2007/2008 WI tour to SA thread

[feo]

December 2007

Sun 16 Floodlit Match 18:00 local, 16:00 GMT
1st T20I - South Africa v West Indies, St George's Park, Port Elizabeth

Wed 26 - Sun 30 10:30 local, 08:30 GMT
1st Test - South Africa v West Indies, St George's Park, Port Elizabeth

January 2008

Wed 2 - Sun 6 10:30 local, 08:30 GMT
2nd Test - South Africa v West Indies, Newlands, Cape Town

Thu 10 - Mon 14 10:00 local, 08:00 GMT
3rd Test - South Africa v West Indies, Kingsmead, Durban

Fri 18 Floodlit Match 18:00 local, 16:00 GMT
2nd T20I - South Africa v West Indies, New Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg

Sun 20 10:00 local, 08:00 GMT
1st ODI - South Africa v West Indies, SuperSport Park, Centurion

Fri 25 Floodlit Match 14:30 local, 12:30 GMT
2nd ODI - South Africa v West Indies, Newlands, Cape Town

Sun 27 10:00 local, 08:00 GMT
3rd ODI - South Africa v West Indies, St George's Park, Port Elizabeth

February 2008
Fri 1 Floodlit Match 14:30 local, 12:30 GMT
4th ODI - South Africa v West Indies, Kingsmead, Durban

Sun 3 10:00 local, 08:00 GMT
5th ODI - South Africa v West Indies, New Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg

SA FTW!

[Highflyer_GP]

Hey no fair, Durbs and Cpt both get a test and an ODI and Jhb only gets and ODI :(

[feo]

Hey no fair, Durbs and Cpt both get a test and an ODI and Jhb only gets and ODI :(
We get a floodlit T20 and the final ODI which makes up for it don't you think?

[Highflyer_GP]

T20 = 3 hours. Test = 5 days. Plus the ODI series would already be won by the time it gets to the final one

And PE gets all three! I don't wanna listen to Stand By Me three times! :(

[feo]

T20 = 3 hours. Test = 5 days. Plus the ODI series would already be won by the time it gets to the final one
Dude, think 438.

It could happen again (or maybe not :D).

[stepper]

Joburg allready had a test this season. No franchise can host more than one test if there are less than six tests being played the whole summer. I think its a fair system. Why is the Boxing test being taken away from Durban?

[JK8]

Most of JHB will be at the coast....

[.geek]

I take it the lack of posts regarding the T20 vs the Windies sums up everyone's mood the Proteas performance. :(

[feo]

I only caught the highlights but yeah 12/6 was pathetic. Dale Steyn performed well though, but yeah, not a good start for the Proteas. :(

[Highflyer_GP]

See, now if we played in Jhb/Centurion there's no way we would have lost it ;)

Not relevant though, the tests and ODI's are entirely different games.

[sand_man]

was dismal, I'm sorry to harp on about this but I don't rate Mickey Arthur, not at all...

[Picard]

was dismal, I'm sorry to harp on about this but I don't rate Mickey Arthur, not at all...

Kepler Wessels for coach!!! http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/a69ca768a0.gif

[.geek]

was dismal, I'm sorry to harp on about this but I don't rate Mickey Arthur, not at all...

We've just beaten New Zealand & Pakistan. :rolleyes:

[sand_man]

We've just beaten New Zealand & Pakistan. :rolleyes:

with all due respect to them they're both rubbish!! there only 3 sides in world cricket that we should battle to beat, England, India and Oz'...perhaps Sri Lanka...

Pakistan are ranked 6th in test cricket and 6th in one day cricket while New Zealand are ranked 7th in test cricket and 3rd in one day cricket.

The West Indies are ranked 8th in both forms of the game.

We should beat them comfortably. I honestly believe that despite the Proteas successes against Pakistan and NZ of late the side is under performing most notably in the world cup and pro20 world cup. For me he weakest link is Mickey... sorry...

[sand_man]

Kepler Wessels for coach!!! http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/a69ca768a0.gif

dam it Picard, thought you had some inside info that would have made my xmas but none-the-less thanks for the cartoon...

[WonderBob]

with all due respect to them they're both rubbish!! there only 3 sides in world cricket that we should battle to beat, England, India and Oz'...perhaps Sri Lanka...

Pakistan are ranked 6th in test cricket and 6th in one day cricket while New Zealand are ranked 7th in test cricket and 3rd in one day cricket.

The West Indies are ranked 8th in both forms of the game.

We should beat them comfortably. I honestly believe that despite the Proteas successes against Pakistan and NZ of late the side is under performing most notably in the world cup and pro20 world cup. For me he weakest link is Mickey... sorry...

Who gives a crap about a 13 over game ??

Half the regular side was not even playing, the loss on Sunday will mean NOTHING. If we are lucky it might give the Windies some confidence and we will at least get a bit of a contest, rahter than a one sided series.

[killadoob]

no smith is the weak link coupled with arthur

[Soulsnatcher]

Smith is ok... really he is. Arrogance comes from being Captain at a very early age and his successes early on in Eng. Yes, he is underpreforming, yes his technique is flawed but fuggit, if he comes good, he scores some big valuable scores...

We need that arrogance... really we do. Smith is the best option in my opinion for captain. Balls to the wall approach!

Mickey on the other hand is seriously lacking in skills and talent as a coach... CSA made a HUGE error when they let Ray Jennings go! He is by FAR the best coach in the country followed by Graham Ford in England.

[chiskop]

...if we are lucky it might give the Windies some confidence and we will at least get a bit of a contest, rahter than a one sided series.

Yep, that is my hope. I would rather see us win a close contest than club WI like we did NZ, there's no fun in that.

[sand_man]

Smith is ok... really he is.
We need that arrogance... really we do. Smith is the best option in my opinion for captain. Balls to the wall approach!

Mickey on the other hand is seriously lacking in skills and talent as a coach... CSA made a HUGE error when they let Ray Jennings go! He is by FAR the best coach in the country followed by Graham Ford in England.

Well said, you 100% correct!!!

[sand_man]

Yep, that is my hope. I would rather see us win a close contest than club WI like we did NZ, there's no fun in that.


agreed but we got England and OZ to come so we need to be in the sort of form that see's us clubbing a side which although improving all the time is at best pretty weak....

[WonderBob]

agreed but we got England and OZ to come so we need to be in the sort of form that see's us clubbing a side which although improving all the time is at best pretty weak....

I would rather say we need a close contest, so we can prepare for the England and Oz tours.

We need to get tested.

Dont think walking over the Windies will do us any good for the Eng and Oz tours.

[sand_man]

I would rather say we need a close contest, so we can prepare for the England and Oz tours.

We need to get tested.

Dont think walking over the Windies will do us any good for the Eng and Oz tours.

Agreed although if they do test us then what will OZ and England do to us?

[Soulsnatcher]

Agreed although if they do test us then what will OZ and England do to us?

Absolutely!!

With all things being equal, we should actually thrash the Windies!!! I reckon, that confidence gained will stand us in good stead against England.

What we do against the poms will determine how well we fair against the ozzies... (Realistically, if we win ONE test over there it would be BRILLIANT)

[WonderBob]

Agreed although if they do test us then what will OZ and England do to us?

Well, we don't want the series to be "testing" because we underperformed, rather "testing" because they step up to the plate.

If they don't perform and we just coast through, we wont get tested and will go to India with a false sense of achievement.

Just my opinion, although the Eng and Oz series is still a way to go.

[WonderBob]

Absolutely!!

With all things being equal, we should actually thrash the Windies!!! I reckon, that confidence gained will stand us in good stead against England.

What we do against the poms will determine how well we fair against the ozzies... (Realistically, if we win ONE test over there it would be BRILLIANT)

We should have beaten them in 2003, Eng got lucky and managed to draw the series 2-2.

With our current bowling line-up, and if the batsmen performs to their ability, we should be able to win the series.

[sand_man]

With our current bowling line-up, and if the batsmen performs to their ability, we should be able to win the series.

Agreed...


And this is where Mickey is failing for me. Mkaya is in an obvious slump of form, a good coach would get him back to bowling with rhythm and skill and the same could be suggested about Graeme and his lack of form.

I just feel a coach on top of his game brings out the best in his personnal and this doesn't seem to be happening at the mo...

[AirWolf]

I only caught the highlights but yeah 12/6 was pathetic. Dale Steyn performed well though, but yeah, not a good start for the Proteas. :(

I only saw the score on yesterday's news. Good thing I didn't watch the game:(.

[WonderBob]

I only saw the score on yesterday's news. Good thing I didn't watch the game:(.

I found the game entertaining. It happens to all teams at some stage, wickets just kept falling. And once you panic in that situation, things keep on going wrong. Was only a 13 over game, so no biggy.

And only 4 of the players are in the test team (3 without Pollock), and Steyn bowled like a demon. So can not read to much in to the game regarding the impact on the rest of the series.

[WonderBob]

Agreed...


And this is where Mickey is failing for me. Mkaya is in an obvious slump of form, a good coach would get him back to bowling with rhythm and skill and the same could be suggested about Graeme and his lack of form.

I just feel a coach on top of his game brings out the best in his personnal and this doesn't seem to be happening at the mo...

Mickey Mouse is useless. He might be able to manage, organise and strategise a bit, but obviously can not coach for sh$t.

[Soulsnatcher]

Ja, agreed that in 2003 they were extremely lucky to draw the series and inexperience at the end cost us the series in eng.

Wrt to Windies - Steyn, Nel and Morkel (is he playing in the test?) should blow them away. Expect Graeme to come good not because of coaching or correcting his technique, but because windies are too inept to expose him. Kallis will come good and Gibbs will also have his one innings of brilliance!

It will be interesting to see how Harris preforms... Between him and Botha i reckon for the series against Eng and Oz...

[WonderBob]

Ja, agreed that in 2003 they were extremely lucky to draw the series and inexperience at the end cost us the series in eng.

Wrt to Windies - Steyn, Nel and Morkel (is he playing in the test?) should blow them away. Expect Graeme to come good not because of coaching or correcting his technique, but because windies are too inept to expose him. Kallis will come good and Gibbs will also have his one innings of brilliance!

It will be interesting to see how Harris preforms... Between him and Botha i reckon for the series against Eng and Oz...

Morkel is in the squad, but wont play in the first 2 tests, still recovering from the injury.

I dont expect Harris to do all that well, if you look at how the spinners performed in the SS Series so far this season, it suggests that the pitches are more suited to pace bowling. But hopefully he pulls something out the bag.

Steyn will kick some serious a$$.

[Soulsnatcher]

Morkel is in the squad, but wont play in the first 2 tests, still recovering from the injury.

I dont expect Harris to do all that well, if you look at how the spinners performed in the SS Series so far this season, it suggests that the pitches are more suited to pace bowling. But hopefully he pulls something out the bag.

Steyn will kick some serious a$$.

That he will!!! Amazing the selectors ignored him for 2 seasons after the home series against Eng...

Harris - That is my fear as well... We need a spinner ffs! How is Tshabalala preforming these days?

[.geek]

South Africa's record at home is pretty impressive, but Port Elizabeth is the one ground where they haven't got it right, with eight wins and ten defeats. Smith admitted that's a record he wants to rectify: "It's fair to say we haven't played our best cricket down here in Port Elizabeth, but that doesn't mean we can't play good cricket. We just want to keep on improving our game, and getting better and better. If we do, I'm pretty confident that once we get into the series, we can take control of it."


South Africa (probable) 1 Graeme Smith (capt), 2 Herschelle Gibbs, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 Ashwell Prince, 6 AB de Villiers, 7 Mark Boucher (wk), 8 Shaun Pollock, 9 Paul Harris, 10 Dale Steyn, 11 Makhaya Ntini.

West Indies (from) Chris Gayle (capt), Daren Ganga, Devon Smith, Brenton Parchment, Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Runako Morton, Marlon Samuels, Dwayne Bravo, Denesh Ramdin (wk), Rawl Lewis, Pedro Collins, Fidel Edwards, Daren Powell, Darren Sammy, Jerome Taylor.

Nice to see Pollock back in the team. I'm not sure Nel did much wrong to lose his place? Unless he's picked up an injury.

Source: Cricinfo (http://content-rsa.cricinfo.com/wivzimsa/content/current/story/327352.html).

[sand_man]

mmm.. interesting team selection yes. I would have been inclined to include a very in form Zondeki in the starting line up at the expense of Harris. Isn't St georges Zondeki's home ground? I would have also included Nel at the expense of a batsman, probably Ashwell.

What's the weather like in PE? Hope it's dry!!!

We will have to harass Bwana for a weather update...

[The Cosmos]

I'm in holiday in PE, and it's raining the past day or two.
And doesn't look good for tomorrow's start.

[sand_man]

I'm in holiday in PE, and it's raining the past day or two.
And doesn't look good for tomorrow's start.
damn it. keep us posted...

[mercurial]

the windies are pwning SA. 408 all out

for live scorecard (http://content-rsa.cricinfo.com/wivzimsa/engine/current/match/298801.html)

[sand_man]

yes they are, damn it!! why didn't Nel bowl around the wicket to Sarwin earlier? gees... oh damn it Gibbs out for 0!!!

[mercurial]

SA 2/1 bwaahaahaaa

[chiskop]

Oh dear. I'm deep in dis pear.

[mccrack]

And Smiffy departs ...... :rolleyes:

Oh well, hopefully Kallis regains that form he had the last time the Windies toured SA.

[mccrack]

Guess i jinxed him .... oh well .... 58/3

[sand_man]

game over, there is no ways SA can win from here, better pray for rain. once again the boys have arrived to play a test match under cooked. Once again Mickey Mouse impeccable attention to detail.

[AirWolf]

Guess i jinxed him .... oh well .... 58/3

Kallis gone for .... 0 :eek:

[mccrack]

Gibbs last scored a century in JAN 2005 ...... in a matter of days it'll be 3yrs without a Test century ....

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/45224.html?class=1;template=results;type=allround; view=innings

I see it's 4 down now .... in a spot of bother....

[sand_man]

Gibbs last scored a century in JAN 2005 ...... in a matter of days it'll be 3yrs without a Test century ....

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/45224.html?class=1;template=results;type=allround; view=innings

I see it's 4 down now .... in a spot of bother....

wow that's a rather daming stat although he's got quite a few 50's and 90's... for me when players struggle they not getting anything significant from the coach, coaching or motivating them out of the slump... I'm sorry to be so critical but for me Mickey has absolutley nothing to offer this team...

[mccrack]

Well,

Let's hope that the Windies continue being this competitive throughout the series, it'll give a good indication where we are.

Big year coming up next year, away to England, India and Australia.

[mercurial]

Gibbs last scored a century in JAN 2005 ...... in a matter of days it'll be 3yrs without a Test century ....

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/45224.html?class=1;template=results;type=allround; view=innings



holy **** :eek:

SA is too complacent. they've always beaten the windies with ease and now that mentality is costing them. for any youngsters out there, this is exactly what you don't do :D

[Soulsnatcher]

Jeepers Creepers but we are absolutely Kuk!!!!! Couldn't believe my eyes yesterday!!!! Morton is so flawed, we should've bagged him in his early 20's already... Appaling!!! Anyone else noticed how fat/overweight Graeme Smith is at the moment??? Is he even fit? Maybe that is why he is struggling so much? Carrying all that extra weight around...

We should klap these ouks!!! I foresee some serious trouble in pomland and oz...

[sand_man]

We should klap these ouks!!! I foresee some serious trouble in pomland and oz...

Indeed, the Ozzies are as clinical as usual putting the Indians to the sword...

[mercurial]

the reason why australia can be arrogant is cos they can afford to. they do their talking on, and off the field.

[Soulsnatcher]

Indeed, the Ozzies are as clinical as usual putting the Indians to the sword...

I know, and i had so high hopes when seeing the indians bowling so well on the first day... Once Tendulkar and Ganguly went it was over....

The best we can do from here on in is a draw... What is the stats on test played @ St. Georges.... I can remember a couple from the ozzies where we got seriously klapped... Why do CSA insist we play on that track??? Doesn't suit our attack and batting techniques at aLL

[chiskop]

I know, and i had so high hopes when seeing the indians bowling so well on the first day... Once Tendulkar and Ganguly went it was over....

Hey I know that feeling. It feels like the two matches (Aus vs Ind and Sa vs WI) were cruising just nicely on boxing day, then yesterday everything went crap-shaped in both games. I have a duty to watch the SA game, but I can hardly bear to watch the Indians getting beaten after they had the australians in so much trouble.

[Luke7777]

...Why do CSA insist we play on that track??? Doesn't suit our attack and batting techniques at aLLDifficult these days to find a track that does. Apparently we look quite good in the nets ;)

[Soulsnatcher]

Hey I know that feeling. It feels like the two matches (Aus vs Ind and Sa vs WI) were cruising just nicely on boxing day, then yesterday everything went crap-shaped in both games. I have a duty to watch the SA game, but I can hardly bear to watch the Indians getting beaten after they had the australians in so much trouble.

I feel your pain! Its gonna take an almighty convincing job to make me watch our game today...

The thing with the ozzies are that once you get them in trouble, they hit back hard and with more venom and determination... Its like a double edged sword really... They're most vulnerable when they are cruising... Think back to that game in WI where WI had to score 430 to win the test on the final day and also when India had to score 380 on last day to win the test agains Oz in 2000. Think the ODI's when NZL won by chasing 300+ on 3 consecutive matches....

India have it to beat them, but not this test... They're screwed...

I also think we should drop Prince to give him a wake up call and give Mckenzie a look in? How much more should the poor guy do to get recognised???

[Soulsnatcher]

Difficult these days to find a track that does. Apparently we look quite good in the nets ;)

:D:D Ja dude, anything Mickey Mouse Arthur says needs to be take with a pinch of salt... How long has Graeme looked good in the nets???? 2 - 3 yrs??

[chiskop]

I also think we should drop Prince to give him a wake up call and give Mckenzie a look in? How much more should the poor guy do to get recognised???

I dunno, but Prince is a sixth specialist batsman and I'm not sure that we really have the space in the team for that many. We used to be a team with multiple all rounders, suddenly we have six batsmen, four bowlers and Boucher.

Only Kallis can really be called an all-rounder in this team. I think that means that we have fewer options, both on the field and batting.

On the field, we saw what happened when secret weapon Steyn failed to fire: nothing much.

With the batting, we've relied on specialist batsmen to get us to 120/5??? Really, once the next wicket falls we're into our tail-enders.

[Soulsnatcher]

I dunno, but Prince is a sixth specialist batsman and I'm not sure that we really have the space in the team for that many. We used to be a team with multiple all rounders, suddenly we have six batsmen, four bowlers and Boucher.

Only Kallis can really be called an all-rounder in this team. I think that means that we have fewer options, both on the field and batting.

On the field, we saw what happened when secret weapon Steyn failed to fire: nothing much.

With the batting, we've relied on specialist batsmen to get us to 120/5??? Really, once the next wicket falls we're into our tail-enders.

Well, on status quo we could replace him... Agreed Kallis is the only true all rounder... How I wish CSA treated Hall better... Pollock is unfortunately past it... Agreed - If steyn fails we don't have any venom in our pace attack... Ntini is down 10km/h on his bowling- wtf?

Next wicket down would see Nella coming in @ 8... :eek:

Were in kuk already...

[mercurial]

expect a huge fightback from SA in the following test matches

[The Cosmos]

I know, and i had so high hopes when seeing the indians bowling so well on the first day... Once Tendulkar and Ganguly went it was over....

The best we can do from here on in is a draw... What is the stats on test played @ St. Georges.... I can remember a couple from the ozzies where we got seriously klapped... Why do CSA insist we play on that track??? Doesn't suit our attack and batting techniques at aLL

It's the only real track that is different to the other tracks in SA. It's also the closest track to anything the sub-continent has to offer. If we can only play on fast pitches, then we might as well not play cricket.

[milomak]

How has Prince performed as opposed to Gibbs in the last year or two? Would be interesting stats to see. McKenzie is more an opener so it would make sense to replace Gibbs with him and if we are intent on replacing Prince then look for an allrounder to fill that role?

[chiskop]

How has Prince performed as opposed to Gibbs in the last year or two? Would be interesting stats to see. McKenzie is more an opener so it would make sense to replace Gibbs with him and if we are intent on replacing Prince then look for an allrounder to fill that role?

Yeah, I was quite surprised to read that stat about Gibbs' last century, which was almost in the last century now.

The thing is, when you at 140/6 against WI, all of your batsmen need to be taking their jobs a little more seriously. Except for Kallis and Amla, the recent form of all of our batsmen has been nothing to write home about.

I mentioned allrounders just becuase it feels like when we've been in this kind of position before we've had Pollock, Klusener, Macmillan, or half a dozen allrounders who've been able to look after things at the tail end of our batting line up. I don't think that Harris, Nel, Steyn or Ntini are really up for that job.

[milomak]

yeah the batsmen form has been nothing short of shocking for a long while. you are quite right that amlan and kallis papered over the cracks by providing good platforms against which our bowlers were able to work.

I would say however our batting line-up has been suspect for much longer than just recent form. Which says something about the caoching setup.

[Picard]

I would say however our batting line-up has been suspect for much longer than just recent form. Which says something about the caoching setup.

I think it says more about the selection setup.

[sand_man]

I will continue blaming MMA (Mickey Mouse Arthur), SA cricket has never had so many options yet it's not happening.

For me it's the inability of the coach to instill confidence and faith in the senior and/or out of form players. He has been unable to motivate them or coach them out of their repsective slumps. He's a clown, sorry but he is...

As for the starting line up I don't think there is anything wrong with the personnel. Gibbs has huge experience and on his day he is devastating in addition to being a magnificient fielder. Smithie should never have been made captain, it's impacting on his game but he to is massively talented. Who's dumb ass decision was it though to field 1st after winning the toss?!!!

As for Ashwell, yeah, Boeta and Mckenzie are better bets but there's a bit of window dressing going on there.

I would have liked to see Zondeki start instead of Harris. Zondeki has been in scintillating form lately and he should have been included. He took 8wickets for SA "A" in a 4 day game where the Windies were rolled and then some!!!

But the depth in SA cricket is there, there the Morkel brothers too so lots of options.

Once again I stress Ray Jennings should have been retained as coach. That for me was the **** up the decade, well at least until SARU let Jake go!!!!! Dumb asses!!!

[AirWolf]

I know, and i had so high hopes when seeing the indians bowling so well on the first day... Once Tendulkar and Ganguly went it was over....

The best we can do from here on in is a draw... What is the stats on test played @ St. Georges.... I can remember a couple from the ozzies where we got seriously klapped... Why do CSA insist we play on that track??? Doesn't suit our attack and batting techniques at aLL

What happened to home ground advantage? And secondly, good teams perform decently on any pitch. Thirdly I've
also noticed the screw up with our selection - the lack of all rounders which used to be an advantage.

[sand_man]

I will continue blaming MMA (Mickey Mouse Arthur), SA cricket has never had so many options yet it's not happening.

For me it's the inability of the coach to instill confidence and faith in the senior and/or out of form players. He has been unable to motivate them or coach them out of their respective slumps. He's a clown, sorry but he is...

As for the starting line up I don't think there is anything wrong with the personnel. Gibbs has huge experience and on his day he is devastating in addition to being a magnificent fielder. Smithy should never have been made captain, it's impacting on his game but he to is massively talented. Who's dumb ass decision was it though to field 1st after winning the toss?!!!

As for Ashwell, yeah, Boeta and McKenzie are better bets but there's a bit of window dressing going on there.

I would have liked to see Zondeki start instead of Harris. Zondeki has been in scintillating form lately and he should have been included. He took 8wickets for SA "A" in a 4 day game where the Windies were rolled and then some!!!

But the depth in SA cricket is there, there the Morkel brothers too so lots of options.

Once again I stress Ray Jennings should have been retained as coach. That for me was the **** up of the decade, well at least until SARU let Jake go!!!!! Dumb asses!!!

[chiskop]

195 all out. :sick:

WI deciding whether or not they want us to bat again.

[AirWolf]

195 all out. :sick:

WI deciding whether or not they want us to bat again.

Coincidentally India were 196 all out yesterday.

[chiskop]

Coincidentally India were 196 all out yesterday.

Difference is they were facing the best team in the world at home. :o

[AirWolf]

Difference is they were facing the best team in the world at home. :o

Now that makes me feel even worse :(

[mercurial]

windies have a 213 run lead if i saw correctly.

[Highflyer_GP]

Pollock should be in for Prince. I just don't see Prince adding any value to the team in his current form. Being a fast runner alone doesn't warrant a place. How on earth do you leave out one of the world's best all rounders and our leading wicket taker?

The selectors need to learn how to rotate our players. Just because we win a few games doesn't mean that you stick to the same team, you improve it by swapping out the players who didn't perform and contribute adequately to the win. Those players then need to make their way back into the team by performing exceptionally at first class level.

[chiskop]

windies have a 213 run lead if i saw correctly.

Yeah, plus 32/0 in their second innings = 245 run lead. :sick:

HF_GP: I agree completely with what you say about Prince. Perhaps though, the selectors were trying to rotate the squad by leaving out Pollock? (I'm not defending them, just trying to understand them).

But if it was my team Pollock would be in, Prince wouldn't.

EDIT: Gayle's out - caught behind off Ntini for 29.

[mercurial]

ya i agree. plus pollock is a good batsman as well. what could prince do better than pollock with the bat? it's basically a good batsman and bowler substitution for just a batsman and i can't see why they're not doing it already. maybe there's some politics going on there cos i can't see the logic for leaving out pollock.

[AirWolf]

With 2 days left WI will probably want to set a target in excess of 400 :(

[milomak]

someone with access to statsguru please provide the stats for prince and gibbs over the last two years. If you really have the time, all the batsmen playing today.

[mercurial]

Ashwell Prince

Career averages


Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4's 6's
2002-2007 34 55 6 2014 139* 41.10 4842 41.59 6 6 3 214 3
2006-2007 20 36 5 1423 138 45.90 3379 42.11 4 6 1 152 0


Match by match list


119 and 18 vs. Australia Sydney 2 Jan 2006
17 and 27 vs. Australia Cape Town 16 Mar 2006
33 and 7 vs. Australia Durban 24 Mar 2006 Test
93 and 9 vs. Australia Johannesburg 31 Mar 2006
9 and 11 vs. New Zealand Centurion 15 Apr 2006
108* and -- vs. New Zealand Cape Town 27 Apr 2006
4 and 43* vs. New Zealand Johannesburg 5 May 2006
1 and 61 vs. Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC) 27 Jul 2006
86 and 17 vs. Sri Lanka Colombo (PSS) 4 Aug 2006
24 and 97 vs. India Johannesburg 15 Dec 2006
121 and 0 vs. India Durban 26 Dec 2006
26 and 38* vs. India Cape Town 2 Jan 2007
138 and -- vs. Pakistan Centurion 11 Jan 2007
2 and 22 vs. Pakistan Port Elizabeth 19 Jan 2007
19 and 59* vs. Pakistan Cape Town 26 Jan 2007
36 and 45 vs. Pakistan Karachi 1 Oct 2007
63 and 11 vs. Pakistan Lahore 8 Oct 2007
1 and 25 vs. New Zealand Johannesburg 8 Nov 2007
13 and 13 vs. New Zealand Centurion 16 Nov 2007
20 and -- vs. West Indies Port Elizabeth 26 Dec 2007

so basically, 4 x 100's and 5 x 50's if i see correctly, in the last 2 years for Prince.

[Highflyer_GP]

Wrap it in code tags to keep the formatting

[sand_man]

So perhaps we being a bit harsh on Prince then cause there's nothing wrong with those figures??!!

[mercurial]

Span Mat Runs HS Avg 100
1996-2007 89 6140 228 42.34 14
2006-2007 17 756 94 25.20 0

Match by match list

Bat1 Bat2 Runs Opposition Ground Start Date

27 67 94 Australia Sydney 2 Jan 2006 Test # 1780
18 0 18 Australia Cape Town 16 Mar 2006 Test # 1789
9 17 26 Australia Durban 24 Mar 2006 Test # 1792
16 53 69 Australia Johannesburg 31 Mar 2006 Test # 1795
6 2 8 New Zealand Centurion 15 Apr 2006 Test # 1798
19 18 37 Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC) 27 Jul 2006 Test # 1810
0 92 92 Sri Lanka Colombo (PSS) 4 Aug 2006 Test # 1812
0 0 0 India Johannesburg 15 Dec 2006 Test # 1823
63 9 72 India Durban 26 Dec 2006 Test # 1825
70* 7 77 India Cape Town 2 Jan 2007 Test # 1827
94 DNB 94 Pakistan Centurion 11 Jan 2007 Test # 1828
2 40 42 Pakistan Port Elizabeth 19 Jan 2007 Test # 1829
54 18 72 Pakistan Karachi 1 Oct 2007 Test # 1843
13 16 29 Pakistan Lahore 8 Oct 2007 Test # 1844
63 8 71 New Zealand Johannesburg 8 Nov 2007 Test # 1846
25 - 25 New Zealand Centurion 16 Nov 2007 Test # 1848
0 - 0 West Indies Port Elizabeth 26 Dec 2007 Test # 1856

0 x 100's and 8 x 50's for Gibbs in the last 2 years. Clearly Prince has performed better than Gibbs.

[milomak]

i am guessing that Prince's record is higher looking at those two lists briefly. Also another failing of Gibbs (and Smith) is that as top order batsmen it is their speciality that they can deal with the new ball. thus when they both go cheaply they expose the middle order much quicker to the new ball.

Thus my preference for someone like Boeta or Mckenzie to come in at the top of the order. Which is what they are used to in any event isn't it?

[mercurial]

thanks highflyer and apologies guys for the terrible formatting.

[Highflyer_GP]

So perhaps we being a bit harsh on Prince then cause there's nothing wrong with those figures??!!

Prince in the last 6 months:


Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St
5 214 63 30.57 0 - - - - 4 0

Also stats don't tell the whole story, it's the way he plays. When we're in control of the match, he keeps his wicket (which is fine). But when we need quick runs he doesn't score quickly enough. And when we need somebody to keep their wicket, he gets out. So what's the point of having him in the team if he can't play according to the situation? Ultimately that's the factor that decides the fate of a match, not averages.

Gibbs we all know has that factor. He can single handedly take the match away.

[mccrack]

Gibbs we all know has that factor. He can single handedly take the match away.

Not for 3 years in Tests he doesn't :)

[sand_man]

Not for 3 years in Tests he doesn't :)
Agreed, his average recently is dismal but consider how many runs he saves in the field. The run out he effected today was sublime! I would persevere with Gibbs, I must be honest, at least till the end of this Windies tour but yes he needs to score some big runs and soon... Perhaps he is going to do it in the 2nd innings in this test!!!

[sand_man]

Prince in the last 6 months:


Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St
5 214 63 30.57 0 - - - - 4 0

Also stats don't tell the whole story, it's the way he plays. When we're in control of the match, he keeps his wicket (which is fine). But when we need quick runs he doesn't score quickly enough. And when we need somebody to keep their wicket, he gets out. So what's the point of having him in the team if he can't play according to the situation? Ultimately that's the factor that decides the fate of a match, not averages.

Yeah I got to agree with you on that but I don't think he's in the test team to score quick runs regardless of the situation. He's not that tyoe of player. He very much needs to build his innings and I do think in test cricket a players average speaks volumes of his ability. 30.57 is particularly good but to be honest only Kallis and Amla have been dominant in the last couple of months...

[AirWolf]

6 quick wickets at the end yesterday give us a glimmer of hope :)

[AirWolf]

Gibbs gets another duck :(

One year and one week after his previous double duck.

[feo]

I hate it when we're on the receiving end of an ass whupping. :( I'd be happy if we managed to draw the match.

[sand_man]

Gibbs gets another duck :(

One year and one week after his previous double duck.

Yeah, game over!!! hell but this has been a very sub par performance from SA!!! Mickey must catch a ****ing wake up or start packing his bags!!! Cannot believe that he is still in charge!!

[milomak]

Prince in the last 6 months:


Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St
5 214 63 30.57 0 - - - - 4 0

Also stats don't tell the whole story, it's the way he plays. When we're in control of the match, he keeps his wicket (which is fine). But when we need quick runs he doesn't score quickly enough. And when we need somebody to keep their wicket, he gets out. So what's the point of having him in the team if he can't play according to the situation? Ultimately that's the factor that decides the fate of a match, not averages.

Gibbs we all know has that factor. He can single handedly take the match away.

Can you perhaps furnish us with the same stats for Gibbs. The fact of the matter is that Gibbs might have this ability to come good. But he consistently doesn't. You say Prince does what is expected of him. Gibbs doesn't even do that.

[hj2k_x]

45/4. Not looking good :(

[stepper]

The 60/4 syndrome has come back but this time there is no Symcox, Richardson, Pollock down the order to save us.

[sox63]

We don't deserve to even draw this game. :(

It sucks we have to be the ones that the West Indies manage to beat after a 20 test drought.

[stepper]

If Gibbs is retained for the next test then we know the 'clique' exists. Get AB to the top of the order and bring McKenzie to no. 3. Even Biff is not looking good at all.

[Highflyer_GP]

Can you perhaps furnish us with the same stats for Gibbs. The fact of the matter is that Gibbs might have this ability to come good. But he consistently doesn't. You say Prince does what is expected of him. Gibbs doesn't even do that.

You're right I shouldn't be making excuses for Gibbs, he doesn't deserve a place either. Mckenzie or Diepenaar should be included for the next match.

But our issues aside, it's good to see the Windies starting to perform well. Just a pity that it's against us.

[mccrack]

Bit of an umpiring shocker to dismiss Kallis ....

Surely the rules should be amended for the 3rd umpire to intervene in such circumstances ..... the technology exists ... use it.

[Abe]

Can you perhaps furnish us with the same stats for Gibbs. The fact of the matter is that Gibbs might have this ability to come good. But he consistently doesn't. You say Prince does what is expected of him. Gibbs doesn't even do that.

Gibbs is averaging only 26 over the last 30 innings.

Amla is averaging 49.25 over the last 5 matches but if you take away his two hundreds it's only 14.38.

Smith is averaging 39.44 over the last 5 matches but if you take away his only decent score then it's only 24.

AB is averaging 35.33 over the last 5 matches.

Kallis is averaging 120.85 over the last 5 matches.

While AB's is too low, at least he is consistant. Kallis is single handedly carrying the side. You can't have so many players in the side who are scoring one big score in 10 innings. They need to spatter some 50's in there as well. Gibbs, Amla, Prince and Smith should be dropped. Niel Mac, Puttick and Dippennar are all on top of their game at the moment. It's even worse in that we now have 4 bowlers in the side who average under 10.

To put all of these in perspective, Pollock who was dropped was averaging 38.00 with the bat over the last 5 matches and at the same time had 21 wickets at an average of 18.8.

I have no time for SA cricket any more. Smith runs the side and Micky Mouse is just an appleaser.

Also, in this series to date there are only two SA batsmen averaging over 20 (AB and Kallis). Not good enough.

[sand_man]

Gibbs is averaging only 26 over the last 30 innings.

Amla is averaging 49.25 over the last 5 matches but if you take away his two hundreds it's only 14.38.

Smith is averaging 39.44 over the last 5 matches but if you take away his only decent score then it's only 24.

AB is averaging 35.33 over the last 5 matches.

Kallis is averaging 120.85 over the last 5 matches.


I have no time for SA cricket any more. Smith runs the side and Micky Mouse is just an appleaser.



yeah you make valid points and the stats don't lie but I wouldn't make such drastic wholesale changes. I reckon that could be detrimental to the longterm well being of the team. I would however replace the coach, he is as amateurish and incompetent as they come, oh where oh where art thou Ray??!!...

[feo]

That's it, game over. Nel should be promoted a place or 2 up the order, his batting has definitely improved. It was fun to watch Gayle ***** bricks for a while there while Nel and Steyn had their fun. :D

[maverick]

Morne Van Wyk in for Boucher and take over from Gibbs to open.
Gibbs bat at 6 to try and get some form back.
Mckenzie in for Prince.
Pollock in for Ntini.

[Abe]

Morne Van Wyk in for Boucher and take over from Gibbs to open.
Gibbs bat at 6 to try and get some form back.

He has already tried that and it didn't work. He averages 26 over 15 odd test matches. Thats one long poor run of form. I would give someone else a chance.


Mckenzie in for Prince.
Pollock in for Ntini.

Agree with that one 100%. Ntini needs a wake up call. He should have been dropped before Pakistan instead of Polly.

[mccrack]

Morne Van Wyk in for Boucher and take over from Gibbs to open.
Gibbs bat at 6 to try and get some form back.
Mckenzie in for Prince.
Pollock in for Ntini.

And the powers that be read this and interpreted as follows :

White replace White, promote white to open / demote black to middle order.
White in for Black.
White in for Black.

:p


But on a serious note, a hard line needs to be taken with the players, if you dont perform you're out, simple ..... and that includes Smiff.
3 yrs without a century and still being preserved is ridiculous, that's at least 2 yrs that someone else could have performed well if given an oppurtunity.


EDIT: That said .... no-one exactly setting the cricketing world on fire with batting performances :

http://www.supersport.co.za/cricket/content.aspx?id=14923&cat=91

[Luke7777]

Colour-coded :)

Zondeki in for Ntini
Dumini in for Prince
Pollock in for Harris
Boucher stays
AB to open
Alvero Peterson/Bodi in for Gibbs

[mccrack]

Colour-coded :)

Zondeki in for Ntini
Dumini in for Prince
Pollock in for Harris
Boucher stays
AB to open
Alvero Peterson/Bodi in for Gibbs

:D

Now that's a lot more colour friendly :)

But then there is no spinner :P

[sand_man]

Believe me the only change this team needs is Jennings in Arthur out...

[Abe]

Believe me the only change this team needs is Jennings in Arthur out...

You would have to get rid of Smith as well. Rumour is that Smith was the reason Jennings was fired. They players thought they were too good to drink water from a tap and had to have Energade instead etc.

[AirWolf]

That's it, game over. Nel should be promoted a place or 2 up the order, his batting has definitely improved. It was fun to watch Gayle ***** bricks for a while there while Nel and Steyn had their fun. :D

Lol :D I did catch a bit of that.

Those two produced our 2nd highest partnership which does say a lot about our openers :rolleyes:

[sand_man]

You would have to get rid of Smith as well. Rumour is that Smith was the reason Jennings was fired. They players thought they were too good to drink water from a tap and had to have Energade instead etc.
Yeah I heard that too. How did a youngster at the time and essentially the new boy on the block become so influential, captain or not, surely the coaching appointment isn't his call??!!

[Abe]

Those two produced our 2nd highest partnership which does say a lot about our openers :rolleyes:

If I remember correctly, SA have had 1 opening partnership over 50 in the last 10 innings.

[Luke7777]

:D

Now that's a lot more colour friendly :)

But then there is no spinner :PDumini (Offspin), Bodi(Left arm wrist) & Smith :)

[feo]

Does Smith even qualify as a spinner? :o Duminy and Bodi are good choices though.

[The Cosmos]

One thing is for sure.... Oz is going to kick out butts bigtime next year...again....

[mercurial]

what about Harris? he performed really well and was suddenly just out of the picture.

[feo]

One thing is for sure.... Oz is going to kick out butts bigtime next year...again....
Well if we don't sort out our top order batting and introduce some proper spin bowlers (Harris is OK I guess) then I guess we deserve a good beat down. This whole spinner BS has been going on for years and SA cricket just hasn't produced a good spinner. Also, one of the previous posts said that we've only had ONE opening partnership of over 50 in the last 10 matches, that's pretty amazing. :eek: Gilchrist and Hayden almost always make a good start for the Aussies. :(

[AirWolf]

Well if we don't sort out our top order batting and introduce some proper spin bowlers (Harris is OK I guess) then I guess we deserve a good beat down. This whole spinner BS has been going on for years and SA cricket just hasn't produced a good spinner. Also, one of the previous posts said that we've only had ONE opening partnership of over 50 in the last 10 matches, that's pretty amazing. :eek: Gilchrist and Hayden almost always make a good start for the Aussies. :(

Yeah, I've always admired their opening partnership even in the ODIs. SA seriously need to sort out that area of our game.

[sox63]

Well if we don't sort out our top order batting and introduce some proper spin bowlers (Harris is OK I guess) then I guess we deserve a good beat down. This whole spinner BS has been going on for years and SA cricket just hasn't produced a good spinner. Also, one of the previous posts said that we've only had ONE opening partnership of over 50 in the last 10 matches, that's pretty amazing. :eek: Gilchrist and Hayden almost always make a good start for the Aussies. :(

We do need a spinner in our team, and I think Harris is more than OK, he took 4 2nd innings wickets in that WI collapse. Lets not forget it was not a pitch condusive to spin.

As for the opening partnership, Smith and Gibbs have historically been our best openers, in both forms of the game. I guess I'm more of the thinking that form is temporary and class is permament. AB just does not have the discipline to be opening, he just seems intent to play a shot at balls he should not be playing at. Not someone you need to take the shine of the new ball.

My pick would be Smith and Kallis opening, with Amla at three and Gibbs at four. Kallis is by far our best batsman, and seeing as though he he comes in at like the 2nd/3rd over regularly these days, might as well let him open.

Our bowling is a bit confusing, Steyn looks like a bowler who can have good days and bad ones. We need more consistency, so replace him with Pollock, and keep Nel and Ntini, their attitude and aproach to their bowling is reason enough to keep them in.

Boucher just needs to play, there is no two ways about it, he is the BEST wicky in the world, and the last thing we need is dropped catches behind the wicket from someone who is going to replace him.

Now where that job application for SA cricket selectors.:)

[feo]

We do need a spinner in our team, and I think Harris is more than OK, he took 4 2nd innings wickets in that WI collapse. Lets not forget it was not a pitch condusive to spin.

Well he's the kinda bowler that has 1 good day, 10 OK days and a few bad days thrown in here and there. Also, his action is so flat and I can see batsmen getting used to his bowling pretty quick. Orthodox spin is not what we need. I know asking for a SA version of Murali is over the top but hey, that's what we need., someone that can mix it up and spin it both ways and disguise the spin well, all we have are spinners that just give us more of the same (MOTS™).


As for the opening partnership, Smith and Gibbs have historically been our best openers, in both forms of the game. I guess I'm more of the thinking that form is temporary and class is permament. AB just does not have the discipline to be opening, he just seems intent to play a shot at balls he should not be playing at. Not someone you need to take the shine of the new ball.

Well, Smith always seems to be struggling for form but yeah I'd also keep him as an opener and bump Kallis up to open with him.


My pick would be Smith and Kallis opening, with Amla at three and Gibbs at four. Kallis is by far our best batsman, and seeing as though he he comes in at like the 2nd/3rd over regularly these days, might as well let him open.

+1


Our bowling is a bit confusing, Steyn looks like a bowler who can have good days and bad ones. We need more consistency, so replace him with Pollock, and keep Nel and Ntini, their attitude and aproach to their bowling is reason enough to keep them in.

I wouldn't take Steyn out, he swings the ball and has his slower ball as well (although he seems to overuse it nowadays). I'd replace Ntini with Polly until Ntini learns how to add some variety to his attack.


Boucher just needs to play, there is no two ways about it, he is the BEST wicky in the world, and the last thing we need is dropped catches behind the wicket from someone who is going to replace him.

+1


Now where that job application for SA cricket selectors.:)

:D

[mercurial]

the only difference between SA and the Windies in the first test, is that the Windies batted well in their first innings.

[stepper]

The same 14 picked for the PE test(includes J. Botha, M. Morkel & SM Pollock) won't be changed, so someone has to go to make way for Pollock. I don't care whether its Smith himself or any other batsman cos they ain't scoring.

[AirWolf]

The same 14 picked for the PE test(includes J. Botha, M. Morkel & SM Pollock) won't be changed, so someone has to go to make way for Pollock. I don't care whether its Smith himself or any other batsman cos they ain't scoring.

You mean Kaap Stad;)

[stepper]

I meant the squad picked for PE test is going to be the same as the one in CT, no additional people called up.

[stepper]

I meant the squad picked for PE test is going to be the same as the one in CT, no additional people called up.

[milomak]

McKenzie has been added to the squad. Most likely a replacement for Gibbs.

[sand_man]

McKenzie has been added to the squad. Most likely a replacement for Gibbs.
ooooh... interesting...

[chiskop]

Very good article in the Business Day today about why Gibbs should be dropped and various options that we have. (Unfortunately article doesn't seem to be on the BD website). The article suggested that Gibbs' continued failings at the top of the order put too much pressure on Kallis and Amla by bringing them in too early.

If I was a selector, which I'm not, this is what I'd suggest:

1. Drop Gibbs. He will be back, but for now he needs to catch a wake-up.
2. Unsure about what to do about AB, maybe move him back to 3?
3. Bring in Mackenzie.
4. Replace Nel/Ntini with Pollock. Yeah, he's not what he used to be but he is still one of our most reliable bowlers and a reasonable batsman, and means that our tail is just a little shorter.

[AirWolf]

ooooh... interesting...

And not colour coded too :D.

[milomak]

it's a very good article that chiskop.

something else that i think will have to be considered fairly shortly is boucher's role in the team. if AB continues in the batting form he is in, we will have to ask ourselves the question of whether boucher should be dropped. thus possibly bring polly in or some other all rounder.

it's probably too early to think of it as a serious option, but i think soon it will.

[chiskop]

Yeah, we need to persevere with AB. His batting is good and getting better. Boucher is the best wicketkeeper we've ever had, but it is inevitable that he will be injured/rested at some stage and will eventually retire. I'd like to have AB there as a replacement whenever that happens.

[sand_man]

4. Replace Nel/Ntini with Pollock. Yeah, he's not what he used to be but he is still one of our most reliable bowlers and a reasonable batsman, and means that our tail is just a little shorter.

I would replace Harris with Pollock, Ntini is all class, can't drop him, he's been our most effective strike bowler for a number of seasons now and to drop him over his current lack of form is ludicrous. Nel brings a bit of niggle to what is otherwise a very tame and pc protea team so I would keep him too. Harris is the one I would drop simply because he is not world class and therefore not worthy, his fielding is average too. sorry Paul.

I agree Gibbs for now should be dropped from the test team but not OD side.

So the team could look like this:
Smith, Kallis, Mckenzie, AB, Amla, Pollock, Boucher, Ntini, Nel, Steyn, Zondeki or Prince for Zondeki if we go for extra batsman.

[Abe]

Ntini is all class, can't drop him, he's been our most effective strike bowler for a number of seasons now and to drop him over his current lack of form is ludicrous.

Ntini Stats, last 12 months:

Matches: 9
Batting Avg: 4.80
Wickets: 35 at an average of 28.28

Thats not good for a premier strike bowler. For the last 12 months Polly has a batting average of 36.75 and a bowling average of 22. He has only played in 4 matches but even if you look at the last 9 matches he has averaged 38.41 with the bat and 26.06 with the ball. While the bowling stats are off his best, there is something really screwy with a selection comittee that drops Polly and keeps Ntini with those stats.

[sand_man]

Ntini Stats, last 12 months:

Matches: 9
Batting Avg: 4.80
Wickets: 35 at an average of 28.28

Thats not good for a premier strike bowler. For the last 12 months Polly has a batting average of 36.75 and a bowling average of 22. He has only played in 4 matches but even if you look at the last 9 matches he has averaged 38.41 with the bat and 26.06 with the ball. While the bowling stats are off his best, there is something really screwy with a selection comittee that drops Polly and keeps Ntini with those stats.

Yeah quite right, can't argue with those stats...

[milomak]

28.28 certainly much better than Nel's 47.38 in the same period. How screwy is that.

[Abe]

28.28 certainly much better than Nel's 47.38 in the same period. How screwy is that.

Definitely not good enough although his batting is getting on :)

Perhaps someone can explain to me how you can drop the number 3 rankerd bowler in the world who is also the second best all rounder in the world (Polly) and who has the figures I listed above and yet hold on to Nel with his stats.

I am still not sure about Amla either. He has so much talent but aside from his two hundreds (he was dropped on 0 on the way to one of them), he continuiously under performs. The commentators seem to be saying how both he and Kallis have been carrying the side for the last year but the problem is that he has only had two decent scores.

[LancelotSA]

I would replace Harris with Pollock, Ntini is all class, can't drop him, he's been our most effective strike bowler for a number of seasons now and to drop him over his current lack of form is ludicrous. Nel brings a bit of niggle to what is otherwise a very tame and pc protea team so I would keep him too. Harris is the one I would drop simply because he is not world class and therefore not worthy, his fielding is average too. sorry Paul.

I agree Gibbs for now should be dropped from the test team but not OD side.

So the team could look like this:
Smith, Kallis, Mckenzie, AB, Amla, Pollock, Boucher, Ntini, Nel, Steyn, Zondeki or Prince for Zondeki if we go for extra batsman.


Sorry but not sure I agree with your verdict on Harris... here are his stats:

M R HS BAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St
9 86 46 7.16 0 0 29 5/73 23.86 1 5 0

And his bowling in the last test match:
O M R W Econ
30 9 69 1 2.30
15 5 35 4 2.23

How can you drop him now? And we do need variation. You saw this when Chris Gayle was climbing into our quicks!

EDIT : Damn battling with formatting but I'm sure you get the idea!

[stepper]

Its sad(shame really) when genuine out and out bowlers are now judged on their batting abilities because of the pathetic top order. Get proper batsmen and leave the bowlers to do their bowling.

[AirWolf]

Its sad(shame really) when genuine out and out bowlers are now judged on their batting abilities because of the pathetic top order. Get proper batsmen and leave the bowlers to do their bowling.

The point others are trying to make is that now with the new selection (x number of batsmen and y number of bowlers) when the opposition get through out top order there isn't much resistance in the tail. Previously when we fielded more all rounders we had a much longer batting line up which provided a plan b in the event that our top order didn't perform. That in my opinion is why India got thumped as well - more out and out bowlers as you call them compared to Australia.

[chiskop]

From cricinfo:

WI won the toss and will bat.

SA = And South Africa drop Gibbs in place of Neil McKenzie: Smith, McKenzie, Amla, Kallis, Prince, AB de Villiers, Boucher, Harris, Nel, Steyn, Ntini.


I hope that taking Gibbs out of the top order (for now) will put less pressure on number 3 and down, and I hope that Gibbs can get his stuff together and will soon be performing back in the team.

Still not convinced about leaving Pollock out. I would have incuded him at the expense of Prince/Ntini or Nel, but that's just me.

[mercurial]

glad to see the man i was rooting for is in - Harris. was he in the 1st test? i haven't watched any cricket lately.

live scorecard (http://content-rsa.cricinfo.com/wivzimsa/engine/current/match/298802.html)

[chiskop]

Yeah, Harris took five wickets in the first test.

[mercurial]

Yeah, Harris took five wickets in the first test.

:o

[mercurial]

Windies 20/1. Ganga out. Edged off Steyn to Boucher.

[mercurial]

West Indies 73/2 (15.5 ov)
West Indies won the toss and elected to bat first

Day 1 - Session 1 West Indies RR 4.48
Last 10 ovs 58/1 RR 5.80

Morton latest to go - c Ntini b Kallis 23

[native]

is South Africa bowling badly or are the windies batting fast?

[mercurial]

is South Africa bowling badly or are the windies batting fast?


Runs Balls 4's 6's Strike Rate
*C Gayle 45 47 2 2 97.77



Bowling O M R W Econ
D Steyn 6 1 19 1 3.16 (1nb)
M Ntini 6 0 32 0 5.33
A Nel 4 1 18 0 4.50
J Kallis 1.4 0 2 1 1.20

seems like Gayle is after Nel and Ntini

[milomak]

77/3. Good start by us

[chiskop]

CH Gayle c McKenzie b Nel 46 (96m 49b 2x4 2x6) SR: 93.87

Wi: 77/3 22.1 overs

:)

[milomak]

was a great catch by mckenzie as well

[mercurial]

woah that's a big wicket guys!

[sand_man]

Sorry but not sure I agree with your verdict on Harris... here are his stats:

M R HS BAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St
9 86 46 7.16 0 0 29 5/73 23.86 1 5 0

And his bowling in the last test match:
O M R W Econ
30 9 69 1 2.30
15 5 35 4 2.23

How can you drop him now? And we do need variation. You saw this when Chris Gayle was climbing into our quicks!


Look his stats are not bad but it's early days yet. If I had to choose between Ntini, Pollock or Harris which is essentially what we talking about here then I would let Harris go without doubt!! Ntini has proven his worth and he is bound to come good soon as is the case with Pollock and Pollock can bat. Harris is really weak in the field and has already put down a catch and leaked a few runs too which for me nullifies to an extent his effectiveness as a spin bowler.

[AirWolf]

SA looking good today - caught a bit towards the end :)

Windies finished off at 240/8.

Steyn's wickets were pretty good:D.

[sand_man]

Yeah Steyn's really exciting to watch. We under pressure to win this test yes, lose this one and we might loose our coach and captain..

[feo]

Yeah Steyn's really exciting to watch. We under pressure to win this test yes, loose this one and heads might roll...
It's "lose" buddy..:)

loose - britney spears
lose - SA in the 1st test match

[sand_man]

It's "lose" buddy..:)

loose - britney spears
lose - SA in the 1st test match
:p

[AirWolf]

Yeah Steyn's really exciting to watch. We under pressure to win this test yes, lose this one and we might loose our coach and captain..

Would that really be a bad thing?:D

[stefan9]

Really poor outfield at Newlands. Didn't they have the same problem at the previous test there?? This really isn't good enough for an international venue to have such a poor outfield.

Good job by the boys today.

[killadoob]

Yeah Steyn's really exciting to watch. We under pressure to win this test yes, lose this one and we might loose our coach and captain..

i hope we get mauled then

[Abe]

i hope we get mauled then

I find myself in the strange position where I am supporting WI. Something drastic has to happen to get rid of those two.

[mercurial]

It's "lose" buddy..:)

loose - britney spears
lose - SA in the 1st test match

lol

[sand_man]

I find myself in the strange position where I am supporting WI. Something drastic has to happen to get rid of those two.

yeah I got to agree, although I still think Smithie is worthwhile addition to the team but he should never have been made captain so early on in his career but it's too late now to demote him and I wouldn't drop him, Arthur must go though...

[mercurial]

West Indies 243
South Africa 44/0 (15.2 ov)
South Africa trail by 199 runs with 10 wickets remaining in the 1st innings

Day 2 - Session 1 South Africa RR 2.90
Last 10 ovs 30/0 RR 3.00

Min overs remaining 69.5

this is our chance to make 400+ and possibly only bat once.

[Abe]

yeah I got to agree, although I still think Smithie is worthwhile addition to the team but he should never have been made captain so early on in his career but it's too late now to demote him and I wouldn't drop him, Arthur must go though...

Maybe getting rid of Arthur may help but Smithy is a dictator in the side, always pushing to get rid of those that may compete with him. Perhaps a new coach can sort out this God complex but I doubt it.

[sand_man]

Maybe getting rid of Arthur may help but Smithy is a dictator in the side, always pushing to get rid of those that may compete with him. Perhaps a new coach can sort out this God complex but I doubt it.

Well a better start today but the experiment was only partially successful. Heard the guys talking about batting averages in 2007, Kallis 86, Amla 44, Prince 40, Boucher 30, Gibbs 26, Smith 26. Hell why on earth did Smith opt for Arthur over Ray? It could cost him his career. Ray would have coached the flaws out of Graeme's technique surely?

[mercurial]

Hell why on earth did Smith opt for Arthur over Ray?



cos Ray nailed them when it was necessary. mickey mouse sits with a stupid smirk on his face. Ray sorted them out and that's why Smith wanted him out, cos he doesn't like to be told. just another ego story.

[Abe]

cos Ray nailed them when it was necessary. mickey mouse sits with a stupid smirk on his face. Ray sorted them out and that's why Smith wanted him out, cos he doesn't like to be told. just another ego story.

Yep, thats what happens when you keep kissing a youngsters ar.e. Eventually they start to believe the bull and don't want to listen to anyone. How many times do you see Smith talking to the press when micky mouse should be talking. Smith should have done his time as a rookie/understudy.

The crazy thing is that we in SA fire coaches for winning big tourny's and keep them on when they lose them. How many big tourny's have the Arthur/Smith combination won?

[native]

Kallis - Amla out

123/4

[mercurial]

i think this next/current partnership will determine how much SA makes. ATM, i'm leaning towards the same amount as the Windies total more or less.

[mccrack]

Meh ....

There goes the 400+ hopes unless AB and Ash come good.

[milomak]

At 100 odd for 2, i was hoping we could at the very least make 350. Thought 450 should be what we ideally target. No doubt now we will be all out still something like 50 in arrears. You know that's what is going to happen.

[sand_man]

How many big tourny's have the Arthur/Smith combination won?
0

[Abe]

Meh ....

There goes the 400+ hopes unless AB and Ash come good.

Problem with Ash is that he only seems to put a big one together of late when we don't need it. I would have felt a bit happier with Polly down the order but right now all WI needs are 2 wickets and they are into our very long tail. I can't see those two wickets putting together more then 60/70 runs. As milomak said, looks like a 50 runs in arrears right now.

[sand_man]

The crazy thing is that we in SA fire coaches for winning big tourny's and keep them on when they lose them.
Aint that the truth, Mallet, White, Jennings etc etc Gees what the f*&( is wrong with our sports administrators?

[chiskop]

At 100 odd for 2, i was hoping we could at the very least make 350. Thought 450 should be what we ideally target. No doubt now we will be all out still something like 50 in arrears. You know that's what is going to happen.

Once again, I have this feeling of mounting dis pear.

[milomak]

eh what big tournament did Jennings win?

[mercurial]

Aint that the truth, Mallet, White, Jennings etc etc Gees what the f*&( is wrong with our sports administrators?

they're *****ing bored that's what. as bored as Real Madrid's management.

[Abe]

eh what big tournament did Jennings win?

While he did not win any tournaments as coach (he did not compete in any) he really turned the SA side around. When he started with the side, they were in disarray. We seem to fire winning coaches as he was fired after beating WI.

http://www.weekendpost.co.za/main/2005/05/28/sport/sk01_28052005.htm

"The latest coach to bite the dust, Ray Jennings, can count himself a little unlucky. He took over the team when they were in disarray. Initially under his reign the side lost to India away and then to England during the Test series at home.

After that things picked up though. South Africa beat England in a one-day series, then demolished Zimbabwe and then toured the West Indies emphatically winning both the Test and the one-day series."

[sand_man]

eh what big tournament did Jennings win?

http://www.cricinfo.com/database/ARCHIVE/2006-07/OTHERS/HKG-6S/MEDIA/MEDIA_061020.html


Actually the Hong Kong sixes in 2006.

SA has won it twice in 15 years, previously in 1995 where Jonty Rhodes was player of the tournament.

[mccrack]

132/5 - AB Gone

[sand_man]

they're *****ing bored that's what. as bored as Real Madrid's management.

aint that the truth!!! damn I long for a return of Ray, I honestly believe he can lead SA to greatness... sorry too harp on about it but I honestly think CSA has missed a trick here...

[sand_man]

132/5 - AB Gone

:mad::mad::(:(

[milomak]

well played prince and boucher. 218/5

[stepper]

well played prince and boucher. 218/5

Definately, we needed that partnership. 40 more runs from this two, we allright with Windies two bowlers short.

[sand_man]

Definately, we needed that partnership. 40 more runs from this two, we allright with Windies two bowlers short.

agreed, good performance but it seems we only able to roll the opposition when they fielding less than a full strength side, Pakistan had Shaoib out for most of the series and NZ had Bond, Fleming and Jacob out too...

[Abe]

well played prince and boucher. 218/5

Yep, they put in a lot of necessary hard graft. Prince only 12 runs off his highest score in the last 8 test matches so he is desparately in need of a big score.

[AirWolf]

At 100 odd for 2, i was hoping we could at the very least make 350. Thought 450 should be what we ideally target. No doubt now we will be all out still something like 50 in arrears. You know that's what is going to happen.

We passed that target:D:D:D

[stepper]

agreed, good performance but it seems we only able to roll the opposition when they fielding less than a full strength side, Pakistan had Shaoib out for most of the series and NZ had Bond, Fleming and Jacob out too...

Maybe its the luck we need. Hopefully it happens in England and Australia later in the year. Bangladesh in Feb/March should be a breeze (we hope so).

[sand_man]

Maybe its the luck we need. Hopefully it happens in England and Australia later in the year. Bangladesh in Feb/March should be a breeze (we hope so).

Yeah the last time we played Bangladesh they humiliated us at the world cup of all places!! We also playing India, that's going to be tough too, hell, it's a year from hell but hopefully not for us fans...

We got an away tour to India in March!!! OMG!!

[chiskop]

Yeah, but a month ago we would've said WI in Jan will be a breeze. :eek:

[feo]

Complacency is our middle name in cricket. ;)

[sand_man]

Yeah, but a month ago we would've said WI in Jan will be a breeze. :eek:

Agreed... Either Clive Loyds influence has been significant or we going backwards, I suspect it's a bit of both...

[sand_man]

Complacency is our middle name in cricket. ;)
Not sure it's complacency but certainly there may be a lack of work ethic under Mickey Mouse, so in a way complacency but looking at this team it looks like we not training hard enough.

The late Hansie trained like demon cause he was of the belief that if you want to be better than the opposition you have to work and train harder then the opposition and I think this is true of all things in life. I don't think Mickey gets the concept...

[chiskop]

Agreed... Either Clive Loyds influence has been significant or we going backwards, I suspect it's a bit of both...

I think its both - WI has performed far better than we expected and we have performed far worse.

[feo]

Well the public hardly ever sees a full training session so I guess it's anyones guess how much or how little we train before a match. All I know is that Nel has been working VERY hard on his batting. :D Go Nella.

I think we just expected WI to be a complete walkover. Not having beating a test playing nation away from home in 8 years is a terrible stat for WI so I can see why SA would've written them off before the first test but our guys really need to adopt the (I can't believe I'm saying this) Aussie way of approaching cricket, they NEVER drop their standards according to who their opposition is is, they ALWAYS field a full strength side and go out all guns blazing, that is NOT the case for us. Oh and you're right about the whole Mickey Mouse factor as well.

[mercurial]

spot on feo.

[milomak]

We passed that target:D:D:D

we might even eke out a respectable lead :eek:

[chiskop]

Yeah, was thinking about this yesterday. Things are not as bad as they'd seemed - we'll have a 1st innings lead, and what more could you ask for?

Except that we should've got ahead of their total with less effort than it has taken us.

[mercurial]

check this -> Australia 463 & 13-0. India 532.

SA 260/6. Boucher out for 59. Prince has 72.

live scorecard (http://content-rsa.cricinfo.com/wivzimsa/engine/current/match/298802.html)

[milomak]

might have spoken too early :o

[mccrack]

might have spoken too early :o

Clearly ... lol ...

U jinxed us ;)

Bouch and Harris out.

[mercurial]

don't worry guys, Nel is still there :D

[milomak]

what an utterly stupid run to take :mad:

[stepper]

The plot was lost earlier, when Nel was playing defensively for Prince near 100. Nel should have just played his normal game.

[sand_man]

hope Dale's going to be able to bowl, he's got a grade 1 tear, hamstring...

[sand_man]

SA underestimating WI was a mistake yes as was our underestimating Bangladesh in the world cup. I know I been battering him long and hard so why stop now? Surely the coach must analyze the opposition and insure we competitive against good opposition and clinically ruthless against weak opposition?

[milomak]

hope Dale's going to be able to bowl, he's got a grade 1 tear, hamstring...

if you have a runner i doubt bowling is an option

[mercurial]

321 not bad.

[Mr TB]

321 not bad.

India 532.

Really!

[mercurial]

India 532.

Really!

lol i meant with respect to the low score that Windies made :D

[Mr TB]

lol i meant with respect to the low score that Windies made :D

I meant jumping the Aussies..,

[mercurial]

okie dokes :D

[milomak]

of course the rule goes that if you are injured going into a match you cannot use a runner. but surely even if injured during a match you have to show that a player is injured for him to have a runner?

[mercurial]

of course the rule goes that if you are injured going into a match you cannot use a runner. but surely even if injured during a match you have to show that a player is injured for him to have a runner?

the umpires usually look at the player in question and sometimes have a word with him AFAIK, but they hardly ever deny a batsman a runner.

[milomak]

injure them into submission is the way to go

[Abe]

injure them into submission is the way to go

lol - But you have to admit, Gayle is awesome when he is in full flight. 185 is a testing target.

[sand_man]

lol - But you have to admit, Gayle is awesome when he is in full flight. 185 is a testing target.

Agreed, what character shown by Gayle and Steyn for that matter. Gees it's going to be a tough last session today, intriguing stuff!!!

Going to be very interesting to see who opens today and who the openers will be in the next test. Sure Gibbs will be back. And if Dale can't play then Pollock, nothing wrong!!!

[native]

/me have found a reason to celebrate tonight

[killadoob]

185 a tough target

i think not

[native]

Going to be very interesting to see who opens today and who the openers will be in the next test. Sure Gibbs will be back. And if Dale can't play then Pollock, nothing wrong!!!

how about opening with Boeta D?

[native]

Smith is gone

Raul Lewis have had 1 wicket coming to this match with an average of over 300.
Now he has taken 3 wickets in this match

[Mr TB]

Smith is gone

Raul Lewis have had 1 wicket coming to this match with an average of over 300.
Now he has taken 3 wickets in this match

Well done SA 1-1, much better!

Good reason to celebrate!

[feo]

Well done Smithy, very good innings.

[The_Techie]

/me celebrates :D

[killadoob]

guys u know this is the west indies?

we are celebrating beating one of worst cricket nations at the moment

u know your not good if you celebrate when beating west indies zimbabwe bangies and kenya

[feo]

guys u know this is the west indies?

we are celebrating beating one of worst cricket nations at the moment

u know your not good if you celebrate when beating west indies zimbabwe bangies and kenya
Well "one of worst cricket nations at the moment" beat us in the 1st test, remember?

[sand_man]

how about opening with Boeta D?
Yeah it appears Boeta may get the nod. Thought AB did a reasonable job of opening today. Nice aggressive start to the innings by AB and Graeme reminiscent of how the Aussies start every test innings!!

I wouldn't mind Boeta, I reckon he's got to be one of the unluckiest and most under rated players locally. He never does anything wrong yet never maintains a position in the side...

[sand_man]

Well "one of worst cricket nations at the moment" beat us in the 1st test, remember?
Yeah it's pretty damn important that we won this test. Had we lost the series by the 2nd test I reckon there would have been major panic in the ranks.

The Windies aren't a great side, honestly, they rely on Gale and Chanderpaul and when those 2 fail they in big trouble. SA really needs to be putting them away and we have done so in this 2nd test but the 1st wasn't impressive and we must put them to the sword in Durbs...

[Picard]

Yeah it appears Boeta may get the nod. Thought AB did a reasonable job of opening today. Nice aggressive start to the innings by AB and Graeme reminiscent of how the Aussies start every test innings!!

I wouldn't mind Boeta, I reckon he's got to be one of the unluckiest and most under rated players locally. He never does anything wrong yet never maintains a position in the side...

Boeta doesn't look the part. With his small chin he doesn't instill the same psychological impact that another menacing looking face does in a sport that relies heavily of posturing and intimidation.

[Mr TB]

guys u know this is the west indies?

we are celebrating beating one of worst cricket nations at the moment

u know your not good if you celebrate when beating west indies zimbabwe bangies and kenya

OUPA SUURKNOL it is not about the win it is about celebrating... life itself is celebration

[killadoob]

Well "one of worst cricket nations at the moment" beat us in the 1st test, remember?

thats my point feo

beating the west indies should be a given not something we celebrate

[feo]

thats my point feo

beating the west indies should be a given not something we celebrate
A given? That's a bit strong I'd say but you are right, they've gone through an 8 year slump and we really should be able to beat them 9 times out of 10. I guess the first test was the unlucky one. ;)

[AirWolf]

Well done SA:).

Good innings by Biff:D.

[sand_man]

Boeta doesn't look the part. With his small chin he doesn't instill the same psychological impact that another menacing looking face does in a sport that relies heavily of posturing and intimidation.
Interesting observation and I thought talent was the only perquisite to be a good cricketer

I think fast bowlers maybe fit your player profile but batsman depend on guile, finesse and skill more than physical presence

[JK8]

Boeta doesn't look the part. With his small chin he doesn't instill the same psychological impact that another menacing looking face does in a sport that relies heavily of posturing and intimidation.

Like Mohamed Ashraful and Imran Nazir and Tendulkar and Sehwag??

All little guys like Boeta.

[chiskop]

Yeah, but how big are their chins? :D

[LancelotSA]

Some news on the thought processes for the team for the 3rd test....

South Africa v West Indies, 3rd Test, Durban

Injured McKenzie to make way for Gibbs

Cricinfo staff

January 5, 2008

After being dropped from the team for the second Test against West Indies, Herschelle Gibbs is expected to return to the South African playing XI after his replacement Neil McKenzie was ruled out of the third Test.

Gibbs, whose poor form saw him being benched, is likely to open the batting alongside Graeme Smith. McKenzie, who had returned to the Test team after three-and-a-half years, tore his right calf muscle during the match - which South Africa won by seven wickets - and was unable to bat in South Africa's second innings.

Meanwhile, Monde Zondeki has been drafted into the squad as cover for Dale Steyn, who strained his right hamstring during the course of the match. Steyn, though, bowled in both innings of the match, picking up eight wickets as South Africa levelled the series.

Zondeki, rewarded for his impressive performance in domestic cricket this season, had taken eight wickets to help South Africa A beat the West Indians in a tour game.

The series-deciding third Test begins on January 10 at Kingsmead in Durban.

South Africa squad: Graeme Smith (capt), Herschelle Gibbs, Hashim Amla, Jacques Kallis, Ashwell Prince, AB de Villiers, Mark Boucher (wk), Paul Harris, Andre Nel, Dale Steyn, Makhaya Ntini, Shaun Pollock, Monde Zondeki.



It's a pity, McKenzie looked good in the second test and has been scoring plenty domestically. Let's just hope the dropping helped Gibbs catch a wake up!

Monde in for Steyn would not be a bad thing, although I am a huge fan of Dale. In the warm up game against the WI these were Zondeki's figures

Inn O M R W Econ
1st 16 2 39 5 2.43
2nd 17 3 61 3 3.58

...and Chanderpaul was one of those wickets in both innings!!

[JK8]

I hope its a good 3rd test!!

Like the India vs Aus!!! Thats what a test match should be like IMO:p

[chiskop]

I hope its a good 3rd test!!

Like the India vs Aus!!! Thats what a test match should be like IMO:p

I hear Bucknor's free this weekend. Perhaps we could ask him to come here and ensure the same kind of spirit in this match? :D

[mccrack]

Pathetic ....

So Gibbs get's dropped for 1 test and then bring him back?

He hasn't scored a century for 3yrs and is still in the national squad.

Hershie needs to go play provincial cricket and prove that he is back in form and worthy of his test place.

[LancelotSA]

I hope its a good 3rd test!!

Like the India vs Aus!!! Thats what a test match should be like IMO:p

We are dealing with two far more polite teams here...

As for my view of the Aussies.... rather no comment! They get away with a lot of cr_p... suppose that's what happens when you are the big boy on the playground.

[Highflyer_GP]

Pathetic ....

So Gibbs get's dropped for 1 test and then bring him back?

He hasn't scored a century for 3yrs and is still in the national squad.

Hershie needs to go play provincial cricket and prove that he is back in form.

Yeah I was wondering the same thing, the man magically regained his form in one week. Diepenaar should have replaced Mckenzie.

[LancelotSA]

Pathetic ....

So Gibbs get's dropped for 1 test and then bring him back?

He hasn't scored a century for 3yrs and is still in the national squad.

Hershie needs to go play provincial cricket and prove that he is back in form and worthy of his test place.

Yeah, he hasn't had a good year.... below are his career stats vs his last 12 months stats....

Career ave 42.05
12 mnth ave 27.75

[sand_man]

Pathetic ....

So Gibbs get's dropped for 1 test and then bring him back?

He hasn't scored a century for 3yrs and is still in the national squad.

Hershie needs to go play provincial cricket and prove that he is back in form.

Yeah I reckon Boeta can consider himself a little unlucky. Seems he isn't in with the right crowd IE. Smith and Mickey Mouse...

I would have been very tempted to open with AB and Smith, seems the 2 of them thrived off each others positive energy in the 2ND innings in the 2ND test. If the 2 of them get off to a positive start they can win the match for SA in the 1ST session by a.) seeing off the new ball b.) scoring at around 5 an over c.) demoralizing the fielding side but alternatively if they go cheaply that advantage is out the window...

Gibbs is a very lucky fellow to get another bite so soon after being dropped. Let's see how he handles the pressure!!!

[mccrack]

Yeah I was wondering the same thing, the man magically regained his form in one week. Diepenaar should have replaced Mckenzie.

Actually ....

I really dont understand,

I thought ok, maybe it's a quota thing, but why not slip Duminy in and move AB up the order.

Why is Gibbs being persisted with ?

I just dont get it.

[sand_man]

We are dealing with two far more polite teams here...

As for my view of the Aussies.... rather no comment! They get away with a lot of cr_p... suppose that's what happens when you are the big boy on the playground.
Agreed, the mo%^&$&ers are kings of sledge but can't take it when they on the receiving end...

[sand_man]

Why is Gibbs being persisted with ?

Probably for his experience and brilliant fielding but yeah if he doesn't score at least 50 within the next 2 innings he's a gonner for sure...

[JK8]

Im kinda hoping the Windies arent down and out because of the loss and they really bring it to the Porteas.

The summer tours in SA is always a walk over it was nice seeing some effort for a change coupled with the suspence of not knowing whats gonna happen.

[mccrack]

Yeah I reckon Boeta can consider himself a little unlucky. Seems he isn't in with the right crowd IE. Smith and Mickey Mouse...

I would have been very tempted to open with AB and Smith, seems the 2 of them thrived off each others positive energy in the 2ND innings in the 2ND test. If the 2 of them get off to a positive start they can win the match for SA in the 1ST session by a.) seeing off the new ball b.) scoring at around 5 an over c.) demoralizing the fielding side but alternatively if they go cheaply that advantage is out the window...

Gibbs is a very lucky fellow to get another bite so soon after being dropped. Let's see how he handles the pressure!!!

I haven't seen Dipps play for a while to be honest, but always thought he was more suited to Tests than the run he got in the ODI's.

I just think he is a bit too slow for my liking, that's Dipps, Amla, Kallis, Prince ... they're not going to do wonders to the Run Rate, admittedly it's Test matches but you dont wanna go at a snails pace either.

IMO

[Highflyer_GP]

The summer tours in SA is always a walk over it was nice seeing some effort for a change coupled with the suspence of not knowing whats gonna happen.

Not sure if I should be stoned for agreeing with JK8 :eek: