Why do christians where a cross ?

[Pr⊕phet]

one thing i always wondered about (apart from the whole salvation thing)

why - when it represents:



torture
death
murder
fear



surly you don't see people that wear little electric chairs, the rope, lethal injection, swords or firing squad guns around their necks...

...just wondering

[MURH]

while on the topic something i read sometime ago from an old Christian book. do you know that wearing a tie represents Christ being crucified... interesting. anyone else can confirm this?

[PostmanPot]

To remind the Christians that they are all born sinners, maybe?

[Pr⊕phet]

found a source on the Tie and Cross story...



QUESTION: What do the theologians say about fastening the Tie? What was the Judicial Verdict of A'la Hadrat and Hadrat Mufti-e-Azam (radi Allahu anhuma) on this issue? Please clarify.

Mohammed Shahabuddin Razvi

Bareilly Shareef

India ANSWER:

Hadrat Mufti-e-Azam-e-Hind (radi Allahu anhu) used to say, "Tie is a refutation of the Quran."

The Holy Quran states that the Jews did not kill Hadrat 'Isa (alaihis salaam) and that they did not crucify him, but that Allah made for them one like him. Certainly, they never killed him. Therefore, Christians make the sign of the Cross in remembrance of his (Hadrat 'Isa alaihis salaam's) "crucifixion" and keep the knot (i.e. the Tie around the necks). The persons sitting in the presence of Hadrat Mufti-e-Azam-e-Hind (radi Allahu anhu) always observed him expressing annoyance when he saw anybody wearing a Tie around his neck. Hadrat Mufti-e-Azam Hind (radi Allahu anhu) used to make that person take off his Tie. Further, he used to call it the signs of the Christians. The verdict of Hadrat Mufti-e-Azam Hind (radi Allahu anhu) is re-enforced with some reasons:

(1) I would like, relying on the Help of Allah, to lay the basis of this issue on the universally admitted point, that is, that the Cross is unanimously considered by all Muslims and non-Muslims as the sign of the Christians. The Cross is applicable to the structure on which, according to Christian belief, Hadrat 'Isa (alaihis salaam) was crucified, as well as to the well-known sign (i.e. the Cross). Accordingly, it is stated in the famous English Dictionary, "Practical Advanced Twentieth Century Dictionary", under the word "CROSS", as below:

"Stake with a traverse bar used for crucifixion; the Cross, wooden structure on which, according to the Christian religion's belief, Jesus was crucified; Anything shaped like or ; the sign of the Cross."

(2) This sign, according to Christian belief, is considered to be the reason of protection from misfortune and is also regarded as a means of prosperity. Accordingly, the same Dictionary, quoted above, says under the "CROSS" as follows:

"Cross (oneself); make the sign of the Cross with the hand as a religious act among Christians."

(3) If you see a Tie in the light of the above mentioned facts, it will be clearly evident that the Tie resembles the structure of crucifixion, especially the straight and wide strip which is more similar to the Cross plank. This part is also sacred and respectable in the beliefs of Christians as well as the full Cross. It is also clear by the above-mentioned facts that they (the Christians) consider making the sign of the Cross even with their hands in the air as a means of prosperity. Hence, why would they not consider to keep the sign of the full Cross or part of the Cross as a reason of grace! Certainly, according to their tenet, this is a reason of compassion; this is the Tie, which Christians use to tie around their necks.

(4) If you attentively notice a Tie fastened around the neck of a man, it will come to light that the Tie lying on the chest between the two shoulders is representing the entire Cross. But, by a little deliberation, it is also clear that the whole Cross is existent on the Tie.

This is because when the knot is made after having put the strip around the neck, two strips cross each other at the same time (point) on that knot and these two strips lie on the collar-bone making this form. It shows the Cross structure and the stranglehold apparently. Now, if you put a pin to it, then another Cross is formed. This is clear by the given form. So the Tie represents the Cross by some means and brings the remembrance of the crucifixion to the Christians. In short, the Tie is
quite a Cross including the knot, which is the redundant thing.

In the same manner, you compare the bow-tie with a neck-tie. The form of the Cross is existing, meanwhile, the bow-tie is tied around the neck as it appears by the given form.

The Cross, as well as anything like the Cross, is the religious symbol of the Christians. Now, either you admit that the tie is a Cross or you accept that it is similar to the Cross. On both the conditions: that it is a religious sign of the Christians, and whichever thing that is considered to be a sign of non-Muslims would not be legitimate on any account even if, Allah forbid, that it becomes common in any manner.

(5) The status of the Tie has been found out to the prudent by means of observation of it's shape. But the Tie has got so much importance amongst Christians that they put the Tie on the dead body also. So, indeed, it is their customary manner, which makes Muslims deserve disgrace and Hell. Muslims cannot have the legitimacy to use it. Muslims must strictly abstain from it and must also not wear shirts and pants, etc. Muslims have to revive their culture, which is present in the Sunnat, i.e. the practice of the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) and the behaviour of religious preceptors. They must not put on the Tie in the name of job, etc. Muslims must rely on Allah and repose confidence in the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam). They must resist the unlawful conditions of others vigorously. Of course, Muslims will ultimately meet with success as Allah promises to help you if you assist His religion. So, Muslims must not accept on any account a job or post when he is forced to use a Tie or to accept such illegitimate conditions because the hypocrisy and dullness in religious affairs is a violent detriment to the religion and it causes the Anger of Allah. As it is said in the Holy Quran: If Allah is Angry, Allah forbid, nobody can assist you in the whole universe and if Allah leaves you, then there is no helper for you.

(6) The Tie itself is just a testimony, which signifies the religion of Christianity. So there is no need for any other evidence. Even then, all Muslims and non-Muslims agree to the fact that the Tie is a symbol of Christianity as it appeared many times during enquiry from people. It happened just last year that a convert (Muslim) told me that the Tie was considered as a dress of respect to the Church. In this way, it's religious standing comes to light. Also as a clergyman told a Pakistani theologian, "The reward is increased by fastening the Tie according to their belief", as Mufti Naseem Ashraf, a resident of Durban, South Africa, told me.


http://www.yanabi.com/blog/index.cfm?month=4&year=2006

[MURH]

thanks Ryuji

any other evidence from a christian pov that the tie is a symbol of the cross? the above post does confirm this thou... but something from a christian pov.

[bwana]

thanks Ryuji

any other evidence from a christian pov that the tie is a symbol of the cross? the above post does confirm this thou... but something from a christian pov.The tie is the descendant of the cravat which was used to keep the shirt clean.

[Mr TB]

The tie is the descendant of the cravat which was used to keep the shirt clean.

I do not promote the wearing of a cross, but you have only viewed the negative side of the cross.

THE CROSS... represents salvation
THE CROSS... represents eternal life
THE CROSS... represents grace

and I can go on and on and on and on and.....

[Mr TB]

one thing i always wondered about (apart from the whole salvation thing)

why - when it represents:



torture
death
murder
fear



surly you don't see people that wear little electric chairs, the rope, lethal injection, swords or firing squad guns around their necks...

...just wondering

It actually represent exactly what you turned it down for... that is the reason most christians will wear it for, for salvation, none other than that...

[fivelza]

To remind the Christians that they are all born sinners, maybe?

Don't need anything to remind me of that thanks PostmanPot.

I wear a cross around my neck more as a reminder of what Christ went through for me on the cross.

[Mr TB]

when it represents:


torture
death
murder
fear

If a cross indeed represent the above why are non-religious folk wearing it?

[bwana]

The tie is the descendant of the cravat which was used to keep the shirt clean.
I do not promote the wearing of a cross, but you have only viewed the negative side of the cross.

THE CROSS... represents salvation
THE CROSS... represents eternal life
THE CROSS... represents grace

and I can go on and on and on and on and.....Huh? I'd like to point out I clearly said 'tie' - aka necktie - so I fail to see how you parlayed that into my being negative about the wearing of a cross. :rolleyes:

tie ≠ crucifix

[fivelza]

If a cross indeed represent the above why are non-religious folk wearing it?

Simply as an item of jewellery?

[BCO]

Reminds me of that Bill Hicks sketch about JFK. He said wearing a cross is like wearing a little sniper rifle pendant on a necklace and going up to Jackie Kennedy: "Just thinking about JFK, Jackie. Back and to the left, back and to the left.

[Tux]

The tie is nothing but a fashion accessory invented by a gay pom that had a machochistic streak a mile wide :)

[Mr TB]

Huh? I'd like to point out I clearly said 'tie' - aka necktie - so I fail to see how you parlayed that into my being negative about the wearing of a cross. :rolleyes:

tie ≠ crucifix
Sorry Bwana did not dispute a tie , my apologies... only gave a more positive attitude towards the cross...

[MURH]

I wear a cross around my neck more as a reminder of what Christ went through for me on the cross.


so if the tie does represent the cross then wearing the tie represents Christ being crucified?

[fivelza]

I struggle to see how a tie can be anything more than a piece of clothing to compliment a shirt.....

[Mr TB]

I listened to a tape by a satanist, reasonably high up in the hierarchy. His name was Dave Griesel.
On the inside of crosses the words "may this soul be bound by satan" will be imprinted then cursed and then put in the market for sale...
Sounds like a tall story to me... or what do you think...? That was in the 80's

[MURH]

I struggle to see how a tie can be anything more than a piece of clothing to compliment a shirt.....

i need to get my hands on a Christian book( which was compiled in the 1800's) i read some time ago where it said that wearing the tie was a symbol of Christ being crucified. it had all the pics of the ties and how it resembled the cross.

anyway thanks for the input guys.

[nthdimension]

The tie is the descendant of the cravat which was used to keep the shirt clean.
Isn't it also to hide the buttons and seams?

[fivelza]

i need to get my hands on a Christian book( which was compiled in the 1800's) i read some time ago where it said that wearing the tie was a symbol of Christ being crucified. it had all the pics of the ties and how it resembled the cross.

anyway thanks for the input guys.

Ok, I have no hassles with it meaning something like that, but it means zip to me, except that I have to wear it to work each day ;) The cross around my neck means plenty :D

[Nanfeishen]

The tie is the descendant of the cravat which was used to keep the shirt clean.

"The necktie (or tie) is a long piece of either woven or knitted cloth worn around the neck, under the shirt collar, and knotted at the throat, with its blades resting on the shirt front, covering the buttons. The modern necktie, ascot, and bow tie, descend from the cravat; mainly, men wear neckties as regular office attire, formal wear, or uniform, yet women also wear neckties as part of a uniform (e.g. military, school)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necktie

[bwana]

"The necktie (or tie) is a long piece of either woven or knitted cloth worn around the neck, under the shirt collar, and knotted at the throat, with its blades resting on the shirt front, covering the buttons. The modern necktie, ascot, and bow tie, descend from the cravat; mainly, men wear neckties as regular office attire, formal wear, or uniform, yet women also wear neckties as part of a uniform (e.g. military, school)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NecktieSee - I was spot on :)
The cravat neckband is the forerunner of the modern, tailored necktie. From the end of the 16th century, the term "band" applied to any long-strip neckcloth that was not a "ruff"; the ruff — a starched, pleated white linen strip — started its fashion career earlier in the 16th century as a neckcloth (readily changeable, to minimize the soiling of a doublet), or as a bib, or as a napkin. A "band" could indicate either a plain, attached shirt collar or a detachable "falling band" that draped over the doublet collar.

[Tux]

i need to get my hands on a Christian book( which was compiled in the 1800's) i read some time ago where it said that wearing the tie was a symbol of Christ being crucified. it had all the pics of the ties and how it resembled the cross.

anyway thanks for the input guys.

I can see how a bow tie might vaguely resemble a cross, but the average normal tie resembles a hangman's noose to me :)

[Claymore]

I can see how a bow tie might vaguely resemble a cross, but the average normal tie resembles a hangman's noose to me :)

And feels like one too...

[Pr⊕phet]

isn't the tie like belt:

'it keeps the pants up'

...i gues in the end the symbol that you wear is what you make of it but you MUST also know all of its meanings or interpretations that other people have towards it

[fivelza]

isn't the tie like belt:

'it keeps the pants up'

...i gues in the end the symbol that you wear is what you make of it but you MUST also know all of its meanings or interpretations that other people have towards it

You cannot know what anyone else will make of something :confused:

[nthdimension]

isn't the tie like belt:

'it keeps the pants up'
My belt is for decoration. My pants stay up on their own. I never wear my pants all the way up to my neck so I don't need a tie.

[Pr⊕phet]

My belt is for decoration. My pants stay up on their own. I never wear my pants all the way up to my neck so I don't need a tie.

hehe...

what i ment was
‘A belt is only to hold your pants up.’

and then a tie begin something similar.

...lol

[Mr TB]

hehe...

what i ment was
‘A belt is only to hold your pants up.’

and then a tie begin something similar.

...lol
I wear "kruisbande" then I don't need belt. A belt hurts my tummy also...

[FlyingPika]

one thing i always wondered about (apart from the whole salvation thing)

why - when it represents:



torture
death
murder
fear



surly you don't see people that wear little electric chairs, the rope, lethal injection, swords or firing squad guns around their necks...

...just wondering


I know Catholics do. Its not popular amoungst Christians.

The cross represents all that God has done for us. It represents dying to onself, his grace, victory, and Gods love.

Where did you get “Fear” from?

[Pr⊕phet]

because FlyingPika as Crucifixion was used as a form of capital punishment it surely did had some people thinking twice before committing a serious crime - hence the fear of it all...

and as i stated with the very first post apart from the whole 'saving us' or salvation aspect of it there is the other parts of which the cross specificially represent as well.

which in short has everything to do with a capital punishment device.
it seems that its very nice to forget about those realities and just keep the nice parts from which the cross came from.

whether you like it or not it was used as a tool to kill, to torture, fear of the punishment for serious crimes, maime, murder and punish people.

we don't see people running around as i stated with electric chairs around their necks do we ?

next time when you hang that little accessory around your neck remember that people were killed on it and i am sure sometimes even innocent ones too.

[Pr⊕phet]

i wonder sometimes if people actually really stop and think what they are celebrating on their religious holidays/holidays and what the celebration is about... (apart from the symbols they just throw around and on them)

...the Crucifixion, a man's suffering and death - apart from salvation part, and the whole 'forgotten' or cherry picking the whole event and all the other people that also died and suffered that why. Chr1st wasn't the only person that one time that was killed that way (if it happened or not) and also an innocent under capital punishment - whether his choice or not.

most of these holy days/celebrations (and maybe all of them) can't be proven to be exactly happened on the celebrated day and was chosen by people on power as they saw correct where they must fit in on which day and how - even if sometimes proper investigation show that there are some differences in the means. There is always the fact or possibility that it was taken from something else or a made from a mixture of things...

...one could throw in the question that which now is the broad road that the sheep are so carelessly following - is it the Christian way it self or is the the path of self questioning and exploring in which you really seek out the answers in life and take responsibility for yourself and not just dump it on some divinity or force and where there also isn't a Holy FAQ, a pack of people that goes with you (as described - the path is broad and there is many times time people on that one) and those 'talk to god for you' people who shepherd you.

[Pr⊕phet]

2 day early /ress

[Balstrome]

Don't need anything to remind me of that thanks PostmanPot.

I wear a cross around my neck more as a reminder of what Christ went through for me on the cross.

Can I ask if you asked him to do that for you, and would you ask him to do it for you? Do you understand what the torture of the crucifixion is like?

[Balstrome]

I listened to a tape by a satanist, reasonably high up in the hierarchy. His name was Dave Griesel.
On the inside of crosses the words "may this soul be bound by satan" will be imprinted then cursed and then put in the market for sale...
Sounds like a tall story to me... or what do you think...? That was in the 80's

Well, that would work, if curses actually worked, seems they are as effective as prayer. So not to worry. But being totally nasty about it, that sounds like a story to generate support for Christianity by Christians, and hate for non Christians. About par for the course I think.

[Korn1]

I wear a rosary..mostly for comfort hey. Makes me feel safer..Yeah I know to an atheist that would sound retarded :p

[porchrat]

I wear a rosary..mostly for comfort hey. Makes me feel safer..Yeah I know to an atheist that would sound retarded :p

you wear a whole rosary? not just a crucifix?

[Voicy]

I find the whole wearing-a-cross thing somewhat hipocritical, considering how many people wear it to show that they're christian, yet their actions do not match their proclaimed faith.

Don't tell me you're a christian, SHOW me you're a christian.

That's just my 5c worth.

[Korn1]

Thats very true Voicy...good post :)

You always get these people showing it off lol...mines tucked away behind my shirt :D Its my faith so why must you show it off to the world? If that makes sense...I think that as a Catholic I shouldn't wear the rosary? Anyone can clarify this for me? Regardless...ill still wear it...makes me feel safer at hard times :)

[porchrat]

Thats very true Voicy...good post :)

You always get these people showing it off lol...mines tucked away behind my shirt :D Its my faith so why must you show it off to the world? If that makes sense...I think that as a Catholic I shouldn't wear the rosary? Anyone can clarify this for me? Regardless...ill still wear it...makes me feel safer at hard times :)

As a Catholic I believe you are permitted to wear one around your neck. However you should wear it in reverence and not as a piece of jewellery. Why do you wear a rosary though do you feel the need to spontaneously perform a penance?

[Korn1]

As a Catholic I believe you are permitted to wear one around your neck. However you should wear it in reverence and not as a piece of jewellery. Why do you wear a rosary though do you feel the need to spontaneously perform a penance?

hahahha well I suffer from anxiety quite a bit...I get worried about my family when im out...also family conflicts etc. I also pray with it when im sleeping out of my house. Like I said...it just makes me feel safer :)

[porchrat]

hahahha well I suffer from anxiety quite a bit...I get worried about my family when im out...also family conflicts etc. I also pray with it when im sleeping out of my house. Like I said...it just makes me feel safer :)

Well if you are going to use it to pray with then I doubt your Catholic clergy would have a problem with it. They used to reprimand those who wore them as a fashion statement when I used to be a part of the church. I can understand that I suppose I mean they are first and foremost for prayer.

[Korn1]

Well if you are going to use it to pray with then I doubt your Catholic clergy would have a problem with it. They used to reprimand those who wore them as a fashion statement when I used to be a part of the church. I can understand that I suppose I mean they are first and foremost for prayer.

Sweet. I haven't been to church for long now...maybe I should start going again :D

[Peder]

IMHO

I think it stems from a verse in the bible keeping the cross near to you and not forgetting it, so in a way it might be a reminder of what Jesus did for Me. So in all honesty i will wear a cross to remind me of Jesus not remind everyone around me how hypocritical i am.

My 0.02c worth

[Pr⊕phet]

Korn/peder

Well, when i wear something it would be an anhk, pentacle or star of david.

The proper qeustion to the OP should be that if you wear something did you actually consider its altenative interpretations over your point of view, though in the end you give meaning to it.