rpm
17-04-2007, 12:03 PM
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/nephp/?m=show&id=6175
View Full Version : Combined ADSL offerings start to see the light, savings in store for consumers
StefK
17-04-2007, 12:22 PM
Great, but just one question :
Does the either of the two prices quoted in the article include Telkoms R100 odd of analogue line rental?
rpm, could you possibly clarify?
Thanks
Does the either of the two prices quoted in the article include Telkoms R100 odd of analogue line rental?
rpm, could you possibly clarify?
Thanks
Chavez
17-04-2007, 12:24 PM
Great, but just one question :
Does the either of the two prices quoted in the article include Telkoms R100 odd of analogue line rental?
rpm, could you possibly clarify?
Thanks
NOPE
Does the either of the two prices quoted in the article include Telkoms R100 odd of analogue line rental?
rpm, could you possibly clarify?
Thanks
NOPE
Johnn0
17-04-2007, 12:31 PM
A step in the right direction...
emmanuel
17-04-2007, 12:39 PM
the occasional bone thrown in their direction
Should Neotel come to the party, Telkom is sure to collapse. But I suspect we'll not see R200 uncapped 4mbps product soon.
Should Neotel come to the party, Telkom is sure to collapse. But I suspect we'll not see R200 uncapped 4mbps product soon.
AirWolf
17-04-2007, 12:40 PM
So in fact it is still not one bill for the entire service.
VQuest
17-04-2007, 12:45 PM
It seems like we just can't win. The only people who will be making any kind of savings are those new ADSL users. The ones of us who already have a line will be on the losing end. I'm not going to cancel my line, pay another R400+ for installation, wait 6+ weeks only to find out I can't have ADSL.
Random717
17-04-2007, 12:45 PM
wtf! you have to cancel your adsl and then attempt to reorder it through the ISP? bwahaha are they crazy? i'm not risking months of being offline to save R6 p/m!
mancombseepgood
17-04-2007, 12:45 PM
The question is...
CAN I CANCEL MY ANALOGUE LINE AFTER MIGRATING TO ANOTHER SP?
CAN I CANCEL MY ANALOGUE LINE AFTER MIGRATING TO ANOTHER SP?
mancombseepgood
17-04-2007, 12:47 PM
It seems like we just can't win. The only people who will be making any kind of savings are those new ADSL users. The ones of us who already have a line will be on the losing end. I'm not going to cancel my line, pay another R400+ for installation, wait 6+ weeks only to find out I can't have ADSL.
I think one should order the new line, then cancel the old one...
I assume one doesn't have to order the "line" from telkom???
I think one should order the new line, then cancel the old one...
I assume one doesn't have to order the "line" from telkom???
DjStyles
17-04-2007, 12:50 PM
I would stillike to know, what happens to someone like me who has 2 ISP accounts with different providers. Can I continue to use WebAfrica's IS solution as well as my other providers Fibre account?
Some clarity would be good on this point.
Some clarity would be good on this point.
Johnn0
17-04-2007, 12:51 PM
Spoke to CyberSmart, the guy said that if I have an ADSL line then they activate everything from their side, so sounds like as long as the infrastructure is in place then the rest is handled by the ISP.
Not sure as to how long the process would take though
Not sure as to how long the process would take though
Wyzak
17-04-2007, 01:04 PM
However, in true anti-competitive spirit, Telkom have a ‘business process’ in place which states that in order for an ADSL circuit to be transferred to an ISP, it needs to be first cancelled by the customer and then a new application must be ordered,” said Laurie Fialkov, founder of Cybersmart.
Funny how Laurie Fialkov accuses Telkom of being anti-competitive while his ISP blacklists you if you use another ISP's account as well as theirs. You receive an email which states that it has been detected and that you have been downgraded to a poorer service level. Also you're not allowed to move the account to a different premises. Say you use the account at home, then go to a friend who also has ADSL, you won't be able to use your cybersmart account because it will be detected as a different premises and you'll be punished.
Anyone know if it will be possible to still use an ADSL account from a different service provider while your line is also provided by your current ISP?
Funny how Laurie Fialkov accuses Telkom of being anti-competitive while his ISP blacklists you if you use another ISP's account as well as theirs. You receive an email which states that it has been detected and that you have been downgraded to a poorer service level. Also you're not allowed to move the account to a different premises. Say you use the account at home, then go to a friend who also has ADSL, you won't be able to use your cybersmart account because it will be detected as a different premises and you'll be punished.
Anyone know if it will be possible to still use an ADSL account from a different service provider while your line is also provided by your current ISP?
StefK
17-04-2007, 01:20 PM
Funny how Laurie Fialkov accuses Telkom of being anti-competitive while his ISP blacklists you if you use another ISP's account as well as theirs. You receive an email which states that it has been detected and that you have been downgraded to a poorer service level. Also you're not allowed to move the account to a different premises. Say you use the account at home, then go to a friend who also has ADSL, you won't be able to use your cybersmart account because it will be detected as a different premises and you'll be punished.
Anyone know if it will be possible to still use an ADSL account from a different service provider while your line is also provided by your current ISP?
LOL. Tisk, tisk.
The depths people sink to for money... :)
Anyone know if it will be possible to still use an ADSL account from a different service provider while your line is also provided by your current ISP?
LOL. Tisk, tisk.
The depths people sink to for money... :)
jetpacman
17-04-2007, 01:26 PM
What about a reduction to the R245 line rental for 384.
I am not a heavy downloader and so I use prepaid internet together with my companies account (yes I have permission to do so). So my only real cost is for the line rental which is R245 + R99= R344. If the line rental could come down to R100 it would be great, then I will pay only R200 a month for internet. I don't like spending more than a tank of fuel at the moment on broadband
I am not a heavy downloader and so I use prepaid internet together with my companies account (yes I have permission to do so). So my only real cost is for the line rental which is R245 + R99= R344. If the line rental could come down to R100 it would be great, then I will pay only R200 a month for internet. I don't like spending more than a tank of fuel at the moment on broadband
Wyzak
17-04-2007, 01:38 PM
jetpacman lucky for you the fuel price is going up ;)
noxibox
17-04-2007, 01:41 PM
Does the either of the two prices quoted in the article include Telkoms R100 odd of analogue line rental?
No. This is how it works in the UK. You pay BT for a telephone line, then pay an ISP for DSL. 12 month contracts are fairly standard there too.
No. This is how it works in the UK. You pay BT for a telephone line, then pay an ISP for DSL. 12 month contracts are fairly standard there too.
bboy
17-04-2007, 01:42 PM
Have you read the restrictions on this account?
Insane stuff
"7. If you subscribe to our ADSL service, you are required to cancel any other ADSL service you may have with any other ISP. "
"You are required to use your @cybersmart.co.za email address that comes with this account. All billing information and notifications go to this address and we assume that if we have sent it there you have received it. Cybersmart reserves the right to block mail fetched from other networks either via pop or imap should we find that customers are not using their cybersmart email address. Should you wish to use another email address or guarantee that pop or imap is never blocked for you, it will cost you an addition R45 per month. "
"You may connect from ONE location only per account, you will AUTOMATICALLY be billed for every additional location(s) at R100 for each additional 192Kb connection, R125 for each 384Kb connection, R185 for each 512Kb location . You may only connect from ONE account per location. Additional accounts at the same location will be disabled and the owners of each of the secondary accounts will be charged an additional R65."
that last one is great.. so when telkom come do maintenance on your dslam and plug you into a different port before they go home, expect a penalty fee from cybersmart
Insane stuff
"7. If you subscribe to our ADSL service, you are required to cancel any other ADSL service you may have with any other ISP. "
"You are required to use your @cybersmart.co.za email address that comes with this account. All billing information and notifications go to this address and we assume that if we have sent it there you have received it. Cybersmart reserves the right to block mail fetched from other networks either via pop or imap should we find that customers are not using their cybersmart email address. Should you wish to use another email address or guarantee that pop or imap is never blocked for you, it will cost you an addition R45 per month. "
"You may connect from ONE location only per account, you will AUTOMATICALLY be billed for every additional location(s) at R100 for each additional 192Kb connection, R125 for each 384Kb connection, R185 for each 512Kb location . You may only connect from ONE account per location. Additional accounts at the same location will be disabled and the owners of each of the secondary accounts will be charged an additional R65."
that last one is great.. so when telkom come do maintenance on your dslam and plug you into a different port before they go home, expect a penalty fee from cybersmart
noxibox
17-04-2007, 01:47 PM
that last one is great.. so when telkom come do maintenance on your dslam and plug you into a different port before they go home, expect a penalty fee from cybersmart
Know of it ever happening? Their terms and conditions do read like they were written by a lawyer on a caffeine binge, but I have always found the company quite reasonable.
Know of it ever happening? Their terms and conditions do read like they were written by a lawyer on a caffeine binge, but I have always found the company quite reasonable.
noxibox
17-04-2007, 01:51 PM
Funny how Laurie Fialkov accuses Telkom of being anti-competitive while his ISP blacklists you if you use another ISP's account as well as theirs. You receive an email which states that it has been detected and that you have been downgraded to a poorer service level. Also you're not allowed to move the account to a different premises. Say you use the account at home, then go to a friend who also has ADSL, you won't be able to use your cybersmart account because it will be detected as a different premises and you'll be punished.
I've only ever had to do that once, but I just phoned them and let them know I needed to use it from a different location. No problem.
I do think it should be none of their business if you use more than one ISP. They can just refuse to provide any tech support. But nothing forces you to use their cheaper service. You can just pay more somewhere else.
I've only ever had to do that once, but I just phoned them and let them know I needed to use it from a different location. No problem.
I do think it should be none of their business if you use more than one ISP. They can just refuse to provide any tech support. But nothing forces you to use their cheaper service. You can just pay more somewhere else.
Random717
17-04-2007, 01:53 PM
um, a friend of mine :D has broken most of their terms and conditions, and has never been charged penalty fees!
StefK
17-04-2007, 02:06 PM
No. This is how it works in the UK. You pay BT for a telephone line, then pay an ISP for DSL. 12 month contracts are fairly standard there too.
Great, thanks.
Have you read the restrictions on this account?
Insane stuff
"7. If you subscribe to our ADSL service, you are required to cancel any other ADSL service you may have with any other ISP. "
"You are required to use your @cybersmart.co.za email address that comes with this account. All billing information and notifications go to this address and we assume that if we have sent it there you have received it. Cybersmart reserves the right to block mail fetched from other networks either via pop or imap should we find that customers are not using their cybersmart email address. Should you wish to use another email address or guarantee that pop or imap is never blocked for you, it will cost you an addition R45 per month. "
"You may connect from ONE location only per account, you will AUTOMATICALLY be billed for every additional location(s) at R100 for each additional 192Kb connection, R125 for each 384Kb connection, R185 for each 512Kb location . You may only connect from ONE account per location. Additional accounts at the same location will be disabled and the owners of each of the secondary accounts will be charged an additional R65."
that last one is great.. so when telkom come do maintenance on your dslam and plug you into a different port before they go home, expect a penalty fee from cybersmart
Sheesh. What bunch of communist lawyers drew that up?
And, what is point 8 then?
8) By signing this document, you agree that CyberSmart is now your one and only chosen religion and thus to the terms stated below:
a)If you should be found participate in any other religious activity, you wil be billed in arrears at the rate of R100 per mass/sermon, R 150 per communion and R200 per baptism/wedding.
b)If your marriage is presided over by another religious entity your spouse will be seized and used as a slave/concubine by the CEO of CyberSmart for all of eternity, futhermore any children springing forth form this unholy union, will be exiled and imprisoned in the CyberSmart Customer Call Centre unto the end of their days.
;)
Great, thanks.
Have you read the restrictions on this account?
Insane stuff
"7. If you subscribe to our ADSL service, you are required to cancel any other ADSL service you may have with any other ISP. "
"You are required to use your @cybersmart.co.za email address that comes with this account. All billing information and notifications go to this address and we assume that if we have sent it there you have received it. Cybersmart reserves the right to block mail fetched from other networks either via pop or imap should we find that customers are not using their cybersmart email address. Should you wish to use another email address or guarantee that pop or imap is never blocked for you, it will cost you an addition R45 per month. "
"You may connect from ONE location only per account, you will AUTOMATICALLY be billed for every additional location(s) at R100 for each additional 192Kb connection, R125 for each 384Kb connection, R185 for each 512Kb location . You may only connect from ONE account per location. Additional accounts at the same location will be disabled and the owners of each of the secondary accounts will be charged an additional R65."
that last one is great.. so when telkom come do maintenance on your dslam and plug you into a different port before they go home, expect a penalty fee from cybersmart
Sheesh. What bunch of communist lawyers drew that up?
And, what is point 8 then?
8) By signing this document, you agree that CyberSmart is now your one and only chosen religion and thus to the terms stated below:
a)If you should be found participate in any other religious activity, you wil be billed in arrears at the rate of R100 per mass/sermon, R 150 per communion and R200 per baptism/wedding.
b)If your marriage is presided over by another religious entity your spouse will be seized and used as a slave/concubine by the CEO of CyberSmart for all of eternity, futhermore any children springing forth form this unholy union, will be exiled and imprisoned in the CyberSmart Customer Call Centre unto the end of their days.
;)
Johnn0
17-04-2007, 02:10 PM
futhermore any children springing forth form this unholy union, will be exiled and imprisoned in the CyberSmart Customer Call Centre unto the end of their days.
This could be the case, spoke to a couple of people at their call center, non of them sounded happy to be there... :D
This could be the case, spoke to a couple of people at their call center, non of them sounded happy to be there... :D
Hogrod
17-04-2007, 02:14 PM
Have you read the restrictions on this account?
Insane stuff
"7. If you subscribe to our ADSL service, you are required to cancel any other ADSL service you may have with any other ISP. "
"You may connect from ONE location only per account, you will AUTOMATICALLY be billed for every additional location(s) at R100 for each additional 192Kb connection, R125 for each 384Kb connection, R185 for each 512Kb location . You may only connect from ONE account per location. Additional accounts at the same location will be disabled and the owners of each of the secondary accounts will be charged an additional R65."
that last one is great.. so when telkom come do maintenance on your dslam and plug you into a different port before they go home, expect a penalty fee from cybersmart
I believe the T&Cs re interpreted this way
1. You don't need to not have another ISP. Just don't be daft enough to phone in for Cybersmart's help when you've screwed up your own connection settings by using another ISP. I.e if you have problems with Routesentry or connecting with a Web Africa account don't phone Cybersmart! People waste their time too much because they have to provide support for products they don't support!
2. The last T&C means you can't connect using another Cybersmart account. You can connect multiple sessions in one location using your own Cybersmart account. You can also get away with a different ISP but only if you follow (point 1).
Obviously the T&Cs are good for some and bad for others. Personally it works for me and also they are the cheapest and the T&Cs are manageable for my requirements. In fact having the security of Cybersmart only allowing my login to be used in one location prevents bandwidth theft!
Insane stuff
"7. If you subscribe to our ADSL service, you are required to cancel any other ADSL service you may have with any other ISP. "
"You may connect from ONE location only per account, you will AUTOMATICALLY be billed for every additional location(s) at R100 for each additional 192Kb connection, R125 for each 384Kb connection, R185 for each 512Kb location . You may only connect from ONE account per location. Additional accounts at the same location will be disabled and the owners of each of the secondary accounts will be charged an additional R65."
that last one is great.. so when telkom come do maintenance on your dslam and plug you into a different port before they go home, expect a penalty fee from cybersmart
I believe the T&Cs re interpreted this way
1. You don't need to not have another ISP. Just don't be daft enough to phone in for Cybersmart's help when you've screwed up your own connection settings by using another ISP. I.e if you have problems with Routesentry or connecting with a Web Africa account don't phone Cybersmart! People waste their time too much because they have to provide support for products they don't support!
2. The last T&C means you can't connect using another Cybersmart account. You can connect multiple sessions in one location using your own Cybersmart account. You can also get away with a different ISP but only if you follow (point 1).
Obviously the T&Cs are good for some and bad for others. Personally it works for me and also they are the cheapest and the T&Cs are manageable for my requirements. In fact having the security of Cybersmart only allowing my login to be used in one location prevents bandwidth theft!
ldmelsa
17-04-2007, 02:24 PM
What were we talking about again? Oh yes, Cybersmart one price product.
Gatecrasher
17-04-2007, 02:26 PM
Can't say this development is at all exciting. Savings are likely to be minimal, but ISP mobility and flexibility for users is likely to be severely compromised. It is rather like relinquishing the right of MNP for a fixed number for life approch.
No doubt ISP's will be trying to encase all their clients in onorous service contracts to compensate for the additional support requirements. It will also give Telkom an excuse to claim that they are not responsible for the criminally profiteering ADSL access rental. Once more they will be passing the buck over to the ISPs.
There is only going to be one winner here, as usual, Telkom.
No doubt ISP's will be trying to encase all their clients in onorous service contracts to compensate for the additional support requirements. It will also give Telkom an excuse to claim that they are not responsible for the criminally profiteering ADSL access rental. Once more they will be passing the buck over to the ISPs.
There is only going to be one winner here, as usual, Telkom.
Hogrod
17-04-2007, 02:27 PM
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit @ 56kMan ;).
...I've already applied to move my line to Cybersmart! Join me!
...I've already applied to move my line to Cybersmart! Join me!
Gatecrasher
17-04-2007, 02:35 PM
Another question to be raised is "What about Telkom Closer clients?"
Just from the Cybersmart example of R339pm for 384kbps/3Gb, you can get this right now for the equivalent of R324pm if you are on Telkom's Closer Plan 4 (R199 for 384kbps ADSL, R125 for 3Gb).
The all-in-one Cybersmart product costs R15pm more.
Just from the Cybersmart example of R339pm for 384kbps/3Gb, you can get this right now for the equivalent of R324pm if you are on Telkom's Closer Plan 4 (R199 for 384kbps ADSL, R125 for 3Gb).
The all-in-one Cybersmart product costs R15pm more.
Hogrod
17-04-2007, 02:48 PM
Another question to be raised is "What about Telkom Closer clients?"
Just from the Cybersmart example of R339pm for 384kbps/3Gb, you can get this right now for the equivalent of R324pm if you are on Telkom's Closer Plan 4 (R199 for 384kbps ADSL, R125 for 3Gb).
The all-in-one Cybersmart product costs R15pm more.
Yes but Telkom closer costs R499 a month. I don't spend R499 on my phone bill even with ADSL and ISP included
Just from the Cybersmart example of R339pm for 384kbps/3Gb, you can get this right now for the equivalent of R324pm if you are on Telkom's Closer Plan 4 (R199 for 384kbps ADSL, R125 for 3Gb).
The all-in-one Cybersmart product costs R15pm more.
Yes but Telkom closer costs R499 a month. I don't spend R499 on my phone bill even with ADSL and ISP included
Hogrod
17-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Hi Folks,
I applied for the change of ADSL line from Telkom to Cybersmart.
They just called me and wanted to make sure that I knew about the fact that I will have to pay for a new installation fee for a new phone line to avoid downtime.
Go here to read
http://faq.cybersmart.co.za/index.php?action=artikel&cat=6&id=60&artlang=en
This is madness, Telkom are f-ing us over again!
I've cancelled to save myself the charge and downtime!
I applied for the change of ADSL line from Telkom to Cybersmart.
They just called me and wanted to make sure that I knew about the fact that I will have to pay for a new installation fee for a new phone line to avoid downtime.
Go here to read
http://faq.cybersmart.co.za/index.php?action=artikel&cat=6&id=60&artlang=en
This is madness, Telkom are f-ing us over again!
I've cancelled to save myself the charge and downtime!
ldmelsa
17-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit @ 56kMan ;).
...I've already applied to move my line to Cybersmart! Join me!
I'm waiting for Neotel :D
...I've already applied to move my line to Cybersmart! Join me!
I'm waiting for Neotel :D
Ekhaatvensters
17-04-2007, 03:03 PM
that last one is great.. so when telkom come do maintenance on your dslam and plug you into a different port before they go home, expect a penalty fee from cybersmart
Are these restrictions even new? Cybersmart has always had better prices than any other ISP for 3Gig aco****s, so these types on terms might have been in place before?
Other ISP's would probably offer this as a normal account, I'm just worried about the first clause.... if we sign up will we have no option but Cybersmart (or WebAfrica for example) as our ISP?
I can't use only Cybersmart because they have no local only access, so I'll have to wait for another provider :(
Are these restrictions even new? Cybersmart has always had better prices than any other ISP for 3Gig aco****s, so these types on terms might have been in place before?
Other ISP's would probably offer this as a normal account, I'm just worried about the first clause.... if we sign up will we have no option but Cybersmart (or WebAfrica for example) as our ISP?
I can't use only Cybersmart because they have no local only access, so I'll have to wait for another provider :(
reech
17-04-2007, 03:03 PM
The structure of the pricing is fixed with this development - the pricing itself remains whacky.
Oh Well.
Oh Well.
telkomsuig
17-04-2007, 03:11 PM
I am not willing to pay another R400 installation fee so I'll just have to wait and see what happens in the next 12 months.
R4tt3xx
17-04-2007, 03:19 PM
It's a step in the right direction, most ADSL users will not be "migrating" their lines yet over to a 3rd party ISP even if it's cheaper. What SA needs is local loop unbundling.....
ldmelsa
17-04-2007, 03:23 PM
It's a step in the right direction, most ADSL users will not be "migrating" their lines yet over to a 3rd party ISP even if it's cheaper. What SA needs is local loop unbundling.....
Don't worry. Ivy is on top of the LLU.
Don't worry. Ivy is on top of the LLU.
StefK
17-04-2007, 03:23 PM
I'm waiting for Neotel :D
Lucky for you their arrival is imminent. :)
Lucky for you their arrival is imminent. :)
cybercloud
17-04-2007, 03:56 PM
Don't worry. Ivy is on top of the LLU. That's what I'm afraid of :mad:
Tanarri
17-04-2007, 04:11 PM
Don't worry. Ivy is on top of the LLU.
The poisonous vines does only extend from her hands...
The poisonous vines does only extend from her hands...
Gatecrasher
17-04-2007, 04:20 PM
Yes but Telkom closer costs R499 a month. I don't spend R499 on my phone bill even with ADSL and ISP included
Then you are not a Telkom Closer client, and my comments do not apply to you.
But for anyone on a Closer Plan, moving to a combined offering makes even less sense.
Then you are not a Telkom Closer client, and my comments do not apply to you.
But for anyone on a Closer Plan, moving to a combined offering makes even less sense.
Fudzy
17-04-2007, 04:27 PM
Why are 1 & 4MBps priced differently? Aren't they the same on Telkom?
EDIT: Who wrote the article?
EDIT: Who wrote the article?
Johnn0
17-04-2007, 04:44 PM
wasn't it rpm?
ldmelsa
17-04-2007, 04:49 PM
Why are 1 & 4MBps priced differently? Aren't they the same on Telkom?
EDIT: Who wrote the article?
I would also like to know.
EDIT: Who wrote the article?
I would also like to know.
noxibox
17-04-2007, 04:49 PM
Don't worry. Ivy is on top of the LLU.
We're going to need a strong lever to lift her off.
We're going to need a strong lever to lift her off.
Jonny Two Shoes
17-04-2007, 04:50 PM
I share ADSL with some of our family living on the same plot as us, just seperate house. We do have a phone line running to our house but it has never been used or even activated. Im wondering if it would be worth installing and using with something like Cybersmarts offer?
Is this just a matter of one phone call, pay, wait a while (installation etc), confirm bank details, sign a form and done?
Is this just a matter of one phone call, pay, wait a while (installation etc), confirm bank details, sign a form and done?
bwana
17-04-2007, 04:51 PM
Why are 1 & 4MBps priced differently? Aren't they the same on Telkom?
EDIT: Who wrote the article?Seems to me it is Cybersmart who is charging different amounts for 1Mb/s or 4Mb/s.
EDIT: Who wrote the article?Seems to me it is Cybersmart who is charging different amounts for 1Mb/s or 4Mb/s.
ryan411
17-04-2007, 04:52 PM
Words cannot describe how much I hate Telkom for making me wait so long to get their crappy overpriced ADSL...
The new pricing model seems to lock one into a specific ISP :eek: When can we get clarification on how it works if u change ISPs?
And being stuck paying the rip-off ADSL rental directly to Telkom... unless willing to go without connectivity for a while? That sucks @ss! :mad:
The new pricing model seems to lock one into a specific ISP :eek: When can we get clarification on how it works if u change ISPs?
And being stuck paying the rip-off ADSL rental directly to Telkom... unless willing to go without connectivity for a while? That sucks @ss! :mad:
laurie
17-04-2007, 04:52 PM
I think there is a slight misunderstanding of the concept of "anti-competitive".
An anti-competitive position exists when a single company has a dominant or monopolistic share of a market and is using that position to the detriment of other players. Let's take a real world example. Coca-Cola has a policy of
enforcing that only coca-cola products are distributed in their fridges. This is not anti-competitive as you have an option of buying your own fridge or that of a competitor. This is not the case in the adsl market. As an ISP we can
only buy ADSL circuit resell from Telkom. If they make a blanket decision not
to allow transfers of the circuit into our name to secure their dominant hold on the market, that is anti-competitive as there is no alternative place to buy ADSL circuit resell and hence there is no recourse for us ( or any ISP for that matter). On a pure theoretical argument it is impossible for Cybersmart to be anti-competitive since although we now hold a fair portion of the adsl market, we do not hold a dominant position and further there are alternatives for the customer.
It is always amusing to see selective parts of our terms and conditions not only paraphrased but taken out of context too. Then to compound matters there is a claim that if you use our account in more than one place you receive nasty emails about service degradation. It is impossible to use our accounts in more than one place as it locks to the location you first authenticate, so there is no reason for us send "nasty" warning emails and why or how Wyzak received such a warning email remains a mystery to me. We have always suspected that we would be able to give single price to the customer and our terms and conditions have been geared towards this eventuallity and for this reason the terms and conditions ask you to cancel with your existing adsl ( and only adsl ) provider if you subscribe to our service. Single price adsl is the norm everywhere in the world and if you want to have multiple providers you will need to get multiple circuit. The concept of getting an account and using it anywhere you like is peculiar to this country because of the market that Telkom have created. To follow this logic through to the next step, why shouldn't you be able to buy an adsl account from us and then use it on an iburst/sentch/mtn/vodacom wireless circuit? Nobody seems to find this strange because the consumer has always been presented with a single price for both circuit and account for all wireless offerings, in fact you cannot even interchange accounts on vodacom and mtn networks that use the same technology. We feel that single price adsl will be the norm in future and have geared our offerings towards it. Presently it is possible to get the circuit and the account from a single ISP and then to buy other accounts from other ISP's, but I can't see this norm continuing into the future.
Regards
Laurie
Funny how Laurie Fialkov accuses Telkom of being anti-competitive while his ISP blacklists you if you use another ISP's account as well as theirs. You receive an email which states that it has been detected and that you have been downgraded to a poorer service level. Also you're not allowed to move the account to a different premises. Say you use the account at home, then go to a friend who also has ADSL, you won't be able to use your cybersmart account because it will be detected as a different premises and you'll be punished.
Anyone know if it will be possible to still use an ADSL account from a different service provider while your line is also provided by your current ISP?
An anti-competitive position exists when a single company has a dominant or monopolistic share of a market and is using that position to the detriment of other players. Let's take a real world example. Coca-Cola has a policy of
enforcing that only coca-cola products are distributed in their fridges. This is not anti-competitive as you have an option of buying your own fridge or that of a competitor. This is not the case in the adsl market. As an ISP we can
only buy ADSL circuit resell from Telkom. If they make a blanket decision not
to allow transfers of the circuit into our name to secure their dominant hold on the market, that is anti-competitive as there is no alternative place to buy ADSL circuit resell and hence there is no recourse for us ( or any ISP for that matter). On a pure theoretical argument it is impossible for Cybersmart to be anti-competitive since although we now hold a fair portion of the adsl market, we do not hold a dominant position and further there are alternatives for the customer.
It is always amusing to see selective parts of our terms and conditions not only paraphrased but taken out of context too. Then to compound matters there is a claim that if you use our account in more than one place you receive nasty emails about service degradation. It is impossible to use our accounts in more than one place as it locks to the location you first authenticate, so there is no reason for us send "nasty" warning emails and why or how Wyzak received such a warning email remains a mystery to me. We have always suspected that we would be able to give single price to the customer and our terms and conditions have been geared towards this eventuallity and for this reason the terms and conditions ask you to cancel with your existing adsl ( and only adsl ) provider if you subscribe to our service. Single price adsl is the norm everywhere in the world and if you want to have multiple providers you will need to get multiple circuit. The concept of getting an account and using it anywhere you like is peculiar to this country because of the market that Telkom have created. To follow this logic through to the next step, why shouldn't you be able to buy an adsl account from us and then use it on an iburst/sentch/mtn/vodacom wireless circuit? Nobody seems to find this strange because the consumer has always been presented with a single price for both circuit and account for all wireless offerings, in fact you cannot even interchange accounts on vodacom and mtn networks that use the same technology. We feel that single price adsl will be the norm in future and have geared our offerings towards it. Presently it is possible to get the circuit and the account from a single ISP and then to buy other accounts from other ISP's, but I can't see this norm continuing into the future.
Regards
Laurie
Funny how Laurie Fialkov accuses Telkom of being anti-competitive while his ISP blacklists you if you use another ISP's account as well as theirs. You receive an email which states that it has been detected and that you have been downgraded to a poorer service level. Also you're not allowed to move the account to a different premises. Say you use the account at home, then go to a friend who also has ADSL, you won't be able to use your cybersmart account because it will be detected as a different premises and you'll be punished.
Anyone know if it will be possible to still use an ADSL account from a different service provider while your line is also provided by your current ISP?
Ekhaatvensters
17-04-2007, 05:00 PM
Why are 1 & 4MBps priced differently? Aren't they the same on Telkom?
EDIT: Who wrote the article?
Because only Cybersmart are offering the service atm, and they differentiate between line speeds and bandwidth costs, its part of how they provide such cheap 3 Gig accounts. They also charge less for 384 compared to 512.
Other ISP's shouldn't have this if they didn't already, but Cybersmart is the only one I know of.
EDIT: Who wrote the article?
Because only Cybersmart are offering the service atm, and they differentiate between line speeds and bandwidth costs, its part of how they provide such cheap 3 Gig accounts. They also charge less for 384 compared to 512.
Other ISP's shouldn't have this if they didn't already, but Cybersmart is the only one I know of.
MrG
17-04-2007, 05:01 PM
I need my TelkomInternet (International) and WebAfrica Local Only...
Laurie, this norm will not carry on, the second I can come to Cybersmart and pay lets say R200 for 3GB International and 30GB Local...
and when I use local it does NOT come off my international traffic I have left.
Also IS International is not good because of the SAT connection, we need SAT3 Fibre for international, the IS network is fine for local access.
Until Local is removed from local and international comes from international, people NEED two ISP accounts for the two forms of IP traffic.
Laurie, this norm will not carry on, the second I can come to Cybersmart and pay lets say R200 for 3GB International and 30GB Local...
and when I use local it does NOT come off my international traffic I have left.
Also IS International is not good because of the SAT connection, we need SAT3 Fibre for international, the IS network is fine for local access.
Until Local is removed from local and international comes from international, people NEED two ISP accounts for the two forms of IP traffic.
Ekhaatvensters
17-04-2007, 05:02 PM
The new pricing model seems to lock one into a specific ISP :eek: When can we get clarification on how it works if u change ISPs?
This is also a Cybersmart condition, since before this service, if you check their Terms and Conditions on old services.
The single charge ADSL could still lock you into one ISP, but I don't see why, it should work exactly the same as a normal ADSL line.
This is also a Cybersmart condition, since before this service, if you check their Terms and Conditions on old services.
The single charge ADSL could still lock you into one ISP, but I don't see why, it should work exactly the same as a normal ADSL line.
Syndyre
17-04-2007, 05:31 PM
The concept of getting an account and using it anywhere you like is peculiar to this country because of the market that Telkom have created. To follow this logic through to the next step, why shouldn't you be able to buy an adsl account from us and then use it on an iburst/sentch/mtn/vodacom wireless circuit? Nobody seems to find this strange because the consumer has always been presented with a single price for both circuit and account for all wireless offerings, in fact you cannot even interchange accounts on vodacom and mtn networks that use the same technology. We feel that single price adsl will be the norm in future and have geared our offerings towards it. Presently it is possible to get the circuit and the account from a single ISP and then to buy other accounts from other ISP's, but I can't see this norm continuing into the future.
I'm sorry but this is a stupid argument, the fact is that the ADSL market in this country is "peculiar" in that, unlike other countries, there is effectively one ADSL network and a number of resellers for that network, so of course you can use the account anywhere seeing as you are still effectively on the same network. Vodacom and MTN are fundamentally different networks as are Iburst, Sentech etc. whereas any ADSL line in the country is provided by Telkom and connects to the same network. This may not be the norm internationally but its pretty clear to most people that the local ADSL market is anything but normal, which is why people are forced to use multiple accounts etc due to the obscene pricing and low caps. Granted this may not always be possible but for as long as it is then it makes sense for ISPs to allow their customers the greatest amount of flexibility as possible, especially when their competitors do so. As they're paying per GB it doesn't really matter what location they use it from or whether they use it concurrently and with the unique ADSL "line rental" Telkom has come up with they don't see the need to charge for an account per line as they already receive an additional income from the line whether it has its own account linked to it or not.
I'm sorry but this is a stupid argument, the fact is that the ADSL market in this country is "peculiar" in that, unlike other countries, there is effectively one ADSL network and a number of resellers for that network, so of course you can use the account anywhere seeing as you are still effectively on the same network. Vodacom and MTN are fundamentally different networks as are Iburst, Sentech etc. whereas any ADSL line in the country is provided by Telkom and connects to the same network. This may not be the norm internationally but its pretty clear to most people that the local ADSL market is anything but normal, which is why people are forced to use multiple accounts etc due to the obscene pricing and low caps. Granted this may not always be possible but for as long as it is then it makes sense for ISPs to allow their customers the greatest amount of flexibility as possible, especially when their competitors do so. As they're paying per GB it doesn't really matter what location they use it from or whether they use it concurrently and with the unique ADSL "line rental" Telkom has come up with they don't see the need to charge for an account per line as they already receive an additional income from the line whether it has its own account linked to it or not.
Gatecrasher
17-04-2007, 05:43 PM
Presently it is possible to get the circuit and the account from a single ISP and then to buy other accounts from other ISP's, but I can't see this norm continuing into the future.
Just because it is unique to SA does not mean it will not continue. If ISPs wish to avoid this from happening they need to offer a full range of packages to their clients at competitive prices. Unless that happens customers will continue to vote with their feet.
What will happen when clients want to move to another ISP? Do they have to cancel their ADSL service and re-apply? Do they need to get a "clearance" from one ISP in order to migrate to another? Can people get cut-off from ADSL access completely on the whim of an ISP?
I think theire are a lot of questions that have not yet been addressed.
ADSL subscribers need to consider the freedom and flexibility they are giving up in order to save a few rands.
Just because it is unique to SA does not mean it will not continue. If ISPs wish to avoid this from happening they need to offer a full range of packages to their clients at competitive prices. Unless that happens customers will continue to vote with their feet.
What will happen when clients want to move to another ISP? Do they have to cancel their ADSL service and re-apply? Do they need to get a "clearance" from one ISP in order to migrate to another? Can people get cut-off from ADSL access completely on the whim of an ISP?
I think theire are a lot of questions that have not yet been addressed.
ADSL subscribers need to consider the freedom and flexibility they are giving up in order to save a few rands.
Myrrdin
17-04-2007, 05:53 PM
All I see is Telkom in a couple of months saying "It's not us charging an additional unnessary charge for line rental its the ISP" just like they are currently doing with the cap issue. It's all smoke and mirrors.
ic
17-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Not surprised to find TelkodemonopoliesHindernet getting preferential treatment from Telkodemonopolies.
'1-p-ADSL' is still evil as far as I am concerned.
'1-p-ADSL' is still evil as far as I am concerned.
laurie
17-04-2007, 06:39 PM
The ADSL resell model is the interim step required before local loop unbundling. There are already frameworks in place such as VANs licence converstion and interconnect that indicates that ADSL will move towards international practices and a single price. As a customer you will only see real savings when the local loop is unbundled and we can put down our own dslams and interconnect is enforced.
With regards to the wireless analogy not being relevant. Lets take CellC and Virgin mobile. The argument against the pertinance of the analogy is that the networks are different. Virgin definitely use CellC's network, assuming CellC has a data offering ( which I don't know if they do), I am pretty certain you would not be able to buy account from either supplier and use it interchangeably even though the networks are the same
Consumers are obviously worried about Network lock-in, because as noted here, there are certain weird and wonderful requirements of certain users that cannot be met by a single ISP. Speaking for ourselves, we try to cater for what we perceive as the requirements for the average adsl user in the South African environment. There will be a number of users that will not see benefit in our offering, particularly those who use 30Gig local only accounts. Without interconnect agreements in place, it is just not reasonable for us to try to compete in this arena so we don't. So as quite correctly noted, the market is not normal, but change is happening and it looks like it will tend to international standards in the long term. ISP's in general need to ask themselves whether they plan to resell Telkom accounts or provide their own adsl network when they are able to do so and gear their products accordingly. The short term view is to offer anything and everything, we have never pursued this route, we offer products which we feel will be in line with our future business direction and the direction the industry will tend towards
Regards
Laurie
I'm sorry but this is a stupid argument, the fact is that the ADSL market in this country is "peculiar" in that, unlike other countries, there is effectively one ADSL network and a number of resellers for that network, so of course you can use the account anywhere seeing as you are still effectively on the same network. Vodacom and MTN are fundamentally different networks as are Iburst, Sentech etc. whereas any ADSL line in the country is provided by Telkom and connects to the same network. This may not be the norm internationally but its pretty clear to most people that the local ADSL market is anything but normal, which is why people are forced to use multiple accounts etc due to the obscene pricing and low caps. Granted this may not always be possible but for as long as it is then it makes sense for ISPs to allow their customers the greatest amount of flexibility as possible, especially when their competitors do so. As they're paying per GB it doesn't really matter what location they use it from or whether they use it concurrently and with the unique ADSL "line rental" Telkom has come up with they don't see the need to charge for an account per line as they already receive an additional income from the line whether it has its own account linked to it or not.
With regards to the wireless analogy not being relevant. Lets take CellC and Virgin mobile. The argument against the pertinance of the analogy is that the networks are different. Virgin definitely use CellC's network, assuming CellC has a data offering ( which I don't know if they do), I am pretty certain you would not be able to buy account from either supplier and use it interchangeably even though the networks are the same
Consumers are obviously worried about Network lock-in, because as noted here, there are certain weird and wonderful requirements of certain users that cannot be met by a single ISP. Speaking for ourselves, we try to cater for what we perceive as the requirements for the average adsl user in the South African environment. There will be a number of users that will not see benefit in our offering, particularly those who use 30Gig local only accounts. Without interconnect agreements in place, it is just not reasonable for us to try to compete in this arena so we don't. So as quite correctly noted, the market is not normal, but change is happening and it looks like it will tend to international standards in the long term. ISP's in general need to ask themselves whether they plan to resell Telkom accounts or provide their own adsl network when they are able to do so and gear their products accordingly. The short term view is to offer anything and everything, we have never pursued this route, we offer products which we feel will be in line with our future business direction and the direction the industry will tend towards
Regards
Laurie
I'm sorry but this is a stupid argument, the fact is that the ADSL market in this country is "peculiar" in that, unlike other countries, there is effectively one ADSL network and a number of resellers for that network, so of course you can use the account anywhere seeing as you are still effectively on the same network. Vodacom and MTN are fundamentally different networks as are Iburst, Sentech etc. whereas any ADSL line in the country is provided by Telkom and connects to the same network. This may not be the norm internationally but its pretty clear to most people that the local ADSL market is anything but normal, which is why people are forced to use multiple accounts etc due to the obscene pricing and low caps. Granted this may not always be possible but for as long as it is then it makes sense for ISPs to allow their customers the greatest amount of flexibility as possible, especially when their competitors do so. As they're paying per GB it doesn't really matter what location they use it from or whether they use it concurrently and with the unique ADSL "line rental" Telkom has come up with they don't see the need to charge for an account per line as they already receive an additional income from the line whether it has its own account linked to it or not.
Syndyre
17-04-2007, 06:56 PM
The ADSL resell model is the interim step required before local loop unbundling. There are already frameworks in place such as VANs licence converstion and interconnect that indicates that ADSL will move towards international practices and a single price. As a customer you will only see real savings when the local loop is unbundled and we can put down our own dslams and interconnect is enforced.
With regards to the wireless analogy not being relevant. Lets take CellC and Virgin mobile. The argument against the pertinance of the analogy is that the networks are different. Virgin definitely use CellC's network, assuming CellC has a data offering ( which I don't know if they do), I am pretty certain you would not be able to buy account from either supplier and use it interchangeably even though the networks are the same
Consumers are obviously worried about Network lock-in, because as noted here, there are certain weird and wonderful requirements of certain users that cannot be met by a single ISP. Speaking for ourselves, we try to cater for what we perceive as the requirements for the average adsl user in the South African environment. There will be a number of users that will not see benefit in our offering, particularly those who use 30Gig local only accounts. Without interconnect agreements in place, it is just not reasonable for us to try to compete in this arena so we don't. So as quite correctly noted, the market is not normal, but change is happening and it looks like it will tend to international standards in the long term. ISP's in general need to ask themselves whether they plan to resell Telkom accounts or provide their own adsl network when they are able to do so and gear their products accordingly. The short term view is to offer anything and everything, we have never pursued this route, we offer products which we feel will be in line with our future business direction and the direction the industry will tend towards
Regards
Laurie
Fair enough, I don't think many forumites on here are average users anyway, most of us probably fall into a niche market so we have different requirements etc. Clearly LLU is the way to go, for both ISPs and customers, lets just hope it happens sometime soon. I still don't follow the Virgin Mobile / Cell C logic to be honest, not sure if I'm missing something. The way I see it is that in the cellular context an account can be equated to a sim card which stores the MSISDN etc. that the account is linked to, that sim card can then be placed in any compatible device and that device will then establish a connection to the appropriate network. In the ADSL sphere the account login would essentially be the equivalent of a sim card, which can then be used to connect to the specific network, in this case via an active Telkom ADSL line.
With regards to the wireless analogy not being relevant. Lets take CellC and Virgin mobile. The argument against the pertinance of the analogy is that the networks are different. Virgin definitely use CellC's network, assuming CellC has a data offering ( which I don't know if they do), I am pretty certain you would not be able to buy account from either supplier and use it interchangeably even though the networks are the same
Consumers are obviously worried about Network lock-in, because as noted here, there are certain weird and wonderful requirements of certain users that cannot be met by a single ISP. Speaking for ourselves, we try to cater for what we perceive as the requirements for the average adsl user in the South African environment. There will be a number of users that will not see benefit in our offering, particularly those who use 30Gig local only accounts. Without interconnect agreements in place, it is just not reasonable for us to try to compete in this arena so we don't. So as quite correctly noted, the market is not normal, but change is happening and it looks like it will tend to international standards in the long term. ISP's in general need to ask themselves whether they plan to resell Telkom accounts or provide their own adsl network when they are able to do so and gear their products accordingly. The short term view is to offer anything and everything, we have never pursued this route, we offer products which we feel will be in line with our future business direction and the direction the industry will tend towards
Regards
Laurie
Fair enough, I don't think many forumites on here are average users anyway, most of us probably fall into a niche market so we have different requirements etc. Clearly LLU is the way to go, for both ISPs and customers, lets just hope it happens sometime soon. I still don't follow the Virgin Mobile / Cell C logic to be honest, not sure if I'm missing something. The way I see it is that in the cellular context an account can be equated to a sim card which stores the MSISDN etc. that the account is linked to, that sim card can then be placed in any compatible device and that device will then establish a connection to the appropriate network. In the ADSL sphere the account login would essentially be the equivalent of a sim card, which can then be used to connect to the specific network, in this case via an active Telkom ADSL line.
feo
17-04-2007, 07:32 PM
All this stuff is so confusing. Is it THAT hard to just pay a fixed amount say 250 bucks for a fast high cap/uncapped connection? I think LLU will be the only thing to fix this mess.
Fudzy
17-04-2007, 09:03 PM
Atleast with Telkom running the whole show it rules out the buck passing when there's a problem. I can just see the scenario now. Phone up your ISP to say that your line isn't working, ISP tells you it's Telkom's fault, Telkom tells you it's the ISP fault :(
ldmelsa
17-04-2007, 09:22 PM
Atleast with Telkom running the whole show it rules out the buck passing when there's a problem. I can just see the scenario now. Phone up your ISP to say that your line isn't working, ISP tells you it's Telkom's fault, Telkom tells you it's the ISP fault :(
If there is something wrong with the actual line then it is obviously Telkom's problem, right?
ISP: Cybersmart (one price thing) R339
Plus
Telco's line: Telkom R100
If there is something wrong with the actual line then it is obviously Telkom's problem, right?
ISP: Cybersmart (one price thing) R339
Plus
Telco's line: Telkom R100
ldmelsa
17-04-2007, 09:27 PM
If there is something wrong with the actual line then it is obviously Telkom's problem, right?
ISP: Cybersmart (one price thing) R339
Plus
Telco's line: Telkom R100
How can the physical hardware have anything to do with an ISP like Cybersmart - Local loop is holy owned by Telkom!
ISP: Cybersmart (one price thing) R339
Plus
Telco's line: Telkom R100
How can the physical hardware have anything to do with an ISP like Cybersmart - Local loop is holy owned by Telkom!
AirWolf
17-04-2007, 10:37 PM
If there is something wrong with the actual line then it is obviously Telkom's problem, right?
ISP: Cybersmart (one price thing) R339
Plus
Telco's line: Telkom R100
Not necessarily. We had a similar problem with out telephone lines at work (not ADSL). Our swithboard and internal lines are provided by another company. We had a problem with noisy lines. Company doing internal lines checked and said it was a fault on Telkom's side. Telkom checked and said it was other companies fault:rolleyes: Other company came back and said it was Telkoms fault ...
ISP: Cybersmart (one price thing) R339
Plus
Telco's line: Telkom R100
Not necessarily. We had a similar problem with out telephone lines at work (not ADSL). Our swithboard and internal lines are provided by another company. We had a problem with noisy lines. Company doing internal lines checked and said it was a fault on Telkom's side. Telkom checked and said it was other companies fault:rolleyes: Other company came back and said it was Telkoms fault ...
DragonLogos
17-04-2007, 11:36 PM
Well here we go again, first off we are talking about something that should not be there in the first place, ie the ' ADSL Access ' Charge, which for example is R 245,00 for the 384 service
So now you will have a situation were ISPs are dragged into this charge, which should not be there in the first place, and might not be too keen to give it up once money starts coming in from it, of course Telkom is re-selling what is really empty space and thus ensuring a fat profit for doing nothing other than pulling a fast one over us via ICASA's inability to do the job they are paid to do
Next you have people that are signed for two years to Telkom that cannot move, and those that can have to pay a trumped up charge to do so, and of course Telkom can still sucker people in with the closer package, but people work for a business, and it is these businesses that are paying more than what they should, and trust me in the months ahead you are going to see high food prices and high transport prices, all of which could be made less if there was a competitive communications environment
Despite all the promises in the press, and the odd rolling head, it is fairly safe to assume that nothing of real consequence is going to happen for a few years
The only real solution is for an ISP to take this product and sell it at cost, this way it would be way cheaper, the ISP would not see it as a profit area. or they could take the money from the service and pay the change over charge provided that the user signs a one year contract
So now you will have a situation were ISPs are dragged into this charge, which should not be there in the first place, and might not be too keen to give it up once money starts coming in from it, of course Telkom is re-selling what is really empty space and thus ensuring a fat profit for doing nothing other than pulling a fast one over us via ICASA's inability to do the job they are paid to do
Next you have people that are signed for two years to Telkom that cannot move, and those that can have to pay a trumped up charge to do so, and of course Telkom can still sucker people in with the closer package, but people work for a business, and it is these businesses that are paying more than what they should, and trust me in the months ahead you are going to see high food prices and high transport prices, all of which could be made less if there was a competitive communications environment
Despite all the promises in the press, and the odd rolling head, it is fairly safe to assume that nothing of real consequence is going to happen for a few years
The only real solution is for an ISP to take this product and sell it at cost, this way it would be way cheaper, the ISP would not see it as a profit area. or they could take the money from the service and pay the change over charge provided that the user signs a one year contract
Abe
18-04-2007, 03:18 AM
Consumers are obviously worried about Network lock-in, because as noted here, there are certain weird and wonderful requirements of certain users that cannot be met by a single ISP.
The problem with ISP lock in is that here in SA, an installation can take months. Overseas its a couple of days. It's difficult to accept your arguments about a single solution because of these installation problems here. I can start using Vodacom tomorrow or Cell C, VM or MTN. On the ADSL side, I can switch to OpenWeb immediately if thats what I want. Now with the line portion tied to the ISP, I am buggered. Your terms and conditions effective rule you out because of this.
The problem with ISP lock in is that here in SA, an installation can take months. Overseas its a couple of days. It's difficult to accept your arguments about a single solution because of these installation problems here. I can start using Vodacom tomorrow or Cell C, VM or MTN. On the ADSL side, I can switch to OpenWeb immediately if thats what I want. Now with the line portion tied to the ISP, I am buggered. Your terms and conditions effective rule you out because of this.
Roo!
18-04-2007, 07:51 AM
IMHO, Cybersmart's argument is a load of hogwash. In SA we pay for a line rental which is currently R100. This gives us a physical access point to the LL and is obviously fixed (as opposed to mobile). Then we pay the bogus 'ADSL Access Levy' (from whichever source), which is simple a fee to be able to use ADSL, it is not bound to the fixed line from Telkom. Then we pay for the bandwidth we use via the 'ADSL Access Levy'.
The analogy of what our ADSL offering is like is better served by comparing it to a standard dial-up solution. You pay for a line rental (or not, actually, there is no requirement for having your own line). Then you pay for a username and password to access an ISP's modem rack. Then you pay for the time spent online (as opposed to bandwidth used). This combination entitles you to access the internet cloud from absolutely anywhere is SA and pay (or not) for the time spent online.
You can not compare us to the likes of the UK, since they pay for the line rental and a monthly charge for bandwidth usage (which is uncapped in most cases). Since we are ripped off in SA by being forced to pay this 'ADSL Access Levy' we therefore must be given the right to access ADSL anywhere we like, since that is exactly what we pay for. Anything else is in contravention of this and should be seen as illegal and until the 'ADSL Access Levy' is abolished stay away from such ISPs that force a one location connection.
The analogy of what our ADSL offering is like is better served by comparing it to a standard dial-up solution. You pay for a line rental (or not, actually, there is no requirement for having your own line). Then you pay for a username and password to access an ISP's modem rack. Then you pay for the time spent online (as opposed to bandwidth used). This combination entitles you to access the internet cloud from absolutely anywhere is SA and pay (or not) for the time spent online.
You can not compare us to the likes of the UK, since they pay for the line rental and a monthly charge for bandwidth usage (which is uncapped in most cases). Since we are ripped off in SA by being forced to pay this 'ADSL Access Levy' we therefore must be given the right to access ADSL anywhere we like, since that is exactly what we pay for. Anything else is in contravention of this and should be seen as illegal and until the 'ADSL Access Levy' is abolished stay away from such ISPs that force a one location connection.
DblD
18-04-2007, 08:04 AM
Can someone please explain the reasoning behind monthly ADSL ACCESS rental?
I have not found a single point one could be able to use to give plausible explanation to why is this charged?
I have not found a single point one could be able to use to give plausible explanation to why is this charged?
StefK
18-04-2007, 08:31 AM
Can someone please explain the reasoning behind monthly ADSL ACCESS rental?
I have not found a single point one could be able to use to give plausible explanation to why is this charged?
Profit. :)
I have not found a single point one could be able to use to give plausible explanation to why is this charged?
Profit. :)
feo
18-04-2007, 08:36 AM
Its just a bogus charge that Telkom has to rake in even more money. It serves NO purpose, and is probably the main hinderence to improving our penetration rate. That charge has GOT TO GO!
DblD
18-04-2007, 08:55 AM
If memory serves me correctly, Telkom was asked to produce report on how their fees where structured and submit it for a review and probable adjustment if its found that there was unreasonable profiteering..
That was just a request by ICASA in light that the SPECIFIC ADSL LAW was passed and signed by the president and is STILL ignored is another matter...
That was just a request by ICASA in light that the SPECIFIC ADSL LAW was passed and signed by the president and is STILL ignored is another matter...
Slinky511nx7
18-04-2007, 08:57 AM
Are these restrictions even new? Cybersmart has always had better prices than any other ISP for 3Gig aco****s, so these types on terms might have been in place before?
What on earth could you have typed in there to get it censored? LOL
What on earth could you have typed in there to get it censored? LOL
Fudzy
18-04-2007, 09:13 AM
BWHAHA. i think he missed the 'o' out of accounts
Gatecrasher
18-04-2007, 09:21 AM
BWHAHA. i think he missed the 'o' out of accounts
I think he transposed the "o" and the "c". Nice one.
That's what happens if you are writing and thinking of Telkom at the same time.
I think he transposed the "o" and the "c". Nice one.
That's what happens if you are writing and thinking of Telkom at the same time.
StefK
18-04-2007, 09:26 AM
If memory serves me correctly, Telkom was asked to produce report on how their fees where structured and submit it for a review and probable adjustment if its found that there was unreasonable profiteering..
That was just a request by ICASA in light that the SPECIFIC ADSL LAW was passed and signed by the president and is STILL ignored is another matter...
Exactly. Telkom's "cost report" that had to be submitted, has not been mentioned anywhere since the (shaite) ADSL regulations initally came out.
I think he transposed the "o" and the "c". Nice one.
That's what happens if you are writing and thinking of Telkom at the same time.
Agreed, that was a Freudian slip. :)
That was just a request by ICASA in light that the SPECIFIC ADSL LAW was passed and signed by the president and is STILL ignored is another matter...
Exactly. Telkom's "cost report" that had to be submitted, has not been mentioned anywhere since the (shaite) ADSL regulations initally came out.
I think he transposed the "o" and the "c". Nice one.
That's what happens if you are writing and thinking of Telkom at the same time.
Agreed, that was a Freudian slip. :)
Roman4604
18-04-2007, 09:42 AM
Its just a bogus charge that Telkom has to rake in even more money.I wouldn't say its totally fictitious, but rather way, way overpriced. Telkom's logic probably goes something like this ...
1. Line rental = cost/maint of copper (+ tel switch infrastrucutre)
2. ADSL line rental = costs/maint of infrastrucutre/ATM bw to move traffic between DSLAM and ESR
3. ADSL Account = cost of IP bw from ESR to local/intl Internet destinations.
Overseas they just bundle 1+2+3 (- tel sw) as an ADSL service. I think Telkom's bundling of 2+3 is a step in the right direction however it does not really address the exorbitant pricing for each item (esp. 1 & 2 which we know have negligable cost).
1. Line rental = cost/maint of copper (+ tel switch infrastrucutre)
2. ADSL line rental = costs/maint of infrastrucutre/ATM bw to move traffic between DSLAM and ESR
3. ADSL Account = cost of IP bw from ESR to local/intl Internet destinations.
Overseas they just bundle 1+2+3 (- tel sw) as an ADSL service. I think Telkom's bundling of 2+3 is a step in the right direction however it does not really address the exorbitant pricing for each item (esp. 1 & 2 which we know have negligable cost).
Fudzy
18-04-2007, 10:06 AM
Would be nice to see a representative of this ISP answering our questions on this forum :(
riaan_pta
18-04-2007, 01:20 PM
At the risk of repeating what has already been said, I have to make sure I understand this.
In order to make use of this new model I'll have to:
1. Have my existing/working ADSL line cancelled from Telkom by the new ISP.
2. Run the risk of being disconnect for a couple of weeks/months while waiting for Telkom to "install" a new ADSL line.
3. Pay (again) for a new ADSL line "installation".
4. In addition to paying the new ISP for my ADSL line - still have to pay Telkom R100 per month for a landline connection I do not use.
5. Be locked into one ISP as long as I use the service.
6. Repeat all the above when I decide to change my ISP?
... and I would want to do this, why? :confused:
In order to make use of this new model I'll have to:
1. Have my existing/working ADSL line cancelled from Telkom by the new ISP.
2. Run the risk of being disconnect for a couple of weeks/months while waiting for Telkom to "install" a new ADSL line.
3. Pay (again) for a new ADSL line "installation".
4. In addition to paying the new ISP for my ADSL line - still have to pay Telkom R100 per month for a landline connection I do not use.
5. Be locked into one ISP as long as I use the service.
6. Repeat all the above when I decide to change my ISP?
... and I would want to do this, why? :confused:
Alkazar
18-04-2007, 02:04 PM
Well here we go again, first off we are talking about something that should not be there in the first place, ie the ' ADSL Access ' Charge, which for example is R 245,00 for the 384 service
So now you will have a situation were ISPs are dragged into this charge, which should not be there in the first place, and might not be too keen to give it up once money starts coming in from it, of course Telkom is re-selling what is really empty space and thus ensuring a fat profit for doing nothing other than pulling a fast one over us via ICASA's inability to do the job they are paid to do
IMHO, Cybersmart's argument is a load of hogwash. In SA we pay for a line rental which is currently R100. This gives us a physical access point to the LL and is obviously fixed (as opposed to mobile). Then we pay the bogus 'ADSL Access Levy' (from whichever source), which is simple a fee to be able to use ADSL, it is not bound to the fixed line from Telkom. Then we pay for the bandwidth we use via the 'ADSL Access Levy'.
You can not compare us to the likes of the UK, since they pay for the line rental and a monthly charge for bandwidth usage (which is uncapped in most cases). Since we are ripped off in SA by being forced to pay this 'ADSL Access Levy' we therefore must be given the right to access ADSL anywhere we like, since that is exactly what we pay for. Anything else is in contravention of this and should be seen as illegal and until the 'ADSL Access Levy' is abolished stay away from such ISPs that force a one location connection.
Its just a bogus charge that Telkom has to rake in even more money. It serves NO purpose, and is probably the main hinderence to improving our penetration rate. That charge has GOT TO GO!
etc. etc....
To everyone that thinks we should not be paying a monthly "ADSL Access" fee or even paying Telkom for a telephone line that is a requirement for ADSL access, please consider the following:
The monthly charge for the ADSL circuit, i.e the ADSL line (a misnomer) or ADSL access charge, can not be done away with and is charged in all countries but is normally a hidden charge charged by the ISP and not the telco. The ISP then pays the telco for the ADSL circuit. You also need to have a standard telephone line provided by the telco and you usually have to pay the telco seperately for this.
In the UK and US they do pay a monthly fee for their ADSL circuit. Bandwidth is so cheap in these countries that the monthly charge for ADSL is actually mostly the charge for the ADSL circuit.
For example, BT Broadband in the UK only charge £0.30 (just over R4) per GB for extra bandwidth but charge £17.99 (about R250) per month for a 5GB access account at 8 Mbps - 5GB of data transfer would only cost £1.50 (about R20) so the other £16.50 (R230) per month is just for the ADSL circuit.
Using our bandwidth prices of about R70 per GB (about 17 times more expensive) this would be the equivalent of paying R4250 per month for a 5GB access account!
Our monthly ADSL circuit charge (for 1 to 4 Mbps) is about 65% of the total monthly cost of a 5GB account. BT's monthly ADSL circuit charge (for 8 Mbps) is about 90% of the total monthly cost of a 5GB account.
Our monthly ADSL circuit charge is therefore a smaller percentage of the cost of ADSL than in the UK.
Also, no matter where in the world you use ADSL you need a telephone line and you normally pay one or other telco a fee for the telephone line - so paying a standard monthly telephone line rental to Telkom is not unreasonable.
The only thing that is unreasonable in this country is the high cost of bandwidth and the excessive rate charged for the ADSL circuit.
If Telkom did not charge this ADSL circuit fee you would in effect be getting an ADSL service for FREE (only paying for the data you transfer). If Telkom did not charge you a telephone line rental you would be getting a telephone line for FREE.
It does not cost a telco like Telkom NOTHING to provide, maintain and repair the copper telephone lines so you cannot expect to get a telephone line for FREE.
It does not cost a telco like Telkom NOTHING to provide, maintain and repair the ADSL circuit (incl. DSLAM etc.) so you cannot expect to get an ADSL circuit for FREE.
You need to pay for what you use. The problem is that Telkom OVERCHARGES for these services.
Telkom's charges (for telephone line rental AND for an ADSL circuit AND for ADSL bandwidth) need to be reduced drastically, but each of the charges are valid charges as each of these items do not cost NOTHING to provide.
So now you will have a situation were ISPs are dragged into this charge, which should not be there in the first place, and might not be too keen to give it up once money starts coming in from it, of course Telkom is re-selling what is really empty space and thus ensuring a fat profit for doing nothing other than pulling a fast one over us via ICASA's inability to do the job they are paid to do
IMHO, Cybersmart's argument is a load of hogwash. In SA we pay for a line rental which is currently R100. This gives us a physical access point to the LL and is obviously fixed (as opposed to mobile). Then we pay the bogus 'ADSL Access Levy' (from whichever source), which is simple a fee to be able to use ADSL, it is not bound to the fixed line from Telkom. Then we pay for the bandwidth we use via the 'ADSL Access Levy'.
You can not compare us to the likes of the UK, since they pay for the line rental and a monthly charge for bandwidth usage (which is uncapped in most cases). Since we are ripped off in SA by being forced to pay this 'ADSL Access Levy' we therefore must be given the right to access ADSL anywhere we like, since that is exactly what we pay for. Anything else is in contravention of this and should be seen as illegal and until the 'ADSL Access Levy' is abolished stay away from such ISPs that force a one location connection.
Its just a bogus charge that Telkom has to rake in even more money. It serves NO purpose, and is probably the main hinderence to improving our penetration rate. That charge has GOT TO GO!
etc. etc....
To everyone that thinks we should not be paying a monthly "ADSL Access" fee or even paying Telkom for a telephone line that is a requirement for ADSL access, please consider the following:
The monthly charge for the ADSL circuit, i.e the ADSL line (a misnomer) or ADSL access charge, can not be done away with and is charged in all countries but is normally a hidden charge charged by the ISP and not the telco. The ISP then pays the telco for the ADSL circuit. You also need to have a standard telephone line provided by the telco and you usually have to pay the telco seperately for this.
In the UK and US they do pay a monthly fee for their ADSL circuit. Bandwidth is so cheap in these countries that the monthly charge for ADSL is actually mostly the charge for the ADSL circuit.
For example, BT Broadband in the UK only charge £0.30 (just over R4) per GB for extra bandwidth but charge £17.99 (about R250) per month for a 5GB access account at 8 Mbps - 5GB of data transfer would only cost £1.50 (about R20) so the other £16.50 (R230) per month is just for the ADSL circuit.
Using our bandwidth prices of about R70 per GB (about 17 times more expensive) this would be the equivalent of paying R4250 per month for a 5GB access account!
Our monthly ADSL circuit charge (for 1 to 4 Mbps) is about 65% of the total monthly cost of a 5GB account. BT's monthly ADSL circuit charge (for 8 Mbps) is about 90% of the total monthly cost of a 5GB account.
Our monthly ADSL circuit charge is therefore a smaller percentage of the cost of ADSL than in the UK.
Also, no matter where in the world you use ADSL you need a telephone line and you normally pay one or other telco a fee for the telephone line - so paying a standard monthly telephone line rental to Telkom is not unreasonable.
The only thing that is unreasonable in this country is the high cost of bandwidth and the excessive rate charged for the ADSL circuit.
If Telkom did not charge this ADSL circuit fee you would in effect be getting an ADSL service for FREE (only paying for the data you transfer). If Telkom did not charge you a telephone line rental you would be getting a telephone line for FREE.
It does not cost a telco like Telkom NOTHING to provide, maintain and repair the copper telephone lines so you cannot expect to get a telephone line for FREE.
It does not cost a telco like Telkom NOTHING to provide, maintain and repair the ADSL circuit (incl. DSLAM etc.) so you cannot expect to get an ADSL circuit for FREE.
You need to pay for what you use. The problem is that Telkom OVERCHARGES for these services.
Telkom's charges (for telephone line rental AND for an ADSL circuit AND for ADSL bandwidth) need to be reduced drastically, but each of the charges are valid charges as each of these items do not cost NOTHING to provide.
laurie
18-04-2007, 04:43 PM
I represent Cybersmart and have posted 2 comments already.
Pretty much all the points I would have raised have been documented
fairly comprehensively by Alkazar
Would be nice to see a representative of this ISP answering our questions on this forum :(
Pretty much all the points I would have raised have been documented
fairly comprehensively by Alkazar
Would be nice to see a representative of this ISP answering our questions on this forum :(
Shake&Bake
18-04-2007, 07:11 PM
I'm with Cybersmart since I hooked up a couple of months ago. I'm dissapointed that I never got a little e-mail to tell me about this new option. Been busy working and haven't had much time to be here.
About the T&C's, they do seem a bit Gestapo, but I think they're within rights when it comes to having to sort out problems that customers have made, because of jumping with other ISP's.
Cybersmart will do for me now - in no way am I gonna fork out any more cash for Telscum. The bastards and their business processes - kuk man! More ways to rip us off! Whats the use in wanting to pass on savings, but in order to benefit - we have to lose more money!?
Nice to see a rep here for Cybersmart.
I don't think they advertise on our forums....:rolleyes:
rpm - sort them out - if they wanna defend their stance. Let them cough up some advertising revenue. :D
*cof cof*
About the T&C's, they do seem a bit Gestapo, but I think they're within rights when it comes to having to sort out problems that customers have made, because of jumping with other ISP's.
Cybersmart will do for me now - in no way am I gonna fork out any more cash for Telscum. The bastards and their business processes - kuk man! More ways to rip us off! Whats the use in wanting to pass on savings, but in order to benefit - we have to lose more money!?
Nice to see a rep here for Cybersmart.
I don't think they advertise on our forums....:rolleyes:
rpm - sort them out - if they wanna defend their stance. Let them cough up some advertising revenue. :D
*cof cof*
feo
18-04-2007, 08:38 PM
Alkazar the main difference is that other countries TOTAL charge all inclusive for everything is close to R250pm. Here we pay what? 200 odd for "access charge" (read bullcrap charge) and 200 odd I think for international and 100 for line rental and more if you want a local only account so we end up paying closer to 500 bucks for a ****ty 384 "broadband" service. If we maybe had a 2Mbps service for 250 bucks a month ALL inclusive then I wouldn't care if 240 of that was toward an access charge, the problem is that we have charges on charges and it all adds up to ridiculous amounts.
Alkazar
18-04-2007, 09:19 PM
Agreed - our TOTAL all inclusive charge is too high.
We should be paying about R250 pm in total (ADSL circuit plus bandwidth, but still excluding telephone line rental).
This should include unlimited and unshaped LOCAL bandwidth (with a fair use policy) and at least 5 GB of unshaped international bandwidth, with local usage not affecting your international usage allowance.
We should be paying about R250 pm in total (ADSL circuit plus bandwidth, but still excluding telephone line rental).
This should include unlimited and unshaped LOCAL bandwidth (with a fair use policy) and at least 5 GB of unshaped international bandwidth, with local usage not affecting your international usage allowance.
AirWolf
18-04-2007, 09:37 PM
Its just a bogus charge that Telkom has to rake in even more money. It serves NO purpose, and is probably the main hinderence to improving our penetration rate. That charge has GOT TO GO!
1% ADSL and 1% HSDPA doesn't amount to an erection, let alone market penetration:rolleyes:
1% ADSL and 1% HSDPA doesn't amount to an erection, let alone market penetration:rolleyes:
feo
18-04-2007, 09:58 PM
lol yeah^^.
And even we had uncapped subject to fair use policy that'd still be worlds better than the pathetic 3 gigs we get now. Like if we go over 50gigs or something then the speed gets throttled for a while until we cool down and then they up the speed again.
And even we had uncapped subject to fair use policy that'd still be worlds better than the pathetic 3 gigs we get now. Like if we go over 50gigs or something then the speed gets throttled for a while until we cool down and then they up the speed again.
riaan_pta
18-04-2007, 10:43 PM
in no way am I gonna fork out any more cash for Telscum.
Sad fact remains - no matter who you pay - telkom still receives your money.
Sad fact remains - no matter who you pay - telkom still receives your money.
DragonLogos
19-04-2007, 03:42 AM
etc. etc....
To everyone that thinks we should not be paying a monthly "ADSL Access" fee or even paying Telkom for a telephone line that is a requirement for ADSL access, please consider the following:
Also, no matter where in the world you use ADSL you need a telephone line and you normally pay one or other telco a fee for the telephone line - so paying a standard monthly telephone line rental to Telkom is not unreasonable.
If Telkom did not charge this ADSL circuit fee you would in effect be getting an ADSL service for FREE (only paying for the data you transfer). If Telkom did not charge you a telephone line rental you would be getting a telephone line for FREE.
.
Well I can understand that you are new to the situation, in case you were not aware a few years back there ICASA held hearings on ADSL - and one of the findings was that the ' ADSL Line Rental ' was a charge that should be dropped. The tiny amount it costs can be built into the ISP charge, as it is it will disappear from view, but will still be there, like you have a breakages charge, which was introduced for 78 Records (as they were very fragile) and it slipped over to Singles and LPs (that hardly had the same problem) and is still charged on CDs - or like the usage charges for water that were introduced because of the drought, but even though the drought is long gone, they are still there, because they are providing an easy revenue, which is much better than addressing the more difficult problems
Now while I am the same Burk that wrote the song ' Free Local Calls ' - I am also the same Burk that has said on more than one occasion that Free Local calls should be referred to as un-metered local calls, as it gives the wrong idea, which is the merry walk down the road of non payment
Lower prices are one thing, but fair service is another. It is like the difference between average and normal, the average amount of limbs that people have is always going to be below 3.9 but the normal amount is 4 - Now if you look at your phone service the cost per customer is very low, the more people you have the lower it is, and just with this rental Telkom is making a roaring profit. Now as you may know once you are on the loop, it costs nothing to the phone company for the users to make local calls, which is why in the USA, Canada and New Zealand you have un-metered local calls. So it is not a question of lower prices, it is a question of service choices that suit the user, and knowing what services to ask for example another Dragon Story: ' Peace in our Time '
Many years ago there was a big problem between the Veggi Dinos and the Meaty Dinos - there was fighting and wars, name calling, boycotts, strikes... it was the worst of times. So they decided that there should be a meeting of all the Dinosaurs, and they would work this issue out. Anyway they all got together and it was a boring affair, speaker after speaker, going on and on... One of the Meaty Dinos fell asleep, and then half way through a snore woke up, looked around, saw two lovely looking Veggi Dinos either side, and in a flash ate them both.
Everyone immediately stopped, and looked at what just happened... you could hear a pin drop. Then the Chief Veggi Dino got up and cried " Please God can we have Peace " - And just at that moment a huge meteor came down and wiped them all out
The morel of the story is:
Next time ask to live in peace
To everyone that thinks we should not be paying a monthly "ADSL Access" fee or even paying Telkom for a telephone line that is a requirement for ADSL access, please consider the following:
Also, no matter where in the world you use ADSL you need a telephone line and you normally pay one or other telco a fee for the telephone line - so paying a standard monthly telephone line rental to Telkom is not unreasonable.
If Telkom did not charge this ADSL circuit fee you would in effect be getting an ADSL service for FREE (only paying for the data you transfer). If Telkom did not charge you a telephone line rental you would be getting a telephone line for FREE.
.
Well I can understand that you are new to the situation, in case you were not aware a few years back there ICASA held hearings on ADSL - and one of the findings was that the ' ADSL Line Rental ' was a charge that should be dropped. The tiny amount it costs can be built into the ISP charge, as it is it will disappear from view, but will still be there, like you have a breakages charge, which was introduced for 78 Records (as they were very fragile) and it slipped over to Singles and LPs (that hardly had the same problem) and is still charged on CDs - or like the usage charges for water that were introduced because of the drought, but even though the drought is long gone, they are still there, because they are providing an easy revenue, which is much better than addressing the more difficult problems
Now while I am the same Burk that wrote the song ' Free Local Calls ' - I am also the same Burk that has said on more than one occasion that Free Local calls should be referred to as un-metered local calls, as it gives the wrong idea, which is the merry walk down the road of non payment
Lower prices are one thing, but fair service is another. It is like the difference between average and normal, the average amount of limbs that people have is always going to be below 3.9 but the normal amount is 4 - Now if you look at your phone service the cost per customer is very low, the more people you have the lower it is, and just with this rental Telkom is making a roaring profit. Now as you may know once you are on the loop, it costs nothing to the phone company for the users to make local calls, which is why in the USA, Canada and New Zealand you have un-metered local calls. So it is not a question of lower prices, it is a question of service choices that suit the user, and knowing what services to ask for example another Dragon Story: ' Peace in our Time '
Many years ago there was a big problem between the Veggi Dinos and the Meaty Dinos - there was fighting and wars, name calling, boycotts, strikes... it was the worst of times. So they decided that there should be a meeting of all the Dinosaurs, and they would work this issue out. Anyway they all got together and it was a boring affair, speaker after speaker, going on and on... One of the Meaty Dinos fell asleep, and then half way through a snore woke up, looked around, saw two lovely looking Veggi Dinos either side, and in a flash ate them both.
Everyone immediately stopped, and looked at what just happened... you could hear a pin drop. Then the Chief Veggi Dino got up and cried " Please God can we have Peace " - And just at that moment a huge meteor came down and wiped them all out
The morel of the story is:
Next time ask to live in peace
Lord Anubis
19-04-2007, 09:57 AM
No wonder ISDN is till more popular than ADSL.
What a joke this pathetic country is becoming
What a joke this pathetic country is becoming
ryan411
21-04-2007, 06:21 PM
I have been trying to organise ADSL since Nov 2006 and thanks to Telkom stuffing me around time and time again, I am still on ISDN...
Am beginning to wonder whom do I have to bribe or kill to get some results...
These technicians just don't phone u back and there doesn't seem to be a way to phone them directly :mad:
The one guy gave me his number but i either took it down wrong (i was on standby[Good Friday] at the airport) or it was fictitious :confused:
Am beginning to wonder whom do I have to bribe or kill to get some results...
These technicians just don't phone u back and there doesn't seem to be a way to phone them directly :mad:
The one guy gave me his number but i either took it down wrong (i was on standby[Good Friday] at the airport) or it was fictitious :confused:
ldmelsa
21-04-2007, 07:05 PM
Ithere doesn't seem to be a way to phone them directly
There is. They have Telkom cell phones.
There is. They have Telkom cell phones.
ryan411
10-05-2007, 05:05 PM
@56kMan: Well they are very reluctant to give out those numbers, understandably so :p
Am in the process of trying to get someone at head office to wrap this up... Will see what happens...
Am in the process of trying to get someone at head office to wrap this up... Will see what happens...