the nurses said.
Macguyver1
26-02-2007, 05:29 PM
I had a near death experience when I was in the army thanks to a grenade.
I saw this angel next to my bed. So I wanted to see if it was real and punched it in the face.
When I came to my senses a few days later my doctor had a broken jaw.
And no, it happened. If you want to I can give you the doctor's name and you can phone him and ask him about the guy that broke his jaw while he was all morphined up :)
Near death experience = dead, there is no way to swing a punch when you are dead, therefore I doubt you were.
nthdimension
26-02-2007, 05:45 PM
Obviously then brain death had not occurred. Once your brain is dead you cannot be revived. The brain can survive for a relatively limited amount of time without oxygen without sustaining damage. I believe this is four minutes. This time can be increased by lowering the temperature.
People who die due to lack of oxygen will generally be found to have high levels of Gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid in their body because the body releases this chemical to slow the metabolism, reducing the need for oxygen, in an attempt to protect itself.
Pr⊕phet
26-02-2007, 06:01 PM
what you all talking about.
just rent a good priest and get it to ressurect you ;)
Beancounter
26-02-2007, 08:57 PM
Near death experience = dead, there is no way to swing a punch when you are dead, therefore I doubt you were.
Near death experience = nearly dead.
Macguyver1
26-02-2007, 09:23 PM
Near death experience = nearly dead.
Please go look this up, you are clinically brain dead when a near death experience occurs, I assure you. Otherwise I wouldn't be making this argument.
http://www.near-death.com/
Macguyver1
26-02-2007, 10:13 PM
Here we go
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1095220859246890757&q=Near+Death+Experience
Tonyh
21-03-2007, 04:28 PM
Some of the NDEs mentioned here sound like delirium, in other words a hallucinatory state caused by infection and so on. Wikipedia has the best stuff on NDE. More academic, with referencing, including the BBC programme. It also has stuff on delirium. Ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1095220859246890757&q=Near+Death+Experience
The article, below, raises critical questions about NDE from a medical/ physiological perspective.http://skepdic.com/nde.html
noxibox
21-03-2007, 04:51 PM
you are clinically brain dead when a near death experience occurs, I assure you. Otherwise I wouldn't be making this argument.
You can't be because that by definition means you cannot be revived. Your brain is permanently damaged and dead. The only time anyone returns from being declared clinically dead is when the doctors have mistakenly declared you dead.
mancombseepgood
21-03-2007, 04:57 PM
You can't be because that by definition means you cannot be revived. Your brain is permanently damaged and dead. The only time anyone returns from being declared clinically dead is when the doctors have mistakenly declared you dead.
Lol - so says noxibox. Just because you can't prove the supernatural scientifically doesn't mean it doesn't exist... that's just ignorance speaking.
Here's a podcast of someone's experience... http://server.firefighters.org/catalog/2002/14059.mp3
They had pronounced him clinically dead 15 minutes before he came back.
noxibox
21-03-2007, 05:03 PM
They had pronounced him clinically dead 15 minutes before he came back.
As you say, he was not really dead.
noxibox
21-03-2007, 05:13 PM
A problem with claims of near death experiences is that we do not know when the experiences occur. Just like dreaming perception of time is distorted. The difference between the believers and the skeptics is that the skeptics want evidence. So far it is scant to non-existent. At the very least we're going to need a way to accurately measure brain activity. We need to show that there is absolutely no activity of any kind in the brain. We're not there yet.
mancombseepgood
21-03-2007, 06:06 PM
Yep - and will we ever be there... i.e. is it actually possible to use the tools of the natural world to prove the supernatural...?
mancombseepgood
21-03-2007, 06:07 PM
As you say, he was not really dead.
I said?
Not sure that I did. Actually most people would understand that I am not in a position to comment on those facts. I'm willing to bet you aren't either :)
However, I would certainly think a medical doctor would have greater knowlege in these things.
Think about it... to say that something cannot happen should never be based on likelyhood of it happening...
And certainly although it may be logically impossible in our understanding... but then there is a whole bigger picture that we cannot understand with the tools we have!
nthdimension
21-03-2007, 06:24 PM
At the very least we're going to need a way to accurately measure brain activity.
I've never read of any instances where the person claiming an NDE was verifiably dead.
mancombseepgood
25-03-2007, 08:05 PM
I've never read of any instances where the person claiming an NDE was verifiably dead.
Did you check the podcast I sent?
Mr TB
26-03-2007, 07:12 PM
The difference between the believers and the skeptics is that the skeptics want evidence
IN RESPONSE TO NOXIBOX:
"The difference between the believers and the skeptics is that the skeptics want evidence."
Please provide prove that NDE is a lie.
Because you are a "skeptic" you can dispute a person's word and it is on that person shoulders to prove he/she is not lying...
Once the skeptic is proved wrong any further disputes raised by such person should be treated with a pinch of salt... Skeptics lifes are easy ones...
Mr TB
26-03-2007, 07:23 PM
IN RESPONSE TO NOXIBOX:
"A problem with claims of near death experiences is that we do not know when the experiences occur."
I don't think this statement of yours is true in all instances, it is misleading, the person is watching in the spirit what is happening to him/her in the flesh.
Those standing around the body should be able to pin point it basically down to the exact second based on the detail given by the person outside his body...
Yeah, really misleading this comment of yours...