Miracles:
- Posting in Philosophical Debates section but my question isn't really philosophical more on religion -
Is there a biblical reason given for the lack of miracles in our time as opposed to the plethora that seem to occur in biblical times?
Do other religious books/writing contain accounts of miracles?
Lets define a written account of a miracle......I can name thousands of comics and novels containing written accounts of 'miracles'Originally Posted by Waaib
a2
Guidewire Gosu = Go Slow!
Of course they do. All religions have tales of miracles(AFAIK).
It's sorta like one of the requirements isn't it?
That's quite a good question so I'll give it a shot.
Firstly there are miracles still in this age such as healings. I've heard of people who have both experienced and delivered healing in a miraculous sense, heard stories of babies being healed overnight of chronic illnesses (by reputable people). The NT records instances of such miracles, and church history is full of such accounts.
However you're also quite right that the nature of miracles in the NT age is very different from those in the OT. We don't have talking donkeys, parting seas, prolonged days, etc. If anything the NT tends to play down the significance of miracles.
For instance in connection with tongue speaking Paul said:.But in the church I would rather speakª five¹ words with¹ my mind, that I might instruct others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
Related to healing he said:When referring to Timothy, rather than heal his condition, he advised:Concerning this I entreated the Lord threeª times that it might depart from me. And He has said to me, My grace¹ª is sufficient for you, for My power¹ª is perfected in weakness.ªEven Jesus refused to perform some kinds of miracles, saying that they were a sign of unbelief:No longer drink water only, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent illnessesAnd Paul confirmed this word:Butª He answered and said to them, An evilª and adulterous generation¹ seeks after a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet.When Jesus was tempted by Satan three times to perform a miracle, on all three times He refused. When He was being judged, He said that God could call down angels, but did not. When He was on the cross, they said that He saved others but couldn't save HimselfFor indeed Jews require signs¹ª and Greeks seek wisdom, But we preachª Christ¹ crucified,ª to Jews a stumblingª block, and to Gentiles foolishness,ª
So there is plenty of Biblical justification for why we don't see miracles today in the same way. In a sense God is hidden - Isaiah said 'You are a God who hides Himself'. Why has God changed in the way He operates? It's a complicated answer, but basically the age changed through Christ's accomplished death and so forth. God works differently today than He did.
You were watching until a stone was cut out without hands
A single reputable reference?
Not so - see thread http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=104324
Perpetuating heresay and fraud does not make it fact.
I acknowledge your beliefs and respect your faith - but faith isn't proof.
I'm not about to get pulled into this one. Believe whatever you want.
You were watching until a stone was cut out without hands
Yeah it would be terrible if we all had to justify the claims we make.
Note how they are all "unseen" miracles, i.e. those involving diseases that cannot be seen with the naked eye. How about conjuring up a missing arm in front of a live audience...perhaps film it too? No trick photography please!
~ Those who think they know it all are an annoyance to those of us that do ~
@ cerebus - thanks for your post but I think I don't get or am missing the answer. Is there a biblical reason why we don't see them anymore?
The ' give back an arm' argument is an old one, but on consideration..
One single instance of this happening would have a shattering effect on skeptics, atheists etc. No one could deny that there was some divine intervention.
But until then...
The point is that even Jesus refused to perform a miracle when given the opportunity - this written by people who were apparently eager to prove Jesus' divine status - for good reason. The extent of man's unbelief is such that nothing less than, as daveza requested, a healed amputation (or more) would satisfy them. If I gave examples of other cases, then you would say well where's the documentation, or it's just hearsay, or whatever you could say to wriggle out of it. Neither I nor God are interested in that kind of proof. I can cite cases that I've heard of, even if I gave one that I had seen personally I doubt it would have much impact.
Now waaib - you're right, what I showed you were verses that indicated that in the NT we shouldn't expect to see miracles in the same why, but I haven't given a reason for why that should be.
The reason is that in the OT times, God's position in relation to man was outward. There were offerings, rituals, places of worship, God's visible presence, miracles, strict regulations etc. Man worshiped God, but always at a distance removed.
Now when Christ came, He brought a great change in man's relationship to God. He was incarnated as the tabernacle of God, having all the fullness of God inwardly. Through death and resurrection, He was transfigured to become the life giving Spirit (1 Cor 15:45), still God but somehow processed to be able to enter into man.
So for NT believers, our relationship with God is inward. We have no need for miracles as signs because we have God's own presence indwelling us as the Spirit, supplying, regulating and transforming us to be the same as Christ. God's purpose is not fulfilled by miracles but by this process of regeneration, rebirth into man. So miracles just don't have a lot of value to us today.
You were watching until a stone was cut out without hands
I am constantly amazed at the mental gymnastics people will perform to escape logic and reason when it comes to religion.
I guess human creativity knows few bounds.
icyrus - I admit that I haven't seen anyone healed - I just haven't gone looking for one. But I have heard of them, as I said from reputable people. I gave an example on the first post. So if those were true events, they would constitute a genuine case of healing, at least as far as I'm concerned. So who's performing mental gymnastics? I've heard of them so I believe in them, quite simple.
All you can say is that you want a bigger miracle. If I offered you that, you'd want a bigger one. I'm just not interested in providing you with that.
You were watching until a stone was cut out without hands
No, you heard of a case were someone supposedly got healed in an unknown way and attributed it to god where others would look for the real reason.
This is why "miracle healing" tends to only happen in certain cases.
A leg or arm spontaneously growing back would be taken more seriously.
I didn't realize you were in a position to offer such things.
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