Gods design?

[bk.ru]

You know, it has always puzzled me from an 'if god exists' perspective as to why humans would sometimes be born with tails, or extra nipples or something similar and equally bizarre.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/9662/humantail8fj6.th.jpg

To this however the theist has an explanation that is good enough for me personally.. It's because mankind are bad, nasty bastards and that due to sin these things happen.

This indeed can be evidenced given the biblical gods; "I will punish the child for the sins of the father" speeches when kids are born with webbed fingers and similar things, (this generally occurs when a person is bonking their sister/cousin).

So I will accept that and move on. Mankind grow tails and what not because god is showing them that their actions will not go unpunished. Mess with me, grow a tail kinda attitude.. I can dig it.

However...

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/113/fourlegduckpa450x269hc1.th.jpg

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/9265/sixlegpiguppa450x314uj5.th.jpg

Why? I can only seemingly come up with 2 explanations from an 'if god exists' perspective:

A) god made a mess up somewhere along the lines or

B) god purposely wanted the occasional pig or duck or whatever to grow extra limbs, extra heads, extra sacks.. whatever.

My question is to the more fundamentalist theist, (dodo).

Which of A and B is the more apparent answer? Can you explain why in either case? If neither, do you have another suggestion that I have missed?

It seems apparent we can't say that ducks are all sinners.. If so what happened? Father duck swam too fast which is a sin and so therefore baby duck was born with extra legs?

Let us for a second consider some guy that is rather ignorant of both science and religion. A scientist comes up and explains about evolution and mutation which show why a duck or pig would grow extra limbs out of it's ass. Later on a theist comes up and explains that god is perfect and created everything.. What does he say to the man when it comes to explaining the ducks condition?

Many thanks

P.S Would it not seem overly apparent given that we're quite hairy, get goosebumps, have wisdom teeth and sometimes grow tails that we have an original trail from some kind of monkey like creature? Or would it be more apparent to state that god did it for kicks? Based upon this argument alone, how would you - the theist - persuade someone that is ignorant of both religion and science?

[ant5]

Great questions...
Dont also forget the appendix:

" The vermiform appendage—in which some recent medical writers have vainly endeavoured to find a utility—is the shrunken remainder of a large and normal intestine of a remote ancestor. This interpretation of it would stand even if it were found to have a certain use in the human body. Vestigial organs are sometimes pressed into a secondary use when their original function has been lost.
The appendix is thought to have descended from an organ in our distant herbivorous ancestors called the cecum (or cæcum). The cecum is maintained in modern herbivores, where it houses the bacteria that digest cellulose, a chemically tough carbohydrate that these animals could not otherwise utilize. The human appendix contains no significant number of these bacteria, and cellulose is indigestible to humans. It seems likely that the appendix lost this function before human ancestors became recognizably human."

From Wiki

[Mr TB]

Great questions...
Dont also forget the appendix:

" The vermiform appendage—in which some recent medical writers have vainly endeavoured to find a utility—is the shrunken remainder of a large and normal intestine of a remote ancestor. This interpretation of it would stand even if it were found to have a certain use in the human body. Vestigial organs are sometimes pressed into a secondary use when their original function has been lost.
The appendix is thought to have descended from an organ in our distant herbivorous ancestors called the cecum (or cæcum). The cecum is maintained in modern herbivores, where it houses the bacteria that digest cellulose, a chemically tough carbohydrate that these animals could not otherwise utilize. The human appendix contains no significant number of these bacteria, and cellulose is indigestible to humans. It seems likely that the appendix lost this function before human ancestors became recognizably human."

From Wiki
Suppose there is no god the answer is mankind messed everything up.
This earth is out of sinc because of mankind...

Now if there is a God, the answer is exactly the same, by his disobedience mankind caused this earth to be out of sinc...

Mankind is required to accept responsibility for his actions but will rather hide behind theories disposing of God...

[ant5]

Mankind is required to accept responsibility for his actions but will rather hide behind theories disposing of God...

There is so much overwhelming evidence, no wonder it's called "BLIND FAITH" !!

[Mr TB]

There is so much overwhelming evidence, no wonder it's called "BLIND FAITH" !!

Only those who wish not to accept their resposibiliry calls it "blind faith"... from your statement I assume you are also not will to take on your responsibilities on earth...

[ant5]

Only those who wish not to accept their resposibiliry calls it "blind faith"... from your statement I assume you are also not will to take on your responsibilities on earth...

Not sure what this has to do with anything but anyway...
Of course I accept my responsibilities in my life, I don't feel the need to have to assign them to some higher power.

I'm sure the debate that is developing here has been done a million times and a million times better than now. This one is already off on a tangent!

[Mr TB]

IN RESPONSE TO bk.ru:

Why? I can only seemingly come up with 2 explanations from an 'if god exists' perspective:

"A) god made a mess up somewhere along the lines"
Wrong, God's creation is perfect but due to your disobedience the earth is cursed. Your disobedience. Read again your disobedience...

B) god purposely wanted the occasional pig or duck or whatever to grow extra limbs, extra heads, extra sacks.. whatever.
Wrong. You were disobedient. You cursed the earth. You are the for misformed creatures , babies etc... It is your fault because you were disobedient. You cursed the earth. Read... You cursed the earth.

My question is to the more fundamentalist theist, (dodo).
Which of A and B is the more apparent answer? Can you explain why in either case? If neither, do you have another suggestion that I have missed?

Not A or B but you are responsible for the cursed earth, you are responsible for aids, you are responsible for cancer because you were disobedient and are still disobedient ... you are...

[Mr TB]

There is so much overwhelming evidence, no wonder it's called "BLIND FAITH" !!
You have made a remark without giving it thought.
You must have more faith to accept to accept evolution, because how did life start... no explanation...none.
The answer I get, ummm... it is not part of the study of evolution...
Don't ask me where God come from... it is not part of the study of christianity.

[Highflyer_GP]

Yeah afterall our disobedience is responsible for six-legged pigs :/

[dablakmark8]

IN RESPONSE TO bk.ru:

Why? I can only seemingly come up with 2 explanations from an 'if god exists' perspective:

"A) god made a mess up somewhere along the lines"
Wrong, God's creation is perfect but due to your disobedience the earth is cursed. Your disobedience. Read again your disobedience...

B) god purposely wanted the occasional pig or duck or whatever to grow extra limbs, extra heads, extra sacks.. whatever.
Wrong. You were disobedient. You cursed the earth. You are the for misformed creatures , babies etc... It is your fault because you were disobedient. You cursed the earth. Read... You cursed the earth.

My question is to the more fundamentalist theist, (dodo).
Which of A and B is the more apparent answer? Can you explain why in either case? If neither, do you have another suggestion that I have missed?

Not A or B but you are responsible for the cursed earth, you are responsible for aids, you are responsible for cancer because you were disobedient and are still disobedient ... you are...

original sin caused death to be established,and this leaded to more complicated things like what you said.

[ant5]

You have made a remark without giving it thought.
You must have more faith to accept to accept evolution, because how did life start... no explanation...none.

At the risk of dredging up another well worn question:
"Where did god come from then?"

You're gonna tell me he was always there....now THAT takes faith.

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe - Carl Sagan"

Oops sorry, you asked me not to ask you that question, since it is not part of the study of christianity. I submit that science is intricately studying the question of where we come from, not hiding behind faith of any sort. What science does not know is readily admitted....

[ant5]

original sin caused death to be established,and this leaded to more complicated things like what you said.

Now that's an answer that really destroyed the question!!:D

[ghoti]

Watch out bk.ru, Dodo`s god is about to punish you real bad this time. An 8 legged chicken! (supper at your place?)

[Neo]

Yeah afterall our disobedience is responsible for six-legged pigs :/

We know dodo can be completely bonkers with some of his religious statements, but surely this one must count as one of the 'best' so far.

We know god is vindictive and will visit the sins of the fathers upon the children.

But I never knew it was so bad, he will visit the sins of the humans on the chickens. :eek: (The church is really taking this whole guilt-trip thing to far...)

[Neo]

An 8 legged chicken! (supper at your place?)


You'll first have to catch it!

[Captain Slog]

There is so much overwhelming evidence, no wonder it's called "BLIND FAITH" !!

It is called "BLIND FAITH" because their eyes are firmly shut to reality and they can't see s hit.

[Highflyer_GP]

We know dodo can be completely bonkers with some of his religious statements, but surely this one must count as one of the 'best' so far.

We know god is vindictive and will visit the sins of the fathers upon the children.

But I never knew it was so bad, he will visit the sins of the humans on the chickens. :eek: (The church is really taking this whole guilt-trip thing to far...)
lol yeah what better way to punish your pet chicken/duck/pig than to impose your sin on their next generation :D

[NoRulez]

You'll first have to catch it!

I believe the SA breed is not quite as fast as the Ethiopian ones... :)

[Mr TB]

lol yeah what better way to punish your pet chicken/duck/pig than to impose your sin on their next generation :D
Your thought pattern is so wrong ... it is the cause and effect principle...
It has nothing to do with actual punishment...

Your disobedience caused the curse on earth and the effect thereof is misformed creatures etc.

It is not punishment , it your disobedience leading to failure in nature...

[Mr TB]

original sin caused death to be established,and this leaded to more complicated things like what you said.

If original sin that caused death to be established was not committed, none of what followed would have happened... yes or no?

[noxibox]

If the earth were cursed, then God cursed it and created it intending to curse it. We know this because God knows everything so no event can come as a surprise and every tiny thing that has ever occurred and will ever occur was known to God before construction of the universe even began.

[Mr TB]

If the earth were cursed, then God cursed it and created it intending to curse it. We know this because God knows everything so no event can come as a surprise and every tiny thing that has ever occurred and will ever occur was known to God before construction of the universe even began.

If you wish to argue that way then you will have to accept what is happening has already happened. That is why nothing can come as a surprise to God, your refusal to choose him is not a surprise...

You choose not to do a thing, you would have made that ckoice in any case.
The movie is nearing its end you can still choose, and that will be the choice in the movie that has played itself out already...

:D ....yeah, you need to be creative to understand...:D

[TMoose]

If you wish to argue that way then you will have to accept what is happening has already happened. That is why nothing can come as a surprise to God, your refusal to choose him is not a surprise...

You choose not to do a thing, you would have made that ckoice in any case.
The movie is nearing its end you can still choose, and that will be the choice in the movie that has played itself out already...

:D ....yeah, you need to be creative to understand...:DAs soon as you describe a god as being all knowing and all powerful and you assume that said god had created the universe then you idirectly accept that free will does not exist, that some people were created by god specifically to go to hell and that all suffering is caused by god.

Why, because if I know everything in advance then while creating something I also know all future outcomes based on what I'm doing. If I put this atom here then little Billy will be a saint in 100 years, if I put it there then little Billy will turn out a serial killer and burn in hell. I already know what will happen to little Billy in advance, so if he goes to hell it's because I chose to send him there.

That means your god loves torturing people and is therefore unworthy of praise.

[noxibox]

I don't think a god knowing everything removes our free will. It does mean that the god knows the choices we will make. From the god's perspective our lives are pre-ordained. It is correct then that each soul is created knowing which will go to heaven and which to hell.

[Mr TB]

I don't think a god knowing everything removes our free will. It does mean that the god knows the choices we will make. From the god's perspective our lives are pre-ordained. It is correct then that each soul is created knowing which will go to heaven and which to hell.

I sat with the same thought for a long time... it bugged... and realised it is my choice...

We are chosen... but when... at the very beginning of universe... every single soul walking earth are still chosen for heaven... but on judgement day what was your choice?

I am not trying to be clever but you are chosen and now you are left with a choice...

[Mr TB]

"our lives are pre-ordained"

God's pre-ordained choice for you and for me is eternal life with him, but will we choose him?

[pookfuzz]

"our lives are pre-ordained"

God's pre-ordained choice for you and for me is eternal life with him, but will we choose him?

If this were even remotely true, we would be born directly into heaven.

[Mr TB]

If this were even remotely true, we would be born directly into heaven.

As far as I know God don't favor anyone, so when Jesus says to his disciples you are chosen?... Paul also says we are chosen?...

Only an unfair God will choose certain people... and I realised we are all chosen. This is your chance to choose...

One third of the angels chose satan is that correct?

[The_Librarian]

As far as I know God don't favor anyone, so when Jesus says to his disciples you are chosen?... Paul also says we are chosen?...

Only an unfair God will choose certain people... and I realised we are all chosen. This is your chance to choose...

One third of the angels chose satan is that correct?

To be more precise, Satan persuaded one third of the angels to take his side. What lies or half-truths he told them we won't know until the Day of Judgment.

Which goes to prove that Satan is not to be laughed at, he is very dangerous, and can mislead everybody.

So it all comes down to whom you will chose to worship - Jesus or Satan.

[Mr TB]

To be more precise, Satan persuaded one third of the angels to take his side. What lies or half-truths he told them we won't know until the Day of Judgment.

Which goes to prove that Satan is not to be laughed at, he is very dangerous, and can mislead everybody.

So it all comes down to whom you will chose to worship - Jesus or Satan.

Mankind/Christians tend to forget that..., I agree with you satan is the enemy and only through christ we can overcome him...

[pookfuzz]

Mankind/Christians tend to forget that..., I agree with you satan is the enemy and only through christ we can overcome him...

Ever considered that through lies and half-truths he has also got 1/3 of the world population to follow him? Take a moment to look which religion makes up 1/3 of the world population.

Interesting coincidence.

[PostmanPot]

To be more precise, Satan persuaded one third of the angels to take his side. What lies or half-truths he told them we won't know until the Day of Judgment.

Which goes to prove that Satan is not to be laughed at, he is very dangerous, and can mislead everybody.

So it all comes down to whom you will chose to worship - Jesus or Satan.

So who do the Muslims and the Jews worship?

[Mr TB]

Ever considered that through lies and half-truths he has also got 1/3 of the world population to follow him? Take a moment to look which religion makes up 1/3 of the world population.

Interesting coincidence.

You nearly frightened me, but of course the other part of the is split into divisions also, not one third then as suggested.

Your 1/3:2/3 with the angels? You suggest say: 1/3:1/6:1/2, try again...

[Mr TB]

IN RESPONSE TO POOKFUZZ:

The followers of (1/6) may have a problem...

(1/6) is (1/3) of a (1/2), so they may be going to the stake already...

[pookfuzz]

IN RESPONSE TO POOKFUZZ:

The followers of (1/6) may have a problem...

(1/6) is (1/3) of a (1/2), so they may be going to the stake already...

Nope.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

33% exactly apparently. ;)

[Mr TB]

Nope.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

33% exactly apparently. ;)

Missed the point , but maybe you are right because that replaces the lost angels...

67% of mankind fills the remainder of hell...

[TMoose]

stop breeding.

[The_Librarian]

So who do the Muslims and the Jews worship?

What have they to do with my statement? :confused: I fail to see why you're chucking in this question.

[PostmanPot]

What have they to do with my statement? :confused: I fail to see why you're chucking in this question.

Well they don't "worship" Jesus, so...?

[The_Librarian]

Missed the point , but maybe you are right because that replaces the lost angels...

67% of mankind fills the remainder of hell...

There won't be a hell... only a second death.

First death is when you die here on Earth, to be resurrected for the judgment.

Second death is when you're judged, from the second death there is no resurrection.

[stix]

// what does he charge for a website ? :D

[ghoti]

There won't be a hell... only a second death.

First death is when you die here on Earth, to be resurrected for the judgment.

Second death is when you're judged, from the second death there is no resurrection.

Okay, now I am a little confused.

Christians have a hell right? Fire and brimstone and all that stuff?

Christians also have a Satan? An evil 'entity' that God allows for some reason.

Jews do not have a hell or a satan, the believe that evil is not an actual force but rather simply the absence of God.

Catholics have a purgatory. Kinda like a dunce corner.

How were you able to come to the conclusion about the second death? When you say no resurrection to you mean complete annihilation of the soul and your existence or... "down you go to hell with the rest of them mister"?

[ant5]

Okay, now I am a little confused.


Don't even try to understand.............
It takes FAITH, you see..the blinder, the better.

[ghoti]

Don't even try to understand.............
It takes FAITH, you see..the blinder, the better.

I like to understand, so I understand the point of view and the justifications for it.

[ant5]

I like to understand, so I understand the point of view and the justifications for it.

Enjoy the journey...see you back here when you're done;)

[The_Librarian]

Okay, now I am a little confused.

Christians have a hell right? Fire and brimstone and all that stuff?

Christians also have a Satan? An evil 'entity' that God allows for some reason.

Jews do not have a hell or a satan, the believe that evil is not an actual force but rather simply the absence of God.

Catholics have a purgatory. Kinda like a dunce corner.

How were you able to come to the conclusion about the second death? When you say no resurrection to you mean complete annihilation of the soul and your existence or... "down you go to hell with the rest of them mister"?

@ W1z :

It's Satan's way to obfuscate truth.

Complete annihilation of the soul, your thoughts and your character.

I would like to throw the gauntlet down to the other religious people and dare them to find where the Bible makes mention of a hell, and to publish it here.

No external references or works are allowed. Only the Bible.


For the last time - there is NO hell.

[nthdimension]

Okay, now I am a little confused.

Christians have a hell right? Fire and brimstone and all that stuff?
Although we were all taught that there was a hell that involved eternal damnation and torture it does appear to have been a misinterpretation of what is written in the Bible.


How were you able to come to the conclusion about the second death? When you say no resurrection to you mean complete annihilation of the soul and your existence
It is essentially what Jesus taught. Those who do not follow Jesus will be destroyed.


Jews do not have a hell or a satan, the believe that evil is not an actual force but rather simply the absence of God.

Catholics have a purgatory. Kinda like a dunce corner.
Judaism does have hell, but not as a place of permanent residence. The Catholic purgatory is reminiscent of what is found in Judaism. In Judaism everyone eventually gets to heaven, but some have to be sent to a place of purification to clean their soul before they can enter heaven. Those places are the levels of hell. That is how it was explained to me by a Rabbi.

[ghoti]

Although we were all taught that there was a hell that involved eternal damnation and torture it does appear to have been a misinterpretation of what is written in the Bible.

Okay, got it


Judaism does have hell, but not as a place of permanent residence. The Catholic purgatory is reminiscent of what is found in Judaism. In Judaism everyone eventually gets to heaven, but some have to be sent to a place of purification to clean their soul before they can enter heaven. Those places are the levels of hell. That is how it was explained to me by a Rabbi.

What is the jewish version of hell like? Or is hell just a word given to different levels of their purgatory?

[The_Librarian]

w1z - the Catholic church started the idea of hell in order to extort money from ignorant people as these people was led to believe that they can "purchase" a soul's freedom from hell.

The Bible teaches otherwise.

Besides, with only the priests able to read from a Latin Bible and the rest of the populace ignorant of Latin, they had free rein to "interpret" the Bible as they wanted to...

Martin Luther was against this kind of practice.

[nthdimension]

What is the jewish version of hell like? Or is hell just a word given to different levels of their purgatory?
It was explained to me that we do not know what hell is like because it will be something different for each person.

I also forgot to mention that some Jews do not believe in hells at all, but instead believe you are reincarnated over and over until you become pure. I was told that this belief is fairly uncommon, but a legitimate Jewish belief.

[Nick333]

w1z - the Catholic church started the idea of hell in order to extort money from ignorant people as these people was led to believe that they can "purchase" a soul's freedom from hell.

The Bible teaches otherwise.

Besides, with only the priests able to read from a Latin Bible and the rest of the populace ignorant of Latin, they had free rein to "interpret" the Bible as they wanted to...

Martin Luther was against this kind of practice.

Martin Luther fcking hated Jews with a passion.

I'm just saying.

Edit: And its not as if he did away with the Catholic version of hell.

But good for you for rejecting the idea.

[Mr TB]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by w1z4rd
How were you able to come to the conclusion about the second death? When you say no resurrection to you mean complete annihilation of the soul and your existence

It is essentially what Jesus taught. Those who do not follow Jesus will be destroyed."

This is the part of the argument I find so interesting... the door to heaven is open all you have to do is choose Jesus...

If you don't you spend eternity with satan... that's the deal...

But they don't want to take responsibility. Its like raping a baby and then refusing to accept the penalty for it. ... Psychopatic is it not?

[Tux]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by w1z4rd
How were you able to come to the conclusion about the second death? When you say no resurrection to you mean complete annihilation of the soul and your existence

It is essentially what Jesus taught. Those who do not follow Jesus will be destroyed."

This is the part of the argument I find so interesting... the door to heaven is open all you have to do is choose Jesus...

If you don't you spend eternity with satan... that's the deal...

But they don't want to take responsibility. Its like raping a baby and then refusing to accept the penalty for it. ... Psychopatic is it not?

I find it kinda worrying that you'd use that analogy. And yes, it is kinda psycopathic. Actually it's kinda sick, but I guess you have your reasons for thinking along that lines

I do think however that millions of jews and muslims would disagree with you on the point about jesus being the only way to get into heaven

[Mr TB]

I find it kinda worrying that you'd use that analogy. And yes, it is kinda psycopathic. Actually it's kinda sick, but I guess you have your reasons for thinking along that lines

I do think however that millions of jews and muslims would disagree with you on the point about jesus being the only way to get into heaven

He is the appointed King

It make real sense to me..., If you do not wish to choose him you will be rebellious in heaven also.
There is not any reason to allow you into heaven... is there?
You have already notified him you do not accept his rule...so...

[The_Librarian]

"Do not judge others lest you yourself be judged"...

I won't judge others based on what they think, say or do... but it is difficult.

[ToxicBunny]

See Mr TB, take T_L's example, debating things like this with him is interesting and informative because he believes, but also understands his beliefs...

[ghoti]

w1z - the Catholic church started the idea of hell in order to extort money from ignorant people as these people was led to believe that they can "purchase" a soul's freedom from hell.

Believable.


Besides, with only the priests able to read from a Latin Bible and the rest of the populace ignorant of Latin, they had free rein to "interpret" the Bible as they wanted to...

Martin Luther was against this kind of practice.

Yup.. back in the day. Though I think it was an King James who changed the rules?

[Tux]

He is the appointed King

It make real sense to me..., If you do not wish to choose him you will be rebellious in heaven also.
There is not any reason to allow you into heaven... is there?
You have already notified him you do not accept his rule...so...

Actually I was reffering to your baby rape analogy.

But all the same, I'll rather go straight to the top and squire things away with your jesus' boss, because quite frankly I think the muslims are closer to the truth on this one than you and the rest of the fanclub.
What if jesus of nazareth was just another prophet, like mohammed, that got really good PR? Then you're fscked for all eternity..........

[Pr⊕phet]

Judaism has magick ;)

[Tux]

Judaism has magick ;)

And Golems! Now we just need a druid and an elf and we can start our own kosher game of Diablo

[Mr TB]

See Mr TB, take T_L's example, debating things like this with him is interesting and informative because he believes, but also understands his beliefs...

Yes and maybe you should take another example.... you want to debate everone else's believes but own...

You are also not debating anything when it comes to my side. You are trying to force your opinion onto me.

I have given you explanations concerning free will, homosexuality, the plagues, sodom and gomorra, Paul and Jesus, what else?

Oh yes evolution:

Life must have existed because look at life around us? the argument in a post!

Ok! God exist, proof please, creation is proof! not accepted...

Defenite double standard in the argument if you look at the post to support life...

You insist I am a thumbsucker... you are not debating... you are skeptic chauvinists...

[Pr⊕phet]

And Golems! Now we just need a druid and an elf and we can start our own kosher game of Diablo

...

Kabbalah (Hebrew: קַבָּלָה, Tiberian: qabːɔˈlɔh, Qabbālāh, Israeli: Kabala) literally means "receiving", and is sometimes transliterated as Cabala, Kabbala, Qabalah, or other permutations. It is a core and identifying spiritual teaching of Hassidic Judaism. According to its adherents, intimate understanding and mastery of the Kabbalah brings man spiritually closer to God and as a result man can be empowered with higher insight into the inner-workings of God’s creation effectively enabling prophecy and even control over nature. According to Kabbalistic tradition, Kabbalistic knowledge was known to and transmitted orally by the Jewish patriarchs, prophets, and sages (Avot in Hebrew), eventually to be “interwoven” into Jewish religious writings and culture. According to this tradition, Kabbalah was originally (in around the 10th century BCE) an open knowledge practiced by over a million people in ancient Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah

[Tux]

Lighten up dude

[ToxicBunny]

I am perfectly willing to debate my "beliefs" Mr TB, once you learn how to converse in the English language.

Your explanations regarding all of those things are flimsy at the very best, and are unacceptable to me.

No double standards, we know life exists (obviously), we are working on how it started. You refuse to even look into anything and blindly assume a book written 1500 years ago is true.

[Tux]

The only "beliefs" that mr Dodo has is that he is better than all of you and that you're going to hell. My guess is that he does it to hide an inferiority complex a mile wide.

[ToxicBunny]

Ahhh but he is just beating his chest for nothing... I have signed the contract with the Devil AGES ago.....

He tells me he needs the break and I'm gladly going to step in to his shoes and run the place for a few aeons.... :D

[Tux]

He tells me he needs the break and I'm gladly going to step in to his shoes and run the place for a few aeons.... :D

:eek: We're soooo fscked! :eek:

[Mr TB]

"No double standards, we know life exists (obviously), we are working on how it started. You refuse to even look into anything and blindly assume a book written 1500 years ago is true."

Nope, you believe you are right and you want to forbid me to tell others what I believe...

So I will show you blindly assume life started out of nothing, you can't prove it.
On that wild bluff or assumption you build a theory called Evolution.

I believe God exist. His existence proved by his creation. An owner's manual he left me, the Bible...

[Mr TB]

The only "beliefs" that mr Dodo has is that he is better than all of you and that you're going to hell. My guess is that he does it to hide an inferiority complex a mile wide.

Someone with an inferiority complex makes a coment like this.
Not recognising GOD is a sign of inferiority...(to proud to recognise you need a savior) Pride=inferiority.

I do not compare myself with the next person....
If you go to hell it is by your own choice...

[Tux]

An owner's manual he left me, the Bible...

What a k@k manual. less than 1% dealing with the end product (the earth, said to be created by one yahweh) No cleaning instructions. No parts lists. No Maintenance instructions. No warranty disclaimers and no ingredients list. I will be laying a complaint against you with the ASA, for false advertising, dodo :)

[TMoose]

On that wild bluff or assumption you build a theory called Evolution.Human beings use fast forwarded evolution to our advantage every day by breeding new dogs, faster horses, cows that deliver incredible amounts of milk and flies that live 3 times longer than they should.

Evolution hasn't really been a theory for some time now. It's like the theory of gravity. Evolution is blatantly obvious in every aspect of what humans do and how life developed on the planet. If living things don't change why are some humans born without an appendix for example? Why do we have tail bones? Why oh why and then some.

[Tux]

Not recognising GOD is a sign of inferiority...(to proud to recognise you need a savior) Pride=inferiority.



Please explain to me how you came to that conclusion?

[Mr TB]

What a k@k manual. less than 1% dealing with the end product (the earth, said to be created by one yahweh) No cleaning instructions. No parts lists. No Maintenance instructions. No warranty disclaimers and no ingredients list. I will be laying a complaint against you with the ASA, for false advertising, dodo :)

You obviously did not read the manual, did you?

Gee!... making such statements and you do not know what is written in the manual.

I will give you credit and say you actually read it properly if you answer the following question correctly...

How many promises does Yahweh make to us in the owner's manual?

Ummm...if you can't you should actually withdrew your insulting statement... should you not?

[Tux]

You obviously did not read the manual, did you?

Gee!... making such statements and you do not know what is written in the manual.

I will give you credit and say you actually read it properly if you answer the following question correctly...

How many promises does Yahweh make to us in the owner's manual?

Not a single one. He did not write the book, we only have the word of them that wrote it.

Note to self: Try to remember when you're logged in as Gru and when you're logged in as DEATH or SevenToes.

[Mr TB]

Not a single one. He did not write the book, we only have the word of them that wrote it.

Note to self: Try to remember when you're logged in as Gru and when you're logged in as DEATH or SevenToes.

I do not do this as a rule , want ek is geen dweper nie, but I can only pray for you...

[Mr TB]

Human beings use fast forwarded evolution to our advantage every day by breeding new dogs, faster horses, cows that deliver incredible amounts of milk and flies that live 3 times longer than they should.

Evolution hasn't really been a theory for some time now. It's like the theory of gravity. Evolution is blatantly obvious in every aspect of what humans do and how life developed on the planet. If living things don't change why are some humans born without an appendix for example? Why do we have tail bones? Why oh why and then some.

Proof to me how life started out of nothing.... then I will consider your theory... before that it stays a fable in my view...

You can't proof the very beginnings of life , you have to believe it just happened by co-incidence...

Well...I am not on earth by co-incidence...

[Mr TB]

"Originally Posted by TMoose
Human beings use fast forwarded evolution to our advantage every day by breeding new dogs, faster horses, cows that deliver incredible amounts of milk and flies that live 3 times longer than they should."

If the air was not as polluted all of us would longer in any case...please...
I not that clever but certainly not stupid ok?

[Highflyer_GP]

Proof to me how life started out of nothing.... then I will consider your theory... before that it stays a fable in my view...

Your view isn't important. You stay as you are - because the day that you change your view towards evolution is the day I realise that we're evolving backwards.

[noxibox]

The manual appears to have been translated by someone who speaks neither the source nor the destination language. Or maybe they put the wrong manual in the box.

[Mr TB]

The manual appears to have been translated by someone who speaks neither the source nor the destination language. Or maybe they put the wrong manual in the box.

Let me comment this way, if you do not recognise Christ as the only way to heaven, you don't recognise god.

Once you are not willing to recognise god, you are doing the exact same than satan...

So satan lost his place in heaven because of his pride, no one that are willing to rebel against god will be allowed into heaven again...

[Tux]

Let me comment this way, if you do not recognise Christ as the only way to heaven, you don't recognise god.

Once you are not willing to recognise god, you are doing the exact same than satan...

So satan lost his place in heaven because of his pride, no one that are willing to rebel against god will be allowed into heaven again...

So there's Mister Abdullah Muslim and Mr Moshe da Jew. Both of them Pray to the same god as you. Both of them recoqnizes your jesus but relegates him to the status of prophet only. And keep in mind that Moshe's religion predates yours by a few thousand years. It's the foundation for yours actually. So you're telling me they're going to hell?

[PostmanPot]

Mr TB, is 'Heaven' for Christians only? Or are there Jews and Muslims there too, frolicking around in peace?

[Pr⊕phet]

point or venture - totally off topic :P

how many times did satan tempt someone in the whole of the bible [playing with the freewill] ?

eve
job (more plagues so can't really count this one)
jesus

a whole 2 temptations ?!

for an uber enemy seems not much like that does it...
----

[Mr TB]

Mr TB, is 'Heaven' for Christians only? Or are there Jews and Muslims there too, frolicking around in peace?

"Both of them recoqnizes your jesus but relegates him to the status of prophet only."

Postmanpot I must correct your misconception, "they recognise the son of god, who is god and relegates him to the status of a prophet"

Are they praying to the same god than me? No!, I have just showed you they dishonored god and relegated him to the position of prophet!

Heaven is for those who repent of their sins, give their lives as a sacrifice to Jesus Christ their savior...

[PostmanPot]

IOW "No, there aren't any Jews or Muslims in Heaven".

Sad!

[Tux]

"Both of them recoqnizes your jesus but relegates him to the status of prophet only."

Postmanpot I must correct your misconception, "they recognise the son of god, who is god and relegates him to the status of a prophet"

Are they praying to the same god than me? No!, I have just showed you they dishonored god and relegated him to the position of prophet!

Heaven is for those who repent of their sins, give their lives as a sacrifice to Jesus Christ their savior...

You're so full of it you know? First off.. I said that. Secondly, have you been to heaven? Have you seen with your own eyes that there are only christians in heaven? And what gives you the right to say that they are wrong you judgemental prick?

[Mr TB]

You're so full of it you know? First off.. I said that. Secondly, have you been to heaven? Have you seen with your own eyes that there are only christians in heaven? And what gives you the right to say that they are wrong you judgemental prick?

No one comes to the Father but through Christ Jesus... I am not playing judge, I am saying the only way to heaven is through Christ Jesus, there is not another way...

[Tux]

No one comes to the Father but through Christ Jesus... I am not playing judge, I am saying the only way to heaven is through Christ Jesus, there is not another way...

You know.. If heaven's filled with people like you then i'd rather go to hell.

You are judging. Like all your fanatic brethren.
Please show me where god himself says that? Not somebody who heard a guy who may or may not have been his son. I want to see god himself say that

[Mr TB]

IOW "No, there aren't any Jews or Muslims in Heaven".

Sad!

Everyone in afterlife recognise Christ Jesus as Lord. The portion of mankind that also recognised him as savior while living their lives on earth , they will be with him in heaven in afterlife...

[Mr TB]

You know.. If heaven's filled with people like you then i'd rather go to hell.

You are judging. Like all your fanatic brethren.
Please show me where god himself says that? Not somebody who heard a guy who may or may not have been his son. I want to see god himself say that

If you wish to run on this topic of judging... What you done...judge...:D
I am not a fanatic, ...maybe we should look at the definition of the word again...blowing yourself to pieces in a shop... that is fanatic...

[Tux]

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
fa·nat·ic /fəˈnætɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fuh-nat-ik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.
–adjective 2. fanatical.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1515–25; < L fānāticus pertaining to a temple, inspired by orgiastic rites, frantic, equiv. to fān(um) temple + -āticus, equiv. to -āt(us) -ate1 + -icus -ic]


—Synonyms 1. enthusiast, zealot, bigot, hothead, militant. Fanatic, zealot, militant, devotee refer to persons showing more than ordinary support for, adherence to, or interest in a cause, point of view, or activity. Fanatic and zealot both suggest excessive or overweening devotion to a cause or belief. Fanatic further implies unbalanced or obsessive behavior: a wild-eyed fanatic. Zealot, only slightly less unfavorable in implication than fanatic, implies single-minded partisanship: a tireless zealot for tax reform. Militant stresses vigorous, aggressive support for or opposition to a plan or ideal and suggests a combative stance. Devotee is a milder term than any of the foregoing, suggesting enthusiasm but not to the exclusion of other interests or possible points of view: a jazz devotee.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, &#169; Random House, Inc. 2006.

[tertius]

Human beings use fast forwarded evolution to our advantage every day by breeding new dogs, faster horses, cows that deliver incredible amounts of milk and flies that live 3 times longer than they should.

Evolution hasn't really been a theory for some time now. It's like the theory of gravity. Evolution is blatantly obvious in every aspect of what humans do and how life developed on the planet. If living things don't change why are some humans born without an appendix for example? Why do we have tail bones? Why oh why and then some.

I don't really want to get involved in this discussion as it's pretty much a very big mess.

But TMoose, you are wrong here. Evolution is a chance happening. And Natural selection or in this case Intelligent selection is not evolution. It's a specification of the gene pool. No new genetic information has been added. No evolution has taken place. Sorry to disappoint you there.

And you need to look up your definition of theory. Evolution is still a theory, but a theory is more than just a wack job of beliefs.

[noxibox]

Evolution is a chance happening. And Natural selection or in this case Intelligent selection is not evolution.
Genetic mutations are chance occurrences. Their survival depends on the constraints of the environment. That's why evolution is not purely random.


And you need to look up your definition of theory. Evolution is still a theory, but a theory is more than just a wack job of beliefs.
It is not just a theory because the word theory as used in science is not the same as theory used outside of science.

[fivelza]

You know.. If heaven's filled with people like you then i'd rather go to hell.

You are judging. Like all your fanatic brethren.
Please show me where god himself says that? Not somebody who heard a guy who may or may not have been his son. I want to see god himself say that

Hi Gru, I don't quite agree that Mr TB is judging, the Bible is rather clear on this. What we do not know is exactly what will happen to many who do not know about Jesus, how will this be dealt with, for example. Ultimately I believe that our God is a merciful God and as such we mere mortals are in no position to speak from a position of authority on exactly how it will all work out in the end.

[FlyingPika]

You know, it has always puzzled me from an 'if god exists' perspective as to why humans would sometimes be born with tails, or extra nipples or something similar and equally bizarre.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/9662/humantail8fj6.th.jpg

From wiki:


A sound case is that of a man named Chandre Oram who was born in India and has been famous because of his 13-inch tail. Nonetheless, it is believed it is not a true tail but a case of spina bifida.



Spina bifida (Latin: "split spine") is a developmental birth defect involving the neural tube: incomplete closure of the embryonic neural tube results in an incompletely formed spinal cord. In addition, the bones of the spine (vertebrae) overlying the open portion of the spinal cord do not fully form and remain unfused and open. This allows the abnormal portion of the spinal cord to protrude through the opening in the bones. There may or may not be a fluid filled sac surrounding the open spinal cord.




However...

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/113/fourlegduckpa450x269hc1.th.jpg

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/9265/sixlegpiguppa450x314uj5.th.jpg

Could you find smaller unclear pics to post than the thumbnails?



Why? I can only seemingly come up with 2 explanations from an 'if god exists' perspective:

A) god made a mess up somewhere along the lines or

B) god purposely wanted the occasional pig or duck or whatever to grow extra limbs, extra heads, extra sacks.. whatever.


C) Adam and Eve sinned and brought a curse onto creation that used to be perfect. But God has promised to restore creation and wipe away every tear soon.

[Tux]

My point is this: Why go through an intermediary when you can go straight to the source?
All 3 religions have 1 thing in common, they pray to the god of abraham. Yahweh. So what gives me or any of you the right to say that the jews or muslims are going to hell? I'd rather leave that one for god to decide

[fivelza]

My point is this: Why go through an intermediary when you can go straight to the source?
All 3 religions have 1 thing in common, they pray to the god of abraham. Yahweh. So what gives me or any of you the right to say that the jews or muslims are going to hell? I'd rather leave that one for god to decide

Agreed, we cannot decide.

[Tux]

Agreed, we cannot decide.

Not according to Mr TB or IJ.

[Mr TB]

Not according to Mr TB or IJ.
RECONCILIATION

[Tux]

RECONCILIATION

Hush Junior, let the adults get a word in

[Mr TB]

My point is this: Why go through an intermediary when you can go straight to the source?
All 3 religions have 1 thing in common, they pray to the god of abraham. Yahweh. So what gives me or any of you the right to say that the jews or muslims are going to hell? I'd rather leave that one for god to decide

To stand in front of YAHWEH, you must be cleansed of your sins...
The only one that can cleanse you to go to the source Christ Jesus...

[FlyingPika]

Genetic mutations are chance occurrences. Their survival depends on the constraints of the environment. That's why evolution is not purely random.
But each time a creature changed it was a random mutation according to evolution. If it was not random then that would imply intelligence was involved.

The evolution path of a species is therefore random, of the randomly occurring species the ones that survive are chosen according to natural selection.


It is not just a theory because the word theory as used in science is not the same as theory used outside of science.
Changing the definition to suit your needs doesn’t justify the validity of the concept any more. Instead of trying to brain wash us with evolution theories, and repetitively telling us how scientific it is, i wish they would show us evidence and the actual findings and how they reached their conclusions. 99% of it is just their conclusions, which have thrown out/ignored any evidence that disagrees with their theory.

Its amazing how by their scientific means they can determine what an ape man looks like from a pigs tooth. Or how many scientists did their PHD's on a fake ape man skull that was actually fabricated by an evolutionist (was part human part monkey epoxied together and scuffed up).

Others include cutting and re-gluing the hip joints of monkey findings to make it appear how it "originally was"? And that latest article in the YOU, where they say it was exactly like an ape but walked up right. They know this because they uncovered everything except the legs… go figure.

Can you tell me what you have read (or give me some links) that make you have firm believe that evolution is true? I have read what is on wiki already, which has no evidence of macro evolution.

Personally i dont have enough faith to believe life came from nothing (its been proven life could not have spontaneously started) and that we as human are a random occurrence.

By the way how did male and females both randomly occur but it just so happens a male is perfectly designed to impregnate the women?

[Mr TB]

YAHWEH is holy, for you to stand in front of YAHWEH, you need to be holy, we are unholy due to our sins, the intermediary Christ Jesus lived a sinless life and was not born into sin... He is holy... He as intermemediary removes your unholiness so that you can stand in front of YAHWEH.

The intermediary is not relegated to the status of a prophet...
Oh yes may I say this is my opinion...

[ToxicBunny]

Oh thats just so cool.. you can do whatever you want in life, and Jesus will just remove all your sin. Sounds like a MASSIVE cop out to me.

[Mr TB]

Hush Junior, let the adults get a word in

Oh my... accusing others of being full of themselves....:)

[Claymore]

But each time a creature changed it was a random mutation according to evolution. If it was not random then that would imply intelligence was involved.

The initial mutation may be random, but the selection certainly is not; it's governed by survival and the ability to pass genes along.

[Mr TB]

Oh thats just so cool.. you can do whatever you want in life, and Jesus will just remove all your sin. Sounds like a MASSIVE cop out to me.

Evolution is a MASSIVE cop out to release yourself from your responsibility towards god...

It allows you to follow the moral codes you believe is just fine...

You are not required to live a HOLY LIFE "because I am holy", you don't have to follow divine moral codes, that is a real cop is it not...

Nope Toxibunny you should re consider the real cop out is evolution not christianity...

[Tux]

Oh my... accusing others of being full of themselves....:)

I did not say you're full of yourselves, but you are full of something else which i wont mention in polite conversation

[Tux]

and with "yourselves" I mean each and every one of your personalities

[ToxicBunny]

Umm, how exactly does evolution alter my morals in ANY way whatsoever?

You Mr TB are smoking something that is beyond description. I have nobody to answer for except myself, nobody to clear me of any sins I do against mankind, ultimately I am responsible for what I do... Not some airy fairy entity....

[fivelza]

Evolution is a MASSIVE cop out to release yourself from your responsibility towards god...

It allows you to follow the moral codes you believe is just fine...

You are not required to live a HOLY LIFE "because I am holy", you don't have to follow divine moral codes, that is a real cop is it not...

Nope Toxibunny you should re consider the real cop out is evolution not christianity...

Mr TB, I think Toxicbunny and others have more than just evolution as an issue with Christianity....

[ToxicBunny]

fivelza : Thank you. You are entirely correct on that point.

As far as i'm concerned evolution and Christianity are not mutually exclusive in any way whatsoever. Christianity for me has WAY too many problems to be a viable option, actually ALL religions have way too many problems, but that is just my opinion.

[Tux]

Regarding christianity, I follow the gandhi school of thought. I don't have a problem with christ or christianity, it's most of it's followers that I have a problem with

[ToxicBunny]

Well now, this is interesting... I have some information regarding Mr TB's reality... and it does put a very interesting spin on things... but to protect his fragile lil mind I shall not repeat it. Just know Mr TB, the my opinion of you has fallen even further, oh and thank you, cos I haven't laughed as much as this in a VERY long time.....

[phenom]

why is god so unfair?

[noxibox]

Theory: unlike in normally daily speech terms used in science and engineering need very clear, specific meanings. The word theory has a very specific meaning within the realm of science. Anyone who states the scientific theory of X is just a theory is merely demonstrating their own ignorance of science.

On the other side the proponents of design have yet to come up with any evidence of design. They cannot, for example, given two DNA strands, one from a genuine living creature, another random junk, point to characteristics within one DNA strand that show it was designed. One of their favourites, the alleged impossibility of irreducible complexity evolving, was, it turns out, shot down years ago. There is often idiotic misrepresentation, like stating that scientists claim complex life appeared spontaneously, essentially in its current form, i.e. males, females, methods of reproduction, etc. They will often spend time shooting down ideas that scientists discarded decades ago. They're also apparently completely incapable of differentiating abiogenesis from evolution.

[Mr TB]

FIVELZA, and others…

Is the issue me?... Playing the...correction........., the real issue is the UNFAIR GOD.
Nothing you tell us will convince us GOD IS FAIR.

When we employ new employees they are immediately condemned via a disciplinary code.
So employers are unfair…
But if the employee was not warned that certain things are wrong and he does it… he goes free…
The condemning disciplinary code also states levels of punishment…

So it is FAIR that the employer warns the employee in the disciplinary code…
It is FAIR that the employee receives such disciplinary code, the condemning disciplinary code..
It is FAIR that the employee understand the different levels of punishment in the code.
It is FAIR that the employee is punished when infringing the disciplinary code.

GOD is FAIR. It is FAIR that those of us who discard GOD’s remedy for our sins are punished, punishment is only FAIR.

[Highflyer_GP]

ffs how is this twit not banned yet?

[fivelza]

FIVELZA, and others…

Is the issue me?... Playing the...correction........., the real issue is the UNFAIR GOD.
Nothing you tell us will convince us GOD IS FAIR.



Do you ever bother to read who posted 'is God fair?'.....the issue is you..you seldom, if ever make sense.....fairness is a relative term in any event!

[Nick333]

ffs how is this twit not banned yet?

What self respecting mod would waste their time reading his ****. They're probably thanking their stars he hasn't taken an interest in telecoms liberalization.

[Pr⊕phet]

FIVELZA, and others…

Is the issue me?... Playing the...correction........., the real issue is the UNFAIR GOD.
Nothing you tell us will convince us GOD IS FAIR.

When we employ new employees they are immediately condemned via a disciplinary code.
So employers are unfair…
But if the employee was not warned that certain things are wrong and he does it… he goes free…
The condemning disciplinary code also states levels of punishment…

So it is FAIR that the employer warns the employee in the disciplinary code…
It is FAIR that the employee receives such disciplinary code, the condemning disciplinary code..
It is FAIR that the employee understand the different levels of punishment in the code.
It is FAIR that the employee is punished when infringing the disciplinary code.

GOD is FAIR. It is FAIR that those of us who discard GOD’s remedy for our sins are punished, punishment is only FAIR.

lol - CAPITALS IS COOL, repeating repeat is cool too....

[Tux]

If you believe in something you made up, you're crazy. If you believe in something someone else made up, your religious. And that's protected by law. - J. Woods.

[Mr TB]

Do you ever bother to read who posted 'is God fair?'.....the issue is you..you seldom, if ever make sense.....fairness is a relative term in any event!

Really?... I don't compromise anymore... over that stage...

I realised I'm a sinner and that christ jesus died and rose again to be savior for this sinner, since I realised I can't save myself only by faith in christ I am saved. Since then I don't compromise anymore... I love mankind but not sin...
Oh yes and I am not holier than thou, I may even sin more than you(not that I play with sin because then where is my faith in christ-I promised to be obedient...) but I'm forgiven. I am not a sinner now, I am a child of god that commit sin...

If you believe god to be unfair well...

You actually answered the question, fair is relative, so not one of us has the right to say god is unfair... He is all-knowing, we are not...

PS:, Please don't think I implied you are not forgiven...

[TMoose]

I realised I'm a sinner and that christ jesus died and rose again to be savior for this sinner, since I realised I can't save myself only by faith in christ I am saved. I just think you realised one day that you would some day die. Nobody want's to die, so you found a religion that claims that you will live forever in a happy place playing golf or doing whatever it is you like to do. No work, melted ice creams or cold coffee for you, no sir.

Just remember that the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and every other religion thinks they are just as right as you are... so your god isn't a very good communicator. In fact they think that you’re the one going to hell seeing as you’re worshipping the wrong deit(y/ies), and they can quote just as much irrelevant information to prove their point as you can.

Also keep in mind that Christianity didn't exist until recently and the Roman and Greek gods were real to them too. Fairy tales are so easy to buy into.

[Neo]

Also keep in mind that Christianity didn't exist until recently and the Roman and Greek gods were real to them too. Fairy tales are so easy to buy into.

But remember dodo's god is Bel, one of the original Sumerian pantheon and one of the first of whom we have written records.

Actually a good question, which 'god' is the oldest, from a written and / or oral history?

[TMoose]

Actually a good question, which 'god' is the oldest, from a written and / or oral history?I couldn't find the oldest god, but according to http://ask.yahoo.com/20011106.html the oldest religion is Hinduism. So one of the Indian gods is probably the oldest... I suppose *shrugs*

[Tux]

I couldn't find the oldest god, but according to http://ask.yahoo.com/20011106.html the oldest religion is Hinduism. So one of the Indian gods is probably the oldest... I suppose *shrugs*

Read an article somewhere that says it's the sun.

[Mr TB]

I just think you realised one day that you would some day die. Nobody want's to die, so you found a religion that claims that you will live forever in a happy place playing golf or doing whatever it is you like to do. No work, melted ice creams or cold coffee for you, no sir.

Just remember that the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and every other religion thinks they are just as right as you are... so your god isn't a very good communicator. In fact they think that you’re the one going to hell seeing as you’re worshipping the wrong deit(y/ies), and they can quote just as much irrelevant information to prove their point as you can.

Also keep in mind that Christianity didn't exist until recently and the Roman and Greek gods were real to them too. Fairy tales are so easy to buy into.

I just think you realised one day that you would some day die.
No sir, death is real to me. On the 10th March 1985 my father put a 9mm bullet in his head.
He wanted to shoot me with that same gun previously. He was 46 and I was 23...
I am turning 46 later this year, og don't pity me, I just want you to know death is real...


Nobody want's to die, so you found a religion that claims that you will live
forever in a happy place playing golf or doing whatever it is you like to
do. No work, melted ice creams or cold coffee for you, no sir.
Picking religion as a crutch will not solve anything, will it? In that way evolution is a crutch
for those who discard god is it not?

Just remember that the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and every other religion
thinks they are just as right as you are... so your god isn't a very good
communicator.
God not a good communicator or are we not willing to listen.
As far as I know Christianity is the only "religion" that do not require works
from our side to be saved...
The good done by a person is actually a sign that he/she is saved...
Your faith and trust in Christ justifies you and then follow the works...
I believe this is well-communicated, only those who refuse to listen will not hear...

In fact they think that you’re the one going to hell seeing
as you’re worshipping the wrong deit(y/ies)
Wasn't it you that actually said we are praying to the same GOD.
I caused a stir in showing by demoting Jesus to a prophet we are not praying
to the same GOD. Yes everyone was quite upset because no one want to
accept Jesus is the only way into heaven...

[Tux]

Wasn't it you that actually said we are praying to the same GOD.
I caused a stir in showing by demoting Jesus to a prophet we are not praying
to the same GOD. Yes everyone was quite upset because no one want to
accept Jesus is the only way into heaven...

Actually it was me you senile [censored]. And you can argue until you are blue in the face but you do pray to the same god as the jews and muslims. The god of abraham. And for the record, I'm not upset by your comments. I pity you. That's all I feel for you

[Mr TB]

Actually it was me you senile [censored]. And you can argue until you are blue in the face but you do pray to the same god as the jews and muslims. The god of abraham. And for the record, I'm not upset by your comments. I pity you. That's all I feel for you

Yeah, baba I don't pity a person...I sympathise and if that is not good enough he must take a hike...

The God of Abraham = Jesus Christ, Father and Holy Spirit. The M or J will not like it if you tell them they are praying to Jesus Christ... promise...

[Tux]

The God of Abraham = Jesus Christ, Father and Holy Spirit. The M or J will not like it if you tell them they are praying to Jesus Christ... promise...

So now in dodoland they suddenly pray to the same god? Do they get admission to your heaven now?

[Mr TB]

So now in dodoland they suddenly pray to the same god? Do they get admission to your heaven now?

Who is dodoland? According to my understanding salvation depends on the recognition of Christ Jesus as Savior and Lord...
Race does not count , if you deny Christ Jesus you are lost...

Oh yes my post was indeed not to upset anyone, just to show death is real.
Your reaction thereafter showed it indeed touched you, I apologise...

[TMoose]

Holy crap TB, can you use less red lettering in your incoherent posts next time? Your reply is engraved on my freaking retina. I'm sorry that your father committed suicide, that doesn't change the fact that religion is wishful thinking however, or that your god is just as real as all the others.

[Tux]

Who is dodoland? According to my understanding salvation depends on the recognition of Christ Jesus as Savior and Lord...
Race does not count , if you deny Christ Jesus you are lost...

Oh yes my post was indeed not to upset anyone, just to show death is real.
Your reaction thereafter showed it indeed touched you, I apologise...

Dude, you couldn't touch yourself even if you had instructions on how to do it

[Pr⊕phet]

Holy crap TB, can you use less red lettering in your incoherent posts next time? Your reply is engraved on my freaking retina. I'm sorry that your father committed suicide, that doesn't change the fact that religion is wishful thinking however, or that your god is just as real as all the others.

RED √

hheeheehheheeeeeeeeehhhhehhehehehheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeee

[TMoose]

RED √

hheeheehheheeeeeeeeehhhhehhehehehheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeI bite my thumb at you sir.

[Pr⊕phet]

Yeah, baba I don't pity a person...I sympathise and if that is not good enough he must take a hike...

The God of Abraham = Jesus Christ, Father and Holy Spirit. The M or J will not like it if you tell them they are praying to Jesus Christ... promise...

sigh... what copy of the bible do you have ?

is it backwards ?

Jesus and the Holy spirit was given/released or whatever in that sense according to the bible to the people after the OT. The Holy spirit was given by God to men in the absence of Christ on earth - Christ himself only came to earth when God sent him via mary.

the God of Abraham was YHVH as the the OT and its roots of jewish history/law/story



The most divine group of letters would be the name God gives to Himself. In Exodus 3, Moses ascends Mount Horeb, and God speaks from the burning bush, "Tell your people Jehovah (YHVH) has sent me." YHVH adds, "This is my Name forever, and My title from gereration to generation." In Exodus 6:3 YHVH explains to Moses, "I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty, (El Shaddai) but by My Name, Jehovah (YHVH) I did not make Myself known to them." YHVH tells Moses, in Numbers 6:27, "Put My Name on the sons of Israel and I will bless them."

http://communities.msn.com/YHVH

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Islam holds Jesus (Arabic: عيسى `Īsā) to have been a messenger and a prophet of God.The Qur'an gives him the unique title of the Messiah. According to the Qur'an, Jesus was one of God's most beloved messengers, a precursor to Muhammad,and was sent to guide the Children of Israel.The Qur'an tells of his miraculous birth to Mary (Arabic: Maryam), cites the miracles he performed by God's permission, and states that God raised him to his presence. Neal Robinson a historian of Islam, states that the Qur'an probably alludes to Jesus's future return.The Qur'an rejects Jesus's divinity and does not attach any significance to the cross. According to the traditional Muslim interpretation, the Qur'an also denies that Jesus was crucified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

i deeper understanding and study of the Torah/Hebrew and not just the Bible as it is and we have gotten it from the church and its translators might reveal more that you expect...

[ant5]

Hahaha what a priceless thread..where did you guys get Mr TB from??
Let me add another eloquent quote for him -
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Unknown

[Claymore]

Picking religion as a crutch will not solve anything, will it? In that way evolution is a crutch
for those who discard god is it not?

Except that many working in the field of evolutionary research happen to be religious.


As far as I know Christianity is the only "religion" that do not require works
from our side to be saved...

Incorrect. I was discussing this with my father in law this morning (he's busy with his Masters degree in Theology, after getting the top student award for his Honours degree), and he basically says that Protestants require faith for salvation, Catholics require faith and good works, and Jews require following the Covenant and faith.

[phenom]

why does god make some people near perfect, and others ugly, or with tails?
Is God unfair?

[TMoose]

why does god make some people near perfect, and others ugly, or with tails?
Is God unfair?You're clearly not listening to TB's wise words or you'd already know that the unfortunate tail owner is cursed because of none-believers. Yes, that's right he's getting our just deserts. That's also completely fair because it is all human kind that is to blame for the sad state of affairs and not our benevolent and just creator.

But don't worry, your sins will be moved from you as far as East is from West, causing that unsightly tail to drop right off! ... oh... wait.

[Mr TB]

sigh... what copy of the bible do you have ?

is it backwards ?

Jesus and the Holy spirit was given/released or whatever in that sense according to the bible to the people after the OT. The Holy spirit was given by God to men in the absence of Christ on earth - Christ himself only came to earth when God sent him via mary.

the God of Abraham was YHVH as the the OT and its roots of jewish history/law/story


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

i deeper understanding and study of the Torah/Hebrew and not just the Bible as it is and we have gotten it from the church and its translators might reveal more that you expect...

Why then does God say Let us make...? in GEN 1:26
The Spirit of God...? in GEN 1:1
Indeed I doubt what you are saying is correct...

[Mr TB]

But if you deny Jesus Christ..., you deny God...

[Pr⊕phet]

Why then does God say Let us make...? in GEN 1:26
The Spirit of God...? in GEN 1:1
Indeed I doubt what you are saying is correct...

since i lasted asked that question i got the answer that its an abbreviation the first tale told of creation (in the bible) and the second one is more explained one.

-there is however the possibility that its 2 different creation stories put into the bible, but also they are similar...


Why then does God say Let us make - should be my guess god talking to logos (which should be in reference jesus himself) and possible his spirit (holy spirit) all in all bit confusing other wise whats the chance god conversed with his angels ?
================================================== ==================================


if a man Peter has a son Jack and Peter sends Jack to you. you deny jack - do you deny peter as well ?

[PostmanPot]

But if you deny Jesus Christ..., you deny God...

Hahaha!

[Mr TB]

since i lasted asked that question i got the answer that its an abbreviation the first tale told of creation (in the bible) and the second one is more explained one.

-there is however the possibility that its 2 different creation stories put into the bible, but also they are similar...


Why then does God say Let us make - should be my guess god talking to logos (which should be in reference jesus himself) and possible his spirit (holy spirit) all in all bit confusing other wise whats the chance god conversed with his angels ?
================================================== ==================================


if a man Peter has a son Jack and Peter sends Jack to you. you deny jack - do you deny peter as well ?

Metaphorically speaking: If you remove the yoke from an egg, can it still be called an egg?

[Pr⊕phet]

well we do eat unfertilized eggs - is it still eggs ?

[Mr TB]

well we do eat unfertilized eggs - is it still eggs ?

Metaphorically speaking: A Triangle without 3 angles is not a triangle...

[PostmanPot]

Err...

[ToxicBunny]

Mr TB: no... not metaphorically speaking, a triangle without 3 angles, is not a triangle at all. period and full stop.

[Mr TB]

Mr TB: no... not metaphorically speaking, a triangle without 3 angles, is not a triangle at all. period and full stop.

Exactly....

Ummm... A God not recognising the person Christ Jesus as God is not a God.

[ToxicBunny]

Say what?... you're talking rubbish and rambling again. Repeat in english

[Pr⊕phet]

Metaphorically speaking: A Triangle without 3 angles is not a triangle...

[holy spirit]--------[god]------[jesus]

no triangle there. just a strait line with 3 sections on it ;)

which in retrospect actually should be:

[god + god's word/logos(jesus) + god's spirit(holy spirit)] == one thing, separated into parts by the masses...

[mind + body + spirit] ?



well we do eat unfertilized eggs - is it still eggs ?

and - are we eating eggs or what ?