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ghoti
13-04-2007, 10:04 AM
By Alan Boyle
Science editor
MSNBC
Updated: 3:22 p.m. ET April 12, 2007


Alan Boyle
Science editor
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For the first time, researchers have read what they say is the biological signature of a tyrannosaur — a signature that confirms the increasingly accepted view that modern birds are the descendants of dinosaurs.

The signature doesn't come from studying the shape of the 68 million-year-old dinosaur's fossilized bones, but from analyzing the organic material found inside those bones. It's not DNA — despite what you've seen in movies like "Jurassic Park," that genetic material couldn't be recovered. But researchers say it's the next-best thing: collagen proteins that were isolated using techniques on the very edge of what's possible today.

Those techniques, detailed in Friday's issue of the journal Science, could open up "a new window into an entirely new approach" for paleontology, one expert told MSNBC.com. What's more, researchers say the methods are already being incorporated into improved tools for detecting present-day diseases.


“We don’t know what the possibilities are,” said Mary Schweitzer, a paleontologist at North Carolina State University and the North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences who was one of the principal authors behind the studies. “We’re starting right now with a particular goal in mind, but the spin-offs … how this might apply to human health and our understanding of disease … all of that is yet to be seen.”

Schweitzer and her colleagues emphasized that the protein analysis was just the first step in what could become a worldwide effort to categorize extinct species according to their molecular makeup. Famed paleontologist Jack Horner, another member of the research team, said he would embark on a world-girdling series of expeditions this summer to see if further samples could be found.

“All of our morphological hypotheses based on fossils need to be tested. Every one of them,” said Horner, a paleontologist at Montana State University and the Museum of the Rockies.

Tale of a T. rex
The tale of the T. rex began with Horner, back in 2003: He and his team found the tyrannosaur's massive leg bone beneath 1,000 cubic yards of rock at the Hell Creek fossil site in Montana, but had trouble fitting the bone inside their helicopter for the airlift back to the lab.

When they broke the bone into pieces for transport, they were amazed to find that some of the dinosaur's soft tissues appeared to be preserved within. Previously, paleontologists had thought all the tissues of a fossil turned to minerals over the course of millions of years.

After analyzing the tissues under a microscope, Schweitzer reported in 2005 that they looked similar to the cells and blood vessels found in ostrich bones. But at that time, "we could not directly address what that material was made of," she said during a teleconference with journalists this week.

Schweitzer suspected that some of the material was preserved collagen protein — which is the main organic constituent of bone, left behind when the minerals are removed. She said the material looked like collagen, and it reacted like collagen when chicken antibodies were applied to a sample.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18075420/from/RS.5/

Interesting link.

DragonLogos
14-04-2007, 02:13 AM
And I thought they were a group from the 70s

texo
14-04-2007, 09:02 AM
It's interesting that our resident creationists and IDiots have steered clear of this thread.

ghoti
14-04-2007, 09:07 AM
They would, theyre mostly hypocrites and bigots.

Neo
14-04-2007, 10:54 AM
It's interesting that our resident creationists and IDiots have steered clear of this thread.

Don't tempt them....We might have a thread that actually stay on-topic for more than one page.

But you can be sure the prom queen is furiously googling to try and find links to refute this, while fish fingers and the dead bird will just spew something incomprehensible.

ghoti
14-04-2007, 11:00 AM
I never knew there was soft tissue left over. This is going to shed a lot of light to our current evolution.

The_Librarian
14-04-2007, 03:15 PM
This is very interesting reading...

...and I won't derail it. :D


However, this raises the interesting questions (and will change a lot of our perceptions) as to what dinos looked like really... Jurassic Park will need to be redone :D

Before this dinos was thought to be akin to lizards, but now these people says they're akin to birds...

Maybe Mr Ostrich is really a dino in disguise? :D


edit : isn't the crocodile related to dinosaurs?

ghoti
14-04-2007, 03:18 PM
This is very interesting reading...

...and I won't derail it. :D


However, this raises the interesting questions (and will change a lot of our perceptions) as to what dinos looked like really... Jurassic Park will need to be redone :D

Before this dinos was thought to be akin to lizards, but now these people says they're akin to birds...

Maybe Mr Ostrich is really a dino in disguise? :D


edit : isn't the crocodile related to dinosaurs?

Nope, that conception is a little off.

If you watched Jurassic Park you will remember the velociraptor. They also state in the movie that it has bird like bone structure ( I think they use the word ostrich). You may also want to remember what a pterodactyl is... an early bird.

The_Librarian
14-04-2007, 03:26 PM
@ wiz -- thanks.

Will be interesting to see what comes of this discovery. It really puts things in a different perspective.

Gotta find my Jurassic Park novel and re-read it... :D

ghoti
14-04-2007, 03:31 PM
Velociraptor, like other dromaeosaurids, had three strongly-curved claws on each forelimb and large 'hands', which were similar in construction and flexibility to the wing bones of modern birds. Of the three digits present, the first was shortest and the second longest. The structure of the carpal bones prevented pronation of the wrist and forced the 'hands' to be held with the palmar surface facing inwards (medially), not downwards.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velociraptor#Description

Apparently they were not as big as what MC made them out to be in the novel Jurassic Park. Theyre not even from the Jurassic period.

The_Librarian
14-04-2007, 03:35 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velociraptor#Description

Apparently they were not as big as what MC made them out to be in the novel Jurassic Park. Theyre not even from the Jurassic period.

That's movies for you - always goes for the stuff with the most dramatic impact... screw the details, we want to make money... :D

ghoti
14-04-2007, 03:40 PM
That's movies for you - always goes for the stuff with the most dramatic impact... screw the details, we want to make money... :D

I suppose Jurassic Park sounded better than Cretaceous Park.

I did some more checking... t.rex is not from the Jurassic period either!

nocilah
14-04-2007, 03:49 PM
i watched the Jurrasic Park movies just recently and i thought the depiction of dinosaurs was pretty cool... and i also recall them making refrences to birds and dinosaurs.

funny to think birds are some of the lightest creatures yet the stemmed from big huge dino's

The_Librarian
14-04-2007, 03:50 PM
I suppose Jurassic Park sounded better than Cretaceous Park.

I did some more checking... t.rex is not from the Jurassic period either!

Does that now? Interesting... just goes to show...

Well, anyway...

Jurassic Park / Boerassic Park do sound much better... Boerceous Park doesn't roll off the tongue either...

ghoti
14-04-2007, 04:05 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Velociraptor_dinoguy2.jpg

A velociraptor looks _nothing_ like the dinosaur in the movie. If you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velociraptor#Taxonomy you will see their is interesting discussion on it. Was it more lizard or more aven?


Whether Velociraptor was a bird or a dinosaur depends on the definition being used. Phylogenetically, all members of the clade Aves are dinosaurs. However, in Linnean taxonomy and common terminology, a "bird" is not just a member of Aves but any animal with feathers. Under the latter definition, Velociraptor and all maniraptoran dinosaurs are actually birds, since feather-bearing animals are known from every maniraptoran group.[14][20] Recently, fossils of dromaeosaurids more primitive than Velociraptor have been found in China, with feathers covering their bodies and fully-developed, feathered wings.[21] In light of this, it is most likely that Velociraptor bore feathers too, since even flightless birds today retain most of their feathers. While there is, as yet, no fossil evidence to confirm that Velociraptor had feathers, there is no reason to suspect it of being an exception.[4

The_Librarian
14-04-2007, 05:51 PM
wiz - mmmm... definitely interesting ;)

Telkomisaloser
14-04-2007, 08:52 PM
I'm thinking of having a roast T-rex... anyone want to join :D

supersunbird
14-04-2007, 09:07 PM
Boerassic Park do sound much better...

Orania!? :p

ghoti
15-04-2007, 09:12 AM
Orania!? :p

The dinosaurs would complain. Thats a little backwards :D jk