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Thread: National diploma vs degree

  1. #1
    Grandmaster gboy's Avatar
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    Default National diploma vs degree

    hi guys i am in my final year of the National diploma Information Technology though NMMU

    I have heard some people say a Degree is better, but hear arguments from both sides, but i would like to get the professional opinion of the forum, on who you would employ and the pay difference, and is the natdip accepted overseas, and by company's.

    I also know that the BTECH degree is equivalent to a honors.

  2. #2

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    hi gboy,

    ok first the disclaimer, i'm a BTech graduate so might be somewhat biased as most degree holders are regardless of their origin, i also have almost 5 years experience as a professional software developer and am a sun certified java monkey

    personally i would lean towards employing a tech graduate as uni grads in my opinion and experience have often lost the plot in their focus on theory. not all of them mind you, a uni grad with the ability to APPLY his/her knowledge is a rare but worthy find, on average a tech grad is more likely to have said ability, but again might lack the theory, so a techie with the theory firmly in his/her grasp is an equally rare but worthy find

    oh and i graduated JUST before techs got called institutes or universities of technology so please excuse the ancient terms tech and university, but i think you know what i mean ... so who would i employ and pay difference ... i would employ EITHER, just as my company actually does, i would lean toward tech grads though, pay difference? none, over here the initial salary might be influenced by a master's, but master's degrees in IT are in my opinion worhtless, as for B/honours degrees, they all get paid the same from the start and from there on its on the job performance and experience that sets you apart, the company will never look at your degree again ;-)

    i would recommend sticking it out till you have BTech though, it makes the whole tech vs uni debate slightly easier, uni grads will never understand the different structure i guess lol

    now is ND and/or BTech accepted overseas? you bet, i can pass australia's assessment test with no hassle just like other degrees, and in europe the concept of a Hochschule is very well known (a.k.a. a Technikon), in the US they also quite familiar with the concept, the almighty MIT is in fact an ex-Technikon, is the ND accepted by companies? well it better be else i dunno why i'm in my job LOL, and btw i work for what many consider one of the biggest/best developer shops in this country, they have strict and high standards, and they have no problem with my BTech ;-)

    having said that i work with many uni grads and am impressed at how well many of them apply their knowledge, we learn from each other constantly
    Last edited by NarrowBandFtw; 01-02-2008 at 10:03 AM. Reason: damn typos lol

  3. #3

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    How long does it take to get a national diploma?

    If you want to emigrate, they look at years of full-time study as well as the degree/diploma you have. So if it takes 2 years to get the diploma, no-one will look at it the same way as a 4-year honours degree from university...

  4. #4
    Grandmaster gboy's Avatar
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    Default

    hi,

    thanks, i really apprichate the feedback.

    the natdip in software development that i am doing is 3 years and a BTECH is another year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gboy View Post
    hi,

    thanks, i really apprichate the feedback.

    the natdip in software development that i am doing is 3 years and a BTECH is another year.
    I would advice u, (in fact I command u) to do ur BTech while u still have the chance
    I got my NatDip in 2002/3 @ TUT (formerly know as Pretoria Technikon) and it's been 5 yrs I've been wanting to do my BTech.
    Once u start working, u'll be so "busy" u won't have the time to study.

    I'm attending evening classes, not so enjoyable I tell u. I assume u r about 20-23 yrs old, not married, probably stay with parents, little/no responsibility at all.

    So I'm gonna say it again. Don't think about it - Just do it. If u can, u can do ur Masters.
    i7 2600 | Asus P8H67-M (Rev B3) | Corsair TX650 | CM Scout | Mushkin Silverline BBR3 1333 -2X4GB | DeepCool Tiger Shark | 1TB Samsung | LG DVD-Writer

  6. #6
    Grandmaster gboy's Avatar
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    i think the term "Diploma" has been raped by all these flyby night institutions. and that annoys me incredibly, i mean we work our asses off in our courses for 3 -4 years, and in least my experience you tell the man in the street you are studding for a national diploma, they think you are at the same level as someone who studies a 6 month "diploma" from abc campus.

    I did my reserch before entering this program so i know they are on the same level.

    I just had a major argument yesterday with a "pro degree " person" who is convinced that i have wasted my time as it is just a diploma. lets just say, he has a diffrent outlook on life now

  7. #7
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    Default

    Here's a thread on the same subject that you may find interesting.
    http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...chnicon&page=2

    In the engineering field I would chose a University Graduate that has practical skills and can apply his formal education.

    I have the old "T" course technical diploma.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by gboy View Post
    I just had a major argument yesterday with a "pro degree " person" who is convinced that i have wasted my time as it is just a diploma. lets just say, he has a diffrent outlook on life now
    i use to have that argument alot lol ... but when my old Cape Tech went CPUT and went all to hell i stopped defending it, until i realised the uni's are going backwards as fast so the level between them is the same it seems

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
    Here's a thread on the same subject that you may find interesting.
    http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...chnicon&page=2

    In the engineering field I would chose a University Graduate that has practical skills and can apply his formal education.

    I have the old "T" course technical diploma.
    this is a very important bit i left out of my original response, in the case of IT everything i said applies BUT the debate takes on different shapes and sizes in other fields e.g. i know for a fact techies struggle to get their CA because auditors are quite biased (justified or not?) toward offering clerkships to uni grads rather ... same i think goes for medical and engineering degrees ... but for IT, i'd stick to BTech grads more often than not, whilst being completely willing to accept there are uni grads who know their stuff and can apply it in IT too

  10. #10

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    I'm sorry, but before this thread started, I've never even heard of BTech!

    Everyone knows what a university is and what it offers, though.

    Just a thought - use it, don't use it...

  11. #11

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    Frankie, apologies. I didn't see your reply in the other thread. I was at Claremont tech in '80. We got caught up in the whole coloured schools riots, teargas going this way and that and Pink Floyds "we don't need no education" was a no-no. I didn't go to the Lansdowne hotel. Far to fresh faced and innocent at the time.

    After I'd finished the T3 I was working for SAPO (Telkom if you youngsters must know) and I was stuffed if I was going to stay there doing the same sh%t for years, so I did the T4 at night, told SAPO I wanted a more interesting job and they refused to move me. So I quit and joined the National Accelerator Centre. Suddenly I was surrounded by guys with masters and doctorates and to be taken seriously you had to have at least a masters degree, so I carried on studying at night. NAC gave me the subject matter for the thesis (design of critical systems for particle therapy systems if you must know) which was really great.

    Then I wanted to do my doctorate. Brakes came on. I'm still pissed about this today. In a nutshell, Cape Tech didn't want to offer a D.Tech at the time and UCT wouldn't admit me at the time. Five years later it all changed. I had a great thesis lined up too (NN control of particle beams in isocentric gantries).

  12. #12
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    i have a IT engineering and marketing Diploma,u get a job easily but are somewhat limited if you want to expand(apply for a higher ranking job)
    so im currently studies a degree in retail management partime..
    Spoke to a owner at pick and pay and he told me il get a job easily enough but if i want a successful future i must complete my degree.

    go for the btech

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by TiredOfWaiting View Post
    I'm sorry, but before this thread started, I've never even heard of BTech!

    Everyone knows what a university is and what it offers, though.

    Just a thought - use it, don't use it...
    well thankfully the western world knows about it, hell go and google it and see, the perception in South Africa is and has always been very warped, and in some cases, very wrong indeed

    if you want i can also point you to our national accrediting organization which determines the level of qualifications in ZA for all institutes, universities and tech and everyone else, it is a boring read but the short of it is BTech : IT is officially the academic EQUAL of BSc (Hons) Comp Sci

    but many are unaware of such matters, i am happy knowing i made the right choice and if i had to do it again i would make the same choice, to me that is all that matters

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by NarrowBandFtw View Post
    well thankfully the western world knows about it, hell go and google it and see, the perception in South Africa is and has always been very warped, and in some cases, very wrong indeed

    if you want i can also point you to our national accrediting organization which determines the level of qualifications in ZA for all institutes, universities and tech and everyone else, it is a boring read but the short of it is BTech : IT is officially the academic EQUAL of BSc (Hons) Comp Sci

    but many are unaware of such matters, i am happy knowing i made the right choice and if i had to do it again i would make the same choice, to me that is all that matters
    Quick question, did you guys do any math in the BTech course? And I mean SERIOUS mathematics: Analysis, algebra, advanced calculus...

    That forms the basis of any BSc course, including B.Sc. Computer Science.

  15. #15

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    Can't speak for the Btech but up to M.Dip.Tech does the whole shooting match, calculus, DE's through to analtical geometry. Stokes, Greene, convolution, LaPlace, Fourier and (more applied than pure) Maxwells equations in both the vector and differential forms.
    Last edited by TooFastTim; 01-02-2008 at 10:43 AM.

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